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Warning to anyone with a child at nursery

173 replies

Heffalumpspots · 15/07/2012 10:58

Hi - I haven't posted on here before. I had a difficult pregnancy a couple of years ago, and lurked a lot and got a lot of reassurance from hearing what other people were going through but never got up the courage to post. However, we are in a terrible situation at the moment and I just need to try to let other parents know what can happen.

My daughter is now 27 months, and has been at a local day nursery two days a work for nearly a year. The nursery lost a manager through no fault of its own last summmer, and since then there has been no stable management. This had obviously been a matter of concern for us, but as it takes a long time to settle our daughter into a new environment and the staff seemed interested and caring we decided to leave her there. I wish, with every bone in my body, I could go back and change that decision.

Last week, a temporary nursery manager reported us to police and social services because our daughter had bruising on her body. They were small bruises, around her hips. The previous evening she had attempted to climb out of the bath, and I had grabbed her to stop her falling on the bathroom floor, and although I am not sure I remember seeing any marks at the time, the bruises are a fingerprint pattern where I caught her. The bruises were never anything other than brown/green/yellow and after less than 5 days had largely faded away.

The nursery manager made the decision to report this without so much as asking us how the bruising had been caused. She did not even wait to speak to me when I collected my daughter, despite knowing that the police would have contacted me. There is no deputy manager, and so far as I could gather in my very distressed state the member of staff who was left to meet me had had no involvement in the report.

As a result of this, we had police and social services turn up on our doorstep and demand that we take our daughter, immediately (at 6.30 in the evening), to a children's hospital which is over half an hour's drive from our home. There was noone there to examine her, and we had to return for well over an hour of examination and cross-examination the following day. We had been lead to believe, by police and social services, that this would be the end of the matter, but once we were in the examination it became apparent that once this process is triggered, it will inevitably take a number of weeks. We have no guarantee that our daughter will not be taken away from us, and even if it is concluded that no action needs to be taken against us this will remain on police and social services files for ever.

The effect of this on our little family is all just devastating. We are finding it very hard to keep going. I had very bad depression 5 or 6 years ago, which had not been a problem at all in the past few years, but I'm now constantly fighting a sense of absolute panic. I'd also worked hard to start to rebuild a career, and am left with no childcare and no idea how I am meant to trust my child to any kind of childcare again.

However, the things I wanted to let other people know - and which I wish to God I had known, are:

  • I have no idea how much 'spin' there has been in what we have been told, but there certainly seems to be a view that in any case where a child has bruises on their torso then all of this is justified. If that is the case, please, please don't send your child to nursery if they have any bruises on their torso - or if they could develop them. I didn't actually see my daughter's bruises in the morning before she went to nursery: I was dressing her half in the dark, and they could have developed later anyway.


  • If you have any concerns at all about nursery management, please, please get your child away from that setting. It doesn't matter how good the staff are, this kind of thing is always something which is decided by the manager. And it doesn't matter how they reached their judgement, because they are a 'nursery manager' the police are automatically involved when they make a report to social services.


  • If you find yourself in this awful situation, don't let yourself be strung along by police and social services giving the impression that all you need to do is let your child be examined. That is only the start of a process which will inevitably be hanging over you for weeks. From some of the information online, it seems as if we actually had a right to have a lawyer in the examination with us - we are going to take legal advice in the next few days.

Had we known the nature of the process we were engaged in, we would have insisted on doing that upfront. I am just hoping we don't live to regret, for all eternity, not having done so.
OP posts:
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HashtagJussayin · 15/07/2012 11:05

just nurseries? Hmm

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yousankmybattleship · 15/07/2012 11:08

This all sounds very strange. I know hundreds of people with young children and I have never nown any of them to be reported to Social Services. My children have all had plenty of bruises and other minor injuroes in their time and nobody has ever expressed concern. I wonder what else it could have been that worried the staff at your daughter's nursery.

Secondly it is very rare for social services to take children out of their families. If they have any concerns they will offer to work with you. Children are only removed as a final step where there is SERIOUS concern for a child's safety.

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WowOoo · 15/07/2012 11:08

Would you rather any bruises were simply ignored?
I think they're following protocol. If they ask you it gives you loads of time to come up with a reason.

I understand how you feel like this, but I think they are doing their job. As you have nothing to hide I think this is a really bad case of bad luck and suspecting the wrong people. It will be over soon. I hope it isn't for too long or any more stressful than it has been.

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LIZS · 15/07/2012 11:11

I'm sorry for your situation but I think this practice is fairly standard as part of a Safeguarding Policy - among health professionals, schools, colleges , care environments, daycare, churches and so on - and not dependent on any one individual or setting. Once a concern has been raised there are relatively few opportunities for discretion until the enquiries have been exhausted.

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Coconutty · 15/07/2012 11:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nailak · 15/07/2012 11:13

i think the normal procedure is to report these incidents in an internal book and then if there is any repeating patterns the senior managers notice it then report. Not after one incident. Has there been other times she has had bruising?

I think you should write and request the nurseries safeguarding policy.

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edam · 15/07/2012 11:13

I'm sorry you are going through all this stress. Sadly people do get it wrong with child protection - when I had my very basic safeguarding training to be a volunteer at ds's school, the social worker who took the course admitted there was a local case where SS and the police investigated for months because a little girl said 'Daddy hurt my noo-noo'. They ignored the family when they explained noo-noo was a soft toy that Daddy had put in the washing machine. The feckers. I do hope your case is resolved much sooner.

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quietlysuggests · 15/07/2012 11:22

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cuppateaandasliceofcake · 15/07/2012 11:27

They sound like quite large bruises to be honest and they are on an unusual place on your child's body. You've got nothing to hide so I wouldn't worry, they are just doing their job to protect your child

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PurplePidjin · 15/07/2012 11:28

Unfortunate as it is that in your case it's unnecessary, the nursery manager did the right thing. If Victoria Climbie, Baby P and too many other children had had this reaction, they would probably still be alive.

Finger shaped bruises on the torso are an indicator for serious abuse. Would you prefer a nursery that ignored that in case a parent/carer's feelings were hurt?

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Fiendishlie · 15/07/2012 11:41

Excellent advice from quietlysuggests there OP, hope it is resolved for you soon.

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treadheavily · 15/07/2012 11:48

How distressing for you.

You are in the thick of it right now but hold onto faith that this too will pass and your family will one day look back on this time and realise how things have moved on.

Unfortunately when help services are engaged, the feelings of those involved can be overlooked.

Do obtain legal advice, as well as professional support for yourselves, a kind counsellor or similar.

My dh and I were investigated by child services for suspected abuse and actually they were terribly kind and sensitive, it was all done within a week and they came out to tell us we were in the clear and to offer free counselling to help us through it.

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Sirzy · 15/07/2012 11:50

As awful as it is for you nurseries and other similar settings are in a no win situation if they report things they risk annoying parents, if they don't and something is happening they have to live with that.

Hopefully it will all be sorted soon and you can start to get back to normal.

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kilmuir · 15/07/2012 11:52

I would rather a person raised concerns than ignored them

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MoaningMingeWhingesAgain · 15/07/2012 11:55

I would be very worried about any childcare setting that ignored fingertip bruising on a small child, they did the right thing to get it checked out and followed the usual safeguarding procedure.

I'm sorry it was stressful for you.

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boredandrestless · 15/07/2012 11:56

Childminders, creches, schools, out of school clubs, etc ALL work to child protection policy. It's there to protect children.

I do know someone who had something similar happen and it was a terrible ordeal for the mum but it was all cleared up in the end (the parents were NOT abusive).

I've worked in childcare and have a young clumsy son, I would still use childcare for him!

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Jux · 15/07/2012 12:32

I am sure that you have nothing to worry about, but it really is better for your baby to be safe than sorry.

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Heffalumpspots · 15/07/2012 14:53

Of course I would not rather that these things were ignored. I just cannot conceive how anyone, professional or otherwise, could possibly reach such a judgement without even speaking to the parents. Obviously they would then need to reach their own conclusion, but failing to do so is utterly incomprehensible - and inevitably makes it much, much harder to even begin to get to grips with the situation.

I am a naturally very conservative and cautious person. If I had known that this string of events was even vaguely possible, I would simply never have left my daughter at that nursery. I would have put much more emphasis on finding somewhere where I was sure I had trust in the management, and I would have treated bruises differently (God knows how - I know that doctors have a duty to report as well, but had I been aware that this emphasis was placed on torso bruising I may well have decided that the safest policy was always to take her myself to a doctor if it happened).

I haven't been calm. I kept asking the police and social services what the process was that we were embarking on, they kept refusing to answer me, and I panicked. I have openly panicked at several times in the process, and God knows how much more process there still is to go. I have no idea how anyone is meant to feel safe as a parent if this kind of things is regarded as normal.

OP posts:
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cuppateaandasliceofcake · 15/07/2012 15:28

I think any decent childcare environment should report if they think a child is being abused, they may think that speaking to the parent 1st might make the situation at home worse. Sorry you're going through this though.

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Sirzy · 15/07/2012 15:32

Speaking to the parents is pointless. Staff aren't trained to decide what has happened and talking to parents does nothing but give them prior warning. No abusive parent would admit it.

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PurplePidjin · 15/07/2012 15:43

Telling the (potential) abuser that someone is onto them is the fastest way to escalate the situation.

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maples · 15/07/2012 15:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CagneyNLacey · 15/07/2012 16:10

I feel sick reading about what's happening to you, OP. So sorry you're going through this, I too would be very panicked and distrssed by this. I cant imagine how people could remain calm.

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Jux · 15/07/2012 18:58

Somene raised a query concerning dd a month or two ago - anonymous call to the Multi-agency support hub (it's a child protection thing). The first we knew of it was when we got a letter saying they had conducted and enquiry and found no further investigation was required. We didn't even know who, when or what the problem was, though we had a good idea of the problem as we have been well aware of dd's problems for a long time. However, we had no idea whether that was what had been reported or something completely different.

I was still glad that someone had been sufficiently concerned about her to report it.

It is upsetting, but it does mean that someone else is looking out for your child, and surely that is a good thing?

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Northernlurker · 15/07/2012 19:23

Bruising itself is not an issue. Nurseries and schools are full of children with bruises to areas like arms and legs and heads. Brusining to the torso is a difefrent matter. It's quite hard to bruise that area of the body accidentally. OP - your child had bruising to her hip area. Sounds like both hips? Of course that had to be investigated and your nursery followed the proper procedure. Had they asked you about it you could have given them an explanation - but so would any parent. Some children are abused in the home. The nursery acted to protect your child and yes it's horrible for you. That's no reason at all for people not to use nurseries.

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