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Kate Garraway and Zita West: live webchat about fertility, Wednesday 22 May, 12.45pm to 1.45pm

(139 Posts)
RachelMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 21-May-13 20:13:38

Kate Garraway and Zita West are joining us for a live webchat on Wednesday lunchtime between 12.45 and 1.45pm

Kate and Zita have been working together recently as ambassadors for the Get Britain Fertile campaign with First Response Early Result Pregnancy Test. The campaign uses an image of Kate transformed by prosthetics into a 70-year-old pregnant woman; First Response says this was done to raise awareness of the fact that the average age at which women in the UK have children is one of the world's highest.

However, the image has come under much criticism on this thread. In particular, Mumsnetters have queried whether women are, in fact, really that unaware of the risks - and why the campaign does not appear to be equally aimed at men.

The Get Britain Fertile press team say, "The campaign was set up to to supply men and women with accurate and up-to-date fertility tips and advice, to improve chances of conception whenever they decide to start conceiving."

Kate Garraway has been presenting GMTV Daybreak for 13 years, and is the mother of two children, to whom she gave birth at the ages of 38 and 42. Zita West is a midwife, acupuncturist and nutritional adviser. She worked in the NHS for more than 20 years, and in 2002 set up the Zita West clinic, a multidisciplinary practice for helping women to conceive. She joined Mumsnet for live webchat back in 2007.

Put your questions to Kate and Zita tomorrow (Weds 22 May) at 12.45pm or, if you're unable to make that time, post them here in advance.

Shakey1500 Tue 21-May-13 20:39:14

My question is to Kate...

Have you read the recent thread on the campaign?

WouldBeHarrietVane Tue 21-May-13 21:02:49

As a woman who became a mother at 36 when I wanted a baby before 30, I question the logic of the campaign.

I always knew I wanted dc and that my fertility would decline. I was forced to wait due to a sequence of events starting with unexpected relationship breakdown, a period of time single, followed by endocrine problems that had to be stabilised before I could try for a baby and then a mc.

Among women I know it is male reluctance to settle down which appears to be primarily responsible for late conception. Why not target a campaign at men?

gazzalw Tue 21-May-13 21:27:50

On the basis of my own experience of parenthood, which is not too dissimilar from Kate's, I wouldn't say it's entirely driven by conscious choice to delay parenthood but by circumstance, financial and otherwise. It is true that it is often the men who are not ready for parenthood until later on in life, which can have major implications for their their partners. DW were for motherhood at thirty but none of her partners were. She had to delay motherhood until she met someone as ready for parenthood as she was - me....

WouldBeHarrietVane Tue 21-May-13 21:37:41

Gazza, thank you for putting the male side on here smile

ColdWindsOfSuburbia Tue 21-May-13 21:41:54

Yuh yuh.

Where is KG DH in all this.

Male model of family; male model of work and the women are left to make to books balance.

FamiliesShareGerms Tue 21-May-13 22:01:11

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that I do think that we need to get out the message that the longer you leave trying to conceive the harder it can be. Although there are lots of good and sound reasons to delay starting a family, the decision to do so does need to be weighed up against the risk that it might not be straightforward.

I have lost count of the number of friends and colleagues who have assumed that they can leave it until they are 35+ to start ttc, and then run into problems. In fact, this issue is the one thing that I will stick my oar in on: I do point out to them that they might not be in a rush, but their bodies may well have other ideas, and if they know they do want to start a family they should crack on with it as soon as possible.

I'm not altogether convinced by how the campaign will work, and how it intends to deliver the messages, but as a concept I'm surprised it has been greeted with so much hostility.

FamiliesShareGerms Tue 21-May-13 22:02:20

Sorry, my question! What is the ideal age at which to have a child for a) women and b) men?

Thanks!

HesterShaw Tue 21-May-13 22:30:37

So this is being funded by First Response is it?

Okaaaaaaaaaaay.

Jcee Tue 21-May-13 22:31:42

I'd be interested to know what this "campaign" is really seeking achieve?

Its an intensely personal decision often down to the specific circumstances of the couple and therefore not one which easily lends itself to be manipulated/encouraged - I had my first child at 38 which was just the way things worked out for a variety of reasons but not something I could have easily changed by access to fertility tip.

Similarly with nhs resources stretched to capacity its not like fertility testing and checks ups is going to be freely available to all regularly to aid a couple's decision making process.

Cynical me suggests it seems to be nothing more than a misguided and sexist PR stunt for a pregnancy test and they have certainly seem to have achieved the publicity they were seeking.

tunnocksteacake Tue 21-May-13 22:35:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hayleyh34 Tue 21-May-13 23:18:22

As someone who adopted because I couldn't conceive I find this tiresome. Surely common sense dictates that it's not the age that you become a parent that matters but the type of parent that you are?

DuelingFanjo Tue 21-May-13 23:37:34

Fab. This is for Kate Garraway.

Do you really think women welcome being lectured about their fertility by someone who has had two children very easily at an advanced age, but who simultaneously complains about her inability to have a third?

dinkystinky Wed 22-May-13 05:54:35

Given the cost of living - and the cost of childcare - in the UK most couples I know have waited until they are financially stable, with some money put aside, before having children. Its all very well telling men and women they should try to conceive earlier in life - but those I know who had children aged between 18 and 23 have really struggled financially for the first few years(and beyond) of their children's life. So my question is this - what do you really hope to achieve by this campaign?

gazzalw Wed 22-May-13 07:11:00

Sorry I did my post on the IPad and some of it doesn't make sense....[apologies to those reading it!).

SeriousStuff Wed 22-May-13 08:12:54

Same question as a number of women on here - I'm 32 and expecting my first baby. I would have loved to have had a baby before 30 but I didn't marry the 'best man for the job' until I was 31.

Whilst I agree that there are obvious health benefits to having children sooner, in the wider scheme of things, isn't it better to wait and have a child with a man you love and trust will be a good father rather than settle earlier on just for the sake of having a baby when you're younger?

helterskelter99 Wed 22-May-13 08:18:58

I think the campaign is insulting & humiliating for women. Most people wait until they are emotionally ready to cope with motherhood. For some in the right relationship this happens pre 35 for others it takes longer. If you are desperate for a child but not yet in the right relationship campaigns like this make you feel even worse
I had my child at 40 after 5 yrs of trying obviously would have lived one earlier but that's life x

mrsden Wed 22-May-13 08:22:20

Is there any evidence that women aren't aware that fertility declines with age? I find the tone of the campaign very patronizing. Many women are simply not in the position to start a family until their thirties. I also find it patronizing to have someone who has two children conceived in their thirties fronting the campaign. I certainly wouldn't take fertility advice from someone who smoked while pregnant. What effect does smoking have on fertility and egg quality?

HandbagCrab Wed 22-May-13 08:29:36

Why is the campaign aimed solely at some kind of stereotypical woman (on 'femail' pages of dm, getbritainfertile roadshow is pink)?

If Kate and Zita think this is soooo important they are willing to patronise and belittle 50% of the adults in this country with their message, why have they waited to align their views with a pregnancy test manufacturer?

Two questions, sorry, but along the same vein smile

eehbahmum Wed 22-May-13 08:47:15

If the aim of the campaign is genuinely to get women thinking about fertility earlier in life is Kate the right person to be fronting this?

Why not present a positive story from a woman who has had children earlier and has a great life?

The idea behind the campaign is a good one but yet again it is presenting a negative picture of women.

Gigondas Wed 22-May-13 08:49:51

Have they seen this thread which highlights a lot of points made earlier
Duscussion.

I am astonished that Zita west (who I had a lot of time for) is involved in this.

Ime and as post after post shows, delayed motherhood is not because people are ignorant of implications biologically or as a lifestyle choice.

First response also scoring a massive pr own goal by association by this.

This is probably the most ill received web chat since Scheherazade goldsmith (which got cancelled as no one wanted to be lectured by her).

enormouse Wed 22-May-13 08:58:16

How have KG's employers i.e. daybreak and its viewers reacted to her fronting this campaign, considering that the viewing demographic for it is largely female and mothers?

I also had enormous respect for Zita West as a medical practitioner and thought highly of the advice she gave in mother and baby. I cannot believe she's allowed herself to be associated with this particular campaign.

Willemdefoeismine Wed 22-May-13 09:07:36

I think this campaign is somewhat disingenuous.....

As someone who falls into the Kate camp in terms of child-bearing, I understand where she's coming from. Whilst I became pregnant very quickly with DC1, with DC2 (who came along five years later) I had problems conceiving (which I'm sure were age related) although we waited, didn't seek intervention and happily along she came.

However, I would say that all thro' my late 20s and early 30s I was aware that "the clock was ticking", as were many of my close friends. I would also point out though, that at this stage of my life I didn't have the fortune to meet any men who were ready, willing or able to settle down and have children with me. The great love affair of my life at the time was with someone who was fantastic and could have been my soul mate but he was some years younger than me and wasn't ready to have children. Would that things had been different but they weren't. I had quite a few more years of kissing frogs before I found my prince who is the father of my DCs! Sadly some of my friends haven't been so lucky and they find themselves past the point of child-bearing.

I guess what I'm saying is that for me personally (and indeed for many women I know), delaying having children wasn't so much a lifestyle choice as a case of not finding the right man to fall in love and have children! It's not even necessarily about consciously delaying child-bearing to pursue the hight-powered career. I think that for those of us who have been educated to a high level and moved away from home, we were pursuing our own lives and interests rather than focusing on long-term relationships and children.

Perhaps this is just another example to disprove the theory that women can have it all.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 22-May-13 09:34:24

HesterShaw

So this is being funded by First Response is it?

Okaaaaaaaaaaay.

Morning. Yes, the campaign is sponsored by First Response, we believe.

But this thread is not.

Crumblemum Wed 22-May-13 09:35:21

Hiya

My mum went through the menopause at a very early age, and this was one factor behind my decision to have kids at a younger (well 29) age (although the bigger factors were feeling ready and meeting the right man to have kids with). Anyhow, was I right? Is an early menopause hereditary? Are there any other conditions to think about when deciding the right age?

tametortie Wed 22-May-13 09:35:41

I have very differing feelings about this campaign.

I do think women need educating about fertility- along the lines of TCOYF and Zita West's female fertility evaluation. When I started TTC, these were invaluable- learning about body temping, cervical mucus (sorry to those eating breakfast!) and signs of ovulation etc. It amazes me how much we teach young girls about preventing pregnancy but we dont educate women about taking control of their own bodies, understanding controlling their fertility etc.

However, my story is I started TTC when I was 26- in plenty of time, having already had a child and now at age 32, I am just at the end of my 3rd failed IVF cycle with an AMH level of 4.52 and the eggs of a much, much older woman. I eat well, I exercise, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I drink a fortune in bottled water, I have acupuncture and yet, I cannot conceive without lots and lots of assistance.

I think this campaign is misguided and personal. It offends me and I am sure it must offend others. And it is fronted by somebody who craves a 3rd child??!! Makes me want to weep.

I think the campaign should be much more about educating women of all ages about their fertility. Zita West does fabulous work at her clinic regarding this and would have done much better to have pushed forward with advice regarding this, not about educating women about something that relies on SO many factors we have NO control over whatsoever- meeting the right man, being in good fertile health in the first place???

Bizarre. Whoever dreamt this one up needs a good shake.

rhetorician Wed 22-May-13 09:51:23

Whilst I appreciate the personal tragedy involved for people who find that their fertility declines (and as tametortie's eloquent post illustrates, this is not purely age related) this campaign doesn't make much sense to me. The UKs birth rate is one of the highest in the EU, apart from Ireland which is the only country with a birth rate above 2.0. I would like to hear Kate and Garraway put forward reasons other than personal fulfilment why we should be trying to increase fertility, if our population is replacing itself...

MadBusLady Wed 22-May-13 09:57:26

The campaign uses an image of Kate transformed by prosthetics into a 70-year-old pregnant woman; First Response says this was done to raise awareness of the fact that the average age at which women in the UK have children is one of the world's highest.

Please can you elaborate on the intentions behind this poster?

Surely, if the aim of the campaign is to spread awareness about declining fertility as we age, it makes no sense to have a pregnant "70 year old" on your poster.

Unless, of course, your real intention is just to shame older mothers.

I invite you to refute this logic.

MadBusLady Wed 22-May-13 10:02:33

(I realise, of course, that you can't, because it doesn't make any sense - and I also realise that probably you two as individuals don't wish to shame older mothers. I just think you need to have a word with the people on your marketing team, because some not-very-nice attitudes are coming through with that particular bit of "awareness raising".)

I was just about to post the same as MadBusLady.

Please tell us more about the poster.

To me, it looks like you want people to go - "ooh, freaky..." Is that what you wanted? How do you think that is helpful to either older mothers or older women who want to be mothers?

Scribblegirl Wed 22-May-13 10:25:10

Some people have suggested the campaign is not aimed at those who are in their 30s and TTC, but at younger women to get them thinking about it earlier.

I am a childless 24 year old graduate who is currently struggling to find graduate employment that will support me, due to the economic climate and the vast number of unemployed graduates. My DP is of similar age and situation. I have recently started a part time Masters course in order to become better qualified in the vain hope we may be able to afford children one day.

Does Ms Garraway suggest we:-

a) put off childrearing for say, 6 years (by which point I will be 30) in the hope we will be able to raise children without adding to this country's benefit dependency, or

b) start TTC now when neither of us are financially or emotionally ready, bringing a child into a struggling situation, in order to make hand-wringing highly-sponsored 'spokespeople' such as herself rest easier at night?

WilsonFrickett Wed 22-May-13 10:32:13

I wonder if Kate and Zita would care to comment on the second phase of their campaign (as yet imaginary of course!) which will clearly focus on changing societal attitudes to young women who have multiple children before they hit their twenties - because surely that is the logical end to this campaign? Is First Response going to be sponsoring affordable accommodation? Jobs? Partners?

I would have loved to have had more than one DC but as DS came along when I was 35, I wasn't ready to think about #2 till I was 40 - too late (for me). But I knew the risks and I chose to delay conception till I was in a stable, committed relationship where we both wanted children.

To suggest that a high % of women go 'FFS! I forgot to get pg!' is both patronising and ridiculous. And yes, where are the men in this campaign?

EuroShaggleton Wed 22-May-13 10:34:38

My question to Kate and Zita is this:

Do you really think women are unaware that fertility declines with age and this is the reason for later childbearing, rather than financial constraints, finding a suitable partner, waiting for that partner to be ready, etc? Really Kate and Zita?

I find the campaign pretty offensive and patronising, to be honest.

FunnysInLaJardin Wed 22-May-13 10:37:29

I really don't get this campaign. Most women who have babies later do so as they want to concentrate on their careers first. I don't see how this campaign will make any difference to that group of women. Certainly Kate Garraway saying I should have a baby earlier than say 30 wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to me as I needed to get my life sorted out first.

I think the demographic that they are trying to speak to are probably the most aware about declining fertility what with being educated and all. I doubt many of us actually 'sleep walk into infertility'. It is rather more complex than that I suspect.

It seems like an ill thoughtout and rather pointless marketing exercise for First Response tbh

FunnysInLaJardin Wed 22-May-13 10:38:56

ha ha Euro made the same point grin

FunnysInLaJardin Wed 22-May-13 10:41:10

and agree with Wilson it is very patronising

pennylovesleonard Wed 22-May-13 10:49:22

I agree with the above posters, I would have loved to start my family in my early twenties but wasn't with the right partner, didn't meet dh until late twenties & as soon as we could just about manage financially we had dd when I was 31.
Struggling with conceiving dc2 now at 35 & have been refered to the hospital (waiting for my appt in July )

So my question is what should I be doing to be help my chances now? (Apart from the obvious grin )
Acupuncture? Supplements? Losing weight?

I find the campaign depressing and patronising to be honest.

LeStewpot Wed 22-May-13 11:13:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KentishWine Wed 22-May-13 11:16:53

Do you think there is a link between these two factors: (1) The average age at which women in the UK have children is amongst the highest in the world; (2) The average cost of childcare in the UK is the highest in the world (apart from Switzerland)?

Do you think your time and effort would be better directed at campaigning for a society where young working couples can afford to have children if they so wish?

louisianablue2000 Wed 22-May-13 11:19:12

Considering that the world's population is so high already is it not irresponsible to encourage people to have children at a young age, surely from a population wide view it is better to encourage people to leave it as late as possible? Having a baby is not the only way to feel fufilled.

mrsden Wed 22-May-13 11:31:22

I hate the title "get Britain fertile" because I think it suggests that there is something we can control about fertility, that those of us suffering with infertility did or are doing something wrong, that we've made bad choices and have caused this. Our infertility is the result of dh being born with an undescended testicle. There is nothing we can do to 'get fertile' and this plays into the ignorant view that its people's own fault.

EduCated Wed 22-May-13 12:23:43

What are the markets of success for this campaign, ie what are you hoping to achieve, in measurable terms? Why?

TheNewson Wed 22-May-13 12:34:04

OK, here's the thing. Lack of partner and financial security aside, I didn't actually want children until my 30s.

I had twins naturally at 32. In previous years this age was deemed geriatric for first children (even though my Nan had kids from when she was aged between 18-40)

Yes, we all know that ideally women should be in their 20s but in this day of choice I'm glad I waited. I feel this campaign edges into the arena of (informed) choice, and I'm uncomfortable with that.

Most of the people this campaign is aimed at are intelligent enough to realise that the body is supposedly best at having children in its 20s; yet for various reasons, that are diverse and far from simple, that does not always happen.

Question: So isn't the campaign pointless? What are you hoping to change/prompt when people are well informed on this complex issue?

SarahMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 22-May-13 12:47:44

Afternoon everyone.

Kate and Zita have arrived, and are just getting comfy - they'll be here and answering in a sec. Take it away...

Shakey1500 Wed 22-May-13 12:52:00

Hi Kate and Zita

I did post up thread but I would like to know if you have read the current Mumsnet thread on your campaign?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/1758868-Kate-Garraway-fronts-campaign-to-get-women-thinking-about-having-babies-earlier

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 12:53:19

Hi mumsnetters Zita and I are here now and ready to answer your questions about the Get Britain Fertile campaign.

EduCated Wed 22-May-13 12:54:35

<settles in>

hurricanewyn Wed 22-May-13 12:57:09

Hi both,

Can you explain the reasoning behind the campaign? Do you both, as educated women, genuinely believe that women don't realise that they may find it harder to get pregnant as they age?

EduCated Wed 22-May-13 12:59:15

Reporting my question from above, reworded slightly:

What are the markers of success for this campaign? Ie, what exact is it, in measurable terms, that you are trying to achieve and why is this important enough for a campaign?

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:00:27

pennylovesleonard

I agree with the above posters, I would have loved to start my family in my early twenties but wasn't with the right partner, didn't meet dh until late twenties & as soon as we could just about manage financially we had dd when I was 31.
Struggling with conceiving dc2 now at 35 & have been refered to the hospital (waiting for my appt in July )

So my question is what should I be doing to be help my chances now? (Apart from the obvious grin )
Acupuncture? Supplements? Losing weight?

I find the campaign depressing and patronising to be honest.

ZITA SAYS: This is always difficult and I do understand the pain you are going through. Without knowing your specific medical history its hard to give personal advice but there are many things you can do. Looking at you and your partner's lifestyle, making sure you understanding about your fertile window and looking at the amount of sex you are having. There may be underlying medical factors that are stopping you conceiving your second child which hopefully will be investigated with your appointment in July.

KATE SAYS: I am sorry you are having so many challenges but you are not alone. It is in response to the problems people are experiencing that the campaign was conceived. Hopefully as the campaign progresses you and others in your position will be able to benefit from the expert advice that Zita is going to share.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:01:03

louisianablue2000

Considering that the world's population is so high already is it not irresponsible to encourage people to have children at a young age, surely from a population wide view it is better to encourage people to leave it as late as possible? Having a baby is not the only way to feel fufilled.

Kate says: I totally agree that having a baby is not the only way to feel fulfilled, however for many women the desire to have a child is overwhelming and if they find it hard to conceive it can be heartbreaking. So this campaign is aimed at giving as much information as possible who do want help. The campaign is aimed at men and women and people of all ages.

EduCated Wed 22-May-13 13:02:24

It is in response to the problems people are experiencing that the campaign was conceived.

Pun intended? wink

TheNewson Wed 22-May-13 13:02:48

Why has Kate been transformed into a 70-year-old woman for the advertising poster? These ludicrous 'shock' tactics are merely insulting to 'older' mothers.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:06:02

KentishWine

Do you think there is a link between these two factors: (1) The average age at which women in the UK have children is amongst the highest in the world; (2) The average cost of childcare in the UK is the highest in the world (apart from Switzerland)?

Do you think your time and effort would be better directed at campaigning for a society where young working couples can afford to have children if they so wish?

KATE SAYS: A First Response/YouGov survey commissioned to accompany this campaign revealed that when asked 42 percent of men and women said they delayed having a baby to sort out their finances, and over a third of UK adults said the cost of childcare puts them off having a baby or another child. So it seems alot of other people agree with your point.By
raising awareness of these issues we hope the campaign will be able to highlight some of the challenges people are facing.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:07:32

Crumblemum

Hiya

My mum went through the menopause at a very early age, and this was one factor behind my decision to have kids at a younger (well 29) age (although the bigger factors were feeling ready and meeting the right man to have kids with). Anyhow, was I right? Is an early menopause hereditary? Are there any other conditions to think about when deciding the right age?

Zita says: That this is a really good question. One of the most important questions that every woman should ask their mother at what age they went through their menopause?. The chances are that you may also go through your menopause around the same time. It is important to know this if you are hoping to have more than one child you may consider trying earlier. There are ways now in assessing Ovarian reserves through blood tests and scans that will give you a good indication of future fertility potential.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:08:29

mrsden

I hate the title "get Britain fertile" because I think it suggests that there is something we can control about fertility, that those of us suffering with infertility did or are doing something wrong, that we've made bad choices and have caused this. Our infertility is the result of dh being born with an undescended testicle. There is nothing we can do to 'get fertile' and this plays into the ignorant view that its people's own fault.

Kate says: I am so sorry about your challenges with having a children. I hope that as you get to hear more about the campaign you will come to realise that it is about giving couples as much information as possible so that they can meet whatever fertility challenges that come their way and be as prepared as possible. I wish you good luck with yours.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:11:24

mrsden

Is there any evidence that women aren't aware that fertility declines with age? I find the tone of the campaign very patronizing. Many women are simply not in the position to start a family until their thirties. I also find it patronizing to have someone who has two children conceived in their thirties fronting the campaign. I certainly wouldn't take fertility advice from someone who smoked while pregnant. What effect does smoking have on fertility and egg quality?

Zita says: Yes there is evidence that women are not aware that their fertility declines with age. I see this in my clinic every week and it is painful to witness when men and women become aware that it is too late for them to conceive. Only this morning I saw a couple who wished they had started trying for a baby earlier on in their thirties as they hadn’t expected to have any problems. He has male factor issues and she is not ovulating. They have only just found this out. She is 37 and he is 39. Many women because they are having regular periods think they are ovulating. It is myths like this that we hope to tackle during the year long campaign to Get Britain Fertile with First Response Early Result Pregnancy Test. Smoking does have a big impact on fertility and can affect egg quality and sperm.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:12:45

hurricanewyn

Hi both,

Can you explain the reasoning behind the campaign? Do you both, as educated women, genuinely believe that women don't realise that they may find it harder to get pregnant as they age?

Zita says: I see this every day in my clinic. Highly educated men and women who simply have no idea about their own biology. Most women spend much of their lives trying not to get pregnant. Many women start the pill at 16 and they come off it in their thirties and they are not aware of their cycle or fertility signs. It would really surprise you if you knew just how many men and women really do not know the basic facts. We are taught how not to get pregnant at school. Fast forward to when couples want to start trying and often they have forgotten the facts or there are issues they do not know how to tackle.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:12:49

Gigondas

Have they seen this thread which highlights a lot of points made earlier
Duscussion.

I am astonished that Zita west (who I had a lot of time for) is involved in this.

Ime and as post after post shows, delayed motherhood is not because people are ignorant of implications biologically or as a lifestyle choice.

First response also scoring a massive pr own goal by association by this.

This is probably the most ill received web chat since Scheherazade goldsmith (which got cancelled as no one wanted to be lectured by her).

Zita says: Gigonadas it really saddens me that you feel that way. I've been a supporter of men and women of all ages being more informed about fertility for decades. I've been a midwife for thirty years and I see thousands of couples a year who come to me with very real and very painful issues. I really do understand what couples face when deciding to have a baby. I have always believed that there are many myths that need to be dispelled and the reason I decided to be involved with this campaign was to get the facts out to men and women across the country.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:16:00

FunnysInLaJardin

I really don't get this campaign. Most women who have babies later do so as they want to concentrate on their careers first. I don't see how this campaign will make any difference to that group of women. Certainly Kate Garraway saying I should have a baby earlier than say 30 wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to me as I needed to get my life sorted out first.

I think the demographic that they are trying to speak to are probably the most aware about declining fertility what with being educated and all. I doubt many of us actually 'sleep walk into infertility'. It is rather more complex than that I suspect.

It seems like an ill thoughtout and rather pointless marketing exercise for First Response tbh

KATE SAYS: I think some of the elements of this campaign may have been mis read along the way. Its main aim is to offer help and share the expertise that Zita West has accumulated over years working with couples who are trying to conceive. Alongside that a survey was commissioned to look into why the UK is one of the countries in the world that delays bearing children more than anywhere else. And the survey threw up some interesting statistics surrounding people reasons. Many people may be very aware of their own body and the length of their fertility window. But speaking from personal experience i was unaware of how my fertility had been affected by age. And cannot imagine life without my two wonderful children so just want others to be aware too, so they can avoid the pain of age related infertility that so many of my friends have experienced.

EduCated Wed 22-May-13 13:17:47

Any actual, non-anecdotal evidence?

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:19:23

FamiliesShareGerms

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that I do think that we need to get out the message that the longer you leave trying to conceive the harder it can be. Although there are lots of good and sound reasons to delay starting a family, the decision to do so does need to be weighed up against the risk that it might not be straightforward.

I have lost count of the number of friends and colleagues who have assumed that they can leave it until they are 35+ to start ttc, and then run into problems. In fact, this issue is the one thing that I will stick my oar in on: I do point out to them that they might not be in a rush, but their bodies may well have other ideas, and if they know they do want to start a family they should crack on with it as soon as possible.

I'm not altogether convinced by how the campaign will work, and how it intends to deliver the messages, but as a concept I'm surprised it has been greeted with so much hostility.

Zita says: Thank you FamiliesShareGerms for your support. I frequently see couples that come back trying for a second child and what men and women have to factor in is that it can take up to a year to get pregnant, and then it can take another year to carry a child and recover from the birth. If you breast-feed and recover that is another year. Miscarriages are very common and if things do sadly go wrong, that is another delay in a couple's fertility journey. It is a journey that takes time and we are making couples aware they should plan ahead to get fertility fit.

Of course, some couples have very real fertility issues. We are encouraging them to look after their fertility early on in their journeys so these can be addressed.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:21:17

HesterShaw

So this is being funded by First Response is it?

Okaaaaaaaaaaay.

Zita says: Yes this is being funded by First Response Early Result Pregnancy Test. I have worked closely with them for two years and they are fully supportive of couples and their fertility journeys.

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Wed 22-May-13 13:21:21

Whilst i "get" the basic intention behind this campaign, I'm afraid I'm another woman who finds it patronising. Those of us who are over 30 are constantly bombarded with messages that we are too career driven and selfish for "waiting" to have children.

It fails to take into account the fact that many women are not in the right relationship at their most fertile age or are not financially able to support children. Or, as in my case, have fertility issues that they are unaware of until they actually start trying to conceive. I would love to have had children in my 20s, but have been struggling with previously unknown fertility issues for 3 years. At the age of 32 I feel utterly wretched when I read commentators and experts essentially saying "it's your own fault for not trying sooner."

FunnysInLaJardin Wed 22-May-13 13:22:02

thanks for your response Kate. I think that personally had you used another medium rather than the Daily Mail to publicise the campaign then it would have been taken more seriously and the main message wouldn't have been lost. As it was the first I saw of it was in Femail which is mysoginistic at best.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:25:04

TheNewson

Why has Kate been transformed into a 70-year-old woman for the advertising poster? These ludicrous 'shock' tactics are merely insulting to 'older' mothers.

KATE SAYS I would never want to do anything to insult older mothers, not least because i am one! - having given birth to my first child at 38 and my second at 42 and would still love to have more now at 46! I believe choosing when to have a child is entirely a couples personal decision and it has to be when it is right for them. But generally in life I have personally always found it is best to have all the information so one can make an informed decision and this campaign hopes to give couples just that.
In relation to the photo, one of the facts that surprised me the most in the survey accompanying this campaign is that despite the UK delaying childbirth longer than most other countries in the world, when asked nearly seventy per cent of people in our society said that the forties was not the best time for women to get pregnant. So it began us asking, what is going on in our society that most people seem to disapprove of older mothers and yet more and more of us our doing it?. So we began debating the reasons why this may be and it has been fascinating seeing everyone engaging in that debate too. The photo is definitely arresting but if society is expressing views on how old a mother should be the photo is intended to engage debate on - how old is too old? And it certainly seems to have worked!

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:26:02

tunnocksteacake

Does fertility really drop off a cliff at 35? I am 34 and we'd like a third but we want to wait a year for various reasons. Two DCs conceived quickly and born when I was 30 and 32.5, a miscarriage in between. Thanks!

Zita says it is different for everyone. The fact that you have had two children is good. But as you age you do face greater risks of miscarriage. I know that there are many reasons for people delaying having a child ranging from financial concerns to relationship issues to health concerns. But the older you are, the more your options decline. I think you stand a really good chance of conceiving again so best of luck with your journey.

Heavywheezing Wed 22-May-13 13:28:02

Do you think it's reasonable for women to think how many children they would like over their whole fertile life?
I think it's good to front a campaign like this.
I say this as a mum of two, first baby at 34 second at 37. I'd like the option to have another but I think I'm too old and too tired at 39.

I should have had children earlier so I'd like the option of having more. Time waits for no woman!

hurricanewyn Wed 22-May-13 13:29:42

Thank you Zita for your answer - I'm astounded by that & a little bit saddened. Certainly be talking to my children about fertility, as well as contraception.

tunnocksteacake Wed 22-May-13 13:30:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KentishWine Wed 22-May-13 13:33:54

Having a child is expensive and is beyond the reach of many young couples who have to contend with university debts, high rents, poor job market....

You say that By raising awareness of these issues we hope the campaign will be able to highlight some of the challenges people are facing

In my experience, people have an awareness of these issues, but awareness is not going to pay for childcare.

Do you have any practical advice for young working couples who want children but cannot afford them? The only thing I can think of is to wait.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:36:07

rhetorician

Whilst I appreciate the personal tragedy involved for people who find that their fertility declines (and as tametortie's eloquent post illustrates, this is not purely age related) this campaign doesn't make much sense to me. The UKs birth rate is one of the highest in the EU, apart from Ireland which is the only country with a birth rate above 2.0. I would like to hear Kate and Garraway put forward reasons other than personal fulfilment why we should be trying to increase fertility, if our population is replacing itself...

kate says : You are right this campaign does not address the whole issue of population increases both in the UK and worldwide. it is essentially focused on the personal issues of couples who want to start a family and making sure they have the best advice and help available to do so.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:38:24

Heavywheezing

Do you think it's reasonable for women to think how many children they would like over their whole fertile life?
I think it's good to front a campaign like this.
I say this as a mum of two, first baby at 34 second at 37. I'd like the option to have another but I think I'm too old and too tired at 39.

I should have had children earlier so I'd like the option of having more. Time waits for no woman!

KATE SAYS: Your experience is typical of many and I wish you and your family well with whatever you decide in the future.

Andcake Wed 22-May-13 13:38:54

I married at 29 and hoped to get pregnant in my early 30's unfortunately the husband left for someone else and I spent the whole of my 30's in a race against time to meet a partner I liked enough to have children with. I cried myself to sleep with the huge longing to have a child and the awareness of my ticking clock. I know/knew many women (career women) who feel as sad and ths campaign will just make them more miserable.

I finally achieved motherhood at 40 after trying for 3 yrs to conceive. I had no choice in my predicament. If I was to follow the advice of this campaign what age should I have just bought some donor sperm and done it myself?

I too have a lot of time for zits (sorry had to google Kate to find out who she is) and just feel this campaign will just make women miserable. If I ever needed a pregnancy test again I would not buy first response. Actually I hate the fact I am contributing to this thread as 'engaging people in a conversation' to raise their profile was probably their objective.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:39:40

TheNewson

OK, here's the thing. Lack of partner and financial security aside, I didn't actually want children until my 30s.

I had twins naturally at 32. In previous years this age was deemed geriatric for first children (even though my Nan had kids from when she was aged between 18-40)

Yes, we all know that ideally women should be in their 20s but in this day of choice I'm glad I waited. I feel this campaign edges into the arena of (informed) choice, and I'm uncomfortable with that.

Most of the people this campaign is aimed at are intelligent enough to realise that the body is supposedly best at having children in its 20s; yet for various reasons, that are diverse and far from simple, that does not always happen.

Question: So isn't the campaign pointless? What are you hoping to change/prompt when people are well informed on this complex issue?

Zita says: People are not well informed. Many men and women do not know about fertility awareness. Why do they seek my advice if they know everything? The most common things I come across are the pressure on couples having to deal with the uncertainty about when they will conceive and lack of control with their situation when all of their friends around them are getting pregnant and they are not. They feel lost and without a plan of action. Male factor fertility is increasing. It is also very common now to have the couple with the issue- not just the woman. Women want to know when to have sex, understand their fertile window and they focus too much on ovulation and not enough on the sperm. So I disagree. The campaign is not pointless and is much needed to educate and empower men and women.

I really dont understand this campaign, what are the statistics for woman who have children in either their late thirties or early forties with no fertility problems? I and many of my friends have had children later, none of us have come across any negativity. I find this mock up photo deeply offensive.

I think its highly irresponsible to encourage woman to have children younger who are either not in a financial position or in a stable relationship. You can enducate more about fertility issues after 35 but again I havent met anyone who wasnt aware of this.

And however you say this now on this forum this campaign does seem to be aimed at woman, not men.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:46:13

Heavywheezing

Do you think it's reasonable for women to think how many children they would like over their whole fertile life?
I think it's good to front a campaign like this.
I say this as a mum of two, first baby at 34 second at 37. I'd like the option to have another but I think I'm too old and too tired at 39.

I should have had children earlier so I'd like the option of having more. Time waits for no woman!

Zita says: I really do think men and women need to look ahead and think about how many children they would like. In another thread I have outlined just how long it can take to have a family. The biggest thing is not to look back and have any regrets.

You are certainly not too old to have another baby at 39. Many women in my clinic are in their late thirties and early forties and they make fabulous mothers.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:47:39

DreamsTurnToGoldDust

I really dont understand this campaign, what are the statistics for woman who have children in either their late thirties or early forties with no fertility problems? I and many of my friends have had children later, none of us have come across any negativity. I find this mock up photo deeply offensive.

I think its highly irresponsible to encourage woman to have children younger who are either not in a financial position or in a stable relationship. You can enducate more about fertility issues after 35 but again I havent met anyone who wasnt aware of this.

And however you say this now on this forum this campaign does seem to be aimed at woman, not men.

KATE SAYS I wonder whether you think that the campaign is more aimed at women because so far it is mostly women commentators who have engaged with it and so therefore they are speaking from a women's perspective. I can reassure you the campaign is focused on both sexes but as Zita has already said all too often it is women she sees in her practice who are experiencing the pain of infertility. No one is telling younger (or older women for that matter) to DO anything and certainly not anything irresponsible of something that doesn't feel right for them. The aim is to simply raise awareness of the issues so more women don't sleepwalk into infertility and to offer help and advice to couples trying to conceive.

parabelle Wed 22-May-13 13:50:13

Male factor fertility is increasing. It is also very common now to have the couple with the issue- not just the woman. Women want to know when to have sex, understand their fertile window and they focus too much on ovulation and not enough on the sperm. So I disagree. The campaign is not pointless and is much needed to educate and empower men and women.

If this is the case, what are your plans to educate men and empower them? Your campaign thus far seems to be merely about women.

VCPTracy Wed 22-May-13 13:51:14

My mum had me at 16 (im now 34) and My youngest sister at 41, she will admit at being a better mum at 41 than she was at 16, she says she had more patience, was less bothered by what others thought and followed her instincts more. Its not the age at which you have a baby its if you are a good parent, although having a baby at 70, which is what that picture depicts (even if its not the message they are wishing to convey) is ridiculous and I think all 70 yr old will agree!

EduCated Wed 22-May-13 13:51:39

So please, what outcomes are you aiming for, in tangible measurable terms? Otherwise this just seems like a barely masked marketing campaign, which is fine if you call it what it is.

Lighthousekeeping Wed 22-May-13 13:51:51

I could ask my ten year old niece and I'm sure she'd tell me the same thing. Women aren't stupid I don't know anyone that would think its easier to get pregnant in their forties than twenties. Not one person. I hate this campaign it's ridiculous and a waste of money.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:56:50

Andcake

I married at 29 and hoped to get pregnant in my early 30's unfortunately the husband left for someone else and I spent the whole of my 30's in a race against time to meet a partner I liked enough to have children with. I cried myself to sleep with the huge longing to have a child and the awareness of my ticking clock. I know/knew many women (career women) who feel as sad and ths campaign will just make them more miserable.

I finally achieved motherhood at 40 after trying for 3 yrs to conceive. I had no choice in my predicament. If I was to follow the advice of this campaign what age should I have just bought some donor sperm and done it myself?

I too have a lot of time for zits (sorry had to google Kate to find out who she is) and just feel this campaign will just make women miserable. If I ever needed a pregnancy test again I would not buy first response. Actually I hate the fact I am contributing to this thread as 'engaging people in a conversation' to raise their profile was probably their objective.

Zita says: It really saddens me to hear your story. I am so pleased that you now have a baby and I do see situations like yours so frequently in my clinic. I know these real issues and I know women often don't meet their partners until later or have painful relationship break ups just at the point where they want a child. This campaign is not about advising men or women to have babies young. It is about becoming more fertility aware and not about judging, attacking or condemning men or women at any stage. The reason I got involved was to support men and women.

SeriousStuff Wed 22-May-13 13:56:52

Can you please acknowledge the questions referring to waiting until you find the right man rather than settling for the sake of having children younger? I think this is a key argument.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:57:31

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn

Whilst i "get" the basic intention behind this campaign, I'm afraid I'm another woman who finds it patronising. Those of us who are over 30 are constantly bombarded with messages that we are too career driven and selfish for "waiting" to have children.

It fails to take into account the fact that many women are not in the right relationship at their most fertile age or are not financially able to support children. Or, as in my case, have fertility issues that they are unaware of until they actually start trying to conceive. I would love to have had children in my 20s, but have been struggling with previously unknown fertility issues for 3 years. At the age of 32 I feel utterly wretched when I read commentators and experts essentially saying "it's your own fault for not trying sooner."

KATE SAYS: I know exactly what you mean by being bombarded with mixed messages. We actively encourage teenagers not to have babies, we applaud young career women in their twenties and then before you know it you find yourself as I did at a friend's wedding and being quizzed by everyone about why you haven't got round to reproducing yet. If we listened to society we would be in a total spin. I am hoping this campaign will help everyone who is interested to get the information and facts they need to equip themselves to make their own life choices. I really wish you well with tackling your own fertility issues and I hope having Zita West's expertise available may shed light on your problems.

SeriousStuff Wed 22-May-13 13:57:53

Came through as I posted - thanks

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 13:58:50

Lighthousekeeping

I could ask my ten year old niece and I'm sure she'd tell me the same thing. Women aren't stupid I don't know anyone that would think its easier to get pregnant in their forties than twenties. Not one person. I hate this campaign it's ridiculous and a waste of money.

Zita says: I disagree. In my experience, a significant number of men and women do not know all the facts.

SarahMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 22-May-13 13:59:38

Hey everyone - thanks for all your questions. Kate and Zita are about to finish up now - thanks to them, too, for coming on.

KateandZita Wed 22-May-13 14:01:26

Thank you so much for all your interest. It has been fascinating to hear all your views. I hope you continue to follow the campaign as it progresses.
Kate and Zita xx

EduCated Wed 22-May-13 14:05:38

Well that was informative helpful enlightening educational ...um...

I agree Edu, although I have to say I actually feel rather cross, poster after poster have said they dont understand the campaign and that we know any one who doesnt realise that our fertility starts declining in our middle 30s. We`ve just been told over and over again here that actually the majority of people dont know that hmm

Lighthousekeeping Wed 22-May-13 14:18:47

I'm my experience working in the area as well, they do know the facts.

KentishWine Wed 22-May-13 14:24:35

Still no idea what this campaign is about.

I totally disagree with Zita that People are not well informed. Many men and women do not know about fertility awareness. Why do they seek my advice if they know everything?

Zita, the men and women who seek your advice may not be well informed, but the majority of people are. This is like a GP saying "god, everyone in this country is really sick". Nope, just the people who come to see you.

Lighthousekeeping Wed 22-May-13 14:33:04

Maybe the people that go to see Zita just think they can chuck money at the problem and it will work? The rest of just get on with it.

I guess we should have asked how much money are Kate and Zita getting for fronting this mass marketing ploy campaign.

Lighthousekeeping Wed 22-May-13 14:38:05

I bet the Daily Fail loves it

Andcake Wed 22-May-13 14:42:55

Maybe we should start a mn boycott of first response for creating this sexist daily ail encouraging campaign!

KentishWine Wed 22-May-13 14:45:44

I certainly wont be reaching for a First Response if/when I need to test. Probably not the outcome the marketing team was after.

Just read through this thread. Felt very much that the patronising tone of the campaign is being well and truly helped along by Kate and Zita. But nice of them to add kisses to their goodbye post. That made me feel like they cared hmm

Greythorne Wed 22-May-13 14:50:09

Too late for the chat, but my question is when is the media campaign aimed at men starting, with a male spokeperson talking about male factor infertility and commitment-phobic men?

rhetorician Wed 22-May-13 15:12:21

Don't get it either, surely the campaign should focus on other issues that (as posters here have said over and over) that lead to later parenthood. And these are more structural than men not being ready to commit and come down to questions relating to financial security, job security, employment patterns, inaccessiblity of housing, lack of good affordable childcare, career structures that seemingly cannot accommodate parenthood...I think focussing on the personal fulfilment part of the equation weakens potentially powerful arguments and (inadvertently? Indirectly?) blames women.

CharlesDancer Wed 22-May-13 15:23:51

Perhaps they could have had a male fronting the campaign alongside Kate and Zita for a bit of balance.

EuroShaggleton Wed 22-May-13 15:25:31

Or they could let the campaign quietly die, as it seems to have completely backfired and be based on no more than a couple of anecdotes about couples saying "ooo, I wish we had started earlier"....

JuicyPear Wed 22-May-13 15:30:00

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

CabbageLooking Wed 22-May-13 15:30:36

Well that was half an hour of my life that I'll never get back and I should probably have spent shagging in a desperate last ditch attempt to get pregnant by the nearest fertile man.

Haberdashery Wed 22-May-13 15:44:48

JuicyPear grin

TallyGrenshall Wed 22-May-13 15:48:36

Well, that was a whole load of posts to say nothing informative at all really.

Piffpaffpoff Wed 22-May-13 16:20:49

I was 35 when I had my first and 37 when I had my second. Every single first-time-mum chum that I had worried about whether they were too old to have a second (or third). We all knew the clock was ticking. It had been drilled into us by the Daily Mail and many other much more reliable sources.

I think this campaign is a pile of nonsense to be honest and I just don't see the point of it. Although I might do, if First Response brings out some shiney new ovulation predictor kit especially for older ladies shortly. (cynical? Moi? grin)

Lighthousekeeping Wed 22-May-13 17:25:46

Oh dear. That was a bit awkward and not what the clever PR team were expecting am sure.

ChocsAwayInMyGob Wed 22-May-13 17:35:33

If, as Kate claimed, this campaign IS aimed at men as well as women, will they be doing articles in men's magazines? No, I doubt it.

This is just First Response trying to panic and guilt women into increasing First Responses sales figures.

It is impossible to decide you will have a baby at 25 since you may be single at that age, or only meet young commitment phobes.

Speak to the men Zita and Kate. Go to Maxim and FHM and Men's Health. Don't patronise us.

WilsonFrickett Wed 22-May-13 17:53:42

Agree Sauce. Awkward.

I'm a bit disappointed in Zita West's toeing of the PR line if I'm honest.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Wed 22-May-13 18:00:26

My worry would be that basically telling women to get cracking with the kids or they're screwed may result in them having a child before they're ready - or settling for an unsuitable man.

It really shouldn't be baby at any cost. It isn't just about a woman easily having a child. It's about bringing a person into the world who has the right to be raised by parents who are ready to take on that commitment and can afford it!

I don't think that there are many women out there who don't know about declining fertility. Yes. Fertility declines. What are your options? Find a bloke, any bloke will do? Have a child when you don't have money? have a child in your 20s even if you aren't emotionally ready to be a parent, because that's what women are for?

I was in my mid 20s when I had my children. It was the right time for me but it was pure luck that I had met someone I wanted to have children with. If I hadn't, what were my options? Walk round the streets offering myself? "Impregnate me, impregnate me"

How many women do they think are with a man that they want to have children with, have the money to afford children, are emotionally ready to be a parent (and the man is too!) and are sitting there thinking oooh, I'll just give it until I'm 40 and then have a crack at it.

People don't have a baby because the circumstances are not right for them to have a baby.

If your circumstances are not right for you to have a child you have no business having one! It's not just about you having a child - it's about a child having you!

MadBusLady Wed 22-May-13 18:09:53

Couldn't agree more Hec. The whole "pop a couple out" way some people talk about this is really alarming. It may (generalising wildly here) be linked to a point of view that sees the whole thing as being more about having lovely snuggly babies, than about deciding to create other human people, which is how I see it.

Ilovemyrabbits Wed 22-May-13 18:22:44

I had fertility issues at 30. I would have had the same issues at 21, as that's when I had my first miscarriage. By the 4th, I was 36 and dd was born.

I find it totally disconcerting that a woman could front a campaign like this that is CLEARLY directed towards the marketing of First Response fertility products. It shows no concern for women who are caught up in the emotional turbulence of recurrent miscarriage or/and infertility. What an awful, awful campaign.

DharmaBums Wed 22-May-13 19:02:35

I feel really angry and affronted at the responses from zita and Kate. It's obvious the campaign has been targeted at women and not men ( choice of media for instance - femail, really? men?) and I think their responses were patronising. I for one will not be buying any first response branded products EVER and will be turning over when KG is on tv. Crappy answers both - probably reading off a PR crib sheet...

enormouse Wed 22-May-13 19:16:13

I agree with you dharma. It all felt a bit trite and lacking emotional depth or understanding.

olivertheoctopus Wed 22-May-13 19:21:09

I find this utterly perplexing. It seems that this 'campaign' is aimed at what I perceive to me a minority of women who are in committed relationships from a young age but actively choose not to have kids until their 30's. Whereas my own experience, and that of many on here, and that of virtually every single friend I can think of, is actually that most of these women haven't actually MET their long-term 'yes I would like to have babies with you' partner until relatively late in life. How many couples are there out there these days who have met at uni or wherever and then decided to wait a decade before having kids? Not my experience at all.

DuelingFanjo Wed 22-May-13 19:39:28

Didn't Kate see my question?fft.

OddSockMonster Wed 22-May-13 19:57:47

Well, I'm quite glad now that I only ever relied on Boots own brand pregnancy tests.

What were the deleted posts about? I wasn't around earlier to see them?

They are claiming they are doing something

1. There is a need for
2. Altruistically sharing their personal and professional experience to meet this need

They were unable to convince me of either. As has already been said, Campaign looks like a cover to launch a fertility checker kit.

WouldBeHarrietVane Wed 22-May-13 20:18:35

Disappointing webchat. Has put me off both Zita and First Response tbh. Didn't really know who Kate G was.

I think where most people are telling you that they think you have the wrong focus you need to be open to listening. They didn't sad

Shame as there are lots of things I would have liked to ask ZW about my fertility for TTC %23 2.

Gigondas Wed 22-May-13 20:19:00

I am with dharma on response . Was particularly hmm about Zita west response as I have actually been to her clinic . Don't think will bother recommending it now.

WouldBeHarrietVane Wed 22-May-13 20:19:05

TTC no 2 that should say.

Though I felt a bit sorry for MN in office trying to be all cheery and "riiiiiiighhht, well thanks for coming guys! Good luck with the campaign!"

MeiMeiMeiMei Wed 22-May-13 20:53:46

Epic PR fail there grin

Softywife Wed 22-May-13 21:03:40

Another one frustrated by this 'campaign'; I wanted children at a younger age but I didn't settle down until my 30s. Then my husband didn't want to try until I was 35. Thankfully we have two children now but I was under no illusion that it was guaranteed in my late 30s.

Should I have just grabbed the nearest bloke whilst I was still in my 20s.....?!!!

How is this campaign going to persuade men to want to become dads at a younger age?!!!

WouldBeHarrietVane Wed 22-May-13 21:21:37

Omg I have just looked at the daily mail piece - the photo is awful shock

How on earth could first response or Zita West think this will work?

brettgirl2 Wed 22-May-13 21:28:56

So...... I was shock horror married to dh at 24, in own house and had my first baby at 31. How selfish to wait till we were ready to start a family when we had no real excuse to not procreate earlier hmm

KaseyM Wed 22-May-13 22:27:32

How many abortions are carried out by young women because, whilst the woman in her heart wants to keep the baby, the father is either emotionally or financially unready and the mother herself doesn't have the financial/emotional strength to go it alone in a society that stigmatises single mothers?

That's the question they need to be asking if they want to increase childbirth amongst young women.

WilsonFrickett Wed 22-May-13 22:42:32

Ah well.

Vipers - 1
Poorly conceived patronising PR campaign - 0

KaseyM Wed 22-May-13 22:54:12

Who are the vipers?

FunnysInLaJardin Wed 22-May-13 23:07:02

us lot Kasey

DuelingFanjo Thu 23-May-13 13:20:11

Kate Garraway is in the Mail, again today talking about how badly she wants a third child and how that is the thing that made her want to front the campaign. How she regrets not starting a family earlier.

As a person with one child conceived through IVF I find it really irritating to have someone lecture women on starting a family earlier while simultaneously moaning all the bloody time about how she can't have a third child. TOUGH! get some counselling or something Kate, because you are one of the lucky ones who had not just one, but two children very easily almost as soon as you started thinking you wanted them. If I and thousands of other people with just one child are able to be grateful about our child then why can't you be happy with two. Even if you can't be, what makes you think that campaigning like this is going to be a good thing?

grrrr... it really pisses me off. Kate Silverton seems to have an altogether better way of approaching both late motherhood and only having one.

Justfornowitwilldo Thu 23-May-13 14:15:11

Thank you for that post DuelingFanjo. I couldn't understand why someone like Kate would involve herself with this patronising, insulting campaign. After googling I've realised that I was thinking of Kate Silverton. I'm not at all surprised at the ITV presenter being involved with this grin. Her previous work is much more in line with the Daily Mail's agenda of using women's emotional self flagellation to sell advertising space.

But didnt Kate Garraway meet her dh later in life? So I`m confused as to what she is actually saying really, what, that she wished she had had children earlier with someone else, you cant magically meet the right person at a said time. It also quite offending after having two to bleat about infertility, and I agree Dueling, Kate get some counselling.

I met DH later in life so to speak so have ended with just one (and dd from a very early failationship in life) would have loved another but was under no illusion that that would happen and it hasnt, but am terribly grateful for ds.

EuroShaggleton Thu 23-May-13 14:31:19

I think Kate and Zita are also confused about what they are actually saying, Dreams. Or at least it seemed that way from yesterday's discussion.

I had to sit on my hands during their discussion yesterday. They were being told over and over again that woman know fertility drops from 35, and kept answering no we dont hmm and Kate piping up that people disapproved of older mums nearly sent me over the edge. Not one bit of evidence, just `thats what woman tell us` I was totally grrr through it all!

DuelingFanjo Thu 23-May-13 14:47:55

Does anyone know how we can get to see the yougov survey that First reponse did? The articles I have seen suggest that the campaign came about as a result of the survey which revealed that 70% of over 55 year olds who responded to the survey think that having babies in your 40s is wrong or not ideal.

I actually used to like Kate Garraway, until she got behind this campaign.

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