How would you feel?

(33 Posts)
Jayne266 Fri 05-Apr-13 21:01:21

Just a quick question really I went to pick DS up from nursery (8months old) and they said he was sleeping outside.
I went through the patio door and he was in a pram sleeping on his own. (all the other kids were playing inside)

I felt really uneasy about this can someone talk some sense into me.

TryDrawing Fri 05-Apr-13 21:08:43

Maybe I'm a bit odd but I'd be quite pleased, as long as the area was secure, he was warmly wrapped and someone was keeping a regular eye on him. It's not great to be in centrally heated rooms all the time.

Can you put your finger on what bothered you about it?

daisydee43 Fri 05-Apr-13 21:08:43

No that's really upsetting especially in this weather. I really don't like nurseries as I feel there's too many kids and the staff haven't much experience. I have a childminder and she still gets it wrong but I just tell her straight and she eventually does it, for example I was upset when I found out she was feeding dd in a car seat so I told her about 5 times to put her in high chair

marquesas Fri 05-Apr-13 21:12:13

Can you explain why you were uneasy? My DC slept outside by themselves at home, I'm not sure why it would be different at nursery. As long as he was warm enough I'd be pleased that he was having a peaceful sleep.

Jayne266 Fri 05-Apr-13 21:13:01

Am not sure trydrawing I think it's when I had to open the door to go outside and saw him in a pram on his own. It broke my heart a little it wasn't like all the kids were playing outside and he was a sleep they were all playing inside and he was outside.

Jayne266 Fri 05-Apr-13 21:15:40

That's why I wanted your thoughts experienced mners!
I am a first time mum and trying to keep my emotions in check. (bit hormonal at the minute)

missmapp Fri 05-Apr-13 21:19:26

I think its fine, my two often slept outside, even in the cold , and it generally meant they slept much more deeply.
HOWEVER , as a mother who put her babies in nursery, I understand how you feel about him being alone BUT I think, as long as he was being checked, it really is fine.

If you are still unsure, speak to them, you can always ask he always sleeps inside.

JiltedJohnsJulie Fri 05-Apr-13 21:21:52

Could they see him? Was he warm and secure?

ReetPetit Fri 05-Apr-13 22:19:20

this is very odd confused are you in the UK? The weather here atm is freezing - what was their rationale for putting an 8 mth old baby out to sleep in the garden? Did you ask them?

I have 20 years experience in childcare and have never known babies left to sleep outside unless it is summer and they are completely shaded and all(or at least some) staff members are outside with them.

I really, really dislike nurseries for such young children. I have worked in many and would never leave my own child under 2/3 yrs in a nursery. I am now a childminder for the very reason I didn't want my own ds's to have to go in to group childcare - what kind of nursery is this? Private?

Jayne266 Sat 06-Apr-13 01:46:16

Hi reetpetite yes am in the uk and when I got there he had been out there for 45min. And it's private.

I understand what everyone is saying about putting their babies outside, but how would you feel happy if someone else did this to your baby and I would personally have the door open.

NatashaBee Sat 06-Apr-13 02:13:38

I don't really understand why they put him out there alone. I wouldn't mind if he slept in a pram outside if that's where all the other kids were playing and there was a staff member outside.

Emus Sat 06-Apr-13 03:42:49

I remember reading an article on BBC News not so long ago about this. I've managed to dig it out, but here's an extract:

"The theory behind outdoor napping is that children exposed to fresh air, whether in summer or the depths of winter, are less likely to catch coughs and colds - and that spending a whole day in one room with 30 other children does them no good at all."

Here's a link to the article (hopefully it'll work as I'm on my phone using the app):

Link

ReetPetit Sat 06-Apr-13 08:16:21

I wouldnt be happy then op. Based on the current weather conditions and the fact he was unattended and out of anyones ear shot is extremrly worrying. Did you ask why? Had they left him to cry and put him out there so as not to disturb the others? What a strange practice. Having worked in many, i very mich dislike private nurseties. They have the cheapest staff and charge the most money! There is no real interest in the childrens welfare.

Do bring this up with them and complain. This is your baby, it should be your choice whether he is left oitside alone in sub zero temperatures! Terrible.

ZenNudist Sat 06-Apr-13 08:23:34

As long as he was wrapped up warm I wouldn't mind. Does he not sometimes sleep in the pram when you are out?

I don't think him being alone so awful. Provided someone was keeping an eye on him.

I think it shows your nursery is flexible to letting your ds nap when he needs rather than forcing him to sleep when the other children do. If they don't have a separate nap room them outside would be quiet away from the other kids playing inside.

sapphirestar Sat 06-Apr-13 08:29:14

I posted the Norwegian Napping thread a while back, apparently it's quite common over there.

My nursery does this and I was shock when they first told me and hated the idea. However she really did sleep very well, was well wrapped up and rosy cheeked and obviously not cold at all, even in the winter of 2009/10 which was pretty bracing. DD was also on a secure terrace type area with door shut. (glass doors and well checked on though)

I would say though that your nursery should have mentioned it to you before doing it, but I'd also say unless you really really hate it then give it a go. I really think it does them good.
Mine would put them outside in all weather except very heavy snow, suitably attired of course! They look very cute all bundled up and happily asleep!

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea Sat 06-Apr-13 08:30:18

I would think it was lovely. He would have been peaceful - not disturbed by all the other kids' noise and breathing in lovely fresh air.

I assume he was adequately wrapped up? He's only 8 months and he was asleep, he wouldn't have any concept of "I'm out here alone and everyone else is inside playing" if that's what you are worried about.

thereonthestair Sat 06-Apr-13 08:31:28

My nursery always did this with babies. They slept outside until they all fell into the same routine. Before ds went to nursery at about 8 months he was in a routine, then it went with the hussle and bustle of nursery but sleeping outside in a secure area meant the tired babies slept without being disrupted and getting overtired. I always thought it was a fantastic idea. When I was born all (or most of them) babies were put out in prams etc if they didn't sleep.

sapphirestar Sat 06-Apr-13 08:31:46
AllOverIt Sat 06-Apr-13 08:33:19

I'd think it was fine. Norwegians have them outside in -10. As long as they were wrapped up and toasty, where's the harm?

Themobstersknife Sat 06-Apr-13 08:34:41

Were they maybe all outside playing, he was out with them, clearly needed a nap so popped him in a pram? I think it is a little odd - not something I have ever seen at a nursery - but I think I would be ok with it if their explanation is reasonable.
DD1 used to nap in her pram a lot, because we used to go out with the dog most days, and I would leave her outside if she was still asleep when we got back. She is very outdoorsy and pretty healthy now.
By the way, just to counter the usual mn anti nursery generalisations, not all nurseries are bad, not all nursery staff are inexperienced. Please ignore those on this thread trying to undermine your childcare choices and focus on the specific issue (unless of course you have other concerns about the nursery).

Fairylea Sat 06-Apr-13 08:35:54

I wouldn't be happy at all and I would complain. More from the point of view of how would they know he had woken up? Did they have a monitor? I wouldn't be happy to think he'd have to wake up and cry loudly before someone realised. But then I am deliberately getting us into some debt in order to stay home with ds rather than put him into a nursery before he's 2 as the nurseries where we live are absolutely shocking. (With dd we lived in a different area and I went back to work when she was 4 months old because I felt very confident in the nursery there and she seemed happy.... trust your instincts!)

tugamommy Sat 06-Apr-13 08:39:45

Ds always slept outside in his nursery. The rule is if the temp goes below 4C then they bring them in. I thought it was weird at first but got used to the idea.

This is an amazing nursery btw, couldn't be happier with ds's care.

KLou111 Sat 06-Apr-13 08:53:55

I wouldn't be worried. When we had ds, now almost 20 months, my nan in law (93) said to my Dh, make sure you put him outside for at least 30 mins a day, whatever the weather.
She was right. He's rarely ill, and he loves being outside now whatever the weather. In the sleet on Wednesday, he stood banging on the patio doors wanting to go out, so we did!
But it would be interesting why they did though, and if they had the same theory smile

easterbaby Sat 06-Apr-13 09:42:15

Hi Sapphire Star, I read the same article and think it's a great idea! As long as baby is wrapped up warm and in a secure area, what's the problem?

Thanks Mobstersknife. I raised an eyebrow when I read those comments on nurseries being universally bad for babies. Amazing the lengths some parents go to in justifying their own choices. One SAHD whom I know delighted in telling me horror stories about a nursery he'd read about, where the children were routinely abused or ignored by staff. Perhaps there are poor nurseries out there - I don't know how effective the inspections are. There are certainly many homes where kids are neglected by their own parents.

I'm a first time mum and have chosen to go back to work full time. The main reasons are personal rather than financial. I think I'm getting access to more interesting work projects, plus I enjoy the buzz of earning my own money. I also want to share the bills/childcare load more equally with my husband, to give him the chance to be a loving, hands-on dad. We chose our nursery very carefully. It's not the cheapest and doesn't have an Ofsted rating yet, as it's quite new. But we are impressed by the care and affection lavished by the staff in the baby room, and the educational philosophy of the warm and kind director. Theirs is a tough job and I suspect that some parents are hard to deal with. We've spent lots of time getting to know the staff at drop-offs and pick-ups, which has developed the relationship and trust on both sides. I feel that they know my son much better as a result. I also think we'll learn quite a bit about childcare along the way, as they've seen it all before!

OP, I'd really recommend getting to know your key worker well so you can discuss this issue openly. Some of the communal aspects of nursery are lovely - eg, I watched a slightly older girl putting toast on my son's plate when he was upset. But each child is an individual and the best nurseries don't have a one-size-fits-all policy.

Get to know your nursery workers (imo birthdays cards and the odd little present can't hurt!) - if we show how much we value and support the important work they do, it will create a kinder place where our babies will flourish.

TiggyD Sat 06-Apr-13 11:26:20

A lot of nurseries do this. Usually the ones that are a bit tight on space inside and don't have enough space for cots. There are benefits, but for safety's sake they have to be strapped in to their prams. There's just something about tying children down to go to sleep that seems wrong to me.

Willowbear Sat 06-Apr-13 15:22:42

I think my main concern would be that he was unsupervised. I don't see a problem with outdoor sleeping so long as he is wrapped up warm. The fact that he was unsupervised through a closed door would leave me very uneasy.

Plus presumably it would have been nice and quiet outside so he would have had a more restful sleep than if he were inside with all the noisy 30 children?

OP I fear you are perhaps, in the nicest possible way, being a bit PFB here.

LadyWidmerpool Sat 06-Apr-13 15:44:55

If your baby was warm and being checked every couple of minutes I wouldn't worry as a one off but it should be fine for you to say you don't want it to happen again if that's your preference. A good nursery will accommodate your wishes as far as physically/legally possible, especially with an 8 month old. Mine has always slept better in a pushchair, I think being strapped in helps her to wind down.

Jayne266 Sat 06-Apr-13 17:07:30

Thank you for the messages everyone I was generally on the fence about it. But you all seems to have heard of this and some ok with it some not.

I think I didnt mind him being outside he was wrapped up lovely, I was just worried about the door being shut and maybe him not being heard when he woke up. (also on a extra note I panicked a bit as he smelt of sick and the care worker didn't know why and I was thinking what if he had been sick while he was a sleep)

ReetPetit Sat 06-Apr-13 19:31:54

What reason did they give for him being outside?

Jayne266 Sat 06-Apr-13 20:07:40

No reason they just said he was a sleep outside.

Tanith Sun 07-Apr-13 01:31:13

This used to be done many years ago in this country - Margaret and Rachel McMillan opened their fresh air nursery in 1914.
It's also done routinely in Scandinavian nurseries, some of which don't have the children indoors at all!

The big difference is that they're supervised, not on their own with the door closed. They are also in warmly padded cots, not strapped down in pushchairs.

My concern would be the strapping down combined with the apparent lack of supervision and I think you're justified in checking that.

As a childminder, I have had children fall asleep in their pushchairs and I've left them to sleep in our very secure garden. I do ensure they are properly monitored, though.

ReetPetit Sun 07-Apr-13 20:33:26

I agree with Tanith - i think it is very dependent on circumstances. Its the freezing temp, combined with the not supervising which is the issue. I just can't imagine why he was out there with no other child and no adult. That is very worrying.
As a cm i would only ever leave children outside in warmer weather and with other children and adults out there too. If i left a child in the circumstances described i would fully expect to be reported to ofsted.

I feel you have to raise it and tbh op im surprised you didnt at the time.

And fwiw, i dont think you are being pfb and i quite often feel a lot of people are on here!

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