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Fear of flying? Post a question to psychologist Patricia Furness-Smith and Pilot Captain Steve Allright - ANSWERS BACK

(85 Posts)
RachelMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 25-Jun-13 14:34:58

If you find flying a traumatic experience or avoid it altogether then we have help on hand this week. We're running a Q&A with Patricia Furness-Smith, a psychologist and psychotherapist with over 20 years of experience and Captain Steve Allright, a BA training captain on Boeing 747 and professional pilot who has clocked up over 10,000 flying hours. Patricia and Steve are authors of Flying with Confidence, a book based on the BA course. Both Patricia and Steve have been a member of BA's Flying with Confidence team for over 10 years.

Post a question to Steve and Patricia before the end of Monday 1st July and we'll post up their answer the following week on 7 July. Everyone who joins the Q&A will be entered into a draw to win one of three copies of Flying with Confidence. Watch out also for a page of tips from Steve and Patricia which we'll link to from this thread when it's live.

LeonieDeSainteVire Tue 25-Jun-13 17:15:03

Ok a simple question 'How do you stop being terrified of flying?'

I do fly but as my fear has got worse I have found I am avoiding/limiting flights where possible and it's starting to restrict my family so I would like to get over this. Also, although I have never had a panic attack, I really feel one might be likely on a plane and the thought of losing control like that is really worrying.

I understand, basically, the physics of flying and that it is a very safe form of travel etc but can't get over the fact that sometimes it goes wrong, and if it does go wrong there will be nothing I can do to protect my children. I know this is a fact so how can I accept it and not be paralysed with fear when I fly. And not only when the flight is imminent, we are flying on holiday in a few weeks and I've been waking up in a cold sweat thinking about it for months. I have Diazepam prescribed for the flight but tbh it has almost no effect, the fear is stronger!

Help!

justmuddlingalong Tue 25-Jun-13 17:20:48

During the flight, when the aircraft makes all the ding-dong noises, I panic thinking it's a code from the captain signaling to the air crew that something's gone wrong. Can you explain what these noises mean?

jamtoast12 Tue 25-Jun-13 17:36:07

I do not enjoy flying at all but even so still cant help watching all those air traffic investigation programmes. My question is... On occasions we hear that a planes engines can all go out and the pilot can land safely by gliding I.e the New York river landing. But then other times a plane can suddenly crash?! What's the difference? Surely if a problem occurs, could the pilot glide it down?!!!!

Mine is a slightly different question because I don't have a fear of flying, as such, but I do have a fear of vomiting. Do you think flying is less nausea-inducing than other forms of transport, and what would you suggest would help reduce the risk?

puffinnuffin Tue 25-Jun-13 21:18:12

Hello I am terrified of flying and haven't flown for 6 years. Just before that I did a 'Flying Without Fear' weekend course run by another airline. It involved hypnotherapy. After that I managed the flight to Guernsey (having not flown for 7 years before that).
I then managed another couple of 3-4 hour flights but on the way back from Italy we hit awful turbulence where meals and things started flying through the air. It was horrific and I felt like I was going to die. After that I vowed never to fly again! This really annoys my husband who travels all over the world and regularly flies.

We were recently invited to a wedding in India. I have always wanted to go there but in the end didn't go as I just couldn't cope with flying!

Is it possible to get over feeling like this and am I resigned to not fly any more? The thing I just can't cope with is turbulence and in my experience it always seems to hit over the alps. I also hate taking off and landing (also can't cope with things like roller coasters).

This sounds so silly written down. My fear of flying has become much worse since having children.

lastnightidreamt Tue 25-Jun-13 21:20:43

I have tried the Virgin 'Flying without Fear' course, but I still cannot get beyond the fact that the worst could happen. I also found it incredibly difficult to focus during the relaxation session.

Could you please recommend any therapies, such as hypnotherapy or CBT that would suit this phobia best?

(Leonie my fear is also greater than diazepam - how is that even possible!!?)

My landlord is a pilot and I quizzed him repeatedly about flying.

My fear has got progressively worse until 6hours of turbulence from St Lucia left me terrorised. I flew again after but I had five Valium!!! Five. They did nothing other than effectively trap me in my own body, my mind raced and raced with fear but my body didn't respond in a panic.

I know in my rational mind that flying is safe and normal but two questions, why do pilots not talk you through turbulence if its so normal. And if I really can't manage my fear are there short acting sedatives I could resort to?

JustGiveMeFiveMinutes Tue 25-Jun-13 21:33:06

Fantastic! I asked for somebody to do a webchat on this subject some time ago. I'll be watching with interest because I've developed a fear since having my family.

JustGiveMeFiveMinutes Tue 25-Jun-13 21:35:57

I should ask a question I guess. I'm a bit wary of the experience and competence of the pilots of budget airlines and holiday company airlines compared to BA, Virgin etc airlines. Is this a justified fear?

SwedishEdith Tue 25-Jun-13 22:00:08

Watching. Just reading this has made me realise how this has got worse over the years My dp is even worse and his fear has transferred to me. I just read out the incident about food flying through the air and he said he would never get in a plane again if that happened!

I cannot get over two things:

That if a plane crashes I, and even worse, my children, will know for quite some time what is about to happen and

I try mind tricks (like if you imagine something happening then that is never how it turns out i.e imagine crashing) But then I think that people who have died will have also tried the same technique...

I need to book some flights soon and I'm hesitating, thinking I wish there was another way to get there.

So, techniques for getting a grip please?

Wiifitmama Tue 25-Jun-13 22:09:27

My question is: why has my fear of flying got so much worse over time? I have been flying since I was a baby. Very international well traveled family. I never had any fear at all until about ten years ago. Nothing specific started it off. It has got worse and worse. The last flight was a tight are. Only a short flight from Venice to London and I was nearly hysterical over what felt like extreme turbulence to me, but nothing to anyone else. It has totally put me off the idea of a holiday abroad. I also find the turbulence (even mild) makes me nauseous.

So, why has it got worse?

loopyloou Tue 25-Jun-13 22:18:21

I am terrified when flying and would appreciate an explanation of how exactly a plane stays in the air and also what causes turbulence and when is it dangerous?

CocktailQueen Tue 25-Jun-13 22:26:37

Oh, this is a great thread. I used to travel all over the world with dh - to New Zealand, Canada, Samoa, America. But since we had kids, I have got more and more scared of flying, helped by a couple of incidents like being hit by lightning and an aborted landing. Now, if I think about flying, I am terrified - I am sick, get diarrhoea, and can't help thinking about our entire family dying in a plane crash. Please, please, what can I do to help myself so that I can go on holiday with my family??

sillymillyb Tue 25-Jun-13 22:36:03

Oh a fab thread - I too have tried the virgin fear of flying course, sedatives, hypnotism and finally, learning in as much detail as possible about planes and how they work etc. None have worked, and like others, my fear has just got worse now I have a child.

Am I a lost cause? What else could you recommend? I am a lone parent and my sons dad lives abroad, it honestly fills me with the dread the thought of putting my son on a plane - to the point where I considered moving to his country (by boat! ha!) just to avoid this journey :S

What is the most effective way to combat fear? What other avenues left are there for me to try?

AngryFeet Tue 25-Jun-13 22:43:36

My question is regarding turbulence. If it isnt dangerous how can you explain the Air France crash a few years ago?

Hassled Tue 25-Jun-13 22:50:28

Not so much a question as a sort of observation - I have been scared of flying for years and years but one thing that really helped was watching a programme (about some woman having an intensive "overcoming your fear" course) and they explained about the doors. That was one of the many things that freaked me out - they look so flimsy. But the programme showed the door mechanism and the inner bolt thingies and that really helped me - a trifling, little thing that made such a difference.

How can that be extended? Is there an easy way that little bits of mundane but actually really useful information could be disseminated?

loopyloou Tue 25-Jun-13 22:50:45

Another question I have is do viruses/illnesses get spread over the air in a plane as I have read the same air is pumped through continuously? I suffer from illness anxiety and worry about this.

Thesebootsweremadeforwalking Tue 25-Jun-13 22:54:56

Watching with interest. Like a pp ^ I am now a bit scared of flying but wasn't before DCs. Is this change after children a common experience? (I still fly, but no longer do so without fear IYSWIM.)

sunandstars Tue 25-Jun-13 23:31:56

My fear is also turbulence.

I also don't like rollacoasters or heights and I have a fear of nausea and vomiting steming from hyperemesis in pregnancy - so not alot going on really grin. i know from having had CBT ,it must all be due to lack of control and fearing the worst and it is about confronting the fear as avoidance doesn't help.

Just can't bring myself to book another flight.

I don't have any fear of the plane crashing,and do trust the pilots and engineers completely from a safety aspect.
But... I hate the fact that turbulence can occur at any time and you don't know how long it will last and how bad it will be. As soon as it gets a little bit bumpy I expect it to get worse. You can't get off if you don't like it!

I had flown happily for quite a few years,but this fear began on a flight into Innsbruck when landing consisted of 15/20 mins of moderate turbulence due to proximity to the mountains. On the flight back I was petrified and spent most of it gripping the seat arms.

My last flight to France the flight out was fine,and I was thinking ok flying isn't too bad.
Then,on the way back we had an unexpected drop ( the ones where half the flight screams!),where 2 out of 3 stewardesses were injured as they were serving at the time - one was burnt by the hot tea and the other injured her leg and had to lay flat across a row of seats and was wheeled out in a wheelchair at the end of the flight before the passengers.

This unfortunately did help to confirm my fears that I can be subject to turbulence on any flight to a really unpleasant frightening degree and I now have avoided flying on holiday for 3 years and can't book a holiday involving flying.

Turbulence of some degree is normal when flying. This is what I can't deal with.

ToffeeWhirl Wed 26-Jun-13 07:52:25

No question, but I'm marking my place to show this thread to my DH who is phobic about flying. It started after a turbulent flight and he has tried hypnotherapy, but it didn't work. On our last flight (to Spain), he very nearly couldn't get on the plane and only managed it with the help of a betablocker. Now he won't fly at all.

CaptainJamesTKirk Wed 26-Jun-13 08:07:35

I too am afraid of flying. I avoid doing it at all costs and haven't done it at all since I became a mum.

What frightens me most is that these aircraft are always flying they barely ever stop (I think). I mean they do an 8 hour flight and then have a 1-2 hour turn around and then they're flying again. And the process is repeated. I worry about stress and wear and tear on aircraft, especially as some are very old. Your car couldn't cope with that and it doesn't have 4 jet engines and fly at 40000 feet.

On top of that the volume of aircraft in the air, I've seen the flight tracker apps. Are our skies getting too full?

I know you are all professionals, but pilots are not miracle workers if a plane is suddenly no longer air worthy. Air traffic control near misses are not unheard of and I know there are aircraft engineers to maintain the aircraft but they work through the night, people working overnight are statistically more likely to make mistakes because we are designed to be asleep.

Can you see how I've over thought this?

Can you reassure me that these aircraft are definitely air worthy, honestly (even on budget airlines)?

Thank you.

PeggyBabcockBoot Wed 26-Jun-13 19:32:46

I fly half a dozen times a year, but have always been scared of the plane take off and landing and hate that acceleration feeling on the runway. I spent most of my flights staring intently at the Flight Attendants faces, gauging whether they look concerned at the bumps and pings.

Couple of questions if I may?:

I worry about the angle of the plane on take off. Have there been many cases of airplane tails/back ends dragging on the ground and causing crashes? What stops this from happening (probably an insane question, but one of my concerns upon takeoff).

What happens if take off is not achieved? Is the plane capable of slowing down again before the end of the runway?

Do most crashes in the air happen in the cloud layer where there is less visibility? Should I add this to my long list of worries?

What happens if the wheels fail (i.e. don't come down). Are there a back up set?

After landing, what happens if the brakes fail to slow the plane - does it have to take off again, and has it got the capability to take off again?

mummylin Wed 26-Jun-13 19:54:52

I too hate flying. The minute I get on a plane I remember the plane that caught fire even before it took off and people died. Like a previous poster the only way I get through the flight is to watch the air hostesses faces. I think in my case it's more the utter fear of crashing more than the actual flight. How do you get relaxed enough to fly without the awful fears ?

PigeonPair Thu 27-Jun-13 10:07:32

So pleased to have found this thread.

I am scared of flying but love Air Crash Investgation/Seconds from Disaster.

I am not so bad that I can't get on a flight but last time I flew I had a glass of wine at the bar at the departures gate. I asked them to put it into a paper cup so I didn't look like a lush (it was 9.30am).

I have tried Diazepam and it does help a bit.

I do not want to pass on my anxiety to my children. Their Daddy died last month and he was a good flyer so balanced me out. Actually, when I think about it, reassuring them does make me feel more in control.

I think a lot of it for me is the lack if control. If you are in a car, on a boat, or a train, you at least have a CHANCE of getting out alive if something happened. With a plane crash, the chances are very slim and there would be a slow build up to the inevitable.

The upside is that at least we would all be together.

I also spend the whole flight watching the flight attendants - not just to check their faces, but to check if the drinks trolley is coming my way!

Can't wait to read the replies to this. Great initiative Mumsnet.

Flyingtree Thu 27-Jun-13 11:48:39

Do the budget airlines repair their planes with budget secondhand parts from that Chinese air plane parts wholesaler!

Do budget airlines have a poorer safety record!

Flyingtree Thu 27-Jun-13 11:51:08

In the event of an inevitable difficulty, would a pilot really be composed enough to think he has a responsibility to land this aircraft if he can amd save hundreds of lives on board so he can get home to his family, or would he panic, give up, and let the inevitable happen, a bit like the Costa Concordia cruise ship capsize where the captains are supposed to go down with the ship (well not literally, but in tis case he abandoned it when he could have stayed and helped people off).

Flyingtree Thu 27-Jun-13 11:53:04

Would I be able to get off the plane at the point the engines start revving to take off if I become hysterical?

madinmay Thu 27-Jun-13 14:32:50

This is fab. My fear too is getting worse but to the extent i cannot fly without my family. As far as dd is concerned i am just a miserable cow on flights because i want to be left to read my book. What is actually happening is i am staring at a page without reading waiting for the first bit of turbulence. Family live in the US and nag us to visit, i avoid where possible and now after reading our bloody weather will also result in more atlantic turbulence, they've got little chance of us visiting hmm. My questions are pretty much most of the above, but especially about turbulence and storms.

diabolo Thu 27-Jun-13 15:50:47

I have to take Diazepam to fly, although this is a recent fear, back in my 20's I loved flying. I have, in the last few years, developed anxiety issues around claustrophobia. I'm not scared of flying as such - I'm scared that I will have a panic attack due to being in an enclosed space and that I will freak out and try and open the doors at 30,000 feet and kill myself and everyone else on board.

The diazepam helps a lot, makes me feel calm and happy and I've been OK during flights for the last couple of years, but get really stressed out for several weeks before flying.

My question is: are all your staff trained to restrain someone if necessary? If I do "freak out" mid-flight what will the cabin crew do to me?

dappledawn Thu 27-Jun-13 16:44:54

I don't like flying but have learnt to grit my teeth and put up with the fear. My 9 year old son has Asperger's and is terrified of it - the last trip I took him on, he screamed for most of it (and it was a 12 hour flight!) Is it OK to sedate him? if so, with what? Will the doctor give me prescription just for the flights? I couldn't bear a repeat of the last time.

coorong Thu 27-Jun-13 17:38:42

I get a bit scared flying, but realised that its simply a control thing and boredem. When I've flown in the cockpit, I'm much happier. My fear was passed from my mother (she was in a plane crash - survived a pretty horrific crash landing). She flies on beta blockers but grips the arm rest. I used to fly a lot as a child, fokkers, cessnas lots of very small planes. I think it's the whole ceremony of flying that winds me up - all that security stuff. I much prefer train travel, so much less hassle (unless I'm flying back to Oz of course). But to Europe, much prefer the train.

toffeefee Thu 27-Jun-13 17:39:59

I used to have a massive fear of flying. I read many books on this subject to try to get rid of my fear. IMO you can't read your way out of a phobia. It just doesn't work. My last flight as a nervous flyer saw me sobbing on take off, rushing to the back of the plane as soon as the 'fasten seat belt sign' had gone off in search of cabin crew to reassure me, then taking way too much diazepam and drooloing my way home! My DS (age 3) even gave me his favourite teddy to help me feel better. I couldn't go through that again. I went on one of the well known flying without fear courses. Its was fantastic. I answered all of the questions that you are all raising. In fact, answered them in such a way that I no longer question anything.

I can sense the fear in so many of these posts. Whoever asked about the air france flight and turbulence, it wasn't the turbulence that caused the crash, it was human error. you can look up flight accident reports for the full facts. Whoever asked about the dings in the cabin. It's usually cabin crew asking for more chicken, or coffee! No hidden messages or secret codes. (I have a friend who was cabin crew for many, many years!).

You can get over this fear. I have. I am free again! smile

ifyouletmefinish Thu 27-Jun-13 17:43:22

I feel much better knowing i am not the only one who thinks the dings are the captain signalling the SOsS!

Ebe1925 Thu 27-Jun-13 18:17:25

This has come at very appropriate time for me. I am currently off work due to generalised anxiety which I now realise had been building for a long time. I had recently started a new job and part of that involves travel - it was being due to fly which was what tipped me over the edge so to speak.

I had never had the opportunity to fly until 8 years ago (yes I was in my forties and had never flown!!) I was very apprehensive about flying but managed it by talking non stop to the person I was with. This time was different as I had to fly by myself with no one to be my distraction. I got so worked up about it and in the end couldn't go to the airport and then went into meltdown.

I am not entirely sure what exactly I am afraid of apart from the fear of being afraid and having some kind of a panic. One part is that something so big and heavy shouldn't stay in the air. Another part is that there is no way out - you can't just get off a plane or open a window if you need to. When I have flown, I found the taking off and landing quite scary. Looking out of the window was fascinating but also scary. But the worst was when the plane suddenly dips, or the engine sounds like it's stopped, or when there is some turbulence.

I am having CBT at the moment for my overall problems - at some stage there will be not just how I will manage going back to work to tackle but also the travelling to deal with so some constructive help on this point would be massively useful if I am to return to my job.

Southfarnhammum Thu 27-Jun-13 18:34:26

I have developed a fear of flying since having children. I used to fly all over the world without any worries at all. My Dr has prescribed Diazepam and I'm hoping that will do the trick. Are there other techniques that I could try? I have tried hypnotherapy very successfully in the past which cured my crippling fear of spiders. I now just dislike spiders but they no longer terrify me. The trouble with a fear of flying that unlike arachnophobia, there is some logic to it.

SwedishEdith Thu 27-Jun-13 18:44:59

Hmm, saying the Air France crash was human error is somehow not reassuring grin

Agree it's all about loss of control for me and fear of crashing/dying not flying. I understand flight, in theory, so not worried about that. But can't control a flock of birds/tired pilot/metal fatigue not spotted/bomb etc.

JustGiveMeFiveMinutes Thu 27-Jun-13 20:18:32

So sorry diabolo I know it ISN'T funny to have a fear of flying but I pmsl at your question about wanting to know how they'll restrain you if you decide to kill all the other passengers.

toffeefee Thu 27-Jun-13 20:53:10

But swedish, you have to remember that after every bad thing that happens on a plane, there are investigations, reports, re-training, changes in many ways which help it from never happening again. That doesn't happen in a car/bus/train. Human error is unavoidable, but to me it a reassuring that it was not anything to do with the actual plane that failed. With retraining it will help something that was very improbable in the first place from happening again.

meerkate Thu 27-Jun-13 21:14:15

Ooh I feel at home on this thread grin

I have flown frequently since early childhood, then inexplicably became very frightened of it in my late 20's. It's turbulence for me too, I confess - I know it's not (supposed to be...) dangerous but I just HATE it. I am perfectly fine until the first (even titchy) bump and then that's it - knuckles white on the armrests until it's over - even if that's two hours later.

I have tried diazepam and many homeopathic remedies, Bach Rescue Remdedy etc etc but haven't found any of them helpful.

Over the years I have improved.

Two things helped:

1/ going on the brilliant Fear of Flying course at Manchester Airport - really helpful and I recommend it unreservedly (I can't remember its name but I am sure they are all broadly similar) and

2/ learning some simple meditation techniques. Now I try to use them at the first sign of turbulence. I try to breathe deeply and calmly and somehow 'go within'. Basically while doing this, I am - without wanting to sound melodramatic!! - preparing to die. I figure it's best to confront the worst-case scenario - Death By Crash - and prepare for it! I realise this tip won't help everyone grin

Watching this thread with interest...

PigeonPair Thu 27-Jun-13 22:10:55

I thought the pings were passengers pressing their buttons to get the flight attendants to come to them?

SimLondon Thu 27-Jun-13 22:30:13

A couple of weeks ago there was a serious incident when a plane left Heathrow with engine covers left open and a subsequent engine fire - a real chance of a serious disaster, those covers were supposed to have been checked by two different staff members and that was a BA not a budget flight. How can we be sure that corners aren't being cut?

Here's my story - it has a happy ending!

I had a fear of flying that built to the point where I was physically sick before going to the airport, the flight was a horrendous endurance test and my holiday was spent worrying about the return flight. I also couldn't get in a lift, which was more of a day-to-day pain as I worked in a building where everyone took the lift & I couldn't. Couldn't face the thought of going on the Tube in London again so went everywhere by bus which sometimes took for ever. Then I had a panic attack in a supermarket when I couldn't see the exit, which was when I realised I had to do something.

I searched for a Claustrophobia hypnosis CD but couldn't find one, so bought Paul McKenna's 'Fear of Flying' CD. I played it a couple of times and it gave me the confidence to start using the lift. It was brilliant smile. It tells you that you enjoy flying, and when it actually came to getting on a plane I waited for that panicky feeling and it didn't come. It was like getting on a bus. SO that was a few years ago, have flown a few times since, no probs. But I was still having nightmares about the Tube, but this March I did it. Two stops on the Tube. grin

I've heard it's about being in control - you have to be prepared to hand over control to the pilot, pray or cross your fingers, and then just sit back and trust that s/he does his/her job competently.

sillymillyb Thu 27-Jun-13 23:26:44

meerkate that made me laugh, I once spent a flight back from holiday sat next to someone repeating over and over, "it's fine, were all going to die and it's going to be horrible, but well, that's fine, I'm ok with it" in obviously some sort of similar mediative state to yourself. It didn't help me much but they proclaimed themselves good fliers once we had landed!!

timidviper Thu 27-Jun-13 23:52:05

I don't like flying but, for me, it is when we are up in the air and I think the engines are stopping. The note of the engine seems to drop until I feel sure it is about to stop. On our last flight I had about half an hour of battling panic despite Valium and several gins blush Any thoughts or advice please?

ExcuseTypos Fri 28-Jun-13 00:05:06

I don't like flying but that isn't my main problem. My main worry is if we all get on plane then there is a delay. I've heard of people sitting on the plane for hours and not being allowed out. That really freaks me out and like others have said I think I would completely panic and start getting hysterical.

Why aren't people allowed to get off the plane if its just going to sit there? Thank you

cookiemonstress Fri 28-Jun-13 12:39:27

Read this and wanted to reply.

What some of you might be interested to know is that for 5 yrs I was long-haul cabin crew with BA. I come from a family of cabin crew and pilots and have always LOVED flying, airports...often the flight was the most exciting part of the holiday. And yet despite all my experience and knowledge, when I had children, I started to feel differently about it, honestly a bit anxious about the whole process. And so I think its useful to understand the relationship between the 2 things and hopefully that's something the psychologist can explain. I have no reason to feel anxious because I have witnessed the safety, training and rigour that goes into flying, I understand turbulence, the sounds of the engine and yet I still do from time to time. Having flown with lots of very nervous flyers (grown men crying uncontrollably for example), it does seem to help to understand the mechanics of what's going on, not just the engines but also why the crew behave in certain ways and remember that hours and hours of training are invested in cabin and flight crew, with the single aim of managing our safety. I also find it helpful to try and block out everyone else and just focus on me in my seat (window seat is easier for doing this, blind down if it helps).

The captain will do a much better job than me of answering all the technical questions but to answer a few quick questions from what I know. The dings are mainly all passenger calls bells (normally because someone's headset isn't working!) or calls between crew between cabins (there are internal phones). Again these are generally all innocous, such as not enough peanuts in the back galley or locating 28f's veggie meal. The dings are def not coded messages!

To the lady who has a fear of vomiting. I myself have the same fear and also a fear of those vomiting around me. It almost stopped me from taking the job of cabin crew in the first instance and is the bain of my life. In my experience (and believe me I am hyperaware of any vomiting activity, it drives my husband mad with my vomiting vigilence), far less people vomit on flights than you would expect and when it does happen it tends to be due to other reasons such as illness, anxiety or just plain exhaustion sometimes on long haul flight. Whole weeks of flying would go past and I would not be aware of any vomiting on board which makes me think that it isn't nausea inducing, unless someone is feeling anxious.

Now, if this thread was about ferries, I wouldn't be as positive. I do not do ferries! Ever.

Good luck to everyone.

HRHwheezing Fri 28-Jun-13 12:56:48

My husband is an airline captain and could answer all of your answers.

But funnily enough, I hate flying since I have met him. I won't fly in bad weather because I know how bumpy it gets. I hate turbulence since a transatlantic flight dropped and people were screaming.

It gets bumpy over mountainous areas because of the thermals that are created. That's why Italy and Spain can be bumpy.

I thought the air France accident was due to parts in the wing freezing up so they didn't know how fast they were going and the wings stalled.

HRHwheezing Fri 28-Jun-13 13:04:49

It is in my husband's interest to save himself rather than a computer which might give up.

As for the engines changing noise, it's like a car changing gear, you need more power for certain things, so it changes accordingly.

He says a plane's engine can stop but you can glide a long away, and it's unlikely both engines will go. They have something called etops, that allows planes to fly certain distances from an airport.

meerkate Fri 28-Jun-13 19:45:24

sillymillyb - YES! exactly. I too just close my eyes and repeat, slightly manically, a mantra along the lines of 'it's fine. death is inevitable. it comes to us all. this is going to be a somewhat unpleasant and momentarily terrifying death, true, but lots of deaths are like that on the ground too.' etc etc etc
(...while another part of me is silently screeching 'AAAARGHHH!!! Don't wanna DIE!!!!!!!!')
HRH loving the husbandly detail, thanks. on the course I went on, the BA pilot told us that turbulence was nothing to worry about - merely the equivalent of a bike going over cobblestones. I love that (though I have slipped and fallen on cobblestones quite a few times on my bike hmm)

Protego Sat 29-Jun-13 12:11:03

I used to fly and liked take-off but after that it was plasticy and boring! Now I would not fly because of the risk of being unlucky enough to be on a flight with a virus shedder - Saudi SARS or vH7N9 or a new Swine 'Flu!
Until airlines bother to do some basic precautions eg body temperature scanning of passengers BEFORE boarding (cheap easy and non-invasive) which would reduce if not eliminate the risk (some people can shed virus but not be ill) I will not be flying!
Ah - were you only talking about irrational fears here? hmm

Wannabuyawatch Sat 29-Jun-13 14:28:15

I feel different as I don´t have a fear of the plane crashing or anything going wrong. My fear is simply that I am terrified of having a panic attack and there is nothing I can do do escape the situation. I had been getting much better but had an awful panic attack on my last flight for no reason whatsoever. I just sat for the rest of the flight in complete misery, hot, sweating, unable to open my eyes and just wanting it all to be over. I am desperate to get over this, but have tried CBT; hypnotherapy, psychotherapy and alcohol therapy! Only thing I have done is taken beta blockers/valium but I am scared to. I don´t want to limit my children´s life because of this and would do anything to be cured!!

chimchar Sat 29-Jun-13 14:57:35

Watching with interest.

My general anxiety is terrible at the moment.

I can't go in lofts, the tube or anywhere too small or enclosed. I even got panicky in the theatre at christmas time because I thought I could feel the upper circle creaking and moving.

I don't have an issue with flying particularly, mine is more the claustrophobia.

My question is where is the best place to sit on the plane to maximise the feeling of space around you?

Also, do cabin crew know how to manage some one in the throes of a panic attack or would I be left on my own to manage.

This thread is making me feel a lot less alone with my anxieties.

My flying anxiety is so bad that I have actually cried reading the posts on this thread. If I am driving near an airport and a plane flies overhead, landing or taking off, I begin to shake.

I won't fly without my children as I don't want to leave them without a mother. We emigrated to Australia two years ago and I really don't think I can face visiting home.

I have almost not got on several flights, and completely broke down and just didn't get on one, even with several kind and patient stewards trying to help me on. My husband was pissed that we didn't go on that hol, to say the least. I didn't fly for almost 5yrs at one point, and any time I do force myself now, I spend the flight in tears. Diazepam and beta blockers don't work.

I also fear heights, being driven by other people on motorways, and public transport in general. Oh, and I have a phobia of other people vomiting near me. So really im just fine and dandy!! hmm

I suppose my question is, can someone with such an extreme fear ever be 'cured', and what would it take? I'd really love to be able to fly for my children's sake, and not let them pick up on my fear.

ToffeeWhirl Sun 30-Jun-13 11:40:04

Oh, Lil, that sounds really miserable, especially as you can't fly home. Have you had CBT to tackle any of these anxieties?

I asked my DH what it was, in particular, that scared him about flying and he said he couldn't say because it was everything! He worries about what the flying does to your body (he has suffered quite bad pains after flying), he worries about not having enough oxygen on the flight, he worries about the plane crashing, terrorists taking it over, etc etc. I was exhausted just listening to him. For the moment, it's not a problem because we can't go anywhere anyway, but he said he'd like to see Australia one day and doesn't think he'll ever be able to do that.

Fozsjobear Sun 30-Jun-13 17:32:55

I used to fly quite often but like others on here my fear has only started since I became a mum. I've read the Allen Carr easyway book about flying and it does help for a few days before my holiday but as I'm boarding I always fall apart. The last time I flew wih my 3 year old I cried pretty much through the whole 2.5hr outbound flight much to his amusement! I understand that flying is safe but it's the fact that if something happened we would know and be completely helpless as the plane came down. Is there something that will permenently help to ease my fear or will I always have to resort to alcohol (even before a 7am flight!) whilst sobbing on my kids shoulders???

S3BFD Mon 01-Jul-13 00:25:24

I am not scared of flying at all but my husband is. He has never been on an aeroplane so I feel he is frightened irrationally about something he has never even experienced (good or bad). He also claims to have a fear of heights.
He actually blames his parents for never taking him on a plane as a child & surprise, surprise his mother had a fear of flying which I believe she has more than likely imposed in my husband's mind.
His opinion is if an aeroplane has a fault - 100% chance you crash - 100% guarantee you die.
The problem is I love holidays abroad & I am finding him very restrictive. Now we have children he will not let me taken them on a plane & I will not holiday without them. It is causing me to resent him. I am fed up of going to Butlins/Haven.
Now the clincher - my husband is a rather unreasonable person. He will not talk about his fear (just bites my head off), will never entertain hypnotherapy, refuses flying fear course & will not take sedatives to fly.
What else can I do? I do not want my kids to end up scared to fly like him.

IndigoBarbie Mon 01-Jul-13 21:20:44

An old friend told me that I'd to remember that the captain LOVES to fly and that's why he does his or her job so well, that made me feel a bit better. I do seem to be oversensitive to the up/down/sidey ways movements that I seem to feel when I sit in my seat, and for me - taking off to reach cruising height is the bit I don't like......

Yeah Toffeewhirl, it is a bit miserable at times, especially concerning the kids, I definitely feel that I restrict them and absolutely don't want to to that and try my utmost not to. But sometimes my irrational side takes over and I can't help it.

I've not had cbt, doctor used to just keep giving me more medication hmm, but it's definitely something I need to get under control.

LatinForTelly Mon 01-Jul-13 22:59:26

Blimey, just did huge long post and lost it all grrr.

So, to try and be a bit more brief, I was v confident, frequent flyer as a child and young adult. Had one slightly frightening flight. Then 9/11 happened which made me worse, and now with children I am even worse.

I have an overactive imagination and terrifying dreams before I fly. I think terrible thoughts about what might happen. (Eg DS has a medical condition. I take extra med supplies on board in case of a hostage situation grin)

Although I'm not woo, I imagine the hand of fate in flights and that, for example, if I nearly miss a flight, it's a sign I shouldn't fly.

Have had hypnotherapy, which helped a bit, but I find I can't do it when flying with young children.

I manage about 3 short return flights a year at the moment to see close family, with a great deal of trauma and stress. I want to be free of this and be able to travel without the ordeal, and maybe even go further afield when the children are older.

I do understand the mechanics of flying, and even the statistics. I don't know why I spend a short flight in a constant state of fear, when I don't walk along a pavement constantly expecting to be mown down by a car, for example. What can I do?

RachelMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 02-Jul-13 11:00:00

The Q&A is now closed. We're going to go through the thread now and find 20 questions that we feel are representative of those being asked and send them over to the experts. It's clear from the volume of posts that this is an issue that affects a lot of people so once we get the answers back next week we'll upload them to an archived Q&A page with some general tips from Steve and Patricia. We'll post on this thread when the answers are back.

LaraMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 08-Jul-13 12:36:17

We now have the answers back from Patricia and Steve, and I will be posting them up shortly.

mirai Mon 08-Jul-13 12:49:07

So glad I've seen this. Looking forward to reading the answers!

Woodenpeg Mon 08-Jul-13 14:53:21

me too. I feel sick already... proper panic attack stuff. How long do we think it will take?? marking place

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 16:21:21

LeonieDeSainteVire

Ok a simple question 'How do you stop being terrified of flying?'

I do fly but as my fear has got worse I have found I am avoiding/limiting flights where possible and it's starting to restrict my family so I would like to get over this. Also, although I have never had a panic attack, I really feel one might be likely on a plane and the thought of losing control like that is really worrying.

I understand, basically, the physics of flying and that it is a very safe form of travel etc but can't get over the fact that sometimes it goes wrong, and if it does go wrong there will be nothing I can do to protect my children. I know this is a fact so how can I accept it and not be paralysed with fear when I fly. And not only when the flight is imminent, we are flying on holiday in a few weeks and I've been waking up in a cold sweat thinking about it for months. I have Diazepam prescribed for the flight but tbh it has almost no effect, the fear is stronger!

Help!

A large number of people have the prospect of their holiday spoilt by suffering from anticipatory anxiety and living in fear of a panic attack. In addition some people like your self find that medication doesn't help them a great deal. As this is upsetting your sleep patterns I recommend that you deal with it sooner rather than later. Reading the book, Flying with Confidence, will equip you with the skills to prevent a panic attack so this will empower you enormously and help you to get out of the vicious circle you have found yourself in. You are now not only worrying about the flying but also worrying about your potential reaction to the flying as in you fear a panic attack. You are therefore indoctrinating yourself with negative ideas, which will only serve to make the fear greater. Many people find the knowledge from the book is sufficient to remove their concerns as myths are debunked and are replaced by facts about safety. I hope that you have a wonderful relaxed holiday once you have challenged your attitude to flying.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 16:23:20

justmuddlingalong

During the flight, when the aircraft makes all the ding-dong noises, I panic thinking it's a code from the captain signaling to the air crew that something's gone wrong. Can you explain what these noises mean?

There are several things which cause "ding-dong noises" all of which are entirely routine. The most common is the on board inter phone system, another the signal from the flight deck to all cabin crew that the aircraft is about to take off, and when the seat belt sign is turned on or off you will also hear a chime. Every exit door and most galleys on board an aircraft have an interphone station where crew can communicate with each other routinely, for example, if they have run out of orange juice in one cabin and need more bringing up. The ding dong is NOT an indicator of serious disaster. It is important to remember that in the extremely rare event that there is a technical problem, for example that may cause you to divert, you will be told by the flight crew, so unless you hear otherwise, assume everything is normal.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 16:25:04

jamtoast12

I do not enjoy flying at all but even so still cant help watching all those air traffic investigation programmes. My question is... On occasions we hear that a planes engines can all go out and the pilot can land safely by gliding I.e the New York river landing. But then other times a plane can suddenly crash?! What's the difference? Surely if a problem occurs, could the pilot glide it down?!!!!

It is quite true that in the extremely rare event that if an aircraft loses all of its engine thrust, it can glide perfectly well, up to 100 miles from cruising altitude. There have been accidents, as you mention, where aircraft crash, for a number of other reasons where the aircraft is not able to glide, each accident being unique in its causal factors.

It is worth remembering that following an accident investigation lessons are learnt, and steps are taken to introduce new design and procedures. These steps ensure that a similar accident should never happen again, and this is one of the reasons that if you look at the statistics you will see fewer and fewer crashes and fatalities year on year, even though the number of flights and passengers travelling increases year on year. Flying has always been the safest form of travel, and becomes ever more so year on year.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 16:28:35

BlessThisMess

Mine is a slightly different question because I don't have a fear of flying, as such, but I do have a fear of vomiting. Do you think flying is less nausea-inducing than other forms of transport, and what would you suggest would help reduce the risk?

Many people suffer from a variety of forms of motion sickness or travel-sickness, which is broadly caused by your vestibular/Balance system sensing movement whilst visually you are not able to see the extent of the movement to form a match or consistency. A good way to understand this is to think about how you feel when you spin around and then suddenly stop. Your vision is picking up that you are stationary but the fluid in your inner ear continues to rotate and tells you that you are still moving. So you have a conflict with regard to what is happening, i.e. your eyes are telling you one thing and your Balance system in the ears is telling you something else. This causes nausea and the body then interprets this in a very primitive manner and deduces that you must have ingested poison. So in an attempt to rectify the situation your body will try to make you vomit to get rid of the perceived poison.

Without going into detail, whether flying is less nausea inducing than other forms of transport depends largely on your vestibular equipment as to which type of motion you find triggers the nausea, i.e. is it linear movement or rotational movement or both? Some people suffer from carsickness but not seasickness and vice versa.
About a third of the population are prone to seasickness because there can be considerable rotational movement due to the rolling effect caused by the waves. This coupled with being in a berth without a window (therefore no visual information available showing the movement) triggers the nausea.

Many people suffering from this problem find that taking some form of ginger like ginger tea helps to prevent the vomiting, due to it’s anti-emetic qualities, but does not get rid of the nausea. Booking a window seat helps the situation since you will be able to gain visual information showing that you are moving which will match with your vestibular information that you are moving rather than just looking at the interior of the aircraft which does not give you an indication of movement and hence the dissonance/discrepancy. It is worth a visit to your GP to seek advice, as there are various treatments available consisting of pills, patches and special glasses etc., which can help you.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 16:34:41

TheDoctorsWife46

My landlord is a pilot and I quizzed him repeatedly about flying.

My fear has got progressively worse until 6hours of turbulence from St Lucia left me terrorised. I flew again after but I had five Valium!!! Five. They did nothing other than effectively trap me in my own body, my mind raced and raced with fear but my body didn't respond in a panic.

I know in my rational mind that flying is safe and normal but two questions, why do pilots not talk you through turbulence if its so normal. And if I really can't manage my fear are there short acting sedatives I could resort to?

It is the very fact that it is normal that it is not seen as worthy of comment, apart from requesting that you remain seated with your seat belt fastened. Many people try to work during a flight and would find it very distracting to have a running commentary. Remember that turbulence is an entirely normal and natural phenomenon just like you would expect your channel crossing by boat to vary due to the smoothness of the sea some days and other days it may be more wavy. We do have a running commentary from the flight deck on our courses, which anxious passengers find very reassuring.

"And if I really can't manage my fear are there short acting sedatives I could resort to?"

Your GP can advise you on what would be suitable in terms of sedatives e.g. small dose of diazepam. If you wish to go down the medication route considerable care should be taken to get the right dosage so that you are not overly sedated. You could then be incapable of looking after yourself on the flight. This is why being overly intoxicated on alcohol on a flight is frowned upon since you can pose a danger to yourself and others.

Since sedation does have side effects I always encourage people to take real control by mastering the 4 Rs techniques, which are described in detail in the book. The 4Rs roughly involves learning how to React, Regulate your breathing, Relax your muscles and Rehearse a positive scenario. By doing the 4Rs you can avoid or arrest a panic attack by inducing a state of relaxation. Once you are relaxed you can access your rational mind, which knows how safe flying actually is smile

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 16:36:26

JustGiveMeFiveMinutes

I should ask a question I guess. I'm a bit wary of the experience and competence of the pilots of budget airlines and holiday company airlines compared to BA, Virgin etc airlines. Is this a justified fear?

No. All pilots are trained and checked to a legal standard that is set and monitored by the Civil Aviation Authority. Obviously experience levels, initial training, ongoing technical and non technical (teamwork) training will vary from airline to airline, but every six months, regardless of which company you work for, a pilot has to undergo rigorous testing in the simulator in order to retain his flying licence. On top of that we undergo an annual medical, a technical refresher and route checks on routine flights.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 16:39:16

Wiifitmama

My question is: why has my fear of flying got so much worse over time? I have been flying since I was a baby. Very international well traveled family. I never had any fear at all until about ten years ago. Nothing specific started it off. It has got worse and worse. The last flight was a tight are. Only a short flight from Venice to London and I was nearly hysterical over what felt like extreme turbulence to me, but nothing to anyone else. It has totally put me off the idea of a holiday abroad. I also find the turbulence (even mild) makes me nauseous.

So, why has it got worse?

You say that nothing specific has triggered it but we often develop mental health difficulties as a result of change, be it good or bad. The very fact that we have to pay greater attention to what we are doing puts a greater strain upon us and sometimes the accumulation of lots of little changes or a few major changes can take it’s toll, mentally, physically or both. For example one of the main reasons why people develop a fear of flying is becoming a parent. Because your world is significantly changed, this has to be adapted to and you can no longer live your life on a form of auto-pilot as you have a dependent to look after.

In this particular example a second factor is also involved in that on an evolutionary level you are programmed to assist in the survival of the next generation and therefore might well find that you become more risk adverse ( many new parents give up motor biking, bungee jumping etc). Even though this is entirely irrational in the case of flying, since this is the safest form of transport available. If we do want to be around to raise the next generation it would be more rational to give up driving which really is a risky occupation! To demonstrate the extra demands that change can make upon us I often ask clients to brush their teeth or hair with the opposite hand to the one that they usually use. They then see first hand, if you pardon the pun, the extra effort involved in doing such a tiny task, which previously required little concentration but considerable effort when switched to the opposite hand.

As to why the problem has got worse. Although you might well have long since left behind the extra stress that caused the phobia in the first place, by not effectively addressing the problem you have reinforced the bad habit. This is very similar to revising for an exam so that you can deliver the goods on the day of the examination. In your case you have been diligently rehearsing/revising how frightening you find flying and now have become proficient in finding it extremely uncomfortable.

I hope that very soon you will be back to your natural self, which is someone who ten years ago knew how to fly with confidence.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 16:41:54

loopyloou

I am terrified when flying and would appreciate an explanation of how exactly a plane stays in the air and also what causes turbulence and when is it dangerous?

It sounds like you need to come on our course! The theory of flight, especially lift, is explained and demonstrated fully on our special one day BA Flying with Confidence Course. Turbulence is also covered in great detail. Both these topics are also covered in our Flying with Confidence book.

In a nutshell, the shape of the wings enable the aircraft to fly by creating a suction (low pressure) above the wing as they are forced through the air by the engines. Turbulence is caused by a number of different things, the most common in the cruise being jet streams, fast moving "rivers" of air snaking around our planet at high altitude caused by the differential heating of land and sea masses combined with the rotation of the Earth. Turbulence may be uncomfortable, but it is NEVER dangerous.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 17:02:53

CocktailQueen

Oh, this is a great thread. I used to travel all over the world with dh - to New Zealand, Canada, Samoa, America. But since we had kids, I have got more and more scared of flying, helped by a couple of incidents like being hit by lightning and an aborted landing. Now, if I think about flying, I am terrified - I am sick, get diarrhoea, and can't help thinking about our entire family dying in a plane crash. Please, please, what can I do to help myself so that I can go on holiday with my family??

The key to your "incidents" is that you are still here to tell the tale. Lightning strikes on aircraft occur almost every day somewhere around the world, and pose no threat to safety. I have had seven, but none for about ten years, that is the nature of flying. The aircraft is designed to withstand a lightning strike, and to dissipate the static electricity that is generated via static wicks at the rear of the wings and tailplane.

An aborted landing can feel like a traumatic event, but in reality it is a quite routine event for pilots to execute, and something we are trained to do when it is safer to "go around" than to land. In the high landing density of traffic at Heathrow, a go around (aborted landing) happens at least once every day. It is the safe option if the preceding aircraft is still on the runway.

In short you can master the 4Rs techniques to enable your body to not change from long-term survival mode to short-term Emergency survival mode. This is caused by your fight or flight response mechanism being activated which causes a cocktail of stress hormones to be released into your body to deal with the perceived threat. Your fight or flight response is designed for physical threat, hence why all non-essential processes shut down so that all resources can be put into your escape from the threat (flight) or if this is not possible then into defeating the threat (fight). A good example of this is the shutting down of your digestive system causing you to have a dry throat (saliva not produced in the same quantity) and often vomiting or squitters which will cause you to be lighter and able to run faster to get away from the threat. Finally should you be caught by the threat/predator you will not smell too appetising so might well not get gobbled up.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 17:06:29

CaptainJamesTKirk

I too am afraid of flying. I avoid doing it at all costs and haven't done it at all since I became a mum.

What frightens me most is that these aircraft are always flying they barely ever stop (I think). I mean they do an 8 hour flight and then have a 1-2 hour turn around and then they're flying again. And the process is repeated. I worry about stress and wear and tear on aircraft, especially as some are very old. Your car couldn't cope with that and it doesn't have 4 jet engines and fly at 40000 feet.

On top of that the volume of aircraft in the air, I've seen the flight tracker apps. Are our skies getting too full?

I know you are all professionals, but pilots are not miracle workers if a plane is suddenly no longer air worthy. Air traffic control near misses are not unheard of and I know there are aircraft engineers to maintain the aircraft but they work through the night, people working overnight are statistically more likely to make mistakes because we are designed to be asleep.

Can you see how I've over thought this?

Can you reassure me that these aircraft are definitely air worthy, honestly (even on budget airlines)?

Thank you.

Yes. The reason that aircraft are able to continue flying for so many years is down to one thing. Excellent maintenance. You are quite right, the time spent on the ground is less than in the air, but EVERY time the aircraft is in the ground the aircraft is checked. A more detailed check is carried out in every 24 hour period, and even more detailed every week. After a certain amount of time, or "cycles" the aircraft is removed from flying altogether for several days to probe even into "wear and tear" issues. This gets ever more searching as the aircraft gets older with old parts being replaced to the extent that a very old aircraft is actually almost completed made of new parts! All of these processes are laid down and contribute hugely to air safety.

Air traffic control is a long subject, which we cover on the course and in the book in detail, but suffice to say, the skies are never too full, otherwise we have to stay on the ground to await our take off slot. Air traffic controllers are licensed professionals, just like pilots.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 17:09:13

PeggyBabcockBoot

I fly half a dozen times a year, but have always been scared of the plane take off and landing and hate that acceleration feeling on the runway. I spent most of my flights staring intently at the Flight Attendants faces, gauging whether they look concerned at the bumps and pings.

Couple of questions if I may?:

I worry about the angle of the plane on take off. Have there been many cases of airplane tails/back ends dragging on the ground and causing crashes? What stops this from happening (probably an insane question, but one of my concerns upon takeoff).

What happens if take off is not achieved? Is the plane capable of slowing down again before the end of the runway?

Do most crashes in the air happen in the cloud layer where there is less visibility? Should I add this to my long list of worries?

What happens if the wheels fail (i.e. don't come down). Are there a back up set?

After landing, what happens if the brakes fail to slow the plane - does it have to take off again, and has it got the capability to take off again?

Not insane, as it is possible, but 100% of take off "rotations" are controlled manually by the pilots, and so it would take an extraordinary lack of judgement to cause the tail to drag on the ground, and even then the aircraft would still be able to fly.

What happens if take off is not achieved? Is the plane capable of slowing down again before the end of the runway?

Yes, we have a speed at which we must continue the take off, called V1, but any time up until that point we can brake the aircraft to a safe stop.

Do most crashes in the air happen in the cloud layer where there is less visibility? Should I add this to my long list of worries?

No. I think you are referring to crashes that occur in fog, which has been a causal factor in a number of accidents in the past, but with improved technology, is now far less of a challenge to pilots.

What happens if the wheels fail (i.e. don't come down). Are there a back up set?

There is a back up system, as there is with everything on aircraft, but aircraft are able to land quite safely without any wheels, and this happened once or twice over the years.

After landing, what happens if the brakes fail to slow the plane - does it have to take off again, and has it got the capability to take off again?

There are many different devices and braking systems that are able to stop the aircraft, and the chances of them all failing at the same time as you touch down are nil. Even then the aircraft could indeed take off again just after it touched down.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 17:15:20

diabolo

I have to take Diazepam to fly, although this is a recent fear, back in my 20's I loved flying. I have, in the last few years, developed anxiety issues around claustrophobia. I'm not scared of flying as such - I'm scared that I will have a panic attack due to being in an enclosed space and that I will freak out and try and open the doors at 30,000 feet and kill myself and everyone else on board.

The diazepam helps a lot, makes me feel calm and happy and I've been OK during flights for the last couple of years, but get really stressed out for several weeks before flying.

My question is: are all your staff trained to restrain someone if necessary? If I do "freak out" mid-flight what will the cabin crew do to me?

The doors cannot be opened in flight due to the pressure differential so there is absolutely no chance of this eventuality. Secondly you can control the panic by mastering the 4Rs techniques

The diazepam helps a lot, makes me feel calm and happy and I've been OK during flights for the last couple of years, but get really stressed out for several weeks before flying.

This is anticipatory anxiety and can also be controlled by use of the 4Rs techniques and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

My question is: are all your staff trained to restrain someone if necessary? If I do "freak out" mid-flight what will the cabin crew do to me?

Yes, they are fully trained to keep both you and all the other passengers safe. But prevention is better than cure so I very much encourage you to learn the simple techniques, which will enable you to avoid freaking out in the first place. The real you is still there and never stop challenging your fear until you find him Steve, that is the guy who "loved flying?"

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 17:16:46

dappledawn

I don't like flying but have learnt to grit my teeth and put up with the fear. My 9 year old son has Asperger's and is terrified of it - the last trip I took him on, he screamed for most of it (and it was a 12 hour flight!) Is it OK to sedate him? if so, with what? Will the doctor give me prescription just for the flights? I couldn't bear a repeat of the last time.

I definitely recommend a visit to your GP who will be able to advise you about what can be done to help your son. I appreciate that this must have been a very upsetting experience for him and also very distressing for you to witness his upset. Your doctor might be able to refer your son to someone specialising in working with people with Asperger's. They will then be able to use appropriate techniques to help him to understand his experience. Although we offer courses aimed at children, sometimes, alternative interventions and techniques are more appropriate for children who have further challenges. Your GP may suggest a combination of therapy and medication. I hope that your next flight is stress free once you have received the support you need.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 17:17:59

Ebe1925

This has come at very appropriate time for me. I am currently off work due to generalised anxiety which I now realise had been building for a long time. I had recently started a new job and part of that involves travel - it was being due to fly which was what tipped me over the edge so to speak.

I had never had the opportunity to fly until 8 years ago (yes I was in my forties and had never flown!!) I was very apprehensive about flying but managed it by talking non stop to the person I was with. This time was different as I had to fly by myself with no one to be my distraction. I got so worked up about it and in the end couldn't go to the airport and then went into meltdown.

I am not entirely sure what exactly I am afraid of apart from the fear of being afraid and having some kind of a panic. One part is that something so big and heavy shouldn't stay in the air. Another part is that there is no way out - you can't just get off a plane or open a window if you need to. When I have flown, I found the taking off and landing quite scary. Looking out of the window was fascinating but also scary. But the worst was when the plane suddenly dips, or the engine sounds like it's stopped, or when there is some turbulence.

I am having CBT at the moment for my overall problems - at some stage there will be not just how I will manage going back to work to tackle but also the travelling to deal with so some constructive help on this point would be massively useful if I am to return to my job.

It sounds like you need to come along to our course, which addresses all of these fears and more. Regarding how big and heavy the aircraft is, refer to one of my previous answers about lift, and all you need is to have big enough wings to balance the lift with the weight of the aircraft. Turbulence is uncomfortable but NEVER dangerous, please see an earlier answer on this subject. When it sounds like the engines have stopped, I think you are referring to levelling off, or perhaps the reduction in power just after take off, when we do not require so much power because we no longer have the drag of the landing gear. This reduction in RATE of acceleration (and how your balance system plays tricks on you in the air) is fully explained in our book, Flying with Confidence.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 17:19:54

Southfarnhammum

I have developed a fear of flying since having children. I used to fly all over the world without any worries at all. My Dr has prescribed Diazepam and I'm hoping that will do the trick. Are there other techniques that I could try? I have tried hypnotherapy very successfully in the past which cured my crippling fear of spiders. I now just dislike spiders but they no longer terrify me. The trouble with a fear of flying that unlike arachnophobia, there is some logic to it.

There is also some logic in being wary of spiders as some can be dangerous, however, it is extremely rare. So too with flying, in that there is nothing that is 100 % safe, however flying is the closest you will come to 100% safety since Air Transport has a zero tolerance policy to anything that might compromise your safety.

Congratulations on defeating your arachnophobia and with the same determination I am sure that you can conquer aviaphobia. I wish you many happy flights to come.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 17:22:50

timidviper

I don't like flying but, for me, it is when we are up in the air and I think the engines are stopping. The note of the engine seems to drop until I feel sure it is about to stop. On our last flight I had about half an hour of battling panic despite Valium and several gins blush Any thoughts or advice please?

Please see my previous answer if you are referring to the "noise abatement" procedure just after take off. Your inner ears work as accelerometers, and so the change in rate of acceleration is what you sense, together with an actual, but very small, reduction in thrust. The other time the engine note would drop is when you level off in the cruise and less power is needed

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 17:24:02

Wannabuyawatch

I feel different as I don´t have a fear of the plane crashing or anything going wrong. My fear is simply that I am terrified of having a panic attack and there is nothing I can do do escape the situation. I had been getting much better but had an awful panic attack on my last flight for no reason whatsoever. I just sat for the rest of the flight in complete misery, hot, sweating, unable to open my eyes and just wanting it all to be over. I am desperate to get over this, but have tried CBT; hypnotherapy, psychotherapy and alcohol therapy! Only thing I have done is taken beta blockers/valium but I am scared to. I don´t want to limit my children´s life because of this and would do anything to be cured!!

Many people are uncomfortable about taking medication and if this does not sit well with you I suggest that you attend one of our courses. By having the support of a dedicated team you will be able to understand what is happening to your body and how to control the symptoms caused by anxiety. If you read the Flying with Confidence book you will learn how to relax your body so that if you do become anxious at any point, instead of feeling helpless you will know what to do to calm yourself down. You will be able to defeat this problem if you remain determined to not allow it to limit your life.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 17:25:21

LilBlondePessimist

My flying anxiety is so bad that I have actually cried reading the posts on this thread. If I am driving near an airport and a plane flies overhead, landing or taking off, I begin to shake.

I won't fly without my children as I don't want to leave them without a mother. We emigrated to Australia two years ago and I really don't think I can face visiting home.

I have almost not got on several flights, and completely broke down and just didn't get on one, even with several kind and patient stewards trying to help me on. My husband was pissed that we didn't go on that hol, to say the least. I didn't fly for almost 5yrs at one point, and any time I do force myself now, I spend the flight in tears. Diazepam and beta blockers don't work.

I also fear heights, being driven by other people on motorways, and public transport in general. Oh, and I have a phobia of other people vomiting near me. So really im just fine and dandy!! hmm

I suppose my question is, can someone with such an extreme fear ever be 'cured', and what would it take? I'd really love to be able to fly for my children's sake, and not let them pick up on my fear.

The simple answer is yes. It doesn't matter how many factors feed into a phobia, once you have the understanding about what is happening, you will be empowered to deal with it. I am so sorry that you have suffered so much with your emetophobia, acrophobia etc. The techniques discussed in the book are transferable skills, which will assist you in dealing with motorways and all your other problems. It seems that your difficulties have blighted your life long enough and it is now time to take action to reclaim your freedom to live your life how you want to live it. I wish you every success in this endeavour.

Patricia&Steve Mon 08-Jul-13 17:28:13

S3BFD

I am not scared of flying at all but my husband is. He has never been on an aeroplane so I feel he is frightened irrationally about something he has never even experienced (good or bad). He also claims to have a fear of heights.
He actually blames his parents for never taking him on a plane as a child & surprise, surprise his mother had a fear of flying which I believe she has more than likely imposed in my husband's mind.
His opinion is if an aeroplane has a fault - 100% chance you crash - 100% guarantee you die.
The problem is I love holidays abroad & I am finding him very restrictive. Now we have children he will not let me taken them on a plane & I will not holiday without them. It is causing me to resent him. I am fed up of going to Butlins/Haven.
Now the clincher - my husband is a rather unreasonable person. He will not talk about his fear (just bites my head off), will never entertain hypnotherapy, refuses flying fear course & will not take sedatives to fly.
What else can I do? I do not want my kids to end up scared to fly like him.

His opinion is if an aeroplane has a fault - 100% chance you crash - 100% guarantee you die.
This is totally erroneous and the statistics say otherwise, which should reassure you enormously

First of all it is important to understand that nobody wishes a fear of anything upon them self and having a phobia takes an enormous toll not only on our freedom but our self-confidence and self-esteem also. I think that if your husband could be sufficiently open minded to explore his problem by reading the book it would be an excellent first step and might well be all that he needs to re-evaluate his attitude. Although technically he is not someone with aviaphobia, since he as never flown and therefore is someone with neophobia (fear of new experiences) there is a good chance that he has developed his difficulty due to his mother’s attitude to flying. I appreciate that you are desperate that your children should not learn the same behaviour/attitudes. If you cannot persuade your husband to address his difficulties with flying then it would be useful for you to read the book to gain an insight into what he is going through and then you could support him appropriately by explaining what is happening to him. Alternatively you could encourage your husband to address his fear of heights first as this may feel more accessible for him and success in this area might well provide him with the impetus to challenge his fear of flying.

As well as specialising in phobias I have worked for over twenty years as a relationship therapist and appreciate how resentments can build up if partners are not able or willing to try to meet each other’s needs. Another avenue to addressing this issue is to consider relationship therapy so that your husband can gain an appreciation of how important it is to you that you and your children are not limited by his refusal to address his problem. I wish you every success so that you and your family can enjoy visiting this fantastic world in which we live.

Londonlass99 Thu 11-Jul-13 21:46:03

My husband won't fly and we haven't flown since 2005. Our fear is that with CO2 in the atmosphere reaching 400 parts per million our addiction to flying is destroying humankind's life support system and endangering the future of our DD and every other child. He says stopping flying is the most simple single thing that people can do to make a difference.

My question is: how can we wean people off the desire to fly half way round the world to when they could have just as much fun locally?

RachelMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 16-Jul-13 22:51:00

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