Mumsnet Talk

Dear Keir,

How do you treat members of the CPS who are victims of sexual assault and rape?

and/or rape.

Last week on Radio 4‘s ‘Today’ programme a solicitor who represents abuse victims spoke about the CPS’s attitude of dismissiveness.

In my experience he’s right. Hearing it was upsetting but a relief. I don’t want to explain my own situation here.

With institutional racism organisations had to dig deep and to me this seems similar.

So my 2nd question is, what do you think of that?

How can victims who feel Stonewalled in their own cases get better answers? Ie victim has a question, the answer from OIC is - "that's a CPS decision I don't know" but a victim cannot speak to CPS to get answers to their questions and the police not seeing it as their job to question CPS.

Do you agree that "jokes" like the one in FHM do little to help the attitude towards victims of these types of crime.

here

And in relation to the above do you agree that the campaigns which send the message that women should stop getting themselves raped are equally unhelpful?

I'm not very comfortable with how the questions have been set out. It looks like you are giving greater credence to the myth of false allegations. Whilst some women do, it is an incredibly tiny minority. A large number of the "false allegations" involve women who withdraw their allegation; women who are then prosecuted for being too afraid to continue the complaint. "False allegations" also involve women with quite serious histories of mental illness or women who misidentify their attacker. Why the emphasis on false allegations when most rapists are never even convicted of rape?

I am with SGM here. Do you have these measures in place for the false allegations of any other crime? And how do you think these special measures are helping with the inherent misogyny and attitudes towards women reporting domestic abuse and rape throughout the law enforcement and court systems, which lets face it, is why report rates are so low?

Yes, what are these 'special arrangements', and why?

What would you say to a friend of mine who was in court last week as a witness giving evidence against her husband who assaulted her? Although the people from Victim Support were very supportive, and arranged for her to give evidence via video link, my friend had no idea about the legal process.

She was scared, overwhelmed and frightened. She spoke to the CPS prosecutor for about 5 minutes before court which really wasn't enough time.

Seems to me there would be scope for having an amicus type person to represent the victim and their interests, especially in domestic abuse cases as she felt her voice wasn't being heard on the same legal footing as the defendant.

Agree that the ordering of the points for discussion could have been more sensitive!

given that, as I understand it, in the overwhelming majority of rape cases - or perhaps more accurately cases of rape, including those which do not make it to court - the defendant is guilty but there is insufficient evidence to convict, has the introduction of a 'not proven' verdict ever been considered, and if so, why was it turned down?

It would seem more accurately to reflect the unprovability which is a central problem in the relationship between rape and the law and prevent victims from suffering the additional (considerable) psychological trauma of not being believed in court - would you agree?

It seems to me that these special arrangements are once more singling out rape as a special/different crime. But more importantly they seem to tackling the symptoms rather than the cause, if not actually perpetuating the problem of low report/conviction rates. The cause of low report/conviction rates is because women aren't believed in society and that is misogynistic. Tackling "false" allegations either by prosecution of the woman or by establishing that she hasn't actually made a false allegation is not tackling why officers of the law think women lie. It isn't tackling any of the many other rape myths and attitudes of society towards women.

As implementors and co-creators (or at least at some consultation level) of the law you are in a unique position of being able to influence the greater society for the better in this matter. Emphasising a rape myth and a symptom of attitudes and values doesn't seem to me to be a very good way of tackling the real problem.

I think what is key to reducing levels of rape and sexual assault is improving understanding of the law on consent. It is frequently mis or not understood generally in society and I think that the govt ads aimed at young people, who are the group who experience the highest levels of violence, are a good move but they are not clear enough e.g. They perpetuate the myth that unless she says no it isn't rape in the minds of people who don't understand consent, and they are not adequate.

The cps guidelines on the law on sexual offences are very clear but unfortunately not known about or accepted by a significant number of people I think. Are there any plans to promote the guidelines or educate children about the law on consent?

Does it concern you (or is there a reasoning behind) the fact you single out 'women' who falsely allege rape? Do men never falsely allege rape? How much research has been put into this? Or do you just assume it's more important to focus on women as a sop to the rape myth that false accusations are very common?

Re the massive numbers of unreported rapes - I recently provided police with some information about my ex partner who raped me a number of times. I provided the information as police intelligence as I did not want to deal with an investigation.
It proved really difficult to establish whether it was actually possible to provide intelligence in this sort of situation. The person I spoke to when I first called Rape Crisis had no idea whether it would be possible. However, when I eventually did speak to the police (through Rape Crisis) it transpired that they do have other women who choose to provide intelligence alone (as opposed to making allegations).
If it is useful for women to provide this type of intelligence, why is there not more awareness that it is an option for someone who has been raped?

The End Violence Against Women Coalition reports that 1/3 of girls aged 16-18 have experienced sexual assault or sexual bullying in schools.

School is likely the time where young men and boys form lifelong attitudes to violence against women.

What is the CPS doing/what further role can it play in preventing/prosecuting sexual assault in schools?

DH is a CPS Prosecutor and prosecutes DV and rape cases. There have been lots of administrative and structural changes at the CPS as well as cuts in the number of prosecutors. He rarely has sufficient time to prepare cases before the trial and does not feel that he can do his job properly and fairly represent the victim. How does the DPP intend to address this to ensure that all victims of crime get a good service from the CPS.

DH is a CPS Prosecutor and prosecutes DV and rape cases. There have been lots of administrative and structural changes at the CPS as well as cuts in the number of prosecutors. He rarely has sufficient time to prepare cases before the trial and does not feel that he can do his job properly and fairly represent the victim. How does the DPP intend to address this to ensure that all victims of crime get a good service from the CPS.

A dear friend was raped by her husband and withdrew the allegation because he threatened her at knifepoint. When she was raped by a stranger some years later, the police did not investigate because they decided she was obviously a liar.

How does your department intend to help women like my friend? And can you see how your emphasis on false allegations is very harmful to people like my friend? Twice justice has been denied to her.

Following on from what sunnywithachanceofshowers said, when are the other crimes committed around rape and sexual assault going to be prosecuted too? Why wasn't that man charged with threats to kill when he threatened her at knifepoint?

Rape and sexual assault seem to be a licence to commit crime because only that element is focused on. In my first rape, he falsely imprisoned me, threatened to kill me or permanently scar me, threatened the other women in my house and intimidated me for months afterwards. The police didn't even acknowledge those aspects. How can you prove a rape when the authorities don't let you mention that you were being physically restrained or locked in a room but talk in vague terms about consent?

It means only half the information is being presented and no wonder juries hesitate to convict on that. There was a case of a man being raped on a towpath near (I think) Southampton a few years back where charges of false imprisonment and kidnap were added on. There was a conviction and a long sentence. I've never heard of it in a woman's case and I feel this is yet another way we are being failed by the police & CPS.

I was told I was 'unladylike' when I repeated some of what my rapist had threatened to do to me...

Have you seen this anti-rape campaign currently being run in Scotland which places the blame for rape on the shoulders of rapists: www.lbp.police.uk/information/latest_news/news_archives/2012/sept_2012/we_can_stop_it_campaign.aspx

Why aren't English and Welsh jurisdictions joining in this campaign.?

Rape is such a common part of domestic violence, yet British courts presume a child's relationship with a father is more important than an abused women being protected from continuing abuse from their ex-partner.

Do you not see the damage caused to children and women when they are legally obligated to continue a relationship with an abusive man? This is a common reason women don't charge former partners with abuse because they know that they will neither be believed nor protected from long-term violence.

All this does is continue to perpetuate violent relationships raising another generation of children in violence.

Thank you for taking the time to do this webchat. I'm a regular but have name-changed here.

My question: is there any point in reporting a historic rape case? What do you do in such circumstances?

What I have read on the Rape Crisis website and the Scottish government website (though I am guessing that the DPP has only responsibility for England?) talks about what you do when you are raped, but I am dealing with something which happened nearly 13 years ago, which I did not deal with at the time because I had two recent close bereavements and no family support and I just seem to have repressed it, because it was too much to deal with, till it re-surfaced this summer in my mind, to my distress. I’m guessing as there is no evidence, apart from what I am saying, there is no case, even if I wanted to bring one.

To complicate matters, the person who did it is not British, they are not resident in this country any more. So, personally I am not sure what, if anything, one could do here. But if you could answer my general question above, I would really appreciate it.