Giving baby water

(93 Posts)
Bankholidaybaby Thu 05-Dec-13 22:47:34

I've been advised to give my 14-week old son cooled, boiled water, but I'm not sure how much, how often and how to prepare it. Should I just boil our hard tap water in my scale-ridden kettle and put that in a bottle, or would you suggest mineral/distilled/filtered water, a separate kettle etc.?

Thanks for any opinions/information.

SecretSantaFix Thu 05-Dec-13 22:49:40

It is not necessary except when the outside temperature is very hot.

It may only be ok if it is very hot, but in this sort of weather all of his liquid intake should be nourishing and have calories.

TheBreastmilksOnMe Thu 05-Dec-13 22:50:59

If you are breastfeeding on demand then you don't need to give water but if you are ff then I think you only need to give them extra water when it's hot. You will need to boil ordinary tap water in a kettle, allow it to cool then put it into a sterile bottle.Never give a baby mineral water!

bundaberg Thu 05-Dec-13 22:54:33

is he breast or formula fed? if breast then there is no reason to give water at all

if formula then they occasionally need some, but more when it's very hot weather or if they're constipated... they shouldn't need it routinely

if you do give it, normal boiled water is fine. don't use mineral water

Bunbaker Thu 05-Dec-13 22:56:24

I agree with the replies on here.

Who has advised you to give your baby water?

emblosion Thu 05-Dec-13 23:20:34

My ds1 used to get v constipated and I used to boil and cool around 2oz of tap water and offer him sips throughout the day. He rarely drank it all.

If you're boiling it normal tap water should be fine, or maybe filtered if you normally use that. I don't think you should use mineral water fir babies because of the higher concentration of sslts/trace metals.

Bankholidaybaby Thu 05-Dec-13 23:38:15

Several people have suggested it over the last six weeks or so: Health Visitors, Community Nurse, my mum, his paediatric consultant, and today, his GP.

He was born at 33 weeks 14 weeks ago and is pretty healthy but is piling pounds on (following the 91st centile line for his corrected age very nicely but had a jump from 75th to 91st about six weeks ago) and the health visitor and his consultant have told me to try to limit his intake because his weight gain is too rapid and some colic and tummy troubles he's having could be down to over feeding. When they first told me this, about six weeks ago, I dutifully tried for four very stressful days. My baby went crackers and begged for more food. After a long chat with a friend and a visit to the gp I decided to go back to giving him what he seemed to want. Gp thinks he's fine, that as long as he follows his line it's no problem, and points out the height of my husband (6ft 3) and that I'm hardly short.

Anyway, had a second follow-up with paed on Friday, got the same instruction and tried again to lower his volume. Went crackers again, so after another gp visit I'm resolved to keep an eye on it without going as far as the consultant says. Gp asked me if I give him water, and I said I had been thinking about it this week and would give it a go.

Baby never got the hang of latching on, despite 13 weeks of trying with the assistance of bf counsellors, support groups, nipple shields, weeks of breast/bottle/pump cycles and so on and so on, so we're now, as of the end of last month, entirely on formula. It's the ready to feed kind, hence never having to think about kettles and so on before.

Anyway,

SecretSantaFix Thu 05-Dec-13 23:44:00

Have you tried switching to a hungry baby formula instead?

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 00:04:38

I was under the impression that hungry baby, follow on and goodnight milks were marketing ploys?

I've just changed from cow and gate to aptamil in the hope of relieving some of his griping pains. He's definitely become less flatulent overnight having done that (he had attacks of the trumps twice after each feed, and they always wake him up), but still won't settle in his basket and seems in pain 90mins after each feed. He used to regurgitate a lot and often seemed to be swallowing something disgusting, but now we get the odd wet burp with a feed, and a little spill at some point over the following 60-90 mins.

ZuleikaD Fri 06-Dec-13 09:02:49

Yes, hungry baby formula is just marketing guff.

Boiled normal tap water that has been allowed to cool. You should never give a baby mineral water and especially not mineral water that's been boiled because it's got too many salts for them already and boiling it intensifies them.

BarberryRicePud Fri 06-Dec-13 09:22:52

Obviously i can't comment on your babys weight but just to perhaps reassure...
DS was born at 42weeks. 6lb10 so 2-9 centile. Rapidly went up to 50th ebf. On weaning + formula he went up to 91-98th where he has remained. He's a lanky 3.6yo over 98th for height.

So IME it can be v normal to jump centiles.

If you're worried why not add an extra ounce of boiled, cooled water to his formula for each bottle?

caketinrosie Fri 06-Dec-13 09:32:28

Bank you can buy bottles of ready done baby water if you are worried, I used them with both mine they were fine. I have always given both dc's water and I breastfed both. It's not to replace meals but is in addition, just a couple of ounces is fine and after a while baby will naturally drink slightly less formula but still have a full tum so no narky baby. Tbh go with your gut feeling, it worked for me but won't work for everyone. The charts should always be seen as a guide so if they don't fit you're baby, balls to them! grin don't worry too much! that's the last thing a new mum needs x thanks

bundaberg Fri 06-Dec-13 12:36:37

bank I think if I were in your situation I would continue to give him what he's asking for tbh;
if he's following a line, and you and his dad are both tall then I honestly wouldn't worry.

someone has to be on the higher centiles, it's all within "normal" range. sometimes I think that HCP's feel that all babies should aim for the 50th and be right in the middle which is, quite frankly, stupid!
I just see so many tales on here of people being told to feed their low-centile baby more, or feed their high-centile baby less. it makes no sense

ultimately your baby is the only one who knows if he's hungry or not, and I honestly think there are dangers in not letting him self-regulate.

what centile is he on for height? is there a big discrepancy? would you be concerned if other people hadn't brought it up?

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 16:01:10

He's now seeming to ask for more than ever before sad he's 6kg (about 13 and a half pounds) and I'm taking the bottle away at 165-180 ml with him still smacking his lips. He seems to want this every 3-4 hours apart from an occasional longer stretch in the early morning, but even the frequency is complicated, because he almost never wakes/cries for food when he's being held - he could go hours and hours, but the second I put him down he's bleating to be fed. I have slept with him on my chest (bad, I know) for 8-9 hours and nothing, whereas if I do manage to settle him in his basket (tricky), he'll go no more than 5. The same thing happens all day with him in my arms or a sling - I have to put him down to trigger a request for food or he would sleep all day.

The consultant told me to limit him to 900mls a day.

Bunbaker Fri 06-Dec-13 16:42:24

He might be going through a growth spurt right now. They never seem to be satisfied when that is happening.

bundaberg Fri 06-Dec-13 17:06:30

my breastfed baby hit 9kg at 5.5 months.

some babies are just big! he fed all the time.

i honestly wouldn't worry about it. at 14 weeks to be going 4 hours or more between feeds is really good!

just think, if you were breastfeeding you would have no idea how much he was taking, you'd have to trust him to regulate it and I honestly believe the same applies here. if he is following a line that's fine! i can't imagine why they would want him to go down the centiles confused

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 18:43:10

He's just drained a bottle which had a whole 200ml carton in it! If this is a growth spurt, which did cross my mind, how long should it last, and will he come out of it wanting 200ml every time?

He only goes 4 hours because I'm carrying him around for most of his naps, and that stops him crying for food. I have to take him out of the carrier and put him down to get an instant: aargh! Feed me! This happens almost whenever I put him down. I've experimented with different gaps between feeds to see if it changes how much he wants, but it doesn't seem to make much difference.

I just feel like his feeding is all over the place and I don't know what to do for the best.

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 18:45:01

Caketinrosie - where do you get the water from, please? I tried to find the cow and gate water we used for topping and tailing in hospital, but no luck sad

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 18:46:49

He hasn't been measured for ages but the last time, which was when he was 7weeks actual and term corrected, he was 51cm. I don't know what centile that is for a newborn.

nancerama Fri 06-Dec-13 18:55:17

There's no need to waste money on special "baby water". Plain old cooled, boiled water is fine. If you're concerned about the quality of your water, a Brita filter jug will remove some of the harmless impurities.

There is no proof that there is any benefit in giving water to a baby under 6 months, but it won't do any harm either. In your shoes, I would offer water, but not worry if he doesn't take it.

You could try switching to the slowest flow teats you can find to help him regulate the volume he takes in at each feed. If he's drinking quickly he could be getting uncomfortable because he's taking in slightly more than he needs, but not registering that he feels full until it's slightly too late.

Ultimately, do what feels right to you. The professionals aren't the ones with your baby every day. You know him best.

BarberryRicePud Fri 06-Dec-13 19:10:30

If he's crying every time you put him down it's not just hunger. It may just be comfort. Have you tried a dummy?

the general rule of thumb is 2.5 - 2.7oz per lb of body weight so in your case that would be roughly between 32.5 (13 x 2.5) and 35 (13 x 2.7) oz per day which is 975 - 1050mls (if you count an oz as 30mls).

I dont think you need to limit milk. I tended to add an extra oz when my lo's consistently drained their bottle.

p.s. I did use hungry milk from around that age and it did seem to make ds more settled between feeds. It is more casein based than first milk and may make them feel fuller for longer

Newmum0113 Fri 06-Dec-13 19:30:55

Hi op

I've been in the same position - lots of people including many contradicting health visitors, advising in the for and against giving water to my DD, currently 8 weeks old. We tried it and she likes it, she sometimes has some between feeds when she's hungry after 2 hours. It helps her go to 3.5 to 4 hours between feeds.

I wanted to jump on this thread and ask as well, because DH wants to give DD a farley's rusk in her 11pm at night to help her go through the night without waking. Mum and mum in law both did this with all 5 of their children, and I know other people have done it.

What's the opinion of the mumsnet crowd? TIA.

bundaberg Fri 06-Dec-13 19:32:25

rusks at 8 weeks? no!
and in a bottle? definitely not!

ilovesmurfs Fri 06-Dec-13 19:34:46

God no dont t a rusk in a bottle! Its a choking risk for a start!

At eight weeks she is not old enough to be weaned.

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 19:41:25

Yes, I use a dummy to help him to sleep. A typical cycle until recently was: feed until he doesn't seem to want any more, wind, play, nap with dummy. He's had weeks when I could put him down for naps and he'd wake every 3-4 hours, and weeks when he hasn't tolerated being put down and I've had to hold/carry him and put him down at roughly the time I expect him to be hungry to provoke a request for food. We're in one of the carry/hold periods now. I was fine with him eating a bit more than the doctor recommended, because it was still within the 150-200ml per kg per day, just on the upper end. Now he's suddenly taking heaps and doesn't seem satisfied afterwards. My husband keeps telling me I'm making him fat and he'll be porky when he's older. When he was tiny (and no longer being tube fed), and until he was about 8 weeks, I had to wake him for every single feed, and for a long time, it was a massive battle to keep him awake to eat at all. I was, following nurses' advice, sticking my nipple/a teat in his face and begging him to suck. I'd keep going until he'd gone for 'long enough' or had 'enough' from the bottle and now I think I may have caused him to get too big, too fast and to not know when to stop sad I'm really confused and upset. I just wish breastfeeding had worked as then he would have just taken what he wanted without all this angst (and the flipping bottle washing and all the rest of it). Oh I've gone and got myself all weepy. I don't know what to do.

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Fri 06-Dec-13 19:43:30

Can I ask a stupid question why are people saying they want babies to go longer than 3/4 hrs between feeds. My ds eats every 3 hrs like clock work and has done from 12 weeks, he's 20 weeks now, that's what he wants to do, so i let him.
why are people trying to stretch it and filling babies up with water, I really don't understand this.

bundaberg Fri 06-Dec-13 19:45:54

oh don't cry sad it's hard work knowing what to do for babies and children sometimes.

have you seen what happens if you don't put him down to provoke a food request? i mean, just carry him and let him naturally ask?

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 19:49:19

I haven't got much idea what he wants to do because he won't settle long enough at the moment in his basket or carrycot for him to wake up and ask for food iyswim, and he doesn't wake to eat when he's being held. I try to stretch him out to 4 hours if he had an amount at the last feed which should see him that long. If I fed him every three hours, he'd still take the same amount (I've tried this, as well as every 2.5 hours).

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Fri 06-Dec-13 19:58:17

Ok, fair enough at 14 weeks my ds did the same as he does now bar having slightly more milk, he had bottles of 150 mls had 3 naps a day which last 45 mins and went to bed at 7, woke up once in the night for a full bottle went back to sleep and then started the same thing again the next day.
Is he constantly crying and mouthing for food?

Teaandflapjacks Fri 06-Dec-13 19:59:53

I will hopefully re-assure you. Mine is 15 weeks on sunday - a girl. My husband is 6ft 4. I am a foot shorter grin my baby was 2 weeks overdue and 8 1/2 lbs at birth, and 52 cm. Now she is 66cm and between 7-8 kilo (roughly, I stood on the scale then picked her up so its not an exact science). Anyway, I live in germany and over here the advice is the following:-

DO give babies tea/cooled water, sometimes they are just thirsty. I know this is true with my daughter as sometimes I go to give her milk, she makes a right fuss, is offered cooled, very weak fennel tea (helps her tummy) and she loves that.

Babies are weaned at 16 weeks on here - if you want to that is.

There is NO SUCH THING as a FAT BABY - I was told this repeatedly by every health professional I have come across since mine is a very hungry little thing. I tried to go onto a 4 hour routine and it nearly killed me. Now she has what she wants, when she wants. Sometimes that is 100ml, sometimes its 200ml, although since weaning with rice then now less....

We have started weaning - with baby rice, and a bit of fruit puree like apple, and formula. She loves this - we did this under medical advice here, as she started to want over 200mls sometimes and would cry desperately for it. I was worried its too much for het in one go. She is genuinely much happier on this baby rice, formula and a bit of fruit combo. She has this twice a day now - roughly midday, roughly tea time. She has milk in the morning, mid morning, afternoon and last bottle before bed. She very occasionally wakes for some - maybe once a week at 4am - I think its more her nappy has bothered her and she wants a bit of mil to get back to sleep then. The latest research says weaning before 6 months is actually better. Some babies aren't ready I know - but mine is happier on this, and her bottle intake has dropped right down - she never wants more than 150ml now TBH. As food for thought, as it were, mine is already cutting her first tooth, like my husband did early too. This leads me to think that her body is just at that stage.

A final thought - babies are programmed to survive - that means to eat. Honestly unless you wean on maccy d's they just lose it all when they start crawling and walking. A fat toddler - yes that is possible, but a fat baby is nonsense and I am furious for you medical professionals are effectively telling you starve your child, there by affecting your loving relationship together too - as he sees you as his source of food and love. It beggers belief! angry

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Fri 06-Dec-13 20:00:08

And tell your husband to be quiet about a chubby baby makes fat adults. The 2 biggest baby girls I've ever seen as in braking buggies due to weight are both incredibly slim adults.

Teaandflapjacks Fri 06-Dec-13 20:03:37

I should add mine is in clothes for 6-9 month old. My niece and nephew were similar (both EBF) and as toddlers it all fell off once they started crawling and walking. IMO she is very healthy, has a chubby face but is quite tall. I am glad, I have had friends who had a terrible time with underweight babies, and fraught times feeding. I think that is worse really - at least I know she has a few reserves! Also I am healthy weight - size 10, 9 1/2 stone etc, husband also ok weight.

Teaandflapjacks Fri 06-Dec-13 20:04:20

yellowsnownoteatwillyou well said

clairikins Fri 06-Dec-13 20:06:25

Hungry milk is a marketing ploy. You should not have to give a child water until they are wean. Whether or not they are breastfeed or formula. The health professionals are talking out of their backside.

Teaandflapjacks Fri 06-Dec-13 20:06:38

Also i see that he was prem - actually I know of two prem babies in my circle who were very chubby babies by the end - I don't know if its their bodies trying to protect them - this is my opinion- they are both now very healthy, trim toddlers (if that makes sense!)

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 20:19:13

If I take the bottle away, he smacks his lips and sometimes cries in horror. If we start playing he forgets, though, and seems fine? I'm so unbelievably confused.

The suggestion is that he might be comfort eating because of tummy ache.

He fell asleep straight after his massive 200ml feed at 5.30. He's now strapped to me in a carrier with a dummy. I could just see what happens - usually I take him out of the carrier at 3-4 hours depending on what he had last time. He usually then starts mouthing and crying almost immediately and takes the bottle like he thought he'd never see it again. I could just leave him and see what happens, but I worry that the dummy and cuddle will stop him from realising he needs food? As I've said, he'll miss one or two feeds at night if he's co-sleeping, and I wake up, panic, run and get a bottle whilst he gets more and more agitated. Oh, I don't know sad

I just feel like I'm cocking everything up. I almost wish I had a nurse or doctor here the whole time like in SCBU to tell me what to do sad

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Fri 06-Dec-13 20:19:56

Thanks tea, I am getting rage with constantly reading about couple with their first baby and " my husband says..."
Is your husband some sort of baby expert? If he's a sahd then that's slightly different but woman who are being told to put their babies in their own room as their husband say they will sleep thru if that happens, feed them more/ less. When I'm presuming these woman spend hours alone with these babies so will more than likely know a bit more.
Maybe a bit of a out there view but really annoys me just now.

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 20:24:30

My mum looked after him whilst my husband and I went out for my birthday last week, and she said shed held him for ages but really wanted a cup of tea so she'd managed to get him to nap for 45mins but that he'd woken up 2.5 hours after a big feed 'clearly expecting to be fed and about to be put off'. She's had four children, all ff from day one.

Newmum0113 Fri 06-Dec-13 20:28:14

Not really a choking risk as the rusk is fully dissolved I the bottle and any larger parts wouldn't for through the teat anyway.

teaandflapjacks what age did you start weaning please? I'm curious as they do this in Turkey too where my dad is from.

As for the person asking why we want them to go longer between feeds - it's what we are being told to do by health professionals.

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 20:29:37

Yellowsnow I completely agree with you about husbands: mine is less knowledgable than I am (he's an only child with no cousins and our son is only the second baby he's held vs me with three siblings, two of whom are 10 and 11 years younger, a mother who was a childminder when those two were little, and about a million cousins) but keeps making all these authoritative statements like: I don't believe in rooting. He needs to learn that I want doesn't always get. Why not let him cry and see what happens?

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Fri 06-Dec-13 20:30:45

My ds sometimes does this, has a little bit of his bottle then will finish it about 30 mins later.
He's a little person not just a baby, with his own thoughts and feelings about things.
Just go with them, imagine someone making you eat or sleep during the day when you didn't want to, I am aware I'm lucky that my ds sleeps 11 hrs at night but not all the time, sometimes he wakes up for food or just a pat, but I just go with, all things are stages they don't stay the same forever, but can feel like it.

Mutley77 Fri 06-Dec-13 20:34:19

Please don't worry. I have had v similar issues with all three of my kids (oldest 9yo, youngest 6mo).

None premature but all really bad feeders, Bf never properly established and told by health care profs to wake for feeds in early days. With dc3 she was tube fed for first 2 days as couldn't get enough into her, dropping blood sugars etc . same as you I believe this resulted in them "needing" to be fed extremely regularly and have never got any of then going more re than three hourly during day until established on solids, but I have had longer gaps at night. All ff from early on as couldn't cope with expressing exclusively.

Anyway all my kids jumped to top of charts (or sometimes slightly over) for weight. Dc1 is now one of the skinniest 9 year old I've ever seen although perfectly healthy, eats normally and on the tall side, dc2 is medium height and slim to normal build. Dc3 only 6 months and v chubby, I no longer get her weighed as hate the "looks" I get and refuse to try and put her on a diet or feed anything other than on demand. She's been on fruit and baby rice for about 2 weeks and her milk intake is dropping. I am confident she will slim down like her siblings.

I've never given water to my kids and really don't think it's necessary but if it does work and your baby isn't distressed by stretching out between milk feeds then it probably won't do any harm. Please don't worry, your baby won't end up being fat. This feeding cycle is actually more common than you think as it is important to keep newborns hydrated and nourished hence advice to wake for feeds which can result in them demanding food more often. Much better that, even if they do put on "too much weight" to start with, than a dehydrated baby where the outcome can be death as in a v sad case I heard of recently.

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Fri 06-Dec-13 20:42:08

Bank, I just read your last post to my only child husband, who also hasn't held a baby apart from ds.
He made a wtf face, and is horrified by your husbands statement. I feel sorry for you, that must be so difficult to listen to when you are already stressed about it.
But babies can't really over eat at that age or they will just be sick, they only have teeny tummies.
When you say he doesn't settle when you put him down does he writh about?do you think he has silent reflux and is drinking to sooth the heart burn ?
Or he may just be a wee chunk and likes his milk, my ds is big for his age loads of people think he's about 9 months when he's only just 5 months, my dh is taller than yours and I'm not short either.

Mutley77 Fri 06-Dec-13 20:44:03

Sorry when I say I've never given my kids water I have obviously, once they started solids! But in a cup and only offered with meals to start with.

Teaandflapjacks Fri 06-Dec-13 20:52:13

On dear, babies cant think consciously at this stage. I would ask your husband to study how brains develop and explain how a 14 week old without a developed hippocampus can think?! Babies work on instinct only at this stage. They are born early in their development cycle than other primates because they need to adapt to their environment (language etc), and also because were walk so our pelvic bones narrowed accordingly. A good book is this one - 'Why Love Matters: How Affection Shapes a Baby's Brain ' it should explain all of this to your husband better than I can. Rooting is very natural.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000OT7Z1Y/ref=oh_d__o03_details_o03__i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

all that happens if you ignore his cues is he gets very distressed that his caregiver (you) are ignoring his pleas. And its distressing for you too. Mine sometimes fiddles, than 15 mins later is really hungry. I often lie with mine during the day for her naps - soon i wont be able to do this but right now I love it, lying next to get, holding her hand and listening to her little sighs.

Your husband is being a total plonker.

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 20:54:50

Yellowsnow, when I put him down, even when I think I've nailed the floppy arm, dead to the world sleep phase, he cries within minutes like I've abandoned him. If I do get him to settle, he has attacks of the trumps/griping pains almost exactly 90mins after a feed, which wake him up and make him very sad.

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 20:57:01

And yes, he does have reflux both spilly and silent, but the spills have become fewer and fewer. The gp promises he'll grow out of all of this.

Teaandflapjacks Fri 06-Dec-13 20:59:23

Newmum0113 I started at 13 weeks ish nearly 14- she is two weeks over due though so 15, nearly 16 weeks really. I did this with the go ahead of 4 doctors, including a paediatric expert. Now this does sound to people in England very early, but honestly in Germany, or certainly where I live, it is considered quite normal, as its giving babies cooled tea/water etc. It is funny how advice varies widely between countries!!

I will be holding off with anything else though for a while, and think other veg, and meat, and wheat etc etc until later on because I think this is harder to digest and she doesn't need it yet. The baby rice/formula/fruit combo is working really well. I will look to introduce carrots next.

I should add that if she was not drinking the amount she was, and the size she is, I would have waited to 16 weeks fully, but she was ready, we tried, she loved it, and we went for it.

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Fri 06-Dec-13 21:01:45

Have you tried warming where ever you are putting him as the temp could be waking him up? Or being flat where if it was a kind of reflux situation if he was flat that would get him after a while. I only put my ds flat at night as during the day he sleeps in a bean bag with a blanket over it, might be worth a try,maybe even let him lie on a t shirt you have worn.
Somebody mentioned further up about different teats, as in flow as could be too fast or slow for him.

Teaandflapjacks Fri 06-Dec-13 21:02:52

have you tried any of the following to help:-

white noise app
cherry stone cushion on tummy (mine has one every night as part of night time routine now, helps any trapped wind etc)
fennel tea to make up the formula with (the only thing that got rid of her awful colic - infacol useless!)
cumin oil as a tummy massage
bath as a last resort to release trapped wind and calm down

Teaandflapjacks Fri 06-Dec-13 21:05:34

yellowsnownoteatwillyou is speaking an awful lot of sense - feeding position might be key. sometimes mine would only feed flat on back, but where she sleeps she is slightly propped up with a folded town under the head bit of her mattress. I also leave a scarf/top near where she sleeps (safely tucked up so it doesn't harm her) and I think this helps. I also make sure there is fresh air in the room- sometimes they can be too hot?

caketinrosie Fri 06-Dec-13 21:13:05

Hi bank, I bought btld water from boots in the baby food section only out if laziness and convenience, but cooked boiled is fine. My dd was 9lb 3 born my ds 10lb 2. I know, enormous! fshock the pair of them didn't stop eating I was latched on almost permanently! They never came close to fitting the standard charts but I didn't really care tbh. I started weaning at 12 weeks which will no doubt evoke shock and horror and flames of fire my way, but frankly I trusted my gut, midwives were happy, sleeping became more regular and it all worked out just fine in the end. You will be fine, it sounds like you are doing a fine job!. grin

caketinrosie Fri 06-Dec-13 21:15:53

I also concur with the raising of mattress on one end and check the house is not too warm smile

Teaandflapjacks Fri 06-Dec-13 21:22:58

caketinrosie thats my opinion too. OP - trust your gut, you cant go to wrong with that. I also have her sleeping in her own room (which will no doubt shock some people too) but none of us got any sleep. She is right next door, with the angel care monitor and most night she sleeps right through and has done for weeks now - before it was very broken for all of us. The room is roughly 19 degrees - sometimes 20.

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Fri 06-Dec-13 21:29:28

Yeah bank i second or third ...trust your own instincts, try not to doubt yourself. Every baby is different as they are just little people, they are learning what makes them happy and so are you. And all stages pass, what works for some people might not for others, try things and see how you get on, stay strong. You are doing a fantastic job smile

JRmumma Fri 06-Dec-13 21:30:47

Think you should talk to your doctor about reflux medication and also the possibility of cows milk protein allergy ad the two often go hand in hand and can cause discomfort/wind.

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 22:19:29

He's been on infant gaviscon off and on for a month (off at the moment - I'm giving the change to aptamil a week until I mess with it). I'm using anti colic bottles. Was using size 1 teat but have been trying size 2 today - maybe that's why he's suddenly eating craploads? It seems to have brought the trumps back.

Things that haven't worked:
Infacol
Gripe water

Things that helped
Gaviscon with the Cow and Gate
Feeding upright
Massage for the trumps
Anti colic bottles
Warming basket before putting him down - will try this again - can't remember why I stopped
Carrying in sling

Not sure if they helped:
Raising head of basket (not doing this at the moment)
Holding upright for 30 mins after feed - he's often still a bit sick and it just eats into his 2-4 60-90min awake times every day.

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 22:24:31

Oh, and I have a white noise setting on my radio which I use a lot. I used to think it was magical but it doesn't always work now.

And the groegg says it's 19 degrees but the monitor says 21. Either way it should be comfortable?

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 22:30:29

And tea, I know my husband is being a plonker - it really, really upset me at first but now I mainly ignore him. I've explained again and again that the baby doesn't know how to be manipulative and just wants love and food, but he's convinced it's possible to train it out of him. He says I'm just guessing when I say the baby is tired or hungry or whatever and that I don't really have a clue. Which is helpful.

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 22:33:58

I was thinking a lot about weaning yesterday. I can't do it yet as he can't sit up (his head control is still very unreliable, too) but they told me at the hospital that it's often recommended to wean prem babies early because they lose out on nutrients in utero. Also I swear my son was looking at my sandwich yesterday and smacking his lips, and seemed pretty interested in me eating a biscuit the day before. I might be imagining it...

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Fri 06-Dec-13 22:55:57

They do start to stare and copy you eating from 3 months, ds at 20 weeks stares during every meal I have a chews, he was nearly away with a bite of my sandwich I was eating today while holding himgrin
Early weaning as in 4 months + is sometimes recommended especially with reflux, as long as you stick to fruits and veg puréed, it may work for you.
I'm trying to hold out, but will admit to letting ds lick the odd thing from about 4 months, last thing was home made sorbet ( bad mummy) but a very excited face baby, with tongue out for more, he was denied and distracted. We are talking a minuscule amount, I felt bad the o ly thing he had tasted apart from milk was the rotor virus vac and calpol.

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Fri 06-Dec-13 22:57:18

Also bank you sound like you are doing really well and trying everything you can, its a hard road but you will find a solution soon. grin

Bankholidaybaby Fri 06-Dec-13 23:03:53

Thanks, everyone, it's just hard to know what to do. He seems to have put on almost, but not quite, a pound a week since we left hospital, and I've just today started putting him in 3-6month clothes, when he's not quite 8 weeks corrected age. I wasn't expecting to be doing that until January.

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Fri 06-Dec-13 23:16:54

Ds was only a week early and was in 3-6 month suits at about 8 weeks, he's been in 6-9 trousers for about a month but still 3-6 month tops, all I seem to do is sort thru clothes.
I'm hoping it slows down eventually, my mil laughed at this as the speed dh grew was almost the same.
Big strapping boys that will look after their mums is what I've been told to look forward too. grin

Bankholidaybaby Sat 07-Dec-13 01:57:11

I hope this is a growth spurt because he just had 230ml with the full dose of gaviscon and is currently getting cross with a dummy for not having milk in it. That makes 6 feeds today, 4 of 180, 1 of 200, 1 of 230, none finished to his satisfaction sad and he may yet want another before morning.

Bankholidaybaby Sat 07-Dec-13 01:57:33

Oh god he's going mental and purple with rage.

BarberryRicePud Sat 07-Dec-13 06:45:34

Just add some cooled boiled water to the bottle if it's worrying you.

maybe gaviscon is not very effective for him. There are other meds that can be used that may help of it is reflux.

You arent supposed to add extra water to formula so if you do give water give it separately.

Bankholidaybaby Sat 07-Dec-13 09:19:03

This morning, I gave him 180ml of a 230ml bottle of aptamil with gaviscon, then washed and changed nappy. He was still fidgeting for more, so I tried the water - he took all 90ml from the bottle, then cried and had another 10-20 (it's hard to tell on these bottles) of milk. Now he's got a dummy but doesn't seem satisfied.

He doesn't appear to have regurgitated any of what he had last night.

If this is a growth spurt, will he come out of it always wanting over 200ml or will it settle at a lower amount until the next one? If it's not a growth spurt, am I just stretching his tummy by giving all this milk and water?

90mls is an awful lot of water. At that age I would limit to 1-2oz once or twice a day. Too much water is not good for babies

nancerama Sat 07-Dec-13 09:34:14

My breastfed DS was in 3-6 month clothes by 8 weeks. He's now 2 1/2 and still in 18-24 month clothes. A big baby does not necessarily a huge toddler make.

I have no clue how much he ate - if in doubt boob out was my motto. I was reprimanded a few times by "professionals" for breastfeeding because I couldn't tell them exactly how much was going in. Having read your thread, I'm glad I couldn't tell them.

If the boy is hungry, feed him. You're doing great.

The first 3 or 4 months are tough. Babies change so much, there is very little pattern or predictability, and I'm amazed that doctors, midwives and health visitors think there is a pattern to aim for.

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Sat 07-Dec-13 10:59:30

As a guess the milk is soothing the heartburn rather than just being starving. So maybe try different stuff for reflux. I only know babies that were breast fed that had reflux and they just fed constantly at this age.
I would just feed him when he wants it and not bother with water as that does seem like loads.
What bottles are you using?

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Sat 07-Dec-13 11:03:33

just remembered my friend baby who is ff, at this age fed every 2 hrs morning and night! Bad reflux.
He's nearly 6 months now and sleeps pretty well and feeds every 3/4 hrs. She has done early weaning thou.

aptamil even does an anti-reflux formula that is thickened to help it stay down. Could that be an option for you?

JRmumma Sat 07-Dec-13 11:42:38

Sounds like reflux to me, eating to soothe the pain. Ask to see a paediatrician as he may benefit from other meds not just Gaviscon. My LO has reflux and he doesn't have Gaviscon as it makes him constipated, but he is on ranitidine and domperidone which has stopped the screaming after bottles.

ShreddedHoops Sat 07-Dec-13 11:54:57

If you give water, please don't give a full bottle, only sips - an ounce or so at a time. It's really not good for their bodies to process lots of water at once, upsets their salt balance or summat, can't remember exactly what but it's the same reason you mustn't ever change the ratio of water to powder when making up formula.

But if it was me I'd just keep giving milk. Totally agree with poster above who says there's no such thing as a fat baby. It really does fall off them once they're weaned and crawling / walking.

Bunbaker Sat 07-Dec-13 13:07:49

"Totally agree with poster above who says there's no such thing as a fat baby."

Erm, there is. In the nearest town, which has a large obese population, there are lots of fat babies. Not just chubby and cuddly, but hideously fat.

ZuleikaD Sat 07-Dec-13 15:42:29

Bun is right. It's true you can't overfeed a breastfed baby, but you really can with formula - a friend of mine had a terribly obese baby because she was shovelling formula in. This baby had fat in places you really don't see fat on babies - not just thighs and chin but weird, wobbling pads above its shoulder blades. She had to dial it back before it became a serious problem.

This is only in passing, because nothing you've said indicates otherwise, but it's important to remember that babies need to be cuddled a lot more than they need to be fed - some babies end up eating more than they should because when they're eating is the only time they're held. It sets up an association between food and love. You could try him in a sling which might help with the reflux too.

Bankholidaybaby Sat 07-Dec-13 18:22:47

I'll hold off on the water and I'll talk to the doctors about the reflux on Monday. They agree he has it but keep promising me he'll grow out of it. He's always eaten a lot but he seems to have gone a bit crazy in the last day - possibly because he's having a growth spurt, possibly because I changed to a size 2 teat, or maybe in reaction to me trying to cut him back the few days beforehand?

I pretty much hold or wear him 24 hours a day, apart from some nights when I manage to have him in his basket, me on the floor on a duvet and my hand ready to lay on his tummy if he's sad, and the odd 15 mins when he's happy to play in his chair in the bathroom whilst I have a shower and dress etc. (he won't settle asleep long enough for me to wait until then).

Today, he had the mega milk and water blowout at 8, then went to sleep at 9.30. I lay down with him and had my arm under his head but wasn't holding him. Usually I will disturb him after 3 or 4 hours to make sure he gets milk, but today I decided to see what happened whilst not letting him go more than six hours without food. At 1.30pm I really needed my arm back so I eased it out but he woke and demanded to be fed. After that feed, he went to sleep straight away, so this time I lay next to him without my arm underneath. At 5pm I gently shifted my position and he woke wanting food. He had a quick play just now but is currently snuggled with his head in the crook of my arm and a dummy, going to sleep again. Maybe he wants cuddles and to be near me so much that it overrides his need for food? From what I've read, babies with reflux problems are often very cuddly.

Bankholidaybaby Sat 07-Dec-13 18:24:08

Oh, and we're on Mam anti colic bottles having previously tried Dr Brown, Avent and Nuk.

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Sat 07-Dec-13 18:43:01

You are doing fantastic!
big sleeps with out you right beside him will come, it won't be forever. But does feel like it.
Any baby with reflux I've met, does tend to be very cuddly.
I would totally try a bean bag with a top that smells of you in it as he won't be totally flat, and its quite snugly. They aren't that expensive and has been a life saver for me. I'm slightly concerned about what to do when he grows out of it.

ScaredToBeHonest Sun 08-Dec-13 11:30:14

Like someone else has said, sounds like he could be feeding all the time to ease the pain of reflux. It's all very well the GP saying he'll grow out of it but your DS is in pain, you're having a difficult time and the docs are moaning at you for feeding him too much. They need to do something about it rather than fob you off with "he'll grow out of it."

Good luck op

Teaandflapjacks Sun 08-Dec-13 14:36:30

I stand by what i said, it is nonsense to call a baby fat, you cant over feed them by using a sensible approach and checking others reasons why upset and then looking at food - and working on a rough 3-4 hour feeding basis. Also when you learn your babies cries you can figure out what they want fairly easily (her nappy change cry is different to a stomac h ache cry etc). I cant comment on shovelling formula into a baby as I have not met anyone who would do that shock I have seen some pretty chunky breast fed babies too, some babies are just like that. You only need to look at this after the walking into toddler phase.

However it is true sometimes if they have tummy pain they cant distinguish between the two and try to feed to relieve the pain. The docs can give you better stuff for reflux if that is the issue. Small question but I don't think you need to worry about them going for 6 hours without food - mine regularly goes for 11 - 12 hours overnight now with no food. I would not wake her to give her anything. Does he know night/day (as in are you getting the longer stretches at night?).

I know it seems a lot of time to spend like you are doing - I spend a lot of time cuddling mine and playing together - I pretty much give my day over to her and get on with jobs here and there when she naps. But in a few months they amuse themselves better - like you, I can get 20 mins now on the playmat, or in her vibrating chair bouncer thing. Its an obvious point have you tried getting out to groups and at least having a coffee with other mums? Mine gets distracted by the other babies and it tend to tire her out for me later on.

I think you are doing amazingly well - the crying and rooting for food when you worry you are doing the wrong this can be soul destroying.

Teaandflapjacks Sun 08-Dec-13 14:36:49

wrong thing! not wrong this

Bunbaker Sun 08-Dec-13 15:24:27

"I stand by what i said, it is nonsense to call a baby fat, you cant over feed them by using a sensible approach"

That's true, but not everyone uses a sensible approach.

waterrat Sun 08-Dec-13 18:36:19

Op when my son was 14 weeks he was feeding about every 2.5 hours - i only really
Moved to 4 hours between feeds when he started eating food. He was massive - 98th percebtile and i only weighed him I know how horrid it must be to have conflicting advice but 4 hours between feeds seems a very long time to me - please try to listen to your instinct and feed your baby when he seems hungry

Humans evolved to carry their babies close like monkeys all the Time and babies stomachs are specifically designed as small so that they feed frequently until they move onto solids

I don't believe a 14 week old can overt eat milk they know what they need - it's such a short time in their life that they are reliant on milk - it can be easy to over think it - but you around like a great mum who is Doing a brilliant job

waterrat Sun 08-Dec-13 18:38:00

Sorry meant to say I only weighed him once and didn't bother after that - if you weren't weighing him I bet you wouldn't be worrying

Bankholidaybaby Tue 17-Dec-13 16:08:08

Thanks to everyone who took the time to comment. He's settled down a lot in the past few days (he hit 14lbs and suddenly decided to STTN!) and I think was going through a week-long growth spurt! He's still on the line for the 91st centile, which is great.

Ullapull Tue 17-Dec-13 23:30:07

It sounds like you're doing a great job OP, don't be disheartened, well done for following your gut feeling. Your DH really needs to get it into his thick skull that babies so young cannot be manipulative and don't need to be trained! Ask him to read up on the "fourth trimester" stuff ie up to nine months old, babies need cuddles, holding, feeding, love. They aren't playing tricks, they literally don't know they're born!

Ullapull Tue 17-Dec-13 23:31:10

Sorry, got muddled, I meant the fourth trimester is up to THREE months old.

Bankholidaybaby Thu 19-Dec-13 20:03:38

I've talked to him about it but he reckons everything anyone says regarding babies is guesswork and that we have no idea what motivates them. He says I can't possibly tell what he wants from his cries and gestures. hmm

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