To kick these people out?(1000 Posts)
7 yrs and this is my first AIBU, and I'm so cowardly I've name changed
So... After years of renting crappy places dh, the 4dcs and I have finally bought a lovely house.
It's great. Needs loads of work doing on it. Lots of potential, completely neglected and now ours. The people who had it before us had some problems and had criminally neglected their animals. The house comes with a field.
Now begins the lovely story. A few years ago Some people passing by saw how neglected the horse in the field was and took it upon themselves to look after it. They did amazing things, built him a shelter, bought him food, trimmed his hooves, all of it.
The horse is a stallion and unbroken but of nice temperament. But it means he can be flighty.
Move on a year and one of the group has taken on most of the care and bought their own horse who now lives rent free in the field.
Two weeks before completion the owner tells us we will be inheriting a cat and that the horses are staying (he's gifted the stallion to the other horse owner)
So... We panicked until lovely horse person came to our door and seemed very nice, and we said they could stay until Easter and then we'd see (rent free).
This all seemed ok, but there have been annoyances: There's no where else to park but in our drive, when we want to wander around the field with the dcs we have to struggle through two horses and it's a nightmare, and now finally we have bought out longed for dog and I can't walk him on my field without someone with me because I can't carry a baby and a puppy and fend off the horses on my own, in December we were told they use one of our sheds for feed, And there are other people who are part of the group who have not introduced themselves to me, but who go on to my field regularly.
So this evening we've let the horse owner know that beyond the end of march we want our field back. At the moment I've used it twice since we moved in and I want to use it daily.
They're not happy. I tell a lie, one is not happy, the other is completely understanding.
I know they did a good thing, I know they put work into the field (shelter and fencing) but I also know they've had free pasture for 18 months in return, and I think it's become a picnic spot for them all.
AIBU? And should I be growing a backbone, because I'm already trying to think of a way to section off some of it, which I know would only end up delaying the inevitable? I'm also worried because I'm in no way insured to have this all going on on my property.
I want nice things for the people who have done good, but at the same time I want to enjoy my home. I also have PND and desperately want to be outside but can't cope with being around people. Just to throw that in there.
It's your land, you can do what you want. I think giving until March is VERY reasonable.
I've already been told 2 1/2 mths is too soon.
I think it's loads of notice
You given them plenty of notice, stop wording what they think.
I would make sure you put it all in writing,and take legal advice.
You aren't being unreasonable at all. It's your property freehold to do with as you wish, and you've given them lots of notice.
Don't back down, if they start hinting about paying rent, just keep saying sorry, you have other plans for the field, and don't feel pressured into extending their permission beyond the end of March.
If it was just the nice horse lady, I'd think about maybe setting up a proper rental agreement, but this other woman sounds like an entitled cow and far better to just get rid.
You've given them notice. 2.5 months should be enough. Put it in writing.
Yanbu stick to your guns, stay polite and see what happens
You don't think these people deserve to be rewarded for their good deed?
YANBU - they've had 18months free for their horses, which they've repaid in making the field safe. The savings they've made on stabling have probably more than compensated - you've given them 2.5 months notice which is more than adequate. In fact, you've only cut the notice period down by a few weeks. They would have / should have expected notice being given the moment the properly exchanged hands tbh
You are being completely reasonable and if you're honest with yourself you know you are too. Best of luck, stand your ground.
FYI - average stabling costs
The lowest stabling at £345 plus hay £45 per month means that for 18months, you've saved them £7000. Do not give into the guilt.
Thanks oh power of mn. I know no is a complete sentence and all that, but I'm not good at it.
Anyone would think I'd just shot a horse by the reaction
Is there anything in writing by way of any agreement? If not, you are being reasonable. Can you get someone else to deal with the unreasonable one? Stand your ground and don't think that coming to some sort of compromise will work.
You sound very reasonable..make sure it is all done legally....2 1/2 months is plenty notice
CSI that's a good way of viewing it
Something tells me that they will be seeing it as I am now costing them this amount.
I really hope I'm wrong and it was just shock and that it all becomes amicable.
Soup, nothing in writing so I could walk out there and open the gates if I wanted to (I'm not going to!)
I think reasonable one will be working as intermediary from here on in. She really was stressing that any issues it is ours and they must do what we want.
Good luck. You have every right to enjoy your field.
I wouldn't feel indebted to them whatsoever, I would be of the opinion that they did those good deeds for the previous owner - not for you! You owe them nothing!
So no one thinks I'm the evil new person coming in and meanly kicking them out?
That's what I feel like.
This can't be a unanimous AIBU. That's ungodly.
I think the previous owner should have had the necessary conversations with these people - he/she was in no position to tell you or them that the horses would be staying after completion! What a cheek!! I appreciate their disappointment but they should take up any grievance with previous owner IMO. YADNBU op and good luck. You sound lovely by the way.
It's totally ungodly but 100% right - you are not being unreasonable. I'd never have managed 18 months, I'd have had lazy potato beds up and running in the first spring and would have sold the horse back to them. Or to someone else. Or cordoned it off and rented it to them.
I know precious little about keeping horses or moving them around from one stable or pasture to another, but I think you have been very reasonable. The land is yours, and you are entitled to use it as you wish.
These two cannot expect to keep horses rent-free forever. That is taking the piss. All animals come with upkeep costs.
Would you consider allowing them to continue using the field if they were to rent it from you? With all legally binding agreements drawn up, of course.
The problem could be that you have no written agreement with these people. It sounds as if everything is verbal/tacit. I hope that won't cause too many problems when it comes to getting them off your land, because it also means there is no written exit/break clause either.
I would put in writing everything you want them to do, and the date you want them to leave the field. It still gives them a couple of months to find elsewhere for the horses.
Erm, haven't they been rewarded for their good deed with a free horse and free stabling for their other horse!?!
Put it in writing.
nobody keeps horses for free!!
give them notice in writing and keep a copy.
Tops that is excellent advice.
Unfortunately (?) part of our mortgage agreement is that the land is not for business use (which is fine by us because we want to use it!) so even if we wanted to rent it out we couldn't with our current mortgage. Another reason we don't want them there.
YANBU, it's your field and you've already been more than generous.
From their side...they may have issues finding somewhere else as the horse is a stallion. A lot of stables I knew when I had horses (admittedly a long time ago) wouldn't accept stallions onto their yard due to the obvious issue with the mares and some thought them disruptive even with geldings. However, I could be wrong and someone with far more experience might disagree.
I am feeling very reassured that I'm not an evil barsteward.
I think you are being very reasonable
Just to add, YADNBU. You have been very fair, understanding and clear. Put it in writing, hand it to the more reasonable one.
Horses aside, you do not have to give complete strangers access to your land. For any purpose.
They have had a free horse , free keep for free horse and free keep for companion horse.
They must have known it wouldn't last forever and that maybe one day the field would have a new owner.
If it were my field, would give them notice, as you have done, and then padlock the gate at the end of the notice period. Irrespective of whether horse etc had been moved.
I doubt it will come to that though. Have you thought how you will keep the grass down when they've gone...?
Enjoy your field
not jealous at all
Tail I do think they will struggle to find somewhere for him. I know they have tried in the past. I think I may be emotionally blackmailed with "he'll have to be put down" at some point.
Agree you are right to give notice. However, be aware that there is a possibility that they may abandon both or just the stallion on your land. This becomes a grey area especially as the stallion was gifted ( paperwork? ) so proving who owns and is responsible for his welfare could get tricky. Google horse/equine abandonment and fly grazing, not just with regard to what may happen with these horses, but also to prevent others using your field for fly grazing or disposing of unwanted horses.
Sorry Complete I didn't want to make you feel guilty. Perhaps they could have him gelded? Aren't there horse welfare societies who could help with that or even re-home him? They DO have options other than freeloading off you. This horse isn't your responsibility, it's theirs.
absolutely do not listen to any nonsense like that!
btw that costs too.....!
you sound really too kind.
Sparkling the cat is actually very sweet, she's an outdoors cat so no trouble (since dcs are allergic!)
I've got a tame farmer spare to graze it (not personally) and I want to get it plowed and reseeded etc.
The problem could be that you have no written agreement with these people. It sounds as if everything is verbal/tacit. I hope that won't cause too many problems when it comes to getting them off your land, because it also means there is no written exit/break clause either.
Any verbal agreement was with the previous owner surely? Unless it was somehow written into the conditions of sale that the people would be allowed to stay on the property (which would probably have made it virtually unsaleable anyway), then it has nothing to do with OP.
If it helps to show how very reasonable you are being OP, let me tell you that we were renting a barn and field (for money!) and the owners didn't even tell us it was up for sale. We arrived one day in the worst of winter to find a scrappy note pinned to the tack room door telling us they'd sold up and we had two weeks to get off.
We had issues with people keeping horses on our land and I would never, ever allow it again.
Stick to your guns, be firm, and have legal backup if necessary.
And do not listen to emotional blackmail either - people can get quite funny and weird about horses, in my experience.
Think he may be too old to geld now. Ultimately I think they genuinely care about his welfare and wouldn't risk him being hauled off to the glue factory. There will be a big padlock on the gate once they're gone
I'm so incensed by the imposition put onto you that I have delurked and registered to post a reply. These people are taking the piddle, however good their intentions. They have - by fair means or foul - managed to acquire for free a horse and grazing, not forgetting your shed space to keep any extras. The previous owner "gifting" the stallion was a purely selfish act designed to relieve them of the responsibility for the animal - you do not deserve the burden. Don't get me started on the irresponsibility of keeping it entire - it should be gelded unless there is a valid reason not to, such as amazing bloodlines or athletic potential.
You could open the gates but you seem like a nice person who wouldn't seriously consider that, and for that you deserve a medal. You have bought a house and field - you haven't taken on somebody else's responsibilities .... and, having found yourself with another person's problem, you have given more than adequate notice that you would like your field to be yours and they should be damned grateful for that.
Nobody who owns or cares for horses would expect a lay person to feel comfortable in a field with an unknown quantity, and definitely not with a stallion, fgs! You have a right to walk in your field with your puppy and your toddler without worry, and I speak as somebody who has owned horses for a lifetime. Give them notice, stick to your guns and take control of your field. If they care as much as their lip service indicates, they will either castrate the bloody thing and get it into a livery yard, or find some other way of looking after it. Good luck and wishing you well.
Pixel so I'm super-reasonable!
T3rr thank you so much for that post. I very much appreciate it. I understand the stallion has excellent bloodlines but with the owner passing on and their dcs not being capable of care it had been all but forgotten.
He's nearly 30, I'm guessing the health risk of gelding him would be too high?
goodness me, you were entirely entitled to throw the horse off when you moved in. You've given them a long time, put up with another horse, struggled with parking and had strangers coming into your field plus it's difficult for you to use your own field with your own child and dog? To the point that in all this time you've only used it twice when you want to use it daily?
......... No, you are not being the slightest bit unreasonable. You've given them all this time and even now you're giving them 10 weeks.
Actually you're being rather imposed on.
What did your solicitor have to say about all of this before you completed? do you have a contract in place with these tenants? if you don't, I would be trying to kick them off ASAP before some bright spark lets on to them that if they refuse to go, YOU might PAY them to go away. You have enormous potential problem in that one male horse is entire, and they are likely to have a problem finding somewhere else that will take him. people in general don't like stallions. cue them asking you if he can stay till he's gelded. Get moaning and picking fault/nagging at every transgression however minor on their part until they get so fed up they go (hopefully). the parking, the random strangers, horse shit in the field, junk left about etc etc, not raking up hay...
You are not being unreasonable, though they may have difficulty finding somewhere prepared to take on a stallion, and the reason they may have taken him on was because the costs were low so there is a chance to expect other people around over the next couple of months possibly viewing one or other of the horses.
The bottomline is its your field and any verbal promises from the previous owner are not legally binding to you, there was I assume nothing in the contract about the horses being allowed to remain.
You would also not be unreasonable to ask for an amount for rent of the field since you moved in, or since the notice.
Do put it in legal writing, and try to get contact numbers/addresses for the owners, so if they do not move their horses you can contact other organisations.
Meerka, hence my name. I'm a very private person and have always dreamed of having my own space to wander on. Not being able to use it upsets me. But I wouldn't want anyone else to suffer for what I want.
I am stupid.
Surely 30 is getting on a bit for a horse isn't it?
Not knowing much about stallions I've had a quick google and it seems the main concern with late gelding is that the horse has already developed a stallion temperament and may not change that afterwards. I can't see that it poses more risk for the horse but as I say I only had a quick look so I might be wrong, perhaps someone else knows or you could ask a vet? (just thought you might want some research as ammunition if they try the sob story on you).
What I do know about gelding is that vets are reluctant to do it in the summer because of the greater risk of infection due to flies, so if he was done now he'd have a couple of months to recover before being moved.
I think I'd have a meeting with nice lady and make it super-clear that you are very worried as your mortgage does not allow business use of the field, and that you are currently unable to get insurance for part of your property as well as being unable to use the field because of the children. Emphasise that if there were any accident, you would potentially be in a very messy situation. Say then in a very innocent voice that you had looked into the costs of stabling as you were concerned that they might be out of pocket for fencing and were astonished to find that through the use of the field they had already had more than £7000 worth of savings! Imagine that!! How lucky for them
Hopefully that should put pay to any sadfaces on their part and make it clear that you are worried about the situation and want them out PRONTO.
Do something along these lines please, otherwise it WILL get to March and it will be 'We have nowhere to go, another 3 weeks please please please...
This is your house. If anything because you have been so kind and understanding these people instead of being grateful are putting more pressure on you. You are now suffering because of the previous owner's failures to maintain things properly. I agree they were in no position to tell these people their horses could stay in the field.
Nothing in the contract, although I did verbally say that they could stay until Easter and then we'd see. But having lived with it I'm not happy.
Do you want to hear something even funnier? There's a water pipe to the land with its own meter. Guess which idiot is paying to water the horses?
(Disclaimer I only found out about this this week when I got a notice to fix a leak to a tap I didn't know existed, from the waterboard)
i don't think any vet would agree to geld a 30 year old stallion!
it is a hell of a job that would have to be done under general anaesthetic, at a vet hospital (not nice I have seen it done) - unlike a yearling where they just snip them off.......
anyway this is all by the by - these things are their problem, not yours.
It should be gelded anyway unless it is of rare breed or sporting significance. YANBU
That's what I thought nigella. For a stallion he is very nice. But not bloody safe around my dcs.
I want them to be able to go over and kick a football about
Ah sorry, posted too soon to see he was 30. Yes he would be too old!
Hang on, the previous owner sold you land that, according to him, he was not free to sell due to a verbal agreement with the horse owners? And you just accepted that? The minute he said that you should have been straight onto your solicitor to make eviction of the horses a condition of the sale. It might be too late now but I would still consult the solicitor. The whole thing is very dodgy from a legal standpoint.
When we bought our house we made it a condition of the sale that the loft be emptied (it was full of junk). We found after completion that it wasn't and in the end the previous owners had to give us £100 for a skip. We paid £50 for a skip and sold some of the junk so we made a profit in the end!
Should I get MUG tattoo'd on my forehead?
Cailin, the owners had some quite major issues, they left rooms full of stuff etc. they couldn't cope. I wouldn't burden them with anything more.
no, just compose your eviction letter, and look up some local solicitors.
can we help compose the letter?
But it is possible we'll have problems evicting. I truly hope not. If it gets nasty then I think I will not be quite such a pushover. I am completely rubbish with giving my all to the deserving, but I won't give in if they push it. And I think nice lady would fight for me and take away all her support if it came to a battle.
Nigella, I think it's your duty
Shoot the horses to feed the puppy ?
You have been more than reasonable and very accommodating. It also sounds like they are not exactly going out of their way to be unobtrusive and helpful either.... Do not back down!
Yadnbu at all
<horse lover and ex horse owner>
Itsallgoingtobefine, I just snorted wine!
Two birds? One stone.
Enorma, it's particularly helpful to have horsey people post that I'm being fair. Damnit I shouldn't have name changed!
ah 30 years old, hmmm then no chance of getting him gelded, that's very old for a horse. so you may get the we will have to have him PTS instead. that will cost them.
Get the money off them for them for the field water, no reason at all why you should not get that money back, especially when you want to get rid of them all, perfectly reasonable to expect them to pay it.
Your first time was a house with land? Are you in the UK? You are so lucky!
The horse will be put to sleep, at age 30 no-one is going to buy it and if its been in one place all its life moving a stallion that age is completely unfeasible. So you will probably be condemning it to death.
I actually think it sounds like quite a good set up. Can you not simply arrange a group meeting with these kind people who like looking after a horse in their neighbourhood and tell them where you don't want them to park and that you want to know who is coming and going? After all, there are advantages to you, which you might not come to appreciate unless you get used to them. They probably maintain your field and fences, the land is grazed and there are people coming and going which means you are less likely to be burgled and also when you are on holiday there will be someone looking after the place.
You and your children can get used to animals without having the hassle of ownership, and of course you can still use a field with horses in it. They might be curious at first but will soon lose interest. I often sunbathe in my the with my horses, they are really nice and friendly then after they realise you have no food for them, they ignore you.
£345 a month is not the average cost per month of a horse in a field. That would be the average price for full livery, where everything is done for you, the horse is fed and brought into a stable at nights and turned out into a field during the day, with all mucking out done. I would say if you are in a rural area, you might pay £50 a month or less for a basic field.
And horses are herd animals, they need other equine company. I would tend to let it run on a see how it goes basis, you might regret it once they are gone.
I would say your solicitor should have checked for vacant possession but some solicitors will have years of experience of dealing with this sort of thing and have more humanity than you can think, especially if they are rural solicitors, and tend to adopt a "it isn't hurting anyone" policy.
seriously would be happy to help but i think you need to contact a solicitor who specialises in this kind of thing
link here they have a quick enquiry box you can complete
I would be charging them for the water for a start. Giving them until the end of March is more than reasonable.
Can you get something I writing from the reasonable one, stating they will vacate the land?
You are totallyresonable. I think I'd just keep stressing that it is a condition of your mortgage that they cannot occupy the land( white lie) and you are not insured.
Stress how reasonable you are by giving them a generous notice period.
You are kind, but it is not up to you to protect the previous owners. They totally took advantage of your good nature. Coping or not they were massively, incredibly taking the piss to sell you a field and then casually inform you that in fact it wasn't yours! In your shoes I would be furious.
first time buy sorry!
This also reminds me of when I was a child, I somehow acquired a pony that no-one else wanted, and a very nice helpful old lady let me keep him for nothing with her elderly pony. The old lady got ill and I kept looking after both ponies before and after school. She died, the house was sold and the new owners kicked us out. But they had her old pony put to sleep. It was horrible as it was healthy, just old.
What got me is that they then bought horses themselves which they then proceeded to look after very poorly!
Lessmis, we are in the UK, but a cheap area and the state of the place got us a complete bargain. We are very lucky.
As for grazing and maintenance I have someone who will graze the land (sheep) in return for keeping my fences going. It really needs sorting out properly.
I understand what you're saying about the joy of animals without the ownership, and I had horses as a teen, but I have that already elsewhere and it's not what I want from the field. I want somewhere to walk my dog (the horses go for him) I want somewhere to camp (again not suitable) but most of all I want somewhere the dcs can run around.
As for condemning him to death, that's not fair.
Do not enter any arrangement for rent from these people. It could inadvertently create an agricultural tenancy.
If a field is £50 a month in rural areas, they should take the horses and keep them in a field where someone wants them and pay the £50 a month, not impose on the kindness of OP any longer who wants to use her own land with small children and pup (who it seems clear don't mix well with stallion!)
complete pushover are you in Wales ?
They park on your drive cheeky bastards. For that alone YANBU!
Stiff that was a concern too.
Nigella... Might be!
30 is probably too old to consider gelding safely, but it is not your problem. It may well have amazing bloodlines, but at that age, it wouldn't be normal to consider breeding from it...there are exceptions but these are usually kept in appropriate conditions by responsible breeders, not squatting in random fields and "looked after" by freeloaders.
You have no agreement with the people who have been "gifted" (is there an emoticon for disgusted puke?) this problem. If they refuse to take responsibility to arrange appropriate care for the animal, contact one of the many rescue organisations (ILPH, Blue Cross, RSPCA), or if you know the breeding the relevant breed society, and advise that you cannot have the horse on your land, its age and the fact that it is a stallion, and that you will consider having it humanely destroyed if no alternative is found.
At 30 years old, this poor horse deserves a decent end if it is unable to be rehomed satisfactorily, and I would be very surprised if it's feet, teeth and worming are being taken care of adequately, given that it appears to have been acquired for free. It may have health issues (Cushings disease, arthritis) that are not necessarily being managed properly, and as a non horse owner, you are not likely to be aware of additional needs that a rescue organisation could immediately identify. If this horse truly has "amazing bloodlines", a well placed call to the relevant breed society is likely to garner a huge amount of interest and a suitable home will swiftly follow. Stay strong and keep the bigger picture in your vision at all times.
Whonicked, I knew including that in the op would pay off
ha ha i guessed as much <waves>
LessMiss, are you kidding? I grew up around horses but neither of my parents would have dreamed of leaving us without very close supervision in a field with any horse as toddlers, let alone an unbroken, flighty stallion. Ditto a puppy. Which is fine if they're your own horses but the OP isn't getting enjoyment of her field because of animals that aren't hers, and that she didn't agree to have there.
Instead, she's paying to water them, has no control over who else is on her property, has some tricky insurance issues, has visitors who can't be bothered introducing themselves, and it's not helping her mental health.
I'm struggling to see exactly how the dubious benefits outweigh those negatives.
But OP if your field has sheep in it, you won't be able to walk your dog in it. And I would watch your DCs around sheep - sheep can give you a nasty kick.
But yes, I think you have to face up to the fact that the 30 year old horse would most likely have to be pts. I think moving an entire horse of that age would be so traumatic and difficult that it would be near on impossible to do. Finding fields for horses isn't easy. And the one you have clearly has a field shelter in it - they cost around £2500 to erect. Keeping a horse out all year in a field with a field shelter is a lot different to a field with no field shelter, which might be a welfare issue.
Thanks again t3, I hadn't considered horse protection people, that's a very good idea. I could get in touch and try to arrange something myself if need be. I'll also ring all my contacts, I may be able to find a gelding in need of company.
I agree that you should avoid entering into ANY kind of arrangement with these folks which might lend any element of formality to the deal. You are in no way being unreasonable. Stick to your guns.
However, please - enough of the "I'm this... I'm that" stuff please. Message understood from the very first post!
YAsooooNBU, not your responsibility at all.
I think end of feb is fair. More than enough time to put down the stallion & restable their horse. If also be presenting them with a water bill and saying that you'll e seeking legal redress for the cost they've incurred for you as they didn't tell you they were using their water supply.
I don't think it's a lovely story I think it's been very convenient for them. I'd have insisted they were gone when I moved in as I wouldn't want the hassle of getting rid once I'd moved in (like you're doing now!)
It's not your fault if a horse gets put down. It's the old owners.
Don't get me started on the "no planning permission permanent structure" that is the field shelter.
Don't worry about sheep. I know sheep literally inside and out (that sounds wrong).
YANBU at all
If I were you I'd get this sorted out as soon as possible, I can imagine letting them stay turning into a total nightmare for you
If things stay amicable then march sounds reasonable but if they start causing problems I'd get them to leave sooner
Whatever happens to the horses is nothing to do with you, you sound lovely to be concerned but the possibility of having to leave should have occurred to the horse owners before now and they are very irresponsible to build their plans around someone else's good will
oh fgs sheep do not 'give a nasty kick' they run away bleating.
Uncle T, I was about to apologise for the "I'm this" and then I thought... "Sod you!" <grows a pretend back bone>
I don't think the end of February is fair actually, because its still the middle of the winter.
I think its actually quite heart warming that a group of local people banded together to look after an old, unwanted horse that they couldn't ride and give him a nice life, when they didn't really get much out of it themselves. And you can't blame them if the previous owners let them.
Didn't you visit the property before you bought it OP and notice both the horses and field shelter?
So you brought a property with a field. For 18 months someone else has been using your field. They have parked on your drive?
You have been very generous. If your plans for using your property interfere with their use of your property, for which they have no lease or contract? Have they offered yo buy it from you? Rent it from you? You didn't own and neglect a horse.
Nigella's Dealer I can assure that of course sheep can give you a nasty bloody kick if you try to handle them. They're not cuddly bunny rabbits!
Why might you try to handle a sheep, I suppose you might ask? Indeed.
I think giving notice in writing is something you should be doing ASAP.
no i wouldn't ask that having had a herd of sheep in a half nelson one by one to inject them, as well as helping with lambing. so i do know they are not 'cuddly bunny rabbits'.
I've been kicked by sheep, I've been kicked by horses.
They're very different.
And no offer of rent or buying the land.
Well Nigella's Dealer you must be the only sheep handler/farmer who's never been kicked by a sheep!
Could you not have a meeting with all the people involved and see how the land lies, as it were?
But again, why did you not notice the horses and the field shelter when you viewed the property? Was it an auction purchase?
ahh thats cos they luffs me
Average sheep weight 55kg. Average horse weight 550kg. Massive difference in force behind average kick. From experience.......
I have plenty of good scars from sheep, so does anyone who has worked with them.
ahh thats cos they luffs me
Ah well then. If your sheep know you, that's different. Cute.
Sheep have a sharp kick though, honestly they can give you a sore one!
Sorry yes, at initial viewing we were told horses would be vacating. Two weeks before purchase we were informed they were staying.
Owners had SN and were under SS care. I will not penalise them for whatever mess they've left behind.
oh ok i admit i have only worked with them a few times but i was just annoyed at being patronised as though i was some ignorant townie.
nonetheless getting back to OP's problem.......
That is all I have to add.
I do like sheep though.....they are cute....I would love my own small flock...
can we start a sheep thread?
Nigella, that's ok, I've got 30 years' experience of them
I'm finding it amusing that a sheep must be considered a danger to children and dogs, yet a unbroken great socking big stallion is a pet to be adored by all...
I would worry about the horse being put down, but angry that you're being put in that position of blame to start with.
Damnit, how has this thread deteriorated into a "in a fight between a horse and a sheep, who would win?" Thread?
DoubleLife that's pretty much how I feel
No contest. The goat would win
No contest. The goat would win
See, I'd quite like goats but they're too sneaky.
Lessmiss, so it's ok to sunbathe in a field with loose horses but sheep are too dangerous? And why couldn't OP walk her dog in the field with sheep? Not all dogs chase sheep, just poorly trained ones.
Anyway you don't know the horse and whether it will be 'condemned to death'. We have a 30 year old pony and though we'd be careful about where we moved her to, we would move her rather than PTS as she is still healthy. We have moved older than that before and all has been fine as long as their friends move with them.
I think you are expecting too much of CompletePushover. Fair enough the people did a good thing taking on the old horse, but they have also brought in another one of their own and expected everything free for it. The decent thing would have been to come to OP and explain the circumstances of how they got the stallion but say that they fully expected to pay for the other horse. Given that OP is obviously a fair person she might have accepted that (maybe on proviso they fenced off field so she could still use part of it safely). But no, they had to push their luck so I don't blame her for getting rid.
But if it was 3 large stallions against 2 goats (one armed with a flick knife) who would win?
Maybe it's a disguised "sheep and goats" conundrum! After, all, goats and horses are both ungulates, innit? And don't they both have those disturbing rectangular pupils?
Pushover, get a solicitor and evict, in writing.
Renter now that would be terrifying. Bloody ungulates coming over ere, taking our pastures.
not sure CP my money would be on the goats esp. if the stallions were as decrepit as the one in your field.....
Nigella, the stallions are all under 20, but the goats are of a size that means they are stackable if that's any help
I've got a jacob ram that takes on tractors, land rovers, cows, dogs,geese and has sent many a person down to the local cottage hospital, he's called Billy whizz and is the reason why none of my vehicles will ever have decent resale value.
The last person I sold him to, brought him back six hours later.
I've been kicked by sheep, kicked, charged and knocked down by cattle, and kicked by horse. polishes farm girl badge.
There's a very clear hierarchy of what I'd take as a repeat experience! (BTW: never be between a cow and her unweaned calf that is objecting to a vaccination, even if the cow is 'safely' in the yards. Top tip.)
A horse is a fair bit faster and less predictable than your average sheep, too.
D'you suppose undulating is a horse dressage move, a bit like that little shimmy they do? A pity the "Sun" didn't try that sort of Undulating Ungulates headline, during the Olympics!
Goats can climb stairs. There is no escaping them. My money is on goats
is sitting on her hands not to make jokes about sheep kicking if you aren't gentle
YADNBU OP. They've got plenty of warning.
If you were in Jersey i would think it was my exsil doing that as its somehting she would do
A 30 year old stallion is a different proposition to a 30 year old gelding or mare. I don't know one of my many fellow livery yard owners who would accept a stallion. We certainly wouldn't, however that is absolutely not the op's problem.
We had a herd of Jacobs when I were a lass. But their feet weren't hardy enough.
Now the most dangerous animal I ever met was a bronze turkey. As soon as you turned your back on him he'd fly at the back of your head. It was impressive.
three stackable goats armed with a flick knife? where is talcandturnips with her emoti-art when we need her?
Complete, sorry, and I introduced cows to the mix.
Lots of fantastic advice from other horse owners.
End of March is good because the grass will start coming in and make it easier to get grazing elsewhere.
30 years old is too old for a stallion to be gelded.
They are taking the piss by not paying market rate for having the field, whatever the circumstances of how they got that horse, and are getting free grazing for both and costing you money.
You also have no privacy.
Tbh, I'd put it in writing that they must vacate by 31st March as you have got contractors coming in in April and every time somebody turns up to do the horses, ask them what they are doing to find alternative grazing.
Glaik! They can climb stairs?! They're scarier than (old style) Daleks!
Joys that is good and sensible advice, we have told them we're plowing it in April.
Jassy, cows are more than welcome, I know them too (kicked and butted). I'd choose sheep every time.
Nigella, with a cherry on top
No a livery yard wouldn't take a stallion but there is a chance they could find another field to rent just for their two horses.
See I don't object to them being on my land if I'm not using it. I do object to them objecting when I want to use my own property and I've been reasonable. I think they're looking to rehome him in local farms rather than livery.
The goats at the model farm near here have a special staircase that takes them across a bridge and down the other side of their pasture. You don't stand under the bridge, under any circumstances.
Pixel, either way they'd have to find a new field for the second horse, they'd want it to be local, so it wouldn't be far to take them both.
Glaik I could install a bridge!!!
That's what I'd be doing too if I were them. Wouldn't surprise me if they leave you with a field that needs pop picking and a shed full of rubbish so be prepared for that.
Hubby once asked my if there was any such thing as a 'normal' horsey person, I have to admit I couldn't think of anyone as we are all a nightmare when it comes to how we keep our horses!
Ah, see, I prefer cattle but that's cos a bit mad.
Not as mad as my mum who now has a small herd of goats 'to keep the grass down'.
Minions of Satan, they are.
Tell then you are getting a sty built for your new pigs!
Most horses loathe pigs
... I have considered getting pigs.
If they leave it in a state then that would just fit with the rest of it <sigh> lucky I don't mind a bit of hard work.
I haven't read the whole thread so not sure if this has already been said, but be very very careful about accepting any money off them in relation to their occupancy as it could risk creating an implied tenancy with security of tenure for the occupants.
Eviction would be a whole different (costly) ballgame then.
Actually, I'm not sure these people did a 'lovely' thing. Did they help out the rather vulnerable owners of the property or just interfere to sort out the valuable horse in the pretty free pasture? Clearly I'm a cynical old hag, but I think they have taken advantage of a sad situation and you should not feel a moments guilt about giving notice. YANBU
Meerka, geese are terrifying that's why!
Yanbu and i would have kicked them into touch along time ago. I suggest you also have some rules for making their remaining stay more tolerable. Such as where they can park, days they can use the field and who enters YOUR property. This is important as it sends out the message that you are in charge.
I also wouldn't section anything off as it would appear you are encouraging them and tbh I would tell them to leave in 6 weeks. That's enough time for the worse of winter to be nearly over ( hopefully ) and when you will want to start using your field. Cheeky Feckers.
Normal horsey people?
No such thing!
Amimagic that's good to know, no money has changed hands.
Halfwildling, the caring was initiated by lovely lady and a few well wishers, the extra horse came later and was one of the well wishers. I really like her too. I'm very disappointed with her reaction today.
But you know what they say, no good deed and all that.
YANBU, you shouldn't feel guilty, they've had a good run of it. They must have known it wouldn't last forever.
Trix, I'm not sure they do know that.
For normal horsey people read mad cat ladies. As Manchesterhistorygirl posted - No such thing!
I've just spoken to dh, he had been the one to break it to not-happy-person, (I broke it to Understanding-lady) and after she kicked off and left apparently Understsnding-lady told him he was doing the right thing and was being incredibly nice about it. I think she will be busy working as our advocate tonight.
I'm pretty sure that you cannot create a secured agricultural tenancy over land which is (a) not in writing and (b) does not permit cultivation of the land but only allows grazing.
Kicking off is not on though. Did one of them go a bit mad at you or your DH then? I'm now really curious as to what part of the world you're in. Is it Scotland?
Honestly, I don't think I could kick a 30 y o horse off my land if I bought a house with land in similar circumstances. I couldn't have it on my conscience. I'd probably just put up with it until it died and use it as a companion to my own horses. But then I'm a horse owner already.
fingers crossed it all works out.
Got mad at dh, he said if understanding-lady hadn't stepped in a few times she would have been screaming in his face.
Considering we've been doing them a favour it's horrible.
And throw in the fact that they will be parked on my drive every day and wandering around my garden to the shed.
Did I mention that I didn't know she had dogs and only found out she'd been letting them out in my garden and in the field after if walked my carefully-being-kept-away-from-all-dogs unvaccinated puppy had been walked there.
That was the final straw tbh. So far puppy is well and good and I've only found one lot of unpuppy-sized shit in my garden (next to where they park), but if he comes down with anything I will be livid and very since I've been so careful.
she sounds like a complete piss-taker tbh CP - kick em out ASAP with no feelings of guilt. (speaking as someone who also keeps a horse)
I hope the well-wishers don't just walk away from the old stallion and leave it in your field as your responsibility.
he said if understanding-lady hadn't stepped in a few times she would have been screaming in his face
Absolutely appalling. I'm guessing you might have been a bit better disposed to them OP if they weren't behaving like this and taking the mickey parking on your drive?
that crossed my mind too littlemothersucker, then CP would be responsible for the horse......
I'm still hoping it's just an initial emotive reaction this evening. I'm trying to make excuses. They didn't know I had a new puppy, but had never asked if their dogs could be over there. They might not have noticed one had shat in my garden. They do move the car when we need to get out (it blocks us in) although have never asked to park there.
It's annoying. I really liked them and thought we might be friends, and now it turns out they've just been taking what they can get from me.
Take the moral high ground CompletePushover. You are not the one taking the piss. Not-nice lady is showing her true colours - if she truly, truly cared for the horse she would have no hesitation in securing his future elsewhere - or making the decision to end it for him if necessary, which despite the cuddly brigade's objections is often far kinder than having it moved from unsuitable home to unsuitable home in its twilight years. Stallions of that age that can be safely used as companions are as rare as hens teeth, hence the reason few livery yards would consider housing them.
Let her scream and stand firm with your husband as support. It's your land and your right to enjoy it as you see fit.
Lessmiss, if they weren't so intrusive it wouldn't be so... Well, intrusive! And I would probably have accepted if they offered to fence off an area for the horses (it's a very large field) for them to stay in until the stallion died. But I'm already dreading the summer since it's becoming clear that this field is viewed as their own private park for them and their friends. Which would make sense if it was formally rented. But it isn't. It's mine <stomps foot>
They block you in? They're taking the piss. You've been far too nice. It would drive me nuts to have to ask someone to move their car on my own land.
Trix, yup. Definitely getting that mug tattoo
What happens when you are assertive with them with the parking situation? Is there nowhere else they can park?!
Do you know what less? There's a flipping layby 50 yards away where they could park I am such a doormat!
And how many of them are there?
CP I could tell you a sorry tale of how some new landowners round here got rid of their sitting tenant and her animals, it really wasn't nice, and your people are not even sitting tenants, they are piss taking trespassers.
i will not tell you the story here......suffice to say the boot is on your foot!
get yourself a blunderbuss or fowling piece.
Less, I'm suffering from severe PND at the moment and am struggling to even leave the house, let alone confront anyone. Understanding-lady came to the door and asked direct questions and was lovely.
Nigella, I may be soft and lovely but I'm a crack shot with a 12 ball
I couldn't do it though. The animals have done nothing wrong, they've just been let down by their old owners.
haha you are funny CP sorry to hear you are suffering with PND, you really do not need this added stress.
i wonder if your postcode starts with an S?
Nigella, I really really don't it's made a bad day a hell of a lot worse.
Have pm'd you
I think you have been very kind and patient and you also have lovely plans for you home and field that will possible help relieve some symptoms of your pnd.
I want to see puppy photos
I think they will too.
I would but it's so recognisable I'd be instantly outed
I'd like to say to you to tell them to park in the lay by until their time's up, but I know you won't and I'd be too much of a pushover to do that too .
Our first pony lived until 35, the next was 31. Our 30 year old is still going strong, so Complete could have a long wait for the stallion to peg out!
Seriously, please stop giving yourself a hard time with all this self-deprecation. You are not responsible for the situation and are merely trying to find a reasonable solution to allow you to enjoy your own property. Ease up.
The thing that astonishes me is the extent of the piss taking, both from the vendor and the horse people. As for their family and God knows who else using you land as their own summer playground, don't dread it - prevent it. Try the reasonable route but plan for playing hardball if required. The more you plan and seek advice, the less intimidating getting tough will seem.
Trix if they do become arsey then I'll have no choice, I'm not having someone actively treating me like shit and blocking me in every day. I'll have to grow a backbone then.
Pixel, I think this one has the glint of longevity about him. Added to the fact that the ages I've been given for him vary from 22 to 35 so he could be around another 20 years
UncleT, that is excellent and practical advice. I will be practicing my, "can I help you? Oh no, we're not insured to have you here, please leave" speech.
I am planning on putting in new fencing and making a new parking bit in the garden, which should put off parking. I really don't want to be one of those people with a "private parking only" sign up.
I'm a bit confused.
I think they definitely should take their own horse. As soon as possible. No question about that.
But why should they take the stallion? It isn't theirs and why do you think try will take in the cost and responsibility if rehousing it?
Sorry if i am missing something, but I'm sorry to say it looks like the stallion is yours.
Sounds like the sort of thing that sometimes does happen in rural areas. I've met the kicking off type of horse person and its not someone I'd choose to be around. They can be odd...
Still, at least you now have a property with land to cheer you up!
It's often the most successful strategy. Try/hope for peace, plan for war. You don't have to make insurance excuses or anything else. There's only one justification or explanation required here - this is our land. We bought it.
I don't think you can wash your hands of the stallion. You should have sorted that issue out with the previous owner before you bought.
So it might be up to you to send it to the glue factory. Grown up responsibility and all
Sharaluck, it says in the op - "Two weeks before completion the owner tells us we will be inheriting a cat and that the horses are staying (he's gifted the stallion to the other horse owner)"
The stallion is not the Ops
Well I've never bought a house but if I was going to and the owner said that, I would make sure the horse was gone BEFORE I went ahead and bought it. Sound like op was being an ostrich and very foolish to not have sort it out before buying.
I don't think op can wash her hands of it. The actual owners are long gone. I don't think op can or should expect the current horse carers to take on the cost/responsibility. Poor stallion
Does your driveway have a gate? Can you get one and lock it?
Same for your shed.
And do you have a solicitor that will draft a
do fuck off letter "as agreed you will fuck off vacate with your trespassing big cars, dogs and horses by 1 March --or else--"
And I don't see the current horse carer accepting the previous owners 'gift'. If that's what you mean. Gifts can be returned, especially if they come with many strings attached. The stallion's home is the op's field and I think op will have to sort this out herself.
If it turns out that she doesn't, then she should consider herself very lucky.
But the horse owner only got free grazing for her horse because she was 'looking after' the stallion. Shows how much she really cared about it if she dumps it as soon as the freebies dry up.
A lockable gate does sound a really good idea ...
Plus that would make her a massive hypocrite for using emotional blackmail saying it would have to be put down etc.
Um, no your field will NOT be their private park in the summer - because they will be long gone!! Yes, OP?!
It's worrying that you're thinking like that. And after hearing the situation with her shouting at your DH - fuck it, the party would be over as far as I'm concerned.
Don't take this on yourself- you're not well enough. Will your DH get tough? Date you want them out by. No parking. No dogs on your property. No trespassing of any kind. Any more of the above and you will want them off the land with immediate effect. They have until end Feb. and yes, you are both LIVID at being screamed at by someone whose horses you are effectively paying for, and you want them to know that. In spades.
I know all the arguments but I think in reality the horse carer will have trouble finding new homes for 2 horses, particularly the stallion as previous posters have said it will be hard to find a place that will accept the unbroken stallion.
So I suspect the op will be left with the stallion. That is all.
And I think the op was foolish to not have sorted this out BEFORE buying, so she is responsible. She went into the agreement with her eyes open and she has continued the arrangement for the past 18(?) months.
As I've said I've never bought a house, but what is so hard about saying to the owner, "the stallion and cat need to be completely gone before I buy."
What is so hard about saying this BEFORE the sale is finalised ?
Then everyone knows where they stand.
Op brought this on herself.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
YANBU Infact you are being infinitely more reasonable than I would have been. I would have absolutely refused to close on the house until the field and shed had been completely vacated.
I think by agreeing to allow them to remain you are potentially in a very difficult to resolve situation and you could be left with the stallion.
I hope I'm wrong for your sake as you seem like a lovely person.
Sorry to come back so late and to hark back, but I think you had the answer with geese! CompletePushover, you are the goose who lays the golden eggs, so all you have to do is threaten to get into a high position and shit one out on their heads! Gold is heavy.
Seriously, though, heavy is what you need. Get a solicitor to help you resolve this. Screaming at you/DH is so not on (especially with the PND!) that the civil action may need criminal backup (harassment charges, trespassing, etc.) as well. You may be able to raise a MN flashmob to patrol, too! We're with you!
Sharaluck the OP said earlier that the vendors were extremely old & vulnerable, so I can understand her not being kickass about it.
This has been such a fascinating thread. I have absolutely no knowledge of horses (townie).
<whispers - is it bad to have it PTS?>
My neck is sore from nodding in agreement reading TalkativeJim's post. Right on the money.
I don't buy that argument beryl. When you purchase something as important as a house you can't make allowances for "old and vulnerable vendors" and then 18 months later claim no responsibility for the mess that they left you!
Op needs to take responsibility as she didn't sort this out to begin with. As I said earlier I think the horse carers should/will take their own horse but she will be left with sorting out the stallion. And I think that responsibility is fair as she went into this with her eyes open and has continued the horse arrangements for the past 18 months. This stallion has lived in field for how long? It is clearly it's home.
Good luck with this op. You have been very kind and i hope this is resolved quickly for you. Think you are probably not that far from where i live. Theres some good advice on this thread, hope you enjoy your land with the dc and puppy very soon xx
Even if the stallion does stay, if the Op decides to keep it, she could fence off a piece of land and take care of it. But then she wouldn't have to worry about people parking in her drive, and dogs, and whatever else.
Thanks everyone, shara, the second horse was brought into the land 18 months ago, we've been there 3 months (sorry for the confusion).
The house was a bargain due to its state, the owners had severe difficulties and we were not in a state to have the most straightforward of demands made of them. As it was it took a long time to complete and I had a newborn moving in. It's been a busy time. But no matter what the purchase, I will always make allowances for vulnerable people. If I lose something then so be it. It's the right thing to do.
The horse owner very much sees the stallion as hers, if it was left to us that would not be what was best for the horse and I don't think that will happen. If it does we will deal with it. I may even have a couple of options if it came to that, but I'm not offering them to the owners. At least if I was left with only the stallion I would have control back.
It's probably very alien to lots of people all of this this isn't a "horsey" area, this is a farmy area where lots of people have horses. There is a subtle difference.
I don't want to be taken advantage of, but I think that's something that hasn't happened deliberately.
Aderynlas, you could well be right.
Sadly it's not as easy as 'fencing off a piece of land'. Old horses need a lot of care. There's teeth rasping twice a year, feet to be trimmed, plenty of food that's easily digestible to keep weight on or strip grazing to keep weight off depending on horse!, worming, maybe rugs depending on breed/condition, maybe it needs medication for cushings (which many old horses have), maybe it needs painkillers (bute) for arthritis. The field and shelter will have to be kept clean to prevent associated health problems (a never-ending task). Not to mention the fact that if the other horse goes the stallion will be very unhappy on its own.
Sorry that was to GatoradeMeBitch.
That's a good summary for me to keep in mind pixel
Good luck op.
Hopefully they all leave without a fuss, but I doubt this will happen somehow. Lesson learned for all future home-buyers, sort out all unusual "arrangements" before finalising the purchase.
All the best op, you need to put your own health and happiness first now. These people are lucky that you have been so tolerant for so long.
NigellasDealer - surely it would be a sheep floss?
Print off a list of stables, fields & farms nearby with a letter from youe solicitor. The first half an hour is free so it is worth getting legal advice.
My goodness, YANBU at all! You have been beyond fair and accommodating, and it should have been down to the previous owner to deal with all of this before he moved out.
I don't know how big the field is but if it's large enough you could consider sectioning part of it off and renting it to them, or if you'd prefer not to them just stick to your guns. Either way they are being very U indeed to expect you to continue the arrangement for nothing.
You are really NBU here they are. Theyve had a good run of luck being able to keep their horses for free but what happens to them is not your problem. If the horse has to be pts well thats not the worst thing that could happen to it
Your land, your rules. If you want them off, just tell them to get out. I'm guessing there's nothing in writing, you've been more than fair. It doesn't matter if you want to use it or not. It's YOURS.
We will put it in writing. Would an email be good enough? I only have an email address for them and given that I'm not sure how calm things will be from here on in, I don't know if I am up to handing it to her. Dh isn't usually back from work in time.
I'm still feeling guilty, but I know I shouldn't. I've inherited something that was a good deed to the old owners, but is now my good deed that is ruining my enjoyment of my property.
I do know for certain that if I could get outside every day and have a wander my mh would be so much better
Your solicitor can advise you on how to "serve" the letters correctly.
OP: Do not feel guilty if the horse gets put down.
All the real horsey people I know don't think twice about having a horse put down, though I know one who had a horse cremated, at great expense and ended up with an enormous box of ashes that took them two years to sprinkle round their land.
You and your health are far more important than the horse and the piss taking do gooders.
They are the sort of people who would find another rescue horse for your field if the stallion died.
They have given themselves a hobby at your expense.
There is only one person on here that disagrees with getting rid of it, maybe she would like to rehome him.
You are right that being outside will improve your MH.
Best wishes to you and your family.
Enjoy your outdoor life.
paxtecum that's really fucking insensitive!
I've just had my old boy PTS in the past month, he was in his early 30's, and was a rescue pony costing a fuck of a lot of money to keep comfortable when I could have saved loads of money by having him shot. It is also fucking hard for me and the mare he was companion to, and because her companion had gone I've had to move her to somewhere she does have company. I also still have all the boxes of ashes from our cremated cats because somehow we can't seem to bury or scatter them.
There are people who have horses purely for sport and have no issue with selling or shooting them if they aren't suitable anymore, but the majority of us love horses, and keep them as pets we can also ride but will be responsible for them because we love who they are, rather what they can do for us.
Joysmum, I agree with what you're saying, I think paxt's point is that there are plenty of people who wouldn't feel guilty in that situation, and that I should put myself first.
I wouldn't be happy with having a healthy animal PTS, that doesn't sit well with me. But nor am I happy with having the choice of endangering the dcs or not using my own land.
I do wonder at what point those caring for the stallion would consider him too expensive. I think they've been controlling arthritis and laminitis through diet. At some point he will get ill. Will they pay to treat him? I don't know. Under those circumstances I think it would be best to have him PTS.
They will find it hard to rehome a stallion but there are a few homes for old horses available. Its up to them if they want to do that.
2.5 months is fine, they can rent another field or loan out the other as a companion pony.
Just stick to your guns, be pleasant and ask what they will be doing with the shelter and cleaning up when they leave. That bears a cost too, for you if they just leave it all.
You probably should give them a formal letter- email them and give it over to them. Your solicitor should advise. Just say your dh and solicitor who handled the property sale say you should.
They are being very unreasonable tbh. I expect they can't afford to carry on but they must have known this would happen when you moved in, just a matter of time. Don't be drawn into problem solving, just be nice and firm.
Thanks Lavender. That's the thing, they must have known. The second horse was bought after the owners told them they were selling up. I understand that they wanted company for the stallion, but they must have had a plan for their own horse at the very least. I hope that is the case and that they weren't just hoping for the best and buying a horse without the means to support it independently.
I am a horse owner. A couple of months notice is fine and fair. It gives them time to seek out livery options locally and make arrangements for the stallion as they need to. He will be hard to place because a lot of liveries won't take stallions, and he is a bit old to move. But that is for them to sort out, they were very lucky to get a free field for so long, and had plenty of time to think about options, which they needed to do as soon as the place came up for sale. I guess you provide water as well... They'd have been out a lot more quickly if you had been a horse owner yourself, and wanted the field for yours!
Be prepared for them to take things they have put into the field, such as the shelter, but I'd be inclined to just let them get on with it. I'm not sure I'd carry on allowing parking in my driveway though, surely they can park in the road? If you get any aggro then tell them that unless it stops you will reduce the notice period.
Peeking, that's good advice. I'm expecting them to take the shelter. I've been a bit concerned about it anyway since there's been no planning permission for it. They also have a shed in the field that is theirs, but they had said they'd gifted that to someone else the first week we were here, but it still hasn't gone.
If it does become unpleasant I'm not subjecting me and the dcs to that, and I will have to insist they move sooner and potentially call in an animal rescue group. Either way I want to check out if the charities can help at all.
Contact BHS, Redwing Horse Sanctuary and World Horse Welfare for advice. I think due to the age of the stallion there is a good chance they may abandon him in your field. If that happens, his welfare becomes your responsibility as the landowner. I imagine due to his age and circumstances that he doesnt have a passport and the "gifting" didn't involve an paperwork. However it would still be a good idea to try and get the names and addresses of the people using your field if any civil action is required. Sadly, horse rescues are bursting at the seams at the moment.
Thanks perihelion. Unfortunately I think you could be right. I've got a feeling it'll go something like this
"We've tried everywhere and nobody will take him. So we'll have to leave him with you. I'm sure you don't want the work, so we'll kindly keep looking after him, and he'll need company, so since he's here we may as well keep 2nd horse here too."
I need to have something sorted if that is the case.
CP, I'm pleased that you seem to have strengthened from your first post - I think it always helps when the overwhelming majority of replies are reassuring you that you are not the one being unreasonable.
Bear in mind when you are checking out the charities that many of them say they are overstretched as a result of the economic climate and they may be unwilling to help, particularly as you are already accommodating the horse, albeit reluctantly, and that it isn't being neglected or in any danger.
I mentioned in an earlier post that it could be worthwhile contacting the relevant breed society - I am a member of a breed society where it is quite common for the jungle drums to sound in situations such as yours, or if a "known" horse suddenly turns up for sale in less than perfect circumstances, and within days somebody will at the very least have offered a foster home until a suitable home comes along. I really do think that this might be a more productive route - if not for you personally to take on, then suggest quite forcefully to your piss-takers that this is an option they should pursue - after all, if he does have amazing bloodlines, a stud may well be keen to have him.
Don't let them guilt trip you with the PTS option. I also balk at the idea of putting a healthy animal to sleep, but under the circumstances you describe, this is not a typical situation. What you are dealing with is not a bog standard horse - it is an entire male, with all his testosterone coursing through his body, who is ageing with health issues....(having laminitis managed at his age is probably a good indicator of Cushings disease). He will be difficult, if not impossible to re-home and could end up going through the wrong hands with all the misery that entails. His previous owners abdicated their responsibilities by gifting him without ensuring his ongoing welfare, and his giftee is, quite frankly, taking the piss out of you. All things considered, PTS may well be the kindest option for him. All you need to know is that no vet would destroy a life without good reason.
Take care, stay strong and most of all - enjoy your land when spring comes.
"We've tried everywhere and nobody will take him. So we'll have to leave him with you. I'm sure you don't want the work, so we'll kindly keep looking after him, and he'll need company, so since he's here we may as well keep 2nd horse here too."
"That won't work for me. Here are some numbers for horse sanctuaries, here is the number for the vet to PTS. Please have all of your property removed from my field by x. Thanks "
T3, excellent advice as ever, I'm not excellent at identifying horse breeds but I'll take a guess!
After all the volunteers' efforts I would very much become the evil new owner who came in and shot their horse if it came to that. It would make the small community thing very difficult.
Itsallgoing I will practise that speech. Promise!
Right, I have emailed all the relevant societies and charities including the breed specific one. Hopefully someone will be able to help and they won't all simply reply with a "he's too old to move, you keep him"
ItsAllGoingToBeFine"That won't work for me. Here are some numbers for horse sanctuaries, here is the number for the vet to PTS. Please have all of your property removed from my field by x. Thanks smile"
This. Their horse. Their responsibility.
OP - I'd lay money that they'd try that tactic to maintain th status quo. Itsall has the right idea. I would also start locking your gate so that they can't park so that they get the message that you're serious about evicting them.
I hope you are also going to get some professional advice about this OP.
I also live in an agricultural area, where lots of people keep horses (not posh liveries though), and while there are many good horse owners there are also others I have had experience of who will try and take the piss as much as possible.
I had one threaten to contaminate my land when she had to move her horses off the field that I had just become the new owner of, and make all sorts of unpleasant accusations besides. She then moved her horses to my neighbour's field, stopped paying rent, and it got very ugly indeed.
I would recommend you consult a local solicitor - they are likely to have relevant experience and it will probably save you money and stress in the long run.
Hopefully the people you are dealing with will be a bit more reasonable - but be prepared that they may not be.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Merguez, that's really horrible I don't believe it'll go down that route, It's far more likely to drag on as a "nowhere to go" issue. You're right, I really should get some proper legal advice on this one. I know there are all sorts of difficult scenarios and that squatters' rights exist for land too. Although I'm not sure where it lies with regard to a field that is also grazed by the owner (again, not personally), since they've only been the loan grazer since stallion was gifted IYSWIM.
Yetanother, I'm going to need to put a gate in before I lock it (on the drive not the land)
Renter you've cheered me up with your enigmatic "Victoria" post
And if nothing else I do know the guy with the land next door and he warned me to be careful (not specifically with regard to the people involved, just to make sure I secure my rights), so I know he'd stick up for me with other people.
I want a hooter honking air horn
Although I would be happy with the single steel one, I'm not so fancy as to demand a double steel
I too suspect this will not be straightforward and annoying as it may be to incur further costs I would see a solicitor so you know exactly what's what as you deal with them over the coming weeks. Anyone who buys a horse to put on land they know is being sold sounds quite tricksy to me.
I would also ask them to park elsewhere and to not let their dog run free on your land.
I wouldn't feel so much as a shard of guilt about any of this as you have zero responsibility towards them or their animals
Coming, I'm a soft touch aren't i? Could I please have an mn army to picket the field? Just a small army, I'm not greedy.
Joking apart though you have a family and MH stuff going on you simply can't afford to feel guilty or let that influence your decision
Coming is right. You cannot afford to waste time or mess around with these people.
Coming, if I didn't laugh I would cry (sadly not flippant), no I don't need the guilt. The PND is both making the guilt worse, my isolation worse, and my ability to do something about it worse.
I wonder if they'd be sympathetic or take further advantage if they knew the hurt it was causing me.
Right now the sun is shining. I would really like to take a pushchair, a book, a puppy and a chair and go and sit in the middle of the field and enjoy it. But I can't.
The house doesn't really have a garden, the land is my outdoor space.
The latter would be my guess
I would also get a letter sent from the solicitor once you have established what's what and under the circumstances maybe hand over over dealings to them if there is even a whiff of non compliance form them
On this long thread in AIBU only one poster thinks you are and she thinks it's ok to have a mobile phone out at the cinema so doesn't count !! Seriously try and be rational you are sooooo NBU
I could lend you some bikers, they're very fond of camping on fields. Ideally once the horse has gone, though!
Coming it's been really reassuring. Both dh and I are overwhelmed by how helpful and supportive you've all been (even the dissenter! ). It's made me consider other potential costs such as vet bills etc that I hadn't even thought of.
SaveMe, they'll have to be brave and face down the horses sounds perfect. Bikers are more than welcome, I'll even offer them free water!
For the time being can you park right at the bottom of your drive so they can't pull their vehicle in off the road? That way you won't be hovering waiting for the buggers to block you in?
You could get a horn from Victoria to blast through the window when you see them too
Queen, that horn could be the solution to all my problems, I'll just honk it every time something happens that I don't like. I hadn't thought about parking across the drive. It would be very annoying for anyone wanting to visit me, but would mean they would have no choice.
yanbu- the notice you have given is entirely reasonable. if they havent sorted at the end of it, get rspca or horse rescue in to remove the animals.
Bollocks, that horn!
It was a random text message I copied and pasted by accident, all right?
come clean, you have a horn fetish, don't you?!
Thanks green, I do want to line up an emergency option.
Yes park across the drive. A pain but should pay dividends while you are waiting for the gate and car horn .
There's not anyway of hosting a community event on your field is there? You could offer to host say a fundraising car boot in May because the weather will be better and the people who have had your land rent free (because of your community spirit) will have gone by then. If the event is widely known (advertising sign going up in field perhaps) then the trespassers will have another push to get them moving and less grounds for bitching about you to the locals.
I feel a namechange coming on, now that MN knows I've got both the horn and a friend called Victoria....
Yetanother, I like that idea! We could have a big BBQ for all the neighbours as a get to meet us thing! I would actually love to do that anyway.
yetanother, that's an excellent idea: legal, fair, community-minded, and assertive.
Renter, it does make you extremely recognisable
No-one can see my horns. I'm a closet goat.
Oh my god is this you?!
Shit. Look, it was an off day, and the Slitheen suit wasn't working, okay?
It's a good look, it works, it's very... Rural
<mumbles> find out where Angry Woman is living and take the horse to hers and picket it on the front lawn
Or perhaps an agricultural show? Best goat, Most placid sheep etc
wrt to serving notice.
agree, ask the solicitor.
another thought. they park their car on your drive? take their plate numbers, that might help finding a servable adress.
also can you get a parking bollard with lock installed (relatively cheap in dyi stores)?
OP, YANBU at all to want these people off your land. As a multiple horse owner (including multiple stallions)who has been in their position several times over the last few years I amazed at how they have taken the piss. We paid rent on land/small yard for over a year without ever using it because the main land we rented was up for sale, I knew that I would be able to find livery for the bulk, although at great cost for so many, but that I would need somewhere self contained for the stallions when the time came to move. I also have the benefit of a free field thanks to an amazing friend coming to our rescue, I would never take advantage of this and am grateful to her every day for the blessing she has given us. If she asked us to leave we would make other arrangements without bitterness.
If they cause you problems between now and the notice date (which is a very reasonable amount of time imo) then bring it forward. They have no rights to stay and you don't need a solicitor. If they don't move by the given date tell them that the horses will be tied to the gate the following day and the gate locked. If they leave the stallion get in the vet and have it PTS, there are worse things that could happen to it! How dare they think they have the right to abuse your goodwill in this way.
Please be careful with your puppy if you walk in the field whilst the horses are there, I have seen my own roll a dog and stamp on it and one picked up by it's back and thrown. As a horse owner for many years I was traumatised by just how dangerous/nasty they can be around dogs if they don't like them, and these are ones I trust with my kids! Good luck in your new home, enjoy it and enjoy the space and freedom to move about your own land.
Tiredout is right, there are worse things than being PTS for a horse. Done by a competent person it is very quick and the horse knows nothing about it. So if they do try to use that as an argument for letting them stay, please bear it in mind.
Completepushover, I've sat and read your thread and all the comments.
With hindsight the advice to take vacant possession was how it should've been, but it's obvious that you were trying to be accommodating and kind to people who in turn, had been helping someone else's sorry situation. It's just a shame that this is biting you on the bum.
I hope you get a satisfactory resolution without too much more aggro, but do keep at the front of your mind that this is not a situation of your making and no one can blame you in any way for wanting use of your own land, free from arrangements which you didn't grant in the first place.
You've gone out of your way to help, so don't let anyone tell you that this isn't enough.
As an aside the talk of horns and 'best goat' in the show raised a daft looking on my face.
Just how does one choose a 'best goat'?
I would start to make things difficult for them. First stop them parking on your drive - especially as there is parking nearby.
Turn off the water to the field so they have to transport it.
Padlock YOUR shed where they are keeping stuff.
You may find they suddenly find somewhere for the horses to go!
Rabbitgive a Nash kick with their back legs you know, they are not cuddly hamsters you know ;)
My hamster took a chunk out of someone's thumb.
They're not cuddly pet rocks you know.
I'm absolutely staggered at the absolute cheek of this. Maybe they did start off with the best of intentions but WTF!
They are getting a free field for their horse, they commandeer your drive, they are using your outbuildings, letting their dogs run loose round your property and shit on your drive! The piece de resistance is using your metred water and she had the nerve to scream at your DH when he gave them notice! Speechless!
I wouldn't wait until the end of March, I think you are being far too generous. Until then as other PP's have suggested ban them from your property and from using your water, just allow them into the field only!
When I married dh he came complete with farm and mad horsey people. I can well believe the way these ones are behaving, and you may find that they've been chucked off previous yards etc. Suffice to say when we moved I said we were never having liveries in any shape or form again and we have pretty much kept to that. I'd get home from work and find them sitting in my garden watching their dogs dig up my newly planted garden etc. obviously dh should have sorted them all out at the beginning, but he didn't and it became quite a nightmare.
A note of caution re the stallion (though Tiredoutgran has really said it all), it really is not safe to have one around dogs or children. Our ex stallion (gelded late) was in a field with my ds's calves when he kicked one and broke its leg. He's never lost that bit of attitude despite having a lovely nature with people, and I certainly would be worried about him with a puppy.
You're doing the right thing; you've given them plenty of notice and my bet is they're known around the village for being difficult. The idea of offering the field for a summer function is inspired, you will meet the locals and get them on-side.
I'd be tempted to section off the field but only leave them a tiny bit round their shelter. When they have to start spending a fortune on hay they might think differently!
I can only assume that goats are judged on their stackability and proficiency with a flickknife, nothing else makes sense.
You are all lovely and I am feeling much better. I've spent the day in my tiny garden clearing it of blackthorn, so I'm covered in cuts, but at least I've been outside. No sign of horse people today.
I do worry about the puppy, I've been carrying her through the horses and then putting her down once they finally stop following me. Which is a pain and means I can't go on my own with the baby.
I've had a reply from someone I emailed saying they can't help with taking horses but i could apply for an abandonment thingy at any point which would mean that 2 weeks later I would own the horses and could do what I want with them (unless they are moved). So that's really good to know. She also thought I was reasonable.
I am the most reasonable person in the world (I must be if both mn and most horsey people think I am!)
CompletePushoever, are you in the UK?
Do the horses have passports and whose name are they in?
Are the horses insured? They should ideally be insured for 3rd party liability at the very least. Who maintains the fending? You may find yourself liable if they escape and do damage, even if they are not yours.
Brit, yup in UK. This does concern me. It also concerns me that anyone hurting themself in my field is not covered by my insurance and could sue me.
There are so many ways this could cost me.
No passports as far as I know. Not got a clue. I have no paperwork whatsoever.
Is there an age limit where animals would not require passports? Or would a 30 yr old horse need one? Hadn't even considered that tbh.
All horses in the UK need to have a passport. The passport should always be with the horse, as far as is practical (although I keep mine safely in the house and not in my tack room, bringing them out when the vet visits) and must be held in any vehicle transporting the horse for the duration of the journey.
If the horse has not been passported, which is entirely possible due to his age (compulsory passports were introduced around 2003 ish, although most breed societies had introduced them much earlier), then he cannot legally be given certain common veterinary prescribed medications although in practise, most vets would treat a sick horse for compassionate reasons regardless of existence of a passport.
DEFRA is the organisation that has ultimate responsibility for enforcing passport ownership - you could call your local office and outline the circumstances of the horse being there. You will not be liable as it is the owner who is legally obliged to passport the animal. Could be that the hassle of DEFRA toddling about looking for a passport might persuade horse owner to remove it.
T3, thanks for the information. I very much doubt it has a passport. Could this be used as another reason not to move him? Since he cannot be moved without one (I'm assuming due to foot and mouth etc.)
Horse passports are mainly there to stop vet medicines like bute entering the human food chain.
I don't think there's an exemption for horses based on age - I think there's an exemption from microchipping if they're over a certain age.
Poor you, this just gets more and more complicated, doesn't it? I'm sure there must be a passport for at least the second horse - unless the vet who looks after them has also been breaking the rules too. I'm assuming they've had vet treatment at some point?
This could get complicated but at the moment it isn't. You give them notice to go. If they don't then you put the abandonment notice on the gate and come back to us for more advice. Or better still, join the Horse and Hound forum and post in the Tack Room there for advice. There are plenty who have been through similar situations on that group.
Personally I wouldn't give passports, pts, rescues etc a moment's thought. Just give them formal notice to go tell them that they do not have your permission to park on your property.
I am concerned that you are going into the field with your children and puppy and having to fend horses off. This is not a safe situation, with a stallion or any horse. If you are not used to horses it is easy to misinterpret their signals, and they can spin and kick out in an instant.
Do they use electric fencing at all to divide the field? I would be telling them to split the field immediately so that you have an easily accessible area that you can go in and enjoy, with the horses on the other side of the fence. (Make sure you don't feed the horses by the way - ever). It's not safe for you to be in there with your children at the moment, really it isn't.
My brother is in a very loosely similar position and I would recommend getting a solicitor to ensure you serve notice to them correctly. My bro had to put signs up around the yard for example as well as giving them a letter. You want to be sure you can go to the next step (and know what that is) if they don't leave, or leave the stallion behind.
TBH, I wouldn't blame you at all for PTS the stallion if they didn't take it. You didn't ask for a horse and if rehoming options are exhaused then sadly you don't have too many options.
Wishing you all the best and I hope they leave peacefully.
Well no good deed goes unpunished.
You have been amazingly nice OP. Depression is awful and you need your OH to sort this out for you asap. Don't get involved and speak to these 'ladies' and let them upset you. I personally think you have given them far too much time to get moved out. 4 weeks max would have been enough. Bring the date forward if you have to. Its certainly not impossible to find livery for a stallion. With more and more competition horses being kept entire, yards often now do have facilities for them. At a price. The last few yards I have been on have all taken stallions. What these people are really objecting to is the inconvenience and cost. If they want to they will find a suitable yard. It may be 40 minutes drive and cost £300 a month but if they want it they will find it.
I agree re putting a bollard up or something so they can't get onto your drive and park there. Give them notice that in 1 weeks time the water will be turned off. Don't allow them to bring their dogs on the yard. I wouldn't worry about your puppy as long as the dogs are healthy and vaccinated, but that's not the point - your home your rules and why should you put up with a strange dog running in your garden pooing. To be honest I would also ask them to fence off the majority of the field and keep the horses in a smaller area until they are moved out. That would allow you to have enjoyment of your land until they are gone. Hopefully if you make life uncomfortable with the lack of parking, no dogs, having to heft their own water and fence off the field, they will be gone sooner rather than later.
I think your OH does need to start to come across as quite hard to get rid of them. Otherwise as you say, when the date comes, they will just say they are abandoning the horses and leave them there calling your bluff. Make sure you have the name and number of the local vet/huntsman so OH can say with certainty that if the horses are not moved, an appointment will be booked with x on y date and the cost will be z and you will bill them once the procedure is done. Also you will notify the authorities that the horses have been abandoned on your land. I also agree with the earlier posted that said to join the horse and hound forum and get advice there. There are lots of very helpful people with a wealth of information there that may be able to help.
Unfortunately no matter what you do you will be seen as a villain by some in the community. Hopefully people will judge you and your OH by your merits, not the stories that may be made up about you. You seem so lovely and its awful that your good nature has been abused in this way.
I haven't read all 297 messages, I just hope that they don't decide to pull up the fences and remove the shelter i.e. don't want to leave the, 'improvements' behind.
Actually it sort of is your business whether these horses are passported or not. ALL equines in the UK MUST have a passport. It is illegal to transport them to a new home without one. The passports also have a section for vaccinations. No reputable transport company will move them without passports. No reputable yard owner will accept them without proof that their vaccinations are up to date. They may use this as an argument for not leaving, saying that the transporter refused them, oh well they will have to stay...
I still think that the passport issue is the problem of these people who own the horses. They probably have them anyway, as the horses seem to be cared for properly and they would need passports when they do vaccinations. If they say "We can't move them, they don't have passports" the answer is "Oh dear, well you had months to sort that out. So if they can't be moved you will have to have them pts".
I've never been asked to show my horses passports when I've moved them to be honest. But I always have to show them when using a pro transporter.
More useful info, I've just read it all to dh and he says he'll deal with it from here on in.
You're very right about the children and the dog. I am experienced with cattle and horses (although on the ground not on their backs) and have been the one fending them off whilst the others slip through behind me, but I'm fully aware that this isn't enough and in all honesty, after that first time with the dcs I haven't taken them over again and the second time it was just me and the dog (who I carried past them).
The dcs are under strict instructions not to feed them, but I know everyone else who visits hand feeds carrots etc. so the horses are pushier. Not one of the volunteers has young children and despite being warned that the stallion can be flighty they seem to see him as harmless. That said the horses are nice horses. The new one is young which is annoying too.
I don't know if there have been any formal vet visits or if it's all been layman diagnoses and dietary change. I can't imagine the previous owners sorting a passport.
Dh is also very nice. He hates having to be firm with anyone , but I know he's worried about me and will put me first. We've decided that any more agro will mean we have to reduce the notice to 4 weeks. We want to demand that for the next 2 1/2 months they put up an electric fence so that we can use most of our land. But we don't want to make things more unpleasant for ourselves either.
I still haven't decided if this is a case of someone consciously taking advantage, or simply carrying on with their previous actions ( from before we moved in) oblivious to the fact that they are imposing upon us. I really hope it's the latter. Like I said before, I really liked them all. But with hindsight every time I've invited them in for a cuppa I've been fobbed off. So although they've said they'd love to ( and yes I am sad and lonely) perhaps it's the land they like and not me anyway.
How's that for some fine Sunday morning self pity?
Stuff them. If they don't want your tea and company there will loads more that do
Sharing a virtual biscuit with you right now
Sorry for the whinge
Hey, we all need a bit of self pitying every now and then. It's why McVities hobnobs / custard creams / jammy dodgers (delete as appropriate) were invented
Honestly op you have been lovely about this and deserve your tea and sunday morning whinge. Hope you get this sorted soon xxx
Nom nom nom
Now go eat a few
stuff yourself silly and say "f*ck it, it's a new day, a new year, it's my land and I'm going to have a good time on it"
Aderyn you are very lovely
Toad, I shall gorge myself immediately.
I'm going to do more on my own tiny garden today so at least I'll be outside and active. It helps a lot.
I hope it gets sorted quickly, with minimum fuss and bad feeling, you have been more than generous. Unfortunately there are always people who will take the piss
Helen, the one thing I can guarantee is I won't learn my lesson the support here has been overwhelming.
OP, just to say that the field shelter doesn't need planning as they are not permanent structures.. So that's one less thing for you to worry about.
Thanks den, I hope that's the case. It's a substantial structure, not just a lean-to and one of the neighbours mentioned she'd looked into getting one but needed planning.
Either way I guess the worst planning can do is make me take it down
You seem lovely CP, and you are very entitled to have a whinge. I really hope that you get this sorted quickly and as amicably as possible, and fwiw, I'm very like you but I'd far rather be me and feel taken advantage of occasionally than be a bastard who takes advantage of others.
Have you given notice yet, though?
Have a lovely Sunday (the sun is shining where we are and rest up for the week ahead!
T3, this is my view. I'd rather be nice and taken advantage of, than be a git and not like myself.
Renter, verbal notice given. Written will be handed over on Monday. I'll see if I can get to see a solicitor for free and if they think my letter needs tweaking I shall get them to send another
I was most worried about not having a contract with them, but actually it seems that might be my saving grace.
OP, you don't have a contract or any obligation to them. You could demand that they leave this afternoon. You are being too nice! Good luck.
Agree with Pink - if they'd played fair, fine, let them stay until March. But they've been rude and have taken the piss on a monumental scale. I'd also be tempted to tell them to get lost, they're trespassing. End of. Not your problem.
Actually I think the shelter probably did need permission. We have shelters for our horses but it took the field owner years to get permission. Maybe not all councils are the same (and I think there was one neighbour here who objected) but you still need to check. The ones on skids that you can tow about with a vehicle are supposed to be ok.
I agree with Pixel, it's likely that the shelter needed planning permission. In some areas you even need that for portable field shelters. But if you're not bothered about it I'd just do nothing and deal with it if ordered to take it down.
It's certainly not on skids, it's a huge solid structure and I think they've hammered posts into the ground. Which to my mind makes it a permanent structure. It cannot be moved without being dismantled.
Here's an update for you! We have checked our deeds and contract of sale. We bought the land with a big fat "vacant possession", where the previous owners needed to declare existing tenants there is a big fat "no existing tenants or anyone with any claim to the land".
The more I've been considering this the more concerned I'm becoming about the intentions. When I discussed this with understanding-lady the other day she mentioned that the owners had been hostile to their caring for the horse and told them to leave initially. It really wasn't clear if they ever changed their stance. They also said that the previous owners were never aware of the organised nature of the volunteers. This doesn't sit well with me.
Horse person came and fed the horses earlier, we were busy with visitors and I didn't realise they'd been until later. So much for hoping for an apology from them.
So they were using the land without the blessing of the previous owners either?
So they were using the land without the blessing of the previous owners either?
Initially that was certainly the case, it's complicated and i don't want to go into too many details, but the primary owner wasn't happy with them there but was very unwell and couldn't care for the animal, this person then died. The two others left behind had SN and were not able to care for the horse either. It was 6 months after their bereavement that horse number 2 turned up. I think from this point they said yes to anything.
It's a sad tale. Yes the horse needed care. But that doesn't mean that the owners' wishes should have been ignored. Particularly when in ill health.
I think you should now take the stance that you've tried being reasonable but have since learnt the liberties they have been taking not only with the land, but your garden and driveway. No more being nice, especially as she almost shouted in your DH s face! They need to leave, no ifs or buts.
And if you back down, you will NEVER get rid of them! You can't let this drag on.
I've never been involved in buying a house but I was under the impression that paperwork etc was done by solicitors. Surely the vendor's solicitor (or whoever arranged sale) would/should have known that the horses were on the property and therefore downright lied?
You must have some comeback on this if things turn ugly.
Give your solicitor a kick! Also, who legally owns the horse? Possibly you if it came with the house.
There's no livestock or tenants in my contract. It's either theirs or legally abandoned (happy to be corrected). Basically what they have sold me is not as in the contract of sale, so any costs to do with it I believe could be claimed from the sellers. I don't want to do this. But will if they turn out to be a lot.
Totally agree with SpottyDottie: these people have shown what they will do if there's any backing down.
Talk of the Big Society is all very well, but too much "voluntarism" means too much unaccountability (and lest anyone think I'm politically biased, that cuts both ways, with "volunteers" becoming "exposed"/ legally vulnerable because they weren't part of an accountable chain of management). These "volunteers" trampled over the previous owners, with no oversight and little comeback, and now even the "nice" one is on the wrong side of the law and it could be very unpleasant for them if you were pissed off enough to go in heavy, legally.
Have you seen a solicitor yet?
Ok, this thread is getting too frustrating! You bought the house and land, there's nothing in the contract of sale re horses or any other Godforsaken creatures coming with the land so they shouldn't be there, end of. Neither should you have to put up with local do-gooders coming along and abusing your property by feeding and tending to said horses. They have no right to enter your land/property. You don't even know if they actually had an agreement with the previous owner!
If I were you, I'd be going back to the solicitor I'd used to complete the sale and asking why the previous owners had not removed their livestock. Your solicitor can go back to their solicitor and pose the same question. The only problem I foresee with this is that lots of time has elapsed. Didn't you think the day you moved in that the horses shouldn't be there?! Just as if you move into a house and the previous owner has left/removed items in the contract of sale, you should be entitled to financial recompense. Can you sue the previous owner for the cost of the use of the land, water bills, removal of the horse(s)?
sorry nothing useful to say but interested in how things turn out....I can supply some virtual backbone and hugs if it comes to that though.
Renter it's Sunday! Sundays are for lounging and not solicitors. I think it's a law, but I can't double check that, due to no solicitors being available (because of the law about solicitors not working on Sundays).
Icebeing, I'm strapping on my virtual backbone right now. I can feel my resolve strengthening.
Wibbly, I know it's frustrating. We knew this place would never be as straightforward as it should be. In my defence we were originally told the horses would be gone. Two weeks before completion (5 months of very slow conveyancing) we came by to measure up, and the owner (with SN) told us the horses would be staying and with desperation on his face added "and that's ok, isn't it?", we said it wasn't ok, but realised at that point it was likely that the horses would still be there when we arrived.
To throw in a bit more info, we had already handed in notice for our rented place, we'd been delayed over and again by stupid things already, our youngest dd was 4 weeks old and we were desperate to get into the place and start all the hundreds of things that needed doing to the house to make it liveable (it was a wreck). So when we got here we were working 16 hour days on the house. When horse person turned up at the door they seemed very nice, told us the tale and we wanted to be nice so said they could keep the horses there over the winter. We were so busy with the house and a new baby that sorting out an eviction etc would have been too much and we also felt they'd done a good deed so it would be nice of us to let them stay a bit longer. The impression we got was that as soon as we said "go" they would happily leave. But that's not how it's turning out.
Tell them you will be ploughing up the land on such and such a date.
the ploughing might be very effective.
farmers might be able to do it quickly and cheaply for you if you ask. then sow a lovely grass and meadow mix or you to enjoy.
so any costs to do with it I believe could be claimed from the sellers
I hate to say it but even if you ended up having the horse PTS it would cost you quite a lot for the actual deed and for removal of the body. It's some years since I had to do it but even then it came to several hundred pounds, so whatever happens you are going to be out of pocket I'm afraid.
Sorry to nag. I had forgotten it was the weekend, and that you only posted on Friday! Such a lot seems to have happened already, with the stupid person screaming at your DH, and your being organised enough to check your contract, etc...
It's your pun, Beryl; run with it!
In my experience renting to people you know can go wrong, as what you see as being nice/doing a favour, they see as entitlement.
Their reaction is really their problem. The previous owners sold the field, they have no contract with them or with you and they want to stay on rent free.
They are really taking the mick. They can't see it because they can only see that they rescued the horse. But it isn't your horse!
Write them a solicitors letter:
We are owners of the land where your horses are living.
There is/was no agreement with you over this use of our land. House and land were sold as empty.
We have very generously informally allowed you to use our field rent free over the winter to allow you time to make other arrangements.
We hereby give you notice to vacate our land by xx date.
Any animals in residence after that will be charged at xx amount per week rent, and the RSPCA will be called in to dispose of animal.
You normally have a set period in your purchase contract to check that everything is as it should be (e.g. the central heating works) and claim for any deficiencies. Its usually the first 7 or 10 days from hand over of the keys.
Why are you giving so much notice? Give them to the end of the month. Their horses are not your problem! YABU only for putting up with this!
Pixel, we'll cross that bridge
if when we come to it.
Bala, because way back when we said they could keep them there over the winter because we probably wouldn't do much with it until Easter. So gave an arbitrary, you can use it until the end of march and then we'll see. What we hadn't envisaged is how little we would be able to use it (even for a simple wander) with them there, and that they would be so imposing. When understanding lady came to the door I was on my own with the baby and had just woken up from trying to catch up on sleep (terrible night the night before). So it wasn't a planned conversation. I just thought that since we'd said the end of march in the first place we would just end it there and then there would be no surprises all round.
This was when I didn't think they would be anything but grateful for the favour done for them and understanding of our needs.
Steppe that looks perfect to me, I love the phrasing of what we have permitted not being in any way a rental.
Renter, I wouldn't say organised we needed another paper from the bundle and dh had a quick scan of the contract whilst he had it out. We were both very relieved there wasn't anything scary in it.
Oddly enough the solicitor I usually use was their conveyancer. I'm hoping if I talk to her about the ongoing problem it won't be a conflict of interests and she fully understands why it would have ended up like this with people taking advantage of the previous owners (and now muggins)
Oh did I really spell ploughing like that?!
Lessmiss, that's good to know too.
I think we're definitely going to go with ploughing in April. I love the idea of a proper meadow but I'd have to wear a cotton dress and skip through it on a warm summer's day, and that wouldn't be a pretty sight!
<hums theme to little house of the prairie> must be a gingham dress!!
Glaik, you're quite right, and I must have plaits too
Or sow with poppies and play "A Room with a View"!
Or sow with poppies and play "A Room with a View"!
I think I should plant different areas in different styles and wander through each one (in appropriate attire) depending on mood. It's the only sensible option really. Do you think I could install a field wardrobe, or would I need planning?
If its a temporary structure that can be moved I think you'd be able to get away without planning permission
Hope the notice serving and chat to lawyers goes well.
Thanks mistle I'll put it on a wheel barrow
It could be like one of those seats you get in posh country houses that can be wheeled around... That would go with the whole theme I think.
I think it would be perfect. Indeed I can feel myself becoming more and more lady of the
12 acres manor.
If you create a wildflower meadow it will not only look lovely and be a great thing for your pnd but will also be something you can involve the children in and will also help with local wildlife (bees, dormice, rare flowers etc). Natural England have some great resources on doing this. I think some places give out free seeds as well? There may be a welsh alternative. Anyhow the natural england site is here: http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/
You might even get some funding to help with it. And finally.... Can I come and help with a dormouse release when it is all sorted?! Please!!! They are so cute
Liquid that's lovely! There are lots of dormice in the area so they could be around already, just waiting for a lovely bit of meadow to take over.
I'm feeling a lot more positive and hopeful.
It's a lovely day here OP, and we're on the borders so I'm guessing it's sunny there too. It always helps to have a bit of sun when you're down. I stupidly had both my babies in the winter and I swear it made PND worse! But spring is coming.... I'm imagining snowdrops and later bluebells in your meadow.
Glad you're feeling more positive and hopeful. I'm sure it will all sort itself out. I still feel these 'volunteers' took advantage of the previous owners and that you are being incredibly kind in a difficult situation.
Oddly enough the solicitor I usually use was their conveyancer. I'm hoping if I talk to her about the ongoing problem it won't be a conflict of interests and she fully understands why it would have ended up like this with people taking advantage of the previous owners (and now muggins)
I'm a bit confused about this. Do you mean you both used the same solicitor? Surely you must have had an independent solicitor each acting for you? Otherwise then yes of course it would be a conflict of interest. Unless you the solicitor pointed this out to you and you accepted it.
If the field shelter has been there for more than 10 years and this can be proved, it may have acquired planning consent by prescription. Quite useful things, I would hang on to it if you can and keep quiet about it.
Thanks halfwildling, it's just clouded over, but I'm sure the sun will be back soon. I do love bluebells. I'm liking this idea even if I do have sheep on some of it, I can still fence off a manageable meadow.
Lessmiss, the shelter has only been there a couple of years, and I agree it could come in handy.
The solicitor I have used for other matters was their conveyancer (we used one linked to our mortgage provider). So no conflict with regards to conveyancing, but if I were to ask her about my legal rights now it could be a conflict, since I may have recourse against the previous owners. So I think I'll need to hunt down someone else to give me an idea.
OP, I've just read this whole thread and it's really interesting.
I have nothing practical to say, apart from to ask whether you'd consider holding a mini MN festival on the field in the summer?!
WingDefence I'd love it! But I'm not being the bouncer or being in charge of making sure everyone leaves with all the dcs they came with!
just a thought, but if you are concerned about on-going relationships in the village, you just have to let slip at some point (while buying something in village shop is always a good one, especially if there are other customers) that you and your family had bought your very first house with the dream of planning a garden in that field, and your kids are so excited about the tractor coming to plough it.
That would quietly put the other side of the story.
Just loving the image of you wafting through the bluebells in a frock. Baby in white broderie anglais frills and a bonnet obviously...
Don't worry what people think of you, I expect these people are known and quite a few locals are watching with interest have you been in the village shop yet with your baby and chatted
Ask them to stop parking on your drive and to stop letting their dogs run loose at once. And they must clear up behind themselves, including dog poo. You should also say you will be billing them for water until they go, and you are getting a quote to have the shelter removed and the land sorted out- it must be very overgrazed.
You are giving such a lot of notice tbh, a month would have been easier for them as end of March is a long way away and a lot of livery people etc only get a months notice. But- if they advertise for someone to take the horses for free, they might get a response. If they don't, they can call the RSPCA.
The last owner sounds as though he was fed up with them and they were hard to get out. So don't be all softly softly - they aren't being nice with you at all.
If they just leave the stallion, who is the owner really? Your solicitor should look at that as if they don't move him you will need to have a plan in place and as they can't actually prove ownership and neither can you, it could drag on. Its all costing you isn't it?
That is the way to go. Lots of enthusiasm for all our plans. Throw in a couple of "Well we just turned up and the horses were there, we let them stay over the winter rent free to give them a chance to rehome, but anyway! Our meadow..!" To make our position clear.
Lavender, not yet. I've been in PND-hiding. But I'm getting better. I'll get there soon. I imagine all the neighbours think we're a soft touch.
I've done a bit of reading and regardless of owner, the horse's passports should be left where they are. And I know I don't have them.
Ownership-wise, i doubt there's any paperwork, so at best, they admit ownership (he was a gift and they have told us this), at worst he's been abandoned by the previous owners and therefore is our responsibility.
Maybe there is some fascinating history to the stallion. Maybe he is a famous horse that did well in his younger years, which was why he was never gelded, and has been forgotten, left to linger in a village...and why he has attracted such devoted carers who look after him, despite not being his owners and him now being worthless.
Maybe I am getting carried away. What does the stallion look like OP? Is he a big horse? Can you find out more history? Its a bit of a mystery really, most horses are gelded before they are about two years old.
Lessmiss, the previous owners had, had a small holding on the land in the past (the deceased owner, not the two I bought from). They kept horses and he was kept as a stud. When ill health meant she couldn't care for them anymore, she sold all but the stallion. No one wanted an old stud and so he was abandoned in the field.
I've been told he's from an excellent blood line but never broken and never ridden. He's a pleasant chap and in many ways a lot less trouble than his young companion who is far more flighty. I don't want to give the breed, but it's not an expensive one.
I like your romanticism though
I think that's part of my problem, I've romanticised this great coming together of people who saved this poor horse from his loneliness and neglect. But I'm beginning to suspect it could also be the hyenas found vulnerable people to exploit. Apart from the fact that he was alone in the field I have no actual evidence that he was physically neglected.
You should have had it a condition of sale they were removed...too late now though.
I would offer them the use of the field for £500 /£1000 a month or leave in 30 days.
they will leave
My friend had the same thing happen, they kept the horses on the land for two years when someone else wanted the stables and offered good money. The original horse people threatened to inform the tax man!!
Get shut, you bought a field for your use, end of story.
Is it Shergar? It would have to be to let it reside in my field on an open ended basis
If the rescuers think it's such a lovely story, then I'm sure some other
soft touch person will be happy to have it move in
YANBU. They should put money aside now while they are saving on rent to get stallion castrated. They will find it far easier to move them then as most yards wont take a stallion.
Sorry didnt see that stallion is 30 i thought the other one was 30.
You need to establish whether they have insurance and passports OP, especially with the stallion being flighty.
When we had problems with a particularly vicious horse i read up on health and safety, Generally peoples interaction with horses are at your own risk" sort of thing, but if you know the animal is of a certain temperment then you as the land owner are responsible for any injury or damage it causes to others.
Insurance is a must anyway. Insist they are insured this week.
Also if it has no passport i cant remember if the landowner or horse owner is held responsible.
As far as ownership goes, legally the woman who is looking after it, certainly after all this time is considered the legal owner, she has claimed the animal. However, if she abandons them, DO NOT call the RSPCA. Whenever we have had abandonment cases all they have done is threaten the land owner and told them if the animal is neglected they will prosecute the landowner.
I think this whole thing is fishy. I agree with Gobbolino that the horse is Shergar and was horse-napped by these evil criminal masterminds. They didn't rescue him, they stole him! Shall I send Scooby Doo round to unmask them?
It can't be Shergar, this stallion is 30 and Shergar would be 35 now
I've been following the thread and it is sounding more like they were exploiting the previous owners. I hope you can get rid of them easily and enjoy your meadow.
One thought I had was could you get photographic evidence of them in the field, feeding the stallion, in your shed etc.? Then they can't turn around and claim no knowledge of being involved with the horses if they do abandon one/both later?
frankel - we only have the word of the do-gooders
horse rustlers that it is 30....unless it had a big party in the field......that OP had to cater and clean up for
Ah now I was always told that if someone wants to give you a horse you should buy it for £1 and get a receipt to make it legally yours.
<clouds issue even further>
The last owner sounds as though he was fed up with them and they were hard to get out.
The last owner probably sold the house just to get away from them!
<sorry, still not helping>
Yeah Frankel they're criminals, lying is a vocation.
I'm very impressed you know Shergar's age.
Pixel I read that too.
Does anyone remember that thread in 'the tack room' threads about the lady that woke up one morning to find a stunning looking thoroughbred in her field with her daughter's pony?
It ran for many pages and was quite a soap opera.
I work in Horseracing, it's kinda compulsory knowledge
Oh, that's cheating
Don't they microchip horses like with dogs?
Some horses are microchipped, it's only been compulsory in Thoroughbreds since 2000, I can't speak for other breed societies.
I remember that thread, she put up an abandoned horse notice and after 2 weeks it was hers. She rode him and adopted him as far as I remember. (but she was a horsey person)
Oh, too late for poor Shergar then.
Sadly that story ended badly, despite the best efforts of the mumsnetter who had the horse dumped on her post of 15:06:51.
Oh pix... That made weepy reading
Hi op! I know nothing about horses but I wanted to say that I really hope you and your little family will be running around beautiful meadow soon! Good luck and stay strong <3
Oh Pixel - I didn't know, that is really sad
Jenny, photos is a good idea, I'll do that.
I hadn't even thought of Shergar he does bare a remarkable resemblance now you say it!
Pixel that's a very sad tale. Poor lady
Thanks again for all your kind words. Nothing new to report really. I've had messages of support and advice from a few more people I contacted. They seem to be saying PTS isn't the cruel option if it's your only choice and that I'm not unreasonable.
Hi OP, if I was in your position I would contact the British Horse Society for advice from their legal team. You may have to take out membership, but that would give you 3rd party insurance anyway.
If it does come to having the stallion PTS your local hunt would be able to do it for around £300 which would include disposal, rather than pay vets fees plus disposal. The passport would need to be present, then sent back to the issuing body with the appropiate stamp.
OMG - you said the horse's age was approximate - it is Shergar
OP nothing to add but just huge respect for you and how you are handling this: so sorry you have had PND but the way you are gently asserting yourself now makes me think you are well on the mend and I hope the sunshine and meadow will be the final bit of your cure.
Cherry tree that's really useful information. Thanks. The bhs have got back to me and have given me some legal bods to contact.
Carries, I've been told anywhere from 22 to 35
Workingitout, thank you. I have good days and bad days. I haven't lost my sense of humour, but I'm tired of feeling sad. You see, life is actually good now. I escaped my abusive XH, I met someone new and lovely, got married, the dcs adore him, we had a baby, moved to the house of our dreams (ok, it needed and still needs a lot of work, but all the potential is there), and I've just slipped over the edge.
My life is now lovely. I'm safe, the dcs are safe (although impending court battles don't help), this is such a stupid and pointless stress.
Complete - gosh what a lot you have handled. Suspect you coped with all of that and only now that you are safe and happy and supported have you been able to let go and let some of the feeling out. Depression has been a way of giving you a quiet break and now you are ready to emerge with the spring (when it comes). Since you've handled all that these horses and their people will be a walk in the park - especially now that you have such brilliant advice and support from all the horsey Mumsnetters.
In order to ensure they dont give you any more stress I would definitely get your solicitors letter to them to say allowing the notice to run until the end of March is contingent on a list of conditions (no harrassment, no dogs, no parking etc - basically whatever you need to feel happy) and that if any of these are broken the notice period will switch to one week. That should help you feel better and free from bother. I'd even encourage you to shorten the notice in response to the treatment you have received and the information you now have. You are allowed to change your mind!
Thanks Working. That is probably the case, I'm about to enter a big court battle with XH, so it's not as idyllic a time as it sounds. I really can't be wasting energy on other things
Complete - I really like the 'these are the conditions or the notice period goes down to a week' option - there is no need for them to bring dogs onto your property. Can they get to the field without going through your garden? If so, can they remove things from the shed within the next two weeks (and store in the field shelter if necessary) so that you can have some privacy back?
Mistle, I don't know. Sorry had some bad news this morning and it's just knocked me back. Stupid tears.
They've put a notice up saying they're being made homeless and can anyone help? Doesn't seem like they're actively looking, just like they're hoping some other mug will come forward.
I'm feeling very angry, but I've got my own battles to fight. Not this stupid horse thing
Jesus, I've just reread it and it is actually requesting it for free!!!
There's not a hope. Right, I'm seeing my solicitor on another matter tomorrow, I'll ask her about it then too.
Where have they put this message up - on the fence? I do hope that they are being slightly more proactive about finding something.
I can imagine that this is the last thing that you want to be fretting about and using what energy you do have on. I would, if you are up to it and can afford it, find a local solicitor and hand it over to them and ask them to notify the 'visitors' that they are not allowed their dogs on site for any of the period that they remain on site, and if they do that their notice will be shortened to a week. Similarly if there are any instances of them being aggressive towards you or any member of your family that their notice period will be dropped to a week.
What you really need is a friendly MNner who chances to live just up the road that can deal with this for you so that you can deal with all the other things that life is throwing at you at the moment.
It's really upset me that there's no acknowledgement at all that we have let them stay. I'm probably just taking it personally, but we've not actually had a thank you. Let alone a freaking enormous bunch of flowers.
Where have they put the notice up? On your property? Because no-one else is that likely to see it there...
"Being made homeless" - is that actually how they described it? How pathetic. People lose their grazing all the time, livery yards close, you manage. Admittedly a 30 year old entire horse might be difficult to relocate, but it doesn't sound as though they have tried.
They sound very odd. Like a sort of local villagey against the incomer type, but I'd be surprised if they get much sympathy even in your village - they've probably had run ins with other people.
The sensible course of action on their part would be to discuss with you, the new owner, offer payment, and as you have said from the beginning, you would not have been averse to them fencing off part of the field, at least to give them some breathing space.
Nothing to cry about though, they are just odd people, trying it on.
Oooh I would like to add a comment to that along the lines of 'what are you paying at the moment and are you looking to have the same sort of arrangements? but that would require you sending me the link and I'm not going to ask you to do that
This is a blip that I hope you can outsource to someone else to deal with and I hope turns out to be only small. Bottom line is, if they abandon you with the stallion, you have already researched some of the options available. Try not to dwell on it and see if you can make some plans, even if only in your dreams at the moment, for the field when it is vacant.
I know, I'm very tempted to ask everyone I know to comment along the lines of, "I'm sorry? You want free livery?! Wow. You don't ask much!"
Lazy, selfis, lying fuckwits. "Homeless", indeed. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Mind you, at least they are showing signs of looking for alternative grazing!
(though if I was a livery yard owner, I'd find it a bit of an emotive description, as opposed to simply saying that they were looking for new grazing, and it might make me a bit wary).
Lessmiss, you'd be even more wary of the words "for free" which are very much included.
Renter, my thoughts exactly.
Yes, 'peppercorn or free with water' makes it fairly clear doesn't it. Oooh whoopdedoo, they're 'feeding' him... well he won't need the grass then will he???
I know you feel guilty because you are lovely but don't. They are trying to guilt trip you into letting the horses say. YOU are not making them homeless. You can't. You don't own the horses and you aren't renting them a home.
CompletePushover the clue is right there in your name I'm afraid. You've been too kind and as so often happens instead of the people being gracious and grateful for a favour, when the favour ceases then suddenly you're the mean one.
I've had it happen to me several times and so has my DH.
What's even worse is that you then end up being the one who feels bad.
I'm not too sure about some of the people who take on this kind of animal 'rescue' it often turns out that it's more about them being seen to do good than the actual kindness - and the biggest amount of do-gooding at the moment is you letting them have use of the field and water for free, while you're unable to use the land for the very purpose that you bought it for.
They, however, take the moral highground.
I'm not unsympathetic towards the family you purchased from, or the needs of the unwanted horse, but you can't take on everyone's problems, you have enough to deal with and you've more than done your bit. A different purchaser may well have refused to complete without vacant possession or given them a notice to quit immediately.
Keep thinking about that and stay firm.
The more you give, the more they'll take.
"Two weeks before completion the owner tells us we will be inheriting a cat and that the horses are staying (he's gifted the stallion to the other horse owner)"
huh? They cannot just tell you anything.
Unless you bought the land with a legal written clause that the horses were to remain they have no right surely?
Its your house and your land. I know a celebrity who was TOLD the locals used his land for fishing as they always had and would continue to do so now he had bought the house.
He told them to bugger off.
Unless YOU have a written account with them that they did the field work for YOU in return for free stabling then you could tell them to leave today.
Mistle I wouldn't wish this "warm feeling" on my worst enemy (that's the reward you get for giving them your things for free).
Toffee, you're quite right. I'm not making them homeless, irresponsible horse owners are unwilling to pay for what they need from someone who will provide what they want happily.
Enrique, that's exactly it, when does the favour become the expectation, and the withdrawal of said favour become the act of badness?!
Moldings I could walk over there now and kick them out. I'm regretting being so nice.
You could add on their thread ' new field owner will be responsible for paying for water, will have private garden overrun by dogs and will be shouted at on their doorstep'
That won't help with their search for a new field of course...
Mistle this had occurred to me don't want to warn anyone off for my sake, but nor would I want anyone lumbered with this.
Sorry to hear your story - i think you've been very reasonable considering. Time to fight maybe?
It's amazing how often this sort of thing happens - someone i know bought a farm last year and arrived to find the previous owners had left a donkey and 6 geese!!!! Still not been claimed so they now look after them.
Betty, I don't think it's uncommon at all. I'm glad it wasn't geese they're much scarier. We used to have them when I was little and they'd chase me.
I really don't think that you would be 'unreasonable' to ask them to use a temporary electric fence to keep the horses in half of the field so that you could use the other part, until they go. It wouldn't have been unreasonable to chuck them out when you moved in - so really they are taking the biscuit to be so outraged that you want to occupy the field that you bought.
Mistle, I think you're right. We do want to make a start on work over there, and a lot of it needs doing before spring.
Post a link to the advert and we can post questions like "how much are you paying now?", "why do you have to move them?" and things like that, to shame them. They are horrible.
I'd love to but it'd mean putting my locati
...on on here and would completely out me
Just spoke to someone about this and here's an interesting angle that I hadn't considered; with all this saving of the animals, where was the army of helpers to help the people in the house? The house was a state (think one of those 'filthy house' programmes with actual animal faeces etc. throughout), they had health issues, and no one helped. That's really sad
You need the solicitor from this thread!
I do, don't I?
My resolve is firming by the moment.
Just read whole thread - YADNBU!!!!
Good luck OP, the MN vipers are behind you
Thanks straining I couldn't wish for a better support.
I'm just hoping that at some point I'll be able to come on here with a "they've gone!" Post.
I would love to make a notice, and laminate it and stick it up next to their notice:
The current owners of this field have very kindly allowed us to have our horses here rent free, and provided us with water at their expense.
They also allowed us use of their parking, shed and access through their garden.
We are so grateful to them for their kindness and generosity, but now we need to give them their field back so that their children can have a garden.
So we are looking for a new field. Can you help?
It's standard' isn't it, that animal charities are much richer than people charities. Extends to rl too. How cheering to know your neighbours are so keen on helping the horses, but not the people.
So sorry about the Other Stuff in your life, Complete. if only there was a place you could go to and get support on an ongoing basis from a group of fabulous knowledgeable people who think you are fantastic...
When it's time, if you want to, you know where to ask!
In the meantime, a letter from your solicitor which uses much of steppemum's poster and shortens the notice to a month and warns that any harassment will lead to notice being shortened to a week is now due!
OP, if I were you it would be worth dropping this into conversation with your nice neighbour. My guess is that it will soon work its way round your community and the chances are that most people will be supportive of you - and rightly so.
As others have said, genuine horsey people will read their online request and probably bust a gut laughing. Anyone who has animals (of whatever shape and size!) knows that ownership of animals entails responsibility and that there is almost always a cost attached, if you a responsible owner.
<tries not to remember latest vet's bill>
I think the correct response to any questions or comments from the village is to say 'I'm just so grateful that we were in a position to help out for so long, I really wish them luck.'
Steppe that is very tempting
I will talk to all the neighbours and explain our dilemma when I get a chance.
Genuine horsey people tend to be remarkably pragmatic. I just seem to be missing something. They came to the rescue of a horse in need, the owners finally moved on and gifted said horse to the rescuers. In the mean time they had bought themselves a horse.
They now own two horses, neither of which are neglected or in need. As horse owners they wish to find free livery for their responsibilities.
I would never buy an animal that I couldn't afford to feed and care for, for its entire lifespan.
I'm seeing my solicitor about something else tomorrow, but if I get a chance I'll sound her out on this as well.
Beryl, that's a great response
Blimey what a nerve! Anyway, chat to your nice neighbour, repeat Beryl's response to all, and absolutely talk to your solicitor!
They are trying to get someone else to do it for free. Ignore them. Try not to take it personally but it should strengthen your resolve to get them out. The previous owner of your house should be ashamed of himself.
And no loose dogs, use of drive and water for free- really most horse owners I know would have sorted it by now. I should imagine they are well known for this type of thing.
'Homeless'?! OP, I hope you are soon rid of these unbelievable piss-takers.
where have they posted this 'homeless' request?
Ok. Im a horse owner and I think you are being totally reasonable.
Personally, if I was the owners, I would put the stallion to sleep. 30 is a damned good age, and its going to be hard to find somewhere. I wouldn't hold it against you either. It's the sensible option.
Something else I'd suggest is that I wouldn't walk your dog and your baby in the field with these horses. I've seen generally lovely horses turn on dogs in an instant, and ill not be taking my own baby into the paddock with my own animals. This is an unbroken stallion, and you don't know what it could do. Mine are lovely small children's ponies, but I still got a kick in the leg the other day when I walked through the field when they were loose. They were expecting food and had a bit of a hooley when they didn't get any.
Be careful. x
I have a very elderly horse and I pay rent for a field and stabling and keep myself and my horse on a low profile, happily moving him about to suit the needs of the landowner. It has never crossed my mind to just take over one of the many fields around us and emotionally blackmail any of the owners into letting me stay for free. Two reasons for that really, firstly I'm not an asshole and secondly all my local landowners are farmers. Their land is their business and it would not cost them a second thought to take the necessary action to evict me and my horse.
Your resident "do gooders" have seen you as a soft touch OP. They are abusing your good nature and they have form for it having abused the trust of the previous owners (who it seems were in no position to stand up to their bullying).
Homeless my arse.
Photograph them on your land with the horses so you have proof of their involvement, in case they try to abandon one or both (I would let them see you doing it too). Involve your solicitor and inform them that they are leaving, in writing. Do not allow any room for manoeuvring as these are black belt piss takers. There is not a single horse owner on this planet who does not expect to have to provide somewhere for their horse to live, either by buying land themselves or by renting space off someone else.
For them to pretend otherwise is not naive it is entirely disingenuous.
It is such a relief to have horse owners replying.
It's been posted on a social networking site. I don't know if they've put it anywhere else. I'll just have a quick google...
Even a search for "horse" and the area brings up nothing. Not even their post
And I believe that passports are supposed to be kept with the horses, I don't have them.
While you are googling, I would look up some local stables and print out a list of their numbers. I would laminate it and attach it securely to their shed. In their shed they would find everything they had previously declared they were storing in your shed.
They would also sadly find that their ability to park on your property was somewhat hindered.
On the day after they are supposed to have left I would arrange for someone to come and plough the field. If necessary get some electric fencing and, if they have not moved, fence off the corner of the field nearest their shed (with their horses in it) and plough the rest.
It may sound aggressive but FFS they came to your door and shouted in your husbands face because you declined to continue bankrolling their hobby! These are not reasonable, nice people OP they are freeloading parasites who think they can boss you around.
Auditor that is a good idea. I'll google now.
There is a corner fenced off so I could put them in there. They'd have to be tied up (it's at the entrance. But I'm happy to fill a hay net and water them for the day. There is then no where for them to go back to.
I will of course warn them that this is happening, because I am still reasonable. It's then their decision.
ah now, if there is already a corner fenced off may I suggest you ask/tell them to keep the horses only in that corner until they leave so that your kids and dog can access the rest of the field or you can start remedial work on it. Start to make changes now, start to reduce the facilities they have, turn off the water, say there is a leak, that way they have to transport water, stop the parking, say it is inconvenient for you, stop the dogs being there, tell them you don't want strange dogs around your puppy and children. Move their stuff out of your shed as said above because you need to use the shed. If you start to make it difficult they will be more inclined to find somewhere else quickly.
Even a search for "horse" and the area brings up nothing. Not even their post.
That's probably because you tried "horse" rather than "magnificent stallion" or "equine legend." Don't forget to add the search terms: "incomers," "local," and "homeless"!
In a way, I really hope they go to the local paper with this, since you'd have a chance to put your side publicly, and there's nothing local papers love more than a genuine story, as opposed to cheque presentations and gardening newszzzzzz oh! Did I just nod off there? Sorry!
If they are visiting without your knowledge then you could communicate with them via notices on the shed door. You could start by putting up the new rules? Suggestions:
1) No parking on my land - see layby for parking.
2) Water meter bill for last 3 months is £x - to be paid by ... 1 week or water supply cut off as of that day.
3) NO DOGS on my land
4) list of people accessing my land required
5) Horses need to be fenced off by secure electric fencing by 1 week's time - or eviction will be brought forwards to 1 week after that.
I am sure between us we can think of some more.
Plus you could have a signing in book for access to your land so you actually know who's coming and going? And start taking car reg numbers now just so you have an idea of the number of people involved.
I hope all this doesn't aggravate your PND. Getting out in the garden sounds a good idea. And when all this is sorted your life will be super. What a marvellous set of changes you've made.
Could you either:
1. temporarily park your car in such a way that no other car can park, so park at the end of the drive instead of near the house.
2. put a large stone or 3 across the drive so no-one can park there?
move stuff out of shed and lock it. When asked say innocently, Oh, but we needed the space, it is full of our stuff out of storage!
And print off nice laminated sign form internet saying
NO DOGS PLEASE - SMALL CHILDREN LIVE HERE
Right. Ive had a good read and come to some conclusions. Ill summarise:
These people took on the care of a horse owned by the previous house owners, who abandoned it. Paid for new fencing and a field shelter out of their own funds. Found it a companion, have fed it, 'clothed it' and paid for it for 18 months. In fencing and providing the shelter, they very probably raised the value of someone elses land.
This isn't unreasonable. Its cost them a lot of money, probably shared several ways by the sound of the number of people involved. fencing is expensive, and field shelters don't come cheap. Until the point where the horse was gifted to them, THEY weren't getting anything for free. They were subsidising the actual owner of the horse who dumped it and should, responsibly, have put the elderly horse to sleep at the time they could no longer care for it.
When the previous owner gifted the horse to them and sold the property, he told them they could stay and told you that they were staying. He was being unreasonable.
You agreed that they could have a few months, which was very nice of you, you were not being unreasonable.
There has been a lack of communication all round. It would have been a good idea, at the start for everyone to get together and thrash out the finer details of the situation. You needed to find out what was involved before you agreed to anything, and they should have come to you and double checked that things could still continue exactly as they were. They may have been rent free, but they should have offered you money and you could have asked for it. Silly, but not unreasonable on anyones part. Everyone just took stuff for granted.
You have served them notice, and they are looking for something. They may well be not using the internet. A lot of my horsey circle are older and not overly computer literate. Tack shops, feed merchants and local equestrian papers are much more use. FB though is a stong tool in networking though, especially in rescue type situations, which is what this basically is. How they word their advert really isn't relevant.
So still not unreasonable.
Sadly, one of the rescuers is upset. Unreasonable, but sadly normal in terms of animal lovers. Her friend seems very reasonable and shows no sign to date of not being on your side.
What would be unreasonable, would be to turn off the water supply, leave them tied up in a small area, open the gates or have any animal shot. Especially before the agreed notice period has passed.
Particularly opening gates. If through this action, anyone was injured, or accident caused, YWBVU and possibly liable for prosecution.
Im not suggesting that you would do any of the above, but all have been suggested here.
Here is what I suggest, (and I know you want your land back.)
Contact the reasonable tenant. Ask for a meeting of EVERYONE involved.
Stay firm, but stay reasonable. Here are some bullet points.
1/ confirm the date they MUST be off.
2/ it is no longer acceptable to park on your property. There is a layby which is fine to use. NO CARS ON YOUR PROPERTY.
3/ Unless there is access to the paddock at some other point, In which case this MUST be used rather than access via your property, access is strictly from the front entrance to the paddock, with no other use of your drive or garden acceptable.
4/ You have an unvaccinated puppy, NO DOGS allowed on the property.
5/ You will be requiring the return of your shed space with IMMEDIATE EFFECT.
6/ You wish to use some of your property. The horses are to be contained on half of the property, behind a temporary fence in order to ensure the safety of yourself, your DCs and your dog.
7/ the property MUST be vacated by X date, (The day notice expires)
Failure to vacate will then lead to the animals being tied up in the small enclosure by the gate, and the rest of the field being ploughed up prior to reseeding. Water will be disconnected.
Make these points clear, and provide written details to everyone.
All of these points are entirely reasonable and within your rights and should help you feel less imposed upon. They do not affect the welfare of the horse in any way until the notice period is over, in which case, the owners are then being unreasonable.
This is a shit situation for you, and Im sorry you are In it. I hope this helps.
Saggy, firstly rest assured that I would never just open the gates. I'm a country lass, and would never endanger animals or people like that. If it did come to having to PTS, it would be a vet doing it in the kindest possible way.
I like all the points made. I was hoping the initial upset would have been followed up by contacting me once it had all calmed down, I've been disappointed that instead they've changed the time they feed the horses in an attempt to avoid us.
Renter I did snigger at "magnificent stallion" you're quite right, I'm using the wrong keywords.
They haven't added value to the land. The fence hasn't been redone in more than 10 years, but holes have been filled. The shelter was built from donations. The ground their on has worsened significantly in the past few years and is currently overgrazed. I accept it was probably under grazed before the 2nd horse came along. The whole area needs reseeding.
actually I agree with a lot of what saggy says.
While I think you should have your land back and should not worry about taking a firm hand, I don't think they are deliberately taking the p**
I think they did a good deed at their expense which has now got out of hand.
A meeting would clear the air, and make everyone's position clear.
BUT you must have someone with you who is OK to stand firm on your behalf if you don't think you could.
(I'll come and be nice but immoveable if you live in Glos/ Wilts)
Aw steppe that's very nice but you are far, far away!
I really hope they are genuinely nice people who are being overly emotive, that would make this all a lot easier. If nothing else I think I doubt their organisational skills and I think their fallback is to rely on me not wanting to see the horse PTS.
You didn't leave the gate open did you ... www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-25741103 (although not nice for those involved)
Something to consider is, did they actually want to be gifted this animal?
There's a good chance that the previous owner told them it was theirs
and they could stay if they took it on. Lets face it, HE obviously didn't want the responsibility, or he would have arranged a new home for it himself.
It honestly sounds like this is a shit situation all round, and the only person who has benefitted is the previous owner. He's spent 18 months letting someone else look after the horse at their own expense and has now abandoned the problem onto you and the rescuers.
TBF, IMO the best thing for this horse would be to be PTS. Someone will be lumbered with it, and no welfare/rescue organisation will touch it, they are all bursting at the seams.
Could you give them a date for vacation and then have the horses taken by a horse rescue as abandoned on the next day if they are not gone?
The one thing I haven't seen mentioned on the thread of late, just being fair here, is that the deceased original owner was not in any fit state to care for the house and although at the time, the horse didn't seem neglected as such, caring for it was a burden to the owner. This is why 'rescuers' became involved in the first place?
When the owner died the beneficiaries, as I understood it, were people who in turn have special needs.
That's how the OP became involved, as they didn't feel able to insist on goods and possessions being removed by the beneficiary/ies.
That added an additional aspect to the whole issue.
No. You cant. Firstly because although the new owners wouldn't have fulfilled their obligations to the OP, they would be still caring for the horses. It would probably become trespass, but not abandonment.
Secondly, because its EXTREMELY difficult to get any kind of rescue centre/welfare group to take on equines ATM. They are ALL full beyond bursting point. The RSPCA are more than useless, unless the horses are in dying condition.
I've been advised by various organisations that if they don't go I could put up an abandonment notice. If they then don't take them in 2 weeks I could take ownership.
Yes the previous owners were vulnerable adults. No responsible adult would have taken ownership from them without having somewhere else to go.
Some advice here
The horses would only be abandoned if the owners weren't caring for them. Otherwise, its 'fly grazing'.
If the owners refuse to remove the animals, it could be very difficult to get them off of your property.
I really strongly suggest a meeting and trying to keep at least the reasonable owner onside.
You have been dumped on in this situation, but you need to try and solve it amicably. Otherwise you will need to seek legal help and things may well get long winded.
Thanks saggy, that is very much the plan. Unfortunately the reasonable one is no longer in the area. So the next meeting will be without the "mediator" present. Hopefully her emotions have died down now. Dh is a very calm person and so is good at being non-confrontational.
There is absolutely no way they are going to find grazing the way they are going about it. But that can be included in the meeting, I can find out exactly what they are doing and be very firm with our dates.
I think the suggestion to impose some boundaries in the meantime, is a very good idea.
Tanner we intend to, just having discussions about what we want and what we don't mind
Saggy's advice about having better communication and setting interim boundaries sound like it'll make your life less stressful. Could you pin a note (or two) letting them know you want to meet, so they all see it?
Sorry to hear the reasonable one isn't around at the moment, is that temporary?
Shoom, nope, she moved away. I've only met her once.
I do worry that without her here we're going to face aggression.
If she gets aggressive, don't be intimidated. Have DH with you and stay calm.
Ask for everyone still involved to be present. Have everything written down clearly and give everyone a copy.
I really think that you need to let them have their notice period, but once its done, I would do what you mentioned about the small pen by the gate and plough the rest of it up. It forces the issue, the grazing will be gone. They will have to leave then.
Did you say you had the reasonable woman's email? keeping her in the loop might be a good idea.
Saggy, that's the plan. I doubt anyone else would be present. I simply don't think any of the others would turn up. They've never introduced themselves to me, and they seem pretty fair weather horse-rescuers.
Saggy yes I do. I've composed an email to her laying out what we want and explaining that I'm approaching her first as previous discussions with the other hadn't gone well, and I was hoping she could advise on the best way to broach these matters.
Sounds like a good plan. Maybe she could pass the boundaries on to the rest of the people.
Saggy, I'm sure she can. Hopefully she'll be happy to remain as mediator.
That sounds positive. Remember you're telling, not asking
" Best way to broach this situation" amicably as it will be coming to an end on x date.
If you are made feel uncomfortable in any way or your terms are not met during the notice period, you have no other option but to bring the notice date forward.
You need to be very clear, and very direct.
I've had a reread and have made sure I've repeated the end date several times
Will sleep on it and send it in the morning.
I've been lurking but wanted to add my voice to the opinion that you are in no way BU.
If you are wary of aggression when you eventually meet with the unhappy rescuer remember that if you are, or feel, threatened then the police would be happy to hear about the situation and assist in stopping any escalation. The other rescuers may be of the fair weather persuasion but I should think the person you are wanting to talk with will probably not come alone. Don't let that worry you. The second person may be a voice of reason too.
Homebird, I love it when lurkers delurk. I'm 99% lurker these days.
I don't think it would get violent, but I do think it could be very unpleasant and shouty. But you're right, police are always an option if it gets out of hand.
I would very much prefer she wasn't alone.
The email has been reread and is going today. It explains everything that needs to happen and firmly repeats the end date with the added bit that the field is being worked from then.
So.. are you just letting it sit there in your 'drafts' folder then?
Have you managed to get to see your solicitor and talk it through with them - forgotten when it was.
I've sent it to dh and he's going to email it from him so I don't have to deal with it.
Saw solicitor about something else yesterday, but didn't get a chance to discuss this properly, although we did tell her we were having some issues. Unfortunately it's not the priority in life at the moment. But I want to know exactly where I stand if they ignore me.
Who is the 'owner' of the 2nd horse? I hope its not Mrs Unreasonable - but it probably is...
Have you asked for your shed back?
Can they access the field without coming through your garden?
Mrs unreasonable owns both I believe. This is what we've been told by her and others. So ultimately it will be her who will comply or not.
There is access separate to the garden, and the request includes not entering our garden for feed etc. as well as electric fencing, no dogs and a non negotiable end date.
We're going to try to go down the, "you didn't make this situation, we didn't make this situation, the previous owners did and sadly now we all have to sort it out" route.
It's been sent
Fingers crossed for a positive response
Another de lurker! Just wanted to say that I have read the whole thing front to back and think you are a lovely, lovely person.
I really do hope everything works out for you, and that the horses are found new home/s soon.
Hurray for de lurkers!
Thanks Lauren, I'm still feeling mean.
You're not mean! What do you think a farmer would do if he arrived at his new farm and found half the property inhabited by a couple of goats, a few sheep, a bull and 5 donkeys - he's not going to leave them all there whilst his own animals don't get to use his land is he?
Mistle, a farmer would sell them for dog meat.
I am my name
CP, I've read the whole thread and think you are so NBU. We had a slightly similar situation when we bought our house, in that 2 horses were grazed in our field, for free, with field shelter etc.
we put up with it for a bit, because I love horses, but when they kept breaking down the fences and roaming the garden I got a bit miffed. especially trying to encourage a 17hh carthorse type back into the field while 8 months pregnant with a 2yo hanging round my knees... I also found it intrusive having the 2 owners just dropping round whenever they wanted to feed/tack up/pick up poo/etc etc etc.
also I would reiterate what everyone else has said about safety - I used to have nightmares looking at the carthorse type's hooves, bigger than the baby's head...
so we said they had to move, and they did, luckily for us. stick at it, just remember how much you want to enjoy your beautiful meadow!
You are not being mean! Stop hand wringing and look forward to using the property you bought!
The only ones being unreasonable here are the freeloaders. They should not have bought another horse- big mistake for the previous owner to allow that- they should have been told to move the stallion to somewhere where he can have company.
They will probably say, as they did before no doubt, no one wants a stallion as it can't really share, he'll have to be shot. You just say " well, you must find a solution as the exit date is x"
Tbh, 30 is pretty good going. That's a life span of a horse, usually. Saying that, I'd be surprised if it has any teeth left and the condition of the ones it has must be dreadful. It most likely won't have a passport, its too old and sounds like its never left the field or had a vet insist on one, been insured etc.
Crikey - how did I miss this epic thread until now? And why didn't I know that goats were stackable?
In terms of keeping them off the field, does your friendly farmer have geese who you could borrow for the next few months? You could also get a no admittance sign made up for the general gate, something like the prohibited sign on here printed off for free and laminated, so it's clear that they can't get in.
Stop feeling mean - you have a baby, wider issues and two horses and a host of hanger-ons which is more than enough to deal with. Keep this in mind. It'll be like a flake advert! You can waft in lavender, poppies, corn flowers, and all that horse shit will make them grow a treat.
Boschy, so good to hear from someone who's been in the same position. Glad it went smoothly.
Lavender I will restrict my hand wringing to once a week promise.
Peterparker stackable goats are the future. I'll keep my eyes on the prize and hopefully it'll be as simple as boschy's case!
We're going to try to go down the, "you didn't make this situation, we didn't make this situation, the previous owners did and sadly now we all have to sort it out" route.
This ^ is brilliant, really inspired. It takes the personal agro out of it. They are actually in a very difficult situation (which they could have seen coming a mile off if they had any common sense) and their problem is not your problem. By using this approach it recognises that both sides have been lumbered with a problem situation and removes the blame game which will get you nowhere.
Good for you!
I've read through this thread OP, and YANBU!
An extra comment .... is the land registered with the RPA - i.e. can you get the Single Farm Payment on it? You could also look at various environmental schemes for your field which pay (well!) per acre/ hectare. This could necessitate doing work like maintaining hedgerows or stone walls etc, so you could tell these people that you need the land clear to do this work.
I know you've put the wheels in motion to get rid of them, but it's just an added point to make to them should you need or want to.
Good look with your email - watching with interest to see how it's received.
Thanks steppe, luckily the angle is also true! Yes, the previous owners weren't able to make responsible decisions, but that still means we're sorting the consequences.
Libra, there are a couple of schemes I've got my eye on and someone has just offered me some dormouse boxes so we can find out if we do have them or not
OP you sound lovely and I hope that there is a quick resolution to this difficult situation and you can enjoy your garden very soon
Dormice - reminds me - what about the cat you "inherited" ?
The cat we are feeding, she's no trouble really. She's an outside cat so we've made her a warm space in the shed.
No reply so far to the email, but she may not have had it yet. I do have a bit of an update, the person I spoke to before about it all has been doing a bit of digging, it turns out understanding lady has been saying that we are being incredibly generous and reasonable about it all, and that the horse's owners have a reputation for being "difficult".
So on the not-being-ostracised-by-the-local-community front all is looking good
Good news on that! Still think a 'welcome to our new meadow' BBQ is a nice idea - but might be rather £££ unless you can get everyone to bring things and provide the grill(s) and the venue.
Arent you going to tell us what the email said!?
Birdy, I think that she's given us a good enough idea what the email said without typing it all out word for word!
I hope that you're feeding the cat well and she doesn't eat doormice.
I wonder what sort of meadow is best for doormice... and do you need hedgerows too?
Thats lovely. The thing to remember is that you haven't been ungenerous or unreasonable. There's no reason for the locals to ostracise you. As a horsey person, I'd say yes, horse owners can be very passionate about their animals, but 'rescuers' are even worse. I've been involved in more than one paddock, abandonment, overcrowding issue, and they were all 'rescued' animals. There appears to be a fine line between horse 'rescuers' and 'completely bonkers animal collectors!'
In answer to what someone said up thread, as a stallion of a specific breed, used as a stud, there is a very good chance he has a passport. breed societies have been issuing them for years. Not really relevant I know, I just wanted to interject.
Shergar wouldn't have a passport At least not a valid one.
Of course they have a reputation for being "difficult"! They have/ she has done this before, to someone who wasn't an incomer. Also, it's easier to "rescue" if it's other people paying, or bring inconvenienced, or crowded
or trampled by their totem!
Ok, we have a reply. It's very nice and understanding and recognises a simple lack of communication on all sides ( which is certainly true ).
It does go in to a lot of detail on the difficulties rehoming and doesn't firmly acknowledge the end date, which does concern me somewhat.
We're selling our house soon...dya think we can just leave the children in the back garden for the New owners to sort out?
Well done OP you're handling this well
Kate, just drop them off here. We'll find space for them somewhere
Try not to get drawn into it being a shared problem. E.g. don't make suggestions about how or where they can move off your land. Just repeat your demands and timescales and possibly add a "yes it's unfortunate however..."
Complete... I just wonder whether a cheeky post in the tack room finding out if anyone wants an old stallion as a companion for a horse of their own....
Worth a try. Will give it a go
did you add the bit about penning them by the gate and ploughing up the field?
Hope you get a decent reply from the email
WTF is with the person who was selling the house?
in all seriousness, actually, perhaps this is a very silly idea but is there anythign to stop you taking the two horses to the Unpleasant Woman's house and leaving them tied up on the front lawn, and closing all access to your field? at the date you've given them notice for, naturally)
I'd reply to their e-mail. "Many thanks for your considered response to our e-mail. We look forward to hearing how you have resolved the issues that you outline in your e-mail, so that the deadline of 28th Feb for vacation of the field by the horses is met."
Polite but firm.
good reply Peter.
really glad to hear that the nice lady is helping behind the scenes.
In my experience of villages, the less you comment and the nicer and more reasonable you are in every day life, the village is not stupid, they work it out.
I'd be more blunt. You don't need to hear how they've resolved their issues (it opens the door for them to tell you all about how they haven't".
"Thank you for your reply, this is to confirm that you will have vacated the field by the 28th February at the latest. The gates will be padlocked on 1st March".
All sounds good so far. I wouldn't go transporting them anywhere though. You have no idea how they will behave outside the paddock, you or them could be seriously injured.
Just dropping in to see how things are going... which appears to be slowly, but progress is being made.
I can't see any dramatic steps forward anytime soon.
We'll find out today if they're going to ignore the request not to park on the drive. (If I'm here when they come)
This weekend we're hoping to do more work on the garden, so we'll be able to catch them it they see to the horses at any point. It would be good to talk face to face and gauge what's being done.
I won't be moving the horses any further than the smaller bit. And if I do that I'll be calling in a horsey friend to help me do it.
Very firm but fair, PeterParker!
That reply does sound like she's setting up excuses for when the date comes. Don't get drawn in. Don't proffer understanding. Don't proffer thanks. Keep it very very simple and straightforward of what is required. So I'd stick with Peekingduck's completely uncompromising reply. Or no reply at all as one isn't really necessary (though of course she may take no reply as as complete capitulation - because she is a piss taker).
Hope the gardening goes well.