Advice please- I need to talk this through

[jumpinghoops]

My son is currently attending a really great nursery, love the staff. He's 1.11, just about to finish in the baby room and ready to move to the toddlers. My elder daughter went to the preschool room and had a good time there.
My daughter is now at a different school Reception. The school opened nursery provision last year and have just offered me a place for him to start in toddlers. It would be much more convenient for me to do one drop in the morning and I'm currently stuck in a job I hate, unable to move really as I need the flexibility to be able to get in around 9.30, this is the earliest I can reach central London once I've done 2x drops after nursery opens at 8. However, I've begun settling sessions at the new nursery and I just don't get a good feeling there. The staff seem nice,and keen to engage with me, but there is something lacking in the room. Activities not set up well, beautiful resources but poorly kept/set up, kids faces obviously not cleaned after breakfast and both times I've been in the room the adults seem to be focused on washing up/filling out forms while the children seem to wander around a bit listlessly. There seems little warmth there, unlike the other nursery. The school is generally fine, but I've had some less than great experiences also regarding lack of care and the Head is, in my opinion (as a former Primary teacher) a bit inexperienced and useless. I just don't know what to do and am looking for some advice. WWYD? Should I stay with the first nursery though the 2 x morning drop is near-killing me. Or change to a new nursery that is probably OK, not brilliant, but that every other parent I've spoken to says there child is happy in?

[TiggyOfQuirm]

...the adults seem to be focused on washing up/filling out forms... Always avoid nurseries that are too clean or take pride in their paperwork. They have priorities other than the children.

*...every other parent I've spoken to says there child is happy..." It's perfectly possible that every other parent is wrong to think it's a good nursery. I've worked in a few shit nurseries that were full of happy customers, often with an 'outstanding' rating from ofsted. Children are pretty optimistic things, and will tend to make the best of wherever they are.

[TiggyOfQuirm]

Bold fail.

[jumpinghoops]

Okay, thank you. I've never worked in a nursery but do have enough experience of early years settings to know when something doesn't feel right. I went in for an hour to play with my son and the children were all over me, literally all climbing into my lap and bringing me stories, holding my hand and wanting me to play. I wondered if this was because there's a lack of engagement with the carers in the room.

[greeneggsandjam]

Yes, avoid nurseries that take pride in their paperwork. Hmm. what an odd thing to say. All nurseries have paperwork to do.

[TiggyD]

Yes, all nurseries have paperwork to do. Some nurseries like doing their paperwork so much that it takes priority over looking after children.

[greeneggsandjam]

I really don't think you should dismiss a nursery because some forms were being filled in when you went in. You don't know what was happening the other hours in the day. Also, what is meant by activities not set up well?

[TiggyD]

I can. I'm a nursery worker. I've worked in places where children have to take second place to paperwork.

[greeneggsandjam]

All you are doing is putting a negative slant on nurseries. Parents will read your comments and be even more critical of nurseries (if that's even possible) so really, all you are doing is making your working life harder.

[TiggyD]

I'm putting a negative slant on the sort of nurseries who, when a parent has a look round, spend several minutes trying to tempt them to stay by showing them a child's elaborate full colour 'learning journey' that has taken hundreds of hours for staff to write.

Parents should be critical of bad nurseries. I want all bad nurseries to shut down. I also want all the crap staff to leave the sector. Would make life so much easier for all the good staff.

[greeneggsandjam]

So a nursery is bad because it produces a learning journey that has taken 'hundreds of hours' to update? Blame the government and Ofsted for putting such requirements out there, not the nursery.

Encourage parents to complain about such things and be critical of them? How much will they complain when Ofsted decides they are only good or satisfactory because their paperwork didn't show enough correlation between the childs learning and the benchmarking or that there simply wasn't enough evidence?

Unfortunately these are the times we are living in. So while it would be jolly nice if all EYFS staff spent the whole day engaging with children only and not having to worry about putting pen to paper at all, it simply isn't possible.

Don't encourage parents to jump in and complain about things they don't understand fully.

[Pico2]

I was very happy with DD's first nursery, so would have said positive things about it to other parents. But her second nursery is fantastic, so I can see flaws in the first now. If you have experience of other nurseries then you may be in a better position to assess the nursery than the other parents who are happy with it.

[Zebda]

What Pico said. It's not until you experience different that you can judge the prior. I've had this on nannies/aupairs over the years. Each one seems better than the last. However, if you really don't 'feel' the nursery then you need to listen to your instincts, as you have little else to go on here.

Personally, as a FT working parent I would look at simplifying logistics as a very key part of improving happy family life, (mine and my DC's) and if the new nursery is well rated, well equipped, with enthusiastic and qualified staff, low turnover and safe I would probably give it a go. You will know quickly if your DS is unhappy. Also I've always found children in the nursery gravitate towards and make a fuss of a new adult (particularly their friend's mum) so wouldn't read too much into this, to me it suggests that they are curious, comfortable and confident with the adults around them, and indicative they have good experiences with adults in the nursery.

Have you got a good idea for how they organise the day/activities. This tells a lot I think

[tired100]

'children were all over me, literally all climbing into my lap and bringing me stories, holding my hand and wanting me to play' - you're right - the staff are not engaging with the children enough. Yes, Nurseries have to pass OFSTED, yes the learning journeys need to be filled out, yes there is more paperwork. But the MOST important thing for the under 5s is that he is physically safe and emotionally secure . If this is in place all children soak up learning , if not, a child learns that life is dull, the correct way to look at people is to frown at them, the correct way to interact with people is to act as if you're too busy to listen to them ... your son is learning his most important life lessons right now. I am a Nursery manager and I know how hard it is to get everything done in time ... but the children must come first, before the paper work.
I repeat , there is a lot of paperwork and good observation and record keeping is important but your child needs to know that his key person likes him and cares about his happiness.

[tired100]

'children were all over me, literally all climbing into my lap and bringing me stories, holding my hand and wanting me to play' - you're right - the staff are not engaging with the children enough. Yes, Nurseries have to pass OFSTED, yes the learning journeys need to be filled out, yes there is more paperwork. But the MOST important thing for the under 5s is that he is physically safe and emotionally secure . If this is in place all children soak up learning , if not, a child learns that life is dull, the correct way to look at people is to frown at them, the correct way to interact with people is to act as if you're too busy to listen to them ... your son is learning his most important life lessons right now. I am a Nursery manager and I know how hard it is to get everything done in time ... but the children must come first, before the paper work.
I repeat , there is a lot of paperwork and good observation and record keeping is important but your child needs to know that his key person likes him and cares about his happiness.

[tired100]

'children were all over me, literally all climbing into my lap and bringing me stories, holding my hand and wanting me to play' - you're right - the staff are not engaging with the children enough. Yes, Nurseries have to pass OFSTED, yes the learning journeys need to be filled out, yes there is more paperwork. But the MOST important thing for the under 5s is that he is physically safe and emotionally secure . If this is in place all children soak up learning , if not, a child learns that life is dull, the correct way to look at people is to frown at them, the correct way to interact with people is to act as if you're too busy to listen to them ... your son is learning his most important life lessons right now. I am a Nursery manager and I know how hard it is to get everything done in time ... but the children must come first, before the paper work.
I repeat , there is a lot of paperwork and good observation and record keeping is important but your child needs to know that his key person likes him and cares about his happiness.

[tired100]

'children were all over me, literally all climbing into my lap and bringing me stories, holding my hand and wanting me to play' - you're right - the staff are not engaging with the children enough. Yes, Nurseries have to pass OFSTED, yes the learning journeys need to be filled out, yes there is more paperwork. But the MOST important thing for the under 5s is that he is physically safe and emotionally secure . If this is in place all children soak up learning , if not, a child learns that life is dull, the correct way to look at people is to frown at them, the correct way to interact with people is to act as if you're too busy to listen to them ... your son is learning his most important life lessons right now. I am a Nursery manager and I know how hard it is to get everything done in time ... but the children must come first, before the paper work.
I repeat , there is a lot of paperwork and good observation and record keeping is important but your child needs to know that his key person likes him and cares about his happiness.

[tired100]

'children were all over me, literally all climbing into my lap and bringing me stories, holding my hand and wanting me to play' - you're right - the staff are not engaging with the children enough. Yes, Nurseries have to pass OFSTED, yes the learning journeys need to be filled out, yes there is more paperwork. But the MOST important thing for the under 5s is that he is physically safe and emotionally secure . If this is in place all children soak up learning , if not, a child learns that life is dull, the correct way to look at people is to frown at them, the correct way to interact with people is to act as if you're too busy to listen to them ... your son is learning his most important life lessons right now. I am a Nursery manager and I know how hard it is to get everything done in time ... but the children must come first, before the paper work.
I repeat , there is a lot of paperwork and good observation and record keeping is important but your child needs to know that his key person likes him and cares about his happiness.

[tired100]

'children were all over me, literally all climbing into my lap and bringing me stories, holding my hand and wanting me to play' - you're right - the staff are not engaging with the children enough. Yes, Nurseries have to pass OFSTED, yes the learning journeys need to be filled out, yes there is more paperwork. But the MOST important thing for the under 5s is that he is physically safe and emotionally secure . If this is in place all children soak up learning , if not, a child learns that life is dull, the correct way to look at people is to frown at them, the correct way to interact with people is to act as if you're too busy to listen to them ... your son is learning his most important life lessons right now. I am a Nursery manager and I know how hard it is to get everything done in time ... but the children must come first, before the paper work.
I repeat , there is a lot of paperwork and good observation and record keeping is important but your child needs to know that his key person likes him and cares about his happiness.

[greeneggsandjam]

Children being all over a new adult is not a sign of them not being engaged with by nursery staff, its fairly normal that they will bring books to a new person and ask them to play with them and act as if they are the most exciting thing ever.

[TiggyD]

Ofsted says planning should be kept to a minimum.

Don't encourage parents to jump in and complain about things they don't understand fully. I'm here to explain the things they don't fully understand. What is your experience of childcare Green?