On becoming Mary Poppins... Toddler and newborn support thread #2

(883 Posts)
ThePinkNinja Thu 08-Nov-12 09:38:53

A place to continue the complaining conversation about the hair pulling days and sleepless nights fun and frolics of life with a toddler and newborn

crazypaving Thu 08-Nov-12 11:30:04


eversomuch Thu 08-Nov-12 15:25:17

Hello! DS is six days old and DD is almost 20 months old. At the moment, I'm enjoying a quiet, sleepy newborn and a toddler who's being well spoiled by her visiting grandparents, but I expect to be clinging to the last threads of my sanity and seeking the wisdom of the masses very soon.

KnockedUpMell Thu 08-Nov-12 15:30:14

Ooh can I join please. Dd is 3w tomorrow and DS is 20m too. At the moment he is waking as frequently as she is, and is a nightmare to put to bed. On the plus side he's moved on from looking at her and saying 'gone' to looking at her and saying 'wah wah wah' (as in babies on the bus go wah wah wah!). My mum is staying with us for another 5 weeks but I am already dreading managing without help.

RosannaBanana Thu 08-Nov-12 17:57:17

Hello all, can I join too? Not sure of DS qualifies as a toddler anymore- he's nearly 3. DD is 11 weeks- so not really a newborn either! We have good days and bad days...

crazypaving Thu 08-Nov-12 20:17:51

Ninja thank you for starting this again, was starting to feel a bit tumbleweedy on the last thread!

DS2 is now 5 weeks exactly, DS1 turned 2 on Saturday! Each day is such a rollercoaster of ups and downs. My childminder is off for 3 weeks as of now, so I no longer have 2 days a week with DS2 alone. ARGH!!

I'm really focussing on trying to stay on an even keel and not let my emotions get the better of me. I tend to swing wildly from "everything's simply marvellous" to "the end of the world has come, abandon ship" over the course of...well, minutes, frankly. Trying to remember that as bad as things get, they can be lovely too - sometimes....

I'm still really missing my time with DS1 and still feeling so guilty about how his life has changed for the worse at the moment. DS2 has just started smiling though which is lovely smile

And flipping nora I could do with some sleep....

Hello to everyone else - glad you're here!!

AngelDog Thu 08-Nov-12 21:20:24

Hello. We are doing surprisingly well after a rocky start with 2.10 y.o. DS1 and 3.5 week old DS2. DS2 is a champion so far and even slept for 7 hours the other night, though it was preceded by 4 hours of non-stop feeding. DS1 was a fantastic sleeper till 3 weeks and has been dreadful ever since, so I'm not counting my chickens yet...

Our biggest challenge is getting up & out before 11am - I bf them both and it takes well over an hour after waking before I can actually get out of bed. hmm

ThePinkNinja Thu 08-Nov-12 23:03:18

Yay!! Am so pleased everyone is finding their way here....
And I should have put toddler and baby/ newborn in title smile that's more the point isn't it....

Hope everyone has a sleep filled night.... My little milk monster ds2 doesn't seem to understand the concept of sleeping for more than 2 hours in a go...

Gnight x

Twobuttonsaway Fri 09-Nov-12 07:44:48

Good morning, do you mind if I join? Am currently blearily feeding DS2 who is 4 weeks while encouraging DS1 aged 4 to EAT YOUT CEREAL PLEASE! Today is my first day of doing school run on my tod! So far so good..... Not feeling too bad consider DS2 kept me awake from 2-5am!

I'm in! Ds is 3 weeks and dd 22 months - had my first day of double trouble yesterday, dd is back at nursery today - phew!! Days with just ds are a dream....

Can I say hi? I popped in and out of the other thread, but my 'newborns' are 7 months old now (dts) and my DD is 26 months today, and I am only just now, maybe possibly, coping a bit better with all 3 if I'm only alone with them very briefly! Do i qualify?! I'm certainly barely muddling along.... I have roped in loads of help though and have still only had a handful of full days with no help. Mornings are ok, but with dts dreadful sleepers I am barely functioning by the afternoon... <useless emoticon>

crazypaving Sat 10-Nov-12 11:14:31

Wow, dreaming, hats off to you - twins and a 19 month age gap?! Not surprised you're only just keeping your head above water...well done you!

I'm thinking of getting a bit of help for a few hours a day a couple of days a week blush Finding it really hard to cope with 2 littlies...another useless emoticon! In my defence I have absolutely no family support beyond my (very wonderful) DH...

Whoahthere do you ever wonder why you found it so hard with just one newborn? Coping with one child or the other is so easy, but 2? Gah!

crazypaving Sat 10-Nov-12 11:22:15

oh also can I ask how people do mealtimes? At the moment I have DS2 in a sling and bounce madly round the room while he screams a bit and DS1 sits and eats looking a bit lonely and fed up sad It means I don't get to eat much/at all and it's not much fun for anyone. Is there a better way or do I just have to keep bouncing until DS2 cheers up a bit?!

Misschicken Sat 10-Nov-12 12:26:17

Crazy - I always give DS (22 months) finger food at lunch so he can wander round eating. Granted, the carpet is in a bit of a state but what the hell. At dinner time he is on the highchair and he has his meal with dd (14 weeks) sat in seat on table opposite him as she likes to watch him. I eat lunch on the hop and rely heavily on snack a jacks. Often eat when dd is on gym. I eat dinner when they have both gone to bed, ds at 7 and dd 8/9 ish.

crazypaving Sat 10-Nov-12 12:31:20

thanks misschicken. DS2 is only 5wks so too small to find much interesting but you give me hope for the future! My DH would have an actual breakdown if I let DS1 roam free with food...

Erm, for me, bounce til the dts cheered up, which was only about 4 months old or so. Sorry... There may be a better way but i haven't found it. classic dm helped calm us all a bit, even though i don't like classical music... Yes, my DD was nearly 19 months old when the boys were born. Tough times, feeding was a nightmare- all 3! But she's a bit more independent week by week now, though clumsy for her age.

Classic fm I meant, lots of singing from me & counting to 10 in my head while chanting this too shall pass

Definitely hope, the dts adore watching DD now. I'm struggling with meals as I need to help all three. I'm doing a mix of blw and pouches. Time to cook is hard though, so not ideal.

crazy yes - looking back now I've no idea why having a newborn the first time was so difficult - it's ridiculously easy by comparison!!

God, the sling bouncing - ds seems to be a very grumpy baby, it's the only way I can get through mealtimes too....

When do they stop crying ALL the time again?

RosannaBanana Sat 10-Nov-12 19:19:38

crazypaving for mealtimes DD (now 12 weeks) usually sits in this. As long as she's not hungry or too tired she will sit happily in it by the table. Actually she's fallen asleep in it a few times even if she is tired! She can move it herself but I can also jig it with my foot. They are really comfy, multiple seat positions etc and we got ours cheap off ebay...

RosannaBanana Sat 10-Nov-12 19:20:40

Oh should have said she was in it from around 4/5 weeks.

rosanna snap, we have one of those, they're great, I could jig one twin with my foot, feed or sling the other, feed DD if alone. I usually had help when they were littler, so I'd feed both or feed one and foot bounce one to try and stop them screaming and putting easily distractable DD off eating (she hates them crying...). Didn't solve the problem for me but they do like it.

AngelDog Sat 10-Nov-12 23:23:21

crazy, with DS1 I used to stand bouncing by the worksurface eating one-handed with a spoon while everyone else sat at the table as normal. Odd, but allowed me to kind-of join in.

ellesabe Sun 11-Nov-12 10:38:12

Hi all,

Dd2 was born on Tuesday and I have a 23mo dd1.

We have been home for 3 nights and feel like we're still in a bit of a honeymoon period but I'm still quite sore from emcs and dd1's behaviour is starting to push the limits a bit.

If I ask her to do something and she point-blank refuses, what the heck do I do??? I'm obviously not allowed to lift her at all due to scar...

ellesabe Sun 11-Nov-12 10:40:03

Luckily dd2 is sleeping and feeding like a dream so far ...it's the toddler causing the headaches!

Oh and dd1 wend into a bed about a month ago and my idiot dh taught her how to climb out of it so we've got bedtime antics to contend with every night angry

crazypaving Sun 11-Nov-12 11:51:08

Rosanna thanks, we have one of those. Very envy of people with babies who fall asleep in it. DS is going in it now for periods of time happily - just have to be lucky for them to coincide with mealtimes!

AngelDog one day we will have a kitchen diner...one day...

My childminder is off for the next 3 weeks - that's 2 days of peace per week down the drain, and 5 full days to fill! Aaaaaaaaaagghhhh!!

ellesabe Sun 11-Nov-12 18:32:57

I have just about HAD IT with dd1.

She has been a pain in the ass all day. Whatever we ask her to do she just ignores, says "no" or laughs and does the complete opposite. She has refused to eat what we've given her for meals, instead shouting for bananas, and has been whinging/moaning/demanding all day for everything under the sun.

I just realised that the only times I've properly enjoyed over the past two days have been the two occasions when dh has taken dd1 out and I've been at home on my own with the baby. I feel like I can't even bear to be around dd1 when she is like this sad

Please someone tell me that this is just a phase as she is dealing with the new baby and that it will end soon.

Yep elles definitely 100% just a phase. My DD has had a couple of extremely annoying ones since dts born, but is currently lovely sometimes . Hang in there and positive praise for absolutely everything she does that's kind/ nice /as instructed for a bit smile Helped me anyway.

Xenia Sun 11-Nov-12 18:39:48

Can I just strongly recommend returning to full time work when the baby is 2 weeks as I did? Works a treat. You get 30 minutes on a train reading a novel, then people who treat you well at work and a rest and chance to sit on the loo without being mauled (and I did express breast milk at work) and then lovely babies at 6 when you get home.

crazypaving Sun 11-Nov-12 19:28:54

Xenia actually very envy oooooo reading on a train in peace. Wouldn't care if I had my face in someone's sweaty armpit.

Xenia Sun 11-Nov-12 20:25:46

I lived far enough out that usually you would get a seat first thing and I certainly remember that break where no child was suckling, no toddler was kicking or being sick and no one crying and you could just sit and be a person for 30 minutes. I have never understood why people ask how I coped with working full time with 3 children under 5. It is massively easier and you get paid a lot andget appreciated than being home with small children. I am not exactly breaking rocks for a living so sitting at a desk even if you are still lightly bleeding after a birth is definitely much less onerous than trying to feed a baby whilst the toddler kicks you and the 4 year old is considering drawing on the wall.

Ooh please can I join? DS is 21 months and DD 3 weeks and I shall need all the tips I can get! DS is just starting to come out of the babymoon phase and is just running around switching lights and plugs on and off, touching the tv/oven/taking books off shelves/standing on furniture and doing lots of whinging/screeching and asking for milk basically by shouting it at the top of his lungs! We have large chunks of the day where he's an absolute dream and is so affectionate with her but it's obviously all taking its toll and from about 4.30 each evening is a total nightmare!

DD seems to be coming out of the sleeping all the time phase a little bit and wants to feed or be held constantly. I feel like a shouty pissed off dairy cow! And the dark circles under my eyes are horrendous despite getting a pretty good sleep every night so far

its nice to read all these posts from others in the same boat, I shall be checking back for tips regularly!

ellesabe Mon 12-Nov-12 10:09:22

Well after lots of tears yesterday, we decided that today would be a new day and are having a much nicer time already.
We are leaping on every single little good thing that dd1 does and just piling on the praise. It seems to be working so I think the behaviour yesterday was pure attention-seeking.
It's so relentless isn't it??

RosannaBanana Mon 12-Nov-12 10:44:49

Hello all. I agree about the nightmare toddler phase after baby born- we are slowly emerging from it- fingers crossed!- and DD is 12 weeks. Positive attention is great, and I found one on one time with someone- me, DH or my mum- really helped enormously.

Xenia- can I just ask- in a totally non judgy manner, as I've been there, in a way- did you not find it difficult to be away from your babies when they were so young? Don't want to derail the thread but am just very curious.

crazypaving Mon 12-Nov-12 12:22:43

argh having screamy day from hell. DS1 miserable, just want to give him cuddles but the baby will. not. be put down and if I try to cuddle him he kicks me sad

Thank God both asleep at the mo - of course can't put DS2 down to get anything done hmm and DS1 will probably wake up crying shortly, but a few minutes' peace is sheer bliss.

I need to find my inner saint. She was nowhere to be found this morning.

ThePinkNinja Mon 12-Nov-12 19:22:06

Hi crazy sorry for the tough day. Hope they are in bed now/ soon and you get a break xx

I had an equally tough day sad ds1's childminder "cancelled" our contract :| more on that later. I'm so angry I have a headache. Also angry that I haven't had a break or help (in the day) for weeks and now who knows when I will sad

Boys also been challenging ds2 currently attached and won't flipping go to sleep whilst ds1 shouting mummy mummy mummy from his cot next door and trying to demand to take all manner of toys and food to bed with him (this weeks new attempt at stalling bedtime.)

Feel so angry at ex childminder I want to cry. Will explain more when - if ever- I get these kids to bed, eat some food, calm down and have a moment sad

ThePinkNinja Tue 13-Nov-12 07:41:56

Hmmm not much better today. Wrote to childminder last night about her cancelling- with less than 24 hours notice. I feel slightly less angry as at least I've shared what I'm not happy about. But it doesn't change that she was ds1s first carer outside the home and she's ended it poorly.

And I won't get any breaks now (ds1 went twice a week for 3 hours...)

To really start my day nicely ds2 fed hourly. Yes hourly. Through the night.
I'm not really sure what's going on with him as usually he is much less whiney sad although he does still often feed 2 hourly through the night from 1 or 2 am...

How's everyone else?

Horrible. I can't complain as dd is at nursery 3 days a week (have just dropped her off) but poor ds seems really unhappy, crying/screaming loads, writhing around in pain and not feeding properly because he keeps pulling off the boob when his tummy hurts. Dd has just realised that ds is here to stay so wants to be with me the whole time and has started getting up at 5.


Love how I started by saying 'I can't complain' then proceeded to do just that!!

Hi pinkninja how old are your DC? Could DS2 be going through a development leap or a growth spurt? The whinging is common with a development leap www.thewonderweeks.com

I had a better day yesterday, DS napped for 2.5 hours - a record for him, I'm usually lucky to get an hour... And DD slept all night only waking twice briefly for a feed. However she is 3 days away from the 1st leap so I'm expecting all Hell to break loose with her soon.

DS is definitely pushing boundaries - I am often unsure how to handle it, I shouted at him yesterday and was a bit rough putting him on the sofa to get his shoes and socks on. He was messing about and DD was screaming and I needed to go out for my whooping cough jab, I was in a hurry because DD had been feeding all morning.. I tried not to beat myself up about it all day but I'm disappointed that I lost it, it's not the way I want to parent at all.

I suppose there's going to be good and bad days and we just have to accept that, but I feel like I'm on an emotional roller coaster at the moment!

ThePinkNinja Tue 13-Nov-12 09:07:04

Well at least it means I am not here complaining on my own smile

Ds2 does seem to be struggling but I can see to figure it out.... Maybe he is in fact a bit colicky? Its primarily through the night.... I don't know....

Can't believe it's only Tuesday.

How are people dealing with toddlers pushing boundaries? The bed time one in particular, taking toys and books to bed, demanding lights on/off, refusing sleeping bag, etc etc - and of course the getting up at 5 thing. I feel so sorry for dd that her world has changed and I know she's just reacting to the change, but I don't know if I should be letting her off a bit or maintaining a stricter approach? Would love anyone else's view on this...

ThePinkNinja Tue 13-Nov-12 09:15:23

Hi cup of tea smile
Ds2 is 8 weeks. I have the book but must admit.... I just didn't "get it" the first time.... And didn't finish it (probably as ds1 didn't sleep, had colic and reflux and was generally hard work in the beginning sad )

I'll go have a look at it, smile thanks for the tip she says running upstairs hoping the book has the answers to save the week from its descent to hellish levels

Also don't feel bad re losing it. We all do it ... It's not the best but it's real. She has probably forgotten it already and it's a new day smile

I'm on the same roller coaster, and ds1 knows just how to push all my buttons.... and really seems to enjoy doing it

ThePinkNinja Tue 13-Nov-12 09:47:26

Crazy horse ds1 pushing boundaries here too....
Our approach (as advised by health visitor and a fe parent friends) has been to react to him in a consistent approach and manner as we would have done before the baby. The idea is that he knows the baby is here, and actually is fine with that as long as he feels that hus relationship with us has not changed and that he can still expect consistancy from us. He is testing that all is the same....

So I tend to try to keep the same approach and response re discipline as we did before. That said we have introduced the time out stool for serious or serial repeat offences. ( he did hit out at ds2 once when he was upset at me, and sometimes to get attention he will repeat behaviours he knows are not appropriate- driving cars on the tv etc. )

Additionally I'm really trying to continue the same positive routines we had (morning kisses, I always go in for a bedtime song after daddy does most of bedtime, etc etc) also really trying to encourage some new skills and give him some new challenges (encouraging him to hold the rail and practice coming down the stairs on his own - with him a step ahead of him should he let go) also we are swapping out his toys weekly to try to keep his mind busy and give him more things to be interested in. (just before ds2 was born I divided ds1's toys into 5 totes and put them into the loft. We basically pack up old toys and get a "new" tote down each week or 2. He really enjoys the new toys and goes into the playroom more willingly. It also means that as his mind is busier he has less time to get up to mischief and push boundaries

That's what we are doing so far smile not perfect but his behavious has improved from a few weeks ago although he has moved on to new tricks like regressing to using baby toys and wanting to lie in ds2's crib etc

ThePinkNinja Tue 13-Nov-12 09:49:55

Me a step ahead of him

Not him a step ahead of him....

Anyway what is everyone else doing?

ThePinkNinja Tue 13-Nov-12 12:47:23


Just realised as i was desperately fighting with ds1 to get Him into his grobag, and he was trying to get tickles and cause a ruckus that I went off topic - sort of smile

The bedtime one in particular we were having trouble with before ds2 arrived.... Some nights it was taking up to 3 hrs whereas before it was taking 15 minutes or so on most nights.

We "couldn't figure out" what the problem was then realised that actually we had "slipped into the habit if over parenting" (I read baby whisperer for some stuff and find that for me it does tend to help find a good approach.)

So I thought about what had worked for ds1 in the past - being v careful not to do "rewarding behaviour" such as extra cuddles more books / more songs etc and also little / no stimulation- ie no lights, hushed voices, no eye contact.... It worked when he was a baby, so I said to DH that it was worth a try.

Please don't mistake this for like cc. I can't stand to let my dc cry.... But I am not totally soft, we aren't allowing extra toys or extra drinks (he is offered a drink during stories) and it complying for requests for food even when he begs "please flakes" (corn flakes).

If he is genuinely upset we cuddle or whatever until he is settled down we then repeat the final bit of the routine.

The first bit of his routine is dinner/ bath/ stories/ light off/ song while tucking in then we switch on his projector star thing and say love you etc and leave.

So when he is just fussing etc or needs a retuck now I am :
going in, not making eye contact, maybe covering him up if needed, reswitching on the star, then we repeat in a very dull voice "ds1 you are very tired. It is bedtime and you need to go to sleep. Good night." DH always adds I love you. I try to keep it all v plain.

After 3 nights of slightly more protest it has worked a charm and he is back to going to sleep in a reasonable time more often again except the days where we are bad parents and keep him up too late (8pm) by going out running errands and miss the "window"

Hth xx

crazypaving Tue 13-Nov-12 19:22:51

Ninja is your childminder breaking her contract? That is seriously crap. poor you sad

crazyhorse I'm just trying as hard as I can to be consistent with DS1, but struggling to remember what consistent looks like!!

I'm finding the days so exhausting. Entertain DS1 til nap time, then spend nap time bouncing DS2 wildly to stop him crying, then entertain DS1 til supper time, then bedtime madness. Just. So. Tired. And DS2 has fed nearly every hour today - 6 week growth spurt at 5+5? Please, whatever it is, let it be over soon!

Trying to make it out to some groups for DS1 but DS2 isn't the kind of baby to sleep angelically in his carseat - I have to bounce him around in the sling, which isn't the most fun for DS1 or me. This will get better soon, right?!

Wow I'm well moany innit grin

poppy283 Tue 13-Nov-12 21:36:18

Hello, may I join in? Dd is 2.4 and ds is 3 months today.

Sorry everyone's having a hellish time iof it, me too! Trying to settle Dd in at nursery, plus she's discovered the joys of mealtime battles. Also she wants to leaveany group half an hour after we get there which i'm finding rather frustrating.

Feel so guilty that ds is a dream baby so far.

I did get half an hour with them both asleep today though which lifted my mood no end smile

Erm, I feel like a bit of an imposter with my positively aged dts.... (7 months) but bloody hell weaning is hard work. They can't decide from one day to the next if they'd like to be spoon fed or do blw, DD keeps pulling DT2's fingers out of his mouth and making him cry (he's good at self soothing), keeps trying to roll them onto their tummy as she sees me do, while I deal with one, she might be eg lying on top of the other, but while I'm a bit stuck with a pooey baby or something... And my dad came as reinforcements from 11am...

I think I'm finding it all overwhelming as I'm really, really tired. Sleeping badly, I've got a stinking cold, and DT1 normally wakes 3 times at beat, DT2 twice, maybe overlapping with one wake up, so I'm up 4 times a night easily before the enslaught begins again...

For getting out, I decided early on I was happy with buggy naps, and don't care if they never nap in their cots in the day. So i get the buggy out going into groups and try and walk/ rock them to sleep in it with varying degrees of success . A good friend once continually rocked the babies for me so I got half an hour with DD and a brew at a playgroup. Magic. I guess sling- sleeping is easier, as no buggy to get out, but more limiting for playing with dc1. Maybe a bit of both would be a compromise... Playgroups and exercising/ stimulating the toddler help me a lot. Poor twins get a bum deal, they are in a buggy a lot as I find it easier being out than in. I worked out when they were younger & still now quite a bit they're strapped in buggy/car seat for up to 6 hours a day... And that's not even counting bouncy chairs I didn't dare

AngelDog Tue 13-Nov-12 22:59:25

Gah, wrote a long post and silly computer lost it. Hello to everyone.

I enjoyed reading this about a new baby in the family.

DS1 has been annoying me despite having been out with DH all day. I don't feel that I like him very much at the moment. sad

I got quite a bit done today, though not as much as I would have liked. We're moving house in the New Year so have loads of decluttering / organising / DIY to do.

I'm struggling with lack of adult company due to being unable to make it out in time for any of our usual groups (all morning ones).

Ninja I've got the book too.. But didn't get to read it until DS had almost gone through all the leaps for the same reasons; he cried all the time, didn't nap, got overtired so cried more and had silent reflux - have you got a smartphone? The app is really good, it has the basics but more helpfully if you put your baby's due date in it tells you when they're due a leap. You can't cure the crying, clinginess or crankiness but I found that if I at least knew the reason for it I could be sympathetic and know it would come to an end because all bad things with babies feel like they're going to last forever

Not having a good day. Every time I put DD down she screams but if I pick her up DS is climbing on the furniture turning lights on and off and pulling books off the shelves. Please tell me it gets better! How's everyone else doing today?

crazypaving Wed 14-Nov-12 19:05:13

Hi CupOfTea sorry you've had a crap day - they do tend to both kick off on the same day, don't they? Tomorrow will be a new day! Everyone says it gets better...they can't all be lying, right?! Just who knows when or how...

I've had a lovely day (sorry), DH had day off, both children being angelic (of course hmm), in fact DS2 has spent almost all day asleep. Typical, the last 2 days he's spent mostly awake and unhappy. I am terrified that tonight we will get no sleep as a result...eek! Always expect the worst, so you can be pleasantly surprised is my motto smile Although at this stage every day and night is so different, you never quite know what to expect.

AngelDog Wed 14-Nov-12 21:34:39

Ugh, that sounds like hard work, CupofTea. Do you have a sling?

I love the Wonder Weeks too - haven't read most of the book yet but consider myself an expert on when the leaps are. wink It really does help you believe things are only a phase.

I went to the hospital to get DS2's tongue tie snipped today. There were loads of new (first time) mums there. Being around first timers makes me feel really competent, capable and in control. Reality is rather different though! wink

DS2 is having long sleeps grin but generally not going to bed till really late - last night was 2.30am. hmm

Margie32 Wed 14-Nov-12 22:15:51

Hello everyone,

Can I please join you? DS1 is 22 months and DS2 is due in 3 weeks. I'm not particularly worried about dealing with a newborn but I'm really worried about DS1's reaction...the terrible twos are in full swing already and I can only imagine that a new baby is going to make things worse.

Do you think there's anything we can do to prepare DS1 for the new arrival, or will the reality not hit him until it actually happens? Obviously we've talked to him about the baby and tried to get him excited and involved, but I'm not sure there's anything else we can do at this stage...?

Hi Margie, if you haven't already I'd thoroughly recommend getting a baby doll for DS to play with, wash, cuddle etc. I'm sure that's helped us with the transition and for DS to learn how to be gentle.

Angel yes I have a sling, which one am I supposed to put in it? ;-)

DD is a little treasure if she's being held and has complete access to a boob so she's been in the sling for the last 2 days.

Unfortunately I have become shouty mum as every time I sit down to feed her DS literally goes from doing one thing he shouldn't be doing (climbing on the furniture, switching the lamp on and off and pulling my books off shelves) to another (playing with light switches, plug sockets, the play station) - to prevent me scaring both of them by shouting at him I've put him in the cot with some books. I don't feel on top of things very much at the moment. I was doing so well last week, I don't know what's changed sad

Is anyone else tandem feeding? I'm wondering if he'd behave better if I fed him at the same time.. I just can't stand the feeling and he fidgets so much..

Yes, I tandem fed a lot with my twins. Tbh I'm not a huge fan, now they're bigger I'm constantly defending them from each other and its not the most comfortable for any of us. I stopped feeding my eldest at 15 months though when it got too painful to continue. I feed individually mostly now, but when they were little I just fed them on the move, sat on floor with DD reading, following her round the house. Up to the age where boys too distractable to feed in a busy environment...

I'm tired , its relentless atm here and DD pushing boundaries

AngelDog Thu 15-Nov-12 18:11:58

I tandem but haven't often fed both together as both DSs have had latch issues so it's too hard to get them both on comfortably. I usually do one side for DS2, one for DS1, repeat - but DS is 2.10 so easier to reason with. I often give him a snack or read to him while DS2 feeds. Other suggestions I've heard are special toys or treasure basket which only come out at feeding time. I think probably redirection would work better than saying no - your cot idea was good.

It's hard how much it changes day to day (and hour to hour!) and how in control (or otherwise) you feel.

Can you feed in your sling, CupOf? If so, is there a secret - I'm struggling to manage it with mine.

Margie, we worked hard on helping DS1 still feel like our baby. So we have a baby baby and a toddler baby. We also talked a lot about the things babies can't do (hold things, talk, walk, eat solid food, wake at night) so he would have realistic expectations. He was worried about DS2 needing lots of cuddles all the time so we played with DS1's soft toys in the sling and made a big deal about how I'd have my hands free to play with DS1.

I think it also helps not to expect them to be excited or pleased with the new arrival, and to let them know it's okay to feel upset about it. I've heard it likened to your husband bringing home a new wife one day - not only do they spend all their time cuddling in front of you, you're even supposed to like her and be nice to her.

Margie32 Thu 15-Nov-12 21:06:02

Nice and Angel, thanks so much for the tips. I particularly like the husband bringing home a new wife analogy - I suppose we want DS1 to be as excited about the baby as we are, but that's applying adult logic to a toddler! I guess one of the best things I can do is just talk to DS1 about everything that's happening and get him to tell me how he's feeling...

AngelDog Thu 15-Nov-12 21:37:52

Another helpful tip I had from someone here was to remember that with DC2, you know what you're doing and know what to expect to a great extent, even if DC2 is quite different from DC1. But for your toddler, it's all completely new - they didn't even have the benefit of knowing what babies are like, or going to anenatal classes etc. grin So they're likely to be experiencing even more of the shellshock you felt after DC1 was born.

We've talked a lot about 'like you did'. DS2 will need lots of milk - like you did. (Maybe show him a photo of himself as a baby). DS2 will probably need to sleep in the sling - like you did (show him photo). I think it's also helped him understand that DS2 won't stay the same as he is forever - that he won't keep on needing so much of my time and attention once he's a bit bigger.

Ha - just realised in my post above I said babies couldn't wake lots at night - not quite what I meant <glares at non-sleeping DS1> grin

Loopyhasanotherbean Fri 16-Nov-12 09:40:27

can i join in too please? DS1 24 months ish, DS2 10 weeks (exactly 22 months age gap). Recognise a couple of names here (waves to munx and dream)

DS1 was lovely to begin with but last 2-3 weeks quite frankly he has either been a dream child or a little shit and he can switch between the two in a millisecond without any visible reason for the change.

When he is in a good mood, he will kiss and cuddle DS2, and even tries to pick him up if he is crying and will shhh him and rock him if he is in the swing/crib/moses/car seat.

When he is in a bad mood, he will throw things across the room, or hit me or DS2 (he's hit him 3 times in the last week - last Friday was the first time, not hard thankfully and just with his hand rather than a heavy object and there was no reaction from DS2 so it can't have hurt) but still not behaviour that is acceptable! Accompanied by lots of screeching and climbing things he knows he shouldn't climb/messing with buttons he knows he shouldn't mess with, often saying Mommy just before he does it, to make sure that he knows i'm watching him and so that i know he's being naughty! Also has been terrorising our poor cat and hit our lodger who he loves to bits.

Goes to nursery for 3 6 hours sessions a week for the moment, as have no family support nearby and DP is usually out of the house from 7.15am -8pm and it gives me some sanity and a chance to spend guilt free time with DS2, and attempt to find time to cook and get things done!! Plus we think it does him good to mix properly with other children. He loves going and i don't even get a kiss or a goodbye when i take him, he just walks off to where his room is, very happy there and very independent! But the last 2 weeks, when i go to pick him up, he starts screeching when he sees me, and lots of No's, refusing to put on his coat and shoes etc....one night this week he took his shoes off twice and threw them across the room, then put them back in the shoe box, and also hit me several times. Last night he ran off and lay down on the mats they sleep on as if he was stopping overnight! He used to be very happy to see me and want to go home asap.

Also lots of food refusal, although not sure if this is part and parcel of same issues or not, as he has reflux and we'd just tried to take him off one of his medications, so don't know if that could actually be a factor, so he's back on it as of this morning so guess time will tell if he starts to eat properly again...

Any tips? Hoping it's just a phase but at the moment we are on eggshells not knowing what will change his mood and trying to be consistent re discipline but would love our little boy back asap, and not sure how long it will take/what we can do to speed things up!!

Hi Loopy! Not sure I have any tips but reading your post (and identifying with a lot of it) I can't help wondering how much of this behaviour is normal for this age??? Obviously we'll never know how our older ones would have acted at this age if they didn't have a younger sibling but most of my friends had moments with their younger ones at a certain age where they didn't always like them very much sad so perhaps some of it is just what toddlers do?

I'm sure I read about food refusal being common because the taste buds change or something, we're certainly experiencing it here (21 months) where DS used to pretty much eat anything before. No he says "don't like it" to the majority of food before he's even tried it! Yesterday I helped combat it a little at lunchtime by taking him to the freezer (yes I sometimes use frozen veg) and asking him to pick what vegetables he'd like. I then put them all on my plate and let him try one piece of something, tell me if he liked it - in which case I put some on his plate. He still refused things but ate more than he has been eating smile

I cooked it first obviously! smile

crazypaving Fri 16-Nov-12 12:38:08

cupoftea frozen veg???? shock

grin wink

Well I'm knackered. DS1 has been waking at night - last night for TWO HOURS, 4-6am. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?????????/ He's not ill. Could it be his 2nd set of molars? And ds2 has started feeding every 2hrs round thhe clock, and takes up to 90mins to settle post feed. [broken woman emoticon]


AngelDog Fri 16-Nov-12 19:55:15

sad, crazy. Hope tonight is a little better.

Loopy I agree lots of this is normal toddler behaviour but hard to tell. Friends have said to me it often goes in phases - DC1 seems to be coping well but then loses it again for a while.

We had lots of food refusal in the first couple of weeks. DS1 would have hysterics before every meal. He goes into meltdown if he doesn't eat often enough so we just let him eat pretty much anything he liked. It got better on its own. He also would scream about his highchair so we've put him on a normal chair now and the pre-meal hysterics have pretty much disappeared since. smile

Good day here. DH took DS1 swimming and a friend came round so I had Proper Adult Conversation for the first time in ages. Much better than toddler group yesterday when DS1 had the screaming abdabs every time I tried to talk to someone.

crazypaving Fri 16-Nov-12 20:23:15

I agree with toddler behaviour being "normal" for those with no siblings too and also going in phases. We've had lots of "no nunch" "no supper" but can be coaxed into his chair with favourite food bribes (luckily for us, usually a plum or satsuma!). DS1 has recently gone mental about his personal space and belongings, and will go totally awol on any child approaching him when he has a toy. He tried to stamp on a 9 month old crawling vaguely in his direction yesterday because he felt threatened confused And it's blardy hard to deal with when you have DS2 yodelling in the sling.... But then I figure that's probably just him being a bipolar normal toddler.

AngelDog Tue 20-Nov-12 22:53:06

How's everyone doing?

crazy, have things calmed down at all?

2.10 y.o. DS1 has started a phase of trying to hit other children (for the first time in his life). He gets seriously upset about it and today it was difficult to deal with because I was being crowded by other toddlers wanting to stroke DS2 who was asleep in the sling. Unfortunately DS1 finds it hard to tolerate anyone else near his brother.

I'm still feeling as if I don't like DS1 very much a lot of the time. I don't feel like I dislike him (at least, not often), but I don't feel very positive about him either. sad

crazypaving Wed 21-Nov-12 09:54:53

Angel my previously very peaceful DS1 is also attacking other children. Really struggling to deal with it - he hits them with toys and everything. Argh.

Hi all! Haven't posted much but lurking lots and feeling better about us all encountering very similar issues!! I just wondered how much time your babies spend awake in the day now? Ds is 5 weeks and I feel as though apart from feeding and a couple of half hour periods he just sleeps all day! It makes things easier when I have dd to deal with but if you read one if the baby routine books (Gina Ford anyone?!) they would indicate that there should be much longer periods of awake time to facilitate night time sleeping....

Would live to know what your babies are doing?

Hope everyone has a good day x

crazypaving Thu 22-Nov-12 10:13:15

CrazyHorse DS2 is asleep for much of the day (in moby). Some days has some nice alert time after a feed but really not much. He gets over tired and cries really quickly. Evenings are another matter - yesterday was awake 4pm-midnight confused that wa sfun...

crazypaving Thu 22-Nov-12 10:14:23

btw DS2 is 7wks and surely gina ford is in fact the devil incarnate?

AngelDog Thu 22-Nov-12 17:42:47

Must be something in the air, crazy - DS2 was awake 5pm - 1am.

I agree that Gina Ford is mental. e.g. DH needs an hour and a half less sleep per night than me. He naturally wakes at 5.30am. I naturally wake at 7.30. Adults need different amounts of sleep & at different times, so why not babies?

DS2 (5 weeks) only has 1 or 2 awake times per day (1.5 hours including feeding time) plus his fussy awake spell, which usually lasts 2-4 hours. He sleeps fantastically at night (unless his fussy spell falls in the night). He spends all day sleeping in the sling - only on me, though, as he won't fall asleep if DH is wearing it. hmm

DS1 OTOH was awake for much more of the day at this age and was appalling at night. IME for most babies, sleep begets sleep.

EarnestDullard Thu 22-Nov-12 17:54:39

Can I join? DD2 is 7 weeks, DD1 is 2 years 9 months. DD1 is good at playing independently and I have to admit I just leave her to it a lot of the time. By the time I've dealt with the baby and done the bare minimum of feeding, washing and dressing us all, keeping the house vaguely in order etc., I don't have much energy left for playing with a toddler sad I guess it will get easier as DD2 gets a little older. And DD1 has been great, not clingy or jealous of the new baby at all.

crazypaving Thu 22-Nov-12 20:46:55

Hi Earnest welcome to the party!

Okay I'm back to wondering whether DS1's behaviour is normal toddler behaviour or a result of the appearance of DS2. My goodness he's being difficult at the moment. And someone came to say hello today, made a big fuss of DS1, then turned and kissed DS2 and DS1 chucked himself on the floor yelling confused It makes me wonder if I'm doing anything to make it worse. Or is this to be expected? How do I make it easier for him?

Last night was so grim. DS2 is 7weeks and nights are steadily getting worse and worse. They will get better soon, right? I seem to remember 8 weeks being a bit of a turning point with DS1. I really really hope things improve soon - every night a bit/lot more sleep is stolen from me and I wonder how little I can survive on....!!!! [massive eye bags emoticon] Doesn't help that they're both sodding waking at the moment, and never at the same time, of course.

Sigh. Sorry to be totally moany again. Hope everyone else is getting on ok!

AngelDog Thu 22-Nov-12 21:06:55

envy at Earnest on the calmness of your DD1. Welcome!

I know what you mean about not having much time for playing. I'm supposed to be doing child-directed play with DS every day to help with his verbal dyspraxia, but I just can't seem to fit it in! We do manage to get out of the house every day - but that's absolutely essential for sanity.

crazy, that sounds tough. Remind me how old he is. If he's not sleeping well, that'll be having a huge effect on his behaviour.

According to my sleep books, ,m9.,.,.6-8 weeks is when new baby unsettledness (and particularly evening unsettledness) peaks. 6 weeks from due date is usually when it's at its worst. From 6-8 weeks they start having their longest sleep at night (even if that's not very long) so hopefully that might start soon. That might be from due date too rather than birth date.

This morning was hard work as DS2 wouldn't go to sleep after being up for a bit. I went out for a walk with the sling 3 times in my pyjamas before I could get him off. I'm sure the neighbours think I'm the crazy lady...

Just a newborn would be okay here as DS2 is so calm - it's trying to co-ordinate things that's difficult. It was 3 hours after getting up that DS1 and I finally managed to have breakfast.

DS2 hasn't had a fussy evening at all yet - which is lovely as I've had chance to get things done, but it's ominous as it's almost certain to happen in the middle of the night instead. hmm

AngelDog Fri 23-Nov-12 11:55:18

Anyone got any tips on how to actually get dressed in the morning? It's nearly midday and I'm still in PJs.

Our day has gone:

Bf & change DS2
Bf DS1
DS2 tired. Change & bf. Goes straight to sleep - put in sling.
Get DS1 dressed, breakfast etc.
DS2 wakes. Bf. Goes straight to sleep - put in sling.

I hate waking DS2 up when he clearly needs to sleep - and he virtually always wakes when I put him down after being asleep in the sling. After that it's usually harder to get him off again. <sigh>

chezziejo Fri 23-Nov-12 18:15:25

Hello can I join pleeaaasseee.

Have ds who is 2.5 and dd who is 5 days old. Dd is fairly placid and sleeps a lot. Not to bad at feeding really but not emptying boobies so quite tender. We arrived at hospital at 21:50 and she was born at 22:03 and me in theatre with a tear (ouch).

Ds is the problem really I wouldn't say he's showing jealousy as such but he is quite emotional and often will not even look at her. He won't touch her. We havnt forced the issue and he's having lots of cuddles and lisses and reassurance. He will come and sit and have a cuddle with me while she feeds but with his back to her. He breaks my heart but we are carrying on as normal. He's had a hell of a lot to deal with just lately as we moved house only 4 weeks ago. Then he got a severe double ear infection and is only just starting to eat properly. Well I say properly it consists of roast potatoes, a bit of meat, plain pasta and yoghurt. He can manage chocolate . Can't remember last time he ate something healthy. Just glad he's eating something. Do we just carry on with what we are doing with plenty of reassurance and cuddles?

Sorry that turned into an epic post I just feel guilty about it somehow but want to show how loved they both are. sad and confused

crazypaving Fri 23-Nov-12 18:55:43

Welcome chezzie! It is so tough with the toddler. I don't have the foggiest clue what I'm doing, and we are really struggling, but I think being consistent with boundaries, plus lots of reassurance and cuddles really makes sense and has to be the best way forward. Not always easy when you're on the field of battle! Hope he cheers up, hard time for him. DS took a couple of weeks to perk up as he was initially miserable; now he's just incredibly naughty and defiant!!

Angel DS1 turned 2 early this month. In terms of getting dressed, I bite the bullet and get up before DH leaves the house to have a shower - often involves getting up whilst both DS's are asleep <weeps quietly> but is worth it to be clean, dressed and sort of in my right mind.

crazypaving Fri 23-Nov-12 18:58:13

Oh and congratulations too chezzie

<searches for brain in amongst nappies and toys>

EMS23 Fri 23-Nov-12 20:58:38

I'm so happy to have found this and see that it's not that my DD has been possessed by an evil spirit!!!

I have DSS 9yo, DD1 2yo last week and DD2 10wo. DD1 has struggled so much, displaying all the behaviours you've all talked about and I've been so miserable at times these last 10 weeks.
For a good 6 weeks I just felt like I'd ruined everyone's lives, even though it was DH that wanted the second baby so soon!

Mostly I'm just exhausted. I found the first year of DD1 so so hard and I am wishing this next year away.
But but but, DD2 is lovely and DD1 has started saying Mummy this week and DSS is such a lovely big brother to them. I'm lucky, I know I am. But I'm just so exhausted.

AngelDog Fri 23-Nov-12 22:59:11

crazy, I had a nasty feeling that getting up early might be the case. I'll stick with the PJ option! grin

Welcome, EMS23 and chezziejo.

I don't know how people cope with an older one age 2ish. You are all incredible to be at this point and all still alive. smile

DS1 has a bad cold (rivers of snot) and we've swapped bedrooms round in an attempt to stop him rolling onto DH a million times a night (they co-sleep). He's woken loads so far (he doesn't sleep well but rarely wakes during the evening) so it could be a long night. Poor DH's insomnia is playing up too.

DS2 has only been awake for 2 x 30 mins today so will probably want to party tonight. wink

chezziejo Sat 24-Nov-12 09:34:34

Morning all. Congratulations to all on their little ones too. Forgot to say yesterday blush

Dd fed 3 times overnight and settled straight away. We didnt sleep as we all still poorly but hope it stays that way. Still having trouble with ds he was quite emotional last night and having bad dreams early on but he was shattered. He baked some cakes with his dad in the morning and helped him put new table up. He's been through so many changes in last two months poor thing, I feel guilty that I've ruined his young life somehow sad well will just carry on with cuddles and reassurance. He's quite a shy emotional little thing anyway.
I'm having a block about going out as well as I don't feel very good breast feedin public. I'm not sure how to be discreet about it as she needs latching on a few times as well and I'm not one for getting my gInormous boomers out in public. Is that daft?

Hope every feeling well this morning.

crazypaving Sat 24-Nov-12 13:05:38

chezzie I hold on to the fact that we definitely haven't ruined DC1's lives - we've given them the best gift they could ever have. It just feels like their lives are ruined atm.

Welcome EMS! I also hated the first year of DS1's life and am wishing this next year away blush Hoping I can enjoy it a bit more this time but it is bloody hard and knackering.

angel good call re jammies grin I just don't function without my morning shower - for me, it's precious me-time. Daft priority probably when sleep could be had...

Starting to worry that DS2 is turning into a total mummy's boy and will never ever nap anywhere but in the sling on me confused The moby needs a wash desperately but it's the only way I can survive the days - do I have to buy another one so I can rotate in the wash, or what do I do? Anyone in the same position? Ridiculous problem!!

AngelDog Sat 24-Nov-12 18:56:58

crazy, I had that problem with DS1 - he wouldn't sleep at night unless he'd had a sling nap just before bedtime (and all other naps were in the sling too). One evening he pooed through his nappy & clothes & all over the sling. hmm Thankfully the day before a friend had lent me her sling to try so I could hastily wash ours.

Is there anyone you could borrow one from? You can hire them too - don't know where you live but we have a sling library near here & lots of places do hire by post. That's a bit of a faff, though - might be easier to buy a second and plan to ebay one when you know you're not going to want it again.

I used to think DS1 would never nap any other way but by 3.5 months I could rock or feed him to sleep and put him down. Take heart!

chezziejo, I'm having similar problems feeding out & about: I thought I'd be fine as I've always bf everywhere and still bf DS1 in public sometimes. But DS2 needs repeated attempts to latch before we get it right, and I just can't hold his arms out of the way, latch him on and hold a muslin/scarf in place all at once. Have you thought about one of those nursing covers?

chezziejo Sat 24-Nov-12 21:14:38

Thanks for that, have beer heard of nursing covers. Can anyone recommend a decent one? Looked at a few on amazon just wondered of anyone had and recommendations.

AngelDog Sat 24-Nov-12 22:51:29

No, never used one, I'm afraid - you could try asking on the breast & bottle feeding board though.

chezziejo Sat 24-Nov-12 23:01:16

Beer heard of? Perhaps I'm more tired than I thought , or a Freudian slip grin

AngelDog Sat 24-Nov-12 23:32:47


lolalotta Sun 25-Nov-12 07:22:04

ChezzieJo I bought one of these breast feeding covers when my DD was a baby, it was very discreet when I just starting out, but TBH I only used it a few times as after a little bit I got the hang of a muslin, plus I only have tiny boobs! It was pricey though, I managed to sell it on eBay for about half of the price so it might be worth having a look on there! Good luck! smile

PamieRT Sun 25-Nov-12 09:24:25

I'm so glad I found this thread! I hope everyone won't mind me joining in so late. I'm reaching the end of the rope here and tearing up at the slightest stuff everyday.

DS1 is 18 months now and DS2 is just 2 weeks old.

DS2 is mostly good (so far), doing the usual newborn stuff - nursing, pooping, peeing, sleeping. Only thing is that he does nurse for a really long time each time, which adds to the problem.

It's DS1 that I'm really having problems with. He's usually a very good little boy with his fair share of toddler tantrums but nothing unusual or excessive. But ever since DS2 arrived, he's been acting out everyday. Saying NO to everything, tears and tantrums at the slightest things, gets upset when I nurse his baby brother. Even though DH is around to help (he works from home), DS1 mostly rejects him, and only wants my attention. Too bad DH cant nurse!

I've been giving in to lots of tv and YouTube time, which makes me feel like the worst mother.

I just generally feel like the worst mother to DS1 right now. I can see that he's unhappy and I try my best to spend time with him but I can't decide when DS2 wants to nurse or poop. DS2 is always in tears these days and it just breaks my heart. I feel like im coping terribly and it's all my fault DS1 is so unhappy which makes me unhappy and moody and also unfair to innocent DS2.

I'm sorry I'm rambling but I just really needed to vent a little.

chezziejo Sun 25-Nov-12 10:07:55

Bless you and congratulations by the way.

It's my elder ds who is the problem too. Dd is 7 days old today and he wanted to undo the poppers on her sleep suit at nappy time today which is a first and massive breakthrough for us. He's still not keen but small steps. He's also going to dad a lot as well which helps. Not much help I know but just try and keep going with reassurance, cuddles and act as normally as possible with a newborn in tow. That's what we do and it's slowly paying off. Cant think of any other solution to be honest and it is hard. As for tv time I must be the worst mum in the world as we moved house 4 weeks ago as well and manAged to get straight but let's just say if it wasn't for Thomas the tank DVDs I think we would be in dire straights. I'm still relying heavily on old Thomas now hmm

PamieRT Sun 25-Nov-12 11:25:28

Sorry I meant DS1 is always in tears these days. And by tears I mean long crying/screaming fits. Sigh.

chezziejo Sun 25-Nov-12 11:48:34

I guessed what you meant and have a hug while no ones looking and a biscuit and [ brew]

crazypaving Mon 26-Nov-12 13:32:32

Welcome Pamie and congrats! Nice to have someone else here! And much as I wouldn't wish this on anyone, so to speak, it's good to have other people in the same boat. I have very few rl friends with 2 DCs.

DS2 has been sleeping decently for the last 3 nights <whispers it as it surely can't last> He seems to have some sort of 6th sense in the day though - when it's mealtime or nappy change time or naptime for DS1 he'll wake up in the sling, pop his head out and scream in my face. It sends me slightly loopy, I lose my cool and poor DS1 finds it really hard.

This too shall pass.

Looking forward to the day I don't have to carry DS2 round so much in teh sling, as handy and relatively easy as it is. It's just if he does decide to cry it is right in my ear and it makes me go crazy - I find it really hard to keep my temper with DS when that noise is going on. And I have to pull tops down to breastfeed, whereas I prefer to pull up. Small detail but still.

Remind me - when do babies go longer between sleeps? I mean, aside from the evening fussathon. When can I stick him in his bouncy chair and leave him to it for a bit? At the moment he'll do 10-15mins tops and then he needs to go back to sleep. Luckily he sleeps quickly and soundly in the sling, thank the good lord.

Hope everyone else is doing ok. My childminder's back NEXT WEEK! [counting down emoticon]

Yes yes, I need to know when the bouncy chair will be an option too!!

Does anyone else feel as though they aren't really getting to 'know' their baby? Just coping, rather than actually watching and understanding what he/she wants? I think ds is particularly difficult - screams a LOT due to what I suspect is reflux (doc has given us infant gaviscon today) but I just feel as though I should understand him a bit more by now.

Feeling a bit sad today.

AngelDog Mon 26-Nov-12 20:39:21

Sleep usually improves at about 3 months, when babies stop going into REM sleep first (& so being easily wakened). Then they go straight into a deeper sleep at first. Also the biological clock develops more so they become more predictable with naps.

I think they really vary when they're awake for longer between sleeps. DS1 was AWAKE! after every feed from 3 weeks - and would be up for a good 2 hours at a time. (We now suspect he has some sensory processing disorder, which probably had an effect as he finds it difficult to 'switch off'). DS is awake for 1.5 hours (including feeding time) but that only happens once or twice a day. Plus the evening fussies, of course.

I love carrying him in the sling (and am just grateful he'll sleep!) but I'm also looking forward to being able to put him down occasionally. Tying my shoelaces and putting on DS1's shoes is so difficult with a baby strapped to your chest.

chezziejo Mon 26-Nov-12 20:49:15

Evenin all.

Hope your all having a better one than me. Ds went to nursery today and despite the usual screaming he was fine and enjoyed it. He came home And wanted sweets but said no because he's had too many lately to compensate for some big changes. Out fault not his but when I said no teas nearly ready he whacked me around the head. I just burst into tears and explained hitting is wrong and no sweets now. Dp backed me up And reiterated about hitting. He has been whiny and silly all evening but ate some tea and had fruit for pud. After tea was ok but coming up for bedtime I give him prior warning about pjs and he hit me three times. Tries to explain about hitting again and said no playing with my phone. He wouldn't listen and always screaming and trying to watch tv so turned Thomas off and said he needs to listen and know why he has been told off. nother tantrum so dp has said no Thomas tomorrow as he wouldn't apologise and have three chances to do so. Baby is fine, no trouble at all.

Sorry for long rant and moan just feeling very lost and tearful. So hope he grows out if this as its not like him really sad

crazypaving Mon 26-Nov-12 20:50:07

Angel god yes getting anyone's shoes on is such a palava! DS2 hates it when I bend over and goes a bit mental. Has a nasty habit of popping his head out just as I bend over...have horrible mental images of his little head dropping off....!!

CrazyHorse I was looking back at pics of DS1 at around this age. Had him in the bouncy chair giving me big beaming smiles - with DS2 he's only really out of the sling from 7pm onwards, and he ain't really in a smiling mood at that point....so yes, feel like he and I are missing out on each other at this point. Must say, I'm less worried about him than I am about DS1 - does that sound harsh confused Sometimes I worry that I don't really see DS2 as a person yet and am being too precious about DS1. Ah there's no getting it right, is there?!

crazypaving Mon 26-Nov-12 20:57:48

x-post Chezzie sorry today's been so rough sad Hope you're ok. Tomorrow's another day - I think compartmentalising (errr, is that a word??) things into hours/days/whatever, closing the lid and moving on is the only way to survive this. Step away from today, into a nice glass of wine ? grin and forget about it if you can.

I'd say perhaps 2.5 is a bit young to have punishments cross over into the next day? Particularly if it's a punishment that makes your life harder! i.e. banning a favourite babysitter TV prog. I may be wrong but I'd be surprised if he'd remember 1. that you stated the punishment and 2. why he is being punished.

fwiw DS1 is hitting loads at the moment. I always give a very firm "no hitting" and remove him from the situation. He gives me a really snarky defiant look sad each time but I figure at some point it's got to sink in. He whacked my DH in the face yesterday (it made a wonderful smacking noise on his cheek but that's beside the point) and he got firm "no" and put down, which is a very effective strategy as he hates being put down when he wants to be carried.

Hope it gets easier for you.

It's really comforting to know that everyone else is having such a challenging time too!

My next question - what do everyone's babies do in the evening? I've been trying to get ds into a bath/bed routine in the vain hope of getting some evening back, but it's failing spectacularly. What time do yours go down for the night?

Thanks all x

chezziejo Mon 26-Nov-12 21:32:36

I'm with you crazy about the punishments into next day but will cross that bridge tomorrow when I come to it with dp. Mind we have plenty on tomorrow without worrying too much about it so hopefully a better day. I just wish I could get past this thing where I feel I have destroyed his life. Chances are he won't even remember this period in his life. Just want my lovely little boy back to go with his lovely little sister. She gets lest a lot to give so much reassurance but fortunately she's so far been a placid baby. Want to snuggle all night and feed but not crying really.

Oh well tomorrow's another day.

AngelDog Mon 26-Nov-12 22:58:53

Whoa, DS goes to sleep anytime between 9pm and 2am, although it isn't really 'bedtime' as it's just when I can get myself together to go to bed - he's asleep for the rest of the evening in the sling.

According to the sleep books I've read*, most babies have a bedtime which is very late at night (often 10pm into the small hours) until about 3 months when a much earlier bedtime naturally develops. Colicky / 'difficult' babies may develop an earlier bedtime at a slightly older age - maybe 4 months.

On the hitting (and similar behaviours), what's worked well for us is redirection. So as well as explaining 'hitting hurts', we take DS's hand and showing himhow to touch gently, or say, "Hitting hurts - but you can hit the ground/wall," etc and encourage them to do the action on something that's less of a problem. Hitting something else has worked best recently as our hitting issues have been about frustration.

*There were many. At least 15. DS was a very difficult sleeper (still isn't great) and I spent most of his first 12 months either reading books about baby sleep or surfing the web about baby sleep. hmm

Angel I could kiss you for that piece of knowledge! I've been trying for bed time a lot earlier and tearing my hair out that it doesn't work. I've had many a 'dd was never this bad' conversation with DH when I guess the reality is that as rookie parents we didn't even probably think to introduce a bedtime until much later.

Are there any sleep books you think are worth a read?

crazypaving Tue 27-Nov-12 10:37:55

HELP ME!!!!! It's my birthday, the car won't start, it's pissing with rain and we're stuck at home waiting for the RAC - THREE HOURS!!!



EarnestDullard Tue 27-Nov-12 10:39:38

DD2 goes to bed between 10pm and midnight; last night she went down at about 11.30pm and slept till nearly 6am! Until recently she'd wake at about 3am every morning so I'm hoping this is the start of things to come. I figure sleeping longer stretches is a start, and we'll think about an earlier bedtime later.

Had a slightly hellish morning. Tried really, really hard to get ready and organised in time to go to family play session at our local library. Just managed, but got outside with DD1 in pushchair and baby in sling and realised that a) it was raining and b) I needed a hand to support DD2's head and couldn't push the pushchair one-handed. And the session gets full really quickly so we didn't have time to get the double pushchair sorted or let DD1 walk (she's sloooow!). So we gave up, and DD2 cried, then I cried. Felt really crap. We're ok now I'm eating lots of chocolate though.

Earnest thanks for the info - ds went to bed at 10 last night which was much more successful. Sorry you had such a shite day yesterday - has today been any better?

AngelDog Wed 28-Nov-12 19:00:43

My pleasure, Woah.

The books I found helpful are:
No Cry Sleep Solution (not very good at newborns or if your 3 m.o. just Does Not Sleep, but good at changing sleep associations for 4 months+)
The Wonder Weeks - not about sleep but good for knowing when developmental leaps mess with it. But the website does that for free.
Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child - this is badly organised, poorly written and patronising in tone. I violently disagree with his methods (cry it out with no parental contact for an unlimited time - from 3 months old shock sad). However, it's really good on naps and gives a good idea of what's the normal range of behaviour.

I also love the sleep advice on the AskMoxie blog, as she gets comments from people across the range of the various parenting approaches and is very non-prescriptive. Her stuff on who cry to release tension vs crying to increase tension http://www.askmoxie.org/2011/01/tension-increasers.html is really, really helpful.

AngelDog Wed 28-Nov-12 19:02:06

Sorry for dodgy links and rubbish layout there.

AngelDog Wed 28-Nov-12 20:11:14

crazy, are you all still alive? Happy birthday for yesterday. smile

Anyone else's DH unable to get their baby to sleep? I know it's normal but it's annoying when DS2 needs to go to sleep at the same time as DS1 and I've promised DS1 I'll bf him. Poor DS2 was howling for ages with DH at bedtime.

I made a fantastic discovery today. Sometimes DS2 struggles to go to sleep even in the sling, but if I go on an outside walk he'll generally drop off. It's not always convenient though eg in the middle of giving DS1 lunch. I tried putting on my coat and buttoning it around him like I do when we go out, then bounced indoors. He went off really easily. grin If it works consistently it would help avoid those times when DS2 is wailing while I yell at DS1 because he's not being co-operative enough while I try to wrestle his outdoor clothes on.

crazypaving Wed 28-Nov-12 21:05:23

Hi Angel thanks for thinking of me! Had the crappest couple of days...will come back when I'm better company! That may be next week when my childminder is back in action........

chezziejo Thu 29-Nov-12 09:32:04

Happy birthday for the other day crazy

Getting quite fed up with ds and his hitting and not tantrums but he's being mardy for lack of a better word and has this fake high pitched cry that is awful. Picking battles carefully like insisting teeth have to be cleaned which he screams about it but can't let that go. Am I cruel? Still going with the reassurance and lots of attention but finding it so hard now when he blanks me like he hates me. sad baby has a cold and has lost 8oz and is not feeding properly. Falling asleep on boob but have saline drops from dr now so hopefully that will help. Sorry for the moan, on the plus side mil has now arrived from a 5 hr trip and happily hoovering up, bless her.
Hope every one else is surviving and getting on ok.

Goldrill Fri 30-Nov-12 13:04:21

Ooh - wonderful thread - can I join too please? DD2 is 6 weeks today and DD1 turned 2 last week. DP has been off work for 6 weeks and goes back on monday and I am utterly terrified.

I'm very lucky as DD1 is in nursery 2 days and then spends a day with my parents, and then they will come over and help on one of the other days to start off with - so really I have very little time with the two together on my own to do, but I am still very worried!

I feel a bit of a wuss tbh - most people in the world who have kids will have more than one, so it can't really be as hard as I'm finding it, surely - I must be doing something wrong here? DD1 is also extremely well behaved and has not had too big a reaction to the baby until this week, and even then it's mild compared with what some people have to deal with, but I veer wildly between feeling horribly guilty at the lack of time I have for her, to really looking forward to her going to nursery.

I was going to say that I wish someone had warned me it would be this difficult - but I don't think I would really have got it if they had done! I am off to try and sleep now as had only 20 minute stretches up to 5am as DD2 was Not In The Mood for sleep, and for the first time DP has taken her out so I can try and catch up. I should have gone to bed an hour ago, but reading this has cheered me up no end so it is worth it - I am so glad it's not just me, and reading other peoples' coping methods is bloody brilliant.

EarnestDullard Fri 30-Nov-12 13:24:28

Sorry I missed your post CrazyHorse; things have been better since that nightmareish morning. Although in my stressed/upsetness I blubbed to DD1, who was crying that she wanted to go to the library, that "maybe one day you'll have a good Mum, but I'm a rubbish Mum so we can't go" blush Awful, awful parenting. So now whenever I tell her off or she thinks I'm upset she says "but you're a good Mummy, you're a good Mummy sad Bless her.

Goldrill you're doing nothing wrong, it really is hard. And I'm lucky to have quite an easy-going DD1 too (as far as the baby goes anyway; we still get the odd terrible-twos-style meltdown). She's 2.9yo and is good at playing independently, which is a real blessing right now. I still find it so difficult at times though; trying to plan anything is a nightmare, getting anywhere takes about 3 times as long as it should. Just getting everyone washed, dressed and fed in the morning is a logistical nightmare, especially when I've been up at least once in the night and I just want to sleeeeeeep.

My only tactic is taking it one day at a time. Sometimes one hour at a time grin Then the days slide into weeks and eventually it does get easier, little by little.

HelloBear Fri 30-Nov-12 15:57:27

What a great thread!

DD is 2years 4 months, DS 4 weeks. And heck it is HARD work!!! But feel a lot better to read others going through the same problems as me and it is not just that I am totally useless and should never have had children!

Oh and the guilt, if feeling guilty was an olympic sport I am sure I would have won a number of gold medles for team GB. Guilty that I don't play with DD, guilty I dont talk to DS as much as I did to DD, guilty that I left DS in wet nappy for too long, etc, etc, etc.

But there are lovely moments alos smile

DS crying.....buy for now

HelloBear Fri 30-Nov-12 15:58:19

Oh and I have not done any christmas shopping, how, how, how am I going to do it????

chezziejo Sat 01-Dec-12 10:36:32

Get on amazon I would say.

Things not going great here either. Dd now 12 days old and in hospital. Stopwd feeding and was losing too much weight. Got bronchiolitis and Is on oxygen and being fed by ng tube at mo. feel like such a failure and so sad for her.

EMS23 Sat 01-Dec-12 10:50:09

chezziejo - best wishes for your DD, I hope she gets better really quickly & you have RL support.

My DD's are good, DD1 is sleeping a bit better which makes the days easier but between the two of them, I'm not getting a lot of sleep.

DH has decided now is the time to tackle DD1's reliance on her dummy. I'm not so sure, especially as he's going away for 3 days next week so not great timing for me to be left with a miserable 2 yr old!

DD2 is 11 weeks today, can't believe how fast it's gone and yet, at times, so painfully slowly! She's been going down at 8pm for 1.5 weeks now and it's lovely to have our evenings back, it makes such a difference to my state of mind and my DH copes a lot better when we get some time together. Mind you, I'm normally asleep by 9.30pm!
She's still waking for night feeds, at best one but generally 2. I'm wondering what we could do to encourage her to sleep through.
DD1 had health issues so we never implemented routines and she found her own, happily sleeping through by 5 months. I think I need to trust DD2 to do the same.

Hope everyone else is doing ok and new babies are settling well.

crazypaving Sat 01-Dec-12 13:13:48

Welcome hellobear and goldrill!

chezzie Oh god poor you, I hope DD gets better really quickly and you're ok. You are SO not a failure! Don't beat yourself up, this happens to plenty of babies. Please take heart, she will be fine I'm sure.

EMS sorry but I had to grin at your DH's suggestion. I suggest you tell him now is not a good time! New baby and him going away? I wouldn't touch that with a bargepole! Sorry if I sound a bit flippant...it is entirely up to you of course...! And you give me hope with tales of your DD2 going down in the evenings a bit earlier. DS2 is 8 weeks now and we're still waiting. Really hope things are better by Christmas, although we're away for 2 nights which will no doubt send everything up the spout... Also waking for 2 feeds usually and sometimes 1. For me this is fab as DS1 was a nightmare at night until over a year, so I'm loving all the sleep!!!

Having a bit of a problem with DS2's feeding. Thinking I should've had his tongue tie (posterior) cut at the beginning after all. He will feed until my let-down starts, and then completely refuse. It's ok at night hmm as he's all sleepy and hunger gets the better of him, but he's only fed ONCE in teh day for the last 3 days confused I'm really worried, and at his 8wk check he'd dropped from 75th to 50th centile. Doctor wants to see us back in 2 weeks and if no improvement she'll refer him to the tongue tie clinic. Damn it, the older they get the more miserable the cut is I imagine. He seems fine in himself at least, apart from the whole feeding refusal. I do have a fire-hydrant let-down, poor lamb.

Also DS2 has pectus excavatum. She doesn't think it's anything more than cosmetic but it still makes me feel a bit sad Hope it is ok, she's going to let us know when we're back in 2wks. Funny, went to the 8wk check with no concerns, and now look!!

My 3 weeks of hell are OVER!!! Childminder back on Monday!! These have been teh slowest 3 weeks of my life. Ever. And I've had some unbelievable low points (my birthday stands out! - would you believe I actually had to poo with DS2 in the sling and DS1 sitting on my lap? blush oh the horror, the indignity, and what a birthday...) and a few lovely moments. At the moment DS2 is sporting a lovely mark on his forehead from where DS1 whacked him with a toy sad When is DS1 going to accept DS2?

Hope everyone else is surviving...

AngelDog Sat 01-Dec-12 18:46:58

You poor thing, chezzie - hope your DD gets better soon.

crazy, I'd definitely push for the tongue tie to be sorted. DS2 has had his snipped, and feeding is only just starting to improve 2.5 weeks later. We still have a way to go though.

Nearly 3 y.o. DS1 had his moderate tongue tie and lip tie revised on Thursday. It was pretty traumatic - mainly because I wasn't allowed in the room while they did it, and he's never been left alone with anyone other than DH, me or his grandmothers for even a minute. The follow-up physio has been very distressing for him too - we have to stretch it 3x a day.

He's been needing lots of TLC so everything else is going to rack and ruin. It took 24 hours to empty one potty, and I've still not cleaned where DS2 was sick last night. blush DH took DS out this morning but DS2 needed feeding, changing and getting to sleep so all I managed was a shower and putting half a load of washing out to dry.

EMS, I think 2 night feeds at 11 weeks is incredible. Mind you, DS1 slept through twice at 3 months, then didn't again till 13 months, and has never regularly slept through at nearly 3 years. Whatever they're doing now, it usually goes to pot in the 4 month sleep regression so it's probably not worth too much effort now. Various sleep books say the number of night feeds usually goes up again as they start going to bed earlier, as they're in bed for longer.

chezzie poor you, I hope dd is on the mend sad

We have had a minor breakthrough in working out that ds goes from fine to overtired in a nanosecond and things rapidly go to pot from that point onwards!! He also roots furiously when tired - I've been thinking he's hungry and trying to get him to feed (sometimes basically forcing a bottle down him blush ) when in fact a dummy at that point works wonders in calming him down. The result of this has discovery has been 2 days of calm breastfeeding and MUCH less screaming! If only he'd come with a manual.

Question - what are your babies doing between 7ish and whatever time they go down for the night? By that point in the day ds won't settle anywhere but on me really, and after an afternoon or day of slinging him I just want to sit on my arse! Which is exactly what I'm doing now with him asleep on my chest. Does anyone manage this differently?

crazy hooray for the childminder's return!! My days when dd is at nursery are lovely, she's been off all week with a chest infection and I know how you feel!

Angel thanks very much for the recommendations and links - much appreciated.

Keep it up everyone!

crazypaving Sat 01-Dec-12 19:52:36

CrazyHorse that sounds pretty much like my evenings. Although often he will settle on DH, provided he does lots of bouncing and shushing!

Ok so baby will only feed from left boob now. When I've thought he's refusing to feed he is in fact simply refusing the right side. If I offer the left he'll feed like a monster. I tried holding him on the right in football hold, which didn't work, and then copying the left side hold as closely as possible, which worked, but was bloody uncomfortable for me! Why is he refusing the right suddenly???

ThePinkNinja Mon 03-Dec-12 13:30:39

Hello everyone smile
I've been missing for what feels like ages....

The three weeks after ds1 caught hand foot mouth at childminder were hell and then after .....

Grrr ds1 just woke from his 30 minute sad nap ....

Guess I'll have to try again later

Madness here. But hope you are all doing well x

EMS23 Mon 03-Dec-12 19:29:02

AngelDog I hope your DC's are feeling better now.

Re the 2 night feeds - my DD is formula fed so 2 feels like a lot but I suppose it's not too terrible.
DD1 was an awful awful sleeper until 11 weeks when she was prescribed Nutramigen and slept 8 straight hours that first night!
So DD2, who appears to have no such CMP intolerance, is 'only' doing 4 hour stretches and it seems rubbish in comparison!

My DH is away for work this week so my mum has come to stay and is sending me off for a massage, manicure and pedicure tomorrow while DD1 is at nursery. I love my mum!!!

crazypaving Tue 04-Dec-12 11:56:05

argh when does everything stop being a massive struggle just for survival and start being perhaps enjoyable? will it ever be enjoyable??

crazy I don't know! I am on my last legs today, absolutely full of cold and ds was awake nearly ALL night last night. I got no more than 2.5 hours' sleep, had to take him out in the car, sling etc but spent much of the time crying pacing the floor. He is getting worse every night and I can't face another one!


I've asked this before but how much te do other babies (7 weeks) spend awake in the day? Wondering if I need to make some effort to help hi learn that days are for fun and nights are for sleep...

crazypaving Tue 04-Dec-12 14:16:58

oh poor you crazyhorse! I just take ds's lead. I find trying to keep him awake when he doesn't want to be is just grim, but having said that nights aren't too bad atm. we keep him in the light, loud environment, chatty feeds etc in the day, opposite at night. not sure if that's what made the difference, suspect it's actually just luck of the draw. I could so easily be where you are...and things can change in the blink of an eye at this age, so who knows what each night will bring! I hope it gets better for you quickly though.

I had morning from hell, sorry about my outburst earlier! ds1 slept badly last night so is overtired today, and we had to go for ds2's jabs today. appointment at 10am, called in at 10.50 with very bored narky toddler. then she made ds2 bleed loads, not her fault I know but not ideal. back for lunch refusal and begging for beebies. meanwhile ds2 is back to being difficult to feed.

my life used to be fun. I think. can't really remember.

Yuk grumpy toddlers seriously make the whole thing horrendous!! Dd is just over a chest infection and still full of cold, she constantly wants to be carried/spoonfed/etc and is so whingey at the moment. She's usually such a cheery little thing and its so hard not to get really annoyed with her. Having two childrenon me at all times seriously grinds me down...

Climbingpenguin Tue 04-Dec-12 16:43:17

I remember being on the first thread of this.

DS is now 14 months and DD 2.9. Both still wake two plus times a night but things are manageable now and DS is now walking and able to occupy himself for small chunks.

Turned out you can have two high needs babies in a row, which if you have be warned. I found months 8/9 really hard as the cumulative sleep deprivation took hold. DS only went down to two/three nights feed and not being rocked to sleep after a year. However things also got better around then as I could go out in evenings to various exercise things, I put them into nursery for one or two afternoons a week, DH started doing the co-sleeping with DS bringing him through for feeds. What I guess I'm saying is don't wait until your not coping to put support in place. Even if you can't do anything else go for 10 min walks in the evenings. This was how I got back into running, I would get ready but only commit to a quick walk. I often found by the end I was up for running but initially DH had to almost kick me out the house.

EMS23 Tue 04-Dec-12 19:32:17

Argh, awful bedtime. DD1 has gone up a room at nursery today, which has completely freaked her out. She's small for her age (2) anyway & not really talking and the new room has just gobbled her up. So after a few weeks of her jealousy calming down, tonight we're back to her wanting to be sat on my lap the whole time. DD2 seems unwell and has spent bedtime screaming plus my DH is away and although my mum is here to help, both DD's just want me. So 2 babies, not enough arms or lap space.

Plus I had an awful night, last night with one or the other being awake from 11pm onwards so I'm knackered. I can't wait for DH to get back, for the moral support as much as the practical help! My mum is being amazing but in the night I can't have her wait up, just incase they both wake at once plus she's exhausted from the daytime as it is!

Selfishly though, I'm glad she's seeing how hard it is. I think my family think I'm exaggerating and a bit pfb about my DC's so hopefully she'll report back that it is actually just really stressful for me right now and I genuinely don't have time for long FaceTime chats and phone calls!

Is it really narcissistic to want people to appreciate how hard it is?

bedhaven Tue 04-Dec-12 21:10:58

Hello all! May I join you? It's already feeling better knowing others feel the same. I have DD nearly 2y and DS 11 weeks (I think! I've lost count already- all adds to the guilt).
DS is a doddle, very chilled even when targetted for big sister treatment. I find myself shouting I HAVE HAD ENOUGH! Way too often and too loudly, at times I feel persecuted...by a toddler??! I've tried to be positive, especially when DH gets home but there is just less joy each day and I feel overwhelmed. I just keep reminding myself...when I've finally calmed down that she is only little and this will get better.

EMS23 Wed 05-Dec-12 19:06:17

Hello bedhaven - we all here know how you feel.
My DD1 bears the brunt of it sometimes and I feel so bad after. It's not like she asked for this new baby who has usurped her rightful position on my lap and in my arms!

This too shall pass....

I saw a friend today who is one year down the line from us (her DD's are 1 and 3) and she said "yes, it was bonkers but I'm getting there now".

3 months down... 9 to go!!

crazypaving Wed 05-Dec-12 19:43:25

well put bedhaven!

I want my evenings back!!!!!

That is all sad

debbie1412 Wed 05-Dec-12 20:22:31

Just reading these has made me smile, after a very trying day with dc1 2.3 and dc2 4wks it's nice to know I'm not the only one :-) x

Please can I have a whinge? I have got the most horrendous cold but can't take anything for it because of bf. Ds is still refusing to settle anywhere but on me in the middle of the night so from 1-6 am I am propped up on pillows with him on my chest. The lack of sleep in combination with the cold have absolutely done me in and I'm actually feeling really down - you know when you just hope no-one asks how you are because it will make you burst into tears, well that's me at the moment. DH has just made me book dd on for an extra nursery day tomorrow because I'm so under the weather that having them both is too much, so now I feel overwhelming guilt as well.

That's it, I know others have it much worse.


crazypaving Thu 06-Dec-12 19:31:36

God, whinge away CrazyHorse, that sounds shite!! You poor thing, hope you get better soon. Sounds like an extra day at nursery is just a very good idea!

Goldrill Thu 06-Dec-12 20:37:20

I've just got over a cold, crazyhorse, and I feel an awful lot more cheerful, even for all the stress and lack of sleep etc. It's just the last thing you need when you're working really hard to hold it all together. Hope yours clears up soon and an extra day at nursery is very sensible. My mum would say something about having to look after yourself in order to look after the littlies at this point I think...

Loopyhasanotherbean Thu 06-Dec-12 20:37:28

hey all. have discovered a solution to regaining your gorgeous pre-second DC toddler....spend 4 days in hospital with second DC. On your return from hospital, terrible 25 month toddler has packed his bags and angelic boy is back, loveable, kind, excited to see me and DS2, and not a single tantrum other than when i went to change his pre-bedtime nappy, which was stopped by getting him to "show" his brother how we change a nappy..

Bit drastic but worked for us....although 4 days in a hotel might be more preferable to 4 days of hospital food!!

EMS23 Fri 07-Dec-12 03:51:44

I hope you feel better soon crazyhorse. Your DH sounds like a sensible man, don't feel bad.

Loopy sorry you've had a hospital visit. Is DC2 ok now?

DH is back from his trip so things have calmed down a bit here. It's just good to have him home and sharing the load really. I felt really anxious yesterday evening so having him here to lean on helps rationalise it.

Loopyhasanotherbean Fri 07-Dec-12 11:26:36

he has bronchiolitis, we think he caught it from his brother, who i'd taken to the doctors the previous week and v annoyed as was fobbed of by GP as it being something of nothing, so DS1 was extremely ill for a week, and lost so much weight in the process that his ribs and hip bones are all jutting out, then DS2 got so ill he couldn't breath properly or feed at all and ended up in hospital on oxygen being tube fed. Will take him a while to get back to normal but the hospital worked wonders with him and so we are hopeful we won't be one of the ones that end up being readmitted. He started feeding Wednesday night, and had 4 reasonable feeds yesterday/this morning so just got to try and increase his appetite bit by bit.

chezziejo Sun 09-Dec-12 08:48:48

Morning all.

Can relate to the hospital thing. Dd carried on losing weight and Hv got her into hospital as she was concerned. She's had 8 days in there with 3 days in high dependency on 80% oxygen with IV antibiotics and IV fluids. She had positive RSV virus bronchiolitis and a bacterial chest infection. Toddler seems a bit better since we got home . He gets so fixated with things tho. It's the Hoover at the moment and he loves to kelp you Hoover up. Aything we do he has to be involved or a meltdown can occur. That said ie said no this morning and no meltdown so a bit better. Think in going to knock breast feeding on the head tho. I might get flamed but I'm just not coping with I. I had to express in hospital so she could be tube fed and have carried on with it at home bit I have lost all confidence in doing it and it scares me to the point I want to cry after she was so ill and lost weight. She's having a mix at moment of breast milk and formula. I know it's best for her but its making me feel down and tearful thinking about it. I didn't get past three weeks doing it with ds either as I just found it too much. Hope this doesn't make me an awful mum sad

Hope your all bearing up ok and all feeling better with your colds and sleep deprivation.

EMS23 Sun 09-Dec-12 09:47:29

chezziejo stopping bf'ing DOES NOT make you a bad mum. You can only do your best, given the circumstances you find presented to you at the time.
If you do stop, that is ok.

crazypaving Mon 10-Dec-12 12:22:57

Loopy crikey that sounds horrendous sad Glad you're all back home now and on the mend.

chezzie, what EMS said. Your decision, no flames!

EMS glad your DH is back - can't imagine surviving with DH away. Well done you!!

DS1 is full of snot and coughing horribly, and waking a couple of times in the night because of the cough. DS2 seemst o be on his own special 9week growth spurt so is waking more often, and I don't seem to be sleeping much. Knackered.

And we have our Christmas tree up - our first ever! It seems to be DS1's mission to strip it naked angry Poor tree.

Damn DS2 awake...knew it couldn't last, he wasn't asleep on me!!

BettyandDon Tue 11-Dec-12 13:50:42

Just found this thread and previous and signing up!

I have DD 2.4 and DD 2 weeks who is BF although DD1 wasnt (it is a shock to the system). DD2 is cluster feeding from 5ish till 11pm. DH is back at work.

I have only just managed to get both to the park which was my first trip out with both...DD2 in a sling asleep (wont sleep in cot/buggy yet) and DD1 on foot.

I only have to last 3.5 more days then DH is off till Jan smile For that I am thankful. My boobies have only just about stopped hurting although the left one a little dodgy.

No relatives or childcare used here. It's all me. Am terrified DD1 is going to miss out due to all the time taken BF her sister and don't know how I am going to get round to her activities every morning (booked and paid for!). Can I become a walking feeding machine ??

Right going to try to read the thread for some comfort...

Welcome Betty!

A quick question for you all - do anyone's babies have daytime naps in their cots or Moses baskets? This would be the holy grail for me but I just can't see it ever happening!!

Hope everyone's week is going ok, and chezzie I think I'm going to stop bf too, so definitely no flaming from me!!

EMS23 Tue 11-Dec-12 15:42:01

BettyandDon - same as you DD1 was FF & although DD2 did start off BF, it was just too much to cope with both girls, while DD2 wanted to constantly feed. I got thrush and mastitis and decided to go to FF for DD2 after a short while as it was all too much to cope with. And I have my DH at home 3 weeks out of 4!

EMS23 Tue 11-Dec-12 16:26:23

BettyandDon - same as you DD1 was FF & although DD2 did start off BF, it was just too much to cope with both girls, while DD2 wanted to constantly feed. I got thrush and mastitis and decided to go to FF for DD2 after a short while as it was all too much to cope with. And I have my DH at home 3 weeks out of 4!

EMS23 Tue 11-Dec-12 17:56:22

Crazyhorse no, DD2 will not nap in her basket yet. She sleeps in it fine at night but during the day she'll sleep in the pram in the lounge, in the bouncer or sometimes, lying on the playmat but that's my least preferred as DD1 tends to wake her up then!

It took DD1 till about 5 months old before she would do daytime naps in cot and that happened on its own so I'm going with the flow on it. To be fair, DD2 doesn't seem to be bothered with the noise going on around her when she naps in the pram so I'm happy with that.

Once in a wonderful while I get DD1 down for a nap (in her bed but has to be rocked to sleep for her nap) and DD2 down in the pram and I get to have a few minutes to myself.
Is it wrong to be looking forward to them both going to school? I fear I'm wishing it away but it will come around all too quickly.

crazypaving Tue 11-Dec-12 18:39:58

Help!! I've had the most spectacularly crap evening.

DS2 has been refusing to feed all day, bar one monster feed at 11am. He is hungry and very screamy. Why won't he feed if he's hungry???

DS1 has been un.be.lie.vable. I have been struggling not to wring his neck. He's been throwing toys, hitting the tv with his fists, and when told off and removed from the room (no mean feat with DS2 screaming in the sling) he headbutted DS2 then ran to the boiler and turned it off, which he knows he's not allowed to do. When I tell him off he laughs at me and looks delighted!!

Help, what do I do?? What am I doing wrong??!

crazypaving Tue 11-Dec-12 18:40:31

oh and how do you restart a boiler?! Seriously!

EMS23 Tue 11-Dec-12 18:59:19

I fly by the seat of my pants at the best of times where discipline is concerned but just lately, with DD1, I've been ignoring the tantrum and distracting with a game or an 'exciting new activity' (presented with rictus grin on face). It tends to work.

My reasoning is that DD1 is very put out by DD2 and basically wants my attention back. I've got my limits for which telling her off is vital - hitting being one - but for some things, like banging the TV or throwing a toy moodily (as opposed to with malice in the direction if person or dog) I ignore and distract with new game.

As for the boiler, what sort is it and can you describe the controls? I'm pretty good with boilers!

crazypaving Tue 11-Dec-12 19:45:10

EMS thank you but I googled it and got the instruction manual in PDF - it's working again! Very proud of myself.

I am just quite sleep deprived at the moment - both DS's are waking in the night quite frequently and I'm bouncing like a zombie from screaming child to screaming child during the night. DS1 has a nasty cough/cold combo which is why he's waking, but I suppose that's going to be the case until about May, isn't it. At least DS2's night wakings are a bit more predictable.

I just feel like the biggest failure ever when DS1 hits another child or deliberately does something he knows he's not allowed to, and then finds it hilarious when I attempt to discipline him! Is this normal for a 2.1 year old or am I actually just the crappest mother on the planet?

Loopyhasanotherbean Tue 11-Dec-12 19:48:26

crazypaving how old is DS2? does he have a cold and a cough?

reasons for asking is as pre my recent posts, my DS2 has just spent time in hospital for bronchiolitis, we dismissed cold/cough but ended up going to hospital in the middle of the night as he'd had a small feed at 4pm that day and then a 1 min feed at 8pm then nothing since....and he would usually feed 7min per hour daytimes and cluster feed at night till 10pm ish....so i knew he hadn't fed anywhere near as much as he should have done. He had stopped feeding because he simply couldn't breath and feed at the same time.

Slightly less worrying possibility is that he sometimes screams instead of feeding if he has trapped farts, problem is most of his farts are done whilst feeding so vicious circle, won't feed so can't fart, so won't feed...but 11am to 6pm gone is worrying to me...

Loopyhasanotherbean Tue 11-Dec-12 19:50:46

X post. My DS1 currently ignores me whenever i try to tell him off calmly, ask him nicely not to do something, through to shouting at the top of my voice. Doesn't seem to matter what i say or how i say it, i get no reaction whatsoever, he just blanks me and carries on with renewed enthusiasm. Lost for ideas but would appear to be normal (he is 25 months)

EMS23 Tue 11-Dec-12 20:00:56

crazypaving I really do think its normal for kids our DC1's ages who have just had a new sibling. I'm pretty confident to say you're not a bad mum.
It's called the terrible twos for a reason and our little 'darlings' have the added bonus of a new sibling to react to. They don't fully understand who this baby is or why it's here.

I feel so frustrated with DD1 too, I know she's better than the tantrumming little moo she can be at the moment.

This too shall pass...

crazypaving Tue 11-Dec-12 20:43:42

Thank you both, loopy and EMS! You have made me feel better - even if it's just in the knowledge that I'm not alone! Each day with both DS's feels like a total marathon at the moment. After nearly 10 weeks of it I am seriously ready for this to start getting easier. Soon.

Loopy DS1 has a cough/cold, DS2 so far is clear of it (not for long, I'm sure). Since I posted he's fed 3 times, so obviously making up for it....he's not a huge feeder at the best of times but has been on some kind of growth spurt for the past 3 days, so today threw me a bit. He seems to have 2 days per week each week where he consistently refuses the right boob confused What's that all about?

Kids, eh. Who'd have em. Little "darlings" indeed!

crazypaving Tue 11-Dec-12 20:45:06

EMS "tantrumming little moo" grin that made me chuckle

chezziejo Thu 13-Dec-12 22:35:35

Evening all. So sorry some of you are having a crap time of it with the toddlers but at the same time a little bit glad that it isn't just me grin
Dd is just over three weeks now and is a cow and gate baby and is banging her weight back on at last. Soo relieved and no sign that not 5 days ago she was in high dependency.

Ds however has been awful although towards dd he has been helping and is quite gentle with her. He is still surviving on pasta and cheese and yoghurts but to be fair looks well on it. He had a massive meltdown this evening and I don't know what made me do it but I took him to another room at home and just held him. I read somewhere to hold them tight and he fought me every step of the way. I just held him while he screamed and writhed and after twenty mins he put his arms round me and clung there for ages just sobbing. After that he was fine and ate his tea. Dp took his dummy away last night too and it was awful at bedtime but thought well he's done one night, may as well carry on and he was asleep in ten mins. This sounds stupid but its like he's trying to be in control
Of all situations and gets so upset if you don't abide by it but after this afternoons screaming meltdown, the worst I've ever seen he seems better like I've finally taken control and he's feels safe again and the boundaries finally established. I manage to stay calm as well. Time will tell I suppose and it's early days.

As for me I'm having a wisdom tooth out tomorrow and scared to death. sad

crazypaving Fri 14-Dec-12 12:01:16

chezzie well done, you're doing better than I am. ds2 lives in the sling so it's hard to be hands on with ds1. we're all suffering as a result. not sure what to do but ds2 is poorly at the moment so really needs to be in the sling

tea time is our biggest issue. without fail ds1 refuses to get into his chair, throws food, screams and refuses to eat. he's always been a great eater and it seems like a control thing to me too.

thing is I'm so tired I find myself really shouting at him sometimes and I hate myself for it. he just doesn't listen to a word I say and it makes me go a bit mental blush I wish I could just hug him instead but ds2 is literally in the bloody way. do I just put ds2 down and let him scream in another room for half an hour? what do I do?


chezziejo Fri 14-Dec-12 12:37:49

Well so far so good today. No meltdowns and that's with dd hitting the 3 week growth spurt and wolfing milk down.

I think what helped us was stopping breast feeding although that's a very personal thing but for me it's helped as dp can help with feeds now and the expressing lark was to time consuming. I have help to as mil doing all our washing etc and my mum helps out too.

With the good thing I leave little bowls of cut up apple and raisins lying around and he will snack on these. I never ask tho as it will ensure a tantrum and demands of sweets but just leave them around and he will eat them. would something like that help? Could be anything really, cheese and breadsticks or satsuma segments anything that's and quick and easy. Even a smoothie. Ds likes the innocent ones as I don't have time to make them at mo.

chezziejo Fri 14-Dec-12 12:41:37

In all honesty as well and it's probably wrong but dd has been left crying to tend to ds. I suppose its a case of prioritising. I hate to hear them cry but when there's only one of you something's got to give.

When ds was tiny and screaming and I'd had enough i used to Hoover up to drown the noise out. Terrible I know but it was one of my coping strategies and helped calm him down too. He loves the Hoover still grin

AngelDog Fri 14-Dec-12 22:35:10

Hello everyone, not been here for a while. Sorry to hear about babies having been in hospital and so on.

We are really struggling with practical stuff. DS1 goes to bed at about 8pm. Then DS2 usually has some looong feeds and I don't usually get down to housework till 9, 10 or even 11pm. By housework, I mean clearing up after dinner, putting out washing, basic things.

DH has no time to help. He spent ages this week tidying EVERYTHING ready for the estate agent coming to take photos, and now downstairs looks like a bomb site again. hmm

I get nothing done in the day. It already takes till 11am before we can make it out of the house, unless DH can help, which is only 1 day a week. Yesterday I promised DS1 I'd play with him for half an hour, and only managed 5 minutes - and that made him late for bed.

crazy, that sling problem is an issue here too. I give DS1 sideways-on cuddles. Bedtime is our worst time - getting DS1 ready takes at least an hour and a half because I bf him before bed, and DS2 invariably wakes up when I take him out of the sling, then needs nappy done and feeding, then getting to sleep again etc etc. Until last week we had to do 3x a day physio for DS1, which meant I had to put DS2 down each time. He never stayed asleep for long once I'd put him down.

crazypaving Tue 18-Dec-12 13:46:58

hi angel, I'm another one finding basic day-to-day stuff overwhelming. this is without doubt the hardest thing I have ever done. days are only survivable if I attack them with exactly the right attitude from start to finish. if I slip up slightly it all goes to pot immediately - I lose my cool and despair sets in quickly. being constantly exhausted makes it so much harder. it's so tough facing each week knowing what it takes to get through each day. I really hope I'm up to the task sad 10.5 weeks in and I'm just so shattered and desperate to know when it'll get easier. thank goodness for Christmas and a bit of k break around the corner - really need it!

hope everyone's ok!

debbie1412 Tue 18-Dec-12 16:38:58

I've said it before il say it again this thread makes me feel normal. 6wk old and 2.4 yr old. Achieving the bare survival necessities of washing and cleaning. I keep telling myself nxt Christmas I won't be breast feeding il be drinking mulled wine and the house will look a hell of a lot better. Bugger it x

crazypaving Tue 18-Dec-12 19:19:50

bugger it indeed, debbie, and bring on the mulled wine!

(not sure about the house looking better - I have a rather laissez faire approach at the best of times which drives DH insane grin)

eversomuch Tue 18-Dec-12 21:47:26

Finally popping back in after a brief introduction at the start of the thread. DS will be 7 wks later this week and DD will be 21 mo. We're still working on establishing a routine -- the dinner/bath/bedtime part is proving the hardest, especially the days when I'm on my own. But even when DH works from home and lends a hand it's still chaotic.

DS's bedtime feed happens in part during DD's dinner, so it gets interrupted a lot and he dozes, then wakes, then has a hard time settling ... I feel bad that he doesn't get the cosy, dark, quiet bedtime feed that I was able to do with DD.

Am I the only one barely getting out of the house these days? I feel terribly guilty about not taking DD out to the park as much anymore. Before DS arrived, we'd go pretty much every day; now I manage it maybe once a week and leave it to DH the days he's available. I suppose it will get easier eventually, but right now, when I do have to go out with both kids, it takes me at least an hour to get ready, and I'm nowhere near ready to face getting on the bus or tube with the double buggy, so we just stay very local.

Luckily, DD has adjusted well so far to DS's arrival. If he starts crying, she calls to me and signs "milk". If I enter a room without him, she asks where he is. And she loves to kiss him and bounce him in the bouncy chair. Really very sweet. So although a lot of each day is challenging and I don't always keep my cool, I'm forever aware of just how cute they both are and that it's all totally worth it.

I'd really, really like a solid night's sleep, though.

snowchick1977 Wed 19-Dec-12 22:12:15


Can I join?

I have a 17 month old and an 8 week old. Any tips or hints to save my sanity would be really appreciated.

I am bf the 8 week old. I have no help close to hand and dh is out 7-7.......


EMS23 Thu 20-Dec-12 16:04:57

Urgh, I'm having one of those days where I could happily run away from it all.
DD2 is not feeding well at all, refusing to drink after the first few ounces. She's not sleeping great as a result and she's dropped a centile so the HV has asked for her to be weighed every two weeks to monitor it.
DD1 had a CMP intolerance so I appreciate them being vigilant but I feel stressed by it.

It was a bad night, sleep wise and DD1 is being jealous, screamy, clingy and generally naughty today. My DH is also struggling today which doesn't help as normally we can chivvy each other along.

Why oh why didn't I leave a bigger gap between these two? I'm so physically exhausted. My shoulders and back are screaming every night and I'm asleep by 9.30pm, which is so boring!

And it's nearly Xmas and I've not been 'home' since August so I'm really missing my friends and family. We won a meal for two in a raffle but I don't know when we'll get to do that as we have no friends or family here who can babysit.

I want a weekend away, in a bliss hotel, with a huge sumptuous bed, a fully stocked minibar, a fabulous restaurant and a spa where I'd have a 2 hour massage! And I'd probably have a few cheeky ciggies, which I never do anymore but I feel like reclaiming old me today! In fact, I want to go dancing, with my friends.
Oh stop, this is just getting me down!

feeno Thu 20-Dec-12 18:32:03

Hi all. Please can I join too. Ds1 is 20 months old and DS2 is 10 weeks today. Exactly 18 months between them.

It's hard with family and friends helping me out (I have some MH problems) so I have serious respect for those of you coping on your own. I don't know how you do it! I hate to wish the time away but even I wish they were in school, but a number of years to go yet!

feeno Thu 20-Dec-12 18:32:50

ems. I know exactly what you mean. I'm a mere shadow of my former self.

crazypaving Fri 21-Dec-12 12:46:26

EMS how tragic is it that I'd love to be in bed by 9.30 every night? unfortunately sometimes we can't settle ds2 til closer to 11p.m...yawn

chezziejo Fri 21-Dec-12 13:21:02

Hi all.

I'm not coping too well myself at the moment either. I have managed to get the food shopping for Christmas done and the prezzies are wrapped but I'm not even remotely looking forward to Christmas. I hope friends and family are not to upset I havnt for them much for Christmas. I have turned into a snouty impatient mum and I hate myself for that sad but I can't seem to stop it. Ds has been better he's 2.5 but last night was awful going to bed and took two hours to settle. Dd is now 4 weeks and her feeding is terrible too -ems23- so I share your pain. She's been out if hospital 2 weeks now after her hdu stay for bronchiolitis and then got another bloody cold. I sometimes think im just not cut out to be a mum as I crave some time to myself where there are no children and its just quiet and peaceful. But then I'd probably miss them and be worrying if they were ok. Please tell me it's not just me.

crazypaving Fri 21-Dec-12 14:34:31

chezzie it's not just you!! I also frequently wonder if I'm really cut out to be a mum, and some time alone without children sounds like HEAVEN.

I've just found out my childminder can only do 2 days as of Jan, and is taking 4 weeks off in March and 7!!! in October/November for a course she's doing. absolutely gutted as she's great with ds1 and he loves going to her house but argh that's so much to take on board!!

god I'm tired. I'm struggling to sleep when I have the chance and I dread the days when I have both boys. I honestly just don't know that many people and really struggle to fill the days sad god I sound like a right loser sad

sort of dreading Christmas, mainly cos of sleeping arrangements - all four of us have to share the same room. I am a really bad, light sleeper so I will be getting precisely no sleep...

debbie1412 Fri 21-Dec-12 15:11:55

Is it to early for a sherry???

With you. Dreading Christmas, knackered, can't cope on my days with both children and not sure I'm cut out for this at all!!

Debbie - no, not too early at all - bottoms up!

crazypaving Fri 21-Dec-12 16:02:42

sherry? With a gin chaser? grin

debbie1412 Fri 21-Dec-12 17:16:03

G&T it's been 11 months since I've had one of those. Might have to pump and dump Christmas Day !

debbie1412 Fri 21-Dec-12 18:57:42

I'm having horrendous guilt today , while I've got dp home I'm going to take ds1 swimming a few times. I feel so silly but I feel like I'm missing him even tho he's around me. Anyone get those feelings???

crazypaving Fri 21-Dec-12 19:13:52

debbie yes, exactly that. Horrible isn't it sad

EMS23 Fri 21-Dec-12 19:40:29

chezzie it's not just you. Becoming a mum first time round hit me like a ton of bricks. It was not what I thought it would be and I am not the mum I imagined I was destined to be.

Having a second baby scared me witless because I think I'm so crap as it is!

Pre kids, I used to hate silence, crave company and was always out, rushing from one place to the next, partying hard and never sleeping much.

Now? Now all I want is silence, stillness and the chance to sit in one place for quite some time. I dream about that, constantly.

EMS23 Fri 21-Dec-12 19:44:27

debbie yes, I feel tearful every night when DD1 trots off to her bed hand in hand with DH, while I'm holding DD2.

Until 14 weeks ago I cuddled DD1 during In The Night Garden. I put her jamas on and tickled her tummy. I took her to her bed and kissed her good night with a little cuddle. I miss her terribly even though she's right next to me and yet spend a lot of my days wishing she was at nursery because she's such hard work at the moment.

Margie32 Fri 21-Dec-12 20:20:30

I'm back - after a brief message at the beginning - and I'd love to join you all on the quest to recover my sanity...

DS1 is 23 months and DS2 is 8 days old. DS1 has spent the last 8 days veering from crying, cuddling mess to tantruming, petulant shouter, with no warning when he's going to change from one to the other. DS2 is pretty much permanently attached to my boob - I'd forgotten how long they take to eat at the beginning, and I feel like I'm permanently pinned to the sofa.

Debbie I know exactly how you feel about missing your DS1 even though he's right there, I feel like I've handed over total responsibility of DS1 to DH and it makes me so sad sad. And yet DS1 finished nursery today and I'm slightly dreading these next few weeks and how I'm going to cope with both of them at home.

I don't remember who it was who recommended imagining ourselves next Xmas tucking into mulled wine with abandon, but it's a mental image I'm hanging onto...wine

debbie1412 Sat 22-Dec-12 09:05:22

Taking kids on a Santa Claus train ride this morning, #pissingitdown

debbie1412 Sat 22-Dec-12 09:06:02

Good morning by the way

crazypaving Sat 22-Dec-12 12:17:27

Debbie you're a brave lady!!

PamieRT Sat 22-Dec-12 13:23:00

Debbie - I feel exactly the same way. I don't feel like I'm interacting much with ds1 beyond just trying to cope and "control". And yes, the few times I'm able to ship him off to grandma's for the day, I feel both relieved and guilty. It just never ends.

Yesterday, I had the worst luck. While hanging with ds1 before bedtime, in his utterly lovable enthusiasm, he gave me an extremely painful punch to my right breast while tying to give me a giant bear hug.

The full weight of a 10.5kg toddler on a full breast is no joke. It was so painful tears just involuntary fell. Within an hour, my right breast swelled up and I developed body aches, chills and a massive headache, not to mebtion the sharp stabbing pain in my breast. A quick search on the Internet, and I found out I've probably developed mastitis from trauma to the breast. sad

That was 24 hours ago and all the symptoms are still there. Been taking pain killers which just help for a couple of hours. An alone at home with ds1 and ds2 who seems to be going thru a growth spurt - fussy and constantly feeding.

Please tell me everything will get better soon.

debbie1412 Sat 22-Dec-12 14:13:45

Pamie, you'll need anti biotics it's doesn't clear on its own very often. The longer you leave it the worse it gets. Docs should find you and emergency appt today. Hope you feel better soon x

debbie1412 Sun 23-Dec-12 09:38:50

All I want is to do is clean my house !!!

crazypaving Sun 23-Dec-12 19:46:18

All I want to do is sleep for 24hrs straight!

Happy Christmas everyone smile

debbie1412 Sun 23-Dec-12 23:03:56

It takes so long to settle my 7 week old tonight it's taken 3 hours and I'm still not sure the coast is clear. Def starting some sort of routine after Christmas it's driving me nuts !

Mylittlepuds Thu 27-Dec-12 23:46:29

Oh Jesus - i'm going to need a support thread?! Shit. DS 19 months, 23 weeks pregnant. Got a newborn nappy out today and promptly freaked out looking at it.

crazypaving Fri 28-Dec-12 14:08:32

hi mylittlepuds...only if you actually find the time to get online grin

good luck with it!

ds2 at 12 weeks has finally started going down earlier - 8pm for the last 3 nights in a row! hoping this is a gradual shift to a permanent earlier bedtime rather than a random blip

we had a good Christmas if a bit frenetic, spent at bil's with his 3 kids aged 7-12. ds1 had an absolute whale of a time and I enjoyed being cooked for and tidied up after grin didn't get much sleep tho as all in one room. ds1 freaked out a bit at nap time too and was getting 45mins sleep rather than his usual epic 3hr naps, which led to seriously stroppy toddler...

hope everyone else has had some sort of relaxation!

debbie1412 Fri 28-Dec-12 19:51:39

Hello hello, we had lousy Christmas Day up with both of them alternately Christmas Eve night. Then lily 7 wks was so tired she wouldn't settle at all Xmas day. My son 2.3 had a great day tho, the was a tip. Much better Boxing Day and yest. Is it bad to say I'm looking forward to nxt Christmas without a new born??? Lol

inadreamworld Sat 29-Dec-12 22:01:47

Hi everyone - can I lurk on this thread for now as I will be asking you all for advice very soon?

We have a 20 month old DD and are expecting another little girl on Jan 9th so am around 38 weeks pregnant. DD is quite an easy child to look after, sleeps all night, happy nature, not many tantrums - however she has delayed walking (due to hypermobility) so is still crawling/knee walking around which will make things extra tiring with a new baby.

AngelDog Sat 29-Dec-12 23:54:03

Hello all.

We're struggling a bit still. DS2 is a fantastic sleeper (disclaimer - nothing I've done, as DS1 was awful). DS1 (3 next week) has been badly behaved recently. We have a number of ongoing health issues which are taking loads of my time, especially trying to get to grips with a special diet. WE have also run out of food in the freezer - aaargh.

Now DS1, DS2 and I have thrush in various forms. hmm

11 week old DS2 has digestive issues so soils nappies CONSTANTLY. We use cloth (couldn't afford that many dosposables!) and I do a machine load of nappies every day. Between feeding, changing and meal prep I don't have any time for fun with DS1. sad

eversomuch Sun 30-Dec-12 11:08:52

debbie I am also looking forward to next Xmas when things will, I hope, be so much easier without a newborn. This Christmas just passed in a blur, mostly.

angel I hope the thrush clears up soon.

I also really miss one-on-one time with DD. Luckily, she's adapted really well to having DS around, but our daily routine is still a challenge. When DH is around, he mostly looks after DD while I take care of the baby -- sort of feels like we're living parallel lives under the same roof sometimes. I miss him too.

We're only 8 weeks in, though, and I'm not expecting things to get significantly easier until the six-month mark ... but that means we're just about one-third of the way there, right?

Is everyone doing a 10 or 11pm "final" feed? DS usually takes at least an hour and a half to settle at night, but sometimes much longer. If he settles before 8pm, I usually wake him around 10:30 or 11 for another feed; but if he doesn't settle until well after 8, then I let him sleep until he wakes to feed on his own, usually around 2 or 3.

That said, even with the 11pm feed, he still wakes up around that time, which makes me wonder if I should bother with the evening feed. During the night he'll feed for up to an hour then sleep until 5 or 6. Can't always get him back down after that. And DD has started waking at 6 (this morning it was 5), so early, early mornings are really rough right now.

inadream Welcome and good luck!

everso I thought I'd try a 'dream feed' last night at about 11 - it had no effect as ds (10 weeks) still woke up twice for feeds so I'm not going to bother doing that again! Usually he goes down at about 7.30 and then doesn't wake until 12ish then again at 3/4 which I can cope with, particularly as I go to bed at about 8!!! He's formula fed now so feeds are pretty quick and he's been settling down fairly well afterwards too so I can't complain really.

eversomuch Sun 30-Dec-12 19:03:54

whoathere dream feeds haven't been that successful here either; ds just won't feed wrll, but hopefully that will change. I keep reminding myself of all the things we had to try with dd - some bottles, for example, she wouldn't take one week but was fine with a week or 2 later. So I still start off trying a dream freed. perhaps it will work eventually.

I feed on demand and DS seems to take lots of small feeds. I think this is why he takes so long to settle. Feeds for 5-10 mins and falls asleep, then wakes 20-30 mins later to continue feeding. not sure how to resolve that. he's generally much sleepier than dd was.

EMS23 Sun 30-Dec-12 19:22:21

I'm definitely looking forward to one year from now. I'm so exhausted and this Christmas was a bit rubbish frankly.
I had an anxiety attack on Xmas day (not admitted that to anyone else)... I was trying to go out for some fresh air - sneaky rare cigarette - after the kids were in bed and I couldn't find the door keys. The more I looked the more I panicked and when I eventually got outside I stood there sobbing for about 20 minutes. God knows what my neighbours must've thought!! It was a culmination of a few days stress over various things plus lack of sleep.

Both girls sleep has been awful and DD2 has had a chest infection with cough which makes her throw up. She's dropped a centile so needs to keep feeds in really.
DD1 was CMP intolerant and on Nutramigen for her first year so I've just put DD2 on it today. I really hope it solves the myriad feeding problems we're having and helps her sleep better.

She's 15 weeks now and I go back to work in 12 weeks so I'm over halfway there. Not that I'm looking forward to work but I've got that point - 6mo - fixed in my head too as when life might even out a bit.

I hope everyone else had a good Xmas.

crazypaving Mon 31-Dec-12 11:43:43

having one of those days where I wonder why I had kids cos I'm so clearly not cut out to be a mum. dh back at work, nothing on as everyone else still on holiday and nobody to see. ds1 has watched tv virtually all morning and ds2 has just screamed incessantly. so much for magical 12 week mark. what the hell will we do all afternoon when ds1 gets up from his nap???

this sucks sad

eversomuch Mon 31-Dec-12 12:05:21

sorry you're having such a rough day, crazy. there's a thread running on the parenting forum right now packed w ideas for keeping young kids entertained on rainy days. maybe you'll find some good ideas there? sorry.on phone, so can't send link. hang in there. we all have those rough days when we feel like the worst parents ever, but I'm sure you're awesome most of the time. smile

crazypaving Mon 31-Dec-12 12:16:23

thanks for the tip, ever, I'll check it out!

debbie1412 Mon 31-Dec-12 22:06:12

Happy new year guys, im trying to read the thread from last couple of days but my eyes are knackerd and won't focus lol x

chezziejo Mon 31-Dec-12 22:30:19

Aww -crazy- course you are cut out to be a mum. I know how hard it is tho cos I often feel the same. Ds 2.6 seems much better if a bit of a sod going to bed but he's more like the pleasant cheerful little boy we used to have. Until the next phase. Dd is now six weeks and turning into Velcro baby. The only positive I can find is that she does not care who cuddles her as long as she is snuggled up to someone. Thomas the tank engine is my hero tho as he's helped me out in many sanitisation a this rainy weather while dd needs her bottle. The gruffalo is also a useful ally. It's a lot of tv time but at the miner it's helping. I can now sing you the blue mountain mystery tube tho if you like. Come on sing along, blue mountain mystery the secret in the hilllssssss. grin

Happy new year everyone and here's to all babies sleeping through soon. Well we can hope xx

chezziejo Mon 31-Dec-12 22:30:56

Sanitisation ?? Wtf? Bloody phone.

princessx Wed 02-Jan-13 10:29:44

I'm glad I've found this thread! DD is 21 mths, and new baby due to pop out on Friday by ELCS.

Not given too much thought to how I'll cope, just hoping it will all work itself out..!

princessx Wed 02-Jan-13 10:56:39

Hi there,

I'm just wondering if anyone has any book tips you can read to our toddler to explain about the baby?

A friend gave me 2 good books about mummy being pregnant, and my DD really likes them and asks for them. Did any of you use books once the baby was born that you found useful?

AngelDog Wed 02-Jan-13 13:22:18

There's a house inside my mummy was one which DS1 loved - about pg though rather than the baby being here. We just talked loads about what the baby would & wouldn't be able to do.

misscurlytot Wed 02-Jan-13 14:48:46

Hi everyone! I have a 20mo and 6mo and thinking of having another baby next year, I'm interested to hear peoples opinions on the pros and cons of small age gap versus bigger age gap....

inadreamworld Wed 02-Jan-13 20:00:29

princessx in similar situation have DD who will be 21 months on my due date (9th Jan). At least you have a definite date for baby no 2 to arrive - I just have to wait for labour to start or (more likely) to not start and to be induced (like last time). Haven't thought about how I will cope either!!

MrsLyman Wed 02-Jan-13 20:18:19

Hi there, is there room for another wee one in here just found this thread in active, haven't read through yet but wanted to introduce myself and mark place.

I have a baby (DS2, 15 weeks) and a toddler (DS1, 20 months). Finding things quite tough at the moment and I seem to be the first to have had no. 2 amongst people I know in RL so will be nice to see how others cope.

We're currently suffering from DH having been off work over Christmas, was great at the time, but now I feel like I haven't a clue what I'm doing as any semblance of routine has gone out the window. Most annoyingly DS1 will no longer self settle as DH is a big softy who will sit and hold his hand until he goes to sleep.

princessx Thu 03-Jan-13 15:40:51

Hi inadreamworld - it will be good to hear how you get on. DD is really intelligent (boast!) and she definitely knows the baby is coming soon. We've been co-sleeping for last 2 months as we moved house, and I had no energy to train her to go into her own bed. The last few nights she's been more or less sleeping on my head, then last night she went to sleep on my face nose to nose. I think she's marking her territory!

For the first few nights I'm planning on her dad taking the baby while I try to put DD to bed as normal, just so her routine isn't changed too much.

It seems like most of you are breast feeding. I'm planning to bf too, but I can't help thinking a night time bottle for the baby would make things quicker and easier?

crazypaving Thu 03-Jan-13 17:40:18

thanks everyone for the kind words!

happy new year all!!

ds2 is ill again. that's 3 times in 12 weeks, the poor little thing sad we had our worst night since he was brand new on Tuesday night, seriously grim with virtually no sleep and loads of screaming. he seems to be gradually getting back to his usual self but it's helped that ds1 has been with his childminder for the past 2 days. ds2 has been able to feed, chill and sleep. tomorrow that all changes, kind of dreading it. feel sorry for both boys as it's crap for both of them.

seriously, I'm ready for this to get easier now!!!

where is everyone else's dc2 napping? ds2 lives in the sling cos otherwise we're housebound which is just not an option with ds1 but I wonder when and how I'm going to get him into a routine? as he starts to be awake longer in the day this is going to become more of an issue.

also starting to wonder if the 4 month sleep regression is going to hit us as hard this time as it did with ds1...

inadreamworld Thu 03-Jan-13 20:04:54

Hi princessx good luck with c sec tomorrow and recovery. My DD is a great sleeper and quite happy in her own room but I am not sure if she realises another baby is on the way very soon. She knows a lot of words for everyday things but isn't saying any sentences yet and 'baby' is not yet one of the words she knows. However no probs with her sleeping in own room - am worried she will not want to share it with new sister when the time comes. Obviously that will not be for a while ie until new baby sleeps through the night.

I will be looking with interest at the advice/experiences of others on this thread.

debbie1412 Thu 03-Jan-13 21:34:24

We are having a shocker tonight. Someone kill me now !

debbie1412 Thu 03-Jan-13 22:10:20

We do a nighttime bottle gives me a break and dp some time with the little one x

AngelDog Thu 03-Jan-13 23:05:35

Happy New Year everyone.

crazy, DS still has all naps and all evening sleep in the sling at 11 weeks. DS1 was 3.5 months when he stopped needing the sling for all sleeps, so I feel reasonably relaxed, though I'll be glad when I can put him on my back! I tried putting him down this evening when he was fast asleep, but it was only 2 minutes before he woke again.

IME babies are affected really differently by sleep regressions/developmental leaps etc. DS1's 6 week growth spurt lasted a week and a half, but I didn't even notice DS2 having one!

debbie, must be something in the air - DS2 just wouldn't go to sleep this evening and was up for at least 3 hours (uncharacteristic - I think something I'd eaten might have been the problem as he has sensitive digestion).

princess, I find bf night feeds really easy. I'm lucky that DS2 is a fantastic sleeper and generally only feeds once each night. We co-sleep and I just stick a nipple in his mouth and go straight back to sleep. In fact, I've fairly often woken up in the morning thinking he's slept through, only to find he's on the opposite side of me from where he started, so I must have switched him over and fed him without even waking up properly. grin

DS1 has been having an allergic reaction for the last 4 or 5 days, which I'd thought was a viral rash. It's good it's not anything like chicken pox, but I'm struggling to work out what could be causing it.

DH starts a new job next week so I'll have to do night duty for DS1 who at 3 years old has never routinely slept through the night. He and DH normally sleep on a different floor of the house from DS2 and me, so he'll probably be very excited by the change (he'd rather have me there than DH any day). I forsee a lot of waking...

crazypaving Fri 04-Jan-13 13:29:33

angel have you been to the GP about the rash? sounds odd. good luck with solo nights

having nightmare with ds1 today. put him down for nap as usual, 1hr 45mins later he's still awake. go in lo check and he's taken his sleeping bag and socks off and is freezing. put him back in while he yawns and screams and demands to go downstairs. he's still crying up there. he's so tired he can barely function. wtf do I do??

AngelDog Fri 04-Jan-13 22:43:50

crazy, hes, it was the GP who said it was an allergy.

Nap dilemmas are so annoying. It makes me glad DS1 doesn't nap any more (though I miss my naps!)

dogindisguise Sun 06-Jan-13 00:38:56

Can I join this thread? Have Ds 25 months and baby girl 5 days old. need some tips for when Dh goes back to work although I am lucky in having almost retired mum nearby. It's very early days but Ds is currently very jealous of baby sister - he's fine until I try to hold or feed her.

Birdies Sun 06-Jan-13 18:21:34

Please can I join too? DD2 is 10 days old, DD1 18 months. DH goes back to work in a week. DD1 cries whenever DD2 does and I can't lift her as had a c-section. Hoping to get some good tips from here!

debbie1412 Sun 06-Jan-13 20:54:33

Hey birdies welcome to the mad house !!!!
How's everyone doing??
I have a rare moment to get on here for a quick update. Lily is 9 wks tomorrow she's just started to get slightly interested by hanging toys but only ever so slightly. Dp is back at work on the 14th he's had a month off dc1 isn't going to know what's happend and I'm shitting myself all over again looking after 2. Lily is using me as a dummy so we re trying to get her on the dummy in the nxt wk because as much as I'd love to let my nipples be chewed to pieces all day long ds1 will need some cuddles during the day. Starting to get longer stretches at night 5-6 hours but still very random and absoultley no where near any kind of routine.
Is anyone else struggling with demand feeding?? I'm only getting an hour between each feed but feeds only last 10mins or so. Seriously thinking about -jacking it in- switching to the bottle.
Oh and self settling??? Tips on that would be great my son did it fine but this little lady hates to be left. She has to be put down unconscious so I can leave her.
Take care mums we'l get there in the end x

annie11 Sun 06-Jan-13 20:57:01

Hi, this thread is amazing! Can I join in too? I have a little boy, 25 months, and a new baby girl, 2 weeks old. He's very bright, knows a lot of words but doesn't speak in sentences, he also doesn't deal with change well. Now he ignores the baby completely, unless she cries, he then starts shouting, then crying, hits himself etc etc... Baby mostly sleeps so he's getting all the attention... Just ignoring the flip outs, is this the right way if going about it? Dreading my husband going back to work!!!

debbie1412 Sun 06-Jan-13 21:07:30

We ignored all flip out its taken my DS 8-9 wks to adjust to dd. it's a massive shock for them. We decided we would give him 3 months to adjust then if needed start gentle coaching in jan but he came round by himself. He'l kiss her goodnight now and if we re trying to make her smile he'l sit with us.
Little steps x

annie11 Sun 06-Jan-13 22:44:33

Thanks! All my friends seem to have perfect little kids who take to being big brothers like ducks to water.... Good to know I'm not the only one with a drama king! It's odd, starts as real tears, but a minute later looks like he's just making the noises, not actually crying... He can keep up the crocodile tests for quite a while...

AngelDog Sun 06-Jan-13 22:58:11

Welcome, new people.

No time to read all the posts, but thought I'd amuse you - today I fell down our stairs from top to bottom. I slipped feet first so my bum & back bumped on every single step and got a carpet burn on my arm. I was carrying 12 w.o. DS2 at the time but thankfully he was in the sling so he was completely unscathed. smile

crazy by way of sling/non-sling sleep data, I ached too much today to give DS2 sling naps so DH put a mattress on the floor in our living room and I bf'd DS2 to sleep for naps. He couldn't sleep for more than 45 mins that way, even when I fed him again when he woke. I managed to get the sling on again this evening and he's been asleep now for 3.5 hours. grin Makes a change from spending the evening feeding.

I got a lovely break yesterday when we went out for the day as a family - DH took DS2 in the sling and he slept for 3.5 hours at a stretch then!

debbie - self-setting? ha! My 3 y.o. doesn't do it yet. grin I can't even put DS2 down once he's unconscious, so it sounds as if you're doing well. I can't complain, though - he is a champion sleeper at night.

annie11 Sun 06-Jan-13 23:06:29

*tears. Duh!

whatdoithinknow Mon 07-Jan-13 07:15:09

Great thread! My lo is 3 wks and have two yr old so gna need all help I can get! Its harder than I thought plus eldest doesn't self settle ever!! Next plan to tackle but I know she'll need to cry it out so dreading it! Just wanted to ask angel if ur lo had been ill at all before allergy? Only my eldest had rash and swelling which was allergic reaction to a virus in his system! The gp in a n e said!! ;-)

crazypaving Mon 07-Jan-13 08:39:16

welcome to all new people!

angel your nights sound amazing. wish I was a better sleeper so I could do that.

in fact things seem to be getting worse rather than better. my last 2 days alone with both boys were so awful I'm dreading the next (tomorrow) and it's affecting my sleep - I lie awake feeling stressed and anxious all night. which is so bloody stupid as ds2 went 9-6 last night with just one quick feed at 2am. I could've slept brilliantly and be feeling amazing today angry instead I feel exhausted and at the end of my tether.

why am I finding this so hard??

debbie1412 Mon 07-Jan-13 21:22:30

Crazy your finding it hard because it is hard, bloody hard ! Everyday that passes is a day closer to it getting easier. Got lily down for 9 tonight bet I'm back up there by 9.30 lol x

AngelDog Mon 07-Jan-13 22:59:34

whatdoithinkiknow, that's really interesting about a reaction to a virus. I think DS1 did have an ear infection - he is still struggling to hear what I'm saying and is very snotty. We have a paediatrician appointment for his allergies next week so if it's still going on by then, I can ask his advice.

crazy, that sounds really tough. I agree with debbie, it's tough because it is really hard. I had bad insomnia in the early days with DS1, and he was an absolutely rotten sleeper. I get up and do useful things, then I think at least I've been productive even if I'm not sleeping.

DS1 is seriously bored and getting restless with all the hanging around while I sort out DS2/shower/cook/wash up etc. The questions are constant.

I'm going to try to give him 5 mins a day of 'special time' when I'll do whatever he wants - I was reading that it can help children feel more connected and therefore more positive in general. I think more than that is ideal, but 5 mins is about what I can aim for!

Not looking forward to tonight as I'm co-sleeping with both DSs so DH can get some kip before starting a new job tomorrow. The poor man has insomnia and was awake since 3am today - even though DS1 slept through for a change.

debbie1412 Mon 07-Jan-13 23:16:39

ANGEL ive had a bath with dc1 the past 2 nights just to try to reconnect with him slightly. Seriously the only time I could give him....... guilt guilt guilt x

debbie1412 Tue 08-Jan-13 12:09:26

Well operation getting lily down earlier failed slightly. Down by 9 back up at 10 till 10.30 then up again at 3 till 4.20am. Yawn x

AngelDog Tue 08-Jan-13 23:06:06

Ugh, my super-sleeping DS2 was up for a couple of hours at 4.45am - he went back to sleep but he woke DS1 who was then up for the day. hmm

Had a bit of a better day with DS1 although he was really annoying me by bedtime! wink

debbie1412 Wed 09-Jan-13 07:30:49

Bummed out a friend of mine on Facebook just posted that her little one born same time as mine did 12 hours with only 1 wake up. I don't even think mine went to sleep I was up that often with her. When's it my turn :-(

EMS23 Wed 09-Jan-13 19:19:38

My Threads I'm On has deleted this thread for some reason so I thought it had gone dead!

DD2 is now 16.5 weeks and I think I can safely say that DD1 has finally accepted her. It's been a long, hard and at time, tearful slog to get here but I certainly makes life a bit easier.

DD1 has also gone back to sleeping through, which is great although she has a chesty cough today so I'm anticipating a bad night. Just got to hope she doesn't cough herself sick in the middle of the night. I hate changing bed sheets in the night!

DD2's sleep is awful. She was going down at 7.30pm and waking for 1 feed btwn 1-3am but she has regressed massively and is restless in the evening, requiring resettling a few times and then waking for 2 night feeds (midnight and 4am ish) and then not settling back to sleep very well.
I'm exhausted and I find the days so physically tiring with two this age as it is.

Had a very bad attack of the green eyed monster over Xmas after I saw 3 friends with perfect sleeping babies. I felt like 'why me?'.

Right now I'm craving some me time to get a massage on my achy back and to just sit quietly somewhere. I think I might take myself off for a few hours very soon!

Hopefully this post will put the thread back on my TIO so I can keep up!

GirlOutNumbered Wed 09-Jan-13 19:27:49

What a great thread to find! Just feeding Ds2 who is 17 weeks old... Or maybe 18, I ant remember. Ds2 is 2.5 and getting bathed by daddy. I also have dss who is 9. It's even more fun when he's around!

eversomuch Wed 09-Jan-13 20:01:22

sleep makes all the difference, doesn't it? For most of the past week, DS has been settling down around 8pm and waking just once for a feed. and DD has stopped waking at 5 or 6am and is making it through to 7 or so again, so I'm feeling slightly human again. not sure it'll last, though. DS woke twice last night and I'm probably jinxing us now. and it takes around 2hrs to get him settled in the evening.

I'm still finding it a challenge to get out of the house during the day - it takes so much planning and prep w/ both of them. but we did make it to the park yesterday & a playgroup today. so I feel accomplished, never mind the state the house is in as a result. takeaway tonight bc I had no time to cook.

crazypaving Wed 09-Jan-13 20:16:34

sleep! sleep is everything isn't it? having said that, so is getting out. I have to get out twice a day, pre and post ds1's nap, or we all go bonkers.

I've discovered the secret to survival too - behaving like a cbeebees presenter on speed all day. ds1 loves it and I finish the day exhausted but not too close to suicide grin it is actually getting easier now ds2 will spend more than 30 seconds in his bouncy chair. the transformation has been a developmental leap where he has finally spotted the toys attached to it, and will do 10-20 minutes in it! if I turn it to face the tv he'll do much longer

EMS23 Wed 09-Jan-13 20:31:22

Girloutnumbered - are you me?! I also have a 9yo DSS!

GirlOutNumbered Wed 09-Jan-13 20:46:39

Hi ems23... Makes getting out of the house more interesting doesn't it??!!

debbie1412 Wed 09-Jan-13 23:10:05

Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......,that is all !

lisbethsopposite Wed 09-Jan-13 23:43:05

Can i join?
Hello crazy. My ds1is 28 months and ds2 is 3 months.
I swear ds1has started looking at me with a dissapointed expression. Sort of you never really loved me.
And i never do tummy time.
And the tv is almost always on.

Failure on so many fronts.

oh thank Christ this thread exists. DS1 very energetic outdoorsy 2 1/2 year old. DS2 very placid sleepy clusterfeeding 2 week old. DS is still going to daycare for the month and I still feel knackered- how do you do it?

crazypaving Thu 10-Jan-13 09:27:07

hi lisbeth! last week was horrific for me, and this week couldn't be more different. ds1 has stopped randomly attacking ds2 and now more or less sees him as part of the furniture. ds2 is going longer and longer in his bouncy chair so I can have fun more easily with ds1. it's still no picnic with lots of screaming going on and so. many. sodding. nappies, but there is light!

ds1 is 26m, ds2 is 14 weeks today.

and I seem to have suddenly lost about 6lb! being a stressed out cbeebies presenter has its benefits!

debbie1412 Thu 10-Jan-13 17:24:28

Lily has been sparko almost all day, we are going to be up all night !

GirlOutNumbered Thu 10-Jan-13 18:24:51

H Lisbeth! I know what you mean about tummy time! Mind you, I was rubbish at giving ds1 that too!

So DS has hit 12 weeks today - the magic age where it all gets better....

That's right, isn't it?


Lifeiswhatyoubakeit Thu 10-Jan-13 19:25:37

Hi everyone, please can I join? I am 37+3 with a 2 and a half year old super-active and very demanding DS and all I have been thinking for for last 2 days is "have I made the most stupid mistake ever" by having a 2nd child now?

We have no family near and DH works very long hours (6am-9pmish, but also has a time-consuming fitness regime to help him cope with stress of job!). DS does go to nursery now three afternoons a week but during this time I have no time to rest but for the mountains of washing, cleaning, clearing up, food prep and phone calls to plumber!

DS is real handful (loving and bright, but often pushes/hits kids and I have to watch him like a hawk all the friggin time) and will not/ cannot play by himself at home. He is also a fussy eater and always request separate meals to us which we have not yet addressed (chose to try to establish big boys bed night routine instead). We go to toddler group, a crafts/soft play group and meet up with friends once a week.

I am in pain (loads of BH contractions and period type pains), exhausted (even tho we only went round Mothercare, Hobbycraft and did painting today) and guilt-ridden (have Babe on tv now instead of playing cars with DS).

It's not going to be any easier with a newborn is it? Is my unsupportive mother right - have I been foolish to have another so soon? If there's anyone in a similar situation with some honest comment please do...

EMS23 Thu 10-Jan-13 19:36:28

WoahThere - ha ha ha!!! 12 weeks my arse!!!
To be fair, DD2 is now 16 weeks and in some tiny, mostly non quantifiable ways, things are getting easier.

EMS23 Thu 10-Jan-13 19:38:59

Lifeiswhatyoubakeit - it's not easy, no and the things you think may be hard might not be yet other things, you didn't consider will floor you.
But there are good points too and I'm told that about one year from now it all becomes massively worth it!

Hang in there and talk to us here. Chances are we can all sympathise.

EMS23 Thu 10-Jan-13 19:39:47

Sorry about my shocking use of punctuation in that last post!!

crazypaving Thu 10-Jan-13 19:44:36

hi life and welcome! you'll be fine. it's bloody tough and some days you'll want to shut the door behind both kids and walk away and leave them to it grin but you'll be fine. I have 23m age gap and no family support at all. at 14 weeks it is starting to get a bit easier...some days!!

crazypaving Thu 10-Jan-13 19:46:17

and crazyhorse has the 12 week switch flipped? is everything magically easy? grin my 12w switch got lost in the post. damn postal system.

Lifeiswhatyoubakeit Thu 10-Jan-13 20:15:59

Thanks EMS and crazy! Is so good that you guys still can laugh when it is so tough. Ah yes the "switch". Vaguely remember from last time that things got marginally less horrendous at around 3 months! Ho hum! At least I have low low expectations!!

I think hormones/ sleep levels play massive part. I know what u mean crazy about acting like a Cbeebies presenter on speed to pass the time more easily but I just can't sustain those energy levels currently! (Nor can my hip joints with this lovely extra 11kg of pregnancy weight, not to mention my cervix!)

debbie1412 Thu 10-Jan-13 22:14:13

How many people here use dummies??

AngelDog Thu 10-Jan-13 23:14:57

I'm waiting for the 12 week switch too - I'd love to be able to put DS2 down in the evening instead of doing all the household jobs with him strapped to my chest.

Welcome, Life, blackcurrants, Lisbeth.

DS1 is getting really bored and annoying hanging round while I look after DS2 / do household or basic personal care type stuff. He asks constant questions (mainly 'why') and when we're at home and he's bored it's utterly relentless - usually the same questions over and over again. Drives me completely loopy.

debbie, we don't use a dummy.

We actually do loads of tummy time (I didn't really bother with DS1) but only because I have to put DS2 down to attend to DS1 quite often, so I tend to dump him down on his front. I'm hoping it means I can sling him on my back that bit sooner...

I'm constantly hungry, but DS2 seems to react to most of my quick & easy 'snacky' foods though my milk, which is a right nuisance.

lisbethsopposite Fri 11-Jan-13 00:03:45

We are having a bad and good week here.
Bad because we all have a coughing bug.
Good because wonderful au pair arrived.

Tummy time . As i haven't done it I feel guilty as a physio. Right! so what does it do? Largely develop head control. Ds is BF and so has great head control . Guilt over. Come to think about it, I have never seen a healthy adult or child to 'suffer' from poor head control . Do we need to
help baby to develop hc?
Lifeis i was induced at 38+3. In answer to prayer. Good luck. You are doing the right thing . I hope my two will be friends when i am growing weeds .
No dummy here either . Just lots of boob .

we have a dummy in the car seat and pushchair for those 'hold on, love, we are ten minutes from home!' screamy moments. we did the same with DS1 an just whisked it away when his first tooth arrived, so around the 6th month. They recommended them here as a 'you can take a dummy away but not a thumb or finger' thingy. DS1 didn't notice or protest when his disappeared so I am hoping the same will be true with DS 2. DS2 has kidney reflux(grade 5) so needs regular ultrasound things to check his kidney and bladder function, I was glad he took a dummy when they did the first one at 29 hours old! smile

mainly I think he's going to be like his older brother: boob, boob, some shouting and then more boob please! grin
he sleeps a lot more than Ds1(who didn't ) and shouts a lot less. we are hippy attachment types(I.e lazy and quite soft!) and so neither was/will be left to scream, but this one is less clingy and less inclined to snack on the boob for hours . He does a mega feed, both sides at least once, and then burps and sleeps for 2 hours. through DS 1 shouting and playing with Loud toys.
I fervently bless the order I had these two though.DS 1 being so hardcore was a baptism of fire, it makes DS 2 seem positively chilled and easy!

DH goes back to work Monday, after being at home since th boxing day birth. My mum is coming for a ten day visit (great news for us all but mainly DS1 who needs a bit of spoiling) and then around Jan 25th I am going to have to face this business like an adult . DS2 will be a month old by then and I am vaguely hoping a bit less of a boob attachment . . . I know I am kidding myself but just let me dream! at least the worst of the lochia/stitches business will be over by then.

EMS23 Fri 11-Jan-13 01:55:21

Dummy user here. Both DD's have them, although DD1 is limited to car and bed now.

Dummy here too - for going to sleep (not always) and when getting stressed out - usually when tired but if I'm not able to pick him up for whatever reason, i.e dd. I'm not worried at all about using one and even if he becomes very reliant on it and has it for longer than I would have liked, he can give it to the dummy fairy or Father Christmas when he's two. DD had one at a very young age then didn't seem to need it from about 4 mo and ds already uses it a lot more than her, but hey ho - whatever helps!!

Re the 12 week 'switch' - <whispers> things may be just a fraction easier these days. Ds will sit in a chair for a much better chunk of time these days, goes down at 7pm after a bath and has only been waking once in the night for the last week. Fully aware that this could still all change though - especially now I have jinxed myself by putting it down in black and white!!!

Oh, and I do literally 30 seconds' tummy time before bath time and that's it. Must try and do more.

crazypaving Fri 11-Jan-13 11:50:10

oh god someone rescue me...having day from hell sad sad sad

crazypaving Fri 11-Jan-13 11:54:38

crazyhorse well done you on nights! ds2 still up until 9ish every evening which is such a pain.

ds1 still has his dummy but only in bed. ds2 won't take one!

seriously. today can fuck off.

GirlOutNumbered Fri 11-Jan-13 11:54:51

Oh no crazy what's up?
I just got one from preschool, hoping they will both nap!

crazypaving Fri 11-Jan-13 12:07:17

ok. ds1 asleep in cot, vigorously bouncing an extremely narky ds2 in sling. lisbeth good to hear a physio's take on tummy time grin but I am starting to wonder when ds2 is going to get the opportunity to learn to roll - he's either in the sling or his bouncy chair confused if I put him down anywhere else he just screams, and we don't have a baby gym.

made the fatal error of not going out properly this morning. went for walk but we were back by 9am. ds1 had snack then refused to put shoes on to go to library. it's freezing and having just undressed everyone I was disinclined to fight with him, especially cos ds2 was really properly screaming. he's not having a good day today.

so we didn't go out. so ds1 has spent the morning systematically trashing the house while I've been tearing my hair out and trying to placate screamy ds2. and what do we have to look forward to this afternoon? a doctor's appointment where she's going to get on my case again about ds2's weight gain. I can't force-feed a refusing baby ffs!!

gaaah sorry will go and eat chocolate to calm down sad

debbie1412 Fri 11-Jan-13 16:42:55

Crazy........ sounds like its TGIF for you today. Lily's had her 8wk jabs today she's closer to 10 but couldn't get in over Xmas anyway she's not taken to them fantastic think im in for an evening of it :-(

debbie1412 Fri 11-Jan-13 16:57:01

Oh and I buckled last night and gave her a dummy last night. She needs to feed/suckle of me to go to sleep but she really suffers with wind do I wind her which wakes her up then she needs to suckle again and round and round we go. I was losing my cool last night after wks of being trapped in her room for 3/4 hours just for her to wake 20 mins later and the whole things starts again. ( how did I get in this mess ) anyway I gave her a dummy and off she went for 7 hours. I hate them DS never had 1 but I don't remember him being so relentless to get down.
I don't know wether to keep using them or not. I feel like I'm being lazy even tho that's what their there for.
Il see how the wkend goes.

DH and I are expats, we live in the USA . we were both reflexively anti-dummy but pediatricians recommend them here, they think sucking reduces the chance of SIDS. and I know of only one playmate of my two and half year old who still uses one. using one now does not mean you'll be prising it from your five year old's hands if you keep an eye on it.

Christ I am so tired. DS 2 breastfed from 8:30am to 12:30pm, with the odd 5-10 minutes in the bouncy chair or with DH holding him. he then slept for an hour,, waking just as I drifted off myself sad
now he is feeding again. at least we're snuggled up in bed, am tryin to doze.

lisbethsopposite Fri 11-Jan-13 19:03:57

I think dummies are great. Ds2 usually loses his quickly but he is soothed
I don't even remember weaning ds1off his.

debbie1412 Fri 11-Jan-13 20:26:51

Excuse the terrible writing, doing it while juggling a baby is quite I skill !

eversomuch Fri 11-Jan-13 21:43:32

Just a quick post as I'm knackered after a long day -- took DS into central London for the first time today. First ride on the Tube went well, though he had a meltdown for the last 20 mins on the way home. Luckily, the train was not very crowded and the other passengers mostly just smiled when I apologised for the noise.

I will also say: OMG, going out with one child is SO EASY!

Re: dummies, we're considering introducing one. DS seems to want to suck for comfort and is sucking on his hands and sleeves right now. We're wondering if it would help him settle more easily in the evenings, too. DD had one from very early on. Still uses it at nap and bed time, but I do want to wean her off it soon (she's 21m now).

Those who have weaned off dummies, how did you do it?

Haven't introduced bottles yet, either, but may do so in the next few weeks so I can start going to the gym again and getting out a bit more on my own. However, part of me thinks that since we've managed ten weeks without, maybe I should try to keep going until DS can start on a sippy cup ... don't know. I've heard it can be done. Just don't know if I can wait 2-3 more months to get out on my own again.

Also, is anyone attempting to start potty training DC1 in the near future? I think DD is ready -- shows a lot of interest in the subject, LOL, but I haven't done much reading up on the how-tos yet and don't want to start until I'm sure I can carry through with it. Not sure if right now is the best time with a tiny baby needing lots of attention. Or maybe that's a reason why it could be.

Hmmm, not such a short post after all. Good night and hope you all sleep well!

debbie1412 Fri 11-Jan-13 22:48:56

Potty training ds is kind of close he's 2.4 years I think we could deal with the poohs now wees in a month or 2. I'm not sure I can be ready quick enough for him right now. U really do need to act quick to limit accidents which disheartens them. I'm not sure with a new born I can be quick. Im thinking 1st signs of better weather. Less clothes to remove and just a more upbeat mummy. Also not read up on it. I spend to much time on here :-)

AngelDog Fri 11-Jan-13 23:12:02

everso, we went for full potty training a fortnight ago (DS1 is just turned 3). But we have been pottying him since he was 8 months old and he's been out of nappies at home since 18 months so it wasn't a big deal - we'd just kept on with nappies when out and about because it was so much easier than constantly having to find toilets.

We didn't plan to train him when DS2 was so little, but he had a thrush infection in his groin and I didn't want a wet nappy to make it worse.

I have to say it's been a real nuisance. Because he's used to being nappy free it's been a doddle because he can hold on and tell me when he needs to go, but it makes going out & about a lot harder. e.g. a 2.5 hour shopping trip earlier this week involved 2 bfs and 2 nappy changes for DS2 and 3 wee stops for DS1. shock hmm Given that each one required finding a shop with suitable facilities, we didn't get much shopping done.

Yesterday DS1 needed to poo in the street nowhere near a toilet, so I had to get out his potette (portable potty/toilet seat) and spread a nappy on the ground on top of our change mat, sit him on it in the freezing cold and get him to poo onto it. It was a bit tricky to do without waking up DS2 who was asleep in the sling.

On travelling, I've found central London with two children much easier than with one - people seem to fall over themselves to help carry the pushchair up and down stairs and on/off Tube trains (though it helps that DS1 is old enough to walk and DS2 is on the sling).

Lifeiswhatyoubakeit Sat 12-Jan-13 19:15:17

Wow Angel kudos to you for the calm and togetherness of your action plan for DS needing a poo in the street! Don't think I would've been so cool and calm.

My 2.5 DS is not quite ready for potty-training yet though I'm sure it's not far away but will put it off for as long as poss as DC2 due soon, and I've heard you hav to be super-quick to react which I won't be with a newborn. Mind you the impending production line of nappy changes doesn't look that attractive either!

We used a dummy with DS1 when he was little (2m ish) and I don't remember much of a problem stopping it later.

crazypaving hope ur having a better day - being stuck indoors with two is horrible when they are like that!

AngelDog Sat 12-Jan-13 21:42:48

When will I get my evenings back??? DS2 is 13 weeks - surely he shouldn't be awake this late any more. hmm

Lifeis, I was only calm because I'd read about someone else doing the same, so I knew what to do and didn't have to work it out for myself! smile

debbie1412 Sat 12-Jan-13 23:39:55

Mine has only just gone down. I'm aiming for 2014 :-)

lisbethsopposite Sun 13-Jan-13 07:38:24

awake since 4.30 Sick baby - cough. Asleep now.Think I'll try to join him

EMS23 Sun 13-Jan-13 12:03:27

Oh this cough going round is a nightmare, you have my sympathies. All 3 of mine have had it and the baby is still suffering. She was up 2-4am with it and sicked up her feed. Like this isn't hard enough, we have to have coughs as well!!
Hope you got some sleep after.

lisbethsopposite Sun 13-Jan-13 23:05:32

baby has been poorly several days. serious velcro time. good job his little sleepy face is soo beautiful.
ds1 too poorly for play group(3 mornings a week ). fingers crossed for next week. How much more of buddies can i take?

debbie1412 Mon 14-Jan-13 14:49:39

1st day on my own with my 2, I'm freaking out slightly. Nothing's actualy happend but I'm on egg shels thinking its all going to kick off at once. I've realised the 10 wks that we've had 2 childresn I've only spent 3/4 of them on my own as dp had a large Xmas break and 2 wks when she was born. I'm really freaking :-(

GirlOutNumbered Mon 14-Jan-13 15:08:25

You'll be fine debbie! I'm 18 weeks in now and haven't managed to do anything ridiculous yet. Apart from putting baby in 4+ nappy and that all worked out for the best.

debbie1412 Mon 14-Jan-13 15:59:11

It's ridiculous I'm in my own comfy house we don't need to venture out. Ds had nursery this morning so it hasn't even been a full day. Why is it so daunting?? Anyway day 1 nearly over and no-ones died :-)

crazypaving Mon 14-Jan-13 18:29:25

angel can sympathise with wanting evenings back. ds2 is 14 weeks and suddenly this week is starting to go down a bit earlier - holding breath as I write but he went down 10mins ago! not convinced he's going to stay down...in fact can hear him grunting... we're an hour ahead on holiday atm in case you're wondering, not actually putting my children to sleep at 6pm!

oh bugger he's awake gotta go

debbie1412 Mon 14-Jan-13 22:27:43

I love my kids :-) just thought I'd mention that as I seem to be always moaning about them x

bedhaven Wed 16-Jan-13 09:28:20

Hey ya, I thought this thread had disappeared, glad to have found it again. The roller coaster continues! I'm pleased to say I'm having a slightly better time with DD now aged 2 and DS now 16 weeks.
I've been feeling a little bit isolated. Finding time to communicate and meet up is pretty tough, I can barely reply to a text, there's always distraction so my phone keeps locking itself again and it takes 3 times as long or never gets completed.
RL conversation- my life is children, I have nothing else to talk about so I'm reluctant to speak, that is if I can be awake and vaguely alert late enough to catch friends that either work or ones that have finished school-dinner-bath-bed.
I quite enjoyed groups when DD was a baby but I went back to work earlier than everyone else and (all my own fault) I didn't make the effort to maintain contact. The groups now are either mostly first time Mum's and I don't feel I have so much in common or maybe I'm making assumptions?
It's been my 40th birthday and DD 2nd, pleased to have seen some friends and confessed my avoidance both intentional and not. Reassured to be told how normal all this is and that it will pass. Bit like here- thanks for that!
My DH has been fab, doing everything he can but he worries when I say how I've been feeling. He worries I'm not as happy as I used to be which seems so sad. At times im afraid I do feel rubbish and saying it out loud or writing it down helps so much. It's also important to remind myself of those completely joyful times, it's so easy to get caught up in the negative and forget.
I hope you all have on the whole a wonderful day, best go I've been going on long enough and DS is awake and cooing...ah!

Naturally281110 Wed 16-Jan-13 21:51:02

Hello! Glad I found this thread!! DS had just turned 2 and DD just turned 5 months. Can't get her on a bottle- not even EBM. She feeds every couple hours night and day and toddler still wakes once or twice a night. Was wondering when the time will come that I manage to pull on a pair of clean pants- even that feels like an achievement right now!! I simply drop my clothes on tbe floor at night and pull thrm back on the next morning!! The kids are squeaky clean but I look like a shocking mess!! Where did "me" go!!??! ! We had a wedding ovet Xmas and it had been such a long time since i'd got to use it my mascara had dried up- there was a time i even wore it to the gym blushI can't even get the ironing done- its not even like I want to do the ironing, it's just something else I haven't achieved during the day!! Arghhhhhh!!! DH comes home from work- the house is a tip and it looks like I've done nothing all day!!!

EMS23 Thu 17-Jan-13 03:04:08

Sympathising a lot with the last two posts, I often feel like I've disappeared. So the other day I went to a large branch of Tesco to do my food shop but bought some new tops as well, quite smart ones. I've been wearing them and keeping a lipgloss close by and as silly as it sounds, I feel a bit better for it.

Bedhaven - is it worth you seeing the doctor to talk about PND? It sounds like it might be worth you just checking.
I also went back to work much sooner than my new 'mum' friends after DD1 and so struggled to keep contact. This is so hard as it is but it's worse when you feel lonely, which I also do. Is there anyone you could re-establish contact with, scary as it might be at first? I'm shit at making new friends so I know it's not as easy as simply going to a group thing. Where in the UK are you?

AFM I'm getting very frustrated with DD2's sleep regression. She's waking frequently at night and I'm shattered. At least DD1 is sleeping through reliably again but I'm so tired. I want to sleep through!!

bedhaven Thu 17-Jan-13 09:00:04

Thanks EMS, was wondering that myself but kept thinking it wasn't that bad...but if it helps anything is worth a try.
After my last post I bumped into one of the old gang of toddler Mums and were going to meet up and I've phoned another friend to meet so spurred on in the rght direction. Thanks

crazypaving Thu 17-Jan-13 11:56:46

hi all, currently abroad on holiday. will post properly when I'm back but can sympathise with everyone! I'm well fat atm and rotate the same yucky 3 unflattering outfits. do heaps of washing but somehow never my clothes. would love to fastforward to when the boys are more independent so I can do stuff for me again.

this too shall pass, right? (when???!)

debbie1412 Thu 17-Jan-13 23:03:20

For f&£k sake child go to sleep '

Naturally281110 Fri 18-Jan-13 08:06:05

Hi Bedhaven. To cut a long story short ice recently been diagnosed with PND and anxiety by GP after being badgered senseless by DH and my mum to get checked. Have decided not to go down medication route as BF DD2. Decided to try bit of counselling to help with low mood and she recommended a website called "live life to the full" which has free help stuff. Have just ordered myself a little booklet on PND called "enjoy your baby" (!!!!!!!) www.fiveareas.com/resourcearea/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=140 and can let you know what it's like and if any help?? Is your HV helpful?? Mine had also realised how difficult I've been finding it and flagged up a course for me to go on that helps parents deal with toddlers with naughty tendencies!! If nothing else it'll force me out the house! Is there something in your local children's centre??

whatdoithinknow Fri 18-Jan-13 14:04:20

Well atleast I'm not alone in struggling with this. But a quick question...how do u know wen u are feeling down and stressed and tearful because it is hard and u are tiered or whether it is pnd? My little one is just a month old and dd2 is so demanding I feel like whoever it was that said they feel like they are starting to hate their elder one. I'm not obviously but she's relentless with pulling at lo and I'm constantly trying to defend him from her or putting him in his bouncy chair in another room just so she cant hurt him. After a day of this I'm then glad to hate a break wen dp gets home and also wkend's I'd love to be able to leave them both with him for a couple of hours but cant as bf lo so its always eldest dp helps with and he's started saying its like I never want her around. Which its not its just I've usually been battling the two of them for a few hours before he gets home and has dd thrust upon him! Also feel confused and tearful a lot. Arguing with dp think we are splitting up. Someone asked me kids names in toddler group yesterday....i knew eldest and then literaly looked down at baby in my arms whilst I tried to remember his name! What is wrong with me? Yesterday was a particularly bad day I didn't want to be in house so went to two toddler groups and then to see my mum all as I couldn't bare to be stuck home on my own with them:-( the good moments are fab but is it normal to struggle this much??

EMS23 Sat 19-Jan-13 12:44:50

Yes whatdoithinkiknow, IME it's normal to really struggle especially only a month in as you are. The way you've described feeling is exactly how I felt at that stage. I'm 4 months in now and it's much better.

As to wether it's PND, in your case. I couldn't answer that. I had PND after DD1 and although the weeks after DD2 felt desperate, I just sort of knew it wasn't PND again. I didn't feel so foggy and although its been tough and hard work and exhausting, it's felt do-able.
If you're not sure, can you talk to your HV or your doctor?

It sounds like things are shit with your DP too? What's happening? Do you want to tell us about it?

whatdoithinknow Sat 19-Jan-13 13:50:46

Thanks ems I think I'll just see how things go and keep an eye on how I'm feeling. I've never taken anything for depression in my life but have sometimes been sure I've suffered from it,at the moment it could just be the situation tho. And baby brain in the extreme??! Glad to hear things improve gradually...i'd really like to enjoy some of these early days too but I'm realising I'm going to need some help I think! Just to enjoy them both together. Things seem betta with dp today but it just gets to me that he makes his plans and acts carefree just assumin that muggins here will take care of everything at home. I know he works ft but I think going to work is far easier than staying home and dealing with things here! Then I feel guilty for feeling that because I should enjoy looking after them and I did with dd1 and stil do with ds2 but together its harder to enjoy the little moments:-( oh wel it seems this is what I signed up for! Why did I not know it would be this hard tho?lol hope your all coping better than me have had fun in snow so thats been good well dp played with eldest so she didn't miss out on anything while I was seeing to lo.

bedhaven Sun 20-Jan-13 08:43:02

FFS mumsnet not you aswell! I spent ages writing a considered reply which is not easy in my fugged up state and you log me out and it's lost and now I am being jumped on by a toddler and a furry sheep! Argghh!

Lifeiswhatyoubakeit Sun 20-Jan-13 21:10:50

whatdoithink I can sympathise with how you are feeling even though I'm not mum to two (yet, 39wks pg and DS1 is 2.5)! Just being heavily pregnant and tired makes me very snappy and intolerant of DS1 and I find myself not enjoying his company a lot of the time which makes me feel horribly guilty. And I don't even have the pressure of a newborn yet so please don't be too hard on yourself.

Looking after young children (especially newborns and terrible twos) is really really intense and anyone that says its a breeze must be lying frankly (or be Mary bloody Poppins!!)!

Remember the mantra... This too shall pass.... (I'm already doing it!) and the wonderful moments will crop p when you least expect them!

MadMonkeys Tue 22-Jan-13 11:26:17

Hi there, can I join in? Dd1 is 3yo, dd2 18wo. Things were settling down nicely, dd2 was sleeping really well but now she is teething and I think we've hit the 4 month sleep regression... Dd2 was sleeping 7pm til 7am with a quick feed at10pm (don't worry, this was never the case with dd1 so I dud my share of suffering then!) but for the last couple of weeks she has been feeding every 2 or 3 hours in the night. Zzzzzzz. Things are getting better with dd2 though, she was refusing naps, waking a lot in the night v upset, but she has had naps for the last 4 days and is happy again, hurray! We've found that getting out is a lifesaver, but that's not really been possible much in all the snow, I'm getting cabin fever...

crazypaving Tue 22-Jan-13 13:22:05

hi madmonkeys! argh 4 month sleep regression sucks. we're at 15wks and thought we'd hit it but last 2 nights haven't been too bad, fingers crossed...

I'm back in the thick of it after 10 days off. must say it sucks to be back sad I hate that every day is still such a struggle. it's hard having very little to look forward to, just the same thing day in day out. sigh.

ds2 has recently found his voice in a big way and is regularly waking ds1 which is stressful. ds1's behaviour has upped a notch and is even more challenging lately. maybe cos he's tired hmm

god I'm a moany cow. ds2's been doing gorgeous whole-face smiles and chuckles, and ds1's started to be really sweet with him, finally. although he does regularly exclaim 'oh my god ds2' loudly when ds2's crying which he must've got from me blush blush blush blush

debbie1412 Tue 22-Jan-13 14:28:20

Hello ladies didn't get dd down until 11.30 last night. We started at 8. I'm starting to dread the evenings because always by 9 I think it's going well then it all goes tits up. What age did u all start teaching to self settle??

debbie1412 Tue 22-Jan-13 17:10:08

Crazy I'm with you on that, I'm struggling already this wk it's only Tuesday lol. Looking forward to spring so we can atleast go the park in the afternoon. I was meant to start my diet this wk but in my depressed state I've eaten loads junk. I really want chocolate but lily doesn't cope well with it. It's not helping with my mood :-(

crazypaving Tue 22-Jan-13 17:48:57

Debbie yes please spring now please!!! winter with a toddler SUCKS!!

crazypaving Thu 24-Jan-13 09:08:51

ds1's last molars are sprouting! he's much less narky now, thank goodness! kind of feel a bit teary at the thought that teething is now over for him. a relief but the end of babyhood officially!

now to await ds2's first...

AngelDog Fri 25-Jan-13 19:29:16

Aaaargh. Aaargh. Aaaargh.

DS1 is playing up and DS2 is having more allergic reactions through my milk so I can't eat any of the things I want to. sad

DH is away for the weekend and parents/PIL are visiting, but that means DS1 gets even less of my attention and plays up even more.

Hello everyone, glad you're all still surviving. smile

Still hoping to get my evenings back at nearly 15 weeks - but now DS2 is big enough to go on my back in the sling, so that's progress. smile

debbie, I've not yet started on DS1 self-settling (age 3y1m) so I expect it'll be a while yet with DS2. wink

Loopyhasanotherbean Fri 25-Jan-13 20:14:22

Re getting evenings back, we have ours now smile ds2 was 20 weeks on Wednesday, and has gradually brought his bedtime forward by himself, and he was asleep in his crib by 7.10 tonight smile

crazypaving Fri 25-Jan-13 20:17:47

We got our evenings back whilst away on holiday, at 15 weeks. The downside is he's now waking anywhere between 3am and 5am. I think I preferred sleeping later to having "evenings" - speaking of which, I'm off to bed sad

MadMonkeys Fri 25-Jan-13 22:02:54

We got our evenings back when dd2 was about 14 weeks I think... Its all a bit hazy though, I can't be too sure exactly when it happened! The teething seems to have settled down again, dd2 is feeding normally again, hurray!

eversomuch Sat 26-Jan-13 11:07:20

We had one evening this week when both kids were asleep by 7.30. That was the night after it took DS until 10pm to settle (and I started at 6.30). Now he's back to going down around 8ish and DD is fussing about bedtime and waking up once or twice during the night and/or starting her day around 6. I think it's her teeth bothering her -- the last few are coming in, although no sign yet of last molars, so good times still to come! O_o

DS turned 12wks yesterday -- spent most of the day attached to me on a feeding frenzy. Planning to try introducing a bottle this week. I really need to reclaim a bit of independence and if DH could give him a bottle at the weekends, I could get out of the house for a bit. Will see how it goes. So far, he's refused a dummy, so no idea if he'll take a bottle.

AngelDog Sat 26-Jan-13 23:23:47

envy DS is 14 weeks tomorrow and spent most of the evening unhappy today.

OTOH I've yet to notice any growth spurts yet - one benefit of constant chaos. grin

Oh dear, DS1 wailing - better dash.

Birdies Sun 27-Jan-13 16:05:07

Hi everyone. The main problem I have is DD1 is 18 months but not walking so needs lifting everywhere. And DD2 (4 weeks) only wants to sleep on me. So getting DD1 down for her nap is really stressful - I never taught her to self settle so it can take half an hour to get her to sleep. And I'm not comfortable leaving baby to cry on her own downstairs all that time. So far i'm lucky in that my mum's been helping but I'm gonna have to manage on my own at some point!

Does anyone else have that problem? Where on earth do I start in getting DD1 to learn to self settle?!

mattysmum09 Sun 27-Jan-13 19:18:27

I don't know birdies but I'll be awaiting the answer!lol....

crazypaving Sun 27-Jan-13 20:12:18

Anyone got any tips for an early riser? DS2 won't settle after feeding at 4am. He then needs a nap by about 6am when we all start getting up for the day. Help!

debbie1412 Sun 27-Jan-13 22:15:22

Hello ladies on self settling ds was about 5 months. With him I would go bk in put him to the breast to soothe him then bk in his cot with mobile on. I would just wear him down. As he got bigger and doing more he would be more exhausted so I gradually got my evenings back as he was going down earlier. Dd 12 wks she's having to (a) do all naps in her bed because ds 2yrs is so noisy she can't nap down here. I've also started encouraging self settling. When I know she's tired I just return comfort and leave 10 days in its starting to pay off. We got 11 hours straight last night. I'm in no way expecting it constantly. We are all so obsessed with them sleeping through but teething is right around the corner so it's all going to go tits up again anyway.
Where I keep going wrong is I sometimes think she's not that tired and try to keep her going longer. When really I should jump on those 1st signs of tiredness and act on it there and then. I annoy myself because if she's over tired it takes double the time but sometimes it feels like she's still feeding and sleeping all day long.
How is everyone ??

debbie1412 Sun 27-Jan-13 22:18:08

Crazy I would go back to not having evenings and her sleeping through the early morning hours. I function a lot better if I'm sleeping when the house sleeps. Your evenings will come soon enough it's early days x

wibblyjelly Mon 28-Jan-13 00:21:17

DS is 4 months, and just won't settle tonight! He's asleep on me at the moment, so will attempt operation put him in his cot shortly. He has also decided that he will only take a bottle from me at the moment....

debbie1412 Mon 28-Jan-13 07:18:52

Him, sorry x

greenfolder Mon 28-Jan-13 09:00:32

what i did, back in the day was stick to routine with dd1 (2.5) and dd2 just came along- slept in the car/buggy/car seat. when dd1 finally went to playgroup, dd2 would fall asleep in the pram on the way home, i would park her in the garage so as not to wake her up and would sit on the sofa and stare into space for 2 hours!

i also remember feeding dd2 standing up in the kitchen cos dd1 would create merry hell if i sat down and fed her- moved this to sticking her in front of a video with a bowl of chocolate buttons whilst i went upstairs.

neither of them have been emotionally scarred and i think that most kids cant remember much before 3 as a defence mechanism!

Bumpsadaisie Mon 28-Jan-13 10:10:22

Just wanted to add moral support by showing you how it gets easier.

DD is 3.7 now and DS nearly 15 months. He is walking, and can feed himself. At last I can sit them both down with their plates and drinks and (sort of) let them get on with it while I tidy the kitchen (so I don't have to do that once they are in bed).

They have a bath together and need only light supervision. I can get things ready in DS's next door bedroom while keeping an ear out and popping in every two minutes.

Our bedtime routine is now easy - DS has his story and bottle and goes straight to sleep while DD reads in her room upstairs. Then I read her a story.

DD is getting on for four and is very independent now. She will go off and play in her room while DS has a nap, which means I get a nice chunk of time on my own to mess about/do jobs. She has also come out of the toddler phase. While she can sometimes be moany if tired, generally she is much more rational and amenable to reasoning with. When DS was a newborn you just couldn't reason with 2.5 year old DD, she was just a big balloon of (strong) emotions, ha ha!

Of course DS is walking and climbing everything so that part is harder than when he just sat like a podge in his bouncy chair and gurgled. And of course there are the sibling arguments!

But generally it is much more fun now, sometimes we have a real laugh at the breakfast table with them being silly with each other.

Now, should I have a third, or not?! (Noooooo!)

Onwards and upwards everyone x

dilys4trevor Mon 28-Jan-13 15:08:27

Hi ladies,

To also add light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel support....

I struggled with a just-turned-2 and a newborn for most of the first year of being a mum of two (ML second time round was alot more stressful than the first).

But just wanted to say that now they are 4 and 2 (although there are still difficult days), they play together like nobody's business, meaning on my days off (from work) I can get on with surprising amounts of housework. They love the same stuff (helps they are both boys) and the younger one is much more outgoing and has done wonders for the elder one's shyness. Plus, the younger one being a fab eater is helping the elder one try more things.
Younger DS is talking and counting and understanding loads better than DS1 at the same age.....because he hears it all from his brother and wants to impress him.
Nursery tell me they embrace about 15 times a day and that when one is ill, they bring the other one in to cheer him up.
So lovely.
Hard yards in year one (of having two kids) but MUCH better in year 3.
Now I'm desperate for a third!

crazypaving Mon 28-Jan-13 15:43:04

thank you all for stopping by with some light at the end of the tunnel! crawling towards it with gritted teeth...! really it does sound like it can be lovely, which was the reason for having the second in the first place.

economymode Mon 28-Jan-13 20:29:46

I'll be joining you soon - my son is almost 21 months and baby two is due tomorrow, eek!

I'm terrified...

Mylittlepuds Mon 28-Jan-13 21:11:08

Oh God still absolutely shitting myself about this scenario. DS1 is 21 months DC2 is due in ten weeks...the tactic I'm currently employing is to pretend it's not happening.

debbie1412 Mon 28-Jan-13 22:27:02

Crazy we can do 52 wks we'l all do it together x

debbie1412 Mon 28-Jan-13 22:27:31

Hell I'm 12 in already x

Benang Tue 29-Jan-13 00:08:11

Can I join, please? DD is 2.7, DS is 8 weeks. In the last month, we've all had chickenpox: me first, then the baby, then DD. Which means we've been housebound for weeks. Massive CBeebies overload. Someone wailing all the time (and it's not always me!). No sleep (the toddler waking up and yelling whenever the newborn does...). Nonstop stress with my husband. Etc etc.

On the plus side, DD is super nice to DS.

eversomuch Tue 29-Jan-13 06:24:00

Very nice to hear some success stories. Right now I'd love to fast-forward a year or four, but keep reminding myself that it will get easier. I'd just like an unbroken night's sleep and some decent weather to get out in comfortably very soon. Still feeling very tired and confined.

dilys4trevor Tue 29-Jan-13 09:17:08

A low point for me was when DS2 was about 8 weeks and DS1 just turned two. I hauled us all out of the house, which took hours, to a library for a playtime thingie. I was suffering from awful nipple infections at the time and feeding was agony, so I took along a carton of formula and a bottle. In the first 10 mins some other massive kid stepped on DS2's head (leaving a boot imprint). DS1 tantrummed throughout and then picked up the open carton and accidently sprayed it all over me and DS2. Meaning no milk left and I would have to use my weeping nipple. I hadn't eaten for about 15 hours and I just lost it, shouting 'YOU IDIOT!' at the top of my voice. To my 2 year old child. In a library. Who, unsurprisingly, burst into tears.
Benang, huge commiserations on the pox. Both kids had it when DS2 was about 4 months and my husband caught it. Adult chickenpox is godawful and he really suffered. I really feel for you.

crazypaving Tue 29-Jan-13 11:55:32

benang you poor thing with chicken pox - stuff of worst nightmares!!

everso I'm with you on just wanting a decent night's sleep.

ds2 had me up 4 times last night. ds1 has a stinking cold and is on his very worst behaviour. having an appalling day and I'm so shattered so am not coping well. I feel permanently like a frazzled shell of my former self, liable to snap at any moment.

both ds currently avoiding sleep - ds2 at 16wks hasn't actually slept since just before 7am. what do you do with a sleep refusing baby when you have to be out and about for your toddler? ds2 is now past it with tiredness and is driving me potty. meanwhile ds1 is trashing anything in his room he can reach from his cot, which from the sound of it is far too much.

give me strength. and chocolate.

crazypaving Tue 29-Jan-13 12:15:03

dilys I can so sympathise with your library low point, sounds awful sad today I was lugging ds2 in carseat and kicking screaming ds1 under arm across a busy carpark whilst people looked on like this shock this hmm or this grin I had a number of murderous inclinations.

debbie1412 Tue 29-Jan-13 23:15:03

I officially hate evenings. I'm still up with lily. Started putting her up at 8 and I'm still going. It's starting to really piss me off. She refuses to sleep anywhere except on me. Really really tired and fed up

AngelDog Tue 29-Jan-13 23:33:14

If it's any comfort, debbie, tonight was the FIRST time in 15 weeks that I've been able to put DS2 down for a sleep in the evening. Admittedly I had to feed him again after 45 mins (a looooong feed) and again a bit later, so overall I probably wasted more time than I normally would by having him in the sling.

The longest he's stayed asleep lying down without me is 5 mins though, so that's progress.

Many sympathies to everyone upthread. smile

crazypaving Wed 30-Jan-13 16:32:02

when is ds2 going to be happy to be put down in the day? he's 17wks tomorrow and still a total Velcro baby. I want to be able to get down on the floor and give ds1 my full attention again. the sling helps but isn't perfect.

I'm just tired of being a crap mum to both of them. can't give either my full, proper attention, I'm bloody tired and I've sort of had enough really. thought it'd be easier by now.

Benang Wed 30-Jan-13 19:10:51

Ah, thank you crazypaving and dilys4trevor. I dreaded the pox but it wasn't as bad as I'd feared--DS was over the newborn period by the time he got it, and his case was very mild, maybe thanks to the antivirals I was on. But I feel very stoopid for not getting vaccinated before I got pregnant.

Current status: one child plugged into CBeebies on iplayer, while eating instant risotto, the other one dangling out of the sling at a precarious angle (which he insists upon, I might add).

I am so tired I can't speak properly, and clearly can't do the bold text thingy.

AngelDog Wed 30-Jan-13 19:37:36

Sympathies, crazypaving - I find it hard to get down on the floor too, even though DS2 is really happy to be put down when he's awake. That must be really wearing.

Loopyhasanotherbean Wed 30-Jan-13 20:23:50

Re putting down in the day. If you mean awake, well ds2 is 21 weeks today and as long as he is well fed and winded and not ready for a sleep, he is happy to spend time in his rocking swing. He is even more happy to spend time on his play mat with arches and hanging toys, and even more happy to spend time in his jumperoo - he will happily do 30 mins or more in there. He has a bouncer chair but he doesn't like to be in there for long, as he is at the stage where he tries to sit upright and the bouncer chair is too reclined for his liking!!!!

If you meaning putting down to sleep in the day, ds1 would not sleep in the day unless he was in the car or on me. We later found out that this was because he had really bad reflux and it was hurting him to lie down. Took till he was 9 months before he would sleep in his cot in the day. Ds2 doesn't have reflux, and he will already have at least one of his daytime naps in his crib, although it does involve rocking him for a couple of minutes to get him to settle asleep. That's the bit that frustrates me as he will self settle at night and first thing in the morning but from about 9am onwards he refuses to self settle! Because he is so big now (wearing 9-12 month clothes!) we need to move him out of his crib into his cot, which we won't be able to rock.....so I foresee problems with getting him to settle....

debbie1412 Wed 30-Jan-13 23:30:40

After a Shit few nights, I've stuck a Muslim in Lily's cot with sprayed breast milk all over it. She's gone down from 9.10 no probs. might be worth a try x

crazypaving Thu 31-Jan-13 10:42:01

what did the Muslim think about the breastmilk spray? sorry that did make me arf grin

consulting the oracle of babies, the wonder weeks, apparently ds2 is in the middle of a bastard nightmare fussy phase which should get better at 19 weeks. 2 to go then, yippee. and at 19 weeks he'll suddenly lie on his mat and kick and coo happily, right? ds1 was just like this. I ordered an easier baby this time angry

debbie1412 Thu 31-Jan-13 14:03:38

The Muslim loved it ha ha, fricking phone x

eversomuch Thu 31-Jan-13 19:17:00

omg, the Muslim. funniest thing I have read in, possibly, forever. thanks for that. much needed after a rough dqy, during which it seemed that at least one but usually both kids were crying.

DS's daytime sleep pretty non-existent right now. DD took a 2hr nap in the afternoon but woke up screaming & crying & wouldn't stop for an hour. I first tried comforting her and distracting her but when neither worked, I just had to let her get it out of her system. refused a bath (2nd day in a row) but was otherwise a darling the rest of the evening. DH finally home & putting her to bed while I try to get DS down. he' asleep in my arms right now, but has lately been waking whenever I put him in his cot. at least he sleeps pretty well still at night.

another day coming to a close w/ me feeling annihilated by these two.

crazypaving Thu 31-Jan-13 19:57:57

benang I like your style grin DS2 tends to hang out of the sling at impossible angles too - most of which have been outlined by the manufacturers of the sling as being unsafe/unhealthy - and DS1 has been existing on ready meals since DS2 was born blush One day I will cook again...

And everso, annihilated is indeed the word. When they're both screaming at the same time I start a chant in my head "it can't get worse than this, it can't get worse than this..." But apparently it can go on and on and on and on and on!

EMS23 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:19:31

My Threads I'm On doesn't show this one for some reason so I lost you all for a while there.

Came looking for you because I'm having the worst day, can't stop crying and just need to remind myself that I'm not alone and it will get better.
But right now, honestly, I hate this.

crazypaving Sat 02-Feb-13 19:40:59

EMS sorry you're struggling sad You ok? how old is your DC2 now? I think my DS2 is going through a really intense period of development and it's buggering everything up. I felt like you last week, and am hoping next week will be better. Today wasn't, but at least I had DH here!

EMS23 Sat 02-Feb-13 20:10:17

Thanks crazy.. DD2 is 20 weeks now and for the first 3 months it was DD1 (2.2yo) who was the nightmare but she's calmed down now which is great.
DD2 on the other hand is just such hard work. She doesn't sleep. She wakes every hour through the night and I'm exhausted. It's been like this for weeks. Despite a milk intolerance DD1 was sleeping through by this age and I guess I stupidly expected the same.
DD2's also on special milk but it doesn't seem to be helping her the way it did DD1. I had to fight the doctor to get it prescribed and now I'm not even sure it's the right thing for her. I'm doubting myself and wondering if its something else which makes me worry constantly and feel so anxious.

I feel like a shell, all I do is survive each day and I'm lonely because I live far away from my family and friends and I can't cope with the thought of going home for a visit and all the organising that would take to get us all there and the sleep nightmares it would no doubt entail as DD1 doesn't sleep well at my parents house.

My DH is wonderful plus he works from home so I'm not even on my own day to day like most mums are.
But he's very proud and there's no way I could ask anyone for some help (like my mum to do a night shift for us as a one off) as he just wouldn't have it.

I go back to work in 8 weeks and have a 1 hour commute each way (driving) and the idea of that, if DD2 still isn't sleeping by then just terrifies me. I'm not sure how I'll do it.

I know I just need some sleep and I'll feel a million times better but I'm wishing away the next 5 years at the moment and feel like I'm not enjoying the things I should be.

crazypaving Sun 03-Feb-13 08:43:34

oh ems you poor thing, that does sound hard especially with work looming. it's so easy to doubt yourself. waking in the night a lot at this age isn't uncommon though - have you come across the 4 month sleep regression? sounds like that's what it could be? ds2 atm wakes at midnight for a feed then is up for the day at 3am which is pretty crippling.

it sounds like your dh is being a bit unreasonable though, unless he takes his fair share of night duties? if he doesn't help at night I think you should tell him exactly how you're feeling and get help, stuff his pride. it's a bit silly for you to suffer for the sake of his pride.

a lot can change in a few weeks though so don't despair. don't be embarrassed to go back to GP and ask for help just because you pushed hard for the prescription - everyone makes mistakes, including doctors, and having been through it with dc1 you had every reason to suspect the same with dc2. don't beat yourself up, this isn't easy.

big hug for you.

ds2 is currently asleep on me hmm with boob in mouth. I don't have enough clothes on and am freezing but am too scared to move and risk waking him. pre-dc I would've thought this situation entirely ridiculous and would've sworn I'd never do anything like it. ha.

debbie1412 Sun 03-Feb-13 14:13:59

Ems my friends little girl has a milk intolerance they went through about 5 diff formulas before they found one that suited her, they had to really make a nuscience of themselves to get listened to. It's only because these modified milks are expensive that the doctors are reluctant to prescribe them. Is she under a specialist ?? That got the proscess going for them moving alot quicker. I do feel for for you because I remember the utter frustration my friend felt about not being listened to. X

debbie1412 Sun 03-Feb-13 14:16:41

CRAZY I had a complete meltdown this morning because I was sick of having to be in a state of constant undress in this cold weather to feed my child and he could swan around all warm and cosy wearing whatever he wants lol x

EMS23 Sun 03-Feb-13 19:55:08

Thx crazy and Debbie.

DH, to be fair, is absolutely great and does his fair share both day and night. Generally I do more of the baby stuff, while he looks after DD1 and DSS. After DD2 was born and DD1's sleep went haywire, that meant he was actually up more in the night than me! Right now, I'm up more but it's swings and roundabouts.
He's just got this weird thing about us not having any help at all. It infuriates me TBH. In the last 2.2years (since DD1 was born) we've been out together twice, and one of those was a wedding and I forced him to leave the kids with my parents. He says we're parents now so no need for us to go anywhere without the kids. I hate this but I won't leave him over it and he won't change so stalemate!
Because I live far from family and friends, it means I'm very isolated. Asking my mum to come is a big deal involving hotel stays etc.. If we lived closer I think I'd find it easier to force the issue.

Anyway, yes, I have read about the 4 month sleep regression so am hoping it is that and at 20 weeks we should be coming to the end of it! Perhaps the milk intolerance is a red herring.

The doctor cited the cost (£50/ can, we need 3 per week) as a reason he was reluctant to prescribe it but after some discussion with the dietitian (who we haven't seen yet), he was advised to prescribe it till they see her. I don't know when that appointment will come through. Soon hopefully but it's not like they'll test her, so I fear I'll never really know.

Sorry, this post is a brain dump. I feel like a shell of a person at the moment and I feel sad for the fluffy blissful parenting experience I thought get. This is my last child so I guess I'll never know what it feels like to enjoy a newborn as I've hated the first year with both my kids now.

crazypaving Sun 03-Feb-13 20:09:38

ems fwiw I can't imagine how anyone could possibly enjoy a newborn. toddlers are great, but babies? ergh.

debbie1412 Sun 03-Feb-13 21:24:09

Noooo I love babies, admittedly the 1st 12 wks are -afuckingnightmare- a challenge. Lily grasped at a toy today under her baby gym. I was having a downer ( seem to be having lots of them at the wkend ) ( when dp is at home ) it's made my day and its the start of 1sts. I love my little boy but his toddler ness sends me into a panic weekly at how fast he's growing up !

debbie1412 Sun 03-Feb-13 21:47:59

Ems that's so sad for you, I hated the 1st 6-7 months of dc1 I now know I had pnd but I never sought help tbh I knew I felt low but I didn't realise it was that. It has effected my relationship with my son he's very much a daddy's boy and he'l go to him before me anyday. It's Made me over compensate with dd I won't let her out my sight. Try and enjoy it I know it's hard x

Pascha Mon 04-Feb-13 17:16:39

Hello. Birdies directed me here. Nothing to add at present, too brain-fried from cooking tea for toddler and joggling the boy in the sling. He's head butting me now but at least DS1 has a plate of food in front of him.

I may lurk for a while and post random stuff at 3am...

Pascha Mon 04-Feb-13 17:17:55

Oh yes, DS1 is 2.5, DS2 4 weeks.

annie11 Mon 04-Feb-13 21:05:54

News from the frontline.... Baby is now 6 weeks old, big brother is 2.2

I expected things to have settled down by now. Instead, it feels worse. Looks like baby has colic, and her brother still hates her, screams every time she makes a noise, started hitting me and baby too when I feed her. He hardly eats anything, and appears to have turned into a small teenager. Everything is a battle of the wills! Health visitor said they'll be " keeping an eye on him" due to his repetitive behaviours and inability to deal with change, trying to come to terms with what this might imply.

Feel so drained, disheartened and low. I have no close friends I can talk to. I feel like a crap mother, like my babies hate me. Just no light at the end of the tunnel at the moment sad

AngelDog Mon 04-Feb-13 21:38:15

annie, much sympathy. Have you tried changing your diet to see if it helps the colic? I now realise that lots of DS2's early screamy evenings were due to dairy intolerance. He also reacts via my milk to all nuts, seeds and I think to tomatoes, oranges and lentils, plus one other food we're trying to identify at the moment which caused first sick, then nasty poo.

6-8 weeks is when newborn unsettledness usually peaks, so hang in there, it should improve soon.

DS1 has had allergy tests which confirmed several more allergies including one I really hoped we'd been mistaken about. sad More tests in a fortnight. He also is reacting to things through my milk and it's a real guessing game to try to work out what. Food is a complete nightmare, especially as he refuses all veg apart from things he's allergic to hmm and I try not to give too much fruit as he has yeast issues at the moment.

And I would LOVE for my evenings to start before 9pm. DS2 is 16 weeks now - I hoped he'd be settling earlier by now. Even when he does sleep it's on my front in the sling - I can't put him down. A child-free cuddle with DH would be nice but currently impossible. hmm

annie11 Mon 04-Feb-13 21:59:38

Thanks, sorry you've had such a tough time! I don't think it's food intolerances- seems the same whatever/ whether I eat! Hope it settles soon... I think the toddler is the more difficult one to deal with at the moment, sweet little boy just turned into Kevin the teenager overnight... But on the other hand I feel I really upset his world by having this baby, feel guilty even though I love them both

debbie1412 Mon 04-Feb-13 22:12:05

Hey guys, when do u start leaving your little ones to cry it out at night. I don't agree with controlled crying, I can't relax in feel anxiety whilst its going on so there's no point me trying. Dd 13 wks has self settled a number of times so I know she's capable. Maybe 2-3 times a week. What I don't do is leave her when she starts whinging after putting her down, I go straight up and cuddle her to sleep. Should I leave her for 5/10 mins to see what transpires or would you say she's to young. Also would it be classed as controlled crying??
I'm getting muddled as to what to do as I know she's got the makings of a good sleeper in her but she also knows she doesn't have to try that hard before mummy comes back in to see her.
Opinions ???

MadMonkeys Tue 05-Feb-13 21:23:44

Debbie - for me it depends on what kind of noises they are making - if it is just whinging then I'd leave mine to see what happens (my DD2 is 20 weeks and will now settle sometimes from a whinging start!) but I wouldn't leave a baby this age who is properly crying. That's just what I think though.

DD1 has got much better this last couple of weeks - a combination of her sleeping better again and me being more on the ball and getting out of the house more often. And last night DD2 slept from 10pm til 6am!!! Wow, I could hardly believe my eyes when I looked at the clock when she woke. I did wake up in a puddle of milk though grin

AngelDog Tue 05-Feb-13 22:12:54

debbie, for me, never. smile I think controlled crying is basically leaving them for 5/10 mins at a time to see if they settle. It's not recommended before 6 months.

If they were whingeing that'd be different - I think some babies need a whinge before they sleep, depending on whether they increase tension by crying or decrease tension by crying. e.g here: http://www.askmoxie.org/2011/01/tension-increasers.html

debbie1412 Tue 05-Feb-13 22:14:54

I do love my kids I do love my kids...... This chant is getting me through this evening !

crazypaving Wed 06-Feb-13 16:08:04

Debbie I mostly chant 'I love my bed' whilst glaring at kids wink on the crying debate I'm also not in the cc camp, didn't with ds1 and won't with ds2.

so tired. still waiting for things to get easier.

debbie1412 Wed 06-Feb-13 20:32:21

I've given up in trying to force the self settling, currently rocking to sleep. Just going to go with the flow and pray shel turn out like dc1 and get the system by 5-6 months x

MadMonkeys Wed 06-Feb-13 22:17:43

My dd1 was rocked to sleep for 8 months or so then one night she whinged a bit and settled herself as if by magic. I tried cc once when I was really struggling and vowed never to do it again, it was awful and didn't work. That day was the worst I've had as a mother. Cc is just not for me. I'd forgotten about that article Angeldog, its good isn't it.

jenbird Wed 06-Feb-13 23:45:24

Can I join in please. Bit late as dd2 is 10 weeks and ds 2 is 2.8 but I am on my last legs! Dd is utterly gorgeous but I think (hope) we are coming to the end of her colicky phase. I still can't put her down for long and she doesn't sleep much during the day but at least she isn't screaming. Ds is playing me up immensely. He totally senses my weakness at the moment and is doing his best to push all my buttons all of the time. With this and my older two (7 and 5) I feel stretched to the limit and an utterly crap parent. Please tell me it will get easier soon.....and if not that you share my pain!

debbie1412 Thu 07-Feb-13 13:52:33

Hi Jen welcome to the madhouse :-)

Birdies Thu 07-Feb-13 18:39:36

I can finally put my 6 week old DD down in the afternoons! In case it helps anyone else, what's worked for me is:

- i swaddle and feed her
- dark and quiet room
- side to side fisher price swing
- I let her sleep on me for a bit before putting her in

I take her out when she wants feeding and she goes back in afterwards. Am worried I'm speaking too soon but my Velcro baby is not so stuck on me now!

Right, can anyone help me get her to go more than 1-2 hours between feeds at night?!

crazypaving Fri 08-Feb-13 12:20:18

ds2 at 4 months is still the great un-put-down-able baby. I mean, 30-60secs after being put down he is completely screaming the house down. it makes the day so difficult with ds1 and I'm really really sick of it. play with your goddamn play gym, child!!!

welcome to new people. I shall let you know the very minute anything gets any easier.

EMS23 Fri 08-Feb-13 19:49:45

I went to a new playgroup today and found myself telling another mum that yes, it's getting easier and I think I actually meant it!

I have bad days, obviously and only a few days ago felt like I was really going to breakdown. But generally, overall, most days, it's getting easier bit by bit.

DD1 played with and around DD2 a lot today. DD2 looks for her siblings now and is genuinely interested and entertained by them, which gives me a few minutes to walk away from them.

Still getting next to no sleep at night but that's a desperate issue.

So, in conclusion, IME, it gets easier at approx 5 months (21 weeks) in!!

EMS23 Fri 08-Feb-13 19:50:43

I meant sleep is a separate issue, although it is also desperate!!!

Liu38 Fri 08-Feb-13 20:45:35

Hello all!
I don't know if this is the right topic to ask my Q. But I will try my luck with hope to get some advice.
We have a 3 years old boy. He is lovely, still waking up at nights, wont help to put his toys away, wont eat, just store his food in the mouth.. But he is very loving and funny. But I notice, that he is jealous.
Q is: I would like to have one more child, but my big worry is- how will DB cope???

Lostinwild Fri 08-Feb-13 21:51:43

Hi Berdies and Crazy. Just to cheer you up a bit- my DD was just the same.Could not put her down for a bit. It was a nightmare. But time goes by, and goes fast, and now she is 21... and I don't see her for days before she will pop in for money grin. So enjoy now, girls, whilst they need you.
It is not easy, but when you are feeling low or down, when you feeling like near hating them, just think about future, think that it wont last long before they will be embarrassed to give you a kiss or hug in front of their friends...
Hope that helps. Best wishes to all of you..

Lostinwild Fri 08-Feb-13 21:58:26

Annie, try try probiotic yogurt ( dannon activia ) 20-30 minutes before feeding, it helped for my son, and for my neighbor worked.
Good luck.

debbie1412 Sat 09-Feb-13 21:46:07

Liu38 - if he's jealous what a great way of helping him learn how to deal with it. I think jealousy is in all of us even the ones who would never admit it. He's 3 so he'l have abit more understanding of what's coming. My ds was 2.4 he never knew really that his world was going to be turned upside down. I was worried to but he actualy coped pretty fair. 14 wks in he now gets quite protective of our dd. Growing up I think it's nice for them to have a sibling to play with, get excited about Xmas with. Not have to hang out with mum an dad all the time. I wouldn't let how he is at 3 let that effect the decision. Plus think of the free time you'll have when they are old enough to entertain each other :-)

Lostinwild Sun 10-Feb-13 13:32:27

Debbie, thank you for advice (well, it's me, Liu, I just changed my nick ). My DD grow up as only child, same as me, and I feel like it wasn't too great. I mean, it's not the end of the world, but something is missing. And to be honest, your advise helped me a lot. Thank you.
But wouldn't it be too big gap? 4 years?
Cos my kids got gap of 18 years and they are not very close. I know, 4 y -not 18, but still...

Lostinwild Sun 10-Feb-13 13:40:13

Buy the way.. About controlled crying. I don't agree with it as well. My DD started to go to sleep on her own when she was about 4. My DS still cuddles up with me before falling asleep. That does not take long, only 10-20 minutes. But without stress and tears and broken hearts.
It all depends on you, really. If it's o'k with you to spend some time in their bedrooms, don't worry. In the end of the day, they won't demand you to sleep with them when they are older.
But it's all up to your own life stile.

debbie1412 Tue 12-Feb-13 22:59:37

Well today I did the 90 min + drive to my parents house today with my 2 then back home. I really had to go out of my comfort zone to do it and thankfully they were angels Both ways. Il sleep happy tonight....#Iftheyletme

Benang Sat 16-Feb-13 14:42:27

Hello all, looks like this thread has gone a bit quiet but still it's been reassuring to read that I am not alone (not that I'm wishing the travails on anyone, but, you know...). Seriously thinking of trying to get referred for counseling or CBT as feeling overwhelmed, exhausted, also very sad about my relationship with toddler DD, not to mention DH. We're all sick again, she was up puking in the night, and instead of being sympathetic I just can't stand it anymore. I know I'm not being nice enough to her. And I know I can't expect her to be nice to me. But! But! Every response from her is 'no.' Everything she says to me is a demand. Or so it feels, anyway. DH helps when it suits him, which sometimes is lifesaving, but I dwell on the bad bits (like him saying why did I have two children if I couldn't cope... mind you, he said the same thing when I--we!--only had one, so it wasn't a surprise). This too will pass? But will we all still be in one piece?

debbie1412 Sat 16-Feb-13 22:33:42

Hey benang, where has everyone gone?? Hopefully they all have sleeping through babies. We have a ds 2.6 with chicken pox and dd 15wks on her 3rd night of trapped wind.... Not fun x

crazypaving Sun 17-Feb-13 08:53:54

I'm still here. with a ds1 whose response to everything is that he doesn't want it, unless it's postman pat, and ds2 who wakes twice a night and is up for the day at 5.30. still, it's an improvement on the 3 weeks we had of 3.30-4.30 ...

my patience is regularly wearing very thin sad

Birdies Sun 17-Feb-13 11:02:56

I hoped it had gone quiet cos everyone was sorted as to how to look after toddler and newborn!

No such luck here either. Getting a bit more sleep but only cos DH is letting me lie in in the morning while he looks after DD1. Problem I have is DD1 crying everytime DD2 makes the tiniest of noises..,which is pretty often. And also I'm relying on the TV for her almost all day at the mo, which makes me feel like a bad mother. Does anyone else use the TV too much?

benang it'll all pass but get the counselling referral if it will help you in the meantime. Nothing to lose (except I guess finding the time for it).

debbie are our babies immune from chicken pox because of our immunity passing to them?

crazy postman pat as in on the TV? So you must have same TV problem as me?!

crazypaving Sun 17-Feb-13 12:10:24

birdies yes postman pat on tv. I used to think it was a lovely program. now I'd like to hit that village with an ak47, I'm that sick of it. and we've been lent a postman pat special delivery service helicopter which sings the stupid song angry omg it makes me go a bit demented with rage.

ds1 is being incredibly difficult this weekend. all he wants to do is watch tv and eat cereal bars. he does swimming with dh every Sunday, which is normally a highlight of his week but today he had a huge tantrum and had to be brought home early. I really feel out of my depth with him atm sad

Debbie hope your chickenpox is mild and over quickly. I still have that to look forward to....confused

debbie1412 Mon 18-Feb-13 12:59:33

I'm not sure if they are immune! I'm hoping so. It's rare in babies. It takes so long to show its self we won't know for a wk or so x

Benang Mon 18-Feb-13 16:29:16

Oh yes TV. DD watches way way too much (or DVDs in our case). But as the only other things she wants to do are be read to or play complex games that involve me playing all the minor roles and doing all the running, TV is a very frequent option. The theme tunes run through my head at night.

Re pox: I don't think the baby is immune if breastfed by an immune mother, but perhaps the case is less severe?? Mine had a very mild case, even though I wasn't immune.

I just saw my health visitor for the 6 week check (at 12 weeks...) and she basically said that as I'm planning to go and stay with my parents in about a month there's no chance of a referral in time. She also strongly hinted that I should stay there to weather the storm and sort my head out. And I think she's right, but it's a bit depressing as far as my relationship with DH goes. I know I'm lucky to have the option of going home--12 hour flight away!--but it feels a bit like filing myself under Can't Cope. Oh well, it was sort of vindicating that the HV regarded having a baby and a toddler as something of an emergency situation by its very nature smile

eversomuch Mon 18-Feb-13 19:36:19

Finally popping back in. the past 2 wks or so have been manic. DS is now 15wks and lately will hardly let me put him down during the day. occasionally spends 10 or 20 mins on a playmat but more often cries whenever I try to put him down. makes getting things done quite tricky. DD went through similar around this age; I think it's a growth spurt & developmental leap. Fx it will pass soon. at least he sleeps ok during the night. (only up once or twice)

I do, however, feel like we're still just in survival mode and I feel like everyone else is handling two under two much better than we are. I still struggle to find time to cook decent meals and DH and I gave zero quality time together these days. still hoping it will all get better by month six.

crazypaving Mon 18-Feb-13 20:18:37

eversomuch snap - feel exactly that - am sure everyone else is handling things better than me. Glad to read I'm not the only one feeling that! And snap with an unputdownable baby. Mine's 19wks and still has to be held all day every day...and if put down, has to be interacted with at close quarters. Practical hmm

AlwaysWashing Mon 18-Feb-13 20:42:01

Can i join in too grin
I have DS1 23 months & DS2 11weeks.
Both me & my DH work from home (albeit very pt on my part now) so that I have DH within ear shot all day makes me feel a bit of a fraud finding things difficult some days. I KNOW I have it easy & our boys have the benefit of having us both around.
DS2 is a little treasure 'though is still getting to grips with the whole sleeping business, DS1 has until the last few days been lovely but is now making it clear that the terrible twos are on their way.
What I find most difficult is maintaining the level of interaction DS1 has come to expect and thrive on and to give DS2 the same start as we gave his brother. DS1 is pretty bright & I don't want to "dumb him down" by fobbing him off because I have to do something with DS2 - equally I want to give DS2 all the 1:1 time that DS1 enjoyed. Most days end with me feeling guilty for achieving neither.
Meal times are fine atm: DS1 in high chair at the table with crayons and paper at the ready for when he's finished and DS2 in the carrier ready to be whipped out if he needs feeding.
Bath times working so far.
It's just the sleep........oh for 6 hours sleep envy. If DH doesn't get enough I have three babies and a grouchy me to deal with all day. If we can just crack the sleeping we'll be just fine!!!

crazypaving Wed 20-Feb-13 12:29:31

hi alwayswashing! your nn rings true...!

debbie1412 Wed 20-Feb-13 16:08:28

How is it every one else's babies love a bumbo but both of mine have hated it ????

debbie1412 Wed 20-Feb-13 17:44:54

Feeling totally cut of from the world now, chicken pox sucks!!!! Lilys not slept well today so Daniel has had to fend for himself pretty much all day. An evening of mothers guilt to look forward to x

Loopyhasanotherbean Thu 21-Feb-13 20:40:42

We don't have a bumbo, mine never got to like or not like, I don't like them and don't think they are safe or good for their development, and as we have big babies, waste of money for us - ds2 is only just about right stage to sit in one and I know there is no way he would now fit into one!

Boo re chickenpox.

Definitely just surviving here too. Ds1 asks me so many times mummy play please, and I feel awful as feels like we barely ever play now compared to pre ds2. Ds2 24 weeks and over 20lb weight now, so too heavy for his bouncer chair and now rolling so if I put him on his mat he rolls within seconds then needs rolling back as he gets stroppy, then he rolls again, then I have to roll him back etc etc. he won't spend long in his rocking chair. He will do a short period of time in his jumperoo but then there is the increased risk of him pooing up his back which then creates more work! Too heavy for me to carry for long and he's not that happy about being in the ergo for long. Willing the next few months away ASAP!

princessx Fri 22-Feb-13 11:49:33

Hi there, I've got DD 22 mth and DS 7 wks. I've not checked in since he was born. But actually first few weeks much easier than now.

I can put Ds in sling to get dishes done etc, but I've no idea how to keep dd entertained when I'm busy (basically all the time) or what I should do with her to spend quality time.

The result is any time she gets left to her own devices she literally ransacks the house. I actually don't tell her off because it's not as of I've given her an alternative to do. I feel I should set up some game start her off and leave her to it.

My survival routine at the mo is to get us all out the house one way or another, lunch in a cafe (ridiculous I know but saves prep time and clearing up) nap for dd in buggy, then cbeebies and ransacking the house till bed.

You will be horrified by my sleep solution I am actually 100% co sleeping with both. Working quite well at the mo.

Anyway any tips on how to keep little toddler occupied gratefully received.

princessx Fri 22-Feb-13 12:32:12

Forgot to say I feel at a guilty disadvantage as dd has been in full time nursery 8-6pm till recently so feel I haven't learned how to play with her at this age

crazypaving Fri 22-Feb-13 19:45:21

loopy same here, wishing the months away and surviving...just. I get seriously impatient and lose my rag too quickly atm sad I'm just so tired and things build up.

ds2 still will not be put down but constantly when held or in the sling, drooling everywhere. ds1 has days where he does the exact opposite of everything I say. sometimes it all comes together in a perfect storm, I snap and things get a bit shouty. I need to be so careful though, ds1 has started shouting and it's copying me sad Fuck, I'm so unprepared to be a role model. today I lost it and threw something across the room. ds1 just finds it fascinating and he's such a little sponge, I dread to think what he's learned from that.

I feel like a shit mother every. single. day. sad both ds just want 100% attention and I can't even give them 50%. argh.

crazypaving Fri 22-Feb-13 19:46:21

*constantly wriggles when held or in the sling

debbie1412 Fri 22-Feb-13 21:27:09

Ransacks the house....exactly the same here... I'm not sure we'l ever recover x