DD aged 21 months on an IEP at nursery?!

(47 Posts)
cheekymonk Wed 14-Nov-12 20:17:43

My DD 21 months goes to nursery 3 days a week and childminder 2 as I work 30 hours a week. I did do 16 hours and used only a nursery but increased hours beg of Oct and dd started with a childminder too.
DD seemed to be getting on ok at nursery but about 2 weeks before starting with cm she was getting more aggressive at nursery. It started with pushing children over and then escalated to pinching/scratching and now it is biting and she has drawn blood! Nearly every day at nursery I have to sign an incident form. she cries quite often at being left and is always so tired and unbearable 3pm onwards until bedtime as she is so tired (she has sleep at nursery). To top it all off, my cm was telling me that she was talking with dd's room leader who said that it is hard work because dd needs constant shadowing and that she doesn't talk much at nursery. She is also on an IEP (whatever that is, will google it) so cm told me but nursery hadn't told me that!! I love dd's keyworker and know that she cares for dd but the room leader, I don't like. i mentioned the other day that i would be horrified if I thought that nursery thought oh god baby cheekymonk is in today and they didn't answer me which says it all!!!
DD is hard work at the moment, very irritable and lots of tantrums. She hates being restricted and already we have moved her out of highchair to kiddy table and chairs and plan to move her into cotbed with no sides soon. Plus she isn't talking that much. CM is using signing but room leader told her theyu are anti signing because it delays speech more which cm disagreed with! also nursery give dd time out and sit her in front of egg timer! I know they have to do something but cm sits with her on sofa after incident and helps calm her down and there are far fewer incidents at cm than nursery!
so, I plan to move dd to 3 days with cm and keep 2 days at nursery but really, in my heart, i just want to swipe dd away from nursery completely. WWYD?

galwaygirl Wed 14-Nov-12 20:24:38

I would switch her full time to the cm to be honest as it sounds as if she's happier there x

PandaG Wed 14-Nov-12 20:27:23

no way she should be on an IEP - individual education plan - without your knowledge.

I would move her FT to the childminder if you are able

dancinginthemoonlight Wed 14-Nov-12 20:27:40

I wouldn't think time out is a reasonable method of discipline for 21 month old so I would question the nursery tbh. An IEP is an individual education plan. I've heard of them for primary school age children but not 21 month Olds.... Could your childminder do all her childcare?

cheekymonk Wed 14-Nov-12 20:30:35

I don't think cm can have her fulltime but I shall ask. IEPs are linked with special needs I see so is it her sppech or behaviour? Am very cross they have not told me. I have had lots of concerned faces and talk of a type of action plan but did not know it was an IEP.
feel out of my depth on this. DS went to nursery and didn't have any of these issues but they are 2 very different children.

catkind Wed 14-Nov-12 20:33:17

Another vote for full time CM if you can. When she's 3 or so she may be more interested in socialising more with children her age, and you could consider a (different?) nursery or preschool at that point.

dancinginthemoonlight Wed 14-Nov-12 20:33:55

Iep is still a bit hardcore for 21 months. Ifthey were worried about speech they should have advised you to speak to your health visitor who could have referred for speech therapy if they were concerned. Here it is unusual to refer for speech issues until after two years of age. What does the cm say?

getoffthecoffeetable Wed 14-Nov-12 20:34:23

How is your DD at the CM?
It sounds like your CM spends a lot more time with DD than the nursery does. Not sure how appropriate an egg timer is at that age?
My DS is 20 months old, hates a high chair and is just into a cotbed and also hates being restricted. Also lots of tantrums. It's just their age. Don't feel bad about it. I've just pulled DS from nursery for much less than what it sounds like you're going through with your nursery so please take my advice with heavy pinch of salt! I'd say that it sounds from your post that you want to move DD to CM. Have a good think about it but your post pretty much says that you'd prefer DD to be with CM. Probably save some money doing that too...
Good luck.

Preschool children have IPPs (individual play plans) so maybe that was what nursery meant? Whatever it is, it should have been signed off by you!
Your childminder is right on the signing issue. Signing prompts language development and does not stop children from talking.

dancinginthemoonlight Wed 14-Nov-12 20:36:46

I'm also sure they need parental permission to complete an iep and good practice is that you and possibly your cm be part of the process

cheekymonk Wed 14-Nov-12 20:46:10

I do remember having to write some action points on a form the other day but I was not really told what it was, was hard to concentrate with dd in my arms yelling! I have been to HV for speech when dd was 19 months and told to come back at 21 months if no improvement ( there has been some but not much so plan to go next mon when off work) Cm says dd has come on a great deal with her speech and that she 'gets' the signs and responds to them. Cm says how switched on dd is (and comments on her expressions and how 'funny' she is, with warmth) She thinks dd won't stop talking when she gets going and that nursery are making a very big deal of it all!
DD is always happy to go to cm and more content when I pick her up, generally.
Nursery have often commented on how much 1 to 1 attention she needs and thought the aggression has been attention seeking and jealousy (their words)
Thanks getoffthecoffeetable for your comments about your ds. I had forgotten how hard toddlerdom is!!

PandaG Wed 14-Nov-12 20:49:17

action points sounds like badly explained IE(orP)P to me. Could be for both speech and behaviour, though I wouldn't (as a nursery senco) feel comfortable setting IEP speech targets without a Speech therapist's input.

TheReturnOfBridezilla Wed 14-Nov-12 20:55:10

Change nurseries. Seriously. This is not a school and you don't have to put up with this.

Ds' previous nursery raised concerns about his speech and development which were quite frankly bollocks. I felt he had been unfairly labeled and went to their "meetings" and eventually moved him. He couldn't be happier, I couldn't be happier. New nursery have no such concerns and he has come on in leaps and bounds and is starting school soon.

Perhaps a fresh start would be nice for your dd too. It doesn't sound as if she is getting on very well there.

cheekymonk Wed 14-Nov-12 21:04:29

Well its strange because i first mentioned concerns about speech but as dd's behaviour has worsened they have homed in on it more as well as asking about ds as i mrntioned once he could be a bit rough with her. Room leader asked cm what brother was like and cm told her straight that ds was fine, just a typical 7 year old with his baby sister! I just don't want too much upheaval and upset for dd but neither do i want her somewhere that she is unhappy. I plan on talking about it all with HV too and see what they suggest.
Should i arrange a meeting with nursery and give them a chance?

TheReturnOfBridezilla Wed 14-Nov-12 21:09:26

I once went to a meeting with the nursery because ds seemed anxious when other children took toys away from him. I remember thinking "Of course he does, he isn't even two yet and doesn't really understand about sharing." It was around this point this I started to doubt the nursery's wisdom. grin

dancinginthemoonlight Wed 14-Nov-12 21:15:55

Sounds like they are trying to cover the fact they don't have the experience in their staff to cope. It says slot to me that your cm has no major concerns

cheekymonk Wed 14-Nov-12 21:46:25

Really good points everyone, thank you. Will think on!

Badvocsanta Wed 14-Nov-12 21:51:04

Firstly, if she has an IEP (individual education plan) then you should have a copy, have signed it and it should be reviewed termed.
Agree with others.
I would keep her full time with the CM.
Wrt to the signing...the nursery are just wrong!
She is unhappy at nursery and happy with the CM
Bit of a no brainer, surely?
Good luck

Badvocsanta Wed 14-Nov-12 21:51:26

...reviewed termly that should have read!

SamSmalaidh Wed 14-Nov-12 21:51:34

Can you move her completely to the CM?

Sounds like she is not happy at nursery, she is very little - and as her behaviour is hard to manage they obviously have her on some kind of behaviour plan. Needing one member of staff just to shadow her is very difficult for the nursery to cope with.

If she is happier with the CM, and CM is managing her behaviour better, I would try to keep her there.

Viviennemary Wed 14-Nov-12 21:58:49

She sounds really unhappy at the nursery and I can't see the point of her continuing if there is an alternative and the CM will have her for more hours.

JiltedJohnsJulie Wed 14-Nov-12 22:01:16

Personally monk I wouldn't wait to talk it through with your HV, I would just ask your cm if she can take dd full time and if not, if she would consider putting her on a waiting list.

Your dd is obviously unhappy and the nursery don't seem to be coping very well. Just the fact that you don't like the room leader and they are talking out of their arise on baby signing would be enough for me. If your cm can't take her full time I'd ask her where she recommends.

My dd had delayed speech too. She went from odd words to full sentences in one day. If she can follow instructions and understands what you say then I wouldn't worry too much although I agree that signing should make her life feel a bit easier.

If you are worried about her speech did you know at you can self refer to speech and language therapy?

cheekymonk Thu 15-Nov-12 07:43:36

I am talking to nursery today to advise i am reducing hours which will start a conversation I am sure. Yes it is a no brainer, I know, it is rypical of me to think things too much rather than act.

Badvocsanta Thu 15-Nov-12 08:10:59

Look, I procrastinated for months even though I knew my ds1 was deeply unhappy at his pre school.
I can't tell you how much I regret that and I don't want to alarm you but it has had a huge and detrimental impact on him sad
Knowing what I know now I would be talking to nursery today and telling them she isn't going back and making her full time with the CM. the CM sounds great and your dd is happy there. She has a long time til she goes to school so dont worry about socialisation too much yet.
I don't want to denigrate all nurseries or pre schools but lets face it some of the staff aren't very well qualified and 16/17 year olds rarely have much life experience or experience of young children.

JiltedJohnsJulie Thu 15-Nov-12 08:52:14

Agree with bad. Our DS was unhappy at pre-school and I really regret not taking him out. When it was DDs time to go I insisted on staying with her for some settling in time and could see straightaway why DS was unhappy. They did nothing with them and the children just ran wild. The more sensitive ones were obviously distressed by all the noise and mayhem.

I took her to a day nursery nearby to see what it was like and within 10 minutes she had asked to go and play. Most of the staff were a bit older and very experienced and qualified. They did lovely things with them like getting them to grow their own vegetables which were used to make lunch. She was so, so much happier and I don't regret moving her but I do regret not moving DS.

If you are talking to the nursery, can they tell you what triggers the hitting? Is she being wound up? Is it during activities or freeplay? Is it always the same children?

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