Twins!

(99 Posts)
HystericalParoxysm Mon 10-Jun-13 22:08:50

Had an 8 week scan today and discovered I'm expecting non ID twins blush
I sort of expected it but it still feels surreal. Explains the sickness and the fatness though!
They will be babies 3 and 4 for me. Do you get different antenatal care with fraternal twins?

elisio1 Fri 14-Jun-13 09:01:44

Hello beachesandbuckets, glad you're still hanging in there! Hope your twins turn so that you are able to at least consider a natural delivery. I had scan yesterday and , since both of mine are transverse, am booked in for C-section next week. Eek. It has all felt so surreal up until now, but now have to face reality!

Do you know what gender your twins are? Mine are b/g and my older son is desperate to meet his sister twin but is rather dismissive of the other! Hopefully DS2 will look after him!

Glad you're getting excited. I am feeling better about the whole situation but still slightly terrified about how much life is going to change!

We're getting a Ford Galaxy too! Neighbours with 3 older kids have one and swear by it.

Keep me posted..

Franykins Fri 14-Jun-13 09:22:26

We've been looking at the Renault Espace Grand, even with the 7 proper seats it has amazing boot space for all we could need. Found some decent priced ones out there.

Have my first midwife app today since finding out its twins, rather excited smile

beachesandbuckets Sat 15-Jun-13 20:55:19

Eliso, nice to speak again. 2 girls here, my poor ds (the eldest) is going to have 3 YOUNGER SISTERS, poor lad. Both are very excited and have named them, but we are yet to think of names.
Husband still not come around to idea, which is going to be hard for me if he doesn't change his mind.
Good luck for next week, let's pm if you fancy?
Franykins, I had a Renault, sorry to say it was extremely unreliable even though relatively new.

putthecrispsDOWN Sun 16-Jun-13 20:57:57

Hello all...can I join? I'm 12ish weeks pregnant with twins (ivf so not ID twins). These will be numbers 2 and 3...Dd is 3 and will be almost 4when they are born. Am somewhere in between ecstatic and terrified. Everyone who finds out keeps talking about how we won't cope/have enough room/it will upset our daughter. We are much more positive than this...are we being naive?!

Plus have you guys looked into folic acid? At 9weeks I was told I should have been taking 5,pmg each day up until 12 weeks (although other people have been told different). Worth asking your mw if you are early on I think.

CrabAppleTree Sun 16-Jun-13 23:15:21

I am on a "due in Jan" thread but those ladies takl so much and I can't keep up - this thread has been a saviour for me since Tuesday night - thank you all

Elisio = wow - I BET it all feels real - please (when you have a chance) will you come back and tell us all how it goes. Thanks for your kind words.

Welcome Puthecrispsdown sorry you have had some negativity. We are daunted but mostly positive and feeling blessed and excited.

Franykins - car-wise we think we're looking at a Seat Alhambra but its early days. And since i am due round Xmas I am worried about snow (which we have had the last few years) and not giving up our 4x4 until we have safely got to hospital!

Have told a few more people over the w/e (yet to tell my work yet though)
Have booked another m/w appt to bring my official 12 week scan further and to allow them to give me more time to check both babies etc

Franykins Mon 17-Jun-13 09:46:27

beachesandbuckets thanks for the heads up, its just the massive boot space even with all 7 seats in that appeals. We have also been looking at the Seat CrabAppleTree and its looking good. Just need to get some test driving in I guess. Waiting for DP's car to sell and my PPI payment to come in (good timing!) then we can get looking. I am gonna miss my BMW coupe though, although DP is having this so I will still get to drive it wink

Its official, at 16+3 I am massive!!!! Went to a concert on sat night and some stranger in the toilet cue said I should use the disabled one rather than cueing as I can't have long left, I just said no I'm ok waiting (hello pregnant not disabled) and actually I'm not due until November but its twins. The shock on her face was so funny but made me feel MASSIVE sad I admit I look about 25 weeks probably(maybe more?!?!?!) but did have a bit of 'padding' to begin with blush Oh well I'm loving my bump hehe.

putthecrispsDOWN Mon 17-Jun-13 17:56:38

Thanks crabapple. I'm due 4 January so probably at a similar stage to you. frany I am also huge at only 12weeks! I teach and am getting lots of funny looks from the kids who I haven't told yet!

rednellie Tue 18-Jun-13 14:56:36

Crabapple, apologies for darting on, but I thought you might want to know there was an article in the most recent Tamba magazine about a twin home birth...it is possible!

My DD was 2 when our boys were born, it's been hard, and joyous, and hard, and amazing, and quite stressful, but lovely. smile But you can all do it, you will do it and you'll be rewarded by having the joy of multiples. Also, you will get to moan more than anyone else. wink

We've got a VW touran and it's fab. Totally reliable, room for 3 car seats in a row, so we took the two back seats out to have a giant boot. Kept one car seat in our garage and the other down at my parents so if we ever have to have another adult in the car we can.

And I can't remember who's got the breech twin/s. Mine were breech right up till 36 weeks then spent the next two weeks turning all the time, they were both head down on my last appointment at 37.6weeks. And my OB was willing to attempt a double breech birth because of my previous pregnancy/labour, her skills and the fact the pregnancy was healthy and good. We didn't need her skills in the end, but it's good to look at options, because they are there. And your pregnancy is higher risk, not necessarily high risk if you and the babies are well. It's easy to get terrified with multiples, but it's good to keep the facts straight and not get too stressed. HTH!

Congratulations to all the twin ladies on here. Am in slightly different position as I am a survivor with 15 month old twins and a 19 year old.Modern families, huh...

Am cutting and pasting a blog post I did for people who've just seen two little hearts on the scans. If you want to read more look up likepeasinapod.com/. There are some more posts on the actual birth story with some bits about your rights as a multiple Mum (v important, there are new NICE guidelines, swot up on them, they're there for a reason but your midwife might not be aware). And then 'Of Cabbages and Slings' is about stuff to buy (and not).

Single most important bit of advice? NEVER HAVE SEX AGAIN!!! Seriously. A combination of age plus the fact my body has obviously decided to start firing out multiple eggs meant the docs said my chance of any subsequent pregnancy being two OR MORE was 90%!!!!!!!

**

So, you’re expecting twins! Congratulations! Just steel yourself for the fact that most people’s first words won’t be ‘congratulations’, they’ll be distinctly unhelpful sharp drawings in of breath or ‘sh*t’…

Get some flyers printed immediately to hand out to the zillion people who stop you in the street with a tailored version of:

- Yes, they’re twins
- No, they’re not identical. You can tell that really by looking, can’t you.
- No, they’re both girls. The dresses are a bit of a giveaway.
- No, we didn’t do IVF. And actually that’s a bit cheeky.
- No, we don’t have ‘an evil one’, thank you very much, you strange old lady you..

Be prepared to become a bit of a local celebrity. Every baby is special but people are peculiarly fascinated with twins. Sometimes that’s lovely – that strangers share your wonder. But sometimes you can feel like you’ve given birth to bearded ladies.

Buy shares in muslin factories. Not muslim factories. That’s quite another matter (though probably very successful in their own right I’m sure). Baby books recommend a layette of 6. I bought 12 initially. And then another 12 on Amazon within a few days of them being born. I think we now have 72 but we still frequently seem precariously close to running out. And you can always use them to make jam with all the spare time you have on maternity leave. JOKE!

Having twins is a bit of a numbers game. Two of them. Doubling up on some things; buying extra large for others. But those numbers apply to much more than just Stuff. Acquaint yourself with all the numbers as that way you’ll be prepared for the worst (but hopefully what happens will be the best). If you work, assume that you will have to go on maternity leave much sooner than a singleton, and have this conversation early doors with HR. 60% of twins are born before 34 weeks. You have much more frequent prenatal hospital appointments (weekly scans and consultations towards the end, even more so if you’re at risk of twin to twin transfusion). Plus, given we’re not designed to carry two, pregnancy can (not always) be much harder. I was in agony with a split pelvis, broken ribs (from the inside), and could hardly walk from about 7 months. In hindsight, I worked far too long. I remember one meeting where I literally had to present while lying on the floor. Commuting was horrendous (I had one woman refuse to give up her seat because I didn’t have a ‘baby on board’ badge, despite being the size of the Olympic Park). You just end up in a hideous guilt trip: that you’re not doing your job properly, and that you’re not taking care of the little beans/yourself.

Do not, on any account, move house at 7 months. Even if you live in a shoebox. Frankly, most twins could fit in an actual one. I was in constant white-faced panic that I’d go into labour pre- or mid- move. So much so I may well have done. And then you’re just this big lumbering whale when it comes to carrying and unpacking boxes.

Make sure everything’s ready – nursery set up, hospital bags packed, you’re off work, and nothing major is happening – by about 28 weeks. Which hopefully then gives you 10 weeks (most hospitals induce twins at 38 weeks if they haven’t come out already) to slob on the sofa, eat cake, consider trying out the kids’ potty because you can’t face the stairs to the bathroom, and watch that Borgen box set you never got round to.

This also impacts on Dad. If there is any way whatsoever he can get more than the standard two weeks’ paternity leave, try. Otherwise that may all get used up while you’re still in hospital. You really need him at home with you. Especially if, as happens with most multiples, you’ve had a Caeserean. Do not under any circumstances do what we did and agree that, within 10 days of you coming home, he can work 400 miles away from home and weekly commute. You will go pop; I did.

You may be as proud as a Queen, and as poor as a church mouse, but GET HELP. If you can afford it, try to get a maternity nurse. They’re an extra pair of hands, help your confidence levels and, most importantly, their job is to leave you with the twins in A Routine (more anon). If you can’t afford it, humble that pride and ask all the friends and family who would be spending money on endless cute outfits that they’ll grow out of in a week to subsidise her instead. Lots of people will offer practical help too; take them up on it. Don’t have ‘I’m fine’ as the default, and wrong, answer to any requests. Draw up a list of what would be helpful so people can be assigned tasks. For example my MIL was brilliant at cooking lots of family meals and bringing them round.

And then invest in outside help afterwards too. You CAN look after twins yourself, and run the house/shopping/cooking/cleaning/look after other children/occasionally brush your teeth. You can. But don’t. None of you will be happy. Remember – you are their world. If you’re on the verge of a breakdown, that’s not a nice world for them to be in.

I’ve sometimes felt guilty about having help. After all, lots of people have more than one child, and cope perfectly well. But, by definition, in ‘normal’ situations one child is older, and more biddable. There are lots of practical issues about having two small babies (just try the wartime mission that is bathing two of them safely on your own) but also emotional ones too which are, in many ways, just as hard. When people say ‘double trouble’ to me I say, no, it’s DIFFERENT trouble. After all, if you’re making up one portion of cheesey tuna pasta, there’s no problem in making two.

What I have found hardest of all is when they’re both upset, and the dreadful Sophie’s Choice of deciding which baby to comfort. And also the fact that you can’t do any of that delicious basking in your baby’s wonderfulness. Lying with one of them on your bed and gazing into each other’s eyes. Getting to know them as their own little person. Proper one-on-one play. Having someone to help out means you can whisk one twin off and spend a lovely half hour with them. Just them. So they grow to know that they’re one whole person, not just half a set of twins. Otherwise life with twins can become very mechanical; make sure you have space for some joy.

On which note, the numbers are also stark when it comes to post natal depression. Assume you will get it, and make sure you, and Dad, know the warning signs. Officially it stands at 36% for Mums of multiples; TAMBA (and other twin Mums) put it much higher. It’s no surprise – a devastating cocktail of double the hormones, probable hospitalisation, an EMCS, fatigue, the physical drain of breastfeeding two, the sheer logistical difficulty of it all, probably not eating properly, being even more housebound than most new Mums (even in London there were loads of shops I couldn’t get into with a double buggy, public transport is a no-no, plus it’s just so much effort in the early days to get them ready and out the house when you’re shattered and most things are a mouseclick away)…The wonderful news is that it’s completely treatable. Your brain’s been chemically altered; medicine can alter it back again. Do that early. There are no prizes for struggling through and your twins will suffer as a result.

So, The Routine. Get one. I got Gina Ford’s book and whilst not following her (often slightly crazy) advice to the letter, I DID follow her timetables. Feeding/putting down one baby on demand is masochistic enough; doing it with two, who may well have very different demands, is practically suicidal. It means the first few weeks will be hard. I remember sitting on the steps outside their nursery sobbing as I listened to theirs. But it means we’ve had babies who sleep 7pm to 7am from about 2 months. And it’s amazing how rosier the world looks when you’ve had a proper sleep. Their milk and meal times and their naps are not just set in stone; they’ve been laser drilled into it and I breathe fire on anyone who tries to alter it by a minute.

Talking to other twin devotees of The Routine about this it may explain why a lot of twins, contrary to the ‘double trouble’ prediction are actually quite calm and amenable babies. They know what’s going to happen, when. Positively Pavlovian. You put them in their cot and they’re straight in with the thumb and up with the teddy because that’s Just What Happens. To such an extent, a friend of ours can’t leave hers at the nursery all day because even at aged three they’re expecting their lunchtime nap!

I’ve written extensively in the post Of Cabbages and Slings (http://tinyurl.com/cple2en) about what products to buy, and not buy. Get Bumbos early. They’re brilliantly handy when it comes to bottle feeding two little people at the same time. Get highchairs early too. Buy cot mattresses, buggies and car seats new; buy everything else secondhand. It’s crazy buying new for a tadpole who, if they kept growing at the same rate as they do in their first two years, would be a 29 feet tall frog by the time they’re ten. Especially when you have two. Learn to love a BOGOFF. On no account actually visit a supermarket (none of the twin buggies have a big enough tray for shopping anyway); do it all online and bulk buy. Become an eBay powerseller/buyer. I’m operating a two out, two in policy ie I don’t buy any new clothes till I’ve sold what they have.

If you’re going to attempt breastfeeding a) get as much help as you can in hospital b) buy nipple shields and Jellonet beforehand (it’s like gauze impregnated with Vaseline, used for burns and wounds, and you can wear it in between feeds). The problem is with two that you can never rest one boob, so for the first week or so it can be tear-inducing agony in the small hours. And don’t beat yourself up if you can’t. We’re not meant to.

If you’re not on it already, switch to the cheapest dual fuel tariff with heavy usage you can find. Assume that the tumbledrier will be on twice a day, you’ll have the heating on all day for them and you, microwaves and kettles will be on all the time (also get another kettle especially for bottles as it is The Single Most Annoying Thing In The World when you’ve got water to the perfect temperature for milk and someone decides to make a cup of tea).

Tea. Resign yourself to never having a hot cup thereof again. Or buy a thermos.

Stock the freezer with ready meals and hang onto every takeaway menu that plops through the door. You ain’t going nowhere, honey. And if you’re breastfeeding you can star in your own series of Woman vs Food. Guilt-free gorging. In fact, treat the whole thing just like Christmas; cook in advance, both literally and figuratively. Assume you will have no time as soon as they’re born so, heck, you may as well write their wedding speeches now.

I’ve also written at great length (takes almost as long to read as the birth itself!) about our experience with hospitals and twins in Bumblers, Beeyatches and Bonny Babes (http://tinyurl.com/d78w2yg). Essentially, assume that you’ll be surrounded by the incompetent and mean-spirited, swat up on your rights, and be ready to go into battle for your babies, and you. Scroll down to the end of the birth story post for all my recommendations.

Find other local twin Mums. Twinsclubuk and TAMBA should have lists of local clubs. Go and meet them beforehand to get some tips and make friends so you have someone to call and ask all the endless ‘how the blazes’ questions.

Borrow two large and heavy dolls from a small child and practise how you will lift two babies safely, how you’ll manage getting them both into the bathroom, undressed, into the bath, not drowned, out of the bath, dressed and downstairs…and how you’ll get them both onto the sofa, then onto the breastfeeding cushion, positioned, and then off again. Or if you’re bottle feeding, how you can prop one up in the corner of the sofa and one in your arm, one handed. There are some useful clips on Youtube to help!

Tell everyone in good time that you don’t want to do the matchy matchy look with twins (unless you do!)

If you have high maintenance hair, start growing it out. You may just manage to visit a hairdresser once a year to get your fringe cut.

Never ever let onto your partner in the early days that you sometimes get them confused too! Even if they’re not identical, babies (whisper this) all look pretty similar when they’re wee. Find a secret sign to distinguish them (Romilly had a frilly top to her ear).

Keep a chart each day which sets out how long each has drunk, from which boob (TMI men but you often have a less efficient boob), and what’s come out the other end, and when. This helps avoid the nightmare one triplet Mum told me about when she realised she’d fed one of them three times and one of them had had nothing!!! The chart can then be modified to include what they’ve eaten too.

Lower your expectations. Your house may have been featured in Elle Deco; your dinner parties rivalled Nigella. Just getting through each day, one day at a time, with twins should earn you admiration enough from your family, friends and the world at large.

But finally, feel blessed. I talked about numbers at the beginning. The incidence of twins is very low (we think it’s higher than it is because we tend to notice them more, because of their specialness). You have two little miracles in your tummy; you are a latterday Mary! ‘Normals’ don’t get the heartstopping wonderfulness of watching two mites snuggled up in the same Moses basket sucking each other’s thumbs. One year on, mine have just worked out that they can tickle each other too . Endless hilarity. I honestly think if the airline sit us together next month then the three hours to Portugal can be spent perfectly amusingly if I just take their socks off.

Oh, and very last finally – never have sex again. Unless you’re mad. I was told my chance of any subsequent pregnancy being twins – or MORE! – was 90% based on a combination of age, and the fact my body is obviously deciding to have one last hurrah. No, no, NO!

Most of all, best of British as you head over the trenches. You will survive. It may be double the pooh, in all senses, but it’s very frequently double the joy too. And those moments more than compensate. It also just seems, well, very Alpha Female and efficient; you get a nuclear family in one (very long, very sore) push. So well done you!

I’m very happy to answer anybody’s questions online or over the phone or in person if you’re adding to the Wirral’s paucity of multiples. I have Eccles cakes!

rednellie Tue 18-Jun-13 19:23:32

Hmmm, could've just posted a link to the relevant entry hmm

I've just read your blog post about your birth and you say that you haven't heard a single happy story. Well, you did, mine, when we were both on the antenatal thread. I don't think saying that is particularly helpful. Or true.

rednellie Tue 18-Jun-13 19:28:51

(Apologies Hysterical! Don't want to derail your lovely thread. smile)

And mine. Totally different to rednellies but I had a wonderful elcs birth for my twins, no.2 & 3 for me too, and my eldest was nearly 19 months when they were born.

Seat Alhambra super reliable for us, I love it. I do get out, every day. I don't go to the supermarket, or shopping at all much, but that doesn't bother me. Shoe shopping for the children is about as exciting as it gets for shopping, but parks, throwing stones in rivers, various messy play groups- we're in!

It's hard, and tiring, and the nights are very hard, but I wouldn't change it. I do have a lot of help though. And three very lovely and special children. Good luck all you pregnant twin mums to be!

rednellie Tue 18-Jun-13 20:06:27

Sorry stinking, I've actually just read your mammoth post properly and it has made me a bit cross. Lots of people manage fine without paid help, that is not to diss those who do, that's great if you want it and can afford it. But I wouldn't say those of us who have managed on our own with older DCs have always been on the verge of a nervous breakdown - that is a spectacularly unhelpful thing to say on this thread. And some people really can't afford it. Even if all their friends help. At all. Ever.

Also, you sort of say we're not meant to a) carry or b) breast feed two babies. That's just plainly not true. You may have had a hard pregnancy and lots of us do, but many don't and either way that is not irrefutable proof that our bodies aren't able to carry two babies, or more. And as for the breast feeding, well, what you've written about "WE're not meant to" - that's just bollocks. We've got two breasts. Heck, there are triplet mums on here who've fed theirs almost exclusively, with older DCs and no help and still been ok. The reverse is also true, but to make a sweeping statement like that, well...

I know you are trying to warn/advise/be helpful to new parents of multiples, but some of what you write isn't actually true and you would do better just speaking from your own experience. I think you could write something really meaningful then, rather than writing on behalf of all of us about this complicated thing of having more than one baby in one go.

theboob Tue 18-Jun-13 20:17:30

Hello ! I'm 18+ weeks with b/g twins . These babies will be number 5+6 for me and i also feel awful and ill constantly , hope it passes soon .
We have a nissan serrena with 8 seats so will fit us perfect .

twopeas Tue 18-Jun-13 20:36:01

My tip to the new twin mums to be is to watch out for some of the very nasty twin mothers on here. It tends to be the sleep deprived ones who are the most scathing.

rednellie Tue 18-Jun-13 20:40:58

Are you talking to me twopeas? This is the first time I've ever written anything negative really. I just felt very strongly about some of the stuff stinking had written, especially in the context of this thread. I'm not sure how I've upset you, but I'm sorry if I have.

beachesandbuckets Tue 18-Jun-13 20:51:30

Bishop, your thread was interesting and appreciate the effort that you made to post it, but concerned that - particularly first timers - may take it as gospel. I am 31 weeks with twins and am still managing to work as a lawyer (have to for financial reasons) despite having 2 older dcs and building work at house due to recently discovered problem in walls - no cleaner or help in sight, and coping fine. Will not have any help post birth again due to financial reasons, and a less than enthusiastic dh.

Oooh, I'm a very sleep deprived twin mum. One of mine is indeed the Amazing Non Sleeping Baby, though he's now 14 months grin However, I hope that hasn't made me nasty and scathing. Who exactly are we talking about here? I can certainly vouch that rednellie , while also not exactly well-rested, is neither nasty nor scathing. Not that I can do what she does with her three alone, I'm not that capable wink . There are a lot of supportive twin mums on here though, some of whom have become real life friends to me (& one who lives 15 min away, who'd have thunk it?!) So don't give up on the mn twin mums altogether smile

I did manage to ebf my twins too. Hard work but possible. so if you ignore everything else, I love my Alhambra and had bags of milk for two smile

That might read wrong- clearly I'm meaning rednellie is one of the supportive twin mums here. We've posted together on here since we found out we were pg with twins, so well over a year now, and I've found lovely mn fellow multiple support invaluable

rednellie Tue 18-Jun-13 20:59:23

I'm not sleep deprived dreaming, I've had 5 hrs sleep in a row for the past two weeks. I'm on fire at the mo! wink

Beaches, you are much better at this putting things into words malarky than I!

beachesandbuckets Tue 18-Jun-13 21:08:14

Thanks Red, at the end of the day we are all in the special club of mummies to twins or soon to be, and shld be looking to look out and support each other. Some of the bits in Stinking made my heart drop a little and made me feel a bit apprehensive of what's coming up for me (am 31 weeks), and I wld like to think I am a battle worn mum of two (albeit singletons) already. But her heart is in the right place and there was no malice and will check out her blog.

rednellie Tue 18-Jun-13 21:11:27

I know, you are right of course! I've just got a bit of history which isn't anything to do with anyone else and you are a much better person than me. Sorry everyone!

You and all the other mums to be will do really well - there's no reason why not. I always liked my Mum's advice about things, she'd give it to me straight but with a positive spin. It always made everything seem much more manageable. And I'm still here, doing alright with a 3.5 yr old and 15 month old twins. And we have a laugh, we really do. They are all at such a wonderful age now, I can't get enough of them.

Nancy54 Tue 18-Jun-13 21:34:56

Well just to put my two penny worth in: the sleep deprived twin mums on here have been such a great source of advice and support! They're definitely not nasty!,

And yes it is poss to ebf twins, have a crap routine, have not much help etc without having a nervous breakdown!

Good luck to all of you who are expecting and welcome to this wonderful (if sleep deprived and frazzled) little world!

beachesandbuckets Tue 18-Jun-13 21:39:47

Whilst there are some knowledgeable mummies on here, how many had or are planning a natural birth? My consultant is really pushing it for me, as I have given birth to 2 10lb'ers, the last coming out very quickly, he thinks I shld have no problem with twins, that I am 'made for it' etc. The issue is, one of my twins is lying transverse, I am worried about going into labour really quickly with twins and not being able to get to hospital quick enough or getting the second one out without being deprived of oxygen (a family member suffered this and had been profoundly disabled his whole life). My preference would be a c section for these reasons (I know it isn't a walk in the park option). My consultant is not listening to me. Any thoughts/comments? Ta

rednellie Tue 18-Jun-13 21:49:35

beaches, I can see where your consultant is coming from and I can see how you feel. To be frank, you are more important at this point. I'm a massive natural childbirth advocate - I had all my babies vaginally with no drugs. Not to win prizes, that's just what happened. But I had a hard path with the twins, both were breech up until 36 weeks, I had a total twat of an OB to begin with, changed, had a much nicer one who respected me, my body and my twins and I felt I could face anything with her - whether that was breech birth, c-section, normal delivery, whatever. What was important was I trusted her.

I know other of the twin mums on here opted for c-sections, others like me had vaginal deliveries of one kind of another - what links us all is that our choices were important and valid. If you don't have a HCP in charge of your care who respects that then it might be worth searching around for one who does. HTH

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