'Superwoman' articles in the Papers

[Kia]

I've just finished reading the Sunday Times and there's a whole page article about the pros and cons of having it all - or not - and I got really arsy when the article talks about a woman in the big bad city who is pulling in £1 million a year and has time to 'have it all'! Well - by Nigella Lawson's third best thong - on that kind of money you should be taken outside and shot if you can't!!

Another one is supposed to have come back from maternity leave and fired 6 of her colleagues. In a man this would be called 'decisive' in a woman it implies she's gone slightly mad but we wont say anything since she's just had a baby.

[Lollypop]

I have not read the article you write about, but I agree with most of the the India Knight article. That said that most women cannot have it all, and there is too much pressure on us to do so. However I wouldn't give up work, that would drive me bonkers but I would love part time, then I could 'have it all' if only the government got their act together with family friendly poicies.
Also did you read the article aboout Invisible Fathers? Men suffer from this too.

[SofiaAmes]

Lollypop, I agree with you about the govt's policies. I work more or less full time and get paid by the hour. I am 25 weeks pregnant with my second child and am constantly amazed by what I am expected to do by the hospital/gp/govt. When I suggested to my gp that their prenatal clinic times (11-1 on thurs) did not work with my work schedule and could I make an appointment for my checkup after work hours (the gp does have regular late hours for working people), the gp said that that's what maternity leave is for. Never mind that we only get 6 weeks fully paid maternity leave + 12 weeks at £75/week and the current medical recommendation is to exclusively breastfeed until 6 months. Hard to do while at work. And why isn't childcare tax deductible for working mothers with savings (do you only have to be poor and irresponsible to be entitled to it). Ok i won't go on and on.

[Tinker]

Can India Knight do us a favour and give up work?

[PamT]

SofiaAmes, you are supposed to be entitled to time off for ante-natal appointments, or you were when I worked prior to having DS2. However because I worked flexi-time, I was only credited with a certain number of hours and the one hour travel each way plus waiting time for trains often meant that I lost out this way.

Also, you do not have to be irresponsible to qualify for childcare tax credit - just poorly paid. Our income (despite my husband being a qualified and skilled IT worker)is so low that we are entitled to WFTC, free prescriptions, dental care etc and would receive something towards childcare costs if I worked too.

[PamT]

What I forgot to say in my last message was that I chose to be a SAHM because I wanted to be with my children and this is made possible by my 'wage' (WFTC). If I worked full time I would have to pay childcare x 3 and would have to earn a huge amount to break even, never mind make up for the benefits that I currently receive. There is no incentive for me to go back to work right now which I think is something of a failing within the current system. I have just started my own business (working from home) which will not provide a great income but will no doubt have a detrimental effect on the calculation of my benefits. I do think that all working parents should receive some help for childcare costs, if only that they get tax relief on it, after all, it is a necessary expense.

[bells2]

Just read the articles. Thought India was rather harsh in labelling women like Nigella, Cherie Blair and Carol Vorderman incredibly "emotionally needy" because they wanted to combine high flying careers with parenthood. I agree that she probably is right that the majority of working mothers would chuck it in / reduce their hours if they could but nonetheless I don't think its fair to assert that there's something wrong with those who think otherwise. India Knight is lucky in that her chosen field allows her to work flexible hours.

Agree with you Kia on the woman sacking 6 of her colleagues after maternity leave. How is her having been on maternity leave remotely relevant?

[Cityfreak]

I have not read the article, but it sounds like the same old cheap divide-and-rule tactic, to create jealousy and resentment amongst mothers, to keep on bringing this fictitious superwoman out of the hat. Most women don't have a real choice, because childcare is so expensive in the UK, you either have to stay at home and forego your career (or go back with dramatically reduced prospects, earnings, and pension after a few years), or you have to work like hell if you work. A few of us manage to keep a very low profile and work sane hours but we earn far less than our childless colleagues (or fathers who only see their children asleep) and often these colleagues resent the fact we are not working every evening and weekend like them. The creation of these divisions between mothers prevents us from uniting and campaigning for mother-friendly policies, which I think is the real issue. We should be demanding work flexibility, instead of thinking it is a luxury reserved for celebrities like India Knight. In a fit of anger, I even wrote to the Inland Revenue about tax credits, benefits, etc, and had a polite letter back from Dawn Primarolo, the Pay Master General (who has 2 stepkids I think). If you can spare 20 angry minutes to do the same, the address is Paymaster General, Treasury Chambers, Parliament Street, London SW1P 3AG.

[WideWebWitch]

Have just read both pieces. I agree with Tinker: India Knight would be doing us all a favour if she gave up work and stopped writing such drivel.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is irritating that celebs (Liz Hurley) look amazing weeks after giving birth and no, we are not likely to see the reality of sleepless nights and cracked nipples in Hello! magazine but "Nigella, Cherie and Carol Vorderman should have "I am emotionally needy" tatooed on their foreheads" WHAT? Because they have children and work?!!! What is Ms Knight on? I really think she bangs her pieces out in 10 seconds flat without thinking much at all. Oooh and lucky for her that her work is flexible and, presumably, in her opinion, doesn't make her emotionally needy.

And the Superwoman article: the woman who sacked 6 employees did so it seems because it was economically necessary from her employers point of view, not because she'd just come back from maternity leave, which was completely irrelevant. The piece was a waffly, lazy bit of work which didn't say anything new. Agree with Cityfreak about divide and rule, very irritating all round.

Must just stick to The Observer and stop buying The Sunday Times.

[bells2]

Thanks for that Cityfreak, will do so right now.

[mines]

While we're on the subject of Superwomen and The Sunday Times - did anyone else see the article about Margaret Driscoll who is planning to climb Everest next year, leaving her 7 year old son in the care of his elder sister?

Key thing about this being that his father died (in a climbing accident) before he was born, so if anything happens to her he is orphaned.

Am I alone in finding this a bit single minded, to put it politely?

Funnily enough, I remember having a huge argument with a colleague about 7 years ago, when Alison Hargreaves, another woman climber, died on K2, leaving her two small children without a mother. She got a lot of flak in the press at the time, but her husband was still alive to look after the kids and my feeling was that she was only doing what any number of fathers have done, and no-one accused them of behaving selfishly.

So when do we stop living for our children, and start living for ourselves? (Apologies for the philosophic question - it's 5.30am and insomnia tends to make me philosophic)

[Cityfreak]

Mines, I agree with you that it is a bit strange that with such a little child she is prepared to take the chance of climbing Everest, which, being ignorant about climbing, I assume is an extremely high risk activity. However, I think that there is a balance between keeping yourself in cotton wool because you are a parent, and between risking death and orphaning your children. My close schoolfriend's father died in a climbing accident when she was 3 mths old, her mother did not remarry till she was a teenager, and my friend never had brothers or sisters. When I was pregnant I asked her if she thought I should give up scuba diving (which is actually about as dangerous as skiing) and those type of sports. She told me not to stop, but that I should try to do less risky dives, and not go for the most adventurous ones. She was right and I am happy with having a life that is more sedate, but not totally sedate, now I am a mother.

[Enid]

Did you really scuba dive when pregnant, cityfreak? I thought that was a real no-no as the pressure could affect the fetus?

[Cityfreak]

No way when pregnant!!! I was informed that it was OK during breastfeeding but that was when he was 10 mths old!

[Enid]

Sorry! Thought you meant while you were pregnant! I must say, it had never occurred to me to give up scuba-diving since I've had dd. Not that we've had the opportunity since she's been born. But I often fantasise about the boat trips we used to take pre-dd, night dives, sharks, no land in sight etc etc...ahh pre-baby nostalgia...

[GillW]

Hmmm - don't know that I'd have gone scuba diving, but I did ski until I was 4 and half months PG with DS (and then the snow melted so I had to stop!). Not quite as mad as it sounds, as in real life I'm a qualified instructor, and I did take it easy and avoid anywhere busy/difficult/with tricky conditions.

[SofiaAmes]

I think there is a scuba diving trip to be organized somewhere in here....I love sunshine, but am not a big fan of water and boats (not to mention the hindrance of small children), but my husband loves scuba diving. Maybe we need to put together a mumsnet trip to egypt where the sunworshippers stay on the beach with the kids and the divers do day trips on a boat!?

[SofiaAmes]

When diana got killed in the car crash my mother's first reaction was to comment on what an irresponsible mother she was to go racing around with boyfriends in cars without out her seatbelt on. I wasn't a mother yet when it happened and didn't understand my mother's reaction. Now I do....

[Enid]

Unfortunately dp and I are both keen divers (its how we met - aah!) so I fear the childcare rows would spoil the serenity somewhat...

[tigermoth]

I am certainly more keen to avoid being alone in risky areas late at night. I do feel I have responsibilites to my sons - I'm not a free agent any more. It's thinking of them and my dh that makes me go to smear tests etc. I would be more lacksidaisical (sp!) if there was just me to think of.

I cringe when I think of the chances I took in my twenties. But is this motherhood or age catching up with me?

I must admit that I too wondered why Diana did not wear a seatbelt.

[Jbr]

When does anyone ever say to a man "you can't have it all". When does anyone ever suggest a man should decide whether he should work or not?

[Jbr]

I can't remember who said it, now (sorry!) but I agree about appointments and things. I remember my midwife wouldn't come out at weekends except once on a Saturday and she kept us waiting all day!

[bossykate]

hear, hear, jbr, and welcome back! "having it all" for women seems to mean child(ren) and a job (maybe not even from choice, but from financial necessity) - a rather modest set of aspirations imo.

[aloha]

Totally agree that having it all has come to mean such a narrow and ordinary thing - but maybe that's progress?? But if having it all means great sex life, highflying career, great family, gym-toned body, designer wardrobe, Porsche, dinner parties twice weekly and manicures, then maybe not. I do think it's wrong to climb Everest when you are the only parent to your child (also my idea of absolute hell so I'm unable to understand why she wants to do it). But I think extreme climbers are quite mad or at least very different from ordinary people - I have read memoirs which involve leaving members of their party to die slowly in the snow and just plugging on upwards. Spooky and strange. There is a theory that people who do things like this have naturally low levels of serotonin (the feelgood hormone) so have to push themselves to the extreme to feel anything in the way of the emotion that other people get when they buy a really nice pair of shoes.

[Enid]

Hey! Hold on a minute aloha, mountain climbing isn't THAT weird! The rare occasions when climbers have been left by the rest of their team is because it is impossible to carry someone down with you. I would say having a husband who plays golf all weekend could be just as detrimental to his child's welfare than someone who follows an 'extreme' sport. Women who climb don't expect to die, that's a given. I agree if you are the only parent to that child you have a responsibility, but we can all understand the need to do something for yourself, I am sure.