End of tether with Ds's attitude - how can I get better results without shouting?

[voluptuagoodshag]

She is 11 going on 18. Every little discussion starts out reasonable but ends in me usually shouting because her sarky comments and attitude stink. I try really hard to be reasonable but I don't know how to get any respect from her. It's probably the same in households all over but I haven't noticed any other kids speaking to their mums the way she does to me, in front of other people. Have implemented cause and effect so if she is cheeky then she loses something (ipad time or grounded) which does work until the next time.

Her hitting puberty as I'm hitting the menopause doesn't help matters. I feel so lost about it. I'd love to have some nice mum/daughter time but it rarely happens :(

[voluptuagoodshag]

That should read dd not Ds.

[PortofinoVino]

Have implemented cause and effect so if she is cheeky then she loses something (ipad time or grounded) which does work until the next time.

I think you can only keep doing what you're already doing. But you could double up each time, so she loses it for longer, or take something additional away each time.

[Limpetsmum]

Sounds like you're a lovely mum. I have no advise as mine are a lot younger than yours but given your post on here, I think you must be doing a great job.
Happy Christmas.

[Nittyb]

I wrote a very similar post a few weeks ago & someone recommended a book 'Get out of my life ... but first take me & Alex into town '. I haven't read it all yet but would definitely recommend it , it's soooo reassuring. It's not just you, loads of us have the same problems, people just don't always talk about it, and they are usually lovely outside their own home !! I'm sure you're doing a great job x

[voluptuagoodshag]

Thanks folks. Kind words. Shall boldly soldier on ??

[Jenny1231990]

I can't really help as don't have children the age of your daughter could you try sitting with her and asking her why she speaks to you like she does? Would she like it if you spoke to her this way.
Maybe instead of getting cross and taking things away. Could you just walk away and sit in another room away from her for a bit? Maybe the change in your reaction will make her realise that it's upsetting you. Sorry I can't be of any help really. X

[Ferguson]

I was a (male) TA in primary schools for ten years, then two years in a TOUGH comprehensive. When I retired, I continued in schools on a voluntary basis, both secondary and primary at different times.

I always think, no matter how difficult or 'naughty' children are, they DON'T really want to be disliked by teachers or parents. But conflicts in their minds, in their ability to learn and do work in a satisfactory way, and an inability to cope with their emotions and the situations they find themselves in, prevent them from behaving in the way that adults want them to.

Just as toddlers go through the 'terrible twos' when they start to realize that they COULD influence people and their environment, but that adults PREVENT them from doing so, I think adolescents experience a similar, but more intense frustration with their life and current situation.

They might not express it in words, and may even feel embarrassed to find themselves behaving in the way they do, but without very sympathetic support and an understanding, loving relationship with someone - ideally two parents, but frequently not, so they may turn to a boyfriend/girlfriend - for comfort.

[Only today, in the News, their is concern about increasing numbers of school children 'self-harming'.]

So: - it would seem many of our young people are presently, not in a very happy place. They don't feel able to cope, with school, with exams, friendships, and adults; and all they get from people is sanctions, 'groundings' and other 'punishments', not the sympathy and understanding that they crave, and need, if they are to emerge undamaged at the end of their teenage years.

OP : If at all possible, I think you need to look back over the past five or eight years, and examine your relationship with DD: has she always been like this; if not, when did things change, and why? Are there things - subjects, activities, people - that she DOES enjoy, and participate in?

Conflict and fighting don't solve problems - on a family level, or on a global level. If we can't get on with our own children, what hope is there for the wider world?

[voluptuagoodshag]

I've been thinking about that. She was a dream baby. I think when DS came along 16.5 months later (a nightmare baby) things changed. I'm not the most maternal but I know that and try to do the best I can.

She is the most physically mature for her age in her class, despit not being the oldest. I have a theory that she is mentally not at the same stage as the physical changes in her body so it manifests itself in this way.

Her teacher at parents night said she was a model pupil, well thought of, helpful, polite, smart, considerate, not a bad word to say about her and that she was a credit to us. Made me very proud after I picked myself up off the floor.

In addition, I am currently going through the menopause and keeping a diary as suffering terribly from hormonal mood changes. Am taking stuff to try to iron out those wrinkles but certainly there are days when I don't cope as well as others.

Am conscious of the way I speak to her so am always trying to be polite but firm (treading eggshells sometimes). She is a strong minded girl (bit like me -ha) but her teacher said she was also happy in herself so I'm pleased that she is confident that way.

I have tried the why do you speak to me like that conversations. I've mentioned the great feedback from school and that she wouldn't dream of speaking to her teachers or other parents in that way. She doesn't give a logical answer really. But I read somewhere that parents are the bones that children cut their teeth on so maybe that's the case with her and I'm the juiciest bone.

[Ferguson]

Thanks for your reply - that is certainly encouraging, to hear nice comments from school.

And I assume her school work is pretty much on track. Is she Yr6, or has she started secondary and Yr7?

Does she do clubs or other activities? Music or singing is good, and can have social benefits.

Some years ago I was doing voluntary support with 'problem' families, taking kids to the park or beach at weekends. Also had 'drop in' sessions in a primary school, for children who had difficulties with lunchtime playground. They could come into this resource room, just to chat to an independent adult, or do craft or computer activities.

A Yr6 girl, considered rather a troublemaker by teachers, greatly surprised me when she told me she was a St John's Ambulance Junior Cadet, and that she loved being able to help people!

Keep me posted, and Good Luck to all of you.

[voluptuagoodshag]

Thanks. She is in P7. Her schoolwork is sound. She is very motivated and conscientious. Also has lots of activities and 3/4 good pals. She tends not to run with the pack of 'cool kids' which aim quite relieved about tbh.
Gosh reading all that she seems almost perfect, apart from the way she speaks to her mother

[mummytime]

I would say you are going through one of those difficult transitions, which is difficult for both of you. She is trying to pull away and be more independent, and you are struggling because she is still 'your little girl" and she doesn't act "mature". On top of that your house is full of raging hormones. Oh and she's your first.

I would suggest:

1. Buy the Alex book (you might buy the Queen Bees one at the same time, so are prepared for the other major issue).
   
2. Look after yourself. See you GP, maybe get some bloods done incase there are other issues (anaemia, thyroid...). Try vitamins etc. Have time out to destress. Maybe look at mindfulness or do exercise. Certainly timetable in "me time".
   
3. In a calm place work out what are your priorities: Drink, Drugs, Sex, Respect, Crime, Self care etc. Where are your boundaries? Maybe discuss this with her Dad too. What do you want her to be like at 18? 21? 25? 30? Work towards that goal.
   
4. You are not alone! Maybe talk to people you trust with older children. My DH finds this very reassuring - some may have "perfect" children, who cause no problems and get 1sts from Oxford. But plenty have their own crisis, and some will be reassuringly "worse" than yours.
   
5. Well brought up children are polite to other people and in front of other people - even if they can treat their family like shit sometimes.
   
   I am going through my 3rd pre-teen, and yet again they have suddenly forgotten how to use a bin or take washing up to the kitchen. Treating my sitting room like a very dodgey bar (dropping packets on the floor and leaving them there). Its only by looking at the older two that I have hope that things will improve.
   
   Something goes "wrong" with their brains in the pre-teen to teen years.