"I was sat" is incorrect!

(100 Posts)
forshitsandgiggles Tue 10-Apr-12 02:23:40

Does anyone else want to scream/throw things upon hearing the increasingly common misuse of the past participle? It has become the norm for people to say "he was SAT over there..." when it should be "he was sitting over there" or "we were led down" no, you were "lying down", you daft muppets.

Sorry to rant but I'm sick of hearing this and wonder if it bothers anybody else? I always use a particular example to illustrate this point. You would always say "I was swimming" and not "I was swam", as the latter sounds, frankly, ridiculous.

Fayrazzled Tue 10-Apr-12 05:56:04

Well, if you're posting in the pedants' corner, shouldn't it be "we were laid down" in your example, not "led down" if the next part of your example is "lying down"?

Fraktal Tue 10-Apr-12 06:01:02

He was sat can be correct. Last night my DS was sat in his high chair because its not an action he undertook!

But I see your point and it's annoying.

MsNorbury Tue 10-Apr-12 08:03:41

So agree. Is a marker of a thicko

Savannahgirl Tue 10-Apr-12 08:23:04

Quite agree with you OP, my DSs have picked it up at school and I'm always correcting them on it. It drives me nuts and I sound like a broken record.

Another one that irritates me is the old "X and me" vs^ "X and I"^ as in "Fred and me went swimming".

I tell my DSs, you wouldn't say "Me went swimming" it would be "I went swimming", so when you add another person to the equation, that doesn't change!

I don't think my kids ever get through a whole sentance without me interrupting to correct their grammar grin

BIWI Tue 10-Apr-12 08:35:33

Is it not a dialect thing? I think it's a way of speaking that you hear a lot in the North. (I'm from Leeds).

In which case it isn't incorrect!

HandMadeTail Tue 10-Apr-12 08:38:36

Is grammar descriptive, or prescriptive?

DaisySteiner Tue 10-Apr-12 08:40:24

The old 'X and me' thing is being increasingly overused though. I often hear people say things like 'My parents sent a present to my husband and I' Aaargh, NO!

PuffPants Tue 10-Apr-12 08:55:37

It's not a northern thing, all sorts of people from all sorts of places have bad grammar.

It makes me cringe.

SardineQueen Tue 10-Apr-12 08:56:35

My mum gets in a lather about "she was sat on the chair".

DH says "I'm going for a lay down" which makes me grind my teeth a bit.

jkklpu Tue 10-Apr-12 08:58:17

It's a regional variation, so it's correct in some parts of the country, even if it winds up others. "We were led down" is nothing to do with lying, however, so don't follow that - either from "lead" or you mean "we were lain down".

Savannahgirl Tue 10-Apr-12 09:12:28

I've heard it said as "led down", jkkipu, I think to mean "laid down"

SardineQueen Tue 10-Apr-12 09:17:00

Presumably the people posting that they don't like it, are not in parts of the country where it is the usual way of speaking. We are in SE and although many people say "he was sat over there" it is not a regional thing it is just poor use of English.

If led down is for laid down is for lie down then that is a double whammy!

FullBeam Tue 10-Apr-12 09:18:31

I agree with you, OP. I also find 'I was sat' really annoying. It seems to be so widely used that people think it is correct.

I have the same feelings about 'I done it.'

anniewoo Tue 10-Apr-12 09:26:07

I hate hate hate ' she done it' or 'I done it'. Is it a particularly Irish thing? I am Irish (living in Ireland) and it makes me cringe as our education system is apparently good yet this is becoming the norm. Do British people use it? ' Bored of ' is another one. I blame the primary teachers- if they don't lead the way and teach correct grammar how will children learn it. Sorry for the rant.

Savannahgirl Tue 10-Apr-12 09:29:45

I agree with you Sardine.

My DS's get frustrated that I'm always correcting them and tell me "It's what you say, not how you say it, that matters!"

I repeatedly have to keep telling them that the way you say something is every bit as important as what you are saying and will influence how others, especially prospective employers, see you.

imogengladheart Tue 10-Apr-12 09:38:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SardineQueen Tue 10-Apr-12 09:45:45

But clearly people are not getting irritated about people talking about babies being sat in high chairs or people being led down a path.

clam Tue 10-Apr-12 10:05:49

I got into a futile argument with a bed salesman about a manufactured label in the store that said, "come and lay down on this bed," or something similar. He tried to maintain that it was perfectly correct.
Didn't buy it in the end.

PuffPants Tue 10-Apr-12 11:29:56

SardineQueen, just because a lot of people say it doesn't make it grammatically correct. That just means a lot of people are wrong.

Northey Tue 10-Apr-12 11:32:40

> Is grammar descriptive, or prescriptive?

Prescriptive, handmadetail. Linguistics is the descriptive one.

SardineQueen Tue 10-Apr-12 12:19:53

confused puffpants that is what I said.

SardineQueen Tue 10-Apr-12 12:20:46

Or are you talking about people who speak with dialects?

I'm not fussed about dialects / local turns of phrase. I think they are a good thing TBH.

ZZZenAgain Tue 10-Apr-12 12:28:29

I don't see how you can "be sat in a chair". Some people have said that "he was sat" can be correct but I don't see how it can be. What form is that supposed to be? It would be "he sat in his chair" (simple past) or "he was sitting in his chair" (past progressive) IMO. If it is a passive form, I would say "he was seated" or more likely "he was placed/put in a chair"

SardineQueen Tue 10-Apr-12 12:45:31

"Where's the doll?"
"I've sat her in the pram"

That's what they are thinking of.

SardineQueen Tue 10-Apr-12 12:46:19

Although I know f all about parts of speech so can't help with that!

ZZZenAgain Tue 10-Apr-12 12:49:02

I think that is the difference between to set/to sit or to lay/to lie and so on, different verb usually. For the passive though as I said, I would use place/put in the pram I've put her in the pram

ZZZenAgain Tue 10-Apr-12 12:49:51

which is not passive anyway! ha

she was put
I have put her

I don't think it's particularly bad. It's a verb that could be construed in a passive way - not just "I sat him in his high chair" but also in the sense that I was not actively sitting iyswim. It indicates a static-ness that you don't get from "I was sitting".

I'm not sure if I'm capturing this well but I could imagine someone saying eg "I was stood there for hours" like in French you would say "J'etais debout" - it's almost using the verb (stand, stood) as an adjective (debout) so just describes the state of standing rather than the doing of standing.

SardineQueen Tue 10-Apr-12 12:54:41

"I was stood there for hours" would also have my mum recoil in horror!

Those don't bother me so much but going for a lay down is just GRRRRRRRRR grin

SardineQueen Tue 10-Apr-12 12:55:08

Actually I take it back, I read that back "I was stood there for hours" and flinched!

ZZZenAgain Tue 10-Apr-12 12:56:41

I read it a lot on MN but actually it doesn't bother me

SardineQueen Tue 10-Apr-12 12:58:35

I flinched because I wrote it wink

I don't really mind what other people write, but some of DHs expressions annoy me.

Ephiny Tue 10-Apr-12 13:03:53

I'm more baffled than annoyed by this really. To me it seems like something that everyone has started saying in the last few years, I'm sure it's a fairly new thing, and I can't understand why! It's not just people with a poor grasp of English/grammar either, but those who should (and I suspect do) know better.

I think it's an affectation/fashion, not a mistake.

nickelhasababy Tue 10-Apr-12 13:26:37

true true.

i warned dh i would have to correct his speech now we have dd (i used to ignore it).
he's taken to it quite well.
(after i stood next to him as he told me he did something quick and i said "how did you do it?" until he understood and said "quickly".)

nickelhasababy Tue 10-Apr-12 13:27:37

you were laid down if you had been placed onto some surface.
grin

nickelhasababy Tue 10-Apr-12 13:30:27

and to cklarify - he was placed into a highchair.
he can't be sat into a highchair.

you don't put someone in a place, but into

Mrskbpw Tue 10-Apr-12 13:34:48

Yes, yes, yes Ephiny! It is a recent thing. I studied linguistics at uni and remember it being given as an example of Lancashire (?) dialect. Now it's everywhere.

Other recent additions that make me very angry are 'snuck' instead of 'sneaked' and do NOT get me started on people using 'myself' or 'I' when they mean 'me'. JUST SAY ME. It's fine.

FullBeam Tue 10-Apr-12 14:04:38

'Myself' drives me mad too! DH and I are often shouting 'ME, it's ME!' at the television when someone says, 'Pass the coffee to myself,' or some such nonsense.

Maybe we should get out more!

IAmSherlocked Tue 10-Apr-12 14:11:08

The 'I was sat' drives me mad too - it just sounds so uneducated (blush at being such a grammar snob but I can't help it).

And as for the other example in the OP, I do indeed have a friend who says 'I was led on the sofa when...' I am fairly sure that she means she was lying on the sofa when... grin

DaisySteiner Tue 10-Apr-12 14:12:19

I'm with you FullBeam, drives me crazy! Call centre operators are the worst for that IME eg. 'please send a letter to ourselves' angry

IAmSherlocked Tue 10-Apr-12 14:12:30

An Americanism that irritates me when I see it in books, by the way, is 'shined' instead of 'shone' - 'The police officer shined the torch at the criminal.' Has anyone else ever seen that? It makes my teeth itch!

clam Tue 10-Apr-12 14:18:31

daisy I have just this minute finished a telephone call with an insurance broker who said, "if it's OK with yourself, post it back to myself asap."
FGS!

"any beverages for yourselves?"

kipperandtiger Tue 10-Apr-12 15:59:48

I agree with OP!

kipperandtiger Tue 10-Apr-12 16:04:41

But....some of these phrases are derived from dialects (as Mrskbpw points out about Lancashire) and regional translations - eg "I was after telling you" or "I was after going" is a quaint turn of phrase from Irish speakers.....but it really sounds wrong when it's not spoken by locals from those regions.

ZZZenAgain Tue 10-Apr-12 16:22:02

"and to cklarify - he was placed into a highchair.
he can't be sat into a highchair.

you don't put someone in a place, but into"

No. In English verbs of movement can and do use "in". He was placed in a highchair" is correct. Into has the additional meaning of "enter". So for instance, we would say "she walked into the castle/room" but not "she placed Easter eggs into the basket or a child in a pram".

SardineQueen Tue 10-Apr-12 16:50:26

He can be sat in a highchair though, if someone has picked him up and put him there, in a seated position.

ZZZenAgain Tue 10-Apr-12 17:04:30

not sure how you are viewing "sat" in that phrase. As the past participle of a verb of movement?

What I mean is: he was placed or seated in the chair = he was sat in the chair. Is that how you are using it?

ZZZenAgain Tue 10-Apr-12 17:09:59

(in case anyone forgot, past participle is the third form below)
I sit (present)
I sat (past simple)
I had sat (uses past participle) also used to construct the passive (he was placed for instance)

sit on its own is not a verb of movement. I set the vase on the table. (movement)
The vase sits on the table (position)

CurrySpice Tue 10-Apr-12 17:18:20

nickelhasababy if my DP corrected my grammar like that I would really roll my eyes, I think it's really rude tbh and you knew just what he meant in an everyday, casual conversation between people who know each other well. Unclench!

"I was sat" seems more common up north

ZZZenAgain Tue 10-Apr-12 17:39:45

I think it has become quite common now and although I don't see how it can be grammatically correct (happy to be corrected though), I think it is so widespread that it isn't something that bothers me. Maybe it is originally dialect usage and has just spread beyond the region where it is normally used.

GilbertandGeorge Tue 10-Apr-12 19:41:31

I agree.

And the other thing annoying me on MN at the moment - gotten. confused

jimswifein1964 Tue 10-Apr-12 19:46:39

Nothing is as bad on mn as 'I brought it form the shop...'

jimswifein1964 Tue 10-Apr-12 19:47:30

*from - typing in hurry before bath overflows blush and hence the poor strucure too blush

DaisySteiner Tue 10-Apr-12 19:49:29

Que for cue (or queue for that matter) makes my eyes bleed.

Mrskbpw Tue 10-Apr-12 20:49:00

Weirdly, I quite like gotten. It makes sense to me and I think we used to say it, didn't we (still do in Scotland?) before it evolved out of spoken English. Got sounds too short to me...

jkklpu Tue 10-Apr-12 21:04:17

I like gotten, too - an archaism still used int he US, with the bonus that it also reminds me of The West Wing, just like "oftentimes"

nickelhasababy Wed 11-Apr-12 10:47:02

Curry - i have to. think of the children shock

I live in an area of the world where correct english swept past without touching the side. sad

CurrySpice Wed 11-Apr-12 13:42:20

I know what you mean. I hate the local vernacular where I live sad

And I correct my own children all the time. Because I am their mother.

But I would not correct my partner. because I am not his mother

nickelhasababy Wed 11-Apr-12 13:50:48

the reason i am starting to correct his grammar is not because of him, but because of DD.
/i don't want her to grow up speaking incorrectly, and if he does it, then she'll pick it up.
i thought if i got him into the habit now, by the time she's starting to speak, he'll be used to speaking mostly correctly.

I know it's awful to correct ones own partner, but i just can't bear the idea of my dd thinking it's correct to say "i done vat" when she meant " i have done that"
as ore people outside the home speak badly if both parents speak properly, then there's chance she'll get it right too.

it wouldn't be so important, i think, if i had a southern accent, because i'd hold more away, but i say bath and grass, which is already different to everyone else, so why should she accept "th" and tenses from me, either?

nickelhasababy Wed 11-Apr-12 13:51:01

sway not away.

habbibu Wed 11-Apr-12 13:59:28

"> Is grammar descriptive, or prescriptive?

Prescriptive, handmadetail. Linguistics is the descriptive one."

No, you can and do have descriptive grammars. What you think of as Standard English grammar was a description which then became codified to an extent. But grammar does change, albeit slowly.

Dialects have their own grammars, internally consistent, and just as old (or older) than that of Standard English. So "I was sat" isn't ungrmmatical per se, it's just not Standard English. And outside of formal situations, there's no absolute necessity to always speak or write standard English.

PimpMyTunnel Wed 11-Apr-12 14:04:26

It really doesn't bother me. It doesnt make anyone better because they pronounced a word correctly confused

CurrySpice Wed 11-Apr-12 14:04:33

Nickels, if you think correcting your partner will make any difference to how he speaks, let alone how your DD speaks, then do so. Personally, if I were him I would feel mightily patronised.

My exH speaks with the local accent and grammar horrors of where we live in Essex. I speak with a Black Country accent (not very broad but discernible) and our kids speak really nicely, but nothing like either of us. I correct them all the time ("We was" being a major bugbear) but I wouldn't correct an adult because, well, they're an adult and can speak how they damn well please and I think it's really rude tbh

nickelhasababy Wed 11-Apr-12 14:12:20

sad

he takes it in good heart (i don't do it all the time!! mainly it's the "done" and "you was" blush)

nickelhasababy Wed 11-Apr-12 14:13:57

but that's it, isn't it?
he wasn't corrected as a child!

and i have a junior chorister who doesn't pronounce the "th", and that came from his teachers! sad

CurrySpice Wed 11-Apr-12 14:18:12

Well if he doesn't mind, go ahead. Just saying that I would mind

And I think you're too late to correct him now...concentrate on your DD!

Sorry if I sounded chippy. I didn't want to make you go sad

habbibu Wed 11-Apr-12 14:18:56

I'm not sure it's so much correcting children as modelling language, iyswim. I seem to remember reading research that said that the correcting itself made little difference, whereas the overall exposure to language influenced child language acquisition. But it was ages ago. For an adult it would be like learning a foreign language, in a way, and harder than for children.

CurrySpice Wed 11-Apr-12 14:24:06

And so once they go to school....

nickelhasababy Wed 11-Apr-12 14:25:14

thanks Curry.
i do know what you mean, but the very idea of DD growing up speaking like those round here gives me cold sweats.
I didn't know they sounded like this before i moved here, and i fell in love with DH, so I can't really leave wink

nickelhasababy Wed 11-Apr-12 14:25:47

habbibu ta. <<sobsobsob>>

habbibu Wed 11-Apr-12 14:26:51

Well, that's interesting, isn't it? I'm pretty sure school has a fairly strong influence on accent, but if a pre-school child has a lot of exposure to language from birth, I wonder if that is retained, so that even if they pick up stuff in school, they become "bi-dialectal" or something.

My grammar has become quite Scottish over the years...

nickelhasababy Wed 11-Apr-12 14:27:02

but yeah, you're right, it's immersion (hence me wanting DH to speak correctly around her)
there's nothing i can do.
(public school maybe?)

habbibu Wed 11-Apr-12 14:28:50

Oh, sorry, nickel - what I actually meant was that you'll be influencing her simply by how you speak, as one of her main linguistic influences, and that maybe correction isn't so important. If she's modelling both you and DH, then she may grow up with two dialects that she can switch between, iyswim.

Sorry - I did phrase that thoughtlessly.

CurrySpice Wed 11-Apr-12 14:29:34

Oh I speak in a completely different accent to my family than I do at work. Completely unintentionally, it just happens naturally. My kids can tell when I've been on the phone to my mom because of how I am talking grin

At work, I have an boring accent that's difficult to place. With my family, I am all Black Country and proud

habbibu Wed 11-Apr-12 14:31:00

I mean, think of parents who each speak a different native language around children - not such a stretch to think that it can work for dialects. particularly as when the children are older you can tell them when it's more appropriate to use a standard form.

CurrySpice Wed 11-Apr-12 14:34:17

DP and his ex and their 2 kids arrived in England 12 years ago. None of them spoke English.

They all speak fluent English now. The kids speak it with an impeccable English accent (to the extent that you wouldn't know they weren't English). DP and his ex speak English with a strong Dutch accent.

habbibu Wed 11-Apr-12 14:36:52

Nickel, you can also model standard English with story Cds, etc - dd and ds have my dad's old ipod, with loads of audio books on it. They listen to it as they're going to sleep.

Mrskbpw Wed 11-Apr-12 14:38:14

CurrySpice - me too. I was born in Edinburgh but moved to London when I was 7. My Scottish accent barely got a mention at primary school but I was tormented at secondary, so deliberately decided to speak 'Scottish' at home and 'English' at school. Now I just have a London accent (though I can turn on Edinburgh if I need to!). My brother, who was just three when we moved (and is now 34), still has a Scottish accent...

nickelhasababy Wed 11-Apr-12 14:48:02

stories? stooories?! shock
she'll be having none of that nonsense! wink

(sorry, couldn't help it. blushThat is a good plan, actually, get someone else to read the stories to her...)
now, DH is very good at reading stories - he speaks properly when he reads. confused

nickelhasababy Wed 11-Apr-12 14:49:07

there, that's what confuses me. He's a wonderful reader. he reads all the time but he still doesn't understand the grammar.

habbibu Wed 11-Apr-12 14:50:11

It's just a way of getting extra stories in, tbh. Because I am Very Lazy. And dd puts it on when she wakes up, thereby leaving us in peace. She does get some funny turns of phrase, mind.

habbibu Wed 11-Apr-12 14:51:24

He understands it, but doesn't generate it, iyswim? DH reads really difficult German books for work (he's an academic), but really can't speak the language. It's a similar concept for dialect.

CurrySpice Wed 11-Apr-12 14:53:06

Nickel - like everyone else, he uses different "versions" of English, depending on the situation. In a business meeting, I speak differently to how I do to the kids, or in the pub watching footie (*COME ON YOU WOLVES*)

So when he reads he speaks one way. When he's asking you to do something, he knows it's perfectly fine to say quick not quickly wink

Rinkan Wed 11-Apr-12 18:22:33

PimpMyTunnel- you do, erm, realise that you are in Pedants' Corner, don't you? There is no place for that sort of nonsense here wink

IAmSherlocked Wed 11-Apr-12 18:55:18

The best story CDs for this are the Just William CDs read by Martin Jarvis. Richmal Crompton has such a distinctive turn of phrase; it's hilarious to hear DS talk after he's been immersed in William's world for an hour or two grin

forshitsandgiggles Thu 12-Apr-12 00:32:12

Oh my goodness, have just looked at this and am so glad I am not alone in hearing nails on a chalkboard with the sat/sitting thing! I also agree about the Just William thing, 1920s English is the way forward, chums! I absolutely love to watch "Bright Young Things" (amazing film, directed by Stephen Fry) for a couple of hours of immersion into a time of impeccable manners (if not behaviour!) and beautiful language!

Savannahgirl Thu 12-Apr-12 08:20:58

The one thing that strikes me above all else, when thinking about this discussion, is how amazing it is for such a small island to have SO many regional accents.

I suspect, sadly, a few decades from now, it will be very different as the population is now so mobile - will we all have slight variations on just one accent, I wonder?

conantg Wed 05-Sep-12 08:29:39

Thank you, thank you for this post. "Was sat" and "was stood" have been making me scream with impotent fury for several years. I even wrote to the BBC because Charlie Stayt uses these incorrect constructions. He's still doing it.

TudorJess Sat 15-Sep-12 22:45:51

It's northern dialect. But of course, if anyone says it when it's not their dialect, it may be wrong wink

Chrisbassplayer Fri 16-Nov-12 23:08:35

I was listening to the BBC news show "Newsday" the other evening, and presenter Lerato Mbele, a very articulate young South African woman with otherwise impeccable grammar, used the phrase "I was sat". She was not using "sat" as an active verb, as if someone else had "sat" her down. I was stunned, thinking here is a part of speech I am not familiar with, assuming that a BBC presenter would never use poor grammar. Now that I think of it, my bubble was already burst the first time I heard a BBC presenter use the word "Nucular", which is used by otherwise educated conservatives in America, to show solidarity with their Neocon cohorts (Ronald Regan and George W. Bush being notable users of this bastardization. They also both had some basic cognitive disabilities). It is also occasionally the result of a simple slip of the tongue by some. "I was sat" on the other hand, simply seems to be a bad habit, reflecting an incomplete education.

Crikeyblimey Fri 16-Nov-12 23:18:52

IRS not norther dialect. I'm northern and unless someone sat me somewhere, I am sitting. Not dialect - just wrong. Doesn't mean I don't say it occasionally but I do know I'm wrong.

If anyone said "i was sat..." to my dad he would quickly respond with "really? Who sat you there?"

Yappypuppy Sun 10-Mar-13 15:25:34

You wouldn't say" I was drunk" when you really meant "I was drinking" so I can't see why people think" I was sat " is correct unless you had been put there by somebody.

gobbin Tue 02-Apr-13 15:24:39

I'm from Lancashire and, when younger, would say things like "Me and Donna were sat on the swings when..." which would make my (Scots) mum wibble. "It's Donna and I, and you were sitting, not sat!" Big bugbear of hers.

The other one I never knew I did until pointed out at Uni, although not wrong, but very northern was this:

<Friend> "I can't knit."
<Me> "Oh, can you not?"

Friend would've said "Oh, can't you?"

I 'can you not', 'do you not' and 'will you not' all over the place!

Wicklow Wed 17-Apr-13 14:19:03

I live in southern Ireland, I was educated in a Dublin Grammar school, I was then a student of English in Trinity College Dublin (late 80s). Since I was a nipper its always been "I was sitting there" and "I was standing" He was sitting over there . . . . I was sitting over there too, we were standing, they were sitting, we were all sitting over there!

Then in about 1990 when I was teaching in Surrey, I first heard "I was stood over there" from an other primary school teacher of all people! and from that day onwards I have got more and more dumbfounded as to how this appalling trend has gainded ground in thew South of England, possibly through the mediums of TV & Radio?

Not a day goes by now without some highly paid presenter and/or guest on the BBC, ITV, or Sky uttering the awful grammar "I was sat in the front row" or, they were stood at the bus stop, or we were all sat there, they were all sat over there, etc etc etc . . . . .

Oh, it makes my blood boil.

Interestingly, the traditional/standard forms "I was sitting" and "I was standing" are still the norm in Ireland both North & South, and I have yet to hear the new forn of non-standard 'test speak' grammar in Ireland - Thank God.

I guess the teaching of standard English grammar in English schools has sadly been relaxed, for at least a couple of decades . . .

ToffeeWhirl Fri 19-Apr-13 12:52:16

Agree with you, op. It makes me mad. And, as Wicklow points out above, it is becoming common to hear it on radio and TV. I wondered if it was a new linguistic virus.

The other thing that is driving me mad (and I keep seeing it on MN) is people saying 'I might not of', instead of 'have'. Grr.

I tie myself in knots working out if there's any way it could be legitimate.

"At my sister's wedding I was sat next to a dishy accountant" - ok ok seating plan.

Language changes and that's both inexorable and fine. But when changes reduce richness (eg conflating "may" and "might", or "sitting" and "sat") then I think we should fight to keep the useful distinctions.

That said, I think I am alone in fighting to keep the genitive In such phrases as "I really must insist on your arriving earlier next time" or the subjunctive in "He demanded that I be on time on the next occasion." sad

miffybun73 Thu 20-Jun-13 21:57:00

He was sat over there only if someone picked him up and put him down in a sitting position.

It's just wrong, wrong, wrong.

LondonBus Thu 20-Jun-13 22:00:34

I used to work with a teacher who said this.

Drove me fecking insane.

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