how wrong is it to let ds6 hit ds8 who keeps hitting him?

(25 Posts)
tigereye Sat 19-Jan-13 12:48:11

ds is 6 and is a very busy boy and in need of constant attention. exp smacks him when he looses his temper with him. ds who is 8 sees this all the time and thinks that smacking/htting ds6 is kinda the thing you do when he annoys you.....one day ds8 had hit ds6 half a dozen times really hurting him. I let ds6 hit him to show him how much it hurt. Ds8 has not hit him since (over two months).
How wrong was I? After the incident ds8 rang his father upset, father recorded the conversation and played it to the PSA at school who contacted social services.
I know what they think about it but I would like to know what other mums/dads think.

Ds who is 8 no longer hits his little brother so was I right or wrong to resolve the problem in this way?

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 19-Jan-13 12:50:55

You were wrong to allow your older child to hit your younger child so frequently and intentionally in the first place.
WTF were you doing whilst your boys were learning that violence is the only way to deal with other people?

IAmSheWhoMustBeObeyed Sat 19-Jan-13 12:52:41

On a scale from one to ten with ten being completely unacceptable, it's a ten.

tigereye Sat 19-Jan-13 12:56:27

I did not 'allow' my older son to hit my younger son, without sitting inbetween them 24 7 how could I stop it? I have tried everything, naughty step, talking to him explaining how wrong it is, pocket money deduction etc.... I do not smack my children so they know that it is something I accept but I honestly did not know how to stop him.
Whilst older son was hitting younger son I was cooking,cleaning,ironing etc as normal mums do!

EmmaNess Sat 19-Jan-13 12:56:57

Christ, Nebulous, judgmental much?!

I am guessing tigereye didn't 'allow' it. I expect her ds1 was told off and punished etc., but none of that worked. Letting her ds2 retaliate was probably a last resort, in order that her ds2 would stop getting hit. And it worked.

Were you wrong, tigereye? Not, imo. I think if exp was hitting ds2, it would be very very hard to stop it at home. No back up from the other parent sends everything to shit, really.

elfycat Sat 19-Jan-13 12:57:53

It's not ideal at all to be hitting (though I'd be sure to let SS know that it's XP who does the smacking that sets this off).

When DD2 hits DD1 I use the opportunity to point out to DD1 that DD2 learned it from her. The way to stop a younger child hitting is to let the older to lead by example. I do try to limit all hitting and it all gets told off.

It sounds like they were generally squabbling and hitting each other and that to an extent they need to resolve it between them, but only as long as no-one is getting hurt. Ironic that it was Ds8 who was doing most of the hitting and is then the one to complain.

If SS contact you agree that it's not ideal agree with everything they say but again say that hitting is not something you tolerate but that while xp smacks it's hard to get them to understand that.

EmmaNess Sat 19-Jan-13 12:58:25

x posts

Sometimes, when you've tried all the 'right' things, and when you've no support from the other parent who has a completely different set of principles, the 'wrong' thing is what you resort to.

tigereye Sat 19-Jan-13 12:58:28

I did not let the younger son punch older son or kick him or allow him to do it more than once, it was one smack and it stopped the problem.
what should I have done?

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 19-Jan-13 13:01:30

Then you need some parenting classes or to read a few self-help books to give you ideas about how to build positive relationships between your children.
What is your 8 year old like at school? Does he thump his peers and smaller children? Or do the consequences of that behaviour in school put him off?
And if you think that ironing and cleaning are of equal weight to parenting your children effectively then I think your priorities need readjusting.
Your older child hurt your younger child over a period of time and you coulen't stop him?
SS may be useful in offering ways for you to access appropriate support.

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 19-Jan-13 13:02:47

'ds who is 8 sees this all the time and thinks that smacking/htting ds6 is kinda the thing you do when he annoys you.....one day ds8 had hit ds6 half a dozen times really hurting him. '

Yes judgemental. Both children need more support than they are getting.

tigereye Sat 19-Jan-13 13:03:51

Thank You for your support EmmaNess, I have no support from their father,I am trying to leave him which is something he doesn't want so he won't support me in anything.

elfycat Sat 19-Jan-13 13:09:44

Wow we already have perfect parents with angelic offspring (or only children).

Massive assumption that the OP is a neglectful parent who hides behind the ironing. You cannot supervise children 100% of the time and ironing and cleaning are essential tasks.

Kids fight, my DDs are 2 and 4 and they scrap like any siblings. I keep an ear out for screams of pain (rather than frustration) and only wade in when needed.

tigereye Sat 19-Jan-13 13:09:54

Nebulous... ds8 does not have any problems at school. he is a very sweet boy who never causes a problem at school or home apart from this.
When the social worker came to the house I showed her a photo of marks left on my ds6 leg after a 'smack' from his father. The social worker reported that she felt intimidated by the boys father and he also told her the only reason he hadn't hit me was because he knew what the police would do!
Both boys are getting support from school and now ss but this really wasn't what I wanted to get into...I just wanted to know what other mums/dads would have done.

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 19-Jan-13 13:17:12

So, problem sorted and the boys are getting support. Good.
I hope you are sucsessful in leaving your abusive and intimidating ex as well. Get support to help you with than where you can from SS as well.

EmmaNess Sat 19-Jan-13 13:17:41

You should have shot yourself and handed yourself into the police, social services and interpol, tigereye.

Sorry for being facetious given you now have SS to deal with (do what elfycat says) but you can get a lot of overreaction on mn and I wanted to balance it out.

Yes, it's not ideal to let children hit each other but it was ONE hit. It's very easy to scorn and criticise. I think that you're posting here for support, not criticism, which I will guess you get plenty of from exp. I'm glad you're trying to leave him.

I think the criticism and judgypants-ing is probably better aimed at the children's father, not their mother who wants to better the situation.

I think when we're trying to change stuff that we know isn't great, we can feel scared and fragile and confused. And asking for help and getting told we're crap for 'allowing' the bad stuff in the first place is about as unsupportive as you can get. That sort of stuff can stop us daring to seek help. So ignore the non constructive negative posts, tigereye. You have to filter out the perfect people, they are almost always deluded.

IAmSheWhoMustBeObeyed Sat 19-Jan-13 13:43:37

I am not scorning or judging. However I do not agree with the younger child being allowed to hit the other to show him what it's like. This is akin to biting a toddler back to show him what it's like.
My two youngest fight and hit all the time and it's a nightmare. Neither of them have issues at school or problems bullying others they are just normal siblings (driving their mother crazy!)
In answer to the op: what I do is- try and reason with the hitter(when calm and collected ha!) try and explain empathy(pretty hopeless, but.....) have sanctions (the reasonable, sensible course of action) and of course that good old standby, shout, yell and get extremely cross.
My sympathies are with the op but I do disagree with her methods, however effective.

My mum used to leave us to fight it out because no matter what she did once her back was turned we would start again.

Its what siblings do!

tigereye Sat 19-Jan-13 13:49:15

but IAmShe... you are saying you 'shout and yell and get extremely cross' and that your 'two youngest fight and hit all the time and it's a nightmare'
I have stopped my children hitting each other and I do not have to 'shout and yell or get extremely cross'.....

IAmSheWhoMustBeObeyed Sat 19-Jan-13 13:52:46

Ah the perfect parent. I see.

I am not a perfect parent hence the yelling. I would draw a line at letting the younger hit the elder to show him that it hurt.

kilmuir Sat 19-Jan-13 13:57:09

So did i read correctly that exp hits the younger boy and his older brother also hits him???
I would be having words with exp

Willowisp Sat 19-Jan-13 14:03:43

i think you were right to allow younger DB hit the other. All too often I'm seeing older kids whack/bully/pinch the younger sibling & parents not doing anything about it.

It's a bit like standing up to a bully - they don't like it when the tables are turned. Well done DS2.

I don't like the sound of your exp BTW & agree I'd be letting SS let know that he frequently smacks Ds2...in fact I think about taking it a bit further & arguing access, if the only way he can control is with a smack. Not against smacking per se.

tigereye Sat 19-Jan-13 14:06:01

I have had words and words and words, nothing makes any difference.
I hope the social worker will be able to help us, I am not sure what she can do as I don't know how much power she has.
IAmShe...please don't be so critical of me. I am not a perfect parent only a very loving one who is being abused and is trying to do the best for my much loved boys.

tigereye Sat 19-Jan-13 14:09:56

Willowisp...the social worker agreed with you and spoke about supervised access. I have spent a whole year trying to get help and at last she has said she will help me. I live in hope that this year will see a change for us.

IAmSheWhoMustBeObeyed Sat 19-Jan-13 14:12:22

I've said I disagree. You asked for what other people would do and I responded.
I hope you get it all sorted out. smile

Willowisp Sat 19-Jan-13 14:51:14

i think that the result you have speaks for itself.

Iamshewhomustbeobeyed - how about a name change to IShoutAlotButItGetsMeNowhee ?

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