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Mum who opened organic children's day nursery and organic nursery school needs your opinion before she opens more!

60 replies

organicmum · 05/11/2005 14:31

I am a mum of a 5 year old who was so horrified by what I saw children's day nurseries feeding my child (who was raised on breast milk, followed by as many organic foods as I could find), that in direct response to this my husband and I created a company in 2004 -- Organic Schools Limited with the sole purpose to open organic children's day nurseries and organic nursery schools in the UK. Our first, Hedgehog Hill Organic Nursery School, opened its doors in Greens Norton Northamptonshire on 1 February 2005 to much media fanfare (from the UK, Europe and USA), largely thanks to what Jamie Oliver was doing for children and school diners!

We are planning to open the next two organic day nurseries in Oxford and Milton Keynes starting next year; we have been asked by a major publisher in London to write a book about our experiences; and have been approached to open a national chain of organic children's day nurseries by investors. We therefore are in desperate search for the viewpoints of mums and dads on:

  1. what exactly are you looking for in a day nursery?
  2. what is the most important factor in making your decision:
    is it quality of food,
    quality of care,
    closeness to work, closeness to home,
    educational factors,
    cost,
    or that gut feeling you get when you go into a day nursery or nursery school and meet the managers and staff???

    and 3. What is it you dislike most about the children's day nurseries and nursery schools you have seen so far?

    Background on how we provide nursery care for children differently from the norm:
    Our organic children's day nursery not only provides organic food and drink. At least a dozen nurseries scattered throughout the country had been doing so since 1997 and we thought that was great, but thought "organic" could move beyond food in terms of caring for children. So in 2004 we developed an "organic curriculum" as well that includes all of the OFSTED recommended Birth To Three Matters and Foundations Stage education, but also includes regular sessions of ballet and modern dance; introduction to French Spanish and German through songs and rhymes; yoga; baby massage; musical instruction and drama (all taught by qualified instructors and at no additional cost to the parents).

    Our organic nurseries have indoor gymnasiums for active play rain or shine and give up to twice as much space to children than the recommended OFSTED requirements.

    We also operate with eco-friendly policies and teach children how to contribute to protecting the environment and the protection of animals through lessons and school practices like recycling, growing organic vegetables in their own garden, walking buses to school, etc. And have made a point of introducing our children to some lost country arts like felt making, spinning, pottery and basket making.

    We pay our nursery nurses more than the current market so we can recruit and keep only the best. And the first quality we look for in staff is: are they gentle, approachable and child friendly!!! Then we look at qualifications.

    But before all of this, we make sure every child feels safe, confident and happy. Because of all of this we have an organic children's day nursery that has practically filled in the first nine months of being opened.

    Our first organic nursery is nearly full so we do not need these forums for advertising (which would be silly any way, as most of you mums reading this would live miles away). 'Til now, we have done everything based upon our own opinions and those of our friends and families. We think "organic" is about much more than food and drink -- it involves the whole child including their minds, education, play and first experiences and quality of care. Our philosophy is: "growing healthy minds and healthy bodies", and we think this should start from birth.

    We need to hear from mums and dads everywhere, so a chain of healthy day nurseries and a book can actually meet the needs of parents and children instead of becoming just another "chain" putting money before children!

    Thanks for helping by giving us your opinions in this forum - which has already been incredibly helpful in helping us to stay on track with what mums think and want and need for their children.
OP posts:
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organicmum · 05/11/2005 14:34

PS I forgot to ask:
What is your greatest concern or fear about sending your child to nursery? It probably isn't quality of food!

OP posts:
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essbee · 05/11/2005 14:38

Message withdrawn

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ediemay · 05/11/2005 14:47

Hi, good luck with your business, it sounds as though things are going really well for you. I admire your policy to pay staff above the going rate, their work is so valuable and so poorly-paid. My son goes to a lovely nursery 2 days a week.

The most important factors for me were:

A homely atmosphere and genuinely caring staff
Play, play, play and more play
Closeness to where I work in case of any problems
A fair amount of time spent outdoors
Quality of food and cleanliness of the nursery

Things which put me off other nurseries were:

A 'business' feel
Staff in uniforms
Too much emphasis on learning - I feel school starts too soon anyway
Small spaces
Terrible menus
Not much outdoor play
Stale atmosphere and/or poor levels of cleanliness

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SueW · 05/11/2005 15:20

For me and most of my friends what was worst about nurseries was when they were national chains and no longer owner-operated and controlled but had a nursery manager who had to go by head office rules.

The idea of your becoming a national chain fills me with horror.

Another friend, let's call her Jane, has recently sold her nurseries - she owned two but said she didn't feel comfortable even expanding that much as she lost hands-on control. Coincidentally another friend has a child at one of the nurseries 'Jane' sold and has been very disappointed with service received since.

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mazzystar · 05/11/2005 15:23

Your nursery sounds fabulous. The values you are helping them to develop sound great. The only thing I would say is that I hope the children also get some time to diddle about and just "be".

My one year old goes to nursery 2 days and seems very happy. The owners are two mums who had wanted to improve on the choices they had for thier children. All organic food, lots of creative activities and has a great garden. The garden was really important in the decision, but above this was the attitude of the staff, who seem to be genuinely very fond of the children, as well as happy in their work.

Funnily enough food WAS up there with my worries...a good friend's baby was given meringue(!) on his first day...

I will consider moving him to a Montessori nursery when he reaches 2 1/2 because I feel its very beneficial to boys in dhelping them to get ready for school.

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Chandra · 05/11/2005 15:31

I have a child with lots of food allergies and it would help if the nursery would be able to catter for that (current nursery has been WONDERFUL trying to accomodate DS needs but I know how difficult it is to keep the food free from even when I only have child to care for). But the most important thing is that the child is in a neuturing environment where he feels loved, no matter how organic the food, if that were missing, I would not consider it for DS.

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Frizbe · 05/11/2005 15:52
  1. what exactly are you looking for in a day nursery?


Some where we feel safe in leaving our dd, where she feels happy and loved.

2. what is the most important factor in making your decision:

is it quality of food,
quality of care,
closeness to work, closeness to home,
educational factors,
cost,
or that gut feeling you get when you go into a day nursery or nursery school and meet the managers and staff???

It's all of the above! to be honest I prefer the dutch way of letting them play until they're 7 before attempting to teach them anything! learning through play is often a lot better than attempting to ram letters and numbers systematically in.......
Quality of food could certainly be better at our local nursery, but TBH the staff there are so good, it slightly makes up for the two days a week dd eats there......
Our nursery is close to home, so that helps us, but equally if I worked elsewhere (I work from home) close to work could be better......
Cost! well they could all be cheaper, but everyone has overheads and needs to make a profit somewhere! I'm happy to pay for quality where dd is concerned, but also aware that not everyone is lucky enough to be able to afford this? (ways around this for the less well off? or is decent child care for the rich?)


and 3. What is it you dislike most about the children's day nurseries and nursery schools you have seen so far?

I have seen some schools try to force alphabet etc learning on even the younger kids, which I don't think is necessary (as per Dutch example)
and as said above in some cases, food could be better! but then your doing that already!
Some places I've heard don't pay attention to detail, like providing daily reports for parents, or remembering to put on suncream/hats etc so I'd say its remembering the small things that make the bigger whole, that help.
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baka · 06/11/2005 02:48

agree with suew. Would you consider franchising so that someone with a vested interet was in day to day charge. We had a terrible time with a chain and I wouldn't go near one again.

The nursery we use now is owner managed and very caring. That's all I look for really (assuming something is safe and clean!).

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bubble99 · 06/11/2005 20:12

Oooooh! You could me me organicmum. We own and run two nurseries in SW London with exactly the same ethos and provision as you. Keep up the good work. In very little time we will be the model by which all nurseries will be run and the faceless, purely profit driven big boys will be history.

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HRHQoQ · 06/11/2005 20:19

Ooo - just had a look at this

TBH - it sounds a little too "pushy" for my liking, it all sounds rather, how do I put it, lets turn them into little academic greenies (no offence to the enviromentalists among us ) - introducing European Languages for instance ).

I'd want somewhere that let my children be themselves, and have fun, without too much emphasis on the 'learning' part of things.

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cardQUEENcod · 06/11/2005 20:21

LIke uniforms

like owners being involved in rooms
liek staff being encouraged to get more qualifications
love freindly greeting by memebr of staff on door
LOVE parents socials - my kids nrsery are fab at htese.

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cardQUEENcod · 06/11/2005 20:22

also my sons nursery really praises it staff int he newsletter and so on and I LOVE it that it emplys men

loev that - a real sellgin point.

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Witchycat · 06/11/2005 20:24

Sounds like a fantastic place for little ones to be and I'd be seriously interested if there was anything like this where I live. Here's some thoughts:

-My kids only go part time so although food is very important it was/isn't number one priority as they only ever had/have 5 meals pw there. This would probably be similar for alot of parents.

  • Where food is concerned though, what's really important to me is an understanding of needs. E.g. my vegetarian children have both been fed fish by mistake (followed by huge apologies, but still) and even the staff who always stick to veggie food have no concept of why the children are vegetarian - they assume it's to do with allergies not politics.
  • The general ethos of your places sounds wonderful. I would be seriously impressed with ours if they did more on environmental issues. I can't complain, ours have always been ok about the fact we use cotton nappies but some more encouragement to other parents would be great.
  • The single biggest factor for me is the way the staff seem to care for the children. By this I mean staff who are committed to the kids and who stay in post for more than 6 months and who take the time to get to know each child individually and nurture them. Staff who see them as people not as a job.
  • Another biggie for me is communication. I want a nursery to keep me informed, ask my opinions and enter into discussion if anything isn't right.

    Hope this helps and good luck opening a branch in every town!
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crunchie · 06/11/2005 20:24

Organicmum, I think I would echo what others have here a nationwide chain would be terrible. The whole problem is that they (investors) would be in it to make money, although they may talk the talk when it suits them (like now) they will very quickly change things when it doesn't. The franchise could be a way to go, selling to people who you can vet who would be 'owner occupiers' as such. They may then work more closely with the ethos you have created. Otherwise you will have a huge company full of faceless people.

Unfortuneatly if you don't expand/franchise a large company will, so it is certainly something to look at, but be careful.

BTW as a parent I had very different needs froma 'baby nursery' for dd1 at 6 months old, than I did with dd2 at 3 years. For instance outside space wasn't important, cleanliness and only babies 0 - 12 months in the room was.

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lalaa · 06/11/2005 20:25

things that put me off were when I went to visit a nursery and all the children looked miserable. they looked at the door when I came in mournfully (as though looking for mum, but I wasn't their mum), and the staff weren't doing anything to stimulate, entertain or amuse them.
It was the end of the day, but still - put me right off. It looked as though they didn't care.

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bubble99 · 06/11/2005 20:26

Cod. I'm pleased you're here. I'm half writing our nursery newsletter at the moment (and obviously not applying myself to the job in hand.) We're planning a christmas sing song, mince pie and mulled wine/coffee type thing. As a nursery parent, which time would suit you better? A.M. after a slightly later drop-off or P.M. after an earlier pick-up?

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cardQUEENcod · 06/11/2005 20:27

our nursery ones are at 6pm light snakcs etc and fatehr xmas arrives
photos are taken

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bubble99 · 06/11/2005 20:28

Question open to all nursery parents too, of course.

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cardQUEENcod · 06/11/2005 20:28

(ps am sure our nursery have somone on door duty every morning and afternoon)

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cardQUEENcod · 06/11/2005 20:29

so dads can come too
or maybe is it 5pm
anyway after school so allt he dses go

a ll the rooms are open wiht activites adn music and fairy lughts

they do these 4 tiems a year

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bubble99 · 06/11/2005 20:31

Door person at our nursery (the one I'm at Mon - Fri) is me, as the kitchen is by the front door. I also like uniforms and our staff wear black trousers and polo shirts/fleeces etc. Nurseries without uniform policies often end up looking sloppy IMO. We have a no bling and no high top trainers policy too.

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cardQUEENcod · 06/11/2005 20:31

so party sound good?

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ScummyMummy · 06/11/2005 20:32

I'm not sure how to put this without sounding mean but I think I would feel a bit put off by the very wholesomeness and perfection of your nurseries from the description you've given. I'd be worried that it was all a bit precious. I think that probably says more about my prejudices than your nursery though. I just feel really strongly that, while organic food and good facilities and French and ballet and yoga are not to be sneezed at, the fundamentals for a good nursery are none of those things. I'm thinking back a couple of years now but the things I loved about my children's nursery (which was in a porta cabin with paltry outside space, unfortunately) were the caring staff, play based approach, good special needs policy and practice, nice mix of kids, fact that i could afford it when we were pretty skint and most of all that my children were happy.

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gossifer · 06/11/2005 20:32

organicmum
good on you!
my son goes to a nursey similar to yours in london
he is mearly 9 months old and has been there for just over a month
my biggest worry is that there will not be someone there he 'knows' to comfort and sooth him in times of stress or upset

initially my gut feeling was important, but food is too
that the staff turnover is low and the staff happy/well treated/well paid/constantly trained is very importaant - if they are valued they will value our children and love them
cost not an issue - i know this is hard but it is our children and cost should not come into it, whatever it takes to make it right

hope this helps

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bubble99 · 06/11/2005 20:33

That's a good idea. Lots of our littlies have older siblings. I've already roped Mr Bubble in for santa duties.

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