what would you do.....

(71 Posts)
goralka Tue 13-Nov-12 20:15:09

if your 13 year old son had been on a sleepover and there had been drink taken and someone engaged him in oral sex (ie he was giving it to a boy) and there was a webcam in the room and the video had been passed around and it was now very hard for him to deal with school? in a very small/close area?

Sparklingbrook Tue 13-Nov-12 20:17:44

Emigrate.

goralka Tue 13-Nov-12 20:20:10

hahahah exactly my reaction....;)

Sparklingbrook Tue 13-Nov-12 20:22:11

Right well seriously. I would be very worried about the company he was keeping but not know what the hell to do. It isn't your son is it goralka? Please say this doesn't really happen or am I really naive. sad

girliefriend Tue 13-Nov-12 20:22:22

omg what Sparklingbrook says shock

StrawberriesTasteLikeLipsDo Tue 13-Nov-12 20:24:09

Id wonder what type of company he was keeping. Premeditated to record it

goralka Tue 13-Nov-12 20:28:34

well yes it is my son, it all came out this evening, I am freaking you can imagine. Thank God he no longer keeps this company. We live in a very rural area where some of the ....things that amuse teenagers I have found quite shocking, being a simple London girl. Yes it really happened, it was back in the summer...but my son has just rejoined the school after some time at a tutorial centre, and it is all kicking off again.
My reaction is to move right away, he needs to get his GCSEs above all.
His dad is so homophobic it is unreal (from a more ...er...traditional country) and theres no way I can share this with him so MN advice gratefully received.

Sparklingbrook Tue 13-Nov-12 20:32:32

Oh goralka I really don't know what to say. You must be upset (understatement) angry, confused, just everything.....

Is there any way he could move schools, he really doesn't need this, it's just horrible.

<useless emoticon>

goralka Tue 13-Nov-12 20:33:25

not that I am with his dad, been a single mum for ages.

Sparklingbrook Tue 13-Nov-12 20:33:44

Totally understand you not wanting to tell his Dad. All v difficult. Is your DS ok?

goralka Tue 13-Nov-12 20:35:05

kind of limited choice on schools here.....and everyone knows everyone. bleeeee

goralka Tue 13-Nov-12 20:37:46

well he was crying earlier and I gave him a hug and told him not to worry and now he is upstairs watching tv with his sister and they sound quite happy.....
He was at pains to assure me that he is not gay...I did kind of know he might have ...er...kissed a boy...i told him that was the least of it and not to worry.

I'd report it to the police - that it had been videoed and that it was being distributed and who by - because of the legal implications. It's still classed as distribution of child pornography.

goralka Tue 13-Nov-12 20:45:57

oh fuck I hadnt even thought of that angle

goralka Tue 13-Nov-12 20:47:19

I would have SS on me like a ton of bricks

oreocrumbs Tue 13-Nov-12 21:02:47

I really think you need to report this to the police. And speak to the head at school asap.

Your poor son, this must be awful for both of you.

Sparklingbrook Tue 13-Nov-12 21:15:47

But what would SS do? It happened in the summer.

I do agree with reporting to the Police. Sorry.

Beamur Tue 13-Nov-12 21:19:23

My first thought was that you need to report this to the police.
I may be naive too, but I wouldn't consider this normal teenage behaviour either, for your son or his friends.
I'd maybe see if there is a bit more to this story - he may not be ready to reveal all in one go.

goralka Tue 13-Nov-12 21:24:30

SS round here are scary.
It's not normal is it?
I have quizzed him a bit more, it sounds like a set-up - there had been two other boys in the room who disappeared while it was happening. My son was drunk, they were all drunk.
he doesn't see them any more (or drink since another incident, also in the summer when a neighbour bought him a load of beers and he got sick and was taken to hospital. I thought that was bad at the time.)
fuck I am sitting here crying.

alexw Tue 13-Nov-12 21:25:26

Whoever videoed it could be in trouble for distribution of indecent images of children. Also there's the underage thing with regard to your son.

goralka Tue 13-Nov-12 21:26:34

they are all underage - the other boy is in his year at school.

Beamur Tue 13-Nov-12 21:28:58

You've done nothing wrong, but your son has possibly been the victim of a particulary horrible exploitative joke, which may also be breaking the law.
I think you need some advice from people with more experience and knowledge to go forward with how to approach and deal with this.

Sparklingbrook Tue 13-Nov-12 21:29:42

Well it isn't normal but they are teenage boys and drink had been consumed and the details are obviously sketchy. There is also the other lad who was receiving IYKWIM. What does he think or is it not obvious who that is?

So many questions goralka. None of it makes sense but it has happened. I am no help I know but I really feel for you. Don't cry.

Sparklingbrook Tue 13-Nov-12 21:31:51

I think that's the way to go Beamur you can't deal with this on your own goralka, you need some good advice.

goralka Tue 13-Nov-12 21:34:30

thank you sparklingbrook and everyone - the one who 'received' is known as 'Gay XXXXX' and blanks my son if they meet in the corridor at school. Several children have the video on their phones - my daughter knew about it for example because it was sent to her friend's phone. Quite apart from the legal ramifications he will never live this down.

Beamur Tue 13-Nov-12 21:37:16
Sparklingbrook Tue 13-Nov-12 21:42:26

I just wish there was something I could do or say goralka. Please consider speaking to somebody with authority or knowledge though. Is there anyone at the school that could help you?

mummaxmas Tue 13-Nov-12 21:47:03

Oh god mums worst nightmare, I imagine your feeling his pain more as he doesn't understand the whole of it. I would go to school head, have the video wiped out and have him shrug it off ! Then push him in the direction of some good kids and cross your fingers ! Big hugs x

goralka Tue 13-Nov-12 21:47:14

thanks for the good link Beamur
Sparklingbrook I hesitate to confide in anyone in authority about this, really.

Please don't cry. This is a horrible situation, but I do honestly think you need to speak to the police and the school.

Sparklingbrook Tue 13-Nov-12 22:09:47

I do understand that goralka but I am worried that it's the only way to move forward in the long run. sad

NatashaBee Tue 13-Nov-12 22:19:54

I would speak to the police, I would hate the thought of that video falling into (any more of the) wrong hands. It's not really clear - was this consensual or was he plied with drink to get him to do it? Where did the alcohol come from?

goralka Tue 13-Nov-12 22:23:43

I think he was plied with drink from what I can make out. I do not know exactly where the alcohol came from, possibly an older friend who was not involved in this, possibly the mother of the charming host. The school nurse told me ages ago that this boy was bad news.

QTPie Tue 13-Nov-12 22:29:54

Hi

I am so sorry for all of you - must be rough. It really sounds as though your son was taken advantage of. I am sorry, but I am disgusted at the kids who videos it (and most likely set it up). I know of something similar happening a few years ago - nasty sad

Personally, I would:
- reassure your son that, whatever, you love him unconditionally and support him.
- if it is practical to move (but only if it is a practcal option), I would ask you son and daughter how they felt about moving (and changing school). Unless you move a long way (and even then) it may follow you (hopefully not, but you never know who knows who).
- if you do stay, I would look at talking to the school and possibly involving the police (although only with your son's agreement): someone really should scare the poo out of the perpetrators...

I am so sorry - take care of yourself and your son.

NatashaBee Tue 13-Nov-12 22:32:27

If it wasn't something he wanted to do or would have done sober, then it's abuse.

Sparklingbrook Wed 14-Nov-12 09:04:13

Where do the parents whose house this happened at fit into all this?

goralka Wed 14-Nov-12 09:48:40

hmmm I feel like telling the mum...single working mum, older brothers, big house, that's all I know.
Son has refused to go to school this morning.

Sparklingbrook Wed 14-Nov-12 09:50:01

I don't blame him TBH goralka. Are you feeling a bit better?

Sparklingbrook Wed 14-Nov-12 09:51:51

I think the parents should know. I would want to know if this had gone on in my house. Under age drinking is just the tip of the iceberg here. They should know, because there will be another sleepover no doubt.....

Beamur Wed 14-Nov-12 09:59:06

I think keeping him off school for a couple of days is a good idea, you've both had a big shock and need some time.

goralka Wed 14-Nov-12 10:05:44

thanks for good advice and concern, both of you. I am not as upset as last night, more thinking of the practicalities of it all.......
again he is assuring me that he not gay, I am like I DO NOT MIND!!

Sparklingbrook Wed 14-Nov-12 10:10:13

Oh poor DS. He must think that's your main concern. sad I don't really know what to add other than as a Mum of a 13 year old boy it's not easy.

Beamur Wed 14-Nov-12 10:19:29

I wonder if your son is having some issues about his sexual identity too, which would make this exposure all the more painful. Poor lad.

goralka Wed 14-Nov-12 10:33:20

oh yeh he is camp as Christmas when he feels like it, skipping about in girls' clothes - into drama and design, so not alpha male iykwim.
His twin sister says he is bi and she knows him best.

goralka Wed 14-Nov-12 10:35:12

and what has really upset me more is that the 'receiver' also burnt his arm with a hot lighter that night.
It is all so abusive.
I just want to move back to London.

pictish Wed 14-Nov-12 10:40:31

Awwwww your poor poor son! I feel very very sorry for him indeed. This is just awful! sad

I agree with ringing the police and seeking advice.

Your instinct to protect him must be going into overdrive. I really hope you get closure on this.
I want to hug him myself! dearie me!

matana Wed 14-Nov-12 10:57:46

You say he's at pains to tell you he's not gay, but that's not really the issue here is it? If he's gay, he's gay - though i accept you don't believe he is. Teenage boys are odd and do odd things when in a group, especially if alcohol is consumed. I would probably have concentrated on explaining to him that the reason it's shocking is not because of the homosexual aspects to the incident, but because of the alcohol, the fact that he's so young and should have respect for himself (body and mind) and this is actually sexual assault in law, regardless of whether your son was a willing participant. It's also sexual exploitation/ humiliation/ bullying etc. The fact that your DP is homophobic is a very big issue too as it's a massive 'secret' to be keeping which i don't believe is healthy at all. Though you are doing right by loving him, reassuring him, being there for him etc. I too would be thinking of going to the police and would have discrete discussions with the school without your DS present (due to his embarrassment) - perhaps actually talking to the police and head teacher in the same room. Does he have other friends who are now supporting him? Ime it's easier to handle bullying if there is a core group of friends who continue to be there for him. It's also more effective to deal with situations like this with both parents knowing the full facts. At the moment your son is keeping a 'dirty little secret' which will only add to his feelings of humiliation and shame.

steppemum Wed 14-Nov-12 11:01:59

I think you need some advice. Try and phone NSPCC or childline and ask for advice.

I seem to remember a similar case to this and the police got involved. They were nice, but firm and made sure the image was gone form eveyrone's phones, and made sure the kids understood it was illegal. it gave the ones passing the image round a sobering scare and effectively put an end to it. But of course there is no guarantee that would be the outcome.

I would talk to the school. I would take the line someone mentioned above. Someone got him drunk and then took advantage of him in a sick exploitative joke, and the images are going round school. I don't know what they can do, but they presumably have to deal with incidents like this occasionally?

And I would talk to the mum, even if it is only to tell her what happened. She needs to know even if she is not receptive to the information.

What a sad mess for your ds sad

So sorry for all of you goralka, it's a hideous situation. I think if it was me I'd go to the police because of all the reasons above but I'd also move. You're right that s/s may get involved when you contact the police but from what you've posted can't see that you'd have anything to worry about, would hope their input would be to support your family.

I think your right that he'll never live this down, not that he's done anything to be ashamed of, but I come from a very rural area and know what you're saying about gossip and rumours.

Telling your x is tricky, he has a right to know about it but if he's going to make the situation worse by judging your ds then I'm not sure I would.

goralka Wed 14-Nov-12 11:12:45

matana I thought I had made it clear that his sexuality is not the issue? and where did I say that I don't believe that he is exactly? honestly if you are going to reply, please read the thread first and don't make assumptions.
If you honestly think that sharing this with a homophobic Pole is a good idea.....please think again,I know what those people are like, trust me IT IS NOT a GOOD IDEA.
No 'core group' friends are supporting him, no.
And honestly if you think I am going to discuss this with police and school without his permission....just no way.
Mostly the school are interested in attendence and wearing the correct colour shoes.
The police here are scary.
I might go and tell the host's mum tho, I know exactly where she works.

BobbiFleckmann Wed 14-Nov-12 11:17:44

give the poor boy a hug. His sister will probably be taking some flack too. Good luck. Personally wouldn't involve police unless & until I had another school lined up for both of them. xx

matana Wed 14-Nov-12 11:30:46

Woah, hang on there goralka! What i've tried to do is offer advice, which you asked for and which has been suggested by others (re. school/ police etc.) I have also said you're doing right by loving him, reassuring him etc. I understand you're very upset by this, but please don't think i'm being an arse.

What i am trying to say is that even if homosexuality is not an issue for you, it is clearly an issue for your DS and he is obviously focussing very heavily on it - which is why i said, try to take that element out of it altogether when speaking to him and concentrate on the fact that it's essentially abuse. And i was not recommending not getting his permission. What i meant by 'discrete' was keeping it as quiet as possible from other people who are involved, i.e. from the people who are doing this to him. I was bullied at school and the thought of people knowing that my parents were speaking to the school was worse than the bullying itself. Had others known my parents were involved the bullies would simply have upped their game. The school/ police might have advice.

I would still seriously speak to the police and leave it to them to speak to the host's mum because they are more used to dealing with potentially confrontational situations. Contrary to popular belief they can be very sensitive in these situations, as someone else up thread has said. Even if you don't plan to be confrontational, the chances are the other boy's mother will be extremely defensive.

goralka Wed 14-Nov-12 11:35:28

thank you matana, it is all good advice. I must apologise for being snappy, just a tad overwrought at the moment.....

I would try and talk to social services if you can. Whatever the context, the details, and where you go from here, your son was a victim of sexual abuse. Otherwise, if it has been distributed and another parent finds out and report you, your covering it up will look much worse to them.

sweetfluffybunnies Wed 14-Nov-12 12:00:54

I think you have two options:
-move schools
-talk to his current school about this.

I speak from experience as I was in a similar position to you a few months ago with my dd. Fortunately for her the video did not get passed around, but everyone knew what she had done. She did not want the school to know what had happened but in the end they found out anyway, and were really amazing and supportive. The perpetrators were dealt with severely and dd was given support and counselling to deal with the bullying and the lack of self-esteem which lead to the incident in the first place.

I completely empathise with how you are feeling; I felt my world had fallen apart. But in the end I wished I had gone to the school straight away, it would have nipped the bullying in the bud and saved weeks of extreme angst for dd.

I really think doing nothing is not an option. This will not go away on its own. I completely understand how your ds does not want his school to know, but honestly they deal with this sort of thing alot (although this seems like a particularly bad case to me). At the very least your ds will need support to face his schoolmates again. He can't stay home forever. And as someone else pointed out, this is abuse and the abusers need to be made to stop.

If you really can't face the school then it would seem you have no option but to move away. However from my own experience, although of course I wish it had never happened, at least my dd has had a valuable lesson in actions and consequences, and by facing up to her school mates she has become a very strong person, and also learned not to judge others in the way she herself was judged.

I wish you well, you will need strength and love to support your ds through this - and it sounds like you have plenty of both.

Agree with Matana about not approaching the parents yourself. Can totally understand you wanting to get ds's permission before approaching the police,but, if it's a small community it'll get to their attention anyway. Much better coming from you I reckon.
Have a chat to Childline or NSPCC anonymously and then speak to your ds again about it.

It sounds like you're doing your absolute best for your son and that he knows he's loved. Things will get better, it'll just take some time and work.

Have you got family/friends around? Keep coming back here at the very least, it's important to have an outlet.

Sparklingbrook Wed 14-Nov-12 12:04:11

You do need to tell the host's mum. This happened in her house after all. Does that not make her more than an bit responsible? They are children.

When DS1 goes on a sleepover I expect him to be looked after. He is only 13. I thought watching an 18 film was as bad as it got. sad

Should mention I only think you should go to the police because of the video being passed round, not that he's done anything wrong.

steppemum Wed 14-Nov-12 12:14:38

when my brothers were 13 and 14, they would have got up to stuff like this, if left alone at a sleepover/party. Drinking alcohol and stupid sex stuff (like masturbation competitions)
I am not sure how much of it they would have been mortified about after wards, especially if they had been drinking.
I find/found it shocking as I was a little innocent, but one of my closest friends lost her virginity in a hay barn on a pony club camp at 13.

I think there is probably a lot more teenage sex out there than we like to think. The troubling thing about this is that it has been videoed and the video is doing the rounds.
I agree about the contacting anyone in authority without his permission, but I still think it would be worth trying to contact someone who can give you advice, like child line

steppemum Wed 14-Nov-12 12:18:42

sorry, didn't mean to belittle the act, I agree he was tricked into it, and wasn't in a position to be consenting. I just wanted to flag up what there is out there.

Sparklingbrook Wed 14-Nov-12 12:20:22

Where did the alcohol come from?

The other side of this is to be worried about what hands the video can fall in to and what motivated the other boy involved. I only say this as research has shown that children who abuse are usually victims of abuse themselves. Could be that by reporting it officially you'd be helping more than your son.

I know your son is your priority here and now and really don't want to guilt trip or pressurise you but the it's a consideration in whatever you decide.

QTPie Wed 14-Nov-12 13:40:26

Personally I am not sure that I would tell the host's mum - unless you are very close to her, I have an awful feeling that you might get denial/abuse/disbelief back...

If school is where the current problem is, then that us where I would go - it is the behaviour of the other kids in reaction to it, isn't it? A good school should tackle that.

But I would be VERY careful - just in relation to your son, his state of mind and any "desperation". Boy's can often feel so trapped, desperate and "no way out" of situations like this, that they do something desperate. So the important thing is him and do what he feels best and what helps him to cope and get through it (he will!) - regardless of whether it would be your choice of what to do or not.... Does thar make sense?

goralka Wed 14-Nov-12 15:25:31

sparklingbrook get this, the mother supplies the host boy with strong alcohol and tobacco - he is 15 but in the same school year as my son due to being held back a year back in primary.
Good points from everyone, thanks again.

LadyInDisguise Wed 14-Nov-12 15:41:52

Have you tried and contacted the NSCCP? I think they would be really good advice, you won't have to give your name etc... It's not like involving the Police, SS etc... but they WILL be able to give some directions as to you HAVE to do, what might be better to do and so on.

Agree about the fact your ds seems to need some reassurance that the act itself isn't an issue (if this was done in the right circumstances). It seems that he is worried you might have 'similar' reactions to his dad about it?

goralka Wed 14-Nov-12 15:46:00

nah he knows my views on such things...

LadyInDisguise Wed 14-Nov-12 15:56:31

That's good smile

Have you talked to anyone in RL about it?

goralka Wed 14-Nov-12 16:01:35

I kind of mentioned it to my dad without going into details about what the act was....he was a bit .....gobsmacked...

Chunkamatic Wed 14-Nov-12 16:08:40

My goodness I am so shocked and feel so so sad for your son that he has been so taken advantage of.
You sound like a lovely Mum with his best interests so I believe he will get the support from you that he needs.
I have no practical advice but would maybe go along with speaking to someone anonymously (nspcc) just so you can get an understanding of how the law views what happened and what they believe the best course of action to be.
Good luck in sorting this out.

cory Wed 14-Nov-12 16:31:09

I think you need to persuade your ds that the only way to put a stop to this is to involve the school and the police; otherwise it will follow him for a long time. It is illegal, the police can and will deal with it.

The best thing would be to set up a meeting with the three of you.

catstail Tue 20-Nov-12 20:37:17

i think you should phone nspcc urgently and annonymously, you can withhold your number if you like.

you need to understand from a professional and impartial perspective whether this is a child protection/child abuse issue - and you need to do it without disclosing your identity, please call them, let us know what they say

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