I Don't love my Daughter!

(274 Posts)
LouLou80 Fri 07-Aug-09 05:07:23

hi, my names Louise, i am 29 and i have a husband who i have been with for over 10 years. i have a 9 year old Son and 3 years ago i had twins, a boy and a girl. I have a situation that i often feel guilty about and i wonder if its normal for this to happen. Basically i love my boys to bits but i do not love my daughter, i never have done. I do care about her and i don't wish any harm towards her but its always been about my boys. When the twins were born I immediately bonded with my second Son but had trouble bonding with my daughter. I totally focused on my newborn son and resented having her around. It got so bad that after 6 months i took her to my mums and left her there. I would see her quite often either when i visited my mum or my mum came to me and i made sure that the boys got to see their sister. i would give my mum money towards her food and clothes and i would make sure everything was ok. I even enjoyed seeing her at times but was always glad to leave her behind afterwards. Earlier this year my mum sat down with me and said that as much as she loved having her live with her she felt that it was time for me to try and bond with her more and suggested that it was time to have her live with me again, i agreed to this so she came to live with me in April. Three months later she went back to live with her nan because it wasn't working at all. Perhaps we didn't give it much time but she missed her nan, her nan missed her, the boys were not used to having a girl around 24/7 and as for me? well i really tried but i just don't love her like i love the boys. So now things are back as they were. She is part of the family and always has been treated as such and i make sure that she sees plenty of her twin brother as its important for them to have a relationship, he sometimes goes and stays over at his nans and they get to spend plenty of time together. So i don't have any concerns there. But its the fact that i don't love my daughter that does sometimes bother me and i do feel bad that i rejected her the way i did and that i took her and left her with my mum. As it happens my mum loves having her and she is a fit and active woman so its not a problem. But why don't i love my daughter like i love my boys? any thoughts/advice? i'm not a bad person am i?

limonchik Fri 07-Aug-09 05:40:08

There was a documentary on channel 4 a while ago called "Help Me Love My Baby" - you might be able to find it on their website. It was about mothers who didn't bond with one of their children for various reasons, and the therapy they had to help them get through it. Maybe you would find that useful?

HuffySpice Fri 07-Aug-09 06:25:22

How very sad.

I don't really know what to say.

I think your mum is right, and that you need to address the problems. Sending your daughter to live with her Granny might be working okay, but it's more of an 'out of sight, out of mind' situation, than a solution. I know you say that she is part of the family, and that you don't have any concerns about her relationship with her brother, but I am not sure that she will necessarily see it that way as she grows up.

You say that you do care about her. I think you owe it to her to try harder than three months after three years of not living with you. Limon is right, councelling or therapy might help.

giraffesCanRunA10k Fri 07-Aug-09 06:31:13

just came on to post exactly what limonchik did! Its still on their website, theres 2 one with 1 baby and one with twins, very good documentaries.

babyignoramus Fri 07-Aug-09 08:54:49

LouLou80, I'm no expert but perhaps the stress of having twins to deal with is a factor? You already have a son so the second one might have seemed 'easier' while the daughter became a complication in your mind. Could PND have been a factor?

FWIW, I don't think you're a bad person at all, but I do think you need to address this. You owe it your daughter and to yourself. Good luck.

LittleMissTuffet Fri 07-Aug-09 09:16:26

What about your DH? Was he happy for you to pack his daughter off to his MIL's?

ilovetrees Fri 07-Aug-09 09:16:55

I can see that you are concerned with this situation and you know that something is amiss. I would say what others are saying and you need to talk to a professional about the length of time this has been going on. My feeling is that there is something unresolved in your past that you're probably not even aware of that is driving this.

Also, I can't help feeling very sad for this little 5 year old girl and how she will see this in years to come. This is why it needs addressing now.

I hope it works out well for you and this doesn't mean you are a bad person, just needing some help with it.

Tortington Fri 07-Aug-09 09:17:26

i had a 3 yo boy then had BG twins - i felt exactly like you regarding my girl
she was the difficult first born, she cried all the time whilst twin two was quiet
she has breathing problems she had to take medicine for a urinary infection - she was in scbu for two weeks - anything and everything that was difficult about the situation revolved around her.

i had to travel back to the hospital ( no car) everyday with ONE twin and one 3year old to see her.

she didn't stop crying for months.


but she was mine, ny responsability - lifes hard it sucks sometimes

i think your mum is being extraordinarily selfish and not seeing the big picture.

i think you are too

you don't perservere with your daughter becuase its really rough on you

welcome to motherhood darling. i mean jesuz

poor poor poor little girl who has a mummy who doesn't want her.

seriously get some help

get your daughter



i had to physically try hard. i could see myself favouring the boys for many many years. i had to remember to give her hugs - give her extra hugs and kisses - try harder - for us both - it was my job.

i am pleased to say that my 16 yo daughter is the most lovely well manners, funny intelligent person. she outshines the boys every single day.

i love her so very much i can't begin to explain. when she got her period - i was there - we went shoppin to celebrate, when she broke up with her first serious boyfriend, she came in bed with me and cried.

i wouldn't miss those moments and many many more = not for anything.

it takes years YEARS NOT MONTHS - and its hard.

so what

shes your kid - seriously i am flabberghasted at both you and your mother.

Lizzylou Fri 07-Aug-09 09:20:39

I agree with babyignoramus, I think this could be rooted in the stress of twins.

I really hope that you can work through this, your DD does really need to be back in your family home.

You are not a bad person, you made sure that your DD would be cared for, but you need to try and sort this out now before it is too late.

PavlovtheForgetfulCat Fri 07-Aug-09 09:22:59

Custardo, a very poignant post, it has made me cry!

I think it blows anything I have to say out of the water.

teamcullen Fri 07-Aug-09 09:24:01

I think your very brave coming on MN and telling your story.

I cant really offer you any advice, just wanted to offer my support. I hope you get the help you both need. I think the documentaries will be a good place to start, knowing your not the only person to feel this way.

Is your GP aware of the situation, Im sure that would be the first place to start.

Lilyloo Fri 07-Aug-09 09:24:18

This is very sad especially for your daughter.
I don't really think that 3 months was enough time to try and make it work with your little girl.
Did you get any extra support / counselling etc when she came home ?

ZZZenAgain Fri 07-Aug-09 09:25:08

you absolutely have to go and get therapy to see if you can get this sorted. It cannot be that your dd has something in her which is causing you to not to love her. It has to be in YOU for whatever reason, so you have to get to the bottom of it ASAP.

What does your dh have to say about all this? I take it you are still together

squilly Fri 07-Aug-09 09:28:55

You know this situation is wrong or you wouldn't be posting on here about it. You must worry about your dd's relationship with both you and your boys. It's only natural.

What's not natural is leaving this little girl with her granny and abandoning her. I know, you've ensured she's cared for, so you haven't neglected her, but she has been abandoned by her mum. How do you think that will make her feel when she's old enough to realise it? What if something happens to her nan and she suddenly finds herself living with you again in the worst kind of circumstance?

My friend was handed over to her gran as a small child whilst her siblings remained with their parents. She stayed in South Africa with grandma til she was about 6, then she came to live with her parents in the UK. She has had such terrible depression throughout her life as a result of this and she can't understand, to this day, why she was abandoned.

You need to seek professional help with this, face up to your responsibilities and re-own your little girl.

CustardofatJesus, your post is far from fluffy, but quite rightly so. You, of all people, must be able to see this car wreck happening much more clearly than most of us.

Personally, I feel a little sorry for the OP as I feel she's missing out on so much. Little girls can be such a delight. And at least the OP is bothered enough to realise it's not right or she wouldn't be posting.

Go sort it. It's not too late and you could all gain so much.

stubbyfingers Fri 07-Aug-09 09:32:00

This may sound harsh but my gut feeling is that you are setting up your daughter to have serious issues as she grows up - you are potentially causing enormous emotional and psychological damage to her if you don't put some effort into dealing with this. As she starts to understand the stituation she can't help but see that her mother didn't think she was lovable, and what messages does that give her about who she is? That she is worthless? Has no value? So why should she value herself? Some people manage to overcome serious issues from childhood, but many, many people never learn to feel loved and happy and it has a detrimental effect on their whole lives.

As others have said, it does sound like counselling for you would be the first step and undiagnosed PND could have been a factor. Please take the first step for you both.

minxofmancunia Fri 07-Aug-09 09:32:36

brilliant post from custardo, I don't think you're a bad person and although I can sympathise with your situation i can't empathise.

My heart breaks for your little girl and what she's got ahead of her, emotionally when she realises she was so easily rejected.

tbh i don't think either the way you, your dh or your mum is behaving is acceptable. This needs addressing NOW via a psychotherapy referral, nhs or private if neccessary. This is imperative for the emotional and developmental well-being of your daughter.

Your post looks like you haven't tried very hard and taken the easy route via your Mum, there's soem skewed dynamics going on here, if it hasseemed like you'd tried a bit harder i would have more sympathy. Sorry to be so harsh but I'm a bit shocked tbh.

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 09:33:02

Lou,you need to get some help.some talking therapy.if you can print out your OP take this to GP.ask whether Improving access to psychological therapies is available to you,or counselling.perhaps A family support worker to help you

this needs a deep exploration of the reasons

to an extent your mum has colluded with you. you left her your DD and she raises her.this maintains the atatus quo of dd being estranged from her brothers.this is deep stuff.they are family,siblings and yet she visits like a close acquaintence

what does your husband say about this?how does he feel his twin daughter lives with granny

this wont resolve without some deep therapeutic exploration.a lot of crying and looking for some understanding
and longer term some solutions

LouLou80 Fri 07-Aug-09 09:34:09

I always wanted a couple of boys, i never wanted a daughter. When myself and my husband decided to start a family we knew we could end up with a girl but i sort of thought that i would be ok with that and that i would still love her. But i never thought i would completely reject her. Yes i think having twins was hard for me but if it had been twin boys i would not have sent one of them to stay with my mum i am quite convinced of that. I think she knows that i treat her differently to her brothers, kids aren't stupid and i do worry what effect its going to have on her as she gets older knowing that her mum didn't want her. I want to try harder with her but when she came to stay for 3 months i just felt like she was in the way and i know its terrible to feel like that. She wasn't happy either, she really missed her nan. The boys see a lot of their sister and have both stayed over with their nan plenty of times but they are not used to her being around all the time. Possibly if she comes to stay for weekends or something and we could do things gradual and see how that goes rather than have her come to stay permanantly right off.

Lilyloo Fri 07-Aug-09 09:36:21

Whilst i can understand you obviously have issues with regards to your daughter i am surprised that your sons feel anything with regards to her being her there 24/7. I do wonder if this be more about how you feel not them ?

stubbyfingers Fri 07-Aug-09 09:36:22

By the way, I realise my post was rather curt and I do want to say that you are extremely brave in coming here to talk about it, knowing the kinds of reactions you are likely to get. You already have taken the first step really in doing that haven't you?

GossipMonger Fri 07-Aug-09 09:37:01

what does dh say tho?

I cannot imagine my husband allowing me to give of OUR children away!!

staylucky Fri 07-Aug-09 09:39:36

I can't believe you took her to your mums. I can't relate to this at all.

I had difficulty bonding with my dd, but nothing ever wouldve made me send her away.

I think if you had the one child I could understand this but how can you have others you treat fairly and then another you pack off?

Has something in your own childhood affected your relationship with her?

lockets Fri 07-Aug-09 09:39:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ZZZenAgain Fri 07-Aug-09 09:42:13

do you know why you never wanted a dd and felt so strongly about that? Is there a reason for it that you are aware of? I mean perhaps you have a younger sister or something and you resented her arrival?
Could something like that lie behind it all?

You see, I'm wondering if your rejection of your dd is based on behavioural patterns you learned as a dc, if so with work that must be something you can un-learn.

I do hope you get some counselling that can help sort this out. Does dh not want his dd at home then?

staylucky Fri 07-Aug-09 09:42:26

I can't see how sex matters either, baby boys and girls are much the same.

OurLadyOfPerpetualSupper Fri 07-Aug-09 09:42:44

I urge you to read Custardo's post over and over again.

There are many people who post on here expressing the pain they still suffer as a result of maternal rejection, often struggling not to repeat it with their own LOs.
What's your excuse? Were you badly parented/abused/rejected?

Just because your DM (and, I assume, your DH) goes along with this doesn't make it okay.

None of this is okay - it just isn't - and it's your job to rectify the situation before irreparable damage is done to a little girl and a potential mother to another member of the human race.

Have a look at the Stately Homes thread and see how people have been affected by this sort of thing.

stubbyfingers Fri 07-Aug-09 09:44:04

OP, why did you only want boys? Is there something there that's bothering you?

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 09:44:14

Lou,what des you DH say about this.his child estranged with no prospect of returning home. this is storing up a big emotional time bomb for all of you
>maternal disapointment
>seperated siblings
>gender Favouritism

honestly do you want to sort this out and have your DD return to the family home or are you wishing to discuss on MN but maintain ststus quo

LouLou80 Fri 07-Aug-09 09:44:46

To answer peoples questions about my husbands feelings on this. My husband has expressed concern but he tends to go along with the flow.He goes to see our daughter a lot and often takes her out with the boys and sometimes just by herself. He sees more of her than i do. He wasn't as fixated on having boys as i was, he loves the boys but he wasn't bothered either way about having girls or boys. My mum had 3 boys and i was her only daughter and she has always moaned about how she wanted another daughter, i think she was kind of glad when i gave her mine to look after.

OurLadyOfPerpetualSupper Fri 07-Aug-09 09:45:55

I wouldn't be surprised if depression wasn't a factor in this; if you were/are depressed, you weren't aren't yourself, but you need to get that self back in order to deal with this.
And I agree that your mother isn't helping by enabling this situation.

minxofmancunia Fri 07-Aug-09 09:49:48

you say tou "feel terrible" and you have come on here to talk about it so that's a start but there's a distince lack of empathy and understanding for your little girl in your posts. There's the sense that she's come along and messed up your idea of your perfect family.

I've come accross this knid of thing at work a few times, i.e. families where one child doesn't fit the mold and is just packed of to a relative/foster carer. I do struggle with it tbh despite trying to understand. The loss for the child is so intense and horrible, I've seen it first hand it's just awful.

Your dh seems to be colluding with you in letting this happen. I had pnd and bonding probs with my dd after birth (although not because she was a girl) compounded by colic and hating breastfeeding but there's no way dh would have let me give her away!! (not that i wanted to, stopping bf really helped). If forced he would have chosen her over me, and I would choose her over him! the child is more important. That's the reality of parenthood.

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 09:51:24

your family dynamics are all mixed up.you all need some family therapy.lou you have a dd and she cannot be a substitute or additional girl for granny

your husband goes with the flow?
permisable when discussing groceries to go with flow.when estranging your daughter from her siblings totally unacceptable to be so blase

sadly,your mum colludes and your husband should wake up from the emotional stupor and reclaim his family

ZZZenAgain Fri 07-Aug-09 09:51:56

Louise, I doubt very much that anyone on MN will tell you that you are doing the right thing. I don't want you to feel like I'm beating you with a stick, I see it's hard for you but it has to sink in with true clarity that this cannot be a long-term solution.

Not wanting your dd at home is preventing 3 other people having a natural relationship with her: her two brothers and her dh. A lot of us have phases where we don't like our dc or some of them very much because they are being very difficult, we cannot though just abandon them to someone else. If we did all terrible twos would be out on their ear, not to mention all the teenagers. It's a huge responsibility having dc and a lot of it is forcing yourself to get on with it.

Does she call you mummy? Think about it a bit. When she starts school at the very latest she will realise how unusual her situation is and ask herself why she is not allowed to live with her mummy and daddy like other dc. At that stage I would say you would have caused irreparable damage.

I know your mum is probably doing the best she can but his is just not an acceptable solution.

bethoo Fri 07-Aug-09 09:52:14

i find it hard to believe your dh would allow you to palm off yuor dd to your nan. i really feel for your daughter as she will no doubt have low self esteem or confidence and this is a bad combination to have as a teenager and a young woman. she will never reach her potential as the trauma of her childhood will affect her so badly. i mean if her own mother does not want her then who would? please sort this out and like Custardo said it takes time. there is no quick fix solution here.
i think you had a mind set before having a girl that you would not want her and after having her you did not try to bond wiht her, you had her written off from day one.
sorry to sound harsh, i have a ds who i adore and a 9 month old dd who i feel i did not connect to as much due to mother daughter issues with my own mother which made me fear the cycle would repeat itself but i still love her and know i can break the chain.

MollieO Fri 07-Aug-09 09:53:11

You need to get professional help now. If you leave it any longer you will reach a stage where you will never be able to have your dd to live with you and for her to feel like part of her own family.

Lilyloo Fri 07-Aug-09 09:53:22

I think it's even more sad that your mum and dh have allowed this to happen too.
They really should have supported you in getting some help with your feelings to your daughter rather than put your little girl in this position.

LouLou80 Fri 07-Aug-09 09:54:38

I am not sure why i only wanted boys. I just like them more than girls. When i was 16-17 i used to look after my neighbours two young kids while she was at work. The little boy i really bonded with and i thought he was great, wasn't so keen on the girl. One day the girl said to me 'why do u like my brother more than me?' i couldn't give her an answer but i instantly felt guilty.

I also know someone who has girls and never wanted a boy. when she was pregnant with one of the babies she went for a scan and got told she was going to have a boy. When she got told this news her response was to cry like she had just been told she had a terminal illness. When the baby was born and turned out to be a girl she was totally relieved. So its not just me who has a preference to the gender of my children. It's not something i feel is right though, not at all.

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 09:57:16

so what are you going to do Lou
>1st step GP for some counselling referral
>get on waiting list for family therapy
>some 1:1 therapy for you

bethoo Fri 07-Aug-09 09:57:23

Lou i am sure your friend would have bene fine once the baby was born. please dont make excuses for what you have done. it was not right, sorry.

LouLou80 Fri 07-Aug-09 10:00:39

i wasn't making excuses bethoo, i was simply saying that i am not the only person who has preferences regarding the gender of my children

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 10:01:50

lou you clearly have some deeply embedded attachment and gender issues.do try seek professional help. your posts read quite flat in affect and lacking in empathy.

only you know your experiences etc but you dont have to be a prisoner of your past.and your wee girl doesnt need to be estranged from her siblings and parents

this could change
if you allow it to
if the family dynamics and living situation are explored

but i do think,this is an issue for a professional.

weegiemum Fri 07-Aug-09 10:02:38

My mother rejected me at 12. It has left me with lifelong psychological issues.

Please try to get help to make things better with your daughter. I did and I have good relationships with my 2 girls and my boy, but it has been a hard struggle for me.

You are not a bad person (as you ask in your OP) but you are a person who must have some deep seated psychological issues and you need professional help to deal with it all.

I wish you well, but I weep for your daughter. She is not, in your words "part of the family and always has been treated as such" - because she does not live with your family.

I have had a lot of help with the issues pertaining to my mother, but the upshot of it all is that we are no longer in any contact, as in the end her problems meant that I cannot, for my own mental health, be in touch with her. I am sure you would not like this to happen to you and your daughter.

RumourOfAHurricane Fri 07-Aug-09 10:05:11

Message withdrawn

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 10:06:46

yes with hard work,reflection,and introspection people can and do overcome the most awful psyhological trauma

weegie mum,what a great post.lot of tears and hard work to get you to a better place.and maintaining your mental health is definitley a priority

Most people have a certain preference over what they have but at the end of the day a baby is your flesh and blood whether it's a boy or girl.
You need to try and sort this out now while your dd is still young and possibly may forget about her early time with her nan.

Also your mum must have different ways of childrearing to you? Doesn't it bother you that your daughter is being raised differently to the way you would do it? Obviously I'd trust my mum or mil 100% with my kids but they do things differently to me eg discipline, diet even clothing so it's hard enough not to interfere in the way they look after them for a day let alone give them away.

What would you have done if your mum hadn't taken your dd in? Would you have kept her or had her adopted out?

Well done for trying to get some help x

ZZZenAgain Fri 07-Aug-09 10:07:30

I think you should go and make some phone calls and organise some professional counselling/therapy today rather than discuss it here. You owe it to your dd to give that a serious try and get on to it without delay.

People have preferences yes, but that is a gamble when we have dc. We do not know if our baby will turn out to be a pretty little girl with red curly hair, dimpled cheeks and whatever we personally want. We may likethe thought of a quiet sweet dc and get a wild rambustious run-around-all-day-screaming type.

We often don't know whether they will even be healthy or born with serious defects and major health issues. Be very very thankful you have 3 healthy dc and spare a thought for those mothers who do not - and still get on with it.

Thing is that having a baby is not about enriching your life in a way that adds to your pleasure. It often does happen and is nice when it does but for the most part it is about bearing the brunt of a huge reponsibility and fulfilling your duty to that dc to the best of your ability.

Good luck with it.

GeorgeTheSlitheen Fri 07-Aug-09 10:09:08

Poor child.

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 10:13:06

lou you have done the easy bit,off loading to strangers on MN

now go do something that really might make a differnce - see your GP and relate exactly what you have said here

ZZZenAgain Fri 07-Aug-09 10:14:42

If you go ahead with some therapy/counselling, we'll be with you the whole way Louise if that's what you'd like.

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 10:17:51

sorry but if you do proceed with counselling and or family therapy dont come on MN giving an account

i think it would undermine the therapeutic rapport to dissect it on MN with strangers.this is highly emotive stuff,not sure if any therapy best discussed on MN

your priority has to be getting help

ZZZenAgain Fri 07-Aug-09 10:19:42

she need not discuss what is going on in her therapy of course but I still think MNers would support her for doing it - if that was any help

EyeballsintheSky Fri 07-Aug-09 10:24:02

Just wanted to say I have to agree with every word custy says. I don't want to write any more because actually I'm quite angry about how you've handled it. But you need to sort this out now. She's your child, your responsibility. Enough now.

LouLou80 Fri 07-Aug-09 10:26:41

Therapy, counselling, whatever. i just need to do something about this. I know its not right and its not something i've ever been happy with, infact its caused me to be quite depressed and angry with myself many times. Often i just want it to carry on being me, my husband and my two boys and to just let it carry on as it is. other times i want to put it right. its just a very very hard situation but i know its not right, i have never thought it was right.

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 10:27:38

this is such emotive and deep stuff that the responses will understandably be divergent

my professional side can think of attachment,types of therapies and interventions

my personal side thinks for fuck sake get a grip.

ZZZenAgain Fri 07-Aug-09 10:28:34

I have to go out now. Louise, just be sure that you have given it 100% and made every reasonable effort to sort it.

I think you might still be able to "fix" it but you do not have a huge amount of time left in which to do this

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 10:29:02

lou expend the energy you put into relating this on MN to making some appointments and telling it to someone who can do something

ilovetrees Fri 07-Aug-09 10:34:28

LouLou I was quite disturbed by your last post. You seem very disconnected emotionally from what's going on. Please read Squilly's post again - your daughter will never understand why you have rejected her so completely. She may already be on the path of a life long feeling of worthlessness, hopelessness and depression. Please don't do this to an innocent little girl. Even if you don't understand what's going on, please get yourself some psychotherapy/family type therapy and get your daughter back in your family where she belongs. I think there are some deep psychological issues in you that need addressing - this is not to apportion blame because you can't help feeling the way you feel but you need to find out why if you are ever going to sort this for that poor little girl. Have you any idea of where your long held belief that girls are not as acceptable as boys has come from?

tiktok Fri 07-Aug-09 10:43:10

Lou, this is so sad and both you and your daughter deserve massive amounts of support and sympathy.

A professional therapist would be able to help you get to the bottom of this - it may well lie in your own relationship with your birth family and in turn, her relationship with her own family, going back generations. You have the opportunity to prevent it continuing through your own daughter, and it will take a while, it will be painful at times, but it is absolutely copper-bottomed 100 per cent a certainty that doing nothing will create lasting, deep and painful damage to your daughter and her siblings and very possibly their future children.

You can normally refer yourself to your local Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services though you might prefer to go through your GP. If you live in or near London you have the option of the excellent Tavistock www.tavi-port.org.

You are not a bad person. These feelings are deep and outside your control - but they do not need to be outside your control forever. There is an interesting emphasis in your post which a therapist might focus on - your concern with being a 'bad person' and the fact you 'feel bad'. You're seeking to minimise the effect it's having on your daughter - but you still know what's happening is 'bad' and turn that on yourself in a way therapy would explore. Once you start understanding your own needs and how they might not have been met you will be able to truly understand the needs of your little girl - not in a theoretical way, but in a way that compels you to respond.

You can call the Tavi on 020 8938 2241 and speak to the co-ordinator who deals with families with under-5s.

I think it's not too strong to say this is an emergency. If you don't do something soon, you will put it away for a while and the chances are you will bury it for who knows how long.

Seize the day.

3cutedarlings Fri 07-Aug-09 10:47:45

Oh dear your poor poor daughter

I agree with the other you need professional help here.

As for you comments of your DD getting in the way shock of your boys!! this is awful!! your boys will simply have to adjust to her being there!!! she is just as important as they are!. I personally think you need to spend as much time as possible with just you and DD could you maybe get away for a week or so? just you and her, for you to make a bond with her you need to spend time with JUST her.

How very very sad.

I have to say I agree with custardo on this.

It's good that you are adressing the situation, but seriously, she is your daughter adn she will grow up into a very messed up adult with serious rejection issues as a result of this, unless you try much much harder to live with her.

She has a right to live with her parents and brothers.

Sorry if I missed it and you already said, but how does your DH feel about the situation? Does he love her? Does he mind her not living with you all?

OnlyWantsOne Fri 07-Aug-09 10:53:04

oh my god.


seriously i am struggling what to say with out just swearing and shouting.

Firstly, you selfish idiot - I wanted to be supportive, but really? YOU HAVE GIVEN YOUR CHILD AWAY!

What is going to happen in the future? Does she call her Nan Mummy? Does she see you and her Dad as her parents?

You need help - your whole family need help..


What about her dad though?

I'm quite shocked that he has gone along with this arrangement tbh.

So basically, this little girl has been rejected by both her parents!!shock

Get professional help now, please.

Winston Fri 07-Aug-09 10:53:47

LouLou, I agree with everyone saying you need help, for you and your little girl.

What I will say though is, I was one of a twin (brother twin) and my mum had my older brother 3 years before. She never sent me away but she made it clear she didnt want a girl and I was constantly told how she would have had two more boys over me any day. She made it clear to everyone she found me hard to bond with and this continued in to adulthood. My mum was always close to my brothers. However, now they are older and have familes of their own they have moved away and (like alot of sons) spend more time with their wives families and very rarely spend time with our mum. Birthdays, Christmas presents etc are down to me as they dont bother. I think the saying about loosing sons to wives but keeping your daughters is very true and sadly for you it could be a case of when your children are all grown up you loose them all, especially when they all truly understand what you have done to them all.

Please try now, its not imposible to turn around, it effects their whole lives forever.

tiktok Fri 07-Aug-09 10:59:53

People : please don't be critical and unkind to Lou.

It doesn't help.

She needs therapy. Her feelings are not deliberate. Her mother (and from the sound of it, her dh) have colluded with her rather than insisted on getting help - probably for their own reasons. Lou has been put in a very weak, controlled position.

Now she has taken the first steps outside of this trap - she has shared what she feels on a public talkboard.

Don't slap her down with shocked criticism.

tiktok Fri 07-Aug-09 11:02:06

To repeat: Tavistock is on 020 8938 2241

EyeballsintheSky Fri 07-Aug-09 11:07:13

But tiktok, the op didn't come here for help. She came here to be told it's ok to pick and choose which of her children she wants. Read the last few lines of her op again. I'm sorry, it must be awful to be in a situation like this and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy but this situation is not ok and I don't get any sense that she wants to change it.

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 11:08:59

tiktok,understandably Lou post has shocked posters.it reads flat in affect and lacking an empathy

and tbh lou needs to step back,expend her energies into taking action.she wont get unconditional regard and support on MN,it isnt a therapeutic milleu. and on screen the post does read so badly.obviously there are reasons

but to anyone in throes of a psychiatric crisis i would say step back from the pc

this is a RL help situation

minxofmancunia Fri 07-Aug-09 11:18:43

agree with scottishmummy, the lack of true empathy and affect regarding this situation is quite shocking.

i work in camhs and see this type of thing (attachment/bonding issues) regularly but I feel this is quite a serious case and sometimes a more directive approach is neccessary.

i hope it shocks the op into taking action today about this issue, there's a strong feeling of minimalising the issue in her posts, whereas it's a massive issue!

op i know you're not meaning to make excuses but your posts do have that flavour. there also seems to be some ambivalence about the situation.

Agree with tiktok the Tavi would be best disposed to help you, improving access to psychological therapies is mainly cbt focussed and this situation needs something far far deeper and more challenging than this (speaking as a cbt therapist).

tiktok Fri 07-Aug-09 11:20:01

scottishmummy - I agree. Online support will get Lou nowhere...risk is she will get so much criticism (understandable) she will be reinforced in her belief that she is 'bad' (and maybe sees herself, or her mother, in her daughter, and in all females), and does not deserve help because of being bad.

Where does that leave her, and her daughter?

eyeballs - regardless of what Lou came here for, she and her daughter need help. Yes, the situation is utterly shocking; yes, Lou does not seem to 'get' how shocking it is, at least on the surface; yes, on the surface part of her is seeking validation for her 'choice'. But if she thinks others confirm she is a 'bad' person, why would she deserve to be happy in shared love with her little girl?

GothAnneGeddes Fri 07-Aug-09 11:22:10

From scottishmummy: "your posts read quite flat in affect and lacking in empathy."

Yes. You've nailed exactly what is so disturbing about the op. Failure to bond posts are usually typified by guilt and, for want of a better word, hand wringing.

This is lacking from this op, which means either she doesn't want the situation to change, just approval that what she is doing is right. Or, that there are deeper, much deeper, underlying problems.

tiktok Fri 07-Aug-09 11:23:05

minx - agree that CBT would not be appropriate. Some CAMHS have no under-5s provision at all, so I hope Lou lives near somewhere she can get the right help - even if she cannot get help from the Tavi, they will know where psychodynamic/attachment therapy can be found.

Newname17 Fri 07-Aug-09 11:27:58

This has hit a bit of a nerve for me because I have a twin brother and an older brother, and we grew up away from our parents. My twin brother and I have been best freinds for our entire lives. He has always been a friend I could turn to no matter what I'd done and no matter what other people were saying or thinking - that's what siblings do. It makes me really sad that you've stolen all of the family bonds from your dd - she may never be as close to her brothers as she might have been. Your ds1 is certainly old enough to remember this. I'm also shocked that you don't seem to realise how much resentment this might cause from all of your children later. Obviously you must realise if dd remembers this it wont be easy for her, but you have prevented your ds2 from bonding with his twin which he might resent. Every pair of twins I've ever met are closer to each other than non-twin siblings, even when they aren't identical or the same gender. I would always have chosen to live with my brothers than my parents if it had been an option.

I don't think this makes you a bad person, if you act now and really try to make a sustainable and loving relationsip with your daughter (it will come) then in my view that shows a lot. In the mean time, (while you're getting help, or coming to terms with it, or whatever) please consider letting your ds2 live with your mum too (if it's possible). I think that could make the transition back to 'normal' family life much easier, as:
- It would mean the twins were coming back together, so any changes that made in the family dynamics wouldn't be blaimed on your dd.
- Your dd wouldn't feel so singled out, and it wouldn't be such a massive change for her.
- You would have a chance to help ds1 get ready for the changes.
- It would give your daughter a connection into her family when she does come back so she would feel more at home.
- It would also give both of them a chance at patching up what should be the most important friendship of their life.
Good luck with this.

sorryaboutthenamechange Fri 07-Aug-09 11:28:51

shock what a selfish person, Poor child sad

tiktok Fri 07-Aug-09 11:30:41

I give up.

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 11:31:04

1st point of contact GP and get referrals to CAMHS,some cmht support
maybe a family support worker to work along side lou modelling good parenting
definitley family therapy

all these services are under resourced and stretched with huge caseloads.and yes some camhs wont take under 5

IAPT i was just wondering about a kick start and address the deeper embedded attachment and maternal preferences elsewhere

tavi take PG students,and they have less of a waiting list as part of the training you need certain amount of clinical time.the deal is you work with a student who is supervised and that may be quicker way onto waiting list.might be worth a punt

HerHonesty Fri 07-Aug-09 11:32:50

may i just ask lou, do you want to integrate her back into your family? do you want to love her? It sounds like you have given up somewhat, and want help dealing with the guilt?

if you dont want to love her, then perhaps it is better that she stays with your mother. i cant imagine anything worse than growing up feeling unloved. if this is the case then maybe you should consider asking your mother to adopt her permanently. the poor girl will grow up tremendously confused, unhappy and possibly emotionally damaged going between families and knowing she has a mother that doesnt love her.

that is not to say i approve or support you in anyway. I think you have real problems and need help. but i think we should think about the child first and foremost and you seem in no fit state to be a mother to her.

uberalice Fri 07-Aug-09 11:36:15

Lou, you are not selfish, or bad. But you do need some help with this. Please call the number in tiktok's post.

wannaBe Fri 07-Aug-09 11:47:16

I agree with everything that custardo has said.

And while I agree that op does need some professional help, I don't think that this thread should be free from judgement. It's precisely the lack of judgement and the acceptance of what op is feeling that has allowed this situation to develop in the first place and has enabled the op to quite openly reject one of her children with the support of her mother and husband.

It's simply not acceptable to decide you don't want one of your children and to drop them off at your mother's to bring her up. What would have happened if your mother had said no? Would you have put her into care? Put her up for adoption? Or would you have been forced to take responsibility and cared for her as you should have done in the first place.

Quite frankly it is your daughter who deserves the sympathy and compassion. Look at the threads on here from posters who have had traumatic upbringings at the hands of their mothers. Not one of them expresses compassion for the mothers - you're not any different because your child is still a little girl who is unable to speak up for herself.

I do think you should seek some counselling, for your daughter and the rest of your family who you will also have damaged through your abandonment of your innocent child.

And you should go to your mother's today and collect your poor daughter and bring her home to become a part of her rightful family.

motherbeyond Fri 07-Aug-09 11:55:02

i think this is so sad...for your daughter.i can't believe there's never been any outside help?
i think if you didn't ever want a girl and didn't think you would be happy being with a daughter, only "ok".. that you shouldn't have had ANY children at all.
children,whatever their sex,are a blessing. how can you reject her because of the sex she was born?
i also think it's a bit of a cop out saying it didn't work because she "missed her nan".Could it be that it wasn't just that she missed her primary care giver,but she understood that she was not wanted in your family,only tolerated?

i can tell you from experience,having been rejected by a parent,that unless you sort your shit out,not only will your daughter resnt you,but your boys will too.
you think they'll feel comfortable knowing that their mother didn't want their sibling?

i have anger that has haunted me all my life because of my situation,i suffer from a lack of confidence,insecurity and many other emotional problems..it's a fucking miracle that i found someone who has taught me how to be happy at last,and say to hell with them.there is still time for you to remedy this.stop being so self centred and think of the child that YOU CHOSE to bring into this world,and then abandon.

HumphreyCobbler Fri 07-Aug-09 12:12:23

I do think any more posters should read Tiktok's 10.59 post before commenting.

Weegle Fri 07-Aug-09 12:16:45

Ok this too has touched a nerve with me as well, like others, and I have deliberated all morning thinking about whether to post.

I was a second child (not twin) abandoned by my mother (and my father went along with it) to live with my Gran. I was abandoned at 6 weeks and rejoined the 'family' around 1, so I don't have any recollection of it. From then on I was definitely second best.

Massive amounts of damage was done. My knowledge that I was not wanted haunts me. I've really struggled with the fact that if my own mother couldn't love me then no one really could, and at some point everyone will leave. A lot of therapy and love from DH and friends has got me to a place where it doesn't rule my life, or my child's.

But it's not JUST the damage to your daughter that I think you are failing to recognise. What about the damage to your beloved boys (if that is the way to access your heartstrings)? When they are men, maybe with families of their own, do you think they are going to understand your actions? Do you think they will understand their father's actions? Do you think they will respect you and think what you did to their sister was acceptable? My sister supposedly had a good bond with my mother but as soon as she was old enough to question why I, her sister, was treated differently it made her angry - very angry. And in many ways she has been as damaged by the situation as I was, despite being the 'wanted' child. Perhaps more so as she struggles with guilt over what she had, versus what I didn't.

Your boys won't forgive you for this unless you do everything in your power to love their sister, and at the very least welcome her back in to the home and ACT that she is equal to them. Of course you now don't feel the same for your girl as your boys, because you simply don't know her - it is your responsibility as her mother, whether you like it or not, to change this now. To put her first now. To nurture her now. And in the future, when she is an adult, be willing to look her in the eye and admit how you failed her but how you did EVERYTHING (and I mean everything) to get back on track.

Frequently I encounter things I find hard as a result of my childhood. Not least at the moment the severe grief I have over losing my grandmother, the one who loved me as a mother should have done. A grief none of the other grandchildren share or can relate to. Please do something about this now, and don't rob an innocent child of the love they deserve. And please, if nothing else makes you think - but if you love your boys as you say you do, just think, for one minute - if what has happened to your girl had one of them in her place. Would that not break your heart?

HerHonesty Fri 07-Aug-09 12:20:34

i think a lot of us have read tiktok's posting but quite honestly OP does not appear to want to be helped and happy with care siuation... and horses cannot be taken to water.

so perhaps a health dose of what people really think is necessary to shock op into action

and also what is best for her daughter in this scenario?

roxy12 Fri 07-Aug-09 12:24:00

I really believe you need to get some help with this.
It really isnt fair on your daughter and she will feel it.

You need to bond with her.

This has brought tears to my eyes.

I can honestly say i dont no how you can do that and take her to her nannys.

But on the other hand you cant help the way you feel.

Good luck and i hope it will work out for u.

babycakes2 Fri 07-Aug-09 12:26:26

i dont think you deserve to be a mother at all. you cant pick and choose who to be a mother to. how very selfish. feel sorry for ALL your children. what happens if you decide you dont like one of your sons? will you give them away too?

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 12:26:33

people can and should post as they wish,and obviously most will be aghast.we cannot tell other poster for whom this is pertinent not to reply or state a contrary opinion.but lets face it this breaches most social norms and is pretty shocking.it has major implications for attachment and psycho-social development of her daughter

something tells me lou is too lost anyway to fully take on board any admonishment -and as lou herself says something isnt right here

but honestly someone in such turmoil and psychiatric crisis with skewed family dynamics doesnt need online help.she needs RL help

weegiemum Fri 07-Aug-09 12:30:13

I understand what tiktok is saying.....


I wish someone had taken my mother aside when I was 12, when she left (me, my sis, my bro and my Dad) to persue her own agenda) and told her the potential damage it woudl do.

I have serious issues with depression and other mental health issues I can't go into here, my sis has been on the verge of alcoholism (possibly tipped over) and is narcissistic, would do anything, an dI mean anything, to please out mother, my bro has suffered in many ways including her taking him in and then throwing him out again when he was 20.

I wish someone could have told my mum (who, in her own opionion, has a perfect life, has made no mistakes, has never apologised) what damage she could do.

She damages herself now, as well. I have 3 fabulous kids, and she never sees them, and has not asked to, since I cut contact. But she is missing out ont he Grandchildren that bring so much joy to the other Grandparents! her choice, of course!)

LouLou80 Fri 07-Aug-09 12:30:17

if i didn't want help and if i was happy with this situation why the hell would i bother to come on here and ask for peoples advice? i quite honestly knew i was going to get a hard time and i accept. But if i didn't care i wouldn't bother to make the post.

But anyway i agree with those who say that sitting here talking about it won't help. i will be taking action on this.

OnlyWantsOne Fri 07-Aug-09 12:31:15

loulou plese do some thing to make this right x

LouLou80 Fri 07-Aug-09 12:33:56

babycakes my eldest son is almost 10 years old and there hasn't been a day gone by i haven't wanted him, so it is unlikely i will abandon him now isn't it? and i adore my other boy.

franklymydear Fri 07-Aug-09 12:35:42

I found my daughters harder to bond with than my sons. But you just do it. I have never analysed why but I wonder if I see myself more in them.

Every day you act it until you get those moments where it feels natural and then you hold on to them tightly and try and make more of them.

You don't give up.

You need to get your daughter back. And you need to work at it.

Horton Fri 07-Aug-09 12:36:29

I'm really pleased that you are going to do something about the situation, LouLou. Have read the whole thread but didn't have anything helpful to add. Hope you can sort it all out and feel happier for yourself as well as your daughter - one thing that worries me is that if it is your own upbringing that's led to you feeling like this, maybe it is affecting your daughter too?

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 12:37:50

so take some action.stop faffing on MN Lou start with GP for referrals
the person who can initiate change is you

babycakes2 Fri 07-Aug-09 12:41:42

you are seriously messed up. you dont deserve your sons. how would you feel if they turn round in a few years time and tell you they dont love you? and quite honestly, if they find out about what you have done to their sister, i wouldnt be surprised if thats exactly what they do.

get a grip woman, get on with it and sort out your life. dont waste your time posting on here, find some help NOW. its not too late.
you have had plenty of pointers. in the time you have been responding to posts you could hhave made the first step towards resolving the situation.

most of think what you are doing is wrong, but all of us are mothers, know how hard motherhood is and believe me we will all be rooting for you and your dd to sort this out.

maggievirgo Fri 07-Aug-09 12:47:51

Everybody has praised custy's post, when imo all she did was judge you harshly. How is that helpful. (normally a fan of custy's posts).

I wouldn't say that I don't love my daughter, but, I lean over to kiss my son so instinctively. And then, to be equal, I kiss my daughter too. I tell my son I love him when I put him to bed, and the words just errupt out of my mouth naturally... Then when I go next door and read to my daughter I say the same to her, because that's what I shoud do. I know my duaghter well, she has no idea how I feel. I know what she loves, what makes her laugh, what she likes to wear, who her friends are, what she's thinking... I think that despite the imbalance of my love (and I do love her) I am a good mother to her...

I agree with the poster who says that if you go to counseling, don't talk about it on Mumsnet. People queueing up to judge you won't help you. YOU know it's not quite right. People being so sharp and blunt about that won't change anything.

Listen to the counsellors, and listen to the words you hear yourself saying to her.


LouLou80 Fri 07-Aug-09 12:49:21

they already know what i have done to their sister babycakes, they aren't stupid.and i have already said that i am going to make steps towards dealing with this.

I've only read the OP, but I was wondering what your husband thinks, feels and says about this? doesn't he want to have his daughter living with him?

I can't imagine how you are feeling, it seems like an 'impossible' thing to me(I mean I don't think I could ever not love a child I've given birth to), though after my own Dd was born, I went through a short stage of not being able to kiss my Ds and felt he was slightly less important to me. I gave myself a talking to and put it right ~ but that was me and it was not what you are obviously going through...

I hope you can resolve it, I really do. All children are precious, but our own children should mean the world to us ~ all of them.

Lizzylou Fri 07-Aug-09 12:53:34

Please do as Tiktok suggests, Lou.

She has made perfect sense, as she says "seize the day".

You can change this situation and how you feel, but you need help to do so.

Please everyone else stop being so harsh to Op. This is a desperate woman who has come on MN because she knows the situation is wrong, she knows she needs to change it.

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 12:54:44

Lou stop wasting time arguing the toss about your motives.you are unlikely to change anyone mind and most likely will get a pasting

you can not defend the indefensible Lou

but you can log off and prioritise this as an immediate to do.you logged on at 09.05.have you made any calls about this, what are you going to do

i do think if you continue to post but maintain this level of inertia then you are coming across as not prioritising this

MN does not need you
your daughter does

wannaBe Fri 07-Aug-09 12:55:48

louLou do they know it is because you don't love her? How have you explained to them why their sister doesn't live with you all as a family?

poopscoop Fri 07-Aug-09 12:56:11

The poor little girl. Sorry to say this but your DH is a very very very weak man. Allowing you to give up his daughter, whatever your feelings is very much hmm

babycakes2 Fri 07-Aug-09 12:56:55

how very awful that your sons may think what you are doing is normal. so now you are potentially damaging three kids.

so you have said you are going to do something - why arent you doing it NOW????

if only for the sake of your sons.

tiktok Fri 07-Aug-09 12:57:05

Lou - I am glad you have come back to the thread.

Tavistock is on 020 8938 2241.

Call them today.

Call your GP too, but I would worry you might not get an appt. for a week or so, and you might then decide to cancel or something might crop up.

The Tavi will know what's available in your area.

maggievirgo Fri 07-Aug-09 13:00:43

ofgs, she hasn't given her up. so many unhelpful posts here.

Lilyloo Fri 07-Aug-09 13:02:59

Lou i sincerely do hope that you get some help it is there for you if you really want to address this. I guess your daughter has been away from you for so long you have normalised it.
By the reactions on here you must see how much damage you are going to put all of your children through by not getting the help you need.
I agree about the dh , for a man to give up his child because he is a 'go with the flow' type of person is just astounding!

LouLou80 Fri 07-Aug-09 13:02:59

scottishmummy i'm not trying to defend anything but if you must know i resent babycakes suggestion that i don't deserve my sons. whatever the situation with my daughter the fact is i have always loved them and been a damn good mother to them and i have never prevented them from spending time with their sister either.i expected to be attacked but some of it is going too far, i'm not a monster.

yes i will be logging offline and making some phonecalls.

poopscoop Fri 07-Aug-09 13:06:22

get busy doing it then, instead of talking about it.

glastocat Fri 07-Aug-09 13:06:51

Your poor little girl. You really must seek help about this, what you are doing to her is not right. I pity yyou too, it must be awful to be you, but I pity your daughter too because she is blameless, and she will be damaged by this. PLease do the best you can by her, she deserves to be properly loved.

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 13:08:16

no lou you are in deep mental crises,take a deep breath and make those calls

this is emotive and will evoke a strong reaction.you need to maybe take note of suggestions and log off.dont get distracted by she said ..i said arguing.this is a no win situation.and it detracts from the important things to do

Newname17 Fri 07-Aug-09 13:10:00

LouLou, Please please please allow your twins some time together to develop their relationship while you sort things out. If you can't bring your dd back to her family yet, then I look in to sending ds2 to stay with his gran. Their bond should, and still could, be something really special if you let it.

tiktok Fri 07-Aug-09 13:11:18

Totally - scottishmummy is right.

Lou, forget about what people have said about you here. They don't know you. You are allowing them to distract you from getting some proper real life help now. This minute.

maggievirgo Fri 07-Aug-09 13:11:29

LouLou80, ignore the rubberneckers. Slowing down to roll down their window and shout a few insults, without giving you any comfort of words of wisdom.

HOpe you're ok. Maybe better to keep this for the counsellor and not to bring it up on Mumsnet. Reading loads of criticism won't help in any way.

wannaBe Fri 07-Aug-09 13:12:15

hasn't given her up? What exactly do you call dropping a six month old baby at her grandmother's for four years while you play happy families with her twin siblings.

Tbh I think the fact she is a twin makes it much, much worse.

"i expected to be attacked but some of it is going too far, i'm not a monster." that's a matter of opinion though, surely. You have done the unforgiveable in the eyes of many - you have abandoned your child because of her gender, and you seem to be suggesting that the love you feel for her brothers somehow balances that - well it doesn't.

I assume these children start school in September? Do they have different addresses and different names of guardians? Or have you put them into separate schools to ensure the authorities don't become involved?

tiktok Fri 07-Aug-09 13:13:01

Oh, FFS, wannabe....Jeezus.

poopscoop Fri 07-Aug-09 13:13:37

Maggie - This may be the first time Lou has had a wake up call and it may well have been positive.

Her mother just took the daughter, her DH just accepted the situation like the prat he is. Nobyd has addressed the problem, until today by the sounds of it.

maggievirgo Fri 07-Aug-09 13:19:25

Well, poopscoop, as somebody who understands firsthand experiencing an 'imbalance' in the amount of love for her children, I can tell you that posts with no purpose other than to condemn her as a monster won't help at all.

You feel what you feel, but it won't help the op, so if demonising her makes you feel better, go ahead, it won't help the little girl.

And deprssing the OP and making her feel like a monster, for something she already acknowledges needs addressing and fixing, it could slow her down.

To make huge changes, a person needs to feel strong and ready for change, positive, optimistic, good about themself really.

Talking to a counsellor to get to the origins of this lack of love is the only thing that's going to help right now.

wannaBe Fri 07-Aug-09 13:20:26

"Earlier this year my mum sat down with me and said that as much
as she loved having her live with her she felt that it was time for me to try and bond with her more and suggested that it was time to have her live with
me again, i agreed to this so she came to live with me in April." Actually, it seems the mother did try and force the issue by sitting the op down and suggesting she have daughter back home to live. So this thread isn't the first time the issue has been raised...

Trikken Fri 07-Aug-09 13:21:46

I feel very sad reading this post, I hope you can find a way to reconnect with your daughter and bring her home. Having your own mum is very important to any child, she probably misses you a lot Lou. Nan may be lovely but it will never be the same as Mummy.

in future you will hopefully come to see all the wonderful things about your daughter and enjoy her as much as the boys.

Wishing you well and hope you can resolve this situation and find happiness for your family.

Definitely family therapy is needed for the whole lot of them IMO. Hopefully it can be fixed but this is not a problem that is going to go away.

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 13:26:51

on screen and in print psychiatric issues always read worse.because we are detached from Lou,cant see a nuance,cant determine authenticity,cant get an intutive feel for the situation she describes

i understand the deep emotions this evokes.it has high ouch factor.

but Lou can only sort this out in RL and a MN pasting wont knock any sense into her,or get her to wise up or any other such thing

and i do think there have been some v helpful posts,in particular from those who have experienced emotionally absent mothers

poopscoop Fri 07-Aug-09 13:29:16

maggie - I have not called her a monster????

I am frustrated at her situation. Nobody close to her seems to be doing much to sort out the mess and 3 years have passed.

Yes, her mother spoke to her earlier this year, but soon enough took the daughter back again. The DH, well he beggars belief. This poor child will grow up feeling confused and rejected. Her mother adores her brothers, but not her? Her father allowed her to be sent away? So she will feel that he too has rejected her?

Of course, I understand that some children are more difficult to bond with, it happens alot. But Lou does need a wake up call from whoever, that she is potentially damaging this child for life.

sandcastles Fri 07-Aug-09 13:35:11

"I think she knows that i treat her differently to her brothers, kids aren't stupid and i do worry what effect its going to have on her as she gets older knowing that her mum didn't want her"

You HAVE to sort this out NOW! Make custy's post your mantra!

My mum never wanted me, not because I was a girl, but because she didn't want 3 childen. She didn't send me away. But she didn't try very hard either. She actually told me at 15 that she never wanted me. NEVER ever say that, PLEASE! You may have to tell her in year to come, but please be careful.

It has devestated so many areas of my life. I am almost 36. It took the birth & blossoming of my beautiful girl (now 6) to make me realised that I was & could be loved. I have been with dh since I was 16 & know (and always have known) he loves me, but NOTHING started to mend the damage done by my mum until dd.

That's almost 30 years of pain!
And it still hurts!
And we no longer talk.

wannaBe Fri 07-Aug-09 13:35:50

sm perhaps it's not helpful but equally op does seem to have been affected by the criticisms directed at her on here, and perhaps that is not such a bad thing, considering she has only ever had support for her actions in the past?

Tbh am not sure what op hoped to achieve by posting here? She says she knows that what she feels isn't right, was she looking for people to say "it's ok, you haven't done anything wrong"? or perhaps she is looking for the condemnation so she can actively do something about it.

While her actions are being condoned by those who are colluding in her abandonment of this child she has no reason to believe that what she has done is wrong and unacceptable. iyswim?

LouLou80 Fri 07-Aug-09 13:35:54

'you seem to be suggesting that the love you feel for her brothers somehow balances that - well it doesn't.' erm nope don't think i said that at all. what i actually said was that i resented being told i didn't deserve my sons.

btw everyone 5 minutes ago i made an appointment to see my GP. i will discuss all this fully with him. my appointments on monday afternoon

I haven't read through all the posts so I apologise if I reapeat things that have already been said & I apologise too if I go off on a tangent.

I have, at best, a very strained relationship with my mother. I too lived my Nana for a while & our relationship remains a strong & loving one. My relationship with my mother is far from that. I was an unplanned baby when she was 19, she's been married 3 times & has 6 other children now. I have spent most of my life feeling unwanted & rejected by the person I have wanted to love me most. Even after all this time, all this rejection, all this hurt I still long for my mother to be some kind of mum to me. I would give anything to hear say 'I love you' or 'I'm proud of you'. I know that she will never change, our realtionship will never change yet still I build up my hopes for them to be dashed, that is something that very slowly I am learning to except but also I know our relationship won't survive much longer & very soon I have no doubt it will come to end & for good.

3 years ago I had my DD, she was very much planned & very much wanted yet when she was born I felt I didn't want her. I felt completely overwhelmed by having a DD & wanted to run away as fast as I could. I did everything that I was supposed to for her, bathed her, fed her etc etc but I never really held her, something I'll never be able to change. DH was (is) besotted with DD & they have an amazing relationship & so I was happy to step back & let him be everything to her. (I was also diagnosed with PND when DD was 4 weeks which as you can imagine didn't help matters)

When my DS was born a year ago I felt instant love for him, I bonded with him immediately & felt so, SO different with him. I really felt like a mum. It was then tha realised that if I wasn't careful I was going to end up like my own mother & have an awful relationship with DD & that one day I might loose her.

It took me a long time to pluck up the courage but eventually I took myself along to my GP as I wanted things to change, I didn't want my DD to feel the way about me that I feel about my own mother.

I'm currently going through counselling & CBT to try & change things for the better. I'm trying to hard to break the cycle & I'm learning alot through counselling about why I cat & feel the way I do but slowly it's changing & DD are getting closer & learing more about each other. I'm positive that in time our relationship will be how it should be & I would have broken the cycle.

What I'm trying to say is I can empathise with your situation. I can also empatise with feeling different towards your DSs & your DD. However I'm not sure that having DD living elsewhere is going to help, you need to work through your issues & I think living seperately is going to make that very hard. How does your DH feel about your DD living with his MIL? I know you say that DD misses her Nan but surely she must miss her Dad & brothers & her Mummy too?

Have you spoken with anyone like a GP or HV about how you feel?

I don't think you're a monster, I think you're a Mummy/Woman going through a lot.

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 13:37:51

nobody close to Lou can resolve this,as it is toxic family dynamics.for whatever reason they are complicit and collude too in this situation

expect no immediate family intervenes as they too are embroiled in this

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 13:45:56

lou,maybe best not get embroiled in i said...she said

you wont change minds,conserve your energies for seeing gp

ask about family therapy

poopscoop Fri 07-Aug-09 13:55:33

good to hear about the appointment.

tiktok Fri 07-Aug-09 13:57:21

Great you have got an appt pretty soon, Lou.

LouMacca Fri 07-Aug-09 14:17:56

This is a heartbreaking post which has brought tears to my eyes. As am mum of 6 year old boy/girl twins I cannot imagine feeling this way.

My DS was born first and I instantly bonded with him and felt the rush of love. My DD was born a few minutes later and was handed to my husband. I always felt that this was the reason why I didn't feel that same bond.

It was a few weeks before I did. My DH was totally shocked and upset when I told him I had finally bonded with our DD six weeks later, he had assumed it had happened within a day or so. I feel so ashamed that I felt that way now and I have never told anyone other than my DH about my feelings.

Luckily for me and my family that is history now. I wish you well Lou - good luck with your appointment.

Great news about the appointment...don't leave anything out, tell them exactly how it is ~ good luck.

Tortington Fri 07-Aug-09 14:33:19

fantastic that you have an appointment, bloody fantastic.

hellymelly Fri 07-Aug-09 14:40:17

I am so shock ! Your poor little girl,waht will your boys make of this when they get older? The sentance that got to me the the most was you saying that it SOMETIMES bothers you that you don't love her! I think that boding with a baby and indeed all forms of family love are as much about action as emotion.if you routinely act in a loving way towards someone then the emotional side will catch up but by abandoning her and separating her from her twin you haven't given her a chance.I can see that having twins may make it hard to bond with one-many parents of two find no.one suddenly less favoured when you have a new baby to look after,but I think your common sense and responsiblity should have and should still win out .think of twenty years down the line and whether your tiny dd will ever feel loved or lovable.Get her home and get help.

hellymelly Fri 07-Aug-09 14:41:23

sorry for all the typos, I am half dead with sleep deprivation.

mumtoem Fri 07-Aug-09 14:46:09

Lou, I have come to this late but have read the entire thread. Well done for making the appointment. I hope your GP refers you urgently and you get the support you need.
It is sad that your DH and Mum have taken the easy way out by letting you do what you want. I hope you can encourage them to be tougher and support you in learning to love your DD.
As several others have said, I do think you need to consider the effect your actions may have on your DSs. Also, when they become teenagers, how will you react to their girlfriends?
Could both your Mum and DD move in with you for a while? This would mean your DD will not miss her Nan while she gets used to a new environment.
You have taken a hard first step to putting things right. I hope for the sakes of all your family that you can see this through and do what you know to be right.

ClaireDeLoon Fri 07-Aug-09 14:51:21

My dad had an experience as a child that is a little like this. His mother had died whilst he was a toddler and one day he heard his father making arrangements to have him put in an RAF orphanage, just him, not his older brother. In the end that did not happen and he instead went to live with his grandmother. Just him, not his older brother. My dad is in his 70's now, very stiff upper lip, certainly not the emotional type at all. Yet he has sat in front of me and cried about this.

I really hope you can take the advice given as to where to go to get help and you and your family can work through this.

poopscoop Fri 07-Aug-09 14:58:42

Claire sad

Lou, I think you have been very brave coming on here and posting so frankly. Yes what you did was wrong but it is likely due to an underlying phsycological issue which I am happy to see you are taking steps to rectify.

I probably would have found this very odd and shocking had I not watched the documentary some PPs have mentioned which has given me some understanding of this problem. I wonder about the relationship you have with your mother. You clearly have some sort of relationship, but from some of your offhand comments I wonder if this is where your issues with your daughter come from. You are one of 4 kids, the only girl; the girl you say your mother longed for and wished there were more of. Did you feel growing up that you received special treatment from being the only girl? Maybe felt smothered by your mother in a way that the boys weren't? Perhaps you struggled to forge your own identity because your mother 'girlyfied' you because you were her only girl and she wanted all the pink and frills that sterotypically are associated with little girls?
Is this perhaps why you desperately didnt want a girl...a fear of repeating the same thing?

Whatever the reason you do need someone who really knows their stuff to go over these issues with you. You probably dont even know you have them if they're deeply buried, but you have serious issues and sadly you and your daughter are both suffering.

You need the support of your mother and your husband to sort this out, but they must support you 100%. Your mum cant say she supports you then when you have a few wobbles say "never mind, you tried, I'll take her back". You all need to be in this together as one big family, otherwise you wont be a family anymore.

Good luck and keep us posted--I really hope things get better for ALL of you.

Nancy66 Fri 07-Aug-09 16:08:51

It's very brave that you came on here to post Lou. Most of us can't ever imagine feeling the way you do about our own child.

You know your family arrangement is unacceptable and can't continue along these lines and you're smart enough to have done something about it - well done.

I hope you have a good and understanding GP and it's the first step towards your family being together. Good luck.

giraffesCanRunA10k Fri 07-Aug-09 17:23:36

You need to watch that channel 4 documentary - she loves one twin but not the other, she learns to love both. She had a form of PND. I suspect you have the same, and like any mental illness you need help.

giraffesCanRunA10k Fri 07-Aug-09 17:25:48
babyignoramus Fri 07-Aug-09 17:57:02

FWIW, where I work I come into contact with social services (childcare legal cases). Often a child's situation will be decided by assessing whether the family problems can be fixed within a timescale that's acceptable to the child.

EG. a mother on drugs is assessed as needing a year of treatment and therapy to clean up. A baby might be given back to her eventually as she can be given help in the meantime and the baby will not remember. An older child might be better off placed elsewhere as another year of a bad situation may make their trauma that much worse.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, do you want to fix this? If you don't really want your daughter back home it may be better for her if she stays with her Nan. I think the damage is probably already done to a certain extent and either way she is going to feel rejection. Which option is going to be less damaging in the long run? Staying with her Nan, knowing you don't want her but at least being brought up by someone who does? Or back in your family unit, where she belongs, but forever second best?

babyignoramus Fri 07-Aug-09 17:59:09

Sorry, didn't see that you have an appointment - good for you and I hope it goes well.

EyeballsintheSky Fri 07-Aug-09 18:08:09

I think this is what I have the real issue with, and I have no experience with this so may be talking out of my backside... It seems worse to me that she is growing up, looking in on the family she is part of, but from the outside. DH's first comment when I talked to him about this was, would it be right for your daughter to be brought back into your family when you don't really want her there? And I sort of agree with him. I almost think that she would have been better off adopted from the start, completely away from this situation. Either way now, it's very hard on her because althought you might think she wont remember it, she'll know. A friend of mine, much older than me, was sent to live with aunts when she was a child. She always felt that her parents hated her and that was why they sent her away. Turns out her father wasn't her father at all and he did resent her. She was 61 when this all came to light. I know your situation is different but she will know about this.

Oh and maggievirgo, what would you call it then?

I'm glad you've taken the first step and I hope you get the help you need, both you and your daughter. You're not a bad person but you do need help. Good luck.

LouLou, I am really glad to read that you have made an appointment with your GP and are seeking proffessional help, it's a big and important step.

I really do feel very sorry for your dd, because she must feel so very rejected.

I can , however, kind of understand your feelings....although, slightly different, I rejected ds 3 for a good while after he was born, not for being a boy, but I was quite traumatised by his Birth and suffered some depression after his Birth, but giving him away would have never been an option, and I feel angry that, in effect, your dh and mum have enabled you to go down the line of abondening your child. Both should have stood up against this and make you sort it out before now, tbh. It is possible to overcome these feelings, luckily for me it all worked itself out with my ys and myself, and he is a right mummy's boy now and very muhc loved by me, aswell as the rest of the family.

Anyway, I am hoping that you will be able to overcome your feelings and that it is not to late and that you will be able to make it up to your dd!

maggievirgo Fri 07-Aug-09 20:06:33

LouLou, well done for making the appointment. It can't be an easy subject to raise with the gp.

I know the situation is less than Ideal, but take a deep breath and remember that your little girl is with her grandma who really does love her.

I think that is the best place for her UNTIL you can work out why you feel the way you do. There would be no point to taking her back to your home and risking more severe damage to her confidence before you have figured out how to love her mroe successfully.

Good luck. I hope the GP is kind, supportive and puts you in touch with the right people.

Ripeberry Fri 07-Aug-09 20:10:57

Very sad situation, maybe you only felt comfortable dealing with boys. But you do need to try and bond with her as this will get worse when she becomes a teenager and will feel that she will need to blame you for everything...like teenagers do sad

OrmIrian Fri 07-Aug-09 20:14:22

What custy said. I struggled with my DD especially when my DS was 3yrs later. I still feel guilt about this period when DD wasn't loved as she deserved by her mother. But I got over it and I made sure she was shown plenty of love and care - even if i had to fake the love. And now I am so proud of her. So proud.

Make an effort. Persevere and don't let your mother take over.

HeinzSight Fri 07-Aug-09 20:30:37

Well done for making an appointment for Monday, that's the first positive step. You are making progress already.

I hope in time you resolve the problems you have bonding with your daughter. Little girls are just the best thing ever. I have two boys too who I adore, but also adore my DD.

Keep telling yourself you can do this.

toothfairy999 Fri 07-Aug-09 20:30:57

There is little point saying anything like 'think how lucky you are to have a healthy baby girl' or 'imagine how you would feel if your mother rejected you' because clearly that won't help.

You were very brave and candid to make your initial post and I hope you feel in someway relieved for having verbalised it.

However, I do think you should recognise you need some kind of help with this. It will haunt you one day and you need some help now.

A therapist will help you explore this, and hopefully find a way through it. Is there something in your life, your past, your childhood that makes you resent girls. Is there something in your upbringing that makes you feel girls are less loveable or unworthy. Is there something deep rooted that makes you envious or resentful of loving a baby girl and not a boy.

Don't answer these questions here, but go and find the answers. You are clearly a terrific mum, and someone who is capable of love, but you do need some advice and there will be someone out there who can help you.

You have been brave in admitting your feelings, but you need to be brave and go and do something about it. We only get one life.

MaggieBeauVirgo Fri 07-Aug-09 20:46:04

I agree with tooth fairy. It is such a taboo (as the posts on this thread reinforce) that it is brave to hold your hand up to this.

Knakard Fri 07-Aug-09 21:08:22

No experience with this, but want to say the op is clearly very mixed up and seems to be slightly detached, i think posting here was obviously her first step in confronting the situation and to actually say those words out loud and is really a positive step to acnowledging its not right or normal.

i wonder if a lot of this is deep rooted in her relationship with her mother, comments about the nan missing the dd and also about desperatly wanting another daughter, there seems to be an undercurrent of wanting to please your mum.

I really hope you get the help you need and do seem to want, the detachment of post all seem very indicative of PND.

AzureBlueSky Fri 07-Aug-09 21:09:15

If you don't want your daughter and you can't get past this with professional help then you should have her adopted.

Better to be with a family that can give her the devoted attention she deserves, rather than years spent on the periphery of your life wondering what the hell she did that was so wrong. Seriously.

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 21:41:15

toothfairy,one cannot say lou "You are clearly a terrific mum".we dont know her.

we have lou subjective account of a tragic set of events

it is wrong to erroneously assume lou is horrid
it is wrong to erroneously assume lou is clearly a terrific mum.

it is important to remain objective when posting about stuff like this,and not project your hopes/interpretation onto lou

one hopes lou gets appropriate therapy, engages in family therapy.and that things do work out

only she will know that

Pitchounette Fri 07-Aug-09 21:55:34

Message withdrawn

saggyhairyarse Fri 07-Aug-09 22:20:32

I don't think the situation is fair on anyone, the family you hav emade with your DH and your sons, your mother or your daughter. Seriously, have you thought about your daughter being adopted?

When your DD went to live with your mother, what did your HV and GP say or do about this? Have Social Services been involved?

Have you pushed for intervention?

LouLou80 Fri 07-Aug-09 22:27:55

i don't wish for social services to get involved, they can do more harm than good with their interfering, overbearing ways.

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 22:41:32

lou, SW get a unjustified bad press.overall they are reasonable professional people.don't start filling in what if's.get some referral and let staff work with you

it will be bloody hard
you wont necessarily like it
they will ask uncomfortable questions
this is a mess- no easy answer

AitchTwoOh Fri 07-Aug-09 22:49:11

have you had social work involvement before? any sws i know are desperate to help people, kind, professional and caring. don't make them out to be bogeymen, it's a red herring in this.

such a brave post, though, i agree with the women who've told you to watch Help Me Love My Baby. this is so far outwith the normal maternal experience, please don't take this criticism to heart (except insofar as it motivates you to change this). there were so many complex reasons behind the women on the show not loving their children, most a complete surprise to the mothers themselves.

personally, i'm interested in your mother's desire for a daughter (other than you?) and your having provided one for her, certainly. there will be forces shaping this situation far beyond you yet know. good luck in seeking a resolution and learning to love your daughter. smile

tatt Fri 07-Aug-09 23:03:55

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

AitchTwoOh Fri 07-Aug-09 23:10:09

SO WHAT? i am so tired of the mn paranoia about journalists. who cares? this woman is either a journalist, a troll or... drumroll... someone in terrible trouble. why bother to undermine her if so?

hellymelly Fri 07-Aug-09 23:11:13

Um-"they can do more harm than good" So what have you done to your daughter so far? I have gone away and mulled over this and I honestly think you have done a truly terrible thing that even if you get help now will still haunt your daughter's life and be reverberating through your family for generations.WHAT on earth where you thinking? Why did you not get help when she was tiny? Why did you have children at all if you didn't want a gender that you had a 50% chance of getting? You are clearly NOT a good mother to your sons because you have broken their relationship with their only sister and favoured them above her, and one of them is her TWIN for God's sake. Sibling relations are still there when parents die but you have destroyed this for your sons and your actions will affect their relationships too.I can't imagine they will grow up very secure knowing that you gave a sibling away.I think you are cold and borderline sociopathic and I am stunned that your husband has allowed this to happen .I also think you don't deserve your sons.I think you should never have had children and that you are a toxic parent.

drlove8 Fri 07-Aug-09 23:13:06

op is either a troll or a complete bitch...im thinking please be a troll.... no child deserves to be farmed out and watch her siblings being brought up by mum and dad..... its sick.

trefusis Fri 07-Aug-09 23:17:02

Message withdrawn

tatt Fri 07-Aug-09 23:18:52

AitchTwoOh - I don't give a hoot if journos want to look for their copy here but I'm not going to waste my time feeding them. So now I shall ignore the thread.

trefusis Fri 07-Aug-09 23:20:12

Message withdrawn

lilacpink Fri 07-Aug-09 23:32:08

You love your DSs, yet they must think it's odd that a son is more important than a daughter? Won't they struggle with their own relationships if they think men are better than women? They've had this reinforced by all of your family accepting this and not making you get help when you weren't mentally able to get help yourself. Good luck in getting help now as you're stronger and you can clearly see it's needed. I hope you're encouraged to try activities with your DD that involve physical contact, to fully bond.

Sorry if someone else has said this point, it's a long thread

mammalovesit Fri 07-Aug-09 23:39:01

Evening all....I was that farmed out/abandoned daughter 34 yrs ago, raised by fantastic granparents until I chose to leave at 16. It has caused HUGE issues between me and my mother (who I call by her first name) I still have no answers to why it happened, it is a closed book as far as my mother is concerned. Yet ironically she has all the time in the world for my children. I have 2 DS's and a miracle of a DD! Custardo post made me cry, as i also want to walk side by side with my DS thru all lifes stuff. I want to fix the wrongs done to me, I want to go shooping with her, have a coffee in a coffee shop, shed tears as she tries on her wedding dress. i also adore my DS's, they will be fine men who will look to me for guidance also....I hope Lou gets help. Before her DD gets to 34 still harbouring resentment and no love for the woman who sadly gave birth to her.

LouLou80 Fri 07-Aug-09 23:40:28

I don't see what my situation has to do with incest.

trefusis Fri 07-Aug-09 23:43:59

Message withdrawn

AitchTwoOh Fri 07-Aug-09 23:45:51

tatt, i'd question why you didn't just ignore the thread in the first place.

lou, have you watched the programme yet?

scottishmummy Fri 07-Aug-09 23:47:27

look lou,you post this thread that title.expect some indignation

maybe stop coming back to it.focus your energies on the important stuff

this is froth.it isn't really important
a wee girl and her mum is
go sort your priorities.

OurLadyOfPerpetualSupper Sat 08-Aug-09 17:06:47

I suspect, in response to Saggy's comment, this was all done on the quiet - HVs or SW were never informed, especially considering Lou's comments about SS and their 'overbearing ways.'

I could be wrong, but I can't imagine this taking place with a cheery wave from the HV and nothing more than a note of change of address.

So, Lou, how did this happen? How have you explained it to the powers that be? Because if this sort of thing can happen under the noses of HCPs, presumably without any attempt at intervention, it doesn't say a lot about officialdom's care for the helpless young in our society.

And if you've effected this situation without informing the powers that be, then you and your family knew it was wrong all along, which is probably what's driven you to post here.

Greensleeves Sat 08-Aug-09 17:17:41

I'm afraid I think your mother is the villain in all this

a decent person would have refused to take your daughter away from you and would have concentrated her energies on trying to help you overcome your initial bonding difficulties and promote a healthy relationship.

She wanted another girl and you wanted boys? How neat and convenient: "I've got two, you have the pink one and I'll keep the blue one" hmm

that little girl has a right to grow up with her brothers. When she's older, when you and your mother aren't around, those sibling relationships will really count.

And I think you are sidestepping the unbelievable damage you are doing to her long-term mental health and chance of a healthy happy adult life - you simply are NOT engaging with the brutal facts of this situation. What is happening is TERRIBLE. Really, really terrible. Wake up!! angry

FlappyTheBat Sat 08-Aug-09 17:19:52

I haven't read all the thread, just the op.

But going on what I have read, surely if you don't love your daughter and haven't been a parent to her for the last 3 years, would she not be better being adopted by a family who might actually show her some love?

How do you think she feels, knowing that her own mother doesn't love her or want her in the same house as her siblings?

She must feel so confused and unwanted.

Apologies if the thread has moved on, as am only responding to what I read in the op, but couldn't really believe what I was reading!

electra Sat 08-Aug-09 17:39:00

I think you are brave to admit the problem to yourself and to post it on here. Please do something about it though! My father didn't want me. He always treated me as an inconvenience - he still does and my mother has admitted to me that he actually didn't want children but she did. As an adult I have a very unstable self-image and other mental health problems which I am sure have been contributed to by my non-existent relationship with him.

Greensleeves makes an excellent point that your dd has the right to a good relationship with her brothers. If you don't cherish your dd her brothers won't either...

Greensleeves Sat 08-Aug-09 17:44:26

I wasn't wanted, my mother had a termination just before I was born. Once I was a reality though I was the Elastoplast baby - meant to save their failing relationship. I didn't work.hmm Which somewhat set the tone for a shit childhood. I have long-term problems with depression and anxiety, have had a full-scale physical and mental breakdown and I have no contact whatsoever with my mother now.

You must, must MUST wake up and see how horrific this is. All three of the children are being damaged. You have no right to do this to any of them.

Greensleeves Sat 08-Aug-09 17:44:49

she ahd a termination just before I was conceived, not born hmm

lizziemun Sat 08-Aug-09 19:26:17

Good for you asking for help now, I hope you get help for your ishoos.

I suspect your gp will inform ss about this anyway as a lot of individual and family counsilling (sp) will be needed.

And your dd is going need a lot of help with what and why you did what you did. But more so why didn't her dad stand up for her and let this happen.

I hope it not to late for dd although she only a baby still.

I have 2 freinds who where abandon by their mothers (1 bought up by grandparents and 1 by father) one from a baby and one when she was 3, both have been in very abusive relationships trying to find 'love' but not knowing what that means . One is now married (to very nice man) with her own child but she is very high maintenance as a freind and needs constant reasurance. The other is in a womens refuge having finally leaving her 2nd abusive husband.

OP has absolutely no idea what she is storing up for the future with this situation. It makes me feel very, very angry but I realise like others have said that I do not personally know the OP so it would be unfair of me to really relay my thoughts on this from my own personal experience.

OP, I am glad you are getting help. Yes, it is brave that you came on here and have spoken about this, please follow it through. No excuses, this is your chance to fix this, just do it.

Perhaps one thing to think about is your future relationships with your sons that you adore....if that is so important to you, then do yourself the favour and sort this out once and for all, at the very, very least - think about them resenting you in future for rejecting their sister - maybe you don't love her, but they will.

Custardo - fab post.

Merrylegs Sat 08-Aug-09 20:20:16

I have scanned through this whole thread and nowhere can I see what has happened to this child's dad.

Have I missed something? The OP wanted boys so when she had a daughter she rejected her?

What about the child's father?

Did he just say, "Yep, fair enough love, you're right. Let my daughter go and live with the mother in law?"

Merrylegs Sat 08-Aug-09 20:35:21

"i don't wish for social services to get involved, they can do more harm than good with their interfering, overbearing ways."

Have you had a bad experience in the past, OP?

Social Workers are most often desperate to keep families together - taking kids into care costs too much.

AitchTwoOh Sat 08-Aug-09 20:35:52

pretty much, merrylegs. the whole family sounds really screwed-up. i'm with greeny, i think the mother is really sus here.

Fillyjonk Sat 08-Aug-09 20:41:23

eh? is this for real?

if so, I think yes SS needs to be involved. What on earth can they do that is worse than sending one of your kids away?

but seriously...really?

There is "struggling to bond", which can of course be a symptom of pnd, etc.

This is not struggling to bond. This is much much more serious. This child has been sent away, fgs (possibly)

cocolepew Sat 08-Aug-09 20:53:15

I was told a ,true, story the other week. A perfectly well functioning, 'normal' family were under SS for problems with their daughter. The 'problem' was they didn't like her. She was a wellbehaved, polite, well liked by everyone (but parents) child. They family walked out leaving her, sobbing, with the SW because they "loved their son, she's gets in the way, we don't want her". The girl was 10 and they just abandoned her. Don't let be you in 7 years time.

Jujubean77 Sat 08-Aug-09 21:05:29

This happens much more than people realise. I know of two people who were rejected by their parents and sent away and the outcome for them has been, well let's say tragic is an understatement.

I think things have been left far too late to be honest. Reading OP posts she has no insight as to why she feels like this and it is apparent that she is a long, long way and many years of therapy from opening her heart and home to this little girl.

I don't think the Mother is the villain personally, quite the reverse, what on earth would have happened to the poor girl without a loving Grandmother who is actually trying to get the OP to open her eyes. The Father seems like the classic bystander but there is so much we don't know. I hope it works out but the odds are so very slim.

Merrylegs Sat 08-Aug-09 21:05:48

OK, have just seen the post where OP's Dh 'went with the flow.'


This sorry situation needs some serious overbearing interference PDQ.

DamonBradleylovesPippi Sat 08-Aug-09 21:17:05

Reading this made me so sad. Hope the OP gets help and tries to turn things around asap.
But I am also a bit shocked and suspicious about the dad non-involvment in this (which I really do not get - he must not love the daughter that much either and so needs help/he is guilty too).

I will watch that documentary as well.

MollieO Sat 08-Aug-09 21:20:22

Good to see that you have made an appointment to see the GP on Monday. Good luck with that. You need to be completely open and honest with the GP in order to get the appropriate referral.

When I was pg I wanted a girl as I thought for practical reasons it would be easier (wasn't sure that dp would be keen on fatherhood and I figured raising a girl as a single mum would be easier). When I found out I was expecting a boy I had what can best be described as two weeks of mourning. I really didn't know how I would handle raising a boy if his father was possibly struggling with being a father.

Ds was born early and poorly and very nearly died. Dp saw him once, couldn't deal with it and became ex-p. Ds is 5 now and is a real boy despite having no male role model in his life. Despite thinking that I could only raise a girl I can't imagine life now if ds had been a dd.

I am sorry for you that your childhood relationships no doubt led you to your abandonment of your dd. I am even more sorry that your dh has been unsupportive. Whilst you don't write that it is spoken in everything you post. I can't imagine a man that loves his dcs sitting back and accepting the fact that one doesn't live with them and doing nothing to help that to be changed.

I hope that you get the help you need to integrate your dd back into your family or if not then to put her up for adoption to a family that will love her as unconditionally as she deserves.

oneplusone Sat 08-Aug-09 21:57:44

I was rejected and abandoned by my mother. She didn't want me and clearly favoured my 2 younger siblings. It has caused huge problems for me, including problems in my relationship with my own daughter.

But, it is possible to overcome these problems and break the patterns from your own childhood. It's a long hard journey, but well worth it and the only option if you don't want your daughter to grow up feeling rejected and abandoned and in turn reject and abandon her own daughter.

pigletmania Sat 08-Aug-09 22:32:47

Lou you have a daughter end of story, she is YOUR child YOU brought her into this world, its up to YOU to make it right. She did not ask to be born, you owe it to her. You need to be trying much much harder than what you are doing now. You need threrapy to address past issues that could be responsible for you thinking in this way. The way that you and your DH and mum are going are messing up her life and that of her relationship between her and her brothers.

I sometimes wish that I i was free and able to do things i did before my dd came along, she had colic and would cry from 9 in the moring to 9 at night, and i just wanted to get away from her. My dh was at work most of the time and not very helpful I just did not feel very maternal at all, but I had to try hard for her sake and always loved her but found it difficult to show. Now its different, she is 2.5 and fantastic and bonding well.

pigletmania Sun 09-Aug-09 09:01:40

Really in conjunction with counselling I think that you should also be having psychological/psychiatric help to try and change your behaviour towards your daughter. Your husband and mother should stop enabling your behavioiur, if you cant overcome this you might consider adoption like the other posters have suggested so that your daughter has a chance of a loving and caring parents.

pigletmania Sun 09-Aug-09 09:04:30

Sorry also I cannot understand why your husband is not sticking up for your daughter his flesh and blood too, my dh would never allow me to send my daughter away, he would probably send me away instead.

christie2 Sun 09-Aug-09 12:34:07

I think you are doing the justification dance and cusardo called you on it. Just because it is hard, doesn't mean you don't do it. You are behaving in a way that is immature and selfish. I am not trying to call you names but your behavoir is that of a child. How will you ever explain to this poor girl when she is grown what you did. How will you explain it to your sons that they have a sister, but didn't get to grow up with her in the same house. You are sending the message to all your children that your love is conditional. Life is hard, so what, you are blessed to have 3 children. Go onto the TTC or miscarriage posts and you can hear the pain of those woman who want a child. All I can say is SMARTEN UP!, as my mom would say when I behaved badly.

sad sad

Again, please read Custards post over and over!

I can't even begin to understand what you are doing. Your poor daughter.

pranma Sun 09-Aug-09 13:26:36

Lou for me so much of your post[s] seem to be about you and how you feel rather than about a 3 year old toddler growing up knowing that the person who should be the centre of her world has rejected her.Honestly in many ways it would have been better to have your daughter[I wont say dd as she obviously isnt to you]adopted as a baby where she could grow up loved and wanted by a family.It is too late now and I fear that one day you will regret this.Your sons will grow up and marry and you will lose out on one of the most precious realationships a woman can have.Your feeling for your sons must be flawed too by your rejection of their sister.How will you be with their wives,their daughters.You need help and for all of your children's sakes I hope it is not too late.
Good Luck to all of you.

pigletmania Sun 09-Aug-09 14:57:57

Yes custards post summed it up so nicely, I would read it and take note if i were you. IMO I really dont know how you could not love your flesh and blood regardless of it being a boy or girl, its not how do i put it without looking bad, normal really and that is why you need to get help immediately!!! You are not just wrecking your daughters lives but that of your boys and the relationsip that they have with their sister, you have 3 children Lou, not 2, so please stop thinking about you and your issues and think about them and how you can make it right.

Merrylegs Sun 09-Aug-09 15:17:55

I am usually loathe to doubt an OP, but I really hope this sorry story isn't some kind of device to invite others to share similar experiences for some kind of journalistic gain.

There is so much about the OP that is sus, not least the reaction of the DH. If he was estranged from the family, he may feel powerless in the situation.

But the OP says they live together, so unless he is not quite the ticket, his reaction just doesn't sit right.

There has to be some deep trauma or psychological issue for the OP to not have bonded with her DD, but her DH would not have shared these experiences.

Also, if this is true, the OP needs to decide who has parental responsibility for the child.

This can be done with a private court order and does not have to involve social services. But without it, the granny will not be able to sanction medical treatment, or schooling or take the child abroad. If the child is to be brought up by granny, they need to sort this out.

Yet the OP says she doesn't have any concerns with the care arrangement.

She needs to stop detaching from her responsibilities and start attaching.

(And if she is from the Daily Mail, as her 'overbearing and interfering social worker' statement suggests, she can quote me on that.)

pigletmania Sun 09-Aug-09 15:42:01

I am not sure either Merrylegs, i would not reveal that kind of thing on a parenting forum, I would be ashamed. There are things that i am ashamed of as a parent that i would not reveal in deatil here, like smacking my dd when she is naughty instead of using other more appropriate methods.

pigletmania Sun 09-Aug-09 15:42:53

and the extent of my pnd with my daughter which is so much better now.

pigletmania Sun 09-Aug-09 15:44:00

I did seek help form the GP who was so much better than i thoughts and thats what lou has to do now!

pigletmania Sun 09-Aug-09 15:46:30

Oh yes Merrylegs unfortuately i have that opinion on SW but i do read the Daily Mail (iam not a reporter just an ordinary mum lol). However i did work with adults who have disabilities and did come across some fantastic SW and some really crap ones too.

JollyPirate Sun 09-Aug-09 16:04:30

A child going back and forth between two homes. A father who does nothing to help - just goes along with it. As far as I am concerned that is emotionally abusive. Yes SS should be involved. the reality is though that they are unlikely to be - probably all this little girl's physical day to day needs are met well. Emotional needs can be well hidden though and much less apparent when they are not met.

I would hate to see this poor child as a teenager. Either an early baby so she has something to love or drugs/alcohol to dull the pain are high possibles. Sad, very sad - just hope that Lou can get the support she needs for herself and her daughter.

pranma Sun 09-Aug-09 18:06:04

Can she be genuine do you think?Some of it seems beyond belief to me.I did post a little earlier but the more I think about it the worse it seems.I hope it is just a sick windup and there is no 3yr old girl at the heart of a nightmare.

Merrylegs Sun 09-Aug-09 18:13:49

Perhaps it is something that happened to her as a child and she is exploring it here? That would perhaps explain the slightly confused acceptance of the situation, the detached language and the glossing over of the father's role (ie as a child she never really found out what he thought. ) That is me charitably and massively overthinking this. Mostly I think this tale is not all it seems.

PinkTulips Sun 09-Aug-09 19:47:11

I think if you really believe your beloved boys are unaffected by this you're an idiot as well as cruel.

I can't imagine how awful it must be for them to know their mother gives away the children she doesn't like. How terrifying for them to constantly be afraid that if they fall out of favour they'll be packed off too. I wonder how many times after getting in trouble they've lain awake crying in fear, convinced mommy was going to give them away as she didn't love them anymore?

How horrendous for your poor twins to be separated from each other, that bond is like no other and you're doing your utmost to destroy it... do you really think either of them will forgive you for that when they're older?

Everyone here can empathise with difficulty bonding with a child i'd imagine.... but to give that child away rather than try? For a father to simply allow his daughter be banished from the family home? For a mother to take her daughter's baby rather than support and help her deal with her issues? Those things are appalling and immoral and will cause so much pain and anguish in years to come

OrmIrian Sun 09-Aug-09 19:57:39

Regardless of whether you want SS involved I am beginning to think they should be. Why would you want them involved as you seem to think that things are OK as they are? They aren't.

TwoIfBySea Sun 09-Aug-09 20:03:31

My mum never cared much for me, I was always a daddy's girl and am thankful for that.

Your dd will have emotional issues from this rejection. Although I wasn't sent away I knew plain and simple I wasn't loved, I was an annoyance. It scars for life, I don't trust people, I think everyone hates me, I cannot make long lasting friendships, and all because of what I went through - so stop it now. You are a parent, you are an adult, she is just little, never asked to be born but she needs you - whether or not you like it. What are your sons going to think? Do you not realise this will affect them too? Especially her twin.

My dad died a few months ago and my mother is selling up to move in together with us. After all that it is expected that I am there for her. Like it or not I am my dad's daughter and cannot turn her away or say no. What happens if you ever needed your daughter? What then?

I'm going to stop now.

dollius Sun 09-Aug-09 20:07:02

This won't just affect you and your DD, it will affect all her relationships and probably her children too.

My mother was abandoned by her mother aged 3 to live with her aunt, and then taken back again aged 5. Her mother wasn't able to love her.

My mother now has Narcissistic Personality Disorder and my childhood was utterly miserable. My brother and I both have serious mental health problems which will afflict us all our lives.

That is the legacy of a mother abandoning her child so easily.

Seriously, think about it.

pigletmania Sun 09-Aug-09 21:24:49

Lou I hope that you have got help please keep us posted how things are going for you. I dont mean to be harsh but it is quite an unusual situation which does need fixing immediately.

i think ur very brave saying this on line.
have u ever thought about having the boys looked after for like a week. and having ur daughter to urself. so she can have some well needed effection from her mum!
it does sound as tho u need help, wot r u thinking life will b like as she gets older? ur mum mayb fit and healthy now,but surely that wnt always b the case, ur mum has had her family and deserves to have her life.
ur daughter situation needs to b sorted out b4 it damages her for life. imagin growing upthinking/ knowing ur mum doesnt love u,it unfortunatly might get turned on u and she may not want to know u as she grows up. (sorry if that sounds harsh) but i dont want u to miss out on the amazing gift of having a daughter.

i hope u find the strength to ask for help. good luck to u

sandcastles Mon 10-Aug-09 09:40:23

pigletmania, I don't think you can equate the downright adandonment of a child with smacking a child once, when you have reached your limit!

katiestar Mon 10-Aug-09 11:30:08

Haven't read the whole thread Louise, but wondered if you had any underlying diagnosed mental health problems ? It seems to me you are severely depressed and I wonder if this is why your DH and your mum are enabling this situation.
I truly do feel sorry for you Louise and you aren't alone ,I do know of other people who have had the same problem.It isn't your fault - feelings are something outside our control.
Unlike others I am not sure that integrating her back into the family Is the best thing .She is with her grandmother who gives her love and makes her feel special.You obviously need to get your feelings sorted out before she comes back .And by then will it be fair to move a child from the woman she regards as her mum to live with you ?
I hope everything goes well for you this afternoon and you get a quick referral and get yourself on the road to happiness.

UtterMadness Mon 10-Aug-09 13:38:50

have been thinking about this.

And I just don't believe that someone would join an internet forum one day and post all this.

MN hq have confirmed that op is a first time poster (I reported thread to see if op was a known troll).

The op has clearly made her first post out in such a way that we will see her as a person - giving us her name, her age etc, so has made little effort to remain anonomous.

Someone who couldn't talk to people in rl about this (and I imagine it would be a difficult thing to talk to people about) would surely make every attempt to remain anonomous if posting about it online and op has done the opposite..

Yes maybe I could just hide the thread and not post but this isn't an average situation that lots of women might encouter and gain something from is it so ...

sorry but I don't believe a word of it.

If op really is genuine then she doesn't need online support anyway she needs professional involvement from social services...

Podrick Mon 10-Aug-09 13:50:22

I think you could learn to love your daughter as you obviously would like to - but I think you need professional help and I would ask your GP as a starting point. You have tried to solve the problem yourself and with your mum but you are obviously not really happy with the current solution - reach out for help, not online help but real help from people who have experience with this kind of problem.

posieparkerinChina Mon 10-Aug-09 14:02:59

I cannot believe that anyone would ask am I a bad person when they have subjected a child to such cruelty and not addressed this with professional help for nine years, her mother is complicit too.

Either this is a lie, or OP I think you are a despicable woman. Your sons and daughter will know how cruel you are and when your daughter is older I will be shocked if she doesn't have some very major issues from the damage you've done.

I don't think you deserve to have her back. I understand mental health is still health but you should have resolved this a very long time ago. I feel sick even thinking about the suffering of your daughter.

posieparkerinChina Mon 10-Aug-09 14:16:39

Anyone treating any child like this does not deserve children.

piscesmoon Mon 10-Aug-09 14:32:35

' She is part of the family and always has been treated as such and i make sure that she sees plenty of her twin brother as its important for them to have a relationship, he sometimes goes and stays over at his nans and they get to spend plenty of time together. So i don't have any concerns there. '

Well she isn't part of the family-is she?! You should have some concerns-seeing a twin sister as if she was a play date or cousin isn't healthy. I think your mother is being cruel by being kind-she should have insisted that you got professional help from the start. You aren't a bad person, but you need to realise that you must seek help-TODAY. Not only is your DD going to judge you (and have relationship problems in years to come) but your DSs are going to judge you too.They will maybe understand that you had problems, but not that you let the whole family suffer while you did nothing about them.

katiestar Mon 10-Aug-09 18:00:19

I am getting the feeling there is a lot more to this story than we are being told.

pigletmania Mon 10-Aug-09 18:25:54

Oh boy I dont know, I have never thought about things being fishy until it was mentioned by merrylegs. I would certainly never metion such personal things on a forum, i have told a couple of extremely close friends of my feelings concerning pnd and also doctor but never a forum.

elmofan Mon 10-Aug-09 18:51:22

sorry but i find your situation very distressing , so so sad for your little girl , there are so many people in this world that would love to have a child & you seem to be turning your back on your daughter , i just can not imagine why your DH & your mother went along with all this ,
please try get help .

bunjies Mon 10-Aug-09 20:13:40

What a very sad situation.

You have to make a choice. Either your daughter IS a part of her parents and brothers lives and she lives with you.


You make the decision that she is not a part of your life and you & your family don't have any further contact with her, including her grandmother. Put her up for adoption and let her live a normal life with a family who will genuinely care for her welfare & love her unconditionally.

Your half & half situation is only going to cause your daughter immense pain in her later life. She must not be allowed to grow up knowing her parents didn't want her, while she can see her siblings being loved & cared for.

My 50 year old sister was sent to live with our grandmother for 2 years when she was 3 years old. She has NEVER forgiven my parents for this.

pranma Mon 10-Aug-09 20:27:56

I agree with UtterMadness absolutely

Sakura Tue 11-Aug-09 07:26:38

I have learned a lot (the hard way) about how mothers who are damaged find it difficult to cope with caring properly for their own children. Lou, I know nothing about your relationship with your own mother but I find it highly suspicious that she was so keen to keep your DD for herself.

Anyhow, I wasn`t going to post but something that someone else wrote really upset me. The poster wrote about how she and her twin lived apart from their parents but now she still has that bond with her twin whereas in your case your daughter`s bonds to any of her siblings have been effectively stolen from her. This upset me because although I sustained an abusive childhood I believe my bonds to my siblings saw me through and it saddens me so much to see your daughter isolated from her brothers. i think even if you think you can`t cope you should give it a try again.

DamonBradleylovesPippi Tue 11-Aug-09 08:06:24

Where's the OP?

roxy12 Tue 11-Aug-09 11:57:26

SO PLEASED you are getting it sorted lou. good for you, you have the courage to post on here and also you are sorting it out. It is hard but you will over come all this and you will be a happy family (well i hope it works out that way)

Good luck with everything and i really do believe with help you will all be ok.

I dont agree with what you have done but i cant imagine how you feel right now.
No one can help the way they feel.

MollieO Tue 11-Aug-09 12:03:36

I don't buy Heat or Closer but that is probably where this will end up or in a chicklit book.

Milliemuffin Tue 11-Aug-09 12:24:28

Get her home NOW where she belongs before you do any more damage to all 3 of your children.

elmofan Tue 11-Aug-09 14:24:42

this is the most disturbing post i have ever seen on MN . i can not begin to understand how any mother could do this to her child .

ZZZenAgain Tue 11-Aug-09 19:26:18

I never spend much time wondering if an OP is telling the truth tbh. I just assume they are but I came a cropper on the one about the dh wanting a fully "haired" wife...

In a way this thread reminds me of the one about a mother planning to leave her 3 year old dd to be brought up by the grandmother while she went off to study medicine in Cambridge. Will we see an article before long on the question under what circumstances should grandparents be surrogate parents. I thought at the time, the OP sounded a lot older and I wondered if it was actually the grandmother posting as the young mother.

We won't ever know so I give lou the benefit of the doubt. If you're still followingthe thread lou, I hope the meeting with the GP was helpful and you felt able to tell him enough. It is quite different to admit in real life to not being the fully loving perfect mum. Well done if you managed to get the ball rolling and I hope you get the help you need.

DamonBradleylovesPippi Tue 11-Aug-09 20:53:21

ZZZenAgain if I may that was such a different thread. That poster loved her dd and was going to see her often and regularly. The dd was not rejected or not chosen. Also it seemed that the OP was doing all that hard work and sacrifices for the benefit of the family. Very very different IMHO.

pigletmania Tue 11-Aug-09 20:56:14

Yes that is a totally different situation, i exect that the dd was very well loved and wanted by the mother, the mother is trying to build a better life for her children and its only temporary.

lisad123 Tue 11-Aug-09 21:03:44

You need to be the parent here and get her home. Yes its hard, most of us dont find parenting easy.
Maybe you should start with weekends (why you havent been doing that from the start is beond me). Yes she will find it hard, she properly knows you dont want her there, and is used to be cared for as an only child with a loving nan.
Im shocked your dh didnt refuse at all? Did he have any say in this?

Get some help asap and get her home before you screw her up for life.

katiestar Wed 12-Aug-09 09:26:28

Why should she get her home ?Surely she is better in a household where she is loved than being wrenched from it into a new place where the mother figure can't bond with her.
From the child's point of view I think it is very similar to teh medical student situation.

ZZZenAgain Wed 12-Aug-09 09:30:44

yes , yes I know what you mean but I'm just thinking both are 3 year old dds, both to be brought up by the grandmother etc etc. After what someone wrote below, I was kind of wondering if a journalist might not be researching the whole concept of leaving dc to be brought up by grandparents and probing to find out when we would say, yes ok that's fine and when we would come down on the mother. Don't worry, just a touch of paranoia on my part, nothing permanent. As I said, I don't really sweat it that much usually, I just assume people are not trolls, including here.

DamonBradleylovesPippi Wed 12-Aug-09 10:42:58

Yes I see what you mean. Usually I also tend to assume it's all true only because otherwise there will be little point in posting at all and whether true or not there's always some food for thought, like in this case. But I start to think this is made up. The op is not back and the situation is too much 'jane eyre' style without much depth. I did believe the university one however and to reply to katie star I do not tink that the DDs would have the same perspective on this - one is loved one isn't! the fact that she won;t see her mum everyday won't hinder that. my children see my dh less then half what they see me but not once they thought he didn;t love them.

Horton Wed 12-Aug-09 13:17:58

Was the other one three? I thought she was a younger child, maybe 12 or 18 months.

letsgostrawberrypicking Wed 12-Aug-09 14:48:06

I emailed MNHQ on monday about this and a thread where again the op hasnt come back on which is similar posting style but haven't had a reply yet, apart from the initial one acknowledging my email. Am not usually suss abouut threads and apololgies to OP if genuine and you are busy sorting out your family, but ... hmm

Horton Wed 12-Aug-09 16:06:57

What's the other thread?

letsgostrawberrypicking Fri 14-Aug-09 22:56:18

It was one from last friday where the op gave loads of info about her situation - a very personal issue, all very quickly, got lots of replies, all in the space of a few hours then has disappeared since.

Maybe it's linked with th new DM thread as it seemed very "scripted" to me hmm

MNHQ have still not told me anything though

messalina Sat 15-Aug-09 00:29:51

Obviously a lot has already been said on this matter and it appears that some MN users are now sceptical about the veracity of the OP. The OP seemed heartfelt and I find it hard to believe that anyone could be so callous as to make that story up. LouLou probably hasn't responded because she has more pressing concerns. I was really, really shocked by her story and feel very sad for her, but especially for her daughter. As she is now 3, I fail to see how it cannot have had a traumatic effect on her, unless perhaps she is still too little to understand. But what also shocked me was the relative frequency of MN users claiming that they too sometimes didn't love their children. Perhaps I am totally naive but I always manage to divorce my feelings about DD's crying/refusal to eat etc. from my feelings about her as a person and how much I love her. Finally, I think it's a very interesting, and disturbing issue, whether parents do actually love or identify more with one child rather than another.

Quattrocento Sat 15-Aug-09 00:41:19

What a horrible and shocking story.

Well done to the posters who were able to swallow hard and try to give helpful advice

Therapy might be the answer

You might actually consider asking your husband for a divorce so that he could live with your daughter and she would see and feel that at least she has one parent who loves her

Zarn Sat 15-Aug-09 10:39:17

I am so sorry to read your post. For both you and your daughter. Neither of you deserve this sadness. Don't give up. It is not that you don't love her. You do. Your unconscious knows this. For some reason your conscious mind is protecting you from the fear of loving her. It doesn't matter why. What matters is that a bond starts to grow. Please don't pressure yourself. It so doesn't happen overnight.

I discovered this post the other day and just think it is wonderful and so so true.

Please read Generations of Expectation: Do Maternal Instincts Really Exist. I feel this may shed a little light on bonding with your baby girl.

lifelovelust.co.uk is the blog site the article is found on.

I hope it will help now.

zoena Sun 06-Sep-09 13:50:10

hi everyone, i actually wish i had found this thread sooner but oh well!
i actually had a little cry over some of the harsh judgemental comments left, after having suffered the worst form of breakdown following birth (its zoe from help me love my baby) i find it hard to comprehend anyone being anything but helpful or compassionate to a woman obviously in a deeply traumatic situation.
yes it is a very sad situation for her daughter to be in and her post may have come accross as unemotional but she has been very brave coming on here, i first told people about how i felt about izzy on a mums forum the day i was diagnosed with pnd, i wasnt truly honest as some of the thoughts i had were horrendous (i most definately would have been shot down on here by the looks of it!)
i think the not liking girls is because of some deep hidden psychological issue that needs to be dealt with, i felt depressed when pregnant and i kind of subconsciously knew that things would be right when izzy was born but tried to bury it.
i know some may not agree but in some ways it is a double edged sword as if lous daughter stayed with her undoubtly she would pick up on the non attachment (if a five month old baby can then a tolder def will) but going to her moms just confirms shes sort of not wanted at home. so she needs help either way!
it is a very very sad situation and i really hope lou has taken the positive advice from here and got some help and i wish them all the best and lou if you ever want to talk im here xxx

zoena Sun 06-Sep-09 13:53:09

and even at three therapy can most definately help, my eldest was four when i had mine and it one hundred percent helped our relationship, she actually told me she loved me for the first time, and we are now normal for want of a better word!!

FabBakerGirlIsBack Sun 06-Sep-09 13:59:20

My mother never wanted me.

She wanted a boy.

She never loved me.

She gave me away.

I have, and never will, get over it.

I can't say what I really want to but sort this out for your daughter's sake. What SHE needs is far more important that what you want.

twinmam Sun 06-Sep-09 14:26:48

Fab sad What a horrible, horrible thing for you to endure. I am more than impressed that you have gone on to be a good mother despite the terrible mothering you received. Well done for being restrained about this when in many ways this is the kind of thing that must force you once again to confront what was done to you. I only hope that reading about this situation helps you to keep on realising that it was never ever your fault, that you are loveable and deserve to be loved.

I have followed this thread from the start and it is one of the saddest I have read. It is hard not to judge because it is so incomprehensible to so may of us. God, there are times when I don't really like my DCs or particularly like being a mum but I have always loved them. I guess that they and I am fortunate in that.

Troll or not, there clearly are women out there who have these feelings or lack of them and they certainly need help.

However, I would say that we can't help how we feel but we can (usually) help how we behave and sending a child away from its family and its twin seems, I'm afraid, terribly terribly cruel and lacking in responsibility. This will surely have been a terrible blow to the entire family and not just the poor little girl, for whom I feel so sad. If this is real then well done for being brave to own up to feelings that society deem as reprehensible and please please seek the help you need for your daughter's sake and that of your family.

TheDMshouldbeRivened Sun 06-Sep-09 14:45:47


FabBakerGirlIsBack Sun 06-Sep-09 16:09:55

I was so frightened of having a girl in case it was a repeat of my mother and me.

I have 2 boys and a girl and they are my world. I can't understand how she can give up her child for the reasons she did. I best not post them or I might get sweary.

twinmam Sun 06-Sep-09 16:28:28

Fab, I can imagine what you might want to say to this thread.

.......And you Riven sad

Am kind of lost for words at the irony and crappiness of it all sad

TheDMshouldbeRivened Sun 06-Sep-09 17:40:40

she never came back though, did she.

zoena Sun 06-Sep-09 19:03:12

fab what a horrible thing to have happen to you but i am so happy you broke the chain and went the opposite way to your mom, i never wanted kids full stop because of my mom, wouldnt have mattered what sex i just thought i would be a terrible mother like she was!
no she didnt come back so maybe she has been getting the help she needed, sad sad situation for everyone involved and yes real or not i have no doubt there are women out there that this has happened to, having a mental illness does affect your judgement and common sense etc... i used to leave my dd with her dad and go off driving for hours on end, i always came home (even tho i didnt want to, because of my other daughter)

evita122 Tue 15-Sep-09 22:30:57

hi Louise, thanks for telling your story. Now I know I'm not on my own. I'm also 29 and have 2 daughters. Eldest just turned 6 and my baby is 3 months old. When I was younger I always said I wasn't going to have children. Just never liked them. Never had a good relationship with my mum and it happened that I emigrated as my husband is a different nationality to mine. After a year of being married I fell pregnant. All the way through the pregnancy there was something on the back of my mind that I didn't want this child. I had a quick but very traumatic labour. I never liked that baby, didn't think that someone could not love their own child so I've just settled for 'not liking' her. Suffered PND. It started when I was still pregnant but didnt realised I was depressed untill she was 1 year old.Could never cope with her even though she was a very good little girl never had a tantrum but for past few months she's been awful. The atitude, back chats you name it.Then the baby came along and its her I cant cope with. She annoys me and I'm glad when she's at school. One night when she was being naughty I ended up telling my husband I'm not coping with her he asked 'you love her though, don't you?'. Thats what made me realised I didnt. It wasnt that I didnt like her - I dont love her. It is very upseting and I dont know what to do. I'm scared about talking about it. Every day I feel like I need to take my baby and run away but got nowhere to run

paddyclamp Sun 20-Sep-09 22:29:43

i can't believe some ppl are for real..how sad

Dawnybabe Fri 25-Sep-09 20:53:03

Just come to this a bit late, but deeply shocked and bewildered by the whole idea.

What would the OP have done if she'd had all girls? Got rid of all of them? All of her children? How would she feel if her dd died? Why can't this woman appreciate how blessed she is? I think she's mental, frankly.

I've got two girls. I don't know what else to say. I am genuinely at a loss for words.

claireyfairey1975 Fri 25-Sep-09 21:20:42

I have only read some of the posts but think some of the people who have posted should be bloody well grateful that they have a healthy child who should to all intents and purpose live a normal life, that is unless they are so screwed because of attachment/abandonment issues. Very sad.

Vivia Sat 26-Sep-09 18:59:32

I'm new, hi all!

OP and evita122 have very similar writing styles. I think they are the same person and this story is false. Otherwise, how utterly horrific and shameful.

tiktok Sat 26-Sep-09 19:20:16

I too think it is possible evita and the OP are the same person but it is also possible they are not. Speculating is no good.

Either way, evita, the thread has some good contacts in it, and telephone numbers to call.

You deserve to share love with your daughter as much as anyone else. But you will need help to find it.

Don't leave things any longer, will you?

Good luck.

Vivia Sat 26-Sep-09 19:53:10

You're right, tiktok - my speculation was perhaps my way of hoping this isn't real. Too sad.

NestaFiesta Mon 05-Oct-09 11:54:47

A very brave post, OP. Takes some guts admitting all that. However, your poor daughter will grow up knowing she is being treated differently and it will cause all sorts of self esteem problems later in life, if it hasn't started already. The least you can do for her is get some professional help and sort yourself out before you ruin her life. You should have done it a lot sooner too, seeing as she is 5 already!

I am saying this as someone whose mother has treated me very differently to my siblings, who she openly adores. I am 40 soon and it still affects me if I let it.

sadmostly12 Mon 02-May-11 05:29:22

It has to be that something in your childhood made you think boys deserved more love than girls. I was one of 6 children, 5 boys and me the only girl. My mom favored them over me and now I am treating my daughter with less love and attention, she is 8 yrs old right now and I have been doing this since her brother who will be 7 in a few months was born. I hate myself for loving him more but I'm acting out how I was treated..I know mine is psychological because of the rejection I felt as I was the only daughter. So many people would say if you were the only daughter you must have been spoiled rotten. Quite the opposite..at 16, while still in High School my mom made me get a job in order to support myself while I lived at home still. My brothers were treated like royalty..yes I was resentful. Is that the reason I am rejecting my daughter? Has to be because I know I love her but I have to remind myself to give her as much love and attention as I give to her younger brother.

AnMum Wed 04-May-11 16:25:46

I'm stunned! How on earth could you do that to a child?? What is she going to think when she grows up? You chose to have children and were lucky enough to be blessed with happy healthy ones...get over yourself and take responsibility for all of them! Sorry if that sounds harsh but I just can't believe someone would do that!

QuackQuackBoing Wed 04-May-11 16:54:57

I haven't read all this but I don't think you should have sent her to her nans in the first place, that wasn't going to solve anything. You need professional help.

BooBooGlass Wed 04-May-11 16:57:12

Old post people. Nesta bumped it from the archives

ilovebooks1470 Sat 26-Jan-13 14:07:14

Your daughter never wanted to be born in a situation like this! How about thinking about her! I'm sorry if I'm out of line, but you're treating her like she's a step daughter, not living in your home, not having being around her brothers all the time, don't you wonder if they'll grow up seeing her as a 'half' sister? You CANNOT just pick and choose your children! If the girl is at her grans, why not just move the boys there too? At the very least the kids should be all together, or they'll grow up either feeling superior (boys) or inferior (girl) depending on where they lived as a child. The amount of self esteem issues you are opening your daughter and boys up to- depression, suicide, self harm. PLEASE, for the sake of your children, get things sorted.

FancyPuffin Sat 26-Jan-13 14:23:34



stargirl1701 Sat 26-Jan-13 14:23:59

Zombie thread.

I hope she got help.

Shinyshoes1 Sat 26-Jan-13 14:33:26

Christ how awful for your little girl

All I'm getting from your posts is me me me me me me white noise me me me me me

Disgusting and my heart is breaking for YOUR daughter whom will have psychological and emotional issues through something that is not her fault

Shinyshoes1 Sat 26-Jan-13 14:43:24

Oh and please don't have anymore children FFs you might end up with another little girl .

EduCated Sat 26-Jan-13 14:56:39

Oh, FFS. Just read through all this and even reported a post (sorry, MN blush)


KateSMumsnet (MNHQ) Sat 26-Jan-13 14:58:49

Hi everyone,

We feel should alert you to the fact that this is very old thread, and the OP was banned shortly after starting it.

Jestrin Thu 21-Feb-13 21:41:26

Your dd is really going to have issues growing up knowing you rejected her but not her brothers. You really need to resolve this.

IrisGirl Fri 22-Feb-13 22:48:24

what a very sad post, and how very brave of you to put it here.

i think the first thing you should do is go seek professional help regarding this and do it fast, before damage is done that cannot be undone. your darling daughter did not ask to be born, she did not ask to be a girl and she certainly did not ask (nor deserve) to be treated like this. i feel so sad for you as you are missing out and potentially damaging what can be a wonderful relationship/friendship in the future.

what also worries me is the harm this is doing to your sons, with this behaviour are they being shown that a girl/woman is to be disregarded and not thought of, do you think that they may grow up, realise what you have done to their sister and hate you for it, therefore losing 3 children??

please go and seek help before this situation becomes worse.

i wish you, and perhaps more so your daughter, all the luck in the world xx

emsibub Sat 23-Feb-13 00:35:22

Wow I'm amazed by your story. Truly gobsmacked.

Whatever your issues I hope this innocent little girl manages (against all odds) to grow into a confident and balanced human being.

mummy2benji Sat 23-Feb-13 09:24:26

You've had so many replies I wonder if you are still reading them all?! I think you need some counselling to try to work out why you haven't bonded with your daughter. Maybe it is to do with the birth, your own relationship with your mum or other females - who knows, but it needs addressing. I appreciate your honesty and courage in admitting this, and realise it must be hard for you - but at the end of the day no child deserves to grow up feeling like the unwanted child. Your daughter may adore your mum and love spending time with her but believe me, when she grows up and becomes a teen she will look at her relationship with you and judge herself and her own self-worth on it. Don't risk a lifetime of eating disorders / depression / delinquent behaviour because she feels unloved by her mother. I can't stress enough how important this is. I hate to say it, but as women we are all defined a little by our relationship with our mothers. I felt criticised by mine and spent my teen years trying to please and obtain praise from her - I became such a perfectionist and I suffered with anorexia for years. However hard it is, I think you need to 'man up' (or the female equivalent) and do your best to take your daughter into your heart. However your feelings for her may differ from that of your sons, never let her see that. Relationships in life need working at, and sometimes mother - child relationships fall into that category. Spend some one on one time with her, find out her interests, do an activity together that you don't do with your sons. Over time you may find your feelings changing and learn to love her as much as your boys.

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