Do GPs all treat new mums like idiots or is it just me?

[ChubbyScotsBurd]

OK, so I'm fairly well educated and I like to think of myself as practical. I have a good grasp of biology and I don't panic easily. I'm a vet and so I have a modicum of knowledge about mammalian physiology.

I went to see a GP yesterday because my LO is constantly uncomfortable, windy, snuffly and pukey. As he's growing and feeding well the HVs are very dismissive, but I know something's bugging him and anyone who spends any time with him comments on how miserable he seems to be. I said to the doc when I arrived that I realise he isn't ill and I know he's not going to die of wind but it is causing a problem for both him and me, and it seems to be worsening with time. I'm sometimes struggling to get one straight hour of sleep in a 24 hour period now. I just wanted someone to discuss it with who would take it seriously.

Before I'd even finished speaking she'd started dismissing him as "an active baby, they're hard work these ones" (he's 7 weeks old, we're not talking gymnastics lessons here). Babies can apparently be uncomfortable "for a number of reasons, like wind, nasal congestion or even just growing" . But not to worry, she totally understood because her sister had a baby who was miserable in February . When I said that breastfeeding was the only thing which offered any respite for him she warned me that overfeeding could make him worse.

Eventually I asked her if reflux could be causing his trouble and she sort of vaguely said it was probably involved but it would get better at 4 months when he starts getting solids ... at which point I realised I was wasting both of our time and left.

Am I just being paranoid?
Am I expecting too much?
Does he actually have to have a limb hanging off before he matters?
Do I have to threaten sleep-deprived suicide before anyone gives a toss?

[MadLabOwner]

It isn't just you, trust me. A lot of HVs and docs just seem to churn out the same old twaddle about waiting for them to grow out of it - I suppose from their point of view the problem will go away or be more identifiable in time, and you will normally not bother them again.

I was told by my HV to go and see the doc as my DD had a prominent vein between her eyes - I didn't want to as I couldn't see the point as it would either go away in time or not, with no help from the doc. However, the HV kept asking me if I'd been yet, so I eventually went to the doc - he treated me like an over anxious PFB mother. I did explain forcefully that (a) it wasn't my idea to come and (b) I had a degree in cell and molecular biology so please don't patronise me! Overall, a pointless waste of a morning for everyone and one I won't be repeating!

If I'm lucky enough to have a second child, think I won't be troubling the HV or doc overmuch!

[tissy]

my dd was similar at that age, and a breastfeeding counsellor was a great help-

one piece of advice that I recall was not to swap sides too often when feeding- apparently too much foremilk can cause wind and discomfort, so I was told that I should feed dd from one side only at a time, and let her carry on sucking at an apparently empty breast. This did seem to help, but of course, I tended to feel somewhat lopsided!

This phase did pass....

[ChubbyScotsBurd]

It's just so depressing that they A) don't care and B) know jack shit about nothing much.

As for babies experiencing discomfort due to growing ... well, you learn something new every day. I wonder what the evolutionary reason for that is.

[tissy]

mostly they do care,chubbyscotsburd, and they know a lot about a lot of things.

What do you expect the GP to do exactly?

They see a child who is clearly growing, so it's unlikely to be a serious malabsorption problem. If he hasn't developed aspiration pneumonia, it's not likely to be serious reflux.

All babies are snuffly- it gets better when they grow.

I am a doctor, and I work in a hospital setting, know plenty about human physiology, BUT I was and still am an amateur mum! I recognise a lot of what you're going through. I spent hours sobbing because my baby would scream a lot of the time. I couldn't put her down for three months as she would scram and scream till I picked her up.

My dd had asthma when she was smaller, probably as a result of her airways being tiny, and her being somewhat atopic. I spent several days in hospital with her, even when I felt she was well enough to be at home, me being a doctor and all...

the very wise old paediatrician said that he was treating my dd just the same as if I was a bus driver- me being a doctor was irrelevant. Don't set too much store by your knowledge- it all disappears (along with rationality ) when you become a Mum. I remember being mortified when we called an ambulance to ship dd to hospital- I thought she was choking to death one night- maybe had inhaled something- it was croup- she was better by the time we arrived in A+E, and was sitting up waving to the staff .

It's a rough time, the first few weeks with a baby, but it will get better.

[BecauseImWorthIt]

(With apologies to all of the lovely, lovely medics on this board!)

Q. What's the difference between God and a doctor?

A. God doesn't think he's a doctor.

Always bear this joke in mind when dealing with doctors, especially those you are referred to in hospitals.

When I was in hospital prior to having DS1, the SHO came to see me and explained quite lengthily what was going on and what signs they were looking out for, etc etc. He was very pleasant and didn't patronise me at all. However, just when he had finished, dh arrived. I summarised what the SHO had said, at which point the SHO said, in a tone of great surprise, "Oh you were listening!"

[Charlee]

I took my DS for his 6 week check and said the the g.p (who was so old he could have been around in jesus time) that ds was very sicky and screamed constantly! he said that i needed to make bigger holes in his bottles and stop breastfeeding as he wasn't getting his milk fast enough

Needless to say we have never gone to him again!

[ChubbyScotsBurd]

tissy, I take your point. His problem is likely to be something I have to live with. Not certainly, but it's a possibility I am prepared for. What really narked me was that she didn't wait to hear me out, didn't listen to what I said and had reached a diagnosis of timewasting mother without a proper history. She made no effort to offer suggestions or reassurance and was obviously out of touch with current breastfeeding advice.

When I'm consulting I often deal with clients who have valid concerns about their pets but who I can't do much to help. However, everyone's happier if I let them finish their summary of the complaint, I listen to their concerns and I at least try to offer some advice and support. In some of these cases there really is something I can do to help, so it dosn't pay to dismiss them all out of hand - it's always worth me spending the time with them.

I had gone in the hope of discussing whether some sort of intolerance could be involved and also if his reflux could be treated in any way. But I was met with such vagueness when I tried to ask any questions I was onto a loser from the start. I'm not a fool, I'm not panicky, but we've struggled by for over a month with a progressive problem which means both my son and I are miserable and I'd hoped to be taken seriously.

[tissy]

which is why my first suggestion was a breastfeeding counsellor! No, most Gps don't know much about breastfeeding. Half of them are men for a start, and of the other half few will be experienced breastfeeders. The ignorance is not surprising, and not something that can be cured overnight.

From your OP, I didn't get "timewasting mother", I got "upset mother, probably exhausted", and I think that the GP was trying to be sympathetic and supportive. She may not have achieved that, true enough. Also, I'm all for spending time with patien

If you seriously feel that your baby is ill, then go and see another GP in the practice, and ask for a referral to paediatrics. Don't however expect that the paeds will know much about current breasfeeding advice, though .

Have you contacted a breastfeeding counsellor?

FWIW, my dd was sicky and miserable for about three months, but it did get better with time and decent breastfeeding support.

[tissy]

part of my second paragraph went missing:

I'm all for spending time with patients and listening to their concerns, but each GP only has about 10 mins per patient- not their fault.

[beanstalk]

Thought I'd add my opinion, fwiw! Chubbyscotsburd, I totally sympathise because I had the same with my DD when she was little. It is awful knowing there is something not right but not being taken seriously. And when your LO is constantly unhappy. made worse by not sleeping it just gets too much. I also agree with Tissy though, most GP's don't have the specialist knowledge on babies feeding to really help. I too found real support from a breastfeeding counsellor, also a cranial osteopath was more helpful than my GP! But definitely seek help from a bf counsellor, and if the first one you see doesn't fill you with confidence find another. It's frustrating that you have to work to get support but it is out there if you look for it.

[ChubbyScotsBurd]

Thanks folks. I'm waiting for an email from someone from the ABM and I've also been given the number of a recommended osteopath.

I know there are a million of us out there with miserable babies and I know he won't be like this when he's 18 but I also know something's definitelt not right. He's so lovely when he's having a good spell - ten minutes every couple of days! - he's cheery and talkative and smiley. Sadly the rest of his existence is just grunting, writhing, kicking and crying. Not nice and I just want to help him.

[neolara]

I know this is a bit off the point but I just wanted to give you a bit of hope for the future. My DS was exactly like yours. He seemed utterly miserable for most of the time when he was a tiny baby as he had terrible wind, threw up constantly and slept really badly. However, at 12 weeks things changed almost overnight and he started to perk up no end. His tummy issues seemed to resolve themselves and at last he started to be happy. At 8 months he is now an extremely cheerful soul! Sorry you had such an un-understanding GP. It's a bugger when you feel you aren't taken seriously,

[snowleopard]

It is not all of them, but it is a lot of them.

In their defence, they probably get mothers of pfbs bombarding them with minor worries all the time. In a lot of cases they are probably right to say, effectively, "don't worry and bugger off". On top of that, you want to be treated as if you are educated and can understand an adult conversation - but doctors probably don't want to be accused of going over people's heads.

On the other hand, when you are new mum it's amazing what a bit of genuine listening and reassurance can do - even if there's not much that can be done medically. And if they actually do listen, you get more of a feeling that if there actually was something wrong they would notice. And yes I have had a lot of that "new mum, must be a moron" attitude from medical staff, and other people too.

At our practice you can see several different doctors and I know which ones will give me the time of day and not talk to me as if I have a low IQ. (Oddly, they tend to be the female ones with families... funny that) So I just try to see the good ones. Also having a good, intelligent HV helps (if you are lucky enough to have that) - and talking to other mothers with brains can cheer you up.

[mummydoc]

chubby - i am a gp ( some of the time) and i do try very hard to be sympathetic , especially with mums of lo's , i often use personnel experiences to empathise, i always thoguht they would like it as it would show i had been thru it , but maybe that is not the case. unfortunately as a society we have medicalised a lot of social conditions people expect " a pill for all ills" - previously mothers had the wisodm of their mothers and grannies and neighbours etc to call on , but now everyone seems to take it to the doctor and understandebly gps get fed up. on the other hand you seemed very sensible by saying how you knew he wasn't ill etc , i would have had a sensible chat about feeding , winding, offered infacol or baby gaviscon and oodles of sympathy , and as you left probably thought ( poor woman ! ) , BTW go back and ask about baby gaviscon if problems continue or good old infacol - worked for my 2

[ChubbyScotsBurd]

mummydoc - your post made me laugh. In an attempt to convey that I wasn't imagining my baby to be miserable I said that others had also noticed he wasn't right. When she asked who I said that both my mum and my MIL had spent time with him and agreed that something's bothering him (my sister had colic so it's not like they've had 5 dream babies between them!). Doc's response was that we "were probably all bottlefed - grannies these days don't know what BF babies are supposed to be like" . Actually we were BF too - but I could see I was wasting my breath!

I don't want to come over as a complete medic-basher. My HV was great the one time I saw her, very pro-BF, pro-attachment, explained baby massage, very modern in her thinking. The nursery nurses who come the rest of the time are less helpful - leave him to cry is the best they can suggest. But that's about all they can do - other than sympathise! I've been helped a lot by some very, very good GPs over the years (esp the old ones, I think the years seem to help with the art of consulting, if not the science!). Mainly I hate being treated like a twit and I HATE spot diagnoses. Sniff.

On the plus side I've discovered Colief so that's keeping me occupied today - he is having a better day, too, so here's hoping, although logic tells me it's crazy for a mammalian baby to have a lactase deficiency I gather there's some research to say it helps some babies ... . And I have a sling in the post ... and if all else fails it's another day of his little life under our belts ...

It's horrible feeling like these precious weeks when he's changing so fast are being ruined though.

[Neverenoughhandbags]

I agree with Mummydoc-GPs are expected to know the answer to many everyday problems but truth is they are not trained in infant feeding-HVs sometimes pass the buck too rather than spend time with the Mum and baby which is exactly what their job is.
A parental instinct should never be ignored-but then again it helps to be clear if even in your own mind what you want from the consultation.
It does sound rather an unsatisfactory consultation but GP's job was to identify significant illness and a baby who is gaining weight is very reassuring.
I don't think growing hurts either!
Sounds like you have made progress in other directions so good luck!
Hope this isn't too waffly!

[Neverenoughhandbags]

Ouch it's hard to defend that GP's consulting style!
I'd be tempted to consult another or ask to see a paed-having said that, if it is reflux, gaviscon could make all the difference!

[mummydoc]

chubby - hope that it was smiley, fluffy friendly laugh and glad you are having a better day, my dds had infacol every feed, before nad after every feed and inbetween feeds i was convinced it worked but it was probably just something to keep me occupied while time and nature happened ! i once had a patient who aske dif i could prescribe something to make her stop eating food directly from the fridge ...err...i think that is called will power, i also have had a lady who said she was depressed ( i take this very seriously) on futher questionin git turned out she was fine just miserable as she didn't like the colour of her new kitchen cupboards ...err...when did i train to be an interior designer....hope this makes oyu laugh a bit more...btw am disgusted with your gps comment about you all being bottle fed an dhence that is why your mother knew nothing about bf babies...that is appalling.

[ChubbyScotsBurd]

It was a fluffy laugh, mummydoc - these are thin on the ground at the mo so are very precious - thank you!

I at your mad patients - I know a friend once had a request for viagra for someone's dog and I've been asked by clients to chew their dog's food for it while it was hospitalised

There's naught as queer as folk ...

[crokky]

ChubbyScotsBurd - my LO wanted to breastfeed all day and all night at that age. It was literally all he wanted to do, anything else, he would be extremely upset. I think it is fine for a baby to suck on an empty boob, mine did it all the time & found it comforting. If reflux is a factor, a small drop of bmilk going down his throat frequently (ie from a emptyish boob) should help (doubt would help serious reflux, but if it is minorish reflux, this should help). I thought you couldn't overfeed a bf baby? Perhaps you could try feeding laying down in bed? You may be able to get a bit of sleep that way? Something I didn't have, but would have for next time is a baby swing. I have heard quite a few people say that a baby who won't be put down etc sometimes will go in a swing. It might not work, though! Personally I don't think solids at 4 months will fix this. A lot of really crap advice is given by doctors and usually I check what they have said on the internet. Some doctors are excellent, though so it just depends on the luck of the draw!