bf v ff

(91 Posts)
zoesmum2012 Wed 13-Nov-13 11:22:05

Just really wanted to open chat about the above cos I don't think bf is all that and ff isn't as bad is its made out to be my dd bf for few day then ff and she's fine!! Even my hv said studys about bf don't tell the truth cos money family support etc isn't taken into account ps no nasty comments on how am evil etc

star15 Wed 13-Nov-13 12:03:39

I try'd to bf my daughter and it was to working for either of us, my GP was great when I said I had stopped and said it's not for everyone, however my HV was a total bitch about it and basically told me I was letting my child down by giving up.

I know to children that got BF for a year and both are constantly ill, with cold, coughs etc.

I think each to their own, it's your child and you should do what you feel is best for you and baby.

mrsmartin1984 Wed 13-Nov-13 12:23:15

Which study shows that FFing is alright and on a par with BFing? (which isn't funded my formula companies) Every once in a while a new study comes out showing something else that breast milk does which we didn't know. Recent ones show that it protects against HIV, they have better mental health, people who breast feed are more likely to accept organ donation, more intelligent and less likely to be obese.

Thats not me being horrible, that's stating the facts. Cue angry people saying how I am being judgemental and making women feel "guilty"

Meringue33 Wed 13-Nov-13 12:24:26

Good try, OP biscuit

MyMILisfromHELL Wed 13-Nov-13 12:28:12

What about long term health?

AngelsLieToKeepControl Wed 13-Nov-13 12:28:15

They are both perfectly valid ways to feed your child, there are pros and cons to both, make your own choice based on your own circumstances, and stop trying to kick off yet another bun fight about bf/ff.

JollySeriousGiant Wed 13-Nov-13 12:31:38

The studies prove the long term health benefits of BF. For both the mother and child. That's why BF is preferable.

If we link to decent medical studies, will you read them, op?

MyMILisfromHELL Wed 13-Nov-13 12:32:49

Formula is laced with heavy metals. It is reconstituted cow's milk, originally intended to feed calves. It is not on par with human milk at all. Your hv sounds thick & should not be in her job.

WaspsInTheHouse Wed 13-Nov-13 12:35:45

Put a boob and a bottle in an arena and let them fight it out!!

MyMILisfromHELL Wed 13-Nov-13 12:38:24

Formula is only valid where baby can not bf, not when mum refuses to. Every newborn deserves human milk. If only for a few days.

Chopsypie Wed 13-Nov-13 12:38:48

Have the Huns invaded?

Who gives a shit how/why others feed their baby? Surely it's no ones business but the parents?

Poor attempt to start a bun fight

Pobblewhohasnotoes Wed 13-Nov-13 12:41:14

Oh, this again....

Pass the popcorn someone.

For what it's worth I tried to bf, it failed as I didn't produce any milk which turned out to be because of having an under active thyroid. Spent hours trying to express and get a baby to latch on who just would scream. It was torture for both of us. But I'd try again if I had number two

Breast is best. But formula keeps many many babies (like mine) alive. Thank god we have that alternative.

Locketjuice Wed 13-Nov-13 12:41:47

Why want you want to discuss how another mum feeds her baby?
One of mine was BF other was FF.
The point?
Both get poorly but both are okay the majority of the time. smile

Really really don't get these threads...

MoominsYonisAreScary Wed 13-Nov-13 12:44:47

I have 4 and have bf and ff

Didnt even try to bf ds1 because I didnt want to. Hes an adult now and couldnt care less how I fed him as a baby

zoesmum.

I'm settled with my feeding choices.
You're settled with your feeding choices.
She's settled with her feeding choices.

We're settled with our feeding choices.
You're (pl) settled with your feeding choices.
They're settled with their feeding choices.

So let's just leave it, ay?

<<removes sppon from OP's grasp>>

BeansAndCheese Wed 13-Nov-13 12:53:31

I agree with locket. You get all the info you need to make a choice. People who ff will tell you its fine, people who bf will tell you it's not. I bf, and hope to do it again. Hv dont know anything everything. They are certainly not experts on bf. I found that out the hard way!

gamerchick Wed 13-Nov-13 12:59:29

Chuckling at the image of a boob and a bottle scrapping it out grin

I'm pro baby's getting fed full stop.. but I would love it if all baby's were given colostrum for the first few days of their life. After that... crack on.

zoesmum2012 Wed 13-Nov-13 13:17:47

Am not trying to start a fighrt just really wondering if bf and ff babies are that really just the same I was bf but uive had mental illness probs with weight while dh was ff and fit and well

stargirl1701 Wed 13-Nov-13 13:23:36

So, maybe you should go and do some reading about the subject rather than start threads such as this one.

sonlypuppyfat Wed 13-Nov-13 13:26:00

I have 3DCs none of them ever had a bottle I really couldn't be bothered with the faff of bottles cleaning them getting up in the middle of the night ugh I'm far too lazy for that. How you feed your baby is up to you. In my opinion ff is for people who can't feed.

TotallyBenHanscom Wed 13-Nov-13 13:40:54

There are pros and cons with both. I found the cons with breastfeeding tended to be painful - engorged breasts, mastitis, nearly chewed off nipples, stretch marks.

First DC I exclusively breast fed, by the third DC I was working so found it impossible. Thank you SMA for making my life easier!

Whatever suits you and your lifestyle, pay no attenton to the haters.

MoominsYonisAreScary Wed 13-Nov-13 13:42:26

It really doesnt matter what other people think, as long as you are happy with how you feed

What on earth are 'haters'. I've never seen this term used before and suddenly, it's used on the last 4 breastfeeding threads I've read. Has it replaced breastapo or lactivist? I need to update my bfing cliché book.

Faithless12 Wed 13-Nov-13 13:56:43

Why do people care what others think of their choices? Would you be embarrassed if someone off the street said they didn't like your husband/partner?
Do what's best for your child and make peace with it whatever your decision. Arguing studies are flawed or are scare mongering is a waste of energy. The studies prove what is best for baby not what is best for the individual family.

sittinginthesun Wed 13-Nov-13 14:16:37

Have I wandered onto the wrong forum?

kilmuir Wed 13-Nov-13 14:18:42

Breast is best

Tiredemma Wed 13-Nov-13 14:20:45

lets have a discussion about people who dont bother feeding their kids at all

thats a much better discussion.

BopsX3 Wed 13-Nov-13 14:27:16

I FF all 3 of my boys. I wanted to BF with my first but decided it wasn't for me, I personally just wasn't comfortable with it because of my own insecurities. I think there are pros and cons to both and the parents should just do what's right for them and shouldn't be made to feel guilty no matter what their choice. I also don't think they should be pressurised or persuaded either way.

I really don't think there should be any kind of debate over which is best. The best kind of feeding is the kind that suits the family.

zoesmum2012 Wed 13-Nov-13 14:58:29

Ok good points but what have all of urs done to help bf mothers to stay bf apart from saying it will get better ? Maybe insteed of ff bashing form a helpline local support group give ur old breast pump for free and so and so surely that's better then bashing looking down on ff mothers my dd 11 m and I still feel like I failed her that she needing more bm then fews day then mixed for a while. But in the bf crew am a bad mum

NomDeClavier Wed 13-Nov-13 15:09:49

'Maybe insteed of ff bashing form a helpline local support group give ur old breast pump for free'

Because you need funding for premises or a phone line, training and insurance. Unskilled intervention is more likely to do harm than good and training as a BFC takes a couple of years and frequently a pile of cash.

And don't whatever you do pass on an old breast pump unless it's a closed system one!

BF isn't exactly the same as FF. It doesn't do anyone any favours to say FF is as good for babies, but stating that fact doesn't mean you're FF bashing. FF can be infinitely better for some mothers emotionally and the protection against various types of cancer is little consolation if you're in unimaginable pain from thrush/mastitis/milk blisters so it's luck of the draw physically too.

There needs to be a lot more infant feeding support full stop. The number of parents who don't know how to prepare bottles of formula safely is scary, and that's entirely unrelated to BF support.

Can someone repost Chaos' post in Latin please? smile

Nobody is bashing. I am a bfing peer supporter. I give up my own time to help bfing mothers.

gamerchick Wed 13-Nov-13 16:08:17

In my experience breastfeeding mothers get a hell of a lot more abuse and name calling than formula feeders OP.

I'm torn between whether you're disappointed somewhat your thread hasn't turned into a bunfight or you're projecting feeling like a failure and want to be told so.

A good mother feeds their baby.. which you've done.. everything else is just gravy.

zoesmum2012 Wed 13-Nov-13 16:42:51

Hmmm am in the middle of helping friends set up a fb group for bf mothers to get help and chat though the long nights ahead no money and no training ( partly why I asked ) so yeah u can I didn't want a bum fight nor bitching nor am I saying ff is better just after doing my own research there's a very good chance that bf and ff babies grow up the same with illness and so and so the way there fed has little to do with that in my own little research study thing no harm indended ( yes I can't spell ) and am sorry if I came acoss as a bitch bum fight pro. I really am why can't be all put the boob and bottle down and support each other ps its trure I feel like a faulire

WestieMamma Wed 13-Nov-13 16:51:27

*sniggers at 'bum fight'

forgetmenots Wed 13-Nov-13 17:14:31

I think we need to stop criticising others' feeding choices either way. Full stop. There are health, nutritional benefits to bf that are amazing but as pobble said some of our babies would not be here without the advances in formula. Enough.

gamerchick Wed 13-Nov-13 17:17:47

You're the one who started the thread then got ratty with people. This is the best behaved thread on the issue I've ever seen.

TheFabulousIdiot Wed 13-Nov-13 17:19:17

Breast milk is best and normal and natural.

Did I do ok?

forgetmenots Wed 13-Nov-13 18:45:30

You did just great TheFabulousIdiot. Applause!
To which I'd add formula is great, normal and, in some cases, an actual lifesaver.

(Pssst - did we actually avoid the bunfight? Hooray!)

NomDeClavier Wed 13-Nov-13 18:48:49

Chatting is one thing, but all you can do on a FB group or on MN is tell people to hang in there, it will get better, check the latch, try a different position. That's a start but it's not the support that will keep people BFing when they're in trouble.

For more than that you need to see people in person, which means they come to you in a centralised space (that you probably need to rent and have insurance for) or you go to them (which means paying travel). To get to the bottom of problems you do need training.

Those of us who do support BFing mothers in person know it's not something that is easy, and that there are issues that will be solved by someone telling you to keep going or spouting off the evils of FF. There are many very knowledgeable posters in the feeding section who do their best to provide online encouragement and support to mothers however they feed their baby. This kind of thread isn't constructive.

NomDeClavier Wed 13-Nov-13 18:49:25

Issues that will not be solved rather!

forgetmenots Wed 13-Nov-13 18:59:38

Hear hear Nom. On that topic I'd like to give an un-MN hug and thanks to tiktok who gave great advice when I was combifeeding, after being devastated by not ebf amazingly, her support was top notch. That was truly constructive.

loveolives Wed 13-Nov-13 20:12:38

Please speak properly.

Cosmo89 Wed 13-Nov-13 21:03:06

yawn.

brettgirl2 Wed 13-Nov-13 21:16:55

I agree with tiredemma

Teaandflapjacks Wed 13-Nov-13 21:56:14

I also agree with Tiredemma grin

pointyfangs Wed 13-Nov-13 22:47:16

I bf for 13 months both times. I have friends who gave bf their all but it did not work for them. I have friends who said they would not bf and then changed their minds and made it work. The main thing is not to judge.

However on a large scale level, bf is better if you can do it. The data on basic health is pretty clear. So bags of sympathy to those who tried and couldn't, but little for those who did not give it a shot at all and had no medical grounds for not trying.

MoominsYonisAreScary Thu 14-Nov-13 14:45:27

See thats the thing, nobody actually wants sympathy, why would we?

MabelBee Thu 14-Nov-13 15:10:32

Health visitors are just people with opinions. They aren't lactation specialists and should be banned from issuing any advice about feeding babies other than referring people on. Saying "even my health visitor said" has as much leverage as "even my postman said."

mrsmartin1984 Thu 14-Nov-13 15:31:18

Hear hear, I've heard HV give some truely terrible advice

Pobblewhohasnotoes Thu 14-Nov-13 15:33:54

MabelBee Thu 14-Nov-13 15:10:32
Health visitors are just people with opinions. They aren't lactation specialists and should be banned from issuing any advice about feeding babies other than referring people on. Saying "even my health visitor said" has as much leverage as "even my postman said."

They're nurses actually.

And should therefore be giving correct up to date evidence based advice.

I'm a children's nurse too, and have to on the ward so it shouldn't any different.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Thu 14-Nov-13 15:34:30

*be any different.

gamerchick Thu 14-Nov-13 15:41:27

Health visitors are mint grin

My ex had to intervene once in an argument about Co sleeping. I got a new one after that who was amazing.. I was sorry when youngest was too old for one.

mrsmartin1984 Thu 14-Nov-13 15:43:31

I know they are nurses. But they are not experts on BFing but they pretend they are. Most parents don't need them. Believe me if you hear some of the crap that comes out of their mouth you'd be shocked. On the whole they are terribly opinionated.

MabelBee Fri 15-Nov-13 03:57:41

I also have a lovely health visitor. She comes around for a nice chat and has been very helpful with my older children. But when I google her breastfeeding advice, most recently that I should wait long enough between feeds for my breasts to be full and hard, I am unsurprised that other women fail. If you take advice like that at face value without double checking it, you are doomed. Have had some corkers off midwives too. I say again, they should not be allowed to advise people on how to feed babies.

MabelBee Fri 15-Nov-13 04:01:34

And she is so unsubtle about pushing the formula! You have to be very confident to resist someone coming into your home when you've just had a baby and saying how much easier formula would be.

MummyLuce Sat 16-Nov-13 15:25:11

Agree that most HVs appear to be thick as ... I have had no contact with mine since day 10 I think and my LO is
now 18 months!
It's annoying when people who ff go on and on about feeling like a failure for giving up with bf....but then also bang on about how great ff is! Simple truth is that if you couldn't bf for medical reasons then you aren't a failure and it's obviously not your fault. And if you gave up because its painful/inconvenient/means you have to do every feed/feel self conscious/too time time consuming then just learn from it and bf next time! Don't bang on about being a failure and simultaneously rejoice in formula. The battle there is clearly in your own head, doesn't need to be discussed on a forum, right?

forgetmenots Sat 16-Nov-13 15:49:01

I see what you're saying mummyluce actually! It must be irritating to hear and I think we all get a bit fractious about this topic. But I genuinely rejoice in formula (even though it smells) as it allowed DS to thrive, and am therefore SO grateful for it. But would have loved to bf longer than I did and exclusively, and while my angst (that still exists after months!) is probably (definitely) irrational, it is undoubtedly there. I don't expect sympathy but I do think mums should stop judging others (and that cuts several ways with feeding, and includes hesitating before trotting out HV advice that might not be true...)

I think most MN threads are discussions that could be had in posters' heads... Certainly my sleep-deprived one! confused

BopsX3 Sat 16-Nov-13 16:09:48

I don't think I've heard anyone I know that FFs say it's easier lol. In fact, I'd say its harder and breast feeding is more convenient. You don't have to faff about with making bottles, washing bottles, making sure they're the right temp, getting up in the middle of the night and standing in the kitchen for 20 mins while a bottle cools down/warms up, you don't have to find somewhere that'll warm a bottle up for you whilst your out etc etc. I FF all 3 of mine but I definately would not say it was more convenient. (Not looking for an argument there by the way, just expressing my opinion)

BopsX3 Sat 16-Nov-13 16:10:36

Oops, sorry, that first sentence should say more convenient, not easier. Easier is definately the wrong word

AnythingNotEverything Sat 16-Nov-13 16:10:50

I think it's really important that people feed their children. I don't really care how.

Its also important that we recognise internationally respected advice that breastfeeding is best for both mums and babies. This is more valid than anecdotal evidence.

Finally, I also think it's important to use punctuation so that the reader can follow your argument easily.

weeblueberry Sat 16-Nov-13 16:55:23

I don't think I've heard anyone I know that FFs say it's easier lol.

I think it depends in what was you consider if easier. I found breastfeeding DD very stressful mentally and physically. So while there's obviously the sterilising and organisational side that's lengthier, if you're having issues breastfeeding then it's a million times easier. I breastfed DD for 5 and a half months and hated it. Utterly hated it. When we eventually introduced some formula feeds I realised how much better it made me feel. So, for me, it was much much easier smile

BopsX3 Sat 16-Nov-13 17:03:54

Weeblueberry, I posted another comment straight after saying I didn't mean to say easier, I meant more convenient. Sorry for the confusion confused

weeblueberry Sat 16-Nov-13 17:04:34

Ah sorry I didn't see that smile

BopsX3 Sat 16-Nov-13 17:06:54

No worries smile I should've checked my original comment before posting.

But I can definately understand your explanation of why, in some cases, BFs not easier. I've read on other threads about people having problems with latching and milk flow etc (sorry if I've got that wrong, I haven't Bf so don't know all the technical terms)

BerstieSpotts Sat 16-Nov-13 17:18:16

Seriously, just go and look at the breast and bottle feeding board if you want to know what people are doing to help and support. Look at it now, in the middle of kids' tea time. Look at it at 3am. Look at the posts from mothers desperately trying to feed their hours-old baby who won't latch on. Look how many pages, and pages, and pages there are of advice and hope and support, real, practical support, not "Aww it'll get better hun!"

Please also note the numerous threads on that board where posters are asking for help with mixed feeding, or how to make a bottle up the best way, how long they can keep made up formula or expressed milk for, asking for advice on sterilising, and people supporting them and offering help and advice and sometimes even going to the trouble of looking things up.

Why would you come on here and accuse people of being unhelpful when you clearly haven't even looked at the relevant board? It's just rude. Quite frankly, mumsnet is one of the best resources for help and support with breast and bottle feeding, anywhere in the country - possibly even the world.

zoesmum2012 Sun 17-Nov-13 11:26:36

http://www.babble.com/baby/benefits-of-breastfeeding-baby-formula-feeding/ can some1 read this ( it got be thinking )

mrsmartin1984 Sun 17-Nov-13 12:40:30

You've provided a website that's sponsored by disney to back up your claims that FFing is ok. Brilliant, I'm completely swayed. I love disney and they are experts in infant feeding.

I shall completely dismiss all the other scientific surveys that shows all the amazing benefits of BFing.

NomDeClavier Sun 17-Nov-13 13:41:44

Do you really want me to deconstruct all those arguments?

No-one here has said FF is going to kill your baby. That author acknowledges there is some evidence that BM is better physically but also points out that at the end of a day it's a judgement call, BF has an emotional cost and we take risks every day that are equivalent to or greater than FFing. It's not saying that FF is as good, or better, just that it's a viable alternative. I don't see any argument against that!

zoesmum2012 Sun 17-Nov-13 14:01:28

Tell me something why didn't none of you mention what she said about bf ??

ExBrightonBell Sun 17-Nov-13 14:04:07

Zoe, can you tell me more about the author of this article please? Why do you find her to be a particularly reliable authority on this topic? Have you read her book, and read through the scientific research that she references? Do you agree with her interpretation of the science?

DeepThought Sun 17-Nov-13 14:19:09

from that article:

''I wanted to understand how breastfeeding has come to be perceived as the holy grail of health and formula-feeding as the equivalent of giving a baby nicotine'' I don't ever hear folk saying that, this is rather ridiculous hyperbole, inflated language if you like

''we need to stop making claims that breastfeeding is the only choice for mothers who care about their children.'' who is the ''we'' that make these claims?

The author has a book to push

(Have delib not linked here)

NomDeClavier Sun 17-Nov-13 14:48:12

????? I mentioned BF twice in reference to that article, once positively, once negatively?! And further down the thread I specifically acknowledged the downsides of BFing!

Just like you're selectively reading that article you are selectively reading this thread and that's not going to get anyone anywhere.

NomDeClavier Sun 17-Nov-13 14:57:51

Or would you have preferred us to link to her article earlier? There are hundreds of equally valid links out there, and given that the author has an agenda I would suggest there are more valid ones which say essentially the same thing.

Infant feeding studies are virtually impossible to carry out because of the number of variables. The results of the most reliable studies tend to indicate that BF has health benefits but short of extremely unethical studies involving identical twins we will never be able to prove it.

BFing has an emotional and sometimes physical cost associated with it which outweighs the health benefits to mother and baby. FFing poses potential health risks to the baby from contaminated formula or incorrectly prepared feeds. Neither is perfect.

Formula is never going to completely replicate BM, it would be crazy to say that it can, but it's a perfectly healthy and viable alternative.

AnythingNotEverything Sun 17-Nov-13 17:47:03

I think the key message, which is often missed, is that while breast milk is best for babies, there's nothing really wrong with formula. It's not a binary issue - one isn't good while the other is bad.

BopsX3 Sun 17-Nov-13 18:18:33

Both breast feeding and formula feeding have pros and cons. You do what's best for you and your baby

If you breast feed, fantastic! It you formula feed, brilliant! As long as the baby is fed and the mother isn't suffering mentally or physically then I really don't think it matters which you choose.

I really don't see why there is such a massive debate over the whole thing. It's pointless! Breast feeders are never going to change their minds and neither are formula feeders.

Why can't people just leave it at that?

zoesmum2012 Sun 17-Nov-13 20:25:18

I don't care anymore I know what I know and any1 else knows what they need to know. It used to matter cos of the crap I got from family/friends/ baby groups baby ps mum got ou of jail today made me think that's more a prob them how you feed your babies . As a side note iam sorry if I came across as mean etc

sandberry Sun 17-Nov-13 21:38:59

That was an interesting selective use of research in that article.

For example the PROBIT study showed that for every 25 babies breastfed there was one fewer GI infection. She could have said equally accurately that if every baby in the UK was breastfed there would be over 32,000 fewer GI infections and it would be the same. I think that is quite a significant reduction actually. The reality is that breastfeeding may or may not make a difference to an individual baby but makes a huge difference on a population level just like immunisation.

But really who on an individual basis cares how people feed their babies?

I personally care (partly because it is my job) that parents get the information they need to make the right choice for them. That parents who choose to breastfeed get accurate evidence based information and are supported to continue as long as they wish to breastfeed and that parents who choose to formula feed have the information and support to do so safely and in a way which reduces the risks but beyond that I don't care and on a personal level who does care.

Why do your friends/family/baby group acquaintances care how you feed your baby. Do they know your personal history? I kind of assume unless I'm told otherwise that friends have had the information and made the best choice for them.

FutTheShuckUp Sun 17-Nov-13 21:43:09

Health visitors receive the same training for supporting breastfeeding as midwives and bf supporters. Why rubbish their knowledge when you haven't actually got a clue?

Chunderella Sun 17-Nov-13 22:06:03

No interest in this particular bunfight, but just thought the claim upthread about new evidence showing bf protects against HIV was a bit selective, to say the least, and needed further development. It's true that there has been some recent research showing that protein in breastmilk has some protective effect. But the fact is that even with the benefit of these proteins, breastfeeding whilst HIV positive is extremely dangerous. It is a method of transmission from mother to baby- WHO puts the rate at 10-20%. Of course, in many areas of the world formula feeding is even riskier because of poor sanitation, so HIV positive mothers are advised that bf is the safer option- a disgrace to our species, incidentally, that millions of women are put in a position where the feeding method with only a 1 in 5 chance of making the baby seriously ill is the least worst option.

So while there seem be some HIV neutralizing properties in breastmilk (and logic suggests surely there must be something otherwise the transmission rates could be way higher) it also remains a way in which babies are infected. Which is why HIV positive women who are able to formula feed safely are advised to do so. No discussion of the effects bf has on HIV is complete without this information.

MoominsYonisAreScary Sun 17-Nov-13 23:20:13

I remember reading a study about mix feeding when the mother has HIV and is unable to exclusively ff due to contaminated water/ Lack of money to buy formula etc it was advised not to use formula at all as it can cause the gut to become inflamed making it easier for HIV to be passed to the baby when bf.

so not so much bm having neutralizing propwrties, just that its easy to digest, doesnt cause the gut to inflame so less likely that HIV will be passed on.

Chunderella Mon 18-Nov-13 07:36:25

Moomins in the situation you describe, you know why there's a risk of HIV transmission don't you? It's the breastmilk. The body does seem to have some ways of reducing the risk in this situation, hence the proteins and the gut sealant properties, but nonetheless breastfeeding when HIV positive does not protect against HIV. Quite the opposite: it presents a significant risk of passing it on.

Oh, the new research does suggest possible neutralizing properties. It's early days but there might be some radical implications.

MoominsYonisAreScary Tue 19-Nov-13 21:28:16

Yes of course I do! But like I said, in situations when the mother cant use formula full time, its advised not to use any at all. As for proteins, I have no idea, I think there needs to be a lot more research into it.

obviously in this country and many others which have clean water supplies and formula readily available, a mother would be advised not to bf. But in lots of places in the world it isn't possible to substitute formula

Chunderella Tue 19-Nov-13 21:35:59

None of this changes the fact that in that situation, the risk of HIV comes from breastfeeding, though. Which makes it inaccurate to claim that bf protects against HIV.

NomDeClavier Tue 19-Nov-13 21:43:10

Would it be more accurate to say that BF protects against gut inflammation which reduces the likelihood of HIV transmission? So in the grand scheme of things FF in that case is safest, but BFing is safer than mix feeding.

But it does open up an avenue of research into the properties of BM in combatting HIV where there is a pre-existing infection?

Chunderella Tue 19-Nov-13 21:58:23

It would be accurate but only a small part of the truth, because in that situation it is bf that is exposing the baby to the possibility of HIV transmission. It's just that the body has some mechanisms for reducing the risk. Certainly bf is safer than either ff or mixed feeding in those circumstances, but that's a separate issue entirely to the risk of HIV transmission.

I don't know about pre-existing infection. Let's hope so!

Mattissy Tue 19-Nov-13 22:02:01

I am a bf fan! It's much better got baby and for mother too. If I had another 10 dc's i bf all of them.

That said I ff my ds, he's 12 now and is as fit as a fiddle, never ill, tall, slim, intelligent, handsome (I'm still besotted with him, lol). I did give him 2 wks of exclusive bf at the start though.

If you want to ff then do it, however if you can bring yourself to give the first few feeds so dc gets the colostrum that'll be even better.

Good luck

LittleAprilShowers Thu 21-Nov-13 04:17:48

This thread is hilarious.

I love it when people try to 'win' the bf v ff debate by saying they know people who were breastfed and are very ill, and the opposite for ff people. Nothing's guaranteed but it doesn't change the fact that BM is a substance which is better for baby (not being a twattybum there but that's fact) but like pps have said if BFing doesn't work out for you formula is a godsend alternative that will ensure you baby doesn't die of starvation.

I just love to picture a top scientist who has spent their lives doing BM research sittin in their lab reading mumsnet going "Oh fuck-a-doodle-do, it says here that Suzy from Lewisham was breastfed but gets eczema, whilst her mate Marie was formula fed and is super healthy. That blows my research out the bastard water!!!"

youaremychocolatecake Thu 21-Nov-13 23:24:13

Personal choice. I breast feed personally but I know formula fed babies who have turned out great. I think if breast feeding is going to stress you out and make you uncomfortable and/or unhappy then it's probably not best for baby. X

youaremychocolatecake Thu 21-Nov-13 23:26:16

And just as a little aside. I have lost almost a stone sincey son was born 3 weeks ago eating pretty much whatever I want. Breast feeding rocks! X

Bazoo23 Fri 29-Nov-13 21:05:51

Im so glad I breastfed my daughter after reading this thread. Breastmilk is an amazing thing.
She was EBF and went on to formula at ten and a half months. Formula is also a great thing.
But breast is undisputeably best.

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