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Better Miscarriage Care - could you help with the renaming of ERPC (takes 20 seconds!)?

(72 Posts)
KateMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 03-Jul-12 12:54:30

Hello

You might remember that we've been working with the Miscarriage Association and the Association of Early Pregnancy Units to find an alternative term for ERPC (Evacuation of Retained Products of Conception), a term which so many of you found insensitive and upsetting. Good news - there's been unanimous support from doctors, midwives, nurses and sonographers for finding a new name to describe the procedure.

Earlier this year we pointed you towards a survey which asked what you'd like the alternative term to be. The favourite amongst those on offer was 'surgical treatment of miscarriage', but many also unilaterally suggested 'surgical management of miscarriage', which wasn't one of the stated options at that time.

This phrase would fit in well with the terms already in use for alternative treatments - "medical management" (with tablets) and "expectant management" (or the natural process).

So could we possibly ask you one more time to follow this link and let us know which term you prefer? We know it's been a rather <ahem> extended process, but it's a super-quick survey and it would be great to get this as right as we possibly can.

Thanks,

MNHQ

SESthebrave Tue 03-Jul-12 13:02:35

Done - thank you!
I think it's worth taking time on this to get it right.

Done

huffpuff75 Tue 03-Jul-12 13:10:27

Done - thanks Mumsnet for campaigning on this

alana39 Tue 03-Jul-12 13:31:42

Done, thankyou MN

scrappydappydoo Tue 03-Jul-12 13:35:57

Done & thank you! Such a small thing will make so much difference.

speculationisrife Tue 03-Jul-12 14:54:28

Done. Thank you - another small step to changing attitudes.

SaliFourth Tue 03-Jul-12 15:13:42

Thank you for helping to sort this. Feeling a bit emotional here.

maples Tue 03-Jul-12 15:30:21

Done - so glad this is potentially going to happen.

HotheadPaisan Tue 03-Jul-12 15:48:18

Done

Woofsaidtheladybird Tue 03-Jul-12 16:39:36

Done - also quite a bit emotional here, but anything to make the process a little more sensitive goes a long way.

ginhag Tue 03-Jul-12 17:39:28

Done. Thanks.

EmmaFurk Tue 03-Jul-12 17:45:22

Also done! I found this term upsetting when i had to go through it.

pinkpyjamas Tue 03-Jul-12 18:16:06

Done.
I found the current term offensive and distressing.
It minimalises what is a very stressful emotional experience.

tunnocksteacake Tue 03-Jul-12 18:20:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TreeFuMom Tue 03-Jul-12 18:36:58

I also found the term "missed abortion" which is used by many medical professionals instead of "missed miscarriage" upsetting and confusing. Has any thought been given to that in the campaign?

Done.

Done. Thank you.

blondieminx Tue 03-Jul-12 20:03:29

Done, thanks MNHQ for campaigning on this thanks

Done. A much better choice than the previous name.

Done.

ShredniVashtar Tue 03-Jul-12 20:48:39

Done. Thanks Mumsnet for this - may it be commonplace very soon. I agree with the poster above about the term "missed abortion" too.

orangebowl Tue 03-Jul-12 21:52:36

Done. I've had 3 of them in the last 18 months so become desensitised to ERPC but thinking about it the new terms are much better

oshuk Tue 03-Jul-12 22:14:05

Done and also agree with poster re term 'missed abortion'.

cosysocks Tue 03-Jul-12 22:48:05

Done but with a tear in my eyes.

Done.

Done. Had a miscarriage last week and was horrified at some of the terminology used. Will never forget those conversations angry

Thank you mn.

MrsS3 Tue 03-Jul-12 23:59:01

long overdue to get this right sad
Wish this had been done 20 years ago (or 22 years ago yesterday, to be exact)

2MumsAreBetterThan1 Wed 04-Jul-12 00:04:09

Done.

Glad this is being looked into.
The medical profession could do with learning some sensitivity.

Done.

NapaCab Wed 04-Jul-12 03:01:30

Done - good initiative.

I still think back to my discharge letter from hospital after my MC (MMC, supposed to have surgery but it happened naturally at home and all went a bit wrong so had to get ambulance and stay overnight in hospital) and the words 'spontaneous abortion' written on it. Made me sound like a cow or something as it's a term I'm only familiar with from veterinary practice, not human beings angry Really terrible insensitivity about MC in many hospitals still.

mumnosbest Wed 04-Jul-12 08:33:55

done you dont treat a pg you manage it. mc should be the same imo. also treatment implies making it better. either are more sensitive to the original though. thanks MN!

Slainte Wed 04-Jul-12 09:04:34

Done, thanks for campaigning on this MN.

Luckystar96 Wed 04-Jul-12 11:00:05

I agree about the term 'missed abortion' too. It was so horrible to have what had happened to our baby connected in any way to that word and everything it usually means.

igggi Wed 04-Jul-12 13:54:47

It seems an odd time to make this positive change, when plans are also afoot to reduce women's access to erpcs by making them wait two weeks to see if it happens 'naturally' first.

maples Wed 04-Jul-12 14:00:24

Iggi I thought the same thing.

I think many of us on this thread who were sad to be told the ERPC was the op name would also have been very sad to be offered no choice of treatment, as proposed in the current nice guidelines. hmm

Lemele Wed 04-Jul-12 15:35:39

Done. I think some of the terminology used in the medical profession, but particularly used in relation to miscarriage/other related things, is exceptionally insensitive.

I agree about the 'missed abortion' term too.

igggi Wed 04-Jul-12 15:43:21

Maples I quite agree. I am picturing someone in an office somewhere saying "But we gave you a nice new name for it, you mean you expect us to offer you it as well???"

Done. And I agree with PP's, there is still a lot to be learnt about sensitivity in the NHS with regards to all this

done

HokeyCokeyPigInAPokey Wed 04-Jul-12 17:38:51

Done

KateMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 04-Jul-12 18:43:37

Many, many thanks to all those who've completed the survey so far.

iggi and maples - we know that there was a great deal of concern about the expectant management recommendation in the proposed NICE guidelines, and we'll be absolutely sure to represent your views on that when we feed back to the consultation.

In fact, there's still more than a month to go before the consultation finishes, so if anyone hasn't yet posted on the consultation thread, or has further points to make, please feel free to add your thoughts.

Thanks

MNHQ

maples Wed 04-Jul-12 19:27:38

Thank you very much Kate.

I suppose what I am worried about is that we feed back on the consultation and then they still go ahead with this change sad

I still can't believe they are proposing this sad

Taffeta Wed 04-Jul-12 22:15:02

Done. Good job MN thanks

toomuchmonthatendofthemoney Wed 04-Jul-12 22:24:50

Done, one small step and all that ....

Done.

I had my miscarriage outside the UK, so never came into contact with these terms until I was thankfully over the worst emotional distress. I believe very strongly that my ability to deal with the loss is down to the superb way in which the hcps helped me through that time. I was always spoken to like a real person, in practical jargon-free language.

CouthyMow Thu 05-Jul-12 10:24:57

Done. Missed/spontaneous abortion is a phrase that makes me angry too. You choose to have an abortion, you DON'T choose to have a miscarriage.

Taffeta Thu 05-Jul-12 11:40:29

Thanks for the link to the consultation thread.

The NICE recommendation for expectant management is appalling.

From the other thread:

"The recommendation re: 7-14 days waiting for expectant management are particularly cruel: how can you function for that long, particularly in a working environment, waiting for "nature to take it's course". Employers will be unhappy about increased levels of sickness, as women are signed off, with their lives on hold & unable to work."

hanahsaunt Thu 05-Jul-12 11:53:22

Done. Tbh ERPC as a term/acronym didn't bother me. The SHO consistently and persisitently referring to my previous spontaneous miscarriage as an abortion I found abhorrent. I did complain.

HurlerOnTheDitch Thu 05-Jul-12 15:29:14

Done. Thanks Mumsnet.

008 Thu 05-Jul-12 18:35:23

Done. Thanks Mumsnet.

The words matter. I had a miscarriage last year, here in Germany and although the advice and care that I received were PHENOMENAL, I later received a bill (totally appropriate and correct) but ... from the Pathology department.

I know it shouldn`t matter ... but just the word Pathology...

Anything we can do to make this awful time just a little more bearable has to be worth the time and effort.

ladyinthelibrary Thu 05-Jul-12 19:47:32

Done, as DD1 has just experienced an ectopic loss today. Thanks you MN xx

freakydeaky Fri 06-Jul-12 13:12:06

Done. Well done Mumsnet. Totally agree with all the other posters who have said that the current term is distressing.

weasar Fri 06-Jul-12 15:08:46

Done. Thanks for making me aware of this MN thanks

ICutMyFootOnOccamsRazor Fri 06-Jul-12 15:15:56

Done.

Incaminka Fri 06-Jul-12 15:23:21

Done.

AmandinePoulain Fri 06-Jul-12 16:34:02

Kate can I also reiterate how appalled I am by both the recommendation of expectant management and the change in policy so that women who present with spotting without pain will not be offered a scan? I've spotted in all of my pregnancies - 2 have had a positive outcome, one not - and think that women presenting with any amount of bleeding should be offered a scan, not a pregnancy test (I still tested positive for weeks after my mc, a test when I started spotting would have told me nothing). Will you be feeding that point back as well?

igggi Fri 06-Jul-12 21:36:38

AmandinePoulain it might be worth reposting your comments on the other thread, in case they are overlooked on the ERPC one.

AmandinePoulain Fri 06-Jul-12 22:00:38

I did, I was one of the first on there but no one from MNHQ has posted there for ages, I was responding to kate's last post.

maples Fri 06-Jul-12 23:13:50

Good posts Armandine - there and here. It's just so shocking isn't it? sad

I think the other thread title was a bit misleading right from the start sadly sad

I think there would otherwise have been even more posts.

At first the thread title included the word 'improving' mc care, the word mc didn't even show up on the iPhone app because the title was too long and then it was unstickied. The title also refers to those 'at risk' of mc /ectopic which is also somewhat misleading as the guidance also deals with the treatment of confirmed mc and this emphasis on expectant management is the biggest change in the guidance.

MNHQ could we please please have a sticky survey asking people how they feel about the unilateral change to expectant management?

Then you could feed back even more votes against, I would think

Sorry to be nitpicky about the thread title as I think your mc campaign is amazing stuff generally. What you have achieved with the name change is amazing thanks

maples Fri 06-Jul-12 23:53:49

Sorry to keep saying the same thing MNHQ - I am just so shocked and upset sad

lastnerve Sat 07-Jul-12 09:50:10

Done

I had a threatened miscarriage and was left in the main waiting room for an hour ,sat on a towel bleeding out everywhere, I can remember I took my preg notes with me and everyone was staring. plus the fact this hospital had big glass bay windows so everyone outside could see. that was very undignified.

KateMumsnet (MNHQ) Sat 07-Jul-12 16:09:58

AmandinePoulain - yes, we'll make sure all the objections are passed on.
Maples - Hmm, that's a good point about the title of the thread not alerting MNers to the proposed changes. We'll have a chat here and think about re-stickying with a different title.

soontobemumofthree Sat 07-Jul-12 16:56:26

Done

Mama1980 Sat 07-Jul-12 17:00:14

I answered the question then read the thread, have to say I am also appalled at the idea that a woman presenting with bleeding but no pain etc would not receive a scan. I bled heavily during my pregnancy had dozens of scans, they were the only thing that gave me hope. The bleeding at 8 weeks was so heavy the dr told me I had certainly mc only for a scan to show my ds jumping away.

Laurarj84 Sat 07-Jul-12 20:37:07

Done. Thank you.

pixiestix Sun 08-Jul-12 11:59:45

Done. Thanks MN thanks

Wolfiefan Sun 08-Jul-12 17:35:40

Done. Thanks mumsnet. Term upset me when I had to have one.

wimbledonisfuckingdull Mon 09-Jul-12 06:12:38

Done. Like another poster, I had six. It didn't bother ME too much as I nursed on the ward and used the erm ERPC daily. DH otoh, was gutted by it.
I see his point.

ash6605 Mon 09-Jul-12 11:26:23

Missed abortion was the term that upset me the most, my work sick note actually implied I'd had an abortion sad

BecsA Mon 04-Mar-13 22:15:03

I found this thread as I had to have an ERPC last week and found the name one of the most upsetting things to deal with - I had lost a baby who was very much wanted, not the 'products of conception'. I'm appalled that this term is still is use despite it seeming from this and other articles online that it was to have been changed some time ago - is there any update? I'd like to think that those facing this in future would have that one less thing to face.

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