Dad does't get on with five year old son

[JM70]

Advice/experience would be much appreciated... My husband often doesn't get on with my five year old son, and it has been like this for some time. It is exacerbated by several things.

My son prefers me to his dad. He doesn't want his dad to get him dressed, take him to school, give him his bath etc etc. I insist however that his dad still does all these things, because I don't want to give into it. However, his dad does harangue him all the time - he is continually telling him off, and I can understand why my son doesn't like it. I don't like it either - it makes me tense so it must make my son feel even worse. My husband doesn't believe this is the problem when I try and tell him - but he does get very upset from time to time - and will tell our son that he would be better off with out him.

The background to this is that my husband hasn't really been working for almost two years now. The occasional part-time work here and there. Means that I am the breadwinner, and that leads to tension between us, this is made worse by the fact that I've been off sex more or less since my son was born. Plus I have a demanding job, and prioritise that, and my son - I don't have the energy/will to give much time to my husband which I know can't help things. Our son, of course, picks up on the fact that things aren't always happy between us, and that makes me anxious and sad. I'm committed to my husband though, deep down I still love him, but feel rather worn and jaded towards him right now.

I'm afraid that my husband projects his bad feelings about himself onto our son's angry reactions to him. So, for example, tonight, he didn't want my husband to give him a bath, and my husband angrily gave up, wouldn't speak to him, and said to me that he is hurt because he thinks our son must be ashamed of him. I can't believe that our boy could have any understanding of his dad's situation that would make him feel that way (he isn't aware that his dad is out of work). Instead he cried because he thought that his daddy didn't like him any more. I think the problem is that my husband doesn't let himself enjoy his time with his son any more - but instead has got into a rut - of telling him off, or ignoring him while he works on his laptop. He doesn't want to hear this though.

What to do? I would so love them to have a happier relationship - it makes us all unhappy, and long term, it is so important for boys to have a good understanding with their dad...

[mrsruffallo]

I think your DH has to be honest with himself here- does he really spend enough time playing with your son or does he spend too much time busying himself with other stuff?
I can guess the answer, and your DH is the adult so he needs to make the effort to give him positive attention, PLAY together and certainly stop these silly guilt trips that he putting on DS.
I imagine it will get better as your son grows older but only if your DH sows the seeds NOW.
It's easy to fall into particular patterns of behaviour but as the grown up it is DH's responsibilty to change it.
Good luck

[mrsruffallo]

Also, DH will feel empowered in taking positive action to heal his relationship with DS, therefore his self esteem will soar, confidence will grow and he will become very attractive to you again,,,sex life returns, everybody is happy...

[JM70]

Thanks mrsruffallo - it helps to have your support and confirmation of what I already thought. He doesn't want to be honest with himself, and to make these changes, and I think when I suggest it to him, it actually makes it worse, as he feels criticised (and to be honest it is a criticism - but he doesn't know how to take criticism, especially as he is so down on himself). I really don't know how to fix it!

[JM70]

ps - what is dh and ds? well I can guess the h is for husband and the s is for son - but what is the d? (I'm new to mumsnet you might guess...)

[mrsruffallo]

D stands for darling. There is a list somewhere- I think it's under getting started.
I would suggest that they go somewhere together whilst you get on with housework. Be very enthusiastic and say how geat it sounds. Are you in London? The Imperial War Museum would be great or even just the local swimming pool or something.
It will do them both (but esp DH) to go somewhere different I think!
Make sure that DS is really excited to , so that he doesn't moan about wanting to go with you

[mathanxiety]

Your DH needs to get himself into counselling for possible depression and certainly for personality issues, and fast. He is projecting, you are right. He is being very self-centered and immature. An adult shouldn't be "not talking" to a child -- this is childish sulking on the H's part. He is messing with your DS's mind. He needs a proverbial kick in the behind. He needs to be told to grow up, and act his age. Your child needs a father, not this overgrown 6 year old.

[mathanxiety]

PS -- this is how my exH behaved with our children; they all deeply resent having to spend time with him for his weekend visitation. The oldest hasn't spoken to him since she was 15.

[JM70]

Thanks mrsruffallo (again) - your idea of planning an afternoon out for them (on a regular basis perhaps) sounds a good one. I want to help my husband get out of this - but it gets so strained, and I'm short on time, because of the work and mothering (less of the 'wife-ing') balance. That could be a win-win idea.
And, mathanxiety - thank you too... it is good to have confirmation of what I feel. Confrontation doesn't work with DH (believe me I've tried it!) - makes him spiral into self-blame/passive-aggression; maybe that is familiar to you as well. Wish I could get him to go for counselling, but just am afraid that the situation could make a bad situation worse (ie he would take it as a criticism - not help!). So sorry that your exH was similar - life is hard enough without pushing your loved ones away - it must be really hard on you all.

[JM70]

ps - I'd be interested to have a man's perspective on this if there are any reading...

[mathanxiety]

Yes, the passive aggression is something I am familiar with, JM70. It's very frustrating to have to deal with someone who will neither lead nor follow. Is there any way you could sit him down and make him understand that he has some choices about what sort of help he will seek out? For instance, either relationship counselling or personal counselling for himself as someone who is unemployed and feeling bad about himself, or family counselling so you can all be on the same page about parenting? Make it clear he must choose one or come up with a good constructive idea himself.

Maybe you could ask him if he'd like some time all to himself every week, away from the cares of home some time for a hobby or activity (does he have any friends?) not talking about time to drink, here, but to socialise, play a bit of some sport, get a bit of exercise, go to a gym or whatever he might like to do. Exercise can help with feelings of depression, and getting out with others can give you a better perspective on your own life; perhaps he could make a contact that would land him a steady job?

If you present him with choices and make it clear that you love him but that this is difficult for you, and you hate to see him suffer when you know things could be better, etc., maybe he would listen? You could reassure him that you're confident he can get back on track...

Call him on it every time you see passive aggressive behaviour as a response. This is a destructive form of communication that has the potential to be very damaging to your relationship.

He must understand that he is an adult, and he really must stop relating to the DS as if he was another child.

[JM70]

Thanks mathanxiety - all helpful advice. Interesting what you say about him relating to his son as if he were another child - as he said yesterday that DS treats him as if he were his brother - and not his father. That makes much more sense to me now.

[coldtits]

Oh, your poor little boy.

You need to make it very very cl;ear that he isn't responsible for his father's abusive behavior. Personally I couldn't live with a man who treated my child as a scapegoat for all that was wrong with his life.

[Heated]

Dh says he doesn't sound like he's being much of a dad and yes, it's direct criticism.

His role as his father is to protect ds from the crap, not be the source of it.

Dads normally get the fun stuff to do with the dcs and he's missing out on lots with his son. If he's serious about changing, fostering a good relationship with ds and giving him a happy childhood, then he ought to get down to see his GP pronto as he sounds depressed.

[JM70]

I know what you mean and I've thought of ending it, but would rather fix it if I can. DS loves his dad (so do I, and I also feel sorry for him), and it isn't always like this - but an emerging pattern that needs to stop.

[choosyfloosy]

I'm sorry to hear things are so tough. Reading what you have said, I would prioritise the relationship between you as a couple initially before trying to 'fix' the relationship between your husband and your son. You've been off sex for five years??? That's crap for everyone. Don't think I'm blaming you - it must feel that everything is your job at the mo and you are carrying the world on your shoulders. Well, it isn't and you shouldn't have to, but I think you and your husband need some serious time together to talk about how things can improve between you. Like Relate, for example.

Re son-care, could you do a few of these jobs sometimes jointly? e.g. give your son his bath with all of you in the bathroom (orthe bath?), glasses of wine for the grownups, apple juice for your son? Could your dh destress the getting dressed by doing a star chart for your ds to dress himself? Could you take one morning when you all go to school together as a family outing, rather than as a job that someone has to succeed or fail at?

You sound horrendously stressed. I wonder also if your dh has a good relationship with his mother - maybe he could go and visit her -they might chat?

Best wishes, I hope something can improve for you all.

[mathanxiety]

"as he said yesterday that DS treats him as if he were his brother - and not his father."

That is complete projection, JM -- the reality is the other way round.