Unfair Treatment of Parent and toodler in Pub

[nomik]

I'm looking for a bit of advice after what I feel was unfair treatment (possibly discrimination) to people with young children in a pub. A friend and I visited the White Hart pub in Richmond two Saturdays ago with my 20 month old boy. We carried the buggy up about 7 steps into the pub which is fine, however when we got into the pub a member of staff told us that the family area of this pub was up another 7 step! We were like...ok, but then the member of staff told us that no buggies are allowed in this area due to lack of space! (I have been in this part before, its a large room, much larger than many of the cafes I've taken the buggy into). So then I said, ok, are highchairs upstairs? To which the staff member replied, No we don't have highchairs, they take up too much room. To this response I was very shocked, how can we eat in here? We asked the staff member this, and his reply was very nonchalant, no alternative offered, basically he didn't care. Being shocked with this attitude we decided to leave, We spoke to the assistant manager before we left, who carried on the un-supportive attitude saying that it's a listed pub and there is no space, but when we asked what families should do with young children, he said that they should bring booster seats with them! I have since emailed the manager and the brewery, Youngs, to which the operations manager got back to me with a very unacceptable response, not answering any of my questions, saying they are not discriminating and that I could go to another Youngs pub which has more room. I emailed again asking her to answer my questions, to which she responded some days later with a very vague, not really answering anything I asked, nor even caring how they made me feel, nothing. I just want to know if anyone else has experience anything like this, as in all the 20 months I have been going to cafes, restaurants and pubs with my baby and his buggy, I have never had treatment like this before. If the pub was so small I would understand, but it really isn't, there is lots of room. I am so shocked they can't even accommodate highchairs and I feel other mums should now about this seeing that the White Hart is right on the river in Richmond and a popular location. I just feel that I have been discriminated against. I could have my son on my lap, but at 20 months, he doesn't sit still for a second! Plus, having a family room upstairs, I feel this is a bit dangerous too.

[Sirzy]

Not everyone has to be family friendly. Obviously families aren't this place target audience which is fine.

[Wonkyparsnip]

I've taken a highchairs to a pub before because I know they don't have them. Just go somewhere else. I think you're overeacting.

[arlagirl]

Just go elsewhere.

[ZeldaMae]

That pub is suited far more to people without small children. There's a cafe directly opposite (orange peoke?), lots of coffee shops or just along the way a bit there's the Depot which is family-friendly and on the same bit of river (better view too).

[purplemunkey]

You have not been 'discriminated against'. It's a pub. They have no responsibility to cater to young families and you have no 'right' to take your baby there. Get over yourself and go somewhere else.

[Nolim]

Not every place has to be family friendly.

[CultureSucksDownWords]

Sorry, but they don't have to accommodate families with small children and they don't have to provide highchairs. It would have been possible for you to leave your buggy and take a portable high chair/booster with you. You haven't been discriminated against, just not accommodated how you would like, so I think the lesson here is to go somewhere more suited to small children or accept the set up in that pub if you really want to go there.

[fairgame]

It's not discrimination. They don't have you make adjustments for you just because you have a child.

[ceeveebee]

Why is this still bothering you 2 weeks later?

I'm not sure which pub you mean - The White Hart is in Barnes - do you mean the White Cross? They do have a sign outside saying no buggies allowed in I think -which is why I have always gone to one of the many many other places in Richmond which are more family friendly when I have my DCs with me.
Not every pub wants to accommodate toddlers, sometimes people just want to relax.

[nomik]

My mistake, its the White Cross (not White Hart!) in Richmond, by Richmond Bridge and the town centre. Its a shame no one feels that not allowing buggies or highchairs in the pub is unfair for people that would like to take their young family there. I suppose its because its the first time ever I have experienced this and I was quite shocked considering the pub is large enough to accomodate at least high chairs, and they say they do have a family room (which would indicate that it is a family friendly pub!) but then don't actually accomodate if you have young children.

[OTheHugeManatee]

You sound very self-absorbed.

Why don't you just go somewhere else? This isn't 'discrimination'.

[purpleapple1234]

We do love a good pub lunch and lovely lovely pub atmosphere. We live abroad and abroad just does not do pubs in the same way. But we just have to accept that there is only really a small percentage of pubs that are suitable for us. Size, steps, table arrangment, other customers (a bunch of rugby/football watchers on a saturday lunchtime are not going to happy with us and a red-faced toddler running around) and try to find a good loo for nappy changing! A good pub lunch for us, nearly always involves a pub-to-pub crawl just trying to find the one nice pub that acceptable.

Pubs are surely one of the few places that does not have to cater for families. I'm just grateful that the tide is turning and they are becoming more family friendly. Sounds like the one referred to in the op, simply does not care for families. Probably makes enough without them.

[Sirzy]

Family room often means "if you have to come we don't want you near everyone else"

[OTheHugeManatee]

I'd like to take a toddler to Christopher's American Bar in Covent Garden. Why don't they have high chairs instead of those bar stools that are dangerous for small children. Why are they allowed to discriminate against parents who might want to take their young families with them while they enjoy a nice martini?

[Lj8893]

Huh?? How is that discrimination? Annoying and inconvenient for you and other parents of small children but you are being very dramatic to class it as discrimination!
i have a dd who's 15 months, if im planning a meal in advance then i always phone and check for highchairs, and if its a more spontaneous meal out then i just hunt around for somewhere decent with highchairs available.

[ShirleyYoureNotSerious]

Unfair? It's unfair of you to want to inflict your small child on me in what is traditionally an adult environment!

So there are no other pubs in all Richmond which are more suited to those who want to take up large amounts of space with buggies to the exclusion of actual food and drink buying customers? Nowhere else to go? It has to be this listed building, yes? The one which is not appropriate for young children? The one you've been in before so you knew exactly what it was like? On a Saturday, when it's likely to be or later get busy, not a quiet Wednesday afternoon?

You do know that pubs don't have to allow children into them at all, don't you? Do you know that they don't have to allow anyone in regardless of age and they don't even have to give you a reason?

Pubs are a business not a charity. Publicans and breweries do their homework and cater for the majority clientele in their area so that they can run their businesses without going broke. In the case of most pubs, not just this one, the key customer base is patently not small children!

[MirandaWest]

Pubs don't have to accommodate small children. Or any children.

[TheCowThatLaughs]

They obviously don't really want customers with very young children, but don't really want to say so, so try and discourage them. In this case it worked! It's very disappointing for you, but not discrimination

[ZeldaMae]

just go to Giraffe! Honestly why make yourself and everyone else miserable. You could've gone in, folded up buggy and had DC on your lap, but you didn't want to.

And they probably don't have highchairs because they don't want loads of small children. It's not like there's a shortage of other places in striking distance.

If you'd gone in and your DC (sincd you say they can't sit still), had fallen down the rickety, listed steps, you would probably have posted complaining about that.

Makes sense the pub is clear it's not the best place for children .

[CultureSucksDownWords]

If you really want to go to that pub, leave the buggy at home and take a travel booster seat and go up the stairs to their family room. It's perfectly do-able, if you're desperate to go there.

[projecting]

You can't be discriminated against for having a child, don't be silly.

If you want a baby friendly pub then go to one with room for pushchairs and highchairs. Don't go to this pub.

It's not "right to roam" you know. You don't have a right to eat anywhere you want with your 20mo and management just have to accommodate you. That's not how it works :)

[ChippingInGluggingOn]

He's 20 months, not weeks. I presume they had chairs?

[projecting]

OP if you'd had older children then of course you could have used the family room. Evidently not all children require buggies and high chairs.

I'm quite worried about what would happen to you if you ever experienced proper discrimination. I think your head might explode!

[PatriciaHolm]

The WC has never been particularly child friendly. Up to them, that's how they choose to trade. Definitely not discrimination, don't be daft.

[ShirleyYoureNotSerious]

On the plus side, kudos to the OP for trying to name and shame this pub. I'll make a point of visiting it next weekend when I'm in that area. A nice pub by the Thames which doesn't have hosts of badly controlled toddlers throwing tantrums and organic humous around while their parents leave their oversized buggies in the path of other diners and drinkers sounds excellent.