Mumsnet Talk

BB3: dcda non id girls Sept 2011 (plus ds)
TwelveLeggedWalk: DCDA DD and DS 14.09.11 (PFBs)
Tiggersreturn twin boys (?!) (plus ds age 5)
Wherearemyearplugs twins (plus ds)
Ceeveebee b/g twins 21.11.11, PFBs
minesapintofwine: non-id boys 02/02/2012. dcs 1&2/pfb on good days.
ClaireMarathonFeeder: Boy/girl twins born 08/02/2012, no3&4, dd1 (2001) and dd2 (2004)
rednellie nonID boys 13.03.2012 + DD 03.02.10
Lemele: id boys (plus ds)
Skitoo : DCDA Non ID Boys, 01.04.12 DC 1&2
DreamingofPeace: dcda non id boys, 4.4.12 DC 2&3 (DD Sept 2010)
beyoglu: dcda non id girls 21.4.12
Bigboobsatlast ID twin boys 30.04.12 DC #2&3 (DD Feb 2010)
Scollister mcda girls 3.5.12 plus DD age 4
Twin2makes4 mcda girls plus 2 ds,age 8 & 4

Again, sorry for mistakes, doing this from my phone!

Settle in ladies

Today, without forethought or planning, I gave the dts banana. They wolfed it down, DT1 had hold of the spoon and cried for more repeatedly. What have I done.... They're only 18.5 weeks, I've bought nothing ready, pureed nothing ready... I just needed to get them through til bathtime but didn't actually think they'd eat anything, maybe just taste it. Oh blimey, how to make my life harder. Only half a small banana between them both and i don't believe it'll make them sleep better but there's always the hope .

Another full family day out today. We're doing better now, kind of, on a good day.
In awe of your hosting ceegee, I couldn't cope!! Have you seen any of the Olympics?

Oh boo to loss of routine Claire, I'm impressed you do so well by yourself.

And me too, hang on by a fingernail, takes a tiny thing to cause utter bedlam, multiple children crying and a very stressed mother in this household. I just find screaming babies so stressful...

Rubbish, did the thread wrong, the stats list should have gone in the message bit....

If anyone feels like starting another to do it right, feel free

Hi dreaming, just marking my place

Feck it dream, looks good to me

Maybe your DTs are going to settle right down now - maybe solids are the key!

I ran into another twin mum in town tonight, hers were born the week after mine but almost exactly same gestational age. Tiny when born, and still way littler than the girls... but they sleep from 9pm till 5am. When? When??? Ladies, will ya sort it out already? I have high hopes as DT1 has started taking a 180ml feed at 3pm or 6pm so I think she's now taking enough calories in the day... dunno about DT2 but she tends to wake when her sister wakes so suspect she would sleep through the night by now anyway...

Thank you for starting a new thread dream after I filled the old one

Looks fine to me too

I wrote a whole post for the other thread but it was quite whingy. Have a DH with a leg in plaster and feeling a bit fed up about that though he is a bigger help than he should be. Credit credit to the mnetter with the DH with the broken neck you are awesome! Was talking to you all too.

But then I found this thread....awwwww....here we go again!

(wonder what will happen next )

Marking my place.

Holiday = lovely.
Nightimes = awful
DD = back to biting BIG TIME. Dh and I are both sporting various bruises and the twins both have swollen noses from various attacks. Am putting it down to her life being turned upside down. She keeps asking if we can go home and where her toys are

But we're having fun, the beach is the best place for a toddler - no one tells you to be quieter or not spill things. Also DD LOVES BBQ's we've discovered so she's eating really well. Small victories.

mines - one massive benefit of a wooden floor is that later on when you're toilet training you wont have a pee smelling carpet It's worth the bruises now, I promise!

Well hello there shiny new thread . Thanks Dream. Don't worry about the stats, they can always be reposted periodically to help us brain drained ones!!

Dream, can't believe your little men gulped down the banana, maybe it's the solution to their restlessness? I've been thinking about it and prob need to do some reading up but am going to try and hold off until we get back from holiday mid September.

Red, glad your having a good holiday but sorry to hear of the other problems. How longs the holiday, when do you return to the UK?

Mines, what happened to DH, how did he do that? Crickey, can understand your feelings, I'd be lost without my DH, when I'm losing it he restores normality.

Hope everyone has had good weekends, we're just firing up the BBQ for last time before weather turns miserable this week.

Whispering it as hoping it's not really happening but we might be experiencing a little bit of that 4 month sleep regression . Last couple of nights we've had a few wakings, with last night being DT1 which is unheard of. Hoping that they've just been spooked for some reason and that we're not going to see lots of disturbed sleep. To eliminate it being them clashing heads, they've gone in to separate cots tonight for the first time - my little boys are getting bigger....

skitoo stupid thing really. He did it at rugby about 2 weeks ago and only decided to go to hospital on Friday. Turns out he's got a very very small minor break (so he says ). He's not too happy as has been walking and working with it and now hard to do either. Well he can't work at all as he is a forklift driver and they have no other duties as he is not allowed in factory without steel toe caps. He has been doing so much for me though Ive barely noticed the difference to the help with dts. I am worried though as he really shouldn't be doing as much and have told him countless times to let me do it (him just being home this week to occupy dts whilst I clean etc will be marvelous!) We're both just worried about the money as only gets smp thats a whole other whinge thread but it's the main thing thats the bother. I can manage on my own as I always do anyway in the day and am more than willing to do bathtime alone as long as he's 'just there' but I need money to pay the bills fund my lavish lifestyle. Hurumph!

red where are you on holibobs too? I'm off to Cornwall in a few weeks looking forward to that. We went to Aberystwyth today a good drive from here but met another twin mum who's dt girls are the same age. The thing is..on comparison to mine they were tiny but I've never mentiones here that folk keep commenting on my weightydts. They are big for their age but I don't worry as I can't starve them! Me and dh are tallish and dh is on the hefty side but in a good way (he's a big bloke!) one man told me they were robust but followed it up with flatteries so that was ok. They will lose it when they get about I'm sure these babies have endless supplies of energy already. Anyway...she seemed like a nice lady. Love meeting other twin mums (beyou read your post too).

Is anyone watching the closing ceremony? I've ended up on mumsnet so....

Can't believe I am posting this but can I join?
DTrips are 3 days old. Born at 34 +1 weeks, weighing 5lb, 5lb 9 1/2 oz and 4lb 10 1/2oz.
Not quite sure how to describe them on here, DD1, DS2, DD2 or just DT 1,2 and 3
All in normal cots, currently being tube fed until they start showing signs of wanting to bf. No health issues identified as yet, but all a bit sicky if fed too quickly.

I am off home tomorrow am, but back daily. Live 45mins from Hosp, so until I can drive it is going to be tough, as they are likely to be here for another 2-3 weeks.

To be honest main stress point at the mo is DS1, had been fab at sleeping, but since I have been in hospital for 2 weeks he has gradually got worse at settling at night and is up at crack of dawn. Hoping that me being at home will help, as until then I was primary putter to bed as DH worked away all week, so only saw him at weekends.

* bailey* welcome and congratulations! Triplets! Wow you are so so so (x3 see what I did there??) lucky. I would call them Dtrip 1, 2 and 3. Glad to hear they are well and that you are too . They are really great weights too aren't they?

Is your dh going to continue to work away or will he be home to help or will you have other help? I'm a teeny bit jealous dts get so much attention but you'll be like the main attraction/superstar forever!

Please ignore all whinging I just did I love having more than one baby at the same time and with an older dc you will already know what to do. How old is your ds? Hopefully he'll settle again.

Will be looking out for your triplet tales...

Congrats baileys, so glad your triplets arrived safe and sound. What a joy! i can't wait to hear how you get on. Hope DS settles too, my DD got a bit unsettled with sleep too, but she's fine now.

We're on holiday in Tofino - which is the westernmost bit on Vancouver Island. There's nothing between us and Japan basically! It's a big surfer dude hang out, but we're mostly picking up rocks to look at crabs, eating nice food and getting too much sun and sea air. Lovely. We rented a cabin and it's great.

Back to the UK this week. Can't believe it. Am scared and excited all at once. We're being picked up by a VW transporter taxi thing and heading straight down to my folks in West Wales. I can not wait.

skitto - sleep regression is the pits. I've just come to accept it now. We do everything 'right', they have a wonderful daytime routine and naps, they have had a bedtime routine since birth and we don't turn lights on etc etc at night, but they still wake up at least 3 times between 7pm and 6am. I've just sort of accepted it now, but I do get a bit angry in the middle of the night. Although, I realised how touchy I was about it the other day when my mate who had a singleton around the same time said about him sleeping through. I think I may have growled...

mines sorry about your DH . Bloody rugby, it's not good for you sport. I keep trying to tell people that.

Congratulations baileys!

Hooray, welcome baileys!! I vote dtrip 1,2&3. Glad they're all doing well. I hope they're home with you ASAP. Is your sister going to be helping??

Can mine be having the sleep regression from their already rubbish sleeping?? DT1 was up more times than I can count last night and he just will not settle and still doesn't self settle. DT2 is up twice now too. I feel sick and headachey with tiredness already.

Someone tell me to get my sh1t together will you? I as really down/desperate feeling last night... my DH and mum were at the Olympics Sat and Sun while I looked after the terrible twosome, including doing the 6.30pm feed and settle to bed. Saturday was OK but Sunday was bad - they were both crying together and I was doing the thing of starting to comfort one only to have the other start again etc etc. DH came in just as I had got DT1 to stop crying and was calming DT2 so not doing too badly but it just took me back to the early days when they used to cry and cry and I didn't know what to do. DH took the girls last night and I should have had a decent night's sleep but was so hot and I have the start of a sore throat, and then this morning the girls have been fretful (because of the heat I guess, plus not being swaddled as it's too hot) and I've been up and down a couple of times. DH off to work looking like a wreck.

It's all OK but just... is it ever going to get much easier? It has been better with their night feed times getting more regular etc and we've been coping. But it only takes a bit of hot weather or a minor illness and we're almost broken again. DH did the night tonight to let me watch the Olympics closing ceremony but once again I went to bed early in the hope of getting some sleep only to lie awake counting the months till I can go back to work. At the moment I can't imagine enjoying anything other than getting away from the wee ones. God that sounds so bad but it's true, I've been trying not to think about it for the last 16 weeks but I bloody hate this, I so hope that it gets better once when they are older.

beyoglu, it is fun once their up and moving, DD is better company every day (& I loved her company anyway)

But I'm with you. I'm suffering. I'm exhausted. I'm sick of screaming babies, I'm sick of refusal to settle at night, I'm sick of endless, endless night wakings. I'm being horrible to Dh- because he can't read my mind half the time. I've had enough too and am desperate for it to get a bit easier... DT1 is by far and away the most difficult baby of any of my three, day and night.

BUgger, wrote a whole post on the other trhead without noticing it was full! Here it is anyway!
ceeveebee I am in awe! WE've only had guests about twice since our DTs were born, once including some lovely childless friends of ours whom we managed to burn dinner so spectacularly for that we ahd to go out and get fish'n'chips, and then the Dts woke approximately 700 times that night, right next to their spare room...

And yes to Claire re the raspberries with food. I am trying an 'I am Not Amused' face, but I don't think it's working I'm also not very good at it when they start having 'conversations'.

I have 2 nights on my own this week, having had DH out doing sport all weekend. I feel I have earnt major payback the following week!

Missing the Olympics so much, have even had to do some parenting today

Well done Dream on starting this one and massive congratulations bailey, amazing weights, amazing they're straight into normal cots, just amazing all round, you must be over the moon!! Have some for being a superstar already!

And a to beyolou. It does get easier, then it gets harder, then it gets more fun, then it gets different... it just keeps changing to be honest and it's all about trying to keep up and enjoy the moments you can, and not kill yourself about wishing away the bits that NOBODY could enjoy. Of which, frankly, with twins there are many.

We went out for dinner with friends on Friday and ever since DS has woken for a night feed at 3am (I swear he KNEW I'd had wine and would struggle to get up!), while DD has thrown in some 1.30-2.20 partying jsut for good measure. THe difference now is that I can pop them down with some entertaining toys, or stick one in the jumparoo and one in the walker, and gibber on the sofa with a cup of strong coffee for a few minutes. Stay strong, even if they don't magically start sleeping 7-7 you'll get there!

Hi all, back to usual name now Olympics are over. Will finally get my house back tomorrow when DM goes (but she helps so she's ok!). Tip of having guests - make them bring their own bedding and towels, make them camp in the garden, and they have to make my breakfast for me!! We went to the hockey, didn't take DTs as the inlaws were here so easier to leave them - sadly though we were away for 6 hours and I really missed them- how will I cope when I go back to work in 7 weeks!!!

Welcome baileys I am in awe!! Fantastic weights and hope you get to take them home soon. Do you have help lined up?

Am a bit worried about DTD again - she took ages to roll, she can sit up well but won't bear weight on her legs when I try to stand her up - she's 9mo tomorrow - do you think this is worrying or just a bit behind? That's the problem with twins, can't help comparing them

Also wondered whether those with older DTs had any tips re keeping them safe now they are mobile and a bit big for bouncy chairs -any such thing as a toddle chair with a harness? I am thinking of when I do Bathtime, as soon as I put one down they roll onto the stone floor!! Or at bedtime the other night when DTS did a poo explosion and DTD vomited almost simultaneously - I didn't want to put either in cot in that mess so ended up putting one on a towel on the floor between my legs while dealing with the other. Maybe I should get a small playpen in the nursery?

Dream how were DTs after their banana? Are you going to wean now? Might make all the difference to nights <fingers crossed>

Red enjoy your holidays and the move back home - are you going to stay in Wales for a while before moving to kew?

Have a good day all xx

Oh forgot to mention my bad mother moment - on cycling race weekend when we had 20 people staying, DHs cousin made me a bacon and egg sarnie which I ate while holding DTD on my knee - didn't realise the egg was runny and when I bit into it the yolk ran all over her head and onto her face.. And I said, 'quick someone get a babywipe camera'!!!! In front of 20 people!

Hello - thanks for the new thread Dream, and the stats change all the time so no worries where they are! at least we have some sort of record we can all refer to when we can't remember the age of our own other peopls DTs and other DCs.

Welcome Baileys, glad you have found us. How are the Dtrips? What help have you got at home? Still can't believe the weights - you did amazingly well.

CVB - so did some one take a photo of the aggy moment?! post it on here please 20 people? Bloody hell thats a big ask even if you do get some help and your brekky cooked for you. Don't worry about DTD , my limited knowledge is that they don't worry about weight bearing until at least 1 year - but I know what you mean about comparing them - I do it all the time. I was wathcing them breath the other day to make sure DT1 was not breathless!!

Beyoglu, don't feel bad. IT IS TOUGH! and we all have moments days / weeks when we really don't know our arses from our elbows and doubt everything we do. But you are doing everything you need to to care for your DTs and it will get easier I hope - I find it hard too and always feel guilty about lack of attention to either of them - just left for large chunks of the day

So Dream - how did the4 bannana go down? have you given more food? Let us know!

Good luck Red - things will settle down againb when you are at your mums I am sure.

Things are a bit tough here at the moment. Night times have takena step backwards thanks to a horrible horrible cough in DT1. I have taken him to the GP twice and they want to see him again next week - he does not have a temp and is still feeding fairly well so GP not particularly worried, and they said it may be reflux???? Does this give a horrible mucous-y cough?? Anyway, prescribed Gaviscon so will see if this helps. He is not too bad during the day but in the night and first thing in the morning he coughs / cries / screams / sobs / throws up for about 30 mins - its heart breaking Needless to say I am up and down and rocking and consoling a lot in the night. I am knackered.

The DTs can't be doing too badly though as they are HUGE! Must get them weighed properly, but going by our scales they are approx. 16lb which puts them around the 95th percentile I think!!!! Not bad for 36 week-ers. So something is going right I guess.

Another reason why things are tough is that my Dsis has really upset me. She lives abroad but is currently here in the UK for 5 weeks (only 1 week left). I have seen her ONCE and thats only because I did a 4 hour round trip with the DTs to see her. She is now staying less than an hour away but does not seem to want to come and see me and apparently there is no room in the house they are staying in for us AND she knows I am worried about DT1 and he has been to the Docs a few times and she does not even ask how he is. REALLY PISSES ME OFF (sorry). She just lives in a another world of money and live in maids / nannies, but no excuse for being thoughtless if you ask me. Sorry, had to get that off my chest. It just really upsets me that she can't be arsed to see me or my DCs but has plenty of time to see her DHs family and friends. OK, rant over.

Sorry to those I have missed, got to fly - parents coming and I need to at least make an attempt to sort the house out at least put dirty nappies in bin

Hi all,

I feel a bit better today- DT1 was still up at 9:30, 11:40, 1, 3, 5:30 for the day but asleep in between, albeit in my bed from 3 but miles better than the previous night.... Interesting about the cough bigboobs, DT1 has coughed most of his life, at his 6 week check they queried croup, hv always mentions it, it sounds very chesty but he's mostly well with it. More reflux here too maybe..?? And that waking pattern is his norm. I hope your DT improves soon, its horrible and worrying when they're not great.

I can't help but compare mine strength wise. DT1 can wriggle round 180 degrees, on his tummy he can lift his head really high and lift his legs up, I'm sure he probably has the strength to roll but he isn't yet. DT2 can only very, very briefly lift his head from his tummy and can't move at all like DT1... Neither gets half enough tummy time though, I confess...

The boys are loving grub. Today I made them baby porridge with ebm not water to add calories. Two hugely heaped dessert spoons of porridge with 1.5oz of ebm, on their fourth ever offering of food, and they wolfed the lot and DT2, who I didn't think looked ready for weaning, cried so much for more I made another bowl up for him . So its fair to say they're enjoying it. And ?? coincidence or not, but the last two nights when I've been braver and just fed them however much they've wanted (ie loads) DT1 has settled in the evening miles better. He actually settled at 9:30 last night without a feed- that's a first. still had all the bloody others though

bigboobs that'd rile me so much about your dsis. I'd expect a lot more effort from her/ mine. mines fairly useless at coming, but to be fair does work a lot of weekends/ nights atm but is at least useful when she's here. Her loss missing out on your beautiful children. I bet your scales are over estimating BTW, mine did when I tried that with DD once and then had her weighed. My boys are 14lb 15 and 14lb 3 so DT2 finally catching up- I'd not had them weighed for half their lives when i took them

Still impressed at the hosting ceevee and i miss my DD if a grandparent takes her out for the morning!! Love the egg story

Forgotten the rest, will remember soon as I've posted no doubt

<waves at everyone else>
Oh, and for baileys, hope your trio as doing well

I don't know how you lot have the energy (or the time) to read and post on here as you do! Oh and welcome baileys, fab weights, thinking of you as your little ones are in hospital - always going to be a difficult time, but sounds like they're doing well

Seems quite a lot of us have been struggling lately beyoglu. As someone said, it seems that with twins (& triplets, I presume!) you're just about managing and things seem ok but even the smallest things seem to tip you over the edge

I've been on the verge of tears a lot this last week and just have NO energy, physical or mental, but can't really place why. Just from being busy I guess, and all the lack of sleep building up, up, up. Can't help thinking forward to when they're two/three rather more frequently than is normal, I'm sure

Oh and we've regressed gone back to feeds every 3 hours during the night, sometimes even closer together, and waking up more frequently than that after 5am. I tend to just feed them when they wake and put them back in their cot now; I was putting off their feeding til 4/5am with use of dummies and co-sleeping but I felt like I was sleeping worse. Thing is now they seem to wake more - and you always examine the data and see how you can improve things, don't you?!

<Gives up thinking/talking and passes the round>

Baileys - huge congrats and how great are those weights, all bigger than my 2 were!! Having been through the special care bit myself, it's tough but they are in great hands and ours were home before we knew it. Funny to think back to those days when we tube fed them just 7ml of milk!

Beyoglu, sorry you're having a tough time, be assured that we all have those days/weeks. I had a complete meltdown last week and had the same thoughts, about it being easier to go back to work but since then I've had some much better days with them. It is bl*ody hard work and think others have summed it up, in that it does get easier but then you go through another sh*tty period so it gets harder again, it just constantly changes. That's my limited experience so far....

Mines that sucks, how long will he be in plaster for? And how big are your little porkers then? I love how chubby mine are now seen as they were scrawny little rats when they were born.

Red, holiday sounds awesome, am v.jealous! DH and I have been lucky enough to travel quite a bit since we've been together but obviously won't be indulging in that passion for quite a while now eh! Enjoy the rest of your break and hope the journey home is good .

Dream, how were the boys after their big feed up? Have you given them any more?

Twelve, hope the solo nights have/go ok. I've still not been brave enough to tackle one on my own. Am hoping that when they can sit up on their own then the whole nighttime routine will be easier and DH might be able to resume his normal work commitments.

CVB, can't believe you had all those guests. Please share the eggy pic!

Bigboobs hope the gaviscon helps, poor little one. Sorry that your Dsis is adding to your problems, families are just a nightmare aren't they. My DB hasn't even been to see the boys yet and he lives less than 2 hours away. I am so p*ssed about it but it's been too long now, so he can bugger off if he's planning a visit any time soon.

Please don't stone me but the sleep regression wasn't that. It appears to have been disturbance from clashing of heads, which putting them in separate cots seems to have sorted. Hope I don't regret writing that.

x-posts dreaming, massive fingers crossed for weaning being a huge help for sleep!!

God took me so long to finish that post that I missed those fromDream and Lemele.

lemele, I'm already feeding DT1 again so reading/ posting then (/now!). I'm always feeding!!! So clearly missing the 9:30 feed was a one off but I'll settle for easier settling in the evening if that lasts- for now anyway.

And yes to meltdowns, frequently. I think of how lovely it'll be when they're 2 ish quite a lot too. I can't help picturing them running round and,playing with DD.

Were yours 33 weekers skitoo? A bit of baby chub is delicious . I'm glad my scrawny twin 2 has filled out a bit. And he was 5lb 10 to begin with so not tiny!

twelve, the thought of solo nights with my three gives me the heebie jeebies . Brownie points indeed. And I'm glad you said it about lots of bits noone can enjoy. Very true I think.

Hiya.DTrips are doing well, on 3hrly tube feeding and they are starting to show signs of rooting when awake. There has even been a quiet muttering of rooming in, but don't expect talk of taking them home for another week or so.
I feel like a milking cow as I am spending so much time attached to a pump, but levels are slowly getting there.
DS1 is driving me slightly potty as he has decided to take my recent absence to signal time for rebellion. Bed times are a battle and everything is met with a resolute NO. Trying to do rapid return 5d post csection is not to be recommended!
I have also discovered how much I need my independence. Mum is staying to sort DS out, and I know she is trying her best but I could scream. Don't know how I am going to cope when all the babies are home and I am even more sleep deprived than currently. I feel bad but just want to explode

Bailey that's all so amazing, I'm blown away by how well you're all doing. And pumping too! Mine were in for 7 weeks and honestly,I've just blotted out the milk machine bits! I don't want to be the voice of s

Stupid phone!

Voice of doom sorry, but I did find I ran in adrenaline for a while then kind of crashed through exhaustion, and with triplets plus older dc I can't even begin to imagine how tired you'll get. Just watch out for it and be kind to yourself really, but you sound so sorted I'm sure you'll be fine!

twelve I hear you! Trying to do the absolute minimum to help the section recovery, but it is sooo hard as I am used to being independent.

lemele I was wondering the same thing (how everyone has the time and energy...mainly the time) Im finding it hard to keep up! baileys it's good advice to take as much help as possible especially with an older dc but that's also haelpful to you as you know about babies! I can't speak for anyone else but I recovered really really quick from a c-section much quicker than I though I would.

beyou everyone here feels exactly the same as you and I find it reassuring to know that! It is very very hard and exhausting. I have been looking forward to going back to work since the dts were born and I still am...only another 3 months to go! As well as babies being so tiring and such hard work I miss adult conversation, focusing on something else other than trying to get a baby to sleep, and having a bit of structure (i.e, working on certain days, HAVE to leave house by this time etc). It helps I'm likely to be going back part time. I know I'll be complaining about work within the week though!

ceevee I would get some more babysitting in before you return to work so as to get used to some time without them, and them you!

twelve you always have some good advice loved the bit about there are good bits and bad bits (or something! Thats wrong I know)

DH having check up on Friday to see how leg is.

Have to go dt1 awake after half a sodding hour!

wrote a post and its bloody disappeared!
Dream, 24 hours in Gavison for DT1 and definitely less screaming / sobbing / coughing (hope I have not jinxed it). Not better by any means, but some improvement. I will persevere with the Gavison and let you know what happens. Last night (when screaming is worse) there was hardly any and he did not wake until 4.45am!!! (usually about 1 am, after milk at bed at about 8.30pm) and then he slet till 8am!! Unheard of - we are always up at about 6.30am. Probably a one off and just a coincidence.... we shall see. Trying not to get my hopes up for tonight and failing

Baileys I think we would all say accept an help you are offered BUT it is hard sharing your home and family - and those that offer help don't always deliver IME...eg holding a baby while you slave in the kitchen cookng the 'helper' dinner . Just be as honest as you can about the help you need and what is not helpful.

How are you feeling today Beyoglu? Managed to get some good rest? I have had a really hard few days as been exhausted - but today is a good day after a good nights sleep - makes all the difference doesn't it.

Thanks for support re DSis and good to hear I am not the only one to feel this way I just re-read a letter I wrote to her son (my nephew), as if it had come from my DD - saying she can't wait to meet his (he is a baby), get to know him and spend lots of time with him while they are here for the summer etc etc...she has seen him once Really does make me so sad, and angry to be honest. Its like two fingers up to me and my lovely lovely DCs that she can't be arsed to get to know Oh well.

Minesa - I know what you mean about a routine and adult company - but I think I would still not go back to work I could afford not too, but DCs would still go to nursery!! so only a lottery win will do it!!! I am definitely going back to work and I know from going back after DD that I dreaded it but after a couple of weeks I likes being back and having some more structure to my life - and a break from babies if I am honest.

CVB are you going back to work and did you manage to get PT hours??

Hello to every one else BB3, Clare, Twin2, Twelve, Skitoo and Lemele and anyone else I have missed. I have managed to make time to post but only in a real rush so sorry if I have missed things.

Ok, stupid question time: how do you all manage lunch when you're out of the house with the Dts alone? I've only done it a couple of times and would feed them solids in their buggy, then get myself a sandwich or something to eat on the move. But now they're 11mnths now so should sit at high chairs - no bother I thought, we'll go to ikea on out next trip to the city because I know they can handle ikea high chairs. But then I realises it's self service and I'd have a double buggy... Same issue with M&s or anywhere else I might be brave enough to go in... Anyone done it with success?

Hello on phone on train so will remember as much as possible!

Hey baileys - people in your house is hard, my advice is talk to them each morning about what you need help with so that they are clear about what you want them to do and then it's just biting your Tongue when they inevitably get under your feet! The babies are doing so well already - just amazing!

Dream yay for feeding, hopefully it will help settle them

Lol t egg yolk I would have done the same!
Re weigh bearing, will she stand against the sofa or something supporting herself? I wouldnt worrytoo much now but would mention it to hv/dr so they keep an eye on it

Red - happy holidays - ds had a horrible biting phase about 6 months ago now it is pinching - I look like a heroin addict on my arms!

Beyoglu - it gets so much easier I can't tell you! The girls are most of the time fairly easy to look after (they'll be 11 months on Monday) they play together happily and an leave them pottering around the room while I get bits done, certain things are hard like the hour before bed when they are both whinging tired. And they do fight which is funny tiresome (Ayse is currently sporting a nice tooth shaped tattoo on her shoulder from Edith-may!) but they are starting to talk and parrot and walk along with their walkers and it's just much more enjoyable. Night times are awful but hoping it's just the weather!

Re lunch - ask someone to help you at self service - first couple of times you feel a bit strange but no worse that dropping everything and being stressed! I try of weather is nice to grab lunch and go find a park I sit them on the floor and spread my legs round them so they can't crawl off and feed them.

<<hugs>> to everyone having a hard time xx

3 more weeks of work for me!!

Hi all
Sadly no one took a picture of eggy moment, what a wasted opportunity!
twelve lunch is my specialised subject!! I have eaten out with them lots of times usually with friends but often on my own., I tend to go to the same few places as I know I can manage it! Places like Starbucks etc I just ask them to bring the food over for me. Or I park the pram where I can see it and not too far away and then go for the food. Or sometimes I buy sandwiches and then put in bottom of buggy/in handbag rather than on a tray. People are always pretty willing to help.
I always try to feed them less sloppy food when out and about too - things like cheese or tuna sandwiches, sticks of cucumber etc rather than liquid food. And always have my grobag cloth high chairs with me in case the chairs are not suitable

Oh and to whoever asked, yes I am going back to work 3 days a week from 1 October

HI CeeVee you're making me feel like a right hermit! Right, that's my mission for the next couple of weeks!

Sorry! I just like to get out and about!! Re outdoor eating I have found it hard to feed both on the floor as DTD sonetimes topple over. I use my cloth high chairs to tie them to a park bench, it's hilarious but does attract a lot of twin chat from strangers!

I am ROFLing at the idea of twins strapped to a park bench! Have never tried those fabric high chair things, will see if anyone as one I can borrow I think!

Just a very quick post but regarding self service. I know it's not possible in Ikea but I tend to get as many little non spill things as I can for me eg, pack of overpriced sandwiches, yoghurt, crisps, drink in bottle with lid. Then I push them all under the hood of the pushchair and eat mine whilst feeding the dts puree/ milk in pushchair. When they can sit at a cafe highchair without me panicking they'll fall out then Ill park the double pushchair at a table in sight of the highchairs whilst I go get them In this time someone will have offered their help though this has not happened once yet! Maybe Im trying to make it look too easy when I should be letting it all rip in the middle of m and s cafe! Is this what you meant? If you get a tray I would def ask one of the staff to carry it or just park pushchair near till if you can then return to till for tray. By which time cafe member will have offered help. Recurring pattern!

(ok so not that quick a post)....

Oh I do pay for the stuff under the hood but last week I did go into a shop and found a bottle of shampoo under there from another shop

Oh yeah if you get a tray you have to make sure you can push it along those slidy things all the way to till. Hmm the sheer logistics of pushchairs! (I don't think it's soley a double buggy problem if anything I have extra hood space to hide my stolen goods).

Yeah that is annoying isn't it, mines - where they have a place for your tray right up until the end of the food and then inexplicably there is a gap between that and the place where you pay, even if they're only a foot or two away...

Thanks for all the support guys Lemele, I think about the future a lot too! Spend the time at night just after they are fed, thinking about how it will be in say a year's time, or even will they be better at 6 months... my HV said by 8 months it will all look a lot easier and I do know someone with 8 month twins who says the same so I'm hanging in there for that time! At least by then I can look forward to the 1 year mark...

My mother is here just now, leaving tomorrow and can't come a day too soon. She takes offence at any suggestion that she might not be doing things perfectly but still she keeps doing stuff like keeping the babies awake with loud talking to them when I'm about to put them down for a nap, "tidying up" the changing area by moving stuff so I can't find it when I go to change them... she took them out for a walk on Tuesday and DT2 started crying so she fed her the old bottle she'd taken out 2 hours before, so the feed schedule was messed up and DT2 got a bottle that wasn't safe. I know what she's like so I say nothing unless it's going to cause a problem with the girls but even then that's enough to really piss her off. So now she's gone off upstairs to do who knows what because she's taken the hump because - get this - I offered to make her a cup of tea before the girls went to sleep, and I was stupid enough to say that I wanted to do it now before they sleep so now she's all offended because I'm implying that she's an imposition. I'm not! You need to plan your day round the girls, that's how it works. Either make a cup of tea now to enjoy in their nap, or make it when they wake up and you won't get time to drink it. In either case don't make it when they're asleep because they'll wake up (they nap in the kitchen because she has the effing telly on effing antiques programmes from 9am till 6pm.)

I want to try them napping upstairs in their cots, because it's dark up there and we have a white noise machine. But I'm slightly worried that they might start confusing night and day, and once I put DT1 up there and she woke in a bad mood, so I would like to just give it a go and then see. But I can't even do that because she'll go on and on about how I tried to put them down upstairs for their naps but I failed, it didn't work, I was wrong to think it would work etc etc. God I wish my mother in law was here.

Beyoglu it really does get easier. At 3 months I thought my life was over as was so tired, dreading them waking up and really was not enjoying it. Now at 9 months I can honestly say they are a pleasure and I want to spend as much time with them as possible, they are so cute when the start playing with each other and you start getting more sleep

It's a pain having 'help' sometimes. But you must remember they are your babies and it's your house so you might need to be a bit more forceful eg tell her to turn tv off if they usually nap in the living room. And maybe you need to tell her every time she does something that isn't right rather than waiting for a big thing?

Re napping upstairs - I never did it with mine until about 6 months old because they outgrew the travel cot downstairs. But i now give them mornjng nap upstairs and it was a revelation - they sleep so much better. (they went down at 10am and still not a peep at 1140!!), and there hasn't been any day/night confusion so far, they still settle well at night. (Lunchtime nap is always in pram for us as I like to go out)

ceeveebee, it's the small things that get her back up! Once when she was emptying out their bath for me I asked her to put the plug back in in case I forget and she went in a slight huff with me for about half an hour! Ho hum annoying grannies, there's one in every family right?

It's comforting to hear how different it is for you at 9 months... most of the time now I feel like I'm not enjoying it exactly, but I do like them being around, and we're together enough to be able to just get the weeks under our belts till they're 6 months. Just if random other things would stop happening! Today is 4 month imms followed by too-hot weather - hoping they will settle tonight but don't have many hopes, we have an aircon in their room but the exhaust goes out the window so you have to leave it open and therefore light. I dread this kind of blooming weather. Still, deep breath, soon it will be September and then they will hit the 5 month mark etc etc... maybe they will sleep all of tomorrow like they did at their first imms...

beyoglu, sending you much sympathy. Parents 'helping' can the worst thing ever. My MIL is banned from doing anything at all in our house - it's just easier that way, and once we agreed on that she's been able to enjoy the kids more and I can enjoy having her here more. My Mum does do annoying things and her and DH sometimes clashed as the kitchen is both of their domains so when his knives went in a different drawer there were looks, BUT she takes criticism and I can just tell her to eff off if she's being an idiot. I think you should tell your Mum - you're a family in your own right and boss of your own house.

We put the DT's to nap in their cot upstairs. Much much better naps. That's how they learnt to self settle. And it's made no difference to them settling at nights, in fact I'd say they settle better.

mines, what a great description of how to do dining out with twins. We should try and compile more tips like that. My own personal area of speciality is how to get three children out of a house with stairs and into a car, out of car and into a buggy. Oh, and also I'm very good now at restraining a 2 year old mid tantrum in a sling whilst also pushing twins to sleep in a buggy. Go me!

Right, we're flying out of Vancouver tonight. Wish us luck - 10 hour flight followed by 4 hour drive down to Wales here we come. We WILL be that family on the plane. Give me strength.

(And BB3 thanks for the solidarity. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one with an attack dog of a toddler! The doctor actually asked me what the marks on the twins noses were...felt very sheepish)

red good luck with the flight am sure it will be better than expected. Lol at you being 'that' family we never arrive incospicuously anymore either. Oh and welcome back to Wales (it's pissed down all day btw ).

beyou I thought my mum was bad! At least she will be quiet when babies are sleeping but she won't listen to constructive critiscism either. Good that you have a nice mil though mine is ok I suppose. Don't worry about her giving dt a made up bottle though. Was it freshly made 2 hours before eg sterilised and then made up but not given for 2 hours? If so I have to say I've known a few people to do this if they are out for the day and if I'm being honest VERY BAD MOTHER ALERT I've also done it if I know I'm likely to be somewhere where dts will start yelling and I won't have the time or space to take apart bottle add cartons, add Gaviscon (not now) and shake. Or even if it was one dt had started but not finished 2 hours before I wouldn't be concerned if it was a rare accident. We often split the last feed of day around bathtime but it isn't left as long as 2 hours. Do you make feeds in advance anyway and store in fridge? It isn't recommended but loads do it I couldn't not as long as used within 24 hours (they always are). I think your mum means well but needs a little guidance as other posters say -your home your rules!

Whilst I'm admitting to being a bad mum I am sat here feeling very guilty as have gone down the <whispers and ducks for cover> cc route for daytime naps.

Ohmmm. .

Please hear me out! Rod for my own back dts always slept in bouncers and swings during day but have outgw
rown them now so no option but to nap in cot (not keen on pushchair napping due to small space in house have to fold down every time I come home). Anyway possibly due to the vibrating/rocking effect of bouncers plus GP 'cwtching' to sleep even though I discouraged it due to rod for own back making they have been hard work. At first i would rock dt1 to sleep leaving dt2 to whinge a little and then when he built up I would rock him and their naps became longer. But they became harder and harder to put down until dt2 wouldn't even go down just wanted to be held. Today I started a nap routine shorter version of bedtime but without bath. First nap worked well on dt2 but dt1 was not having it. And neither am I theyre over 6 months now so I did the cc thing (I have been thinking of it long and hard) and he fell asleep after 20 mins they slept for an hour. Second nap was awful as dt1 wouldn't settle. I know it works and they will get there I just have to persist as can't stop it now. I could never have done it before now (too young imo anyway) but now I have willpower of steel, steel I tell you!

Pretty sure I'm going to get kicked off mn for all these bad mother confessions or maybe just this thread......

I am officially rubbish at keeping up with this thread - sorry.

Red, good luck with flight home! Just remember there's help when you get home .

Mine nap in cots during day and sleep really well there, just rubbish everywhere else - cant win them all eh! They've never been confused with day/night routines, as not in sleepbags and room isn't completely dark. And completely agree with Red in that it's helped them sleep better at night.

Mines, don't think you'll be shot for working on a routine for 2 babies! I've only just worked out that DT2 is happy and pretty good at self settling but he likes to have a little bit of a shout/winge for 4-5 mins to get him there.

Nice to hear all the eating out scenarios, can't say we've done it yet, something else I must brave up to do.

Baileys sounds like you are all doing fantastic. I remember spending hours in the pumping rooms in SCBU but sounds like the little ones will get there real soon.

Waves to everyone else.

Hello everyone

Just marking my place following the unexpected appearance of Douglas (5lb 2oz) and Carolyn (4lb 7oz) by EMCS on 10 August at 34+4.

That's me just home. Babies are still in SCBU but both now in cribs; Carolyn is still being tube fed and progressing to 3hourly feeds, and Douglas is on to bottles every 3hours now Like baileys I feel a bit like a milking machine and supply is still playing catch up following my traumatic CS!

I'll no doubt be back for advice soon, and to catch up with everyone else

kazar welcome and congratulations!

Congratulations Kazar, great names too!

Mines seriously, don't sweat it. Formula gets made in 24 batches here and has done for some time. Babies get put down to nap and if they're grizzling, then I go and do something else for a few minutes and they tend to settle quite quickly.

Interestingly how I respond to them seems to make very little difference to how they respond to me IYSWIM. DD has always been more into cuddles and being held, regardless of whether she's happy or sad. DS went through a phase of being very content in his bouncer unless he was actually suffering with reflux, then a really high-needs phase of hating being put down anywhere, then most recently he's been happy on his own as long as he can explore crawling and cruising - hates being put in a cot on his own - and just in the past week or so has got more back into cuddles and crawls over for affection. It seems to be just their natures and their own phases, regardless. So basically if I have to put one of them down for 15 minutes to feed the other then so be it, it's not intentional CC, but it has the same effect!

Welcome kazar!

red - thinking of you on your trip...

mines - I personally hate CC with babies but they are your babies, you are the parent, so you do what you need to do to survive want!

mines, fair dos if it gets the wee ones off to sleep I guess the CC is better in the long run... maybe they don't like it but they sure don't like being tired and cranky at the end of the day either.

I'm still working on naps. Tried putting them down in carricots in darkened living room with detuned radio as white noise. They napped as usual for about 45 mins then woke and I ran in and settled them with dummies from time to time till they'd been in there for an hour and a half. They still get their best sleeps in the pram though which is making me want to keep the carricots a while longer - our HV was saying it wouldn't do any harm to have the girls in their buggy seats now to help them with their sitting up - but actually that's shite, as they're both holding their heads up now when on their tummies - but I do want to ditch the carricots as DT2 is getting a bit bored in there I think. But, another but, I saw someone out yesterday with a mountain buggy with twins sleeping in the buggy seats! (Had to go over and say hello and try to get her to join our Facebook twins club - can't believe Croydon doesn't already have a proper twins club!) So maybe it is time. Other projects include bathing in the actual bathroom (did DT1 in there yesterday, DT2 today) and weaning off the swaddling - but we seem to be having a mini 4 month sleep regression so waiting a wee while to see if they get settled again before trying that out.

Thankyou folks though I would get a row . Tbh it's something I've decided to do and though I know the majority of mums are against I've decided to go with my own personal feelings on this one. Not to say it isn't hard it's been very hard but dt1 has started settling in cot on 2nd day, dt2 is much tougher which really does make you think it's all worth it but I think if I gave up now I would feel more guilty as if it was all for nothing iyswim. Anyway you don't want to hear about this!

beyou my dts sleep in buggy seats though I've never had carrycots they slept fully reclined in them until 6 months then when I put them upright they still fall asleep! It's never been for long but at least they sleep just hate going into their cots in the day arrggghhhh.

Also beyou our bathroom is tiny you couldn't swing a hamster in it never mind a cat. And it's downstairs. We used to take baby bath into living room and do it all there. Now we do this.

First we bought www.kiddisave.co.uk/store/product/1823/Safety-1st-Swivel-Baby-Bath-Seat-Pastel/?gclid=COmi2q3x87ECFc0mtAod30wACQ.

Your 2 may be too young but if you think they hold heads up well could try it.

Theres no room for 2 babies on floor of my bathroom (on mats) (I'm not joking here-teeny tine bathroom). So we still do everything else in living room undressing/drying and dressing but dh carries one into bathroom whilst I carry other then we bathe them together. They love it!! One day I bath them whilst he makes up bottles and tidies up then I call him and we take both into living room then he will feed both in car seats in their room whilst I do dinner etc it speeds up process and we alternate days. On the days I'm alone at bedtime (about twice a week) I pop one baby on mat on floor in bathroom (even then it's tight have to squeeze around door!) where he isn't likely to drown then I bring other baby in from living room (mat on floor). Then I pop both in bath at the end take one out pop on bathroom floor mat take one baby into living room go back collect other baby from bathroom take car seats up take babies up feed bed. During this ridiculous process dt1 cries all the time through overtired crankiness having not slept all day! Last night though in between tea and bath I propped them both up on cushions so they wouldn't fall (they can sit unaided for a short time only) and they played happily together dt1 was much happier at bedtime! They love being bathed together too though dt2 is a bit of a splasher! Aww twins.......

Hello twin mums, been quite bad at kerping up with the thread, we've sodnt some time with our families back home where it's also cooler, which was a relief. Exceptnow we have another heatwave grrr

Weaning is progressing steadily and lunch has now been totally replaced by solids, babies eating very happily and with lots of mess! Mostly purees still, they are not too keen on lumps still.

The good thing is normally after lunch they're so full, that they struggle to kerp their eyes open!

mines I know cc is a controversial subject and dummies, fruitshoots and sausage rolls but sometimes it works well. It does work with some babies/toddlers. There is no "one size fits all" method for getting them to sleep, (happy to be proven wrong if anyone finds a miracle solution!), so do you what you think works for you. I think with twins we're all allowed shortcuts.

rednellie hope you a good flight, you sound so organised I'm sure everyone will be impressed with your family!

Need to go, pizzas are here!

Can I join you ladies? I have Id twin boys coming up to ten months they are my only DC(s)
Currently fast asleep at last

Hello buddy and welcome! There's space for everyone here!

We all like to have a moan and provide support toone another!

Just had a terrible night with one or the other waking up every couple of hours, I ferl like I've hardly had any sleep. Is it tge heat? Or the total lack of a routine at the moment? Being on holiday messed it all up!

<currently hugging a large mug of strong coffee>

I just had my best night ever.

I think it was needed before I lost the plot though, after three nights where I just couldn't get DT1 to sleep. At all. One night it was 5am before i got him down, the night before last Dh did a looong walk with him at 3am. So, not entirely undeserved. He only woke twice last night, and was back asleep within an hour both times. Huge relief. His personal best- though I bet he doesn't repeat it til he's about 5... And DT2 slept through. As in 7:30-7:15 .

Welcome yeahbuddy

Rubbish, baby kick off, back later

mines, that bathroom routine sounds just like ours except I'm doing it in the mornings while they're still civil - leave one in the bedroom looking at the cot mobile while the other one gets washed. I'm dreading the time when the one in the bedroom cries and I have to rush up with a wet baby. Maybe I could just stick one on the hall carpet while they're not yet mobile...

Anyway I'm mostly on here to brag because the small people appear to love their cots for daytime naps! We just put them up there (we are finally free of visitors today, and my OH took the day off) and swaddled them, put the wave sound on and half closed the window so it's dark but not as dark as at night. And they just went down! No endless shoogling/dummy replacing or anything.

I'm hoping this is the start of a new routine. I'm full of ideas like at 9 weeks when they started stretching their feeds and I came up with the current routine. Right so - at the moment they nap craply and they sleep 13 hours a night (and they sleep well at night, although they still do a 3am feed). They get up at 7.50 (I go and wake them up because it's Radio 4's Thought for the Day, boring sorry I mean because it's getting too late) have about 3 rubbish catnaps a day, better if they're on the move, and then by about 6 they're in a crap mood and we put them to bed at 7 after last feed at half 6. My new plan would be to get them up at about 7 or so, have 3 proper naps a day in the house (or ideally maybe 2 in the house and one in the buggy) and then put them to bed at about 8 rather than 7, hopefully without the whole arsenic hour thing going on. That would mean DH could work later (I know, lucky him). It also might mean we could stretch out the feeds during the day a little to like 3h 15 minutes, which would suit the girls better as they're not really that hungry at the 3h mark any more but they're not ready to go to a 4h daytime schedule. But best of all, if they nap properly that means they'll not be horrendous at the end of the day! And I can throw away that effing twin carrier... it was great to be able to use it when they were smaller but now they're about a stone each and they don't even like it very much. How many times have I watched Pointless at 5.15 while pacing the floor holding my back, like some bizarre rerun of the early labour?

oh DreamingOfPeace (I'll give you your full title because this is momentous!) congratulations! Just saw your post as I cross posted.

Wow, that's so cool that things are going better for both of them.

beyoglu, tbh I think he was just exhausted after only sleeping 8-9 hours out of 24 for 3 days straight. Little tike. I'd say one flukey good night is highly unlikely to mean much, but there's always the killer, hope . Now I am unable to get him to sleep again. He's been up since 6:45, its 15:15, he's had 2 10min catnaps. Gah. He really is my most difficult baby of my three, by far and away!

Good your routine is fitting into place. <dreams of 3 hour feeds and cot napping babies> . DT2 will nap if put in his cot. DT1 would rather burn in hell than sleep in his, ever... Hmm. I am very jealous, sounds like you'll have lovely happy settled babies (are you listening DT1?!)

Equally minesa I also think you do what you have to. Cc is not for me. However Dh is talking about it as we are having such trouble with DT1. Fingers crossed he turns over a new leaf soon and I hope its working in your house with your more stubborn twin!

Thats great dreaming hope its not a fluke!

I am really struggling at the moment, the excessive heat + broken nights are killing me. We hardly go out as just too hot for the twins, but it makes keeping them happy so hard . I am constantly bending to pick up/ put down and my back is so sore that I actually struggle to reach in the cot. I am scared to wake upone day and find I can barely move... Anyone know any exercises I could do? I have raken sone ibuprofen but pain hasn't shifted.

Sorry for the moan, I'm really in a foul mood..

claire moan away we all understand. I had a bad back a few weeks ago I have suffered on and off for years but I found it hardest with the dts tbh as had no choice but to carry on like you probably find. I struggled with picking them up and especially out of the cot but I tried to avoid things like carrying them in the car seat and putting pushchair in and out of boot too much. I would say just do what you have to and avoid as much as possible. Instead of picking them up when crying I would pull faces or give them a toy to distract them ( I do this usually anyway). I used an Ibuprofen gel too but it wasn't very effective maybe something like deep heat? Is it your lower back? A work colleague showed me a good exercise is to stand in a doorway and push hands hard on top of frame so you are fully stretched out and the pressure on your hands will transfer to your back easing pain for a little bit. Just rest as much as poss I know how hard it is though! How hot is it there now?

dream thought we hadn't heard from you for a while you were too busy doing the baby jig or sleeping! I am certain that this is a new beginning for you but it's tense wondering isn't it? Good luck tonight x

beyou I am jealous of your dts settling in their cots for naps. We're on day 2 1/2 of cc and it's been a little better but they do disturb each other so until they both get the hang it's a little bit of a problem...

For those of that have had older dc's I'm really interested to know if you find dts harder and if so in which respects? and are they ever easier than one? I suppose it's due to the amount of people who say that twins must be hard etc even those that have had 3 or more dc's.

I see we've moved.

My stats are dcda boys aug 2011 and the ds is right.

Just received a dr's letter for 8-12 month developmental review. Has anyone had one of these. It was dated 3 days before their birthday and arrived 7 days after it. Who thinks second class post really takes 10 days....

We are sort of on holiday doing day trips (dh's idea) which is proving as predicted rather stressful. All the worst bits without the good ones. Oh well at least it'll stop him ever doing it again.

Other than that not much to report.

Congratulations Bailey. I'm in awe of triplets.

claire, the lifting and lugging is a killer isn't it? You poor thing. Is it lower back? If so, I would say lying on your back with knees bent up, feet on the floor, let your knees go gently as far as comfortable to one side, then back to the middle, then as far as comfortable to the other side, then back to the middle. A few in each direction. then same starting position, hug both knees up to chest and relax back down, and finally lying on tummy, push up with arms keeping your hips on the floor. Don't push into pain for any of them. These are just stretches for your back. Any core stability/ pilates type exercises are good for strengthening your core muscles which will help with lower back pain. As will not lugging around babies- ah, problem there for all of us . Back pain is horrible though, I hope it eases off a bit soon, but stretch and strengthen is the general rule (as well as avoiding aggravating factors- impossible I know)

he he minesa, I was genuinely too tired and fed up to post, I hit my new all-time low while trying to take my three to a wedding by myself, near my mums house, and she was there, as was my sister, but she was a bridesmaid, and it was a disaster after 3 hours sleep for me the night before, culminating in tears all round. At the wedding. disaster .

I don't think the twins are easier than my older DC. She is 23 months, and now is more independent every week. She has a new word pretty much every day now, will finally play a bit by herself without needing me, or a grandparent all the time and is lovely, and funny, and interesting. Her and DT2 would be a doddle . If dt1 would lie on his blinking playmat, or sit in his bouncer chair. or do anything (other than be held) for more than 5 mintues it would all be easier, but no, not for me, but dt1 is a very demanding baby!! So him combined with anther baby is bloody hard. I think twins will only become easier than one baby when they're at the age where they're playing together, so will eg go into soft play, a playgroup, or playground together and not want you to go etc. As my eldest still isn't at the age she's safe to do that yet either, its all hard here!!!

Anyway, I'm delaying the expressing and pureeing... best go

Hey all. Wow, lots to chat about again.
Claire totally empathise about back pain, I've had bouts of it too. I try and go to a Pilates studio class one evening a we'd - I don't always manage it, but it really helps. When the back got bad I just refused to do anything unnecessary, so weekend/evenings I made dh do all changing/lifting in and out of buggies and cars. There's nothing you can do when it's just you, but a couple of days off really helps. That and making sure to always switch in you stomach muscles before bending. Seems to go with the job unfortunately though.

Hope for all of you with demanding babies. Yesterday a friend came round for a cup of tea, babies had just had lunch so I put them in the pkaypen with lots of toys for a few mIns. I later realised they basically played happily, with a little bit of interaction from me, for an hour! Was lovely to catch up and couldn't believe how long they were happy basically entertaining themselves - high needs Ds definitely lower needs now he can crawl/pull up and destroy things.

Cc is a funny one. I've never followed and 'rules', I just listen out to their cries and try and work out if it's something I can do something about (hungry/dirty etc), if it's overtiredness (in which case leaving them be, or back rub for dd seems to work) or whether it's Ds chancing his luck! But I've always been if the mind that there's 2 of them, one of me, so if they're both crying at once one of them will just have to wait! It's not formal sleep training, but I imagine anyone with 2 close on age has the same issue, and it means they have learnt to self-settle if I can't get to them (usually!).

Big problem here is milk drinking - as in, they're not! Eh? It's impacting on sleep quite badly, yawn!

thanks for the support and advice ladies, just what I needed! dream the exercises you suggested are the same I used to do at my postnatal class, but I have a rubbish memory and couldn't remember much! Now, my next question is how do I actually find the time to do them? I'd love to get to a pilates class in my dreams but all is shut here in august (Italy virtually goes into hybernation) and we're only here for two weeks in Sept, but there is a pay as you go pilates class and will try and go, courtesy of new aupair!

It is my lower back.

minesa this is predicted to be the hottest week of the year! With today and tomorrow being peak days, temp's in the day are about 34-36! Still mid 20s at night! Our room doesn't go below 30 ! This is probably more info than you needed but I am slightly obsessed at the moment, checking forecast daily hoping to see the bloody temp go down!! this morning at 9am I was sweating already (sorry if tmi)
I have two older dc's who were 3.5 years apart and the twins are much much harder. At least so far...getting up twice as much in the night, not being able to pick them up at the same time, always one crying. You do get some of it with two, but not to the same extent.

twelve you're right about stomach muscles, I keep forgetting them not sure I still have them , but it does make a huge difference.
I hear you with the cc, the first time dd1 went to sleep by herself was one when I put her in the cot while I went to the loo, and decided not to rush as I usually did, and by the time I'd finished she'd gone to sleep, with only a few minutes of crying.. that was a revelation and we never went back. Shame it doesn't work with twins though as when I am dealing woth one the other just seems to get more and more worked up...

kazar congrats and welcome to the thread, hope your babies are doing well and will soon be home with you, and the same to you baileys!

Hello lemele, BB3, tiggersreturn (sorry I ahd to laugh at your holiday description, why is it that dhs always think are easier than they are?? we are not having a holiday this summer, as I anticipated utter chaos! (but we are moving house, so still totally bonkers), and everyone else I might have missed.

ps If you don't hear from me for a while, I have probably melted...

minesa - Yes, twins are harder, but it's hard to compare because one of the reasons they're hard is that I have DS to deal with as well as them. Generally though, even though they are much easier babies than DS was, yes it is harder because of sheer numbers - you can't always hold both, there is often one waiting while the other is fed/changed/bathed etc.

twelve - I was just going to say that that problem (not drinking) is our current problem! Except mine aren't on solids yet so makes it interesting... they're both acting hungryish but not really wanting to drink, and it seems that unless very hungry they will only have a few sucks. DT2 in particular has lately started dong this awful noise a lot which is sort of like a fake cough crossed with gasping. Anyway it's similar to the noise he makes when hungry but he still won't eat! I wonder if its their gums hurting or something - anyone else had this? Anyway yesterday I gave in and gave them some baby rice, which they both wolfed down, and again today, implying that it is the sucking that they don't want to do.

I'm hoping that solids will help the eating/sleeping because it's getting worse again - usual routine is feed every 3 hours day or night, but once we reach 3/4am it's sometimes every hour (alternating babies) until 8am when they play for a bit and then sleep and then we're back to 3-hourly.

lemele, mine are loving their grub, they're 20 weeks tomorrow. I had had no intention of starting so early,(but I also wasn't too fussed about waiting til 6 months) but my evening crying is virtually nil since I started. so its made a huge difference to my stress levels in that way- but added to them as I'm blinking expressing and pureeing now...

twelve I had the not drinking problem with DD from 8.5 months. I never got DD drinking milk since. Hv suggested I don't bother with formula as she would be v unlikely to take it (after trying various beakers etc) . She suggested cows milk and trying smoothies so I used to whizz up milk n banana/ nectarines/ berries etc. DD drank some occasionally. She still drinks no milk. I should try smoothies again... I know st least one of yours is cows milk protein intolerant though aren't they? I even tried nesquik though, I was so keen for her to drink milk. Some babies just aren't 'milky' babies my hv said. That's a good part of why I continued bf though, and i only stopped as I was 16 weeks pg again and it hurt too much- I still feel a bit guilty about that...

Boys super smiley today. Very sweet. DD had her friend round to play today, plus her friends sisters who are 8 & 6. She was being a little toad quite a few times about not sharing her toys and books. So cringey. And i was busy/ distracted with the twins a lot so i think she got away with blue murder. Double cringe. Any tips??

Hi everyone. Really can't believe that my babies are 12 days old now. The past days have been a whirr of expressing and sitting in SCBU trying out bf. Everyone doing well, put on weight at last check and starting to wake up before food is due. 2 of them really seem to have 'got' bf, the littlest one is a bit sleepier but is getting there. Just found out today that they would be happy for them to come home, so am starting rooming in tomorrow to prove that I can maintain their weight with bf alone. Eek excited and terrified in equal measure!

Oh Bailey, you just put the biggest smile on my face. Rooming in us just incredible, congratulations in doing so so well!

Well done baileys, how awesome is that?

claire sorry about your back, have great empathy, I've had a recurrence of a hip problem (old lady that I am) and I know it's because I've been neglecting my stomach muscle exercises.

mines my DD is WAY harder than my twins. As of right now. Who knows what I'll say once they're 2 and she's 4. Probably the other way round. The hardest is having them all at the same time!

Flight was fine - all of them slept for most of it, just bf the twins into submission. Got to Heathrow and got through really quickly as they opened a new passport desk for us (benefits of twins) and our luggage came out first, then the drive down to Wales was painless - they all slept again and I sat in the back with the twins and had lots of fun keeping them giggling whilst DH read every book DD owns. 18 hours door to door. And we managed all our bags/3 car seats/children/buggy etc with no problem. Little travel tip - I used a massive Mummy's Hook on the bar of the buggy to hold the two infant car seats.

Anyway, hello everyone, we're in the same time zone as you all now! And I'm not sure if I'm jet lagged or totally knackered.

Yes bailey I'm chuffed for you, what it must be like with three tiny babies! I cannot imagine! So pleased for you all and v. Impressed with breastfeeding!!

No time for more but hurrah for you baileys super impressed with the bf. Keep it up, and hope rooming in goes well.

And blimey, well done you and dh red

Well done baileys with bf and rooming in.

I got my two home today, 36 week scan should have been yesterday and wasn't expecting them until end August so still a bit surreal (and very scary) to have them home we're not doing quite as well with bf though. Douglas was established on bottles before my milk came in. Think it took longer than normal as I lost a lot of blood during my EMCS and so took a while for my body to replenish fluids and recover enough to start making milk. Carolyn is now on bottles too as I didn't have enough milk for a while but getting there now. They are both trying bf but still mainly topping up with EBM (and occasionally formula if I don't express enough) from bottles. Hopefully now I am there for every meal, the bf will become easier

claire you have my sympathies - one of my knees has started playing up and I am now limping everywhere and struggling to bend it at all.

red well done for surviving the flight. Welcome back to the UK . Hope you all get settled in okay.

Hey Kazar
Wow, an even bigger smile at bringing them home! Congratulations, that is fantastic (and what are you doing posting on here crazy lady?! )

Don't panic about the bf - you can so get there if you want to. Have you bf before or are the DTs your first? Don't stress about it right now, just keep feeding feeding, skin to skin, feeding some more and pumping, and your supply will catch up. And you know what, even if it doesn't, you are still giving loads of fab breast milk and your DH can help with feeds too. It's all good! I went on Domperidone as my supply started dipping so that might be something to bear in mind if you feel it might help. But in the meantime just enjoy having your scrummy twins at home because believe me these early days go by in a BLUR!

Huge congratulations bringing them home kazaar. I agree, expect to do nothing but feed and you'll get there. Good tip about the domperidone twelve .

Now, I am at my wits end with DT1. He will not sleep. Last night from 10:30-1am I tried shush pat, bf (of course!), co sleeping, holding the dummy he still won't take in and patting, just everything I could think of. No joy. So Dh took him in the buggy and it took an hours brisk walking 1-2am to get him asleep and he was up by 4am and repeat. I got I'm asleep by bf plus on his side, back patting and holding dummy in . Took 30 min of that, then he woke after 45 min. He starts flailing round in his cot,gets himself totally worked up so neither me nor Dh could sleep. WTAF do I do??? DT2 slept through again!!

That should say got him asleep finally by a bf, then putting him on his side, patting, holding dummy in- but still only slept 45 minutes.
He's the Incredible Non-Sleeping Baby... . He often has barely any daytime sleep too...

Welcome home Kazaar

baileys - how amazing that they are all doing so well

Red - welcome back to the UK

I will catch up properly later just wanted to mark my place as lost you all again. Dh hearing appointment today! Did the triathlon on Saturday, work finishes in 2 weeks. It's all go and the girls are one NEXT MONTH! GAH!

promise to catch up later x

dream what an absolute nightmare! One of my dts rolls onto his side and sometimes stomach all the time now scared me at first but he prefers it maybe your little tinker will? Otherwise I'm at a loss at what to say to you sorry!

Aw welcome home kazaar brings a tear to my eye when I remember bringing teeny babies home for the first time .

Oops better go I'm being summoned I'll try and post the rest later...

Kazaar - belated congratulations. Hope you're all settling in. You're doing a stirling job and I can honestly say the feeding gets so much easier - I'm only nursing them about 5/6 times a day now and I seem to have a lot more time free. And mine are only 5 months. It whizzes bye.

dream, I reckon you need to get DT1 into a daytime napping routine before he'll start settling at night. Not sure how you'll do that, but maybe a few days/weeks concerted effort? Otherwise it sounds like he's just too tired to go to sleep iyswim. Hard though isn't it? Bloody babies.

mine, don't worry about them turning over - once they start being able to do that they're probably ready to do that iyswim. Mine have always slept on their fronts (I can join you in the bad mothers club!)

I've started solids with the boys, just banana and rice cereal all mushed together. They seem to be loving it, which is great. DT2 is going to be a horribly messy eater if this week is anything to go by, whereas DT1 is very very tidy, eats his little spoonful, very carefully helping me by holding my hand. Ah, they're so cute.

DD is having loads of fun with her granny and is more settled than she has been for weeks - moving house really doesn't seem to suit toddlers. Or my toddler.

red are you enjoying being back in Wales? I bet it's surreal to be here now!

Weaning is going very well here the boys now have 3 pureed meals a day and 4-5 bottles (about 280z) of formula but am trying to get dt2 to take a little more milk as since he's dropped a day bottle he's started waking at 5am again. Had them weighed this week they are now 20lb4 and 20lb3. H/V was really encouraging and is pushing me to give more lumpier foods but we've not had much success with it so far-I'll keep trying though.

Oh and they are finally starting to settle in their cots during the day got a 2 hour pm nap yesterday with hardly any crying (though dt1 kept crying every half hour sleep cycle he resettled within a minute so hopefully that won't continue!) I do wonder why I bothered if we're out so much but for that one or 2 days we're home I really need to not be rocking two babies to sleep!

How is the non-sleeping baby doing dream?

twelve - Good to hear weaning has helped reduce your evening crying. Our weaning is going ok but as yet having no apparent affect. I'm not expressing though, I'm just making the rice with formula milk. As I'm giving them the rice after a normal feed they're not having any less of my milk, and expressing still has a tendancy to depress me ever since DS1 so I just figure maybe the formula will help fill them up! Gave the boys some mushed fruit as well as baby rice today and as always happens with a new flavour, the look on their faces was classic!! I'm just trying to hold off jumping to 3 square meals a day with extra at bedtime

Sounds fab baileys! Despite being glad I had twins not triplets, I'm the teeniest bit jealous of you. Yep, I'm definitely not done yet... must be mad...

Well done red, glad the trip was ok. Go get some rest now!!

Kazar hooray for getting yours home! That sounds a great effort with bf, well done you. I hope it goes well and that you have plenty of milk in no time

I was foolish to complain in front of my twins that sleep was bad. It's now worse. They're barely going for half an hour in bed before stirring now! Thankfully a bit of rocking and replacing of dummies is usually good enough to get them to settle again, but not always. The other night it was something like 8:55pm, 9:15, 9:35, 9:45, then a dream feed at 10:30 ish, then i think but who knows? I can't remember anything these days it was through til 2am then every hour (or more often) since. And the other night they stirred a few times between bed (8:15pm is usually when they're actually asleep) and 10pm but then after I went to bed they were waking every 20 mins or so from 11:15 onwards! Argh!

I think I'm going to try doing what I did before, i.e. putting off feeds for as long as poss to try and discourage them from waking. No idea if it'll work again but I'm getting to be a bit of a walking zombie, eyes hurting from tiredness all day DS1 was sleeping through (more or less) from 5 months dammit!

dream - sympathies for DT1. With this sort of thing I've begun to always think, "at least it's only one of them"! I think my nights would be pretty easy if i only had my DT2 but mustn't think of that! I agree with what red says on naps poss improving things, but appreciate how hard it is to get a baby to sleep if they just don't want to!

Hands up who hates the fact that sleep is a necessity...

Quick flying visit to pass some coffee to Dreaming - although yay to at least ONE of them sleeping. Cast your mind back a few weeks and I bet even that will seem like a miracle!

And talking of miracles, BB3 did I just read that you did a triathlon. Yowsers. Another one coming up to a year on here and I can barely run 500m without looking like I'm going to conk out!

Ooh and Lemele I think you've got someone else - ours are 11 months now so the only link between food and crying here is if I don't keep topping up the piles on their high chairs quickly enough! Little gannets.

Quick update, all put in weight after 36hrs bf exclusively so doctors happy for us to go! Just need Georgina to poo ideally . Roll on this afternoon when the fun really begins

Fantastic news baileys!! well done with the feeding and good luck at home

Oh Baileys, you are marvellous, ebf triplets, have a medal

It's me with minimal/ no evening crying with solids at DD tea time for the boys. And really, really tried with naps for DT1 today but he resisted. In total, over 3 naps, he slept 1hr 15 today . Resorted to pushchair for all three naps too. Last night he was up two hourly as usual but back asleep in between therefore making it a 'good' night. Bloody non sleeping baby...

Congratulations baileys!

Hang on in there dream, you're doing amazing!

We're having a brill week but DT1 has just learned how to scream and she's enjoying using this new talent. Partly my fault as we had a great shrieking session in the kitchen yesterday with me singing "Never Can Say Goodbye" and her joining in with enthusiasm. Oh wee one, are you really the same little person who used to whimper softly against your reflux in the early early days? She could shatter glass now. No I can't complain, they're on really good form this week, turning into proper wee people. Also, it's my OH's night on duty so just need to go up and do the dream feed now and then a good 7 hours of sleepy bliss are aaaall mine...

beyoglu, I love how different mine are and seeing their different characters coming through more and more each week. My DD is just so much fun now too. very jealous of your uninterrupted sleep, enjoy it!

I feel like I'm wading through treacle atm. I'm usually busy settling fretful babies til 9:15pm earliest, then dt1 up by 11,12 latest. And constantly from then. I have no time for myself at all- I'm scrambling to get laundry done/ get in bed from when the boys go down. The ongoing lack of more than 1-2 hours sleep in a row is really getting to me. We were out this morning so short (30 min ish) two naps in the car for DT1, then I took the three out in them buggy so Dh could nap (he isn't lying when he says he needs his sleep- bear and sore head come to mind). DT2 slept for the whole 2 hours, DT1? 20 minutes of course...on top of his rubbish nights. Can he just genuinely not need much sleep?? My dad says he'll be like Margaret thatcher, happily doing well on 4 hours a night when he's grown up. Argh!!!@ poor DD running a temperature and not eaten much at all all day too, so i expect all three will be up tonight. Into the night shift I go!! thinking of you too lemele . Maybe we should pair our DT2's up & have a few good nights each before going back to our own children?! Mine's been up 2-3 x last couple of nights but slept through for 4 in a row before that!! Two of those for me please! My DD started sleeping through from 11 weeks, ebf too. Makes my inability to get DT1 to sleep worse.

Anyway, I'm drivelling on in my sleep deprived/obsessed way again....

Hope your DD still having a lovely time with her granny red and you're revelling in bags of help.

dream I don't konw how you are surviving on such little sleep! You are blimmin superwoman you deserve a torch if it were still available. (bows down and salutes you).

beyou one of mine was really screechy about your dts age and my mother used to encourage him in public arrggghhh! He's stopped since he started teething though and is such a grump these days I miss the shouting!

baileys congrats!!

My twins are starting walking. I'm following them around with a big pile of cushions throwing them wherever I think one's going to fall while holding onto another and then realising it's managed to run away while I was distracted by trying to save DD2 from knocking her head on the book case. One twin is now suddenly appearing at the stairs and is somehow knocking down the baby gate. How is that even possible? Just need some advice about the walking. Am I just being a bit over protective with the cushions, and though I'm starting to use those baby-leash-thingies because they are starting (often failing, but they never cry or seem to get hurt when they fall) to walk outside, is it going to get even more muddled if I use them inside just to keep track of them? I'm coping with a six yr old and a partner out of the country for two weeks- and it's just my luck they're really taking off now.

dream i was thinking it was you I was replying to but somehow read/wrote twelve's name instead. <baby brain> I'm not sure what to think with your DT1. I'm sure the minimum babies are supposed to need a day is still quite a bit amount.. but I guess there are always exceptions... not that that makes you feel better!!

<wave> at goingtoexplode - you new around here? I personally wouldn't bother with the cushions myself, but I guess it depends on how wobbly they are. I've always kept indoors and outdoors separate (my DS was a late walker and would try to fall out of the back door so got into the habit of only having it openable if I was there) although some would say that this is terrible and old-fashioned and so on and so forth

Oh and hooray baileys!

Just dropping into say hi

dream sorry to hear your baby is keeping you up, Ive got one of those too which is why i'm struggling to find time to come on here

I am sorry that I have not been on for a while, i'm having quite a tough time with my two, hope everyone is doing ok, I will try and catch up with everyone soon.

does anyone else suffer with the "witching hour"? mine are really bad between 7/8pm and was just hoping someone had positive stories of when it may end

Don't look at me twin2, its ended for one of mine but not the other... Think solids helped one.

Yawn.

win* yes yes yes to the witching hour. One of mine is still like it at nearly 7 months. Have you tried for an earlier bedtime? A lot of it can be tiredness (definately with mine)

I had mad witching hour and you're all going to hate me because it went away this week when I started putting the girls in their cots for naps, which went like a dream. I now have about 4 hours a day to piss about and watch TV. And they are happy up to about 6.45 - they go to bed at 7. The only downside is that they now wake at 6am instead of 8...

Don't know if anything I did made a difference but I put them upstairs using the same little routine as for nighttime (except no bottle during the day) - completely dark room, swaddle, dummy and white noise.

Hello all!

Witching hour seems to be a common thing. My DD who is 2 and a half still goes a bit doolally from 4 to 6pm.

Enjoying being home, but not really resting that much. My Dad went in last week for his new knee so been driving Mum et al back and forth to the hospital (2 hr round trip) and then DH's parents have been down (for those who've heard me moan before, yes MIL did manage to talk about my nipples/bf/titties at least 20 times in the space of 5 mins). So, not totally relaxing, but nice to have laundry done and food.

Anyway, waves to all. And congrats baileys on your progress!

We had the witching hour too!! It's a lot better now, since about 14 weeks, but we still spend the last hour before bedtime in tears (the twins snd occasionally me too). Putting them to bed earlier hasn't helped either.

Dtg especially who used to be so good at going to sleep on her own in her bouncy chair, playmat or basket, seems to have forgotten all about it . She doesn't take a dummy, or bottle and has stopped sucking her thumb too. How on earth did it all happen???

Gah Claire, DT1 is exactly the same- no dummy, bottle or thumb sucking and can't self settle. ????? possibly maybe cows milk protein intolerance for DT2- he's been having baby porridge (which is made with 55% fortfied milk according to ingredient list) and we've been having loads of wind, puking and screaming til 10pm again, no dairy for me for 2-3 days and only banana etc for him and miles better today. Fx for the end of the witching hour all round, but i think one of mine was hungry and one in pain, so definitely worth checking all possible options twin2

Do they not kick them out after 5 days red? Hope his op went well and really helps him. They can be so good! Laundry done always a bonus, shame its not generally restful though. MIL are sent to try us, you did well not to wallop her with your feeding cushion after all those comments in 5 seconds flat.

I had a lovely, lovely morning swimming with my PFB DD while Dh drove the babies round to make them sleep so I could be away. An expensive option but it was absolutely lashing so buggy would have been grim. We even managed a cafe lunch afterwards. So a fab day for me. DT1 just been up for the first time so I'm diving for shower and bed now.

Meant 5 minutes red but you get my point

Witching hour? I am sure I have called it much worse things in the past few weeks 6.30-7.30 is my nemesis!!!

Twelve - yes oly a sprint so 750k swim in the sea, 20k ride and 5k run but I did it faster than I expected (wanted to get in under 2 hours and managed 1.44 so was really pleased) but have had a week off and now know I need to start training again if I am going to be able to improve my fitness. Am doing another one next year so that I can get round it without feeling like I am going to die!!!

I wouldn't worry about cushions for walking, babies are made to bounce a bit so they will be fine. I think edie is almost ready to walk, she likes to be walked one handed everywhere but is very straight legged! Ayse has just mastered standing up alone (from sitting position) and is just demanding praise for that!

Red - your stories about MIL make me chuckle, I am sure mine does but as she says it in a different language I chose to ignore it!

'Only' a 20k ride and 5k run. <faints>

We used to have the witching hour, I found nudity (them, not me) helped, plus a bath time routine. Or failing that sling and crap tv (me, not them).

twin2 I hope everything is ok? Anything specific you want to chat about here? (chances are one of us will have been there!)

And judging from the multicoloured bruises on both my babies' foreheads as they work on pulling up, I'm definitely not trying to catch them on cushions! (they seem to get their worst injuries in their cots anyhow!)

Hello twin mums - hopefully some of you remember me from the ante-natal thread. Am just starting to emerge from the haze of the first few weeks - my gorgeous boy-girl twins are now five and a half weeks old!

I will try to get to know everyone but wondered whether you might be able to offer some help and advice in the mean time...

We're trying to get a routine in place and during the day we do okay. However, does anyone have suggestions for evening? There seems to be lots of bath/bottle/bed on things I have read but is there an option for lazy mums who don't want to do baths every night? Also, we keep the twins downstairs with us in the evening - when did people start to shift them upstairs after their evening feed? And are there any tips if you don't want to feed the babies to sleep or if feeding to sleep doesn't work? Also, any tips on timings for evening feeds so that the feeds in the middle of the night work ok?

On feeding we have managed (after tongue-tie snip) to get both twins breastfeeding fine but I feel like I only just have enough food for both of them. I do try to express everyday (as this means I can have a feed off/do a quick feed if we're having 'meltdown') but am only getting very small amounts now that both twins are fully breastfed. Is this to be expected? Is there anything I can do to increase supply?

Sorry, lots of questions but any advice appreciated x.

Hey Teds, congratulations!

I'm not an expert on bf by any lengths, so you might be better off asking on the bf boards, but I would say if you are worried about supply just feed, feed, and feed some more! Then pump if you can!

Did they have some bottle feeds, or still do? I found with my two that mixed feeding meant my supply never properly caught up with demand, so I always had to give some formula. That's not an all-bad thing, but if you want to ebf then you need to be aware of it.

I certainly wouldn't worry about evening routines at this stage - we only started baths every night when they were 4-5 months old, and had been home 3 months plus. Prior to that point we used a combination of slings, moses baskets in the living room, and baby attached to boob for evening marathon feed!

I'd just try and take things really gradually - when you notice them starting to stay down for a period of time after a late evening feed (9 or 10ish), then pop them down upstairs. Gradually that time will creep forward, and/or they'll start sleeping more soundly in the couple of hours before that point so you can think about putting them to bed 7 or 8 ish after feeding them, then going back for a dream feed later. I wouldn't waste time trying settle two babies who want to be near you upstairs at the moment, it's not a fun way of spending your evening!

If you want some idea of realistic sleep routines (ignore all the mad 'Drink orange juice at 7.47 precisely' bits) then Gina Ford's twin's book has some useful information then throw away the book
Hope that helps a little!

twin2 sorry to hear you are having a tough time, you are most definitely not alone, come back and moan away when you manage!

red I hear you about mils, I'm facing another week with her when we move as we need the help. I am dreading it already.

BB3 I'm in awe, you are amazing, I am so impressed! How on earth did you find the time to train??

twelve I'm loving your solutions to the withing hour, nudity and crap tv, sorry but I am picturing this woman rocking twins in front of the telly completely naked!!

Welcome Tedds, can't help on routines as I'm crap at them, but we kept them downstairs with us until they were sleeping a few hours in the evening (prob about 12-14 weeks), but then we were sleeping in the spare bedroom downstairs, so they were still pretty close if -when- they woke up -every half an hour-. We then all moved upstairs when they would have a long sleep first thing, adn I think that was about 4-5 weeks later...

We didn't bother with daily baths until they were hmm about 4 months, it was prob every other day before that.

One of mine goes to sleep with a dummy and a bit of rocking (normally a couple of minutes), the other however is a complete different story but she's a nightmare and only goes to sleep either feeding or -with lots of- rocking and pacing the floors.

And what Twelvelegged said ^

waving tobeyoglu and dream hoping your nights are better, baileys and kazar hope you are doing well and enjoying your babies!

Any of you guys seen this btw? linky link

Help!! My two woke up at 11.30, 2am, 5am and 7am!!! We've gone back in time! I am really starting to struggle now

Ooh Claire, sympathies and strong coffee for today. Might they have been woken by something outside? Coming down with a bug? Teeth? Dont give up hope yet!

As for that story of 2 sets of twins within the year.... Jeepers. What that would do to your body, and the lack of sleep, and the expense because they'd have barely grown out of anything like carseats, and the childcare bills and and and... Just wow. I don't think my and dh's relationship in all seriousness would've survived another set so quickly.... Maybe one day <evil cackle>

I know twelveegged that woud kill our relationship to! Actually a few weeks ago I thought I could be pregnant (I'm not ), and the thought that it could have been twins again made me run to the closest pharmacy!!!

Re my twins sleep, I really do not know, I would have thought by 6-7 months sleep would get better not worse! Also the heat has finally come diwn and we're having lovely cool nights and I was really hoping this would make it better, but no luck. Could it be solids? As in they're not having enough milk during the day and want to make up for it at night? They're only having breakfast and lunch still and I make sure to offer bf often.. Dtb had about 8oz of ff at 8pm and still woke up at 11.30 and had a manmoth feed from me!!
On the upside, (cheesyness alert!) they are starting to giggle together a lot, look at each other and just start laughing which is sooo sweet.

Claire that would be a really good night for my DT1. He's killing me. I know he is rubbish at self settling and believes sleep is for wimps. Don't know how to change this though in a way to stop him waking the others.

Two sets of twins in a year.... Jeez. My body is destroyed after one set!!! And the nights. Good luck to them for good sleepers!

Oh dream sorry I know you have it so much worse rhan me and I don't know how you survive. Can I plead old age in my defense??

Hi teds,
I have 18 week old girls.

On evening routines... we take the girls upstairs to their room, give them the last feed, swaddle, put on the wave sounds and put the light out. That's it. I do baths in the morning (and even then only twice a week) because by the evening they're too ratty to be bothered. I plan to move the bath to every evening when they're about 6 months or so and their naps have consolidated (at the moment they are awake for an hour and a half and then sleep for 45 minutes, all through the day).

At about 9 weeks our girls started to go to sleep for the night at about 7pm (I remember rocking them to sleep to The One Show every night!) Then at about 12 weeks, as they were sleeping really consistently in that 7-11pm slot we started putting them upstairs. Routine as above - we'd finish the feed and then move them to the cot while still awake but sleepy, give dummies and go. Often had to go back to DT2 but just replaced dummy and gave her a pat on the tummy if possible, only took her out of the cot if she was really wound up. Nowadays only have to go in once or twice at most, often she just sleeps.

I would say you're right not to feed to sleep - by all means end the day with a feed but then get them down in the cot before they fall asleep. That way when they wake, they're in familiar surroundings, nothing has changed since they fell asleep (some sleep gurus say that's important) but also, if they're calm and sleepy but awake when you put them down they're learning to fall asleep on their own which means they can do that in the night when they wake. Harvey Karp has all the methods of soothing little babies - most effective for us was swaddle and then lie them across your knees and jiggle them. They find it calming for some reason.

We do an 11pm dream feed. We've experimented with waking them up for it or just feeding them as they lie in their cots asleep - they seem to take slightly more if we wake them up. They then sleep till 3, and then till 6, and then they have the morning feed at 7.

Sorry claire, I was so tired and grumpy when I posted before. Sleep deprivation is grim and I agree that yours are giving you terrible nights. I didn't mean to imply it wasn't tough for you. Disappointing, I was hoping my dts would start to settle and sleep better like yours have, as mine were/ are so like yours in the evenings- except they don't (yours or mine!). Come on babies! Bloody DT1 was up every fucking 90 minutes, mostly slept in with me, when i bothered to spend ages settling him in his cot he woke after just under 90 minutes. He got up for the day at 5:30. FFS. Good job he's a lovely cuddly smiley little tike & daddy took him downstairs at 6am for me so i got another 40 minutes in bed .

Hello teds, no daytime routine here ad my dts have to fit in round my 23 month old DD. Bedtime is upstairs, naked energy-burning wriggling (which they LOVE) bath every night, as they get messy now they're weaning plus from DD kissing them/ stroking them with her grimy paws all the time, (& anyway, DD has a bath every night so its not a 'new' event to create for us, though we did it with DD too), bf to sleep and down. One sleeps through sometimes or wakes once. One is The Menace.

I know they don't recommend feeding to sleep but I always have. DD slept through at 10 weeks 5 days and i fed her to sleep til 9 months. she then started going down awake and just sucked her thumb, never cried until Sleep Hell began aged 13 months but that's another story and over now . DT2 is fed to sleep every night and then put down and sleeps all night quite a bit now. So I'd say don't beat yourself up if you do it, I gave myself months of stress worrying about feeding to sleep with DD and the issue never arose. Now DT1 is another kettle of fish altogether <despair emoticon>

Oh, and DT2 not screaming in the evenings now we are both dairy free... I may try adding a bit into my diet again soon to see if its coincidence but loving him being more settled in the evening. He was waking once or twice refluxing etc last week after baby porridge too and slept 8:30-7 last night so fx he continues to be happier, though its a pain. Could it be too much food/ type of food Claire? May be clutching at straws. I'm still feeding mine before solids but they're not 5 months til next week. Hasn't helped DT1 sleep. What a shame cooler nights hasn't helped.

I saw this today, funny after lemeles link

more double twins

Oh wow to the two sets of twins within a year just can't imagine that......

Welcome teds and congrats we didn't start a bedtime routine until 9 weeks (bath then feed then bed) but I think it did help them to sleep longer. Day routine didn't click until 4 months then changed again when they started solids. So don't worry too much as things will comed they will change I honestly think it's best not too get too hung up on routines (I know it's hard not to when everyone else seems to have one and you can't help but think how much easier life would be!) as it'll just happen naturally anyway. I have no idea about bf sorry (but always admire those that bf) I suppose it woould be harder to implement a routine due to evening cluster feeds? Not sure though!

My dts are finally sleeping in day 1 hour in am and at the moment 1 hour pm poss working to longer. They are having less daytime sleep now but do sleep 12 hours at night so that works for me. Except without the 5am feed wake at 6.30 for the day instead of an extra few hours till 8am yawn. DT2 having teething probs at mo too so am back and fore a few times in night. They've been teething forever it's about time they popped through!

Having a cheeky midweek curry and now as been shopping with dts all day got back a bit late so no bath just top and tail. I'm zonked!

Hello to everyone else hope you are feeling better claire and sleeping tonight!

Ted's welcome! You dounf like you're doing great. With befits all about supply and demand so just keep responding to their cured and you'll be fine. Expressing once a day is quite helpful for building a supply up but don't get hung up on amounts.

We're doing ok here. My dad has been amazing since his op, practically bounding around. I however am shattered. Dt2 is back 2 his old trick of crying 4 toe hrs straight in the night. I'm wondering if it's to do with his dodge skin as he's got horrific snappy rash again and a rash all over his body and face. He had nappy rash before that lasted 2 months and a reaction when i changed washing powder. I think coming here with diff water soap etc has really set off. Poor baby.

Hope all other babies are sleeping- I'm looking at you Claire and dream's babies.

.bb3 you're an inspiration.

Apologies for any typos. Got a smart phone and so far it is just succeeded in making me feel dumb.

Omg it's barely legible!

Thanks for all the advice - am reading and digesting! Sorry not to post more but still trying to get the swing of this twin motherhood thing! X

Oh, your poor DT2 rednellie, killer nights. What does the GP say about his rash? Horrible to not be able to instantly fix your babies especially in the sleeping department

My DT1 continues to torture me with not sleeping. He slept for 2 hours as his longest stretch last night and that was from 8:15-10:15 before I'd got into bed so not even helpful. I can occasionally get him back to sleep by shush patting while holding in a dummy (but he won't take a dummy himself) but he generally wakes within 5-10 minutes so i always end up having to feed him back to sleep. And I really don't want him to wake his brother or DD so I'm stuck. Incidentally, DT2 slept 8-7, for about the 5th time .

Oh, chaos, back later

I'm being a bit nosy here just wondering/willing/yawning hours away as dh has taken dts to 'watch' the rugby. What pushchairs do you all have? I am lucky enough to have 2 a chicco tandem and a cosatto side by side but I rarely use the tandem bought the side by side as wasn't getting on with it. I always feel so obvious with it! I know theyre not the creme de la creme of dt transport but they do me ok (with a little bit of oiling and occasional cleaning --must get round to that--). Just wondering how many what you have and any regrets etc? can you tell Im bored?

I'm going a bit mad wanting other pushchairs!!

I have three- well, two twin ones and my single I've kept and we still use from DD. I have a baby jogger city mini single and double. I love it but am currently having major city mini GT lust, it would be perfect!! I'm also wishing I could have them facing me and get a bugaboo donkey, but nothing short of a lottery win would get me that. More realistically, I also quite want a Phil and teds navigator, as we had to give up on a trip for being too optimistic about the width of paths and terrain a bjcm can take.

I also have the Everest ABC triple. I'm thinking of selling it though as its not waterproof! Took them all out, it lashed, torrentially. Babies were wet to their skin- the rain cover was zipped on. That was the point for me, to be able to move all three round by myself without faffing with children in waterproofs in slings. As that's not the case I think I'll sell...

Dh categorically says I'm getting no more pushchairs

I've not caught up on posts but just read the last one, dream - our ABC triple is waterproof... maybe you should complain? And yes, we've been out in torrents of rain several times - sometimes with the full raincover and sometimes just the front window/footcover, and all times survived apparently! We got ours Feb I think? (There are differences to the models depending, I think, on when you buy.)

Mind you, saying that, they sent us the wrong wheels (we ordered air-free tyres) and I've emailed several times but no response - compared to the almost-instant reply to any sale enquiries!

Hallo ladies! Sorry about the radio silence but I have had a nightmare trying to get all my assignments done or my degree conversion, even with three very generous extensions. Anyway all finished, yeahaaaa!

Congratulation Bailey on the arrival of your triplets, you are amazing!

I'm still catching up on the post but read something the other day that might be helpful to those who are experiencing episodes of regression or unsettled periods - there's something called the 'wonder weeks', these are developmental weeks that are accompanied by unsettled periods (I found it easier to deal with if I old blame the crankiness on one of these) - will find the chart again and post a link.

Hope you are all well, will post properly once I've caught up on everyone's news

Well done on getting the work done scollister!

So poor old dt2 has a fungal infection on his bum and exema/allergic rash on his body/face. We've got canestan for his bum and dermal stuff for washing also epaderm. Poor boy had 2 gps looking at him and sucking their teeth. Might need to investigate allergies later but had stopped solids anyway as I'd felt they weren't ready. Now I think I'll have to take it real slow - with DD I was very gung ho so it's going to be hard.

Re bullies I've got the mountain buggy duet. I do like it but I really miss having them facing. Anyone tried any of the oneswhere you can have multiple positions?

Buggies obv not bullies. Damn phone

scollister I've got that Wonder Weeks book! Interesting to me is that it reckons the 4 month sleep regression is down to one of these big brain development phases, where they learn to group individual impressions into events (e.g. if they see a bouncing ball, they see a bouncing ball event, rather than just lots of up and down movements). I can't reconcile the timing exactly though. They say that the phases happen at a fixed time after conception so if you have an early baby the phases will be correspondingly late. My girls were 3 weeks early but they seem to go through the phases about 1-2 weeks late which I suppose is fairly close...

Would you recommend the book Beyoglu? I've only looked at the website and remember the chart from DD1.

I have the Firstwheels Twin City Elite, I'm a sling person but am very impressed with this buggy. Very light and easy to move and seats can be forward or rear facing. They've recently stopped rocking them in the uk but you can pick up second hand ones still.

Hi everyone. Can't believe my guys have been home for over a week now! Time is blurring into periods of feeding, nappy changing and sleeping . DH has been fab sorting out DS1 and feeding me, so Ican concentrate on getting the feeding established. Having said that last night was officially the worst night ever (so far ). They started feeding at 11ish, and pretty much didn't stop until 6am
2 off them would not settle in their cot so DH and Ihad to alternate holding them and feeding aargh. Now they are all fast asleep on their backs in the cot so know they can do it.
Not sure if it is just epic multiples cluster feeding, or suckling for comfort, but they are not like it at all during the day. Thinking about getting them dummies, but if they are cluster feeding they need the calories and if I introduce a dummy then this may slow their weight gain.... May hold off until Tues, then if HV says good weight gain then may introduce.
Just wish they could understand night from day, but as 6 wks prem guess it will take longer than a term baby

scollister well done for getting you work done, no idea how with babies around so extra brownie points!
BB3 very impressed with triathlon. Watched the one in Sweden yesterday and quite liked the look of the sprint event
dream and claire I am keeping everything crossed for more sleep in all our houses
teds with DS1 we only started a routine/ bed upstairs from 12 weeks when he was starting to sleep at 8ish. Have also read somewhere that they don't recommend babies sleeping away from you until after 12 weeks. Re bf, I would go with feed feed and feed some more to increase supply, and remember what you can express isno indication of how much milk you have, babies are far more effective than a pump so am sure you have more than you think

Phew sorry for epic post, going to wake some babies up for a feed xxx

The book's a bit repetitive scollister, but it is interesting that it lists the things they start to be able to do after each leap. For me I just wanted to know when the fussy periods would be TBH!

rednellie you have the duet... I have a question about the buggy hoods. Do yours have two straps on the hood with studs to attach to the back of the buggy seat, or just one on each hood on the outside, like mine? It looks as though there should be a strap on the inside (like on the left hand side of the right hood and vice versa) because there's a matching stud on the buggy seat, and the hoods sag in the middle because they're only attached on one side.

baileyslover, mine were born at 37 weeks and sorted night from day when they were 2 weeks old i.e. still a week before they were due to be born! So you might be lucky...

Hi All - been awol again, sorry. Had a couple of tough weeks in our house, felt like we'd gone back a month or so, nothing specific, just general tinkers during the day and maybe me getting a bit too hung up on routines. Have now accepted that they're just babies who are going to change every few weeks, so once you think you've got something sorted, it'll all change .

DH is off work now for 2 weeks, hoorah an extra pair of hands and we're going away for a week on Friday.

Baileys, mine were 6 weeks prem and probably only understood night and day once we introduced the nighttime routine at about 6/7 weeks. I remember them coming home from SCBU and they did feed like mad but settled really well for a couple of weeks, then we had a couple of weeks where they were really hard to settle at night after a feed, my DH used to take them down to the office and do his emails one handed at ridiculous times through the night. I think they settled in to a 3 hour feeding routine at about the same time and got them on to just 2 feeds through the night at about 10/11 weeks. I did always wake the second baby though to keep them on the same schedule and it was always the same one! Sounds like you are doing amazing, it's tough enough with 2, so think you deserve a gold medal with 3. Not a medal but and .

Hey Teds, nice to see you over here, CONGRATS! As above we started night routine at about 6/7 weeks and boy did it help, was so nice to get our evenings back. The thing that made the biggest difference for us was doing the last feed in the nursery with low light, lullaby tunes and swaddling them. They picked up pretty quickly that it meant bedtime. Probably swaddled for too long as was hard to get DT2 out of it but it really helped settle them in the early days. We also used to rock them close to sleep but now they are just put in cots to self settle.

Mines, we have the bugaboo donkey. It is the price of a small car and we were very lucky to have it gifted to us by the inlaws but have to say that I love it. Really easy to put up/down, light and easy to push one handed and have just converted carry cots in to pushchair seats, which boys seemed to like in first outing at the weekend.

Reds sorry to see dt2 has nasty infection, hope the creams work soon.

BB3, well done you on the triathlon! I am desperate to get some exercise in (nothing as serious as a competitive triathlon ) but just don't seem to be able to squeeze it in. Oh well, jumpers will be coming out of the wardrobe soon, to hide the saggy bits!!

How's the sleep going this week Dream, any improvement with dt1? I hope so .

Right must go, baby stirring upstairs - waves to everyone else.

wow 'scol' well done thats amazing and you deserve extra credit doing it with babies at home!

also 'bb3' well done on the triathlon I couldn't even do one third of it!

'baileys' I'm not going to tell you when my dt2 sorted his nights out and you probably shouldn't talk to 'dream' about nights at all..... you are doing such an amazing incredible job with dtrips how do you manage for help? Your dh sounds great too how is he with the lack of sleep? Babies always sort their nights out eventually you know this to be true! Every baby is different and it's so obvious in multiples cos you compare them! DT1 is a fab night sleeper but hopeless in day and dt2 is other way round you have to kinda get them onto them same lines of thinking not easy I know...cue wishing dt2 would sleep longer than 6am when dt1 is still in land of nod!

'red' sorry about the nasty infection it's not like you to be upset so must be bad...hugs your way...

skitt totally agree about not getting hung up on routines I think bedtime is a good one as it helps them sleep but in the day I go with the flow and they invented theyre own routine anyway. I did force them to sleep in their cots in the day though as they went through a phase of no naps at all!

beyou has your mum gone home now (I'm a little behind here!)

My dinner is burning whilst I mnet....hmmm

ha ha messed up tagging! useless I am!

Thanks guys, bit better last night, mostly because Icoslept with the worst offender
Going to try swaddling both the girls as I find they are both very active in their limbs at night and think this might be disturbing them.
mines DH isn't great with little sleep. He is getting more than I as goes back to sleep when I am feeding, but guess he hasn't got the hormones I have pushing me on so he is needing his daily naps!
He has another 2 weeks off work, but know once he is back he will have to sleep in another room as no way will he cope otherwise. Only then will I then know how I cope solo.

Hello everyone

Sorry, still to catch up with the thread, but thought I'd update while I have a spare minute! DTs have been home nearly two weeks now, currently 24 days old and 38+0 corrected. Still roughly in routine from SCBU of feeding every 3-4 hours but nearly always bottle (usually EBM, but I still haven't managed to keep up with what they are drinking, so usually one ff every day or so).

DH goes back to work on Wednesday so we'll see how I cope on my own. Currently debating whether to try switching to bf more, especially during the day, which may or may not be easier for tandem feeding when I have them on my own. But I like the current break between feeds which means we can go out for an hour or two and not have to worry about feeding while we are out so feel like it's a bit of a catch 22. I would like to bf more but like the more predictable feeding times we have with using EBM in bottles. What do the rest of you do? And is it possible to mix bf lots some days with mainly bottles other days? Think I'll post in the feeding thread too for thoughts.

As for routines, we still haven't got one yet in terms of baths and bedtimes.

Baileys sounds like you are doing amazingly well. Me and DH take one each for feeding with bottles so I can't imagine how you are coping with bf three. We have resorted to dummies 2 or 3 times, only at night when they are really unsettled and wanting to suck despite having recently fed (and we want some sleep!). It doesn't seem to affect them as they don't get it all the time. We started swaddling our two but they hated having their arms restricted. They both sleep with their hands up beside their heads so are now swaddled from the armpit down

Hope everyone else is well and managing to get some sleep

mines yeah we're solo for now, my mum went home a couple of weeks ago. It got about a million times easier when they started napping in cots and now they're just like what I expected babies to be like i.e. they cry for hunger/tiredness/dirty nappy/come and talk to me but once you fix the thing, they cheer up.

baileys if you're thinking swaddling I can recommend the miracle swaddle blanket: it's good for when they get older and can wriggle out of a traditional wrap:
www.amazon.co.uk/Miracle-Blanket-Swaddling-poppers-scratch/dp/B0013T1M04/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346739674&sr=8-1

I'm a bit hacked off at my OH today - he's away a night next week with work and I only discovered this when I overheard him talking to his mum on the phone! He'd mentioned it a few weeks ago but we talked about how hard it was to do the kids alone and he said he'd see if he could get out of it... then said he had, but it turns out he'd changed it from a 2 day to a 1 day visit but still was staying overnight. If I'd known I could have got my mum to come down but it's too short notice. Luckily my in-laws were able to change their flights as they were anyway visiting at the end of the week.
It just shook me - that he still thinks he can take off without really discussing it, like we would have done before we have kids, and that he reckons it's such an easy job that doing it completely solo for 36 hours wouldn't bother me in the slightest! He's only had the girls solo for a couple of hours at a time, and at the weekend we go and try out swimming and take them out for trips in the buggy and I'm running around like an idiot packing the changing bag, getting the washing on, getting us out the door at the right times for naps etc and I don't think he notices how much thought goes into it.
And another bloody thing. In the last couple of nights the girls have started doing 2 night feeds again. They're 17 weeks corrected on Saturday. Four month sleep regression, clearly. But this morning he's like "oh, maybe it's the warm weather." Why would it be the warm weather? It's been far warmer than that this summer and the girls haven't done 2 night feeds since about the start of July. (It reminds me of when I was doing my PhD in chemistry - you have an experiment that isn't working and every idiot has a suggestion and you feel obliged to take them all seriously because however stupid they may be, your experiment's not working, so what do you know?)
/rant

kazaar and * baileys* sounds like you are both getting into routines anyway imo it's too early for a bathtime routine etc anyway but what do I know . Good luck to you when the dh's go back to work you will be fine I'm in awe of baileys with 3 but then most folks on the street are impressed by 2 so it's all a walk in the park really ok maybe not a walk more of a stumble turning into a flat on face fall.

red how is your dts skin?

dream you are very quiet at the moment-are you sleeping?!? (I bet you wish!).

beyou they just don't understand how much we do the men as they are not doing it day in day out I tend to just leave dh to it some days and have a bit of me time..no instructions or anything-thats how I learnt to do it ha ha! I wouldn't be happy if he did that though double no to double solo night feeds that is not fair at all!

Oh and baileys forgot to mention is the reason I asked about your dh is my dh was awful on no sleep!

<waves tiredly all round>

I'm reading, but seriously, I'm so tired, and you must all be fed up of hearing it by now. Guess what? No sleep miracles here. DT1 is up 2 hourly before midnight, more afterwards...

Where's bigboobs disappeared to?

Much sympathy for your poor DT2 red, grim grim grim. Hope his creams are helping. And that he doesn't have lots of allergies...

I'm in the process of arranging a multpile mums meet-up at my house- two other sets of twins and one set of triplets- eeek! For the record, my house is not vast- where the heck they'll all fit I don't know... Triplet mum is so lovely, I told her that if I go to our local playground with my 3 in the triple (as she's taken her 4 there twice) people are genuinely disappointed I don't have dtrips, and tell me 'We've seen a mum here, with triplets and a toddler- and you think YOU'VE got it hard!!' She thought this was very funny, and says she doesn't at all as all hers are brilliant sleepers and she only bf's one so I should contradict them all and say well actually I do!! Made me giggle, the thought of triplets not being hard too!!!!!

Anyway, I'm wasting precious and short sleep time
xx

*multpile = multiple, obviously...

Evening ladies. Very brief check in because DH is abroad, so clearly I should be either a) doing something useful or b) asleep. Instead I'm drinking the ONE small glass of wine I allow myself when sole driver Verrrryyyy slowly and mainlining chocolate by the family sized bar.

Action packed weekend for the babes - wander around our old uni town (success), lunch in a park (epic fail), posh wedding (success), lunch at a seafood restaurant (epic epic fail). Now have washing piled up the rafters!

beyoglu I keep meaning 2 check the buggy and keep forgetting. I promise I will eventually. And I'm sorry your OH hasn't quite worked it out yet. They do often seem to take longer to adjust, if ever! Having said that I've been hanging out with my brother and his new baby and he is a total natural. Am most impressed. Also his 7 week old baby is the same size as our almost 6 monthers!

Dt2 is doing better but still bad. Has turned into proper full body excema. He resembles a chemical burns victim. It just breaks my heart especially when he smiles despite utility all. Dh is in London sorting our place out so I'm doing nights pretty much solo with a bit of help from mum. Its very very tiring as he can't sleep for long. Also our move has turned into the move that just keeps on giving. It feels like I'll never actually live in my own place with my stuff unpacked. It's fine and I know rationally it'll be over soon butI feel so scattered.

Sorry that wad a bit moany! I've not worked how to do emoticons on my phone yet or I'd give you all my trade mark grin. Perhaps followed by some wine. And a jug of coffee.

Yo yo yooooooooooo!!! Here I am Dream. Been lurking but not had chance to read all the posts and no chance to post - this will be a me me me one and short!

All is good here, although the boys are much harder work in the day now - awake soooo much more and take a while (sometimes ages) to get them to sleep unless they are in the pushchair. So less time for myself to get things done, hence being missing in action!

But they really are doing brilliantly - DT1 just shy of 18lb and DT2 17lb 7 - so both over the 90th centile!! HV seemed a bit surprised at the weigh in! still no rolling over and to be honest they get so few minutes of tummy time they can only lift their heads off the floor for a very short time

Nights are hit and miss - sometimes bed at 7.30pm / 8pm and don;t wake till 5 for food then sleep again till about 7.30 / 8am. Other times, bed at 9pm and up again at 1am!!! They keep teasing me with a light at the end of the tunnel! But they are only just 4 months so I am happy with how things are going.

I have found they both really like holding a cloth (you know what I mean - those white things muslins???) when settling to sleep - never thought to try it before. That does not mean to say they self settle - there is still a lot of rocking / shushing / patting / singing / jiggling / feeding in this house!

Oh and DReam, I have now got both boys on regular Gavison and they are like different babies - seem happier, more comfortable, more settled during the night and feeding more less often (IYSWIM). Might all be a coincidence but I am putting it down to the Gaviscon for now.

{hmm} I seem to have painted a rosie picture. Things ARE going ok but there are many 'shits hit the fan' moments with all three children crying as well as me and a hungry cat because I have not got time to feed him and a pile of washing the size of Everest in the kitchen. And on a few occasions DH has come home and I can barely speak because I am running on empty.

Hope you get settled soon Red - when do you move to London?

Hello to everyone else, really sorry for lack of personals - will try and get back on later.

oooo, Beyoglu I have the duet and if I have understood you correctly then there ARE two studs on each hood - want me to take a piccy and send to you?? I would do it now but DH has taken the car with the pushchair in the boot so can't get out all day bastard

Hang on in there dream, you're doing so well... he's going to grow out of it one way or the other.

red/bigboobs I emailed Mountain Buggy and they're looking into it. Sods. I could really do with some non-flapping hoods right about now...

red you're my hero! Solo nights... and I do hope the wee one's eczema gets sorted, that sounds really tough.

Right, weigh in tomorrow - I'm going to have to break out the sodding Weego again because it's always chocka and the girls will get tired waiting and need to sleep on me. Hopefully that will be the last time as next time my MIL will be here and the time after that they'll be 6 months and, I hope, will have consolidated their naps a bit.
I'm wondering whether to complain about one of the health visitors. She wrote "artificial feeding" on the girls' notes in their red books - i.e. bottle feeding is artificial. It seems judgemental and quite rude. I know part of their job is to promote breast feeding but I don't see how trying to shame me is going to help that. Noone else will see that nasty little comment but me, and I'm 4 months in and not going to have any other kids, so the boat's really sailed on breastfeeding for me.
On the other hand why make waves, right? But I hope she's not doing that to other people. It's hard enough just getting through the day never mind this sort of crap.

complain Beyoglu - I think that comment is bang out of order. I bottle feed and have enough guilt myself without snide comments from others.

Hi kazaar, I'd guess if your babies swap well so there's no nipple confusion problems it'd be ok, as if you're expressing for the bottles it wouldn't affect your supply?! I'm no expert though, but if you're not fussed where you feed bf is so much easier! I don't have problems going out, in fact recently I've been out for the day more often than not (Dh had fortnight off). We've been up to the lake district the last 3 days, walking round lakes, going to different playgrounds etc making the most of some nice weather and i just feed one then the other. In the car if it suits, but otherwise any old cafe, bench, wall, grassy spot will do. I do predict when to feed. If we're out I don't ever tandem feed so i just make sure I feed after about 2.5 hours to avoid it all going tits up! Sometimes its 3 easily, but say we're about to order food or get in the car or something i feed sooner to err on the side of caution and avoid starving hungry babies!!! To be fair, a huge toddler tantrum in the middle of a shop in Hawkshead was the most challenging part of the day, not the babies!

Glad you're still here bigboobs, mine also don't get anywhere near enough floor or tummy time,neither can roll (22 weeks), DT2 only just getting the idea of lifting head up fully and strength to do it- relief he finally can at all although its still quite brief <guilty mummy emoticon> . He hates tummy time though, just cries...

Oh red, chemical-burn style skin sounds awful, poor baby. Hope he continues to improve, and quickly! I too would love the babies parent facing, I feel bad they're more isolated looking out by themselves . I'd wondered about the bj city select, but ideally the Donkey. Just too £££££ though...

Any thoughts on tandem carrying bigger babies? I'm rubbish with my moby wrap, never really got the hang of it, but love my boba 3G (Ergo style soft structured carrier). Can I wear one SSC on the front and one on the back? Would I need a different sling to wear two? I'd need something easy to get on, and idiot proof, I.e not a wrap. I've been happily carrying DD in my boba for days so i know I can carry some weight, but I couldn't have a baby bjorn type sling on my front, that'd be too hard. Do any of you tandem carry?

Oh, and how, how do I teach my DT1 to self settle without howling/ cc involved?? I feed him, he's either asleep or very much awake. He doesn't do 'drowsy'. If he's put down awake sometimes he'll lie there for up to 10 min. He never goes to sleep. The room is dark ish- getting darker as days get shorter, obviously, white noise is on (mainly for DT2), he's had his bath etc so knows its nighttime. he has a soft comforter thing he likes to hold and suck. Very occasionally, later in the night, I can get him back to sleep by holding in a dummy and back patting with him on his side but he never sleeps for long after settling like this. Last night he never slept longer than an hour.

I still think he's too little for cc and it'd break me first, but wits end springs to mind.

How does everyonr else teach their babies to self settle???

Evening all - really should be packing but is one of my least favourite things to do. How do I know now what I might want to wear next week and now have that problem x 3!!

Beyoglu, I'd definitely complain, that wording is not on .

Dream, sorry no help on the sling front. I've got a close carrier and there's so much fabric that wouldn't be an option, also have a baby bjorn but DH wears that. Any progress with the multiples meeting? It's my turn next to host my ante-natal groups meeting but I love it when we get together. There's 5 of us so 10 babies but we all understand the madness of having more than one and brilliant to catch up on what everyone is doing.

Baileys if you're still thinking of swaddling, I'd recommend the Swaddleme www.amazon.co.uk/Summer-Infant-72014-SwaddleMe-Cotton/dp/B004H5EGYA/ref=sr_1_2?s=baby&ie=UTF8&qid=1346784846&sr=1-2 . It has got Velcro fastenings but never had any issues with them even when mine started their Houdini antics. They were just so much easier once they were too big for self swaddling in sheets. I've actually got 2 that we bought as spares in case of middle of the night accidents, that have never been used and still in packaging, I'd happily post them to you if you're interested or indeed to anyone if they get some use.

Kazaar I'm not sure how supply copes with different demand on different days. I have struggled with oversupply and found it v.hard when the boys first started sleeping through the night but after a while your body does get used to it. I always found breastfeeding easier when on my own and for about the first 4 months always tandem fed them when at home on our own, just thought it was always easier and quicker to get them both done at the same time. It then became difficult to tandem feed as they got bigger and fussing as more easily distracted so stopped. They have always been on a 3 hour feed schedule though, so predictable. I am now in the process of weaning them off the breast as I've decided that when I start them on solids I'm going to switch to just formula. So far it's going ok and my supply is working itself out, only find myself bursting first thing in the morning, especially when DT2 decides to sleep in to 8.30 as he did this morning .

Bigboobs, mine love the cloth thing too, so I bought them some muslins with pictures on them which they now associate with sleep and really helped us sort out the daytime napping. DT1 so cute with his as he pulls it up over his head, rubs his eyes and then snoozes off under it.

Right better get some of this packing done...

dream, I doubt this will help with DT1 night waking, but for going off to sleep in the evening... post about 15 weeks I couldn't ever get the girls to go off unless it was pitch black. I taped tinfoil to their bedroom window.

skitoo my twin friend is taking her wee ones away on holiday and is going through the same thing! Will it be warm or cold, who knows... I have less of an issue with this because, erm, mine are still in babygros!

I'm just going to totally jinx myself and say woohoo, I think they're weaned off the swaddle! As DT2 awoke at 4am for her second night feed (grr, 4 month sleep regression) with a flailing arm as usual I thought, f*ck this, I'll take her out the swaddle and see what happens. She chattered for about half an hour but I just ignored her and she went to sleep. Now both of them are upstairs sleeping in their sleeping bags for the morning nap.

We went to the baby clinic yesterday and they're now both exactly 14lb! Clever. Not surprised DT2 has caught up with her sister as she's been drinking loads. I spoke to the HV who wrote the "artificial feeding" thing and got the usual "I'm sorry you feel that way" NHS non-apology so am going to complain. Also realised that she's the one who mixed up their weights at 6 weeks, making it look like DT1 had lost weight, and made me worry unnecessarily about their feeding! Also I raised with them that they've been filling in the growth chart wrong - for premature (earlier than 37 weeks) babies they should put their measurements on the main chart at their corrected age i.e. what age they would be if they had been born at 40 weeks. Took this up with said HV and she very condescendingly tried to explain to me that they would only correct to what they would be if they were born at 37 weeks - I have just looked up the WHO guidance on this and I'm right and she's wrong, and it means the girls have been between the 25th and 50th percentile since they were born i.e. normal normal normal. God, she spoke to me as if I was really stupid as well. Why why didn't I say to her, look, I currently work as a statistician for the Bank of England and spent 10 years working on statistical process control and chemical kinetics in chemical manufacturing, so I can read a f*cking growth chart?

Just wrote a really long post and site went down how annoying is that!

I'll be a bit more brief!

skitoo same here meant to be packing off for a week tomorrow can't wait but packing is scary!

beyou were your dts born at 37 weeks like mine? I don't think it's right that they don't correct the age after this time regarding development. a) 40 weeks is full term no matter how many babies. b) I can see my dts are 3 weeks behind developmentally.

The other thing that happened was though I knew my dates to the exact date due to ivf but the dts measured a week ahead at scans. So they induced them at nearly 37 weeks according to that but according to the correct-cannot-be-argued-with date they were induced at 36 weeks. Which totally buggers up the whole correctional age thing! Some dts do stay put longer so are they overdue at 39 weeks I wonder? The fact is most multiples arrive early i.e before 40 weeks so 37 weeks is 3 weeks early imo.
Also I work in a baby clinic have never seen the term 'artificial feeding' she sounds like an insensensitive h/v but not thinking rather than forcing her opinion on ff. For one I have never felt guilty about ff and all health professionals have been very supportive in my decision. It's the cost that gets to me!

dream what else can you try? you've done it all! will he sleep in his swing or pram? could you leave him there at night for a bit? I used to bring dt2 downstairs and push him in his pram at night during his period of non sleeping. I'm in awe of your multiple mum hosting but I bet it will be fab! I wish there was something like that here all the twin mums I've met just don't seem particularly interactive/ sociable . I go to baby groups and stuff though where there's mums of single babies so it's not too bad.

Right..less typing more packing.

Hi mines, mine were born at 36+5 - so only only just premature! She wasn't arguing that they weren't premature though, just about how much you correct by on the chart if they are - she was suggesting that you only take away the weeks before 37 but you don't, you take the weeks away up to 40 weeks. TBH I think they should correct at any point up to 40 weeks. Like you, I can see that my girls are about 3 weeks behind what you would expect - they're just having the 17 week screamy madness described in The Wonder Weeks just now, for example, even though they're 20 weeks old on paper.

Lucky me my antenatal clinic was a twins one and have seen aaaalll the IVF babies, so once they knew it was IVF they just did "egg collection date +35 weeks = induce at 37 weeks".

You're being a bit more charitable to that HV than I am prepared to be! Writing "artificial" takes longer than writing "bottle" or "formula" so I'm guessing she has a reason...

beoyou perhaps she found a new word for the month or likes to practice her joined up writing.... . Twins aside the whole bloody world seems to be a bit that's what makes it go round-why would we expect it to be any different! I have never heard of a twin antenatal clinic how lovely! Was it just twins or multiples i.e dtrips too? was your birth in a specialist hospital? I definately missed out there! Though all the girls on the postnatal ward were great. A few of us were snowed in (weird talking about snow in this heat where has the year gone etc..) as they sent as many home as they could think we all felt as if we would never leave!

Thanks dream just marking my space will try and catch up with everyones stories and come back

Hello all. I'm so brain dead I can't remember what's going on with everyone, but lovely to hear from you boobs. You have been missed.

We're all a bit tired here. Dt2 is getting much better. Turns out he's got very sensitive skin so took a while to find something we could put on his skin. However he's gone back to his nightly bouts of inconsolable crying. I've been averaging 5 hrs a night but broken into one or 2 .hr chunks. My dear mum has been trying to help but its knackering and she almost 70. Its made me realise that basically I'm not giving to be able to ever have a break. At least not until they're feeding less.

Which brings me on to weaning. They're both so ready for it, each reaching for my plate, but I don't feel ready. My poor third brain just can't work it out. Doesn't help that we're still not in our own home and I haven't got high chairs etc. Anyway ling winded way of asking how people do it?

Btw beyoglu my buggy has got those poppers . Annoying eh?

Just a quick one from me, I'm also giing through a diwn patch... Sleep is better but getting to sleep is a different matter! That aside it's the sheer physical demands of looking after two babies that are really taking their toll. added to that getting ready for the move... Not ready at all.. I don't want to leave my friends.

rednellie I know what you mean, I kept postponing weaning and it drove my older dds potty as they were so keen but I kept saying "another few days"... It's such a fuff, and so time consuming.. We're on three meals now, and its so much more work, the cooking, feeding, cleaning, changing dirty/wet clothes, washing aarrgh!

Dream if you find out the secret to selfsettling I want it too! Today I let dtg suck on my finger in desperation as she was exhausted and no amount of rockibg or feeding was working. Clearly NOT a ling term solution though.

Sorry cant do more personals, I keep reading during my night feeds, but cant manage posts.

Sorry for the moany post..,

I'm feeling a bit down too Claire. Sleep is not improving here, in fact, now DT2 has stopped sleeping well (? 4 month sleep regression a little late as he was 2 weeks early?) . Plus my baby DD was 2 today and I feel a bit emotional about that too! 2!!!

Last night was one of our worst ever, I had way less than 3 hours sleep, Dh and i were horrible to each other in the night and i felt bad that I was having to force myself to be really cheerful for DD in the morning for her birthday. She has had a lovely busy day with a little party this afternoon though.

Anyway, bed now.

Hope you're feeling okay Claire, a move away from friends- yours and your older dds- must be so tough with baby twins.

With you on the sudden realisation there is no chance of a break red but glad your mum is so supportive.

Just a quickie from me - top tip, how not to make life harder for yourself - think it'll be a good idea to take your 5 month old twins on holiday, aaarrggghhh!!! 4 days in and DH and I have concluded that it's hard enough when you're at home with normal surroundings, everything where it's meant to be, know your local area etc so why on earth would you take off to a strange house, all the things you need all over the place and every time you go out and about, you have no idea how long it'll take you to get there and exactly what facilities might be there when you get there .

But it has been nice, journey down was good and timing of stops ideal for boys feeds/naps and we lucked out with the weather the first 3 days, so have been to the beach and have had a good stroll round some pretty places (will skim over none of them having pavements wide enough for double buggy) but man has it been hard!

Mines, hope you're enjoying your trip and if you're reading and have any useful tips for making it easier, please post . Oh and packing consisted of throwing in anything that fits them, which isn't much as they're just about growing out of 0-3 months but 3-6 way too big.

Beyoglu, my hv charts weights with actual age and then draws dotted line back 6 weeks for gestational age, which makes sense to me.

Dream, Claire, Red, sorry its all a bit rubbish. Have you tried to do any of the textbook stuff? I read Baby Secrets by Jo Tantum which was written in collaboration with a twin mum and whilst a load of it was ott, I definitely took bits from it which helped us with sleep routines and settling etc. But hey, I'm a first tim mummy who had absolutely no idea .

Right off to watch Murray on the iPad!

Ah skitoo, I know what you mean. Being at my parents, I've only just worked out a routine/places to put everything/equipment so that now I can just about do things as efficiently as I did back at home. Then we're moving up to London next week and I'll have to start working it all out all over again. Boring!

Things are better here, DT2's skin is much improved and I'm just praying it doesn't flare up as soon as I stop using the steroid cream. I'm moisturizing him within an inch of his life and he looks like a different baby. And they're both sleeping better. Last couple of nights they've stirred in the evening, but I've managed to settle them and then they both wake around about 2.30am and I feed them and then they sleep till morning. Course, I've told you lot that now so the sleep jinx will get me, but at least I feel vaguely human. My body is falling apart though from the lack of sleep/exercise. I just don't know how to get the time to do anything to keep myself fit, apart from all the walking and lifting etc. Am going to try and find a good dance class once we're up in London.

Speaking of which DH is sorting the house so hopefully we'll be going up very soon. The move has been AWFUL, very disorganised for me which I have found painful - it's hard releasing control when you're a control freak...

Anyway, hope you're all ok. And yeah, any weaning tips gratefully appreciated (not so much what to feed them, I do remember that from DD, but more the practicalities)

Super quick one, I'm in the midst of being packed up, if we're not careful babies might be boxed up too.,, I hate moving!!!

Hello. Snowed under here prepping for 1st birthday. Somebody pass me the ...

Oh twelve I'm with you, I need a large one today!!

Happy first birthday twelveleggedtwins

First birthday twelve?! <hands over large amount of to twelve and Claire

What doesn't kill us and all...

Waiting to hear about my career break application. If I get it I'm off til Jan 4th 2014. Crossing everything, I'm desperately wanting to be able to be at home with them while they're little but want my job too

Oh, and now DD has been 2 for three days, so i no longer have three children under two but its not easier <sulks>

Birthday in 2 days time - a funny one with the whole NICU experience, might be a tad weepy...

Then somewhere between 20 and 30 people, including a terrifying number of babies, coming for a naming ceremony and lunch the day after. Am quaking at the thought of so many people in my house - no idea where everyone is going to sit, how it's going to work, whether FIL will be his usual uncontroversial self... arrggghhhhhhhhh.

Sorry for lack of reading and posting, am about to go and write the shopping list of doom! Wish me luck!

And happy birthday to DreamingBigSister! She's probably a bit young for but here's some for Dreaming for being a legend!

Oh good luck Claire. Hope your move goes a bit smoothly than ours!

Happy birthday to all the little legs and mini dream. Everyone's growing up. Sob.

Right ladies I've tried to catch up on the thread but its so hard when your on the phone and tbh i rarely get on the laptop now
(just incase anyone missed my name change i was goingmadtrying)
baileys kazar hope your babies have settled in and your coping ok, have your dh/dp gone back to work now??

rednellie how awful for your dt2 hope he is getting better, any progress on the move for you?

dream i hope dt2 has started to settle more for you, i have to say although you seem to have had it tough your coping remarkably well hope your dd had a lovely birthday x

skitoo hope your well and enjoyed your holiday, what age/weight did you start using the seat unit on the donkey?? I too was lucky enough to be brought mine as a gift but absolutely love it i love the carrycots but have found it so easy with the school run if we take the car using the car seats and also to pop to the shops!! Its so easy to push love love love it and always getting comments about it

bigboobs lovely to see another familiar face hope things are going well for you too

Waves to everyone else and sorry for not being able to Do a personal post to everyone

just a quick update from me, my girls are 11 weeks old now which has flown by, this has been the single most hardest thing i have ever done but so worth it, my gorgeous princesses are now 9lb 13 and 9lb 7 and are smiling and cooing away it feels as if weve turned a corner although still struggling with colic and screaming early evening but I've learnt to live with it and have made it a little easier with using Dr brown bottles, we are only waking once a night and have had a couple of nights where dt2 has slept through, the last feed is around 8-9pm and they then wake between 3-4am and get up around 6-7 so not too bad and much better than some i know they don't like tummy/floor time yet but hoping that comes soon and have just started staring at the toys above them,

wow that turned into a mammoth post better get back to sleep as they have gone back off, lovely to catch up with you all xx

Hi all I'm back from the holibobs. skit where did you go? we went to Cornwall near Padstow. The holiday was good weather wasn't great. The boys didn't settle well at night which was a first for us have been so chuffed and silently gratful for having good evening self settlers and sleepers since 3 months. The cottage owners loaned us cots (I know, i KNOW) and they weren't the best quite old and erm...rickety. The first night dt1 woke evry 2 hours and they had us up at 5.30 every morning until the last 2 days which was the usual 6.30. This is unheard of. Also they took over an hour to settle one night and another we had to go out and but a sleeping bag for dt1 who had thrown up and I hadn't been able to dry any clothes as ity had been raining....anyway we stayed out and got chips (bad BAD people) and finally put them down at 10pm when they took ages to settle again. They then got up at 6am. I wasn't sure if it could be teething as they are really bothered but came home tonight and they are out like proverbial lights in comfy cots... plus dt2 has been constipated for about 4 days (looks like he's been collecting pebbles off the Cornish beaches) that plus teething, not sleeping well, not settling well, rah rah rah. We had a good time overall but skitoo I came home and said I definately don't appreciate how nice it is to have all our things around us at home!

Whinge whinge whinge....

Happy Birthday to little dream and twelve congrataulations on surviving the first year you did it! Hands . To twin2 congratulations on the first 11 weeks it definately definately gets better after 12 weeks despite all my moaning!

red glad your dt2 is better and hope you are to you are always so positive but we all have these tough times we get through them which brings me to claire and also dream. So sorry you are feeling down I've been up and down the last few months and the down days are so hard but the up days are just around the corner don't put too much pressure on yourself. You are going through such a busy time with the packing and the move claire and you with no sleep dream take a minute for a cuppa or whatever, recharge and know that it isn't forever. [flowers] and for you too. I'm off now as I have to put a second wash on (about another 3 to go!).

Bet you've all missed my typos!

Woohoo we made it back too and whilst it was a nice break, it was blo*dy knackering! We went to Kingsbridge, South Devon and yes Mines, we had hit and miss weather. Sorry to hear that it unsettled your boys, we were obviously very lucky in that ours coped well and only had 1 night time waking from DT2 and I only had to pop in for a little reassurance and he dropped straight back off. Conclusion was that we tried to have the type of holiday that we had pre babies which was just too much hard work with them in tow. We did have a fab day on the beach though, me and my boys camped out in our little pop up tent .

One thing that definitely worked for us and I'd recommend if you have to make a long journey is to do it as it were bedtime. So coming home we bathed and fed boys at 6.30pm, then at 7 popped them in their carseats instead of cots, in their sleep bags and drove home. Made great time doing journey at that time and when we got home just transferred them from carseats to cots. Have done it a couple of times now and makes a long journey a lot less painful.

Twelve, happy birthday to the little ones. Hope you all had a fab day and everything went smoothly. Am in awe of your organisational skills for all the celebrations.

Red, having done the week away, my heart goes out to you and the moving around you have had to do. I really hope you'll all be settled in your new home soon. Fx the better sleeping has continued and yes I'm completely with you on the lack of exercise making me feel cr*p. I popped in to the crèche at my gym (the one I have paid membership for but not used in the last year ) and whilst I was impressed I'm not sure I'm ready to leave my little men in there yet....

Dream, sending postive vibes for the application.

Twin2 sounds like your little ladies are doing great. I found mine changed loads around the 12-13 week mark, nice when they start focusing on toys etc and it was about then that they went through the night with just the dream feed. Don't worry about the tummy/floor time, one of mine great from early on as he naps on front but the other hated it until one day, not that long ago it clicked and he's now rolling front to back and belly shuffling quite happily. We changed the buggy seats about 2 weeks ago when they were 5 months and guessing about 12lb. They are fab and have made such a difference as they were not at all happy in the carrycots, they wanted to be upright and able to have a nosey. I'd say the big thing is to make sure they've got good head control and they'll be fine. We got the seat liners to pad them up a bit (they're still a little bit diddy) but the harness holds them in well and we have them in the first recline position, so not bolt upright. They love it and now nod off happily in there which they weren't ding in the carrycots. And totally agree about the car seats, makes little trips out and about v.easy .

Hope everyone else is well and enjoying what might be the last nice weekend of the year.

Quick check in while I feed dtb. We moved into new house today, still have have a million boxes to unpack but the worst shoul be over..,
I am v impressed with all of you attempting holidays with the twins!! We've had to stay at hotels for our move and it's been such a nightmare I dont know when when we'll feel like having a holiday again

Our routines are as you can imagine, all over the place, need to start all over again and have no idea how to. I will soon be doing bedtime on my own again and I cant spend two hours trying to settle them, it just isnt fair on my older two. They have been brilliant so far, but they need more time with me when I can focus on them alone.

Any advice greatly appreciated

red hope you're little one's skin is much better

Thank you mines for the and [flowers], all greatly appreciated. 'specially the

Conrats claire! Hope you all get settled into routines and the new house soon.

Hey talking of routines etc this was funny last night. My in-laws are here so after the girls had their 7pm feed and were asleep in their cots, we went out for dinner (just down the road). There was a family having a birthday dinner, including a baby girl who looked about maybe 6 months? So it's like 8pm, she has her bottle, then they bring in the car seat and put her in that and she dozes fitfully in this packed restaurant (with 90s techno playing out of the kitchen!) and we left at quarter to 10 and they were still there! And I thought, wow, OK, I am never second guessing myself again about whether we have a good routine with the girls or not.

In other news, our ones seem to be coming out of the Wonder Week 17/4 month sleep regression, and are a lot cheerier and now they reach out with their hands, and babble, and turn their heads to hear sounds. DT2 is chattering to herself in bed just now, and DT1 and DH are sleeping through it, bless them. Oh I love it. I've never been around babies and until now, looking after them reminded me of a sad thing, of looking after my dad when he was in the final stages of lung cancer. But (and I know this is kind of obvious) but it's like that in reverse. They come into the world these sorry little things, and every week something new opens up for them, something they can do for the first time. Yeah yeah, it's all hearts and flowers now, should have seen me three weeks ago when DT1 woke like 15 times between 7 and 11 and I was trying to watch Parade's End.

Hello all,

I'm reading with interest but we are really struggling here... I haven't managed to get more than 90 minutes sleep in a row in about a week (not helped as babies have colds), pretty much up hourly with one or the other.

So I'm too tired to have anything of interest to say.

Well done Claire, glad you've survived your move. Hope the girls like their new school

Sorry yours has been such a pigs ear rednellie, I am as ever amazed by your cheeriness despite it all

Also well impressed by those who've been away with baby twins

Though maybe we would contemplate it, if only we could get some sleep, sob!

Well I definately think teething is going on here they still don't have any at nearly 8 months and they wake intermittantly through night (sp?) dt2 is turning into a right grump so hoping for a toosy peg soon. They did sleep until 8am this morning though after all the 5.30 wake ups on holiday. Well dt2 did wake at 5.30 but we managed to feed him back to sleep which hadn't been successful when away. DH returns back to work tomorrw so am on my tod again not overly thrilled at the prospect of it it can be a bit mundane! On the plus side have to put my request in this week for part time hours when I go back to work in November. Looking forward to a bit of adult conversation and something to focus on whilst still having a few days at home with the dts, as long as I get good hours (which shouldn't be a problem but who knows could get tucked up yet!).

dream I've been away twice with the dts the first time they were more settled and though still hard work it's just nice to have a change so to me that is equal to a break-just go for it you've nothing to lose!

claire congrats on the move done you will settle in soon enough now the hardest part is done imo.

beyou I was wondering something about your post. You have a good routine that cannot be argued do you think the people in the restaurant did or didn't have a good routine?

Claire, congrats on moving in to the new home, you must be relieved, I hope you all settle in quickly. And stopping in hotels must have been tough, you obviously deserve the traditional bubbly for new home celebrations. What beautiful part of the country are you in now?

Beyoglu that's so lovely to read . It's blo*dy tough isn't it but so worth it when you get those heart tugging little moments. As for the little one who was dining out, I'm often jealous of those in a way, always think how much more I'd be doing if I only had one baby as I think I'd be way more relaxed about routine. Then I remember how special it is to have 2 and all the doubly special things I get with my little men.

Sorry to hear you're all poorly in the Dream house . Any way you can rope in some more help to give you a break?

Mines, hope a tooth pops out soon. I'm in the same boat with DH going back to work tomorrow, not looking forward to it, as it's just so much easier when there's 2 of you and you can man mark!! Hope you get the hours you want from work, when will they let you know?

Can I ask for those who have, when did you start weaning, did you take gestational age in to account? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hey all just a quickie. Thanks for all the lovely messages of support, skitoo thanks for the empathy. Yeah, moving really does suck but it's almost over as we're finally rejoining Dh in London. I'm a bit apprehensive ad he keeps hinting at how tiny and scuzzy the hours is. I knew it would be and I know it's not permanent but he hasn't exactly filled me with confidence!
We've re-startedcweaning here. Going well after first few days. Normally I give them baby rice gloop on a spoon whilst they hold a segment of banana which they chew on. Dt1 is very neat with a much smaller appetite. Dt2 is like the cookie monster, food flying everywhere.

Anyway, I'm enjoying seeing their personalities develop and bar a few incidents they've been really enjoying their sister too.

Good luck with the unpacking Claire I am with you in spirit.

Congrats Claire and rednellie on the moving house i hope things settle for you quickly

dream i really feel for you i hope you and the little ones start to feel better soon

Thank you for the advice on the donkey seats skitoo i can definitely see my little ladies being happier awake in the seats, i took them food shopping over the weekend and thought id try the baby seats on the trolley and they were very active looking around and cooing away

I take my Girlies out to eat all the time?? I just work it round a feed, not sure i would feed whilst there though so just eat and go lol

Id really like some advice on my Girlies, they currently have gone back to 4oz and feed once though the night 3am-5am then wake between 6-8am and feed again and then 12, 4 and 8-9pm, is this enough??? Their 11 weeks and weigh 9lb7 and 9lb13. we really struggle between the last 2 feeds with colic/wind and they cry/scream between these hours and then they settle down after the last feed until the night feed, dt2 has slept through 3 times but dt1 always wakes with a grumbling tummy, any advice on how to get them both through the night

dream hoping for some good quality sleep for you soon!

mines sorry, I meant the kid in the restaurant had a bad routine! Like, surely if she was in the house she'd be in bed already, but now she's napping in this loud restaurant. skitoo's right, with a singleton it's probably nice to be so flexible but it would bring me out in hives! I'm very very protective of the sleep <strike>I<strike> they get.

skit not sure yet but hopefully not too long they are very flexible and easy going so fingers crossed. garding weaning I started at about 21/22 weeks on h/v advice getting started is a bit of a pain for a few weeks but there's no problem now we leave the house again now! Saying that dt2 is off his food and milk a bit but I don't force it on him he is a very healthy weight just those bloody flipping teeth!

Speaking of teeth dt1 appears to have one coming yay yay yay! He's a bit happier at the moment than he's been for a while but his brother is turning into the grim one (normally placid) hoping he is a lot quicker as dt1 has been screamy for ages and ages....

beyou regarding routines I am fairly much of the 'whatever works for you' approach'. The only thing I've stuck with is bedtime (they need a bath anyway and I like my evenings with dh) and feeding and (hopefully) napping at same time. Oh and when home napping in cots as opposed to on me! Tbh I'm a little bit over routines. Babies change their ways pretty frequently once I had mine sussed at 4-6 months they changed when they went into solids. I have learnt from that to not spend too much time (just a little bit of it-well something to do ain't it?) stressing over routines as it may all go out the window! My mil is always saying things like she never put her babies to bed early etc. Now that would not be my ideal but it was ok for her! Sorry if this all sounds a bit negative. I am not anti-routine as such and we have our little one-I really admire those who have them as they are so organised and know how much free time they have each day! I suppose I'm thinking this today as after the dts slept through till 6.30 for a month they have started waking at 5.30 and I'm feeding em back to sleep. They then sleep in till 8.15 again which means lie ins for me . Me and dh decided that anything before 6.30 would be a 'night feed' if we could get them back to sleep and anything after is get up time. Simply because after 6.30 dh isn't here to help me so easier to get up. So they do have a routine but it's tailored to our needs iyswim. What is everyone elses opinion on routines? Do you have one? What is it? beyou's routine seems good with lots of me-time. Can I have that one?!?

I feel the need to share a little holiday incident. On a lovely sunny day (relevant) we went to a beautiful harbour village walked all round and then fed dts and ourselves by rbour. DT1 decided to do a massive poo which leaked right through. We then had to walk (run) over to baby changing with dt1 eating his foot and therefore waving his bum at the gazillions of passersby with a spreading brown patch. When we got there-no spare clothes in change bag arrggghhh! (I blame dh) DT1 ended up in his car seat in just his nappy with a blanket over him whilst we ran to Asda yet again. Dh ran in and got a vest and shorts and after a quick dress we did our food shop. DT1 hasn't suffered for it he slept well in the car!

That sounds normal to me mine. All my kids are constantly in states of undress. Especially now DD has developed travel sickness. Yey pukey smelling car! And it's new (we bought a sharan in the end).

twins2 your two sound like they're doing fine for how young they are. My DD didn't sleep through till she was 9 months and my twins who are 6 months sometimes wake twice between 7pm and 6am but that's on a VERY good day (ie it never happens). Don't stress too much. [Grin]

mines, our routine's not dissimilar to yours! It moves around a fair bit, like this evening they were wrecked so they went to bed earlier, and as for feeding schedules... I basically have it that I start with the bottle at the same time, but then they can have what they want from them for an hour afterwards... and sometimes when they look hungry I'll give them one at the wrong time. About the only thing I really enforce is nothing to eat between half 4 and bedtime at 7 (so they will actually be hungry and take a decent amount) and that they have to be in bed between half 6 and 7. I guess what I meant was, they can break the routine but I wouldn't do it for my own convenience.

Coming across a bit smug now I realise. I don't mean it like that! They're OK sleepers, nothing outstanding, and we still have night feeds...

Well, we made it, they're one! Babies are well and truly partied out and I am beyond knackered.
We didn't do much celebrating on their actual birthday as we had lots of organising to do - I felt marginally guilty, but they won't exactly remember it . Also it was good because it kept me really busy and I was worried I might get a bit weepy over the whole premmie birth/NICU thing. So we had lots of friends here on Friday night, and I despite watching the clock to try and catch their actual time of birth, I did miss it, still we raised a toast to them with some lots of wine a few minutes later. Then we had a lovely naming ceremony at home on Saturday with around 25-30 people, and as it was - shock horror! - sunny, everyone had lunch out on the garden. Then the ungodlyparents all stayed for dinner, and the following day a few of us went to the zoo.
Despite grizzling a bit through the actual ceremony because they wanted to crawl not sit, then a small lunch-related meltdown, our two took it all remarkably in their stride, including having their playroom and bath-time invaded by lots of other babies!
No time to read catch up on everyone's posts just now, but quick <wave> to all. Just the 4000 loads of washing to catch up on now, 200 thank-you's to write and lots of leftover cake to eat.

Congratulations twelve I'm a bit weepy for you! What a true milestone you have reached very well done to you all and Happy 1st Birthday Little Twelves...

beyou I would be smug too! .

The dts have been decidedly grumpy devillike the last two days so we are heading off for an extremely long pm walk with my mum and the dog and taking food with us. Ok it's raining a little but rather than be stuck at home!

Oh and a bit of a sad day in the mines house. DH has made the decision to retire from his rugby playing days. He was hoping for one more season but has had too many injuries lately plus this recurring ankle injury and he can't afford time off work. He has been playing for 18 years+ twice a week training plus weekends it's going to be strange for the both of us! He is really really down about it! Trying to make him look on bright side the boys could end up there themselves in a few years if they want (and he's going to be taking them to all the matches now which means more time to myself on the weekend so it's a win-win as far as I'm concerned!) and he's on about possible doing reffing or they've offered him coaching so we'll see. He's today it's a big decision even for a smalltown player.

Have to go as am basically ignoring dt2 crying .

Oh thank you Mines. I had a proper blub on Sunday actually, partly post-party blues and also realising it was the anniversary of the day DS was ventilated and transferred and it all went to shit got all a bit traumatic.

Sorry to hear about your DH's injuries. DH and I used to do a lot of a sport as well, and I haven't been since before I got pregnant, and DH only once in the past year, so I know how much of a wrench it is. Made harder by the fact that both our work is connected to it too! Like you we've realised that the next big time committment is probably going to be when the DTs get involved in it, so best to enjoy a couple of years of free weekends while we can!

Sorry not to write more but have had a really naff day today, worst in a long time and can't help but think it was mainly my fault .

But just wanted to say congrats to Twelve, sounds like you had a wonderful weekend of celebrations .

Oh SKitoo, do you want to tell us about it, or chalk it up to experience and open the

Congratulations twelve what a massive milestone sounds as if you all had lots of fun

Sorry to hear your down skitoo it might make you feel better to share with us so we can remind you of all the good you do, and im are whatever has unsettled the babies is not your fault sending you a big hug

My Girlies have had a bad couple of days basically have gone back to not settling during the day and the crying/ screaming at night is getting worse!! Spoke to Dr who has prescribed colief so fingers crossed it works was feeling pretty shitty about it all until i was in tesco at checkout and babies were whinging and this old lady came up up and asked if she could have a look and said ooh lovely girls i have twin girls who are 45 now and they have brought me nothing but joy and she was so proud of them, and said she wished me the same how lovely xx

hope dream is ok I've not seen her post for a few days sending you lots of sleeping vibes and hoping your catching up on some zzzzz

skit it really does help to share and I bet you anything we've all got similar tales too we're all in the same boat weathering a storm with no paddles! You are not on your own at all.

twin I hope the colief works for you crying babies are so tough on the mother! How lovely of that lady too I can't get enough of when people say such mature and pleasant things, also she's been there and done that! One lady who's dts were grown up told me she remembered a time when they were both crying and she was stood on her doorstep in tears looking for any passer by to hold one for her! It shows that things get better of course and it's something every single mum has been through!

Oh yes twelve it does sound like a fun weekend!

claire and dream hope you two are feeling better, and I'm wondering where ceevee is? How are things with you?

Oh can't believe I forgot to mention that dt1 has a tooth! It's a nice little sharp one to bite me with! He has been so much happier the last few days than he has been for ages but unfortunately any peace is totally destroyed by dt2 who is cutting his first tooth badly plus he has a cold and an ulcer from running his tongue over his tooth so much so can't even use gel. This is where the joys of twins lie...alternate crying! (both together sucks too!)

Thanks everyone, feeling much better now, to be honest think more of it was in my head than anything else. In summary I had a bad nights sleep so think I woke up in a bad mood which apparently the little ones just fed off, we had a horrible day of grumpy babies who wouldn't nap which made them grumpier, which made me grumpier. Storm in a teacup really eh but I got it in my head that I was failing, things were never going to get better, blah, blah blah...poor DH .

So another day today and we had the babies from our twins ante-natal class round, 8 in total! Was lovely to catch up with the twin mummies and fantastic to see how all the babies have developed.

Ooh bet that was a hard decision for DH Mines, he's going to feel all lost come Saturday afternoon. Like your style for turning it in to a positive for you though . And a tooth! Is the whole teething phase as dreadful as it sounds, everyone I know seems to go through hell with it, so just thinking its going to be a nightmare with 2, either at the same time or for twice as long if different times, aaaarggghhhhh!!!

Twin2, hope the colief works. One thing that worked for my DT2 when he was younger and had awful belly problems was to lay him on his front. I was nervous to begin with but for ages now he has had all his daytime naps on his front as I couldn't get him to settle any other way.

Wondering what sort of a night we're going to have here...late this afternoon both the little ones started getting streaming noses and glassy eyes, so looks like they've got the cold going round. Both fed and went to bed fine but then DT1 started whimpering which turned in to howling, this never happens (am very lucky to have 2 good sleepers that you never hear of once they've gone to bed) so went in, settled, left, didnt settle so back in, couldn't settle, brought him downstairs and he really didn't look well and couldn't be comforted, so we decided to try the calpol (have only used it once before for DT1 after last lot of jabs), he took it and laid in my arms calming down and then promptly threw it and his feed all back up . Changed sleep bag, sleepsuit and put him back down and he seems to have settled himself back off to sleep - strange, we shall see.

Congrats twelve what a great milestone! I can see how emotional it was for you and I got emotional too just reading about it.

Sorry for radio silence but I've been spending the lazt few days with my head stuck in boxes... Trying to unpack after the move. Not easy with 2 babies even with mil here to help.

skitoo glad to see you're feeling better we all have those moments, it just goes with the territory unfortunately.

I think I had one of my scariest experiences as a mum the other day... I put the dts in their bath seats (with suction pads attached) and low water, thrn left to fetch something which took a bit longer to locate when I heard strange moaning sounds from the bathroom, ran in and dtg had managed to upturn herself!! Soo scary to think about what could have happened. Still shivering thinking about it.

That aside, we're settling in, dh and dd1 doing much better than dd2 and me, but it takes time.

V. tired so I'll wave goodbye.

(special wave to dream hope all ok)

Oh well done Claire for being there, and putting up with the mil in your new place and all the stresses of moving. I had a similar bath experience with DD- aged about 17 months, I left her sat playing in the bath and went to fetch something, heard a not-very-loud splosh, luckily raced back in and she'd slipped off the bath mat and was lying on the bottom of the bath, underwater, eyes and mouth open looking shocked. Plucked her out quick smart and no harm done but the terror lingers in my memory... Never left the bathroom since!!

skitoo, sounds like you're doing a great job. Lovely to have a good bunch of twin mums to chat to.

twelve, happy happy birthday to your little ones. I bet it was emotional. I found dds first birthday quite emotional but it helped as i was so distracted with killer morning sickness as i was 8-9 weeks pg with the dts by then and that was without the prem birth/ nicu experience. I've just found her second birthday a huge milestone of acceleration away from 'babyhood' and quite emotional too

Hope your girlies are doing better on colief twin2, I do think it helped my DT2 but too hard to give a bf baby and I gave up <bad mother>. How lovely of the lady in Tesco. Even my DT2 is much more settled now, he's 24 weeks. You'll get there, keep going and they do stop crying so much. I found the hours and hours of crying soul destroying, but literally 3 weeks ago I started dairy free for me and the crying is less and already the awfulness of it is fading a bit

I've hit the wall. Ongoing hourly getting up in the night with one or the other. I feel like I can't take much more, though what the alternative is I don't know. I'm fairly desperate now, finding I'm tearful in the evenings and nights, I'm feeling really exhausted. Been back to the doctor's for DT2, working theory atm is cows milk protein intolerance causing reflux so we are strictly dairy free for 1-2 months to see how he is, if he's really settled we're to cows milk challenge then. so far so good, no screaming with feeding now, but I'm still not 100% convinced he is cmpi.

Did you say your son is cmpi twelve? Have you got any hints/tips? If you've researched it, what do you think- his symptoms are/ were:
Incredibly 'colicky' and refluxy for his first 16-18 weeks, crying up to 6 hours a day
Projectile vomiting til bringing up bile as a baby, not very sicky now but clearly gulpy/refluxy still
No diarrhoea
Gave baby porridge-horrendous
Screaming at each feed, though settled in between feeds
I cut out dairy properly for two weeks. He stopped screaming at feeds
Ate a load of cake on dds birthday- harder to settle and more refluxy for a few days after that but ??? just coincidental/ maternal paranoia
He's chirpy between feeds even when I was cheating and eating dds cake and a bit of chocolate here and there...
Also, I asked re calcium supplements for me as they're ebf, doctor didn't know so not on any. She didn't give DT2 anything else to try for his reflux. Given up on gaviscon, didnt help.
Am I clutching at straws, looking for something to 'fix' to help me cope or could he be cmpi?!
As for the Incredible Non Sleeping Baby, DT1, I don't know what I'll do...

Sorry for the long me me me post, bit miserable ladies...

HI Dream
Yep, we went lacto-free with DS.
Basically in NICU neither of them would tolerate fortifier in expressed BM, so they moved onto 75 per cent ebm and 25 percent formula, and then when my supply didn't catch up with demand those ratios changed (but my mind is so scrambled I can't remember what to!).
They were sickly from Day 1, so they very quickly went onto Domperidone and Ranitidine, presumably as they were also so tiny their digestive systems needed some help.
ONce home I would bf, then give a small formula (prem formula) bottle with the reflux meds in, then a second top-up bottle of as much formula or ebm as they fancied (desperately trying to get milk into them). Dd seemed ok on it, but often Ds would just puke RIVERS of milk back up, it would've taken an hour to get it into him, then he'd fall asleep. Hellish. All milk in bottles also had thickener in to try and get it to stay down.
Even when he stopped puking we would often feed DS then put him in a bouncer to stay upright while I fed DD, and he could scream for almost an hour while I fed her - really writhing and turning into the chair to try and squirm away from the pain.
We phoned NICU in tears a few times and they suggested Comfort Milk (This was before the new reflux milks were around), which seemed to make only a very marginal difference. We also pushed his D&R meds up to maximum doseage.
But it still wasn't solving the problem, so around 5-6 months (he came home at 7 weeks so 4 months of trying) I was having a chat with our wonderful paediatrician on the phone, and we basically came out with 'or it could be lactose intolerance' simultaneously. We talked about me going lacto-free, but he wasn't taking a huge proportion of his milk by bf by then anyway, so we moved him onto Lactofree formula (Aptamil Pepti 1) and tapered off the bf. I stopped around 7 months (Dd stopped around 5 months).
No immediate overnight change on the lacto-free, definitely still some discomfort after feeds, but then we also started weaning, there was much less puking, and there was stage by stage a gradual improvement. Then moved onto more solids and Aptamil Pepti 2, and he started being more upright and mobile. I can't remember the exact time I noticed he'd stopped puking, but he was pooing loads so we stopped the Domperidone about 2 months ago (I htink, might've been less). I was nervous about stopping the Ranititine and brought it right down to one dose a day before bed, a few bad nights meant we kept it going but I think that was coincidence, and we stopped that entirely a couple of weeks ago.
Through weaning I kept him off all dairy and gluten until 8+ months, then gradually introduced gluten and Lacto-Free products (cheese & yoghurt) here which he seemed to tolerate well.
About a month ago we tried him on some brie (accidentally) and he was fine, and some yoghurt (deliberately) and he was grumpy but not pukey, so I'm still not sure if he is lacto intolerant or not, but he has been fundamentally reflux free since 7-8 months.

Sorry, that is a MONSTER post, but I wonder if any of it will sound familiar. The screaming after feeds but settled in between them in your post certainly was.
I will warn you that lacto-free formula is VILE and my latest battle has been getting him to take it at all (now they've turned one I've basically said 'Oh sod it!'), and we were on nowhwere near 600ml a day for ages. But he loves his solids and is thriving. and not puking or screaming

dream apologies as this is going to be a run and go post, but please do take calcium supplements if you're going dairy free. Really important as you're tandem nursing.

Also, maybe try and get referred to a dietician and paed if you are properly concerned. Dietary causes of things are so hard to work out you need prof guidance imo.

Right, off to toddler wrangle.

Thank you so much for the thorough post twelve. Some of it does sound similar, though less exreme. I'd say DT2 screams for 10 minutes after/ during food now for example. Not that its not a distressing 10 minutes, when the baby is clearly hungry, but feeding is also a grim process for him. An hour . That puts it in perspective. And yes to rivers if vomit earlier, projectile and profuse, but as he merely possets now and doesn't have diarrhoea.. oh its so hard to know!! I guess I only will by doing this dairy free period then dairy challenging. We are currently thinking he might be cows milk protein intolerant, not lactose intolerant, but who knows?!

Thanks rednellie. Yes, im concerned about the calcium. Ny mum is a dietetics secretary and asked the paeds dietician for me, who said I'd need prescription strength calcium as I'm ebf twins- hence my dash to the GP. She didn't know though, but is currently waiting a paeds dietician appointment for her own son for exactly the same problem she says, on 4th October, so she said she'd ask about calcium supplements then then ring me. Seems a bit of a wait to me... I rang my hv too, but she didn't know about calcium supplements either...

Oh, and red yes. Totally stumbling round in the dark wondering, trying not to jump to conclusions- I know I'd need professional opinion, preferably a paeds dietician, but my GP won't refer til I've done this 1-2 months dairy free... Another reason I rang hv- she's coming out on Tuesday to weigh. I think they're stacking it on though,both of them, so maybe its just reflux, as I've always thought, that he will grow out of by 8-9 months like twelves ds? <hopeful>

Sorry, I type very quickly

The hour screamathons weren't all reflux I think, but partly just wanting to be held, which I couldn't while feeding dd... Feckin hate those 'I've never let my baby cry for 10 seconds because it gives them massive attachment issues' threads. But they're both cheery chappies now

Hi dream glad you came back to post and dt2 is a little better no advice re supplements but just wanted to say that my ds2 had a cows milk allergy which wasnt diagnosed until he was nearly 3 basically because i managed his feeds so his weight gain was good, he had very colicky symptoms and was never interested in feeds struggled to get 4oz down him at a feed, was bottle feeding as he was very lazy and had not fed for over 48 hours when born ended up admitted to hospital and having a lumber puncture!! But that's another story lol, he also had frequent loose stools, we were under the hospital and advised that in most cases in children if you remove the food/milk for a year the child grows out of it i think the twins are showing some signs, and the colief appears to have taken effect already??? They have been quite settled today and both slept through last night but im not counting my chickens yet as it may just be a fluck?????!!!!! Fingers crossed

I took calcium supplements during pregnancy on docs advice, just bought some from my local pharmacy. A month seems a long time to be without.

I'm interested as various (unqualified) people have suggested I go dairy free cosof Dt2's exzema. What I worry about is its quite an extreme thing to do with no real proof it's the problem. I'm still convinced it's contact dermititis. Anyway, I wish you luck with it all. And with getting dt1 to sleep. Xx

We're finally ready ti move up to London this Saturday. Looking forward to it and dreading. ceevee if you're reading can I come play with ur twins gang?

In other news DD is totally spotty trained day and night and the boys are on 3 small meals a day. They're all growing so much. DD hiss grown 5cm since we measured and the boys don't fit anything.ggetting very expensive. I've started putting them in some of their sisters slightly more feminine hand me downs!

Hope you're all well.

red your dd is spotty trained?!? Sorry but that made me !

skit teething is not that bad more of a pain. DT1 was a whinger all flipping day with it but not to the point of yelling just grumpy but it went on for weeks on end. The last week they have been a little unsettled at night where have had to go to them 2 or 3 times a night bit of a pat/shush and one or 2 extra night feeds to help settle them. The worst night was 2 days ago when they were up from 2.30-4 but teething is more of a blip than a permanent screamathon! So far anyway. My friend told me teething is far less worse than colic and it really is so far. Colic is non-stop crying for hours on end right through the night after night after night until you really can't take one more second of it. Teething is intermittant crying that can be settled with sleeping in between .....

Hi guys, sorry not been posting but middle of the night lurking occurring! Dtrips are 6 weeks old, 2 days adjusted
Days are pretty groundhog but manageable so far due to mainly sleeping/eating. Nights however.....all are unsettled from 8ish, wanting to feed for ages then vomit up the milk, probably cause they have eaten so much. They won't sleep in their cot over night, despite being fine in there during the day, so we are getting minimal sleep. Am hoping now past due date they may start learning that night time is for sleeping .....
dream I feel for you, and I have only beenlike this for a few weeks. Hope you get to the bottom of the crying

Well done baileys, I'm in awe of you triplet mummies!

Just a quick post to say I had a multiple mummy meet up at my house today, 3 sets of twins and one set of triplets- it was lovely! One set of twins are 5 days older than mine, the triplets are exctly one month younger than mine (and sleeping through, sob- but hope for your baileeys!) and the other twins are 15 months, and DD loved playing with them. So feeling pretty chirpy, so thought I'd come on and say that instead of whinging for a change

Wow baileys well done you sounds like your coping fantastically with your little brood

Get you dream organising and hosting a get together i am very jealous as i can't seem to organise anything and just keep running out of time glad to hear you feeling a little better

My girls are now 12 weeks old i think i spoke too soon with the colief last couple of nights have not been great as one twin not settling so effectively awake from 2 ish until 5 and then up at 630!! They do seem a little more settled in the day however both now have runny poo and dt2 is quite slimy too am going to try reducing the dosage down to 3 drops and keep an eye on it

wishing you all a lovely weekend x

Just wanted to share some positive news with you as things have seemed so down over the last few weeks, the girls have been alot more settled in the day and have slept through for the last 2 nights!!! We are still having some crying at night and also the nappies are still a cause for concern but im feeling much brighter

Hope you all had a nice weekend even if the weather has changed??

skitoo quick question re the donkey, did you have any problems with Your carrycots fabric getting wet when it rains?? On the school run on Friday my bottom fabric got really wet and soaked the stuff in the basket underneath, i call bugaboo to check if waterproof which they said wasn't but said i was probably fitting the raincovers wrong, however they are not going to cover all the fabric?? Wish id gone for black fabric now as it looks awful when wet

Very jealous of those of you with twins groups - only time I've been to ours there's no one else, or completely different ages there. Which is wierd, because there are loads of twins in the area. Suspect the 9.30 start is part of the problem!

Just to quickly check in am reading the thread but not much time to post! My two have stinking snotty colds at the moment sleeping ok at night but daytimes are a bit off the straight and narrow. O well.....

Hi all,

Day of tramping round in the rain with the buggy again....

twelve there's no twins club near me, but I met a pregnant triplet mum at a playgroup we both used to take our elder dds to, hv put me in touch with another twin mum and a friend of a friend introduced me to the twin mum who had her girls 5 days before I had my boys. So i just invited them all round to mine, we decided we all get on and its nice to see other multiple mums so we are now looking into recruiting other local twin mums and hiring a room at a children's centre. I'll probably continue to host it til that happens- we are going for fortnightly.

So glad your girls are settling a bit twin2 . What do their brothers make of them now?

Rubbish about the colds mines. Mine are all snotty today <prays it doesn't make the nights more hellish still>

Oh and thinking of you and the London move red, and Claire, hope unpacking hello becomes a thing of the past soon!

Oh, and finally red, got a more settled DT2, I think... Fingers crossed. Slipped up and ate dairy and he now does have the baby squits and we had a really terrible night of reflux and fussiness too.. so no conclusions yet but maybe maybe it is the dairy. He's significantly more settled anyway. If it was this simple and i let him wail and vomit all those months I'll feel so bad...!!

Argh!!!!!! 3 dc with stinking colds = Dh and I up most of the night. Literally.
<sob>

Tell me any top tips for babies who won't be put down they're that bunged up.... Karvol plug in already tried!

Oh you poor thing. We had 2 with coughs and 1 teething over the weekend, no sleep for 2 nights here either.
Karvol, Calpol and chest rub is all I can think off for bunged up babes. Steam? Tis rubbish!

Baby Nurofen is good and a saline spray for boogas! I've got two snuffly babies and both are teething too (though dt1 has 2 now!). Hasn't affected their nights though. Last night they slept 7pm till 7.30 this am! (smug grin feel free to hate me)

Colds all round here as well... DT2 first, DH had a Sat night of dummy replacing when she kept waking herself up snuffling... but then she was fine for me. DT1 has just had 2 nights of it and hoping she's over it now. Both of them suddenly looking really chipper this morning, giggling and stuff, so that's nice... I wonder if this might be the end of the week 17 wonder week/4 month sleep regression?
Got an email from a friend of mine yesterday... her boy the latest of about a million babies who are younger than my two and yet have started sleeping through the night... I comfort myself that she's on baby number one and I am DONE! When she's going through this to have the second kid we'll have little 2 or 3 year old moppets... and every time we leave behind some annoying baby thing (not knowing night from day, reflux, 4 month sleep regression) we're not coming back.

I just read that Bumbos have been recalled in the US to get safety belts fitted... I thought it was just my two who were able to get out! A couple of weeks ago they just started to twist around in them and that was that. They hate the bouncy chairs so they're going to have to man up and learn to sit up if they want to see any of the world...

On week 2 of 4 week visit from inlaws just now. Give me strength. Latest outrage is from FIL who wants to wait to take pictures of the girls because DT1 is a bit baldy on top and he wants to see if her hair will grow in first! Jesus. Imagine getting judged on your looks by your granda at the age of 4 months! Mind you, my MIL always gives DH grief if he has spots... I think they are just very vain...

Ok, DH is out so I'm watching One Born twins on 4Od. There will be snivelling! Wish me luck...

Yep another pair with horrible colds here too . It's not nice is it, bless them. DT1 had it really bad, was sick too which is most unusual but that might have been due to having calpol for the first time? Dream, we popped a drop of olbas oil on a tissue and left that in their bedroom to try and help with the breathing. Over the worst of it now, just left with a bit of a cough.

Sorry for those of you having to deal with teeth at the same time. Any recommendations for teething remedies? I sense one might be coming our way soon.

Twin2 sorry no advice for the carrycots as to be honest they didn't get a great deal of use and can't recall taking them out in the rain. I tended to use the car seats and their rain covers as I actually thought the raincovers that came with it only worked once the seats were changed to pushchair seats? What colour fabric have you got then, is it staining?

Beyoglu, thanks for that little snippet above, I shall remember the "we're not coming back" quote when I'm having a moment . And cheeky inlaws, 4 weeks, that's brave of you!!

How's things in the big smoke Red, hope you're settling in.

WHY am I watching this? <forehead/wall moment)

dream the boys adore my Girlies and you should see the girls faces light up when they see them especially first thing in the morning don't feel bad about the dairy the drs go through so many other things before they get there my ds2 was nearly 3 when he was diagnosed, am thinking the girls are lactose intolerant as the colief has improved things loads and missed it on a feed yesterday and boy did we know it!!!

skitoo I've got the sand base and so wish id gone for black!! It doesn't appear to have stained but only got wet i will take photos next time, i do have car seats and rain covers but as its quite a walk to school were out for over an hour? I wanted to use the carry cots, we've still got a good couple of months that we need to use them??

Sorry only used them once??

Hi all - sorry for absence - I think I must have hidden this thread as its not been showing on my active convo list - thought you were all being very quiet and then I checked and wow, a hive of activity! I've not read all the posts yet but I saw twelve's DTs now 12 months old - many belated returns!!

We've just come back from a week in Mallorca with the inlaws - it was lovely and I was very proud of my little ones who were so good on the plane. Both had colds though and still have now, also DTS has 7 teeth now and is crawling and pulling up to standing. DTD has her first tooth but still happy to stay put for now. HV has referred her to physio as she won't bear weight and has generally been quite behind - think its an overreaction tbh, 10 months is not that late and she was so tiny, but if there is a problem then better to find out now

I'm back to work next week. Dreading it. Have stopped bf today ( was down to 1 feed a day anyway) as can't practically continue feeding in the morning and get ready for work - DTD wants to feed for an hour at a time, and DTS keeps biting me so it was time to stop. Am very .

Will read the thread tomorrow and my next post won't just be me me me!!

It's a bit late on the cold recs but anyone else tried snuffle babe? It's like baby-friendly vicks. I put it on the chest of DT1's babygro in the style that my mum used to do with me. Not sure if it's doing much though...

Also - my friend with the through the night sleeping baby just got back and said she thinks it's because she's EBF and he got bored with the effort of drinking in the night. Oh, just ffffuck off. I'm so sick of hearing the 100 million remedies for night feeding. They want it, they'll get it, no I don't like it, but they were born little and I can hardly grudge them the chance to make it up a bit.
Grr.

twelve I saw that oneborn multiples thing it was quite felt sorry for the mum that lost her twin to ttt.

ceevee your dts are doing amazing! And fab that you had such a good holiday too.

skit no teething advice sorry just all the usual remedies here. I've heard the teething powders are good but so expensive I haven't gone there yet...

beyou they will slee through when ready. You know this anyway! Mostly my dts sleep through until 6.30/7 but a few times a week they wake a little earlier. They are 8 months but they get that bottle and then sleep until 8.30am. Sleep is precious with babies I don't care how we go about getting it!

To thos who said they are glad to have their family complete I can't honestly agree....! I doubt we'll have any more now due to other circumstances though I'm not letting the idea go alltogether (am I mad?!). Yes babies are very very hard but I just feel a little that we may never experience some things again-and wonder if I've made the most of it so far? I suppose I'm thinking if I could do it all again how would I do it? I wouldn't get hung up on routines! and if I had one baby I would carry it alllll day! I wouldn't turn down help. The list is endless....

Hello hello hello everyone. I NEVER have time to post but I do try to keep up.

My two are asleep on my lap, so rather than slide them off and go and clean the toilet and fold clothes, thought I would leave them were they are and actually post!

Beyoglu, I think mine are the same age as yours (nearly 5 months) and are not 'sleeping through'. and yes people gloating saying about their babes sleeping all night annoys me sooo much. your girls will get there, as will my boys

red, have you moved? how is going? what a hectic couple of months you have had. finally in your new home now though I hope. how is you DT with the poorly skin?

good luck for going back to work ceevee! what childcare arrangements do you have?

dream, sorry things are still tough for you. how is the non-dairy going?

happy bdays to little twelves and little dream (belated) !

my two are huge and very cuddly! started solids last week (only one meal) and they love it, and for some reason this has coincided with them wanting to go to bed at 6.30.so all 3 DCs in bed by 7. lush!

harder to entertain in the day now though as what to be 'doing' all the time. hard work!
bugger, DT1 awake. will try to get back later

Hey bigboobs I've missed you! And well done on keeping track of what's going on, I'm totally lost, mainly as I only check mn whilst nursing at night on me new 'smart' phone. I can't bloody type on it as it makes me look like I can't write English. As a touch typer it is verrrrry frustrating.

Anyway. We're all good here. Moved in, DH had actually done a reasonable job getting the gaff set up, except he hadn't hoovered or bought one and what with DT2 being constantly slathered in emollient due to the eczema it meant he started resembling a fluffball. Yuk. He is still REALLY suffering, the steroid cream completely cleared it up. Then we stopped and it all came back again, worse. He's so sweet though and so good natured. I am worrying about the same thing as you dream, as he's also got gunky poo and I keep thinking maybe it is the dairy and it would be awful if it was and I could have made him feel better. Then my rational brain butts in and says only a tiny percent of children with eczema is related to food etc etc etc. Am trying to get referred to a paed to get some more useful advice. Meanwhile, he is sleeping better, but we do still get very long crying sessions at night. Sigh.

beyoglu, I personally threatened by my entire facebook address book with head butting if anyone dared tell me about their child who slept all night, so I do understand. However, as someone who is going through this whole thing for a second time, the positives do really outweigh the negatives. The two things that having more than one batch of kids has taught me is that:
a) children are born the way they are and you can't change them (so you may have one child who is a beautiful sleeper, think you're a marvelous parent ahem and then have another child who you do the same things with and they will not sleep for buggery.
b) having babies is a truly amazing thing, and when you get the chance to do it all over again you really do make the most of it. I've spent a lot more time gazing this time and a lot less reading books or going to baby classes!

baileys, if you're reading, huge congrats on your triplets progress. Sounds brilliant.

claire, how's the house? Happy with the move? Hope the girls are settling in their new school.

Love to all!

Ooh you've made me want to watch the One Born Twins now as I didn't catch it. Is it worth it, or will I just blub the whole way through?

Twin2, I got the black base with sand hoods, so you've reminded me that I must work out how to put the rain covers on properly, in advance of getting caught out.

Ceevee, sounds like your little ones are doing fabulously and 10 months is not late is it. You got to love the HV's haven't you! How have you found stopping breastfeeding? I'm planning on doing so in the next few weeks and am looking forward to it in some ways (shall be burning the nursing bras) but think I may miss it too...? Good luck for going back to work, are you going full or part time?

Can I ask what might be a dumb question but for those of you that bottle feed, how do you do the first bottle in the morning? I'm worried that mine won't be patient enough to wait for a fresh bottle to be made, as they currently enjoy being taken from cot shortly after waking, quick bum change and then in to my bed for their feed.

Bigboobs glad to hear that solids is going well, we've just started too and while DT1 is getting to grips with it and loving most things, DT2 pulls some amazing faces which definitely indicate that he is not loving it.

Mines I don't think we'll have any more but am with you in feeling that I'll probably never be pregnant again, won't go through labour again (which I strangely enjoyed) and won't get to experience being passed my newborn baby, as mine were whisked away to SCBU .

However like you Bigboobs am finding mine hardwork during the day at the moment. They seem to be in a phase of frustration as they can't move, are just starting to sit up but not for long, so are hating just lying there. DT1 is showing signs of having no patience whatsoever - don't know where he got that from .

Red, good to hear you're all moved in. What creams are you using for the eczema? DT2s is getting worse and I've held off using anything other than Aveeno so far but think we might need to.

Right off to search 4od.

Hello again all

I've read the past few days now but not everything, there is so much to get through!

Red welcome! I hope you have managed to settle in a bit? I'll PM you with details of the local twin playgroup. After a mere 2 hour flight to Spain with GPs in tow I am totally in awe of you somehow flying from Canada with baby twins and a toddler! And as for moving house/continents you, Claire and Skitoo are all much braver than me.

My DTS has eczema. We have been using a mild steroid cream, restricting baths to 3-4 times a week, using Oilatum bath emolient and Aqueous cream during bath and Oilatum cream afterwards. All on prescription so all free. And it seems to be working, it has definately got much better.

Skitoo I was very to stop breastfeeding but it just wasn't going to be possible to combine with work. I was a bit sore for the first day or so but its quickly gone away. We had exactly the same morning routine - nappy then into bed with me. So far I have been using readymade formula for their morning bottle, I take two sterilised bottles and two cartons upstairs when I go to bed,they have 5oz each and I use the remaining 2oz on their breakfast. I guess in 7-8 weeks time I can drop the formula and just give cows milk.

I'm going back 3 days a week, but will be transitioning (if that is a word) so starting with 2 days at first. We have a nanny - I just couldn't picture me being able to get two babies fed, dressed and dropped at a nursery before 8am so this way I get to leave them in their pj's. Also round here it is £70-80 per day per child in nursery so a nanny is actually cheaper!!

Its a corporate job so have to look smart - bit of a shock after 12 months in jeans and converse - been manically trying on all my work clothes and shoes to find that nothing fits so have been doing some last minute online shopping! How have my feet gone up a size??

skitoo definitely worth a watch made me feel very humbled and lucky that my pregnancy was uneventful in the whole and my little girls are healthy on the whole not one to watch whilst pg i think would add to the worry!!

Bad mummy here i make up all bottles in advance, my mw said she had to give me the most recent advice, however the risk is low and I've been a mummy before?? She also said that there is a guideline that says if you do have to make up a bottle in advance ie for a night feed you make it up as advised then cool it quickly and keep it at the back of the fridge not in the door

skitoo the raincovers are tight so definitely try them out

Lovely to hear from you bigboobs

Hey all
The One Born Twins and Triplets wasn't actually as traumatic as I thought it was going to be. Terribly sad for the lady who lost one to TTT, and I had a good blub at bits of the NICU footage (When the lovely DF to the preemies was saying "I'm a father… but I'm not yet" got me good and proper!), but it is interesting and just a sob-fest. Also made me feel a bit better in a way to hear lots of medical professionals saying 'multiples are great - but they're really high risk' as I always feel like a bit of drama llama!

Dream I know exactly what you mean about feeling guilty re the dairy, I thought 'God, we've put him through MONTHS of this'. But you have to try and remove the obvious things first, and there's still no guarantee that if we had gone dairy free earlier it would've worked. I have some cheesy pasta in the fridge I'm tempted to try him on to see if he can handle it now!

HI CeeVee, we keep bumping into each other on other threads! Our HV was very pro-active about the fact that ours didn't have pincer grips, I think given that twins are often born early & late to do things they err on the side of caution re. referring to physio. I wouldn't panic about it, but keep practising with DD when you can. Better to be on the radar for these things than off it!
I remember feeling terribly sad as I approached the end of breast feeding, but weirdly within a couple of weeks I couldn't imagine myself doing it at all. It's like my body had forgotten how. Very strange.
We have had a lovely nanny for a couple of days a week too and it is so much easier than nursery days - she doesn't just look after the babies, she does washing, makes meals, washes bottles, all stuff that has to be done after a day's work otherwise. Will be very sad when she finishes with us in a few weeks time.

Beyoglu we have the snuffle babe stuff too but I think the Karvol plug ins are better personally. They made me sleep well when we had the babies in our room anyhow

Mines & Skitoo I know exactly what you mean about never getting the chance to do it again - or in my case to feel like I've done it properly: third trimester, labour, holding a newborn, bf from day one, all that jazz. And to be honest months and months of the first year are just a blur, and I didn't take anywhere near enough photos or video of them . BUT they are just so awesome at the moment - smiling and giggling and waving and jabbering to each other and having crawling races, I am really enjoying them now when I don't have too much work on anyhow

Hi Bigboobs nice to see you pop in! Yay to the adult evenings again!

Red well done on getting all moved in, am so in awe. Our giant dog sheds a lot so we often have 2 little fur balls crawling around here too!

Think it was Skitoo who asked about bottles? We have always made ours up in advance - its what they did in NICU when they were poorly and vulnerable, so I figure it is safe enough at home as long as you're careful. (During our discharge briefing they basically said 'we're not allowed to advise you to do this, and we don't tell lots of people how we do it, but you're sensible, you've seen us doing it for weeks, so it's fine!). So super-vigilant on hygiene and sterilising, bottles made up with water around 75-80 degrees (we have kettle with temp gauge), then cooled quickly by standing in cold water, then into fridge and thrown away within 24 hours. Never had a problem.

Is that everyone? Oops, quick wave to Twin2 ! LOADS of work to do today so best be off.. a

NOT just a sob-fest <sigh>

mines, red I know you're right about treasuring the moments... and I do think it would be easier to do that second time round! Every time I get frustrated about <strike>sleep</strike> stuff I look at the two of them, gaining weight, looking around, doing new stuff every day... and I know we're all going to be fine. I think the whole recurrent mc thing coupled with not really knowing small babies made me feel as though they were just never going to grow out of being these tiny fragile things. Now I've got two robust self-burping 4 and a bit month olds and I can sort of see the light at the end of the tunnel and enjoy them a bit better. mines, I do have some empathy though. I get the shivery horros when I think of having more kids, but even then, yesterday I had to send off the consent form to the clinic for them not to store our remaining embryos any longer, and although I've never been surer of any decision than the one to stop at two children, still it was a bit sad. I guess before I had the girls and before the mcs I could entertain any possible life, lots of kids, no kids, and this is us getting older and the possibilities narrowing down to one life. It's a good life though.

Is that a new series of OBEM? I saw the twin delivery in the last one and I thought "oh my god the obstetrician is holding the second one's head in place there is no way I am doing that" but I did. But I was epiduralled up to the eyeballs while this woman did it on gas and air. Respect.

beyoglu you just made me cry. What a lovely sentiment.

Ps that woman in OBEM - that's what happened to me! My eyes still water.

<waves tiredly>

Just stopping in to say hi. Colds still raging here, plus baby diarrhoea.. causing 57,4678 pooey nappies a day (& night). They've definitely got a virus. Karvol plug in is my only hope.

red, hurrah for your new place, hope poor DT2's skin clears up again soon. Love the fluff ball description . So hard about the dairy, I'm still not sure (obviously, we're still on elimination, not dairy challenged yet) but so far so good. Though of course it could be unrelated and he could just be growing out of his reflux. Seeing as its just 1 month its worth a shot I figure. My ex had dairy triggered exczema. He still ate cheese and suffered <useless information alert>

I'm with those on the sad to think of never having another baby. Especially as my 3 are only one school year apart so I'll go from a full house to empty practically overnight. I also felt quite emotional reading your post beyoglu about the wide open options narrowing down but its so true.

Oh, and we have no where near enough pics of the boys too...

Err, bit more than a pop on. Got to go, literally getting 3 hours sleep if I'm lucky with my three ill ones. Will my twins be the only ones not sleeping at ridiculous old ages ?! <still despairing>

ceevee can't wait to hear from you.

red I am in awe.

Yeah my ob declared she one knew me in s biblical way. Nice.

beyou now I'm blubbing a little bit what a lovely way to put things!

red I don't remember which woman you mean (didn't see it all) care to share? or dare to share ;)

dream no we're not getting much sleep either (definate karma there regarding my earlier boastful post!) dt2 is waking all the time now and dt1 has a minging teething rash on his face. I have to say though I'm looking forward to them both being at school together the possibilties....

I've had a letter from work regarding my new hours and feel a bit but was so excited they really are better than I could have asked for! 6 weeks to go! I will miss the boys terribly please don't get me wrong but I feel the need to work/family balance works both ways in my instance I feel whilst on maternity leave I lack a bit of drive and motivation as it's the same thing every day returning to work will hopefully give me a bit of a boost as I feel useful to the outside world again! It's not for everyone though I appreciate that and really admire those that are sahm and also work full time as for me these options seem such hard work!

Rah. Shut up Minesa!

red and at your ob knowing you in a biblical way!! You're hardcore. It's true.

I'm sad and tired. Day 5 of diarrhoea for DT2 and day 3.5 for DT1 but now his bottom is like a baboon's arse. Red raw. Cotton wool and water gentle as possible nappy changes are causing him such distress . He's had 14 nappy changes today, dt2 10, tummies just not settling. I feel terrible for them, and their colds are still raging too. <weeps a little>

Respect to you for not being melodramatic over your DT2 who must be worse as its not just his bottom red, I'm hopeless when the children are in pain. Ok at the time for them, but I get weepy when they're in bed...

Hurray for great hours minesa, better than you'd hoped for then?

Yay to the good work hours minesa!

Lovely post beyoglu, I know what you mean - but also I'm kind of glad to have some options ticked off. After not really believing we would get pregnant (not particular problems, just luck/timing!), then all the uncertainty of the pregnancy, then all the waiting in hospital etc, it actually feels ok to go 'OK, that's us now!'. Doesn't mean I don't have a bit of me going 'But what about another....?' though

<DH runs away screaming >

yes dream cracking hours I'm going to enjoy being part time! Regarding your poor poor dts could it be teething? I know I put everything down to teething but thats cos it's such a pain in the arse if you can excuse the expression. It must be difficult to leave nappies off too if they have diarrea-nappy off is great for soreness but can cause a major clean up operation in my (pukey) experience!

I don't understand the 'knowing you in a biblical way' comment yet it makes me want to cross my legs automatically! (yep I'm a closet blonde).

Had a great evening won a little bit at Bingo which will pay for the next stage car seats they will be required soon though dts not old enough yet they are humungous so whilst I have the moolah will be nice to have them put away ready for when they reach that age-weight off the mind. Plus enough money to have two in my car and two in dh's car if we feel like being extravegent and making life too easy. Will def help with all the toing and froing when I go back to work as dh will be picking them up some days too. I did have a taxi driver shout 'fucking women drivers' at me tonight though-I deserved it a little! .

Crikey, if your car seats are anything like mine that's quite a bingo win! We have a Euromillions ticket somewhere, must root it out - if you don't hear from me, I'm on a private island.

Dream, your poor DS. I assume you've tried Metanium? It's the wonder cream for sore bottoms in this house but we've never had it that bad.

what can I say I'm the bingo queen (that sounded better in my head ?
Ooh just remembered went to tesco this am took twice as long as I should have as everyone was gushing over the dts today! One old lady said she was one of 13 dc's (me- ) said she didn't think her parents had many hobbies! Turned back to see dt2 licking a ladies coat-she was fine about it though!

Oh mines you just made me giggle so much I almost dropped dt 2 off my lap. Congrats on the work and bingo result! Quick go buy a lottery ticket, it's your week.

Ob had to reach in and pull dt2 down to make sure he didn't go for a stroll once dt1 came out. It was an 'interesting' sensation.

dream, really bad nappy rash is awful. God I remember DDI getting to the point since where it was almost weeping. I've tried that metatium stuff, but dt2 can't take it due to his excema so I've stopped using. Best thing I found is just have nappies off almost constantly and make sure they dry off completely each nappy change. And bad nappy rash hurts way more than excema but it isn't a chronic condition. Swings and roundabouts, eh?

red I just can't imagine that! Did you have an epidural? My hospital advised it I couldn't imagine doing 'that' without one! I have bought a lottery ticket today (not a chronic gambler I promise --though it was bought with thunderball winnings--) odds on I won't win!

dream how are you doing? I feel for you it must be soooo hard plus I get the sense you like sleep? double hard!!!

My dts (dt2) is waking for night feeds regaukarly again. After a 5am feed though they woke at 8.45 today! Cue mummy guilt! But sleep is nice! This will be changing when I go back to work mwah ha ha revenge is mine. Oh my new hours will be Mon-8.30-6.30 (thinking will get bank hols off no time in lieu in that place!) Tues 8.30-3.30 and Fri 2.30-6.30. Expected three late nights so am happy! Will have to leave house 7.30 on just 2 days and Fri pm dh will have them. I'm still bouncing!

Dh has taken dts to rugby again. He says he doesn't care what they like when theyre older but taking 8mo old's to rugby regularly tells me otherwise!

Oh speaking of..has anyone watched MTV The Valleys? I really really don't blame you if you haven't it's dreadful! But if you did....I know Liam fairly well he plays for dh's (rugby) team and dj'ed our engagement. He's a lovely bloke have no idea, not a clue, nada, what he's doing in there with them pile of misfits, degenerates, slags. It's definately not a true depiction of us either. We are rough and ready yes but not that ridiculous! (red knows!)

I love talking to you all you and can't believe I never mentioned this before but was a bit . Last weekend I was out for my friend's birthday and I got so drunk so emotional kept going on and on about unresolved issues surrounding dts birth and early days. This isn't me at all! So maybe it's still a hang up? Am seeing said friend tomorrow. She's gonna take boys swimming with me (whole other issue last time they hated change rooms and screamed and screamed...) so going to have a good chat with her. It made me think of twelve and that she feels still about nicu even though my story is a bit I still feel emotional. I suppose the only way we'll be ok with it is to realise it can't be changed, and move on.

On that depressing note I'm out of here!

Waves at you all girls! xx

<Swings by whistling to Abba's Bingo Dancing Queen>

Mines only just realised you're a Valleys girl! I have friends who used to hound follow Ebbw players!

Out and busy for a couple of days and I miss so much...will have to catch up properly later, as DH just gone to pick up curry (yum) and need to get those damn bottles done that I have now become a slave to - anyone else hate the whole washing/sterilising process, or just me being weird .

Dream, hope boys bums are improving, poor little tinkers. Only had nappy rash once and Bepanthen did the trick, slapped it on thick!

On the same subject we had our first post solids poo today .

Mines whoop whoop on the bingo win! Fingers crossed you're on a roll and some numbers come in for you tonight. Nice to have the cash stashed for the car seats, what age do we have to swap those over? Bless you for your drunken emotional outlet, can see me falling foul to one of those (as soon as I can get myself in that state).

Right going to have to finish later, curry here.

Hello all,

<joins the Abba whistling>

Fabulous bingo win minesa . Is the dts birth a story you want to share here? I'm still a bit traumatised by dds birth and she's 2

Slightly better here today, I am stripping DT1 for every nappy change and putting him in the sink, so no washing/rubbing. then allowing to completely air dry, then cream (the only traumatic bit with screaming) then nappy. All takes a while, loads of pooey towels for the wash from drying times (& more sink action...& repeat) so a lot of time and effort has gone into his bum but it has gone from bleeding in parts to red and sore but miles better in just 24 hours of this. Phew. Still horrible diarrhoea for both but not quite as frequent as yesterday so everything crossed, this too shall pass and all but please, please less pooing in the night, the washing process is SO much harder then! DD and DT2 are nappy rash resistant it seems so horrible shock how bad DT1 got so fast.

I don't dare think of next stage car seats. DD is in an extended rear facer. I'd wanted her rf til 4, but no idea how I'll get three in ERF car seats in a row and get the child in the middle in/out... Maybe I'll try to hang on as long as possible and turn DD round at 3 but can't see boys fitting their maxi cosi seats to anywhere near 18 months...they're tall.

Met 6 month old twin girls at the music group we go to this week. Really sweet, also non id and interested in joining this twins group I'm trying to start. . Incidentally, they were dressed identically- does anyone on here dress their duo the same? I'm interested as Tamba are so strong in presenting the opinion they are all individuals and shouldn't be dresses to match from what I can gather. Mine wear the same sometimes as i buy some clothes from the twin mum with 15 mo boys and she often dresses her id boys identically (awkward for me as I just can't tell them apart!).

Lovely to see your posts bigboobs and ceevee I'd missed you both!

Oh, and I'm finally getting on better with my three by myself. There's obviously still lots of times I have to leave a baby crying but not the constant crying of the earlier months. DT2 is still much happier, no screaming with feeds, though they've been weighed and he's caught up!! They were exactly the same, to the . whatever (forgotten already ) . Makes me think he really can't be cmpi, faltering growth is such a hallmark of intolerance and he's just stacked weight on since their birth. So roll on dairy challenge date plus, I'm loathing dairy free, most importantly

Rubbish, DT2 woken up, going to have to get Dh as I'm sat with DD, still trying to get her to calm down and go to sleep... (Back to the bad old days of the Landing Vigil if those who supported me through the huge sleep issues/ deprivation we had with her through my pg with the dts remember! Urgh.)

Gosh Dream that sounds awful. I really hope that it clears up soon, that's not nice for either of you. And sorry to hear you're camping out on the landing again, fingers crossed its a one off or much shorter phase than last time. No, my little men are very rarely dressed exactly the same but often similar. So they might have the same jeans on and then different tops or same things but in different colours. However they look so different, one dark haired and brown eyes and the other blond and blue eyed that there's no confusion.

Mines trust you are off celebrating your next big win . Hope you have a good chat with your friend tomorrow and that swimming is a better experience this time. I frequently beat myself up about not being able to keep my little ones in me longer and them having to go through the whole SCBU thing. I watch the video all the time that my DH went and took of the boys in their incubators while I was still in theatre so I could see them and it just kills me , but like you say, there's no changing it and we are lucky to all have happy healthy babies now.

Fab news on the working hours. With a few of you going back to work its made me think about it, as I'm definitely lacking a bit of oomph, not sure which way it's going to go for me yet .

Beyoglu, that was such a lovely way to say things. Maybe a similar journey, so thank you for writing that.

Hello all,
Sorry fir long silence, but I've been very busy unpacking, even though I have been keeping up with the news during night feeds (hope it makes you feel better, beyougly was it you? Mine are nearly 8 montgs and dtb woke up 3 times in the night!)

I am hitting a new liw, partly due to mil here, I reallg ned MY space after two weeks, but at the same time we've hit a stage where it's really really hard looking after them on my own. There is lots of crying and wznting to be held which us just impossible to do. This makes me very depressed as I hate not being able to be independent but am I making all my children miserable by not wanting help? I can hardly care for the twins without lots of crying, let alone having time for my older two... And they need lots of it. I am just soo unhappy at the moment and cant even share with dh, as his solution is having mil to stay more and that is part if the problem. Damned if do damned if you dont.

Sorry for lack of personala, I now have two crying babies to see to aaaargh

No lottery win! My luck ran out on Friday! Just a quick question but is it normal for an 8mo old to drop their morning nap? (arrrgghhh). The past 2 weeks dt2 has only slept 30mins in the am. I put it down to teeth (again) as as soon as dt1 had a tooth he started sleeping 1 1/2-2 hours in the am. Anyway yesterday and today he has fought it so much I've got him up and he's playing happily not even looking tired or grizzling! He slept yesterday pm though. The other thing is his intemittant waking became a 12 hour sleep last night after just one nap in the day don't know if it's connected? Going to keep trying over next few days and if not will keep him up until pm nap. Am hoping they will both sleep a long nap then as I would like 5mins peace at some point! This can't be normal-bloody non sleeping babies!!!!

Every baby is different though-dt1 currently been starfishing cot for approx 1 1/4hr.

claire sorry I had missed your post then. Am really sorry you are feeling low. And with two older dc's. It's hard isn't it? Everything is just a phase though. I know mil gets on your nerves but I would abuse her help to the max at the moment. Would she look after dts so you can spend time with your other children? or will dh taske them out in pushchair? I enlist dh's help often and I don't have any other dc's am just lazy! Hope you feel better soon x

It appears I missed a few posts! Yay dream glad you feel better about things that is very good news! twelve Ebbw Vale? Ah yes cos thats where all the talent lies !!!

Claire sorry to hear you're feeling so rubbish at the moment. I second what Mines suggested and rope her in to help but maybe split up, her taking twins and you the older DCs, so she's not in your face under your feet - is that possible? It's so much easier when you've got another pair of hands to help but I hate having anyone who isn't DH too. Here's an assortment of to cheer you up.

Mines, I'm definitely not the person to pass on advice regarding naps - mine are awful and I'm obsessed with it. Mine are really random with their naps and i have no idea how to make it more consistent. They tend to nap for max 45 mins am, anywhere between 45 mins and 2 hours at lunchtime and another 45 mins late afternoon. They both often struggle to make it through to another sleep cycle once they stir from the first but they're both good at night so don't feel like I can complain too much, even if I would like more time to myself during the day. Another phase I guess, just to keep us on our toes .

claire, I totally understand how you feel. I've had more time on my own with my three, whole days too (I'd always had someone popping in before) and discovered I can manage playgroups etc by myself, though it is a huge effort, but also so nice to just be me and the children- no 1:1 attention for any of them, ever though. I am so lucky to have a nanny help me 2 days a week but I still find having her around really hard, the someone being there all day, even if things are going ok, and I'd like to chat to a friend who's come over in peace etc. I'm clearly entirely ungrateful. I think it's a balance, I need the help to enable me to look after my 3 how I'd like to. Its not even like my DD goes to any nusrery sessions yet either, so I am with them 24/7, and if I don't have help, my quality time with any is so limited. I know it's harder for you though because your MIL has to stay and can't come for a morning/afternoon/day due to the distances. If its any help at all, I read a post in 'multiple births' from someone saying they felt they couldn't do it any more, it was harder than ever at 9 months and I was surprised and horrified that lots of respondents said that was a really hard time for them too. So, I'm also saying this really hard bit is a phase, a short phase and nothing but a phase. oon, you will be more settled in, the dts will be easier, your older DDs have a wonderful mum and will have a little understanding of how stretched you are- not that I'm saying they don't need your time and attention, just that they'll understand a bit, even if they're still frustrated if you talk to them about how you wish you could do x, y and z with them but will have to wait a bit... Maybe a babysitter again would be a good temporary solution? To take the dts somewhere, so you can spend time with your older DDs, or vice versa?

Mine still have diarrhoea, 7 days for one, 6.5 for the other now, so maybe take a stool sample to the doctors tomorrow, just in case... I'm sure it'll be a virus, especially if I do take them to the doctor, but it really is going on and on and not getting a million miles better. The lengthy and laborious strip, wash, air dry, cream is working for the nappy rash, no tears even when putting the cream on today though, so I'm happy

Anyway, I'm shattered, best head for bed, just wanted to pop on and reply to you claire, and say I've been thinking of you Amazon man has been a fair bit recently too and you are also irrovocably connected to the Amazon delivery service in my head still!

<Waves to everyone else>

Oh Claire I'm so sorry you're having a rough time. Quite frankly I manage far better in my own then when people help, apart from my mum and even then, I still think it's easier when I'm following my own routine. I don't know, but from what you've said previously I reckon you'd be better off without the .mil, but maybe just get some regular babysitter type. A relaxed mum is worth a thousand annoying 'helpful' relatives!

I'm finding this phase quite lovely .si I'm not listening to you dream! Glad nappy rash is improving but the pooing I'd want checked out if it had gone on that long. So sorry your DD has got you back on the landing. That phase wasn't fun at all.

mines not watching the valley, but I can imagine. And no, didn't have an epidural. Or gas and air. I'm mad me

Right, off to feed the noises buggers. When will they give up the 10pm feed?

Hey claire thinking of you here as well. i am with red in that I actually seem to cope better on my own. But I only have 3 and only 2 year age gap so actually probably easier to entertain and give attention to all three.... and the simple things do the trick still, like cake in a cafe or running up and down supermarket aisle! You have older DCs that I am sure need a little more than that! Things will get better and you have survived such upheaval! Things must get easier soon for you soon as you have dealt with so much recently what with the move.

dream you sound so much happier! must be getting a little easier if you sound chirpier even with all the poo! Any better today? And well done for having all 3 on your own successfully! I only have all three one whole day a week and one morning a week. My parents come up one afternoon every Monday (a 4 hour round trip on the train bless them - before you ask they are always more than welcome to stay but they are very busy people and have so much on back at home!), and DD is in nursery three days a week (kept this going as these are the days I usually work) - so just have the boys on those days - and then DH here at weekends of course. So all in all I feel I have a good balance.

On the days I have all three I get out as much as I can - usually out for lunch to Starbucks!! I always get loads of attention because of the boys and loads of compliments getting out the house with the three of them - so I always feel like superwoman by the end of the day and bizarrely that day is sometimes one of my easiest, I think DD actually makes the day more enjoyable and definitely helps entertain the boys.

My 2 are 5 months now - and going to have to put them in 9-12 moonths clothes soon as 6-9 is so tight on them already! Not just chubby babies but really long as well. DH is very tall and I am quite tall so not surprising really. No one believes me when I say how old they are! Still no rolling over but they sit up well with support and already manage well on their high chairs (the chubbiness helps wedge them up straight!). I am going to upload a piccie of them in their high chairs from a couple of weeks ago for you to have a look if you want - but will take it down again soon (still freeked by that troll we had weirdo)

Weaning going great, although still only one 'meal' a day - going to make it two this week I think. Nights still inteupted once for a feed and then other times most nights for resettling. Teething gel stops them crying so think that the whole teething thing has started . And DD wakes several times at the mo because she wants her covers back on..... when will she learn to do this herself!!!

Skitoo, similar nap patterns (or lack of) here - DD did not start longer naps until about 9 months I think. DTs have the odd 45 minutes here and there throughout the day! Luckily their sleep usually over laps to at least some extent.

Red, I am wincing at 'reaching in'

Where is BB3? Hope all is ok

DT2 awake and Peppa Pig has finished so have to go

Afternoon all!

Yes, I was so worried about having all 3 and it isn't half as bad as I thought- I have had some disaters though- think feeding ducks, toddler running towards water while both babies scream like they're being boiled in oil etc, one playgroup one where I'd gone to a new group so knew no-one, I left one baby sleeping in the car in the car park (visible from the group), went to check him and the play kitchen got pulled over on DD while I was gone and she was distraught, plus crying baby she wouldn't let anyone else help her as they were all strangers to her... and we went to the Lake District 2 or 3 times successfully (with dh), but twas a proper nightmare last time... So I wouldn't say it was easy, but I find being out of the house much easier than being in, boys are less whingey, DD isn't bored so we're mostly out!

Boys still ill. 5 bouts of diarrhoea between them overnight, dt1 has been 7 times so far today, dt2 3, nightmare. Been to the doctors with the boys today- poo samples sent off for both (which of course means they'll be better by this evening, right?!). I have a steroid and anti fungal cream prescribed for poor DT1 of the baboon-arse status. It is better than when it was at its worst, but not good. Still stripping and washing and no rubbing/wiping for every nappy change- laborious doesn't even begin to describe it, and going through about 2 towels every change as more runny poo before I've even got a nappy back on frequently. I'm traumatised by all the poo!!!!

Oh, and DD keeps getting up for hours in the night, meaning as I usually have at least one baby up (probably in the bloody sink) at the minute, there's no rest for dh and I, even less than usual.

So all in all I'm not sure why I'm chirpy, but i still feel ok

Not heard about my career break yet, and I am worried about that- I'm desperate to get it, and not have to go back to work when the dts are 11 months old, I'd be gutted to leave them. It's not looking promising though, as I was told I'd get it if they can recruit to my job- so 15 hours a week, fixed term contract, and they've nobody suitable applying, its been out to advert 4 or 5 times now

Dying to see your boys bigboobs, and can I ask the obvious?! Are they easy or difficult to tell apart? (maybe it'll be clearer if I looked at your pic first!). Mine are 6 months on Thursday, and just going into 6-9 clothing and I thought mine were big! On DDs wallchart (an 'as tall as' one) I am the height of an average British woman (boooring) and dh is in the top 3%, and a giant! Dreading the move to a bed for DD... how long can I keep her in her cot for?! Did you have getting out problems?

for claire

I hope you get your career break agreed Dream. Have you started to plan in case it is not? what will you do for child care?

My DD is also up every night, several times - often harder work than the DTs! We moved her to a proper single bed with bed guard when she was 19 months. She has never got hereslf out of bed! Always calls for one of us. Its as if she hasnt actually worked out she can get herself out anytime she wants!

Boys look quite different to me - an obvious difference is one has more hair! but if they have hats on or are snuggled in their pushchair then they loook exactly the same! DD is the only one that gets them the right way round every time!

Dreaming you should tell your employer to advertise on mumsnet, I bet there are loads of mums who want a 15 hr week!
Sorry for quick post, am sat in dentist waiting room, getting my free checkup- what a great way to spend last day before I go back to work tomorrow!

bigboobs interesting to hear about the weaning... these guys are 23w uncorrected and getting soooo bloody hungry! Up to basically hourly feeding between 2 and 5pm...

I only now have been able to bring myself to say this but yesterday was awful awful awful the worst day I have had as a mother even over colic and reflux which was awful too. I am a fricking terrible mother. Swimming went well dt2 was a little whingy but dt1 loved it laughing and splashing. dt1 got grumpy so took him out got him dressed and met my friend in other cubicle when she got out. She wasn't dressed and I was so I said I'd take dt1 to dress him and as there was no baby changing thing available at the time I put dt2 on the little bench thing. I was stood right next to him but omg why why why why why why.... Obviously, immeditely, he rolled off and smack onto tiled floor. I am probably being slightly overdramatic but this is how it goes in all the fricking replays in my head. He was fine for the record screamed of course but didn't hit head no marks no bruises laughing and eating within the hour. I've cried for 2 days.

It doesn't end there. This am I left dts on lounge floor for 2 mins while I brushed my teeth in bathroom next door to the lounge. Came back and dt1 had pulled baby monitor down and was about to chew the wire . One mistake sucks, 2 is just not good enough (have baby proofed today). (Awaits SS now)

.

I'm feeling good at the mo - weaning is going so well, they're eating loads, both spoon fed and self feeding, DT2 has started rolling/crawling everywhere, DD is being nice to her brothers far more than she's rough, DT1 is burbling like mad and actually came out with dada today and I'm totally coping with them on my own all week.

And it's my birthday! I know this is a total boast fest, but I do know I've moaned loads in the past and felt something upbeat on my birthday was appropriate! Now all we need to do is work out how to make them sleep at night and we're sorted.....And I've been offered work after Christmas. Whoop!

Happy birthday red, and have a glass of on me!!

Oh and minesa you are NOT a bad mother, it's very hard keeping your eye on two wriggly babies at once and my two are always whacking their heads on furniture and wooden floors - in fact DTS grabbed my coffee cup (thankfully only lukewarm) and poured it over himself only last week, if he had done it 15 mins earlier he would have been badly scalded. We are all only human!

God mines bad cross posting! Here's me bragging about the joys of the world and there's you beating yourself up. But please don't beat yourself up - I'll never forget when DD pulled an entire pint over DH. Helped prove my point that she had amazing reach though!

Only today I discovered DT2 chewing on the tv cable thanks to his new rolling prowess...

right, try and get up the thread while I'm ignoring the chattering from upstairs while the wee ones are still asleep:

claire I hope things are getting easier. My in-laws are here as well and they are driving me up the effing wall. My OH is away at a work thing for a week and they are helping me with the girls but all I actually need in the way of help is someone to feed and settle one to bed at night and then it helps if someone is around from 8 till half 10 to be on babby duty so I can put some earplugs in and really sleep... but that's all. But they hang around all day and want to eat lunch sitting down and have conversations about the state of the world. In German. And my father in law has a sideline in sounding forth about things he knows nothing about, like yesterday he was making this big point about inflation that showed he doesn't actually know what it is, to me, and you know where I work... roll on Saturday.

dream glad to hear the boys are pulling through. My god that sounds like a lot of washing!

mines in August I was trying to settle the girls to bed on my own and both were crying so I was trying to hold DT2 while shoogling DT1... and I thought, I'll just put DT2 down in DT1's cot so I can shoogle them both together... and DT2 wriggled slightly and I dropped her on her sister. Cue massive crying burst from both of them... and when DT1 was about 8 weeks old I was putting her back in bed after her night feed and I tripped and fell over. She was OK, I managed to shield her, but still. Unfortunately becoming a mum has not turned me into a non-clumsy person...

Oh plenty of bumps and bashes here too - Mines you're so not a bad parent! I also think it would take me a while to chew through an electric cable, even our dog never managed it, but htat might be being a bit lax!

Hope things are getting better for those of you with pooey and snotty babies - I don't know if it's their age or nursery, but our two now permanently have crusty noses. I miss lovely newborn complexions (but not the vomiting and screaming that went with it!)!

ANd those of you with PILs staying... really, have a on me. I can only manage a couple of hours of mine with DH here, so days on end would drive me completely potty. Beyoglu I am intrigued by what your job is now though!

ALl mostly fine here apart from the fact that DS is very physical, and very testing - you pick him up if he doesn't want to be picked up and he thrashes back and forward, headbutting you if you're too close. DOn't pick him up when he wants and he bites you on the leg! Nappy cahnges now involve sitting on him the floor to restrain him. High chairs, baths and buggies are to be escaped from... It's EXHAUSTING and now DD, who I don't think would do any of this otherwise, is starting to copy him. I know he's not a little little baby to be kept happy at all costs, but I can't rationalise with him either! Any one with older DCs got any tips?!

I feel better reading some of these thanks all. Tbh theres been loads of little close shaves but this one really shook me up. O well I've learnt my lesson and thank goodness he is ok!

Happy Birthday for yesterday red and honestly you never moan you are so cheery!

It's my 8th wedding anniversary today and dh has two days off went shopping yesterday but as weather not too good have decided to spend the day at home with our babies...I'm already climbing the walls! We're off for meal tonight though my parents are having the dts overnight so lie in for me on my own when dh goes back to work tomorrow!

beyou it sounds like a complete mare at yours! If they really want to do the whole sit down to lunch and talk thing I suggest dumping a baby on each of them and seeing how clever fil can be whilst eating one handed and restraining a baby! My own fil (I feel a bit disloyal saying this but it is true!) is a complete know it all gets on my fecking nerves and I usually just ignore him when he goes off on one. He puts too much emphasis on intelligence and social class, and has tried to instill that in his own children. It is the way he was brought up though and can't be helped. Looks very stupid though when he goes on about things like he's right when he isn't!

Sorry for those I've missed dt2 is grizzling in cot -no morning nap again then!

twelve I'm a statistician at the Bank of England! My job isn't directly related to the inflation target but, you know, you pick up a fair bit...

mines my FIL is a bit like that as well except with him it's about aspiring to be an intellectual without actually being very intellectual! He's always picking up some impressive book but I never bloody see him reading them, just talking about them...

Who was asking about naps at 8m? Marc Weissbluth (the cry it out guy) says the morning nap goes between month 10 and 12, leaving one middle of the day nap. Elizabeth Pantley says somewhere between 9 and 12 months it might get dropped. Mind you those guys say my guys should be doing 2 hour stretches at lunchtime. Yeah right...

Ha ha! I was thinking 'Well unless she works for the BoE or something maybe he's just a bit old-fashioned....!'

Hey minesa have a read of this thread...

Well first day at work over with, all fine. But nanny had a bad day, was walking them in the pram and a stupid cyclist came flying round the corner and clattered them, thankfully were strapped in the pram and no harm done but she was shook up on her first day in charge. Hope she comes back tomorrow!!

ceevee I needed that! Though I admitted told my mum today and she sniggered which is not like her so starting to think it's not so bad! Also your poor nany bless her what an awful thing to happen! Thank god all was ok though. Makes you wonder why we ever leave the house then we eye up the tv cables and wooden floors....

Different note. Am saying my prayers tonight for little April Jones and her family.

hello

thank you so much for all your kind words..., really appreciate your support. today's day 3 of being on my own and its not bad at all but the unpacking has ground to a complete standStill

mines I've also had a fair few crap mother moment, when dtg overturned in the bath with her seat, as the the suction pads will not stick to the bath in the new house

and yesterday I was feeding her while dtb was in his playpen, but out of my sight.. I could hear him crying but his sister was just falling asleep and I didn't want to wke her so by the time I get to him he has been sick all over the playpen...guil guilt guilt, and lots of washing..

dream how's the diarrhea going? hope it's clearing up.

rednellie how are you settling in? hope the excema is getting better and happy belated birthday

ok got to mleave as dtg crying now... might be a while before I'M Back so waving all the others

Hello hello! We're doing alright but our stuff from Canada is turning up on Monday and we have no more room. Our landlady has also informed us that she'll prob be kicking us out after 6 months, which she can but we'd never have moved if we'd known! So another move to look forward to. Bugger

Apart from that all well. The children are all great. I may be joining dream on the dairy free as the doc has drawn a blank on the excema. I just want a referral tbh as I get the feeling the gp knows as much as me.

How's everyone else doing?

Hi all,

I've been back to the doctor's today with DT2, nothing on their stool samples but both still have the diarrhoea. Very deep green and mucousy now. Thought you'd all like to know . Went for DT2's chest though. He's coughing and sobbing and wheezing and roasting. Not a chest infection though the GP was a bit concerned about how wheezy he is. to keep a close eye and take him for another listen if any concerns. can I also complain about how much of a pita the GP with twins is?! I have to struggle upstairs (no lift so can't take buggy) holding both my babies and bringing my change bag as it has keys/ phone/ wallet in. FFS. Then make sure I don't drop one til called, struggle in, deposit one or both on couch/ floor. Hmph.

Also, as DT2 is feeding badly and keeps biting me I think I've got either a blocked duct or mastitis . Certainly a sore boob, red bit, feel flu-y and a temperature. Great.

What a total pita about another move red, id

Oops, hit post by accident.

Was saying I'd be so frustrated and cross with her for not telling you! Shame the exzema (sp?) isn't improving... My DT2 has been banging on weight, and has caught his brother up, so as faltering growth is a key feature of cmpi I'm told I'm getting quietly optimistic that- fingers crossed- he won't turn out to be cmpi, or will have already outgrown it & then I'll be able to stop the torture of no dairy .

Weaning has stopped here, entirely. They've had no solids for well over a week, and to have nothing til diarrhoea gone. Hurry up!!!

Well done Claire, so pleased you've got your own space and its not a disaster. Unpacking is overrated, it'll happen eventually, probably when you find a nice babysitter to free you up as I've no idea how I'd manage that!

bigboobs, your boys are SO gorgeous. I'm going to try and go ob the computer later and put one up.

Quick post (again) as dts have been napping an hour doubt I'll have much more time!

red thats crap about another possible move. You must feel like you're not really going to settle into this place now. But at least the next move will not be as hard as the epic one you did last (and mines ponders if red is superwoman) it'll be a doddle in comparison! And you will have Christmas and the cold weather out of the way too. Hope they find a solution to your dt's eczema too poor mite .

dream the dr's I work in and the dr's I go to are pita's for double buggies too. Can get throught the main doors (no stairs) but no hope of getting through the dr's office door! I always take someone but leaves you feeling a bit crap doesn't it? well done on carrying the 2 together though! I have only ever done this a handful of times at home only have never mastered it. TBH it was quicker to get them about one at a time! I do hold them together sometimes if dh putting up pushchair etc but have to be passed one..and they are soooo heavy!

bigboobs just had a nosey at your pic aww they are georgeous! I'm also that that bowl is still intact on highchair no way would my dts leave that alone! (think many many messes to clean up).

Ok I am very very nervous. It's my sil b'day today and she wants my family in law to all go for a meal. We can't get a sitter (il all at meal ) and I love her to bits don't want to miss out. So tonight me and dh are doing that thing of bedtime routine, babygrows, bottle, car seat and hopefully will sleep at meal booked for 7pm.

I'm scared! I know this is silly though. We had a bad experience once but this is different! I'm thinking even if they don't sleep I can handle that and there will be lots of helpful folks! We can always leave a bit earlier too. I suppose my main concern is if they kick off in a pretty naice restaurant in the evening will the other diners be pissed off? I suspect yes. You know what I'm not going to let that bother me will just try and deal with whatever comes and being stressed and nervous is not going to help-it's meant to be an enjoyable thing! Trying to guve myself a little pep talk here. Oh the things kids put us through. Bet you lot can't wait to hear what happens! (and will laugh and say I told you so when it all goes wrong!-actually I know you won't laugh you're a lovely bunch of peeps!).

So it appears my prayers have gone unheard this time for a poor little girl and her family. I know it's a different thread and irrelevent but why why would some one do this? It's so close to home too. I said to dh the other night I was so releaved (sp?) my lo's were tucked up safely in their beds .

Not that quick after all. Dts still asleep! Must have been the speedy shop round the supermarket earlier wore them out!

So funny mines hope the dinner goes ok, but I feel like you, I hate attracting attention at the best of times, and having two crying babies in a restaurant is hell!! The one good thing about Italy though is tgat most people will go aww rather than tut, so you dont feel soo bad I but I still do

Rednellie not another move! I'd have lost the will to leave, I never ever want to move again but will have to as we're renting!!

bigboobs, your boys are gorgeous and I have the same highchairs

*live not leave !!

I have lost the will to live. I lose it several times a day! Seriously though I've got so beyond stress now that I'm becoming tefflon coated. You are right though mines it has sort of put me off making an effort.

Ps don't worry about restaurant. If it's that bad you can leave! But I'm sure you won't have to.

Ok really beginning to struggle now... 5 months is turning out to be a challenging age. Fight sleep during the day so spending so much time trying to get them to sleep only for them to wake 30mins later , still tired and grumpy. And then bedtimes involve a ridiculous amount of parting shushing jiggling cuddling rocking. I would feed them to sleep if only tthat

Posted too soon.... if only that bloody worked.
How how how do I get to the stage where I can put awake babies in their cots and leave them to happily fall asleep on their own? I feel so inadequate as never ever achieved this with dd but I NEED to achieve it with the DTs.

Sorry feeling a bit fed up. I should man up
really as know some of you deal with so much more

Waves to all and sorry for me me me

bigboobs, as I never did well with naps for DD, though she did self settle at night from about 9 months I only do pushchair naps for the dts. So even if we're in, I get the buggy out of the car, push them in the garden, or if very, very lucky rock them in the porch. Then the last few days I listen out for them and instigate urgent rocking when they start stirring after 30 minutes and have amazingly had 2 hr naps out of them!!! Mind, they are ill, coughing, DT2 wheezing, still got the blinking diarrhoea... Night time DT2 will sometimes go in his cot with comforter and white noise cd. DT1 I have to lie in my bed and feed him to sleep then effect The Transfer to his cot. So god knows!!!
Mine were 26 weeks this week, I'm finding they get bored quickly but they won't go on their tummy-DT2 howls, DT1 can roll straight off onto his back, can't sit yet, want constant entertaining... Which means I get fed up, take DD out puddle stamping or something so even more time in the buggy for the boys so even less developing motor skills time, argh!!
So no answers, just to say I'm no wiser at this than you

well we did it! It wasn't too bad the dts didn't sleep at all though were blatantly tired! They weren't grumpy though thank god dt2 did scream once or twice! I wouldn't rush to do it again though as can't say I found it enjoyable I was constantly on edge and as the dts were out of their car seats they were wriggling around and grabbing at everything. Plus the place was packed and no other children there at all! I know I'm daft but it could have been much worse!

bigboobs don't worry I'm me me me all the time! I have been wanting to say this but didn't want to put those with younger babies off. Basically though things were easier at the hallmark 3 months I found 5-6 months got quite hard again. They changed their nap routine and I had to find out what the new one was. I don't know if this would work but I started keeping them up longer in the day they went from naps every 2 hours to every 2 1/2-3 hours. We found a new routine it took about 3 weeks though. Babies change their patterns so much I feel when this happens it's so easy to get sucked in and stresssed over it that it's best to calm down, go for walks/drives etc. Though my dts sleep most naps in their cots (they don't sleep much in pushchair etc so if we have a day out naps just happen when we get in) I love a long drive in the rain with two snoring babies! I'm mad me. Oh and they did change their pattern again at 8 months feels like we barely had a routine there! Regarding them falling asleep in their cots we do have a teeny tiny nap routine but if theyre tired they should fall asleep after a little grump anyway.

bigboobs my DD was same as yours and I never did suss thevdaytime naps. However with the dts I tried the whole thing of putting them down in the dark in their cots and self settling. The pre-requisites were that it would have to be after they'd been awake for at least an hour and a half, they'd fed, I'd changed them, they'd had a play/stimulation and they'd started fussing.

The first day I did it I had to go back in twice, but after that tgeyvtotally got it. I was gobsmacked. After weeks of feeding asleep then attempting transfers -it was like revelation. They still wake in the night, but they always have a two hour nap in the a.m. and then another shorter one in the p.m.

mines I am grateful that you didn't say anything about it getting harder at 5/6 months as I'd have gone round the bend a couple of months ago! But I agree - every day I'm up and down like an effing puppet trying to make sure they have at least one longish nap, replacing dummies and shoogling at 45 mins when they inevitably wake up. We've got a 3 naps a day "routine" going on but DT2 is constantly moany at the moment and like dream's ones they both need constant entertainment at the moment. Both want to do stuff they're not physically able to yet. Feeding schedule is slowly starting to fall apart as they are hungry ALL THE TIME and I doubt they are going to sleep through the night now before they go onto solids. I was thinking of delaying till they were 6 months corrected but now thinking to start at 6m actual which is only 3 weeks' difference, but have read around and apparently it's actual age that counts as they start needing more iron etc... not sure how this is supposed to fit in with BLW though as don't they just wave bits of carrot around for the first couple of weeks? (So I'm thinking maybe I need to feed them some mushy stuff for the first couple of weeks, but I don't know. Also DT1 at least looks like the ideal BLW candidate because I made them a bit of porridge yesterday just to see and she wouldn't let me put the spoon in her mouth but instead grabbed it off me and licked the porridge off, and then when the spoon was clean she grabbed her bib and licked the porridge off that had landed on it!) We also desperately need to get them out of the swaddle and into sleeping bags before they start turning in the nighttime as well as daytime, and we're trying to adjustt hem towards GMT, and they have started waking earlier in the morning too...

La la la la. Once I start feeding them solids they are going to cheer up immensely and sleep through the night and I will be able to watch Homelands on a Sunday night with a glass of wine. Yes. Just let me live in my little dream world for a moment, it's lovely in here.

Also my OH is back after leaving me with his inlaws for 5 sodding days. THANK THE LORD. I've told him that's the last time he's allowed to go away until they go to school.

Daytime napping. My least favourite subject at the moment. For some reason my DTs have decided that daytime naps are for losers and they want to stay awake all day. Am sure they just feel unsettled after holiday and my return to work, but their nanny was exhausted by end of Thursday as they had both stayed awake from 10am to 7pm. They get put in their cots but just stand or kneel up talking and laughing to each other. Yesterday DTD had 1/2 hour all day, and neither of them have napped so far today despite being walked in pram for an hour and a half with snooze shades, and they gave been in cots upstairs for 1/2 hour and both still awake. Have just seperated to opposite sides of room. Might have to get blackout canopies for cots. Any tips from Twelve or anyone else with older twins gratefully received!!

Oh good skills red, I'm impressed. I have put mine down at the normal load-em-in-the-buggy nap time when both are fretful and tired. I have run up and down for 20-30 minutes, shush patting and reassuring til the crying is making me lose the plot. It has never worked. It never worked with DD and i wasted hours of my time trying. I do not breed good sleepers . No routine here, though I'm aiming for a shorter a.m nap and longer after-lunch nap. However today the dts were so, so dreadful in the night that Dh took them out in the buggy at 4am as I cried was losing the will to live, so then DT2 slept in til 9am, DT1 up normal time, DT2 has had a long morning nap, DT1 catnapped and is asleep now... Argh!!! I'm awed by those with both dts in the same routine!!!

Good for you for attempting the meal minesa . Nothing's the same after children hey?! At least they weren't grumpy.

Love it beyoglu, I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than have the in laws here for 5 days, you've done well!!! From what I have read, at 6 months babies need food, iron and other deficiencies can occur otherwise. Something I read said up to 20% of ebf babies are affected by anaemia after 6 months old. I desperately wanted to start weaning before 6 months so they are actually eating something once they reached that age, but here we are, in ever lasting diarrhoea hell, so I've stopped all weaning til their tummies settle down. And they are now 6 months. And gagging for food, trying to grab it from my plate etc. Would be mad to add new foods onto upset guts though . I have also just bought a second hand jumperoo for £35 from a fb selling page, for hopefully easing the entertainment load...even though its yet another thing to delay their development

dream they have been here for THREE WEEKS. They came in late yesterday tho so OH and I had already installed ourselves in front of the TV with bolognese from the freezer and The Great British Bake-Off on the Sky box. Ah, small, specific pleasures! Neither of us even bake. But we're addicted. I've just done my last on duty night (6 effing nights! Massive respect to breastfeeders.)
Yeah I read some stuff this morning on Sciencedaily(?) suggesting that the government is about to change its recommendation about delaying weaning to 6 months for that reason and also because there is a window for them getting used to the bitter taste of green vegetables. Anyway I can't take the whingeing from DT2 any longer. We are going to the supermarket and getting all sorts of meaty mush and I guess some broccoli too! Yesterday I mashed her half a banana and she sucked it down like a starving woman. And they had some baby rice and some carrot to play with (not all at the same time!) DT1 is still grabbing the spoon and licking it herself so we'll call that baby led weaning for now...

Ach dream it's not like you're going to leave them in the jumperoo all day! I say that, we inherited one, and they both love it. I figure if I had another pair of hands I'd be bouncing them up and down in my arms much more and the jumperoo basically does that. Anyway, that's one of two things that will always bring DT2 out of a bad mood - the other is a vtech bear with the most irritating voice I've ever heard. It's like it was designed to annoy adults, but whenever I put it on those two are like "oh! Who is that lovely person?" Smiles all round. Bloody babies.

Oh god, I've been away for aaages havent I!
Bigboobs your boys are gorgeous!

Hit return too soon...
Ceevee on the nap front I'm just pretty matter of fact about the whole thing - watch for the first sign of eye rubbing/thumb sucking, then into the cot for each of them (even if the other one is pretty perky), lights out, door closed fingers crossed. There might be a couple of minutes of grizzling but I reckon it works around 80-90 per cent of the time, especially in the mornings.
Afternoons they tend to sleep for longer and more happily if we're out in the buggy, so I tend to do that when possible. That's probably not much help is it!

Impressed by the evening meal Mines - never tried that, only once at a wedding reception when they both were asleep in their buggy after one of the most epic meltdowns of all time

Passes to all with ILs staying, and to whoever invented the Jumparoo.

It's wilfulness that is the problem here - won't be changed, won't be dressed, won't sit in the bath, won't sit in the pushchair, won't eat things previously enjoyed, won't won't won't. Arrgh! It's like we skipped one year old and went straight to terrible twos!

Anyone got any thoughts about having twins sleeping in separate rooms? DH got up this morning from an on duty night swearing blind that he will never again let DT1 share a room with either him or DT2! They're fast approaching 6 months so could move a cot now... DT1 is a noisy sleeper so it would make sense, but I'm concerned about trying to feed them in the night as I do tandem bottle feed in the cots.

We don't have a Jumperoo just cheap activity centres. They are both different though so I can alternate. And hell if they like it so what? My dts spend loads of time playing with that annoying vtech bear beyou and various other irritating noisy toys though the batteries have gone in half of them and mysteriously cannot be replaced and also in the activity centres. Their development is fine dream and will be even if you try to delay them (which of course you won't but you yswim?). When they get grumpy they crawl around my floor and it's all good.

Don't think I am brave enough to have two rooms beyou but I say whatever works for you! You could try it and put them back if it doesn't work out. The dts do disturb each other though I'm quite quick at grabbing them from a nap. (dt2 has been up for 45mins so far whilst dt1 has been napping for an hour and a half). Also in the days before cc I found it easier to comfort two together in the same room.

ceevee how many naps do your dts have? now they are older maybe they are dropping one? roll on when they go to school!

3 1/2 weeks of maternity leave left not that I'm counting or anything!

Oops dt1 awake apologies to anyone missed...

If they were a single baby they'd be in their own room alone beyoglu if that's what you mean? My DD was in her own room on her own from 9 weeks...

Misery continues here. Stool samples all negative for the boys but diarrhoea ongoing, plus coughs. DT2 wheezy. DD really not well, temp 39.5, floppy, chest infection and ear infection just diagnosed this morning. I didn't get to bed til 4am up with one or other or multiple, DT1 up at 6 for the day. I'm tired and worried.

Sorry for the me me me. Still reading, just busy and knackered.

Can I join? (ID boys aged 11- fine, there kinda old, but does it matter?)

they're not there (I make a lot of mistakes)

Hi all. Well it looks like DTD has dropped her afternoon nap. For five days in a row she has had a sleep before lunch (930/10 ish for 1-1.5 hours) and then powered on through until 7!!! My theory is that because she is nearly 11 months old but not at all active (rolling but not crawling yet and nowhere near walking) that she is just not tiring herself out like DTS is and most other babies her age. He still has an hour in the afternoon. Seems all very odd to me and their nanny is run ragged after today! Oh and on the seperate rooms point - well in order to get any naps and to settle at night I have had to move their cots as far away from each other as possible, they are in opposite corners of the room facing the wall as they were just playing and nattering to each other. God knows what will happen when they can climb out of their beds, we'll have to move house as only 2 bedrooms here.

On a sombre note DH's cousin who he is really close to, like brothers really, has been diagnosed with a very serious aggressive (but treatable) cancer. We will be visiting most weekends (they live 250 miles away) so that combined with work means I'll probably not be posting too much for the next few weeks. Over and out!

Oh ceevee I am sorry. Your poor DH. Sending you lots of love.

Man, I'd love to more mine into another house never mud separate rooms! DD was in a room on her own from 4 weeks, we were in a tiny house so it didn't feel unsafe and everyone slept better.

Poor baby dreams I'm so sorry they're all poorly. Have you thought starting back up the solids might help solidify their poo? Im just guessing and hoping it gets better.

Now, how do I stop my two waking between 9pm and 11pm every night? I can cope with a night waking, but this evening feed is doing my head in. They get put down awake, have no sleep props and nap well. Where am I going wrong? Maybe they're still too small? Both about 6.6kg. Thoughts please!

Welcome oopsydaisy! We'd love you to join us, then you can us pearls of wisdom and reasure us it does get easier. It does, right?

mines I don't think I am brave enough either! I'm going to have an escape room with windows blacked out and the travel cot for if they wake up early from a nap and then fall back to sleep; but whether I'll put them down separately for nighttime, I don't know. DH reckons it would be great as they won't wake each other. I think they will sleep fine again once the inlaws are away but that's another story!

dream I hope everyone gets over their illnesses soon...

Hello oopsydaisy!

ceeveebee that's really awful - take care of yourself. Thanks for the tip on separating their cots! I was thinking about that too.

rednellie no idea about the evening waking - these guys do that as well, last day feed at 7.15 then there's one at about 11. We use it as shift change (I go to bed at 9 in our room with earplugs on and DH sees to the girls till 11 when we feed them and I go over to their room for the night.)

Hi all
So sorry to hear that CeeVee, hoping for a good recovery.

OUr two share 99% of the time, but DS has been really unsettled some of the past few nights so he's been co-sleeping back with me, and I think DD sleeps longer in the mornnigs without him there, but does cry if she wakes in the night to find herself alone. Co-sleeping with crawling boy not so much fun as cuddly newborn either, he keeps sitting up in the middle of the night and head-butting me!

Hi to Oops. You're very welcome to join us and please share some words of experience, but I think there is a thread of older multiple mums who might be more help to you. I think their posts are 'Do you ever wonder?'

We hung onto the dream feed for ages - preferred sitting up to watch some telly then waking them around 1030 than going to bed and getting woken at 3am!

Hi all

ceeveebee really sorry to hear about your dh's cousin, hope treatment is not too hard on him.

dream really crap about the diarrhoea, I thought the same as Rednellie..might be worth a try? Hope they get better soon.

aargh crying upstairs...

on your advice, the boys have had banana tonight

DD is much better today, huge relief. She was so rough yesterday afternoon, temp 39.6 and wasn't even opening her eyes, and she'd only drunk 3-4 oz juice in 36 hours so I ended up panicking and taking her to the GP again

ceevee, that sounds so hard, terrible for your dh's cousin and hard on your little family too. I reckon it'll be a phase with yor DD, she'll get moving and re-start her nap, hopefully!!

I'm going to have a little nosey on the older multiple mums thread for hope but hello oops, you're welcome here

and red, I wish I could get bedtime sorted. Like claire (if its still the same for you) mine just don't self settle... well dt1 certainly doesn't, dt2 might, sometimes, but often likes to be fed to sleep too

well, kind of calm here but dt1 up. dh has brought him down to watch telly when I asked him to go up as I'd just been up to dt2, and dt1, and only been down 5 minutes. I'm actually really pissed off he just rought him down and didn't even try to establsh bedtime/actually try to settle him... So I'd best go and try myself (thoguh the only way I manage at, is to let him lie by me in bed and feed on and off til he's asleep- hardly ideal )

Hello dream no mine are still feeding to sleep... Partly because they hardly have any naps during the day, dtg especially ( and no,not even feeding her ), and by the evening they are so wiped out its a few gulps and zzzz. They still wake up at night though once or twice. At completely random times.

They are now 8 months and totally exhausting. There is always one whingeing or crying, often both. I always have a background of crying , I'll be feeding, changing, rocking one and the other is howling... Or I'll try get something done and they're both howling.

It is just so awful. I am feeling bitter and resentful (with what or whom I have no idea), that I sm unable to enjoy my babies and care for them like I'm used to do (ie not leaving one to cry because I'm tied with the other).

I actually cried with them today. I know it WILL pass, but I don't want them to gtow up and not remember much about their baby years.

I am sure you all know what I'm talking about.

Another me me post, sorry ladies, you are my sanity savers!!

ceevee am so sorry about your dh's cousin as the cancer is treatable then this is some hope though? good luck with all that travelling but he sounds like he needs you and you are good people for being there, though I'm sure you want to be.

I agree with dream maybe the nap thing is a phase but saying that if she is happy without one....

dream oh your poor dd you were right to take her to the docs glad she is a bit better hopefully everyone else will be too .

welcome to oops tell us more about yourself! dream I wouldn't check out that thread in case it doesn't encourage us! Angsty teengers may not seem such an issue to us lot now but it will...

claire I'm sorry you are feeling so down. I feel sympathy for you as ours are the same age. I hate the whinging but am gradually able to ignore deal with it and I chuck toys at them all day! I usually go out a lot but the last 3 afternoons dt1 has been grizzling in the pushchair and have tried all sorts with him. Grr. It does get better you know and look at your older dc's to know this. These years are few in the grand scheme of things just perservere (we all do) and hell I'm wishing the early years away so much I took a week off my maternity leave!

So..me and dh have been bitten on the bum as yesterday were bragging to each other 'look how well our dc's are sleeping at the moment 12 hours every night for a week we are so lucky blah blah'. Last night...up every hour from 11, up from 1.30-3am straight (including the earliest night feed they've had in months). Then up playing and laughing (loudly) from 4.30 to 6. Up for day at 6.45. I've put them down for a nap now and claire I feel like crying too! Chant with me...this two shall pass...

waves at beyou and twelve where are the others? skit and scol and super triplet mum baileys?

Ceeveebee have you thought about skipping the morning nap and putting her to bed after lunch? My eldest two dropped the morning nap pretty soon and by 10 months they would have a big one at 12ish.

Thanks for words of encouragement mines sorry to hear about the rough night. Hope they'll be back on schedule soon. Am soo about 12 hour nights.

Had a better day today, I have come to the conclusion that my two nap much better at home (especially dtg who hardly sleeps in pushchair/car), so I put them down when looked tired at 10ish and slept for two hours! Which meant yhat for the next couple of hours they were much happier.

It is still a long day to go from 12 to 7 without a nap and she was ready for bed at 6 but I couldn't risk the early wakings.

Hope you are all ok, we havent seen BB3 in ages and lots of others.

Hoping to get some decent sleep, night night

That's great they napped so well Claire!

My DD also went to one nap at 10/ 11 months ceevee .

Rant alert:
I feel like the meanest mummy ever holding down screaming DD and physically forcing her to take abx for her chest infection. She won't remember this, right? She's miserable, and sleep all over the place, can't get her down til now ish or later, then up loads but may sleep in my bed 6-8am...

DT1 really wheezy and whiney. Coughing til he's sick +++ I had 3 full changes of pjs last night, him 3 bags. Seriously, I'm miserable. Plus sore, sore almost has me in tears to touch it boob. Again!!!!! Think its as DT1 not interested in feeding often and on/ off like a yoyo, plus DT2 joining in too quite a bit. Is it going to get better for us anytime soon because life is hard here. Tired.

Right, now I've whinged to an extent DT1 would be proud of I'm off to bed, as they're only ever really briefly all asleep atm.

Sorry ladies, another selfish post from me...

You're a trooper dream! Hoping it gets better soon.

Now a drumroll please... my inlaws are leaving! Thank the fooking lord. Last night the upstairs smoke alarm right outside the girls' bedroom went off and not surprisingly they had a bit of a disturbed sleep for about an hour after that, a couple of dummy spits and we were up and down a bit through dinner. Father in law is like, oh, that'll be the teething starting. FFS, did you not hear the smoke alarm, you know the one that was screaming in our ears for 5 minutes before I managed to get the ladders upstairs to switch it off? Fecker.

Yay to inlaws leaving beyoglu!
And dream I have no idea how you are still sane with your dramatic lack of sleep!

As it happens, lovely long naps are no longer happening , instead, tone or the other is waking every. sodding. hour fromm 11ish onwards it's now been a couple of weeks and every night seems worse than the other. Yo top it off dtb woke at 5.30 this moring, followed by his sister an hour later. I tried going to bed when they went this morning but he woke only half an hour later, managed to settle him,then she has woken after another half hour! So he's having a nice long sleep, while I'm munching chocolate and syriggling to keep awake while dtg is in the babycagegiant playpen being ignored amusing herself.

Gawd why did I think was a good idea to move away from friends and support neteork with two babies??!

I am rapidly losing the plot Claire... Bloody nightmare here... S really, really coughing, often til he's sick. Miserable. B too, plus temperature and super miserable. DD now feeling better, though on day 7 of no food, losing weight quickly now. S can't sleep at night, too bunged up and mucousy, he wakes every time he's laid down. I've got a pillow under the mattress for both to prop them up but its not enough. And oh, how I prefered just feeding when they woke. Neither will feed, so its walk, rock, jig, sing. For hours in the night, and get one down and the other wakes up. I am so, so fed up and knackered, I'd like to leave home. Arghhhhhh!!!!

At least I've got my support network though Claire, I'd be stuffed without it. Especially at times like this with illness too, my children have all cried so much today, I'm not sure there's been longer than a couple of minutes without tears. I was in tears by the time Dh got home and my mum was here helping -- though she won't do nappies and isn't that proactive with helping, she does at least play with them--

Oh and beyoglu, but of course its the teeth. A bloody loud smoke alarm would never bother a baby... Yay for them leaving!! Does this mean its just you versus the babies most of the time now? My new conclusion is that's not as bad as you imagine unless they're all ill . Sigh. Good luck anyway!

Have you arranged to meet up with ceevee and her pack of twin mums red? What's the news from your end? Sure you'll be able to cheer us up, I'm no fun at all...

I was just thinking of the time we set off our entire apartment blocks fire alarms resulting in 4 fire engines turning uo and DD slept through it all...

We're ok, DT2 on a trial period of no steroid cream and me dairy free. Not really having the desired affect on his skin but at least we'll get referred now.

Sleep is up and down. All the kid's seem unsettled from 9pm till 2am and then everyone decides to sleep. I had 5hrs in a row one night -single longest period I've slept since Christmas.

Sorry you've got poorly ones again*dream*. And I'm sorry you're feeling down too Claire. Moving is flipping tough. I should know!

Good work on ousting the in laws beyoglu. Mine would not be staying at our house. Ever. My mum came up for 2 days last week - nice to have some help and DD loves her to bits.

Anyway hello to you all. I'm off to catch up on Strictly. Yey

Hello ladies. A quick check in from me. Have been reading and couldn't leave without posting to show my solidarity with all of you finding it hard at the moment. I am right there with you!

Dream, you are like a bloody superwoman! Glad dd is beginning to feel a little better. I am sending lots of 'get well' vibes to your dts... back to 100% immediately and fantastic sleepers to boot - you deserve it!

Claire, you must be knackered. Is it teething do yoyo think? I put everything down to teething but not fire alarms

You must have the patience of a saint Beyoglu. My own parents drive me mad after a few days, let alone DH's. Have you got any one nearby to help out now or are you mostly on your own?

My dts are really hard work still

Bollcks got to go

posting one handed as dt2 woke early today... again. At least this time is a reason because she had her first full night out of the swaddle and in her sleeping bag - it was a lot less bad than I was expecting tbh but still the longest she slept without intervention was 2h 30 mins (while DH was on duty, natch) and she had a 40 minute chatter at about 4.30. Cheers darling... still, she's learning to cope with it, and I now know DT2 can sleep through quite an amazing noise level! We just added a bath to the nighttime routine too so possibly that's still freaking them out as well ("what, why are we in the bath? Is it Saturday morning? I don't understand!")

Once her sleep improves a bit I'll start on DT1, and then we'll try and get past the clocks going back and then the plan is to try and wean them off the night feed. I know some baby sleep experts (and ceeveebee?) say they can need a night feed up to 9 months; it'll probably take us to then to get the whole swaddle weaning and new GMT routine sorted! And I am not switching back in spring...

dream I hope things get better soon! It's got to, they're all ill, they'll get well again. And yep it's just me again... I'm fine with doing it alone as long as DH is about to help with the nighttime.

red hope the sleep all calms down... I wonder if the coming of the dark nights is freaking them all out...

bbl on me own now. THANK GOD...

ok there goes dt1...

Hello again all
Sorry to hear that you are feeling down Claire. Having 4 DCs including twins makes you a super mum in my eyes even if you don't feel like it some days. Are they at that frustrated stage when they can't get around yet and just seem to spend all day crying - it will pass as I am sure you can remember!

beyoglu bet you are glad to have your house to yourself. I always think the 'help' is far outweighed by the inconvenience of having inlaws to stay. In fact usually when they have been to stay the DTs get too used to constant stimulation and spend the next couple of days being very clingy and whingey. I know none of you probably want to hear but re night feeds, my two have been sleeping 7-7 since 5 months (sorry) with the odd teething related exception.

red your landlord is a total knob. At least you are close by now so you can view houses yourself. Let me know if I can do anything to help when you need to move again. Did you hear about the poor woman crushed by a falling branch in kew gardens a couple of weeks ago in stormy weather? Just terrible.

Daytime naps now back in force - the nanny was having none of DTDs wilfull behaviour! I wish they could consolidate their two naps into one lunchtime nap but they are always both so tired by 930-10 ish so they are napping for 1 hr in the morning and 1 hr at about 130-2. And DTD is so close to crawling, she had come on loads in the last week. Can't believe it's only 4 weeks to their birthday!

DH is going up to see his cousin again tomorrow, he is in the throws of chemo and apparently doing very well. He hopes to go home in 3 weeks time - by which time he will have been in hospital for 6 weeks without seeing his DCs which is really hard for him (and them). Then he'll have to go back in over Xmas. But it is looking good long term

Oh this is how puts always been, with 3 little uns there's always something.

Meanwhile, quiet docile DT1 has cut his first tooth. Didn't even know he was teething. And miracle if miracles not only did DD put clothes on with no fuss, she PUT THEM ON HERSELF! Yeehaw

Sorry x posts there!

Yeah, we knew about the woman at kew because we were there. Really awful.

Thank you so much for the offer of help. I've got so used to managing on our own I'm a bit blown away with all the offers!

Ach god who was it who said they had no sleeping through the night action till 9 months? Anyway I know there was someone. My OH came in from work yesterday full of woe because his admin told him her kid only slept through at 10 months, but actually that cheers me nicely not just because of schadenfreude because he just spontaneously slept through at 10 months! See I can handle the night feeds, what I can't handle is the thought that I have to go through some weaning/pacing the floor scenario before they'll actually do it...

We're having an OK time here in the land of swaddle weaning... DT2 did a tolerable night last night in her sleeping back and better than the night before, so maybe this won't be a month long whingefest as I was fearing... and DT1 just had a respectable nap with one arm out - didn't even mean to do one arm out but she was rubbing her ear very contentely so I thought why move her? DT2 is a bit nap resistant today and the bloody buggy has a shredded tyre so could get interesting later but she's pretty chipper just now... what you said ceeveebee, on Monday after the inlaws went and OH went off to work they were all clingy and whiney but they're much cheerier now again. DT2 has managed to shuffle round to the tumbe dryer and is kicking it and laughing at the noise! Brilliant.

red congrats for a painless first tooth!

Hello. Can I join please? I have ID boys who are 9 months.

Hello spartacus!

Can we all do I'm Spartacus! posts now?

Anyone here used the Millpond Clinic? OH and I always said we would tough out the first 6 months and then if the blighters were still sleeping badly we'd get the professionals in. They've quoted us £320 for the girls, it's phone and email consultation and you do a sleep diary and they do you a plan. Up till 2.30 last night I was all, no bother, DT2 is sleeping "like a baby" without the swaddle, just give the bottles and back to sleep... but it all went downhill after that. She refused the bottle all night (OMG she's sleeping through!!! ahahaha) and had a grumpy/chattery sesh at 2.35 to 3.20, 5-5.15 and 6.20-6.35. And DT1 is still in the swaddle. And we've got the 6 month sleep regression coming up. And teething. I'm totally doing it. Even just to know I'm not doing anything stupid to make them worse, would be worth it...
Having said that that's a brill performance from DT2 on her third full night in a sleeping bag. She's refusing the swaddle for naps too, which has made things simple... she's def not getting enough sleep as a result though. On Tuesday I resorted to my old tactic of a long long walk in the afternoon, which was all good, but now the bloody tyre has bust on the buggy so it's kind of like trying to drive an early 90s Fiesta... pulls to the right... have now ordered a spare wheel from Mountain Buggy and spare inner tubes and tyres. Now why didn't someone say to me to do that when I was pregnant and doing all the baby preparation? All that shite about what to put in your hospital bag... did having music to hand help with the pain? No, and why did I think I needed it, I was in a hospital. They have epidural anaesthetic. It is the best invention of the modern age.

Right, must go and wake the small people. Can you believe it? Now she's sleeping in! I might push my luck actually, as I'm trying to adjust their times by 45 mins before the clocks go back. Haven't heard a peep from DT1 since 4am. DT2 why can you not sleep like your sister? Oh yeah that's right, because you're as light a sleeper as your bloody mother!

Hi beyoglu. Our two are having the 9 month sleep regression thing at the moment - sigh! But when they were 5 months I used Jo Tantum's email support to help get them through the night. We did sleep diaries etc and within a couple of weeks they were doing 7 - dreamfeed - 7. By 6 1/2 months they were doing 12 hours solid. She helped sort us out and it was only £60 for the months support. Good luck x

Here's a link if you want to take a lok:
http://www.babysecretsltd.com/contactus.html

beyoglu I have no advice I'm afraid, but your posts make me smile!

Don't you know that sleep is for the weak ?

I have had a blissfull 4-hour uninterrupted stretch last night, which is most I've had in weeks! Also have found a babysitter, a lively girl, and I'll try her out tomorrow!

Last night I tried bedtime without the help if dd1 and it was a complete disastrer. Left dtb in his cot while I was feeding dtg, but he got really upset and was crying so much he was coughing . Cue me taking dtg off boob just as she was going off, she then started crying too. So I had both terribly upset and trying to calm one while the other is crying is impossible... Humpf, I cant believe my first two were so good at self settling and these two won't hear if it.

Yes ceeveebee it is the frustrating stage, trying hard to crawl but they go backwards and getting really unhappy!
Tething probably has a play in there too bigoobs but no sign of sny teeth yet. Well done rednellie's twin for painless first tooth!

This is officially the longets I've ever breastfed for! Both my older girls stopped around 8 months as they had become very fussy ( dd1 sleeping through at night, dd2 only waking ONCE - *do you hear me dtwins??*). These are tha babies that I was very unlikely to be ablebreastfeed at all! I could have a little cry

How are you dream? Hope things are imroving for you!

Hello spartacus welcome to the craziest, most supportive thread on mumsnet!

Hi spartacus my dts are coming up to 9 months hoping they won't have that sleep regression as nights have been a bit crap lately anyway! Do you have any other dc's?

claire glad you are feeling better look out our dts will be crawling soon! (mine are just as grumpy they can only go backwards which gets them further away from the target but dt2 has gone forward a few times. He's even more grumpy now as he knows he can do it!)

ceevee sorry about your dh's cousin that must be terrible for him not to see his dc's and vice versa on top everything crossed for him.

beyou I would have tp think twice about paying so much tbh as eventually those dts will sleep through but I know how desperate things become bless you I spent an absolute fortune on colic remedies . Your posts are funny though the dt kicking the dryer sounds like a little minx!

I'm going to be totally selfish now especially with everyone else in the same boat but am feeling really blue and 'sucks to be me' the last two days. I know it doesn't and there are so many people in real crisis in the world I am grateful and lucky for everything I have...but still I am moping a bit. Dh's car was off the road for two weeks so he was using mine for work which is fine but with the il and my parents all away I have been stranded in the same little town with no help for two weeks. Bills and housework have got on top on me and I feel like a little tired . Yesterday I wrote in my head a 'reasons to be cheerful' list but today it's just one thins on top of the other. And...breathe. Good news is mil has dts overnight tonight yay yay yay think she sensed I was ready to crack! Also my parents are home tomorrow and I have my car back. There it's all good and I just paid my mortgage which was late and stressing me out (don't ask) so short term solutions to my woe's. Now for the long term- I'm going to win the lottery (the only thing that will do it) and buy a nice big house that isn't falling down and get a nanny and a cleaner!!!!! Sorry that was an epic whinge I'm off to count my blessings and kick myself up the bum.

Hi minesapint.
Just these two at the moment! I was on one of the other threads under a different name when I was expecting but haven't been able to get online much over the last few months (can't think why! :*)
Hopefully yours will skip the sleep regression thing altogether - ours started with it after they'd both been poorly in the summer then they've never really gone back to those wonderful 12 hours of solid sleep. I too dread night times at the moment. Oh dear - I keep repeating 'this too will pass!!'
Anyone got any tips? I was told today to just let them scream it out and go back to sleep but I just can't do that...

Hi Sparticus and welcome
I am mumsnetting from work and feel very naughty
My two are 11 months onld and are pretty good sleepers. If they do wake in the night I don't let them cry. I go to their room and resettle - DTD likes to have her chest patted or back rubbed, or if that doesn't work I will rock her cot (its on wheels). DTS has a comfort blanket like this which is sucks on all night so usually if he cries its because he can't find it (and in fact before I seperated their cots sometimes DTD would steal it...)

www.jojomamanbebe.co.uk/sp+sheep-baby-comforter-in-baby-toys+B3455

I never feed them in the night as they don't need it at this age imo (now that I have stopped bf and they are on solids) and I tihnk it would encourage night wakings

Hi ceeveebee. Did yours do the regression at 9 months? It's all been a bit of a shock as I presumed that as soon as I'd stopped feeding them in the night and they were sleeping through then they'd stay that way. Silly me! ;@) Am greteful for the couple of months worth of 12 hour nights that we got anyway.
They usually go back off again with a bit of a cuddle. Other times they resettle when the slumberbear goes off or I sneak in and put white noise on the cd player.
The comforter looks lovely. Thanks for the link x

Hi- no, we've not had a regression really, just a handful of night wakings which I think is usually teeth related (blasted teeth, apparently this will go on for years to come...)!

No time really, but hi all, welcome Spartacus

Brief run down for me:
DD lost loads of weight with her chest infection but much better now, sadly wobbly though and fell yesterday requiring head to be glued in A&E She'll have a scar on her forehead, hopefully not too bad
My boys are still ill, both on inhalers now for their wheezing. Sleep non-existant. I was delighted to get 2.5 hours in A row the other night though

beyoglu, you have a routine. You don't get up and put the telly on in the night or stimulate them anyway, they'll get it eventually and from your posts your routine is awesome!! I'd be tempted with the Jo tantum first I think, its a lot of money! Maybe I should do that, sleep here is so dire...

Agree Claire, this mythical self settling is so hard. I just think they either can or can't, as DT2 is really starting to get it but DT1 has the same routine, bedtime cues etc and won't even contemplate lying calmly in his cot until he goes to sleep!! Here's for you for the hard settling without DD1. I had a similar the other night, ended in tears all round, literally. Even DD who was still feeling
grotty then.

Incidentally my DD never did sleep regression at 6 or 9 months just from 12-19 months

Ouch dreaming I hope she's ok. That must have been terrifying. Hope the sleep thing turns around for you soon.
Don't know if it made the difference but I gave our two their tea 1/2 hour later and gave them a great bowl of baby rice (which they love - gak!) for pudding instead of fruit. And they did much better in the night. I'm desperately hoping it isn't a one off and the answer lies in giving them ridiculous quantities of food. Might be worth a try. I'm crossing everything it wasn't a fluke but, even if it was a one off, the rest was nice.

It was horrible spartacus, I had cars stopping and offering to just chuck us in the back to get us home quickly to take her to hospital while the blood poured down her face, and she's wiping at her face with her hands, and blood was everywhere . She was such a brave girl though, 25 months and no tears being cleaned and glued in A&E.

More coughing, puking, calming distressed wheezy babies and minimal sleeping here....

This is it for the winter now isn't it?? They're going to be ill til spring...

I will attempt to stuff as much food as possible in spartacus, in readiness for less coughing DT1 not doing well with weaning, gagging on everything. DT2 much better...

Lots of puking here too dream! Dtg who does not cough at all in the day had ONE COUGHING FIT and puked all over me and my bed! Put her in cot while changing bed and myself, and she got so upset that was sick again on her cot and me!
I havd mountains of washing everywhere... Plus dd1&2 have nits AGAIN, I cannot bloody brlieve it, do we breed them??? I don't have the time for nit combing every bloody night

And your dd1 deserves lots of [cake] poor thing!

Sorry rant over

spartacus no sleep regression here, nothing to regress from!

So inevitably after I forked out £320 DT2 has started to like the sleeping bag... wouldn't call it a great night's sleep last night but it was like averagely bad, like before when she was in the swaddle except that now I pat her tummy instead of reswaddling her. Still early waking, and this morning I went in at 7.15 to try and just get another 10 mins out of her, imagine, it's pitch black, and I pat the sleeping bag, and I'm like... her tummy seems very round... it was her bum! So we did the swaddle cold turkey just in time I think...

and then (fanfare please) she slept 90 minutes in her morning nap! In the swaddle! She's been 45 mins max since we switched her over. She actually likes it now! And I got to have a shower and watch the whole of Holby City! I also got the inner tubes for the buggy wheel and we now have an inflated wheel - I'm not sure I did it right, think the tube might be twisted but fook it, it's springy, that'll do... I was dying to get out for a long afternoon walk with the girls so I could get some sunlight and DT2 could get some much needed nap time but now she's perfectly well rested and it's pissing down with rain so maybe not

mines take a deep breath, you're doing a good thing! Yay for the mortgage payment - if it's getting hard though talk to them early (specially if you're with someone nice like Santander or one of the building societies) - in this market they'll do anything to avoid you defaulting on your mortgage.

dream well done for surviving that! Poor dd - I have a scar just like that from where I fell and planted my head on a drainpipe when I was 4. It faded really quickly...

spartacus I'm with you on the feeding, deffo. One of mine has started refusing the nighttime bottle 2 nights in a row now, or 3, I can't remember, and we started solids in earnest last week. I've high hopes that the other one's about to go as well. Doesn't help their crappy sleep but at least when this clinic is doing my sleep plan I don't need to talk about weaning off the bottle... HV had an idea of reducing the number of minutes you feed for by half a minute a day, which is cute, but where do I count the minutes in a pitch dark room with a bottle in each hand?

ceeveebee I know what you mean about feeding encouraging night waking. Last night DT2 refused the bottle again and I know that messing around trying to get her to take it woke her up, took about 15 mins for her to settle back. DH has instructions only to give it to her tonight if she actually wakes and cries for it, not if she wakes when her sister wakes.

Right, so. Now onto the DT1 swaddle wean. I just put her down for a nap with the sleeping bag and she's totally gone for it after a very short period of waving her arms around ("arms! in bed! where did these come from!") - it was really cute, she used them to rub her eyes. I bet I could put her in the sleeping bag tonight and not hear a blessed thing. I love that kid. I mean, I love DT2 as well, I just don't love her style of sleeping (i.e. not).

God that was meant to be a quick one!

Hope all the pukey kiddos are on the mend. Poor DD dream, what a horrible thing to happen after being ill. Poor little dab.

Sleep - the great obsession. There are a lot of good sleep habits you can get into, but there's also the inconvenient truth that the majority of babies do NOT sleep through till after their first birthday. I think mine said ages and ages ago about accepting them for what they are. Delicious annoying babies.

Pontificating over! Welcome spartacus, nice to meet another multiple mum on here.

I've done my good deed of the day. I accompanied my neighbour and her 10 week old twins to the local children's centre as they were having their multiples meet up. Helping her made me realise, yet again, how much easier it is now and how fast it goes. I remember struggling out of the house with all 3 in the early days. Shiver!

As you can tell I'm feeling quite positive this week - I finally feelvlike the dust has settled from the move and I love being near so many friends and family. Just makes me wander how I survived the early months all on my own!

That sound horrendous dreaming. Restores your faith in human kindness though that at least people stopped and offered to help. What a brave little star she is.
Coughing and puking sounds hideous Claire Hope it starts to improve for you soon. I think our washing machine was on multiple times a day until these two got to 6 months. And the ironing never ends!
Glad you’re making progress beyoglu. Hope you get some sleep throughs very soon. It’s such a balancing act with the naps and feeds. I’d love to know the equation: x naps + y feeds = 12 hours solid interrupted sleep!!
Tried to give ours a jar of baby food for tea plus some baby rice for pudding and they were not impressed with the jar one little bit and refused to eat it. Then spat out most of the baby rice. Then shouted at me. They don’t usually mind the odd jar but didn’t like this one so tea time was a disaster. And they were up and down most of the night. How tempting it is to just feed them enormous quantities of baby rice for tea as they love it and forget trying to feed them anything proper.
Don’t good deeds make you feel good red. And knowing you’ve helped someone at that stage when it’s just so so hard.
I need to go to the list and see how old everyone elses little ones are...

I think DD looks Harry Potter-esque now. its a diagonal scar anyway.

Weaning is still not going brilliantly. I'm struggling so much with what to feed dt2 (the dairy free one) that we've dairy vhallenged him today, early, with half a petit filous... fingers ccrossed

oh, crying, sorry guys, back later

What are you struggling with weaning wise dream? I've not found it that bad being dairy free but my SIL is vegan and a cook so I get lots of ideas from her. My two are their dinner tonight then DD proceeded to feed them her spag bol! They demolished it. Am very pleased as it'll mean less faff if I can just prep one meal.

mines meant to say hope you're feeling better. We allvhave our down days eh? And money stress really doesn't help. Anyway, been thinking if you

Halloooo ladies! I've changed my nickname, thought after the imposter best to change from scollister to something a bit more anonymous. Just catching up on posts as no sleep here either! Will post properly once I've caught up but just wanted to say hi in the meanwhile xxx

Hey rednellie, I hear you on the pre-12 month sleep and I say "LALALLALALA mine are going to sleep through the night before Christmas or we're spending the new house fund on an effing maternity nurse"!

Actually I can't complain, DT2 is now happier out of the swaddle than she ever was in it, and DT1 did her first non-swaddled night tonight and she was absolutely fine. So the swaddling is over thank the lord! Now what to do with the blankets? Wash them and store with baby clothes for donation to friends, or do I burn the effing things? I dunno. I think it was useful for DT2 for a while in the early days but DT1 never really slept any better with it, and it's caused me no end of stress (more in the anticipation of weaning them than actually doing it, although last week's sleep was fairly bad). It was just in time anyway because DT2 is now regularly sleeping on her tummy - either she was just about to do that anyway, or the sleeping bag has freed her to do it, but she anyway seems to like it. It's a bit confusing on the nights she wakes for a bottle (like last night) and I try and feed the back of her head!

spartacusflapjack any mileage in mixing proper food into the baby rice? At least the baby rice is mostly milk so it's all good for them. I know what you mean though, DT1 ate 3 and a half bowls of baby rice the other morning. I thought she would never stop. I'm determined to act like a relaxed mum around food and let them eat as much or as little as they want but that was really stretching it! I'm making a list of jars they like and hate. Heinz caribbean pork is welcome any time of the day in our house. Fisherman's bake, DT2 hated it so much she refused to eat anything else! DT1 is hilarious - murder to spoon-feed - she intercepts the spoon, grabs it and licks it clean herself and then drops it. DT2 just sits there and opens her mouth if she likes the look of the spoonful - but only if I taste it first! DH has a visceral hatred of baby food so he has to pretend and put the spoon to his mouth and go "mmm, mmm" while trying not to make a face. I think it's really sweet that DT2 basically wants to share the jar with us. Or maybe she thinks she's the queen and we're the tasters.

Hey chocolate!

Dream are you cooking yourself for the wee ones, or using jars? A lot of the jars of stuff are dairy free. I'm doing half jars half fresh - just giving them pureed green vegetables to get them the taste, and then I'll start on other veg when they're big enough to pick it up. Having said that I've been adding butter to the green veg to bulk up the calories a bit - I thought it would be good to give them stuff that had at least about 60 calories per 100g as that's what the milk is - I don't want them eating tons of veggies, drinking less milk and then picking up another night feed. On the other hand DT2 is looking decidedly plump and I think I might get a stern talking to at the baby clinic next time! Can never win, the poor wee blighters were always below average, now I think DT2 is going to be above, and they'll not like that either... she's half Glaswegian, what can I say, I think it's all fine as long as I keep them away from the irn bru and the sausage rolls! DT2 is now fascinated by anything we eat or drink - nearly brought DH's coffee down on his lap yesterday - and she keeps grabbing for my many many cans of diet fizzy drinks. I guess the time really has come for me to chuck that habit, I knew it would. Bugger.

Dream Just reading and running as boys have just started to niggle the second I signed in but this book has been invaluable to us - like a veggie version of Annabel Karmel:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Baby-And-Child-Vegetarian-Recipes/dp/0091853001/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350889999&sr=8-1-fkmr0
Goulash and Baby Rice is a particular favourite! x

Ah yes beyoglu, the amazing reach of babies. Never forget when DD pulled an entire pint of beer over her and DH. That was good. Not. She also used to feed us, I think it's a socialization thang. She still offers me her food. Cute.

I just went and looked at a playgroup fir DD. Maybe 3 half days a week, but I'm still undecided. I know you all prob think I'm insane but I'd really miss having the threeof them. I also don't want to upset the equilibrium again. I feel like DD is in a really nice phase right now. Decisions decisions. I've also been offered a job, it'd be working from home so I'd need to sort something out...

Gawd it's so hard to keep up on this thread! I am feeling a bit better thanks but still a bit and like red said money problems are the last thing needed when you've got enough to deal with! Did have a nice weekend though I met a gp of twins in Cardiff Bay and she said her grandson, even though 7 weeks early, is clinically obese at 18 months! Made me feel so much better beyou I'm avoiding baby clinic for same reason! (plumpness hee hee). We do half jars and half home cooked too mainly as though I love them to eat what we eat some things are just not baby suited I think! (eg the crap me and dh eat).

red be careful what you say about babies not sleeping until 1 on this thread though tbh think most of us are finding that out! 3 more months to go. I can't complain dts are good sleepers mostly though only had 3 sleep throughs in past week which is not good for them. If it is that whole teething thing I don't mind. Dt1 has 4 of them now plus I can already feel his back teeth at the surface. He's been clingy and grumpy the past two days too. Dt2 has...zero!!

chocolate what imposter? I missed this? please tell I love gossip!

dream your poor dd is she ok now? Hugs for her x

dt2 has started crawling forwards now straight to the dvd player and anything else bad so more babyproofing later especially as think dt1 is not far off. Heaven help me. Regarding twins on the move how is it for the rest of you with this? I'm just starting out and feel like I need several more pairs of eyes! I have a playpen but they will only go in for very limited times....

I'm losing my train of thought here think I may be going doolally post dts birth...

Hello all. Sorry, real life got int he way for a while.
All good here. DS is walking (eek!) and DD is cruising like mad trying to catch up. I think she said her first word the other day to ('Hello!' accompanied by mad waving at her own reflection. Too cute).

Sleep is still 2 steps forward, one step back however. DD will sleep consistently. DS will... not.

We're about to lose our lovely lovely nanny, who was supposed to come and help out with the hellish newborn stage a few mornings a week, and stayed and stayed until she's been doing 2 days a weeks so I can work over the summer. But now they're too big and wriggly for her, so they have to go to a new nursery, and I'm so sad. They've been going to another nursery occasionally and seemed mostly fine there, but this one they don't seem to settle at on the intro days (I guess cos they're older), and I just hear our lovely nanny caring so much about whether they're eating well, sleeping well, reading to them, just really loving them, and am scared nursery is more baby-zoo than parent-replacement. Sniff.

Dream on the lactose-free weaning - what stage are you at?

Lots of the Stage 2 Ellas pouches are ok - Beef Casserole, Roast Lamb, the LEntil one, the Bean one, Chicken Casserole, Chicken Noodles, Lamb & Zingy Cous Cous all fine. Avoid the Roast chicken, Fishcakes and any Brekkie ones as they all have milk in (think I might've bought too many of these....).

Annabel Karmel lovely lentils was a hit. Pasta sauces with chicken & veg. Avocado for fat. Houmous was ok.

Lacto-free formula in cereal (vom) - poor DD gets it too for ease.

Pretty quickly we tried DS on the Lacto Free range www.lactofree.co.uk/ and he did fine on it. I'd make mash and creamy sauces with the soft Philedephia-stle cheese (blends well with broccoli etc), sticks of the hard cheese (it's actually quite nice), and lots of the yoghurts. Toast with either Lacto-free or sunflower spread. There are traces of milk in things like bread, but we don't have to worry about that now.

He now seems ok on small amounts of butter and normal cheese, although I think we've had bad reactions to yoghurt - possibly because he loves yoghurt and eats more of it!

Coconut milk has also been fine for us - mild Thai curries or dhal and rice are good.

Any of that help?

dream, here are some links my vegan SIL sent me. Ignore the vegan agenda and it's very useful info for being dairy free and where you get calcium from etc. The fact you're bf makes a difference as they'll be getting good fat from you, so not such a big concern. Anyway, links:
this
and this
finally this

HTH

Sorry you're losing your nanny Twelve. I'm totally pathetic getting worried abotu DD going to playgroup 3 mornings a week and she's TWO fgs. I need to get a grip. Although, having looked at the cost, we might have to wait till she gets free placement at nursery as I'm not sure we can justify the cost...

think we have started teething here - normally chipper DT1 was screaming, gave calpol and she fell asleep in my arms and woke in a good mood.

ARGHHHHH!!!!!

Just wrote a long, detailed post and lost it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man I'm

So, brief overview was:
My weaning issues are
1. gagging and puking- slightly better now not so mucous-filled but still often bring up what looks like more than total quantity consumed when its all over them, the highchair tray, the floor...
2. complete refusal- eat one mouthful and thats it. I'm really struggling to find time to cook, so they're getting things like blended spag bol, probably too early... They'll try one tiny mouthful, or even not want to try any, then that's it. But will happily eat fruit puree, so not that they're not hungry/don't want solids. They just will not open their mouths for the spoon. Even things like ready brek with mashed banana stirred through. They love banana, so I did ready brek with milk and banana for dt1, and with soya milk for dt2. One mouthful and that was it, but they lunged for toast, and attempted to devour that (puked everywhere of course, they're so not good with finger food yet), so I don't think it's that they're not hungry. But anything I consider 'real' food, they won't have... And while eating fruit puree is ok, its not good enough as a complete diet!! DD ate everything at this age, sigh

DT2 is on his second lot of yoghurt today, and will have the same again in another 3 days if he seems ok with it. I started this dairy challenge thing too early I think, as he's not totally well (given up hope of that day!) so I can't tell what's whinging because he has a cough and wheezy chest, and what could be intolerance whinging. <idiot mother> . He's been crying after his evening feed, but not after every feed, so I'm calling it so far so good. All that calcium info is really interesting though rednellie. Shows how much I know... zilch

oops, pressed post too soon.

Hope you're feeling better minesa, money worries are grim.

We've just worked out what it will cost me to go back to work- and its about £200/month LOSS. I just don't know if we can tak a loss like that for me to go back and do my job while paing out for other people to look after my children So my decision about working may be made. Still haven't heard about my career break but its looking unlikely, as not hearing means they haven't recruited to my job... Its NHS ceevee so can only be advertised on the silly NHS website, but has gone back out combined with another lot of part time hours to make a full time job, so still fixed term but FT, so maybe better chance of recruiting...

Anyway, nearly at dt1's first wake up time, so best go and clear up. Will he ever 'get' sleeping?! I'm losing the faith, he's still up 2 hourly...

Just a thought - it may cost you 200 pound loss now, but would it work out for the best in the long run? i.e. you wouldn't have a big gap in your career etc. Especially as they're looking like they wont give you your career break?

Of course if you want to have a break, that's totally cool too, I was just thinking that sometimes we look at the short term situation and not the long term...

Don't worry about the food refusal. In fact I seem to remember you telling someone else "food before one is just for fun"! Take your own advice and give yourself a break.

Don't panic Dream. Fruit's good. We spent friggin months on banana and avocado, pear and butternut squash, carrot and apple... They get all their fats and proteins from milk, it's fine. Weaning seemed so so slow for us, and even now I can't predict what they'll go for and what they won't, but it will get there. It was over 9 months before they attempted finger food, and now they'll steal fish fingers from my plate. Ds still despises vegetables but adores shepherd pie.. Go figure.

Oh and do either of them have sore throats/coughs? We had epic voms and refusal of all but the softest purees when they had a throat bug.

Ella's stage 1s are savoury but have lots of fruit, I spent a long while on those whilst slowly replicating similar homecooked stuff bit by bit.

I don't work for ella's by the way!

Hi dream. How old are your two now - just over 6 months right? We started weaning at 6 months and whilst DTS was keen, DTD would not eat anything other than yoghurt until she was about 8 months old. Now she eats everything. It's so frustrating when they won't eat but really at that age they just don't need anything more than milk.

We dont have any food allergies here but a lot of what they eat is dairy-free - lentils with or without meat, pasta with mushroom/vegetable/tomato/spaghetti Bol sauce, cottage pie (obviously without butter in the mash), mashed up Sunday roasts, tuna or salmon sandwiches, scrambled egg (are they egg intolerant too?), chunky soups etc etc. basically usually whatever we had the night before.

red and beyoglu yey first teeth! DTD now has 4, she didn't get her first until 10 months. DTS has 8 and he likes to sharpen them on his sister/me/any passing toddler.

red some of the twin mums went to a soft play centre in kew yesterday, there were 4 boy/boy sets and my two so 9 boys and my DTD, she was surrounded! We're planning to go somewhere in Richmond/kew/Barnes on Mondays each week (starting on 5 november) if you are interested

Definitely! Send me a pm with the details, I'd love to join in.

No time for a proper reply yet, but you guys are amazing, thanks so much for all the advice/ links/ reassurance
<sob, sniff>

dream, my two turned the nose up at ready brek, preferring the more expensive baby rice with a bit of fruit puree mixed in (cheers guys). I'm going to try it again next week. From what I've read, at this point the only thing that matters is that they're getting new tastes and that they're not forced to eat anything they don't want - for me that takes a load off because I don't need to bother trying!

Now, you're all going to disown me because I'm doing... controlled crying. I cancelled the Millpond appt and bought their book instead (long story, thought DT2 was learning to settle but all went pear shaped yesterday). They have like flowcharts and suggested solutions and the one closest to us (twins who night wake) was basically controlled crying for naps, bedtime and night wakes plus bedtime routine that involves doing the milk before you take them to bed. We'd basically made those changes to the routine, and we'd noticed that while using the check and console method that DT2 slept well only on the nights where she happened to fall asleep while we were out of the room. So I think our instincts were leading us in the CC direction, but I didn't want to start it till I read the book 15 times and knew exactly how to be consistent in applying it... just did it for the afternoon nap and I sort of feel like a bad mum for not feeling like a bad mum! You know, in the book it's all "it'll be harder for you than it will be for the baby." It wasn't hard at all. OK she only cried for like 7 minutes. But they didn't seem like particularly long minutes. It's a hell of a lot easier than hovering by the nursery door trying to figure out what to do...

I've no time to post much at all but just wanted to say beyou I have done cc and I live by it. It's not for everyone but I'm with you! You have to be determined though to be ok with it iyknwim. If you feel the slightest bit of uncertainty it may not be for you. You sound as sure as I was! Oh it worked wonders btw! I did it for naps and have no problems at all now plus longer sleeps. You may find it takes a longer time than it's 'supposed' to and you have to go back to it every so often but it's worth it imo. Ok I have to go now for real....

Oh and I didn't feel too guilty either had a cup of tea whilst stopwatching too . It can be hard though...I have cried too...

So is controlled crying just letting them settle? Cos I've been doing that for yonks

Ach, it's all semantics really. Big news is I'm out obviously me own. Just had a girlie night in central London. Feels very peculiar to be on a train at night on my own. I don't think I've been on my own for months. Now must just stay awake till my stop...

mines, thanks for the support! They were amazing last night - took 10 mins to stop crying then heard nothing out of them all night except for the night feeds (which we are starting to wean). I am in absolutely no doubt that that's better for them than half waking every 45 minutes/90 minutes and having to be rocked back to sleep.

rednellie, basically, yes it is just letting them settle! You let them cry for like 5 mins then go back and just talk to them but just say hello basically and then go away for 10 mins, then 15, then go back every 15 mins. The books let on like you'll be at it for an hour or more the first time but I think that's in older, really sleep-resistant babies. I think actually last night using that method they cried for less time in total than they did when we used to go up at every noise.

rednellie woo to night out in London! Like, actual proper London! I'm going to feel like an escapee from jail very strange the first time I go on public transport in the dark again...

I feel like a new woman this morning! Not that I got a great night's sleep - part of the CC is that you don't sleep in with them, so I spent the whole night going "was that a cry? What about that? Was that one?" and being freaked out by DH stealing the duvet etc - we haven't slept in the same bed for 6 months! But it feels so much more human to be sharing a bed again. I even got a shower before he got up this morning, usually have to wait till the morning nap.

beyou unfortunately my dt2 has done hour long cc but he's great these days. Our problem was the rocking to sleep too it had got to the point where I would put dt1 down and he would cry for an instant pick up even if he'd dozed off so had to do something. Good luck for tonight you are definately doing the right thing and hooray for results!

Dh and I haven't not shared a bed since the dts were born just swapped sides so I could be nearer the dts at first but I couldn't sleep on the wrong side of the bed! It must be weird sharing again after 6 months don't think I would want to after having my own space! It's nice when the little things start to go back to normal isn't it? Like when the dts went into their own room and I took the horrible blackout blind from our room as I like daylight! Now we watch tv and read and (stuff) and it's semi-normal. Phew.

red sounds like you had a good night! I want a night out now.

dream thanks for the words of support I am feeling better things just get to me sometimes you know? It's stupid I spent so long worrying I would never have children and now I do I worry about other stuff. I did before but ykwim? Don't worry too much about the weaning btw I know it's frustrating but they will get there. At 9 monthsish my dt1 basically feeds himself his own food cut up or finger food (I spoon feed him though whilst he holds one in his hand) holds his own bottle sometimes and drinks from a sippy cup himself. Not bragging as dt1 can barely eat a lump without throwing up won't feed himself fuck all and looks at me like I've got heads if I hold out finger food for him. So every baby is different! I can't advise on the dairy free sorry but you've had some good advice from red and twelve and ceevee.

ceevee btw I saw your post on another thread but didn't comment about how much home cooking you do and I am in awe!!!!! I love cooking from scratch but find it too hard to do anything major unless there's someone to watch the dts. Your dts are lucky to get such good food and can you please send some our way?!?

The other things I'm missing at the moment (besides having the time and enjoyment of cooking) is lie-ins, adult tv in the day , giving a damn about how I look when I leave the house...

Dt1 is cutting his back teeth and is very unhappy and clingy at the moment (sympathy beyou) last night he screamed all through bathtime which he usually loves and woke at 10pm crying. I tried bonjela then but he woke again at 11 so I got the Nurofen out and he slept all night after that. So today I'm going to give him Nurofen at 1 and 4.30 and a later dose if he wakes as I usually try not to give more than one dose a day if that but I don't know why if it helps?!?

I have to say before I sign off this epic post that you are all so supportive and lovely to chat to it really helps. I had to go to town the other day and then into the supermarket a very nice lady got a double trolley for me (at the back as usual whilst I put the pushchair in the car. Then yesterday I was driving through Merthyr and saw a young woman with twins about 18months trying to cross a busy road with them. The road is fast and the twins were on foot I saw two workman carry them across the road for her! Ah people can be so nice!

Enough said I think!

Minespint dtb is just like that sometimes, I can only put him down when totally asleep or screams blue murder...but I don't think I would be able to endure an hour of that...I don?t have the stamina!
Dtg still feeds to sleep, naps and bedtime...

I know I will have to address this at some point...like when I want to wean them off the breast, but I have my head firmly stuck in the sand!

good luck beyouglu hope it keeps going well!

rednellie hope you had a good night, can't remember the last time I ahve been out in the evening without kids... and yes I would feel like an escapee too! I am always amazed just how many people are out late at night on the few occasions I do go out since having kids...of course I assume that no one else goes out either.

welcome back chocolate

Twelve sorry to hear about nanny, but nurseries can be lovely, it really depends on the staff there, we were very lucky with dd1 (10 years ago! and I was always happy with hers, hope you find something good for you and the dts

spartacus I do not do ironing. anymore. Seriuosly, the only items that get ironed if he's lucky are dh's shirts!

right off to get some zzz before they start waking up...

Here here for a sanity-maintaining thread

Yes, boys are 6 months (and a bit, 7 months on 4th Nov) . So now DT1 has decided he loves food . DT2 is not loving it anymore, (pre stopping for the epic diarrhoea he was keen as mustard). He is still coughing, over a month now, and also dairy challenging atm so don't know which is causing his current misery. But last night, after 3 whopping meals, including purees beef goulash for tea, DT 1 (a 4 feeds a night baby) slept all night!!! As in 6:30 pm to 7am . We will probably be back to 4 night feeds tonight but was a ray of hope. Shame his brother up 6 times hey?! yes, 6 times. A Very Miserable Baby too, poor DT2. I only put them to bed so early as I was so sick of DT2 crying. I wish there was a test for this cmpi, if its that making him miserable I'm happy to stop the dairy again but I've done the half a petit filous again as I'm still not convinced. He's definitely a miserable baby these last few days, and windy, and screaming in his highchair/ after some feeds, but it could be the dairy, his teeth, a phase... Oh, why are they so hard to work out?!

My understanding of cc is go in, soothe, go out, go back in 5 min, repeat, wait 10 min etc. I could listen to 5 minutes of crying, if it wasn't hysterical crying, but never 15+ . I don't have the stomach for it... Touch wood, my two have both been put down awake and gone to sleep by themselves holding a comforter toy so maybe I'll never have to do cc...

Hooray for a night out rednellie Have they given up the dreaded 9:30-10pm feed then to let you out?

I iron nothing

Err, forgotten the rest...

What is this ironing you speak of?

The answer to your question dream is that they gave and they haven't. DT2 who is eczema dairy free by has been reliably skipping it for a week. DT1 sometimes can be settled, sometimes not. Tonight I'm feeding him...when I went out DHAKA and I just agreed he'd settle for as ling as it took. He's not bothered by the crying and can be rational - me not so much

twelve, forgot to say, I hope they soon settle into their new nursery. Leaving little ones is so hard, but I'm sure you've chosen somewhere nice and its just that they're a bit bigger, like you say. My DD is having huge separation anxieties again having been fine for the past 6 months. Just a phase I hope, and its ok for now as i never have to leave her (its even over Dh or someone else putting her to bed, genuine distress not just stroppy 25mo iykwim) .

Unless I go back to work in February of course... That's the problem red, if I leave it'll stuff up my pension, my registration to practice etc etc. But I'm so, so loathe to lose £200/month for someone else to look after my children. feeling like a real lose-lose situation. We can't decide, but leaning towards quitting if/when my career break is declined as our gut feeling is I'm best looking after our littlies for now. It's such a hard decision though....

How we all doing ladies?

dream, I'm kind of in the same situation in that I'll just about break even when I go back to work but shamefully that seems like a good deal to me, unless the small ones get a whole lot easier to cope with soon!

Getting blooming cold isn't it? Thank god the wee ones seem to have mastered the art of sleeping in a stationary buggy so now I can go and have tea while they're taking their afternoon nap (I try and get out in the afternoons at least).

We're good here - had a couple of nights where boys have only woken once between 6 and 6. Feels like a massive step forward. However one slightly annoying knock on effect is that my periods have started again. Obviously that one feed I've dropped was enough to get my body working. Grr. Id almost forgotten about periods. I feel very washed out...

I'm enjoying the weather although it does mean adding about 20mins to our routinefor getting out of the house!

red I was kind of glad to see my period this week as it was a little bit late and I'm a bit forgetful with my pill. That won't be happening again! Ironic after all them years of wanting to be pregnant!

Ah getting out of the house. Some days a doddle some days a mare. This am the lovely dts who are crawling everywhere now managed to pull the cables and the sky card out of the box. Thankfully I manged to put it back right whilst they laughed at me until I reminded them that if that happened there'd be no igglepiggle or rastamouse (and am very glad they didn't delete my sky plus collection!!!). DT1 has manged 3 poos already today, two of them between one feed! and we're low on nappies. The logistics of it all!!! I was still in my pj's until 10 o'clock!

I wouldn't change em for the world what a cliche but it's true.....

Hello! After 10 weeks in hospital we are finally bringing our twin boys home today. I thought I'd wave to everyone now as I fully expect that the next time I make it onto the thread I will be in a blind panic about something or other. Please feel free to send me your survival tips. Here goes!

there congratultions on bringing them home you must be so relieved. Come here as much as you can we all help each other out! As for survival tips I'm no expert just winging it all the way! But it seems to work....

Wow red not bad! Over here, DT2 is sleeping from 11 till 6 but DT1 is still taking that 3.30am bottle - now down to 60ml so hoping she'll give up over the next couple of days...

Periods are rubbish. Despite bottle feeding mine didn't kick in till 3 months after the girls were born. Blooming IVF. Now I'm sure I'm becoming anaemic again... it would help if I ever ate anything other than toast probably.

OMG mines every time I feel like I'm on top of things you reveal a fresh horror. They messed with the Sky box? They can't do that! Not allowed!
Do you find there's a lot more poo now they're on solids? I seem to be doing poo checks at 20 minute intervals.

Congratulations there, that's great news! Yeah what mines says, it's pure trial and error with me but these girls will see you right

Hello everyone...how are we all?! I've not been on here in ages... wish I had the time/energy to read all your posts, but i trust we're all surviving?!

My DTs are now just over 7 months now and little devils cuties. Wriggling around lots; eating all sorts; still not sleeping much... not sure what else to report really. Still breastfeeding - though they won't ever feed together. Any times they did seem to have been flukes, although nowadays they feed for ten mins in the evenings and basically a minute or two around breakfast and lunch, but never really any more. Trying to get them used to the bottle so it's an option for us but all they do is roll it around their tongue, chew it, or retch! Generally they just don't drink very much anymore tbh...

Things are very busy here, not much time to myself or anything as I'm sure you can all relate to! Still not moved house yet, it was supposed to be 3 weeks ago but then there were some 'unforeseen delays'... of course, we'd already transferred our phone/internet/post, so been without those for ages now!

Hello lemele, I was wondering where you'd got to

Busy here too, if I manage a bath in the evening that's the most 'me' time I ever get. Mine are still terrible sleepers too.

Weaning is marginally better. Both super keen to feed themselves but rubbish at it. They can grab the food alright, and stuff it in, but then proceed to just gag and choke on it and vomit hugely everywhere. I've tried sweet potato/veg 'chips' and sticks (vomit ++), broccoli (they hate it), cheese for DT1 (ok) bread (ok) , but basically DT2 eats bread, DT1 cheese and bread, so hardly a balanced diet... I'm stuck with what to do to progress blw style weaning too. DT2 loves Ella's Kitchen, he will eat all the none dairy ones. DT1 is not that into spoon feeding. Gah.

DT2 much, much happier dairy free again which is great, kind of. He's sleeping better and smiling and giggling, no crying so we'll wait til 9 months now to give it.

congratulations thereis, it must be wonderful to get them home. Hope they're settling in at home well and sleeping for you!

minesa, it took me 2hours 40 minutes to get my three up, dressed, fed and out the house the other morning. Can't wait for DD to be able to do a bit more for herself & eat her breakfast without being spoon fed too She can feed herself, but would happily get down after about 3 mouthfuls. She's trying hard to put trousers on, which is fab, but determined not to use the potty . She's only 25-nearly 26- months though so i know I just need some patience. Will make it so much easier though <daydreams>

And how rubbish about the Return of the Periods rednellie.

Oh, must dash again- will I ever fully finish a post again?!

Hey dream, I give the small ones sticks of bread dipped in Heinz jar of mush of the day pureed healthy home-cooked meals, and they hold the bread and lick it off/gum the bread. So they're not doing the chewing but they are doing the picking up and handling food IYSWIM?

Weaning continues apace here... DT1 dropped the 3am bottle last night and DT2 is now refusing the 11pm bottle as well as the 3am! That makes it sound like I got a good night's sleep but unfortunately we messed with DT2 at 11pm, tried to get her to take the bottle, and she went back to sleep grumpy and woke at 1am and 3am. This is the second time we've done this and now we have learned our lesson - she's getting nothing at 11pm unless she's crying for it. And although DT1 didn't have the 3am bottle, I still went down and made it for her - then put it at the door of their room, went back to bed and woke at quarter to 6 as usual. Still no sound from upstairs! So I think (ha ha, watch me tempt fate) they are on the best way to doing an 11 till 7 stretch tomorrow without any grief, which would be the first time ever, and would be on my OH's watch. Typical!

Hey all. Blimey, been quite a week.
Last week the Dts were getting grumpier and grumpier, DS was amazingly clingy at nursery settling days and playgroups... lots of screaming, tantrums over meals etc. Was starting to question my sanity. MIL decided to come and babysit so we could get a break and go to see Bond - cue MASSIVE massive vomit everywhere from DS. I was partly fed up at the timing - nanny had left, supposed to be joining new nursery, cleaner on holiday, first night out in MONTHS - and partly thinking 'Ohhhhh! That's Why!"
So, a week of D&V x 2, rejuggling childcare every 10 minutes so I don't miss deadlines (wonderful wonderful nanny ended up coming back for 2 days the week after she was supposed to finish ). Not one I want to repeat in a hurry.

The clingy thing has been confusing me, because they were so so good at going to nursery/strangers at groups etc beforehand. They spent 2 months in hospital without me when they were born so I thought they weren't bothered! Presumably feeling under the weather will have made it worst. They have had a nanny since they came home pretty much - either to hold/feed them for a couple of hours so I could eat/shower/sleep in the early days, and then for 2 full days a week when I went back to work around 9 months, they love her and were bonded to her, but DS still had a mini meltdown whenever he saw me in the day.

They also went to nursery 1-3 days a week from around 9 months, depending on how much work I had on and initially seemed fine. I guess the changes in routine probably haven't helped, but they were ok, then DS started getting more and more upset at each drop off. So next week we'll try starting the new nursery again, have to say I am dreading it now.

We're back to square 1 on weaning again now too, and the washing machine is practically smoking! PAss us a

Hello...

Hello

Bloody hell twelve <rocks in corner at thought of full on weaned D&V x2 (or 3)>
I think separation anxiety is worse around 9-14 months, I read that, plus when I was looking round nurseries they were warning me about settling in being harder (if I'd done it she'd have been 13 months on going). And don't be ridiculous, hospital or not, they're your babies, you've been s constant presence in their lives and their key figure, and of course they'll miss you/ worry about you going, the same as any baby. A nurse is a nurse and will care for them, but babies know their mother, and know who loves them. That's my opinion anyway. Separation anxiety is why DD has never gone to nursery. I have chosen to be present, or have family as carers while she was under 2. Pure luck I could do it, as i was lucky enough to get pregnant with the twins when she was just 10 months so my parents agreed to cover the 3.5 months I was at work between my pregnancies/ Mat leaves. It eased when the boys were born for me, so 18, nearly 19 months, but is back with a vengeance now at nearly 26 months . I'm trying to avoid being manipulated by s bossy toddler, like if she's trying to insist mummy gets her down from her highchair not daddy or something ridiculous, but if she seems genuinely distressed not being defiant I don't force the issue. So I'm not much help, but sure your ds is just going through the 'normal' developmental anxiety... Unless it could possibly be just the new nursery? Why did they change nursery? Good luck for next week!! And I hope the food situation is better quickly (I hate weaning, so hard this time, refusing spoons but vomit/ gag/ choke profusely feeding themselves finger food still)

Hello BB3, how are your beautiful children doing?

Had twins group today. I was late- takes me forever to get my three out the house now weaning hell has commenced... We are going to add it to the tamba list, hopefully. The childrens centre will advertise it locally for us. Yay! Only 3 of us there today, but huge hailstorms here-marble sized hailstones and bigger!, traffic hell with a 10 car pile up on the motorway making town ferociously busy etc and so 3 others we had rounded up to come dropped out.

beyoglu, good idea, I'll dunk them some bread. Fingers crossed for sleeping through for you!!!

HELLO BB3! Sorry had to shout as felt very over excited seeing you. How's everything going?

Welcome there's and congratulations.

twelve - our worst patch of separation anxiety was when Dd was 18months and then when the twins were born. I just gave in to it and she always got better. Good luck!

YAAAAAS SECOND NIGHT NO 3AM BOTTLE!!!!
On dad's watch, naturally. DT2 had a bit of a whinge at like 4am but went back to sleep on her own.
dream mine have gone right food-refusy the last couple of days as well. I've moved them back to the bouncy chairs in case it's that but I think we're just going through the 6 month wonder week - according to the book it should peak this week (lucky me). DT2 is all, no no no I feed myself and then she gets annoyed when the spoon arrives at her mouth empty. I've got to get some more Ella's - those ones stick to the spoon quite well so they can wave it around a bit and when it gets to their mouth there's still some food on it! So not all in my hair/on the walls/hidden in their pockets like the bit of carrot I only discovered yesterday when I saw it floating around in the washing machine

Hey, it was really quiet over the weekend... everyone's ignoring me because I bragged about the night bottles, I can tell

DT2 is really testing the old self-settling stuff. At 3am she whinged for half an hour, and she did that the two nights before as well. I'm not going to call it crying - it never really works up that much, and I think she's basically still kind of asleep. It wakes me and DT1 up though. I'm glad we're doing CC because honestly I wouldn't know how to comfort her on this one. Really hope this is just the 6 month wonder week stuff (according to the book this week is the killer one so lucky us) and she starts waking up more quietly!

How you's all doing?

hey everyone! i know some of you from my numerous questions before i gave birth.....so now they're here i'd like to join the thread if that's ok!!

DTs were born 5 and a half weeks ago, birth was pretty horrendous as was the stay in the hosptal (i live in france and they are not v pro breast feeding and they spent the whole time trying to force bottles on me) but the twins are doing great and had really good birth weights (DD 2.5kg and DS 3.2kg)

they are adorable but it is bloody hard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! am totally sleep deprived and zombie like, ready to kill mil and looking forward to lots of chat and support on this thread

Hi everyone. I am finally ready to join this thread. It has been manic since getting the DTs home.

nancy my DTs are also 5 weeks old. Hopefully we can share tips/ideas.

DTs born at 34+5 by emergency section as twin1 had lost her fluid. DT1 (Georgina) was 5lb7 and DT2 (Megan) was 6lb1.

Beyoglu hurrah for twins sleeping through...I can only dream of reaching that stage!

Hope everyone is well

Welcome nancy and garden you will gets loads of support on this thread!

garden your dts were amazing weights! Mine were only 5lb9 and 5lb15 at 37 weeks and I was chuffed with that! they are chubsters now though.

beyou yes hurray for twins sleeping through you made it! It's hard when they whinge in the night though isn't it it's not like getting a full nights sleep anyway! O and I was very at the sky box incident. Don't they know that tv is my escape! I had to laugh at another thread on mnet, that I was too terrified to post on. The op asked how long dc's watch tv for and there were answers like "half an hour a week" "we don't like tv" "we don't have a tv". I was too scared to tell the truth to those precocious so and so's. If the tv ain't on in my house it's broken! Or the cables and card have been pulled out by the boys.

twelve so I take it you never made it to the cinema? Horrific sick is just that...horrific. But at least you know the problem now and well...4 year old vom is probably worse .

Speaking of sick..I spent the entire weekend puking after my 'friend' poisened me with a chicken curry. She doesn't know this btw. Anyway I was glad it was weekend as dh did more than the lion's share I just couldn't function. Fell sick now just at the thought of being ill and alone with them! Arrggghhh!

Also, dts are doing my head in sleepwise. They can't much be arsed night or day in fact am back to cc for naps today with dt2 (who at one point was standing up in his cot! ). At night however me and dh relentlessly feed to sleep knowing it's not the thing knowing it's not good or right but carrying on regardless. All this right on the brink of me returning to work. Thanks guys.

They merrily cruise round everywhere and eat everything in sight when awake so you'd think they would sleep forever after that!

Mid-post. Have had to get dt2 from his non-existant nap. He woke dt1 up who I hope is going to go back to sleep. Thought he may sleep on me but know he is laughing loudly and typing on the keyboard. In fact he wants to say something.

zq1ed3csdxz\.

There that's what he thinks bloody kids.

Ah yes, tv. I too used to be a smug parent who never let DD watch tv and then I had twins and all that went right out the window! At least since moving back we've got cbeebies rather watching every episode of pingu ever (Canadian tv not soggreat)

We've had a shit week. We went down to my parents and all 3 kids had horrible cold. DD had it the worst and basically had temp all wweek, ate nothing and was beside herself. Trouble is I'm not very good with ill people at the best of times and that combined with me being under the weather and just basically at the end of my tether meant the proverbial hit the fan.

I've managed fine until now looking after the 3, but not having had anything close to a full night sleep for over 10 months and doing it solo (well, with DH but ykwim) has finally finally cracked me. There's nothing anyone can suggest as I've just got to carry on, but I'm feeling pretty right now.

On a more positive note - welcome garden and never. (Ps hope you don't get put off by the moaning! I'm not that miserable normally! )

Hey nancy and garden! What great weights for your babies both of you

Hey mines the grizzling was 20 mins last night, down from 30 the night before so I'm calling that progress! DT2 just whinges but then DT1 starts yelling and for a while it feels like they're both going "shut UP!" "no, YOU shut up!" etc till they fall asleep.

red, mines, we're still camped out in the kitchen for now while the girls can't crawl but soon moving to the living room and the temptationn t put on the telly will be massive. I've sat with DT1 watching the last 10 mins of Casualty when she woke up early from her nap and she was looking at the screen all happy and surprised like , why didn't you tell me??? This is great!

red, I had the illness can't-cope crisis too, when my DD had the temp of 39.6 for 5 (5!!!) days before a chest infection was diagnosed, boys so wheezy with colds they were on inhalers, me exhausted to the point of tears at the drop of a hat. Then it improved a bit, then the first day DD was well enough to walk a bit again (she spent a week being carried/ cuddled/ not weight bearing or walking) we went to the ducks and she'd lost weight, was wobbly and fell and split her head so I'd to take them all to A&E and have her head glued. And had a real can't do this and look after them all moment. But you are amazing with your three, they'll get over this cold, as will you, and things will look brighter again.

How's your DT2's exczema now?

I do no tv until after tea, but my DD gets obsessive about it and the tantrums with it going off aren't worth an easy 30 minutes iykwim! So its easier not to put it on.

Welcome garden and Nancy and I'm off without writing all I want to as usual ...

oh god, sorry everyone's been ill, sounds horrendous!!

mine had a cold last week (their first!) and it broke my heart to hear them wheezing and coughing! seem to have recovered now though!

i'm breastfeeding them and i often feel like i don't have enough milk - my boobs tend to be full in the morning but as of the afternoon they seem pretty empty. they're putting on weight but they always wanna feed loads late afternoon / evening and i feel like they're not getting much milk at all. did / does anyone else have this?

Hi Nancy, absolutely. Mine and reds are (before weaning anyway) exclusively bf and i was always like that. I really struggled earlier on with near constant feeding from 3/4pm til 11 ish. Without help with my DD I wouldn't have managed I don't think. Mine were also very 'colicky' though, which passed for one but the other is probably cows milk protein intolerant- been very miserable with a recent dairy challenge anyway. So I'm not sure if their cluster feeding was worse because one always had reflux/ tummy ache. But afternoon/ evening cluster feeding is very normal. And even knowing I would be.constantly making milk and that feeding loads is just the way of establishing your milk supply and there'd be enough (and successfully ebf my DD) i still worried there wasn't enough milk. You're doing a great job! If they seem happy between feeds and are having wet and dirty nappies I'd say they're getting plenty of milk.

Totally normal nancy. Don't get hung up on what your breasts are doing/feel like. It often bears no relation to what's coming out. Someone once said to me (they were American, so bear with the outirght religiosity) "If God intended us to know how much milk our breasts were producing, he would have stuck flow meters on them." Ha ha. Like dream says, go by the babies and what they're doing. If they're growing, you are doing right.

Am off out to yoga. Scared. First proper attempt at 'fitness' for flipping forever. Wish me luck.

Hello again,

welcome garden and Nancy and congratulations!
I have bg 9 month old twins.

so much has been going on since I last posted...where do I begin?

well Beyoglu well done on the sleep front, I will not ignore but I am a bit , ok more than a bit really

we're not making much progress on that front, it's more one step forward and two back... some nights they'll only wake each, then I have some nights when dtb decides to feed every.bloody.two.hours!

NOrmally it is easy to get them back to sleep (feedfeedfeed), but last night dtg woke up around 9.30 and she fed and fed FOREVER, and she will not feed lying down, no madam, I have to sit up, cheecky baby! I say feed, but chew would be more approriate tbh, that was no feeding, she needs to suck, but dummies or fingers (or anything else, except me) is no good for her, I was beyond exhausted. Eventually even she got tired to suck on an ampty breast but was still v unhappy and moany and fidgety but eventually went to sleep in bed with me.

It made me think I really need to stop her relying on mbreastfeeding to go to sleep but HOW?? Dh tried settling her but she wouldn't have it.

That aside they are happy contented babies, dtb is CRAWLING, and she is not far behind, they also both have a tooth each and one on the way.

and who said something about feeling inadequate? Yeap, that's me most of the time, what with four, especially with my older two who are having to make do with scraps of time, and often I'm short tempered and distracted anyway... I do feel very bad for them but the night before yesterday I tried NOT to rely on them and it all went pearshaped, with dtg getting upset in her cot while I was trying to settle her brother, ending up with her vomiting TWICE on me so we both had to change twice, her brother crying in teh abckgroudn and me yelling for dd1 to help me. MASSIVE GUILT TRIP to follow, I actually had a little cry, as felt so hopeless about it all, and feel it is unfair to all of the kids, but what can I do short of having MIL move in with us over my dead body ?

sorry massive moan of a post, just wanted to add for Nancy all of mine cluster fed in the evening too. I know it's not recommended but when it got unbearable I gave them a little top up of expressed milk or formula, just so my nipples could have a rest. It was never big amounts and usually after hours of feeding, so my breasts were still stimulated enough to boost supply, just not shredded to pieces .

BB3 hello , come back!!

rednellie

sorry you are feeling low, I guess we all reach this point sooner or later, I reach it a few times a day

Hope yoga helped? I should try and do something like that...

here's some , and [chocs] all round!

claire didn't want to read and run but just have time to say you sound pretty hard and yourself it is really really hard having dc's (the hardest job you'll ever love?) and it's so easy to beat yourself up for the things you do to make it all happen. I do all the time and it's normal we're all great mums achieving loads abd our dc's love us no matter so we must be doing ok.

Also it sounds like teething doesn't it which we are having here too (dt1 has 6 and another on way causing bad days and worse nights, dt2 has cut 2 with no complaints) but I don't really know.

I love that ours are the same age. Mine are both crawling now and pulling to stand (arrggghhhhh).

But sorry I won't accept do you have any ? I'll take the chocs though.

Hope you start feeling better and everyone else too but like you said we all have those days, or are lying if we say we don't (thinking of the completely shattered parents of 6 week old twins I met in Porthcawl today-every cloud...)

hard 'on' yourself. ffs