out of school play with muslim friends

[bluecow208]

we are not a muslim family (not an anything family really!) but some of DS's friends at school are. I am delighted about this as i deliberately chose a school with lots of different cultures.
He chose friends for his party (5th)and not one of them even replied let alone came. He was really disappointed.
After chatting with other friends he decided that X can't come to parties because 'he's a muslim'. "why can't muslims come to play mum?"
can anyone explain the ettiquete (or spell it)? I am choosing to believe that it is misunderstanding rather than rudeness but it sends mixed messages to my son when i tell him colour should not matter when choosing friends but he gets the opposite back

[MorocconOil]

My DC go to a community school which is 80% Muslim. We have the party and after school issues you describe.

Lots of the children go to Mosque after school so can't play at friends. Some of the more devout would not play anyway.

They don't celebrate birthdays either. My DSs have friends(a brother and sister) who are from a devout family, and their Mum has said(very nicely) that they can not come to the DC's parties. However they have come to play occasionally.

Some of the less devout have come to their parties, and I have asked their parents about foods they need to avoid.

It has been really hard for the DC as they have been upset when children just don't turn up. We are used to it now(DS1 is 8), and I can see there are many advantages to the situation. The DC are not always going to parties, and demanding friends play every night after school, which I would find a real drag.

[MorocconOil]

Also, I have had phases of feeling the DC are being left out as they are non-muslim but now really don't think this is the case. I think alot of it is just about different cultures doing things differently.

[nikos]

This is really interesting. We had one muslim boy who was invited to ds party and he was the only one whose parents didn't phone and he didn't show on the day. Is this because Muslims don't celebrate birthdays? Didn't know that. Could still have phoned though.

[MorocconOil]

I think you are right about that Riven. I still try to make an effort with the devout children in my DSs classes by always saying hello etc. Even if their parents don't want to make an effort with us I will with them.

It is a minority who don't want to integrate.

I think the school should be doing more to make the parents integrate.

[MorocconOil]

Sorry, to encourage not 'make' the parents integrate.

[wilbur]

We have had a number of non-replies to party invites that were simply to do with the fact that the invited child's family's first language was not English and they had no idea what RSVP on the bottom of an invitation meant. Obv that is not going to be the case in British Muslim families, but it is worth making your invites v clear that you would like a response either way. Tough on your ds that some of his friends were no shows on his b'day - I would def try to approach a few of the mothers and test the water as to how they feel about playdates etc - they may be keen to find a way for their children to have non-Muslim friends too, but are unsure of the etiquette themselves.

[newgirl]

this is very interesting

my dd has a friend at school who i think is muslim and i invited her to my dd's party and they did not reply - i dont know the mother though - she is dropped off by a childminder

[dirtygertiefromnumber30]

our school is 60% muslim and we have similar issues with parties / after school play.

One of the muslim boys that ds is very friendly with has a lovely mum who i get on well with. I have offered for her son to come and play but she has explained that her MIL (who she lives with) would absolutley forbid it. She says that much of her generation is very relaxed and would like to integrate more but the 'elders' are controlling and totally discourage it.

Dont know if this is typical in general or just for her family.

[bluecow208]

i didn't know about the birthday thing - but then that's why i need to meet familys with a more 'riven' attitude. i'm really ignorant about loads of cultures but at least i'm trying!
not sure how to catch the parents though. ds's teacher actualy pointed me out to one of the mums in the play ground and i did my most approachable smile and wave expecting her to come over (and say thanksbut no!!) and she blanked me and walked off. For the greater good i'm imagining she was shy or maybe didn't speak much english. On the plus side at least our kids are getting on! hopefully by their generation it just won't be an issue (she says weaving flowers in her hair and hugging trees maaan)

[MorocconOil]

I've had that impression too gertie. I find it very worrying. I can see why they want to preserve traditions and values, but there must be some way of doing this as well as embracing British culture. People have said that their elders despise the celebrity culture and think it is typical of many people in Britain. I hate the celebrity culture as well. and certainly don't aspire to it.

I worry for the future and think the only way forward is for more integration between different cultures/religions.

[DJCod]

am mat eof mine in laaaaaaaaaaaardnon said this too

no mixing at all

[dirtygertiefromnumber30]

tis worrying. i agree. I hope that youre right bluecow - in that by their generation it will be different, but i fear not. Many of these children are 3rd / 4th generation and it doesnt seem to be much better.

[MorocconOil]

There is definitely mixing going on during the school day.

Any mixing after school requires the parents making more effort, and challenging some of our prejudices.

[GrapefruitMoon]

This is interesting as we have muslim neighbours (kids go to different school to ours though) and have noticed they rarely have other children around and if they do they are generally part of the extended family. I just put it down to the fact that the mother worked and they usually went to gparents after school...The dd did come to a party here though and did have a party herself the following year and invited classmates (and dd).

Like all things, I expect there will be variations from family to family and "rules" tend to get relaxed with each generation since the original move from the home country...

[edam]

That's a crying shame, poor ds! And bloody rude IMO - whatever their reasons for not coming, they could at least have had the manners to tell you (I'm assuming at least SOME of the parents can, or know someone who can, read English - how the hell do they manage with homework and letters from school if not?)

[FranSanDisco]

My two are at a local primary with a fair % being Muslim. The more devout ones never reply to invitations but then there are some Africans who do the same and some White British.

Dd's best friend was a Muslim girl who was allowed to come to play because her mum knew me well and was a British Muslim. Dd also went to her house. I hate to say it but to be honest the only trouble dd and ds get is the Muslim vs non-Muslim divide. You can't play etc because you're not Muslim. I tell them to look for the similarities and not the differences in people. I think as a devout Muslim it is what you eat, drink and breathe and children can't help but feel different. My dd wanted to wear a scarf at one point to "fit in". I said OK but she decided against it

[LadyMuck]

We notice that it does depend on the mothers. We have a devout Muslim family is ds1's class, who to a certain extent can make our lives difficult as she is very strict with the dietary laws etc, but having ensured that we are all very aware of what our son can and cannot have, is fine with playdates, parties etc. She also goes into school and takes assembly and shares about her faith which is great.

At the opposite extreme we have another Muslim boy in the same class who will only go to muslim parties and we will never get an RSVP. The mother doesn't mix with the rest of the mothers, though we try to include her.

We've definitely learnt more about the Muslim faith from the first family.

[msappropriate]

all the turkish and somali muslims I know celebrate birthdays and do lots of after school play date things. So it may be that different nationalities do things differently rather than just the religion.

[Heated]

We're long time friends with lovely Muslim family who we met when we lived in Yorkshire. Their boys came to our house to play and we went to theirs to celebrate their boys' parties.

Both parents are professors and their two eldest 'boys' are both at uni, one training to be a doctor and one doing something complicated with Maths at Cambridge. Both have volunteered in the community too.

when they were young, we used to take the boys & dad swimming, play football etc but their dad did say he was disapproved of by some other Muslims at mosque and those he used to play football with for being so integrated.

They were in a tough position really because they were targeted by the white scum burgling family nearby until we came on the scene. He wouldn't report them because of the feared backlash yet he scared off scum burgling family who broke down our door when we were on holiday. Brave man.

[QueenMeabhOfConnaught]

We have had the same problem at the dc's school - the Muslim children's parents just didn't reply to invitations. Don't know what can be done about it, unfortunately.

[MorocconOil]

As an individual parent you can just keep trying to make an effort to be friendly and open. There are some 'veiled' mums at our school who would just walk past me, but I always call out hello to them. It's important for the children to see the adults communicating despite their differences.

Primary schools could be doing more about the problem. While children are young it is easier to influence them and encourage integration. Not sure how they can do this though. Our PTA is trying to organise events to get different groups of parents together. It's not easy though.

[FrannyandZooey]

It sounds like we are lucky - we live next door to a Muslim family and the ds sometimes comes round to play - I have never felt they segregated themselves from the other non-muslim children on the street who all tend to play out together

they also give us presents and a card at Christmas! despite not celebrating it themselves