Those of you who put newborns down to sleep at 7pm-ish...

(52 Posts)

How long do they sleep for? I've always thought that "sleeping through the night" for a newborn is 5 hours unbroken sleep, so if they go down at 7pm, that means them being awake again at midnight. And then what happens if/when they do wake up?

I'm asking out of genuine curiosity as my DD (who is now a strapping toddler) would never go to sleep that early in the evening. She would cluster feed during the evening and would eventually go to sleep at about 11.30-midnight. Even when she was a bit older (6 months or so), any sleep she had before about 9pm would turn out to be a 40 minute nap, then she'd wake up and be awake for another couple of hours. It has taken a long time and a lot of patience to get her to go to sleep (and stay asleep) in the early evening.

I guess this is where the phrase every baby is different comes in, but I do remember feeling a bit in awe of my friends whose babies went to sleep at 7pm and stayed asleep.

LaCiccolina Thu 15-Nov-12 14:27:01

I'm guessing bottle fed. A bf baby would rarely do that in my (accepted its limited!) experience!

My bf dd didn't do 5hrs ie 11pm-4am til she was 6mths. I thought she was dead the first few nights. I nearly shook her awake.

A full night 7-7 occurred at 20 mths.

I stopped discussing sleep with mates. Wasn't worth the pain of hearing how successful theirs did it.. X

KnockedUpMell Thu 15-Nov-12 14:31:21

I put both mine down at 7. They may wake for a feed but we co- sleep and they fed in their sleep and stay asleep till the morning. 7pm was just a natural time for DS- I never tried to get him into a routine, he just fell into one. And now with dd it's easier to follow the same times so I get a break from both of them!

Themobstersknife Thu 15-Nov-12 14:32:58

Both mine, 1 ebf and 1 ff, were doing about 12 hours a night from about 8pm at around 3/4 months. Think we were very lucky with the ebf one! Pity neither of them sleep through now...!


Pascha Thu 15-Nov-12 14:34:58

We started putting DS to bed at 7-7.30ish when it became obvious he was sleeping all evening downstairs anyway, that was at about 6-8 weeks IIRC. I would dreamfeed him when we went to bed at 10.30ish and that was him settled til either about 2 and 5am or as he got older it was more like 3 and 7am, and by 5.5 months he had dropped pretty much all the night feeds, just the occasional early waking.

He did it all by himself, I never once experienced a cluster feed.

DD is now 21 months and she's done 6.45pm-6.15am ONCE! Haha. At least I know she's almost capable of sleeping a 12 hour stretch!

Pascha Thu 15-Nov-12 14:36:51

and he was BF apart from a bedtime bottle of EBF while I got in the bath. I think some babies are just that way inclined.

AThingInYourLife Thu 15-Nov-12 14:37:43

All 3 of mine were breastfed and slept from 7pm (or earlier - fed to sleep, so whenever they dropped off) until 10 or 11ish.

Then had a feed and then back to sleep for a few hours, then usually one more wake in the night and up for the day around 7am.

Declutterbug Thu 15-Nov-12 14:42:35

How do you reconcile putting them 'to bed' at 7pm with the SIDS guidance that all sleeps, including naps, should be in the same room as an adult up to 6 months confused? Do you just ignore it?

Relevant factsheets here

QTPie Thu 15-Nov-12 14:44:56

Not quite 7pm, but:
- up until 5 weeks, DS would have a bath at about 7.30/8, then a "last feed" straight afterwards. He would then wake at about 1am and 4am for feeds, before waking at about 6am for the day.
- from 5 until 12 weeks, DS would have a bath at about 7.30/8, then a "last feed" straight afterwards. He would then wake at about 4am for feeds, before waking at about 6am for the day. So he was sleeping for a stretch of 7 hours?
- from 12 weeks, he dropped the 4am feed and slept through from that final feed (normally started at about 8 and finished by 9) until 6am or later (fast heading towards 7am). So that was 9/10 hours of sleep a night with no feeds or wakings.

DS was solely breastfed (well one feed a day was EBF)

DS (2 years and 9 months) has bath at 7.30pm and in bed by 8/8.15pm. Wakes up 7/7.30am. But he still has about 2 hours each afternoon as a nap too. We had a very rocky patch between 13 and 19 months (teething) - where we took it in turns to go in, hold his hand and sleep on a mattress next to his cot - but otherwise he has been reliably good smile

Getting him in bed for 7pm would always have felt like too much of a rush in the evenings.

AThingInYourLife Thu 15-Nov-12 14:45:15

Yes, I just ignore it.

I don't know anyone whose baby has all their naps in the family room until 6 months.

My babies would never have got the sleep they needed if I had done that.

can't 'putting to bed' also mean in a moses basket though? In which case they could still be in the same room?

Pascha Thu 15-Nov-12 14:47:47

DS went into his crib in our bedroom in the evening, his monitor had a movement sensor pad so we could see it blipping all the time.

BettyandDon Thu 15-Nov-12 14:50:15

We always counted sleeping all night as being asleep from about 10/11 to 5/6. For us bedtime was 10/11 when she was a newborn. It seemed to work well as we were not expecting a huge amount of sleep from 7-10pm. Gradually we brought forward her bedtime to be earlier and earlier as she slept longer.

We were very lucky with her as a newborn as she managed sleeping from 10ish to 7 from 5/6 weeks and through the night about 12 weeks (8-7). She was fed expressed milk in bottles due to my rubbish non-latchable boobies. She always drank a lot at once which I think was a result of the feeding plan she had when she was jaundiced (hopsital insisted on 70 mls every 3 hours).

It all went tits up though once she became a toddler @20 months ! But we were lucky early on.

Declutterbug Thu 15-Nov-12 14:51:59

From the link above:

"One study, that compared 745 SIDS babies with 2411 control babies across Europe, estimated
that 36% of SIDS deaths could have been prevented if the babies had slept in a cot in the same
room as the parents.
• An English study, comparing 325 SIDS babies with 1300 control babies, found that 75% of the
day-time SIDS deaths occurred while babies were alone in a room.

There is no evidence to show that baby alarms, or movement monitors, prevent SIDS."

I would say there's good reason not to ignore the advice.

As you say, all babies are different, and I think a fair amount of it is down to luck. I consider the phrase 'sleeping through the night' to mean just that - i.e. with small babies 7pm-7am ish with no wakes or feeds.

With all my 3 (who were EBF) the first 4 or 5 weeks involved much crying and fussing and feeding in the early evenings and so I would have them down with me in the moses basket. Each time by about 6 weeks when they were more settled I started to put them to bed upstairs after bath and last feed at 7pm / 7.30ish, it took a bit of time to get it established, with much going in and out and cuddling /rocking etc, but they all soon started going to sleep at that time and then waking in the early hours for a feed, then back to sleep until morning. DD1 miraculously (and with little input from me) started sleeping through 11 - 12 hrs a night from around 8 weeks old and DD2 and DS both did the same from about 10 weeks and 12 weeks respectively.

I didn't have any special magic tricks or advice, (except that when they woke in the night I always spent about 5 mins trying to resettle without feeding before offering a feed and often that worked), that's just what happened, with the DDs anyway, DS needed a tiny bit more pushing through to drop the night feeds.

ivykaty44 Thu 15-Nov-12 15:04:15

Declutterbug what % of SIDS has been prevented by sleeping in the same room?

BlueberryHill Thu 15-Nov-12 16:46:17

I put the DTs down to sleep about 7 pm in our room in baskets and then in travel cots. My reasoning being to get them into a routine asap. It was easier if both DH and I did it, but it then left us time for DS1 to have his bath and bedtime routine from 7.30 onwards. It was important to us that DS still had that time with us without the DTs.

DTs then fed roughly every 3 hours during the night, so 10.00 / 10.30 onwards etc. They gradually dropped those feeds, it took ages for us to pluck up the courage to drop the 10.30 feed, they were about 15 months, we just wanted them to sleep through and not wake up. They also had all their naps upstairs too.

It is shocking but I never considered SIDs in that instance, even though I followed the rest of guidance, including sleeping in the same room when I was asleep. shock. I just didn't connect it all up.

Declutterbug Thu 15-Nov-12 19:20:28

Ivy that question is not possible to answer. What is known is that lone sleeping significantly increases the risk, as the research linked to above clearly demonstrates. The uk advice is very clear that babies under 6 months are at increased risk if they sleep alone.

amarylisnightandday Thu 15-Nov-12 19:30:49

For me, following thecsids advice is putting the baby in a Moses basket to sleep then carrying it around. When dd1 was v tiny she was in her basket in the lounge then we'd take her to our bedroom when we went to bed. It was simple enough. When she got older we pitcher basket in the bedroom when she went to sleep and checked on her frequently. Atcthatctime we lived in an apartment on one floor where the living area was v close to the bedroom anyway.

I'm in a big Victorian terrace now so with dd2 I reckon the safest would be to carry her basket around again.

Been thinking a lot about SIDS today as mW mentioned the Born on Bradford study on cot death etc and its findings.

ivykaty44 Thu 15-Nov-12 21:16:06

Declutterbug - sorry but the research is not clear, the English study is far to small a number for starts the other study is bigger but not really vastly so, then the figures give 75% of the day time sids - how many of the 325 were days time - it doesn't say. 1300 control babies - what are the circumstances of the control babies.

Sorry but my question outlines the fact you can't answer it yet you have a control section in the study? It doesn't add up.

therefore the research doesn't clearly show anything, other than guilt tripping parents

The only thing that is clear is the fact that parents are being told not to let there babies sleep in a different room from where they are as this will cause a risk of sids

Unless you stand over your sleeping baby every second of the time they are sleeping how could you ever be 100% confident that they were not going to succumb to SIDS?
How does a parent sleep, spend time with other DC, go for a pee?
I think common sense has to prevail, although as a new parent it is very, very easy to hang on to every snippet of guidance/directive given & feel incredibly guilty if you don't/can't.
By following temperature & feet to foot guidelines plus using available technology ie motion sensor monitors parents generally give their DC every chance they can.
Back to the original post - DS was encouraged into a 7pm bedtime routine really early on, I think at about 6 weeks. It was poo poo'd by our NCT advisor but 20 months on we still have the same routine and a boy who sleeps 7-7/8 give or take illness, teething etc. Early on his evening pattern was a short sleep 7-10pm then maybe a 2/3am feed and another at 6/7am. We found dream feeding didn't suit him or us and the 10pm feed was the first to be dropped. DS due anytime NOW and we'll introduce the same routine for him (& hope he's as good!?).

DontmindifIdo Thu 15-Nov-12 22:04:44

I breastfed DS - put him down around 7pm, then gave him a feed around 10:30pm (although that was often a bottle done by DH so I could get more sleep) then he'd wake up around 2-3am for a feed then sleep until 6ish. from about 3 months he kept going longer after the 10:30 - 11pmish feed until he dropped it all together, then around 5 months we dropped the 10:30 one as we were having to wake him for it and he managed to get from 7pm until 6ish without anything. However, the feed before bed would start at around 6:15pm and he'd just empty me so I think he just filled up with the same aound as cluster fed babies did.

DS went in a basket in our room to start with, while he left him with the monitor for the first couple of hours, I was normally in bed by 9pm. However, he very quickly outgrew it so we were those terrible parents who put their little one in their own room early. (there's not room in our bedroom for a big cot, and he wanted to sleep with his arms out wide - we moved him in his own room at 10 weeks) I guess we were slightly increasing his risk of SIDS, but the logistics of our home gave us few options once he was out of the moses basket. We could have coslept, but that's supposed to be bad for SIDS as well...

SamSmalaidh Thu 15-Nov-12 22:08:30

I kept DS with me for all sleeps until he was about 5 months - I don't think it is that unusual? Naps in living room/in sling/pram etc

Declutterbug Thu 15-Nov-12 23:04:04

3 of my 4 DCs have been kept with me for all sleeps under 6 months and many over. Daytime sleeps all in sling/arms; evening spent in arms (or v occasionally rocker chair/moses basket, nighttimes in our room. Never found it to be a problem.

The numbers in the studies are small because, very very thankfully, in this country the SIDS death rates are so low now that there aren't large numbers to study. The vast majority are attributable to somking (especially during pregnancy). Some of the researchers believe that soon the term SIDS will be defunct, because actually the numbers are so small and more and more people will be picking them apart into separate causes rather than the catch-all banner for unexplained.

amarylisnightandday Thu 15-Nov-12 23:40:38

There is a v slightly increased risk of SIDS with co sleeping but barely significant IMO.

From what I've seen not smoking, keeping an eye in temp in room, not over wrapping etc and ensuring ventilation is the most you can sensibly do. Some babies are more at risk due to gender, low birth weight and other health issues but then I suppose like others that those deaths are not really SIDS if they can be attributed.

I have a close friend who is an emergency nurse at our local a&e. when we had our dc she wax very paranoid about SIDS due to having seen cases of it but resolutely states that in her experience the biggest risks are being unchecked for several hours and using CIO type sleep training methods - as in these were the common factors in all cases over the last 5 or so years in our area. Whether those parents were smokers etc I have no idea.

cheesebaby Fri 16-Nov-12 00:00:22

Ivykaty the data you want are freely available in the full text of that paper here. Most SIDS deaths happen during the night and it is well established that lone sleep increases the risk at night (hence the cot in the parents' room recommendation). However what was not well known was that lone sleep during the day was just as - even more - important a factor for the substantial proportion of daytime SIDS. That is what the paper adds. And I would dispute that a sample of 300+ cases is 'small'. It is huge in modern SIDS case study terms.

fraktion Fri 16-Nov-12 00:02:19

Often deaths of infants whilst co-sleeping aren't SIDS. They are down to overlying or similar. Co-sleeping also frequently covers sleeping on sofas/armchairs etc. The oft quoted NZ study was very flawed research.

I think there's a study which showed that in certain communities safe cosleeping minimised SIDS and there were proven increases in infant deaths in countries where it became customary for babies I sleep away from their parents.

MrsHoarder Fri 16-Nov-12 01:43:02

I don't leave ds to sleep for a while nap inn the daytime, I'll have a quick shower or make a be but then I go back to where he's sleeping to MN supervise. Really not a problem as he's my pfb

Sparklesandglitter Fri 16-Nov-12 06:40:23

I got my DD in to a routine at 6 weeks, it's not perfect but by 7.30ish eace night she is fast asleep and will now sleep till 12ish then 5ish. She is now 12 weeks. From 6 weeks she went in her basket in our bedroom at bedtime (not day time just night) as I felt it was best for us to establish a routine and she won't sleep in a basket downstairs. We weighed up risks and benefits and decided this was best for our family. Each to their own I guess! As a baby I was in my own room from 6 days old!

Sparklesandglitter Fri 16-Nov-12 06:41:54

I also leave her sleeping during the day to do housework, bottles, washing, etc (shrugs) otherwise nothing would get done!!

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Fri 16-Nov-12 06:53:54

To answer the OP, DD is 15wks old and I put her down at 6pm-ish. This is so I can then do DS's dinner and spend some time with him before he goes to bed at 7.30pm. I've done this since she was 6wks old. She started off waking around 11pm, then 3am for a feed. This is now just 3am. She is EBF. She wakes up "for the day" at 6am, which is actually fine, as DH and I get up then anyway, as does DS.

I did the same routine with my DS. He fed more frequently at night for longer than DD has, but with both of them they literally wake up, feed, go back in the cot, go to sleep, so although they're waking to feed, they're sleeping constantly for 12 hrs- i.e. I'm not having to resettle in that time, unlike in the first 6 weeks where I'd be sleeping one hour in three, with the other two spent either feeding, burping or resettling.

noelstudios Fri 16-Nov-12 06:57:34

This one again!
When my twins were 5 months they wouldn't fit in the same cot anymore and we had to move their downstairs napping cot upstairs and they went into their own room. Everyone slept better! DH and I are massive snorers though! At 10 weeks thy were feeding at 6.30, 12, & 6am - ff. They dropped the dream feed at about 10 weeks and apart from when they've been unwell, have pretty much slept 12 hours straight each night since, they are now 13 months.

noelstudios Fri 16-Nov-12 07:02:38

We never co-slept (too wriggly, bed too small for twins!) or cuddled them to sleep (mn crime!). They learnt to self-soothe from day one, but also slept nose-to-nose for the first three months. They now go down in a jiffy and have a 2-2.5hr nap in the afternoon.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Fri 16-Nov-12 07:21:09

The limitation of SIDS research is that it's impossible to isolate the risk factors, so for example, we know that more cot deaths occur when the baby is asleep in a room by itself. However, this might be a correlating factor, not a cause in itself. In other words, who is more likely to put a baby to sleep in their own room?

- Smokers? Quite possibly- you dont want to smoke in the same room as the baby
- People who dont breastfeed?- very likely to be the case- most people who bf are likely to co-sleep or at least keep the baby in the same room. FF are less likely to because they hve to get out of bed anyway to get the formula from the kitchen.

So smoking, lone sleeping and ff are all SIDS risks BUT it might be that one of these isn't a factor at all but that they correlate strongly with things that are.

Remember that all SIDS data is retrospective (obviously- it would be completely unethical to do anything else) but it does limit the data set.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Fri 16-Nov-12 07:28:03

Another one cited by a SIDS expert was dummy use. Dummy users are less likely to get SIDS but what this researcher said was that it might be that poor sleepers are both

- more likely to be given a dummy and
- less likely to sleep very deeply, and one theory us that very deep sleep may trigger SIDS

and not that actually using a dummy has any benefit

MagiMingeWassailsAgain Fri 16-Nov-12 07:37:22

I used to put DS down in the moses basket downstairs in the evening and only put him in his cot when I went up to bed, always too late at around 11-12pm.

He slept through a handful of times at around 3-4 months just to tease me then never did it again until he was nearly two. [knackered] We started to sort-of co sleep when he went into a bed around 15m as he would wander in in the night and spent the rest of the night in with me after a feed or seven

Nearly four now and still wakes most nights and sneaks into my bed. Not still BF though.

ivykaty44 Fri 16-Nov-12 07:49:44

375 cases is to small to complete a study on, yes thankfully the number is low but to use this and then say the reasons are is looking for a maths patten of risk will possibly mask the real reason that these cases are happening.

Declutterbug Fri 16-Nov-12 11:23:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Fri 16-Nov-12 11:38:53

Declutterbug- I don't ignore the risk, I accept it. There is a difference. Everything we do in life carries risk (which is a shame because humans are notoriously bad at assessing risk, as numerous studies have shown).

The risk of SIDS is 0.4 per 1000 births, or to put it another way, 1 in every 2,500 or 0.04%. Take out most other risk factors, (such as being a non-smoking household, breast feeding, using a dummy, not using blankets, not overheating the room) and take out incidences of suffocation (sofa sleeping etc) misreported as SIDS, and I can probably halve that risk to 0.02%. That is minute. I don't think you can say anyone is irresponsible for accepting that risk and putting a baby to bed at 7pm. Bear in mind that the chances of dying in a car crash are not much less, and you still drive your car, don't you?

Declutterbug Fri 16-Nov-12 11:45:34

Yes, you are right Richman, poor choice of words on my part. There is a risk though (albeit small in the absence of other factors), and many people are not aware. It's not a risk I choose to accept smile, but I can understand we differ, as I said above.

Yes, I do use my car, but I keep my children rearfacing until 4 years plus to try to minimise the risks to them, and chose a car with a good NCAP rating deliberately. I actually don't take the baby in the car much as she hates it! I guess I am generally quite risk-averse smile.

Ragwort Fri 16-Nov-12 11:51:02

I ignored the advice too grin.

My (bf) DS went to sleep in his own room at 7pm from the day he came home from hospital; he would wake around midnight for one feed and then slept through until aboput 7am. He started sleeping right through about 6 months - from memory, it's 11 years ago now grin.

He also had his naps in his own bedroom, (and had an afternoon nap until he was about 3 most days). Never had a monitor either, really can't see the point unless you live in a mansion.

Perhaps it was just sheer luck, but he never, ever had a problem sleeping. I constantly bite my tongue when I see parents (mostly mothers I have to say) who just will not even try to let their baby self-settle.

<awaits flaming>

Ragwort Fri 16-Nov-12 11:52:24

Richman - yes, that is a better way of saying it, I 'accepted' the risk.

Themobstersknife Fri 16-Nov-12 11:53:08

Not going to direct this at any one poster, but please all contributors just watch the tone of your post to ensure it is neither dismissive of the risk or disrespectful. Remember there are posters on mn who have very sadly lost their babies to SIDs, some of which I believe did not have any other risk factors.

Declutterbug Fri 16-Nov-12 12:12:46

I have asked for my post of 11.23 to be deleted. Reading it back I can see it could be upsetting and I did not mean that, sorry.

Dottyspot Fri 16-Nov-12 13:43:44

My newborn has gone to sleep about 7/8pmish since she was a few weeks old. She then wakes about midnight and 4am for a feed. Up until last week we kept her in the Moses basket downstairs with the lights dimmed but then she started to wake herself up as she didn't have much room to move in the basket so we have started to put her down upstairs in her crib but either dh or I then stay in the room reading with a booklight or on the iPad. (or we go to sleep early!). SiDS terrifies me so we'll keep doing this until she's 6 months which is only a few weeks away, so not too long.

On this subject, I wanted to ask about introducing formula. dd is ebf atm but I would like to introduce a bottle of formula a day in preparation for going back to work. Would 1 bottle of formula a day increase SIDS risk at 4/5 months? Would it be safer to wait until 6 months to introduce? The data I can find doesn't seem to give any quantities. Just that bf babies have the least risk, mixed fed slightly more and fully formula fed highest but none say what proportion of ff/bf mix fed means and when baby was mix fed from. i.e. if from birth would that risk be more than introducing at 4 months?

mintymellons Fri 16-Nov-12 13:48:30

A formula fed new born would need to feed every three-four hours, so if down at seven, would need a feed around 10pm, then say 2am and 6am.

Karoleann Fri 16-Nov-12 13:49:00

DS1 didn't sleep through til 2.5. Ds2 and dd slept from 6pm til 7.30pm from 3 months, breastfed but with a bottle at forula and dream feed at 11.
None stayed in our room past 1 month.

princesssmartypantss Fri 16-Nov-12 14:05:26

Well said thermob, i appreciate everyone must make theiier own decisions, but i would be fairly confident that every one who has had a baby die would have done anything to prevent it, i have a close family member who lost a baby to sids, so i personally follow all the guidelines very carully.

Loislane78 Fri 16-Nov-12 20:54:59

OP - my 13 wk old goes to bed/sleep at 7 (sometimes earlier if tired) and usually wakes for feeds at 2 and 5 before getting up around 7. We have had 3 nights recently where she just woke once at 4am; I'm v lucky. She's done this according to her own body clock since about 7 weeks; realize now what I thought was evening fussiness was in fact over tiredness.

She is EBF and never had formula so I'm a believer its the baby not the feeding.

She sleeps in her own room now for a number of reasons, has done for a few weeks.

Mine slept 7pm-6am with feeds at 6.30pm, 10-11pm, and 2-3am, when he was being 90% BF (he normally had one bottle feed a day when he was small). Did that from about 3 weeks till he was 5 months, then he stopped the 2-3am feed, and then at 6 months dropped the 10pm feed.

Mine have all stayed with me for all naps and until i go to bed until aroud 6-7 months. dc5 is 8 months now and just recently started having her nap in another downstairs room and goes up to her cot at around 8pm. She sleeps from 8-11 has a feed then has another feed at 4. After this feed she normally just falls asleep in our bed. She is breastfed.

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