expecting twins and seeking advice on returning to work in first year - is it possible, madness, etc?!

(42 Posts)
mandasand Sun 26-Aug-12 23:24:36

(I posted this question in the Twins Club 4 and got some really useful advice and insights - thank you! - but thought I'd see if I could catch any other perspectives by creating a new thread...)

I'm expecting twins in Feb/March; no children at the mo. Just had 12-week scan and so I'm gearing up to tell my boss and discuss maternity leave when he gets back from holiday in 2 weeks.

I'm an academic in a research post with 18 months or so to work on a short-term contract once the babies arrive. Lots of stuff on my plate for next year involves writing/proofing books, papers and articles, research activity including data entry; no teaching; 80% of what I do can be done from home.

I love my work. When thinking about maternity leave it's not just a case of needing to go back to work (e.g. my forthcoming books are on a publication schedule and the proofs will need attention around the time the babies come; being so close to the end of the contract it's important for me to keep working so I stand a good chance of being considered for any future contract work; other general financial reasons) but also wanting to (I get a lot of satisfaction from my work; my whole life has been geared towards getting to where I am now aged 37 and I don't want to give it up or introduce a break which, in academia, can often be career-fatal).

Officially, I'd like to take 6 or 9 months of mat. leave through my university employer so that (if my boss agrees, although he's also able to replace me wholesale during mat. leave) my contract will be extended by that length of time at the end if there is no further work forthcoming. So, purely financial and pragmatic to take the mat. leave, esp. as it's quite a generous arrangement.

Unofficially, though, I will want to be starting to do a few hours of work-related stuff (from home) as soon as we get into a routine and I start to feel human again with some sleep under my belt! So, I hope I can do 1-2 hrs per week after months 1-2 (maybe at weekends when DH is home) and 6-10 hrs per week from 3-4 months, and to facilitate this DH may go down to a 4-day week for a year or so and I'd like to be able to find someone local (would this be a nanny?) who would be prepared to come to us and help to look after the babies for, say, three hours on the other weekdays. (Our families are nowhere close, unfortunately.)

Not sure what will happen after the period of mat. leave and the return to full-time work...!

Advice on the other thread helpfully emphasized the sheer unpredictability of multiple babies, and their sometimes very different natures / routines. There's also the fact we're first-time parents! I do understand there's lots of worst case scenarios which may throw any plans into the air (e.g. babies coming early, being sickly in hospital) and that I can't really plan this to the nth degree, but I do need to have a best case scenario plan in place - both for myself, as a way of trying, at least, to manage the necessary workload of next year, and for my boss so he doesn't completely freak out (there's only me and him on the project, and I'm the only one paid to do any work! Also, I want him not to replace me during mat. leave so that my contract will be extended by 6 or 9 months.)

So, to multiple mummies who have wanted to keep their hand in with active work or work-related projects in the first year … is this kind of arrangement even remotely possible, practically, emotionally, psychologically?

willow3006 Mon 27-Aug-12 12:58:47

You can definitely start work. It's all dependent on the right childcare. I went back to work when the babies were 5 months old and it has been fine.

mandasand Mon 27-Aug-12 15:31:47

Thanks, willow. Did you start part-time? And would you mind telling me a bit about the kind of childcare you were able to find?

And breathe...!

Ok, dont panic, you just need sone back up.

I was lucky and found a brilliant nanny/maternity nurse who cane in several mornings a week when my two were little as a type if mothers help/maternity nurse then when I started working from home at around 9 months she moved to two full days, then a few weeks down the line I added in some nursery time as they seemed to like a change of scene.
Worked very well for me - on nanny days I get baby clothes washed and feeds made up and I can give them a cuddle when I stop for a cup of tea, on nursery days I get a comPletely quiet house for when I want to write or do interviews.

Only thing I would say is don't plan on working too late. My waters went at my study at 30 weeks and I ended up finishing a contract while they were still in scbu!

mandasand Mon 27-Aug-12 17:40:55

Twelve I love your calm, no nonsense approach! Very reassuring!

Henceforth I am now going to be thinking of it as needing 'back up' - thanks!!

Good advice about not working too close to due date. (Not that I guess you were expecting your waters to break at 30 weeks - eek!) I am blithely ignoring the fact that proofs for the book I'm about to go to press will probably arrive around the time I expect to give birth - ho hum!

You sound very capable and I'm going to take inspiration from you!

Actually I think I was a Blithering Idiot for the first 6 months, but good to know I sound calm!

Seriously, think how your body handles deadline stress. I had s publication to finish by 31 weeks and I literally felt myself get that adrenaline kick of stress a few hours before my waters went. It may have been unrelated, it may have been I was actually sensing labour starting, but I'll always wonder if it was work and life stress which did it. I planned to stop around 34 weeks last time with the view that getting to 36 would be amazing. With hindsight I'd have been seriously winding down - not pushing a last big deadline - from 28wks and not plan to work a day past 32.
I think when you work from home the temptation is always to push it but you sound a bit like me so I would say definitely try and remove as many deadlines and pressures from the third trimester as possible!

Good luck. I don't know what advice you had on the multiple forum but this was my experience.

I have 2 yo twins and a 5 yo boy. When I went on mat leave I fully expected to return to work and wanted to do so. However I did the figures and for me it didn't work out, my salary after tax, NI and childcare was about £200 / £300 per month, this didn't take into account holiday club for 5 yo either, which works out at £200 per week for a 4 day week. I would have been working for a private healthcare and a car, I wouldn't have been able to make pension contributions. This was using the max childcare voucher contributions for myself and DH

Have a look at the figures, I know its just one factor but having two small babies at the same time is very expensive, childcare gets cheaper as they get older. The other factors in not going back to work were having DS1 starting school, I didn't want him to be shuttled from school to after school and then at 6 pm getting them all home and starting the tea / bed time process. The stress of doing that for my family in my situation was too high. I'm sure other families have ways of managing it fine, but for us it didn't work. Having a nanny at home would help, maybe consider a nanny share if anyone else is in a similar position.

I also didn't work to work in that field for the rest of my career but I am now faced with trying to decide what I want to do when the twins go to school and getting back into it.

Good luck with the pregnancy and birth.

mandasand Mon 27-Aug-12 19:19:39

Oh my, that's really interesting about the coincidence about the deadline adrenaline kick and waters breaking. Hmm, food for thought.

Yes, I too have a good capacity for deadline stress (often I don't get moving till the deadline!) and working longer (in a sitting-in-my-PJs-writing kind of way) than the average. But the older I get (now 37) the more I realise that I just can't cope as well with e.g. an all-nighter. I am going to warn my boss that I won't be very mobile from 28 weeks (I usually go down to London once a week which is a v. tiring day) so that could be a good point at which to think about winding down, although I should be able to work happily on some of my easy/boring tasks (which don't cause me any stress) from home for a bit after that. This means front-loading the deadlines!

Currently battling what I'm imagining is twins-related exhaustion and am needing to sleep much more and able to work fewer hours than normal, but I really am trying to follow what my body demands. I know it would be foolish to do otherwise. As my DH reminds me on a daily basis, I'm not in control of my body anymore - the twins are!

Thanks for good advice smile

mandasand Mon 27-Aug-12 19:30:26

Thanks so much for writing with your experience, trying. (We crossposted!)

It sounds like you did the sensible thing for your family (and yourself, too, given that you sensed a career change was on the cards). I'm lucky in that I can work from home a lot and this eases the pressure: I'm not sure I would be so keen if required to be elsewhere every day. Ideally I don't want to move careers. I thought about it and tentatively tried to make it happen when I was struggling to find the next job (my current one) back in 2009-10, but in the end the academic job I wanted came through and, with it, a change of discipline which has really invigorated my career and research profile in lots of exciting ways. So for me it's kind of a crucial moment to keep that momentum going - one of the reasons for continuing even if, as in your experience, the childcare costs make it financially impractical.

Best of luck with the career change: I hope you find something to suit your interests and talents that also allows you the freedom to be there for your family around schooltimes. I'm sure the right thing is just around the corner! smile

Good luck, its not that long a time that they are little and if its a career that you love it is worth it, especially when they go to school and you have more freedom.

I worked four days a week, with some travel but not a lot. I worked until 36 weeks or so, cannot remember precisely, but I went full term and didn't feel too bad, tired but I rested as much as possible. I think I'd have gone further if I worked from home.

In terms of routine once born, it wasn't that bad but I got them into a routine and tried to keep them both in sync, if one woke up in the night for a feed, I woke the other and feed them both at once. It saves on time and means that you get some chance to rest. It is hard work though, maybe get a night nurse for a night or two to give you a break, if you're not breast feeding?

toomuchpink Mon 27-Aug-12 21:21:15

I went back to work at a year, 3 days a week. I absolutely love it and wonder if I should have considered going back a bit earlier. We have a nanny. In some ways I think it would have been good to have her come in from the early months, so the babies knew her from early on. It would have helped me a lot too. (I have an older one as well.)
If at all possible I would try to avoid too much of a solid commitment in the first three months. Of course you want to get the babies into a routine, I did with mine, but it was about the 10/12 week mark when that happened. Getting the hour or so to work on the weekend from DH could be wonderful some days, but there will also be days when you are trying to work and can hear a baby crying and are wondering if it needs feeding, or you are so exhausted you just want to sleep, or you need to eat (b'feeding twins makes you very hungry). I imagine it would be good to have a goal of wanting to cope with the first three months and enjoy the babies as much as possible despite the sometimes very difficult demands, and then have a goal to start the work ball rolling on some level. But that is just me.
One thing you might want to do is find out all about nanny recruitment now, before the babies arrive. Unless you want to pay an agency a few hundred pounds it takes a bit of research and getting your head around - well it did for me. It would have been much easier if I had done that before I had 3 children to look after. Let me know if you want to know anything about my nanny recruitment experience.

ceeveebee Tue 28-Aug-12 00:39:03

I am returning to work part time in a few weeks time, my DTs will be 10.5 months old.

I have had a mothers help 3 afternoons per week since they were 12 weeks old and she will become their nanny. I chose a nanny over nursery because I am in a corporate job, 12 hour days, where it can be difficult to leave on time in the evenings and a nanny can be more flexible. Plus I prefer that they are cared for in their own home.

She has had sole charge of them for a couple of hours a day since about 5 months old on the days she is here. I haven't done much work from home, but I reckon I could have if I had wanted to instead I chose to go to the gym, get hair and nails done.

chutneypig Tue 28-Aug-12 07:10:05

I had an academic post when my twins were born and did manage some work at home, paper writing mostly. My work was largely lab based. It was pretty ad hoc, so I did manage to fit into nap times at 6 weeks or, but it wasn't predictable, I had to seize the chance. It got more challenging at 5 ish months, and I was due back at six months. I think it can work if you know when you will have support, and totally agree about the nurser/ mothers help type thing. I think you need to be sure you can work so you can relax and work, or maybe that's just me!

I also used my KIT days to get into the university and see my group, others, that may help your planning re your boss panicking.

MavisG Tue 28-Aug-12 14:32:23

Also, you can share your mat leave with your husband, so that he takes eg 6 months off after you take the first 6 months.

mandasand Thu 30-Aug-12 19:01:23

Sorry not to have checked in for a while but I very much appreciate all this advice.

I think what a couple of you say about getting them into a routine (if possible!) sounds very sensible.

And looking at the complexities of nanny recruitment before birth, rather than after. Am I right in thinking that you employ nannies, rather than them being self-employed, so are responsible for tax and such? Was that the case with your mother's help-cum-nanny, ceeveebee? I've been trying to read up on it and it sounds pretty daunting to get my head around. I'd be very interested to hear more about your experience of nanny recruitment, toomuchpink, if you've time to write more. Even a simply list of Dos and Don'ts would be great. And my initial googling for 'mother's help' in my area isn't coming up with much - are they called something else?

Thanks for sharing your experience, chutneypig: I've just agreed to serve as a chair and give a paper at a conference due to take place 2-3 months after they are due to arrive (if they come on time) so that will serve as my first public appearance - one of my KIT days, perhaps.

Really inspiring and encouraging, thank you all. On another thread I just got a lot of 'you don't know how you'll feel … you may never want to go back to work' - this is true and possible but right now I need a plan to take to my boss next week and it's been invaluable to hear from women who are making twins + work happen!

chutneypig Thu 30-Aug-12 19:45:32

One other thing which has been a big plus, is that my twins view me and DH as pretty much interchangeable when they feel ill/have a bump. Very handy when I'm at a conference etc. With two you can have one each. I went in for the day when my two were about 7 weeks, DH didn't blink and even managed to get some of his paper written.

Serving as chair sounds great. I found being in regular contact helped minimise impact on my research programme and smoothed going back too.

A lot of people told me I'd feel differently when they arrived. I was certain I wouldn't and was right grin.

ceeveebee Thu 30-Aug-12 19:52:23

Yes, nannies and mothers help etc are generally employed. I think some adhoc nannies (eg night nannies and babysitting) are self employed.

You could just look for parttime nannies and explain its not always going to be sole care.

There is a useful board on mumsnet where you can ask questions about setting this up, with some expert posters (Mr Anchovy and Nannynick). You can use a payroll company like nannytax to do the calculations and they can help with employment contracts etc.

As an employer you need to deduct tax and NI if applicable (my mothers help doesn't earn enough to pay tax or NI so I don't currently need to bother with this but will need to when she goes to 3 full days) and give them holiday pay, sick pay etc.

mandasand Thu 30-Aug-12 19:54:27

That sounds a great arrangement, chutney.

Though it's agreed that I'll be taking the greater part of parental leave, for a number of convenient reasons, DH is seriously looking at shifting down to a four-day week and/or working a day from home. I love the idea of him being really hands on with the day-to-day childcare from the start rather than just able to be around at weekends (it's a 12-hour round trip to and from work for him at the mo so he wouldn't see much of them on workdays). He is an ex-academic so understands completely the pressure/drive that comes with the territory and is v. supportive, already talking about taking days off when I have my conferences etc in maternity leave. Now, if I can just get my boss on side ... smile

mandasand Thu 30-Aug-12 19:56:39

Thanks so much ceeveebee - that's a bit clearer, and I'm grateful for the point towards the thread specifically on this topic. I'll look it up!

MavisG Thu 30-Aug-12 20:16:15

One other possibly helpful point is, if you're planning to breastfeed & express for when you're not there, get a double electric pump - Ameda's is brilliant, can use with batteries or mains, do both sides at same time.

mandasand Thu 30-Aug-12 21:11:42

Oh my word, the mere idea of breastfeeding at the mo is a lot to get my head around (I don't have any kids at the mo!) but two boobs on the go at once! I will, I think, feel like superwoman if I can manage that! Thanks for the tip Mavis!

Wigeon Thu 30-Aug-12 22:21:46

I saw your thread in Active Convos, and although I should say I don't have twins, I have had two babies (at separate times) and your post made me shock I'm afraid.

I totally get that you both want and need to continue your career. That's great, but I think you have very unrealistic ideas about what life with a small baby is like - or in your case, two small babies.

Starting to do some work after month 1 or 2 (even a tiny amount): I think this is bonkers! When both my babies were 4-8 weeks old, I was exhausted. Not only was I recovering from the birth (and in both cases, I had completely normal pregnancies, textbook vaginal deliveries with no intervention or any health problems afterwards), but every single night I was woken up every 2-3 hours to feed the babies, with no chance of "catching up" at weekends, or at any other time. Sometimes you are awake for 2 hours in the night because the baby just won't get back to sleep, or because it's just done another poo, or because it's feeding for 40 minutes, then burping, then won't go back to sleep for another 30 minutes.

Babies are relentless, and relentless 24 hours a day. Every single day. I am an educated person (Cambridge degree) with a professional career, and during both mat leaves I found that sometimes I literally couldn't string a sentence together. Partly due to tiredness, partly due to babies just being all-consuming. There is no way I would have wanted or been able to do any kind of paid work.

By months 3-4, in some ways the tiredness is worse, because you now have 3-4 months cumulative broken sleep. Even if (and it's a big if, as you have gathered) you have dream babies who go in a lovely routine, you will still have broken sleep. I am actually still pretty tired quite a lot of the time even though my children are now 4yrs and 15 months, in consistent routines and sleeping through the night: they wake up every day at 6:30am without fail, the baby sometimes wakes up in the night (teeth, temperature, just letting out a wail and going back to sleep).

On the routine issue: are you prepared to let your babies cry? To go with what you want, rather than what they want? Some parents are ok with this, some aren't. It can be very emotional leaving your own crying baby, even if you think you are doing it for the right reasons (and personally, I think that under 6 months is too early to be doing any sort of formal routine).

I think a lot hangs on whether both your babies are going to slot into a perfect routine as quickly as possible. Even if they do, I'm really not sure if you'd be able to predict regular times when you could, uninterrupted, get on with some paid work. Most new mothers (including me!) find that they can hardly manage to have a shower, do the washing up and get to the supermarket, let alone write a research report on top of that.

You haven't mentioned if you are planning on breastfeeding? I think that's relevant to some of the issues you are thinking about.

In terms of your boss, I understand you don't want to freak him out, but as a boss, I would potentially feel far more let down if a team member assured me that she would be working a bit a month after her babies were born, going to conferences soon after that etc, but then found that she couldn't commit to that once they actually did arrive.

Sorry for such a long post - I'm afraid I just read your OP and thought it sounded rather naive.

This all sounds like doom and gloom, but I absolutely think that it would be possible to resume work, but after a few (a good few!) months, rather than trying to pretend that your life really hasn't changed that much. And you will never ever get these early days with your babies back, whereas you will be able to resume your career after a few months.

Best of luck with the rest of your pregnancy and with deciding about what's best for you - it's great that you are thinking about these issues in advance and I'm sure you can come up with some possible solutions for your family.

In the words of Jones from Dads Army-don't panic don't panic!
Twins are hard but totally doable I knew feck all about babies but my dts have made it to 7 mo without too much bother. Have had a bit of help from the mil and dm who take them for the occasional day and night but honestly have just done most of it alone (I know this sounds like a stealth boast maybe it is a little but just trying to show you that it can be done and imo pretty well as long as you keep calm). I'm looking forward to returning to work in a bit and my childcare is family so i know I am very lucky there. But please just keep calm don't worry and enjoy your babies. i know I've not gone back to work yet but I'm sure it'll be fine. congratulations!

ceeveebee Thu 30-Aug-12 22:55:55

Wigeon - I have 9.5 month old twins and I don't think that it would be unrealistic to have returned to work on a very part time basis after about 12 weeks. I appreciate everyones experiences are different but with outside help and with a supportive partner it would definately be possible.

Thanks to employing a mothers help for 12 hours a week and having a DH who is perfectly capable of caring for them on weekend mornings, I have probably 8 hours a week where I have free time to go to the gym, go running, do a bit of freelance accountancy work etc. I also have 2-3 free hours a day when I am alone when they nap, and also they are asleep at 7pm each night until the next morning and this has been the case since 12 weeks old. So I could fit in 6-10 hours a week of work if I chose to.

chutneypig Fri 31-Aug-12 09:38:44

Wigeon - every mother of twins has to come to terms with leaving babies crying. It's not a matter of choice, it's a matter of logistics.

My two also slept through from 12 weeks, not all will, of course, but it's not that unusual. And we had no family nearby, just me and DH. With extra support, IME, it would be a plausible route to suggest to your boss. I know what you mean about momentum.

mandasand Fri 31-Aug-12 09:52:27

Thanks for sharing your perspective on these issues, Wigeon. I do expect it to be challenging and I don't expect babies to fall into a predictable pattern; rather I'm keen to build a support system which enables me, after a couple of months, to take a small, but increasing, amount of time each week to return to my research (I have a study at home: it's just me, books and the laptop).

Chutney's experience of finding that, even after the twins were born, she did want to carry on with her academic career as she had anticipated, rather than give it up for full-time motherhood as some predicted is one I've seen replicated amongst many other female academics. And ceeveebee's experience in another field also back's up that this can work.

I'm taking a long view and working with DH to come up with ways in which he and I can share childcare to some extent and draw on the support and expertise of another caregiver. Practicalities aside, I think there's something positive for the whole family about parents finding a balance between parenting and other enriching and satisfying aspects of life; I think this is fundamentally sensible rather than it having to be an either / or choice. I've known a few deeply unhappy full-time mothers, not only in the first years when I don't doubt that it can be as difficult as you describe but also in later years as they struggle to find an identity and function in the workplace commensurate with their previous professional lives. These examples too have been instructive.

I don't think your post was all doom and gloom; I appreciate you sharing your valuable experience as a mother, which I lack. But I am also becoming increasing confident in my and my DH's ability to make this work.

Wigeon Fri 31-Aug-12 11:30:11

Glad this is all helpful, mandasand.

I absolutely support you in your decision to continue working and not to be a full-time mother if that's what you want. I myself am currently working in a professional job 3 days a week (with an hour's commute each way), and happy with that decision for me and my family, but I went back to work when each of mine were 12 months. I think the main point of my post is: give yourself a bit of a chance to recover (physically and mentally), to dedicate yourself to your babies, and to learn to be a mother, before rushing back to work as soon as you possibly can.

I think starting any sort of work in months 1 - 2 is just bonkers if you have the choice not to, and even months 3-4 will still very hard work. (Disclaimer: I am fully aware that some people feel they have no choice but to return as soon as possible due to finances). I think you can still achieve the balance between motherhood and career for all the positve reasons you have stated, but after the early months.

It's great that this is a joint conversation with your DH - I am astounded at the number of professional women I know (and I hear about on here) for whom childcare, and balancing work and their children, appears to be soley their responsibility. Amongst people I know, this isn't to do with finances. But that's a separate rant!

chutneypig - even mothers of singletons do have to leave babies crying! I think what I wanted to do is to suggest to the OP that getting babies in a routine might not be as straightforward as she thinks or as the books / The Book suggest.

kalidasa Fri 31-Aug-12 12:56:54

mandasand I am not expecting twins (just one in there) but I am also an academic and I really understand where you are coming from. I'm editing a big multi-authored book at the moment with various deadlines for the contributors and for me running between now and next Easter. The baby is due at the end of November so I am hoping that I will be able to get some editing work done in the first few months after the baby is born, even though I won't officially return to work until April or May. (Though fortunately I am sole editor so if things do get delayed I won't be letting anyone else down.)

I do think that academics tend to have a different relationship to their work than people in many other professions (not always in a healthy way!). I have been off sick for most of the pregnancy so far as I have been very ill with hyperemesis and to be honest I have found being unable to work (I couldn't even work at home for many months as was too ill) absolutely devastating to my sense of self and sense of identity. It is really important to me that I know I will be able to get some work done fairly soon after the baby is born, and my DP (also an academic) supports me in that.

Anyway, just wanted to say that you're not alone. (You're not in London are you? I don't know any other pregnant academics and would love to!)

mandasand Fri 31-Aug-12 13:44:23

Lovely to hear from you kalidasa smile But very sorry to hear you've not had an easy time of it. Any better now you're approaching the third trimester?

As it happens I work for a London university but live in Oxford. Because it's an externally funded research project my boss and I have a fairly loose relationship with the university, but much stronger working relationships with various London-based cultural organisations. Before this summer I used to come down to London 1-2 days per week; this summer I've been bunkered in at home trying (failing) to get a book to press in time for REF publication, and from next week it's back to business (for three months at least, till I'm too big to travel!)

Yes, it is really helpful to know other female academics who've gone through this and even better to go through it together! I have two academic friends who are in the same boat (with singleton pregnancies). There's no doubt that those on permanent contracts are in a much better and safer position, from my vantage point at least! We could try for a coffee sometime?

Absolutely hear you on the relationship with work and, although I've tried not to go on about it (as it's no doubt weird-sounding to non-academics and, as you say, unhealthy!), my sense of self is tightly bound up with my research. There are various, historic reasons for this, and I'm far from unhappy with the situation. To be perfectly honest, although the project of bringing up two healthy, happy, well-adjusted children is of supreme importance to me, the idea of devoting myself to that project 24/7 for a very long time isn't, I think, for me. I think I will need, as well as want, to retain some vestiges of the really rich and satisfying aspects of my pre-children work life and I'm so grateful to my DH for supporting me in that.

Ha, I too am hoping to make some good progress with two edited volumes (and a short monograph!) during maternity leave! I was hoping with one of them to share the work out amongst a team of co-editors but it's looking likely that I'll sole edit both (which, though more labour-intensive, is easier in some ways!)

Wigeon Fri 31-Aug-12 14:45:51

I think you two have just started BoffinMumsnet! smile. Actually, there really is a poster called BoffinMum - I'm sure she's a academic (and a mum!) and I'm sure she would have some interesting things to say about combining motherhood and academia - you could private-message her?

My DH grew up in Oxford, had a glittering undergrad / post-grad / PhD path at two London universities, and was an academic for a couple of years, before deciding that it was all too depressing, not for him, retraining as a secondary teacher and currently working in a lovely school in a job he loves. So I have some idea about what you mean from our brief glimpse into that world.

Don't go feeling too indebted to your DH about how wonderfully supportive he is in your carrying on working in the long-term - he will be the parent of these children too. When did you ever hear a man say "I'm so grateful to my wife for letting me carry on my work now we have children, she's so fantastically supportive, I want to keep working because my job is really important to me and I want to keep that part of my identity even though I'm now a father"?! <gets self off hobby horse> <gets self over to Feminism and Women's Rights topics>

mandasand Fri 31-Aug-12 14:53:40

Ha, good point, Wigeon! Perhaps it's not so much gratitude to my DH, to whom these things come naturally, as a more general sense of gratitude that he is who he is - quite different from the many, less supportive men I have either been in relationships with or observe as the DPs and DHs of women I know!

kalidasa Fri 31-Aug-12 15:02:11

Yes, I am really lucky to have a permanent job (almost certainly - strictly speaking haven't passed probation yet, but have ticked all the boxes for it). But my dept is very male-dominated and a bit old school. My HoD is kind but clueless and just can't seem to get over his astonishment that I am up the duff! Every time I encounter him you can see him trying to remember not to stare at the bump, but totally failing! The admin team are better. There are almost no senior women with children in my dept, and although there are three or four women academics now in our thirties - in fact I think I'm the youngest at 32 - none of the others have had a baby yet. I think we were all waiting to see who jumped first! It just feels like quite a different work environment compared to friends in other sorts of jobs where the fact you might start a family is taken more for granted.

I did start a thread about having children as an academic a year or so ago before we tried, and got some really good advice, will see if I can find it.

Coffee at some point would be great if I can make it. (I have quite bad SPD now after so long in bed so my mobility is really limited.) But I am supposed to be working the first half of next term before my maternity leave begins.

I actually lived in Oxford twice (was an undergraduate there, and then later a JRF) but last left in 2009.

kalidasa Fri 31-Aug-12 15:36:27

mandasand I found the thread I started last year. Some quite interesting stuff on it, and plenty of women who say they got a bit of work done at home during maternity leave:

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/employment_issues/1245181-question-for-academics-about-starting-a-family/AllOnOnePage

mandasand Fri 31-Aug-12 15:58:47

Thanks, kalidasa - that's great and I look forward to having a read through. Good of you to share this resource!

I don't envy you your all-male department … oh dear! Looks like you are going to be the trend-setter which isn't always an unenviable position, but others will thank you for it!

Sorry to hear about your SPD, but let me know if that eases once you're in term-time and I'll let you know my London movements.

We overlapped in Oxford! I was here 2001-2009, then returned immediately in 2010 after an overseas postdoc :-)

toomuchpink Fri 31-Aug-12 21:32:09

Hi there,
Yes, to be strictly in line with the law it appears you do need to employ your nanny rather than have her self-employed. That said, I don't think it is entirely clear cut if, for example, the position is part-time.
We are paying a company to do our tax and pay-roll for us, it is not too expensive, but they do have mixed reviews on the web so maybe I should do it for a couple more months before recommending them.
When it comes to recruiting you could just pay a nanny agency a few hundred pounds, maybe more, and let them do all the hard work.
We advertised on gumtree and did it ourselves. Gumtree appears to be well used by people seeking nannys and seeking posts and we got a lot of responses.

mandasand Sat 01-Sep-12 22:28:27

Thanks for sharing your own experience, toomuchpink. Sounds like it may be worthwhile engaging a company to deal with the nittygritty, tho it would be interesting to see how that works out for you. Gumtree is a good tip - wouldn't have thought of that. Thanks!

Kalidasa, an academic friend who is also expecting is reading (and recommends) the following book: www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?an=evans&bt.x=0&bt.y=0&sts=t&tn=Mama%2C+PhD. It's much cheaper on abe than amazon. I had a good read of your older thread - some really interesting perspectives there. I liked the woman who said something along the lines of 'I was determined to make it work'. I like to think I have some of that kind of drive!

willow3006 Fri 21-Sep-12 19:48:33

Sorry I didn't write earlier! I only just came back across this post again! To answer your 'old' question - I went back full time straight away and employed a very cheap nanny (we couldn't afford the usual nanny rates around here!) - we did give the perk of all school holidays off though as my Dh is a teacher so he looks after them then. They are 10 months now and I don't regret the decision one bit. I'm so much happier back at work and still see the boys loads as I only work 9-5.

mandasand Sat 22-Sep-12 09:23:32

that sounds like a really good arrangement willow! thanks for writing. bet your two love (and will increasingly do as they get older) having dad around in the summers. smile

after ten or so happy years at his company DH is now looking to see if he can get a job closer by so that he can be more present during the week (currently does a 2-hr commute each way, so it's a 12-hour day for him out of the house). I've told my boss now and he's really supportive, so feeling a lot better about possibilities. we've started, tentatively, looking at nannies and nurseries, wondering if a mix of the two might be good. we are a bit shock at the cost of childcare for twins in the south-east though! (another reason DH is looking to move positions, so he might get a raise!)

willow3006 Wed 26-Sep-12 20:41:26

I know what you mean. We're also in the South East and to be honest, I'm literally going back to work for under £200 a month after childcare but need to keep my hand in! It is amazing how you cope though!

mandasand Fri 05-Apr-13 07:00:36

Just briefly checking in to update on how it is all going. I receive so much support on this thread and this kept me going in the later stages of pregnancy.

Our B/G twins were born by c-section a little over seven weeks ago. The first four weeks were quite hard. We spent 11 days in hospital owing to feeding issues (them) and infections (me). We're (formula) feeding three (to four) hourly, one after the other (haven't quite got the hang of tandem feeding yet). At the end of the difficult four-week period I had a lot of bleeding and spent 3 days in hospital for a D&C, and - although I've not quite stopped bleeding - I've been feeling increasingly better in myself since then. My mobility has been slow in coming back. Cycling and jogging are a long way off but I can now walk a good couple of miles a day without too much difficulty. My 'six pack' split badly (currently 4-5 finger-widths): am working on this to give my lower back and hips the support they need.

The thing which has really helped us feel like we are back to some semblance of normality is shift-work with the babies now DH is back at work. I sleep 9pm-2am when DH is 'on duty'. I take over at 2am so he gets five hours sleep before work. We need to tweak this a bit to find some time for him to have 1 or 2 more hours - this should become more possible soon. Currently he is out of the house for 11-12 hours, so there's not much 'overlap time'. He is investigating working-from-home two days per week (as well as applying for jobs closer to home) and we have a nanny starting for a couple of hours a week, moving to two afternoons per week from May if things go well.

Even with the five-hour block of sleep + extra hour or two I'm finding it hard work being sole carer of twins from 2am to 9pm. I can just about get everything done - the nappies, the feeds, the cuddles, the sterlizer, the washing/drying, and the tidying - and some days I even get a chance to have a shower and eat lunch sitting down rather than grabbing bites as I go. But it is fairly relentless and the days and nights rush into each other in a bit of a mad fashion, and more than once I've been in tears when DH has left or arrived back home. So, it's do-able, but I feel hugely ground down, especially as I am not getting much time for other things. As anticiapted, I don't want to be responsible for 85% of childcare and household management, even though I'm notionally on mat. leave. If DH can WFH two days and with the nanny on two afternoons a week I think the balance will be more 65:35 and that feels much more acceptable.

So, am I getting any work done? Well, in the last couple of weeks I've put together a one-day conference for later this year, have been working on a book proposal, and am writing an outline of a chapter - so, yes, I've been doing pockets of work, although tbh these are 'fun' things which are quite easy to manage with half-an-hour here and there, plus the odd chunk of hours at the weekend, but they are not the major or important current projects I need to be focusing on! The proof of the pudding will come when I try to get some real writing done and, for that, I think I need the nanny to start. This should give me 10 hours per week.

I love my babies so much, but the bits of work I've done so far have made me feel like the 'old me' hasn't totally been obliterated by the new mantle of motherhood. I find it refreshing and invigorating to return to the desk, and a better mummy for it, too.

thegirlinthesassyspace Wed 16-Oct-13 15:09:12

/Hi - I just read this as I recently returned to work, and i wanted to see if I'd missed any advice from twin mummies about doing this. I returned to work at 10 months in, they are now 11 months old. I have loved every moment of my last 4 weeks back at work. Its so nice. I also work for a university but 2 out of the 3 days are at home. My girls go to nursery and its wonderful to have the peaCEFUL house again. ON my days with the babies now I really appreciate the time I have with them. Before during maternity leave I was often in the 'keep your head down' mode, one day at a time. And that's with 2 babies who slept through at week 11. I would aim for a routine early on, and be CONSISTENT with everything you decide to do. Use white noise machine if you want. I don't know if it helped with mine, but having it in place made me feel prepared. Better to have than not have kind of thing.
Ok, now the downside of returning to work - babies have been ill almost every week with picking stuff up at nursery. Most have been innocuous 24 hour things. But latest is a pain - very contagious hand and mouth disease. Obviously they both got it, and it can't be treated just has to go its natural course which takes abotu 7-10 days. So...I guess getting a nanny would be better for you in this case (nurseries are sicky breeding grounds!)...but then you'll have to forfeit the peaceful house....decisions decisions...
I have just realised I won't be able to go to work at all this week, and am a bit sad to miss it (i can't believe I said that - I am SAD to miss work!!!) but, every thing has a silver lining...in this instance, the babies have had to have extremely long naps to recover...and I have used that time to get on top of some of the deadlines that are looming. Working 3 days a week tends to make things feel like you're doing 5 days very quickly!! IYKWIM!
Sorry for mammoth reply, its definitely doable and I even decided to go back to work early, as like you I realised that work was my goal and a bit of me I was missing/would miss.
One last thing - I recently read a book which is very tongue in cheek called "French Children don't Throw Food" the woman who writes it has twins and its a nice entertaining book, which gives you an alternative viewpoint on what people call controlled crying....
Ok, I better go, babies woken up from nap! lots to do, good luck with your pregnancy....oh ps. definitely use your KIT days, sounds like you will enjoy them!

thegirlinthesassyspace Wed 16-Oct-13 15:13:59

ps. Mandasand congratulations. I must have missed your lats post. congrats again! well done on organising your conference that is fantastic. Good to get out the house and walking a bit. Like you, I had 4-5 finger gap in the abs. Seems to be okay now. I used to walk 2 miles a day with buggy (Out n About Double nipper buggy great for longer or off road walks). I hope your next few months go well and your nanny works out for you. Keep us posted :-)
xx

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