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Should we be setting our sights on lads' mags and internet porn as the next leg of Let Girls be Girls?(496 Posts)
Following on from our Let Girls Be Girls campaign, we're thinking about what we might do next in the area of campaigning against premature sexualisation. We know that many of you are concerned about explicitly sexual imagery on the covers of lads' mags and the Sunday Sport, particularly when these publications are displayed at child's-eye level. We also know that some of you are worried about the ease with which children can access frankly pornographic imagery - some of it violent and disturbing - on the internet, whether on PCs or mobile phones.
We'd like to canvass Mumsnetters' views on these and related issues. Are you angry or embarrassed about lads' mags in plain view, or are you not too bothered? Do you consider the Sunday Sport or Zoo magazine to be pornographic, or merely cheeky? Is child access to internet pornography something that concerns you? If so, who do you think should be responsible for filtering out this content: parents/carers, or the internet service providers? If you have already set up parental controls on your computers at home, how effective do you think the filtering software is? An internet entrepreneur in the US has just started selling domain names ending in .xxx, with the intention of making this domain the "red light district" of the internet - see details here; does this sound like a good idea to you?
Obviously porn and sexuality is always a touchy <cough> subject. Just to make it clear, we?re not interested in clamping down on the adult use of (legal) porn; we purely concerned with its availability to children.
We would be very grateful to know your thoughts.
You may be interested to read the Guardian article on the Government's proposals to be released on Monday, www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jun/03/cameron-backed-report-commercialisation-childhood?intcmp=239
obviously it wont be but you know, i'm gonna choose to look to people like her from now on. but nothing will change in society, until the media changes, which it wont.
kittykatx-not sure who your referring to there, personally i am really happy about what i look like, but i still feel it has caused me issues personally especially when i didnt feel good about what i looked like, so then i became more slutty myself and started dressing up more, if you can't beat them, join em i thought. but now i'm starting to think maybe that wasn't such a good idea to present myself in that way and receive too much sexual attention, as that has caused further issues-which i can't go into, and i never really worked on my inner self, which i am now doing blah blah. just think the images give out the wrong messages basically and have been bad role models for me growing up personally. i think someone like kate middleton should be more on the front of magazines and there should be alot more people like her instead, she is well respected and i think that should be the way forward.
I know where you come from, I used to get very upset over these images wondering why I didn't look the same. After a while I took the plungle to increase my confidence and I started belly dancing, it helped a lot, sure I'm not very good but it's fun. Then after my DD was born I had a relapse and so I decided to do life modelling. Because I have confidence in myself the images don't bother me anymore.
You kinda have to remember most of it is fake and is easily achieved with photoshop.
hi nini1000- personally i would not say that it would be too young to allow your daughter to shave at 12, not at all. puberty would have already started then, and maybe younger, and shaving isn't really prematurely sexualising a child, its actually removing body hair that can be very very embarrassing at that age, for some people, when you first get body hair, all you want to do is remove it and pretend puberty isnt happening! it can be a really traumatic time and if she feels better to shave it off then i would let her, because actually a child doesnt have body hair so she is just putting her body back to how she has been used to it for so long probably.
hair under the arms can be very embarrasing (in this culture) and most embarrasing when your 12 and restricts what clothing you feel comfortable wearing like vest tops etc anything sleeveless in the summer or swimwear, and probably the same with leg hair. if even one person points it out to her she could feel really embarrassed esp if everyone else is shaving.
i think it could affect her confidence if she isnt allowed to start shaving. trust that she knows when she is ready for these things, apart from things that are obviously dangerous.
i know these days i am more comfortable with body hair and wouldnt care if i had some armpit hair and people accidently saw it now age 26, but at that age, it can be very embarrassing, she probably hasnt started to accept that her body is changing and it will take time to get used to it.
i think you should allow her to shave on the condition that takes time with you to sit down and speak about the changes to come in puberty and how she feels about it all and not to worry etc, and try to remember how you felt when you went through it and talk it all through.
as a parent ultimately its your descicion as to what you do, but personally i think as a parent it's your role to support their desicions as young people rather than choose their desicions or control them- as long as their desicions are not harmful to themselves or others. goodluck
omg kittykat, you totally dont understand the point i'm really trying to say is not to stop boys looking at images, but prevent people who dont want images shoved in their face from having to see it.
and no in some places you can't just not look at stuff, you see it whether you want to cos its in your face, and in society it's in your face as well, i should know from being someone who has deliberately tried to avoid it but failing to do so and failed to protect myself.
you don't have a clue because it hasnt affected you. well great for u, and for most people, but it is affecting some people.
I have a 12 year old who wants to remove body hair from her legs, under arm and top lip.
we have allowed her to do her top lip becaused she was being teased and it was beginning to affect her confidence, but have drawn the line at the rest.
I dont remember this at 12 but realise times have moved on. what is the best ?
Well, thats your opinion. I know when my son starts getting interested in women I will buy him a lads mag because I would rather him see images like that than the dodgy images all over the internet.
And when my daughter is older I will show her that all body types are normal and teach her about airbrushing as well as to repsect herself. Plus, I am pretty open about my body as is my partner and my kids are too. If they have problems they talk to me.
If you don't want to see those images don't look at them, you know full well they are they, so don't look. Children don't need magazines, mine have lived perfectly well without- nor do they moan about it. If they want to read, they read a book.
As I have said the body is a wonderful thing and it should be celebrated, the more you hide your children the more insercure they will be. You can easily show a child pictures of men and women with the sexual element removed to show them this.
reply to kittkatx
its not actually about protecting men from porn-they dont really need the protection, its about protecting everyone else who doesnt want to see it or shouldnt see it, like young children. its more about children and young women who shouldnt have these images shoved in their face, and lastly about how young men and all men also shouldnt think that in this society that is how you should expect all women to come across, as there is more and more provocative images of women about these days, but nothing we can really do about that.
its about not encouraging unessasry boobs jobs, low self esteem etc for women, and if images are clearly in view all the time then theres no avoiding it.
children growing up with these images will probably turn into them thinking that's how you're supposed to be if you want to be seen as attractive and if you want to be loved and clearly that is happening across the western world. you'd have to be absolutely blind not to notice what's going on in society with the katie price phenomona, carbon copies of what women should be. i just dont think people should be overly influenced and feel the need to be that way. but those are my views.
really its about RESPECT. dignity, self esteem, but most of all not prematurely sexualising children, and damaging their growing minds, just protecting mostly young girls from seeing it all too soon.
i think magazines should just be covered and those interested and age 15+ for zoo and nuts can buy with i.d, hardcore porn 18+ wheres the problem with that? you have age restrictions on films which contain images unsuitable below a certain age, magazines should follow the same policy.
padded bras- what people are saying is wrong about padded bras is its giving the under 10's the appearance of more breast than they actually have, therefore prematurely sexualising them and encouraging them to publically wear them. i used to wear vest tops or cammy tops as they were called, its like a half vest, which actually covers the budding breasts, but padded bras pronounces them, see the difference? its only the padded aspect, nothing else.
lol and the beach-reason i say that was because i was on one age 12 and saw a man with an errect penis touching himself up if front of me and my friend, so yeah, they should be monitored.
i dont really care if you dont agree, i know im right because i was the sensitive young girl offected by society, so you're telling me i'm wrong that my self esteem has been affected by the media and porn? and being exposed too young by my dad watching porn in front of me?
i could go on but i dont want to upset anyone, just protect the next generation.
but i'm actually in therapy for this thats why i care so much. my sister has had same issues.
Reply to sophis:
Padded bras are there to make girls feel less insercure about looking cold. How would you feel at 9 years old being laughed at, it would ruin your confidence. I had them and I wasn't a teenage mother.
In most shops I go in they are on the top shelf. Co-op even covers them, thats enough surely?
You have to pay for most porn channels except a free 10 minute preview, at which time a resposable parent would have sent their child to bed.
Okay, I agree with the magazines for girls, especailly those glorifing the size 0 look.
Know your computer and your child protection and you can easily block websites.
Why nudist beaches? The human body is a wonderful thing and it should be celebrated. The more bodies a child/teen sees the more normal they will feel about their own body. As long is their isn't any XXX rated stuff going on, whats the problem?
Can I say something? If I may?
I know men, who where "protected" from porn as teenages. It hasn't done them any good. As they were protected when they could get their hand on it they went overboard. One even has a seperate computer FULL of porn and not normal porn, the weird stuff.
I also know guys who were given porn as teenages. They are respectable, they still have porn but still to the soft stuff.
And you worry about women being treated like objects?
Well, guess what? They guy with thw weird porn treats women like objects, the guys who grew up with it are perfect gentlemen.
Please think twice before banning this, yes, you may not like it, but it natural for children to be curious. Plus, as long as you teach boys to respect women, all should be fine.
Oh and gentlemen? May I ask you? Did you look at porn as a teen? Did it effect you? I think overprotecting our children is a bad thing.
You can sign an official petition to gets lads mags age restricted and out of sight at www.thefrontpagecampaign.org.uk
deffinately protect children from internet porn access-the internet really needs to be looked into on this subject
please join my facebook group on the subject
Bring back the watershed! 9pm-protect children from inappropriate material.
or try copying and pasting the link
Ideas I sent to government-
backing David Cameron's campaigns to protect children from premature sexualisation link- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-condemns-inappropriate-sexualisation-of-children-1903287.html
I agree with the banning of sexualized childrens clothing-padded bra's and other inappropriate merchandise e.g. playboy pencil cases etc.
Move lads mags up to the top shelf again in newsagents, the shop owners could just select their favourites if theres not enough room, they shouldnt be as low that children can easily see them or even pick them up!
Stick to the 9pm watershed carefully on tv and even radio.
remove porn and music channels from cable/freeview/sky, with an opt in scheme instead.
Reduce sexualized advertising before the 9pm watershed
Cleaner billboards with less sexualized images on them, just keep them in magazines for adults and on tv past 9pm or wherever appropriate.
Age limits on some magazines for girls so that they read the appropriate content for their age and the same for lads mags, they should be I.dd at the counter, you get I.dd for knives, alcohol, cigarettes and dvds etc but theres no strict rules for porn, including soft porn like zoo and nuts, or the sun newspaper.
Make software more available so its easier for parents to control viewing content on internet and tv
There is however the problem of controlling the downloading of music on the internet or videos from utube, perhaps on the back of an I.d card/learners/drivers license/passport/birth certificate etc theyd have to select the form of I.d and type in a code, even if it were a once theyve done it once for a site they dont need to again or something and its up to the people around them if they want to cheat this system-could also use a third party to check age like virgin mobile.
No porn in public- an extension of the usual no porn at work rule, e.g. not viewing rude magazines on public transport and leaving material around etc
Stricter rules on nudist beaches- I think better sign posting and someone patrolling the cut off line to prevent children wandering into them, like I once did!
Mumsnet, please support all efforts to protect children from porn, both in printed form and on the internet. As a mum of two it really bothers me that my kids are being exposed to too much sexual information that they are unable to process emotionally or cognitively.
Some parents may not mind but for those of us who do, it's becoming almost impossible to stop your children from being groomed for sexualisation before they even have much of a clue what sex is about - and that's not because you haven't talked to them about it or because you're a prude, it's because they're 7!
You can sign a petition to get Lads mags kept out of sight from children at this website: www.thefrontpagecampaign.org.uk
The petition is also to get these magazines age restricted, it will be presented at Westminster shortly, so please join the Facebook group and share the petition with all your friends: Front Page Campaign
The Front Page Campaign team
I don't see a problem with lads mags, myself. Being naked is a natural thing. The more children see that parents are trying to ban these or take it away the more they will question themselves. Is being naked okay? Is it wrong? Am I dirty? Then you get a load of confused teenages. The human body should be celebrated. Granted, porn mags arn't the best way, but the women are consenting adults, who know full well what they are doing. Plus, without porn, sexual abuse could happen more because men (and women) won't have visual stimulation.
I was so pleased to read this! I've been on a (what feels like) one woman campaign against the Co-op in my local town, who place lads mags opposite the children's comics. I was called a prude by one of the shop assistants and then told it was standard Co-op layout and they couldn't do anything about it!!
I then rang head office, more than once and was eventually told they would look into it.
The lads mags changed in position for 2 weeks and then went back to their original place - OPPOSITE COMICS..
I now refuse to use the Co-op.
I wouls just like to say that i am pleased to see our local morrisons puts all the lad mags behind magazine shaped pieces of plastic with the names of the mags on and just the banner sticking out of the top so you can't see anything! I think this is brill plus they are also on the top shelf so the kids can't reach em and are not likely to even see em so won't ask about them and why they are hidden. Well done Morrisons!
I suggest getting the Dads involved. Ask them to speak to shop keepers about where these magazines are displayed too. I'm sure the Dads aren't happy with it either and the shopkeepers might listen more if the men complain too.
Years ago when we were fighting for equal pay and trying to stop the exploitation of women - we would take
the mags to the check-out, wait until they have
rang them up, then say we have changed our minds and walk out leaving them on the counter
with a very frustrated assistant.
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