The Hobbit will now be made into three films: too much?

(109 Posts)
BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 19:30:14

Do you think this is solely a money-making exercise, or are you happy at so much bang for the buck?

Film One - up until the barrel escape
Film Two - all of Smaug and Laketown until his death
Film Three - Battle of Five Armies and its fallout

It's all extended because there's all the stuff in the LOTR Appendices timeline about the White Council and their suspicions about who the Necromancer might be, and then their attack on Dol Guldur and driving him out (SPOILER he later arises as Sauron in Mordor).

Is this the geekiest first post ever?

LePan Fri 17-Aug-12 19:41:44

erm....

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 19:43:47

Erudite as always, Pan.

HaitchJay Fri 17-Aug-12 19:44:24

Interesting wording for a first post?

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 19:47:52

What does that mean, Haitch?

Somebloke Fri 17-Aug-12 19:53:17

"Is this the geekiest first post ever?"

I'd say you're well into the top 10.

Somebloke Fri 17-Aug-12 19:53:26

Welcome BTW.

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 19:56:30

Ah, I should have said "geekiest OP", rather than "geekiest first post".

Sadly, it's far from my first post.

(Pimms helps the bedtime routine go smoother)

LePan Fri 17-Aug-12 19:57:06

to expand....erm,well..

HaitchJay Fri 17-Aug-12 19:58:30

Do you think this is solely a money-making exercise, or are you happy at so much bang for the buck?

Sounds like a magazine article !

If youre not a newbie I apologise but we get far too many people starting threads for their lazy research

bisjolympics Fri 17-Aug-12 20:00:01

Is Viggo Mortenson sex god Aragon going to be in any of them?

BelfastBloke is not a newbie! grin

Tbh I think that 2 films would have been enough, I don't think there's enough plot to hold my attention for three films.

LePan Fri 17-Aug-12 20:00:41

ooh wrong note there Haitch. BB is legend.

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 20:00:58

Being a geek (or is it a nerd) i've already done way too much 'research' on this topic.

No, sadly (or saddo-ly) I just felt like chatting about this crap.

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 20:03:00

bisjolympics, Aragorn could be in it, but not Viggo Mortensen.

Aragorn was only a child during the time-span of The Hobbit.

HaitchJay Fri 17-Aug-12 20:04:51

blush sorry was confused by the. 'first post'comment.

bisjolympics Fri 17-Aug-12 20:04:59

Can't they do the future equivalent of flash backs so Viggo would be in it? <clutches at straws>

SummerRain Fri 17-Aug-12 20:06:02

Christ, I can't even remember the bits films 1&3 are about. <<<DISCLAIMER... I was 9 when I read the book>>>

I do think it sounds a bit much but Peter Jackson is a great director so I'll trust him for now

I've already been put off watching The Hobbit after seeing Love Actually recently - I'd forgotten about the Martin Freeman porn bit and now that's all I can think of whenever I see previews of The Hobbit! confused

Bamaluz Fri 17-Aug-12 20:06:33

They're stretching a thin children's book into three films, so yes I think it's definitely a money making exercise.
LOTR was in three parts anyway, but The Hobbit? No.

Tell me more.

I have been waiting for this for ages, as I recall from barrel to battle is only short part of the book?

I have worries. Will that same bloke be Bilbo? Will Smaug be twee with glowing eyes?

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 20:08:05

Yes they are doing flashbacks (Frodo is being told the story by Bilbo).

But as yet there is no mention of Aragorn popping up.

Another section of Mumsnet might get warm in the gussets at the news that Benedict Cumberbatch is playing two different roles, though.

My favorite bit was the forest, and the spiders. I remember thinking the ryhmes were so funny as a kid <childgeek> where he calls the spiders names.

LePan Fri 17-Aug-12 20:09:23

snigger.

<informative>

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 20:09:56

Yes Ian Holm will still be Bilbo when he is talking to Elijah Wood's Frodo.

But Martin Freeman (from the Office) will be playing the younger Bilbo in the main sections.

PicklesThePottyMouthedParrot Fri 17-Aug-12 20:10:54

Oooooo but three films will last longer. Dp im happy!

Oh not BC. What is he going to be...hmmm. £1000000000 says that elf king of the forest who has weird midnight parties in the spider forest, & who gets a big sparkly emerald necklace at the end.

Ah... well, thats ok then. Glad to hear of younger Bilbo.

Who will be the totty? Please not BC, surely there's better than that. And I cant remember any women in the hobbit, am I going mad?

InkyWater Fri 17-Aug-12 20:13:51

I have a theory they will bring the best character Tom Bombadil in to try to appease those who were pretty pissed off at his absence from the first films moi???

I'm sure they could write him in somehow - but tbh i think even two films is pushing it for the Hobbit.

Oh, IW- I was going to say I hope they get a good Beorn, after missing out Tom Bombadil in the other. In my head TB looks like Freddie Starr. Is that weird?

bisjolympics Fri 17-Aug-12 20:17:12

BC is a mere boy compared to the luscious VM.

azazello Fri 17-Aug-12 20:19:54

It should have Orlando in I think (isn't his dad the king of Mirkwood?). I don't think BC sounds very promising given he's prancing around doing an Andy Serkis.

I think it is probably purely a money making scheme but am willing to be persuaded otherwise. Given that the chances of them filming the Silmarillion etc are slim to none, I hope some of the good bits will be picked up in the Hobbit.

Or it will be 12 hours if moody trees and I'll have Twilight flashbacks.

I think this is probably even geekier, Op.

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 20:20:11

TOTTY:

They've invented a female elf. Name of Tauriel.

And Galadriel will be involved in the attack on the Necromancer.

And bloody Orloondo Bland will be back as Legolas.

Tho to be fair, Legolas is the son of the Elf-King, so he would have been there in the castle.

InkyWater Fri 17-Aug-12 20:20:54

Freddie Starr grin

I picture him more as a sort of pagan Santa Claus type figure.....(and what does that say about me??? confused)

VivaLeBeaver Fri 17-Aug-12 20:20:56

We had a thread on this last month.

I think it's a bad idea but will be happy to be proved wrong. I think the real Hobbit fanatics might like it, but that doesn't mean that they'll make for good films. I love the book but think three films will equal boring, slow paced films.

azazello Fri 17-Aug-12 20:23:49

Beorn= Robbie Coltrane in his Hagrid suit.

GetDownNesbitt Fri 17-Aug-12 20:28:15

Three films - one too many, I reckon. But given that I refused to watch Fellowship for six months because I expected it to be crap, I can't be relied on. I am stupid, and I now realise my mistake...

HiHowAreYou Fri 17-Aug-12 20:29:17

If they're all forty minutes long that'll be fine. But I expect they'll be seven hours or something.
God, that last LOTR one just refused to end.

InkyWater Fri 17-Aug-12 20:30:03

I liked the 80's Cartoon - there was some truly scary shit in that! grin

The Simarilion! Oh yes. Tho I actually preferred unfinished takes <outgeeks azazello efortlessly>

Tales, curse it. Not takes.

Yes, Beorn is Hagridy.

What about the Master of Laketown? And that other one who saves the day, the gloomy fucker?

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 20:33:28

OutGeeking?!?! I take that as a challenge:

Peter Jackson's company has the rights to LOTR and the Hobbit, but not to the Silmarillion.

Do I win?

LePan Fri 17-Aug-12 20:33:32

Am warmly reminded of CS Lewis' comment to Tolkien in their rooms in Oxford, when Tolkien was reading a section to CS. His interruption was:

"Oh no. Not another fucking orc."

motherinferior Fri 17-Aug-12 20:33:55

I am enormously looking forward to this blush grin

That is quite geeky. <kind>

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 20:36:18

"Oh no. Not another fucking orc."

Actually it was "Oh no. Not another fucking elf."

And it was Hugo Dyson, another member of the Inklings.

i DO win!

motherinferior Fri 17-Aug-12 20:37:17

I reckon it will be rip-rollicking Fambly Entertainment. All the inmates of the Inferiority Complex will enjoy it. Although obviously by the time the third one comes out DD1 will be 14 so it will be far far far too shaming to come with us grin

So when is the first one then? I can't wait, actually.

I liked them all singing in his hobbit hole and then fucking off the next day, with all their variously coloured hoods. Then giants? Then Rivendell, the Misty Mountains (v good), Mirkwood, barrell, Laketown, Smaug, Thrush, Battle, Crows, Treasure madness, the arkenstone, Happy ending. TBH it dosent seem enough for 3 films.

SlubberInAWrestlersLeotard Fri 17-Aug-12 20:42:16

I'm happy.

Gloomy fucker was Bard (the bowman).

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 20:43:37

Christmas 2012
Christmas 2013
Summer 2014

LePan Fri 17-Aug-12 20:44:22

Well, elf/orc....hmmm..Tolkien recalls it otherwise, to a long-standing friend of mine who was one of Tolkien's students. But T. and friend were in a pub so the facts could have been a bit blurred...smile

PicklesThePottyMouthedParrot Fri 17-Aug-12 20:46:07

This Christmas! grin

EcoLady Fri 17-Aug-12 20:47:44

Am reading it to DS as his bedtime story atm... three films is too money-grabbing. Far better to do 2 well.

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 20:58:20

Yeah, but you're forgetting about the whole Gandalf storyline. He disappears for half the book, to go off and deal with the Necromancer.

If the films turn out to be about the animosity between the Goblin race and the Dwarf race, and also about the Rise of Sauron, and the Hobbit storyline is only one of two/three narrative threads, then suddenly you do have enough material for three films.

Don't forget the films have to set up the Lord of the Rings films, so there will be more about Sauron than in the Hobbit book.

motherinferior Fri 17-Aug-12 21:01:03

Colleague has interviewed the bloke acting Bard. Apparently v good looking.

They won't do that awful Elf-song, will they?

Tra-la-la lally go back to the valley HAHA!

Ok, very good points BB, I see how they can flesh it out now. Although sticylt speaking thats not actually in the book. But ok, and could be interesting.

Can I confess I found Sam Gamgee so very irritating in book/film. I was rooting for Smeagol tbh.

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 17-Aug-12 21:11:48

Yer swingers Belfast!

New(ish) BF has been putting off our LoTR trilogy marathon until we could see the Hobbit. If he thinks I'm waiting 'til 2014 he has another thing coming.

DumSpiroSpero Fri 17-Aug-12 21:11:56

Hobbit totty aka Richard Armitage a Thorin Oakenshield.

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 21:14:10

Dione. It's 'another think coming'.

This has been well covered in Pedant's Corner. With much disagreement, to be fair to you.

motherinferior Fri 17-Aug-12 21:20:48

Ah but also will it have that smouldering tension? All those Meaningful Looks that Sam and Frodo kept exchanging?

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 17-Aug-12 21:31:57

Right, so I have told him the news and what did he say? What did he say?

He said "ooh, that means two trilogies. We'll have to do them over a long weekend in 2014".shock. He's keen, I'll give him that. Looks like I was the one with another think coming.

BTW, Belfast, not sure if yours was the geekiest 1st post ever, but it's deffo Top 5.grin

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 21:36:47

<proud>

DumSpiro- In a word: No.

He has a long nose and botox and a trimmed beard. No. Just no.

Oh MI- no, nooooooo that made me clench involuntarily.

LePan Fri 17-Aug-12 21:37:53

<thumps shoulder in manly fashion>

Your just like...^Balin^, Pan.

<runs>

HumphreyCobbler Fri 17-Aug-12 21:47:57

This is something I am REALLY looking forward to.

Ok, just watched the trailer. Kili is the TOTTY official. A deart of women though. They could have made Smaug female.

Ive killed it. I killed the thread with my vile lust for dwarves.

<despairing gurn>

DumSpiroSpero Fri 17-Aug-12 22:02:29

LordF - it's not Botox it's airbrushing.

Does imagining this underneath the beard and armour help at all?

Works for me!

I know I'm in a minority here but he's a bit hairless and smooth for my taste tbh

I like gnarled hairy men. Like Treebeard.

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 17-Aug-12 22:06:21

Oh my, I seem to have come over all unnecessary.blush

DumSpiroSpero Fri 17-Aug-12 22:07:39

So Thorin is all mine then?

Woo hoo! grin

Yes. You have Thorin, I get to keep Kili. Hurrah!!!!!

Dione, you could have...err...

DumSpiroSpero Fri 17-Aug-12 22:13:13

Anyone fancy an elf?

that made me snurk. thank you.

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 22:20:16

There is a debate amongst my (geek) friends as to whether the uber-Belfast-bloke James Nesbit is looking fine or looking appalling in the Hobbit trailer.

Any wimmin on Bumsnet care to comment?

DumSpiroSpero Fri 17-Aug-12 22:32:54
DioneTheDiabolist Fri 17-Aug-12 22:43:12

I'm sure Ill be well catered for. The casting director has a fine eye.grin

BelfastBloke Fri 17-Aug-12 23:14:11

You're liking the dwarf action, then Dione?

DioneTheDiabolist Sat 18-Aug-12 00:16:51

My bloke is 6'4" and I think that a dwarf would make an interesting addition to proceedings.grin

But seriously, whats not to like?

BelfastBloke Sat 18-Aug-12 07:38:49

With reference to our above discussion of Aragorn, here's a SPOILER-heavy discussion of his age from TheOneRing.net:

How old is PJ’s Gollum? And what could that mean?

A guest post by Elpidha Lirgalad

Ever since the release of Peter Jackson’s The Fellowship of the Ring in 2001, some eagle-eyed fans have been asking why it appears that no time passes at all between Bilbo’s 111th birthday party and Frodo’s departure from the Shire.

What does Tolkienlore say?

According to the dates that Tolkien gives in Appendix B of The Lord of the Rings, 17 years pass between Bilbo’s party in TA (Third Age) 3001 to Frodo’s departure in TA 3018. In between, Gandalf and Aragorn hunt Gollum, and Gandalf reads the scroll of Isildur in Minas Tirith in TA 3017 just before returning to the Shire to warn Frodo about the Ring.

In the film, however, none of the hobbits have aged a day since Bilbo’s party. Even Pippin, who, using Tolkien’s dates, would have been 11 years old at the time of the long-expected party.

Peter Jackson’s alternate timeline…

Now, new evidence appears to confirm that Jackson always intended to remove this seventeen-year gap. Instead, he seems to have shortened it to merely the time it would take Gandalf to race to Minas Tirith and back to the Shire.

This places the events of The Hobbit 60 years, not 77, before Frodo’s departure.

In two interviews, Andy Serkis, who masterfully portrays Gollum through performance capture, referenced a 60-year gap between Gollum’s appearances in The Hobbit and LOTR:

Spike TV. “Gollum as we know him…he’s a little bit hotter, and looks a bit cooler… he’s 600 years old; but in this he’s 540 years old.”
Empire magazine. “He has lived on his own in this cave in the Misty Mountains for about 400 years. Four hundred and forty years, to be precise — 60 years before Lord Of The Rings.”
Gollum’s first appearance in the events of LOTR is, by Tolkien’s timeline, in the year 3019. If his encounter with Bilbo was sixty years earlier, it would have taken place in TA 2959, not the Appendix B date of TA 2941.

A ripple effect through the timeline…

This change could have a ripple effect for other characters and events, most notably Aragorn.

According to Appendix B, Aragorn was born in TA 2931 and grew up in Rivendell. In TA 2956, “Aragorn meets Gandalf and their friendship begins,” and he leaves Rivendell one year later to begin “his great journeys and errantries.” To Tolkien, then, at the time of The Hobbit, Aragorn was 10 years old and living in Rivendell as Estel, without yet having any idea of his heritage.

In The Two Towers Extended Edition, film-Aragorn tells Éowyn that he is 87 years old; since this scene takes place in TA 3018, film-Aragorn’s birth year matches book-Aragorn’s in Tolkien’s timeline.

With the shift in dates referenced by Serkis, however, film-Aragorn could be 28 at the time of The Hobbit and could even have met Gandalf three years earlier and have already left Rivendell.

Although there has been no indication of an Aragorn or Estel casting in The Hobbit, it is possible that he could be referenced in some way. If Jackson stays consistent with his own timeline, at the very least, we should not expect to see a ten-year-old Estel in Rivendell.

Aragorn would be 28 and might even have already left Rivendell to begin his adventures.

JustSpiro Sat 18-Aug-12 08:55:04

The tallest dwarf actor, Graham McTavish, is 6' 4 in RL!

Belfast I am in awe of your Tolkien knowledge - I enjoyed the LOTR films but tbh my main interest in The Hobbit is the Thorin factor! grin

BelfastBloke Sun 19-Aug-12 12:22:06

Graham McTavish was in the most recent Rambo film, beating up Stallone.

Benedict Cumberbatch has got no chance.

JustSpiro Sun 19-Aug-12 20:19:35

Richard Armitage (be still my beating heart!) who plays Thorin is a couple of inches shorter than GMcT in RL so he had to wear lifts in his shoes and PJ thought Thorin should be the tallest dwarf grin!

Have you been watching the production videos?

BelfastBloke Sun 19-Aug-12 21:33:42

No, I prefer speculating.

JustSpiro Sun 19-Aug-12 21:58:13

They don't give much away at all but it's really interesting to see all the stuff going on behind the scenes. Seeing John Rhys-Davies (Gimli) rock up on set to meet his 'dad' Gloin, was brilliant! grin

BelfastBloke Sun 26-Aug-12 20:43:07

Hey JustSpiro I watched one of the production videos; it was quite fun actually.

The tiny actor who stands in for Bilbo (wasn't he in Willy Wonka film as ALL the Oompa Loompas?) said he wanted to play Legolas; and then at the very end of the video they have a fight sequence of him dressed as Legolas.

FrankelSaysRelax Wed 19-Sep-12 18:05:12

New trailer released today.

FrankelSaysRelax Wed 19-Sep-12 18:10:02

FYI, BC is playing Smaug (via motion capture) and the Necromancer.

Also, he is a sex god - FACT grin

BelfastBloke Thu 20-Sep-12 08:27:19

There are five different endings to the new trailer

The Gollum one is the best.

OatyBeatie Thu 20-Sep-12 08:34:10

It's very odd, making into three films. A large part of the charm of it is that it is relatively slight, a simple children's story. The subtitle "There and Back again" captures that simplicity.

Perhaps the three instalments should be:

1. There ...
2. ... And Back Again
3. Milking the Franchise

Trills Thu 20-Sep-12 08:38:04

To fill 3 films they would (IMO) have to have more "extra stuff" than actual "The Hobbit".

It's a children's book. Not a particularly long one. There's not 2 films worth of stuff in the book itself.

FrankelSaysRelax Thu 20-Sep-12 09:13:55

I think the reason it is being padded out is, much as with LOTR, they are filming stuff from various Appendixes to add to the back story.

It's been a very long time since I read The Hobbit, and I never managed LOTR, but there are plenty of sources to draw from for additional material.

Have you seen the production videos on YouTube? There are 8 now, each about 15 mins long. They're very informative and everyone looks to be having a blast!

BelfastBloke Thu 20-Sep-12 09:33:07

You're wrong, Trills. And that's something I rarely think.

BelfastBloke Thu 20-Sep-12 09:57:00

Remember that all 13 dwarves will have individual characters, some of them comedic, and that will take a fair amount of screen time. Also Radagast, Bard, and Tauriel will be established as somewhat important characters. And there are three named Goblins, who might get a bit of backstory.

Also remember any of these can be turned into long action sequences, in a movie. Battles especially.

Hobbit pt1: An Unexpected Journey
-party
-the trolls
-Rivendell
- Misty Mountains
- goblins
- finding The Ring
- Riddles in the Dark
- battle in GoblinTown and Killing the Great Goblin
- Gollum
- Wargs battle
- eagles,
- House of Radagast
- House of Beorn
- entering Mirkwood
- capture by giant spiders and rescue
- locked up by Wood-elves

Hobbit pt 2: The Desolation of Smaug
- elf-guard characterisation (love interest between Legolas and Tauriel?)
- escape by barrels
- The Company arrives at LakeTown and rest there for a while
- characterisation of the scheming Mayor
- characterisation of Bard as a major character including back story
- flashbacks to the Battle of Azanulzibar (Goblins v Thorin's ancestors)
- journey through Dale to the Lonely Mountain
- finding the secret door
- Bilbo's encounters with Smaug the Dragon.
- establishment of Radagast's character
- Radagast discovers the Nazgul have been released from tombs
- Gandalf investigates who the Necromancer is in Dol Guldur.
- Meetings of the White Council
- suspecting Saruman
- Battle of Dol Guldur
- Sauron flees to Mordor

Hobbit pt 3: There and Back Again
- Smaug attacks Lake Town
- Bard kills Smaug
- Bard becomes ruler after loads of political strife with the Mayor
-The hunt for the Arkenstone in Smaug's treasure
- elves and men make demands
- Dwarves fortify the mountain and send for reinforcements
- the dwarf army arrives, led by Dain Ironfoot
- Bilbo tries to use the Arkenstone to broker peace
- the Battle of Five Armies
- Beorn turns the tide
- Bilbo returns home via Rivendell.
- Sauron builds a new empire in Mordor

BelfastBloke Thu 20-Sep-12 21:05:20

Oh well...

Trills Thu 20-Sep-12 21:22:49

I don't remember all 13 dwarves having distinct personalities in the book...

BelfastBloke Thu 20-Sep-12 23:24:58

By that token: are you saying that, because the Hobbit was unconscious throughout the Battle of the Five Armies and it is therefore barely described in the book, the filmmakers should not film the battle?

Trills Fri 21-Sep-12 08:21:20

I am just repeating my assertion that to fill 3 films (or even 2) they'll need to have a lot of stuff that was not in the book.

OatyBeatie Fri 21-Sep-12 08:28:14

The charm of the book is that it is just the tiny visible tip of a massive hidden iceberg of myth and history, so that the ring is just a trinket, and the journey is lighthearted. If you drag the iceberg into view you lose the story that was written and get a different story, which loses what was characteristic of the book in the first place.

Skivvytomany Fri 21-Sep-12 08:35:00

Mmmmm aarogan and legolas. I think I need to watch lotr again just to remind myself of the storyline, honest it's got nothing to do with how gorgeous they are when they are dressed like that.
I'm looking forward to the hobbit but three parts, that's a long film. It's just reminded me of when we went to cinema to watch the first part and my HDTV went in a huff cos it never had a proper ending. He didn't know that it had three parts lol.

Skivvytomany Fri 21-Sep-12 08:36:00

Bloody autocorrect dh not hdtv

BelfastBloke Fri 21-Sep-12 13:10:29

You're right, Trillian. Good thing they do have lots of stuff that was not in the book, but was happening within the same timeframe as the events of the Hobbit.

I'm not saying it will work, I'm saying there's enough stuff that it could well work.

Obviously the studios want 3 films because of money, but there is enough stuff for three films to be justified artistically as well. How it's executed is another matter...

BelfastBloke Fri 14-Dec-12 08:13:56

Went to see the film last night.

Basically thought it was very good.

Trills is correct: "to fill 3 films (or even 2) they'll need to have a lot of stuff that was not in the book."

Most of this stuff - all based on Tolkien's 'The Quest of Erebor', 'Durin's Folk', and Appendices to LOTR - was executed excellently.

BelfastBloke Sat 15-Dec-12 10:02:18

I'm interested in this notion that the story is being 'stretched'.

Most people who haven't seen the film (and some reviewers who have) grumble that the filmmakers are putting in things which aren't in the novel, and are stretching the material.

It seems to me that it's a misconception based on the differences between novel and film.

When Tolkien writes, 'The Goblins chased the Dwarves and captured them', how much screen time should that chase take? Should it take the two seconds it takes to read that sentence? Or is it legitimately developed into a massive chase sequence - because we're watching an action film?

When Tolkien writes, "All the Dwarves grumbled and groaned, but eventually congratulated Bilbo", what does that mean? What do they actually say? And if the screenwriters are going to come up with things for them to say, isn't it better if each dwarf has his own character, so that what he says has some emotional heft (funny, sincere, etc)? Complaining that Tolkien never wrote Ori as a hippy, or whatever, is meaningless because he only sketched the personalities of a couple of the 13 dwarves, other than Thorin. But they have to have things to actually say.

When Tolkien doesn't really describe the Battle of the Five Armies, because Bilbo is knocked out, does that mean the filmmakers should not film the Battle? And if they do, how long should that battle take?

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