Has parenting affected your mental health? Pt 2 - Shades of light and dark.

(581 Posts)
KingRollo Mon 24-Jun-13 11:28:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Feelingood Mon 24-Jun-13 11:34:29


Nap-time has gone in a flash, think I'm hovering in the shade at the mo

<waves to all>

KingRollo Mon 24-Jun-13 11:47:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Biscuitsareme Mon 24-Jun-13 11:47:38

Hello! This is such a great thread!

KingRollo Mon 24-Jun-13 11:47:45

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KingRollo Mon 24-Jun-13 11:48:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Meglet Mon 24-Jun-13 11:51:02

Makking my place. The other one filled up quick didn't it!

Feelingood Mon 24-Jun-13 12:15:03

<flicks switch on> well really I've not done anymore Uni work, I've just gave DD her dummy and switched to disney channel. Im going to see what I can get done in the next hour, as long as DD doesn't come along and try to shut laptop like she did earlier!

kingrollo yes we did. it all moved to divorce very quickly such was the intensity of anger and hate on both sides. That Christmas was the worst ever. But then I had calmed down and started to accept my part in it all (i had become a controlling neurotic bitch but in my defence it was in response to his outward view he seem to have all the time) when he realised I had calmed down properly, he said he wanted to date properly and see if we could just be in each other's company. It took a lot of never - on our first date it was great so much fun and he said everything i needed to hear in the first dew minutes. But then after that I had to be patient he was more measured and we worked through stuff much better slowly, so took another six months after that. We are very happy now, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone as its awful to go through but for us it was worth it - but I'm saying that from a the vantage point of being happy in my marriage.

One of the things we reestablished is a respectful way of speaking to one another even when we need to say 'stuff'. For me personally I had to accept a greater responsibility for my own day to day happiness and not rely on him to cheer me up or make me feel better all the time (I suppose I was quite needy for a time and downtrodden) Whilst he had to refocus his time and energy on the family and spending time with me, being there properly. It was the most stressful thing I have ever been through and I lost two stone in weeks. Just awful as I felt my everything had fallen apart and it broke my heart for DS who was so little at the time.

It can be hard to break habits of patterns of communicating. Just this am I found some hideously stacked dishes in the dishwasher, in the past I would have fired a nasty little text off to DH - now I still swear a bit to myself but I've learnt to let some stuff go, he did try to help so much and really pitched in at weekend. I think recently he has realised how difficult DS is to get ready for school and just how much 'stuff' I have to organise for him e.g outfits/fancy dress, money and slips, homework, reading etc

Just my views - gosh epic posts today!

Ledkr Mon 24-Jun-13 12:18:43

Marking place.
Been at work since 9 and so far have read emails had two drinks a big wee and a biscuit.
Lovely. Nice to be at work lol.

Ledkr Mon 24-Jun-13 12:19:58

I have dd going to secondary and agree that I just can't face all the meetings and uniform purchase.
Don't want the bother and hassle.

Badvoc Mon 24-Jun-13 12:53:36

That's just how I feel.
Just can't be bothered and that makes me feel like a terrible mother.
A friend just phoned and is coming to see me tomorrow afternoon. I can forsee tears (from me) but I think I need to talk to someone about a shitty things have been.
It's meatballs and garlic bread for us tonight...then strawberries and ice cream after.
Weds is pizza night as we have ds2s induction evening @7pm and it's bath night too so all got it be done by 6.45pm.
Thurs is oven chips and fish and peas.
Summer hols are nearly here and I am starting to panic slightly...what am I going to do with them for 6 weeks feeli like this!?
Dh has agreed - for the first time in our marriage - to have 2 weeks hols.
Then he said last night "if the weather is bad there is no point me having the other week...I will have it later..."
He hasn't really grasped the point, has he?

curryeater Mon 24-Jun-13 13:05:21

Oh god Badvoc, is he for real? If the weather is bad "there is no point"? Yes, because when the weather is bad children just go and sleep in the airing cupboard.

I too can't be arsed about the whole school business. Part of me still hopes dd1 might get a place at the school we wanted, if our change of address makes a difference. I phoned the school secretary to find out where we are on the list, and at our old address, which their records still show, we are 9th. I had to stop myself from saying breezily "oh, so we only have to kill 8 children then - not too bad". I don't think this would reflect well on us as a family.

School guilt is ridiculous. I met a parent over the weekend whose daughter goes to the school dd1 does have a place at, and she loves it. The grounds are beautiful, huge, with mature deciduous trees, a million miles nicer than anything I have ever seen in London. They have a vegetable patch and a flower garden they have planted, and lovely outdoor play equipment. Yet I am hankering after the other school, with the same ofsted rating, and not nearly such nice facilities outside, because people keep looking pityingly at me when I tell them dd1 didn't get in. Is that why? Or for some better reason? Or for the extremely stupid reason that dd1 says she hates the school uniform colour of her school, and wants to wear the colour of the school she did not get a place at (not even because she wants to go there, or knows about any of this at all, but because it is coincidentally the same colour as the childminder's daughter's school uniform, at a different school). I have to sort out my feelings about this in case we do get offered a place and, good heavens, I have to choose! What a privileged position to be in.

Haven't got childcare for September. Can't find any-ARGH

Moving on Friday - in denial - ARGH

Still - feeling fine. dp did a ton of childcare over the weekend. We're working together, or he is doing more than me. Really appreciating it. Really feeling like we are a team.

sorry to gloat

have a good week, all. Thanks for the new thread, Rollo

OddBodd Mon 24-Jun-13 13:59:44

Wow thanks for the new thread KingRollo will be back on here ranting later!

Moominsarehippos Mon 24-Jun-13 14:02:02

Sleep deprivation. That's enough isn't it?

Badvoc Mon 24-Jun-13 15:27:14

Blimey curry...good luck with the move!

Badvoc Mon 24-Jun-13 15:30:21

...and I will use your airing cupboard analogy later!

OddBodd Mon 24-Jun-13 16:15:04

Grr the 'there's no point' in taking the 2 weeks off if the weather is bad comment has made me angry ! It sounds like something my DH would say. This isn't a dig at men in general but sometimes I do feel like DH really doesn't 'get it' He doesn't 'get' how terrified I am at the thought of another 6 week summer holiday like last years. It was hideous. DS1 was bored. DS2 was still in his crying phase (nothing's really changed there, except for now he's mobile and into everything, including all DS1's toys), I was so frought yet bored the whole time and DH only tool 4 days off the whole time. I was self harming due to frustration and actually ended up with a counsellor and on antidepressants during those 6 weeks. I just don't think I can face it again.

Anyway, I will read through this latest thread properly later and hopefully get chance to write more (perhaps it'll be less me me me <<guilty>> ) Hang in there lovely people.

curryeater Mon 24-Jun-13 16:34:08

OddBodd, each time I had a baby I found dp didn't "get it" and then each time, once the baby was older, we managed my return to work by dp doing some full time childcare (2 days a week with dd1 and 5 days a week, that is full-full time, with dd2). Each time it radically changed everything.
ok if I wanted to I could be bitter that each time I handed him a big, confident, communicative, sleep trained, food-eating baby that he never had to breastfeed, so the long dark 4am of the newborn lifestyle passed him by. But bloody hell it makes a difference having someone on board who has been that person pushing the goddamn swing in the rain with no one to hand over to till gone 7 pm.

I wish everyone could do that, by law.

Sorry to hear about the panic. Really sorry to hear that.

Please don't discount whatever you do to get by as "not proper parenting". I think we have a habit of thinking whatever is working doesn't "count" because it's petit filous or tv or keeping them in separate rooms or something and you are thinking it's somehow "cheating". It is not, it is goddamn coping.

Good luck

Thanks for the good luck Badvoc!

Badvoc Mon 24-Jun-13 16:50:29

Well ds2 has spent at least an hour on his iPad this afternoon...sad I did try to get him outside but he wasnt interested and frankly, I haven't the energy to argue.
Dh has just taken them swimming for a while so I have just done the dinner prep.
He also watched a bit of a dinsosaur DVD whilst drawing and colouring.
Odd...I'm so sorry. But I totally get the feeling of terror about summer hols..especially if its going to be rubbish weather sad
I can take them swimming (til end August when wr cancel our gym membership) and they both have bikes but I can't ride and watch ds2 at the same time. We have a trampoline and a badminton set...hopefully will be able to use those.
I will be begging my dad to take us out for a couple of day trips!

Feelingood Mon 24-Jun-13 16:54:22

Oh look, i'll say it they feckless SELFISH hairy arses sometimes aren't they!

Its the old I' still tumbling in the porch lade with swimming bags etc and DH will already have been to loo put lounge pants on with a cuppa and iPad open.....i don't know how he does it.....

Feelingood Mon 24-Jun-13 17:24:05

Ok just off the top of my head these are my ideas for summer hold, they may help someone:

Swimming (free as in with gym IYSWIM) some councils have free swim passes available.

Parks are your best friend - I do drive to a range of large different parks all with different features and I take a picnic each time: Im in west midlands btw: Sutton, Cannon Hill, Sandwell Country Valley, Badgeridge, Chasewater all have different features sandpit/railway/ farm.

Library - there are three different ones all with different craft stuff one etc and reading challenge

Museums - always craft stuff on for a pound, we take sandwiches to always.

Check out your local fee paying stuff sometimes you can pick up a annual pass thats not too bad to fall back on - this year I'm investing in a Sealife centre for £40 as you get one free entry into alton towers too. Tesco vouchers for bigger attractions

I rarely gotO soft play - I think its hell on earth.

Look out for family viewing on Sunday am at cinema sometimes you can get tickets for £1.50 ish

Indoor picnics
Junk Modelling
chalks on path outside

Sometimes it s easier to have a little friend round too so they busy (out of my face tbh)

I feel very tired and have given in to so much re standards - DD has sleep suit on and has oly been out for school run, we've had donuts from shop as I was too tired to argue but lasagne in the oven. I have done kitchen a bit.

my uni work....<sigh>

Badvoc Mon 24-Jun-13 17:34:38

I agree wrt soft play feelinggood....my ds2 has never been to one and he is 5 this year! smile
We don't do tesco vouchers.
Dh has told ds1 we can have a weekend in London in August.
First week of summer hols we are off to Northumberland - I am praying for decent weather!

Feelingood Mon 24-Jun-13 18:05:06

oh really badvoc I'm from up there and we going on holiday there end of August to a holiday park, its our cheap to break the 6 weeks up.

What are you planning to do in London? - have you been to natural history museum to see dinosaurs, would your DS like that?

Worth walking along afterwards and having fresh frozen yoghurt top floor of harods lush with fresh fruit...

Badvoc Mon 24-Jun-13 18:33:48

We are staying on a farm and there is a beach you can walk to smile
Want to go to Alnwick, lindisfarne etc...always wanted to go.
Not sure about London...need to speak to dh about it...
We are off to chessington on Sunday!

MacMac123 Mon 24-Jun-13 18:47:45

Hello! Phew thought I'd lost you all for a sec!

Ledkr Mon 24-Jun-13 19:28:58

I go to cannon hill once or twice a year we could have a little meet up.
I agree that if fathers did some full on childcare they'd be more understanding.
My dh is a total gem because he gets how it is from his two days per week childcare. It really does help your relationship.
He just told me he was off to play footy. I'd only just got in from work and meant I had two to get to bed alone.
I rolled eyes, he got why and will hurry back and takeover which by then will be clearing up and packed lunches.

sensesworkingovertime Mon 24-Jun-13 19:56:26

Summer holiday (I mean the 6 weeks off school) dread? I am in there with the rest of you....I want....need a group hug. If the weather is crap (again) I don't think my remaining dark hairs will survive come the beginning of Sept. I have been known to weep, shout and hurl things after 3 solid weeks of rain (2010??)

KingRollo Mon 24-Jun-13 19:56:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KingRollo Mon 24-Jun-13 19:57:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OddBodd Mon 24-Jun-13 20:04:02

Thanks for the ideas for summer. The thing is, I know if it were just me and DS1 then all of those suggestions would be a success. They'd be doable at least but with DS2 who kicks off whenever the pushchair stops moving, can't walk yet so wants to crawl everywhere, whinges constantly, it just makes even a trip to the park round the corner stressful.

Swimming is fine with DS1, he's 5 and loves it, can get himself changed etc but with the 2 of them I just feel overwhelmed and DS2 whinges and needs full attention but I also need to keep DS1 safe as he has only just learned how to swim. I feel like my arms are too tied up with DS2 to deal with DS1 on my own so we can only really go when DH is off work.

Museums are great for DS1 but DS2 gets fidgety in the puschair and bored.

Everything really is just so hard with him at this age. It doesn't help that he's not walking. He's having physiotherapy for hypermobility, although it's not particulalry severe, it's certainly frustrating him.

Ledkr your DH sounds great. It must be amazing when they 'get it' ! DH is wonderful with the boys. He took DS1 out in the garden this evening to play with his kid golf set thing and he really is hands on. He just doesn't get how him being 'just 30 minutes' late from work is soul destroying to me when I've had all day with them both. I don't drive and we can't afford to run another car anyway so I am very tied to the house. He just doesn't ever have those restrictions that I have every single day. If I rolled my eyes when he said he was going out, he'd honestly just think I was being a bitch. I try telling him how I feel but it always ends up with him in a strop because his work is stressful too, or with him trying to be sympathetic, saying something like 'you felt this way with DS1 remember, look how amazing he is and how happy we were before DS2, we'll get there again when DS2 is older.' YES I UNDERSTAND THIS!! I know that the whinging baby/ toddler phase doesn't last forever but that doesn't help me get through today does it?? Or the 6 weeks solid with nothing to do. I know it won't last forever but the days feel like weeks in my head...and this is what he doesn't and never will understand.

sensesworkingovertime Mon 24-Jun-13 20:36:13

thanks Rollo, for you flowers

NutsinMay Mon 24-Jun-13 20:49:38

Hi all- Just marking place at the moment as only just sat down and need to eat and too tired to do much else.

Thanks for starting Part Two- Back soon.

Ledkr Mon 24-Jun-13 21:20:39

odd you sound like me with your ds2
Dd2 was number 5 but more work than the other four put together.
She's been easier since she started to sleep and thus not as moody in the day.
Some of them are just harder I think.
She never plays alone and spend a lot of her time whingeing which I find soul destroying.
I've never felt as bad as I've done having her.
Now she's older and we are both not as tired I do feel I understand her more.
She's fiercely independent and very determined.
I'm starting to like those qualities in her now I'm not so sleep deprived.
I'm hoping she rewards me by being an easy child from now on.

Meglet Mon 24-Jun-13 21:40:53

I think today has been a very bad day. Yet a-bloody-gain 4yo DD didn't really sleep so I was disturbed in the night, she was hard work while DS was at school today and I've been menopausal and fragile. My OU essay is at 600 words but I need to get it to 1000 by the end of the month. I've been fighting a virus for over 2 weeks and it's work tomorrow.

My heart is set on everything becoming easier when DD starts school in Sept, if it doesn't help her behaviour or sleep I don't know what I'll do.

MavisG Mon 24-Jun-13 21:59:30

Rollo thread's moved on, but frozen mash is your friend.

DogsAreEasierThanChildren Mon 24-Jun-13 23:03:57

Marking place.

I think I would actually kill DH if he said 'there was no point' in him being off for part of the summer, even though I work FT so don't have it nearly as hard as some of you. OddBodd, do you ever leave your DH to cope alone with both boys all day?

How do you find little friends for them? Serious question: all our friends with kids live miles away, and DS isn't quite 3 so not really finding his own friends yet.

superstarheartbreaker Mon 24-Jun-13 23:18:24

Can I join please as have been struggling with anxiety, panic attacks and mood swings for ages now.
I am a lone parent and my mum died of cancer when dd was 2. I have been in denial but the cracks are starting to show.
I am prepared to get into debt to keep my dd entertained over the summer holidays!
On a more serious note there are plenty of cheap things to do. I always find that life is so much easier when I meet up with my mum friends, the kids can play and we can chat and moan! Our local pub has a beer garden with play equipment which I love as we get to have a drink and the kids let off steam.

Ledkr Tue 25-Jun-13 07:04:40

dogs I go to a couple of local toddler groups and have met two lovely women with girls the same age.
I do t ask them here tho as I don't want 3 2yr olds trashing my house. <misery emoticon> grin
Dd1 is still great pals with a girl from toddlers and they are 11.
Well positivity over for now. Dd2 woke at friggin 5am.
I must admit to sliding under the covers and letting dh take over. I mumbled that I'd be moving out if she starts this crap again.
Most depressing part is that she was on the go all day yesterday, ate really well and had a nap so no real explanation for early wake up. <sobs>
I have a big meeting at work and have no concept of getting through it tbh.

Badvoc Tue 25-Jun-13 07:22:07

Oh meg sad
It's soul destroying isnt it?
Ds2 still goes to sleep with me and then dh moves him to his own bed but he never stays asleep all night unless he is exhausted and then he is probe to night terrors...
I haven't had an unbroken nights sleep in a decade and frankly it is starting to show sad
I am also hoping school tires him out!
It means I am in bed by 8 each night and dh and I spend no time together at all.
We need to do somehting about it but I am so tired I don't know where to start.
The annoying thing is he can do it...last week we had one night where he just took himself off to bed and went to sleep!
How do we get him to do it again?
Have tried bribery...didn't work.
I am glad so many of you find Dhs words about the hols as crappy as I do sad
I will be having words (at some point)

KingRollo Tue 25-Jun-13 07:32:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DogsAreEasierThanChildren Tue 25-Jun-13 07:35:46

Thanks, ledkr. I work FT and all groups seem to be in the week, and DH is bad at getting out and socialising with people he doesn't know (and, to be fair, this is one area where it's genuinely harder for men because most parents around in the week are women). Where we used to live there was a group on Saturday mornings but - wait for it - it was dads only. Here there doesn't seem to be anything at all.

DogsAreEasierThanChildren Tue 25-Jun-13 07:36:51

Badvoc, we've got one that bribery doesn't work on. I don't know if he's really, really stupid or just very stubborn, but either way it's a bit of a nightmare.

I thought i had lost you all there!! This thread is a world of support i cannot lose at the moment smile

While i'm here is anyone else facing the "throwing a ball to toddler but trying to teach him not to throw things" juxtaposition?

Amongst other things, there is alot of contradictions in looking after babies and tots.

curryeater Tue 25-Jun-13 09:33:19

OddBod, I know it doesn't help but your ds2 sounds like the sort of child who will be so much happier when he is walking.

Hi Superstar, sorry to hear about your mum. nice to see you here.

Big sympathies to all of you with broken sleep. Killer.

two thoughts from things I have been reading:

- in "What Mothers Do" she notes that some mothers who open up about how shit everything is, maybe cry, to a group of other understanding mothers are treated with a "holding basket" of silence, or meaningless words like "that must be hard". Not a barrage of "helpful" suggestions. And she notes how healing the silence seems to be. I have been guilty on these threads of offering to discuss things like broken sleep even though I know that is not really the point, if anyone wanted practical advice you would ask your HV or your friends or start a thread in Sleep on here, maybe you are doing all that already. So I just wanted to note that I know that is not the point but this is the internet so it is hard to do what I really want to do, which is just listen and pass a tissue. I will try to work out a form of words which conveys this. I think just being heard really helps, for me, anyway.

- "maternal ambivalence" - I read a piece about this on Aeon magazine. It implies that mothers do hate their babies, as well as love them, and you should express this, if only to your therapist (ha), because in doing so you separate your hate from your love for your child and you make sure that it is the love that determines what you actually do. So I just wanted to bring that thought here because it is clear that you are all so reflective and conscious and aware and even as you struggle, you have already done that hard job of knowing that the bad feelings are not to be inflicted on the child. this is not a given, I discover.

Who was it who knows the "Princess" family with the little baby "princess"? They sound like people who will have a hard time articulating their feelings authentically and it won't be good for the baby.

In summary - we are all ace become we come here and moan. In so doing, we are proving we are excellent mothers!

flowers for all. Have a good day

Feelingood Tue 25-Jun-13 12:14:16

sorry two of my posts yesterday consisted of meal suggestions and summer holiday ideas - I thought it may help someone. I was trying to be constructive.

<passes tissues>

curryeater Tue 25-Jun-13 12:16:11

Feeling I wasn't criticising! It was very constructive. I was practically making notes.

Badvoc Tue 25-Jun-13 12:24:57

Me too! I wish I lived near the sea sad
My friend is coming round today - she knows I have been ill but but not all of it.
I am worried I will cry.
I dont like crying.

OddBodd Tue 25-Jun-13 12:29:01

Hi all. I can recommend 'What Mother's Do' too. It mainly is about the baby bit but it's all relevant to parenting in general. It made me realise quite how busy I am even though I can't see what the hell I've done all day, that doesn't mean it's not useful things we're doing.

Welcome superstar . Sorry to hear about your mum. My mum died when I was 10 and I still think it impacts on my mental health now to be honest. It's such a traumatic thing at any age. Also we actually have sometimes got into debt (thankfully not a scary amount) in order to entertain the boys. Sometimes, I just need to get the hell out and feel human.

Anyway, thanks everyone. curry I think/ hope you are right about DS2 cheering up when he can walk. My DS1 was exactly the same actually. He was probably an even harder work baby than DS2 but it didn't matter quite as much as I wasn't spreading myself quite so thinly and like I've said before, I didn't have to keep a brave, smiley, happy mummy act up like I do now for DS1's sake.

Oh and it was me who knows the 'baby princess' <boak> . Apparently my boys are destined to be naughty and physical because they don't have a girl in the house...wtf? Why does everyone assume boys= bad? Or is that just my friends who make that assumption? I hate it. I know I moan a fair bit about DS2 but that's because he's a baby not because he's a boy! DS1 is neither 'naughty' nor over 'physical'. He's just a happy, sometimes silly, often sensible, funny, sensitive, reasonable child! Grrrrrrrrr. I don't think that it helps that 2 lots of my friends have had 3 boys and were desperate for a girl and both got them on their 4th attempt and the rest of my friends either have 2 girls or one of each. All of them seem to take pity on me because we 'only' have boys hmm . I know I've said this before but it really does wind me up. I have odd friends I think.

In other news, I'm in a foul mood (as you can probably tell), my period is about a week late and I started weight watchers yesterday so am missing my junk food. But I must do something about my weight. I have no doubt that carrying an extra 3 stone of fat around on my arse all day is possibly making me feel even more tired and pissed off at the world. Woe is me! haha.

OddBodd Tue 25-Jun-13 12:30:04

Stay strong Badvoc sometimes crying does help though. I seem to be always crying on someone blush .

Feelingood Tue 25-Jun-13 14:14:50

curryeater - I realise that! I just thought I'd maybe missed the err...sentiments of thread.

oddbodd that is so very true about not being able to see what you have done.

badvoc crying releases toxins that allow a sense of relief - tis designed this way- well I read that somewhere. But if your friend is a real friend they will listen and maybe try to help with perspective or practical stuff.

Anyway I thinks I shall get this here book, sounds like it has some worthwhile insights.

Molly well trouble is they bring it back don't they.....

Welcome superstar sorry about your mum. My DH lost both his parents when 11 and 16. He never really talks about this or them. I have asked him and he says he just got on with life he doesn't tend to think about thing or stuff too much.?? But then I was estranged from my father for along time and never gave it much thought I too just got on until I had DS and now DD we are back in touch.

I think becoming a parent makes you think about your own upbringing and parents lots and can be quite emotional, So if that includes a loss it must be harder to sort thought all those feelings.

Anyway I can very clearly relate to the ambivalence thing. I just said to my DH re DS how can anyone you love so much irritate and frustrate me so much..then the guilt sets in.

Yesterday I got the kids fed ready for bed. DS was allowed to watch TV for a bit but he kept making noise so I sent him to his room to play quietly he has all sorts - too much in there inc his skylanders and DVD's. He understands that 'mummy' needs to have her time to do her 'homework' after doing jobs. Well he wouldn't be quiet (DD asleep by now) and then cried and cried as he got wrong then but he time he should be asleep he thought it was being given as a punishment....the heart wrenching sobs..... DH handled it in the end.....better than me i add.

Heres the thing I find all of that so utterly pathetic and emotionally draining, obstructive selfish and just well I want him to be quiet so I can have some PEACE and ply trashy app games as my brain is mushed.

Even if I shove him on my pad (shoddy I know) he give me a commentary. Meanwhile DD is tottering about cute n NOT talking. I'm dreading her talking too.....

Affirmations for me
Washed, dress and breakfasted
School run - hate it
Laundry x 2 (1 even hung outside on line)
I report submitted to OU bang on deadline time - not quite finished
Kitchen benches cleared
Bins out/in
School run
Heat Lasagane from yesterday
Soaps and wine

Emsmaman Tue 25-Jun-13 14:16:40

Oddbod I remember how hard it was to keep DD entertained before walking, as she crawled for 6 whole months and wanted to get into everything. I didn't have an older child to entertain as well so we were at Gymboree every day as I couldn't think of another place where I could let her just roam free safely!

I'm sorry I don't have any suggestions, all I can think is that maybe a decent softplay place with separate baby and kids bits might be a way to while away an hour or two. I appreciate that most are manky and awful but I have found a couple of good ones.

Emsmaman Tue 25-Jun-13 14:20:17

badvoc Seen that you're going to Chessington. Nearish to there is Hobbledown in Epsom which is fantastic but not cheap for a one off visit (reasonable annual passes though). You can very easily spend most of the day there, take a picnic, drinks & plenty of snacks. And Ipads for the grown ups in the indoor part.

I love this thread. Thanks KingRollo for starting the new one. Have to work now (thank god I'm at work!!!!!) but will catch up later. Hugs to all of you.

myfurbyiseday Tue 25-Jun-13 14:38:35

Hello everyone, I posted earlier on in the thread and relieved to see its still going strong. So much support and empathy on here. I posted last year about how my dH had gone away for a week on holiday and left me struggling with the dc despite me asking him not to go. All I got back from posters was how I should pull myself together, get on with it, grow up and lots of other hurtful comments. A complete contrast to all the empathy on this thread.

Well today has been another mind numbling boring day. We did meet up with a friend but that passed all of an hour and we have been on the go since 6am so another long day. DH wont be home til gone 8. Sometimes I wonder how I will make it that long. I am permanently on countdown.

As its a nice day I thought we'd go out into the garden. I set up sand and water play, got lots of toys out. DD lasted all of 5 mins then demanding different toys. Got more toys. She then wants to go to the toilet, so back inside. She doesnt make it in time so have to shower her and changer her. Back into the garden. DD asks for a drink. Back into the house I go. DD has a tantrum as she wanted orange rather than blackcurrant juice. Too tired to stand my ground I get her orange juice. She then demands milk. Spend half an hour trying to sort out her tantrum. She plays for 5 mins, then says she needs the toilet, so back inside we go again. Back outside I collapse into a chair praying for 5 mins peade. DD keeps talking and whats more wants a constant response. ARRRRRRRGH I could scream. This is what makes me depressed, constantly servicing a toddler with no time to myself. I thought I could sit in the garden and at least drink a cup of tea in peace but no chance!

I give myself pep talks 'you're so lucky to have a garden, other people dont' and 'other people are stuck in an office while you're enjoying the sunshine' but it DOESNT help. I still feel I could go out of my mine with boredom...

Sorry for rant, just had to get that off my chest....

Badvoc Tue 25-Jun-13 16:51:33

Friend just left.
She is so lovely and really listens.
I felt able to open up how broken I feel.
Still couldn't cry though sad
She is coming again next week.
Ds2 is 4 and will actually colour and draw by himself for a while now. Ditto iPad (although that comes with the guilt of course)
Ds1 at the same age needed constant 1-1 and it's exhausting.
If its any consolation he is now a very confident 10 year old who doesn't need my constant input! smile
I am helping at a pre school event tomorrow (why do I do this? Why?) and then have the afternoon to myself (ie ironing)

shebird Tue 25-Jun-13 17:24:15

Great thread. I've always been a glass half full person I'm definatlley in the dark side for the last few months. Just too many years of coping, getting on with it, doing it all as we mums do. The school holidays could be the final straw. Glad to know I'm not the only one finding it tough.

Ledkr Tue 25-Jun-13 19:51:14

Does anyone find they end up having a glass or two of wine most nights?
I find I an recently not sure if I should but it dies take the edge off things.

KingRollo Tue 25-Jun-13 20:04:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sensesworkingovertime Tue 25-Jun-13 20:25:06

Myfurby your little synopsis of your day was so descriptive I could quite picture it all and (even though mine are bit older now) know totally where you are coming from:-

^I thought I could sit in the garden and at least drink a cup of tea in peace but no chance!

I give myself pep talks 'you're so lucky to have a garden, other people dont' and 'other people are stuck in an office while you're enjoying the sunshine' but it DOESNT help. I still feel I could go out of my mine with boredom... ^

I could have written that myself, you try to ease your problems by saying the old chestnut of 'it could be worse if.....so and so and so', good approach in a way but doesn't always ease the pain does it?!!

Badvoc Tue 25-Jun-13 20:57:21

I don't drink really so for me it's crappy food that's the problem....biscuits, cake etc
Am looking into magnesium and B6 ATM.
Am just desperate sad

KingRollo Tue 25-Jun-13 21:02:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badvoc Tue 25-Jun-13 21:06:14

Am going next week kingrollo...there is a particular gp who I like and who I want to see - of course everyone else feels the same about her too so she has a 2 month wait list!
I did low carb last summer and lost a stone but just can't seem to keep it up ATM which infuriates me. I feel so much worse eating sugary crap.
And yet still I do it.

FeelingHorse Tue 25-Jun-13 22:18:50

Hello everyone

Just found this thread- just in time too!

First time mum to DS 12wo. I love him to bits but recently it's been really hard. I tried to talk to DP about it tonight, but it ended up with me crying and going to bed...

I'm just so exhausted and I feel guilty all the time. Just some of the things I feel guilty about on a daily basis:
- that I find my days long and boring
- that I can't wait to go back to work
- that I can't afford to be a SAHM
- that I don't take my DS to "groups"
- that I get so frustrated at the lack of sleep

I dread the nights- I don't sleep as I am just waiting in dread for the next awakening . DP sleeps in another room as he has to work- I don't entirely agree with this and this is why we argued tonight. He doesn't even do the weekend feeds hmm

Then this makes me feel guilty as I don't have to go to work...aargh it's a constant cycle of guilt sad

Feelingood Tue 25-Jun-13 23:11:09

Welcome feeling

Yes it does get boring do its ok to feel out of your head! Seriously it's all taboo they cute for....what...afractionof day then you left with okkkkkayyy... We do love still, but yes it can be boring especially if you used to working and being challenged and being around adults even!

I couldn't wait to be track to work but IME I thought it would get me back to normal but it doesn't as you have child....ie work isn't quite the same as before as it is bookended with a good dose of guilt..eek sorry it sounds harsh but no work is good for plenty mums.. I'm a bit itchy myself...

Most people can't afford to be a SAHM n any money stuff is your business, you do what you gotta do....

At DD age when they not moving I found just going to shop/costa enough. When my DD(17mths) started to walk n just seemed ready I started to take her out more sometimes to park/swimming/library not always a group.

Lack of sleep is a killer eh? This I'm afraid is down to help with child care so you can get some sleep. Or is there something you can change about sleep patterns to help you?

Feelingood Tue 25-Jun-13 23:13:37

NO work is good for plenty of mums didn't mean this cancel cancel

That'll teach me to previews

Badvoc Wed 26-Jun-13 07:35:42

Feeling...well, I am another who finds the baby stage mind numbingly boring so you are not alone!
Wrt your dh, you need to make sure at the weekends he does sme childcare and that Includes feeds, nappy changes the works.
Then you get to go out for a couple of hours smile
Not sure about the sleep to either tbh...dh and I stayed in the same room when both of mine were babies (one very poorly high needs baby and one fairly easy baby - as easy as babies ever are!)

Meglet Wed 26-Jun-13 07:54:38

curryeater I think it's safe to say we're not scared of articulating our feelings in this family. usually loudly

myfurby it drives me mad when people pooh-pooh posters who are struggling on their own for a few days. I've been a LP for 4yrs and I'm the first person who admits it's bloody hard going.

The kids have got ready without any arguments this morning shock. I'm just going to finish my brew then get ready for work. My IBS has flared up as I ate carbs at mums house last week, so I need get back to a lower carb regime.

Feelingood Wed 26-Jun-13 08:33:45


*meglet I wanted to ask you what OU course you are studying as I am with OU too just submitted a report yesterday at middy and I nearly fell off sofa last night as my tutor had marked it immediately and returned it.

I have a post submission hangover this AM - I mean I drunk a whole bottle of wine last night and sat with headphones on listening to all sorts on ipad.

I took kids to park for 2.5 hours last night it was bliss re weather and there was only one other mum there and we chatted for the whole time she was really nice. it was a grassed park with really good equipment in so my little toddler had a great time. - straight to bed and sleep when we got back

well I've had a whiney meltdown from ds(7) as I asked hime to get showered first then breakfast (normal order) he resoned because he had been a good boy yesterday he should be allowed to have breakfast first.....the constant whinging, the constant rallying against normal routines I SICK OF HAVING TO JUSTIFY MY DECISIONS Arrrrgrgrgrggrrggrh

Biscuitsareme Wed 26-Jun-13 12:55:51

Repeating myself from another thread but: feeling, you work too! The only difference is that your OH gets paid and you don't. So IMO night duty should be shared; weekends should be shared. You're a unit and each one of you has their needs and is entitled to the same amount of sleep and leisure time.

[gets off soap box] I feel strongly about this, can you tell?

I didn't read the first thread but I'm definitely in the shade right now. Have 2 boys 3.4 & 9 months. It's really fucking hard & I feel like a failure a lot of the time. I've always had depression but it's got bad again after DS's birth.

happynappies Wed 26-Jun-13 13:38:42

Found you all - marking my place for later, will be back.

Badvoc Wed 26-Jun-13 13:41:40

Well I have been helping at a pre school event this morning.
I am knackered
Ds2s hay fever is bad today poor thing.
It's his reception induction meeting tonight @ 7pm so busy day for me.
So glad I have a gp appt next week...

Feelingood Wed 26-Jun-13 14:45:28

Afternoon <waves> glad you found this new thread happy and welcome to Mrshelsbels

Still have a terrible head from wine but I did have a good time.
Been to book week event with DD in a little costume (cute!)
Spent far too much money in M&S on food
Waiting to do school pick up
Beavers drop off/pick up

Dh is away, I've just stood in the kitchen a talked myself through what I need to do to get to bedtime then scurried around getting stuff ready.

I am like a nervous fat rat. I don't feel with it at all.

sensesworkingovertime Wed 26-Jun-13 16:19:07

Welcome in here FeelingHorse and know for sure you are not alone. It will get better, esp when you start to get more sleep again. Can I ask, why does it bother you that you say you don't go to 'groups' you mean mother and baby groups? Surely DC is still too young, 12 weeks you say? At that age they are not going to get anything out of it, it's whether you want the company and to get out of the house.

KingRollo Wed 26-Jun-13 18:15:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badvoc Wed 26-Jun-13 18:32:21

Oh kingrollo..I feel your pain sad

sensesworkingovertime Wed 26-Jun-13 19:31:13

Me too Rollo, I would have your worries. Trying to look on the bright side, some people are just useless at the baby stage because they just don't know how to communicate with them, so he may improve. Perhaps he just needs a crash course, unfortunately DC is providing that. It's always good to get the headache of childcare sorted, are you looking forward to going back to work?

KingRollo Wed 26-Jun-13 19:47:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KingRollo Wed 26-Jun-13 19:47:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Feelingood Wed 26-Jun-13 20:32:03

kingrollo - thats sounds mentally and physically exhausting - you looking after him looking after her....I think I would feel short changed somehow.

He may come into his own as she gets older...my DH was fairly competent at basics but I don't think he is a natural parent, I still have to remind him about all sorts of stuff BUT I do feel happy to leave her for full days while I go out. He may not do it like I would but it i good enough.

Maybe the nursery is a good idea to give you peace of mind and stop you worrying.

Feelingood Wed 26-Jun-13 20:34:12

my eyeballs hurt much btw

KingRollo Wed 26-Jun-13 20:39:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ledkr Wed 26-Jun-13 20:56:36

God that's hard rolo can't imagine how you don't murder him tbh
I always think well I wasn't born knowing I had to learn. However it's risky letting him "learn" with your precious dd.
I worry a bit about dh when he has dd as he is very easily distracted and goes trance like if something catches his eye.
Hardly a recipe for safety is it?

KingRollo Wed 26-Jun-13 21:00:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MacMac123 Wed 26-Jun-13 21:20:36

Rollo you poor thing. Nightmare. She prob would be better off in nursery. I don't know how you deal with it.

On a lighter note, my DH left Dd (about 6 weeks) in the car while he nipped into pre school to pick up DS, he forgot about her. When he told me, I nearly stabbed him 25 times with a kitchne knife.

It was beyond what I could understand.

Dammit I thought 6 months on I'd be finding telling that story slightly funny but typing it has just made me cross again!

Badvoc Wed 26-Jun-13 21:44:07

Rollo...I do understand, honestly.
It's fucking exhausting.
Last summer my ds2 was rushed to hospital with breathing difficulties.
Dh had said all evening I was over reacting and that he wasnt that bad then at 3am I told him that ds2 was struggling to breathe and to call an ambulance whilst I tried to comfort ds.
He looked at the phone, handed it back to me, told me he couldn't phone 999 because "he was too upset" and walked off into the other room.
It wasnt his finest hour.
He also let me down HUGELY wrt ds1 as a baby (loooong story) and its something I am sorry to say I will never be able to forgive him for sad
He loves them both very much and does try, but bottom line is I don't trust him to always act in their best interests and that is hard for me to admit.
I understand why you want dd in nursery. I would too in your place.

TheConstantLurker Wed 26-Jun-13 21:52:27

Hi, recently I have that poem about 'they fuck you up your parents do' or something, in my head but changed to 'they fuck you up your children do'
It does not get easier. my eldest is 13 and developing her teen skills like sulking, bitching, manipulating her little siblings etc. Conversely I worry like hell about her.
I often think mothers should have a study done on them. The stress levels, the cortisol levels, the millions of tiny tasks and responsibilities that add up into a massive burden.
I could so relate to the posts about the husbands and partners who carry on blithely propped up by the mothers.
I also agree, sadly with the conclusion many have come to that if I had really known what it would have been like I probably would not have had more than one child, if any.

Badvoc Wed 26-Jun-13 21:59:39

It's definitely partially my own fault.
I was the main carer when I lived at home for my parents and siblings.
Its the the same in my own marriage/home.
There is not a single person I feel I can go to for support/help.
I am 40 years old.
That is pretty sad, isn't it?

KingRollo Thu 27-Jun-13 06:11:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badvoc Thu 27-Jun-13 06:54:18

I do have a friend I can talk to, but she had her own stuff going on. She is coming back next week to have another chat.
It must be very difficult for you if no one in your family or friends like your dh rollo sad do you feel that you have made a mistake by being with him?
I do sometimes with dh (usually at my time of the month!)

Ledkr Thu 27-Jun-13 07:06:41

constant I have already endured 3 teen boys and good god it was hard.
When I remember that that was in my twenties and early thirties I have no idea of how ill cope with the dds when I'm in my late forties and fifties shock

Ledkr Thu 27-Jun-13 07:11:27

I think with blokes who are useless it's because there is such a low expectation for them.
My dh is fab but why do I even describe him as such? He dies the same things as I do, probably less but why do we as society think that's amazing? It's how it should be really.
I'd retrain my dh slowly tbh by leaving him for shorter periods and setting him tasks.
These guys can hold down jobs and would have to do lots of this stuff if they were single.
It's a cop out I tell ya!!

KingRollo Thu 27-Jun-13 07:13:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KingRollo Thu 27-Jun-13 07:18:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badvoc Thu 27-Jun-13 07:48:41


Feelingood Thu 27-Jun-13 10:09:04

Oh badvoc and kingrollo I'm sorry to your posts make for grim reading, Im sad for you both but angry that there are these fuckwit (sorry) men still acting like it is the 1950's

My DH is pretty good around house and has been understanding about the current level of pigstyness - he knows Im doing stuff with kids/studying and does his lot at weekends. I feel it has took us a while to get this point in our marriage / domestics.

My DH has really hurt me in the past with things he has done. I caught him flirting with someone on fb when I was pregnant with DD i was devastated plus pg hormones I was ready to kill him as it beggared belief he had done this after getting through separation/reconciliation etc.

Ive never told anyone that - I felt too ashamed. I forgave him. So now whilst I am happy with him it is a different set of happy - i can't explain. I know if I shared that on here at the time I would have been told to LTB.

I decided to write that because - like the stuff to do with mothering, this is real-life not the movies and sometimes its just crappy. You are not alone ladies - sadly.

Feelingood Thu 27-Jun-13 10:16:06

ledkr - I was brought up in a 'broken home' (ha ha the bitterness of the label applied by others) I don't think I had a 'blueprint' of what and how a man should be domestically - my mother was and still is a hoarder clean but never ever the type of shipshape clean/showhome tidiness!

I think your point about low expectations is correct. I think my DH gets his domesticity from losing his parents quite young and living with his brother - he had to do stuff and get on with washing etc. He hasn't got an eye for cobwebs etc but he can clean a kitchen v well - BUT he has to have his music on with the door shut, you not allowed to go in whine he's doing it i.e. one tasks at a time - but he does do it.

Badvoc Thu 27-Jun-13 10:21:50

Feeling...I am sorry you went through that. How awful. Glad you feel you can share here though {hugs}
I aim to sit down with dh at some point this weekend and really chat about things...he already knows that he is to have 2 weeks off and no going back into work smile
I would really like to clear the air - the past few weeks have been grim sad

Ledkr Thu 27-Jun-13 12:36:48

Feeling- poor you. I'm glad you feel safe to tell us though.
I was moaning about my pil the other day and ended up being told dh was abusive to me hmm a lot if projecting on here.

Badvoc Thu 27-Jun-13 12:38:53

Ledkr...I learned long ago not to post about dh or my family unless its on the stately homes thread or a safe place like this.
Other people just don't get it, and why should they if they haven't experienced it.

Feelingood Thu 27-Jun-13 17:26:13

thanks badvoc and ledkr for your kind words and - your posts made me comfortable enough to share.

I know for a fact a friend of mine (not anymore) thought I was soft for being so forgiving about stuff said/done during the separation - I mean we were at war. Incidentally i have my different but happy marriage back on track with a second child whilst she could not forgive her husband (as she was also separated) and remained bitter and toxic until I had to let her go - when drunk one night she said if I got back with my DH we couldn't be friends anymore! So ok then thanks and bye to that one!

Obviously I have had to dig deep to forgive - an entirely personal choice. If you walk away you walk away from all the good stuff you once shared and what might have been, if you stay and forgive you live with the scars, and occasionally there are little reminders that crop up, sometimes painfully so but you learn to live with them.

I feel I did the right thing for me and ultimately us for my situation - We went to counselling, we read stuff on-line and put in hard work - its not easy. I guess what I'm saying is I think sometimes on here there is too much 'face saving' on blip and its LTB. But only you yourself knows how much you have left to invest/lose in a situation and can call time either way. But I do know if every day you do the same.....

Making a decision to change is one thing, but deciding how to go about it is another matter and putting into practice

Though I think there are sometimes where posters appear lost due to manipulation emotional and mental abuse, if they are posting saying 'her doesn't let me see my friends etc' then I think its easier to call IYSWIM.

Anyway I've had a normal day here, I feel ok (not this am at getting out the door time for school run i had steam coming out of ears then) Been to see a friend and DD just played a treat. Easy tea. Hope to see DH and have a conversation with him uninterrupted and before he falls asleep.

In fact I could call myself mother interrupted - sounds like a title for a book.

<waves to others>

Badvoc Thu 27-Jun-13 17:50:46

I always think that the posters who say LTB etc genuinely have our best interests at heart.
I do believe that.
But we are the ones living our lives and dealing with these issues day in day out in the best we can.
It may change, of course. That's life!
But, for now, I think we are all doing a bloody good job in very difficult circumstances.
Hugs to all x

KingRollo Thu 27-Jun-13 18:21:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badvoc Thu 27-Jun-13 18:24:54

No you are not over reacting rollo.
It's just another example of their utter disregard for our welfare/care.
Can you order from a take away place?

Badvoc Thu 27-Jun-13 18:26:27

I am feeling like crap every day today and asked dh to stack the dishwasher about 10 mins ago (for the second time)
He is now outside "watching the rain"
I swear one day I will do him some sort of harm angry

KingRollo Thu 27-Jun-13 18:33:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KingRollo Thu 27-Jun-13 18:38:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ledkr Thu 27-Jun-13 18:41:51

I was once with a true abuser and trust me it was a bit worse than him not standing up to his bossy mother!
On my thread this woman was literally analysing him as abusive on the strength he doesn't fall out with his mum.
I'd be more concerned I'd he did tbh. He's wonderful to me as I think he's learnt respect from her in a strange way.
A lot of the posters haven t. Drugging clue to be honest sitting there waiting to pounce.
I have also been accused of wearing make up for men not myself!
Ok day here went to open air pool but it mega rained so we came home just cooking pizza and going to have a bubble bath with dds. Much more chilled without dh I must say.

KingRollo Thu 27-Jun-13 18:46:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badvoc Thu 27-Jun-13 19:00:11

You have hit the nail on the head.
What are you/we willing to put up with?
Because NO relationship is perfect and infallible.
Some people seem to think theirs is, but human nature being what it is that is simply not true.
You have to decide what's perfect for you and what is a deal breaker for you.
It will be very different for different people I think.

KingRollo Thu 27-Jun-13 19:34:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheConstantLurker Thu 27-Jun-13 19:50:47

Hello and thanks for the welcome. Have quickly run through the thread again and thoughts are- god yes to the idea that some posters just have an agenda of their own all ofvthe time and cannot understand a situation outside of that (recent experience on the relationships board-bitter) and oh yes to the DPs who cannot, cannot see how enormously your life has changed and change with you. For years my DP would ask me the most basic stuff- where do we keep the clean vests, how much powder do you put in the machine, which towel for DD yadda, yadda, yadda. And I hated it when he went out after work. He could do that. I never went out. Me going out meant making an arrangement with him. Him going out just happened because I simply carried on doing what I was doing- everything.

Ledkr Thu 27-Jun-13 19:56:59

I think you might with a nice pudding yes.
I'm on the wine again! It's becoming a bit of a habit but it just helps me wind down
Dd was horrendous this am as she had a late night and still an early start. She literally moans for England and I just can't be doing with it. I tried to be proactive rather than just get frustrated but she was horrible then when dd1 got up it seemed to get worse and dd2 was hitting her then she tipped her toast all over the floor! I had to call dh who was having a lie in due to a late shift. I felt such a failure but she's sooooo difficult.
Any suggestions for moaniness. I can't go out untill I've got dd1 off to school, it's a long couple of hours.

Feelingood Thu 27-Jun-13 20:02:19

Yes badvoc you've put it better than me up thread!

yes the irony shades of grey - theres no 'chuffing' shades of grey in this house except the undone washing pile!

Enjoy your pudding kingrollo. You said you argue the same, follow a pattern of not speaking - do you want to change this? Sorry if I have missed a post or mis-interpreted are you thinking about what you want moving forward or have you made a decision in your own mind? Hope its ok to ask. Its great you've got something you are looking forward to doing.

TheConstantLurker Thu 27-Jun-13 20:03:07

And! Things for me crystalised when one day when he phoned to say he would be home late and I realized it was fine because it made absolutely no difference to me because I did it all anyway. I used to be frantic and that phone call would have me on the verge of a nervous breakdown (another bad experience being told not to be so silly on a thread) but the numb acceptance and then even actual relief sometimes spelt the death of something in my relationship.
As for boredom and childcare, I confess now that I do not read bedtime stories anymore (extreme guilt), gave up playing games when my first child was 3, hate going to the park, homework, cooking with children (torture, flipping torture!), cooking meals full stop and sometimes actually feel like I never listen to much my children say because most of it is very boring.

Feelingood Thu 27-Jun-13 20:06:20

evening constant yes its like they v v slow in uptake.

Daringly - i dont understand a lot of the feminism stuff but I'm learning and notice stuff re images in media etc. But the main question is how far it has actually got women, maybe choices changed for women but the men folk didn't alter their view/expectations.

I don't know...yadda yadda

Feelingood Thu 27-Jun-13 20:14:14

constant i don't read bedtime stories either - we read as and when normally when i have time and in mood. My kids see me reading a lot of books I'm a passive role model!

The evening meal thing is a crisis in my head from about 2pm why oh why, I'm sure if I was working these things would seem less of a big deal? it the goldfish bowl syndrome and each day is like the film groundhog day re cleaning, feeding, tidying. sometimes I have groundhog hours

Anyway this mothering job is just like other jobs isn't it, good and bad bits, but you know you can't really resign.

planning school holidays - i think I'm gearing to just throw money at the situation - yes thats what I shall do with a mix of stuff to do together and stuff for hime to do with other people - DD has been easy this week by comparison.

TheConstantLurker Thu 27-Jun-13 20:23:42

That's a better way to look at it feeling I am a good role model there too. I rarely read the daily school reading books either. Luckily the youngest are both well set to reading fluently.
I have had to force my children's father to become more active. In fact it has gone a bit too far the other way and I sometimes do very little. He thinks I'm a lazy arse. However when I am working at the weekends I still get asked what Is for dinner. 'I don't know, you will have to get something' what shall we have? 'I don't know, think of something, I have been thinking of meals every day for years, I won't be here, I will be at work, I don't f***ing care!'

Feelingood Thu 27-Jun-13 20:54:05

constant there are answers to be commended <claps> anything else just teaches them learned domestic helplessness!

KingRollo Thu 27-Jun-13 21:12:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NutsinMay Thu 27-Jun-13 21:42:53

Well hello all! Too much to comment on but I'm following everything.

I've actually had a really good week. I've done bedtime alone every night this week (DH working late) and it's gone so much better than normal. I was doing bedtime on my own anyway as both children want me to put them to bed. However, I did use to rely on DH to help with PJs, teeth, entertain one whilst I dealt with the other etc.

However, recently it had all got very stressful. You know when you are get them calm and dressed for bed and are about to go up the stairs and your DH walks in and they start getting excited again and then they start wanting to play and make all sort ofexcuses for not going to bed- well this is often the start of a terrible bedtime. They are usually tired/overtired close to meltdown and I'm in a desperate hurry to get them to bed so I can sit down and have a cup of tea whilst DH who hasn't seen them is understandably in less of a hurry. This then causes huge tension as bedtime starts unravelling (and DC start running about) and I end up pleading with DH to help me get them up the stairs, whilst he wanders off to do a non essential job or locks himself in the bathroom just as I'm hoping to get DC in to wee/do teeth.

Well anyway, this week has been amazingly calm. I used to struggle doing bedtimex2 on my own but as they've got older it's actually easier if I run it military style my way with no outside interference.

Feelingood Thu 27-Jun-13 22:15:52

ledkr I put on one of the many episode closely guarded on the sky+ that she loves. I plonk her in front of tv and she goes in a trance because the bloody little cute thing can be a right huffle puff! If I think she is tired I strap her in to buggy in front of tv and she often goes to sleep like this, never ever on sofa or from being cuddled.

nuts we were BRUTAL tonight about bedtime as DS was still up at 11pm last night shuffling about stuff in his room - well it took half hour but we got their.

kingrollo ok I just wanted to check i did not want to say anything misplaced. We will help you roll. Do you have friends you meet up with (sorry if I have missed this on other thread) our groundhog day sounds quite confined to house....Does it sound sad if I say I have learned not to rely on DH during the week as he is so tired and late from work. occasionally we have a night where he is in for 630 and enjoy a bit of food together.

I feel my DS has drained me and Ive done a lot of running around for him to activities etc getting all the various clothes/uniforms ready for very little in return except mardiness. Ive just spent £15 on theme day costume on top of all the stuff he needed for Beaver camp....that boy.

Angloamerican Fri 28-Jun-13 02:20:03

ledkr Yes - and usually it's two decent sized glasses. And it is to "take the edge off", definitely. A few months ago I stopped drinking for 6 weeks, more to see if I could. It was a little easier than I'd expected. I should probably do it again.

Ledkr Fri 28-Jun-13 09:58:41

I'm going for a dry week next week as I'm not sure it helps my moods in the morning.
Terrible morning here. I ended up sobbing to dh that I can't believe who I've become and that I can't keep going any longer. I told him I was leaving then all to it but obviously won't.
I just can't believe 3 yrs ago I was a confident happy energetic woman. What a bloody contrast.

KingRollo Fri 28-Jun-13 10:59:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badvoc Fri 28-Jun-13 11:35:35

Hugs ledkr x

Ledkr Fri 28-Jun-13 11:50:53

No plans really! Only good thing is its Friday so no school prep!
I'm still at hospital it's taking ages and taken up my three hours of dds nursery time.
Might take them swimming if the rain stops as it makes dd sleep better.

TheConstantLurker Fri 28-Jun-13 12:12:17

Hope your day improves Ledkr.
I wondered if anyone else finds that the constant grinding down makes you blank. I feel 'dead eyed' like a shark, you know. I used to and in fact still do sometimes, get mad or get upset but more often now it's a blankness.
Anyway PMS time here so not in the best of humours.

KingRollo Fri 28-Jun-13 12:38:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OddBodd Fri 28-Jun-13 12:44:41

Hi all, haven't had chance to read all the latest posts yet but I hope you are all hanging in there OK.

I do relate to the 'dead eyed' blankness. I often feel this. I think a lot of it is exhaustion.

I think that behind the blankness, all I feel is sadness so maye it's a defense mechanism just to get through the day.

Sorry for all the crap DH's and crap times a lot of you are experiencing. My DH is so wrapped up in work throughout the week that I feel like a single parent from Monday to Friday. I always look forward to the weekends but DH has kindly volunteered to work this Sunday so that's another day of me and the boys stuck in the house. Great, especially when it's pissing it down like it's meant to be doing. He just DOES NOT think. He doesn't even get paid for over time as he's salaried. Why the hell does he think it's a good idea?! Apparently it'll make things easier for him next week if he gets the work sorted on Sunday... Am I being selfish to not care whether it makes things easier for him?? I know I am being unreasonable but while the boys are so young and needy and I am so struggling with DS2, I want him here!!! He fucking knows this too.

As I type DS2 is moaning once again, whinging over fuck knows what. Better go. I'll try and read and catch up with everything on here tonight.

Badvoc Fri 28-Jun-13 13:07:26

Even my hairdresser commented on how tired I look this morning.
I must look dire sad
I have been shopping today and sorted out the gifts for the pre school teachers and ds1s teachers and cards.
Been sorting out grocery deliveries up to our holiday.
Must crack on with the ironing....

KingRollo Fri 28-Jun-13 13:45:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badvoc Fri 28-Jun-13 13:58:58

Oh dear rollo sad

KingRollo Fri 28-Jun-13 14:01:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OddBodd Fri 28-Jun-13 14:07:00

Ohh FFS Rollo, I am seething for you. Why does all the responsible parenting ALWAYS come down to us. I feel like I have to not only think for the children and keep them safe, I also have to think for DH, remind him of everything and make sure HE'S keeping them safe too. It stresses me the fuck out. I have no suggestions but I do feel for you. Wankers.

KingRollo Fri 28-Jun-13 14:09:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KingRollo Fri 28-Jun-13 14:10:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badvoc Fri 28-Jun-13 14:13:31

I get "I didn't do it on purpose"
It actually makes me want to kill him angry
It really is unattractive isn't it? And it makes me lose respect for him.
But he doesn't get that.

Ledkr Fri 28-Jun-13 14:18:55

Gish that does sound extreme!
My dh dies this kind if thing (despite being very good) I often wonder if he's a bit asd!
I can't leave him without instructions or we just won't eat! But he gets really cross if I start giving them to him.
"No wonder you get stressed cos you never leave anything to me"
I'm booked for surgery.
Is it wrong that I was mentally totting up my recuperation time? Extra nursery hours for sure.
odd can you take some time out on Saturday?
I enjoyed my trip to asda yesterday which is sad really.
A new hell beckons for me.
Dd2 seems unwell. I think it's her ear. She's sleeping now but I'm anticipating much traipsing around to emergency drs later and dh is at work.

TheCountessOlenska Fri 28-Jun-13 14:20:02

Still reading and lurking - love reading all your posts, wish I could contibute more...
KingRollo your situation sounds so similar to mine when I had Dd (three years ago now) - DH managing pub, long hours, me and baby living on site, miles from home, moved down there when Dd was 4 months, Dh stressed at work and useless with baby - nearly broke us.... lots of sympathy from me, it was a VERY hard start to motherhood x

TheConstantLurker Fri 28-Jun-13 15:08:59

That's it, the loss of respect. Sadly I could entirely visualize that scenario Rollo because I had similar with mine and sometimes still do.
When my youngest was about a year I did some Christmas temping. I had to write out a schedule, what to feed and how to make things. Often as not, in fact practically every night I would leave work at an hour when the dinner should be over and DCs well on their way to bed and get a frantic phone call about where is the dinner.
I cannot understand why they won't or can't or don't even seem to want to be in control.
I recently came off anti depressants after two years.

Badvoc Fri 28-Jun-13 15:18:56

I have to apportion some of the blame to myself.
We have been married 14 years and dh has never written a b day card, Xmas card or wrapped a gift since we married.
Why should he?
I do it!
This year he will have no choice.
I just can't do it all anymore.

crazybutterfly Fri 28-Jun-13 17:29:46

Hi, first post here but been lurking on both this and earlier thread.

I think that this thread is briliant, I live four hours away from friends and family having relocated for work so don't really have any friends more work colleagues and "mummy" friends and the few times I have tried to broach the subject of struggling I have either been closed down, made to feel like I am a failure or advised that everything would be better if DH stepped up to the plate. Consequently, I have overshared with my mum and sister in the past which led to some awkward situations as it really affected their view of DH. I thibk what I am trying to say is that whilst I am not pleased to hear that others are struggling I am pleased to have found it being discussed in such a frank and supportive manner.

I have nothing to add at the momement but will keep following the thread

I keep thinking about a book I read years ago, pre DCs so didn't appreciate it or understand it enough.

It was about a woman who needed space from her kids and home life. She got herself a room in the house but the kids would whisper and giggle outside the room. So she rented a room and would just go and lie on the bed in the quiet. But then that wasn't enough time and space so she overdosed. Sounds like Sylvia Plath I suppose?

Now I'm not thinking about suicide at all I promise. But I empathise so much with her quest for silence and for peace. I always thought I was an extrovert. I used to love being amongst noisy people in noisy places. But I yearn the quiet now. My tolerance for crying and whining seems to reducing the more my kids do it, not increasing. I thought I'd become more patient but I think the well is running dry!

I'm going back to work. Being a SAHM is a real struggle for me. I'm both lonely but craving being alone.

KingRollo Fri 28-Jun-13 19:45:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sensesworkingovertime Fri 28-Jun-13 20:10:56

Gander I'm both lonely but craving being alone , I know exactly what you mean. You feel lonely because you think you can't talk to anyone/nobody can understand the shit you have to put up with and you crave being alone because you have to put up with the shit in the first place!

Just last week I had someone over from a local church just come and chat to me because I thought I was going KERAYZEE. I told her I had no one to talk to, friend is full of herself and her probs, work friends too busy, DH too stress, my sis too stressy and snappy, SILs totally clueless etc etc etc and all the time I worry about the DCs and worry alone (that's a whole other story that I have posted on in mental health). Anyway she was very good, a good chat is so therapeutic, which is why we all on here!

Hugs to all, most of you sound pretty fed up (I am getting a feckless DH/DP vibe, esp from Rollo , I'm not being glib here, is he naturally thick or is it just this baby stuff ?- my DH is clever but can be totally clueless at times, doesn't get why you give them calpol when they are in pain for eg.confused

Seriously, I am almost thinking we need to branch out a 'Has your DH/DP affected your mental stability?' thread.

Oh it's tough. DH and I barely speaking. I speak, no one answers....

Feelingood Fri 28-Jun-13 20:38:46


was just about to pos saying how touched i am by sauces post. the is me to a tee, an extrovert v chatty but god I want some peace...

just welling up and my DS comes round top of stairs (in living room) just about comes it up

<pours third glass>

I had an ok day today aswell.

ledkr hope your ads ear is ok.

hello crazy - emotionally attached family folk aren't always able to be objective. stick around and post more if and when.

<cynical laughs> re dead eye look - I put make on yesterday and kept preening in review as I thought I looked positively stunning compared to the bloated ruddy cheeked hair scraped back of the preceding days.

the last childs party tomorrow - i love seeing the people and baits but god the preparation. We have just had one or two too many 'events' that have required special clothing/costumes/forms/money etc. i have event fatigue.

But i have cooked a nice meal - healthy n'all balanced like.

Feelingood Fri 28-Jun-13 20:39:17

sums it up

I'm on my first glass. Here's to a good weekend <optimistic>

Thank you for the welcome (back , I was on the first thread).

wine flowers

Feelingood Fri 28-Jun-13 20:52:03


After the kids were put to bed I brought in a vase of white roses that I got reduced and two candles and put the on the side table opposite where i sit - a little something for myself.

everyone else is asleep, DH fell asleep over half hour ago so on own. AGAIN

KingRollo Fri 28-Jun-13 21:09:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hellooo, I want/ need to join!! I have 3 dc's dd1 is 7, ds is 4 and dd2 is almost 2, I'm a sahm and I have completely lost my marbles !!!!
Need to catch up on thread but I too dreading summer hols, can't decide what to do re ds finishing nursery, when I'm brave I think I'll do it at same time as nursery to save money and then when it's bad I think he will have to keep going sad(
Will catch up later x

TheCountessOlenska Fri 28-Jun-13 21:30:39

Rollo Well, we're still together and had our second baby three months ago. I still feel quite resentful of how that first year with DD went - I basically did it on my own - but on the other hand he was under a lot of pressure at work, suffered from stress, blah blah. The job and the move didn't work out, and we moved back to our home town just before DD's first birthday. We very nearly split up at that point - but we didn't. I really don't know why not tbh!!

We got to a better place anyway. His relationship with DD has been improving all the time, one thing I did do was insist that he take DD for trips out, just the two of them, from when she was around 12 months. I also try really hard to let the little things go (as someone said up thread, Feelinggood possibly). So if DH is putting her to bed, I don't check up if he's helped do her teeth for example I do fret at 3am about what would happen to her teeth and fingernails if I died however

He's still no good with crying babies, hands DS back to me after 2 minutes. But I guess it's not a shock to me this time round, so I just get on with it.

Ledkr Fri 28-Jun-13 21:44:34

In bed already here.
Dd1 crying cis she can't sleep with me (dh on nights) I need some space to stretch out and be alone.
Dd2 seems ok and went down happily.
Got a busy weekend so no rest here.
feelingood I like the sound of your roses and candles.
I had a curry (Home made and healthy) but two glasses of white and half a bar of dark choc
Feeling very unhealthy now.

FamilyNapPlease Fri 28-Jun-13 22:35:36

I have been reading the original thread compulsively for the last few days and haven't finished it and haven't started this one yet but can I please please join?

Sometimes I feel like the only one struggling with this stuff. Other people seem to handle parenting so much more smoothly, even with several DC. We only have the one DS whois nearly 3 but I could NOT handle more DC. DP says he is mad enough to have another but my MH wouldn't stand up to it. DS sleeps better now but he didn't for a long long time. And cried much of the time. Still cries grizzles shouts squeals a lot. Hysterical tantrums that can last well over an hour. Hits us, other kids, throws and bashes toys. It's hard to tell when he's unwell as he seems out of sorts much of the time. Frightened by unexpected noises or kids trying to play with him. And yes, we've seen the GP and health visitor (multiple visits). Too early to tell, probably just temperament (and our parenting?) But we are generally laid back, calm people, aim for consistent not anal, lots of hugs and cuddles, positive reinforcement, clear boundaries, distraction, redirection, blah blah effing blah. It is wearing. Very wearing.

Overall I think hmm DS is getting happier as he gets older... God I hope so! But the last few years have been the hardest in my life. I love DS fiercely and he has enhanced our lives immeasurably but I have found the very end of my ability to cope since having him. It is getting easier, recent tantrum marathons aside, but my god. My god.

Ledkr Fri 28-Jun-13 22:55:41

He sounds like my dd. family I don't think you've git a clue until you have a "spirited" one.
I'm exhausted from it all.
She was number 5 but would have definitely been an only child if she was the first I could never go through this again.
Like you I love her dearly but wow she's full on from (early) morning till night.

FamilyNapPlease Fri 28-Jun-13 23:48:32

ledkr YES! Reading that book What Mothers Do was great, wish I'd had that when DS was a baby. I couldn't work out why I'd felt so frickin busy for so long (apart from being SAHM and working part time from home - not great combo) but that whole getting ten minutes for a shower or not being able to find time to eat or DO anything.

What Mothers Do reminded me that mothering is a constant activity, hard to quantify and communicate unless you've been there. EVEN when you've been there. I spent a lot of time comforting in those early months years. Wonder what it's like to have a self soother or easily comforted child! Probably much easier on the ole MH.

KingRollo Sat 29-Jun-13 07:40:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheCountessOlenska Sat 29-Jun-13 07:56:43

Yes another vote for What Mothers Do. Wish I could have made DH read it though hmm He still thinks I've got the easy option being at home with the kids - ok, on a sunny day in the park with friends I do enjoy it, but it's not really about that - I can't make him understand that it's WORK 24/7. For example, I am teaching the 3 year old to stay in bed till 6.30am with the aid of a Gro-clock- I had to go in to her at 3.30, 4.45, 5.45, 6.25 and re-explain the concept of the Gro-clock!!! In between gave the baby multiple breast feeds, think he is having a growth spurt. DH is away at work, doing hideous hours yes but he WILL have had a good nights sleep.

Does anyone else find it easier to actually view it as a job? If I try and take a step back during bedtime tantrums etc and see it as a tricky work task I have to get through for an hour, I find it easier! If that makes sense confused

TheCountessOlenska Sat 29-Jun-13 08:04:04

X-post with you there Rollo! Yes there's a three year gap between my two, took me at least 2 years to recover from the first one!

Your DH will probably be loads better with your DD when she's a bit older - you going back to work and letting him get on with it will do their relationship a world of good.

The falling asleep drunk thing is really awful - was he remorseful afterwards?

KingRollo Sat 29-Jun-13 08:10:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheCountessOlenska Sat 29-Jun-13 08:54:55

sad Rollo, I wish I could give you good advice but all I can do is offer sympathy from someone who has been there. All I can say is it got easier with time. I actually wonder if we were ready to be parents (at 27 and 30!!!) A lot of mistakes were made on both sides.

Feelingood Sat 29-Jun-13 09:38:44

Oh rollo that is unforgivable you sure are being tested. Im pleased olenska shared her coming through the other side, people can and will get through stuff.

Welcome Olenska and family

Reading some of these posts has made me realise how far I've come with DH re parenting stuff - I do not mean this in any sort of smug way whatsoever. Years back I would have been smug I thought we had a good marriage and was quite judgey about other peoples stuff but NO WAY now. I feel I have a better understanding but not all the answers IYWIM. But I do know you don't LTB at the drop of a hat - like we discussed up thread re some threads/posters on here.

I think i struggle with wondering when it is my turn to be me again, mundane groundhogness. But to be fair my DH is always saying why don't you go shopping or goto gym etc I just want to sit on sofa have a coffee and not 'bothered' by anything around me. I should go when he tells me to.

I am drowning in housework at the moment, kitchen surfaces clean and toilets and thats it. Bedrooms are like jumble sales - we just have too much stuff ever ever - the garden is overgrown - we live in street where everyone else's is manicured - doesn't help.

This thread makes that being green book they give you about looking after your baby seem like a mockery - the government should be sued!

TeWiSavesTheDay Sat 29-Jun-13 10:04:07

I'm jot sure I could cope with that kind of learned helplessness Rollo.

Hello, I was on the other thread. Have a 4yo, 18 mo and am 5mths pg. We are perpetually broke, I can't drive and we live semi-rurally.

Just had a really hellish week, both children ill, hugely clingy and stroppy, plus DH out most evenings - then found out his work now want him to work away 4 days a week! I've said okay for now, but only until DD starts school. Feel like I have to say yes - we really can't risk him looking his job, but once DD is at school/I'm due DD2 I need him home and that's it.

DH is actually mostly great, perfectly happy to stand up to work, and wants to negotiate flexible working etc...

But they still always want me, and because we have no money I have no where to escape to when DH takes over. It's so exhausting.

middleclassdystopia Sat 29-Jun-13 10:22:46
Feelingood Sat 29-Jun-13 11:11:48

Perfect - I shall share this with my Mummy friends (all first timers to one year olds)

Feelingood Sun 30-Jun-13 22:17:06

How has everyone's weekend gone?

Birthday party here. Loads of no shows which made it awkward. I found it hard - like I was failing at my job and was being judged. DH just didn't feel that way, just accepted people hadn't turned up and got on with it.

I don't know. Am I too invested? All I can think is what a fucking waste

Writing the invites
Booking the venue
Buying food
Making food
Sorting party bags
Etc etc

And then 7 kids don't show up and instead if of
shrugging it off I think why am I doing this? I'm having issues at the moment of feeling invisible and in the back ground. Like I'm just here to enable everyone else's life rather than do anything for me.

I've drowned my sorrows a bit .... Sorry for the moan.

Feelingood Sun 30-Jun-13 22:38:29

Oh sauce no that is just bad form on the part of parents for not informing you so you could manage DC expectations - were they ok?

As for you feeling invisible...yeah yeah same here Dh went to training etc came back to where I was studying and just went to sit outside. I WAS STUDYING - the books all around - when DD woke from her nap I wheeled her out and he stuck cartoons on iPad (I found out later) - he has no clue how lazy that looks.

Why do you feel so invisible - do just do, so stuff and no get acknowledged?

I hope your DC ok re party. do you think people were rude and selfish because of warm weather?

It absolutely was because if the weather. The party was late afternoon and I think people had been out all day and just couldn't face it / wanted to stay out. I knew it was coming and I got text after text as I was preparing the food.

DD didn't notice but I felt awkward and flustered and venue felt empty. Thank god some kids came with siblings. We're about 12 there, including my two.

I don't feel acknowledged no. Though just as I wrote that DH said " well done for sorting today" . Which is a shock! I have complained today that I'm ignored ....

I know I'm a lynch pin. I know my family depend on me. So I feel both endlessly required and needed yet simultaneously ignored.

Feelingood Sun 30-Jun-13 23:57:09

your last sentence is exactly it sauce

im glad your DD was ok, least you shielded her from any potential emotional fallout.

Sometimes (and I love my DH am apply with our marriage but nothing is perfect) they just like bloody selfish zombie dads wfa_?

I have been reminding myself how much studying i actually do fit in. and how I segment day up.

I have learnt to sau 'I don't know when asked where something is...and retort back with stiuff that puts the ball in his court. I've learnt to be selectively selfish though not to the extent DH does.

Feelingood Mon 01-Jul-13 10:21:42

Morning..I hope you are all ok from weekend as thread quiet.

Im having a bit of a rant here so its just to get it off my chest

Im fed up of feeling conflicted I can't seems to make decisions re hold I do housework/garden/playgroup uni work.

Im fat and I CBA to diet quite frankly - gosh I sound such a lazy and greedy cow - Im sure if I did I would feel better and I wouldn't be having a sore back all the time. Fed up of being propped up my wine, coffee and chocolates depending what tie of day it is.

I just feel over whelmed by housework and don't know where to start. Im an educated person fgs so I should be able to cope.

Im now feeling v guilty as DH unprompted by me helped at the weekend cooked, hoovered and put through two loads of washing inkling hanging it out on line. I complain....then Oh Im all one the place and my periods not even due. Im not even sure if this anything to do with parenting a anymore think its just me.

But we are all clean, fed and dressed in clean clothes.

Not sure if DD is coming down with something as been very twisty this am and felt a bit warm. On hyper alert though as apparently babies we've recently been in contact with have come down with chicken pocks. Least I won't have to take her to playgroup I thought - how bad is that Oh the guilt.

TheCountessOlenska Mon 01-Jul-13 11:43:35

Hi Feeling, sorry you're feeling a bit down today. It takes a lot of mental energy to tackle weight ime- I managed to lose 2.5 stone before I had the DC's. Was hard work and I can't imagine putting that effort in now post - children.

My weekend was fine - DH works every weekend but THANK CHRIST I have my DM round the corner whom I rely on heavily!!

Today though - soooo tired - DD (3) up at 4.45 in spite of the new Gro-clock. Kept sending her back to her room to wait for the clock to change, she was crying, I was shouting blush. I am shattered now, should have just let her get in my bed sad

Badvoc Mon 01-Jul-13 12:32:53

Soo...we went away for the weekend.
Dh was ok til it was time to go home.
Had a blazing row in the car and poor ds1 started to cry sad
Feel utterly shitty and sad and angry and tired.
It was a free day out and dh refused to take the boys for a decent dinner before we headed home.
How can an adult think 2 dc can ait til after 9 pm for their dinner? They were it and tired and needed food.
So they ended up at a macdonalds drive through and then it was my fault that the dc are too picky with food.
Dreading the hols...only 12 days to go....sad

OddBodd Mon 01-Jul-13 12:52:42

Badvoc I feel your pain. No way can kids wait til that late for dinner. They'll be starving by then and way too tired to eat anything healthy.

I am feeling the same as a lot of you. I feel like everything rests on my shoulders, yet I am completely under-appreciated. Not that I expect constant praise and rewards but there are sometimes it would be nice to have someone show some gratitude or take some responsibility around here!

Weekend was utterly crap as expected. Like I said in one of my last posts, DH kindly volunteered to work Sunday. Then he got back around 4pm and had dinner with us. Then dropped into the conversation that his friend from work was coming to pick him up and they were going out to a pub for the evening to play poole. Great. DS1 cried and said he wanted Daddy to stay because he hadn't seen him all day and he knew it was the last day of the weekend sad This is the sad thing, he just doesn't think and doesn't realise how his selfishness effects a 5 year old and a 1 year old who just want their dad. He knows when he goes out, we're kind of house bound because I can't drive and buses don't even run on a Sunday here... Anyway, crap boring day for me and the boys.

Hope your weekends were better.

Badvoc Mon 01-Jul-13 12:59:34

Oh oddbod. That's so selfish of him! Your poor ds sad
That's what I feel worst about really...we made ds1 cry. But sometimes I get so upset and angry I have t day something but I shouldn't have.
Oh....and then ad he finished his burger bun ds2 told me he needed a poo.
So then we had to go and find a toilet. On a Sunday. In a not so great are of London.
That was fun.
Dh has said he will apologise to ds1 later.
I am utterly exhausted. Both dc slept late but I was awake before 7 sad

Feelingood Mon 01-Jul-13 13:23:58

Thanks countess I've started a list thread in housekeeping to help me along and I have made a start so feel a lot better. It better not rain <shakes fists towards windows> . You are l icky to have DM nearby wink. I have heard good things about gro-clocks its pointless if you don't stick to it, you will reap the rewards in the long run.

badvoc and oddbod - its one thing isn't having all the boring mundane, tiredness no me time, but to have it all added to by the other members of our supposed teams is not great.

badvoc look least you got out of the house and had good intentions but Im so sorry it ended like that - Ive been there too and feel like I have to keep the peace, but why should hew bite our tongues especially if it has something as basic as feeding the kids. I have been know to as DH if we should send them back, followed by, this is being parent <insert own name>

oddbodd thats just utterly selfish thing to do to the kids and really shitty you are left to deal with the fallout. I can't imagine being stuck in. I hope you manage to get out a bit today the weather seems fair here hope it is for you too.

Im plodding through sorting: bills that need shredding/recyling piles, school books to keep all the bits of stuff that end up downstairs that need re-locating arrggghhh. If i find another bloody hanger Im going to stick it up DH's bum hole. (sorry)

vladthedisorganised Mon 01-Jul-13 17:00:20

Hi everyone, hope I can share my hair-tearing-out state.

3yo DD is exhausting me. We went to a christening at the weekend and she was awful, but I don't know whether I'm expecting too much. I thought I was reasonably prepared with snacks, a colouring book, a book, lots of 'quiet' activities, but no, she wanted to go to the playground over the road instead. No, we can't go until after the service (as an aside, does the sermon have to be so damn long?). Why don't you do some colouring? Don't waaaaaant to, I want to go to the plaaaaaaygroooooound. We have to wait until afterwards, it's X's special day. Either sit still and be quiet or do some colouring. But I want to go to the plaaaaayyyygroooound..
Repeat until after service, where lo and behold she has a go on the playground while I fret that I've encouraged the whining.

Then on to lunch. Friend has laid on a barbecue at her house - very sweet. DD is the only 3yo there - unfortunate. I know friend's DH is very hot on table manners in general so I'm already feeling on edge. DD politely asks to try little bits of all the food - how wonderful, I think, and I relax a little. Relaxation hits rock-bottom when DD takes a tiny bite out of a bread roll and runs around friend's garden like a Tasmanian devil pretending the roll is the wheel of a racing car. I abandon my food and tell DD to come back to the table. DD sits reasonably quietly and I think all is well until she offers me her foot in a pitta bread "Look mummy, I made a sandwich!". I remind DD that she a) shouldn't play with her food, and b) should finish eating what she's chosen. "I've finished eating so now you have to come and play with me." she retorts. I would like nothing more than to just eat my sodding salad so ask DD to sit down for a minute (none of other adults are rushing to entertain DD). Instead of running about she repeats 'but you have to play with me noooooooowwwwwwww' until I take two more bites of salad on principle, remind her that 'nobody likes to hear a whiny voice', sit with her at the other end of the garden for two minutes ('we're sitting here until you're ready to behave like a big girl instead of playing with your food') and join her in a tedious game of hide-and-seek.

Friend helpfully points out parenting philosophy of 'only ever praise good behaviour and don't react to the bad behaviour' (did I mention her DC is 6 months old?), which I try to do anyway. Friend's DH tuts and says that they have to learn table manners at some point and 'maybe it's time to be strict'. I apologise unreservedly and leave immediately after the cake has been served (which DD scoffs having left all the savoury stuff). I fret that I have no idea whether DD is being normal or badly behaved. We go to the park for two hours that afternoon where I obediently push the swings, push the roundabout, run around after a football and make approving noises at how far DD can climb on the climbing frame. All in all, not a rip-roaring success. None of the 'good behaviour' I modelled seemed to have the slightest effect on DD (she had a tantrum because we had to leave the park/ I made her have a bath/ etc) and I'm left wondering whether friends are completely naive or whether I'm a hugely ineffective parent?

God, that was long. But it stopped me scoffing chocolate in a self-pitying manner, so thank you if you've got this far....

Badvoc Mon 01-Jul-13 17:12:00

I think your friends were the badly behaved ones tbh vlad!
Oh how they will say fully remember tutting at you and not helping with dd when their pfb is a toddler <evil laugh>
3 year olds and church don't really mix IMHO unless the church/vicar make it child friendly.
Don't be so hard in yourself. It sounds like a long day x

TheCountessOlenska Mon 01-Jul-13 17:51:39

I feel your pain vlad
Golden rule of parenting should be never offer advice unless you yourself have recently been through that exact stage! My friend has just had her pfb and I've caught her doing the odd hmm face at 3 year old DD .... she will learn grin
Will post about my nightmare afternoon with DD once she's asleep!!

OddBodd Mon 01-Jul-13 19:10:44

Good grief vlad your DD sounds perfectly normal for a 3 year old. In fact my 5 year old has really only just got to the point of me actually being able to take him anywhere without whining or creating some kind of a scene. For what it's worth, she sounds lovely and entirely THREE! Your friends will learn... the hard way!

I feel the same about my DS2 at the moment though. We had an appointment at the hospital today for his orthopedic boots to be measure and fit (he has hyper mobility so his ankles and knees are overly flexible) anyway, a few young men in the waiting room, a couple of old ladies, then me and DH with 18 month old DS2. He was wriggling and whinging from the second we got in there because he wanted to get down and explore but due to his hypermobility he STILL isn't walking, we decided it was probably best he wasn't crawling around in the dusty hospital corridor where there were wheel chairs and porters with trolleys rushing past etc, cue DS2 crying and writhing about like we were torturing him. Then come he tuts and the old ladies are rolling there eyes at us and I'm sat there think wtf am I supposed to do??

That's something I find so hard about parenting, how easily strangers judge you and let you know their opinions about something you often have no control over. Friends are just as bad. My friend only has one child, he was a pretty chilled out baby and toddler but this friend will insist on giving parenting advice. My babies haven't been like hers, that doesn't mean she was a better parent right???? My DS1 grew up OK, he's blooming lovely actually so why do I keep douting myself where DS2 is concerned? Everytime I leave a friend's house with DS2 screaming about being put in the pushchair or whinging, I feel like a failure.

Badvoc Mon 01-Jul-13 19:22:32

Aibu to let dh sort the dcs baths himself?
I have to door on my own all the time (when he is away, during hols etc)
I left everything out...towels, etc
Am sat watching Wimbledon and listening to the mayhem upstairs smile

Badvoc Mon 01-Jul-13 19:25:30

Oddbodd...wrt to old people judging...I just smile sweetly and plot their untimely demise smile

Ledkr Mon 01-Jul-13 20:06:55

vlad take it from me I've had five. Four I could take anywhere as babies and then came dc 5 who I take nowhere.
We are ok at parks, fields, festivals, beaches and camping (anywhere she can be feral) but don't do restaurants or anywhere too confined and won't do untill she's about twenty.
Learning to accept that has helped.
They are all different and having a lovely time at the park is far more fun than trying tonne her sit stil somewhere with judgey people onlooking.
They are little for so long so enjoy it while you can dont spoil it trying to stifle her.

DogsAreEasierThanChildren Mon 01-Jul-13 21:30:56

vlad, I feel your pain. DS is not quite three and is horrible most of the time. I spend my time with him either in the park wanting to poke my own eyes out with boredom or trying to get stuff done with him whinging in tow. I'm afraid DH and I just inflict him on other people because the alternative would be that we never left the house together, but our friends are all much nicer than yours sound. I would have been tempted to have words with the DH, to be honest, but it's probably more mature just to leave it a couple of years and tut when his DD is 3 and has terrible table manners...

curryeater Tue 02-Jul-13 09:46:38

Good to see you all. Have read the whole thread on phone last night but can't post on phone as no keyboard does my head in, and now at work. So just checking in to say hi and will post more later.
Have a good day, all.

Feelingood Tue 02-Jul-13 10:12:47

Hi curryeater

My two DC's have been doable so far this week. Im just in moaning mode about the housework.

I feel so conflicted like I'm never happy with whatever - i.e. DH helped this made feel guilty - I should be grateful. I think I'm going nuts. Back to housework for me - we've missed playgroup as DD is napping - little blighter had us all awake from 6am with coughing and mewing on.

KingRollo Tue 02-Jul-13 18:28:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheCountessOlenska Tue 02-Jul-13 21:03:17

Hi curryeater

KingRollo Glad you got a break - it makes all the difference doesn't it!

I am just listening to DH on the phone to work - second call of the evening plus he went out for a pint with a colleague hmm Had nice day off together today though - children well behaved which really makes all the difference. Me and Dh only start sniping when the kids are difficult blush

vladthedisorganised Wed 03-Jul-13 12:21:51

Thanks everyone. It's a funny thing, I've worked out that DD is absolutely delightful providing we're doing whatever it is she wants to do. So, an afternoon of running around at the playground is a happy smiley time for her, if stultifyingly dull for me. Getting cooking ingredients out and chucking flour over the table is fun for her, but clearing up is not, so she whinges.

Any attempt at making things fun!! and it's not a chore, it's a game!! tend to backfire, with DD passively watching me whirling about trying to pretend that clearing up Lego is the most fun activity you can possibly do. 'here's a blue brick. Can you put the blue brick in the box? And now can you find me a yellow brick? Yes, that's a yellow brick. Now can you put it in the box? How about finding all the yellow bricks and putting them in the box? What do you mean you've finished?"

I guess I'm not a naturally sunny person (i.e. sarcasm is my natural state) so being a fun, playful parent!!!! all the time can be extremely tiring. Faking it doesn't seem to make it any easier.

KingRollo glad you got some time to yourself for a change!

mrsibley Wed 03-Jul-13 12:45:41

Oh my God. Oh ladies. I think this thread and the thoughts it has provoked in me may genuinely have changed my life. On Sunday I posted in mental health because I was at the end of my tether, just so, so down abut the effect that being alone with my 2.5year old and 4mo kids is having on me. Someone told me about your original thread and just reading a few pages of it has completely changed my outlook.

Before, I thought it was just me, that I have underlying mental health issues (always been quite anxious), but what I am now realising is the incredibly obvious point that bringing up kids (in this society) is essentially very very stressful and the negative reactions we all have are in fact totally sane and appropriate. It's just that society forces us to hide this, and anyone who admits to really struggling is immediately labelled as having post natal/ depression or other mental illnesses.

Can I just take a moment to say this loud and clear in a safe space...I DO NOT HAVE POST FUCKING NATAL DEPRESSION. I AM "JUST" REALLY, REALLY FUCKING STRESSED BECAUSE MY LIFE RIGHT NOW IS INCREDIBLY FUCKING SRESSFUL. Thank you so much. I needed to get that out.

Sorry if I am repeating a lot of what has already been said but I have not had time to read through all the posts. My partner is away for 2-3 weeks at a time due to his job and I have very little support. I have been trying to type this for the last 2 hours between bouts of my baby dd's loud, angry screaming because she is over tired but refusing to sleep. My son woke me up at 5.30am demanding to watch cartoons and then pissed on the sofa because he couldn't be bothered using the potty which was only a few feet away. Their behaviour is entirely normal, in fact I would honestly describe them both as lovely natured children but I regularly feel like throwing myself under a bus if I am entirely honest. It's not my kids fault, they are just being normal kids its just you know when else in life are you expected to not simply tolerate, but actually ENJOY people who are very noisy, very messy, make constant, selfish and unreasonable demands of you, scream, whine, piss all over your house and disrupt your sleep?

I think that's what gets to me most of all really- the constant refrain of "enjoy every moment" because its all so "magical". I find the pressure to enjoy my kids more really quite soul destroying sometimes. I adore them and sometimes they make me happier than I have ever been in my life and I am immensely, intensely proud of them, the thought of them growing out of the cute baby/ toddler stage guts me, but I find that "enjoy every moment" thing just makes me feel like shit, because its all just part of this huge big myth of the magical golden glow of motherhood, which I probably bought into hook, line and sinker. Admitting that you hate it at times feels like a crime and it annoys me intensely that there is any kind of association made between how hard you sometimes find motherhood and how much you love your kids. Also no one wants to admit to having a "difficult " baby- I've watched mother on the edge of a meltdown manically rocking a shrieking, cantankerous beetroot faced child whilst sporting fixed grins and repeating "he's so good natured" like a mantra, just in case anyone mentally accuses them of not loving their child enough if they admit they are actually quite difficult- which of course is all the mother's fault anyway.

curryeater your first post on the original thread- the one with the references to sleep deprivation- is the best thing I have ever read on mumsnet. I had to reread it a few times just to let it sink in that there are people out there that actully understand this. Very few people in rl know this about me but when my so was a baby I had a bit of a breakdown and SO much of that was due to living constantly on the edge due to lack of sleep. I cant remember who the poster was that talked about going out looking immaculate and acting like it was all fine whilst falling apart inside but yup that was me, still is a lot of the time. People joke about sleep deprivation being a form of torture- but IT LITERALLY IS so why is it never taken seriously, and people ALWAYS trivialise it as if you are just a bit weak and pathetic if you suffer from it.

My partner is a lovely man and a great dad but his experience of this is jus so entirely different than mine and the lack of mental space I get to enjoy compared to someone who is removed from the family home for weeks on end is just so hard to describe to anyone who has not experience the sheer relentlessness of being the sole carer of young children. Sometimes e comes home and criticises the state of the house and I could actually commit murder. And don't even get me started on the way men vie a day with their kids as putting the telly on and getting on with stuff they need to do for themselves etc etc.

I could go on and on with this but have rambled enough. I will just say one more thing though which always comes to mind when thinking about the difference between being a mother and a father-I know a couple where the guy recently walked out on the woman and the young child and has actually completely erased them both from his life- geographically, financially and emotionally- because basically he did not feel as if he could, or rather wanted to cope (he considered this a choice). Now, there have been the usual reactions of "god what an absolute shit" etc etc but not much actual outrage and to be honest the woman has just been kind of expected to get on with it, which she has indeed. I often imagine how very different that situation would have been if the roles had been reversed and it was her that had just tried to walk away...psychiatric ward perhaps? At the very least branded an sick/evil bitch? The sympathy and support for the guy would have been slightly more forth coming I would imagine, with everyone wondering how on earth he was expected to cope...but she is a woman. She will be expected to plod on. And I can honestly say that he has got away with this scott bloody free.

Thank you for letting me get this off my chest.

Biscuitsareme Wed 03-Jul-13 12:59:00

I wish this thread had been around when DD1 was a baby. I thought I had PND, couldn't cope, etc etc, but reading this makes me realise it was sleep deprivation and social isolation. I thought I was going mad and I blamed myself. I felt so so vulnerable and dependent on OH. It still makes me angry thinking about how I did myself down at that stage. In fact I and everyone in else in that situation is a hero!

Go us!

KingRollo Wed 03-Jul-13 21:06:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

curryeater Wed 03-Jul-13 21:56:52

Hi all

Glad to hear you got a break, Rollo

Welcome Mrsribley

we have moved house. I am thrilled but knackered and weird and emotional. Almost cried on my new boss this morning when telling him something (a work thing!) that has been stressing me for ages. Pulled myself together though and I don't think I looked tearful.

Feeling inadequate with dp again. Rowed tonight because he wanted me to be enthusiastic about ikea on the internet and then say exactly when I was going to bed or what. I just wanted to have a cup of tea and not think about anything.
I am worrying about being depressed at him but also think he needs to chill the fuck out about what I am doing with my own time, drinking a cup of tea and staring out of a window might be my idea of fun (it is)
I was happy before I got home but apparently not happy enough
I feel so hectored and picked at sometimes

the girls are lovely. Love them madly. They can be crazy making but if you are not exhausted or hung over and roll with it, they are fab. I would tell anyone with children under 4: HANG IN THERE THEY TURN HUMAN. Can't believe how I look forward to seeing dd1. I feel guilty admitting it but no matter how much I loved her (insanely) I never used to actually want her to stop being somewhere else (like asleep). It was always too soon. Now - can't wait to see her. Of course I work so it's different. But still - my little buddy. On Sunday she was ratty and shattered and so was I so I made her get into bed with me after lunch. She brought her activity book and pencil and did the activities sitting up while I dozed and gave half-arsed instructions and encouragement and then she lay down and put her arms around me and fell asleep. We both slept for ages and I hate sleeping with people usually but I loved that sleep. I think of it in the week when I am blue and lonely and struggling at work.

I've missed my sleep. I think I might go to sleep now. Hoping everything can be ok when I get over all the tiredness from living sleeplessly in the crappy house, the move, and all that is going on at work too. But so not sure about dp. Not sure whether he is controlling, I am depressed, or we are just not really in love

OddBodd Wed 03-Jul-13 22:10:52

Hi everyone, nice to see new posts and new faces on here. The more I read, the more it reassures me I'm not just a shit mum and a lazy, selfish cow.

Very true about the men who walk out and leave the kids. This of course is a stereotype but in general, women don't get the option to leave their children and swan off into the sunset. I've thought about it though, believe me!

I have been trying to keep me and DS2 busy while DS1 is at school but it's not easy. I am going to sound horrible but I find babies and young toddlers so bloody boring and draining. Everything is about them needing something RIGHT NOW and everything results in whinging or crying.

If I have a drink, he wants it. I manage to grab something to eat, even though he's eating his own (often identical) meal, still he whinges for mine. I am just so exhausted by it. I just wanted a cup of tea in peace today and I had a flash back to when DS1 was around this age. I vividly remember putting DS1 in the living room with his toys. I snook through to the kitchen and ate some chocolate digestives with my head stuffed into the cupboard so he wouldn't be able to see that I was eating! I was just so desperate not to be disturbed and for once not have to have a toddler hanging off my leg wanting my food! I can't count the number of tantrums DS1 had when I wouldn't let him have my HOT cup of tea.... it got to the point where I just stopped having hot drinks til he was about 3! I forgot how bloody annoying and boring it all is.....

Before we had DS2 I used to think that DC2 would be so different. DS1 had been so highly strung and difficult as a baby/ toddler. Turns out he's his bloody clone! Gaaah!

Anyway, sorry to moan about the small stuff. I know it's not a major thing but I just crave some time alone. Even away from DH. Just to be somewhere alone, with noone touching me or hanging off me or expecting attention. Just for a day!

I mustn't complain too much. DH came in from work and took DS1 out for a walk in the woods to collect 'tinder' (DS1 is obsessed with Bear Grylls and survival stuff) so that was thoughtful of him. DH can be amazing... and an arsehole all in the same day.

Anyway, it seems quieter on here. How is everyone doing?

OddBodd Wed 03-Jul-13 22:16:38

Ohh Curry your last post was beautiful. Congrats on the house move. Hope you are all settled in soon. Aww your sleep with DD sounds lovely. I love the 'they turn human' comment too. So true. I know this because of DS1 but it's so hard to see it when you're still in the trenches with whingy babies, sleepless nights and tantrums isn't it?! We will get through this. My 18 month old will stop smacking his brother, biting me when he's frustrated and whinging all the time..... right????!

vladthedisorganised Wed 03-Jul-13 22:22:35

curryeater, I could hug you for that last post.
A small miracle happened this evening. DDad (lovely chap, loves to discuss economics, no idea what to do with dd) had acquired a spirograph and Dd was completely mesmerised by it. The three of us had a great time swirling patterns on paper, DD and I continued at home. No tantrums about tidying up. No argument over bathtime. Quite happy with a single bedtime story. As she snuggled into bed she grinned and chuckled "I did like making the swirly drawings. It was nice of Granddad to get the wheel things, wasn't it? Night night!"
Wow. The spirograph will come out again!
Hope everyone's doing ok..

MacMac123 Wed 03-Jul-13 22:36:02

Great post mrsibley. Welcome.
And curry, don't worry too much about DH, and your feelings. It might just be a phase. Have been in and out of love with DH so many times for no clear reason(apart from low level contsant irritation!)
The out of love bit usually passes! Although I'm not sure it's possible to be 'in love' as we once were at the same time as both working and 2 small children!

Ledkr Wed 03-Jul-13 22:56:24

Dd2 today has thrown into the mix.

Repeatedly undoing her car seat straps.
Falling to the ground on purpose in asda car park causing me to fall over! In public.
Bit dd1 then pulled her hair!
Sliding out of buggy just asking awaited elevator arrived causing me to miss it.

I had a little meltdown then felt guilty all evening.
When I spoke to dd1 to apologise I sounded like an abuser "you know in tired so why wind me up?" hmm
Hope you all have peaceful nights x

TheConstantLurker Wed 03-Jul-13 23:00:42

Hi all. Congrats on house move Curryeater.
I think I'm coming down with something and so have lain on bed since I made the dinner. Eldest comes in and very excited about some Internet person I never heard of and 'like, he did this and like, y'know.....oh it was brilliant, y'know and I'm like oh my god y'know........' my eyes have glazed over and I am struggling to even look slightly interested.
Youngest also has long 'conversations' during which she will repeat the same thing many many times. Gah
The baby years were much more interesting to me because they change so much all the time. After 3 it's a lot of the same, all of the time, over and over.

mrsibley Thu 04-Jul-13 07:13:19

Hi everyone. Only after posting yesterday I realised how ridiculously long my post was so am amazed any of you took the time to read it, thank you.

I have terrible problems with my sleeping due to anxiety. It's incredibly frustrating because my baby is actually a good sleeper- i really really don't take that for granted btw as have experienced the alternative-but I am so messed up that this morning for instance I have lain here awake for hours obsessing about my sons nursery place. This is just a typical example of the knock on effect of stress for me. I have to decide on hours for him and my obsession with time management (due to being alone with kids and no time) added to my chronic indecision (due to lack of sleep+stress overload+no one to discuss things with) mean that this just goes round and round my head 24/7 and stresses me out completely.

I am absolutely shattered, fierce ball of raging anxiety in my stomach and dreading the day ahead. This is where it gets really bad for me, when I haven't slept.

Badvoc Thu 04-Jul-13 07:37:56

Mrs...I can empathise.
I used to be the same and at times if great stress revert back to that state.
Have you considered meds for your anxiety/sleep issues?
I went on ADs for 4 months and they transformed my life, frankly.
Amazing what a good nights sleep can do!

curryeater Thu 04-Jul-13 09:50:13

Mrsribley, sorry if this is missing the point, but if you want to "talk through" with us here the issues about the nursery place, it might help. I know what you mean about getting stuck in an "if - then" loop and sometimes just getting all the issues out on the table with someone else really helps. Sometimes it is a swings / roundabout situation and you just have to pick one, and sharing it all makes it easier to pick one.

thanks for the congrats constantlurker!

macmac123, thanks for saying "don't worry" which I read on my phone last night before dropping off. It helps! I think "in love" is actually aiming a bit too high. but worrying about it all doesn't help

vlad, lovely to hear about the spirograph.

I think moments like that, when they actually get interested in something, are what is so lacking when they are tiny tiny. And they all arrive at that level of peaceful engagement with something at different times.... dd2 is very full on in a physical way that dd1 has never been, but she will dive into a box of duplo and get absorbed in it in a way that dd1 didn't at that age. I don't think. How do I know? - my memory is shot. I do think though with dd1 I often thought, for years, "when do they learn to play?" I suppose the answer is different for all of them but since dd1 started trying to write and draw she is so focused in a way she never was with toys

Feelingood Thu 04-Jul-13 10:29:26

Morning, catching up on posts. I am out again today (more about that later)

For now I want to get this off my chest. My toddler is not a bother at the moment.

DS would not get ready for school this am we were late. I shouted, told him not speak anymore (whiney) and at one point he got a smack.

I don't know thoughts about smacking between posters on this thread I know I would be demonised on other threads. But needless to say I feel a complete fail for two reasons

1) I can't get my child ready for school and there on time

2) I handled it all badly

DD asleep, I'm going to have a shower and do hair and make-up (don't feel like I deserve it)

Im having one of those weeks of much self doubt and I don't feel normal - I knw I probably over think theses things too much

Feelingood Thu 04-Jul-13 10:32:31

*mrs ribley post your details of times etc and see we can offer some practical advice.

What times and days do you work
What times is the nursery/school available

TheConstantLurker Thu 04-Jul-13 10:52:46

Feeling I have smacked mine. I'm not anti smacking. I don't like myself for it but I regard it as a final resort. AND it is a dis-incentive for my DCs so it works. Again society and many other mothers will make you feel you have failed if you smack a child.
I was on ADs for two years. Massive difference.

sensesworkingovertime Thu 04-Jul-13 12:00:16

Any attempt at making things fun!! and it's not a chore, it's a game!! tend to backfire, with DD passively watching me whirling about trying to pretend that clearing up Lego is the most fun activity you can possibly do Oh Vlad that is hilarious and I loved all your !!!!!!!!, it made you sound like a childrens' TV presenter (anyone here old enough to remember 'Playschool' in the Brian Cant days?)

I agree putting on an act like this is at best exhausting and at worst would drive you to utter madness.

Rollo I could feel your relaxation vibes streaming through t'net...that's brilliant!

Mrsibley welcome, your post looks fab and I will read in more detail later meanwhile washing to hang out and guinea pigs to muck out...

mrsibley Thu 04-Jul-13 13:37:44

Thanks for the offer to talk it through but its quite a complicated and tedious situation involving so many factors. I'm on maternity leave at the moment and have no idea what my working life will be like this time when I go back (for various other, complicated reasons) but the nursery want me to predict when I will be back at work, what days and which hours- in 6-9 months time! This affects what hours my son can have in the mean time. He is entitled to some hours free a week as will be turning 3 soon and believe me I am taking them but if I want to keep days open for me to go back to work I have to pay extra so that its not just 3 hours a day over 5 days which will be no use to me when working...sorry I did tell you it was tedious. It all comes down to the fact its not a private nursery and you cant just get whatever hours you like and I am totally confused with it all.

This sounds terribly spoilt but I am so stressed at the moment I am just trying to come up with a plan of how I can help myself which involves making time for things I can do, with a baby in tow, which have helped my mental health in the past and I really want to arrange nursery round this if possible as it is my only form of childcare (no grandparents etc). Things like exercise classes I can take the baby with me to-this helps massively even though I hate it (!) and I have been referred by the dr for acupuncture which has also helped me in the past. Actually- why do I think that makes me sound spoilt goddammit! I am fighting for my health here in order to benefit my entire family, and if I had any physical health issues my need for treatment would not be in question.

I think I am going to piss the nursery woman off quite a bit if I do not take and pay for all the hours she is offering me and I feel a bit intimidated because I'm so anxious right now and I also hate people knowing I am anxious.

I already am on medication by the way- can you not tell???!!! ;)

curryeater Thu 04-Jul-13 13:55:35

mrsribley - "Actually- why do I think that makes me sound spoilt goddammit! I am fighting for my health here in order to benefit my entire family, " - Yay! Yay! Yay! See, you said it "out loud" and you identified the apologetic voices in your head as wrong! More! More! More!

Right here is my tuppence worth on the nursery sitch

- don't worry about pissing the nursery woman off, this is for you not for her
- if you can't predict what you will need in 6 - 9 months' time then I think you need to take what you need now and worry about then, then. Sorry if this is not helpful, as it leaves things uncertain, but aren't they uncertain anyway? As I understand it, you will have to pay more to secure hours that may be useful later (but you don't know what your work pattern will be). That doesn't sound like a great deal, unless I have got it wrong, which means you are being unjustifiedly affected by the thought of someone else being pissed off, which, frankly, fuck her.

I hope we have already established that getting the hours you need now to do certain things is not frivolous or selfish? Yes?

Anything any clearer?

mrsibley Thu 04-Jul-13 14:24:28

Thank you so much curry eater. Stuff like this is a total head fuck for me because I'm tired, anxious, easily confused and also feel really guilty that I have kept my son attending nursery for a while since my daughter was born and I e been off work, even though I know other people have done the same even with partners or other support at home and I have no opinion or judgement on them whatsoever.

I really believe that a lot of the angst caused by modern parenting is down to the lack of communities and extended families for so many people like myself. Not only does it often isolate mothers of young children but also if people in my situation want to set a foot outside the front door without both children in tow I have to put one in child care which creates another minefield of dilemmas (if you are neurotic like me).

I hate the modern world.

mrsibley Thu 04-Jul-13 14:28:43

And yes curryeater what you said has helped clarify things. Fuck her indeed.

curryeater Thu 04-Jul-13 15:40:08

mrsribley, I agree (a bit - I don't hate the modern world although I guess you were joking! but I agree is a weird and horrible anomaly that society has decreed that childcare falls on the narrow and quivering shoulders of one woman per family)

But it also depends on what kind of children you have - I looked a complete and utter fright for the whole periods that my two were ebf, because I couldn't work out how to get a decent haircut - it was either uncut or hacked by the local very cheap n cheerful hairdresser while my dp minded the baby - and when I asked a friend with a baby the same age how she managed to get such a good haircut, she had taken the baby into town and left her in the pram while it was cut. Mine just would not put up with that, neither of them, so I didn't have a good haircut until I had food-eating cup-drinking babies left with paid childminders while I worked. So, yes, grab those nursery hours!

sensesworkingovertime Thu 04-Jul-13 16:41:47

Hi * Mrsibley* and welcome, your post was amazing and so true, I almost laughed out loud when you used the phrase I feel like chucking myself under a bus, this is me on a regular basis. Just for starters the walk home from school today was so stressful but that's a whole other story....

There's so many points I could pick up on but just now will whole heartedly agree with - And don't even get me started on the way men vie a day with their kids as putting the telly on and getting on with stuff they need to do for themselves etc etc. That's so bloody true and doesn't it make your blood boil? And I don't know about you lot but my DH specialises in watching me struggle for days/weeks/months/years with a certain issue with DC (eg DD getting her arse into gear to get ready for school) while merrily doing his own thing. Then, when I am at the point of being put in a darkened room in a straitjacket, he steps in coolly with the line "You're doing it all wrong, why don't you try such and such". angry angry angry

sensesworkingovertime Thu 04-Jul-13 16:47:10

mrsibley in your OP can I ask if you meant anything in particular when you talked about bringing up kids "in this society", it's just that I have a few issues with modern society too and wondered what you meant?

mrsibley Thu 04-Jul-13 19:39:58

Ok what I mean by the problems of this modern (sound so old) society is that a) in the olden days you were more likely to have your mum next door and your sister across the street and maybe know your neighbours. I know this was not always the case but I think there was less of the lone woman living in her little box separate from the rest of the world iyswim, and people weren't so rabidly suspicious of each other so there was maybe a bit more sense of community around.

b) our standards of living are now so relatively high and our expectations of our lifestyles and what we think we need to achieve/have/look like are constantly expanding to ever more exhausting/ self esteem squishing proportions

C) nobody really gave a rats ass about how you fed/ disciplined/ entertained your kids back in the day as long as they were happy and healthy enough, compared to how much angst and controversy everything seems to cause nowadays. What I mean by this is I don't think there was quite as much judgement and criticism was aimed at mothers as it is now.

D) disclaimer: I do not advocate anything that is dangerous to the health children. But my god EVERYTHING is now deemed a health/ safety hazard. There is something potentially wrong with everything they could possibly eat or drink- is it exclusively breast milk/ free from any sugar/ processed/ artificial/ organic/ ethically produced?? Which way does YOUR car seat face?? And how long has your baby been sitting in it? (only 20 mins allowed in a jumparoo I heard lately). Does your baby want to sleep on their front? NEVER let this happen you irresponsible fool. Oh my god your not letting them use a baby walker are you? Are all your neighbours/ family friends/ potential babysitters POLICE checked?? Etc, etc, etc.

Please note: I am a fairly neglected child of the 1970s/ 80s and it is wonderful in many ways how we have learnt and progressed since then. Alls I am saying is when you put all of the above together, sprinkle with a little bit of an anxious disposition and dump on the "narrow and quivering shoulders" (fabulous, curryeater) of one often sleep deprived woman and well, it's a lonely, scarey, stressful old world out there sometimes for mothers.

Epic post sorry x

KingRollo Thu 04-Jul-13 20:39:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsPatrickDempsey Thu 04-Jul-13 20:41:51

Really struggling at the moment. All they do is consume my hard earned cash, never do as they are told, demand, trash. I feel like a PA - responsible for organising everything and they can't even remember to bring bloody lunch box home. Am I expected to bail them out for ever? Daughter announces today that she needs her glitzy Hollywood themed dress by tuesday. No please - just a "I did tell you" - she did not. Fed up!

KingRollo Thu 04-Jul-13 20:46:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NutsinMay Thu 04-Jul-13 21:12:26

Just popping in to wave and say hello!

Things calming down for me at the moment but still read your posts to keep up to date with everyone else.

I am lucky in that I have a half hour commute on the bus to work (pre children this wouldn't have been one of life's pleasures!) and I find something that is helping me at the moment is to use this time to read a book (too tired in the evenings).

I used to read lots of parenting books and come home and read lots of parenting forums. So all I thought and obsessed about was parenting. I must have been a total baby bore for years.

I have started reading lots of books about travellers, explorers and adventurers and have found myself escaping and fantasising about all the things I'm going to do when the children are older. I'm not wishing their childhood away exactly but I'm trying to set myself some goals that aren't parenting relating. Yes I might not climb Everest but maybe I could get up Ben Nevis in a couple of years. Maybe I could start training for a Marathon in a couple of years.

I really think I've lost sight of me and what I want to do and thinking about things/hobbies I might want to take up as the DC get older is really helping me develop a more positive frame of mind about the future.

NutsinMay Thu 04-Jul-13 21:13:38

And welcome MrSibley and others!

Ledkr Thu 04-Jul-13 21:44:23

mrspatrick I feel the same as you. Just been to new parents evening for dd1 secondary school spend god knows how much on uniform with still loads to buy and will have to name it and pack it etc and remind her constantly of everything for the next five years. I spent the child benefit and now I can't pay my nursery bill tomorrow <sobs>
I never have anything for myself either.

TheConstantLurker Thu 04-Jul-13 22:11:58

It must be easier now because I fell asleep after the school run for an hour and a half. I couldn't have done that with a 7yr, 2yr and newborn. I must thank my lucky stars and count my blessings! grin
slight tongue in cheek there.
However it dawned upon me the other day, that yes the summer holidays are fast approaching and I will have at least two small bodies to haul everywhere with me should I wish to leave the building. This does happen every year so it must be I dunno, amnesia or something. Or maybe I just crave more freedom this year.

MrsPatrickDempsey Thu 04-Jul-13 22:33:14

Hello DD is 11 and DS is 7 next week. I didn't realise that having children is so thankless, relentless, tedious, expensive, stressful ..... Think you can tell I have a bad day and to wrap it up, my husband has just accused me if not being very good with our son. :-(

superstarheartbreaker Thu 04-Jul-13 22:50:11

Hi all. Hope your all bearing up. I'm actualy going to start a thread in mental health as I think I have borderline personality disorder. I'm very snappy and inconsistent with dd and I shout a lot at the slightest thing followed by guilt and love. I'm so scared i will fuck her up like my mum fucked me up.
I'm reading a book on borderline personality disorder and apparently one thing that causes it is inconsistent parenting. Great.

Feelingood Thu 04-Jul-13 23:12:22

welcome superstar take your time... this is a lovely thread.

Feelingood Fri 05-Jul-13 06:44:36


floods of tears here already. can't go on like this nnb

Ledkr Fri 05-Jul-13 06:46:46

feeling what's up love?

KingRollo Fri 05-Jul-13 06:47:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Badvoc Fri 05-Jul-13 06:51:52

What's wrong love?

Ledkr Fri 05-Jul-13 06:56:22

Tissues, cup of tea and a few biscuits.
Crap on tv for kids and then spill!
You know that you will be past this soon.

mrsibley Fri 05-Jul-13 07:13:59

Morning guys. Sorry you having a hard time feelinggood hope you can get support from us on here at least.

superstar I'm no doctor but have been told that my mum had borderline personality and there was a lot more to it that being snappy and inconsistent so please don't write yourself off...what you describe also sounds like symptoms of real stress. The thing with my mum was she had no self awareness either and therefore no opportunity or inclination to change which you obviously do. I totally understand the fear of messing your kids up like your parents though, it's a big fear of mine too x

Feelingood Fri 05-Jul-13 07:18:47

thanks, and thanks fro just being here sorry my post got cut off.

I have really tried to boost myself this week after a boring start and worrying about housework and feeling guilty I went out wed (playgroup plus coffee), yesterday a lunch date with friend she adores my DD so is easy to meet up IYSWIM. Today i am meeting my original group mums who i see once/twice per month.

The kids haven't been particularly difficult (except yesterday am with DS who I ended up smacking - Im sorry he wasn't marked etc I feel v bad) we went to a country park after school - beautiful etc kids had a great time, bedtime easy etc.

But I feel lonely and I feel like cinderella - we have a nice standard of living I have a nice car etc. My DH has been well just unpleasant to be around snappy and snarly and I feel like he always organising stuff to go off and do with the grown ups and last night he complained about where he could take his team for a posh year end work do....he has just gone out to the gym with the other adults then to work.

It made me feel like he is busy living this life almost separate and it has opened up a few scars from before. I have shared all the above with him and he said we will organise something I just heaved a huge sigh and said you mean me - I shall have to DO I alway's have to DO. He has said he is going to work from home for a couple of days. He s trying, but I ended up sitting there crying as he was going....Im not 'due' either!

Its like he comes home and we just 'happen' around him. How many times he has asked me questions about events etc and I have to repeat it all again....and to top it off the final insult was I had 'organised tomorrow for myself' its a bloody OU tutorial the is part of a set schedule - I drive for 45 min each way to attend for two hours. Although I enjoy my studying which I can't seem to get done at the moment it is the equivalent of work. I said Im sorry I will look forward to getting my 'colours' ready to colour in my pretty diagrams like a good little wifey.

So im not upset over anything major its general malaise I fear I sound ungrateful, feel trapped, lonely, bored cos I can't even get uni studying done. Every night after the kids are in bed we watch the tv stuff off planner, he always falls asleep and I sit there on my own.

There is so much I wanted to respond to yesterday but never got back on last night - I was doing a costume for DS.

Ledkr Fri 05-Jul-13 07:53:04

Oh feeling it dies sound as if you are getting the shitty end of the stick?it makes me so angry when men just carry on making plans as if they are in no way responsible for their chikdren. I was married to a man like this (note the was) and I spent most if my life fuming.
I remember on holiday he would literally lie on a sunbed and roast while I ran around after our four dc.
On a plane he'd sit away from us to look out of the window then comment on it being a good flight while I coped with them all.
On a boat he'd go on top deck and leave me for hours.
I remember vomiting with a baby in my arms hmm
What can you do about it though?
You've expressed how you feel but maybe you should take more action but if you are anything like me you are too tired to. I have no energy for anything anymore.
I feel for you with your proactive week.
I do that, make nice plans then life steps in to ruin them.
Our car was smashed up on Tuesday not our fault. Insurance bought courtesy car last night but our photo licences out if date so we can't have it angry so that's me fucked for work and most other things!

mrsibley Fri 05-Jul-13 08:01:44

I can relate to a bit of that feelinggood. I'm doing a course as well just 2 days a month to retrain and never get time or mental space to study. My dp is due home from 2 weeks working away tonight and I don't know how many times I've had to repeat that ds is meant to be going to a party tomorrow and he will need to take him as I am on my course. I've had to organise a bloody fancy dress costume (do other parents not realise the hassle this creates) but now I've realised that I've forgotten the bloody present and can't rely on dp to go and get something suitable in the morning. Always some way that I am never quite organised.

Dp will have both kids by himself for most of the next couple days while I am at my course during the day and will then think he can imagine what it's like for me being alone for 2 weeks every month, god love him. Also know what you mean about feeling ungrateful- I always feel like I have to qualify any complaint about the effects of his job ( impossible to have a normal family life) by saying how much I appreciate that he has a good job and I don't have to work full time (except for 24/7 parenting of course but hey who counts that). I really do appreciate that but I also really really hate and resent what his job does to our lives too if I am totally honest.

TheCountessOlenska Fri 05-Jul-13 08:22:08

Morning everyone!

superstar I am snappy and inconsistent all the time as well sad Think it is mainly caused by tiredness though.

Feelinggood I have smacked too. Hate it.

Rollo I am very relaxed about health and safety - I want my children to have the same freedom I had. Baby had lovely time at the weekend rolling around the grass at a National Trust property, unfortunately his first solid food may have been deer droppings blush

I think I'm not a baby person - I love seeing each move towards some independence from the DC.

Out of interest does anyone on here have more than 2 kids? Or planning more than 2? I find it SUCH hard work with toddler and baby but at the same time love imagining a big happy family of 3 or 4 siblings confused. Then I think it must be only the well-organised, calm, non-shouty mummies who have more than 1 or 2 - like I don't deserve any more as I probably couldn't cope??

Ledkr I know you had 4 then a gap then 1 - did you find the first 4 easier?

Feelingood Fri 05-Jul-13 10:08:31

Thank you again

ledkr I have to say when he is here he does help but just seems to pretty god at getting his own shit stuff together and then will pitch in as afterthought. He does 50/50 at weekends, even did laundry last weekend. But just.. he gets to have adult time and I'm resentful. Whereas my adult time is only of I'm v v v v sure kids are sorted then checked some more IYSWIM.

superstar Like some have said on this thread its relief to realise that other feel like this and w are nt actually going NUTS! However I think it is mental endurance test, it test your stamina and at times it takes chunks out of us (this mothering business) and we don't even realise we have a chunk missing - if that makes any sense. I often think my self esteem has gone right down and all this obsessing over standards makes us paranoid and anxious what others think - well it does for me. I can go round in circles - this is why its best to keep busy.

I think mrsribley said about the value of doing things that help mental health - I had ANP and PND re loss of twin (early) with DS and I used self help strategies. I don't think I ve ever been the same again I used to be quite ballsy (?) and confident and now whilst still outgoing a I ave so much self doubt...worries. You know when I go to that tutorial tomorrow I am leaving at 930 (allowing twice the time) and I am going for coffee and will get back in my own good time.

badvoc and kingrollo thanks for asking earlier and as with toehr having this space to talk honestly.

countess Thanks for sharing re smacking. Its not something we use as a threat and DH has never smacked DC ever. Its just me...need to count to ten next time or summit - will be reading. I would have loved a big family, but DH never wanted more. After DD (16months) I thought how I would love another baby as it was so much more positive second time round but now I'm into my second/third year of doing everything with two I sure don't want anymore. I always find myself biting my tongue and not complaining generally but especially if Im talking to someone who has a bigger family, had trouble conceiving, seems so sorted they wouldn't comprehend one bit of what my point was.

Well I've done school run minus dinner money and a stuff for school fayre so add on an extra 30 mins of running about because i wasn't organised but DS went in a fab IMO costume with his face painted and glitter hair. It was so lovely to see all the kids int heir costumers (always a good turnout in full one gear) including all staff lined up outside in full head to toe costumes each.

Im taking this hour now to sit and do my online stuff then I'm off out for a garden picnic at 12, then school run, then swimming. I don't know when I wil do laundry, cook the evening meal......but O do know there will be numerous changes of clothes, cleaning, wiping and general groundhogness.

Thanks for having my long post.

TheConstantLurker Fri 05-Jul-13 12:05:33

Hey! feeling hope you are having a nice picnic in the sun now. I totally understand the feelings you describe about your husband getting adult time and about doing it all. When I started getting out of my worst patch I told my DP that I would no longer be responsible for presents for his relatives, thank you cards ditto. I started coming downstairs in the morning at weekends and breezily saying that I was off out for a couple of hours- the children's school clothes needed washed and then they should be hung out oh and btw the cats been sick in the living room, bye!!
Chaos ensued and in fact still continues to some extent but the huge burden is gone feeling is gone.
Now I am beginning to feel restless about getting out in the evenings.......

Biscuitsareme Fri 05-Jul-13 13:44:44

ConstantLurker your post resonates with me. I had this seemingly endless stretch of feeling resentful, sleep-deprived, put upon, invisible and unappreciated, yet also unable to complain about anything because I had it 'easy' for not 'having' to earn. I also felt I didn't want a paid job because I couldn't bear to be away from DC2 and after all I was the mum, it was my responsibility.

When youngest DC was 1 and no longer BF I did start working part-time again and realised
a. that paid work was actually great and good for my sanity
b. that we could just about afford part-time nursery even on the half day that I didn't go into work.
c. that the thinking time this spare half day gave me helped enormously in sorting myself out.

It was a gradual process of questioning why it should be automatically me who takes responsibility in organising everything to the sea change of no longer doing it all but I got there in the end. If OH is taking DC to a b'day party, he now knows he's supposed to buy the present and organise logistics re time, venue etc. If he doesn't, not my fault! If I've been out and come back to DC watching a DVD and OH upstairs on the computer, OH gets a sarky comment from me on his spending quality time with the DC. But I refuse to feel guilty about DC potentially losing out. Not my responsibility.

I feel I'm not out of the woods yet- a lot still feels like drudgery. But youngest DC will be in school soon. I have started to go out about 3 nights a month (sometimes just a glass of wine at neighbour's house for an hr) but it's like, inch by inch, I'm clawing bits of 'me' back and it feels good. smile

Feeling, badvoc, rollo and others, here's another poster cheering you one flowers and who needs a bit of cheering on herself

curryeater Fri 05-Jul-13 14:16:53

Good afternoon brave warriors

Just checking in to say I have read all the recent posts, and so much of it resonates.

I have difficulty appealing in my imagination to past community-orientated times as being havens of mutual support because it seems to me that there were those beyond the pale, beyond the reach of support, and things would have been even worse for those. Unmarried mothers, those in mixed race relationships, generally noncomformist types were very harshly treated by the ad hoc community morality that also sent women out into the houses of the newborn to support the mother. Let's not forget that all this support was enormously necessary because no one had any appliances, and no one's husband lifted a finger. So the women scurrying into your house while you were "lying in" were there as much to make sure your lord and master got his dinner, as to make sure you and your other children did, or more.

I remember the 70s fondly as a time when council houses and the NHS seemed to be doing their job pretty well. but I think it was a harsh time if you didn't fit in for whatever reason. And before then could have been worse.

I think we have it in our power to make things better than they ever were - not us as individuals, but as a generation - to work on a synthesis between the freedom of individualism, where you can have or be anything, if you can pay for it; and the security of all those nosy neighbours, who could hound you from the village if you did something "wrong". Now is our chance - sadly we seem to be pissing it up the wall by dismantling the state that was, for a while, trying to be the better part of both - but let's dream, and think big.

Ledkr Fri 05-Jul-13 15:28:33

Well I had three ds then 12 yrs gap and dd1 then another 9 yrs then dd2
1st gap as had breast cancer in between and second due to remarriage.
When I had her It was unexpected and I had such a nice life. I'd gone past all the baby stuff and had a buzzing social life and lots of holidays which of course is now a thing of the past. Dd2 has been hard work and didn't sleep all night until recently. I am an older mum and have done it all before so I'd say its not easier no. I've been resentful and knackered. I've ruined my figure and look my age which I'd never done before sad
Ok day today tho. At the open air pool she is napping while I sunbathe!

mrsibley Fri 05-Jul-13 17:58:31

I think you are right curryeater about the problems of the past I guess I am just talking as someone who only has one family member living in the same city, no parents and think that when people used to tend to live nearer each other it maybe made it a bit easier to raise kids on extended families. That's all I was referring to, I wasn't imagining that in the past everyone was embraced and supported by the wider community.

Feelingood Fri 05-Jul-13 20:49:26

constant well DH as I read these posts has just said you having your ay off tomorrow - so something must of stuck from tears this am. He's not a bad sort. so being positive now I have a night out next Sat and next Sun. We are at a family festival on Sun, DH has just organised chairs etc.

biscuits my lovely mum friends today said yes, going to work is a break and the other one said the relief of dropping her DS off at nursery to days a week is great. Im lucky I have this from RL mums.

curryeater yep definitely and I think for a lot of mums who want to breastfeed can struggle as there isn't the wise women folk of older generations nearby in the street/family with the knowledge and skills to pass down. Id never seen anyone breastfeed until I did myself with the first one! DM never breastfed. My mum said you HAD to go to clinic every week, she said there wasn't much else to do as you saw a lot of people there. I think we are so child centred to our detriment. When I think how many years my mum was on her own with us two kids....

ledkr we've been to our outdoor pool - you in DL?

Anyway DS had a l ittle tearful protest but we didn't do the school fayre - I was hot and fed up and not wanting tat. I bought him off with ice cream.

Wine - sleep - tutorial - sleep - festival. - if only it were that simple <inserts drudge>

MacMac123 Fri 05-Jul-13 22:09:52

Feeling I know exactly what you mean re resentful of DH adult time.

Me too!

Got no good advice though, sorry sad

Ledkr Fri 05-Jul-13 22:20:24

No in in glos.
Had nice time only interrupted by dd1 being a princess and two refusing to hold hands thus running into car park.
Funny though feeling I once was there and asked a mum to watch the baby's towel while we swam.
On mn later that day it transpires it was a mn I'd been speaking to for few weeks!
We remain close friends.

TheConstantLurker Sat 06-Jul-13 08:38:45

Well my DP would always be saying 'take time off, go out' but it isn't always quite so simple, is it. In the day at the weekends yes. But weekday evenings for instance DP doesn't get home on average until 7, often later and it's unpredictable. This on it's own makes anything regular like a night class for instance, impossible.
Also most of my friends have children and are in a similar boat so the chances of us synchronising free time were/are quite slim.
My closest friend lives in a nearby village, the bus service is rubbish and neither of us has a car so no visiting.
Sometimes I would go out around the shops, on my own, have a coffee, get bored and just go back home.
I always kick myself around the block for not finding out more about babysitters. I kick myself round the room for not coming up with more creative ideas. I kick myself to the moon and back for just not making enough effort.

TheConstantLurker Sat 06-Jul-13 08:51:57

Good news though! I've realized that although there is still some drudge, a huge amount goes as your children get older because you get them to do the jobs. Yay!
Can be a battle sometimes of course. Bribery is good. When your child gets to the age when MONEY is an incentive (6-7ish?) this is an excellent tactic. Want that Monster High doll you talk about incessantly- hey, tidy your room, get your £1 pocket money and repeat.
They put their own plates on the side and I am managing to train them slightly into occasionally putting them into the dishwasher too.
Bribery tidies the living room.
Shouting puts rubbish in bins, not on the floor.
Repeated instructions, in a loud insistent voice with vague threats of 'I'll count to three' gets pens and paper put back into cupboards.

Waffling now. Feel slightly hysterical and it's only 8.58
And breathe.

KingRollo Sat 06-Jul-13 08:58:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KingRollo Sat 06-Jul-13 08:59:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ledkr Sun 07-Jul-13 20:49:38

<sobs> been on a camping trip with friends and dds.
Dd2 seems unable too stop whingeing and kicking off about all manner of things. She wouldn't eat BBQ foods wanted everyone's scooter but hers and screamed loudly if didn't get her own bloody way.
We had a nice time peppered with stressfull moments where I could have literally imploded with sheer rage.
I seem to go from calm to mental in 3 seconds made worse bu having people around to judge you.
Having a shower or walking back to the pitch or anything could just trigger a meltdown of mammoth proportions which coupled with the heat and not having all your home comforts makes you feel enraged.
Packing to leave in the heat wasn't too bad but then the roof if camper wouldn't go down cue 3 hit kids strapped in car moaning and me having some sort if mini meltdown where all I could do was swear down the phone to dh.
All the way home (which of course involved a massive traffic jam) I was just dreaming of just disappearing after popping to the shops for milk and never being seen again hmm
I just want some headspace and to feel balanced for once confused good job I've got you lot xx

Meglet Sun 07-Jul-13 22:31:46

superstar another snappy and inconsistent one here too. The dc's often defeat me, they know there's 2 of them and one of me and they can rule the roost.

constantlurker Financial rewards are great when they kick in aren't they! DS sorted the clean underwear and balled up the socks for 20p today. As soon as DD starts school in Sept and is hopefully less feral then they will both have a little rota for chores for 5p-20p. I hope it works, I don't think I will be able to cope with the lack of housework for much longer. They need to muck in a tiny bit.

Badvoc Mon 08-Jul-13 07:13:22

Just need to get to the end of the week......just need to get to the end of the week....(repeat as nauseum)

Meglet Mon 08-Jul-13 07:33:13

I'm always counting to the end of the week too. I think we've got a quiet day on saturday so I just have to keep it together 'til then.

I saw the GP last week (for my pelvis / piles sad) and had to choke back the tears when she was talking to me. I figured she couldn't actually help me with my mental state, my usual GP has already refused me counselling twice.

The children are being noisy this morning and I can't bear it.

Badvoc Mon 08-Jul-13 07:42:12

Oh meg sad
Well I told my gp that if we didn't get to the bottom if my health and MH issues I would be in a psychiatric unit by next year and she laughed!
Sadly I was serious sad
Lots if things going on ATM (mum and dads tests have all come back ok thankfully) I am still waiting to see the cardiologist and have so much to do this week before we go in hols on Saturday...why do I do that btw? Book hols for the day after they break up?
I am definately not firing on all cylinders ATM sad
Saturday we did ds1s postponed b day treat at a local park and they all had a good time but running round a park in 28 degree heat doesn't nothing for my state of mind smile
Will be crying later....taking the gifts and cards for my sons pre school teachers. The pre school is closing on Friday...such a shame sad

sensesworkingovertime Mon 08-Jul-13 16:37:15

Hi * Meglet*, how old are your DCs? ( though I think the noisy stage prob last from birth to 18yrs...) I am becoming more sensitive to noise as I get older, apart from my DCs banging about and rowing I cannot stand the racket of computer games or consoles.

I was concerned when you said your GP had twice refused you counselling, on what grounds? If you ask for counselling, surely that should be enough? I was put on a waiting list by mine last week but meanwhile she has give me a long list of other counsellors, some volunteers and some private. Have you into this or could you see a different GP?

Meglet Mon 08-Jul-13 21:29:19

senses that made me laugh, the noisy stage lasting from 18 months to 18 grin. DS is 6 and DD is 4. We have a tiddly little house which really doesn't help, I can't get away from them.

Apparently they don't offer counselling at our GP surgery. They could only offer private counselling, but my (lovely!) IBS consultant said not to touch private with a barge pole, and I agree with him. What really riles me is that if I fell apart and the kids suffered they'd be wading in with parenting advice and counselling, I'd rather nip it in the bud.

badvoc Why do GP's still treat mental health issues so lightly? They have been fantastic with my IBS and must have spent a fortune on scans, investigations blush and dieticians. No problems at all! The (non-lentil weavery!) consultant said I'm too stressed out for my body to work properly and need counselling. But they would still rather throw money at my IBS, which they could possibly solve with counselling <<head desk>>. I should complain to PALs or something actually.

superstarheartbreaker Mon 08-Jul-13 21:35:21

Hi all. Hope you get the IBS sorted etc. I just wish I could relax and enjoy my georgeous 5 year old dd instead of feeling constantly irritated and resentful around her. For example. She wanted to make jam tarts today ...I went and bought some jam etc. I helped her make then but got annoyed when she didn't do it properly but tried to stay calm as the carnage of 5 year old cookery unfolded in the heat of the kitchen.
We made them. I left them to cool for a bit gave one to dd but it was still too hot and she spilled hot jam on her foot and scaled herself. sad Luckily it was not serious and was sorted with cold water and sudocrem but the carnage is ongoing. I DON't WANT TO MAKE JAM TARTS AND CLEAN UP KIDDIE MESS IN THE SEARING HEAT WHEN I RETURN FROM WORK ; I WANT TO SIT DOWN WITH A NICE GLASS OF WINE AND READ A GOOD BOOK IN THE GARDEN!

Ledkr Mon 08-Jul-13 21:47:07

superstar it's just constant isn't it?
I also feel that massive resentment and just want a bit if bloody time to myself.
Really low day today I even had a sicky from work as I just felt so exhausted from the weekend camping.
I want to do fun stuff and live a little but its so stressfull and exhausting I wonder if its worth it.
I've been feeling strongly today that they'd all be better off without me. I'm horrible to dh and snappy and irritated with the kids.
I'm on day 14 of my cycle and can't help thinking its pms starting very early.
I promised myself I'd see the dr this month if it came.

mrsibley Mon 08-Jul-13 21:58:17

ledkr I know how you feel as my hormones are fucked and I feel permanently like I'm horribly premenstrual. I think must be because my periods will start back soon as I am struggling to breast feed my 4 mo dd (feel a failure over that as well). I have days where I truly believe that everyone including my kids is better off without me, it's a horrible feeling. Am shattered tonight but if have nerve tomorrow I may post about my child care dilemma as I have nowhere in rl I'm not worried what people will think of me as they don't understand what life is really like right now.

I've had a shit day and away to try and sleep. Take care all x

Ledkr Mon 08-Jul-13 22:09:09

Thanks for replying <sobs>
I work part time and have five dc if it helps. I've always worked even when single parent and have used all manner if childcare so ill see what I think when you post xx
Tired here too but only just sat down to eat!!
Long evening as went swimming, back late quick tea and then searching for bloody fans!!
Dd woke and got up at 4.30 cos of the heat I think so I'm taking no chances.

Ledkr Mon 08-Jul-13 22:17:05

Thanks for replying <sobs>
I work part time and have five dc if it helps. I've always worked even when single parent and have used all manner if childcare so ill see what I think when you post xx
Tired here too but only just sat down to eat!!
Long evening as went swimming, back late quick tea and then searching for bloody fans!!
Dd woke and got up at 4.30 cos of the heat I think so I'm taking no chances.

Ledkr Mon 08-Jul-13 22:18:05

I'm repeating myself now!

Feelingood Tue 09-Jul-13 07:37:17

constant from v. up thread, I've been very twitchy with DH the last week or so. I am not due (as sometimes get like this) so I've been trying to put my finger on it and I just think its a few nags coming to the fore that I've kept a lid on. Ive said a couple of things last night didn't go down well, he has apologised for his angry response sad

So I've decided to actually go to the gym tonight to get away from the house. after bedtime like DH does (or when most of it is done)

ledkr you are a braver women than I. We used to go camping and another life. We took DS once, haven't bothered with DD. We have a tone of camping equipment to get rid of huge tent! I hope you are feeling a better today.

badvoc and meglet I have had intermittent IBS since mid 20's. I stopped smoking which has made it better. I no longer get extreme cramps followed by a 'visit' then feel utterly drained afterward. I think my diet is a bit better than then too. But I have noticed when I lose weight it is better probably due to diet. I know IBS can be different for everyone, hope you get somewhere with GP's. Its awful eating food wondering whether its going to 'bother' you a later.

superstar Yeah, I just don't these things unless I am in the right mood. I think I am a quite selfish mum at times. I think its great you made the tart with your DD even though you didn't want to.

Well I went to my tutorial on saturday but I ended up helping get kids ready and effectively advising where to take them. DH in all innocence and thickness (IMO) came into bathroom and said err *'i'll have to take both of them won't I?' I just laughed. Its like he suddenly realised he would have to do all this parenting in one go and needed to check. He wasn't messing when he asked like he was thinking out loud.

We then had a nice day at the pub in beer garden/play area with our friends. Fine but we ended up spending a bit.

We went to a festival for 8 hours on Sun: DH v excited (his thing) v proactive in getting kids ready, ironed clothes, got breakfast etc. he was great with the kids walked them round, took them to kids things etc. The kids behaved quite well, managed with heat and the whole thing. I OTH did not cope with heat, I burn v easily and find it most uncomfortable to sit in it. I had factor 50 on. My eye watered, then swelled up the whole day. really made and effort to enjoy it. DH was v tired by the end of the day and on the way back he said it was not a place for kids. I think he said this as he is used to doing these things on his own - he went to the one last year with his mates. (It is a v family friendly festival paddling poole, stalls etc. - quite small, ticket only most people were reading sunday papers in camping chars whilst listening to the live jazz in the back ground IYKWIM)

So whilst the kids and I enjoyed it he didn't in the end because he had to 'do a lot of running' around....now he can understand that when I say I've been somewhere with kids even of just for Costa he says 'oh must be nice' and I say well yes but its not the same as time off/away. Grrrrr

I have done a huge amount of laundry. Ive done so much in house I feel lots better it stops me from feeling like I am flailing all over the place. Just need to do DS's room and clean up stairs/stairs. Have done downstairs.

Badvoc Tue 09-Jul-13 08:08:46

Well.....I have been taking the HRT for a week tomorrow...and I dont really feel any different...apart from sore boobs but I am due on next week so could be that I guess..

mrsibley Tue 09-Jul-13 08:22:14

I'm having another very very anxious morning. I feel like i just shut my eyes last night and was immediately woken into a new day i cant face im so exhausted. Things are not good. My dp is home from work and has told me he can't carry on with the way things are between us. Neither can I, but my anxiety is so bad I am just about making it through each day I need to stop feeling like this and getting obsessed with things that don't really matter except in my head but I just can't seem to beat this.

My problems mainly manifest in a huge difficulty in making decisions. I am so terrified of making life even more difficult I become completely obsessed with the different options available to me and trying to come up with the perfect answers which of course don't even exist. It's extremely wearing for me and everyone around me as I struggle to gain control in a sea of hideous, gut wrenching, sleep stealing anxiety.

Please don't judge me if you think this is really trivial or makes me a lazy mother. I'm not at work right now as on maternity leave and don't know when and if I will return due to complications with my employment. My sons at nursery for last 2 years as I was working til had dd. Now he's at an age he would get 15 hours (5 hours a day over 3 days) free nursery anyway now whether I work or not which is great for both him and me as he loves nursery. I have unexpectedly been offered an extra 5 hours on another day in order to give me more options if I do return to work (another drawn out over analysed decision to be made there next). I would pay for these but it's not expensive so that's not really the issue. You would literally not believe the dilemma this is putting me in. I am on my own with my kids at least 2 weeks out of every month, no other forms if childcare like grandparents etc, and struggle to run my house single handedly, deal with my anxiety/ sleep problems and frankly give my daughter enough attention when my son is there. My sister who is a single parent says 100% take the extra time to give me more flexibility and breathing space and flexibility, dp says do whatever you think, but I have this massive guilt complex. Why would I have my son in child care 4 (short 5 hour) days a week when not at work, why am I not spending all that time with him and enjoying the time before he goes to school etc etc. so I think don't take the 4th day. This then plunges me into a panic about losing the day (can't get it back later) and what if I need it if I do go back to work in the next few months. Disclaimer: I KNOW HOW TRIVIAL THIS ALL SOUNDS when my mental health is shot, my relationship is really struggling, I have to get up and write a fucking essay for a training course I'm doing , and people have no child care options available and much bigger things to worry about. But my head is wrecked by anxiety, guilt, anxiety, guilt round and round and round.

Dp up with kids and I'm lying in a darkened room, shaking. I don't know how to get through another day like this. Have til Thursday to make decision, stop this nonsense and move on. I'm sorry to share all this bullshit here but I'm struggling greatly.

mrsibley Tue 09-Jul-13 08:42:27

I really really love my little boy and spending time with him. I'm just trying to figure out how to keep my options open re stuff I need to do and possible work next year and give myself a bit of breathing space whilst things at home are a struggle. Sorry if I sound like I'm trying to palm him off on nursery.

vladthedisorganised Tue 09-Jul-13 10:32:55

Good morning fellow travellers..
mrsibley it doesn't sound trivial in the slightest: it sounds like there are a lot of aspects to think about in order to make the decision, which then leads to the mind acting a bit like a computer that has too much crammed on to it. We take it for granted that computers get information overload and have to shut down for a while to get back to normal, but we don't give ourselves time to do the same!

DH got invited to another lads' weekend this weekend and it made me realise how different our social lives are. His friends assume I'll be fine with looking after DD and being bored rigid of a weekend (usually attending 'duty' things like childrens' parties or family gatherings with his nan who doesn't like me.. and making flimsy excuses for his absence), mine assume that I have no free time and have to be accompanied by DD all the time. Therefore, he gets invited for weekends away and clubbing nights; I get invited round for a coffee so the toddlers can play together. If I'm lucky.
He does often say I really ought to organise something for myself, but unlike him, my friends are all in the same position so I have nobody at all I can go out with for 'big nights out'.

What I really resent and admire in equal measure is his ability to announce that he 'doesn't do' things he doesn't enjoy. He thinks children's birthday parties are incredibly boring (correctly), so he 'doesn't do children's parties' and sends me instead. He doesn't think the family gathering is that important, so he's happy to cancel for a subsequent engagement - and send me along with DD. There's one in particular that he's now cancelled in favour of the lads' weekend which 'won't be a big deal because you'll be going anyway': I'd love to go away somewhere with DD instead, but since we've already committed to his family do it would look even worse if I cancelled because I fancied doing something else instead.

So, like a dutiful in-law I'll rock up with DD and a trifle, make polite small-talk while playing with DD and the rest of the children, and seethe with resentment thinking "why the hell did I agree to all this?"
And when they ask where DH is, I'll apologise that I made a mistake and that he had already agreed to visit his friend months ago - silly me! Not a very good PA, am I? Polite guffaw, oh vlad you are hopeless.. Sigh.

FamilyNapPlease Tue 09-Jul-13 12:29:59

mrsibley hello, I just read your first post and YES YES! Sleep deprivation so massive. And written off too easily I think when it is mothers with children who are experiencing it. Makes me so mad how undervalued mothering is angry

Okay, ducking back out now. Just wanted to respond in case I have to go and can't catch up on the rest of the posts!

FamilyNapPlease Tue 09-Jul-13 13:12:10

So many posts I want to respond to but brain so full of holes sad

Meglet am outraged your GP won't get you counselling! There you are advocating for yourself, being amazing, and they won't help. Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff no problem. That lack of constructive, timely mental health support really burns my ass.

vladthedisorganised that social scheduling crap your DH is pulling is so out of line IMO. But so so common. I have tried over the years to scale back my stepping in for DP and it feels so much better. I get less ragey about it all. I bet I get some shite for it behind my back though.

DP knows he can't expect me to do presents for his family's birthdays and christmas etc. If we have the money and I have enough energy I'm happy to do it, but reserve the right not to! It would be weird to have him buying my mum and dad and siblings presents and organising cards for them. Why then is it, in our society, normal for me to do it for him? Oh yeah, I have a vagina. Silly me.

Anyway, ramble ramble. And DP is actually fantastic - he completely agrees there is no reason I should handle those things on his behalf. I feel like he is really committed to doing things equally in a flexible negotiable kind of way. Still a lot of pressure to do so though from society. No wonder we are all exhausted.

Badvoc Tue 09-Jul-13 13:23:45

Well, dh had another argument last night...sigh.
Ds1 needs some shorts for our hols - we go on Saturday.
Got 3 pairs total price £27...he went mad.
Apparently I should be able to get clothes for a stocky 10 year old for £4-5.
He has no fucking idea, has he?
I buy from e bay and asda/tesco fgs! We don't do designer stuff!

sensesworkingovertime Tue 09-Jul-13 14:19:25

Hi all Shady Ladies....Meglet I think any GPs who don't offer a counselling service in this day and age are takin' the mick, it outrages me infact, they might aswell say "ok here's a flu jab, you might not get flu but if you feel so low you want to throw yourself off a cliff there's nowt we can do". Is there any voluntary ones maybe, have you got a local library you could ask, or if you have any religious belief..a minister?

Ledker and Mrsibley sorry to hear you feel so awful, I have felt the same at times re 'they are better off without me' it's an awful feeling but want to say to you both you know it's not the case. You sound so tired Mrsibley and you're not functioning properly. It sounds like a little 'spare' time would be great for you and your DS though re the extra nursery hours/ Pleeeeaaase don't feel guilty!

Superstar you are a superstar mum, cooking for 'entertainment' in this heat smile

Can I just go back now to what Mrsibley said few days ago about the loneliness of being a mum in this modern world? I so much want to agree with that. Ok we have mums and tots groups but apart from that it seems that anything you want to do with your DCs for company/entertainment has to cost money. Where I live it is my experience that children do not play outside, they are relentlessly ferried round from one activity to another (witnessed many a scene after swimming lessons in changing room mothers shouting at kids to get ready quick because they have got dancing, drama group, endless birthday parties etc etc) JUST LET THEM BE KIDS AND DO THEIR OWN THING SOMETIMES EVERYTHING IS SO BLOODY STRUCTURED FOR THEM. In no way am I saying that activities are bad and let them run wild but please lets get a balance! Add to this (for me) that we are surrounded by elderly neighbours whose grandchildren hardly visit, oh how I dread the school hols...

sensesworkingovertime Tue 09-Jul-13 14:22:09

When I read what your DH said it made me smile, imagine if you'd replied " nah, leave one behind to see if they can fend for themselves.."

sensesworkingovertime Tue 09-Jul-13 14:22:52

Feelingood I meant your DH!

working9while5 Tue 09-Jul-13 14:25:18

I haven't read these threads but I had/?have OCD starting in pregnancy and have had all sorts of shenanigans ever since.

Just wanted to share something for you anxious peeps:

1. Expect, allow, and accept that fear will arise.
2. When fear comes, stop, wait, and let it be.
3. Focus on and do manageable things in the present.
4. Label your level of fear from 0 to 10. Watch it go up and down.
5. Function with fear. Appreciate your achievements.
6. Expect, allow, and accept fear reappearing.

I find this works for all sorts of stuff - e.g. insert grumpiness/tiredness/loneliness. I've got a book full of these lil things, they are fab! ;)

Biscuitsareme Tue 09-Jul-13 20:00:53

Hello all! I had an unexpected half day off today. Both Dc in school/preschool, and I went for a walk in the woods with a friend. It was bliss.

Vlad re birthday parties: my DH does this angry. I am learning to not go to every single b'day party atm. This is getting easier as DC get older and have more established friendships with a smaller nr of children. As for taking time for myself/ getting roped into family dos, again, I'm learning to be unapologetically selfish on occasion and just do what I want. I see it as slowly conditioning DH to equality [sigh].

Hope you can enjoy this lovely evening, ladies flowers . I'm going outside with my book and will simply not hear it if DC get out of bed/ start crying.

Badvoc Tue 09-Jul-13 20:56:47

Well, I spent 3 hours ironing today.
In 26 degree heat.
So I am in a lovely mood smile
Dh is upstairs trying to get ds2 to sleep.
He is still fighting it. I will not go up. I will not go up.

Ledkr Tue 09-Jul-13 22:36:25

Well I lasted all day with no outbursts but then just now dd1 kept insisting she had given me a note to sign for school. I told her she hadn't but she just went on and on at me saying I had it. I knew I didn't so kept saying she hasn't given it to me. Eventually lost my rag and shouted really loud at her do she stomped off crying, I look in her bag and low and behold there it is.
It set me off because the house is a real mess at the moment largely because her and dh never put anything away. Dh has had dd all day while I was at work, she had nursery 9-12 then a sleep but he has literally done nothing!
Zilch zero nothing. I have never seen such a mess.
I tried to keep quiet about it but just lost it and told him he's a lazy bastard.
It pisses me off that life is stressful enough without other members if the family not pulling their weight.
Dd literally leaves everything everywhere angry

Badvoc Wed 10-Jul-13 06:25:19

Ah. Yes. I can relate.
I am a woman in a house with 3 males.
My mornings - every morning - begin with me going to the bathroom and WC to turn taps off that have been left running and flush toilets that haven't.
It's a great way to start my day not
Today I ahem yet more ironing to do (did 3 hours yesterday in 28 degree heat) in readiness for our hols on Saturday - which I found and booked.
I have also been to the shops and bought the hol supplies (sun screen, sun hats for the kids etc), sorted the repeat prescriptions out (all 3 have asthma and ds2 has bad hay fever ATM) done an online grocery order for when we arrive at our destination, written a packing list, sorted a non fresh food box, got all the gifts etc for last week at school.....you get the picture.
Dh - on the mornings of the hol - will pack up the car with the suitcases I have packed and off we will go.
It's infuriating.

Ledkr Wed 10-Jul-13 07:41:19

badvoc same here too. I book it all make all the necessary arrangements at home, get currency, pack up for me and dds he packs a small bag and all the camping stuff (we have a camper van) but I make sure we have meds, toiletries, cooking stuff etc.
I'm definitely grumpy but would be less so if people just picked up after themselves. Dd literally leaves everything where it falls, clothes, hair stuff , school bag book etc, dh is halfway through a couple of DIY projects so stuff all over the place, he also dumps his bag in the utility room but also pokes of clothes etc. he's usually pretty good tbh but yesterday was a joke. He literally had t lifted a finger despite dd being at nursery and having a nap. I was working involving catchin two hot buses.
No wonder they find the chikdren easier than we do.

Ledkr Wed 10-Jul-13 07:43:15

Btw I have three grown boys and was a single parent, I actually find the personal junk worse now than with them shock

Badvoc Wed 10-Jul-13 07:47:04

I am teaching my boys to put their dirty clothes in the laundry bins....it's sort of working.
I don't think men see jobs to be done sometimes....I will ask dh to Hoover sometimes as I have a herniated disc in my back and he just looks at me blankly..."does it really need doing again?"
Erm, yes dh it's been over a week since it was last done!

Ray81 Wed 10-Jul-13 09:21:16

Hi everyone, haven't posted for a while but have been lurking.

I can relate re nobody else doing anything EVER. DD1 is 11 and at that age where yes things get left where they fall, I do however call her and tell her to pick it up and put it away, I feel terribly guilty at the moment as all I seem to do is moan at her ALL the time and I don't get to spend any quality time with her at all.

DH has turned into a lazy arse since I I dont go out to work, he seems to think because I don't work I have to do everything in the house.I got up this morning and went to put something in the bin and its full to the brim. How many times do I have to tell him that I can't empty it and carrying it round the side of the house to the front as the kids follow and it's a death trap down the side of the house so he needs to empty the bins. Does he do it, NO. I've had to empty the bin and the bag is sat in the garden, in this heat, and I keep having to chase the cat off as she rips the bag and gets rubbish all over the garden when the kids need to play out there. Why can't he just empty the fucking bin !!!!!
Then there's his tie, left on the side in the kitchen, and his clothes on the bedroom floor etc etc.
Things aren't great with us at the moment and I am seriously paranoid, he seems to be distant with me and to not respect me at all
, he only ever comes near me or is affectionate when he wants sex. He has form I'm afraid, when I was pg with DD2 found a lot of evidence re cyber sex, chatting to other women online, it shattered my trust in him and I'm not sure is I will ever get it back 100% tbhso when he pulls away I start to worry there are other things going on. He's been going out a lot lately as he started a new job in march and they have been doing lots of 'team' things, when he was in his old job he wasn't interested in 'team' building so I don't know where the sudden interest has come from.
I am probably being paranoid I occasionally check his laptop history and his phones on a contract and I deal with all that so see bills and there's nothing to suggest he's done anything wrong ifkwim but its still there in my head. I think I may need help to work through what happened before but we are broke and cannot afford for me to get counselling.

Sorry for epic post I really must now go and see what DCs are doing. Sounds like trashing the place oh the joys.

Thanks for reading .

curryeater Wed 10-Jul-13 09:35:01

Hello all
Feeling all your great posts

Sorry if this post is insensitive to the SAHMs but I had a great moment at work yesterday - a minor but brilliantly satisfying rebellion - and I just wanted to share. I have a new boss, he is stressing me out. I had a day out at meetings with 3 other people who are not my boss and I know them pretty well so was feeling quite liberated as a change from the tension of trying to be positive and upbeat while in the office (hard for a million reasons right now but my new boss is that kind of "don't bring me problems" guy).
After the long, hot, standy-about outdoor part of the meeting was finished, our hosts said goodbye and kindly invited us to spend the remaining 90 minutes before our train exploring the rest of their site. We politely agreed, our hosts left, and then to my horror I realised that we were expected to spend the time on foot (in business shoes, carrying very heavy bags of files) doing activities for 10 year olds (haring about in mazes, solving banal yet pointlessly difficult puzzles, while being patronised by occasional over-loud TV screens giving us keen and earnest repetitive instructions) - the sort of thing I HATED as a ten year old anyway but as an adult would die rather than do. One of my keen team members was beetling off in her headgirl way to do all this, and the others seemed to feel that it was the thing to do, and I just stopped and said "No. This is not work, this is not fun. I do not have to do this and I am not going to. I am going to find a table in the shade and a cup of tea, and do some emails." I stomped off, expecting to be alone, and found that everyone joined me. With relief.

One of the reasons I had so little energy was that the person at the site looking after us was visibly pregnant and exhausted and I did not feel able to ask her for water as I felt she was dashing about too much already.

It was great to just fuck that activity off. I was thinking: If I had this much physical energy, I should spend it on my children. I also said: the way my energy levels are now, it would make more sense for my personal resources to stand on a bridge crumpling up £50 notes and throwing them in a river.

DP is shattered and has a nasty cold. He has been sleeping 3 hours a night because he took off so much time to move house now he has horrific deadlines. the girls are really getting him down. When one of them is ok the other is being horrific. I feel guilty for being out such long days he bears the brunt of all this. I still do more of the organising etc but I know they run him ragged and it is not the sitch that ledkr describes where they have been napping and he has been reading the paper. Oh yes we have had all that but things have changed. Because I can't do things when I am not physically there.

curryeater Wed 10-Jul-13 09:45:23

Sorry crossposted with Ray81
ARGH that rubbish thing sounds so annoying.
Have you talked to your dh about your worries?
People do behave differently in new jobs, you can be very jaded at the old place and have no interest in spending an extra moment with them and then feel you have to be all bright-eyed and jolly in the new job. But you should get that reassurance from him if you need it - and he should be doing stuff at home that you need him to do.

Feelingood Wed 10-Jul-13 09:57:43

I am livid this am. I just think I've handled DS all so very wrong:

I hate the shower...refusal..tantrum..

Lots of shouting from me
Me getting him washed
Me saying i might go and live in a hotel

I feel like walking out.

Feelingood Wed 10-Jul-13 10:05:32

curryeater yey for the small victories eh?! My version of that was not 'doing' the school fayre last week. grin

ray21 much of your stuff re DH worrying what if anything he is doing/not doing resonates with me. I spent months of this, it is exhausting, mentally crippling to be in a constant state of alert and mistrust. I hope you can find a way forward. I am here if you want to ask any questions. But for now I found this helped me - You can't control people but you can control how you respond.

Ray81 Wed 10-Jul-13 10:38:15

Curryeater and Feelinggood I haven't spoken to him about my concerns as of yet, the thing Is when I do he makes me feel so stupid ifkwim, it's hard to explain but after it all happened and DD2 was a few months old he started giving a girl from work a lift in. He had to go completely out of his way to pick her up and drop her back home, he told me she was short and big basically and they didn't really talk (yeah right).
I then got a job at the same place and she was very tall, slim and blond and pretty, she completely blanked me which I thought was odd. I was told by others there they had regularly gone to lunch together before I started working there and stopped when I started ifkwim. I worked PT and strangely enough on the days I worked she wouldn't get a lift and the days I didn't she did.
Anyway I was very paranoid , no evidence that anything went on at all but we had a talk about it and he made me feel like I was a little bit crazy, he did stop giving her a lift to work and was adamant nothing went on and they weren't even 'friends' really. BUT I know in my gut that there was something more, I'm not sure what exactly be it flirting or EA I just cannot prove it.
The online thing was cyber sex and porn on one hand and then he was basically having an EA with another woman on a different site, he hit me VERY hard. I thought I was his world and I I thought he loved me so much, if I had had to say before it happened I would have said he loved me more then I loved him ifkwim, I honestly believed he would never hurt me and I beat myself up all the time for letting myself trust him that much.
DD2 Is 3 and I've been feeling like this for 3 yrs DS is 16 months, I need to do something to help myself but I don't know what or how. This is probably going to sound worse then it is and I think it is entirely my issue but when we do have sex at the moment I almost feel like he is more concerned for what he's getting out of it and I tend to 'switch off ' in the middle of it, this is awful and I'm crying now because I also know this has a lot to do with sexual abuse I suffered as a child do its almost a default setting but I need to do something to change it and I know I need to speak to him but I don't know how to start that conversation.
Oh god I am so fucked up right now my brain feels like it might explode !

Badvoc Wed 10-Jul-13 11:08:12

On ray sad
Perhaps you should be posting in relationships?
Some great women on there with some amazing insights x

Ray81 Wed 10-Jul-13 11:50:58

Badvoc - I would rather not tbh as I think I would get told to LTB and that's not going to happen.
It's nice to be able to vent on here and not get that ifkwim, just the venting takes a weight off.

Badvoc Wed 10-Jul-13 11:54:05

But venting won't stop him having EAs sad

Badvoc Wed 10-Jul-13 11:56:11

Sorry, didn't mean to sound harsh.

bigkidsdidit Wed 10-Jul-13 12:29:13

Hello everyone

I posted on the first thread then lost touch when I gave birth again. DS2 is now 2.5 weeks and great, healthy and alert and can self soothe shock . The birth was great too, 9-10 and back to back and I managed it fine which I am really proud of myself fr and which has laid to rest some ghosts from DS1's birth.

However feeding is a nightmare. He had a severe tongue tie which was snipped at 2 weeks by which time my nipples were ripped and bleeding, deep cracks in each, I'm in agony every feed (trying not to scream agony). Snipping the tie hasn't improved much I guess because of the damage. Then this weekend I got fucking mastitis.

I started topping up and expressing evey feed but all that means is I can't ever leave the house and I can't do anything else.

I think realistically the time has come to give up and ff. I am really struggling with it, I fed DS1 easily and thougt it woul be the same again. I didn't realise how much mothering self esteem I took from that. I feel like I've failed DS2 and failed my most fundamental role as a mother. I feel like for the first time in my life I've not done what is expected of me and can't cope with disapproval from HCP etc. I feel too ashamed to ff in public sad

I can't stop crying. DH is worried about me. I'm a mess sad

Badvoc Wed 10-Jul-13 12:32:30

You know what?
The fact they weren't bf will not appear on your child's cv smile
Neither will you ever get asked about it again once your child is 18 months plus.
I ff both mine after horrendous bf issues and it was the best thing I could have done, both for my own MH and my children's health.
So, take it easy in yourself xxxx

Biscuitsareme Wed 10-Jul-13 13:14:54

Good afternoon ladies! Seconding Badvoc, take it easy on yourself all of you.

Ray81 sad Him making you feel stupid when you want to talk about a very relevant worry is not good! If I were you I would trust my instincts and focus on looking after ME. What are your plans wrt work? Would you go back when DC3 is a little older? Perhaps then's the time to re-evaluate your relationship and gain some clarity. You deserve to feel valued, we all do!


Ray81 Wed 10-Jul-13 13:44:17

Badvoc - that's ok you didn't sound harsh and make perfect sense, I just can't deal with all the inevitable LTB that I would get if I posted this there.

As far as I am aware since the girl from work which I am classing as an EA there hasn't been anything else that was almost 2 yrs ago now, I'm just very paranoid. Wrt the Internet stuff I he admitted it all and was sorry etc etc i just need to let go of it and am finding it very hard to do that, and I do believe it is my issue.
The only thing at the moment is going out with work and being distant and I will speak to him about that, it could just be him fitting in etc and in my paranoid state I am reading to much into it.

Buscuitsareme - I really would like to go back to work and have been looking but there really isn't much out there, me and DH are in the same field although he is manager and I'm not so could get a job at his place but then it's child care etc, I would like to work evenings as that would be better all round and will carry on looking until I find something.

I know that him making me feel stupid is a big red flag and because of this I tend not to talk about how I feel that much about the EA stuff , I really really hate confrontation and arguments and we do in fact hardly ever argue because I'm just not like that, I will swallow it down and again I know this isn't healthy in anyway. He really isn't all bad I make him sound awful when he isn't really, other then the EA stuff he's a good dad and before when I worked he used to share the housework etc, if I told him I was feeling sad/upset/angry about other things he's very supportive but the EA stuff he gets defensive which again worries me.

Sorry for the mammoth posts guys I helps to just write it all down.

vladthedisorganised Wed 10-Jul-13 14:58:22

rayI hope you're finding that this helps. Not sure there's a lot I can say to help but it must be crap for you.
I think all our DPs are less than perfect in some areas - DH is fantastic with DD and pretty good around the house, but socially he can be a selfish arse at times. Even my MIL has come close to telling me to LTB when he's been out hitting the town with his mates acting like a 21-year-old and I'm at the family gathering - again - with DD, but it isn't the whole picture.

bigkids I went through this when DD was small. I hated every second of breastfeeding. I hated being told I wasn't doing it right, I hated being told it was a wonderful thing to do and I was some sort of monster for even thinking I might give up. I hated the pain, I hated the mess, I hated the nursing bras. And once she was 4 months old, I gave up.
It was great. My back didn't hurt, my chest wasn't disproportionate any more, I could wear what I wanted and could even hand the bottle to pretty much anyone if I wanted to do something wild and reckless like go to the loo if DD was hungry. HCPs were aghast as DD had been 'thriving', and I had a lot of lectures.

And do you know what? She was fine. I was fine. Never felt half as self-conscious FF in public as I had done with everyone telling me I was 'doing the best thing for Baby, and that must make you feel wonderful'. Realising that DD honestly didn't care was a far more wonderful feeling.

Badvoc Wed 10-Jul-13 15:14:47

"Less than perfect" yes, that describes dh very well! smile
And me too, of course.
And most people come to think of it, but not all of them have someone running round doing everything !!

bigkidsdidit Wed 10-Jul-13 15:38:44

Thank you both smile I am trying to perk up. Not being on pain any more will be wonderful. I had a shower earlier and the water touching my nipples made me scream. It will be nice not to have that.

Badvoc Wed 10-Jul-13 15:41:03

Oooohhhh <shudder> god, I remember that feeling sad
Heal yourself, feed your baby and make sure your dh is looking after you!
Lots of ready meals if necessary, lots of take aways of necessary.
Let your housekeeping standards slip.
After a few weeks it will get better.
Normal service will resume.
But I know it doesn't feel that way now.

Ledkr Wed 10-Jul-13 20:03:43

ray I feel like that with dd. I adore her and she's lovely but soooo lazy and I'm ill and tired with the 2yr old but do feel as if I nag constantly.
Btw my ex had a full blown affair when dd was 8 months and one of the reasons for ending it was that I'd be paranoid and suspicious.
It sounds as if your self esteem isn't the greatest at the moment so maybe it all feels worse than it is.
In my opinion though if a person is caught out being dishonest then they need to be aware of being more reassuring and committed to the person whom they have made feel insecure.
curry that sounds amazing. I felt similar yesterday when we were told that our manager has decided that from now on we will get time and a third for Sundays and not double time that we've always had. I assertively told her that I'd not be working Sundays in future.
It's not like me and she was a bit hmm

Ledkr Wed 10-Jul-13 20:07:58

big dd2 was born with a cleft palate so couldn't feed her.
Still racked with guilt though hmm we place so much emphasis on getting it perfect when perfect doesn't exist apart from simply being happy and doing the best we can.
Be kind to yourself I took two yrs to come out if pnd and it was awful. It's massively early days for you.
In no other area of life are we expected to have such a massive often traumatic event and then take care of a baby afterwards. Rest and recuperate, you will never get these days back.

FamilyNapPlease Thu 11-Jul-13 06:57:08

Arghhh!!!! Has anyone had a toddler who thought it was fun 'rushing them' and headbutting and hitting? ds seemed to be much happier and calmer lately (thank God) but now has great fun running at me full tilt and bashing his head into me. If I'm sitting, kneeling, standing, at the oven, doing whatever.

Have told him repeatedly no, removed him, removed myself, blah blah. He follows me! It is driving me fucking nuts and makes me SO angry and I struggle to remain calm and not react. I just want to hit him back arrrgghh! Once he starts it's really hard to redirect or distract him. Sure it's an attention thing but he gets loads of attention!

Please let this just be a short lived phase. It is like living with a small bull.

Still, let it be said that I prefer him acting up and happy rather than the previous constant grizzles and tantrums. Over time that just did my head in.

FamilyNapPlease Thu 11-Jul-13 07:07:05

oh bigkidsdidit I relate to your pain, bf HURT LIKE HELL for so long. We kept going as ds didn't like bottles (I bought every bottle on the market I think) until he was nearly a year old. By then bf was fine. But my god. It is pain like no other, you have my sympathies sad

Stripedmum Thu 11-Jul-13 16:13:53

What's been going on here then? I've been away.

I'm counting down the minutes until DH is home.

Is it weird that when he gets home I just want to be alone and not touched by anyone?

Stripedmum Thu 11-Jul-13 16:15:55

Familynap - my 26mo toddler just repeatedly jumps on me and I feel much the same way. Esp as BFing the baby and my boobs are sensitive.

Badvoc Thu 11-Jul-13 18:44:58

I used to feel exactly the same striped mum.
Ds1 would not sleep unless being held or walked in his pram so after 5 hours sat on a sofa with him once dh came home just wanted to have a bath and not touch anyone else for the rest of the day.
I used to describe it as being "touched out" and I still get like it now if the dc are ill/over clingy.

Stripedmum Thu 11-Jul-13 20:24:25

Badvoc that's exactly the feeling! Touched out.

Tonight I handed over baby and toddler to DH, grabbed a Magnum and ran upstairs and hid under the covers eating it grin

Anyone else's toddler very annoying? God it's obviously a given we adore him but Jesus. From the moment he wakes up it's whine, moan, fight, battle, punch, writhe...I enjoy the odd moment with him but its hard going at the min. Is that awful?

Badvoc Thu 11-Jul-13 20:32:17

No it's not awful it's honest.
And in the spirit of such honesty I will admit that I hated my ds1s babyhood sad
He was such a poorly baby and I was so clueless. It was just horrendous.
And that makes me so sad.
I have no happy memories til he was at least 10 months old sad
However....he is now 10 (how did that happen!) and he the most wonderful, sweet kind boy. I am so proud of him. They don't stay babies/toddlers for long - even though it seems like it's interminable at the time smile
I am sat MN ing and sipping a shandy smile
And - eventually - I won't feel guilty about it.

Stripedmum Thu 11-Jul-13 21:25:34

I feel that life trundled along quite happily, nicely, thought it was stressful (it wasn't) and then WHAM: children.

I didn't 'believe' in people staying of work due to 'stress related illness' in my 20s. Oh by golly gosh I do now.

Enjoy shandy Badvoc.

My DS is 26mo and happy memories are obliterated by horrendous postnatal anxiety. I love the bones of him but the anxiety robbed me of baby memories. I'm enjoying DD's babyhood a hell of a lot more but it still hurts a lot to think of DS's baby days.

Badvoc Thu 11-Jul-13 21:30:04

I totally get that.
It's hard to explain the crippling anxiety isn't it?
I used to look at other mothers and they all seemed to find it so easy, so natural.
And I really didn't.

Badvoc Thu 11-Jul-13 21:31:07

...I was dx with late onset pnd with ds1 when he was 15 months old.
I guess you can only get away with not eating and 2 hours broken sleep a Night for so long....

curryeater Thu 11-Jul-13 21:39:10

I loved dd1 instantly, I never had that "who is this child?" pnd feeling that some people describe, but I didn't actually enjoy much until her first birthday party, when I invited a bunch of people over and it was a sunny day and I had a few drinks and dd1 was having a laugh and being good fun (and by then had a good sleep pattern established and I had been back at work a while) and suddenly I looked around and thought, "Gosh! I am actually having a good time! Real, if mild, enjoyment! Not gritted teeth feeling "if it stays like this for 5 more minutes before something goes tits up I can bear today", or a studied bludgeoning insistence on some sort of bright side, repeating in my head like a mantra "at least it is not raining" or similar - but actual natural unforced enjoyment!" It was amazing, and after dd2 came along and I was thrown back into the full babyness, I reminded myself of it often in the spirit of "this too shall pass"

Stripedmum Thu 11-Jul-13 21:44:29

Curryeater "this too shall pass" needs tattooing somewhere on my person.

I still suffer badly from anxiety (although not the calling DH home from work repeatedly hellhole of DS1) and my coping mechanism is to 'scale' the anxiety 0-10. By doing this I know that it does wax and wane and life's not all that bad.

curryeater Thu 11-Jul-13 21:57:18

good plan stripedmum, I will remember that one, thanks

DogsAreEasierThanChildren Fri 12-Jul-13 09:50:41

Checking in here. I've been away for work for a few days, at a notoriously stressful event that involves working from 8 in the morning till 11 at night. I actually felt better and less shattered than usual because I was away from home, DS wasn't with me and all I had to do was focus on work. I really am a bad mother - I should never have had him, I should have let DH find someone who would have been good at this stuff.

Now reunited with DH and DS and we're visiting my family, which is a whole extra level of stress.

Vlad, the thread has moved on since you posted, but you need to stop lying for your DH. It's up to him how he deals with having bumped a family party for something more interesting, but you shouldn't cover it up - it sounds as though he gets to be a selfish git and get away with putting all the blame on you, which is so wrong I don't know where to start.

Ledkr Fri 12-Jul-13 18:00:36

Dh is late home. Have to get dd1 to her play and dd2 slept too late so will be up late I bet.
The last few weeks have been so busy and stressful that I think when they break up and some if the car issues are solved then it will feel really calm and easy.
I've been feeling fairly good since meltdown on Monday I'm hoping its all the supplements working but I also do better in nice weather.
Not putting to much pressure in myself over the weekend like I normally do as dh is working and dd1 needs a rest.
Hope you are all bearing up and having a Friday wine

thismousebites Fri 12-Jul-13 19:51:22

Is there a link to this thread PT 1?

Ledkr Fri 12-Jul-13 20:01:10

Ill look.

Ledkr Fri 12-Jul-13 20:03:51
thismousebites Fri 12-Jul-13 20:04:29

Thanks x

Feelingood Sat 13-Jul-13 08:18:09


Just checking in.
Overall had a good week as we've been out and enjoyed sun in various places.

Still had a meltdown re DS(7) being obstructive and being up very late - Is anyone else's children struggling to sleep re hot weather? So we now have a set of rule not he back of his bedroom door. DH was fantastic about this.

I have not had anytime to myself but have a night out tonight (yet!) which is the first in ages. Still have a simmering resentment re DH adult time as I have not managed to find time to do any studying - I think he twigged a little after last week as he invited DD and I out to lunch. It was very nice and really appreciated the gesture.

Out with DS this am, just us two so should be ok as he is less whiney when DD not there.

Hope everyone is able to rest a little as I know a few of you count down to weekends when DP/DH's are about.

bigkidsdidit Sat 13-Jul-13 19:27:25

Hi everyone

I have been thinking about the giving up bf thing. I think I am mostly upset not because of the breastmilk - at least he had 2 weeks and got his antibodies - but because I am not doing what good middle class women do. For the first time ever I am not doing what is expected of me. I don't like it! I am a bit embarrassed by how much this has upset me.

We're getting on much better here, DS is happier on bottles now he's not screaming and failing to latch on, I'm not on pain and DH did all last night while I had a whole night's sleep smile

Ledkr Sat 13-Jul-13 21:32:14

Don't feel guilty. I've had five and failed to feed them for long. I'm not good at it either small tits and too much milk means a bad latch.
I just bottle fed the last two cis I'd had a mastectomy so it was guilt free and very enjoyable.
Glad you are seeing some benefits.

DogsAreEasierThanChildren Sun 14-Jul-13 11:06:10

I agree, don't feel guilty. I absolutely hated breastfeeding and if I had my time again I would have at least mixed fed from the start - as things were I got a bottle refuser and couldn't completely give up till he was over a year old, which probably did much more harm to our relationship than FF-ing from the start could possibly have done. In a first world country the differences are marginal and statistical: no--one will be able to tell by the time your DS is 18 months old whether he was BF or FF.

Stripedmum Sun 14-Jul-13 15:30:56

I understand where you're coming from. Luckily it's worked out for me but I can very much sympathise with 'not measuring up'. I wouldn't have liked it one bit. However I would have liked to enjoy my babies without PND so I don't think anyone gets an easy ride. Take comfort in that. smile

Meglet Sun 14-Jul-13 20:49:29

Just checking in. Had an ok weekend, got some sunshine but the dc's were hyper <<sigh>>. One more week of school runs then it calms down a bit.

piffpoff Mon 15-Jul-13 10:04:51

How have I missed this thread?? I was up last night feeling shit worrying about how I have fucked up my DS's lives when someone linked this thread from another one.
I sat up until 3:30 AM reading it ( feeling a bit tired today) I remember sooo well the relentless grind of the toddler years and can only imagine what it's like having toddler twins, I think that may have well and truly sent me over the edge.
I am finding the summer holidays hard so far, yesterday shouted at DS1 who is 12 as I very nearly got him out of the house to play badminton (not that I really felt like it myself) when he started making excuses not to go. He would sit in front of a screen all day and sometimes its really difficult to find the energy to get him to do something else.
We both ended up in tears and then I ended up over compensating by bringing in McDonalds for tea to try and make up for my horrible mood yesterday.
DH and I decided to separate a couple of weeks ago, DC don't know yet, STBXH has said often that having DC killed our relationship. By that he means lack of sex for him. Certainly much less than he would have liked Like many of you I felt 'over touched' and often sex felt like just another demand made on my time at the end of a long day. We never did get back into it after years of resentment on both sides.
DH has been working abroad for the past 18 months so not worried about how I'll cope but now have another thing to fell guilty about in relation to the DC, who despite having us as their parents have turned out to be great boys.

Feelingood Mon 15-Jul-13 15:20:17

failed to feed - HEY you did feed them, they are still alive aren't they?! Please don't feel guilty. BF is body hard, we havnt got all the 'women folk' around us from yesteryear and there are generations that have not fed since the 1950's. My DM wouldn't have a clue and didn't now why I ws talking about at times.

I stopped at 5 and 6 weeks. They are both thriving. Once you get to weening your little one it will be a distant memory anyway as a whole new level of fuss and worry starts! smile

I don't think I'm very liking of children generally. Someones child kept coming t speak to me yesterday in a play area while I sat and watched mine. I feel like telling him to go away! I mean thats awful isn't it, but I had just got mine occupied and whilst I wasn't in an adult area they were away from me not crying whining so last thing I want is some other snotty kid (he was very snotty) whose mother had left him in there and told him not to come out.

Also I think i live next to Mrs Cbeebies - the oos and ahhs of back garden playing with her toddler would rival a disney show. I mean I talk to mine and play with them but she does it with bloody bells on and then I think should I be doing more stuff like that with my toddler. God they always out there, no peace.

Meglet Mon 15-Jul-13 22:57:24

feeling the funny thing is other kids do like me and I love chatting to them. It's my own dc's who give me the metaphorical 'two fingers' whenever I talk to them or need them to do anything.

We have a happy loud 'Disney' parent in DD's year next year. I fear she will tip me over the edge.

I think I'm constantly being torn between finding spending time with the dc's too stressful, then when I'm away from them and chill out a bit I start to choke up that I can't cope with them but I still miss them confused. We're off to Cornwall next month (with family so I can rest and get out for runs) I hope the holiday and them both being at school come sept will see a fresh start for us.

At least it's sunny, it's probably the only reason I'm not a whimpering wreck on the sofa.

curryeater Tue 16-Jul-13 09:42:32

Feelingood, your post really made me laugh.
I don't want other kids round me either. A visitor came in to the office, with his two-year old, and walked around the place loudly and delightedly commenting on the child's perfectly normal but slightly annoying behaviour. This guy is in show biz so the whole thing took place at 150 DB and it was driving me nuts. I really wanted to ask him to just sit in reception and wait for his goddamned meeting instead of walking around like he owns the place (it is a long association so he is one of those "HA HA DON'T MIND ME I'LL JUST CROSS THE VISITOR LINE AND GET ALL UP IN YOUR FACE WHILE MAKING OUT THIS BEHAVIOUR IS JUST BEING FRIENDLY, WHILE ACTUALLY I AM TAKING UP LOADS OF PEOPLE'S TIME BY TURNING UP EARLY FOR A MEETING AND EXPECTING TO BE ENTERTAINED")

If I had the resources to be nice to children I would use them on my own children.

In fact, now I type that I realise that he was evincing all the behaviour that is annoying in small children: not letting you get on with things; making you feel an utter git for not wanting to be all fascinated with them; acting like they are naturally your prime concern; not allowing petty things like arranged times to dictate whether they get your attention or not.

Hi Meglet, I know what you mean about being torn. It blows my mind. I hope you have a good time in Cornwall.

YoniBottsBumgina Tue 16-Jul-13 09:54:43

I am working my way through thread one. So many feelings. I am still struggling to find my own words at the moment so I will lurk quietly at the back offering tea.

Thank you all immensely for being so brave and honest. Thank god I am not the only one.

mrsibley Tue 16-Jul-13 10:14:59

Do any of you wake up in the morning and feel a wave of anxiety at the sheer RESPONSIBILITY of bringing up kids?

Feelingood Tue 16-Jul-13 10:24:44

yoni hello just jump in and get it off your chest when you are ready.

mrs Ribley omg yes - I'm thinking right...er right constantly in my head as my head darts and swivels like a meercat looking around for stuff, right...er right what do I need for today, have I got everything ready...DS in particular has lots of events etc as its end of term and it seems like he needs something different to the norm everyday. Today he just took his book bag and I kept looking at him thinking we had forgot something.

I am currently studying a child development module and think i am grossly fucking them up all the time. What I read and understand in the literature is not reflected in my own parenting - its a nightmare for a constant worrier like myself. But I stop myself and just try to make tweaks every nw and then.

At the minute I am stressing I am not taking my toddler DD out enough. How many playgroups is enough or other craft/reading stuff just how much should I do with them?

I love cornwall, I'm trying to find a caravan for under £200 just for three nights end of July hoping to get deals.

curryeater Tue 16-Jul-13 11:42:05

Hi yoni!
mrsribley, yes, totally. when I am asleep I am someone else, just me, and when I wake up I am OMG I AM A MOTHER.
Feelingood, please can you recommend me something to read on child development? Something a lay person can understand about early years and primary school children? Anything you like and find interesting that is not written by Oliver Cocking James.

Feelingood Tue 16-Jul-13 13:10:25

curryeater were you just dying to do jazz hands right in his face and steel his attention!

Well thing is my child development stuff is all psychology and is various bits of research that form chapters in degree texts. Occasionally read full research papers. So I can't recommend anything really - I will check further reading references and post accordingly. I studied attachment theory a couple of months ago and I'm convinced I'm passing only low self esteem issues and insecurities to my son but he seems healthy and happy enough.

Feelingood Tue 16-Jul-13 13:15:30

As I sit and breath the loud parenting person has just made a right disney dogs dinner of getting child into car, surely she must be over stimulated.

Sorry I'm going on about this but it helps to vent. All the house int he street have children just either side of school age and I never hear any such sing song commentaries from them. <withered and scathing frown>

Ledkr Tue 16-Jul-13 18:28:12

I've found a moment to post as I'm finding this heat so difficult with the dds.
I normally love it but with their demands and a constantly messy house as I'm too hot to do anything it's too much.
Dd1 is overtired and argues and cries about anything that isn't what she wants.
Dd2 is currently wearing a thick sweatshirt she got off the airer and kicked off when u tried to stop her wearing it.
I'm really fed up,hot and tired.

Feelingood Tue 16-Jul-13 18:37:40

Same here with DS (7)

He is not sleeping at night and being a little pain. He was still rattling about at 1130 last night. Constantly at the toilet/getting water.

I have let him have my iPad to just keep him still and quiet, even downloaded new games. DD is in trot of tv but least we've been to playgroup and shops today.

Im really irritated by the neighbours its so ott. Ive started a thread in chat just to vent. Im sat here waiting for them to go in and do bath-time so I can open my doors again.

<puts a tray of wine spritzers out for heat bedraggled keeping git real MNetters>

bigkidsdidit Tue 16-Jul-13 19:29:09

I'm still giggling at 'Oliver cocking James' grin

Struggling today, I cannot work out logistics of bathing a newborn and a 2yo and getting them ready fr bed together. It is beyond my organisational skills! And to think I have a phd confused

Feelingood Tue 16-Jul-13 20:39:29

bigs bath them every other day alternating my ds is 7 he showers am then some nights if she is dirty i bath ddwink

KingRollo Tue 16-Jul-13 21:10:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ledkr Tue 16-Jul-13 21:21:08

Where are you rollo my ds is a trained chef and looking for a new job.

Meglet Tue 16-Jul-13 21:41:43

mrsibley yes, every day. Part dread, part stress.

curry 'Oliver cocking James' will amuse me for a long time to come.

feelingood There are a handful of loud parents who do my head in. One of them is in DD's class in Sept, I'll be watching her like a hawk. My neighbours are a bit too happy for my liking too, they only speak to their 2yo in sing-song voices. They do my head in too grin. One day I'll bellow over the fence "FORTHELOVEOFGODTALKTOHIMINANORMALVOICE!" . Maybe all these loud parents are on happy pills. Maybe I need some happy pills hmm. (I probably need sleep, some gym sessions and children who acknowledge me when I speak to them).

Feelingood Tue 16-Jul-13 23:29:59

Pondering happy pills

vladthedisorganised Wed 17-Jul-13 10:22:35

Meglet, feelinggood loud parents drive me insane too; it's why I gave up on playgroups. I just can't maintain that level of enthusiasm for anything, especially in this heat.
"OOH Taggie-Marie, look at your lovely CRAFT! You do like CRAFT, don't you and you're ever so good at CRAFT! What lovely CRAFT! Look at Taggie-Marie's CRAFT, everybody!" It's a single sticker on a bit of cardboard, and you don't have to keep shouting the word CRAFT. (What is 'craft', by the way? I haven't yet worked this out and DD is three)

I quite like a peaceful mutual sketch with DD, but her attention span is about 30 seconds so it never lasts. She has a habit of not finishing anything either so when I decide to be a Proactive Parent and bring out something other than the TV (which she would watch for ever if I let her), it usually ends up with a single splodge of paint on a bit of paper and an 'I'm finished! Can I watch TV?' <sigh>

Curryeater I completely agree with you on Oliver cocking James - I actually found a more annoying book in The Idle Parent recently. It started with such promise and ended up being some statement that there's something Deeply Damaged about you and your children if building a den in the woods isn't the most fun thing you can imagine. (Have actually tried this with DD. She wasn't interested to begin with, and ran off to find an ice cream van within a minute. End of venture.)

Feelingood Wed 17-Jul-13 10:46:33

Can some one up date me re Oliver cocking James?

I err havtn read any parenting books as such just looked stuff up on google blush

curryeater Wed 17-Jul-13 11:32:56

Oliver Cocking James comes from a kind of good place in that he wants everyone to be happy, and believes that we have it in our power to affect outcomes by behaviour rather than being at the mercy of genes.

That bit I like but rather than supporting a radical political movement which would limit the power of capitalism and partriarchy to fuck us all up, make us poor, tired and lacking in personal and material resources, and then flog us pills to "remedy" the damage; he looks to individuals to make up impossible shortfalls, particularly mothers, and to work against a system that works against them to do the impossible.

He is bland, complacent, and stealth-judgey in a way that shows no regard for the pressures that real people struggle under, and he makes me want to throw things across rooms.


Special Needs denier. Apparently no one needs medication for their children with SN. They just need to be a better parent.

Mothers have to stay at home with their children 1:1 till they are 3. Oh don't worry about the bills. Don't worry that you are going mad. Stay there, stay in that little room with your one child (one child? What if you have more than one? How do you do 1: 1 then? Or even twins? THEY WILL BE DAMAGED BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY ONE OF YOU)

Stating the obvious like a radical new discovery, like "love bombing". Seriously? Giving my child a lot of loving attention will make my attention-seeking child feel better? NO FUCKING SHIT SHERLOCK, NOW WILL YOU CLEAN THE PLAGUE-RIDDEN BATHROOM AND GET THE DINNER ON AND THE WASHING HUNG OUT WHILE I DO THE LOVE-BOMBING? Because otherwise we are all coming down with D&V, everyone will be sobbing with hunger at 6pm and no one will have anything to wear tomorrow, because I was lying on the floor with my child saying "what colour do you want me to paint your feet?"

He makes sweeping judgements that make people in vulnerable situations cry (eg me, when pregnant and trying to hang onto my job, hearing him airily blast maternal stress in pregnancy as a big cause of childhood mental illness. I bawled and howled that I had damaged my baby before she was born. Yup that did a lot of good to my stress levels)

talks crap about people's choices with no regard for the socio-economic influences on them

This one, though trivial, really bugs me: he did a spiel about how people who move further out of town for a bigger house do not have a net gain in happiness because of the commute. SHUT UP SHUT UP YOU KNOW NOTHING. I cannot afford a house near my job that I can actually physically bear to live in. I mean seriously. While renting a too-small house recently I actually could not sleep (dp snores) and am still recovering; also to have a garden is a massive advantage to the girls, I cannot see that as a remotely trivial thing because for small children who can't go anywhere alone it is the difference between spending any time outdoors or not. We are not the only family who, despite earning good money, cannot afford a 3/4 bed house with a garden in zone 1 or 2. Hollow laugh. Who can? I think our sitch is pretty normal and I think we have made good choices to have a nice life AND I FUCKING LOVE MY COMMUTE which is the easiest and nicest I have ever had, including living in zone 2. SO SHUT YOUR FAT FACE BECAUSE IT IS INSANE TO TRY AND SUGGEST PEOPLE "SHOULD" BE LIVING IN CENTRAL LONDON. I don't know why this bugs me so much, it is just something about the blinkered arrogance of presuming to suggest that it is even possible to have a remotely nice family home even on a modestly decent income.

I think overall what really bugs me is that there is a well meaning grain of sense in it all, here and there, but HE HAS NO IDEA HOW REAL PEOPLE LIVE OR WHY THEY LIVE LIKE THAT and we need a MOVEMENT that supports mothers and families, not people waffling and imagining that we could have all this health-giving light and time and space and love if we just CHOSE to

Wibblypiglikesbananas Wed 17-Jul-13 11:37:08

Oh my goodness, posted on the first thread weeks ago and it disappeared! Will read through and update later. Glad to find everyone again!

FunLovinBunster Wed 17-Jul-13 12:56:59

I fucking hate crafting.
And baking.
And Disney fucking anything
And perky loud parenting.
Fuck the actual fuck off.

Meglet Wed 17-Jul-13 13:15:54

Oliver James, he of the 'do as I say not as I do' school of parenting. The man sits in a study and writes books, he's not tearing after small children all day.

mrsibley Wed 17-Jul-13 15:48:06

This is why I never read parenting books. I opened a well known one called "Raising Boys" by stephen biddolph (or some such name) to be told that nursery is bad for boys under 3 as they need one to one care and attention at all times. One of the very few things I am sure of as a parent is that my little boy has benefitted hugely from going to nursery in as many ways as I can think of and no one can convince me otherwise. I shut that book there and then and never opened another one as I do enough self flagellation without some self styled expert telling me where, in their completely subjective opinion, I am going wrong.

curryeater I cannot even begin to describe the stress I was under during both my pregnancies. I was seriously, seriously distressed at points especially during the first one. Both my kids are happy, healthy and unaffected. One midwife described the unborn baby as "floating around quite happily in there, blissfully unaware" and I honestly believe this to be true, based on my experience. Babies are carried and born fine in war zones ffs.

The parenting book thing is in my opinion, just yet another example of how women are kept insecure by the "experts".

curryeater Wed 17-Jul-13 15:52:59

Right, mrsribley. I remembered for some reason recently our landlord coming round, all smiles, when dd1 was newborn with a packet of white asda baby vests, and I burst into tears of joy and relief because I had been literally hiding from him when visibly pregnant because we had a "no children" clause on our contract and I thought he would give us notice. I completely worried myself into a corner day and night - night particularly - in both pregnancies and each time my dds were born fat and laid back. Any way in which I have since fucked them up is entirely separate.

KingRollo Wed 17-Jul-13 20:04:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Meglet Wed 17-Jul-13 21:52:01

mrsibley 6.8yo DS doesn't have a dad and he went to nursery from 18 months. When he's tearing around with his school friends you cannot tell who went to nursery, who didn't, who has 2 parents, who is from a single parent family etc. He's as bright as a button and his teacher adores him, so I've obviously not screwed him up (too) much yet. I'm the one who needs help!

I feel like the pressure is gently easing off now it's the end of term. DS will have some sleepovers at his Grandparents during the holidays on the days I'm at work. Today was the last time I had to do a school and nursery run before work, from sept I've only got a school drop off before work.

I do like this thread, all the grumbling cheers me up!

TheConstantLurker Thu 18-Jul-13 06:33:40

Hello all. Just caught up with last couple of pages and it all sounds reassuringly familiar. Thank god.
I learned after about 7 years that baking and craft with children did not work for ME. Not sure they got much out of it either as they tended to lose interest after the first 3 minutes.
Had a slight barney with my co-parent last night over holidays as I stated that I would like at some point to be alone. No him, no children. Just me and the cats. Cue blank look and then spiel about spending timevtogether as a family. No actually I don't think I need that and the children would love to have time with him.
I am dreading the summer holidays.

Feelingood Thu 18-Jul-13 07:54:38

Hello just checking in.

Well i was beginning to wonder if I should by a parenting book but by the tone of the posts from above I think I'll just keeping MNing instead grin

king glad you have your shed still. Sometimes its never things we worry about that end up causing us bother. Hope your other help turns up for you.

mrs Ribley and curryeater I had a very stressful first pg with DS. We lost a twin, I was off work for an extended period of time. When I returned they had not covered me properly and I walked into a shit storm of complaints. I then had a huge scare with remaining baby. Work then got v scared and double staffed me for the rest of pg. I was also err getting married as it was all booked we went ahead. It took my mind of pg but obviously stressful in itself. I think DS is ok. Im not entirely sure I am - That year really knocked the stuffing out of me and had ramifications for unto three years. Last pg different whilst I worried it has been much easier as 2nd time round and different circumstances. Not working from conception onwards was so much easier. I really enjoyed DD's first few months.

meglet I hear you re school run, Im counting down the days grin It is the part of the day I really do not like. Ive had issues sad a noter thread though....

constant I would so love to go on a cookery holiday to tuscany or somewhere like that and drink wine overlong golden vineyards without a packet of wipes in sight. Being able to put things down, have several thoughts stringed together without interruption.

I have found myself this last half term (3months ish) quite disorganised I've sort of done the house and some studying but feel like Im flying by the seat of my baggy knickers every day. Everything is pulled together last minute. There has been a lot of end of term stuff at school/gym/beavers. DS has events thats seem to be never ending that he needs 'stuff' for. They family keep needing feeding - cooking - I never thought it would become so bothersome.

My good news is DH is away at end of month and as he knows I am left with kids he has agreed to me booking a short break for 3 nights in cornwall. At the minute Ive found a tent on a Haven park. Im happy to do a beans, bucket and spade type holiday, where if we don't get bathed for a could of days so be it!!!! Im holding out for a caravan though.

Feelingood Thu 18-Jul-13 07:55:53

chef - but poo to have a shed to escape to....id be happy with that!

Feelingood Thu 18-Jul-13 07:56:06

ooh sorry

curryeater Thu 18-Jul-13 09:35:12

Hello everyone

Bawled over dd1's "learning journey" from preschool last night. It shows her changing from a baby into a little girl. They have been so good for her and the detail of everything they have reported is incredible and her personality shines through. I wish I could put that book in a time machine and send it back to me in the summer of 2008, when I was incredibly stressed about the enormity of having a baby and sure it was impossible and that I would be a shit parent and everything would be awful for her. I would love to show that old self the pictures of a little girl playing and learning happily surrounded by people being good to her.

also I think that the staff there are geniuses at bringing children on without appearing to didactically teach, and their kindless, patience, and stamina is mindblowing. No need for working parent guilt when you see what a good job the pros do.

KingRollo, that weaning diet sounds great - well done!

Meglet, how funny that the grumbling can be so cheering, I know what you mean. Relentless positivity can just make you feel shit inside. It is the main point of difference between me and my mum - I feel better if I can admit to the shitness, she feels better if she can pretend it is not there - which is why we didn't get on when I had problems as a child because I had no one to talk to and resented her for not letting me talk to her. Now I think she is great, in her own way, but it is a huge psychological relief to admit to myself that although she is great, because of a personality clash she was not very good at looking after me.

Feelinggood that pregnancy sounds horrific. I am sorry for your loss. I know what you mean that there are some things you don't bounce back from.
Good luck with the holiday!

Constantlurker - stand your ground on being alone.

Feelingood Thu 18-Jul-13 10:22:27

curryeater that is lovely, savour the moment. Your sound so proud and content. Maybe our stresses served us not to be complacent in our approach to the huge responsibility and care of our DC's smile. I hope you have a little celebration treat.

You know I havn't got time for people who pretend or omit to the point of presenting more false front than Jordan. Its not life - life it both good and not so good and occasionally really shitty.

Im about to book tent on holiday park. Been checking weather threads.

bigkidsdidit Thu 18-Jul-13 13:13:30

That's lovely curry eater. And may I say I loved your Oliver James rant grin

I have similar perspective this time, with DC2. I knew absolutely NOTHING when I had DS1, had never held a baby or even seen a nappy being changed. And he is now 2.5 and seems to be unscathed by my at times hopeless parenting. So this time I'm just plodding through it, trusting that DS2 will survive too. I'm much more relaxed about the possibilities of completely fucking it all up.

I am very sad about the damage done to my and DS1's relationship, though

curryeater Thu 18-Jul-13 13:24:57

Thanks, feelingood.

I have just seen a thread where a desperate mother of a 4 week old is talking about suicide. She asked her husband to come or stay home but he said "you're fine." (It looks as if a local mn-er will be going over there.) It reminded me of a few times on this thread where people have said the equivalent of "he doesn't get it, I am drowning, not waving!" I suppose this relates to the difficulty of finding the balance between counting your blessings and trying to be positive, and being forced into a position of excruciating denial. I'm interested in how partners don't get it? or don't hear it? Do we not say it? Or do they not hear it, or realise how serious it is?
I asked dp to come home early once and he laughed at me. He seriously thought it was funny that I was such a wet and couldn't cope. He didn't think it was fucking funny when it was his job.
I think there is an ingrained lack of respect for women that means their struggling can be discounted. "It can't be that bad." It fucking well can be.

Feelingood Thu 18-Jul-13 14:55:20

Oh yes curryeater I havnt seen the thread you refer to but bloody hell there are some ares holes out there.

It rings bells. I was very poorly with tonsilitis like symptoms but didn't actually have the swollen throat. I asked my DH to come home early ASAP but he had to stay for a function after work. I was seething when he slipped in a few days later that 'things like that aren't compulsory but it helps to get you face know' (he works for a v large firm) - fucker. Thenhe got it at weekend and I said oh really?, that's what zi had two days ago when I had a baby and school run to do poor fucking you. Oh it makes me boil. angry

This am too h ease did I was in the huff with him and I said no, but I sort of am just because he doesn't get that he has adult time. I never detract away from how hard he is working. he is generous with the money I have a lot of freedom in some ways re extra holiday I've booked but it doesn't make up for the fact that NO they DONT GET IT.

curryeater Thu 18-Jul-13 15:24:42

Only if you make you get it (engineering this being of course another job for you)

TheConstantLurker Thu 18-Jul-13 18:55:48

I am going out with work colleagues tonight. First time out for a very long time. Co parent has checked where I am going, what time, what I will be back and warned me against drinking too much. I feel like a kid.
On the other hand:

sicily1921 Thu 18-Jul-13 23:07:26

Do any of you wake up in the morning and feel a wave of anxiety at the sheer RESPONSIBILITY of bringing up kids? Mrs Sibley this is my default setting throughout the day.

Feelingood Thu 18-Jul-13 23:09:23

ching bloody ching

Meglet Fri 19-Jul-13 07:44:40

curry maybe our mantra should be 'Admit to the shit'.

I've got a blood test today to see if the menopause is kicking in. Been having various weird physical and emotional symptoms for months so GP said she'd check. I bet it comes back negative and it's all stress related hmm. Felt very shaky and weepy at work yesterday, despite nothing going wrong, was ok after a couple of hours but was desperate to hide away and sob.

DogsAreEasierThanChildren Fri 19-Jul-13 08:04:01

curryeater, I think a lot of them don't get it because they don't have to get it - parenthood simply isn't affecting them in the way it is their partners, it's in their interest to keep things that way, and how many of us really understood what being a parent would be like before having babies? And the whole culture is set up to make it hard to share the burden.

Sorry you're having such a tough time Meglet. If it's any consolation I've had a couple of very similar episodes at work this year - you are not alone! A colleague killed herself at the beginning of the year and I think in my already-stressed state that tipped me over the edge.

FamilyNapPlease Fri 19-Jul-13 09:11:47

I lost it today. I was putting away the shopping while DS was having a tired time tantrum and found myself tearing up couple of bags of crisps, then throwing them at the kitchen wall and doing a big scream sad Too much stress and at my utter utter limit of being able to do it all alone. Not that I single parent but it is like that sometimes when DP shift works. Poor DS his meltdown triggered mine, but mine scared both of us sad

We are moving house very soon, I am packing everything, very slowly, while looking after DS full time, and there are lots of family issues going on with all the DGPs, also several sets of family coming into town to visit before we leave, help seems hard to ask for and/or organise and there is so much to do and sort out, and I am so tired. Lovely DP is taking a shift off work thank god.

Have been okay with it all up until a couple of days ago when a family issue came to my attention. Not my responsibility but that extra stress was too much I think. The last couple of days I thought talking my stress through with DP would be enough to get me through but I just snapped under all the weight. Poor poor wee DS. I was not the mummy I want to be for him today sad

FamilyNapPlease Fri 19-Jul-13 09:18:21

That mother of the four week old - people need to get that when mums say they need help they really bloody need it! We don't ask unless things are really tough. But society really downplays the seriousness of mothers signalling for support.

I think we even downplay it ourselves sometimes until it just chops us at the knees and we can't go on. Because we so desperately WANT to be able to go on and do it all.

curryeater Fri 19-Jul-13 11:48:19

FamilyNapPlease - omg what a brilliant expression "chops us at the knees"
big hugs to you all today.
Moving house is a complete and utter fucker.
courage, mes braves x

TheConstantLurker Fri 19-Jul-13 13:06:54

Yes big hugs especially to Meglet from a mostly lurking type.
Think co-parent and I are going to finally split. Coming on for a while.
Y'know what, part of what I am feeling right now is that sense once more of having to shoulder the burden. It is me who will cope, who will pack, who will make decisions, who will run this to it's final conclusion because if I don't it will drift along for months.
Sorry not particularly related to thread.

bigkidsdidit Fri 19-Jul-13 13:23:55

Sorry to hear that Constant and that you're having a tough time Meglet.

Today for the first time I am looking after both DC on my own. DS1 has so far watched the incredibles and about two hours of mickey on YouTube blush and has eaten a few crisps, a biscuit and a small bag of haribo. But we are all surviving! DS2 us happy, I've had a shower and I've even swept the floor and washed the bed sheets <proud>

This afternoon I must play with DS1 more and not leave him with the iPad.

Annakin31 Fri 19-Jul-13 15:13:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

curryeater Fri 19-Jul-13 15:32:58

Sorry TheConstantLurker to hear that. Sending you strength to deal with it all.
Hi Annakin. Glad to hear you are feeling better.
Bigkidsdidit, sounds like you are holding it all together brilliantly
Ledkr are you on here? Sorry to cross threads but what happened about the passport?

YoniBottsBumgina Fri 19-Jul-13 21:49:12

Hello all. Sorry I still haven't got round to doing my proper offloading but maybe I can just start from tonight.

DS age 4.9 was falling asleep almost on sofa watching a film. He had already slipped over while trying to kick me and badly scraped his back on the table. Anyway he was properly relaxed, great I thought, I'll give him a nice cuddle/carry to get him to bed and he'll be off. But no. First I take his shoes off nice and gently. He screams in my face because he wanted to take them off himself. So, I let him. Fine, never mind. Manage to salvage the cuddle/carry idea, all is calm and relaxed and lovely until we get to his room and I swear, there is something in built that as soon as he sees his bed he is suddenly wide awake again. Anyway I tried to suppress the rage and read him stories, which didn't help (where are these magical children who are instantly calmed by a bath or a story? Mine must just be wired wrong.) Kept perfectly calm tone all through. Left room. He decides he can't sleep and needs to play. Whatever. Then he comes down and angry I have NO idea but he's all "Mummy I was just fiddling my foot in a thing and I thought it was nothing but now my sock is all..." And I am all "SPIT IT OUT, child." And it turns out the thing he was "fiddling his foot" in was his fucking potty and now there's wee up the wall and everything. I texted DP and just said, when do children turn into normal people, reasonable people who don't do stupid ass shit like wiggle their foot in a potty full of piss. I took the potty out of his room and then ge screamed for about ten minutes because he will have to use the toilet downstairs as we don't have one upstairs. I told him I'm sick of him kicking it over and his room will smell like wee. Then we had a fight about him staying in his room, and I am just done. I have no energy left and I need to clean up before my mum comes over to babysit tomorrow. And I ran out of cigarettes but I can't go to the shop because of DS.

feelingood Sat 20-Jul-13 12:24:31

Hi all.

ledkr have you had passport issues. Im just about to send off two new passports for DC, 1 x renewal and 1 x renewal plus name change. Ive used my married name on parent section of kids passports but expired passport number has my maiden name on it....I don't know Im using checking service next week need them for October. (sorry for hijack)

meglet Hope you get somewhere with test results. It awful not understanding whats happening to your own body and you feel in limbo.

curryeater hope your move is going ok. Really do not envy you shifting stuff in this heat - I nearly fainted cleaning bathroom yesterday.

constant did you enjoy your night out the other evening? Suppose it is a daft question now given your post about separating. I separated from DH for a while but we sorted ourselves out, so please ask whatever you want. I really understand that burden of sorting it all out BUT it will keep you busy initially and as you take more control over practical aspects of day to day living and start making independent decision it can be liberating. Try to hang on to these bits of it and just accept the uncertainty of it all - one day you can be so upset you hurt so bad then angry you are ready to knock down houses. It is a brave step to take and you have our support right here.

Yoni Im really trying to stop having such blow ups - I think I average once a week. That potty business sounds a right pain.

anakin sounds like you had a rough start, but you and the DC's are still here getting on. I think the fact that you can reflect on your experience and see it as that means you are aware enough to make changes - its great to see how you've worked at it with your DC1 - thats what real mums do isn't it - keep wiring at it.

I am so ANGRY, i thought we were doing all right and felt humbled by this thread and a few others. But its all gone to shit.

I have never looked forward to a holiday so much just to get away from it all.

Ledkr Sat 20-Jul-13 13:22:26

We were supposed to sail tomorrow am but dds passport ran out Thursday.
I literally did the opposite of. Meltdown and just was numb and resigned.
I think I was already at the top of the stress mountain so could only come down iyswim?
I have managed to do so damage limitation at great cost and so we are going Friday instead.after a run to newport for an emergency one.
Some inevitability about it really as our luck has been so shit.
So anyway this week we are trying the holiday at home and so far it's very nice. Just enjoying no work n school and dh being here.
How are we all coping with the heat?

FunLovinBunster Sat 20-Jul-13 16:28:15

Bloody hell.
Has the heat turned anyone else's little treasure into a whiny drama llama non sleeper?
If my DD hits the hysterical over nothing button one more time I'm going annihilate the pair of us.

Ledkr Sat 20-Jul-13 16:46:36

Dd2 is whingeing for England yes but she's sleepin well so I can just about cope.
I had a lie on this morning and could just hear continuous whingeing unchallenged by dh.

fluffandnonsense Sat 20-Jul-13 16:47:11

Can I join? Always been a relatively happy go lucky person but having the DC has changed me a lot. I suffered severe PND with DS and had to battle to become whole again. Was fine with DD but since being pregnant with DC3 (having a miscarriage at 13 weeks) and now pregnant again with DC4 (11 weeks just gone) I've been struggling. My life has changed so much. I spend most of my time alone in the house with the kids and some days just sit and cry. I miss the old me!

Meglet Sat 20-Jul-13 18:21:00

familynap I totally understand the wanting to rip things up and thrown them feeling. I broke my favourite mug last year after slamming it down too hard when I was ragey and I'm forever slamming doors.

The dc's haven't stopped today, non stop questions or whinging. After some epic shouting (from me) I did manage to get them out of my way for 30 mins so I could do my Shred DVD. I felt calm for about 5 seconds afterwards then they both came downstairs and started up again.

fluff you're welcome to join. I've only had one early miscarriage at 6 weeks but it totally affected the following pregnancy with DD, I was always on edge. How old are your DC's?

feelingood Sat 20-Jul-13 19:23:56

Oh ledkr thats bad luck. You sound as if you trying to be positive though re holiday at home. I hope you are having more of a rest with your DH there. Could you treat yourself by going somewhere even if its just for coffee and a book/magazine?

Well DS did not want to go in the shower or get washed or put clothes on or have his hair brushed. We were going out to do something really nice for him that he wanted. In the end I said he couldn't have it. After a lot of shouting I simply said why should we do this for you when all you have done is be obstructive when getting ready. Tears whining tear tears tears. I swear my 18 month old is a breeze by comparison.

I worry that I'm not 'getting him' and that we are at odds as I one him so much and he does make me proud when we out and about but I get so irritated and angry with him - then the guilt.

DH and I ended up shopping and spending far too much money - anyone been shopping for shorts they are like gold dust. So before thursday need to get house put straight and write an essay. Then we going on short break.