It's CUE. Not que. Unless its queue. Its never que though.

(716 Posts)
EleanorGiftbasket Fri 07-Dec-12 14:31:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ParsingFancy Fri 07-Dec-12 14:33:09

Que?

sarahseashell Fri 07-Dec-12 14:33:20

unless espanol in which case is que grin

yes people should of been cueing up to agree with you

saccrofolium Fri 07-Dec-12 14:33:49

I can't read your post, it's very feint. grin

KatyJ26 Fri 07-Dec-12 14:33:56

Glad you've got that out of your system ... FWIW, I agree completely!

grovel Fri 07-Dec-12 14:34:02

I used to live in Kew.

Welovecouscous Fri 07-Dec-12 14:34:29

Is it an autoque?

absentmindeddooooodles Fri 07-Dec-12 14:34:34

i think im guilty of this ooooops

ReindeerHooves Fri 07-Dec-12 14:35:35

I wanted to come over all Spanish with the que's and dodgy Manuel impressions

But I've been beaten to it <sulk>

GrimAndHumourlessAndEven Fri 07-Dec-12 14:36:04

oh lolo at Parsing, v good

Sigh, Eleanor, I fear our battle to turn back the tide of should of/should have, bought/brought, lend/borrow is, Cnut-like, failing

[eyore face]

ReindeerHooves Fri 07-Dec-12 14:36:35

Should of been a bit faster <goes to back of que>

GrimAndHumourlessAndEven Fri 07-Dec-12 14:36:39

ROAR at feint

MerryKissMyArse Fri 07-Dec-12 14:36:54

I agree.

and while we are at it, stop say then when you mean than.

Smeggnog Fri 07-Dec-12 14:37:17

grin

I always read it as Que too, Manuel-styleeeeeee.

BahSaidPaschaHumbug Fri 07-Dec-12 14:37:32
EleanorGiftbasket Fri 07-Dec-12 14:39:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Netguru Fri 07-Dec-12 14:41:56

Que (tower), a freestanding gate tower characteristic of the tomb architectural ensembles during China's Han Dynasty

LRDtheFeministDude Fri 07-Dec-12 14:43:36

I don't care, it doesn't effect me.

EleanorGiftbasket Fri 07-Dec-12 14:44:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NoKnidForABed Fri 07-Dec-12 14:46:16

<glares at LRD>

ReindeerHooves Fri 07-Dec-12 14:47:35

Good of you to come forward and tell us pacifically what your problem is Eleanor

LRDtheFeministDude Fri 07-Dec-12 14:47:50

smile

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Fri 07-Dec-12 14:48:17

YA SO NBU!

Isn't que also a small French word put in phrases like "Est-ce que...."? (meaning unclear)

Lougle Fri 07-Dec-12 14:49:55

I am in shock. I thought 'Eleanor is making a big fuss about nothing...', so I did an advanced search.

Que great shock wink - over 500 threads with 'que' - at least half of them not channeling Manuel!

coraltoes Fri 07-Dec-12 14:50:21

Give up, it is a loosing battles

Jins Fri 07-Dec-12 14:51:09

It's so common now I almost have to check that I'm right

Welovecouscous Fri 07-Dec-12 14:56:55

Eleanor, are you not overtly happy?

DoingItOntheRoofTopWithSanta Fri 07-Dec-12 14:59:22

You are all wrong.

it is a line and you stand in it

meddie Fri 07-Dec-12 14:59:33

I yam totally with yew on this won, I can't stand bad spelling. It's not hard two sea a mistake as a spell chick err will high lights err oars.

GrimAndHumourlessAndEven Fri 07-Dec-12 14:59:55

I will staunch your tears (subtle, this one)

TrillsCarolsOutOfTune Fri 07-Dec-12 15:00:26

Que?

MadBusLady Fri 07-Dec-12 15:01:09

I'm sorry, you'll have to be more pacific.

<cackle>

ParsingFancy Fri 07-Dec-12 15:02:23

No, no, Doing, if it's a line you have to tow it...

Floggingmolly Fri 07-Dec-12 15:02:32

And it's totally over used anyway.

MadBusLady Fri 07-Dec-12 15:02:39

Oh bother, someone's done that one. Oh well, I bought it on myself.

TeeElfOnTeeShelf Fri 07-Dec-12 15:03:01

I agree. It's dicusting.

grin

Viviennemary Fri 07-Dec-12 15:03:15

What a querious post.

GrimAndHumourlessAndEven Fri 07-Dec-12 15:03:42

GUFFAW at you lot

GrimAndHumourlessAndEven Fri 07-Dec-12 15:04:44

tow the line, I always imagine someone lugging a cable over their shoulder world's strongest man stylee grin

MrsHoarder Fri 07-Dec-12 15:05:48

YABU

This should be in Pedants' Corner

coraltoes Fri 07-Dec-12 15:06:23

Tis is the sort of behaviour mumsnet towers needs to rain in.

MadBusLady Fri 07-Dec-12 15:08:03

If they did the site would be desserted.

MadBusLady Fri 07-Dec-12 15:08:51

(Ooh, that sounds quite nice...)

Jojobells1986 Fri 07-Dec-12 15:09:09

I received a text from my DH while I was reading this informing me that he would like a 'hawiyan' pizza tonight. Good timing DH!

BrigitBigKnickers Fri 07-Dec-12 15:13:10

Here here. I couldn't of said it better myself!

KenLeeeeeee Fri 07-Dec-12 15:15:07

YANBU!

NoKnidForABed Fri 07-Dec-12 15:17:47

Your all loosing it.

FivesGoldNorks Fri 07-Dec-12 15:19:46

I am going to print out all these helpful threads and put them in my draw

helpyourself Fri 07-Dec-12 15:20:17

I can't believe I'm the first! You're all wrong.
It's
¿Qué?

biscuit

chris481 Fri 07-Dec-12 15:21:45

I thought cue was only something used in Snooker, or similar games.

Going forward's I propose that this thread be titled

J'accues
<<geddit>>

FivesGoldNorks Fri 07-Dec-12 15:26:28

chris, or in a theatre, which I imagine is where the general use has come from

IWantAnotherBaby Fri 07-Dec-12 15:27:25

Waiting with baited breath for the next one...

IWantAnotherBaby Fri 07-Dec-12 15:27:53

Keep a tight reign on your pedantry.

EleanorGiftbasket Fri 07-Dec-12 15:32:25

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

valiumredhead Fri 07-Dec-12 15:42:59

Or chest of draws grin

MerryKissMyArse Fri 07-Dec-12 15:59:23

Someone said 'one foul swoop' on here the other day.

I judged a bit.

GreatCongas Fri 07-Dec-12 16:04:14

A fowl swoop is what my chickens do when I put treats out.

one foul swoop

Is that when a low flying duck craps on your head?

NoKnidForABed Fri 07-Dec-12 16:18:02

Oh stop putting yourselfs on a pedal stool, you pendants!

EleanorGiftbasket Fri 07-Dec-12 16:53:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dawndonna Fri 07-Dec-12 17:04:12

Whilst we're at it, the 'why' after 'hence' is completely fucking redundant. Stop it!

sarahseashell Fri 07-Dec-12 17:43:57

dawndonna you need to chillax hence why I find the pedant's so annoying
(que more pedantry I expect)

Dawndonna Fri 07-Dec-12 18:49:40

grin Sarah I'm just of to clear up the brain explosion!

Dawndonna Fri 07-Dec-12 18:49:55

arghhh! off

waterlego Fri 07-Dec-12 18:53:13

OP, you're being mischievious smile

MadSleighLady Fri 07-Dec-12 18:54:18

Oh, I don't think she's doing it purposefully.

picnicbasketcase Fri 07-Dec-12 18:56:22

It's defiantly cue. I'm in complete agreeance.

BinksToEnlightenment Fri 07-Dec-12 18:57:35

This seems to have caused an arguement

victoriaplum01 Fri 07-Dec-12 18:57:39

Can I pretend I'm on Facebook for a minute and just click 'Like' to this thread?

My favourite thing (not really a MN special) is when people offer a 'chester draws' for sale... grin

Mrsjay Fri 07-Dec-12 18:57:57

I am awful at spelling that stupid word i am probably a bit thick but if i can't remember i say Q on forums blush

BigBabyBoots Fri 07-Dec-12 19:01:24

picnic saw a fine example of that on Facebook earlier:

"I defiantly got out of the wrong side of bed this morning!"

Giggle.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Fri 07-Dec-12 19:08:57

You're just making the OP into an escape goat.

GreatCongas Fri 07-Dec-12 19:13:35

My youngest defiantly gets out of bed all the time

mummybare Fri 07-Dec-12 19:26:56

What's the law that says if you correct someone's spelling/grammar on the Internet, it is inevitable that you will make a typo?

<whispers> There's an apostrophe missing in the thread title. <runs away>

Lougle Fri 07-Dec-12 19:44:44

This is absolutely crazy. I've never seen someone use 'que' before. Now, tonight, I've read two threads where someone, in all seriousness, has used the word 'que' to mean 'cue'....I'm in the twilight zone.

AnnoyingOrange Fri 07-Dec-12 19:44:58

Two apostrophes

EleanorGiftbasket Fri 07-Dec-12 19:50:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ilovesooty Fri 07-Dec-12 21:12:55

YANBU...definately grin

neddle Fri 07-Dec-12 21:42:52

Ha! I raise you 'wont' as in 'I wont to annoy you by spelling want phonetically.'

I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and assuming it's a typo really.

thingamajig Fri 07-Dec-12 21:50:44

Hold the front page! Kate's been wretching again. (I bet she feels retched)

AndFanjoWasHisNameO Fri 07-Dec-12 22:35:18

Eleanor, I most certainly love you for this thread smile mwah

RandallPinkFloyd Fri 07-Dec-12 23:00:34

Aww, a lot of personal favourites on here!

I love Chester Draws and Defiantly is particularly good.

I'm guilty of many typos myself but I honestly thought que was a trendy new abbreviation that I hadn't caught up with yet blush

3b1g Fri 07-Dec-12 23:03:17

I agree with the OP. I think it's discusting. grin

3b1g Fri 07-Dec-12 23:07:39

DS1 defiantly gets out of the wrong side of the bed every morning.

Definately.
Seperately.
Would of.
GRRR.

Bit too pissed to make them into a funny sentence.

Lots of you are getting you're knickers on a twist tonight

<pathetic aim at joining in>

Feint made me giggle though.....

Gusthetheatrecat Sat 08-Dec-12 09:40:47

Can I join in? I promise to be discrete...

MerryKissMyArse Sat 08-Dec-12 09:56:25

If you want to bag a dining table on ebay with little bidding competition, put 'dinning table' into the search engine. There are loads of them. Some people seem to think that it must be spelt dinning because there are two Ns in dinner.

MrsGeologist Sat 08-Dec-12 10:00:48

Life is made that little bit sweeter if you read 'queue' as 'kweewee'.

PuffPants Sat 08-Dec-12 10:10:55

Has it already been said? Lose and loose? How can people get through their whole lives not knowing the difference? Don't get me started on your and you're...grrr.

And the past participle of to text is texted, not text!

You're all being rediculous!

Smeggnog Sat 08-Dec-12 10:21:38

This thread is keeping me on tenderhooks <obscure>

I know it's not the most obvious of words, but if you're unsure why not look it up? It comes from weaving, when fabric was stretched taut on 'tenters' by hooks, hence tenterhooks. Nothing to do with butchers. The etymology of some words is fascinating [geekface]

Smeggnog Sat 08-Dec-12 10:26:25

I've just seen 'wide birth' on another thread. Ouch!

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sat 08-Dec-12 10:28:01

I love this thread.

I can't stand the cue que queue madness either.

And it's not pedantry. It's standards

saccrofolium Sat 08-Dec-12 10:45:47

Us mummy's should know how to rite.

<eyes stream blood>

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sat 08-Dec-12 11:06:15

My all time favourite mumsnet thicko moment was on a very serious thread about gender selection or something. Someone made a very reasoned post but in the middle of it she said 'uneffical'. I could sense the rest of the thread looking at this howler in a state of anguish and mirth but nobody said anything, presumably due to the seriousness of the thread. But I felt the mental equivalrent of hopping up and down and saying 'looook, looook'

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sat 08-Dec-12 11:09:44

Oh and another one where a londoner mumsnetter ranted on about her local council, but spelled it cancel (cos that's how she says it)

EleanorGiftbasket Sat 08-Dec-12 11:11:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MadSleighLady Sat 08-Dec-12 11:15:13

I saw a really impressive "you're/your" on a sandwich board outside a cafe once. They needed "your" and put "you'r". Special kind of genius, that.

BinksToEnlightenment Sat 08-Dec-12 11:20:13

I resemble that remark

Dawndonna Sat 08-Dec-12 11:23:59

People on threads who have too much to bare tend to worry me a little. Or those that can't bare it, I know it's a little chilly at the moment, but one wonders what other reasons there may be!

ginslinger Sat 08-Dec-12 11:25:48

I brought a dictionary so I can get it right.

Jojobells1986 Sat 08-Dec-12 11:30:23

Under the first mini heading:
"A damn would be built at the upper reservoir..."

Oh dear, BBC!

MrsMushroom Sat 08-Dec-12 11:33:49

I thought it was queue.... Standing in the queue.

Not standing in the cue! A cue is something else altogether!

vladthedisorganised Sat 08-Dec-12 11:34:11

Im finding this thread very effecting. A shame we ca'nt be more affective in teaching basic English when we do'nt have a solid bases to work from.

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sat 08-Dec-12 11:38:09

Lol at damn

EleanorGiftbasket Sat 08-Dec-12 11:40:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sat 08-Dec-12 12:04:30

I am so glad you remember the cancel one eleanor - I have mentioned that thread a couple of times before nobody has ever remembered it. The cancel woman got REALLY pissed off iirc and didn't see that what she was saying was wrong.

I just pissed myself saying 'cancel' out loud to myself in my best sarf London accent whilst reading the thread.

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 12:15:42

Your all mean bastards and I'm realizing (Oxford -ize ending, cf. The Great MN Poncery Debate 2009, 2010, subtopic 'why do we care about Greek verbs', MN 2012) how much innocent amusement I must provide to getorf on a daily basis.

The ones that annoy me irrationally is 'whom' or 'I' used when it should be 'who' or 'me'. Grrrrr.

I love 'foul swoop' and 'pedal stool'. I think there will be learned entries in the OED in 100 years time saying how these wonderful evocative phrases came about and enriched our language. Mind you they'll probably be referencing [making reference to! FFS! It's so fucking annoying!] MN Chat rather than Shakespeare, so possibly civilization won't be at its highest peak.

EleanorGiftbasket Sat 08-Dec-12 12:20:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 12:27:07

It's the same as 'me'.

He gave it to me.
To whom did he give it?

It was made for me
The woman for whom it was made.

etc etc.

But yes, I think 'who' has become standard usage. It's just the bizarre use of it in the wrong fucking place that annoys me.

Why are these things so irritating? They shouldn't be.

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 12:28:11

Oh!

And that reminds me, this is an oral one, but I know someone who says 'ekt-setera'. It's not an accent thing. It's just how she thinks it's said. I don't know why but it's like nails on a blackboard.

EleanorGiftbasket Sat 08-Dec-12 12:32:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SkivingAgain Sat 08-Dec-12 12:40:45

While we're at it, can I add woman/women - it irritates me when people refer to one woman as a women <<feels better for that >>

AndFanjoWasHisNameO Sat 08-Dec-12 12:43:33

Ooh ooh and ect rather than etc Grrrrr

Gusthetheatrecat Sat 08-Dec-12 12:55:23

Oh oh oh - and 'free reign' makes me want to punch people! ::should get a life icon::
It's not a monarch related metaphor. It's a riding metaphor. To give 'free rein' : to let the horse run more freely rather than reigning it in. This is EVERYWHERE so I advise not getting wound up by it. Tis only a route to bitter unhappiness and frustration....
(suddenly wondering, though ... I've never seen this explanation written down... I suppose it's possible I'm actually wrong? ::pedantry head explosion:smile

MrsMushroom Sat 08-Dec-12 13:07:48

Skiving As a child of about ten I was sent to the newsagent to get WOMAN magazine for my Mum. I couldn't see it on the shelf and asked "Have you any WOMEN magazines?" which thought must be correct!

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sat 08-Dec-12 13:09:47

grin at innocent amusement.

I don't know what you're on abaht LRD - you never seem to come across as Mrs Malaprop to me. grin

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 13:21:47

Only because I didn't change my name.

TrillsCarolsOutOfTune Sat 08-Dec-12 13:26:07

Is that cancel as in "cancel house" or "counsel house"?

TrillsCarolsOutOfTune Sat 08-Dec-12 13:26:49

Is there any time when the correct or incorrect use of who/whom will change the meaning of a sentence?

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sat 08-Dec-12 13:27:09

Cancel house.

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 13:29:48

confused

Well, every time, trills. Because they mean different things.

Clarabumps Sat 08-Dec-12 13:49:17

My red mist moments are...

Having a lye in...
To Forfil your destiny..
i'm so boared..
I'm popping in to boots's the chemist..
and my personal favourite when I was working in a bar.."Can I have three Smirnoff Ice's"

Clarabumps Sat 08-Dec-12 13:51:24

And on my niece's Fb page... "Whoe's going out?"
WTF????

FellatioNelson Sat 08-Dec-12 13:53:05

oh god yes. ect. Are these people seriously that dim that they have never noticed, in all these years of reading 'etc' that it is not ect?

My friend called fromage frais formage frais. It annoys me.

nickelbabylyinginamanger Sat 08-Dec-12 13:53:29

cue - a weaponused to shove balls around a snooker, billiard or pool table.
cue - a prompt ("where's my cue?")
cue - a way of starting a sentence meaning "at that point..." ("cue me going 'wha'?'")
queue - two or more people standing in a line waiting for something.
Kew - an area of London (is that right, as in Kew Gardens, that's London, isn't it?)
Q - the whizz in James Bond who makes all the gadgets
q - a letter of the English alphabet, always followed by u in a word.

FellatioNelson Sat 08-Dec-12 13:53:36

calls, not called.

nickelbabylyinginamanger Sat 08-Dec-12 13:59:33

LRD - please explain - I very rarely use whom these days because I can never remember which is correct.
(i did used to know, I'm sure I did)

PessaryPam Sat 08-Dec-12 14:06:40

I am just popping out momentarily. Oh look I'm back now!

Nancy66 Sat 08-Dec-12 14:07:15

You know what you've done don't you? You have all formed a CLICK

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 14:07:40

I think it's fine to just use who, isn't it? I think it's become pretty much standard.

'whom' is for when something is done to someone or for someone. It's like 'him' or 'me'.

FivesGoldNorks Sat 08-Dec-12 14:09:07

Well I have to admit to never using whom, but

The woman, whom I sat on...
and
The woman, who I sat on

the second one sounds like you broke off mid way to ask a poorly phrased question

FivesGoldNorks Sat 08-Dec-12 14:10:11

do not ask why that was the first sentence that came to mind...

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 14:13:24

It's 'on whom I say'. wink

Oh dear lord, kill me now.

PPPop Sat 08-Dec-12 14:22:01

I'm not phased by it.

almapudden Sat 08-Dec-12 14:32:26

"Send the documents to myself."

All estate agents, everywhere.

ginslinger Sat 08-Dec-12 14:39:23

I'm a bit in awe of the cancel house.

nickelbabylyinginamanger Sat 08-Dec-12 14:40:31

sat wink

nickelbabylyinginamanger Sat 08-Dec-12 14:42:39

yes, when i use that form - without the hanging preposition (a properly positioned preposition), i use whom.

"on whom I sat"
"to whom I was speaking"
etc.

but i admit I allow those prepositions to hang when I'm talking informally, or typing/writing informally ,because I don't want people to think I'm a knob. (and i hate it every time I do it!)

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 14:44:41

I accept my inherent knobbish nature.

nickelbabylyinginamanger Sat 08-Dec-12 14:45:01

oooh, oooh, ooh, on the HMRC website - there's a question about for whom you're filling in the form, and the options in the drop down box are:
"yourself" or "someone else"

This looks bad on me, now, but I mean they're not saying "are you filling this form in for yourself or someone else" but they do mean "you" - and I can't remember the exact sentence, but it was wrong.

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 14:46:22

My DB has recently taken to say, 'well, for myself, I think ...' or 'I, myself, think ...'.

It's perfectly correct AFAIK, it just gives me rage and makes me think he sounds like a wanker.

3b1g Sat 08-Dec-12 15:05:09

DS3 had a teacher in Y1 who used "myself" whenever he meant "me" and "yourself" whenever he meant "you". It drove me quite batty and he's lucky myself didn't punch himself by the end of the year.

TrillsCarolsOutOfTune Sat 08-Dec-12 15:08:15

I'd like some examples please, because I really can't think of any.

A sentence where the correct word is "whom".

Where if I used the word "who" instead, you would think that I meant something different. Where the meaning of the sentence would be changed.

Not just where you would think Silly Trills, you should have used "whom" there.

cumfy Sat 08-Dec-12 15:08:59

Que sera sera.

MrsToddsShortcut Sat 08-Dec-12 15:10:35

It's completely unasseptable.

This is an actual Uniqlo advert that I saw in The Guardian last year. It made my teeth itch as it just seemed all wrong somehow. Can anyone confirm this, or am I just itching over nothing?

Uniqlo is the elements of style
Uniqlo is a toolbox for living
Uniqlo is clothes that suit your values
Uniqlo is how the future dresses
Uniqlo is beauty in hyperpracticality
Uniqlo is clothing in the absolute

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sat 08-Dec-12 15:12:24

Whom is the dative case, mostly out of use in English <knowledgeable>

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 15:16:18

It's accusative, too, and ablative.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sat 08-Dec-12 15:17:29

Ablative? Not heard that one! There goes my proud showing off sad

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 15:19:33

trills - oh, I get you. Yes, I don't think it's often unintelligible. Most of these examples aren't, are they? Like the I/me ones. Council/cancel might be!

I think the reason it annoys me (and I do know it's illogical) is that it comes across as if the person thinks they're being more precise about grammar than you, and they're not.

I read something with the line, 'The critic, whom wrote ...' - the marker ended up correcting it and having to explain to a snotty student that she does know how to use 'whom', but this isn't the situation.

That's why IMO 'who' is mostly a better bet, because it might be technically incorrect but will never look pretentious.

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 15:20:26

ariel - can we not join forces and show off togther?

I am not sure if ablative actually exists. But it sounds good.

I will ask DH. Being foreign he likely knows.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sat 08-Dec-12 15:21:31

Well my spellchecker recognised it so it must be a thing.

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 15:21:53

DH says in English dative and ablative are subsumed into the accusative. blush

grin

FivesGoldNorks Sat 08-Dec-12 15:22:33

"Add message | Report | Message poster LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 14:13:24
It's 'on whom I say'. "

<silently hands over pedantry badge>
<cries>

Your all such a bunch of itches yous are

conantg Sat 08-Dec-12 15:23:00

I have been stood in this queue for ages.

FivesGoldNorks Sat 08-Dec-12 15:24:36

Oh that reminds me
And I may have to do some local explanation - is "yous/yous lot" common slang or just north eastern?

Anyway there's a radio station which introduces "the news that matters to you" and each time I think they are going to say "the news that matters to yous"
Because it rhymes. Grammatical disaster averted so far, but I live in hope grin

merrymouse Sat 08-Dec-12 15:25:49

I think whom can sound overly formal, even when it is used correctly.

On the other hand que is just a mis-spelling.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sat 08-Dec-12 15:26:42

Ah well, I was coming at it from the German angle you see. Dem der dem etc grin

I just thought with the m, you know.... <trails off lamely>

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 15:26:45

five - see, now I know my childhood was all worth it.

My mother (who is an erratic driver when angry) used to bellow '^WHOM^' at us when we misspoke sitting in the back of the car, and she'd sort of accidentally stamp on the accelerator when she did it.

You'd remember too if you'd had that. shock

FivesGoldNorks Sat 08-Dec-12 15:26:46

be sat instead then

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 15:28:04

I can't do German. I did a year and whoosh, straight over my head.

FWIW, I think 'yous' is dialect and an archaic plural, isn't it? Like 'y'all' (which I love) in the south of the US?

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sat 08-Dec-12 15:28:42

LRD I have a feeling our mother's would have much in common.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sat 08-Dec-12 15:29:40

Oh my GOD! THE SHAME! Look at that apostrophe! Damn phone....

FivesGoldNorks Sat 08-Dec-12 15:32:10

Ariel <ahem> everyone has been doing it deliberately. You'd have got away with it if you hadn't called attention to it yourself grin

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sat 08-Dec-12 15:34:13

<weeps with embarrassment>

I know they would have noticed. This is a pedants' thread.

But it's very sweet of you to say.

garlicbaubles Sat 08-Dec-12 15:42:53

May I just run a bugbear past my fellow pedants? Or pedant's [evil]

Segue. This is pronounced "seeg" isn't it? I'm sure there are better words for it anyway, but every DJ now seems to pronounce it "segway". I thought a Segway was a motorised scooter confused

If you could offer myself wise council, I'll be greatful and will try not to loose the plot.

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 15:43:26

I had a rogue apostrophe in an earlier post.

I kept quiet.

AND IT'S NOT FUCKING 'QUITE', YOU ANNOYING NEIGHBOUR TWUNT.

Ahem.

Ooh, that feels better. smile

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 15:44:42

garlic - I thought it was segway. confused

garlicbaubles Sat 08-Dec-12 15:46:36

Does everyone else get annoyed by Bel saying "nucular" on The Hour? I've just about got used to it in the real world, but am damn sure a BBC Head Of News in the 1950s wouldn't have said it.

<steams pedantically>
<or pedanticly, to go with publically>

garlicbaubles Sat 08-Dec-12 15:50:31

LRD - I should of looked it up!

"The two words are homophones, both of which are pronounced /&#712;s&#603;gwe&#618;/"

I stand corrected ... on a motorised scooter grin

garlicbaubles Sat 08-Dec-12 15:51:12

Oops, MN didn't like the phonics! "segway" it is.

conantg Sat 08-Dec-12 15:53:39

Segue - pronounced segway. Not seeg or see-gyoo.

SHoHoHodan Sat 08-Dec-12 15:53:46

I feel obliged to point out that the expression is toe the line , not tow the line.

That is all.

TrillsCarolsOutOfTune Sat 08-Dec-12 15:59:53

I like "Y'all" as well.

garlicbaubles Sat 08-Dec-12 16:01:40

You need to get some councilling, Trills.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sat 08-Dec-12 16:07:59

I am loathe to agree with you, but I do.

ParsingFancy Sat 08-Dec-12 16:12:31

Trills would be a shoe-in as a councillor.

TrillsCarolsOutOfTune Sat 08-Dec-12 16:16:29

Can I be a canceller instead?

JourneyThroughLife Sat 08-Dec-12 16:17:08

What an interesting thread....
My pet hates are:
effect/affect
who/whom
loth/loathe
Ignorance over using the apostrophe
Pronounciation of words like "drawing" as "draw - ring" - the BBC does it a lot
People who pronounce "says" as "ses"
My deputy at work who writes me little notes saying things like "He has hurt his self"
...probably I need to get a life....!

FivesGoldNorks Sat 08-Dec-12 16:22:36

secuterry

nickelbabylyinginamanger Sat 08-Dec-12 16:30:30

garlic - it's pronounced seg-way.
sorry.

kickassangel Sat 08-Dec-12 16:37:05

but why is it seg-way?
Can I present
catalogue, antique, and picturesque
for consideration.

If we start saying segway, then isn't an old thing an anteek-way?

The world is going crazy!

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 08-Dec-12 16:52:24

Yes, why is it segue?

(At a guess, is it to do with when the words entered the language?)

I know someone who talks about things being 'picture askew'. I quite like that.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sat 08-Dec-12 17:22:26

I've never even heard the word.

Which makes me quite thankful actually. One less thing to worry about.

shriekingnora Sat 08-Dec-12 17:46:58

FivesGoldNorks - I see your secuterry and raise you seckertree. As heard on the BBC news all the fucking time

I would like to go through this thread with a fine tooth-comb and find all the mistakes.

Jojobells1986 Sat 08-Dec-12 21:11:21

My DH says 'prap-tice'. I pretend I didn't quite hear him until he says it correctly. I figure he just needs to praptice it! wink

MrsGeologist Sat 08-Dec-12 21:14:40

MIL unashamedly says kekkle and bokkle.

DH once asked her how many Ks there were in bottle. She said two and he's never asked again.

BooksandaCuppa Sat 08-Dec-12 22:21:16

When I worked in a bookshop a while ago, a customer once asked me where a certain item was located. When I told him, "It's where the children's section segues (segways) into the staircase", he replied, "Only someone working in a bookshop would say that"!

MadSleighLady Sat 08-Dec-12 22:24:57

Pronounciation of words like "drawing" as "draw - ring" - the BBC does it a lot

<bristles>

That is an accent. I say it like that.

Which makes me wonder, where do we draw(er) the line?

BooksandaCuppa Sat 08-Dec-12 22:27:35

I think that 'drawring' is an accent thing, too, not necessarily incorrect.

Oh and like a pp, I had never seen anyone use 'que' until this thread and now I've seen it twice (once meaning 'queue' and once 'cue'). Wierd, isn't it? (now I feel like I have to point out that that was a deliberate mistake for comic effect..why, when no-one else has?)

BooksandaCuppa Sat 08-Dec-12 22:30:41

I bet even the most learned of us have one word we mispronounce through never having heard others use it. I used to pronounce 'albeit' as 'al - bate' until about 21 and my otherwise very clever sister says 'mine - you - tay' for 'minutiae' (I try to model the pronunciation but it feels a little rude...)

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sat 08-Dec-12 22:43:15

I say haitch <hands head>

garlicbaubles Sat 08-Dec-12 23:12:36

Yeah, segue is by no means my only mispronunciation. I've been finding them out all my life and am sure I have plenty more! It comes of having read more words than I've heard - no call to be ashamed of that, imo smile

garlicbaubles Sat 08-Dec-12 23:14:28

I didn't understand what's supposed to be wrong about "sez" for 'says'? I was taught that "saize" is incorrect - though proper for some accents.

EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 08:20:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FivesGoldNorks Sun 09-Dec-12 08:26:47

Up here in the north we talk about south - wark. I had to ask a southerner for Tje proper pronunciation before I actually went

MrsGeologist Sun 09-Dec-12 08:44:13

Just seen another 'que', where there should be 'cue'.

IT'S AN EPIDEMIC.

MrsGeologist Sun 09-Dec-12 08:45:21

I still think it should be 'theasaurus' instead of 'thesaurus'.

The former just sounds better.

DillyTante Sun 09-Dec-12 09:17:48

I not phased by this at all.

DillyTante Sun 09-Dec-12 09:18:13

Ahem I'm

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 09:45:45

Argh! I've seen "I'm not phased" so often, I have to keep looking fazed up to make sure it's not me! I've been well and truly phased fazed phased disconcerted by it. It's driving me so mad, I'll be needing a straight jacket to reign me in.

EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 10:03:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cheekybaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 10:09:11

Eeeew crap, have just used it in a post. Think I used the right one? Coarse I bloody did!

LRDtheFeministDude Sun 09-Dec-12 10:14:07

I was wondering that madsleigh.

I think there's a difference between being irritated by something someone else does, and considering it is wrong like a wrong thing and you should judge them.

OliviaPeaceOnMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 09-Dec-12 10:18:47

Oh my eyes

SaintNiChaolas Sun 09-Dec-12 10:19:44

I think we're in it for the long hall.

GoldenFrankincenseAndMyrrh Sun 09-Dec-12 10:25:29

I love this thread! grin

insancerre Sun 09-Dec-12 10:33:12

It's just a phrase you are all going through

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 10:42:39

Someone should of brought you a dictionary for Christmas, Insancerre.

Nancy66 Sun 09-Dec-12 10:47:23

You are all off of your head

saccrofolium Sun 09-Dec-12 10:52:12

I don't no why people get so upset, its all just a damp squid.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sun 09-Dec-12 11:05:28

Nancy, I think you mean heads

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sun 09-Dec-12 11:07:04

<massive twat emoticon>

Or even head's.

Nancy66 Sun 09-Dec-12 11:13:31

actually I meant

YOUR all off of you're head's

luanmahi Sun 09-Dec-12 11:22:02

I'm not to bothered by people pronouncing things differently; that's just down to accent. It does annoy myself, however, when people use the wrong words, like "pacific" apose to "specific".

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sun 09-Dec-12 11:26:39

grin

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sun 09-Dec-12 11:29:24

I was always told that to say says to rhyme with plays was common wrong. It's ses.

My daughter pronounces seen as 'sin' and I shout at her.

I spent years thinking placate and facetious were pronounced differently that they are.

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 11:32:53

True, luanmahi, pronounciation is usually down too peoples' accent's. Your pacific point's a good one, but I'd rather poster's try too express themself then be to scared.

"Apose to"? You've seen that? Ouch!!

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 11:34:15

Getorf, didn't you mean "differently then"?

Nancy66 Sun 09-Dec-12 11:41:05

'seen' as 'sin'.....i HATE that - where are you from Getorf? A lot of my Sussex friends say 'sin.'

I also 'fanks' - Denise Van Outen says that all the time on STrictly. 'Fanks for voting for me'

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sun 09-Dec-12 11:57:17

Haha garlic, yes I did mean differently than (that doesn't even make sense blush

Nancy we are in Gloucestershire. All her friends say 'sin' as well. And then I walk round the house saying 'SEEEEEEEN SEEEEEEEEEEN'

I would like to give Denise van Outen a good shake.

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 13:02:26

Heh, you missed what I done there wink

I heard a belter the other day 'this needs a two prawned attack' complete with pincer fingers.

My pet peeve is past/passed

Jingleflobba Sun 09-Dec-12 13:32:51

The last time I tried to type the word queue I did it so badly the ipad spellcheck couldn't come up with any alternatives!!

MadSleighLady Sun 09-Dec-12 13:34:33

There was a great one on a thread recently. Somebody being all alpha in a meeting and saying that it was "a doggy dog world".

Nancy66 Sun 09-Dec-12 13:37:52

I once heard a woman shout

'you think you have cunt blanche to walk all over people'

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 13:39:05

hahahaaaa at cunt blanche.

MadSleighLady Sun 09-Dec-12 13:42:29

I'm going to use that.

Although it is purely antidotal.

Astelia Sun 09-Dec-12 13:48:15

I'm another one who has started to lose her marbles over phased/fazed. As for all the other horrors on MN, I despair. However I have to hold my tongue except on cathartic threads like this one. Thank you Eleanor!

Astelia Sun 09-Dec-12 13:49:08

cunt blanche OMG shock grin

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sun 09-Dec-12 13:49:57

Cunt blanche is genius.

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 13:53:35

Someone has GOT to take that as a user name. grin

Nancy66 Sun 09-Dec-12 13:54:28

It was said in a Brummie accent which made it all the funnier (no offence to Brummies)

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 13:56:10

YABU to post it here, there is a boring pendants corner for people who like picking over other peoples spelling and grammar mistakes...

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 14:34:22

Boring? shock How very dare you. Pedants' Corner is not boring. You learn stuff over there. Useful stuff. The kind of stuff that means when you write a job application people actually give you an interview and then a job, rather than laughing at your letter and throwing it in the nearest bin.

SoniaGluck Sun 09-Dec-12 14:43:35

I am glad I read through the whole thread as I have learned a lot (alot?) grin

I never, for example, knew how to pronounce segue. Fortunately, I have never had to use the word in actual, real life but it's good to know that, should I ever need to use it in the future, I will not be making a prize tit of myself.

I didn't know, for years, how to pronounce Cadogan. I had been saying it
( mostly in my head, thankfully ) wrongly for decades until my mum corrected me.

I expect that there are other words that I mispronounce and just don't realise it.

My biggest blind spot is punctuation. I was never taught about punctuation - lord knows why - and, despite trying to educate myself over the years I never feel confident about colons, semi-colons, etc. My dad used to say that I sprinkled commas about like confetti. sad

He never actually tried to help me sort it all out though. The old misery. hmm

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 14:48:05

Oh my job applications are fine thank you, in fact I had an interview Thursday due to my application.

And yes it boring and horribly smug to feel better then others due to better spelling or grammar. Being able to spell does not make you a better person then anyone else.

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 14:50:09

It may not make you a better person but it does make you a better writer. That may not be important to you, but it's extremely important to me.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 14:51:50

Yes and that is why there is a separate topic, as it's not an all round general interest.

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 14:53:17

Why did you come on the thread then? confused There are tons of threads that don't interest me so I just stay off 'em.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 14:53:44

I would of thought being so correct would mean you would be able to read... What are you being unreasonable about OP?

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 14:54:19

I'm saying nothing.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 14:54:45

Well I would stay off, if they were in the right topic, I would never click onto something from pendants corner. Thought this was a AIBU.

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 14:57:14

But most things in AIBU would fit into another category elsewhere if you think about it. You'd better get busy telling the rest of them.

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sun 09-Dec-12 15:01:39

DIES

Where's Eleanor?

Brandy perhaps there should be a tiresome dullards topic as well, just so that everyone posts in the correct place smile

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 15:02:17

Most things are framed in the correct context, I would of thought even pendants could do that. confused

Nancy66 Sun 09-Dec-12 15:04:11

ha ha...

yeah. You would of thought so.

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sun 09-Dec-12 15:08:36

I would of expected this to be cleverly ironic but I think not, somehow.

kickassangel Sun 09-Dec-12 15:15:20

I live in the US and teach English. There are some things that I thought were as wrong as a very wrong thing which turn out to be correct here. I give you somewhat and gotten.

However, there are things which everyone uses which ARE wrong. Using bring instead of take, and noxious instead of nauseated.

And they all laugh when I say whilst.

Nancy66 Sun 09-Dec-12 15:21:54

I don't like 'whilst' I have to admit....

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sun 09-Dec-12 15:25:48

A load of Americans laughed when I said fortnight in a meeting once. To them it sounded positively Shakespearian.

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 15:28:05

Most things are framed in the correct context, I would of thought even pendants could do that.

Leaving aside the "would of", which I'm SURE was ironic ... For you, Sonia:-

The comma after "context", above, is incorrect. It should be a full stop or a semi-colon. Semis are used to separate thoughts that could stand alone as sentences, but are so closely linked it seems cruel to separate them (aah!)

Further examples:-

I'm wearing two pairs of socks; my feet were cold.
It's fun to be pedantic; pedantry can be a giggle sometimes.
I would stay off if they were in the right topic; I would never click onto something from pendants corner.

The other common use of semi-colons is to separate items in a list, for example:-

Components of Christmas dinner: turkey; stuffing; roast potatoes; roast parsnips; brussels sprouts; bread sauce; gravy; cranberry jelly.

smile

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 15:31:19

Oh this could not get any funnier. grin

<crying>

SoniaGluck Sun 09-Dec-12 15:34:32

garlic Thank you. thanks

I will study this carefully.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 15:35:05

This is why I really don't like pendants. I hope Iv'e made you all laugh at my shit grammar and punctuation. Glad you can all feel superior to me now. Sorry English is not my best subject and I didn't realise this was an exam or that MN was only for those who remember to stick to the old English language. smile

Carry on crying at my poor english skills, <brushes it off> Funny the petty things people use to feel better about themselves.

Nancy66 Sun 09-Dec-12 15:35:36

Some Americans are also totally baffled at the way Brits give phone numbers:

Six, double two, treble three, double four...

etc.

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 15:38:31

Sorry Brandy. blush

<pulls serious face>

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 15:38:59

Don't kill yourself over it, Sonia! It's only punctuation ... thanks

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 15:44:30

See what you've done now Eleanor? See? angry People are cueing up to castigate the pendants.

I hope your proud.

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 15:45:34

HAAAAAAH, Fellatio!

grin

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 15:47:03

Was there any need to pull Brandys post apart like that?

How fucking mean.

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 15:49:24

fucking hell usual you have some kind of sonar/radar thing on you don't you? wink

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 15:49:37

Or maybe you were all were being cleverly ironic?

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 15:50:30

No-one pulled her post apart, usual. No-one. She was not challenged on one thing, except for coming and moaning on the threading the first place.

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 15:51:10

thread not threading. Damned autocorrect.

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 15:51:36

I've been reading this thread and keeping my gob shut, up until it got nasty.

Innit.

Nancy66 Sun 09-Dec-12 15:54:21

it wasn't nasty ....someone crashed a thread about spelling and grammar to slag it off - by using poor grammar - quite funny really.

all light-hearted.

No offence Brandybutter....just banter.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 15:56:14

Here you go fellatio, just for you since you managed to miss it. smile

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 15:28:05
Most things are framed in the correct context, I would of thought even pendants could do that.

Leaving aside the "would of", which I'm SURE was ironic ... For you, Sonia:-

The comma after "context", above, is incorrect. It should be a full stop or a semi-colon. Semis are used to separate thoughts that could stand alone as sentences, but are so closely linked it seems cruel to separate them (aah!)

Further examples:-

I'm wearing two pairs of socks; my feet were cold.
It's fun to be pedantic; pedantry can be a giggle sometimes.
I would stay off if they were in the right topic; I would never click onto something from pendants corner.

The other common use of semi-colons is to separate items in a list, for example:-

Components of Christmas dinner: turkey; stuffing; roast potatoes; roast parsnips; brussels sprouts; bread sauce; gravy; cranberry jelly.

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 15:56:27

Go back and see where it got 'nasty' usual. Whom casteth the first stone, eh?

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 15:57:01

Oh I didn't realise nancy that there were threads that could be crashed? I though MN was open to everyone, please correct me if I'm wrong.

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 15:57:53

Hang on, usual, it's quite mean and pedantic to slag off a thread full of posters for being interested in their subject - which is what Brandy did. I feel justified in criticising her grammar and spelling, as she'd gone to some lengths to stress that she doesn't care about them.

If you join a thread expressly to tell its members they are being stupid and pointless, you can more or less expect them to have a go back.

I don't much like pendants, either, but I wouldn't go onto a S&B thread about them just to tell all the other posters they were stupid. That would be fucking mean ...

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 15:59:50

So sod off to pedants' corner then,and be all smug and superior over there.

This is AIBU.

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 16:02:55

Uh-huh. YABU to tell people what threads they may and may not start in AIBU!

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 16:04:16

And YABU to tell Brandy she can't say YABU.

<ties self in knots>

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 16:05:43

grin

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 16:06:11

Oh ok Brandy fair enough. I didn't realise that was using bits of your post - I thought it was just garlic replying to sonia about how to use semi colons.

Anyway, if you are going to wade in and start a fight with the pedants you need to make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot or score an own goal. slight over-use of metaphors.

I did not say a word about your spelling, nor would I, in spite of provocation that would stand up in court. I even apologised for upsetting you, though you clearly put yourself in the line of fire more metaphors like a sitting duck similes now.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 16:06:46

<feels dizzy>

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 16:11:27

Own goal? No correct use of the english language should not impede on my point, and tbh anyone who use's that against me are petty and show themselves up more then my incorrect grammar and punctuation.

And posting AIBU not in AIBU is a valid point.

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 16:16:23

I wouldn't dare go over to pedants' corner to start a grammatically incorrect ruck,but AIBU is fair game ,Brandy wink

I'm sure there are plenty of errors in that sentence grin

kickassangel Sun 09-Dec-12 16:43:52

I've lost track of who said what, but there is a point about semi colons which I feel the need to address.

They can be used to separate items in a list when those items are phrases not individual words. For a list of individual words there should be a colon then commas separating the items OR the list should be embedded within the sentence. Use of the Oxford comma can be examined at a later time.

Examples

Christmas luncheon has many components: turkey, gravy, brussels sprouts, roast potatoes and cranberry sauce.

Christmas luncheon has many components: freshly cooked organic turkey; carrots we grow ourselves; and crisply roasted potatoes.

Christmas luncheon has many components such as turkey, vegetables, and gravy.

This has taken bleeding ages to type on the iPad. Sorry if I'm about half a century late to the discussion.

MadSleighLady Sun 09-Dec-12 17:19:17

Correct spelling doesn't have much to do with moral superiority. It's just, y'know, correct spelling. confused I think it's true we've got on to some slightly more random gripes since, but it's not really "pedantry" to suggest that queue and cue should not be spelt "que" FFS. If stuff like that is now a topic for pedants' corner we're even more fucked than I thought.

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 18:00:08

Bit dramatic to say we are all fucked because someone spelt something wrong on a chat site.

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 18:38:47

I agree Mad - it's a sad day when you are ridiculed for being a pendant because you expect things to be spelt correctly. Pedantry should be reserved for debating the Oxford comma.

MadSleighLady Sun 09-Dec-12 18:53:31

Well, I'm assuming people aren't using a wrong spelling on a chat site and the correct spelling everywhere else just to be cute, usual.

I guess for me it's in the same category as "obey the speed limit", "do the fire drill like you're supposed to" and other such favourites. It's there for everybody's convenience. Just fucking get it right and if you don't know, do the spellcheck and learn (obvious exceptions apply for dyslexia).

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 18:57:42

Why should anyone just fucking get it right it's not the law or for safety, your being ridiculous to compare it.

And IMO if you can't read a paragraph because of a should where a could should be then your quite a lot thicker then the person posting incorrectly.

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 18:59:35
EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 19:09:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cheekybaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 19:16:28

kick I am confused now, I thought there was no comma in a list before an 'and' ?

cheekybaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 19:18:34

I am a pendant with matching stoods smile

FellatioNelson Sun 09-Dec-12 19:18:46

That's the Oxford comma for you. Very useful, but much maligned.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 19:20:15

I luffs usual <3 <3 grin

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sun 09-Dec-12 19:27:36

Oxford comma is very important in correctly conveying your meaning. See here :http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3438

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sun 09-Dec-12 19:28:01
nickelbabylyinginamanger Sun 09-Dec-12 19:32:08

oh i agree. the oxford comma is a very important tool in separation of clauses

TrillsCarolsOutOfTune Sun 09-Dec-12 19:33:14

I like an Oxford comma.

MadSleighLady Sun 09-Dec-12 19:59:03

Meh, I can take or leave Oxford commas. And that silly thing about not starting sentences with "and" and "but", I do that all the time.

Brandy, if you don't give a shit about correct spelling, which is your prerogative, why did you bother to come on to a thread to have a go at people for talking about something you allegedly don't give a shit about? It doesn't make a lot of sense. Either you care about making mistakes or you don't.

I have a sneaking suspicion Randall Munroe would be on the side of the pendants here, by the way.

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 20:26:08

Maybe Brandy didn't get the memo telling her you had changed the rules on an AIBU thread?

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 20:28:05

I might not give a shit about correct spelling, but I do give a shit about people thinking they're somehow cleverer or better because they can spell. Also this is a chat site, anyone can chat anywhere, the clues in the name smile

MadSleighLady Sun 09-Dec-12 20:47:37

Well, yes, anyone can say anything. Which includes me concluding (out loud) that what you're saying doesn't make a lot of sense. I could probably jump onto dozens of threads at any one time and say "You're all wrong to care about this topic and hold the view that you do because for me it has associations with xyz, so therefore that must be true regardless of why YOU think you hold your view", but, really, why would I?

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 20:56:00

Well why would you not? You are all wrong to feel superior because you can spell.

EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 20:57:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MadSleighLady Sun 09-Dec-12 20:59:00

Apparently the term for some of these is "eggcorns" by the way. DP found this.

MadSleighLady Sun 09-Dec-12 21:02:46

Never heard of most of those. I'm loving "whorefrost" though. Maybe we'll get some tonight.

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 21:05:09

Thanks, kickass! I now consider myself a better-informed pedant wink

Pantomimedam Sun 09-Dec-12 21:22:29

Brandy, do you want to take that inferiority complex somewhere else? Perhaps you could go over to style and beauty and tell them they are all ugly mugs. I don't know why it bothers you so much that some people know how to spell and punctuate but maybe you should do something about it.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sun 09-Dec-12 21:28:37

Good God, is there no ends to the lengths people will go to to feel offended????!

And there I was thinking this was a fun thread.

FivesGoldNorks Sun 09-Dec-12 21:31:51

"GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sun 09-Dec-12 15:25:48
A load of Americans laughed when I said fortnight in a meeting once. To them it sounded positively Shakespearian. "

What do they call it? Or do they not have a name for it?
I wonder if there's a nation somewhere out there wondering how we get by without a word for a period of three weeks

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 21:32:15

smile no thanks I'm fine right here.

And yes actually this whole thread of I'm so better then those plebs tone does offend me, not any great length to feel offended at it as it's so fucking rude and sneering. I doubt even if the lot of you had dog shit under your nose your could screw it up any more.

ParsingFancy Sun 09-Dec-12 21:33:52

I think we should reintroduce "sennight", to go with fortnight.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sun 09-Dec-12 21:34:44

I'm genuinely, genuinely perplexed by you. No one forced you to read it. Non one said "That Brandy, such a pleb." It was clearly a lighthearted thread.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 21:38:34

Really such a light hearted thread? Have we read the same thread? have you not seen posts howling with derision at the odd spelling mistake from someone else? Do I need to go and copy and paste because I can.

Why do you feel it's ok to look down and laugh at others mistakes and ignorance?

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 21:41:55

Nothing lighthearted about, Pantomimedams post.

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 21:44:16

oops, odd comma there for you all to itch your teeth at.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sun 09-Dec-12 21:45:14

OK. Everyone admits it. Placing this thread in AIBU was a thinly disguised attempt to howl at and deride, look down and laugh at those less fortunate that ourselves.

Satisfied?

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 21:45:39

If the cap fits.....

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 21:50:23

Still waiting for an explanation why it's ok to laugh at someones mistakes?

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sun 09-Dec-12 21:52:55

You are tiresome.

EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 21:53:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I love this lighthearted thread. I don't feel any sneering or derision went on until Brandy and Usual arrived personally. Just people expressing an opinion in an AIBU thread.

Maybe AIBU should have an extra warning, or perhaps people should look at why they are getting their knickers in a twist over other people's opinions.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 21:54:02

Or maybe you just don't like realising what a bitch your being laughing at others?

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 21:56:25

Yeah it's an AIBU thread, so anyone can say ,well, yes, I think YABU.

Or is that not allowed anymore?

EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 21:56:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 21:57:07

Here is where the sneering started

saccrofolium Sat 08-Dec-12 10:45:47
Us mummy's should know how to rite.

<eyes stream blood>

Add message | Report | Message poster GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sat 08-Dec-12 11:06:15
My all time favourite mumsnet thicko moment was on a very serious thread about gender selection or something. Someone made a very reasoned post but in the middle of it she said 'uneffical'. I could sense the rest of the thread looking at this howler in a state of anguish and mirth but nobody said anything, presumably due to the seriousness of the thread. But I felt the mental equivalrent of hopping up and down and saying 'looook, looook'

Add message | Report | Message poster GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Sat 08-Dec-12 11:09:44
Oh and another one where a londoner mumsnetter ranted on about her local council, but spelled it cancel (cos that's how she says it)

Add message | Report | Message poster EleanorGiftbasket Sat 08-Dec-12 11:11:00
Oh god I remember the cancel one.

It was a very frothy ranty thread and she said 'cancel' about eight times.

I was CRYING.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 21:58:43

mumsnet thicko moment hey, how lovely and light hearted smile

EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 22:00:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 22:01:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 22:03:25

Come on Brandy, lets fuck off to thickos corner.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 22:03:43

What a spiteful person you are OP.

Spelling and grammar have nothing to do with IQ, thicko people as you so charmingly put it, can spell to.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 22:04:53

No usual I am not going anywhere. Really cross people can't see how fucking rude and judgemental they are.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sun 09-Dec-12 22:05:58

shock

What nonsense.

Usual, I thought you were, you know, a laugh and that. A belend in fact.

EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 22:06:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sun 09-Dec-12 22:07:17

And pedal stool is funny!

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 22:08:59

Yes OP you still haven't explained why it's good to laugh at others mistakes?

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 22:09:46

I don't find sneering and laughing at other posters mistakes funny.

These sort of threads make me cringe TBH.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sun 09-Dec-12 22:09:54

Ahem. Others' mistakes

<exits hurriedly>

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 22:11:20

Can I just ask why you haven't bothered to learn basic spelling & punctuation, Brandy? This is a genuine question. You clearly aren't thick and haven't said you're dyslexic. So why not just learn?

EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 22:11:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 22:12:20

Yes have another laugh on me smile how lovely it must be to type perfectly and laugh at others who don't. You still haven't explained why you like laughing at others mistakes and ignorance?

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sun 09-Dec-12 22:12:44

Usual, in all seriousness, I don't think the thread was at all sneering apart from the example quoted above with "uneffical" in it. I really don't. It was just silly. And when Brandy came on with her issues about it, I really wondered why she was feeling defensive about it because it does't seem as though there's anything amiss with her English at all.

I think most people were being twatty and admitting it, which was the fun part about it.

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 22:12:49

Oh now we have the condescending posts.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 22:14:18

Well garlic I could tell you my life history, but I'm sure it would just get more of the laugh at others misery and thickness laughs.

EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 22:14:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 22:16:03

That was to, garlic.

I make mistakes all the bloody time on here, I don't give a toss what any one thinks TBH. But some posters might be embarrassed by it.

EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 22:17:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 22:18:13

I don't get how it's funny to laugh at others spelling mistakes and call them thickos. I don't get how it's funny to laugh at someones ignorance, maybe they haven't finished school, maybe they haven't gone on to uni, maybe they haven't a job that they need to write in every day and so forget certain grammar rules.

I don't measure a persons cleverness and worth over if they remember to write their or there.

EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 22:19:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 22:20:08

Thats why I dislike pendants OP your post sums it up smile

saccrofolium Sun 09-Dec-12 22:20:39

Oooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

I started the sneering! It's efficial! grin
<preen>

Tell me Brandy, do you burn your fingers when you iron your knickers?

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sun 09-Dec-12 22:21:20

You know, I could have gone on and on in the thread which was all about mad things strangers had said which people thought were funny, and it was obvious that some of the people quoted were mentally ill and I had taken personal offence at it, but I didn't. Because a lot of it was funny.

The way this has gone actually makes me quite sad. Some people hide behind the "oh I find that offensive" curtain all the time, and it must be so tedious for them. And NO, I am not talking about the things which we genuinely should be offended by such as racism, sexism and disablism.

EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 22:21:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 22:23:36

I don't wear knickers I wear thongs. grin

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 22:25:02

Yeah you are right, it's fine to take the piss out of peoples mistakes.

Knock yourself out.

[PO]

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 22:25:28

This is something to be offended at, if you measure someones worth over incorrect grammar there is something wrong with you and your way of thinking.

saccrofolium Sun 09-Dec-12 22:25:40

Fongs?

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 22:25:49

<flicks V at thread>

<goes for a fag>

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 22:26:46

<starts smoking again>

EleanorGiftbasket Sun 09-Dec-12 22:27:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Sun 09-Dec-12 22:27:56

Now whose judging?

<clutches sides>

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 22:32:25

So if your not good at something, and your adding up in a shop using your fingers or you can't run for the bus or choose the correct outfit for the interview we'll all just sit back and laugh at you then, how lovely.

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 22:32:54

It's not condescending to ask, usual. Brandy doesn't want to divulge - fair enough.

Not a soul on this thread has set themselves up as a perfect arbiter of written English. We all make mistakes, especially in a medium like this where the speed & gist of the post tend to matter more than its precise expression.

But the fact remains that there is such a thing as standard English. It sometimes matters a lot: misplaced punctuation, misspellings and malapropisms can change the meaning of a statement. It's not elitist to acknowledge that.

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 22:37:28

Well, we will have to agree to disagree then.These threads make me cringe.

I would never take the piss out of someones mistakes on here, unless they were calling me a belend grin

MadSleighLady Sun 09-Dec-12 22:39:17

Honestly, this thread really wasn't about you, Brandy, however determined you are to make it about you. It was a fun thread with a serious point. It matters to me that mutual comprehension doesn't go down the toilet, it's got nothing to do with "being better or cleverer". I think you are just projecting your own insecurities.

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 22:42:14

It is about other posters though.

Not random people who don't actually post on here.

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 22:42:23

Well Iv'e never been called a thicko in RL so nope no insecurity there or projecting, in fact during school I was always in the top sets.

If it bothers you so much about a misplaced ' then you have issues, and if you cannot read the post because of a ' then your the thicko.

garlicbaubles Sun 09-Dec-12 22:44:38

we will have to agree to disagree - Agreed smile

"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child." - Dan Quayle

Tell me that isn't funny!

InNeedOfBrandyButter Sun 09-Dec-12 22:46:19

Oh and where did I say this thread was about me? confused This is a chat site and I am allowed to express my opinion, in fact the OP asked for my opinion since I'm a member of this site and I said YABU and why. That is the whole point of this site.

Yes taking the piss out of other posters when they're not even on this thread is below the belt, vile and spiteful. Don't see how that's made it about me? Maybe you have forgot it's actual people behind the screen, although being as rude and petty as what you are being I doubt you care that someone feels humiliated after reading this thread and realising one of those spelling mistakes was them.

usualsocksprezzie Sun 09-Dec-12 22:48:13

I get that generally they are funny, but anyone could read this thread and be embarrassed about mistakes they have made on here.

Thats my point,and I will shut up now.

MadSleighLady Sun 09-Dec-12 22:54:04

Blimey, Brandy, in two successive posts you've called me a thicko and then accused me of being rude?

Time to step back, perhaps...

Pantomimedam Sun 09-Dec-12 22:57:13

Taking the piss out of other people is pretty much the basis of all humour. Mistakes are funny, that's why You've Been Framed/Fawlty Towers/<insert your favourite joke/comedian/programme of choice> are so popular.

Smeggnog Sun 09-Dec-12 23:05:59

I've made some of the mistakes mentioned on here. I'd much rather I found out on this thread than in a much more embarrassing way, like in an important letter to a client.

kickassangel Mon 10-Dec-12 01:49:25

can we not laugh at the mistakes, particularly when they unintentionally change the meaning of a sentence, without it automatically being assumed that we're laughing at the person making the mistake? There's quite a rich tradition of using these kinds of mistakes as comedy.
Shakespeare did it.
As did these guys

btw - I just notices that that 'strippers' thing about the Oxford comma relies on an unnecessary commas before the names, which shouldn't be there. I've just ruined a goo joke, haven't I?

FellatioNelson Mon 10-Dec-12 03:43:22

If we all stopped laughing at other people's mistakes, or sneering at their lack of judgement or poor standards there would be nothing in Classics, and MN may swell shut down.

Just because this one hit a nerve with some people who have mahoosive chips on their shoulders doesn't make it any worse than any of the others.

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Mon 10-Dec-12 06:11:09

Oh well. I think laughing at other people's mistakes is funny, and so do other people, I did not invent Mrs Malaprop.

And if you think someone like me is a sneering vile twat you may be right I am not the only one. For every tosser like me mocking a 'would of' on an internet forum, there is going to be someone a lot more important than me judging a 'would of' on a job application letter or similar. So shite like this does matter.

And it's a bit touching to bring up the fact you were on the top set at school, brandy. Because that means a LOT when you're an adult.

<Goes and sits in cunty corner>

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Mon 10-Dec-12 06:13:00

Oh and fortnight - apparently americans don't use that term, they just say 2 weeks (apparently).

In French there is a term quinzaine, which means 15 days. Which to me seems a pointless period of time to specifically name but there you are.

FivesGoldNorks Mon 10-Dec-12 06:54:18

that's really weird
I'm going to invent the Norkight, which is a period from 9am on Monday morning, to 4pm on the following Thursday. Just because.

FellatioNelson Mon 10-Dec-12 07:07:43

The thing is Brandy, no-one has said that they 'measure someone's worth' as a human being by the standard of their written English, and no-one has said that they believe themselves to be superior or more intelligent (although I suspect that on the whole they probably are more intelligent, though not always; it's not as simple as that, as most people will acknowledge.)

Neither do they think they are a 'better person' by dint of being able to spell and punctuate correctly. I suspect the only thing people genuinely believe is that (dyslexia excepted) they are perhaps better educated and/or just have more exacting standards.

In my case that is certainly not true about being better educated, and I'm no IQ genius either, so why am I a bit of a pedant? Because communicating well is important to me - it's just about the only thing I do well, and I am a perfectionist. I don't know everything and I still make mistakes, but I listen and I remember and I learn. I have read a great deal over the years and if I see a word (let's use the yours/your's thing as an example) repeatedly used in the correct context then I notice when it is used in the incorrect context, and I am always a bit confused by people who neither notice nor seem to care.

Eleanor explained the yours/your's rule about contractions and possessives to you upthread, but you clearly ignored it because you made the same mistake in your next post. You are so bogged down in your belief that people are out to belittle you that you would rather persist in being wrong, and angry with us for being right, than in learning to be right. That's fine - I don't care. But I don't need to care, because I am not being held back in life because of it.

But since you brought up 'measuring worth' let's measure worth. A good PA (for example) is worth a whole heap more in monetary terms than a good shop assistant or a good care worker or a good cleaner. Why? Because a good PA has excellent communication skills both written and spoken. He/she can be relied upon to communicate in a professional, accurate and non-ambigious way that will not embarrass or misrepresent the company he/she works for.

Now, of course they will be plenty of cleaners and shop assistants etc. who also have excellent written and spoken English, but they don't necessarily need it to do their jobs well. It is not an important skill for that role and not worth paying extra for. Which is fine, if you love that work, and don't really care about being on minimum wage for the rest of your life, with no career progression, but if you DO care, and you have a reasonably sharp mind and good articulation of thought (which you do) then you owe it to yourself to listen and learn, and brush up your written skills. You can bang on all you like about how it shouldn't matter, we're only chatting on a forum, yada yada, and how it has nothing to do with your level of intelligence, but all the while potential employers suspect it might you are under-selling yourself - because of what? Dogged stubbornness and inverted snobbery? I've read loads of your posts on many topics. I know you are articulate, I know you are not stupid, but you are blinkered and defensive.

Honestly - it's not that hard. Mastering the most important basics of punctuation and grammar can be done in a week if you make the effort. But you'd rather put all your energies into frothing about the conspiracy of superior poshos trying to do you down.

Incidentally, I once had a 'New Home' card from a lovely friend who wrote 'I hope your be very happy in your new house'. grin

FellatioNelson Mon 10-Dec-12 07:09:37

there will be

GrimAndHumourlessAndEven Mon 10-Dec-12 07:19:26

Wonderful post Fell

FellatioNelson Mon 10-Dec-12 07:30:43

Thank you. <takes sweeping bow>

EleanorGiftbasket Mon 10-Dec-12 07:30:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

usualsocksprezzie Mon 10-Dec-12 07:37:08

Is it Ok to rip the piss out of the posters this thread then?

usualsocksprezzie Mon 10-Dec-12 07:38:09

<Flexes chip>

GrimAndHumourlessAndEven Mon 10-Dec-12 07:44:17

How could one NOT snurkle at pedal stool or chester draws?

FellatioNelson Mon 10-Dec-12 07:45:35

It's not ok to rip the piss out of anyone directly, usual, on any thread, unless they are being wankers.

But I do not believe that happened on this thread. It was all very light-hearted and harmless; nobody was mentioned specifically or by name, no actual person was insulted or humiliated. Until Brandy arrived and started insulting people directly.grin

Even then her mistakes were ignored for the most part. It was only when she persisted in being argumentative that someone caved.

usualsocksprezzie Mon 10-Dec-12 07:51:23

I only got involved when a poster ripped Brandys post to bits.

Anyway I haven't got time for this now, I have to go and do my menial job wink

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Mon 10-Dec-12 08:07:04

I don't think I ripped her post to bits, laughed at a possibly strategically placed would of though.

I did put a pass agg smily in there though, but don't blame me, it's that bonsoir's fault.

I couldn't give a fig whether someone can't spell. I think it's daft to state categorically that not being able to spell and punctuate doesn't matter and doesn't impact RL. The world is full of people who will judge you on basic errors.

MothershipG Mon 10-Dec-12 08:18:30

I was reading this thread with amusement last night and was a bit confused at how it all went so pear-shaped and was trying to work out how I could express what Felatio has put in such a brilliantly erudite manner. Especially at 7 in the morning! Whose thought processes are that clear that early? wink

(If this was FB I could have just clicked the 'Like' button, much quicker.)

usualsocksprezzie Mon 10-Dec-12 08:19:38

I'm over it now,and posting from my BB on the bus while listening to some teenager playing Gangnam style on his phone.So this post will probably be unreadable.

allthatglittersisnotgold Mon 10-Dec-12 08:23:57

A lady I know says were in place of we'll, for example.... Were have to go for a drink. Arrrgh, that one hurts so much, she doesn't even manage we're!!

GetorfsaMotherfuckingMorrisMan Mon 10-Dec-12 08:24:41

I was on the train a few weeks ago and some kid got on the quiet carriage and played Dr Dre at 90 decibels. I asked him ever so nicely if he could turn it down a bit and he told me to fuck off.

So I have gone back to being british about it and just roll my eyes and tut under my breath.

Bloody sodding godforsaken trains. I am on one now and its bloody freezing.

Dawndonna Mon 10-Dec-12 09:04:47

Brilliant post, Fellatio.

Allthat is she from Norfolk?

FellatioNelson Mon 10-Dec-12 09:18:33

Mother I live abroad and I am three hours ahead of you, but thank you anyway. grin

allthatglittersisnotgold Mon 10-Dec-12 09:44:20

Kent I think, it's a far reaching problem it seems!

TrillsCarolsOutOfTune Mon 10-Dec-12 09:51:36

Shhh Fellatio - pretend that you are just super incisive early in the morning!

Dawndonna Mon 10-Dec-12 10:30:47

Obviously is, Allthat. Or should that be obliviously?
wink