Have we discussed the new Coca-Cola ad?

[AgentProvocateur]

"More choice, less calories". Fewer surely?

[OscarWinningActress]

American, perhaps? I think you'd be hard pressed to find an American person that would say 'fewer' instead of 'less'.

[meerschweinchen]

That's horrible. It certainly should
be fewer. Don't they know about countable nouns?!

[meerschweinchen]

Oops, clearly I don't know about the use of spaces. Not sure what happened there!

[AlpacaYourThings]

. I don't understand why it should be fewer rather than less. Can you explain it to me?

[meerschweinchen]

You can count calories, therefore you should use fewer. For things you can't count, you use 'less' eg 'less energy' 'less stress' etc.

Most supermarkets get this wrong though. The 'five items or less' lanes should be 'five items or fewer'.

[AlpacaYourThings]

On right! I didn't know that. I feel stupid. Thank you

[MothershipG]

I know that one is counted but when it comes to it I can never remember which is which, any tips to help fix it in my colander like brain?

[PenelopePitstops]

I was listening to a professor on the radio the other day (wish I could remember exactly when!). He was talking about language and pedantry and in fact the less/ fewer thing doesn't really exist at all.

[Wadingthroughsoup]

Don't feel too bad Alpaca, it's a very common mistake.

I was trying to explain it to my 9 year-old this evening as I was de-lousing her hair. She asked: 'Are there less lice than last time?'. Rather than just answering her question, I saw this as an ideal opportunity to impart some grammatical wisdom.

[Wadingthroughsoup]

Was it Steven Pinker, Penelope? I saw a link to it on FB but haven't read it yet.

[Wadingthroughsoup]

Sorry...listened to it.

[ChippingInLatteLover]

Mother - try to remember 'less milk, fewer apples' :)

[MothershipG]

Thanks Chipping I'll try, but I was hoping for something like the stationary car thingy.

[Icantfindaname]

I remember it using less butter fewer apples.

But also think about much and many. I think that works too?

How much butter. You wouldn't say how many butter.

How many apples, you wouldn't say how much apples.

So where you would use much you say less and where you would say many you use fewer.

Does that work?

[DadDadDad]

This comes up endlessly on Pedants' Corner, and I think people get more worked up about it than they need to. See this thread, for example.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pedants_corner/2187897-School-maths-homework-Am-I-right

A few posts in someone has linked to Oxford Dictionaries which makes an argument that supermarkets' "5 items or less" is not wrong.

[MothershipG]

Ican't If I'm honest that doesn't help at all!! Because then I would have to remember that much corresponds to less and many to fewer, which I find even more confusing!!!

[ChippingInLatteLover]

Mothership

Ok - how about this... you wouldn't say 'fewer milk' would you? So if you can't count it, it's less, if you can, it's fewer :)

[CadmiumRed]

In truth, I think 'fewer' is a sub category of 'less' so you cannot say 'fewer butter' but you can say either 'less apples' or 'fewer apples'.

i.e 'less' is a signifier of all sorts of quantities and the opposite of 'more'. You can say 'more butter' and 'more apples' , for example.

But that 'fewer' refers specifically to numbers so you can say 'fewer apples' but you can't say 'a greater number of butters'. Unless you are referring to butter packs; 'more butter packs'

[Wadingthroughsoup]

Mother, Use the countable/uncountable thing as your guide! Ask yourself if it is something that can be counted.

Can you count: butter, water, milk, air, wine, time?

You wouldn't be able to ask for one or two or ten of any of those things- but you could ask for 'some'. So they're uncountable and therefore fit the 'less' criteria.

Anything you can count (people, frogs, sweets, cars, stones, biscuits....) are countable and therefore would fit the bill for 'fewer'.

However, it seems this may all be irrelevant if Steven Pinker and the Oxford Dictionary linked above are correct!

[Wadingthroughsoup]

Ooops, crossed posts...similar ideas.

[ChippingInLatteLover]

This really does explain it quite well (it's the link DadDadDad was talking about) HERE.

I honestly think english must be so hard to learn, so much of it is just ingrained in us when we start talking. I know I didn't learn this kind of thing at school. Things like this just sound 'right' or 'wrong' to many of us without actually knowing 'why'.

[Amaxapax]

I appreciate the thread has moved on, but I'm American and I would say 'fewer'. I know quite a few Americans who would. I know quite a few Brits who would say 'less'. Interestingly, the bastardisation of the English language is not entirely down to my people.

[Wadingthroughsoup]

Chipping, I agree that much of it is instinctive- it just sounds right or wrong.

Just had another thought about the examples above. It looks as though the countable nouns are plurals when used with more- more apples/children/cakes/frogs....

Whereas the uncountable nouns don't have plurals- more air/time/butter/milk/water...

Is that a good rule? Will see if I can think of any exceptions.

[DunedinSunshine]

I'm another American who would say "fewer." There are actually quite a large number of us who understand the distinction and observe it.

[HeartsTrumpDiamonds]

Canadian here. I know the distinction too!