Soooo hard

(263 Posts)
Kafri Thu 17-Jan-13 05:59:58

Am I really the only person finding this mummy thing sooooo difficult?
Don't get me wrong,I'm thrilled I have DS but I'm knackered. He's 4 weeks old and will not sleep on his back at all. Dr tried gaviscon as hv suspected reflux, didn't work and DS was still really unsettled (all the time). Dr is now trying lactose free milk which seems to be calming him tho he still won't settle ANYWHERE but on someone.
Doesn't even settle properly in the car or pram which he did the first week we were home, sleeps for a short time then wakes and screams. It upsets me as you see all these mums with content little babies out in the pram and there's me with mine screaming!
DH and I have been doing shifts with DS as someone has to hold him 24 hours! I'm getting worried about how I'll manage when DH goes back to work and its just me! He sleeps really well when on someone but the minute he goes down, he unsettles himself. He hates being swaddled and fights his way out!
I've lifted his crib at he head end, I've raised the mattress, I give a warm bath in bedtime routine etc
Looking back, he has always been unsettled on his back, even in hospital. I just thought it would settle but it got worse to the point where he won't go down at all. At one point he would only sleep upright-so curled up against our chest.
I tried having him in bed with me - kicked DH out, moved to middle of bed etc but just didn't feel comfortable enough to sleep myself.

I've tried letting him cry, just for a few mins (like while I boil the kettle, or nip to the loo), but it doesn't stop and I'm not comfortable with leaving him any longer than that -I just think he's too young.

I've always been really good with kids, I work with them too, so why ami finding this soooo hard. What am I doing wrong??

I'm sorry this is a bit disjointed and all over the place.

Please help and share you're experience as a new first time mum.

Oh and overnight, well between about 5-8am he seems to have really bad tummy cramps. He's on lactulose for constipation from the gaviscon but the tummy cramps also happened before the constipation too? It was like he was staining for hours to poo then when he finally managed his nappy was perfectly normal. The first time it happened I thought he was bunged up then was really surprised when his nappy was normal when it finally happened.

I feel like everyone else has these happy content little babies, and then there's me!!

Sorry it's such a long rambling!

MsPickle Thu 17-Jan-13 06:21:53

Poor you, that's really hard. My ds was like this and remained a poor sleeper for ages. He had reflux and gaviscon didn't help, ranitidine did. Dd is just 5 weeks and had severe silent reflux which landed us in hospital but a mixture of donperidone and omeprazole has really helped so I can put her down on her back. With ds I resorted to putting him on his side supported by a towel, we'd been co sleeping but I needed the break. If your doc thinks reflux there are other things to try so perhaps ask again? Good luck, this too will pass!

Bananapickle Thu 17-Jan-13 08:18:28

I would definitely recommend putting him on his side. I put my DD in her side from 2 days because she didn't settle on her back. If he has got silent reflux or the such like this may help him feel more comfortable.
Also have you tried warming his Moses basket or whatever he has witha hot water bottle so that he's not going from nice warm you to a cold bed. You could try putting a comforter down your top so it smells of you and then put that with the baby that can sometimes help too.
Just a couple of will get easier but it is horrible when you're in the thick of it.

Forgetfulmog Thu 17-Jan-13 08:45:43

Sounds exactly like my dd OP! She's now 4 months but it was he'll to start off with. Like yours she wouldn't sleep other than on me or DH (still doesn't during the day), would cry if I left her for more than 2 secs etc etc.

My advice to you - get yourself a sling & put DS in it (even while you go to the loo). Put him to sleep on his left side (it makes his stomach slightly higher so reduces reflux). Gaviscon will cause constipation - you can try giving lukewarm boiled water to help. Oh & use a dummy - the sucking helps with both reflux & constipation. You could also ask your Gp for a prescription for ranitidine (buy be prepared for a fight).

Things will get easier, I promise, you just need to hang in there.

& yes it's not just you, parenting is fucking hard work

Forgetfulmog Thu 17-Jan-13 08:47:14

Oh & also make a little nest for your DS with a rolled up towel covered by a fitted Moses basket sheet, then cover that with a muslin that's been down your top

Kafri Thu 17-Jan-13 10:00:32

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll keep trying.

I keep trying a dummy but as a rule he doesn't take it - in fact sometimes it makes him scream more when I try to pop it in.

Will try warming his basket up first.

Wherever I pop him down he screams, I have a swing seat, a bouncer, a playmat (tried tummy and back), a playnest, the sofa, middle of bed. All, 5 mins maximum.

Can't eat properly. Have to get dh to it food so I can just pick up with fork 1 handed.

Got a sling arriving at sisters house this week, waiting for postage so hopefully that will help matters. I'm at a loss as far as keep for me is concerned.

Forgetfulmog Thu 17-Jan-13 10:22:27

Yep DH has to cut food up for me too - I've become quite adept at eating with my left hand! OP - the sling will be your life saver. Trust me. Also, if you have an iPhone you can download an app called Baby Sleep Lite - it's a fan sound & always stops my baby crying. Without fail.

ZuleikaD Thu 17-Jan-13 11:04:33

Oh dear - but don't worry, four weeks is still VERY tiny! Most babies want to sleep 'on' someone at this point and a sling can be an absolute godsend. DS was born when DD was 18m and he pretty much lived in the sling for about three months. It was brilliant - slept, ate and grew loads and then at 12 weeks transferred ti sleeping on his back in his cot without any trouble at all.

Iggly Thu 17-Jan-13 11:24:41

Ditch the gaviscon - especially as he's on other medication to counter its effects!

Push for hypo llergenic formula or different reflux medication. However hypo allergenic formula may well be enough.

Also dont compare your baby to others!

Part of your baby's behaviour is the fact he is 4 weeks old. They like to be held and they need (usually, before someone comes along and says otherwise) loads of sleep. This alone will make them very angry and prone to crying if left.

So you hold your baby. That's what he needs. Once you've got a sling you can get about a bit more.

Have you got a bouncy chair? Try a vibrating one if you can. This might help. Make sure he's not too cold - sitting still in this weather cools you down (hence it's better to just hold them!)

Really lower your expectations. None of this perfect housewife stuff while baby sleeps. You look after yourself and baby.

Iggly Thu 17-Jan-13 11:26:32

Is your baby getting enough sleep? He might need a bit of help getting there - they stop drifting off by themselves quite do easily after a few weeks.

Is such early days, it gets so much easier and more fun. Just hang on in there! I could've written your post, had such a similar experience, I remember looking at the peaceful babies sleeping happily in their prams, and being so upset that mine was always screaming.

FuriousRox Thu 17-Jan-13 13:35:18

One thing for sure - you are not doing anything "wrong". Another thing for sure - not true that all others have contented babies! You may have it harder than others at the moment, not to trivialise what you are enduring, but it's not because they are better at this lark than you.

Kafri Thu 17-Jan-13 14:47:07

Iggly - Is he getting enough sleep?? I sincerely doubt it. I've been trying to get him to sleep since about 8 this morning. Obviously there's been feeds in there along with a drive out to my dr appt.
I've paced the floor, tried the swing, tried the bouncy chair, rocked him, bounced him, swaddled him, given a dummy, fed him, changed him and took him in the car. The longest he's not cried for is 5 mins when I managed to pop him on his tummy. The rest of the time he's just screamed screamed screamed and showing no signs of letting up. He bypasses crying and goes straight in for the scream!

We stopped the gaviscon as it was making him constipated. Dr has given him lactulose yesterday. He's had 3 doses. Had a relatively normal nappy about an hour ago tho I'm sure there's more to come after a good few days of tiny amount of firmer poo.

We have a vibrating bouncy chair, he's not overly impressed with it so far but we'll keep going with it.

Thanks for all the replies mums, very helpful. I suppose I just hadn't anticipated exactly how hard it would be. I knew about sleepless nights etc but hadn't anticipated holding him 24/7, therefore getting NO sleep. It took us so many years to get him, ending in IVF that I never actually allowed myself to think 'baby' in case it never happend for us. My way of not having too far to fall really! Even while pregnant I wouldn't think beyond the next few days for fear of something going wrong.

Iggly Thu 17-Jan-13 16:06:20

What worked for us when ds did this was taking him to a very dark room, sticking on loud music and dancing gently holding him and he'd finally give in! I'd always give myself ten minutes to try and time it as ten minutes can seem an age and I'd usually give up too quickly.

Also napping him within say 30-45 mins of being awake in the morning then 60 mins or so thereafter.

The sling will be your friend here once it arrives.

Once you get him sleeping better he will be more settled. Extreme overtiredness can look like reflux (been there, done that twice!!!!)

Forgetfulmog Thu 17-Jan-13 16:10:34

It must have been a very worrying time for you - I really feel for you.

In terms of the sleep - if you can get him to sleep on you or DH at night you might be able to sleep yourselves. What I do is prop myself up on pillows & have a v shaped pillow around my head (basically so I can't turn over) & have dd on my chest. I can actually sleep like that & I know dd is safe & secure. Might be worth thinking about. As for the chair - dont worry, mine hated it until she was approx 13-14 weeks old & now she loves it. At your DS' age though she just wanted to be held all the time - it's a natural instinct for babies really.

Keep talking to us & keep your chin up - it WILL get easier! smile

MsPickle Thu 17-Jan-13 16:11:04

You sound like you're doing a good job for the record, you're doing what he needs, caring for him. We christened my ds the incredible awake baby as he slept so little. It was very hard work but we've ended up with a great bond. Challenges remain and always will but we've survived this far. Now I've a dd who's got medication that's controlling her reflux properly I wish I'd made more fuss first time as maybe it could have helped him. She was in hospital the other week and they had her bed angled and a towel curved into a horseshoe shape and they got me to put her bum in the bottom of the u as they've found it helps small babies to settle. We've bought a foam wedge from amazon and I think that helps. Push your GP for help if you want too. Yes, every baby cries but finding out why if you can might help you both. Good luck!

Iggly Thu 17-Jan-13 16:13:23

Oh and don't put him down once he's asleep. Wait for 20 mins then put him down. As he gets older you won't have to hold him for as long.

iwillsleepagainsomeday Thu 17-Jan-13 16:58:04


have a 3 week old dc3 and just to say I am holding him almost 24/7 as well. He usually drifts off during bf and only if I am extremely lucky i will be able to put him in his basket after 20min.
at night he sleeps/bf on me.
during dinner I usually eat one handedly.
all very normal!

i do understand where u come from though. With my first it almost drived me crazy but nowi just go with the flow knowing that it will soon

Passthesaltdear Thu 17-Jan-13 21:49:11

We had same with my first ds, so tiring and upsetting to deal with the crying. Make sure you aren't over stimulating him, so feed in the dark with no tv etc. you are doing a fab job and it does get easier!
I know it is against advice but neither of mine would sleep unless on their tummies

BertieBotts Thu 17-Jan-13 21:52:30

I agree keep pushing the HCPs if he seems to be in pain - poor mite sad

You might be able to get away with putting him to sleep on his tummy and then turning him over when asleep?? Perhaps if you sort of lie him on a folded blanket and fold the blanket back over him so you're just rolling the blanket over and him with it.

Kafri Fri 18-Jan-13 18:58:52


LF milk seems to be making a little difference, tho it is little! He is constipated from the gaviscon so is still on lactulose and have stopped the gaviscon since Monday. Tuesday and Wednesday were not bad days to be fair. However Thursday and Friday have been atrocious. Thursday he SCREAMED from 8am thru to 3/4pm and today he has screamed from 10am and is still at it now. I'm hoping its the constipation and it will pass quickly once the lactulose takes effect.
He was back at the GP yesterday who said health wise he wasn't concerned and to keep going with the LF milk.

Please don't shout at me for this but I have had to give in and Kay him on his mat and leave him to cry for a bit. Not long-I'm bit cruel - but I honestly tried EVERYTHING I could think of. I've even been out in the snow to try to settle him that way but no!

The only thing that made any difference was to hold him at my shoulder and bounce him which is fine but after so many hours doing it these last 2 days, my back is burning and sooooo sore!

Don't get me wrong, I'm still thrilled that ice been able to have him but this hasn't been the happy experience I'd hoped for so far!!

Kafri Fri 18-Jan-13 19:00:31

Not cruel, not bit cruel. Bloody iPhone correcting things it thinks it finds. I'm sure there'll be others in there too!

Iggly Fri 18-Jan-13 19:07:27

I think he needs more sleep. Try getting him down within 45 mins of waking for the day - so start after 30 nins of being awake. It seems short but honestly it can work.

RicStar Fri 18-Jan-13 19:25:32

OP Do you have a pregnancy/gym ball my dd loved to be bounced on one (me sat on it holding her) we bounced (gently) for hrs watching rubbish tv in the early days so might be worth shot (saved my sanity & back in early days only way to stop dd crying).

Forgetfulmog Fri 18-Jan-13 19:42:35

I second that ricstar - I'd forgotten about the gym ball!

Kafri Fri 18-Jan-13 21:05:43

Iggly - i agree he needs more sleep - i agree wholeheartedly. i just cannot get him to sleep for love nor money!

i will defo give the gym ball a go! thanks

Jac1978 Fri 18-Jan-13 21:19:13

God I could have written your post eight months ago word for word! For us it was colic - we found Infacol and Colief helped sometimes but not all the time and no-one seemed to have any solution. I have never known despair like it - the sheer stress of having a screaming baby and the lack of sleep were both torture - I think I only got through it with the help of DH and my mum. I know this isn't going to sound helpful right now but this will pass. We found that at three months things calmed down a lot and even more so when she went into a proper cot and when she started solids. All I can say is hang in there, I know it feels like forever but it won't be. Don't be afraid to ask for help and don't feel bad if you need to leave the room for five minutes just to calm down, we've all be there. Be kind to yourself - you're doing really well and the end is not as far away as you think xxx

Iggly Fri 18-Jan-13 21:19:21

Yes I know it's bloody hard! My ds was awful. The worst time was when he wouldn't sleep between 8pm and 5am....!!!! Most of that was spent screaming. In the end we had to take him for a long walk in the sling with a dummy and he finally caved in :-/

Our biggest issue was over stimulation (well he had reflux as well) - he'd get over excited and too much "in your face" play and that would stop him sleeping = overtired madness. So I had to spend days with minimal stimulation just took him for walks and let him observe.

If he sleeps better on you - let him.

Iggly Fri 18-Jan-13 21:21:21

Also DH would be the one who could get him to sleep - pitch black room with loud music (or loud white noise), swaddle and rock. And he'd finally give in. It was hard, so very hard for us.

WeAreSix Fri 18-Jan-13 21:29:14

Sorry if this has been asked, I've only skim read the thread.

What was his birth like? My 1st DD was like this, she was a back-to-back ventouse delivery and I'm pretty sure her head was sore.

It does get easier. If your baby needs cuddles, then just do that. I've generally found with all my DCs that the less I've worried, the more I've followed their lead then the easier life has been.

Kafri Fri 18-Jan-13 21:49:04

thanks iggly - wiil give anything a whirl! im defo finding that dh can settle him better than me atm - when he will finally settle anyway.

wearesix - birth was quick in the end. 30 hours to get to 3cm but then 2.5 hours to get from 3cm to him arriving which mw said was v quick for a first??
on day 2 we noticed he was poorly and we had to stay in while he had 5 days of antibiotics and a lumbar puncture. always seemed unsettled on back but gradually got worse to the point he wouldnt even go on his back which is why we ended up holding him so much.

Tried infacol - if its doing anything at all then i would really have a devil child without it so i suspect its not doing anything.

HV said to try colief. had a look at chemist today and the box said it helps to break down lactose to aid digestion?? he's on lactose free milk from the dr now so that seems a little pointless really - silly HV (she does know he's on LF milk) bloody glad i didn't waste 12 quid on it on her advice - it was only cos i read the box rather than just buy it

Kafri Fri 18-Jan-13 21:52:02

iggly - forgot to say - the fact that dh can seem to settle him better than me only serves to make me feel more of a failure as a mum so i'm glad you said you found that too.

i'm so worried about dh going back to work next thurs. how i'll manage on my own with days and nights to do is beyond me!

DS2 was like this, from birth to about 3m I would have to lay him sideways in my arms, always head on my left arm, and do a strange bounce and rock dance! Considering that silent reflux was the problem the last thing I thought he would like was to be swung back and forth, but it was the only thing that helped him get off to sleep. I knew he had reflux a few hours after his birth, and can remember telling the midwife, who said it was nonsense and that he was just being a newborn, took me 3m to get anyone to prescribe anything for him, and he is now on Nutrimagen AA, Infant Gaviscon and lactulose, which have helped.

He used to get tired about an hour after he had woken, and there would be a tiny window of opportunity to get him to sleep, if missed he would let us know he was unhappy! I used to watch him like a hawk for every little sign of tiredness and pounce when I saw the smallest yawn.

He has been seen by a Dietician, a Paediatrician and a Cranial Osteopath. The Paed said that sometimes they appear constipated, but that it is more that their digestive system is immature and has trouble actually moving food along. DS2 used to make a huge fuss over doing a poo, but when he had actually gone it was fine, the lactulose just helps things along a bit. The Cranial Osteopath also said his gut seemed sluggish. The Dietician said he had CMPI and advised the Dr to prescribe the Nutrimagen AA. Am not totally convinced about this diagnosis however, but am happy to wait until he is 1 for the milk trial as I dont want to risk making things worse.

Not sure if this is helpful, its really hard dealing with a reflux baby, I used to look at other mums with their sleeping, contented babies and think 'what am I doing wrong?', forgetting that DS1 was just such a baby and I haven't done anything wrong at all, and neither have you smile. It will pass suprisingly quickly, his first 3m are a bit of a blur tbh, he is 7.5m now and although reflux still an issue, he is more easily distracted by things,and learning to sit unaided etc, so I can actually spend a little time with my poor neglected first born!

Kafri Sat 19-Jan-13 09:04:51

I absolutely give up!

He will not go to sleep once he wakes for his morning feed (7.30 today) and then it's just a downward spiral from there. He goes into meltdown and the whole day is spent trying to settle him as he gets more and more overtired!

I'm sitting here in tears at the thought of another day listening to his scream until he settle at tea time.

Jac1978 Sat 19-Jan-13 09:24:00

Do you have a vibrating bouncy chair? I used to find that helped often.

Iggly Sat 19-Jan-13 09:25:12

Have you got a sling?

Your DH can do it because he won't be as wound up. Babies can smell your fear grin do not take this personally.

Iggly Sat 19-Jan-13 09:29:52

Also what is the name of the milk? Lactose free milk might not help because lactose intolerance is rare in babies - its more likely to be intolerance to cows milk protein. The protein is not the same as lactose (lactose is the sugar). So I'd be checking that too.

WeAreSix Sat 19-Jan-13 09:42:34

I could be way off the mark and completely wrong, but....

He could have a headache type pain - for 2 reasons. Firstly, he was born very quickly which increases the pressure and power of labour ultimately giving his head a good squeeze. Secondly, after a lumbar puncture you can get a Postdural headache. It isn't uncommon. He may just need simple analgesia which your GP would have to prescribe. Personally I'd be getting a GP appointment and asking them to consider this.

This might seem a bit OTT but I'm a Triage Nurse - I often speak to patents with a crying baby and the length of time and pitch of the cry are part of our assessment. If baby is crying for 1+ hrs without stopping and particularly if its high pitched we'd be offering an appointment.

Like I say I might be way off the mark and certainly wouldn't want to come across as scare-mongering, but I would rather say it and be wrong than say nothing when there might be a solution.

Hope that comes across ok and makes sense I'm functioning on 3 hours sleep - I've got a teething 5 mo who was awake most of the night!

Kafri Sat 19-Jan-13 09:42:41

Yeah I've got a bouncy chair but he screams the minute he's put down! I've tried letting him cry fir a couple of mins but he does not stop and I don't like leaving babies to cry so won't leave him longer.

I got him to drift off while rocking him and kept it up a while after he nodded off but the minute I stop he wakes again. I can't physically stand rocking him ALL day!

Kafri Sat 19-Jan-13 09:44:26

Milk is SMA LF.

Angelik Sat 19-Jan-13 09:50:11

Oh god the memories came flooding back. Lots of excellent tips and you will find a configuration that suits you. My ds was the same. We used to put him down to sleep on his tummy, watch him like a hawk then once he'd gone into a deep sleep turn him over - worked a treat. We also ditched the Moses basket and popped him in his cot at the same time (7 weeks old) as it was a bit more roomy and allowed his arms to be next to his head when on his tummy. Once he could lift and turn his head i relaxed a little and then one morning when he was 3 months old i woke in a total flap realising he hadn't woken me at the usual very early time to find he'd rolled from back to front on his own and was happily snoozing. i confess until he was about 5 mnths and comfortably rolling around I didn't have the best sleep (waking constantly to check his breathing) but it was worth it as he was a settled, content, well rested baby. Btw he still sleeps on his tummy now aged nearly 3.

Iggly Sat 19-Jan-13 09:52:49

Oh yes WeAreSix talks sense, def think about the lumbar puncture. Ring NHS direct? Or your GP as they may have an out of hours service.

I'd also ask to try hypo allergenic milk which has been hydrolysed. Not lactose free. .

Kafri Sat 19-Jan-13 09:58:51

I think it's all jus t getting to me now

We can't go out anywhere - he screams in the car seat and his pram (was fine in them the first week we were home) so I now have cabin fever. Took him out yesterday and its sooo much effort trying to keep him somewhere near settled so he doesn't disturb others that it's not enjoyable to go out!

So far, come tea time/7pm I seem to have a different baby - he feeds well, then settles nicely and generally is settled til it all starts again early next morning. (Obv waking for feeds in that time)

WeAreSix Sat 19-Jan-13 10:00:28

Thank you iggly. It's really hard on a forum to judge what kind of advice to post so I generally avoid it! Some people can take offence to advice like I've posted so I really hope it is taken as it is intended to be!

I was a midwife for 8 years and after having a screaming ventouse baby myself, I routinely requested paeds to prescribe paracetamol for instrumental deliveries. I'm certain it helped!

WeAreSix Sat 19-Jan-13 10:01:58

kafri babies with sore heads are notoriously difficult in car seats - it must be the head or neck position, or maybe the vibration? The more you post the more I'm convinced...

Oh poor you sad Both my babies have been like this, DS2 is nearly a year and it a lot better since becoming mobile. He screamed in the pram, car seat, bouncy chair even in my arms its unforgiving and soul destroying but please don't feel bad. I used to just walk round the streets when DS1 was at school, even when he was asleep id walk/jog the fresh air kept me sane and got him sleeping.

I know a few people who have sworn by cranial osteopathy for their DC's too.

Please consider a proper sling. They really are miraculous things and your movement and heartbeat will help soothe

Also, agree with the cows milk protein intolerance over lactose, DS2 had a temporary CMPI and gluten intolerance after contracting a stomach bug.

I hope things improve soon for you. If you need to put baby down if it gets too hard, just do it and make a cuppa etc... Take 5. smile

BooCanary Sat 19-Jan-13 10:13:59

Hi op.
I had a screamy refluxy baby. Its such a nightmare, I really feel for you.

What worked best for us was getting baby to sleep by whatever means - if that means baby sleeping on you all day long then so be it, or if you have to go for 2 hr walks every afternoon. So much of the problem is tiredness IME. Don't worry about not getting anything done, or your dh going back to work. It won't be forever.

However, bearing in mind the lumbar puncture etc, I would also be double checking with doctor.

Kafri Sat 19-Jan-13 10:17:36

I'm really not going to take offence at anything! I just want to know my baby is ok

He's been backwards and forwards to the docs and hospital and I keep being told there's nothing wrong after prodding and poking him and time is the only thing that will help

He fell asleep on me about half hour back but is now wide awake again wriggling in pain in his tummy and straining to poo/pass wind. He is constipated and on lactulose at the min but these tummy thing have gone in fr longer than the constipation

It just upsets me watching him now, bit to mention the time I 'wasted' getting him to sleep fr all of 20 mins!

Kafri Sat 19-Jan-13 10:19:45

It's go to the point where when he's awake he's upset, unless he's held by someone standing up to bounce him on their shoulder, an when he asleep he starts with this tummy writhing and straining and wakes himself up.
Added to that having to be held 24 hours a day as he screams whenever he's put down.
This is absolutely no fun whatsoever!

RubyrooUK Sat 19-Jan-13 10:21:46

Oh Kafri, I had one like this. I never knew that other people ate meals, put their babies in cots or pushchairs because none of these things ever happened to me!

DS was particularly bad between 6-11pm from about 4-10 weeks. He screamed and the only thing that helped at all was a CD of white noise played extremely loud. DH would walk him up and down in the dark until he calmed down and then I'd feed him and he would settle better (for 45 minutes, being held by someone).

A sling also helped as he got a bit older and things like a bouncy vibrating chair were good for five minutes as I stuffed a sandwich in my mouth.

Don't feel at all like you are doing badly. My DS is now two and he's lovely but god, was he a difficult baby. You will get through this.

Iggly Sat 19-Jan-13 10:25:06

Push about the lumbar puncture headache. Ring NHS direct.

BertieBotts Sat 19-Jan-13 10:28:36

WeAreSix and Iggly seem to know what they're talking about.

Also definitely worth looking into Cranial Osteopathy - my friend had a constantly screaming baby and the CO helped massively. It did later turn out that he had multiple allergies, though.

WeAreSix Sat 19-Jan-13 10:37:38

kafri what county are you in?

If you think your baby is in pain - caused by constipation or head as I'm suggesting then please see a GP today. Don't ring NHS Direct, tell me where you are and I'll find out your OOH cover. Or ring your usual GP number they may have an answer phone message telling you who to call.

A prescription for infant paracetamol in the correct dose for your baby could make a massive difference to you both. You can make that difference today.

cravingcake Sat 19-Jan-13 10:42:39

I would agree with what WeAreSix and Iggly are saying. My DS was born with help of forceps and I noticed he wasn't turning his head one way after a few weeks. All the midwives, HV's and even doctors said nothing was wrong and just to encourage him to turn his head the other way using toys. I trusted my instinct that something was wrong and took him to a chiropractor and it turned out my DS had 3 neck vertebrae out of line, causing him discomfort (and flat head). It definitely would be worth having your DS checked over.

In the short term do you have a friend/family that could take him off your hands for an hour or two so you can rest? I remember the sleep deprivation well and it does make things so much harder but it does get easier and better.

Kafri, I am coming late to this, but wanted to send my sympathies.
Yes, this mothering lark IS hard; and more so for those of us who have been blessed with Screamers...

My DS1 is now almost 10; he screamed unless held for the first year of his life. We tried everything suggested on this thread and some other things; nothing made much of a difference. What helped, was time passing: the older and more independent he got, the more things improved. Even him being able to hold and move his head himself, seemed to make him less frustrated and panicky. He is a lovely and v academic boy now (my HV kept saying 'Oh yes, it's the bright ones that scream a lot' hmm and I would think in my head 'If he does not turn out to be a rocket scientist, I want my money back'), but still very dramatic, can screech in frustration and be in floods of tears at the least provocation. I now so recognise and understand a lot of his baby behaviour much better.
DS2 btw is only 1 year younger and from the word go, was so relaxed he was virtually horizontal confusedgrin.

What I am trying to say, of course you need to get your baby checked out to make sure there is no physical problem. But there may not be. Personalities are what the are from the very start.
For the record, cranial osteopathy did not make any difference except that he hated every session.

Here is what got me through it all:

- A sling. I never thought I'd have one, I am not a hippy-dippy wink mother, but it was an absolute life saver (his and mine)
- Getting out of the house
- Accepting a lovely neighbour's offer who came once a week and took the darling child away for an hour or so. There were weeks where this was the only chance I had to wash my hair etc.
- Co-sleeping - see sling. At the end of day, whatever worked to allow me to have some sleep is what I had to do.
- Not looking ahead too far. Just get through the next hour/day. Time will pass and babies grow up and eventually stop screaming.
- Hold him. Whatever the reason, he needs holding and he is communicating that the only way he knows how to. People how go on about the 'rod for your own back' can stick said rod where the sun don't shine grin.
- Chocolate.

I went on to have another 2, so people keep telling me it cannot have been THAT bad. I still shudder at the memory... And no, I did not have PND -compared to my other 3, DS1 was in a class of his own as far as screaming went. My premature 31 weeker with dreadful reflux cried less...

V best of luck.

Gosh, sorry about the epic post blush - I am clearly still not over looking after DS1....

The Fussy Baby Book seemed to describe my DS1 to a tee.

I just picked up on what you said about your DH being able to settle him better - this is described in the book too! Get your DH to have him upright on his chest and hum to him: a deep, low manly hum. It was like hypnotising my DS1. The second my DH stopped, he start wailing again, mind...

To quick solutions, so sorry.

ImpetuousImp Sat 19-Jan-13 15:24:55

Kafri, you're doing a brilliant job with your DS, please don't be disheartened.

Can I add my voice to WeAreSix and wewereherefirst about investigating pain relief for possible headache (infant calpol?) and seeing a cranial osteopath? My DS had similar problems as a baby, always awake, often screaming, constantly (and I do mean constantly) feeding, 'colicky' - it turned out that he had a lot of stomach tension after delivery with a true knot in his cord. The cranial osteopathy really helped, and was so gentle and relaxing that DS dropped off to sleep during the treatment! Please do give CO a go if you can but definitely speak to OOH GP too.

Keep up the great work, these early days and weeks are tough thanks

Kafri Sat 19-Jan-13 17:21:13

Right. First off, thank you so much everyone. I think if be going stir crazy without you!

Just hit back from ooh GP. He said nothing is wrong and he's crying to be rocked because I'm rocking him, and to be careful of bad habits.

I asked about pain relief, to which he replied 'how do you know he's j. Pain, I can't see any evidence of it' I tried explaining about the tummy pain overnight an him being tense and straining to pop/pass wind all the time but he just repeated what he said above!

Gave me a different thrush cream for his mouth - forgot to mention he had thrush in his mouth which doesn't want to go away. (We're in the second bottle of nystatin as I poured one over my bloody sofa-oops). got some daktarin gel now???

Asked in chemist when went to pick up gel and she said I couldn't buy anything pain relief wise for a four week old???

Seems to be settling a little now, which is quite normal - settles once we get to tea time for some reason.

He hasn't been to sleep all day. Dozed for literally minutes at various points today bug boy slept at all so I pretty much know over tiredness is playing its part here too!

Honestly-DH goes back to work on Thursday. What the hell will I do? No sleep at night as ds will only sleep on me (or DH but he needs his sleep for work) and I'm not very good at sleeping with him on me. I don't have an issue with it and wish I could sleep better but just can't seem to drop off. So no sleep all night and then up with ds screaming all day. Hmmm something doesn't add up here. Not sure what ill do to be honest.

Sling has arrived at my sisters. I just need to get over there to pick it up ASAP if I have my way. I don't think ds will like it as he'll be on my front rather than my shoulder but he'll have to get used to it as I need my hands for at least part of the day.

I'm sure ill had missed some answers to your questions in this reply, I'll have a re read and check

Please, keep your suggestions coming. I'm sooo grateful and a horrid as it sounds, I'm glad I'm not alone in this. It's good to know others have put up with a lot too.

Just out of interest. When does baby know 'mummy'. At the min he's just happy to be held by anyone as long as he's held. At what point does he know I'm his mummy.

Iggly Sat 19-Jan-13 17:31:39

He knows you now. Your voice and your smell tell him you are you.

Your GP sound shit quite frankly. Maybe you should video your baby for him. Also as for bad habits - your baby is 4 weeks old FFS. Of course he wants rocking, that's what they've been getting for the last 9 months inside you. He's only been in this world for 4 weeks FFS.

As for rocking him to sleep - can you carry on for 10-15 mins after he's gone to sleep then try sitting down and jiggly him a bit if he stirs?

The sling should help - might take some getting used to but it will.

I used to sit up on a bed, propped up with pillows at night with ds and would get some sleep (we did this for a long time!) and as he got older, I could slowly slide him next to me on his side (same with dd). Have you tried putting him on his tummy for naps (once he's asleep) in the day? And sit with him so you can keep an eye?

Also have you tried swaddling?

Kafri Sat 19-Jan-13 17:38:34

He starts to wake as soon as I put him down. If I leave him he wakes completely and screams so I start the whole process again. Swaddling, yes - he fights his way out. I wish he did like it, his startle is still rather severe so that wakes him up repeatedly.

Dr was crap, he wasn't my dr. All the surgeries in the town share ooh service and the drs work it on a rota so no idea where this dr was from but he wasn't the nicest I've ever seen.

Kafri Sat 19-Jan-13 17:50:56

Oh how wrong was I ? He's still going strong down there with DH. I'm upstairs getting a. Quick nap

RubyrooUK Sat 19-Jan-13 19:08:05

Kafri, I think your baby knows you now. And that's why only you or your DH will do. My DS went mental when other people held him at only a few days old.

My GP was crap as well when I went and told me that I should just put DS in a room and shut the door while I ate my dinner! shock Apparently it made his wife cry a lot because she hated it but all his children learnt who was thanks.

Do try the cranial osteopath. I did this as DS had a violent forceps delivery. But the cranial osteopath said he was not traumatised as far as he could tell and nothing was out of place. He said that perhaps DS was just a tricky newborn. That did put my mind at ease in a funny way that I wasn't missing something.

Do also try the white noise.

And let your DH help at night. Just because he is working, it doesn't mean he can't - unless he does something dangerous if he is tired, i suppose. When DS was a bit bigger, I did let DH sleep more because I was breastfeeding so he wasn't needed as much but in those early days, I needed him to pitch in just as much as me at night to survive. He was knackered but always understood that it was a joint effort to survive!

Willitberaaaaspberry Sat 19-Jan-13 21:58:28

This sounds so hard for you. I remember those early days when you are so worried about getting things right and because of exhaustion you take things personally. I think you're doing a great job, you've already tried so many things to make things better for your baby where some other people would already have given up and just left them to cry.
Another idea would be to try baby massage for constipation - it really helped for my dd with the added bonus that it would also send her off to sleep. I joined a class and learned some of the techniques but there are lots of videos on YouTube that might be useful. I hope you find something that works for you soon.

Kafri Sat 19-Jan-13 22:16:23

Will give you tube a go when I next get chance! I'm down on the waiting list for baby massage but got told he had to be six weeks and even then I have to get to the top of the waiting list. Perhaps they shoul have 2 classes running simeltaneously - one for people who want to take their baby along and one for those who NEED to lol. I'm sure ill get moaned at for that comment, it's just I am getting a little desperate now. I'm not saying those that want to take their baby along are any less valid, just that if baby massage will be the key for him, I'd rather get it started!

It was 7.30 when he finally settled and went to sleep and is still asleep now. Will be waking for a feed any time now onwards.
He was awake since 7.30 ish this morning til 7.30 tonight with a short 20 min nod at about 10 am and a couple of '5min dozes' throughout the day. I know this is far too long for him to be awake but he would not stop screaming or settle let alone relax enough to sleep!

It's DH shift now til 4.30. He's usually quite settled overnight-on us that is but the last thing I wanna do right now is start transition to Moses basket and risk unsettling the only settled time he has-poor boy. Will just go with it for now.

ivanapoo Sat 19-Jan-13 23:13:54

Can you get a relative/friend to hold him during his quiet time eg evenings once or twice a week so you and DH can both rest or at least have a break? Or get someone to come and stay with you for a few days? It sounds like you're in a rough patch at the moment and need more support.

I sympathise, my 4 week old DS screams a lot too and doesnt sleep much during the day although he will sometimes go down in his basket for a while. He also does the straining/groaning thing and is very noisy with it. At night he will sleep in his basket a bit but screams after feeds and needs an hour of settling which when he wants to feed every two hours is exhausting!

The sling can work - he usually hates it at first and screams but as I move around he stops and sleeps so you may need some patience. I'm going to try CO next as DS had ventouse.

Through exhaustion I slept with DS on me but I really felt uneasy about it at first. He's currently asleep on DH's chest (actually I can hear he's just woken up!).

DH went back to work this week and I tried to do everything myself in the nights which I very quickly realised is not realistic. Now on school nights he'll have 12ish to 6ish off perhaps with a bit of extra support if DS is really kicking off. That means he is having to get by on 6 hours sleep or so a night/day, but so am I (if I'm lucky) and frankly looking after a baby all day is probably more physically and mentally tiring than going to work for a lot of people!

ivanapoo Sat 19-Jan-13 23:19:24

Oh and in the basket we put him to sleep kind of on his side (propped up with rolled up cellular blanket). When DH leaves I bring the sheepskin from the basket onto our bed on DH's side and put DS on there with all pillows, divets etc out the way. He might not sleep but at least it's a bit easier to comfort him and I can stay lying down!

Kafri Sun 20-Jan-13 05:12:43

I've just come down to relieve DH so he can get some sleep. DS slept from 7.30 through til 2.30. Didn't wje for his 11 ocklock feed. Not surprised he was soooo tired.
I've come down with much apprehension to be honest. I'm waiting for it all to start again! Not a nice feeling but I'm guessing we'll just have to get through it.

Haven't Got anyone that could come and stay for a bit. My mum is local but she has no confidence with DS and it actually makes things worse as he takes him from me but doesn't do anything so I end up sitting saying things like 'you need to rock him/bounce him/sway him etc every five mins. She's been the same with my DSis baby too. When im there with her its not a break and there's no way I could walk away and leave her.

My mil is brilliant at offering to come help around the house with anything other than DS so no help available there.

All my friends work. The 1s without kids work long hours so only have weekends available and the 1s with kids obv have their own family stuff going on! I can get plenty of 'bits of support', like, here and there but nothing consistent.

ivanapoo Sun 20-Jan-13 07:30:00

Hmm not ideal then... Do you feel you could leave him with your mum during his sleep time? Ideally in another room far away so you can't hear him crying too loudly if he does wake. Or do you need to jiggle him while he sleeps too?

I didn't like leaving DS alone with anyone at first - as they didn't know how to comfort him, would do things I didn't want like put way too many blankets on him, hold him the "wrong" way etc but then I realised I needed an hour of sleep and that he would survive so left them to it. Still find it hard but am starting to appreciate a little extra break. My parents live 4 hours away so it's only occasional unfortunately.

Could your sis help out, even as a one off?

This stage won't be forever so even if the support is in dribs and drabs take what you can!

Iggly Sun 20-Jan-13 08:35:11

What about popping over to see a friend just for half an hour at a time.

Even though they might not understand the difficulty (although many of us hide just how hard it is), just having adult company really really helps. Don't hide away, get out and see people.

Kafri Sun 20-Jan-13 08:40:25

It's not that I won't leave him with anyone which I know is possibly what it sounds like. I happily left him with my sister for the day earlier in the week. It is genuinely that my mum is nowhere near confident enough.

It surprises me as she raised us alone after my dad passed away when I was young and she used to do everything but as we've grown up and moved out/she's got older (or some other reason I'm not sure of) she seeks reassurance for everything.
I also wouldn't want to take ds to get house as it is filthy. She doesn't like cleaning and has the attitude that there's only get and if she isn't bothered then it doesn't need doing. That's fine - it's her house. She can live how she likes but I don't want my little newborn there. Also, she has no baby 'stuff' so is need to pack up EVERYTHING if he were to go for a full day. I just don't think it would be hygienic for a baby so young. After all, why go to the trouble of sterilising stuff if I'm gonna leave him somewhere dirty. The other thing is she was a smoker-has given up now-but the smell still clings to everything! I hope in not sounding precious here! That's not my intention at all.

Kafri Sun 20-Jan-13 08:48:04

A friend called round to see us yesterday which was lovely.

What is 'social policy' on being out and about with an unsettled screaming baby? I can take him out in his pram for a walk but he wakes easily and quickly gets upset at the min so he would then scream the rest if the time we're out. Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to take him to the library or anything where I'd be scowled at fir making a noise!

I was at the docs the other day and he was screaming and a woman stopped me and said 'so you not think you should be stopping to feed him'? I was already tired/upset from having to take him back to dr again etc and she made me feel awful.

I don't think there is a social norm re being out and about with an easily unsettled baby - I remember it so well how flustered and self-conscious I felt when in public with my screaming offspring...
People will say daft stuff, usually well-meaning, but often without full engagement of the brain: "Oh, is he hungry?" "No, he is not, if it was as simple as feeding him to calm him, I'd've done it."
"He must be overtired." "Oh you don't say. If I knew how to get him to have a GOOD sleep, I'd do it."
"Does he need a nappy change?" "No, he does not. And if it was as simple as that I'd've frigging done it."
Not that I ever said anything like that in RL to kind people, but I frequently thought it...

How would you feel about going out with DS in a sling? IME most babies love a stretchy wrap, it is good for them, comfy for you and easy to use. You can put it on first thing in the morning when you get dressed and simply pop DS in and out as you need to. It is possible to BF with the baby in the sling; I only did it on a handful of occasions with DS4 when I had to be getting on with things and he was hungry.

Grrr at your Dr btw implying that he is a screamy baby because you have made him so angry. No, you are responding to his needs. I think most of us would be quite happy to leave a happily sleeping baby sleep and not 'bother' them by picking them up, holding them ALL THE TIME, rocking etc.

Re your mum not being confident around him, maybe she would cope better if you were not there? Would you leave him with her and pop round to the local shops for an hour?? Just so they can get to know each other?

I hope today is a good day for you all.

Kafri Sun 20-Jan-13 09:07:47

Another silky question... (I'm full of them)

Given the dr is adamant it's colic/reflux/doesn't seem to have a clue (delete as appropriate). The last 3 days he has screamed right from his morning feed, so around 7.30. Anyway, today I have (so far) managed to stave it off. He got uncomfortable after his feed and I did think 'here goes' but managed to get him to sleep (woo hoo). He still keeps groaning and tensing in his sleep so don't know how long it'll last.. Anyway, by getting him to sleep, am I simply putting off the colicky time or am I getting him to sleep through it (some). Hope that question makes some sense to you.

cravingcake Sun 20-Jan-13 09:26:36

Well done you for getting him to sleep. I would say you are helping him sleep through it, you know he desperately needs sleep so he (in theory) should be calmer when he wakes. Enjoy the 5 mins of quiet, make yourself a well deserved cuppa & rest.

Oh gosh, I don't know...
My take on that is that if he gets some sleep then he'll be able to deal better with, say, colic pain later on.
Medically speaking (I am a GP) there is not such thing as 'colic' in babies, or rather we have no idea what causes it or what is 'wrong' with babies who seem to have it a lot. Typically colic is a screaming baby from late afternoon/early evening onwards which may scream for hours, but can have an ok night/day until then.

Your DS sounds more unsettled a lot of the time which puts me off colic.
Most colic remedies/comfort milk IMVHO don't make much of a difference, but give parents/drs something to try until the magic 6 week/3 month mark is reached (with the exception of Colief in babies with lactose intolerance). Maybe that is me just being cynical, mind.

Does he sleep better if you lie next to him?
Does he sleep in the moving pram, but wakes up the very second the wheels stop turning?
Does he startle easily? Flinging arms wide, kind of tremors a bit, then screams?
All that would suggest a 'fussy baby' to me, or 'high need baby', or 'high intensity baby'. You can google all those phrases and find out more about it.

Is he thriving/gaining wt? Are his poos 'normal' milk poos?
If so, it is unlikely that there is much wrong with his digestion.

Kafri Sun 20-Jan-13 09:37:48

He's gained weight really well since birth. His poos were normal til he went on gaviscon and got constipated. That seems to be easing now. Since about a week old however he has a period in the morning, usually between about 5 and 8 where he really groans, cries out, tenses and really strains to poo/pass wind. At first I thought it was constipation but 12 hours later when he managed to poo it was normal. This was befits the gaviscon even started let alone caused constipation??? He doesn't sleep at all if he's not on someone!!
Dozes in pram and car seat until you stop - stuck in traffic/traffic lights/stop in town to speak to someone or look at anything. The min u stop with him he wakes and screams. What's that about?? He didn't do that until he got to 2 weeks. First 2 weeks he slept soundly in his car seat. No such luck now. He NEVER sleeps soundly. It's good to have another GPS opinion (albeit not officially)x

Kafri Sun 20-Jan-13 09:40:15

Well, he's now waking and fussing. Squirming about mall over me as if in pain/uncomfortable. Grunting and squeaking too

He might just be one of those overly-alert babies, not necessarily in pain, just struggling coming to terms with the new environment he finds himself in: no longer always same temperature, the sounds of your breathing/voice/heartbeat/bowelsounds etc all around him all the time.
Bowels can need some time to go from digesting v little (some amniotic fluid and the odd cell) to having to cope with milk feeds.

It is very good that you have had him checked out in RL, because I am certainly not offereing any kind of diagnosis here grin <disclaimer>.

With DS1 I used to often go through amber traffic ligths because there was no way I was going to stop the car if I did not absolutely HAVE to as he would instantly go full throttle.
I actually never took him with car seat out of the car, the car seat just stayed in the car because he never, ever just peacefully sat/slept in the the seat like other babies do.

A lot of babies are v quiet for the first few days/couple of weeks and then 'wake up'. DS4 who is now almost 3 was rather hard work too, but in the first 2 weeks I though I had it cracked as he only every fed or slept. In his pram in our rather noisy kitchen. He did not do it again after 2 weeks...

I keep recommending the 'Sleeping Lion' position for unsettled/sore tummy babies: baby facedown on your forarm with his face near the crook of your arm and legs dangling either side. I used to have him on my left arm which left my R free to do stuff.

Kafri Sun 20-Jan-13 15:19:02

Another of my silly questions...

What's the best way to entertain him?

Right, today so far he ha slept restlessness between his 8am and 11am feed then was awake between his 11am and 2pm and now awake after his 2pm feed. So I try to entertain him with his swing/bouncy chair/playmat etc which is already difficult as he dislikes being out down (like I've not already told you that 1000 times)
So, really while he's been awake, it's A bit like walking on eggshells waiting for the screaming to start as he's wide awake but still very young therefore not really interested in playing yet. He showed a bit if interest in a rattle bunny teddy thing but its always a fleeting interest so trying to entertain him due hours to try to avoid the screaming is proving difficult.

Any suggestions? Oh and how many hours really 'should' he be awake at this stage? I know there's not a set number but on average what should I he looking at?

Omg this is a whole different ball game to the kids I support at work!

BertieBotts Sun 20-Jan-13 15:25:33

You can't really entertain a 4 week old smile If you have a sling then pop him in the sling and go about your daily business - he'll find that interesting enough - all those sounds, smells, colours/lights etc. Mainly they want to be close to you for reassurance.

Awake times - I can't remember but probably not hours. It's more like 45 mins - an hour at first between each sleep if that makes sense.

Kafri Sun 20-Jan-13 15:50:21

Sling arrived at my sisters yesterday so need to pick it up. :-)

As fir 45 mins - 1 hour. Omg I would love to e able to get him to sleep but he's having none of it. I'm just grateful thy today (so far) we've only had threatened screaming rather than the last 3 days of screaming from dawn til dusk NON STOP!

I still think the problem with his sleeping is the way he wakes himself squirming and squealing, seemingly to do with his tummy/bowels?? It's like he CAN'T get I a restless sleep as these 'pains' come along and disturb?? I really don't know anymore - I must sound totally bonkers. He's been checked by a doc who says he's perfectly healthy but I really don't know what all tho straining/tensing/squealing/squirming lark is about.

So far my plan of attack for DH going back I work, if things are still tho bad, is

I sleep from 7/8 pm thru to 1am while DH looks after DS
I get up at 1am so DH can get some sleep before work
Then DH out at work between 8 and 6
I have baby from 1am thru to 6pm (dozing with him if I get the opportunity)
DH takes baby when he come home so I can get a quick tea before going back to bed at 7ish to do it all again.

How does that sound to you guys? Feasible or madness?

Forgetfulmog Sun 20-Jan-13 18:16:00

Sounds feasible but tbh I suspect you will find that he becomes much more settled in the sling. Have you got any fan noise downloaded on your phone? Fwiw my dd settles in the sling as long as the fan noise is playing. Do you have an iPhone?

legalalien Sun 20-Jan-13 21:35:52

Kafri - he sounds just like my ds was. Hyper alert, screamy, high maintenance, and definitely in need of entertainment. He's now 8 and while a difficult baby, easyish toddler years), will try and think back and drop you a line with what worked for me. Don't suppose you're in London - if so happy to buy you a coffee and lend a hand. I had no support network and it was hard.

Kafri Sun 20-Jan-13 22:38:26

Thanks everyone. I cannot thank you enough for all your support. Certainly don't know how I'd be managing without your answers and suggestions.

Legalalien - yes pls, get thinking!! Lol. Not in London, though brew would have been lovely. Well, as lovely as it can be with a screaming newborn in tow! I'm up north near Manc!

I'm gutted I can't get out and about with ds properly cos of the screaming. Went for coffee with sis the other day and its not enjoyable really as I have to work so hard to keep ds as settled as poss so he's not disturbing others too much. Lets face it-they dont want their peaceful coffee ruined by my screaming baby. A walk out in the pram is the best I can get and even then he screams

Went to pick sling up tonight so gonna give it a go tomorrow. He's still awake now but with DH so I can get some sleep. DH does the 10-4 shift then I do 4-10 while he sleeps.

Forgetfulmog - yeah have iPhone. Have downloaded a couple of white noise apps. The Hoover occasionally works but that's about it. It's a real test for me as I have a real aversion to white noise - I have NEVER hoovered our house as I can't stand the noise. (DH does it). Same with a drill etc

I suspect his silent reflux has started up again. He was on gaviscon but it bunged him up and dr said to stop it. Tbf I didn't think it was doing anything but if the last 4 days are the result of not having it then it must have been doing something! He wasn't brilliant while on it but he wasn't screaming 12 hours a day. Also, after feeds today he's been doing more of the squirming about, crying out seemingly in pain, arching his back to the point he's nearly thrown himself backwards off my shoulder.

Panicked first time mum I may be but I just CAN'T buy that this is typical newborn stuff.

Right, see your doc again and ask for Ranitidine or Omeprazole for presumed reflux - Gaviscon thickens feeds, in theory making it harder to reflux back up; Ranitidine and Omeprazole reduce acid production in the first place, so can be much more effective much more quckly.
Give small feeds, more frequently if that's what he demands.
Have you looked at shoosh-patting? Or pat-shoohsing? Sorry, I'll look it up for you.

If that works - lovely smile.

If not: sling. What kind have you got? Stretchy wrap is a really good thing for panicky, twitchy babies who find it hard to settle/stay settled.

Re entertainment: I'd agree, a young baby like that does not need entertainment beyond being with you when you go about your business. Be careful not to overstimulate him. Have a comfotable place somewhere (bed/sofa/comfy chair with footstool) where you can feed/wind/hold baby for hours on end if needed, so have drink/snack/laptop/remote controls handy.
My such station was so well organised in the end that the only thing that forced me up was the need for the loo...

What I would like to know is why babies prefer to be rocked when you are standing up?? How on earth do they know you are sitting and not standing and start screaming again?! I used to be so used to swaying and rocking that I was known to do it when standing, say, at a red pedestrian light waiting for it to change when DS was NOT with me - I must have looked a right loon grin.

Ok, I am off to look for that shooshing/patting thing, give me a mo

Dr Carp as introduced by Dr Phil grin

I also like and agree with the 4th trimester theory: not all babies are ready to be born when they are...

Just another thought before I go to bed: some refluxy babies will only ever settle on their fronts. I know this is against current SIDS advice, but bear in mind that the 'back to sleep' advice is only ONE of many things advised to lower the risk of SIDS. Premature babies routinely get put on their stomachs to aid digestion.

Fingers crossed for tonight.

Forgetfulmog Sun 20-Jan-13 23:03:48

Yeah definitely sounds like reflux. It may be worth speaking to your Gp again & asking for a prescription for ranitidine - it neutralises the acid so your LO won't be in pain from it. Ill be honest & suggest you go back to trying the gaviscon - just give extra lukewarm boiled water for the constipation & gripe water is also brilliant for helping babies to "go". What you've described is pretty normal newborn stuff fit babies with reflux.

Oh & as for the white noise - my dd hates white noise but loves fan noise (it is different!). The app I've got is Baby Sleep Lite Free - just turn the vol up to max & hold it by Dcs ear

ivanapoo Sun 20-Jan-13 23:04:31

Kafri if it's any reassurance my DS does the squirmy groany shouty grimace-in-pain thing too, all the time - even while he seems to be asleep. It's horrible to watch and hear as he seems to be hurting so much sad

He is also sick a lot, sometimes hours after feeds. GP and HV don't seem to want to know so I am just telling myself it's colic, whatever that is, and it will pass. I have wondered if it is reflux though so am interested to hear that your DS was diagnosed with that.

Kafri Sun 20-Jan-13 23:04:39

I agree with the standing/sitting thing. 4 weeks old but he bloody knows if I'm not standing and he certainly lets me know he knows!

I'm ringing the doc as soon as they open. I'm sure my GP is as sick of me as you guys must be now!

Another (yes another) silly question. What is it that's made him so twitchy/panicky/unable to settle or stay settled? I'd if something I did whole pg or since he's been born or is it just par fir the course fir done babies?

Kafri Sun 20-Jan-13 23:05:26

Grrr, iPhone spellcheck!

Par for the course for some babies??

"What is it that's made him so twitchy/panicky/unable to settle or stay settled? I'd if something I did whole pg or since he's been born or is it just par fir the course fir done babies?"

You might never know.
It may well be reflux.
Those who find CO helpful will say it was 'birth trauma' (I don't think your delivery was that fast btw, and llike I said CO did not work for us).
Genes? (I blame DH wink)
Phase of the moon?
Frustration at his own helpflessness? Sign of superior intelligence as my HV kept suggesting shockhmm??

What it is NOT, is anything you did or didn't do during pregnancy - honestly, it isn't.

legalalien Mon 21-Jan-13 07:09:00

I'm back!!!

And having thought about it, i don't have a magic solution. I was a zombie for about a year! DS is very bright and quite intense personality wise, and i really think it was that.

More helpfully - agree with pacific dogwood's suggestions, i only came across dr karp when ds was about three months - and the swaddling - in a stretchy wool blanket, the sshing and the putting the baby on its tummy on your forearm and sort of swinging it from side to side, really helped a lot.

From an early age ds was really interested in the black and white picture books that they make for babies. Anything to keep his attention!

I also had an amby nature's nest thing, which he would deign to spend night time in provided i stayed nearby (i think there's a strong "needing to make sure mum is here at all times" thing at work). I found that by parking it next tomthe bed, putting my hand in the cot and gently bouncing it i could get something almost approximating sleep while ds snoozed on and off. He is 8 now and still a restless sleeper. Mind you, so am I!

Kafri Wed 23-Jan-13 06:38:02

Was referred to children's clinic yesterday and saw a lovely dr. He's changed ds milk again - to aptamil pepti. It's cows milk protein free rather than lactose free. Said he does have reflux and tho milk may solve it. I have to call in thurs with an update and if he's still not good dr will it him on meds to treat it. He said the milk may? be the cause it and this new milk may solve the problem easily.

He then said that if the meds don't work, ds can be admitted for tests to work out the problem further.

Ds was on fine form for the appointment. Was screwed up tightly in a ball and screamed inconsolably so they got to see a taste of what he's like at home.
I'm just happy they're finally believing that in not just a panicky mum and helping out. It's just a shame ds has had to become sooooo unsettled ALL the time for them to believe me.x

Iggly Wed 23-Jan-13 07:08:30

Glad to hear you've had some progress with the doctors kafri. Fingers crossed this helps!

Kafri Wed 23-Jan-13 07:29:53

Thank you iggly.

Just wondering. Ds is still only sleeping on us and wakes easily when he starts wriggling /squirming.

My bro (and offers) is on my back saying I need to work on getting him to sleep on his own. My friend spent over two hours yesterday trying to get him to settle in his bouncy chair. She eventually managed it but it was only a half hour nap!

I think that if he's feeling rubbish, this will be adding to him wanting to be near me and DH along with the fact that in too tired ATM to spend so long settling him for the sake of a half hour snooze.

I think now is the wrong time to start getting him down to sleep and the time will come once he's more settled and actually able to go down on his back in comfort. I don't buy into this 'rod for your own back' thing at only 4/5 weeks.

Even the dr yesterday said we'd struggle to get him down yet as he is uncomfybon his back and also while feeling ill will want mummy!

Am I deluded?

BertieBotts Wed 23-Jan-13 08:40:23

No. Your brother is deluded! Your baby is clearly very distressed and it's just adding more stress to try and get him sleeping on his own yet.

I co slept for 2 years and DS went happily into his own bed when I was ready smile don't sweat it. I can't believe your friend spent two hours trying to settle him shock I'd have told her to sod off and leave my baby alone!

Forgetfulmog Wed 23-Jan-13 09:46:37

Oh god I get told that along with "you're making a rod for your own back", blah blah blah. Ignore them. Your baby your rules. Besides which it's not the be all and end all if your baby doesn't settle on his own yet - he's still so young & if he's in pain of course he'll want to be cuddled. My dd is nearly 5 months & I've had her sleeping on me the last few nights as her belly has been troubling her, it's no biggy. I'm glad you're getting somewhere with the Gp x

Iggly Wed 23-Jan-13 09:52:09

Tell your brothers and others to bog off.

Easy babies are easy to teach and I wouldn't even bother at this age anyway.

Babies which are unsettled are not because they need you more.

It can wait until he's much older and happier.

Sleep is much more important than how they get there at this tiny age.

Kafri Wed 23-Jan-13 13:28:13

Thank you (again) lovely ladies. It's nice to have support and answers to questions without feeling like I'm being judged for being new to all this and not knowing what I'm doing all the time.x

zcos Wed 23-Jan-13 15:49:39

you have my sympathy too - think with babies its luck of the draw. thought I would post to add my dd always settles better with DH or my MIL and only seemed to want me for milk which was really upsetting I would even think my baby hated me at times... but her smiling when she sees me recently has made that melt away! this MN is amazing though isn't it so much support! loving it!

zcos Wed 23-Jan-13 15:56:55

oh and also I was going to try to get my dd to sleep on her own let her cry for a bit and preservere like some books and sleep guidance tells you but then read some Isis research that says babies stop crying after a week or so because they give up but levels of stress hormones are still as high!

Oh I hope the new milk is working.
IMVHO you should do what you are comfortable doing wrt to how/where your baby sleeps. I love 'your baby, your rules' grin.
You also have to do whatever it takes to survive ie ensure that you and him get enough rest/sleep to carry on if that means he sleeps on your chest or you co-sleep, so be it.
Dr Sears on safe co-sleeping
Kellymom on bedsharing

Rods, back - prrrp <<blows a raspberry>>

Kafri Wed 23-Jan-13 22:37:35

I'm off again with my random question...

New milk seems to have made some difference. Defo been more chilled today. No rolling into a ball and screaming that much he looks like a tomato!! Even managed a short trip in the car I the supermarket and only started screaming as we stopped at the chemist or me to order his milk. He defo doesn't like to be 'still'. Does this mean anything?

And, he seems very hungry on this milk. Sometimes he 'just' had his 6oz bottle. Had to put it up to 6 when he started the LF milk as he was hungrier but read that was quite normal.
At hi 11 o'clock feed he got upset on finishing his bottle and I ended up giving him 2oz more then DH gave him his 7oclock feed this eve and he got really upset after finishing it and in the next hour had another 5 oz. surely that can't be right?? I know the mw said fee on demand when I was in Hosp but I took this to mean if he wante to feed every hour, let him. Every 2, let him etc. he kept it all down and is now sleeping soundly on DH. I could hear him screaming when DH finished his initial feed and there was defo no settling him.

Iggly Thu 24-Jan-13 06:49:18

Yes normal he doesn't like being still. My dd hated her carseat until I could take the newborn insert away as its not very comfortable - sort of bends them at the tummy. Not nice especially when you've got tummy issues. Moving and the noise of the car distracts them.

As for the milk - perhaps he's having a growth spurt? Again, normal! Just feed him at his pace and see how he is. If he wants more, feed him (could try a dummy first as he might want to suck for comfort)

Kafri Thu 24-Jan-13 07:49:16

I keep trying a dummy but so far he's really not interested. At best he sucks fir a few seconds, at worse he screams as soon as it goes anywhere near his mouth. I kinda wish he would take one really as it might help his tummy/digestion but not a chance so far!

MrsHoarder Thu 24-Jan-13 08:29:55

Completely normal to hate being still. I used to walk miles with DS in his pram, and generally if he was screaming get a sympathetic smile.

Now he's a happy busy 8mo. But the first 2-3 months were hell. Normal colic, starting in the afternoons. We have an ikea "bouncy armchair" that we'd sit in and hold him for hours. And I'd spend much of the day with him asleep on my lap.

It will pass.

Kafri Thu 24-Jan-13 09:37:53

I'm glad u mentioned about the sympathetic smile when he cried. That's what worries me. It upset me when someone commented to me in the docs about him crying. They told me I should stop to feed him rather than carry on my business. I just wanted to get him home as quick as I could and I've not really braved going out much since.
I feel like I can't go anywhere other than a walk and can't even do that at the minute as my estate is a sheet of ice.

Iggly Thu 24-Jan-13 09:39:57

Try different dummies. My dd loved the nuk ones (only available in my local chemist) and ds liked the mam ones. Also giving them after a feed or in the brief time when they were happy and awake helped. Or when I was walking them in the sling and they were screaming with tiredness I'd put the dummy in. Happy days not

Forgetfulmog Thu 24-Jan-13 11:17:40

Mam dummies are good too & all babies try spitting them out at first, but if you can persevere they are a godsend

DS1 was known as the 'Movement Detector' - the v second pram/car stook still he screamed, so yes, I think that's fairly common in fraught babies.

Dummies - of my 4 DS1 was a dummy addict, DS2 (precious preemie) never sucked anything hmm other than breast/bottle, DS3 could take dummy or leave it, DS4 liked it, but stopped abruptly at 1 year old. They are all different.
I'd keep trying. Try touching the side of his mouth/cheek and see if he will 'root' for it. Wiggle it a couple of times in his mouth which usually makes them suck a few times so he gets the hang of it. Does whatever make of teat you are using on your bottles also make dummies? That might be worth a try.

If he does have a cow's milk protein allergy, then the new milk should help really quite quickly. It sounds positive so far...

I remember the frantic urge to get home with my screaming baby sooooo well, it's not nice and v stressful, so poor you!

Kafri Thu 24-Jan-13 19:24:29

Jeepers what a day!

Been up with him since 1 so DH could get sleep for work. He woke at 6, started screaming and is still going strong now.
OMG that boy can scream! I feel so sorry for him - think colic is defo playing its part here bug it's getting progressively worse each time these days come round. Today was the worst yet. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING will comfort him. I have honestly tried everything!

Apparrantly colic peaks at 6 weeks?? - I bloody hope this is true. I'm not looking forward to finding out how this can get any worse as he's only 5 weeks. We've gotta be over the hill soon, I can't take much more, especially on my own when DH is at work!

zcos Thu 24-Jan-13 21:38:34

Poor thing you and baby hope he has stopped now for you thanks

Kafri Fri 25-Jan-13 02:05:08

He finally settle for DH at 10pm I was long in bed by then as I gave to be up at 1am with him to let DH get sleep.

Back ip with him now and in playing the waiting game for it all to start again. Got another paeds appt today so just got to get to lunch time.

I suspect ds has a sore throat aswell. He's very croaky with his breathing in his sleep tonight so I'm sure this isn't helping matters.

I honestly didn't realise colic could be this bad, or over such a prolonged period of time. Poor baba - 12 hours is a long day fur him.

Did work out that the Hoover seems to sooth but can't realistically leave my Hoover on for 12 hours a day, can I? It's a good job I have a dyson with the 5 year warranty!

Iggly Fri 25-Jan-13 06:33:57

Get white noise - I got a free app on my phone and on an iPod too. Worked a treat along with a dark room and cuddling.

Kafri Fri 25-Jan-13 06:50:12

Lol, I thought I was 1 steo ahead if him yesterday. Turned Hoover on, he liked. Thought YES finally summat that helps. Downloaded app with white noise. NOT A CHANCE. ONLY THE REAL DEAL WILL DO. little bugger!!

One day this will all be a distant memory and I'm sure ill smile about it when I remember. For now, tears will have to do!!x

Iggly Fri 25-Jan-13 07:00:12

There are other noises tooylu can get like lawn mower, the ocean... And it has to be on really really loud (plus in the dark).

Kafri Sat 26-Jan-13 08:47:57

Aarghhhh! What is it with people??

DH came home from work yesterday saying his colleague had said DS should be sleeping on his own by now. This is after meeting him once at 2 weeks old for all of five mins and she knows nothing of all the trouble we've been having. She's told DH to go and buy me gina fords happy baby book to help me.

I may not be the most confident mum at the min after all the issues we've had but if there's one area I am confident on its asking for help when I need it. I've had questions and I've asked you guys and mum friends on RL.

DH got told to tell her to come and spend a night with us and see if its as simple as 'just pop him down fir the night'

I asked DH why he felt the need to listen to everyone bar me about how to raise our child. I also asked him if he really thought I was sitting up at stupid o'clock merely for the fun of it.

Why do people feel the need to try to butt in? It may not be ideal that I can't put him down atm but, well, that's how it is for now. It's far easier for me to just accepts am that than fight it and it doesn't help when people try to say in doing it wrong.

If its not strangers in the docs it's my brother, if its not my brother it's DH colleagues.

Forgetfulmog Sat 26-Jan-13 09:11:13

Just go tell everyone (mentally) to just fuck off & then fuck off some more.

Fucking people with their fucking unwanted fucking opinions.

Sorry for the swearing btw

Tell everybody to get lost with their unasked-for opinions.
Or to take DS and bring him back 'fixed' with all their wonderful ideas... wink.

I know babies/mothers GF worked wonderfully well for, and good on them.
However, for me and my baby it would have been the end of us - I did not get past the first chapter.
I have a friend who burned her copy of CLB on a brazier in the backgarden after she almost lost the plot with trying to stick to a routine with her v fractious DD.

So, you just do what you need to to get through this, and what feels right.
None of know what we are doing really. People are always surprised when I say that nothing in my training and experience as a dr had prepared me for what looking after my own children would be like.

It will get better.
It will end.
You have to find the strength to keep going in the meantime.
If you tried a sling yet?

I have an Amby baby next going if you are at all interested to try?? It was not the solution I had hoped for for us, but certainly looked v cose (I would have liked to sleep in it grin)...

Iggly Sat 26-Jan-13 12:35:48

Hahahaha colleagues/others and their opinions eh?

If I were your DH's colleague I would understand how things were OP. so it just happens that this particular person either a) has no children b) has easy babies or c) can't remember and is just saying what she thinks she should've done

I'm telling you that every man and his dog will have an opinion. They an shove them.

It is so so hard especially when you've got it harder. I remember feeling ashamed at some points because ds who wouldn't settle whereas my friends had babies who were napping in their cots from 6 weeks. Ds slept on me or DH for naps until he was 6-9 months. But we got there in the end and now he naps happily in his bed, sleeps in his bed (he's 3) unlike many of his peers who end up in their parents bed. He's a happy chappy and while at the time we thought we were doing something wrong or couldn't work out what to do, it passed and got better.

zcos Sat 26-Jan-13 16:45:30

Aw it wouldn't be so bad if your dh was recounting what they said as opposed to thinking that a stranger (to you and baby) might have a solution!! I'm sure she was just trying to be helpful though but it provably doesn't make you feel better to think that??
I think even if you had a 'perfect' baby you would still be handed advice by people!

Kafri Sat 26-Jan-13 21:43:02

EVERY time I think I've sussed out how to survive this he changes something. Bloody hell!
Up to now it's the daytimes that have been hell and he sleeps fairly well. He's noisy in his sleep and groans a but as if in discomfort but sleeps (albeit on DH and I)

Well today he has 'simmered' all day and now it's come. Looks like it'll be a long night ahead. One of us is always awake with him anyway as he will only sleep on us and I can't seem to settle well enough to get any sleep with him even tho I know loads of people do it safely.

I must have done something awful in a previous life! I really must!

Iggly Sat 26-Jan-13 21:56:49

Oh please don't say that (although I did). Take each day as it comes. Get out of the house every day. Take all the support you can and ignore any that doesn't help.

I found myself getting increasingly isolated with ds as he was so so hard as a baby. Low point was him not sleeping until 5am shock

But we got through it. And you will too, I promise.

You poor thing.
I am quite sure this is not bad karma catching up with you.

I used to say that I live life like an alcoholic "a day at a time", sometimes it was more an hour at a time. Don't look ahead, don't think 'when is this going to get better?' or 'I cannot do this anymore'.

I second/third getting out of the house, even if it is just for a long walk with the pram.
And don't just accept offered help, ask for help - people who have only had easy babies don't have the first clue just how hard it can be. I remember my (lovely, v experienced) HV saying when DS1 was 3 weeks old and I was on my knees "Don't worry, he'll turn the corner around 6 weeks" (he didn't!), but all I could hear was "Another 3 weeks of this hell". Her well-meaning remark Did Not Help.

Time passing did. Eventually.
Abovemention neighbour who took him off me once a week helped a lot.
Chocolate and daytime TV helped blush
And kinda submitting to the fact that this was my life just now helped as well after a while. Once I had said goodbye to the notion that I could take my baby in his pram to the park and sit in the sunshine while he slept reading a magazine and having a posh coffee, it was less souldestroying to bear.

I hope you find some comfort from the stories of others who have been through similar and don't find it even more despressing when we recount our stories?

Best of luck for today.

Kafri Sun 27-Jan-13 20:26:37

Hearing other people's tales has really helped me survive the last few weeks. ESP now people in RL are now thinking along the lines of its just me being soft about putting him down to sleep They were sympathetic at first bug now think I'm just choosing to hold him all the time.

Glad the snow has cleared so at least I can get out for a walk, even if he's screaming. Might not be able to NGO and have a relaxing coffee with a friend but can blow the cobwebs away.

It's card now DH is back at work. This 1am - 7pm can't last too much longer. The 1am til DH gets up for when is the worst bit. Proper graveyard shift. And then not being able to nap in the day as ds doesn't sleep

Fingers crossed we see improvements soon! He'll be six weeks on Thursday!

Kafri Tue 29-Jan-13 10:52:03

So just out of interest..

What did/do you guys do when you've tried everything and dc is still screaming. I'm all out of tricks now. Keep trying them over but nothing is working for more than a minute or two!

I just don't know what to do/try now!

Iggly Tue 29-Jan-13 12:07:10

Stick to one thing for ten minutes. If it doesn't work, pop in the sling and go for a walk. I did a lot of walking!

Kafri Tue 29-Jan-13 12:09:25

His new milk and ranitidine seems to have solved the arching back/pain/discomfort etc and he's generally not as angry now but he cries CONSTANTLY. if he's awake (which si far more than should be, cannot get him to sleep in the day and if I do it's only with the Hoover and as soon as its turned off his eyes are wide open), he's unhappy. Just cries and cries and nothing stops it. Whatever I try, rocking, bouncing, swaying, sitting down, sling doing jobs - he just cries. Why is he so unhappy? I manage about between 10 and 30 mins a day where he's not crying and I might get the odd smile which is beautiful but.

If I put him down while I make a sandwich / run the loo / get some washing etc he's in meltdown and DOES NOT STOP. I cannot have hold of him every waking hour but can't cope with this screaming for much longer either.

How can I be such a crap mother?
I've always been really good with kids and couldn't wait to have my own. Was absolutely devastated when it turned out I might not have been able to so was OVERJOYED when the IVF worked for us. I just do not know what I'm doing wrong to make his this unhappy.

He has pretty much everything a newborn could want - swing, bouncy chair, play mat, play nest, different toys, books, and I couldn't possibly love him any more thn I do but nothing works. I know he's too young for a lot of his stuff but really I have never yet heard a baby cry as much as he does. In the rare time he's not crying, he's bubbling so to speak and you know it's not far off...

HELP please, I'm losing my marbles!

Kafri Tue 29-Jan-13 12:10:45

Thanks iggly, honestly the sling des not work. It's lie the car - if I'm lucky he may drop off while I'm walking but the min I stop - ping! Wide awake nd crying again.

Iggly Tue 29-Jan-13 12:19:46

The walking is to clear your head, not for him to sleep. Go and walk along a busy road, tap his bum and give him a dummy. Make sure he's not too hot - as that might be why he doesn't like it.

Keep the Hoover on for an hour to make sure he sleeps for a long time, don't turn it off before. You're aiming to make him get some chunks of sleep.

I used to have to spend a few days making sure ds got naps. So put him down for a nap 30 mins after he's woken up. Seems ridiculous but try it. Get up, get ready, feed him, dress, stick in sling and go for a walk. Pack your bag the night before. Keep walking and walking along busy roads as the noise will help him. Do the same later in the day but a bit longer so 45 mins after he wakes, he should be in the sling already and out you go.

You are not a crap mother. You are not.

Kafri Tue 29-Jan-13 15:27:06

You must be tearing your hair out with me by now iggly but is it really 'normal' for some babies to cry endlessly? Like literally endlessly. He is seriously never happy fir longer than a few mins here and there.

Is there a point where I should expect this to subside bloke I know you can't say fm for definite but is there a general point where these cry a lot babies tend to stop?x

Kafri Tue 29-Jan-13 15:27:51

Bloke = like (silly iPhone spellcheck)

MrsHoarder Tue 29-Jan-13 16:35:54

It starts reducing about 6 weeks, and we'd definitely got the hang of things by 3 months.

I second the walking too. I used to walk underneath the motorway or along the seawall so that DS was crying outside. Also good white noise to lull him to sleep.

Iggly Tue 29-Jan-13 17:37:01

He's massively overtired, he'll be picking up on your stress so of course he's crying a lot.

Keep him close to you - ok you'll need to pop him down sometimes but keep him in the sling as muh as possible as he'll calm down quicker. What kind of sling is it?

Kafri Tue 29-Jan-13 19:04:21

It's a front pack one where he's upright against my chest. Will give it a go tomorrow.

Iggly Tue 29-Jan-13 19:19:10

Do you know the name? Some are better than others

BertieBotts Tue 29-Jan-13 19:50:16

The crying is supposed to peak at 6 weeks, if that's any help at all. If it's colic that's supposed to end completely by 3 months too although again all babies are different. I hope it abates for you soon!

BertieBotts Tue 29-Jan-13 19:52:33

OP there's a high needs baby support group somewhere on here... I'll try and find it for you. Also a group on facebook called "Duracell Bunny Babies".

BertieBotts Tue 29-Jan-13 19:58:52

High Needs Baby Support Thread

Duracell Bunny Baby article (original concept) - facebook group link is in comments of this article I think.

Also Dr. Sears is well known for his theory/writings about "high needs" babies - google "Sears High Needs" and there's also a book (as if you have time for reading!) called The Fussy Baby Book which might help to reassure you you're not alone. Perhaps you could download it as an audiobook and listen through headphones to drown out the crying...? grin

Kafri Tue 29-Jan-13 20:37:27

It's a bruin baby sling I've got. Sis ordered it online for me.

Thanks for the links, will take a look. I bought the fussy baby book but you're right, never get time to read!! Will have a look at audio options fir when I'm out on mammoth treks.

TheFallenNinja Tue 29-Jan-13 20:44:45

We found that in our attempts to try everything to establish a routine we were in fact extremely efficiently creating a different thing every night.

I know everyone will tell you that it will get better, and it will, we found that simplifying as far as possible and sticking to the same thing paid off very quickly.

Good luck. smile

I've found the Fussy Baby Book v helpful to reassure me that I was not alone and not a crap mother - as you are NOT.

Yes, most babies will settle down around the 6 week mark, however some don't.
Many more babies become happier in themselves around 3 months, but some don't.
I think mothers who look after these babies and don't smother them are better, or certainly, more tested mothers. We should all get a medal tbh.

Personally, I found DS1 calmed down a little bit with each milestone that made him more independent: being able to hold his head, being able to sit, abdo to move, able to walk all helped. So, yes, he screamed every waking minute for a year - I might exaggarate, but only slightly.

I'd really, really recommend a stretchy wrap (Moby or Sleepy Wrap) to you. You can pop a baby in with his legs tucked up like a frog which is good for their hips and spine and tends to make a panicky baby feel v secure. I wish I had had one with DS1. My Sleepy Wrap (did I mention I'd sell you mine? wink) was a lifesaver with DS3 and DS4.

Have you tried rocking him while you are standing up in a totally dark room, whilst patting his bum regularly and having the white noise on loudly? Or doing long loud 'shhhhhhhhhhh's? He may well be so overtired and overstimulated that he struggles to calm and stay call.

I've sent you a PM btw.

yawningbear Tue 29-Jan-13 21:23:56

Not sure I can be of much help to you but my DD who is now 4 was much the same, it was nearly the end of me, seriously it was more than awful. I don't remember much of it but I do know she screamed endlessly or so it seemed. I think she was better during the day but from 6pm -3 am ish she screamed. Like you we tried everything, or everything we knew about but as fallenninja said in retrospect that was making things worse. They do also pick up on our stress, though when my HV tried to tell me that I did not take it well. YY to white noise, fek the bill or neighbours get the Hoover on, or a hair dryer anything loud and constant. I know you can get a white noise app or whatever, I tried somehting similiar with DS, who was nothing like DD, but it didnt have the same effect as the real thing. We had a crappy electric fan thing that she liked. As others have said though the main thing that helped was a sling, a really snug comfy one, we had a Close one, and a bouncy ball, hours and hours and hours of it. It got better around 3 months, as in the constant screaming lessened but she was hard hard work I am afraid but also utterly delightful and still is, mostly. High needs baby book by Sears and other similiar stuff helped. And ignore everyone's 'helpful' comments, unless you have had one yourself I really don't think you can comprehend how dreadful the screaming is. Is there anyone who can give you a break? I didn't have this, or even if I had I wouldn't have left DD but looking back it really would have helped.

yawningbear Tue 29-Jan-13 21:30:59

Oh, yes, just read Pacifics post and remembered the loud sssssh and firm pat on bum, whilst on bouncy feking ball trying not to lose my mind.

You could try listening to something on your iPod whilst you are holding him, drown out the screams, calm you down but you are still holding him.

Also as someone else had said if he does fall asleep don't even try and put him down for a good 15 minutes, maybe more, once his arm is floppy then it should be ok to try and lie him down, though best if sheet is warm, and then keep hand firmly on his chest for a couple of minutes. Sorry if you have already tried all this.

Back2Two Tue 29-Jan-13 21:52:38

Oh others have said, this thread is just full of things that make memories of my ds1 come flooding back.

1)It's really tough and you're doing amazingly well. (I went a bit bonkers, so do look after yourself! smile)
2) DON'T listen to people saying "you should be doing this that or the other" or books that say the same. They're talking about a different make of baby!
3) DON'T panic too much that it's not "normal" ....he sounds so like my son, he screamed, he had stomach problems, he wouldn't sleep and yet all he needed was sleep, he had to be moving ALL the time in pram or car or he woke up and screamed (I literally used to dread red traffic lights!) .....
4) try cranio oesteopathy
5) DUMMY? They are your friend and they are amazing.
6) take all the offers of help you can, and ask for help too. Sod the worrying about him screaming, just take the breaks where you can.
7) another vote for a vibrating chair
8) we also put our son to sleep on his stomach and would then turn him. He loved it on his stomach and hated it on his back.

Most of all, just kind of ride with it. Cope however you need to from day to day and don't worry about the future. Gradually, bit by bit it will get easier and easier and easier and you'll come out of the crazy fog of early days with a high needs baby. Cuddle him loads and watch loads of DVDs whilst he sleeps if that works.

For what it's worth, my ds did start communicating (smiles and sounds etc) from a very early age (5 -6 weeks). He was definitely very keen to get going in life.
Now, he is a chilled and lovely 6 year old who sleeps very well.

They say some babies just don't like being a baby! Once they get a few weeks old and then a few months old they get happier and happier.

Good luck!

Kafri Tue 29-Jan-13 21:58:05

No don't be sorry yawning I'll take any advice going atm. Apart from that from parents if children who were easy(ier) and think I'm just being daft/soft/incapable (I'm perfectly capable at thinking myself incapable atm without them making me feel worse, lol).

What sling would people recommend exactly? Pref one that easier than the one I have to adapt size (me and DH) and ease to get him in/out of.

Kafri Tue 29-Jan-13 22:04:17

Back2two. He is smiling and cooing etc (when he takes a break from screaming) and is VERY alert!!

Dummy, keep trying all the time but no luck so far. Starting to WISH he would just fur a little break from it.

Have started accepting help from friends to fetch break :-)

Red lights are evil. Pure evil. As are queues in shops so I can't get back to the rough pavement.


SolomanDaisy Tue 29-Jan-13 22:10:29

My DS preferred to sleep on me, but we had huge success with an amby nature's nest, might be worth a try?

I cannot tell you how many dark amber lights I went through when DS1 for once was asleep in the back of the car... blushshock

Stretchy wrap demonstration - this was the first YouTube video that came up. There are many, many more.
Mobywrap is a popular make, I had a Sleep Wrap which allegedly is thicker than the Moby (I don't know).
The woman in the video is using a long bit of t-shirt jersey - basically any v long stretchy fabric would work, certainly as long as the baby is not v heavy.

BertieBotts Tue 29-Jan-13 22:21:19

Either a stretchy wrap or a close/caboo sling, you can't beat these. I made my own stretchy wrap and it was very easy and worked absolutely fine.

They take about a minute to put on at first but then you can pop baby in and out all day. The close is quicker to put on but possibly slightly less supportive (?) and it's more expensive for what I see as unnecessary extras. They don't need adjusting as you tie it around you so it's already the right size for different people as soon as you put it on.

BertieBotts Tue 29-Jan-13 22:21:46

Erm pacific I think you might have shared the wrong link grin

BertieBotts Tue 29-Jan-13 22:22:56

This was my favourite carry to use when DS was little

Youtube tutorial

Ooops, sorry blush - the link gives you an idea what my DS3 currently looks like...

New improved stretchy wrap link

I should clearly go to bed, and so I shall.

I hope you get some rest, kafri.

Bertie, apart from actually linking to what you said it would link to, yours is also a much better demonstration.
And what a cute baba, aw smile

yawningbear Wed 30-Jan-13 07:03:37

I think the VERY ALERT thing is a big part of the problem or at least it was with DD. I think looking back that she was totally over stimulated and found lots of things completely overwhelming so shopping queues, bright lights, car rides, crazy mil playing peek a boo, pretty much everything led to more sceamage.Also the period of time between tired and overtired was really, really small. So basically as soon as they start to look away probably means they are ready for sleep.

If he likes the Hoover you could try putting him in a bouncy chair in front of the washing machine. Also cranial osteopathy, I had forgotten about that, we didn't take her until she was 9 months, and it really helped, they said she would have most likely had a massive headache when she was tiny which had contributed to the screaming. so that might be worth investigating.

As for the sling I did love the Close carrier and I had a few others but it was the one DD preferred. I got it from eBay so didn't pay much for it and sold it again too. It was really easy to put on but it does have lots of fabric that you adjust when LO is in but it's easy to do. If there is something similiar for cheaper I'd go for that. It also only lasted me til they were 6 months, I know folk who used it for longer but I didn't feel it gave enough support once they got heavier. The Ergo was my best friend after 6 months. There is a sling/carrier topic somewhere on here.

Hope you are Ok.

yawningbear Wed 30-Jan-13 07:13:11

There is also a really effective baby massage technique to help prevent sore tummy's. Both mine had trouble with this and I was convinced DD was constipated despite the HV saying breast fed babies never got constipated but when the GP had felt her tummy they said she was and gave lactulose. Anyway with DS I had a very different HV who taught me some baby massage techniques and the one in particular that I used a lot was the tummy one. It's really worth seeing if there is a baby massage person near to you who could show you as you do need to be quite firm so helps to be shown what to do although the actual movement is a very simple clockwork motion on their tummy. DS used to shoot poo out whilst being massaged grin

cheeseandpineapple Wed 30-Jan-13 08:08:15

My DC1 was similar but not as extreme. Unfortunately, sounds like you've got it tougher than most, Kafri.

This really helped my son, it's pricey but it seemed to settle him (even if it's described as stimulating, we found it was quite soothing.

I could leave him in his cot, on his back watching the swirls and listening to the classical music. We had one with bright geometric shapes but don't think they do that one any more. If I had any idea what we'd done with ours I would send it to you but no idea, too long back I'm afraid! The way the objects rotate and the black and white swirls go round make it more interesting and eye catching than other mobiles.

If you've already got something like this, maybe to help get him started or to build an association, when he's feeding calmly, have something like this on so he can start to watch it (you'll have to angle it over him if you sit next to the cot while feeding him) so that he can watch it initially while he's comfortable in your arms. As he gets used to it and once winded etc, have a go at laying him down in the cot under it and keep your hand over his tummy firmly but not hard so that he can watch it and can get used to the sight and sound of it, with you easing him into the situation and maintaining physical contact. If he does seem attracted, draw your hand back. And then pat from time to time pre-emptively. Gradually you might be able to build up the time he spends in the day on his back in his cot but I think the key is to try and get him used to sight and sound of something like a mobile when he's calm and focused on something like feeding so it's not just a case of plonk him down, switch something on and hope for the best!

But hopefully the nicer Dr you saw the other day can refer him if things aren't improving.

Sling wise, I wasn't a fan of the forward facing, hang off you type, DH was and he used that, I used mesh style one which you could have over one shoulder with baby more on the side.

Not sure how you mange to remain so good humoured and patient but hope you can keep your spirits up, it will get better. He sounds like a sensitive child, literally in terms of how he reacts to external stimuli but what is likely to come from this is his absolute fearsome love for you, you are going to be the centre of his universe, more so than for most other children, I have that with my son, he's still very sensitive, very reactive but also very very loving and caring.

Hang on in there, your reward will come!

cheeseandpineapple Wed 30-Jan-13 08:08:49
Back2Two Wed 30-Jan-13 08:09:02

YY to the "very alert"...i had no toys in his cot because even one toy was a massive distraction for him!
Also,my son was moving all the time. If he lay on a mat his arms and legs were going like windmills.
He woke from every sleep/nap and starting screaming crying. Every single time.

We did the holding in dark room, and the patting and shushing too. White noise we did a lot of.
Have you got black out blinds/ curtains?
Yes to baby massage as well. Importantly it is a good way for you to feel you are doing something nice and positive and bonding. You can do it at home if groups feel a bit daunting as other people might have babies that lie quietly for hours
Eat loads of cake. I used to walk for miles pushing him in the pram so he'd sleep and then manage to sit in Starbucks and rock the pram whilst I stuffed cake and coffee. Every day.

I know that I would have loved to know that I wasn't the only one with a baby like that. Even now, your thread has kind of reassured me.....becuase as time has passed I have reverted to thinking that maybe I just didn't cope very well. But, no. High needs, high spirited, high intensity. Should be talked about more.

Keep talking here if it helps. smile

yawningbear Wed 30-Jan-13 12:38:22

Me too Back2Two, I totally have looked back in the past and thought that I didn't cope well and folk like MIL often still like to tell me that DS was so different as a baby/ toddler because I have a small clue now what to do whereas with DD I knew nothing. But reading all of this you realise that some babies really are very high need and have lots of commonalities, DD also moved all the time too, she moved way more than DS even before she was born.

And YY to total blackout and lots and lots of cake.

Kafri - just seen this thread and my DD2 was the same and it was something like really bad trapped wind, you could see she was in pain a lot. The Close/Caboo sling was amazing and I eventually found an American natural remedy called Colic Calm which helps then to burp/fart out the air! It was expensive (20 quid!) But it totally worked for us and I loved it - could be worth you trying it. Good luck.

Kafri Wed 30-Jan-13 19:09:57


I may well be about to jinx myself but we appear to have had a slightly better day (apart from the journey to my sisters that is). don't get me wrong, he has still cried a lot but my never ending efforts seemed to be having some sort of effect even if only a small one.
I'm absolutely drained from carrying, rocking, swaying, bouncing etc but fir once the screaming wasn't constant for the whole 12 hours.
usually I'm drained and have had no let up from the screaming anyway so all efforts appear in vain. I've even seen a few more smiles than i would usually!

I'm not naive enough to think that this may be the beginning of the end just yet - 1 good day does not the end make!! but 1 good day is 1 good day and it gives me hope for other good days mixed in with the awful days.

I'm going to have a look at the links you guys have posted when i'm not crawling up the stairs to bed at stupid o'clock and will make sure i get the best suited sling.

I am nervous about going out walking with him in a sling though - what if i fall? (don't laugh at me - well not too much anyway)

I am going to make a list of all your suggestions so I can make sure i'm not missing any of them out of my repertoire when DS is being his spirited little self.

My HV is coming Friday, she wants to assess my 'post natal mental health' as she puts it. The fact that i laughed at this comment tells me my post natal mental health is fine grin. Seriously though, it's no laughing matter to people who do suffer PN depression so I shouldn't make light of it, but at the minute i've got to find the simple things funny.

I'm on the waiting list for baby massage at my local centre. Was told baby had to be 6 weeks (which he is tomorrow) and then I have to get to the top of the list and someone would be in touch. Slightly nervous about going along and spoiling the whole atmosphere of the group with the screaming but we'll give it a go - don't see why I should be excluded from it when it might actually help matters. In the meantime, i'll have a look on youtube and give it a go.

I keep saying this, but I really can't thank you all enough for your help and support. I hope i've amused some of you and brought back memories for others (and no doubt driven a few of you nuts in the process)

At the end of the day, I spent over 6 years trying to get DS, ending in IVF so hell will freeze over before this colic/reflux/whatever it is beats me. Hard? Too bloody right, TOO hard? never! (especially with people like you to offer help and reassurance)


MrsHoarder Wed 30-Jan-13 19:27:08

If you fall backwards, baby is on to of you and safe. If youfall forwards, your arms are free to break your fall so you don't land on ds. Safer than if you're carrying him in your arms.

Glad things are looking up.

Well, you don't sound like there is much wrong with your MH, thank goodness!
Just watch out, you'll be given a PND screening questionaire and the question 'Have you cried since you had your baby?' just made me give a hollow laugh at the time: I pretty much cried every day, but even in the depth of it never felt depressed. Frustrated, upset, tired beyond all reason, at the end of my tether - all that and some. But not mentally unwell, IYKWIM. I knew that if DS shut up became happier, I'd be fine too.

I have often said that I wished I'd knows about MN when I struggled with him because I would have gained so much strength from knowing I was not alone, he was not abnormal and I was not doing anything radically wrong.

Glad to hear your day was a wee bit easier x.

Oh and falling with baba in sling: you are less likely to fall with the baby held securely close to you by the sling (better centre of gravity). And what MrsHoarder said.

Front carriers ie BabyBjorns seem to be much liked by fathers, but are not v good for baby's hips and boy's bits, so not so good for prolonger periods of time. I also found that I felt too slumped over trying to support their weight when they were heavier. You need something to have some of the weight on your hips ie Ergo or other soft structured carrier IMO.

Have you even seen the threads on which people confess the many varied ways they have accidently hurt their precious children grin. The consensus seems to be that hitting a baby's head against a door frame does not count unless there is blood; babies bounce quite well; and nipping little fingers while trying to cut fingernails is almost mandatory...

Kafri Thu 31-Jan-13 05:03:19

Oh dont get me started on fingernails! Thankfully DS's don't seem to grow too fast but I'm terrified of cutting them. With being so unsettled all the time he's so wriggly so trying to cut them is a nightmare. I have to resort to carrying the clippers around with me and taking any opportunity I can!

Ice has a few near misses with cupboard doors in the kitchen while he's in the sling and I'm emptying the dishwasher - I just thought these were to be kept in the vault and never spoken of! smile

As for the falling - I'm a bugger for tripping on pavements/doorsteps/my own feet/thin air!

Tortoiseonthehalfshell Thu 31-Jan-13 05:23:16

Oh, Kafri. My DD1 was like this; not as bad, maybe, but certainly screamed for 2-4 hours straight every evening, and never slept except on me.

I'm so glad you're really clear that you're doing the right things and all the unwanted advice-givers can fuck right off. Seriously, the Contented Fucking Baby Book for a four week old?

I have absolutely no citations for this, but: a friend of mine went to a talk by a respected paediatrician in the States, who has a theory that colic/screaming is a sign of an emotionally advanced baby. In that, what they're doing is making their own white noise to counteract all the stimulation and overwhelmedness of the new world.

That may be bollocks. But it is certainly true that both her very, very high needs screaming DD1, and my not-as-bad-but-still-a-bugger DD1 got through the newborn period and then turned into easy children. At 7 and 4, respectively, they are both still very easy to parent. We call them our Fisher-Price My First Babies, because our DD2s, both mellow easy newborns, are both utter terrors by comparison.

yawningbear Thu 31-Jan-13 08:55:08

Great to hear you had a better day, those smiles do really help to keep you sane, and the belief that it really will pass in time.

As for tripping with bub in sling, I fall over a lot, I trip and stumble and basically fall over on my arse for no good reason and I have to say on one of the first times I had DD in the sling I did stumble down some stairs but she was fine. You quickly get used to it and if the worse happens you instinctively put your arms out to protect bub. Just make sure you wear flat shoes grin

Really hope things are ok today for you. Also don't worry if at the baby massage class all the other babies lie still softly cooing and gurgling whilst your DS flails, cries, goes bright red and poos everywhere. This is entirely to be expected!!

madlymoo Thu 31-Jan-13 10:05:07

Hello Kafri
I had a very similar problem with my daughter. Screamed and cried constantly, wouldn't settle, hardly slept. She was also a very clingy baby and preferred to be held all the time. Also threw most of every feed up. Turned out it was trapped wind. Had to spend literally hours with her sat on my lap with her sat up while i rubbed her back to help the wind up. After huge 'burps' like you wouldn't believe from such a small baby, she was much more restful. Also used bucket loads of something called Infacol which is for colic in babies, seemed to work but it did take weeks for it to clear up. Hope this helps and sorry if i've repeated anything anyone else has written, i never read the whole thread. x

Kafri Thu 31-Jan-13 11:16:09

thanks madlymoo, i've been using Infacol for ages now - on the full 2 dropper dose in each bottle. If it is helping matters, then I don't want to see what he would be like without it. He had a couple of days where he did some enormous burps - some AMAZED me, but that seems to have lessened now. He brings wind up easily on this new milk he's on.

He was sound asleep in the sling so popped him on his cushion in the living room and i made a brew and sat down to reply to messages - makes a change from doing on my iphone while trying to comfort him. That was at 11.00. it's now 11.15 and he's back awake and gearing up to scream - back on with the sling I guess.

Tortoiseonthehalfshell Thu 31-Jan-13 11:32:47

How do you find just sitting and doing things with him in the sling? If it's a good front pack, no need to unstrap him really.

Kafri Thu 31-Jan-13 12:00:48

i popped him back in his sling and he fell back asleep - I've just sat down to eat a bit of lunch and he's woken cos i'm not moving. bouncing him doesn't work - it has to be full on movement! i cant keep on the go the whole day long. for starters i'll run out if things to do - i'm going ti have the cleanest house/best stocked fridge on mumsnet at this rate!! grin

Iggly Thu 31-Jan-13 12:49:24

I used to bounce around walk etc for a good 20 mins. After that time they've fallen into a deep sleep by then so less likely to wake.

The only two things that worked for my amazing crying-without-stopping-for-months baby were time (!) and the fisher price swing. Best money I ever spent.

Kafri Thu 31-Jan-13 20:00:18

Right, what's my best bet here...?

As of tomorrow I'm going to start taking ds to bed with me at 9.30 ish instead of our current shift thing we have going

So, would I be best waking him and doing bath bottle bed before going or leaving him asleep and just coming down to feed him when he wakes naturally. He doesn't have set feed times as such but he has been 'due' one recently between 5.30/6.30 ish. It all depends on when he's fed throughout the day. I was told to feed on demand which does fall into a pattern of 'roughly' 3/4 hours but doesn't give set times as it were.

Not sure what to do as there's the old saying 'never wake a sleeping baby' on one hand and in the other, is he better having a feed before we go up. Overnight when he's had his last at 6.30, he's been going to 1am ish so he doesn't wake naturally for a feed late at night it appears. Would be nice if we coul have that length of time but starting a bit later.

You'll probably get as many opinions as posters on this one grin.

Personally, being the lazy easygoing person I am, I'd go with his cues and I would not wake him for a feed. At this point he is only beginning to the idea that there is a difference between day and night (or that there should be!), so giving feeds in the dark/semidark at night time with minimal interaction (ie no playing/little eye contact/soothing noises only) is a good idea and more 'conversation' and bright smiles during the day IYKWIM.

I really hope that co-sleeping will make as much of a difference to you as it did to me. It honestly saved my sanity and probably stopped me from running away - not that I would have really, but I certainly felt like it more than once!

Kafri Fri 01-Feb-13 01:41:40

The other thing is what do I need to to to make sure he's safe and I get some sleep.
I spent my whole pg with people telling me 'do not sleep with baby' but I've come together conclusion that its my only option really.

So I need to do it safely...

I've looked online but I much prefer the real life views of you guys who do it day in day out.

yawningbear Fri 01-Feb-13 07:17:13

I co-slept with DD, like Pacific it saved my sanity and there was no other choice, despite being told on leaving hosptial to 'please never let her sleep in your bed'. Needless to say it left me very anxious about co-sleeping and I spent a lot of money on things that were supposed to make it safer. With DS I was much more chilled out and we had non of the accessories but still co-slept. He is 2 really soon and I still sleep with him although he is showing signs that he is ready for me to leave.

I just noticed a cotbed thread in Chat so you could have a look at that. I reckon that would be the best idea, having a three sided cot right up ( attached ) against your bed.

Basic safety tips are to have baby on the outside, not between two people, not near any covers or pillows and don't co-sleep if under influence of meds, substances, alcohol, if very overweight or very tired. It's that last one that's a bugger to avoid in my experience grin. If you have a cotbed or three sided cot attached to your bed then you have no worries about LO falling out. You can get bed guards from mothercare which we used for DD but I didn't bother with DS.

Cultures all over the world sleep as a matter of routine, some of them (China? India? - I forgot) have far lower SIDS rates than Western Europe/USA.
Remember, co-sleeping is only ONE risk factor, and not the worst one INO.

So, to make it safe:
Don't drink alcohol or take medication that affect how alert you are. Don't allow anybody else in the bed who had a drink etc.
Have a firm matress.
Make sure DS cannot slip down the gap between matrass and wall for instance.
Have him sleep on the inside.
I slept with my arm above my head, on me side IYKWIM - DS1 was under the arch of my arm.
Overheating - avoid. I had him in his grobag with me under a light blanket of my own next to him.
Don't smoke.

Lots of it is common sense. Personally, I was so aware of his every move that I never felt it was not safe.

Hi ho, hi ho, off to work I go smile!

Iggly Fri 01-Feb-13 08:34:34

I coslept with dd - tucked the duvet to waist level, wore pyjamas so I didn't get cold, no pillow and DH was in the spare room (bed too small). If you want your DH in with you, he goes on the other side to baby. Baby goes on outside, you in middle. I used a foam bed guard under the sheet to stop dd rolling out. I also tried fixing the cot flush and level with the bed using bungee cords but dd preferred to be right next to me. I also made sure she was slightly under dressed as my heat would keep her warm. But I also had a cellular blanket (ones with holes in) so I could pop that over us when it did get cold. As it was cellular I didn't worry about it accidentally going over her head (which it never did)

BertieBotts Fri 01-Feb-13 09:30:43

Absolute best thing is to convert your cot to three sided if you can and it fits. Push the cot mattress over to meet yours and block the gap on the far side. Even if she sleeps snuggled up to you, it will stop her rolling out.

Other than that I agree with the others - the only points I'd make - don't put the baby ON the duvet as they need to sleep on a firm surface with nothing loose around them, and duvets reflect body heat so might make them overheat.

The reason they recommend babies go on the mother's side is that fathers are supposed to be less "in tune" - if I'm honest I could only feed from the "bottom" breast so had to feed DS on both sides of me, we occasionally fell asleep with him in the middle, and XP always seemed aware of him. Just be aware of it if you decide to have the baby in the middle at all - speak to your DH and see how he feels too. Of course if baby is on your side you need something to stop them rolling out even if they seem to be nowhere near rolling.

Kafri Fri 01-Feb-13 20:07:46

Ok, points noted. Where do I stand about waking him for a feed before we go up or leaving him be tip he wakes naturally?

(Not that it's looking like i'll have to wake him - he's currently screaming blue murder and has been since 2pm) I hate seeing him like this!

Iggly Fri 01-Feb-13 20:59:45

Leave him be. He needs sleep and his routine will change. Maybe when he's older and settled more.

He is sleeping little enough as it is by the sounds of it, so I would just leave him be tbh. I am firmly in the 'Let sleeping babies, sleep' camp.

yawningbear Sat 02-Feb-13 14:24:02

I'm with the others, don't be waking him up, unless he was sleeping for hours at a time, which sadly he is not. I would just try and encourage nighttime by keeping feeds dark, quiet, minimal activity.

yawningbear Sat 02-Feb-13 14:25:18

Hours at a time during the day that should read.

How are you getting on, Kafri?

Are you still interested in the Fussy Baby Book?
Hope you are ok x.

havingastress Sun 03-Feb-13 20:55:16

I went through exactly this for the first 4-5 weeks of DD's life (she's 13 wks now)...

THEN i discovered Harvey Karp - The Happiest Baby (google it)

She transformed within DAYS

We also thought she had reflux etc..had gaviscon. We were able to ditch all that, which I was thrilled about, as honestly, I don't think such tiny babies should be on such medication.

She sleeps on this

inside her moses basket, and we started swaddling her immediately after watching Harvey Karp.

The results, like I said, were instant.

Totally totally different baby.

The other thing we did was change her bottles - from Tommee Tippee (utter shite imo now!) to Dr Browns. Seriously. Dr Browns are amazing. Such a different to her reflux (if that is what she had)

Since being 5 weeks old, DD has slept through the night (6hrs+) and I've been able to take her out without the constant screaming etc.

Please, do pm me if you want more info. Personally, I wasn't a fan of the idea of co-sleeping and pumping drugs into such a tiny life didn't feel me with happiness either. I can also offer help with what we did with feeds etc.

I've gone through this very very recently, so know exactly what you are going through!

havingastress Sun 03-Feb-13 20:57:56

(sorry, just re-read you said he hates being swaddled...well trust me, so did DD until we watched Harvey Karp and realised we weren't doing it quite right!!! When we followed his instruction, results were instant. Please don't think co-sleeping is your only option!)

wheredoistartmrs Sun 03-Feb-13 21:01:07

This was my baby, you need ranitidine, ditch the gaviscon, put baby on side or tummy, get pepti 1 milk on prescription. Massage tummy and burp and burp for is milk protein allergy whethrr you are bottle or breast feeding

wheredoistartmrs Sun 03-Feb-13 21:02:12

This was my baby, you need ranitidine, ditch the gaviscon, put baby on side or tummy, get pepti 1 milk on prescription. Massage tummy and burp and burp for is milk protein allergy whethrr you are bottle or breast feeding

Kafri Sun 03-Feb-13 23:26:21

Pacific yes defo - actually thought I'd replied to your pm - bloody baby brain (I thought this was a myth)

havingastress great name, very appropriate for me atm. Will have a look at Harvey Karp and pm you any questions. Thank you.

wheredoistart he's already on Pepti 1 and Ranitidine after seeing paediatrician.

EVERYONE right, after a marginally better few days ie, still constant effort to keep calm but effort seemed worthwhile unlike before when he would scream regardless. Last couple of days have gone downhill again. He has started with the squirming after feeding again and taking ages to settle. He gets very upset when he need to poo and goes into utter meltdown until he poos but his nappy is perfectly normal. Has pood every day until today, nothing today at all.

Has been in absolute meltdown all evening. This time neither Hoover nor bath had any effect. Has just calmed about 10 mins back.

Now I have another problem. DH is as laid back as they come but even he is beginning to tire now. He's been so wound up this evening and no amount of me telling him this will pass is working. He simply doesn't believe it. I've tried explaining about everything being new to ds and his body having to mature and him having to learn new skills but its in one ear and our the other. I need to get DH back on track as he helps keep me sane (selfish I know).

How can I make him believe that this isn't forever when I'm not quite sure I believe it myself

Baby brain is definitely real blush!

PM me your address when you have a chance, Kafri, and I'll get it on its way to you. Might be a good read for your DH as well...

Gross generalisation alert: IME a lot of men like to 'fix' problems and get very frustrated and irritated when a problem is beyond 'fixing'. I think that is why it is often fathers who push looking for what it 'wrong' with their screaming infant. And of course it is absolutely right that a baby should have all possible physical causes checked out and treated if at all feasible. The rest is perseverance and not losing faith that it WILL get better... with time, lots of it.

Much as I said upthread 'don't look ahead too far' (and I stand by that day to day), it is worth considering how many toddlers you know who scream every waking minute? I had some high intensity toddlers (DS4 is still a limpet at nearly 3 <sigh>), but that incessant baby crying does stop. Just when is impossible to predict.

My 10 week premature, confirmed reflux (Barium swallow), on Omeprazole DS2 was less unsettled than DS1 (and DS4...) and is still far more chilled than his brother. He was ill and often unhappy with that, but always screamed for a reason, rather than for sheer panic like DS1.

havingastress Tue 05-Feb-13 12:12:38

sad sorry to hear that. Trust me though, it will pass. It will get better.

At 4 weeks, DD was a mess and frankly so was I (bad birth, forceps, episiotomy, damage from epidural!! I could go on). My DH is also laid back, and like you say, he was at breaking point too.

Just cut yourself some slack. Have some pyjama days. Don't try to be supermum. Just get through the day. However you can. ASK for help. Take as much help as you can. Get out of the house (and away from the screaming!) for at least 15 mins a day. If you can't do that, just put the baby down, let him scream and walk away. Have a glass of wine whilst humming to yourself!!

If it's any consolation, I currently have a 'pooing for England' baby after reacting to her jabs! So even when you think you possibly have it 'sorted' something else always comes up.

One thing I've learnt is this - don't listen to anyone else and how much their baby is sleeping etc. They're probably lying!!!

If you PM your address, I will send you the Harvey Karp book smile

Hang on in there! 4 weeks is still very very young. At 4 weeks I went to my mum's house for 4 days, and slept from 7pm - midnight every night whilst my mum dealt with the baby, then I took over through the night (every 90mins or so!). Just do what you have to do. Get some sleep, however you can.

Kafri Tue 05-Feb-13 17:56:49

Awww havingastress poor baba - hope she's much better soon - i've just got a date through for ds jabs - something else to make him uncomfortable.

Another question...

Thinking about the 'rod for your own back' phrase...I'm trying really hard to get DS to nap better in the day, as many of you have said, he is massively overtired.

This morning I got him to settle by rocking and rubbing his back. This afternoon and just now, however, the only way I can get him to settle (he's quiet now but not asleep) is by laying him on his front and turning the hoover on or by playing an app of the hoover sound. Now my question is, is this ok or am I gonna end up with a baby that will only go to sleep with the sound of the hoover?

He finishes a feed and appears sleepy but then as he's trying to settle his tummy gets uncomfy and he starts the wriggling/squirming pattern which wakes him up and then there is no getting him to settle again once he's finished the wriggling.

Kafri Tue 05-Feb-13 18:05:49

Oh and can anyone shed any light on the best swaddling blankets to use and where to get them. The blankets I have all appear a little small for swaddling and he manages to get them loose. The last week or so he has appeared to quite like being swaddled.

havingastress Tue 05-Feb-13 18:47:25

Right grin The best swaddling ones I found were actually huge muslins from TK Maxx (still in stock, pack of 3 £11.99). I did buy a specific grobag swaddle thing and it was useless. You need a large square muslin really. Sorry it's not on their website, just checked, but I have been in 2 different branches of TK only yesterday and both had them in stock. (and some fab dummy holders to go on your pram or bag grin )

re. hoover sound. I ordered a white noise dvd off ebay - it's got the sound of waves crashing. She won't sleep without it. I couldn't give a toss ha, she sleeps. It actually makes us sleep and feel drowsy too. Who cares if she gets used to it? I'm gradually turning the volume down each week, but tbh, I'm not that bothered.

I put DD down still awake. In fact, she's sat here now screaming. I'll be moving her to her bed any minute, and she definitely won't be sleepy when I put her down. But I know she's tired. My rule of thumb is, once she's been awake for 2 hrs she needs a sleep. If you go over that 2 hr window they are then grumpy/crying because they are overtired.

Book is in the post grin Enjoy!

Kafri Tue 05-Feb-13 19:05:16

Thank you soooo much havingastress x

Most kids will sleep without a hoover on by the time they are 16 grin.
I don't mean to be glib (I find crap humour helps), but DO WHATEVERY WORKS just now; the only constant is change and you will find this is true of your baby too.

Re swaddling: the only thing DS4 (also a crier but nowhere near as bad as DS1 had been) could not escape from was his Woombie grin. Did not make him sleep, mind, but he did stay contained hmm.
I've got 2, hardly used, in two different sizes if you are interested? Please don't feel that I am dumping all my no-longer-needed baby stuff on you blush.

Kafri Wed 06-Feb-13 01:59:06

No, I don't think that at all, I'm just desperately searching for what helps him and what keeps my sanity and what gets us both some sleep!

I'll keep going with the Hoover/app. Sometimes it doesn't get him to sleep but is the only thing that soothes him and gives my arms a break as its the only time I can put him down - on his tummy on a cushion with the iPad/Hoover close by.

Honestly. I expected much less sleep but had never considered no sleep. All I heard while pg was 'sleep in the day when he does'. Well, the simlpe answer at the min is that he doesn't. Nights are mostly still shift work with DH so I get 3 hours in an evening before getting up at 1am.

Kafri Wed 06-Feb-13 03:38:13

Still sat up with ds with trapped wind!! He's writhing and wriggling all over the place and absolutely knackered.

Nothing seems to shift it. No amount of running, patting, bike legs, infacol, dentinox. I'm out of ideas!!

Anyone any miracle wind easers?
Think it's the bum end, keep getting little bullet trumps!

Kafri Sat 09-Feb-13 03:42:26

Oh my goodness, my child WILL NOT sleep.

he woke at 2 for his feed and will not go back down to sleep - this is after having no sleep during the day whatsoever.

Has anyone any magic tricks for getting a child to sleep?

LadyWidmerpool Sat 09-Feb-13 04:23:44

Littlr monkey! It WILL get better. Mine napped on me after feeding or in the buggy. I could never just put her down after about three weeks. I just made a virtue of it and made going out for walks part of our daily routine and lost a lot of weight! If your baby doesn't like the buggy for sleeping just now he might take to it later. I'm trying to think what else worked - not much really. Occasionally the sling but very rarely. It must be so hard, I do feel for you. Getting out and doing things really kept me going. Try to treat yourself when you can. It WILL get better!

Mum2DS1andDS2 Sat 09-Feb-13 08:13:29

Just read this whole thread and it is bringing back painful memories. I feel flr you Kafri, and anyone who is or has been through this. It's heart breaking isn't it? Everyone says what a beautiful time it is, all my friends seemed to breeze through it and even those who did struggle even admitted they'd never know babies like mine (not helpful but it did reassure me in a way that it wasn't just me who was over reacting!)

Both my sons have been like this as babies. DS1 is now 5 and was infamous on mumsnet when he was a baby for being so grumpy and screamy. It was such a shock, being our first baby, I was expecting peaceful walks in the park with the pushchair, hours cuddling my sleeping content baby...pah!!! It was not to be! The reality was horrific. Endless screaming, pacing around soothing him, he never ever let me just sit to cuddle him, we always had to work so hard just to keep him content just for a few minutes peace. He screamed in the car seat, screamed in the pushchair, cried constantly. He was so sensitive to noise, stimulation, people, had to be held in a certain way whilst we walked around, could never just pop him in a bouncer. It truly was hell. I was back and forth to health visitors, GP etc, tried reflux medications, dairy free diet, cranial osteopathy, none of which had any effect. It was so sad because each time I'd convince myself that this would be the magic cure and then nothing would change and it broke me. All I can say is that gradually (very gradually) things improved. He started being able to be put down more once he could crawl, he seemed to lighten up a bit but still hated car seat, pushchair, he wasn't even keen on the sling as it didn't hold him where he wanted to be up looking over my shoulder. I was still walking on eggshells as the slightest thing would set him off into meltdown. He needed a hell of a lot of input.

Anyway, probably not what you want to hear and it may well happen sooner for you if you do get to the bottom of his crying but for us we never did. He was just miserable but he gradually got more settled the more milestones he reached. Walking helped and meant I didn't have to keep pacing around with him and thankfully he walked at 11 months. Talking was a huge milestone and by age 2 he was lovely. No more difficult than any other 2 year old, maybe easier actually as we had this incredible bond now because we have literally been to hell and back together. He was very articulate and aware and I think this added to his frustrations as a tiny non verbal baby. He's 5 now and amazing. He's my best friend and we are so close! He's such a good noy, top of his class, very sensible, reasonable and calm now. It really does get better I promise.

DS2 was all the above too, I felt robbed. Everyone promised me you never get 2 babies the same. Pffft! Well I did! DS2 ws every bit as high needs and sleep refusing as DS1 but he's 13 months now and gradually we are seeing the light at the end of th tunnel. It has been so hard though. So hard not to compare to other peaceful gurgling happy babies. So hard not to think I have somehow failed them. Having DS2 has been challenging, trying to fit his needs around DS1 but DS1 has been so accepting and loving towards his brother. They are already so close and it's amazing. It will all be worth it. You will get there too. It all gets better.

Kafri Sun 10-Feb-13 17:08:45

Just to mix things up a bit...

How many dirty nappies is normal?

DS usually has 2 each day - usually around lunchtime but can vary. Anyway, up to now, we've had 4 full nappies - 1 @ 10am, 1 @ 1pm, 1@ 4pm and one just now @ 5pm.

He seems ok in himself - is eating fine and temp 35.6 so not worried per se but just wondered if this is ok?

Yep, that sounds ok.
How old is he now? 6 weeks?
Babies (like people) vary enormously in how much/often they poop, and around 6 weeks you might see some slowing down. Or variability grin. Some will still do a dirty nappy after each feed, others won't. They should look like 'healthy' milk stools ie like korma (sorry, but so true).

Mum2, I totally understand what you wrote about 'feeling robbed' - my DS2 was quite chillled, but DS3 and 4... shock. I blame DH's genes as I am quite laid back wink.

Kafri Sun 10-Feb-13 22:12:30

He's 7+3 now. I'm not wishing time away but we're edging closer to the 12 week mark!!

I defo feel a bit lot sad that his time being tiny is spoiled by his screaming and discontent. I feel bad every time I have to go anywhere as he hates it so much in the car seat and then some tasks are so hard to try to do carrying him so I don't know what to do there!

Sleep wise - DH is trying to get him to sleep as we speak. I st DH, it's actually the Hoover app now, DH is all swayed/rocked:bounced out. Is it normal that there is no predictability yet? Like done nights he goes to sleep easily straight after his feed, others he refuses completely to sleep! Also us it ok that his feed times are still all over the show so haven't been able to get into a bed tom routine as it were - like bath @ x o'clock, bottle then bed following. It all depends wht times he's fed throughout the day. I try to stick to 4 hourly but obv if he's hungry I'm not gonna make him scream til the 4 hours are up!!

I've PMed you.

I am currently in the process of wishing 2.11 DS4's life away blush - I've done my bit of toddler wrangling and wish he would learn another word other than 'NO'... So don't feel guilty.

I used to worry about DS1 not being able to learn anything about the world around him or even develop as he was always screaming: he was reading by 3 1/2, is absolutely spooky with his grasp of numbers (doing P7 maths in P3 and loving it) and beats his dad at chess; I think his abilitiy to learn is just fine and dandy wink.

Here is another thought: Is there a clinic for screaming babies near you? The paediatric hospital here has/had one.
Also there is always cry-sis - I sobbed down the phone to them more than once.

And feed him. Try NUK dummies, stick dummy in and wiggle it a bit until he has actually started taking it.

Every day/every night is another day/night that he is older and closer to get a bit maturer.

Look after yourself.

Kafri Tue 12-Feb-13 03:18:23

he's having the worst nights sleep he's had in a long time and that's saying something. He's sort of settled now but is on his tummy and if I try to move him or turn off his white noise application he wakes immediately. I can't sleep when he's on his tummy as I'm too scared of something happening.
I thought we were getting somewhere with night times but apparently not! The last few have gone downhill rapidly!

I've emailed a friend to see if she can sit with him later this morning so I can get a bit of sleep, otherwise I'm up til dh gets home at 6ish.

oh im tired! !

rootypig Tue 12-Feb-13 11:23:29

Kafri I have just read this thread and have far less experience than other posters but didn't want to read and run. I hope you're ok and that someone can come today so you can sleep. <holds hand>

Until one of the other posters comes back with better, more specific advice: I have 14 wo DD, less high needs than your DS, but very alert and retrospectively think was really overstimulated in early weeks and still often is now. what has amazed me (looking back) is how constantly things have changed, often imperceptibly at the time, but end result is she is so much more happy and settled now she is 3mo and I understand her so much better than I did. Whatever happens, your DS will change too, it is inevitable, hang on to that thought.

The other thing I wanted to say is (in response to your question about hoover / white noise) I feel really strongly there is no such thing as a rod for your own back, you must simply do whatever works at this point. I feed DD on demand, often to sleep, she fights sleep like a demon and we have tried many many things including shh pat, singing, lights, sling, pram, whatever. various things have worked for a night or two then we've had to find something different. For the first month we coslept though I thought we never would - I had no choice, or I never would have slept. she loved it, but it made me nervous. Once she was more settled, having clocked some decent sleep, I worked on getting her used to her cot (we have a Bednest, so now she's right next to me anyway). My DF, bless him, scarred by 3.5 years of sleepless nights with my brother, felt strongly that she shouldn't be relying on us to get to sleep, visions of me BFing a ten year old to sleep. tosh! she is tiny, the less she sleeps the less able she is to sleep, iyswim, so the goal is just to get her to sleep whatever it takes. And this has gradually worked - she still only naps 30 minutes at a time (so jealous of friend whose DS sleeps for 2 hours in the middle of the day!) but she has five naps a day if need be, I'm militant, the second she touches her ear (dead give away) or rubs eyes she is whisked into familiar sleep environment. and the more she sleeps the more familiar it is / the better she is at it. so, do whatever it takes to get him off, as you gradually come through this you will naturally become more consistent and that will help too.

Fwiw, what has worked most reliably for us in moving her from only sleeping on me / in my arms to now always sleeping in cot is 1) letting her fall asleep at the breast and holding her in my arms for at least half an hour before trying to put her down - it seems she is in some sort of light sleep that lets her wind down from a state of overstimulation 2) when settling her in cot after this, physically preventing her thrashing her head / arms around by pinning her down (she is a swaddle refusenik [hmmm]).

writing this, it strikes me that it sounds as though your DS sounds like he is stuck in the first emotional state every baby has and DD was in for a few weeks, just overwhelmed by everything - perhaps because he is so alert. keeping him in terribly familiar environs, with just a few familiar things, might help. DD always calmed down immediately when put on her change table and I have realised it's because it's the most predictable place - same very distinctive mobile, exaclty the same routine. she then built up the same understanding of her cot / activity gym / bouncey chair. still working on the pram! hmm

oh and I took her to an osteopath last week because she was suddenly just screaming and screaming in pram / sling - it seems to have made an immediate difference and I am so grateful, so another vote for that, go asap if you can.

sorry, that turned into a massive roundabout waffle I wasn't expecting to write! blush I hope it makes some sense and helps in some way.

what I really wanted to say is just that you are doing astonishingly brilliantly amazingly well to be so humorous and kind to DS throughout what is a really testing time and to remember how much he was wanted something I have at times struggled to do

now I hear the empress my DD yelping and must go and tend to her every need.....! wink

yawningbear Tue 12-Feb-13 15:34:34

If he can sleep when he is on his tummy, how about an Angel monitor or similiar, to monitor breathing and then letting him sleep on his tummy, then you could get some sleep knowing the monitor is there. It is on sale at Kiddicare, I just had a look and is probably one of those things that you could sell on. Hope your friend made it over and that you get a break. Also YY to the Osteopath.

Kafri Tue 12-Feb-13 16:26:25

no, friend didn't make it to help. she wasn't feeling too good so didn't want to risk it. dh will be home soon so I get a chance to nap.

will take a look a the angel mat and mention to dh as a possibility.

I've made a huge effort today to feed every 3 hours and then put down to nap an hour and a half after waking. even if he hasnt slept, i guess he's still resting. have to have the hoover application going to get him to settle, otherwise he just screams for me to come.

Purplecatti Tue 12-Feb-13 16:43:36

I second the angel care monitor. I was adamant about no tummy sleeping whilst was pregnant but after 5 weeks of NO sleep I would try anything. It was my mum who put her down on her stomach and bought me the monitor. After that... hurrah! Two hours of sleep at a time at night. She does sleep on her back now and doesn't seem to have the problems your poor little one seems to have but try the monitor. If he will sleep that way let hin. He will feel better for sleep at any rate, as will you

MoelFammau Tue 12-Feb-13 16:44:53

DD was exactly the same. Would not ever lie down. Suspected colic, reflux the lot but nothing seemed to help until we went lactose-free at 18mo. She slept on my chest while I sat and watched telly. It was tough.


kafri, I am sorry if I seem to monopolise your thread and surely I will soon run out of things to say on the subject... blush, but if your DS sleeps better on his front then so be it.

Putting him to sleep on his front does not mean he will come to harm - it is one of many riskfactors for SIDS, not the only one. Generations of kids where put to sleep on their fronts (because they settled better, any posset could run out of their mouths better, French babygrows still have the bottons up their backs to allow for comfy front sleeping) and while I am truly not debating to whole 'back to sleep' evidence, remember these are recommendations for the 'average' baby, whatever that is. Just like 'weaning at 6 months' is probably right for most babies, but too late or too early for some, some babies need to sleep on their fronts.

I have known mothers in my professional capacity who were still turning their sleeping infants back on their back when they were capable of turning themselves. As a tummy sleeper myself, I would resent that grin. My refluxy, preemie DS2 is a front-sleeper and has been from a young age.
My best friend from school had a son who would only ever sleep on his front: he was Nr2, a screamer, and was a total shock to my friend who had considered herself an experienced mother after her DS1. Not so.
I am not being smug, just trying to explain how parenting a child, whether your first or your twelfth, is a constant learing curve and truly, the only constant is change.

If a breathing monitor would reassure you, then go for it. Personally, I'd urge caution because they do go off when there is no cause for concern all the time and can sometimes add to the stress of it all rather than allowing you to relax.

Hope you are having some rest as I type this smile.

yawningbear Wed 13-Feb-13 15:17:14

Actually if I am honest I agree with pacific, I would just let him sleep on his tummy, but It sounds like you are too anxious to do that so hence angel monitor suggestion but maybe not so good if they go off all the time, that would be very stressful in itself. FWIW I did not let DD sleep on her front, too anxious, but I did with DS and would certainly do again faced with another like DD, though that will never happen, it would be the end of me!!

So sorry it is still so tough for you. I would agree with one of the posters who spoke about the strong bond they now have with their DC. The awfulness of those early months with DD will never really fully leave me I don't think but as a result we do share a very close bond and when she is distressed or having a typical 4 year old melt down an offer of a cuddle is often all it takes to calm her down. I can hear and feel her physically relax in my arms, sometimes almost instantly and I actually often feel grateful that we went through those endless hours of soothing when she was a wee red faced scrap of a bairn.

Kafri Wed 13-Feb-13 15:44:00

I'm slowly coming round to the idea of letting him go on his tummy,

the main thing thats putting me off is that he will only settle on his own with this bloody hoover app going apart form today (he's been an absolute nightmare today). Anyway, i've accepted the hoover noise - that took some doing as I cannot stand white noise of any kind, it really grates on me.

So, i've accepted the hoover noise, but, if I put him on his tummy, with the hoover noise then I won't be able to hear on the monitors the sound of him moving about (or not) because of the noise.

That's why I chose to try co-sleeping before tummy. I was/am anxious about the co-sleeping but figured that he would sleep with me without the hoover app going so I was able to hear him throughout the night.

If he were in his cot with the hoover app going, I would lie awake worrying about whether he was ok on his tummy or not. If I don't put the hoover app on, he will not sleep alone. He has never yet liked to be put down, though I have started seeing small improvements with it this last week or so - he is happy to go on his playmat for a bit of interaction with me. Still can't put him in his chair or swing and go off to make a brew or summat without coming back to him crying.

Kafri Thu 14-Feb-13 10:00:58

This seems like a silly question but how do you get an 8 week old to sleep for a nap and at night?

If I stand rocking him, he pushes against me to be looking around at everything. If I resist he gets all worked up so sleep is further away than when I start.

If I sit quietly on the sofa he wriggles around rather than settling.

If I swaddle him (in the daytime) he fights against it and gets all worked up.

If I try getting him to sleep in his swing chair/bouncing chair he gets all worked up.

If I put him down on his cushions with his white noise app that he was getting used to settling on, he springs between lying calmly and fussing and eventually the fussing becomes too worked up to sleep.

Occasionally he will fall asleep in the sling if I go out for a walk which is fine but it does mean I get nothing done around the house, or even just get 5 mins to myself as when he's awake he quickly gets worked up if i'm not holding him. I know people will say he needs to get used to not being held but he really doesn't just cry - he gets hysterical and has done from day dot.

I don't understand at all why he gets so worked up so quickly. It's not like he cries if I nip to the loo and I come back, pick him up and he settles. He gets so worked up about it that it can take hours to settle him back down again?

We went to do the food shop yesterday. He cried in the car on the way there - only 5 min ride, if that. He settled in the sling while I shopped (can't take him in in the pram as he screams in that still). He was fast asleep by the time I got back to the car. He woke the minute I put him back in the car seat and screamed all the way home. That was it - absolute meltdown for the rest of the day. It was like he got totally overwhelmed and couldn't switch off or something?

He also doesn't seem soothed by cuddles etc which I hate. Theres nothing I want more than to be able to cuddle it all better.

Some babies are not very touchy-feely until much older - if hugging does not help, don't do it. I know it's upsetting because it seems like a rejection, but it is not. Maybe he is going to turn out to be big on personal space wink.

Give up on the idea of 'getting anything done' - you won't and if you have the expectiation of doing stuff you'll just end up more frustrated. Whatever chance you get (friend having him for instance) use it to do stuff for yourselt: a bath, exercise,, clothes shopping if that's your thing or whatever.

It sounds like the sling does help as long as you are in motion, yes? Go out for walks, for hours if need be, go to a big shopping center so you are preotected against the elements if you want.

DS1 never stayed alseep in his car seat. I stopped taking it out of the car because it was hard work and pointless.
And yy, I recognise the going ballistic in an instance too. I used to feel like I was in the presence of a timebomb whenever DS1 was not screaming, because I knew it would not last. At times I could not sleep at night because I was just waiting for him to start howling again, even when he wasn't IYKWIM.

Do you have another paeds appointment coming up. Have you looked into osetopathy?
You so sound like you need a break sad.

rootypig Thu 14-Feb-13 10:52:29

please do try a paediatric osteopath. it increasingly sounds to me as though your son is in pain.

Kafri Thu 14-Feb-13 18:13:09

Another silly question...

DS has just thrown up an entire bottle.

I'm not sure whether he's poorly? - have had no reason to think so throughout the day, or whether I jostled him about too much while trying to get tea on the stove?

It was a whole bottle and he got extremely upset afterwards. It was a completely different cry than either me or DH have heard before..
It might seem like a silly question but this is the first time he has been sick. He's not a sicky baby and rarely even spits up never mind throws up. The only thing I have noticed today is that he's dribbled a little more than usual.

Any suggestions?

rootypig Fri 15-Feb-13 09:23:02

hi Kafri, don't want to monopolise thread but see noone else has responded. did he throw up any more during the night? if just that one bottle, would file under these things happen. bringing up that much milk would be really distressing for such a little mite. but only you can know if his cries give you cause for concern.

I hate to bang on about it but a paediatric osteopath would listen to and consider all of this before treating your DS.

Kafri Fri 15-Feb-13 20:46:46

no, kept feeds down today ok.

in the up side, we appear to be having some good times thrown in with the hard ones these days. Long way to go still but at least i can see improvement.

ANOTHER QUESTION (how many of you am I pissing off now)

ds has his first jabs on Tuesday. :-(
dh grandad is in a nursing home and family are keen for him to meet ds. (possibility that he doesn't have too long left)
anyway, I can't take him just yet as I think its a bit far to take ds while he gets so distressed in the car. its over an hour each way and when i say ds gets distressed, I mean DISTRESSED! is it safe to take ds to a nursing home after his jabs or do i need to wait for his second lot?? not sure what protocol is...

Are you still around, Kafri?
How are you getting on?

Cubtrouble Wed 20-Feb-13 00:26:03

Kafri, our son was pretty bad when he was first born and still gets pains in his tummy now. I don't know if you do already but we found giving him milk warm was the best way to help him. For some reason cold milk makes him windy.

Now he drinks 7oz. 5oz will be room temp and 2oz boiling water from kettle is the temp he likes!

Good luck, I hope things get easier soon for you. Xxxxx

Kafri Wed 20-Feb-13 02:11:21

hi Pacific, yeah im still here - just figured everyone was sick of me whining by now lol.

ive judt recently started mixing room temp eith boiling water. he ysed to have room temp, as that's what they had in hospital and given we were in a week he got used to it.
Then tried warming in a cup of hot water then decided to mix room temp water with boiling as the pepti 1 powder dissolves better in hot.

feed wise he seems much much better atm. not sure whether its the milk, omeprazole, Infacol, him getting bigger/mire mature, new bottles or a combination of all.
hes off ranitidine now. doc said to wean off once omeprazole started. out of everything - the ranitidine was the only thing I've ever struggled to get him to take.

He will still only sleep on his tummy on some cushions - clearly likes to be cosy like his mum. It just means i don't sleep well as I'm terrified of him suffocating. when should he be 'safe' on his tummy? he's very strong, but obviously not turning himself (either) way yet. everything i read says when he can turn himself both ways - while to go yet.

seems a lot calmer atm. still very quick to cry. can be playing on his playmat with me and will go from huge smile to tears in the blink of an eye. keep looking cues that he's to tiring of activity but literally goes from smile to cry. I know I must be missing something. ..
at least he's realised he doesn't have to scream - he will just cry sometimes now. small mercies and all that. .

car and pram are hit and miss now. drove half our each way to sisters ob sunday - was fine. drove 5 mins ti brothers yesterday-screamed. same in pram. walked riund town yesterday - fine and dandy. walked same today - cried the whole time.?????

Writergirl Wed 20-Feb-13 19:34:54

Hi there
Sorry - read some of the pages but not all 10! So, I don't know if anyone has already suggested, but have you considered a cranial osteopath?

Don't know if it's your cup of tea, but but sometimes, depending on the birth, the baby's soft skull bones are compressed and it can give them discomfort like a headache.

I have a few friends who recommended it to me.

Other than that, you have my DS3 was born in August and I couldn't put him down until December! (he's now 2 and things are ok :-)

I had to wear him the whole time and car journeys were a nightmare. I literally couldn't put him down.

Luckily, as I'd had kids before, but nothing like that, I knew it would pass, so just bear that in mind. Good luck O O O

Kafri Thu 21-Feb-13 01:35:18

flipping heck what a night. it was like being transported back to 6 weeks ago.
went out to see friend late afternoon and got stuck at every traffic lights, crossing etc possible so ds kept crying in the car. Most of the time he seemed to settle once we moved again. seemed ok once we arrived. gave him his feed. left to come home at 6 (waited for rush hour traffic to die down a bit). he screamed as we set off but very quickly fell asleep and didn't hear a peep til I got home.

pulled up on the drive and bam!! wide awake. was screaming before I'd even walked round the car to get him out and that was it - he screamed and screamed and screamed the rest of the night.

rootypig Thu 21-Feb-13 08:43:13

oh Kafri that sounds so so hard. seems like it's one step forward five two steps back with this baby lark. are you going to be ok today? does he at least get some exhausted sleep after so much yelling?

darlingoz Thu 21-Feb-13 11:19:52

I could have written ur post word for word. Definitely not alone!!! God I hated the first 12 weeks- not the baby but the situation. For the first 7 weeks she was strapped to me in the babybjorn. It was the only way she could sleep. I would even sleep on the couch with her in it at least then knowing I couldn't drop her. Looking back I think other than the obvious wanting to be on u it's normal reason the screaming was not ok and I believe I wasn't burping her enough. I'd feed her then burp her at the end. A great book I read advised burping every 30 mls or 2 min b/feeding. What a difference. It also said to never give up on that burp- it can take up to fifteen minutes. If I'd have only known that before she reached 7 weeks. My poor baby was screaming cos she was starving but her little tummy was too filled with gas to drink more. Anyway, u are definitely not alone!!

Kafri Thu 21-Feb-13 15:06:44

we are definitely back at square one! its a viciius circle. he feeds, is content for fifteen mins, I figgt him to sleep where he mught have 20mins and then wakes screaming again. then it starts again with another feed.

ive just given in and put him in his swing while I eat something.

I dont get it. he hates and I mean HATES EVERYTHING.

Swing - scream
bouncer - scream
playmat ' scream
pram - scream
car - scream
carry - scream

I just don't know what to do. he just hets himself soooo worked up he cant bring himself down.

rootypig Thu 21-Feb-13 23:00:42

you haven't said what you think about cranial osteo?

Kafri Fri 22-Feb-13 01:17:17

thats because im not sure what I think. i cant find much locally to me. what does it actually involve someone doing to him?

Kafri Fri 22-Feb-13 07:25:49

please can someone answer this question.

he seems to be eating less..

he was feeding ecery 3 hours during the day and with last feed at about 10pm. sleeping through to 6am so 6 x 6oz bottles (hes on Pepti 1 remember)

anyway, gradually over last few days he's been taking less - down to about 4oz tho still finishing some feeds so wasnt too worried.

anyway, he woke at 6.30 this morning so changed him and fed him but he's only had 3oz and some of that was with him trying to spit the teat out.

First off, doea it sound kike something to worry about and second, if its nothing wrong, I don't want to get into the habit of snack feeds every 5mins.

he has been a bit jumpy overnight - wriggly and sort of groaning. and then with his feed he couldn't keep still? ?

Kafri Fri 22-Feb-13 07:27:42

forgot to say. didn't finish last feed last night for dh, so had 4oz at 10pm 8 hours sleep abd theb 3 oz this morning?

rootypig Fri 22-Feb-13 09:34:22

osteopathy = correcting structural problems in the body with non invasive touch ie massage and stimulation. It's very gentle, but with the right person is very skilled and specific. I would perhaps post on Mumsnet local to see if anyone can recommend in your area. Manchester? I am in London, but would recommend the one I've seen.

I know you're having an incredibly tough time with DS, and I find myself researching tiny things with DD, but in all honesty from recent posts it sounds as if your anxiety and worry is taking over entirely, and you would benefit from seeing someone for treatment for DS and reassurance for you. Many people here are recommending osteopathy as an option that could help your baby and I would say that they could also be a source of support to you.

I really couldn't say if the feeds are something to worry about, it sounds good that he's having something and babies' appetites do fluctuate. DD is ebf but she definitely goes through phases of having 'snack feeds' and bigger feeds. I personally wouldn't worry for a couple of days unless he was refusing all food and not sleeping.

ps 8 hours sleep sounds fab? hope you had it too! smile

yawningbear Fri 22-Feb-13 16:48:24

Totally agree with Rooty, babies change all the time, that is the only constant with them, their appetite, sleep patterns, poos, it all changes constantly and just when you think you,ve got some thing cracked they throw something else at you. I really don't think need to worry and brilliant that he slept for such a long period of time, and at night!

The cranial osteopathy is totally non invasive and it can actually appear as if they are doing nothing at all, you can feel you have paid for someone to lay their hands on your baby's head and nothing more, but it really helped with my DD and DS. There have been a lot of people on this thread who do really relate to the issues that you are having with your DS, because they have been there themselves and found that one of the things that has made a difference is the cranial osteopathy, so perhaps worth considering.

Kafri, I did not want to revive your thread and then run away, but RL got in the way wink.

Still tough, then, eh? You poor thing, and poor your DS.
I too think that cranial osteopathy is worth a shot although there is little evidence to support it and with my medical hat on I think it a bit voodoo - however with my desprate mother hat on, I gave it a shot with DS4 who was quite the screamer too. It is entirely gentle, babies don't mind at all and by all accounts some people report a massive difference for the better. It didn't work for us, I took DS4 for 3 treatments. If you find somebody locally and can afford potentially wasted money, my take on it would be that you don't have much to lose and might just gain IYKWIM.

Yes, feeding patterns change all the time. If he continues to gain weight and thrives, I would not worry about day-to-day feeding. If there is a downward trend, then get him looked at.

I am not sure what to suggest other than what I've said before (and what took me to my 3rd child to fully believe): some babies do not 'like' being babies, some need that '4th trimester' to accespt hat they are now in this world, some are more frantic personalities than others (and always will be, although the incessant wailing does stop, thank goodness!).

As long as you feel that he has been suffiencently assessed to give you the confidence that he is not ill/in pain, then all you can do is the best you can do. And wait for time to pass.
'Tis a marathon, not a sprint. I still have contented-baby-envy towards some of my friends who had their children at the same time as me and seemed to have enjoyed a blissful early motherhood with their bundles of joy envy.
Ah well, my DS1 is going to cure cancer/discover new galaxies/find the cure for the common cold, so not having strangled him when he was impossible to placate was worthwhile wink.

Kafri Sat 23-Feb-13 21:01:12

ive been reading abiut it these last few days amd I think im going to give it a go. just gotta find someone decent in the north west now.
im not sure whether i have any belief in it but i have got to the point where i have tried everything else and need to give it a go if only to tick it off the list.
I certainly can't afford it as such but if it helps then I'll find the money cos it'll be worth it to see him happier.

These last 4 days have been awful. I think the worst part is when he has a 'good day' its still such hard work keeping him settled as the slightest thing sets him off. literally smile to scream in the blink of an eye.

Kafri Sun 24-Feb-13 19:32:28

this may be the silliest of questions. ..

in all his distress, ds appears at his worst while at home. he has only been as bad as at home while out once and that was on Friday at a friends house.

my query is, could cats possibly have anything to do with our problems. he doesn't have any outward symptoms of allergy but he us generally so much better when we're out at various places (apart from the journey-be it on foot or in the car)

he's by no means perfect at other places - friends/bro/sis/church/even a restaurant today (which I was dreading) but much better than at home or indeed at this friends on Friday. the only common denominator that separates home and this friends house from every other place we go is cats!

we have 2 (1 only comes in to eat, the other sleeps on a beanbag) and my friend had one until it died last week.

just wondering if there's a possibility that the cat could be causing some of our troubles in some way or am i being ridiculous?

rootypig Sun 24-Feb-13 19:39:30

hi Kafri - no idea but you're not being ridiculous to ask, when DD is unsettled I get paranoid about everything eg a sniffle and I'm eyeing the cleaning products. and it's an interesting observation. hope someone with an idea about the cats will be along soon.

Kafri Sun 24-Feb-13 19:46:56

thanks rooty.
They're DHs cats so I can take them or leave them to be honest but certainly wouldn't want dh to re home them if they're nothing to do with any of the issues.

im booking an appointment for CO in the morning. Not sure i believe it'll do anything but it's certainly worth a try.

stargirl1701 Sun 24-Feb-13 20:31:33

Hi Kafri. You're having a really rough time by the sounds of it. I just found your thread...I have many of my own.

DD is 24 weeks and is so similar to your LO. We have tried everything mentioned on your thread too. I find that something will work for a few days and then we go back to square one. It's so disheartening. My only advice would be to try and block out all the idiots trying to give you shit advice. If one more person suggests CC to me I may punch them!

I found that distraction works more consistently than anything else. A feature of refluxy babies is that they are more alert. So, we go out every day. I go on bus journeys that are just a circle back home. I sit in cafes so DD can watch the staff working. I drive and drive on the motorway (no traffic lights). I wander round large supermarkets without buying anything. Just to make the screaming stop.

DH and I share the load and we each get one full night away every month either at a friend's or relative's house. We have arranged a babysitter to come for 2 hours once a week to let us leave the house together as a couple - sometimes dinner, a movie, or, if it has been really bad, just sit in the car together. We have a cleaner once a week. We ask friends and relatives to help with laundry. She goes to the crèche at Church.

It's about survival. I feel so distressed that my mat leave is almost half way over and I haven't really enjoyed it all. I really don't enjoy the mum and baby groups because of the shocked reactions of other mums but, I keep going - one group every day.

It's fucking hard. And, unless they've had a high needs baby, most people don't have a clue. But, you are not alone. thanks

Kafri Mon 25-Feb-13 10:08:36

I've booked an appointment for CO. Going tomorrow morning. Keeping my fingers crossed that it will have some effect. I hate seeing ds looking so miserable all the time and it can't be nice for him either.

rootypig Mon 25-Feb-13 17:00:43

Good luck Kafri. I really hope it makes a difference. whether it does or doesn't, I hope you get some time away soon to rest and relax - even if just a few hours - as stargirl suggests. xoxo

rootypig Tue 26-Feb-13 04:56:11

also here is high needs thread in case you haven't spotted x

Kafri Tue 26-Feb-13 19:52:05

well im not quite sure what I made of his CO appt.
ds screamed throughout. then the guy sort of handed him back and just said 'I think he needs mummy cuddles'
wants to see him again on Friday? ??

he came recommended by people from my local NCT branch so wasn't as if i just plucked him from the yellow pages.

stargirl1701 Tue 26-Feb-13 19:53:40

Is he a paediatric specialist CO? Maybe have a search online and find out if there is anyone else in your area?

smellsofsick Tue 26-Feb-13 20:09:19

kafri not sure I can add much in the way of advice but just to say please be reassured that you are doing a great job in really difficult circumstances!

My DD1 was pretty much the same as yours, a terrible sleeper to begin with but it DID get so much better. I remember feeling so sad because I actually hated every day for those first few weeks - there I've said it!

It will pass and we even have a ten week old DD2 now, so rest assured that cuddling to sleep, getting your DH co sleeping or whatever it takes is fine and things will improve.

Sorry to hear you did not have an overwhelmingly positive experience at CO. If he came recommended by your NCT group I presume he had treated babies before/had experience with infants? FWIW,I felt the same about our CO appointment/s, but still went back 3x - clearly more money than sense hmm.
DS3 did not settle through any of the session and then screamed his little heart out on the way back in the car.

As long as you are satisfied that he has been sufficiently medically looked at, then Just Keep Going. Your DS may not be a baby that 'turns a corner', but who gradually begins to calm a bit with increasing maturity.

I have been pondering your question about the cats, and I dunno... It does not sound like he has an allergy (sneezing, itching, wheezing, rash?) and I don't see how the shere pressence of cats could upset him so much. Could it just be being at home ie too cooped up or not enough to distract him from this horrible feeling of seperateness from you?? I know I sound terribly lentil-weaving here, sorry. DS1 needed constant movement and physical contact to me to stop the siren going.

Do you think you'll go back to CO?

rootypig Tue 26-Feb-13 22:15:08

Sorry that you didn't have a positive experience Kafri, when I first saw the CO with DD he took a full history of pregnancy and birth, and gave her a thorough, gentle examination, talking me through what he was doing and what he found, which I found reassuring. Was hoping for the same for you. sad

stargirl1701 Wed 27-Feb-13 16:25:28

How are you doing today Kafri?

Kafri Wed 27-Feb-13 19:52:15

well, he's screamed, cried and screamed some more for good measure.

one thing I cant seem to weigh up is tye crying in the car/pram. some journeys hes fine - others (most) he screams the whole way. it baffles me somewhat.

how about you star?

stargirl1701 Wed 27-Feb-13 20:18:38

Having a crap day, I'm afraid. I find DD soooo unpredictable. What works one day just doesn't work the next. There is just no consistency. I've been working on the same routine for 4 weeks now but not getting anywhere, just an odd day here and there (like Monday grin). It almost makes it worse - you think you are getting somewhere.

Do you have support from your parents or PILs?

Guys, you are all doing a marvellous job and just keep doing whatever you have to to survive.
But - I found I only managed to not go insane to eventually give up all ideas of a 'routine' and to submit to the total chaos that looking after DS1 was. I really found I felt better when I had NO expectation wrt to having a shower/getting anything 'done'/having time to myself/getting any sleep. When I then DID get any of those things, it felt like a real bonus grin. Rather than thinking "he's x number of months old now, surely he should now play/sleep/tolerate the car/not scream so much" and be frustrated/feel like a failure when he didn't.

I really hope you are still hanging in there, star and kafri thanks x

Kafri Fri 01-Mar-13 23:56:56

pacific shower? hmmm im sure I recollect that word from my distant past. ... lol

star my mum and PILS think we're doing a wonderful job with ds so in that sense they're supportive but in the helping out sense, well, neither seem confident enough to spend any time with him alone which baffles me given they've brought up 5 kids between them...?
how about you? have you any support?

dh had 3 days off now so we're trying to get ds in his cot instead of the sofa. ive given in and put the bloody cushions in there (waits to be flamed) but it really is the only way he sleeps - on his tummy on these cushions. hes like his mummy, wants to be cosy. anyway, for the time being, I can be found sleeping on his nursery floor as im too scared to leave him alone on his tummy on his cushions.

stargirl1701 Sat 02-Mar-13 12:33:42

No flaming here. Just do whatever works to survive.

We have good support but now we are reaching 6 months with no real improvement it's wearing a bit thin. More and more I just hear, 'leave her to cry'.

Kafri Sat 02-Mar-13 15:46:50

I know. im gonna swing for the next person who tells me to leace him to cry.

he did well in his cot. and sleeping on his nursery floor (with carpet) was far more comfy than sleeping on ny living room floor (laminate). I didn't feel about 90 when I got up.

theres people I know who think im just exaggerating about ds. either that or just think its me not coping with having a newborn. it doesn't help that my bro who doesnt have kids onky has my sisters baby to compare ds to (sis had her first 6 weeks before me) and typically hers is one of the easy, placid, put up with owt babies!

stargirl1701 Sat 02-Mar-13 18:44:18

I'm glad you've some success Kafri. Do you have a blow up mattress you could use? Borrow? That might make it more bearable in the long term. Looking back, I wish we had bought an 'Arms Length' co-sleeper. I will certainly buy one if we have another baby!

Today's genius advice was: stick her in front of the TV every time she screams. Dear god, she'd be watching 10+ hours a day!!!!!!! grin

I'm sleeping in the spare room tonight and DH is taking her out tomorrow so I can have a day to potter alone in a quiet house. I might take some Night Nurse so I'm knocked out overnight and less likely to hear her.

This was not how I imagined it would be.

Contradictionincarnate Sun 03-Mar-13 23:00:35

kafri what type of monitor do you have there are ones that set off an alarm if breathing isn't detected maybe then you would get a bit more sleep even if its on an inflatable mattress in the same room or your own room in a few months time.

Kafri Sun 03-Mar-13 23:36:48

ive looked at those monitors before. how do they work if ds is in cushions on his mattress?x

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