Can I give her back?

(144 Posts)
CleanAllTheThings Wed 11-Sep-13 21:08:38

Really struggling tonight. Baby is 10 days old and has been on my breasts since 2 this afternoon. She isn't sucking properly or swallowing but I can't put her down or even move her away from the nipple into my arms for a cuddle. When oh takes her she just screams until she is back on the breast.
We struggled to get feeding established and when she was weighed at day 5 she had lost 11%. Midwife not concerned, weighed again yesterday and she has gained but still not up to birth weight. They still aren't bothered and we aren't being seen again until discharge on 23rd.
She feeds quite well in the day and usually cluster feeds for two or three hours late afternoon, but today it has been relentless. I cant move her, I can't feed laying down to get some rest and I just wish someone would take her away for the night.
Everyone keeps telling me that feeding is going well and I'm doing great but how can I be?
I have a carton of formula that I'm tempted to give but not sure if it would even help because she would still want to be held constantly? Tried to lay down in bed with her just now but that wasn't good enough.

What do I do? It's only 9 and im dreading the rest of the night. I can't do this.why did I ever want to have a baby.

Please help

Ah, you poor thing, Clean, I feel for you.
I've been there, bought the t-shirt and did it all again (I have 4 boys).

Some babies are like that, little Kling-ons who Will Not Be Put Down. It is very hard, particularly when you don't enjoy having her on you all the time.
Is there anybody who can hold her for you for a while? Do you have a partner or parents who can give you a bit of peace? Will she settle in the pram? Have you tried a sling? Slings are very good for fathers too btw... Can you feed lying down?? Have you considered safe co-sleeping??

You may not feel it just now, but you are doing a great job.
If giving her one feed of formula saves your sanity, then give it - it will NOT ruin your BFing relationship if you want it to continue.

She is only tiny, try just to keep going for the next feed. And then the next... and so on.

I can wax lyrically for hours about the high-needs/fussy baby. Yes, sometimes it's colic, and sometimes it's reflux, but sometimes it's simply babies who want to be held a lot.

She WILL get bigger and older and more mature and things will get easier. They will, honest. Do what you have to just now to keep yourself coping.

Oh, and I forgot, congratulations on the arrival of your daughter smilethanks

SweetSeraphim Wed 11-Sep-13 21:18:42

I have no advice for you, I ff both of mine, and would advocate that in your situation, you need some rest. However, ff babies is rather frowned upon on a lot of forums.

I'm so sorry for you. I remember it like it was yesterday and my youngest is 8 now. It WILL get better, I promise thanks

IBakeThereforeIAm Wed 11-Sep-13 21:20:16

I don't have the magic answer, but if she 'feeds quite well in the day' you sound like breastfeeding IS going well :-)

It might be a growth spurt - check kellymom for details - really helpful website. Un-mumsnetty hugs for you x

CoteDAzur Wed 11-Sep-13 21:20:32

Give her a dummy.

Sarahlundismyhero Wed 11-Sep-13 21:21:00

Ahh read your post OP and know what you are going through - you will get through it-some nights they just want to feed non stop, you got to just go with it like you sound like you are doing. You are doing a great job esp if baby is putting on weight.. Still being only 2 weeks old, such early days. ....I know you feel like you want someone to take the baby off you but baby needs you-- can you give her some more and then hand her to your oh to deal with while you take a bath / walk whatever you need ??? Sorry cant help more but just to say I'm thinking of you- I have 3 ds, and recall those days with amazing clarity.. The tears, the not knowing whether you are doing it right,especially when it's ur first baby. Keep going. You can do this

HPsauceonbaconbuttiesmmm Wed 11-Sep-13 21:23:30

pacific speaks sense there. I gave both mine a bottle of formula in the early days, I was just exhausted and they were desperate. It can become a vicious circle, when you get tired you produce less milk... DS had 1 bottle and was otherwise BF til 7.5m, DD had 2 bottles and is otherwise ebf now at 4m. A bottle of formula won't make any odds long term but may give you a break.

Also, have a look at kellymom for great breastfeeding tips and solutions. And there's the feeding section on here where there are usually some very experienced breastfeeders to give advice.

I would really work on feeding lying down, google pictures of how to latch. It's a total lifesaver.

notanyanymore Wed 11-Sep-13 21:24:08

Hi clean I've been there 2 (3 bf'd babies) 10 days old is when they do this! Its not indicative of a clingy baby but a prelude to a growth spurt (ensures the milks in for when they need it) it'll pass in a day or two. For me, co-sleeping was my saviour! if she won't latch on straight off with you lying on your side and her facing you, try a good grip and a rigorous bum pat! (Obviously, remove pillows etc, I used a small cushion so if I moved my head would fall off and it'd wake me up, I never did move tho!) It is worth sticking with it in IME. And if you can get the hang of it now it'll be much easier when she gets her second one at about 6 weeks!

mamabrownbear Wed 11-Sep-13 21:25:14

Congrats on your wee one. I've been there. Our DD lost 15% of her weight and we ended up back in hospital and I had to give her formula. I wasn't producing much milk ( due to stress, painkillers and laxatives I think) plus she was struggling to latch on.
Once I expressed lots so I knew I was producing enough to feed her, while supplementing with formula I was also given a nipple shield which helped her latch on and we've never had a problem with breast feeding since.
It's takers a while to move to more Breast Milk than formula but to be honest it's not been a problem, she takes both happily which means DH can help out if I really need sleep and when I'm out and about because I don't feel very comfy wiping out my boobs in pulic!

Best of both worlds I think, booby and formula milk. It will keep you sane and more rested and the more rested and sane you feel the more lovely booby milk you will produce and eventually it will be all booby and so little formula...good luck, it gets easier x

SweetSeraphim Wed 11-Sep-13 21:25:15

Do you have anyone that could take her for a few hours so that you can have a good sleep?

joanofarchitrave Wed 11-Sep-13 21:29:11

I'm bumping for you because there are people on here who will be able to help - I'm not much use but I do feel for you so much. Have you put in a call to one of the breastfeeding helplines, have they been any use?

NCT Breastfeeding Line 0300 330 0771 8am - 10pm seven days a week

Association of Breastfeeding Mothers 08444 122 949 9.30am - 10.30pm every day

Breastfeeding Network Supporterline 0844 412 4664 9.30am - 9.30pm every day of the year

La Leche League 0845 120 2918

sittinginthesun Wed 11-Sep-13 21:30:21

10 day growth spurt!!! it's a nightmare, but it will pass.

With ds1, I completely cracked (bad delivery, still wasn't able to sit, had been up every hour for 10 days). I sat in the bath and cried for 3 hours whilst DH gave DS a bottle of formula.

I was better prepared with ds2, so expected it, but it was hard.

Just assume you are going to do nothing but feed for 24 hours, and it will pass.

CoteDAzur Wed 11-Sep-13 21:31:17

Forget La Leche League. If your baby has been on your breast for 7 hours non-stop, it means she is using you as a dummy.

Just give her a dummy.

CleanAllTheThings Wed 11-Sep-13 21:32:17

She has fallen asleep but I daren't move. My oh is exhausted too, he managed to get her to sleep for half an hour and i had a short break to rest my eyes but she woke as soon as he put her down. I've told him to get some rest so we aren't both frazzled but he doesn't want to leave me downstairs.

Can't manage feeding lying down. Tried lying down with her in bed to sleep but she still woke as soon as her head hit the mattress.

I managed to hand express a little bit of milk so may try cup feeding her later. I don't think being hungry is the issue though!

mamabrownbear Wed 11-Sep-13 21:33:16

Jeezo, sorry about all the typos in my last post! Meant to say, I agree with a previous poster, somehow after 6 weeks is does get much better...x

Have you tried a dummy?

SweetSeraphim Wed 11-Sep-13 21:35:23

It isn't, it's comfort. Imo. I agree with Cote, get her a dummy. You poor thing sad My dd is 15 now, but I can remember when she was about the same age, I thought I might have to have her adopted! I honestly couldn't cope, parenthood hit me like a brick, and I was 27!

CleanAllTheThings Wed 11-Sep-13 21:38:34

I've been reluctant to try the dummy because worried it would affect supply but might just have to see if it works.

OohMrDarcy Wed 11-Sep-13 21:39:28

I've been there and its exhausting!

DS lost 12% of his weight and took 4 weeks to regain his birth weight (which was hefty to be fair!)

I do recall a growth spurt at 10 days which left me feeling like I was nothing more than a milk machine... but it does pass - it will, just have lots of drinks to keep your fluids up, porridge or flapjack (basically oats) is meant to be good for milk production too

rest when you can and this time that feels like forever will be over before you know it

IBakeThereforeIAm Wed 11-Sep-13 21:40:28

One person sleeps while the other cuddles - it's the law!

YeahWhat Wed 11-Sep-13 21:41:37

I promise it will get better. smile

Your DD is still brand new and as much of a novice as you.

I would, perhaps, give lying down feeding another go. I used to dose and feed at the same time. (Maybe that isn't recommended now ? confused )

Let her use you as a dummy when you can bear it - use an acutal dummy when you cannot!
Prolonged use of a dummy might affect your supply.

Honestly, do what you have to to survive. You sound keen to continue BFing, yes? Eat and drink when you can, rest when you can, and try to go with the flow ie don't expect to be able to put her down - then any peace you get will be a bonus.

Yy to parenthood hitting me like a brick - and I was 37 the first time grin.

You are doing a great job - repeat after me: You are doing a great job.

ThisIsBULLSHIT Wed 11-Sep-13 21:45:07

Oh my goodness, you have just whisked me back five years to when my dd2 was born. It is so so tough when you have no sleep and your baby feeds constantly.
My dd2 fed every two hours for about two hours so i was constantly shattered. I finally got her into a semi Gina Ford routine when she was about four months old and that gradually worked over a few days. Your is too little for that though I suppose and it may not be a popular choice on here!

Have you got a rocker thing you can put her in? Lots of people I know have recommended them. Second a dummy, both mine had one and it helped soothe them when they were fractious. Also she might think its your boob and might go to sleep!

Just a little question, have you seen your midwife/health visitor and filled in a questionnaire about how you are feeling?

Just try and remember it won't be like this forever, it will pass!!!!!

(Also both mine had the odd carton of formula when I was shagged) grin

ThisIsBULLSHIT Wed 11-Sep-13 21:46:46

When I say shagged, I mean totally knackered!

nowwhat Wed 11-Sep-13 21:48:40

I'm so sorry that it feels like this, but you ARE doing a great job. Have some thanks

My little boy did this at 4 days old and I was quite honestly demented. I was still in hospital in a fair bit of pain, I cried for hours because every time I stopped feeding him he screamed, even though he wasn't really feeding. Finally at 2am I gave him a dummy and he calmed down immediately. I understand your worries because I had them too, but honestly, just do it, if it works it works and if she doesn't want it she won't have it anyway.

Mine is 14 weeks now and likes his dummy but he doesn't always need or want it and it hasn't affected breastfeeding at all. If anything it seemed to help him improve his latch a little bit. My revised plan is to follow my cousins lead with her little girl and make him give his dummy to Santa when he's three! it will totally work

My DS did this exact same thing too, and it's fucking AWFUL at the time but believe me when I say that it will pass. When they're newborns, it seems like every week is a growth spurt week. You could try using a dummy, but the sucking is good for letting your body know how much to produce, and it's new to your DD too so she's still learning. Keep your fluids up, try your best to get comfortable.

One thing that worked for me and my Really Awake Baby was putting him in his pram once he'd fed and fell asleep and getting outside for a walk, he stayed asleep for a while then. Even if you get your DH to take your daughter out for a walk so you can have a break or a sleep.

thestringcheesemassacre Wed 11-Sep-13 21:50:16

agree dummy. I spent 2 weeks crying on the sofa with attached baby. Dummy and within 5 mins I was up and about

thestringcheesemassacre Wed 11-Sep-13 21:50:17

agree dummy. I spent 2 weeks crying on the sofa with attached baby. Dummy and within 5 mins I was up and about

thestringcheesemassacre Wed 11-Sep-13 21:50:18

agree dummy. I spent 2 weeks crying on the sofa with attached baby. Dummy and within 5 mins I was up and about

thestringcheesemassacre Wed 11-Sep-13 21:50:20

agree dummy. I spent 2 weeks crying on the sofa with attached baby. Dummy and within 5 mins I was up and about

thestringcheesemassacre Wed 11-Sep-13 21:50:20

agree dummy. I spent 2 weeks crying on the sofa with attached baby. Dummy and within 5 mins I was up and about

thestringcheesemassacre Wed 11-Sep-13 21:50:21

agree dummy. I spent 2 weeks crying on the sofa with attached baby. Dummy and within 5 mins I was up and about

thestringcheesemassacre Wed 11-Sep-13 21:50:22

agree dummy. I spent 2 weeks crying on the sofa with attached baby. Dummy and within 5 mins I was up and about

thestringcheesemassacre Wed 11-Sep-13 21:51:32

shit don't know what happened there.


monstergoose Wed 11-Sep-13 21:53:46

Hope you get a little rest this evening, my dd is nearly 7m old but this stage seems like yesterday! It is almost certainly a growth spurt, it will last a few days then settle down again but when you're in it it seems like it lasts forever!

I disagree with a pp, I prob wouldn't give a dummy, the point of the constant suckling is that it increases your milk supply so a dummy would stop that.

Feeding lying down is awkward to start with but worthwhile persisting trying as at least then you can rest your eyes at the same time! Have you tried lying on your side with your baby on her side too and kind of holding your lower boob at the right position til she latches on? If you put a pillow lengthways behind you and lean away from her a little you might get into a better position. Or you could try leaning over her slightly and feeding her off your upper boob as long as you don't then fall asleep and roll onto her.

If your nipples are getting sore the lanosin is your best friend, I only used it for a bit but when i needed it it really helped! If you are unsure about your latch you could try your local breast feeding cafe (run by the local authority not some random cafe!!) ours was in by a fab lady who in the space of 10 minutes improved our feeding so much!

Good luck for the rest of the evening, it will get better, and just remember whilst ever you are cuddling/feeding your baby girl you are helping to make her attachment to you stronger and stronger

catellington Wed 11-Sep-13 21:55:36

This sounds normal for a bf baby, i had no idea how hungry a newborn could be before confonted with my own tiny boob monster! My dd would also not be put down at that stage. Have a look at dr sears website for advice on putting down the unputdownable baby. It's exhausting for you but baby loves and needs mummy so much at this stage - but it really does get better and you gradually catch up on sleep. If you can get a few more days down the line with bf it may turn a corner and become easier, and in time be second nature.

I recommend chocolate or whatever treats you want, I also found it better to do something whilst feeding to keep my mind occupied because I didn't like accidentally nodding off whilst feeding. So box sets, MN, etc or something else nice for you to do on sofa or in bed. And yes i agree it would be good for someone to hold baby for a bit while you sleep, even if just for an hour, I was lucky to have my dm to do this but I have a friend whose neighbour actually offered to help after hearing the baby crying!

Tigresswoods Wed 11-Sep-13 21:56:57

I've said it on here before & I'll say it again:

Nobody tells you that there will be a day in the first week (or so) when your baby will feed around the clock.

It's the hardest day but they are establishing feeding.

You go girl!

nilbyname Wed 11-Sep-13 21:58:28

Have you tried a wrap sling? Stuck dd in there all snug, she might cry for a sec while you get her in there, the have a little walk, pat her and keep talking. She should settle.

Also, yes to a dummy, try and do the switcheroo on her, gentle ease your nipple out and get the dummy in.

Go to bed both of you with tops off for lots of skin to skin, use extra pillows to support feeding on your side, one behind the small of your back, one in front of your tummy.

Call in favours from keen grannies, meals on wheels and pram pushing! Give yourself a 30 minute break xxx

Good luck, sometimes you just have crazy days like that, welcome to parenthood!

janetaylia Wed 11-Sep-13 21:59:51

this has taken me back 13 years to when DD was born! the dummy was deployed at exactly 10 days for this exact reason. once comforting was sorted, it became apparent that she was HUNGRY NOW YES RIGHT NOW. we did formula for last feed of the evening and it got better from there.

i will admit to being so exhaustec at 1am one endless night that i just put her on the sofa and said in a huge fit of weep 'what do you WANT???'. you need sleep. all of you. i really feel for you. brew

Sparklyboots Wed 11-Sep-13 22:02:19

Poor you, you must be knackered. Have a babymoon? Basically go to bed with a stack of DVDs, a massive supply of food, and arrange any and all help towards bringing you teas, cake and managing the housework. It means you are both in situ should a sleep opportunity arise, you get lots of skin contact to help with establishing supply, and you make a glorious snuggly event out of an otherwise hard time.

You may be in a growth spurt which will end in 24-36 hrs- the extra sucking and crying ups the supply so don't worry that it's all going wrong - it's temporary. If she's especially sucky beyond that, consider cranial oesteopathy - not sure of spelling- but basically she might have birth related skull discomfort which is relieved by sucking (& so the theory goes cranial osteowhatever it is). If lying down is the problem, reflux may be an issue so propping her up to sleep may help? & if she's just very tactile and after contact, get a sling - a stretchy Moby saved us at this stage!

Whatever it is, it's going to be over in a flash, honestly - though I appreciate that may seem hard to believe during these long early nights. Do get good bf support - la leche etc will even send someone round if you're struggling. Co-sleeping at this stage is not a long term decision, just get yourself through the nights for now. My first screamed from 6pm-2am the first 3 weeks, then it went steadily down in duration- by 8 weeks I could put him down for the night barring two very sleepy feeds. My 2nd has been much less screamy but it's only recently that she's been behaving as if evening is evening and day is day iyswim. Haven't panicked because I look at my first and can't believe how quickly it all went!

Good luck babe, everyone's rooting for you.

BonaDea Wed 11-Sep-13 22:03:11

Oh bless you. Your baby is so tiny still. No one told me this before but honestly these first few weeks are just the hardest thing ever. I remember trying to sit down to eat something at around the two week mark and DS starting to cry for milk as soon as I lifted my fork. I wept.

I absolutely promise you that this wont last. The first few weeks are just about survival for all of you and it will get better daily.

Don't give up breastfeeding just because of this set back.

This too shall pass. Congratulations!

SweetSeraphim Wed 11-Sep-13 22:07:44

Oh it's just shit at the beginning, so, so hard. I wish I could just take your dd away for a few hours so you can have a good kip. It makes everything so much harder, the relentless lack of rest. Bless you.

Dr Jack Newman - my BFing hero. Saved my BF 'career' more than once

KellyMom - Do Mother's have to love BFing 24 hrs a day?

Dr Sears Fussy Baby - when I read this it felt like he knew DS1.

Lots of good advice on here.
Hope you get over this 'bump' soon.

BigW Wed 11-Sep-13 22:14:27

Much love to you and congratulations on the birth of your DD. There are so many things that I didn't realise about the early days of motherhood, especially when trying to establish breastfeeding. It's so much harder than you can ever imagine. The emotional side is exhausting too. But it will pass. You are doing really well. It gets easier, I absolutely promise.

Everyone will tell you the same thing and you won't entirely believe us because it's all too foggy at the moment and you can't really see past tonight, let alone to coming months.

Keep doing it, one feed at a time. And give her a dummy!!


wickeddevil Wed 11-Sep-13 22:23:02

Hi and congratulations.

I agree with posters saying an emergency FF might help you to maintain your sanity (and your bf) by giving you a brief respite.

Mad as this sounds it is normal for babies to cry..... Bloody hard if your their mum, but you can put them down and have a wee and a drink. I was really rubbish at that the first time.

A nice thing to try is for you to give you LO a massage and get your DH/DP to sit behind you and massage you at the same time. This can help to de-stress all three of you.

Good luck x

CleanAllTheThings Wed 11-Sep-13 23:15:40

Thank you all for the replies, I really appreciate it. Will try to answer as much as I can but apologies if I miss anything. Thanks for the links.

She went down for 40 mins so we were able to get a little snooze and I feel better for it. Amazing what a difference a few minutes can make. She did an enormous reassuring poo as well.
She has just fed properly for half an hour and gine back to sleep. i think I am going to try the dummy if she gets very fussy again.

We have seen a breastfeeding practitioner and they said her latch is fine. Planning on going to the local breastfeeding cafe tomorrow afternoon

With the growth spurt/ building up supply- would that still be so if she isn't actually drinking?

Midwives haven't done the pnd questions but I think this is just normal first time mum worry. I've got a history of depression and it doesn't feel the same and most of the time I really enjoy my little girl. I'm just exhausted.

Half believe those of you that say it will get better smile

Sparklyboots Wed 11-Sep-13 23:34:26

I was told that that non-drinking fluttery sucking is part of helping to.establish supply. I with whom I really struggled to establish supply, and one baby who was a dream - didn't even lose any weight at birth. Differences were that I was more relaxed an got more sleep because I properly took the advice to sleep.when she was sleeping. My advice would therefore be, do whatever it take to have you as relaxed.and.rested as is possible, but don't sweat too much because they come how they come.and there's a.limit to what you can do to Change.what kind of baby they are.

Apols for.the typos - feed typing!

MissAntithetic Wed 11-Sep-13 23:37:54

Sounds pretty normal to me (sorry I used to hate it when people told me that!!)

Things I found helped were;

Sleeping little as often as possible (wasn't evough but kept me away from dangerous sleep deprivation)

Lots of food.

Lots of fluids


Feeding laying down

A vibraty rocker was a god send! Was the only place I could put her down for 5 minutes!

I know it seems impossible. When my dd was 2 weeks old I screamed at my dp at 2am to go get me some fucking formula from Tesco. He refused. Took the baby from me and ordered me to sleep. She didn't like it but he managed to keep her relatively quiet for 3 hours.

I still bf now at 12 months.

I found a dummy worked well for the times when I just couldn't take it any more but the rest of the time I let her suck. By four weeks it was calming, little peak again for a few days at 6 weeks and it continued getting better.

MissAntithetic Wed 11-Sep-13 23:38:39

Oh and she refused the dummy once she was 4 months old

Lovemyfamily Wed 11-Sep-13 23:47:02

Hi, my dd was the same, I didn't Breast feed her, she was fed by bottle, and feeding wasn't the issue, she just wanted to be held all the time and every time I put her down she cried.. It's draining and difficult but it will get better I promise you, my dd is still very clingy with me still at the age of five but I've learned that she is just a very loving little girl who loves me so much she can't get enough! She needs thousands of cuddles, kisses and reassurance every day, but all the loves and cuddles and tiredness was all worth it,as we are know so close,, I used to talk to her sometimes all night and she would just stare up at me and listen not long after doing this for a while she started to settle, I would wrap her arms in tight inside her blanket (crossed over) and when she fell asleep I would put her down, but she didn't know any different as she was tucked in her blanket it was like she was still in my arms,, you can also try a dummy to, just to give her extra comfort? Not ideal but it does work. Maybe your little angel is the same?

She's not using you as a dummy , a dummy is a synthetic nipple after all. She's doing what she needs to in order to feel secure and up your milk supply.

That's the cold, hard fact of the matter.


God it's hard and soul destroying. Neither of mine took to a dummy, I'd have given anything for them to have done though! Excellent advice on here already, so just to underline what's already been said:

You're doing everything right.
It will pass very soon
Lots of fluids
Go with the flow.

Good luck x

Alizzle Wed 11-Sep-13 23:58:10

you are going great. you seem to be doing everything right even if it doesn't seem like it atm. keep at it... keep away from ff if you have an instinct they don't need it, same with dummies. I do support getting Dh or someone else taking through baby for a walk after a feed (this is CRUCIAL) OUT OF THE HOUSE so you can have a shower and a snooze and possibl y watch a little telly. if you are anything like me, if you can hear the baby you won't rest. you will feel better and this shall pass. Big hugs.

ps if you do decide to give ff, fair play. I myself did after 6 days(well done you) and wish I'd have combo fed til my supply ran out. the relief was immense though that was another story. xxx

VegasIsBest Thu 12-Sep-13 00:04:46

Congratulations on your beautiful baby :-)

Have you considered bottle feeding if breastfeeding isn't working out?Despite what many people will tell you, there really is no long term issue with this, provided your baby is healthy and happy. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

mum21boy Thu 12-Sep-13 00:06:18

God I remember those dark days/nights!! And I'm still going through it in a way. I found it hard to feed lying down, but then I used a nipple shield and that really helped him to latch on. Got rid of the shield once we got the hang of it, but it saved my sanity once I could feed lying down!
Mine is using me as dummy too, but I don't mind it so much. If you need to use a dummy or ff just do it to get you through these moments. In the grand scheme of things it's not a bad thing if it gives you a break. I did both during the early months and it helped me to ebf in the end and have me some rest.
Good luck with it all.....I swear it will soon pass and you will have a different baby you won't want to give back!! smile

BeaWheesht Thu 12-Sep-13 00:11:31

Nothing to add other than been there, done that, got 2 t shirts!

The thing I've learnt about babies is that there's no point trying to understand them. They make no sense. There is no rhyme and reason to their 'behaviour' other than they think you are them and they are you therefore when they discover you're not there its a bit like waking up and discovering your arms have gone walkabout! Thing is you need to function too so sometimes you need to sleep / wash / just have a break from being constantly on demand.

With dc2 I found it all so overwhelming sometimes, I just wanted a bit of space both physically and mentally. It's exhausting. It does get easier though but I remember reading similar and thinking 'it might not for us' but it will.

Also remember babies are babies for a short time even though every sleep deprived minute feels like hours. They change so quickly, one day you will just realise that actually he's getting easier and you're getting more confident and its all just slotting into place a bit better.

Congratulations on your dd, my own dd is 3 this month and whilst she's adorable and lovely and fun and perfect sometimes I long for her early days so I could just look at her and touch her fingers so they grasp mine and just be her whole universe again.

pinkbear82 Thu 12-Sep-13 00:39:55

First time mum to a 14 wk old little milk monster girl here. Bf as well. I did introduce a dummy around the 2 week mark and it helped loads - a) it gave my nipples a rest and b) dd was comforted and fed better as a result of not constantly getting little bits.
It didn't affect my flow at all - still produce a fantastic amount and dd happy.

Not sure if already mentioned but try infacol, lifesaver with helping to ease wind, saved me pulling out at least half my hair.

Around 3 weeks I started expressing and using the odd bottle here and there, reassured me she was getting enough.

You are doing fantastic, I can't recommend anything other than matchsticks for the lack of sleep, oddly you do get used to it. Don't feel disheartened. If you want to pm me feel free, I'm no expert, but I did find as frustrating as it can be, knowing others were/have been through similar a bit of help.

IceBeing Thu 12-Sep-13 00:53:48

Ahh yes that first growth spurt...brutal but thankfully short lived!

If you can limp through the next day or so then you may well be cruising by the end of the week.

Their tummies grow so fast!

I hope you have gotten a bit of sleep and are feeling a little better.

Boosiehs Thu 12-Sep-13 02:46:15

I think my week old DS has just hit the growth spurt. Seems like he's fed every hour at least for the past 12 hours. Soooooo tired!!!

Is just going with it the best plan? No dummies yet, still worried about getting nipple confusion.

Not sure why he needed a growth spurt as he was already over 4 kilos. Meh!!!!

CleanAllTheThings Thu 12-Sep-13 03:31:53

lovemyfamily that's why im reluctant to stop bf because she will still want to be with her mum all the time.

We got a couple of hours sleep and she's just fed for the last hour. Waiting for her to be properly out of it now.

I woke up in a panic convinced she was in bed with me but couldn't find her. She was of course asleep next to me in the Moses basket. It was really weird.

boosiehs sounds like we just have to go with it!

cogitosum Thu 12-Sep-13 05:44:24

Ds is 6 weeks and was exactly the same. He fed constantly and didn't sleep for any more than an hour. He's now feeding having been asleep for 5 hours! At 10 days I was close to falling apart but it gets so much easier as they get older. I found things improved at 2 weeks then weekly.

The constant feeding early on has given me a god supply do it is wort it!

I still wake up in those panics now!

beginnings Thu 12-Sep-13 06:07:07

clean congratulations on your little one. I've nothing to add to the bf advice except to reiterate that it does get better! Promise!

On the losing her in the bed panic, that happened to me twice, one of them when she was about 10 days and I'd retreated to the spare room for a while between feeds. It's terrifying but also stops! Mx

beginnings Thu 12-Sep-13 06:08:41

Stupid phone....

May the force be with you for the next little while! In a couple of weeks you won't know yourself! It'll all be very different.

BigW Thu 12-Sep-13 07:38:08

Clean I have had that exact dream!

My DS was like this and I always thought that with number 2 I would get some kind of sling so I am not glued to the sofa the entire time. I'm sure people on here will be able to give you recommendations.

notanyanymore Thu 12-Sep-13 07:46:10

I don't know why no one warns you about the day 10 growth spurt, I only found out because I had my first at the same time as my sister had her 4th (all breast fed) and I rang her in tears. She's reminded me for my next 2!
It really does get better!!!!

Chocolatestain Thu 12-Sep-13 09:15:15

Sometimes I think that, in their eagerness to promote breastfeeding, health professionals don't warn you how damn tough it can be. Then it hits you like freight train and you think you must be doing it wrong. You're doing fine and it will get better.
In the meantime, the occassional bottle of formula if you are really struggling and you think your baby is over-hungry wont do any harm. DS was exclusively bf apart from two or three bottles of formula in the very early days when I was shattered and my supply has been fine since. Also, if you feel she is sucking for comfort rather than for food (and as you get to know her better you'll notice the difference in suck) then a dummy is fine. It was a lifesaver with DS, didn't affect my supply and he weaned himself off it at six months. A dummy should never be used to mask hunger, but a lot of babies like to suck for comfort and if she sucks on you continually it will just make you sore. With a dummy, you can then snuggle up with her in a position that allows you to rest. And if you're rested that will help your supply more than her continually sucking and exhausting you.
And if it all gets too much, switching to formula is not the end of the world. Who's to say a formula-fed baby with a happy relaxed mum isn't better off than a bf one with a stressed, exhausted mum? (Although if you can keep going, it gets so much easier and is then really convenient for you as we'll as being good for your baby)

Tailtwister Thu 12-Sep-13 09:16:04

I can sympathise, it's very hard when they won't be put down and you can't get a break. However, at 10 days she's still establishing your milk supply so I would try to hold back on formula if you can.

Can you visit a breastfeeding group and get her latch checked? Maybe it just needs a little adjustment?

A stretchy wrap like a Moby is also very useful.

It will get better I promise:-)

Aw, you sound a bit less desperate - lovely smile.

Here's hoping for a good day for you.

CleanAllTheThings Thu 12-Sep-13 10:40:42

No one warned me about the constant feeding, bf team just said feeds should be 5-30 mins and not longer than 40mns all the time. Her feeds are usually way longer.

She slept for 3 hrs this morning!! Heaven.

I now think she has caught thrush from me so we are off to docs shortly.

Make sure you get proper thrush treatment - I take it you mean you have thrush at your nipples/breast?? Or vaginally?

Here is a good info leaflet from the Breastfeeding Network re thrush and BFing and appropriate treatment (a lot of GPs don't know about this), but it is important that other causes of sore nipples are ruled out as they are more common.

Do you have pain on latching and then it goes, or does the pain continue as the feed goes on? The latter would be more suggestive of thrush.

EasyMark Thu 12-Sep-13 12:02:22

I think every new mum should be told bf takes ages and you may well be on the sofa feeding all day so you should invest in a few good box set of dvds and a moby wrap for dh to take the baby so you can sleep. Its really hard to bf but every time she is on think about the milk she is getting and that it will help her grow.

You are doing a great job xx

CleanAllTheThings Thu 12-Sep-13 12:29:41

It's vaginal thrush. Been prescribed Nystan for baby and advised to ask my midwife to have a look at me as I had an episiotomy. My nipples seem fine but dd definitely has it on her tongue.

Feel really anxious in my chest today. Not sure if this is normal. I'm not tearful, wasn't last night either. Think I'm worrying about what is to come later. Feel a bit like I want to get away.

Gave her a dummy in the car as we had to rush out for nurse app and it did keep her calm. Didnt like seeing it on her little face though.

CleanAllTheThings Thu 12-Sep-13 12:30:47

Meant to say thanks for that info, will have a look now.

Still to convinced she is getting enough milk.

CleanAllTheThings Thu 12-Sep-13 15:39:03

We went to the bf cafe and they have diagnosed tongue tie! So relieved to know there is something. Feel like a weight has been lifted. They also showed me how to use the sling and she is cosied up asleep and I have BOTH HANDS FREE. Amazing.

Tailtwister Thu 12-Sep-13 15:44:30

Glad to hear you've got somewhere and have had some help CleanAll. What have they suggested for the tongue tie?


Yeah to slings grin!!

And hope you get the TT fixed soon.

I was under the impression that there is little point in treating one of you and not the other for thrush? May be wrong... Any experts?

CleanAllTheThings Thu 12-Sep-13 16:12:54

The nurse was rubbish this morning but spoke to my gp and she has given me a prescription for tablets too.

They have suggested getting the tongue tie snipped, just have to wait for an appointment. She must be wearing herself out trying to get enough milk. She has all the classic symptoms like lip blister and clicking during feeds. My latch is totally fine.

poppingin1 Thu 12-Sep-13 16:17:47

Oh your OP takes me back.

Some babies are just like this, I know my DD was!

It will pass, just try not to focus on it and relax in a comfy chair somewhere with the remote and something you are craving that isn't necessarily the healthiest option.

poppingin1 Thu 12-Sep-13 16:23:31

Just read on and saw your post about the tongue tie. No experience of tongue tie but hope it is sorted soon.

I remember using my sling daily, it was a life saver. I also bought a swinging chair and it was the only thing DD would sleep in other than when she was attached to me. I slept sitting up with her on my chest till she was 3 months and then lying down with her on my chest till she was 6 months.

monstergoose Thu 12-Sep-13 17:44:13

My dd had a TT which we has snipped at about 2wks. It was absolutely fine, she was asleep right up until he did it, just stirred when he snipped it and then went back to asleep again! Feeding was so much better afterwards, much less painful for me and she fed more effectively. It did take a few days after it was snipped to start getting better tho ago don't expect an immediate improvement.

Good luck with it x

1944girl Thu 12-Sep-13 18:00:57

I can remember this all too well.
My DS2 was FF and he screamed day and night till 3 months old.Would not be put down.I tried a dummy but he would spit it out after a few minutes.He is 41 now.

CleanAllTheThings Thu 12-Sep-13 18:09:20

Her bottom is really red and sore so I think she might need thrush cream for it. The gp left me a prescription for a tablet and lansinoh for some reason. Will have to ring them again tomorrow.

Smartiepants79 Thu 12-Sep-13 18:19:36

Try the dummy. An hour or so of peaceful sleep for both of you is going to do no harm. She may not take it though but it might be a bit of a life saver.
Also agree with others, an occasional bottle will not matter! I would feed her this evening until you are fed up then try topping her up and see if she will settle. I mixed fed very successfully with both of mine. First one for 8 weeks til she refused the bottle and second one for 8 months til she refused the bottle! They are both breastfed til after their first birthday.
Also have you tried white noise and swaddling? Both these saved my life for my DC. Miracle blankets are your friend.
Try not to feel guilty, just do the things you need to do to make life a bit happier for all of you.

pinkbear82 Thu 12-Sep-13 21:01:59

I hear lots of people swear by Ewan the dream sheep - might be worth a try to help settle

ThisIsBULLSHIT Thu 12-Sep-13 21:15:03

Oh wow, at least you know what's going on now. That sounds very sortable too!

You sound much happier. Still watch yourself though. Anxiety and wanting to get away could be an indicator. Hope it's not though, just be aware of yourself. (Am speaking from bitter and sad experience)

Yeay for the sling and dummy! And SLEEEEEEEEP!

CleanAllTheThings Thu 12-Sep-13 21:21:03

Will keep checking myself. Hopefully just normal new mum stuff. I was on ADs for years but stopped when I found out I was pregnant and have been fine throughout. Pregnancy was good for my mental health! Don't fancy going down that road again.

My nipples are starting to feel really irritated. Yay.

ThisIsBULLSHIT Thu 12-Sep-13 21:29:12

sad oh poo, did you get your tablets? Hope it clears up soon.

Maybe pregnancy kind of got rid of it then! I was the opposite, it caused it! Grrrr. All gone now though!

Good luck and keep trucking, honestly it will gradually get better and as long as you sleep when your baby sleeps you will survive. One day you will just notice that it feels better! Hurry up that day!

CleanAllTheThings Thu 12-Sep-13 22:16:14

Just one tablet. The leaflet from the bf practitioner says i should have a high dose followed by further tablets for 10 days, plus topical nipple treatment and baby's treatment. Going to get on at the gp in the morning as this is the last thing we need! I keep reading this can get really bad and go on for months.

And thank you smile

lifesobeautiful Thu 12-Sep-13 23:36:49

Haven't read through all the posts, but I can see you've got lots of support from lovely mums. I just wanted to add my tiny bit (without wishing to infuriate anti-formula mums...) but I felt like this to, and I eventually gave my DS a bottle on Day 12 after an agonising 10 days of breastfeeding.

He latched on to that bottle like there was no tomorrow and was a totally different and calmer baby instantly... Breastfeeding is wonderful if it works for you, but personally I think your sanity and happiness - if it's at stake - is more important. And that happiness is passed onto your baby. I've bottle fed both my babies (and I would have LOVED to breastfeed) and they have both been perfectly healthy - and in fact my first has had far less illnesses than his two close friends who were breastfed till they were 1.

If you continue feeling like this, don't dismiss formula. And don't feel guilty. Good luck, it does get so much better I promise you! I felt this way too and I worship my two little ones!

lifesobeautiful Thu 12-Sep-13 23:38:17

Superstitiousness just kicked in...they have been perfectly healthy up till now touch wood! Sorry...

IceBeing Fri 13-Sep-13 09:28:32

clean I hope you are still feeling positive today!

I think thrush usually hangs around because it is so poorly diagnosed. If you get straight on the treatment it should be fine.

I hope the tongue tie appointment comes soon, and I am so happy to see you got some help and support from a BF cafe!

CleanAllTheThings Fri 13-Sep-13 10:01:22

We are going back to see gp at lunch time! My nipples went white and uncomfortable in the night. Yay.

I was so impressed with the bf cafe, everyone was so supportive and I want to try to go back on my own next week as oh is back at work on Monday (terrifying).

Today I feel...ok. Still all feels a bit much when I hear her starting to wake and snuffle for a feed but we are getting 2-3 hrs rest in between at the moment. Have even managed successful transfer to her bed by waiting until she is properly asleep, swaddling half way through a feed and putting hot water bottle in to warm mattress up.

I'm nearly 30 but still keep feeling freaked out at the responsibility of it all and that this is permanent!

GingerDoodle Fri 13-Sep-13 10:03:48

Im not sure if anyone has said this but - if you find you don't want to continue breast feeding there is nothing wrong with that choice!

IceBeing Fri 13-Sep-13 10:16:31

ginger you can read the thread if you want to find out what other people have said....

CleanAllTheThings Fri 13-Sep-13 10:19:07

That last post was a bit of a lie. I keep feeling that I don't want her. I don't know if I love her. I don't like it when she is upset but I don't want to deal with it.

IceBeing Fri 13-Sep-13 10:20:00

clean I think I almost developed a phobia of hearing DD snuffle in a 'I am about to wake up' way..

But 2-3hrs gap is starting to sound more promising...establishing a bit of a cycle of a deeper feed then a bigger gap is definitely an encouraging sign!

It is so very odd that babies need to learn how to sleep...but they do and it sounds like yours is starting (fingers crossed) to get the hang!

I hope the GP visit goes well!

IceBeing Fri 13-Sep-13 10:23:46

Oh clean that is okay you really is. You don't know her don't understand her, so really why should you be able to love her yet?

Don't panic and don't feel like you are in the wrong. Not everyone's reaction to being landed with a life form whose only method of communication is to yell at you is flat out unconditional joy and happiness!

Don't answer if you don't want (obvs) but did you have a hard birth (aren't they all?) or pregnancy?

IceBeing Fri 13-Sep-13 10:32:05

Okay now I feel like I am bombarding you and probably projecting as well.

But, actually your DD isn't really upset! She is crying because she has a want/need and she can't communicate any other way.

I found having a baby so hard because I HATE confrontation...I mean how bad would a situation be in normal non-baby life if someone had resorted to actually screaming crying and yelling at you?

I found it really hard not to feel the same way I would if an adult screamed at me...

So now my toddler says 'moooore fooooood' when she is hungry and it is so much easier to bear than crying....but that is all the cry is...try and HEAR it as a simple request for food/nappy/comfort/winding rather than an expression of distress....

CleanAllTheThings Fri 13-Sep-13 10:33:27

The birth was harder than I expected. My contractions stopped during pushing and she got distressed so had hormone drip after being threatened with spinal and having her pulled out in theatre. Then I had a big bleed so couldn't hold her for a while, she was only on my chest until placenta came out quickly and then taken off me while they stabilised me and then stitched and cleaned me up. Spent the next 12 hrs hooked up to monitors and cannulas, stuck in bed and couldn't hold her because I was so uncomfortable, stressed and spaced out from blood loss. It was horrible.

MrsRoss26 Fri 13-Sep-13 10:43:25

Clean I have been reading and thinking I've been / am in the same place as you. My lo is 7wks old and I have had the baby blues, struggling with her growth spurts, her being a Velcro baby, bfing...

It's been getting better since I've learned to interpret some of her crying, we've got the hang of bfing, and her sleep pattern had emerged. But we still haven't bonded, I feel guilty all the time and being at home alone with her all day is HARD.

You mentioned white nipples: I have this. After reading I think it'd something called Reynauds - may be something worth looking up before your doc app so you can ask specifically about that? I find covering my nipples asap after a feed helps, and trying to keep them warm generally.

It will get better. But in the meantime keep talking, that helps more than anything else!

MrsRoss26 Fri 13-Sep-13 10:45:16

Oops, meant to add, I had a similar birth experience, with pre-eclampsia too, so that definitely has had an impact on my health.

MrsWildermac Fri 13-Sep-13 11:03:59

Clean everything you've said was me five weeks ago...every time DD cried, I wanted to cry with frustration, I was too tired to feed her and felt that there was no other way she would settle. I didn't feel I loved her and felt so guilty about it. One night was TERRIBLE. She screamed for hours, non-stop. I even phoned the midwives at the post natal ward to ask their advice (none of their suggestions worked!). Eventually phoned my auntie who suggested a bottle of formula and within15 mins she was a ddifferent child, so happy and content! She then slept for four hours solid which meant I got a proper sleep and that was what I neededto start feeling normal!

Hope things start looking up for you soon!

Sparklyboots Fri 13-Sep-13 12:16:59

Oh, I recognise the 'not sure I love' feeling.I think it's quite common? Don't worry if you're not feeling hearts and butterflies in the middle of all this. Also, it's hardly surprising that you don't want to deal with her snuffling;'after all, dealing with it has been painful and frustrating plus you're as knackered as a person can get, quite worried, AND you've barely met her. It's hardly the stuff of a Hallmark card.... The trick is to remember is that she doesn't need you to FEEL love, she needs you to ACT lovingly. That means seeing to her needs and treating her kindly. IME the loving feelings build themselves over time, but as long as you can commit to meeting her needs and treating her kindly, you and she will do fine.

Have you read the "New baby - instantly familiar?" discussion of the day? Tres reassuring, in this context.

IceBeing Fri 13-Sep-13 15:04:22

clean ah okay so that sounds like a pretty damn horrible experience.

You know it really isn't okay that we have to experience these things. They aren't just something to ignore and get over. If that had happened without the baby being involved you would probably be lying at home being waited on by worried would be giving yourself time and space to process the experience and to recover your physical and mental strength.

Instead because there was a baby involved it is all somehow normal and you feel expected to cope, not only with your own recovery but with a new life to look after as well.

Not to put too fine a point on it but this sucks ass.

So please please go as easy on yourself as you can. Spread the load in any way you can and remember that you are in recovery from a fairly major medical procedure involving substantial blood loss. People need to be looking after you where ever it is even slightly possible.

CleanAllTheThings Fri 13-Sep-13 17:33:04

Dh has had her in the sling so I could get some rest. Still don't want her but am doing all I can and feeding her when she needs it. What a horrible thing to say, sorry.

GP was good and didnt try to give me antidepressants. She did say i should give her a bottle so I get a break every day but not sure. Feeding is getting better and she is going2-3 hrly now. We got proper thrush treatment too.

Oh, good re proper thrush treatment - well done for going back!

There is another thread on here about whether people 'knew' their baby as soon as they were born - it's a very eyeopening read.

I have had 4 DCs and have had different feeding experiences and of course they are different personalities so some were 'easier' babies than others (I am looking at you DS1 grin).
I much better suited to looking after walking/talking children; I just don't particularly enjoy babies and tantrumming toddlers. It took me ages to love my kids - DH usually fell in love in the delivery room grin.

So. You've had depression before; at least you know what symptoms to look out for and seek help early, rather than waiting to be really ill.
Right now you are a new mother, you've never done this before, your DD did not come with an instruction manual or if she did, she did not read it. You are finding this HARD, yet you are still doing it.

That's quite awsome, isn't it? smile

Keep going.
I'd be cautious with a bottle of formula every day (topping up after BF destroyed my supply with DS1, but I could bore you to tears with stories about how difficult he was to look after as a baby), but I don't think you should hesitate to give some FF when you need a break.

White nipples can be (in decreasing order of likelyhood) poor latch, thrush, Raynauds.

Reasons to be proud

I don't think that this gets posted enough grin

jessthefletch Fri 13-Sep-13 19:56:51

Op, congratulations and well done - you are doing fantastically.

My ds is 11 days and we've had similar experiences with feeding. At night he's been feeding for four hour sessions, eventually fall asleep on the boob, we'd try to put him down but he'd scream until he was cuddled... and so the pattern continues! First community midwife said he just is a hungry baby (still not made up his birth weight), that it's 'completely normal' for him to want to be on me all the time and I'm ensuring my supply will meet his demands...

I've had the emergency formula staring at me from the bedside table and DH particularly wanted us to introduce one bottle in the nights so he could take some of the pressure off me. BUT I've been so worried about the 'teat confusion' the hospital midwives and the health visitor kept banging on about that I was too scared to un-do all the good work we'd done getting his latch right.

However, yesterday a different midwife came and said it won't harm to give one bottle of formula or expressed milk, that me sleeping is as important as exclusive breast-time. She also suggested lying on his mattress cover whilst feeding so it gets warm and has our smell then lie him in it to transfer him to his basket. She also explained how we could safely co-sleep and that it was safer to co-sleep than breast-feed sitting up and risking falling asleep that way (which I admit, I've done a couple of times and scared myself) I was really nervous and reluctant about co-sleeping but we did feel empowered after her visit because a professional had okayed it, and we felt we had some artillery against the night!

It did work last night; he slept next to me for five hours after his bottle of mixed expressed and formula. I was terrified when I woke to find what time it was and had to check he was breathing! Obviously, now we have the fear that it won't work again tonight but I felt more human this morning and like I can deal with tonight a bit better.

It sounds like you have had lots of positive developments and I in no way think that my way is the answer (or assume you've not tried these also) but I hope you know you're not alone in all this!

HCPs really should give more of a sense of the reality of bf. Perhaps they don't want to put people off but I know that if I'd been given a more realistic idea, even just about the length of time I could expect to be feeding for, that I would've been more emotionally prepared for it.

CleanAllTheThings Fri 13-Sep-13 20:45:58

I've not seen that before pacific I'm holding on to it!

Feel a tiny bit brighter this evening. She has been feeding constantly but I feel better about it and she has been making me laugh with how alert she's been.

jessthefletch awesome midwife! Hope it continues to work for you. how much formula did you give him? Really good to know I'm not alone. Personal question so feel free not to answer but how were your breasts in the morning?
The breastfeedng team here are very pro cosleeping, we tried it he other morning but I couldn't really relax enough to sleep curled around her and me t wanting to turn over but daren't. I bought a sleepyhead bed guard which we put in the bedside crib and she sleeps well in it if we warm the mattress and have wrapped her up.

jessthefletch Fri 13-Sep-13 21:13:54

So glad you're feeling brighter! Ds has been lots more alert today and yesterday too...eyes actually open when feeding and looking at me which is new and interesting.

Yes, lovely midwife! I had a bit of a cry to her about it all and she said she was sorry to be rude and look at her notes but she was worried she'd cry with me otherwise!

I'm the opposite about the co-sleeping because I was naturally dropping off anyway so it is more the worry and feeling guilty afterwards when I jolt awake. Hoping that if it happens again tonight in a planned way I will be less panicky afterwards.

The midwife reassured me that if I followed all the advice that I would not squish him and that expecting babies to sleep in a cot and get into a strict routine quickly is a very Western world ideal and actually quite unrealistic... she also said that our perception of our baby's safety/needs is very acute when bf so we will wake when they stir.

Sorry, went on a bit there and you probably know all that anyway so apologies!

My boobs were actually feeling really full again this morning - I had been worrying because they'd become so soft, like empty sacks but having a break seems to have done them the world of good because it meant I could express more for tonight. We gave three ounces from the bottle.

CleanAllTheThings Fri 13-Sep-13 21:22:08

I am amazed how soon I wake up when she starts stirring, I used to be such a heavy sleeper and worried I would never wake up for a baby!

When she is a bit bigger i would like her in just the bedside crib so I can cuddle up to her but its too big and scary for her just now.

with all three of my babies i had at least one epic 10 hour feed. and it did settle down after that.

with the dummy:


how would you feel if you were upset and someone shoved something in your mouth (not a boob)??

so try it when she's happy a few times. then try it when she cries. hopefully the good associations with it will stick with her and you'll have more success.

i also struggled with my first, there wasn't a connection at first. but it resolved itself and we are very close. it was very different with the other two.

good luck. hang in there. no-one tells you how utterly shit it can be. and you just can't imagine it.

my lovely sil said to me 'the night is the darkest just before the dawn.' and it's so true.

hang in there.

Oh, I ment to say earlier: I used to feel physically sick when I heard one of mine cry - other people's babies' crying does not bother me in that stomach-turning, queasy kind of way at all.

DS1 turned me into a much more 'hippie' mum wink than I ever thought I'd be: co-sleeping, sling-wearing, almost Attachment Parenting stylee - not naturally me, believe me! But anything to survive...

Sparklyboots Fri 13-Sep-13 23:50:16

Darling, if alertness makes you smile, just you wait for smiling and giggling. Also, when they watch their own hands because they've just realised they are, in fact, their very own hands. And trying to speak! But just gurgling and hicupping! Also fab. And raising their arms when they see you, because they want to be lifted up, tis lovely, because they save it for you. Hilarious first attempts at crawling are also great. Grabbing food off your plate and ramming it in the general direction of their mouths I find very endearing because it reminds me of their father but I may be alone in that. There are a million of these sort of things to come...

CleanAllTheThings Sat 14-Sep-13 03:12:37

sparkly that really made me smile!

She cluster fed for 4 hrs yesterday evening (and it was mainly proper feeding) and has just slept for nearly 6 which seems crazy but god I needed that rest! I guess she would have woken sooner if she needed too though?

MrsRoss26 Sat 14-Sep-13 04:49:45

Definitely! They certainly know when they're hungry, and you really would know it if she needed you again. Don't wake her unless you really think something is wrong!

Smartiepants79 Sat 14-Sep-13 10:43:30

Your birth sound very similar to mine. My Dd also ended up in NICU as well.
It was weeks before I could honestly say I'd bonded with her at all. And probably months before I 'loved' her.
They take so much and give so little back!
She in three now and has an 8 months old sister(similar if slightly quicker bonding experience) and they are my world.
The love will come, I promise. It is totally normal to feel the way you do especially as you've had such a hard start.
Try not to feel guilty or hard on yourself.

CleanAllTheThings Sat 14-Sep-13 19:34:13

Had a total meltdown. Midwife came out and wanted to admit me for assessment but agreed to a gp visit instead. He is coming to prescribe something. Gutted I've gone down this road again.

BeaWheesht Sat 14-Sep-13 19:46:12

Try not to be gutted, you're doing well, really you are. The midwife and GP are there to look after your, it's their job.

IceBeing Sat 14-Sep-13 21:05:09

clean please try to remember that you are recovering from a serious medical procedure and don't set unrealistic expectations of yourself.

It is so very hard and you are not even in the minority in finding it this hard.

Thinking of you thanks

flowersinavase Sat 14-Sep-13 21:11:46

Just wanted to congratulate you OP on your determination to BF.

FF can seem like the easy option, but it simply isn't the same as BF.

So well done you: you're giving that baby the best start you possibly can.

Clean, please don't be gutted!
Embrace the offer of assessment by your GP - I bet he/she is not coming to 'prescribe something' but to see whether medication is likely to help you. And if you've had a good response to medication before, then why not take it?
You want to be able to think back of the first few weeks and months with your DD with fondness, so go with whatever might help you get there.

Be kind to yourself. Which includes NOT beating yourself up about not feeling well. Please. smile

catchingzeds Sat 14-Sep-13 22:10:02

My heart goes out to you. Reminds me so much of my first year with DS1, I can't say I enjoyed it at all and I don't think I fell in love with him for months. I spent his first 12 months feeling physically sick and gripped by panic. I was completely overwhelmed and terrified of the enormity of the responsibility. I believe BF made this much worse, I could never switch off or share the burden and sobbed during most feeds. I was exhausted and think my hormones were going mental trying to keep up with the demand for milk.

I think it's amazing you're reaching out for help I so wish I had. Be totally honest and get the help you need. You're absolutely doing the right thing.

To give you hope DS1 and I became the best of friends, he is 7 now and I couldn't adore him more.
I never thought I would have more children, I was terrified of going back there. DS2 arrived a year ago, I FF from the start and it has been a totally different experience. I can honestly say I have loved every minute. The biggest change has been that it feels DH and I are a team this time, equal in every way.

I so hope you get the help you need, you're not alone lots of women go through this it's just that not enough are honest about it.


Smartiepants79 Sat 14-Sep-13 22:22:27

I agree with the previous posters.
Enjoying your baby is the MOST important thing.
BF is good and if its important to you, do what you need to to stick with it BUT not at the expense of everything else.
Looking after you is just as important.

Sparklyboots Sat 14-Sep-13 23:40:14

Bad luck Clean. Obviously it's not what you wanted but please don't waste energy wishing it had gone another way. Get yourself on steady ground, first babies are hard enough without adding uncertainty into the mix. Your posts have sounded like you lack confidence in your ability to cope, and living with the feeling you might not is probably not conducive to your enjoyment of your baby, to say the least. Once you're sure you'll cope, everything that is difficult becomes less threatening and more just-a-bit-irritating. And you can get on with lying on the sofa, accepting tea and biscuits and staring at your baby while she gets delightfully more.and more awake

CleanAllTheThings Sun 15-Sep-13 05:58:02

She had to have a bottle of formula yesterday but I have been feeding her since.
Wish I didn't feel like this, i just want to enjoy my baby. Its not fair.

The gp didn't give me anything, said he wants my gp to be involved and antidepressants won't hope straig away so I can wait til Monday basically. Midwife still keen for me to go back onto the ward for support with her but I know this wold make me feel worse, like they were watching me all the time and I'd have to do it all by myself. Tonight I have been feeding her and giving her back to my partner.

Feel so sad.

matilda101 Sun 15-Sep-13 06:05:19

Growth spurt time!!

I've only just seen this thread.

Clean please don't feel bad, it really sounds like you're doing well and your dd is giving you 2-3hour stretches? That's great! I would definitely keep going back to the bf group as it sounds like they really helped you and made you feel more confident.

It's good that your mw is offering you such good support just keep talking to her and your gp thanks

Hoping you're having a restful Sunday smile

CleanAllTheThings Sun 15-Sep-13 15:10:06

Midwife has ordered skin to skin this afternoon.
I started another thread in the pnd sections as more appropriate.

Oh good, a mini-babymoon smile.

Bed, skin-to-skin, chocolate, remote control, trashy magazines...
I hope you both find it relaxing and enjoyable.

catchingzeds Thu 19-Sep-13 11:19:03

How are you doing? X

CleanAllTheThings Thu 19-Sep-13 13:04:34

Really anxious today. Been on Sertraline since Monday. Today is a bad day and I want to run, it's suffocating. Partner is off for another week thank god.

Baby had her tongue tie snipped yesterday and we have seen a little improvement already which is good. She seems to be unlatching herself which I take to mean she is full.

BeaWheesht Thu 19-Sep-13 13:34:07

The first couple of weeks meds always the hardest. Keep ploughing on through you're doing great.

Dd had her tongue tie snipped too, no long lasting effects smile

catchingzeds Thu 19-Sep-13 18:20:16

One day at a time. The meds will begin to kick in and soon you'll feel a little more in control each day.
Great news your partner is around for another week, you're doing this together.

It's great to hear the the snipped tongue-tie has already made a difference smile - chances are she'll continue to improve in the next week or 2.

Just like you.

You'll feel better in a week or 2 - you will.
Do you know that anxiety can get worse on treatment initially before it then gets better? So don't worry (if you can help it) too much about having felt anxious today.
Here's wishing you a peaceful night (as far as your DD will allow).

CleanAllTheThings Fri 20-Sep-13 10:05:37

Didnt know that but I definitely feel more anxious! Hope it gets better soon.

The night wasn't bad, got nearly a 4 hour stretch at one point.

Partners family are arriving today, staying near by for a week. Bit worried about it. Don't feel comfortable feeding in front of them as she sometimes wont latch on well, so feel like I'm going to be quite restricted. Will have to feed her upstairs when they are here. Don't want to see them everyday. They are aware of the situation so will hopefully be sensitive. They are lovely in small doses!

catchingzeds Sun 22-Sep-13 21:26:19

Hope the visit from your partners family is going ok. I struggled being around people too as I didn't feel confident in caring for DS. I also felt dangerously close to tears most of the time. Disappearing upstairs to feed your DD will give you an excuse to escape for a while!
You will feel better soon and I promise you won't feel like this forever.

chocolatesolveseverything Mon 23-Sep-13 14:54:05

Clean, my heart goes out to you. My DS is 6 weeks and I've also been struggling with pnd. The number of times I've wanted to hand him over to someone and walk away permanently! But gradually it is getting easier honest. We're both going to recover from this illness eventually.

appletarts Mon 23-Sep-13 20:11:30

This is definitely the dreaded day 10 growth spurt. I remember I well and I felt liked I had been run over by the end of it. Your baby is stimulating your milk supply to meet her needs. Don't try a dummy or formula, this is what is meant to happen on day 10 and your are doing great. You have to eat a lot and drink a lot, I remember eating vast amounts of food, make sure it's good food, not junk or snacks. Porridge is brilliant as are potatoes and cheese. You have to just get on that sofa and eat your way through it. The good news is in a couple of days when it is over she will sleep a few good long stretches and you'll be able to catch up. Phone your local birthing centre, they are great and will reassure you that everything is going well. Ps you'd probably regret giving her back ;)

appletarts Mon 23-Sep-13 20:17:20

I'm sorry, i just read whole post and see things are a bit more complicated.

CleanAllTheThings Wed 25-Sep-13 01:18:17

Visit is going well, so much better than I expected! We've been out and about doing normal things which has made me feel so much less trapped. Haven't felt anxious for a couple of days, meds seem to be kicking in a bit. Even fed in a almost empty cafe in town yesterday!

Think we are gearing up for another growth spurt (she was 3 weeks on Sunday) as we've had two evenings of big cluster feeds again but I feel like I can cope with it, I know she is getting enough milk because she is so content the rest of the time.

catchingzeds Wed 25-Sep-13 18:51:41

Oh wow you're doing so well! So pleased for you smile
You were so brave reaching out for help and being proactive in sorting yourself out.
Enjoy your little girl and don't forget there will be wobbles but remind yourself that EVERYONE has those.

Oh wow, you sound SO much happier, v pleased for you smile.
And well done for still BFing and feeding in public.

It is really important to go out - I had to get out of the house at least once a day to not go round the bend, even if it was just going to the local shops with baby in the pram/sling with me.

Glad to hear your enjoying your visitors as well - see, there IS life after having had a baby wink.
Well done, you. Just keep going, one feed at a time, and one day at a time and before you know it she'll be off to school x.

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