yes, is worth it. Just make sure its someone good...I saw a homeopath before when we were ttc and she was ok, but didn't do wonders. But the lady I see now is kind of exceptional I think. She also gives me a sleep remedy that is really good, I drop off instantly. I was taking about 5 Calms pills to get to sleep and even then I was worrying about everything. Also I've been seeing a counsellor, so the two together really helped me work through a lot of things. I think you just have phases in your life where everything gets on top of you and you need a bit of help. I would much rather think about it all, even feel sad if I need to, than take drugs...the gp did give me beta blockers, but I didnt' take them. Just used the homeopathic anti anxiety remedy and that was fine.

That's really interesting. I'll have to look into it. Thank you x

Yes it works really well for me. I think you have to make sure you find someone really good...the lady I see was recommended. Really helped with anxiety and sorting our my hormones, balancing me basically. I know it works, don't care what critics say, because if you take arnica for bruising or for an operation, it clearly works...

That's very interesting - How did the homeopathy work??

You don't have to take anti depressants, just realise you are feeling down, and try to get a break. I went to talk to my gp and said no way would I take ADs...I ended up being referred to a counsellor for 6 sessions which really helped. Also went to a homeopath which helped balance my hormones. There are things you can do...also everyone feels like that some days, so you're not at all alone. Obviously from all the posts!

Thank you so much backtoblue. I have re-read this thread, though not for a while. I am definately doing better than before, but still get some days where I'm finding it hard. It can all feel a bit isolating at time - do you know what I mean?

Dh is great - very supportive. HV calls every now and then and GP is also supportive and seeing me regularly. She says I don't need AD's which is great.

Yes ds2 will be 4 months tomorrow. How about yours? How is ds1 doing around him now? Bet he loves him to pieces! I am trying really ahrd to enjoy it for what it is - just like you - but it's just hard sometimes. I had been doing so well but have been a little low since yesterday. I'm still keeping busy and trying to get out and about..

Have you re-read this thread at all to go over the good advice & the support? And to see how you have had your good & bad times- things do change!

Don't just struggle on though shish; how are things with your dh & does the HV still visit (or do you see her/him) and same with GP?

How is ds2 doing? Must be about 4 months old is he now? Remember that this time DOES pass & it'll seem like it whizzed by. I don't want to look back & regret not enjoying it or at least appreciating it for what it is. I don't plan to have another one ...do you?!

What about weaning? I'm not going to rush into that or think about it yet! You've done it once...you'll do it again!!

I'm having a hrad couple of day and finding that sit down to type on here and I'm just panicking - sorry. I didn't mean to be so brief.

I'm trying to convince myself that I will see the benefits of 2 dc's but finding it hard at the moment. Now also starting to get stressed about weaning ds2 as there is so much conflicting advice from different HV's and can't remember exactly how I did it with ds1. I think I just keep on finding things to stress about..

Shish - talk more on here..it's helpful & it'll be good just to write things down anyway.

I really don't know why. I think I still feel a little daunted by the everything..

I'm going to Nuero lingusitic programmming (NLP) sessions with this woman. NLP just fancy name for something like CBT and she does soem relaxtion with me which she calls hypnosis. It's nice if nothing else!

Why are Thursdays bad? Any reason? Hope it's got better for you.

For some reason Thursday is always a bit of a low day for me. On the whole I'm doing better, but I still feel anxious and panicky a lot of the time..

What sessions have you been going to?

Shish! Are you still checking this thread?
How are things going? I have been going to some sessions to try to change my thinking/behaviour. They have been quite positive so far.
Ds2 is more smiley & everything seems more "normal" around his development. My worrying will not stop completely though & I still struggle with my mood & anxiety.

But I'm coping & my 2 boys are growing up all the time....I am trying to stop wishing this time away so much & try to enjoy them both more. I bet you are doing well too & have 2 happy, loved boys. Perhaps you are hard on yourself & set high expectations? I know I do - we ARE doing the job really well even as we sit here worrying so much about them.

I can so understand where you're coming from. I thought I was doing ok and this afternoon I just feel like crying. The fact that ds2 has thrown up on me 3 time in 5 minutes really isn't helping!

My aim today is avoid negative comments and criticism of ds1. It only upsets him and that upsets me and I feel like a "bad" mummy. I can't be perfect. But I'm very hard on myself and see my failings so easily without acknowledging my good points.

So, I'm going to see how nice I can be to ds1 today!

Morning Shish!
Thanks for your messages. I am doing ok really but as you know it is just SO up & down. I have got a bit exhausted with the up & downs now so I'm just trying to level out.

I am realising a lot about myself. My problems are probably a mixture of personality, anxiety, hormones, and circumstance! Two children is hard at times and it is demanding and takes alot of emotional strength. Just like you I'm hoping that things will get easier when ds2 starts sitting up and playing a bit more independently. He has become quite whiny and irritable this week - he is normally placid. I think it may be dreaded teeth moving around as he's ramming everything into his mouth.

How are your boys doing? And you? What are you up to today?

I can't stop thikning about you backtoblue since I replied to your thread yesterday. You seemed to be doing so well. If anything the first time you posted on this thread you were giving me words of encouragement. Please hand on in there. We'll support each other x

You sound just like me backtoblue. Constanly anxious and stressed. I'm doing the same as you - keeping busy. I've also been missing time alone with ds1 and feeling that life was easier before ds2 but I'm trying so hard not to hink like that cos then I feel guilty that I'm being unfair on ds2. The last few days have been better - I think cos I have been keeping very busy.

I'm sure you're a great mum x

Hi again Shish. My ds2 was 4months yesterday!

Part of my problems have been severe anxiety around his development. We got referred to a paed when he was just 8 weeks old due to poor social develpment. He appears to be brighter more recently & I am attempting to address my anxiety. Also trying to be better mum all round. This involves attempting to chill out and "go with the flow"; be less critical and irritable with my ds1 who is a sweetheart and gets the brunt of my mood sometimes.

Sometimes I just feel tugged at from all angles at home with 2 under 3years.

This motherhood business is a tough learning experience for me! It brings up "issues" for me prob from my own parents. I try to have friends round or get out most days. I miss time with just me and ds1. Life seems so easy back then before ds2!

I haven't taken the AD's - so determined not to. I try to keep busy and occupied and force myself to feel confident. It's hard.

Ds2 is 15 weeks now. How old is yours now? I just keep getting worked up about stuff.

How are you getting on? I hope you're doing well. I'm looking forward to ds2 being a bit older. Maybe once he is sitting and able to play with some toys things might feel a little easier? I know it was around 6 months with ds1 that I felt more confident as a mum. I'm hoping it will be the same again. People tell me it gets easier and more 'enjoyable' when dc2 hits around 6 months, so here's hoping - for both of us x

Hi Shish
Wondered how you are getting along?
As you say - It is nice to share experiences with people going through similar things so I am keeping an eye on your thread!

I think it's really positive that you have had some rushes of feelings for ds2! How old is he now? Our boys are very similar ages.

Also - as I am up and (ever so low) down from week to week; I wondered if you started the ADs or not? I've got by without them so far but I'm not convinced that it would be wise for me not to take them if I have another really low phase.

Hope today is a good one for you! x

Shish - I felt like you do too, only I felt like that about my first child more than my second. I would fantasise all the time about having a day without them and I truly did regret having children at all.

When I was at home with both of them, the only way I could cope was by having a routine (for me not the dcs) which involved going out as much as possible. I caught busses everywhere and as they were at a precise time, they set the routine for my day. I avoided being home alone with the dcs as much as possible.

I love my children very much now so it will come but you need to be kind to yourself. Would also say I started to take ADs (having refused to do so for a year until things got out of hand) and they have deffinitely made by life better.

Thank you juicy12. That's really knid of you.

Backtoblue I'm sorry things aren't any better for you yet. I'm sure you haven't messed up your relationship with ds1. If he's anything like my ds1, he'll be sso happy to have a baby brother. I hope you're right. I hope one day we will both be telling each other that it's all in the past and we are happy, comfotable and confident with our 2 ds's. Keep me posted and let me know how you're getting on. I don't know about you, but for me it helps so much to talk to someone who is going through something similar. It shows me that I'm not the only one and by supporting each other I guess we're also supporting ourselves.

Every now and then I feel a rush of warmth and love for ds2. I hope this means I'm on the road to things getting better?

Don't look too far ahead either. Sometimes, when I was feeling totally overwhelmed, even bedtime seemed like an eternity away. But when bedtime did come, I could feel like I'd managed another day. Try and be nicer to yourself too. If it's your "thing" drop some hints to DH to book you in for a massage/facial, or just do it yourself! Being a mum is one of the hardest jobs around - you don't get much training, it's no wonder people don't feel hugely confident. I'm going to keep looking at this thread to see how you're getting on.

Shish - I posted a while ago on here.
I feel so similar to you...I hope we will both look back on these weeks in the not too distant future & just feel relief that we made it through a very tough time to a better, happier, easier time. I know that this was my experience with ds1 - hell followed by a gradual ever growing love of being a mother and an ever growing love of my son.

Now I feel I've messed up my relationship with ds1 by having ds2. But in my rational moments I just think "hold on" and ride the storm.

Our time will come! You are doing great ...really! I'm impressed with the yoga etc. & you're looking for help in all the right places!

Girlsyearapart I'm quite big on routine. I guess it's a bit of a control thing. The thing is ds2 has fallen into a routine all by himself for feeding but not for daytime naps, but I still feel rubbish..

Juicy12 I really hope you're right. I keep on hoping that one day iwill wake up and feel strong, confident and happy with my 'new' family. Ds1 tells me he loves having a baby brother.

MrsSnoops you've hit the nail on the head. I had anxieties after ds1 which went, but his it has come back worse. But, I still keep hoping that I can work through it like I did last time and it will go away.

I try to get out every day even if it's only to buy some milk. I'm going to baby group and baby yoga and generally keep myself busy. I'm trying so hard to help myself. I'm hoping that as ds2 grows and starts to sit, hold toys etc that things will get better - like with ds1.

I have been thinking about this thread all morning. I know a lot of people have come on and shared with you how they have been through similar things and I just thought I would add to that voice!
You sound so very similar to me. I had anxiety after having DS, but somehow it was bearable or ignorable and it slowly got better. I now also have a DD who is now 7 months. When she was born all the anxiety came back and this time so much worse. I couldn't enjoy her or mothering at all. I was genuinely shocked by how awful I felt and how she just didn't feel part of our family. The guilt was also horrendous.

I felt like I should just snap out of it and if I just stopped dwelling then things would get better.

In the end I decided we all had a right to be happy, me and the kids and DH and so I went to my HV and demanded help. I don't think I would have got it otherwise.

I am now seeing a psychologist and it is actually through the Child and Infant Mental Health team (or something like that) and it is therapy for us both and we look at how I feel in relation to the kids. It has taken a while, but I can now see the benefits and think that the change for the better will be immense.

You absolutely deserve to be happy and someone will be able to help you. I know you can't see how right now, but there is a way out of this and the fact that you want it to change has got to be a good start.

Sorry for the waffle, you are not alone.

Hello, Shish. You're being soooo hard on yourself. Please don't. My DS was 2.5 when his sister was born and I can still clearly remember trying to get her to sleep after a night-feed and crying and teling her I didn't want a newborn baby, and that I wished I'd just had one child. I found it really hard at times with both of them and the first day that my DH went back to work (when DD was 2 weeks) I was on the phone sobbing to my mum by 10am, saying I couldn't cope with 2 kids on my own. Practical things that helped me were that my mum came up one day a week and we paid for DS to do an extra day at nursery until DD was 3 months old. That just gave me a bit more time to get to know DD and bond properly with her. I felt guilty for "sending DS away", but realised that it was short-term. With DS, we were pretty tight on routine, which suited us, but I forced myself to relax a bit with DD. I just had to keep telling myself that I would have really s**t days and also better days and gradually the s**t days got overtaken by the better days. Looking back I definitely had PND when I had DS, but was too scared to go to HV/GP. YOU ARE BRAVE for having done so. Well done. I know how you feel and please believe that I'm not just saying it, but you will feel better and when you do, it will hit you like a juggernaut how much joy and happiness you'll get from having two beautiful kids. I'm an only child and I would have loved to have had a sibling.

Felt less like that prob when dd2 was 4-5 mo and dd1 was walking well. Had got used to having 2 and in a routine. Routine is a big thing for me..

I don't hink anyone can help me. I just want to be happy..

I've explained how I feel about ds2 to both GP and HV. I really want to just get past these first few months which have been a struggle for me both times but with different anxieties.

You could take your DS2, I'm sure that would be fine. He would probably sleep or feed I expect.

Did you explain how you feel about DS2?

To be honest, I think your Dr should have been a bit more proactive on your behalf. Have you managed to speak to your Health Visitor? Maybe she could suggest something?

I know I have pnd but am trying to avoid AD's. Councelling is an option but no-one to look after ds2 while I go so a bit difficult..

Girlsyerapart when did you feel less like that? GP reckons it will go away but it's early days yet.. She thinks I should go easier on myself.

Just to say felt same for a while dd's are 10mo and 22 mo so when dd2 arrived dd1 wasn't walking v confidently so it was all just hard and generally exhausting! Things are better now we're all in a routine though(even contemplating a 3rd next year )
My top tips are - talk to people about how you feel, other mums HV whoever you feel comfortable with. Most people who have more than 1 dc have felt the same at one point. Try to go out every day even if just to shops or wherever. Remember don't be too hard on yourself it will get easier and no one ever really knows what they're doing!

PS: fantastic that you went to the gp. Probably also worth talking about it to your health visitor

No, you are not. You probably have pnd - that is nothing to do with being a bad mother.

Did the GP not offer you medication or counselling?

No real solution from GP, although she was very nice and will see me again in a couple of weeks.

Having that awful feeling of regret again today - wishing we had stuck with one. I really wish it would go away. It's really not fair on ds2. He was planned. I must be the world's worst mother!

Going to see Gp now. Feeling low again today. Doesn't help that ds2 is so irritable

Thank you clemette .

Thank you BottySpottom. Waiting for 12 months and 18 months is like a lifetime away right now. A couple of months seems a tiny bit more witihin arm's reach.

MN is a lifeline for me right now cos you have all been so kind and supportive x

You are very brave to face up to the fact there is a problem . It takes a lot to do that.

Give it a few months and your hormones will have settled, you will be getting a bit of sleep, your children will adore each other, and you will feel so much better. The turning points for me are always 12 months, and then 18 months. Things suddenly get better. It seems a horribly long way off, but things will get better dramatically in a couple of months.

Good luck, keep posting.

But you will.

I really need more confidence. I just can't feel confident as a family of 4 yet..

It has been a better week. This time last week it felt like my whole world was crashing down around me. This week I've felt a bit more on top of stuff - even had a happy day out with ds2 and dh on Wednesday. But I feel like I'm in a visious circle cos when I am having a better day I feel guilty about not feeling so anxious. The anxiety is always there in the background but I am trying so so hard to try and keep it at bay and to try and be happy. I still don't feel like I'm enjoying ds2 the way I should be, but am trying really hard at that too.

The thing that erassures me is how much ds1 loves his baby brother.

How are you doing shish?

He will be fine. My DD was the same age and adores her little brother. I kept reminding myself I had added something to her life even when I felt I had ruined hers (and mine).

I agree. My ds1 just turned 3 a couple of weeks ago and he's at a stage where he's just so much fun. He's developed his own sense of humour and he's talking lots now. I feel so guilty that I'm missing out on so much with him cos I'm so tired and stressed all the time - and cos I have to split my time.

Keep going though - there may be someone new next week.
I could never understand people who were broody for babies - I get broody for toddlers!

I hate the baby stage. I have friends who say they are really enjoying their second babies - just not me. I feel like there's no control - just panic. With ds1 it all felt better after about 6 months. He was on 3 meals and 3 milk feeds - not on demand! I had a lot more control and that made me feel a lot more relaxed.

The mums at the group this time are so different to the ones that I met last time. They were so much more lively and friendly.

Don't get me wrong - it didn't take a year for me to feel like I was graudally getting better, it just took a year for everything to feel "right" again. I think this is quite normal - many of my friends say they would have another if they didn't have to do the baby stage again. There are many, many women who feel like the early days are just unrewarding slog. keep asking for help, keep getting out and meeting other mums, and keep reminding yourself that you felt like this last time and it all turned out OK - that the love did kick in...

Thank you all

Clemette I don't think I can wait a year for things get better. I've had the same thoughts as you but I've never said them out loud as I feel so awful for even just thinking it.

I just want my confidence back. I want to be able to see the benefits of what we've done. I feel so bad because ds2 is just as beautiful as ds1 was at this age. I didn't enjoy ds1 at this age and now I'm gutted that it's happening again. I never took anything last time. I never even went to the GP. The HV I had at the time helped me by sending me to the mother and baby group so that's why I'm going again.

Shish - just wanted to say that although I have no experience of PND, I have a close friend who has depression. He spent a long time avoiding ADs as he thought that he should be able to do it on his own, just needed to talk about things etc. Then he said he would try them for a couple of months - and the change has been huge for him.

He says that he now thinks of them like a walking stick when you've sprained your ankle. Your ankle will fix itself in time, but you need to care for it, do physio etc, and if you just keep walking on it it's really hard for it to get better. The walking stick won't fix things on it's own, but just gives your ankle a chance to mend faster, and for you to do the physio cos you are in less pain.

Taking the ADs has helped lift him enough to go out and get counselling, and sort of see the way through. He just couldn't get there on his own

Obv with PND it is a temporary thing due to hormone changes anyway, so 6 months of ADs gets you through the really low bit and lets you enjoy your family until it clears

shish reading your posts reminded me of me just over a year ago. I found having my second INCREDIBLY difficult and frequently wished he wasn't around. I even asked DH to speak to social services about putting him up for adoption!
Now I recognise it as PND but my GP was very canny. He knew I would refuse ADs (long story) so instead arranged for my HV to phone me every other day. It really helped me just having someone to talk to and she was excellent - entirely non-judgemental.

It took a while but just after DS was one I realised that I did actually love him. I stopped becoming his "carer" and now am his mother.
It will happen and what you are feeling is very, very common.

HV coming to see me this afternoon. Althought the last few days have been relatively good.

Thanks BarrelOfMonkeys. I am getting enough sleep but I still feel very tired. Ds2 is going through the night so I really shouldn't be complaining.

Dh is being very supportive. He's spent a large part of the evening looking up PND.

You've all been so kind and supportive. I can't express how much I appreciate it.

Just checked and yes, Citalopram is one of those. Stopping suddenly is a very bad idea so speak to your GP before thinking about coming off them. (ExBF used to be on this, among other ADs, so I speak from experience here!)

And don't forget you are still full of pregnancy/birth hormones so mood swings are to be expected. Don't beat yourself up about it.

Oh, and if it is any consolation, I think Citalopram is one of the ADs that takes a few weeks to 'build up' in terms of full effectiveness and when they take you off it they shouldn't just stop you taking them, it should be phased out over a period of time - so if you start feeling worse they can phase it back up if necessary.

Shish, I only have 1DD so can't really comment on the change from 1 to 2 DCs but how much sleep are you getting? PND and sleep deprivation are, I believe, linked. Can your DH help out at nights (expressed feeds if you are BFing perhaps?) or can he look after the kids while you nap? If it is any consolation, although I only have 1 DC it was about 4 months I'd say before I felt 'properly' bonded.

i seem to hit real highs and lows. This morning I felt like I had hit rock bottom and now I feel like I'm more on top of things. I know it doens't really make sense.

I think we're both scared of what will happen when I stop taking them

The moose is speaking sense!

Shish any so-called friend who would abandon you in times of trouble or just because you are seeing a counsellor is no friend at all really. I'm sure your current friends wouldn't behave so badly towards you.

Am a bit at your DH though. Does he have a clear understanding of what PND actually is and how it is treated? Having more me time is great, but PND is a medical illness that needs proper treatment as well. Perhaps you could look at the PND support websites together so that he gains a better understanding of what you are going through and why.

So many people are anti ADs, but in truth they are just a medicine that rebalances the brain chemistry. Yes, they can be overprescribed, but conversely there are some cases, such as PND, when they are a necessary part of treatment.

I'm thinking of still going to see the GP that I had booked the appointment with on 6 July. She is really nice and showed a lot of compassion and understanding when I got a bit tearful at my postnatal check.

I spoke to HV briefly after my visit to GP and she said I should take the AD's but didn't say anything more than that. She's coming to see me on Tuesday.

Dh is being supportive but thinks I should try and avoid the AD's. He's encouraging me to have some more me time.

Stickylittlefingers I do have nice mum friends but I feel that they will get fed up of me and I will loose them as friends. It's happened to me many years ago when I was a student. My best friend stopped talking to me when I told her I was struggling and I was seeing a councellor

shish - it is hard looking after two! But there are so many advantages to having a brother/sister as moosemama has pointed out, and ime it's one of the best things to watch them play together or see them hug the other when one is upset etc etc.

But I don't think you are really arguing with that - more that you had learnt to cope with one and two is a struggle and therefore logically... But it IS the chemicals in your brain and not your rational self talking and that's NOT your fault in any way at all. I know you're worried about your relationship with DH, but do you have a good mum friend you can chat to? I found a "mum" neighbour down the road so helpful to me - often I didn't even talk about how I was feeling, but she just cheered me up anyway once I realised I was just another Mum and having totally normal Mum type thoughts and feelings...

Perhaps look around MN for who might be close by?

I was on Citalopram, they are one of the gentlest ADs you can get. When have you got to go back? She should have suggested counselling. Maybe you could try your HV again as she seemed to be on the ball this morning. She may be able to help you to push for some counselling.

I'm sure she would rather you called her back than carried on suffering, after all its her job to take care of you and your children.

She gave me Citalopram Hydrobromide 20mg. She just gave my the prescription and asked me to come back. She didn't even mention counselling.

I won't tell if you won't.

Oh there I go -outed myself!! I am backtoblue !!

ds1 is 2.7 and ds2 is 15 weeks.
I am finding it difficult & feel I can't manage to get out with the 2 of them. I was depressed after the birth of ds1 & thought it wouldn't happen this time but I am struggling!

I have bonded with ds2 but it's an ongoing process & wasn't a rush of love as some people describe. I was the same with ds1 -I get the rush of love for him every day now!

I have different issues to you & have been advised to go on ADs. I took them with ds1 & they can be extremely helpful.

What you are feeling is not abnormal, SO many women experience varying degrees of lowm mood/lack of confidence/PND- but you are not enjoying your baby yet & maybe AD will help you to do so.

Shish I was on them initially for 6 months, but then my Dad was taken seriously ill so I stayed on them for a year in the end. Which ADs have you been given? They aren't usually difficult to come off, there is just about a fornight to four week weaning off period (depending on which ones you have) when you lower the dosage bit by bit.

I can't recommend counselling highly enough though, I am sure that's what made the difference for me and I felt so much better within a few weeks of starting the ADs and going to weekly counselling. In the counselling sessions you would be able to verbalise and let out all the emotions you are having about your family and about ds2 without judgement or recrimination and sometimes just talking about it all with an impartial third party helps you to get your head straight. Counsellors aren't there to tell you what to do or to judge, they are there to listen and if necessary gently guide you in the right direction.

I can't remember exactly when handling the two on my own started to feel easier. I think it was a gradual thing. It comes back to confidence really, you have to trust you can do it. Perhaps you could try having some days when you aim to do it by yourself but make sure someone is available to pop round if you feel you can't cope. Maybe just one day a week to begin with, or starting with just a morning or afternoon. There is nothing wrong with having help when you have a young baby. My Mum still pops round most days, sometime because I feel like I need help and sometime just for a coffee (having another adult to speak to after being in the house with two toddlers for a few hours can make all the difference).

I am just reading a book called 'What Mothers Do' which addresses precisely this problem. Historically women didn't raise children alone, all the women in the family did it together as a team effort and there was always plenty of advice, support and respite available within that circle of family. Its only relatively recently that women have been told they should be able to do it on their own and to be honest that is absolute rubbish, the more people around that love and care for little ones the more secure and settled they will be.

You should read the book actually its here on Amazon (I'm reading it while feeding dd) its all about what mothers actually do for their children, the way society views mothers and why it is that so many of us end up feeling negative about our achievements. I'm finding it really affirming and empowering, it reminds me to remind myself that I'm actually doing one of the hardest jobs in the world.

Also, don't be fooled by how well other people seem to be coping. The number of times I've made assumptions about other Mum's and how they are so cool, calm and organised only to find out later that they are only human and have problems and worries just like me. You don't know how often their Mum's/Grans/Sisters/Friends/DHs help them out. Everyone needs help sometimes.

Backtoblue how old are your ds's?? Do you feel like you're finding it hard to cope? And difficult to bond with ds2? I'm just worried that what I'm feeling isn't normal.

Moosemama when did you find juggling the 2 ds's by yourself got easier? I feel like I lawys need help if I'm gonna have them both by myself for the whole day and yet other people don't seem to need it.

I called my named HV this morning who pushed me to make an emergency appointment with the Gp. Just saw someone - although not who I wanted to see. She immediately put me on anti-depressents. I feel like such a failure and scared that I won't be able to come off them. How long were you on them for moosemama?? She said they're normaly taken for at least 6 months.

With ds1 I coped without even seeing the GP and all got better around 6 months. I went today cos I'm worried that I'm not being fair on my family. I've just spoken to my mum and she says I should take them as she's worried that I'm being so negative toward ds2. I'm going to speak to dh when he calls me at lunch. Not so sure that he'll be so keen for me to take them..

Backtoblue is right, you definitely need to keep on at either the HV or your GP, you shouldn't have to wait when you are feeling so low. They have a duty of care and are trained to look out for and act quickly with PND.

There are lots of threads about the joys of having two or more dcs as well Shish. Remember, I was where you are a few years ago and now I have 3 and absolutely love it!

Bonding doesn't always happen in an instant, its a myth perpetuated by the media that just serves to make many of us feel that we are somehow not natural if we don't get that elusive rush of love the second we meet our babies.

As I said yesterday, not only do you have a chemical/hormonal imbalance that will affect your mood and feelings, you are getting to know a whole new little person, it takes time.

Obviously you have had years to get to know ds1 and build a strong bond with him, plus it is inevitably true that you have less to do and more time to spend just 'being' with your first child and this tends to make bonding easier and quicker. It doesn't mean it won't come with ds2 it just means it will take a bit longer that's all.

I hope today does get better for you, try to take it easy and not be so hard on yourself. Have you heard from your named HV? If not, give her a ring, she may take it more inclined to take it seriously and do something to help if you speak to her on a low day rather than on a day where you have called up all your reserves and are coping slightly better.

Hello shish -
I read your posts yesterday but didn't get round to write a reply.

Sorry that you are feeling low. I have just had my 2nd ds and am experiencing some of the feelings that you describe. My mood is up & down and I have touched on depression (again!) since having ds2.

It is really hard! I know the feeling of wanting your "old" life back and missing the relationship I used to have with ds1 when it was just us (& daddy).

Do you have friends & family around? You do sound depressed and I think your GP/HV would prioritise you more if they knoew how you are really feeling.

It is SUCH early days remember. All that you had learnt & the routine that you had established has been shaken about again by another baby. But it will all settle back down again with time & you'll no doubt look back just as you did with ds1.

Confidence is the key - remember there is no rule book & no-one does it all the "right" way & you can't do it the "wrong" way. Just your own way as you can manage from day to day, hour to hour.

And you being happy is the key to alot of it! It's not that you have to do everything right for your 2 ds; you just need to feel that you are managing and have the knowledge that it will all get easier & you'll reap the rewrds. If you feel strong that is when it actually feels like you're doing it "right" and things are ok.

I'm rambling a bit because I'm sort of talking to myself!

Would you consider anti-depressents? have you had them before?

All the htreads on here about the advantages of having only 1 dc really aren't helping...

I just can't bond with ds2 in the way that I have with ds1. I have woken up this morning wishing everyone would disappear apart from ds1

I was cuddling ds1 this morning and he said to me 'give baby a cuddle mummy'. He loves his baby brother so much - why can I not feel that bond???

I'm so afraid this is going to affect my marraige. I don't always feel this bad. I was a bit better yesterday. But I feel like I've hit rock bottom today. I hope the day gets better..

Shish if you haven't heard from your named HV by the end of today, call and ask to speak to her yourself. Try to arrange a home visit if you can, as you said, you need to speak to her in private.

Please don't be hard on yourself as Dairymps said, its an illness that needs treatment and absolutely not your fault in any way shape or form.

You will get highs and lows and some days will feel worse than others.

The Meet-A-Mum idea is quite a good one if you feel up to going along to one, if not I found just going for a long walk in the sunshine could lift my mood for a while.

These links might help you find somewhere or alternatively you could find support from other mums who are going through the same thing on their forums:

post natal org uk

rc psych info page and links

meet a mum

shish - Glad you spoke to your HV.Is there any way your 'named' hv can get you an earlier docs app? Sometimes they can...

I had some pnd, quite late on actually. I just wanted to say, this really is not your fault! It is a very common chemical imbalance in your brain caused by the hormonal changes of pregnancy and birth.

You are a great mum, the fact you are seeking help for the illness shows that you care massively. Chin up, you will come out the other side, promise.

Oh, I would ask the go about counselling too, AD's work best along side some counselling

I spoke to the Hv today, but she had a very long que of people waiting and there's no privacy. She says I have some ond and is going to speak to my named HV to speak to me. In the meatime I will have to muddle through until I can see my GP. I really want to snap out of this and I now realise that it may not just go away this time. I keep hitting highs and lows and they seem to go either end of the extreme. She also suggested support groups like Meet-A-Mum-Association.

Yes it will. It just takes time. You are getting to know a new little person and adjusting to a new family dynamic at the moment. It will all come in time. If you take care of yourself and get yourself well the rest will follow.

I was a little bit the same when dd was first born, I couldn't imagine managing to leave the house with a baby, pushchair and two children, after all, before she arrived I had a hand for each child. But, I did get used to it. She is 23 weeks today and we have been all over the place together. Haven't attempted the bus with all 3 yet, but I will during the summer holidays if I'm not going to be stuck in the house for 6 weeks.

I think all new parents, be it a first born or subsequent child, worry and fret about how they are coping or going to cope to some extent. I just gets easier as you go along.

Good luck at baby clinic today, let me know how you get on with the HV.

I had become so confident as a mum of 1 (although it took a few months) and just the opposite as a mum of 2. Will that confidence ever come back??

Will check back tomorrow then Shish to see how you got on with the HV.

WowOoo how did you come out the other end?? You've all been so kind..

Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. It really helps to know that I'm not the only one and that you can come through the other end. That's probably one of the scariest things - not being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm taking ds2 to be weighed tomorrow so will see which HV is there. Some of them are more than useless - the odd one is ok. I will let you know how I get on x

Shish am so glad you made the call. Ridiculous that no-one can see you for nearly two weeks. You could try speaking to your Health Visitor in the meantime though. I don't know what yours are like, mine were useless when I had ds2, but this time they have been great and will book a home visit to come and have a chat if you need one.

Of course you can keep in touch. I don't have a profile page, but am around - usually on the postnatal Jan 09 thread if you need to find me. I will keep checking back here for you as well if you like.

Moosemama you have literally made me well up. I have just got off the phone to the doctor's but I can't get an appointment for nearly 2 weeks - which I have taken. I guess I will just have to muddle through in the meantime. I just can't wait to get to a stage when I can relax within myself. can I keep in touch with you please???

Oh Shish, please don't be so hard on yourself. I had a really helpful Mum and lovely DH who was working from home when I had DS2 and I still got PND. Its nothing you've done or haven't done its an illness and it just needs treating that's all.

I really think you should go and see your GP asap, or if you aren't happy to do that, call your Health Visitor for a chat or to arrange a home visit, as they are also trained to help with this sort of thing and will be able to advise you.

Do you ever get to take a break from being Mum? I know your baby is only 13 weeks but think of that in terms of months and you are overdue for a break, even if its just an hour or so to either go for a walk in the sunshine, go shopping or even have a bubble bath and an early night. You might be a mum to two little ones, but you are still you and you need and deserve time to yourself every now and again. Honestly, it will help you to be a better mum.

It will get better, I promise, but you need to get some help from your GP or Health Visitor and take some time for yourself.

I know and understand exactly where you are coming from with the wishing you had stuck with one child, I've been there myself but your DSs are going to be great friends - a real little team and one day you will be watching them play and realise you can't imagine ds2 not being there. My two boys have a slightly smaller age gap, they fight like cat and dog sometimes, but they adore each other as well and are practically joined at the hip. Having a brother will be such a precious thing to your ds1, someone to share holidays and playtimes with, whisper to after lights out, someone to play board games and football with, a best friend who is always there. Try to keep this in your head and look to a happier future. It will get better, just look at me, 5 years ago I was where you are, now I have 2 gorgeous boys and a beautiful dd.

Please book that appointment or make that call.

Wishing you all the best.

I've been there. Go easy on yourself.
Great that your actually getting out and making the effort to go to mother and baby club too.

I burst into tears when a woman was very kind to me in supermarket carpark when ds1 was teeny. Go easy on yourself. You're bound to have moments of regret, but remember that when your ds's are playing happily together and you can ahve 5 mins peace that it was all worth it.....I live in hope!

Thank you all for your support. I'm just really scared. I feel so low and I just want to be happy. I just keep wishing we had stuck with what we had - I'm such an evil person. It's nothing against ds2 but want to be able to feel like I can function. This morning he sicked up milk during his feed at mother and baby club and I just burst into tears.

I have all the help I dould ask for so I really shouldn't be feeling like this.

Its still really early days for you to get used to being a family of 4. Change always comes with a period of adjustment. I was the same after ds2 was born, we were so used to being a tight knit little family of 3, able to give all our attention and time to ds1 etc that it somehow just didn't feel right having to share myself out. I remember sitting and crying because I felt like I'd let ds1 down and ruined his little world and then I'd cry all over again because I felt disloyal and a terrible Mummy to ds2.

I was diagnosed with depression when ds2 was 6 months and to be honest I wished I'd got help earlier. I did go onto anti depressants, despite initially being very anti, but I also went for counselling, which I feel was the greater factor in my recovery. It was nice to just have an hour a week that completely belonged to me, when I could say anything I wanted and vent if I needed to without feeling judged. I used my weekly appointment as an excuse to put on some make-up, do my hair and dress in something other than 'Mummy' clothes as well. I felt so much better after a few weeks, I really was left wondering why I hadn't done it sooner.

I have now just had dd1 (22 weeks tomorrow) and with lots of help and support (both on and off MN) it looks as if I might be fortunate enough to avoid pnd this time around, even though going from 4 to 5 seems like a bigger jump.

Please go and see your gp and talk through your options. They will probably get you to answer a quick questionnaire to find out how low you really are and take it from there. You absolutely do not have to take ADs if you don't want to. I know some people feel there is a stigma attached, but no-one else needs to know and the end result is worth it imho. Your GP can refer you for counselling or you can go private (you can find a private therapist on the BPS website here.)

Good luck.

There is nothing wrong with ADs, if you need them, you should take them. And it certainly sounds like you could use a bit of help.

It probably won't even be for long that you'll be on them. Just to help you get over the 'hump', so to speak.

I will be in a similar position as you in a few months time and I'm dreading it.

Ds1 who is 3 is already getting bored of me not being able to run, jump, lift him in air and give him constant attention but I'm just going to be doing my best and will prob be on MN like you!

Your little one is so little it's tough anyway.

Can only sympathise and suggest you keep focussing on when things will settle and get easier.

Life isn't fair. but I would try not to feel guilty about it. You're not doing ANYTHING that's unfair on your family. Try talking to yourself in a different way, more positively and assertively. (I'm saying this when I have been telling myself how crap I am at being able to keep on top of housework!

Hope you're able to get a bit of help. Could you afford a cleaner, babysitter, a day out by yourself in not to distant future etc etc.

Good luck. i'll be asking you for tips soon.

Speaking from experience if you have pnd it is best to get it diagnosed and treated. I didn't really want antidepressants either but it made me so much more functional and able to be the mummy my dc needed.

There are also self-help type things, talking therapy etc. You owe it to your fabulous dc to find out what is wrong and sort it out - it could just be that you are exhausted, and no wonder!

I'm constantly tired and stressed and it feels like things will never seem right as a family of 4. It's not fair on my family when I feel like this. Dh is very supportive, but I'm sure he's gonna get fed up of me soon.

I can remember feeling very anxious in the early months with ds1 but I thought things would be different this time and I would be able to hold it together - I have to. I have a whole host of different worries this time and I'm finding it so hard to relax at times.

But you wouldnt have to take AD's if you didn't want to, would you? I have no personal experience of PND but surely there might be a chance they could point you towards some other support isn't there?
FWIW i'm a terrible mother too today! I've come on MN to try and take my mind off all my failings! It's such hard work and a massive responsibility that it's bound to get on top of you, so try not to beat yourself up, you're human and normal and i'm sure you're a fantastic Mum, otherwise you wouldnt be bothered either way.

Why don't you want anti-depressants? Medication isn't the only way to treat depression but it is an effective way if managed correctly and your GP will do that. They are NOT going to to turn you into a zombie or a drug addict. It does sound to me like you're struggling with anxiety a bit and just articulating that to somebody else may all you need to get those worry demons to back off a bit.

I'm scared of speaking to the GP as I'm afraid they will diagnose pnd and put me on anti-depressents which I really don't want..

Having two little ones is tough! Doesn't matter what help you have or how 'good' they are.

Don't run yourself down - your boys love you and you are their world - that doesn't mean you have to be bouncy tigger super mum every single day!

I agree you should chat to your GP or HV about this - and also your partner? You may need a bit of extra support to help you feel happier right now but that doesn't mean you are failing your boys or doing anything wrong. Sometimes being a mum is harder than at other times, nothing you've done or not done - but this too shall pass.

you sound like you have a touch of pnd to me.
you're baby is only 13 weeks old-you need to be kind to yourself. have you spoken to your dr about how you feel?

Ds1 just turned 3 last week and ds2 will be 13 weeks this week. Some days (like saturday) I can be quite confident with both of them. Other days, like today, I just want to cry and I feel like everything is just wrong and I can't enjoy ds2 (or ds1!). I shouldn't complain cos ds1 is in daycare and ds2 has settled himself into a routine that fits in quite well around ds1 for the moment until he starts pre-school (far from home) in september.

So why do I feel like this?? It's really not fair on the boys to have a mummy that feels so low. I really wish I could enjoy being a mother of 2 like I did a mother of 1. I just feel like my head is all over the place and my confidence keeps dropping. I thought I would be more settled within myslef by now..