Child abuse problem - long I'm afraid

[bigproblem]

I've changed my handle for this but here goes...

My grandfather abused my sister when she was younger. I don't know the detail of what he did but I know he tried it on with me (i'm the eldest) and possibly my other younger sister as well. My parents found out about this when we were young and made sure we were never on our own with him. My grandmother was mortified. My grandfather had mental problems ever since World War 2 (when he was shot down) and the loss of his daughter (my mum's sister) when she was 30 after the birth of her son (she died after eclampsia and a blood clot).

Anyway, to cut to the chase, my grandparents are still alive and I go regularly to visit them mainly to carry on seeing my grandmother who has Parkinsons and doesn't have much longer to go. I never leave the kids alone and I don't pay much attention to my grandfather and he is increasingly senile now anyway (he's over 80 now and the abuse happened over 20 years ago). However my sister has launched an all out attack on me and my husband and my mum and dad saying how dare we go there, who do we think we are! She also takes every opportunity to tell other members of the family what he has done. This doesn't affect me because I just let her get on with it her own way. However my mother (a recovering alcoholic) is finding her bitterness difficult to deal with (I imagine also the guilt it brings up in her) and I am REALLY worried that it is going to kick my mum back into drinking. THe doctor has said her liver is on its LAST legs and ANY more binges will almost certainly kill her.

SO the question is, what do I do? Shall I tell my sister to stop going on at everyone because of the health of my mum? I've told my mum to ignore it and let her get on with it but she can't and she called me in hysterics this morning saying she was depressed with it all being dragged up again and I know she is one step from drinking again but I don't want to seem insenstive with my sister and I don't really want to enter into too many discussions about it all myself as it is quite painful anyway.

Thanks for bothering to read that all...

[gscrym]

I don't know what to say but I hope everything works out.

Hugs

[CountessDracula]

bp maybe you could just ask your sister not to talk about it in front of your mother.

TBH I'm not surprised that she is angry with you all for seeing him - she probably feels that he has ruined her life and sees you all carrying on as if nothing happened - why should he still have access to a loving family when her life has been irrevocably damaged? That's how I would feel anyway.

[bigproblem]

yes CD I totally understand her point. I only visit because of my grandmother - my grandfather is her carer so she can't really leave him and as I said, she's on her way out anyway. My sister doesn't directly talk in front of my mother - she tells all the other family (we are a big family!) knowing that it will go back to my mum. I fear telling her to stop will be seen as me being trying to 'gag' her which I suppose it is, but not for my sake but my mum's. Her point is that my mum didn't do enough to protect her.

[coppertop]

Has your sister had any counselling since the abuse? It won't help your immediate problem but it may give her somewhere to talk it all through and to help her deal with her understandable anger.

[someonenotme]

My sister was sexually abused by my father and felt she had to tell me when I became pregnant. It all came out and my mother coped by going on to stay with my father and marry him!!
She did leave eventually. It has been incredibly difficult for my sister to deal with and she only didnt pursue it through the courts because of of my mother.
I do feel for your sister and she is the victim here and dealing with it the only way she knows how. I dont see my father and couldnt do so no matter how old, ill, frail etc he becomes. He's had 2 heartattacks since and tbh it doesnt bother me in the slightest. What he did was wicked and should not be forgiven.
It would devestate my sister if I ever choose to get in touch with him as well. I know she would never understand nomatter what the reasons.

[bigproblem]

coppertop, she did but a while ago. I asked her whether she wanted to have any more and she said no. She had got through all of it and now wanted to understand why no-one in our family was supporting her. I told her that we were but I can see why she thinks that way because in her mind, by visiting him we are 'condoning' his behaviour. When she originally bought up the claims, my parents didn't believe her and it was only when they were threatened with us being taken away that they reluctantly acknowledged it. What didn't help was that my youngest sister and I were so terrified by it all that we denied it had happened to us so therefore not backing up her claims. I have told her several times that she is probably the bravest of us all (even though I am the eldest!!) but I think very little happened to us compared to what happened to her.

[marialuisa]

Maybe your sister also feels that the family hasn't done enough to support her? you never lose the anger etc. you just live with it. It's quite possible that your sister doesn't feel particularly bothered about your mum's health and it does sound (sorry to be blunt) as if your mum is quite a damaged person herself?

Has your sister had any counselling at all? Could you suggest she starts talking to someone neutral. As an aside when I first started seeing a counsellor (in my teens) following abuse as a child I completely lost it with the world as I tried to work things out.

As you may have gathered my sympathy is all with your sister. It does sound as if she hasn't reached equilibrium (sorry, don't know how to describe it) about the situation. You may all see a doddery old man and think it was years ago, but she may still see him as a monster and 20 years on from the abuse I suffered I can still visualise scenes exactly. Sorry, throat closing over now

[bigproblem]

someonenotme - how devestating for you all. My grandfather has always flatly denied that he did anything - I don't believe him at all but I have a suspicion that my parents believe he did something but not to the extent that my sister is claiming. That may be the real problem I suspect. She knows I believe her but I think her real problem is with my parents and I think to be honest, if my mum were to go back to drinking and die, I don't think my sister would feel guilty because she believes that my mum is as bad as her father.

In reality, they both have severe mental problems ( my mum and grandfather) and I think I am slightly more tolerant having been the only one to visit my mum when she was admitted to a mental hospital and seen what it was like. Horrible place.

[someonenotme]

My father never denied it once it came out as he couldnt see what the big deal was. He later phoned my sis and asked her if she was happy now she'd destroyed the family!
Later he felt he'd done his time and told my mother people get sent prison for less time then she was witholding sex from him.

[bigproblem]

marialuisa - sorry to bring back old memories. Yes you have hit the nail on the head. The problem is my sympathies do lie with my sister but I really don't want my mum to die because of this all. I know my mum was hardly a mother to any of us and I went through years of hating her and she is an absolute nightmare to be around. I spent all my youth going to horrible bars and dragging her home when the barman would call and say she was lying pissed on the ground. But, once I went to that hospital it made me realise that she is actually ill - I mean really ill. I know that's no excuse, but she has severe problems - manic depression, split personality and alcoholism.

I've tried to explain this to my sister but obviously, she has no sympathy for it all. It's understandable but I can't stand by and do nothing.

[MeanBean]

BP what an awful problem for you. It does sound like your sister feels that she is not getting the support she needs from her family, but the problem with families is that they are made up of many people, and your grandmother needs support too. Your sister is free to use whatever means she wants to deal with what happened to her, but she doesn't have the right to dictate to the rest of the family how they deal with it ? she can?t control everyone else in this situation, much as she might want to.

I probably don't need to tell you, but your sister (or you) are not responsible for your mother's drinking - she is. I know that sounds harsh, but you can't make your sister responsible for the fact that your mother's liver is giving out and she might go on a binge. Alcoholics are very clever at manipulating people and making others feel guilty and responsible for their drinking. I know that's not very helpful when you've got an immediate problem, but what is your mother doing to ensure that she controls her drinking?

[bigproblem]

someonenotme - how horrible. I don't really know what to say but it must be terrible to discover someone you once loved was actually so hideous behind your back. I'm sorry and how horrendous when you were pregnant.

[sponge]

I know you're grandmother is ill but is there nay way that you could take her out occasionally rather than going to visit them. That way you could see her without having to have contact with your grandfather, whch your sister might see as a more supportive approach.

[webmum]

no advice really, just sympathy, it is a very difficult situation and I can understand what you're feeling as well as your sisters.

As someone suggested, maybe your sister would benefit from counselling, and probably so would your mother...but I ahve absolutely nbo experienc of these....I hope things will get better for all of you

[bigproblem]

sponge - that's not a bad idea. Actually, I was thinking now that I should visit them and just not tell my sister or my mum. I know that sounds devious but there's no way she could find out and perhaps I would be sparing her some pain.

Meanbean - my mum's drinking is rarely under great control. It's all spurred on by her depression. She's on all sorts of medication but even the strongest ones (the antipsychotics and the antabuse anti-drinking ones) seem to have little effect anymore. I know we are not responsible for her drinking - weirdly, I have never felt that way - but I know that we can to some degree control her mood. It's like living an artificial life sometimes but it does work.

[Blu]

Oh Bigproblem, I do feel for you, you seem to be carrying some quite big burdens, mainly on behalf of other people. To sound very stark and cold, YOU are not responsible for your mother's reactions to your sister's behaviour, and I wonder how far your valiant attempts to protect your Mum are actually fuelling your sister's sense of isolation and bitterness (despite your equal attempts to suport your sister) and so her attacks?
As you are the one thinking about this, and trying to sort it out, do you think it would help if YOU had counselling? You are in the middle of an absolute maze of other people's emotions - and i wonder what help you can get for your own? Especially as you are 'the one who got away' in terms of your grandfathers abusive behaviour? It mightbhelp give you strength and focus and strategies for getting through this. Good luck, you are brave and compassionate.

[Janh]

If your grandfather is increasingly senile might it be possible to arrange for your grandmother to go into a care home - he can't really be a very good carer if he's losing it anyway? Or does she want to stay at home with him? Or could he go into a care home and someone else become her carer?

I know this is just going around the central problem but it sounds as if your grandmother is the only one you get any sensible company from and it would be sad if you had to stop seeing her...did she know what your grandfather was doing to your sister? Is your sister angry with her too?

[bigproblem]

Janh, my goodness how I have tried to get her into a home. First of all, ALL the finances are tied up with my grandfather. My grandm never worked after she was a nurse in the war as she had kids and looked after them. When I mention the care home thing, she doesn't want to leave her own house and her own comforts. I've tried to get the nurses and health authorities involved but they are not interested. Whenever I go down I get worried as he does all the cooking and shopping now and he is useless. I asked the health authority to provide someone to come round every day - they said they would but he would have to pay for it. He wouldn't so I offered and they sent someone round and he refused to let them in. The health authority say they cannot force anyone to have care if they don't want it unless the situation is really dire and apparently, there are thousands who are far worse off than my grandparents so they are not considered a problem. Whenever someone goes round to see them they are always impressed with how my grandfather copes - he puts on a show and gets away with it. It drives me mad.

I don't think my sister is cross with my grandmother - we all love her as she played an important role in our lives because our mum was hardly about.

thanks to you all for all your support and help.

[MeanBean]

BP, I was going to suggest you kept your visits to your grandmother secret, but thought that might not be very PC! Also, the consequences of your sister finding out and feeling thoroughly betrayed could be horrendous.

I also agree with Blu - it sounds like you are in the middle of all this having to deal with everyone else's problems, while no-one is recognising yours. Being the "one who got away" may not be as bad as being abused, but it is no picnic. Could you talk to your sister(s) about it? You said earlier on that you still do not know exactly what went on ? in view of the fact that your sister has been going round the rest of the family telling them your grandfather abused her, I find it a bit surprising that she hasn?t talked to you and your other sister about this. And what about your other sister? How is she dealing with it? Can she be of any help?

[bigproblem]

Blu - yes, I read your comments and they make sense - I know I am not responsible and I don't want a big, happy, family because that's not going to happen. I just don't want this all to become worse than it is. I don't really want counselling - I could probably do with it but I don't want to start down that path. I used to get terrible panic attacks and agrophobia (still do slightly) and I managed to overcome those on my own and that has given me a lot of strength - the fact that I did it on my own. But thanks for your support.

[Janh]

Oh dear, bp God, how frustrating to go through all that and then be foiled by him - how is his general health?

If all the finances are under his control and he is going dotty then at some point someone is going to have get power of attorney, aren't they? Are you the only person taking any interest in them at all? What about your other sister?

[bigproblem]

meanbean, unfortunately, my other sister (the youngest) could warrant a whole thread on her own. She is very attractive and has had a string of boyfriends - she lives on the edge and has already had 1 abortion and 1 miscarriage. She is much closer to my other sister but would be no help to anyone as she is so involved with her own life and seems to be hell bent on doing exactly what she wants. She has my dad wrapped round her finger and although she is 25, she has no job but has her own flat as my dad entirely financially supports her. This is another bug bear with my sister who has very little money!

I think its my parents way of feeling less guilty by throwing everything they have at my youngest sister to make them feel better.

[bigproblem]

Yes Jan, I imagine at some point I will hopefully get power of attorney. I'm an accountant and as you can see, probably the only sane one in the whole family. It may go to my dad (also an accountant) or my mum's brother but he is in Australia so unless he came over it would be me or my dad. I just hope it will be soon. It may not be - I don't know how quickly old people deteriorate but I'm hoping it won't be long.

[marialuisa]

umm, would just like to say that there is absolutely no reason for Bigproblem's sister to go into the details. As far as the person who has been abused is concerned their anger etc. will be overwhelming whether they have been raped or "just" fondled. I have never gone into detail with my mum about what happened because bluntly, it's nothing to do with her. It's also quite hard to deal with parents etc when you have been in this situation because even relatively sane ones (such as my mum) will look for you to ease their burden of guilt etc , so the mother's reactions are quite typical, just more extreme because of her own illness.

Good luck with all this, you sound as if you have a lot on your plate.