Recurrent Miscarriage Testing, trials and tribulations...Part 7!

(988 Posts)
squizita Fri 07-Jun-13 19:04:04

Hi all, carrying on from part 6. All kinicker-checkers, blood-testers, clinic-attenders and finger-crossers welcome. Nothing but love and crossed fingers...

Bakingtins Fri 07-Jun-13 19:13:17

Thanks Squiz!

donttrythisathome Fri 07-Jun-13 20:02:26

marking place..

orangebowl Sat 08-Jun-13 07:24:04

Hi everyone. Sorry to all those having a rubbish time these last few weeks. X

Bakingtins Sat 08-Jun-13 07:53:08

How is everyone? I went back to work yesterday and should have taken them up on the offer of a short day as I was knackered. Good to have something else to think about though, I don't think moping is helping.
I wanted to run a quick AIBU past you. I have 2 friends I've always confided in about the MCs, both have had 2 themselves. Friend 1 is local and has been great, has looked after DS2 a couple of times, been in contact every couple of days and I've seen her several times. Friend 2 is about half an hour drive away, I normally see her about once a month but talk more often. I emailed her when I had the first dodgy scan and got a reply, then not heard from her since. She was completely devastated by her own MCs which were about 5 yrs ago, she's had 2 children since, and she's normally a bit OTT if anything in terms of gifts, flowers etc. I know she has problems of her own but I'm really hurt that I've not even had a text to say am I ok? WIBU to make no effort to get in touch unless she does?

PicardyThird Sat 08-Jun-13 08:04:36

Hello, everyone.

Sorry you've had such a rough time, donttrythis. Hope camping goes well.

Squiz, fingers still crossed. And thanks for new thread smile

Baking, YANBU to feel hurt, absolutely not. Unfortunately this whole business has caused a rather complicated rift between me and a previously very dear friend - won't go into any details if that's OK - and I do understand the hurt and anger, as I have been dealing with a lot of similar feelings over recent weeks. I think I might update her briefly as to what has happened, though, and judge her by the response (or not) that follows. I really hope she comes through for you.

PicardyThird Sat 08-Jun-13 08:05:29

I meant 'I think if I were you I might update her [your friend]...' Sorry for being confusing!

squizita Sat 08-Jun-13 09:02:16

Baking yeah I would update her. Just in case something happened to her in the meantime causing her not to be herself - if someone had a pregnancy problem, bereavement etc' at that time they might not be able to reply upbeat that day. But if there's no reason that's a bit off really, a bit selfish of her to accept your help but not return it when you need support.

My boobs hurt. Making me paranoid even though my raw readings are going down. Been told there is nothing I can do, just keep sending in blood. Just having nightmares about chemo!

Bakingtins Sat 08-Jun-13 16:44:00

What happened at your last appointment, Squiz? I've lost track a bit of where you are up to.

xXjunebugXx Sat 08-Jun-13 17:48:21

Thanks for the heads up on this thread bakingtins smile

I have started bleeding today, I feel awful and just want to sleep this miscarriage away. I have taken strong co-codamol and am in bed whilst my husband is watching our 3 year old.

My miscarriage was diagnosed on Monday, my hcg count was low and it dropped again two days later but not by much. So I have been waiting for the bleeding since Monday, which has been a long few days. I'm surprised it has taken so long as my hcg was only 129.

But anyway, now waiting for my specialist/consultant appointment now. Hopefully it won't take too long. I have been reading about baby aspirin and so on and am tempted to try this on my own if an appointment doesn't come through in the next 2-3 months.

Bakingtins Sat 08-Jun-13 17:50:46

It's her birthday next week. I'm going to send card and pressie as planned and then see what happens. She has had a v hard time in this last year or so and I've felt like all the effort to keep the friendship going has been on my part for a while, but if I'm not even worth a text message to see if I'm ok and if my baby lived or died then I'm flogging a long dead horse.

Bakingtins Sat 08-Jun-13 18:51:11

Sorry June, Xposted. Hope the physical bit is over quickly for you. I found it was almost a relief after the limbo of knowing it was going wrong but not actually miscarrying.

xXjunebugXx Sat 08-Jun-13 19:30:48

I am definitely finding it a relief, I'm just glad it will be over soon. Limbo isn't a nice place.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LateBloomer414 Sat 08-Jun-13 21:49:55

can i join? i just came home from the hospital today - i started bleeding a week ago on Wednesday and, after a visit to the EPU, learned the baby wasn't growing. I was 11+4 at that point but the baby was only 3.3mm and the heartbeat was only 40bpm. I went back to work on Monday but thats when the bleeding really started in earnest. I went back this Wednesday for the scan to confirm that the pregnancy was well and truly over, and it was. We opted for the ERPC under general (my second) and scheduled it for next week. But that night the cramps started - it was unbearable, like nothing I'd ever felt. DH took me to the A&E that night and they gave me some drugs and were able to remove some of the clots and tissue then and there. They admitted me and did another scan the following day to confirm there was remaining tissue; they put me on the list for emergency surgery. I was feeling alright so i didn't mind that i was getting pushed down the queue for more urgent cases. But then the cramps came back on Friday morning and it was even worse. The drugs were not helping - they had me on a paracetamol drip, administered morphine orally and finally gave me something via injection. The contractions were so strong and painful - i was on all fours and making an awful racket with crying and moaning. One of the nurses stayed with me and rubbed my back for what seemed like hours. I kept asking for more drugs and i felt like she was the only real advocate I had (my DH was at work and I couldn't even turn my phone on to ring him). I think she was the one who requested the gas and air for me but it was like watching a bunch of clowns running around in a skit - no one knew how to hook the thing up. In the midst of my tears and contractions and passing the most gruesomely huge clots (sorry, tmi), I asked them to call someone from the labor and delivery ward to come up and figure out how to work the damn thing. Finally they got it set up and they managed to get me down for surgery. Luckily everything went smoothly from then on and my recovery - thus far - has gone smoothly. I'm not in pain anymore and the post-op bleeding has been fairly light thus far. The doctors at the hospital wrote the discharge note to my GP asking for a referral to the recurrent miscarriage clinic so I'll start that journey on Monday I suppose when I call the GP to make it happen.
I'm sorry to have poured it all out, I hadn't intended to...it was a bit cathartic to be honest. I've read through the thread and really appreciated reading about your experiences, it's really helped me feel less alone. DH has been wonderfully supportive but he's too optimistic if you know what I mean - he keeps saying we'll try again and we can't be sad. He's seen me melt down and knows I'm not quite there yet and I think he's trying to be the brave face for me. (He's also seen me in adult diapers so I think it might be some time till he can get that image out of his head so we can DTD.) I'm 39 and feel the clock ticking fast - we've only been married for just over a year and I'm feeling otherwise helpless in this journey. I hope the clinic will be helpful - it will at least give me some sense of being proactive about it.

Bakingtins Sat 08-Jun-13 22:54:36

hi Bloom. Sorry you've had such a traumatic experience, sounds like you have really been through the mill. Of course you are very welcome in the club nobody wants to join.

To add to what LF said, due to a slight Amazon cock up I will shortly have 2 copies of Coming to Term and happy to pass one on.

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts Sat 08-Jun-13 23:00:54

waves to LF smile

Thread 7!! I too was on the original thread and would like to offer my bedtime wishes to you all. i hope your journeys become less painful and you get some answers.

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts Sat 08-Jun-13 23:01:22

bedtime?? hmm best

squizita Sun 09-Jun-13 11:31:31

Junebug sorry to hear you're MCing. But at least the horrible wait is over. Yes, I am considering baby aspirin, vit B complex, vit D and vit C next time - on the basis they can't harm and might help.

Bloom sounds like you had a really, really tough one. sad I also have an optimistic DH. Although recently I explained to him that his optimism scares me because I feel pressurised that if it doesn't all work out he will freak out. He explained that of course he knows it might not, but the optimistic/practical thing is his way of taking comfort by making me feel better. I wonder if that's a common DH reaction?

Baking I had my 1st appointment at Charing X on Friday. They think I might have a partial molar although pathology had no molar cells, because I had a triplody (69 chromasome embryo) and my HCH is falling very slowly. So maybe there were just a few molar cells, or maybe I just have toboblastic problems anyway and the treatment's the same as Molar. I haven't got the fancy molar HCG count (which can tell all sorts of things more than a raw one) because it takes a working day so I'll get them Monday. However on 'crude' tests, since I had a bleed last week I have fallen 80 in 5 days, which is a good sign. So they are testing me weekly for 6 weeks on bloods. If it plateaus over 2 weeks I may need low-dose chemo, but keeping fingers crossed the tissue I lost last week (which I photoed and they said it didn't look like anything definite - I s'pose a good thing) was propping my HCG up and now it will fall. I'm doing my blood tests at the local hospital but TBH Charing X is close enough that if I get there 1st thing I could return in time for first lessons Wednesday at a pinch. And my paranoid self would know nothing lost in the post!!

xXjunebugXx Sun 09-Jun-13 14:52:05

Can I ask your honest opinion ladies. I am torn. Do I wait for my specialist appointment to come through or do I try again? Part of me is considering just trying right away with no period. My reason for this thought process is, after my mmc we waited one cycle then got pregnant, after the second loss we waited two cycles. So, because we never tried the not waiting before the logic is try it, it might work! Of course it may not, just like the others.
I am going to start taking omega 3 along with my normal Sanatogen prenatals and baby aspirin. Although I am unsure when to take the aspirin. Some doctors say when actually TTC and others say when you have your BFP.

But the other part of me is thinking, no wait. Wait and see if there is a problem and if I go a head with another pregnancy it could put tests behind by a few weeks. I just don't know. My heart wants the pregnancy but my head is torn.

Daisybell1 Sun 09-Jun-13 15:28:11

<marking place on new thread>

Baking I'm sorry your friend hasn't been more supportive, I hope you get some response from her soon.

Squizita I'm so sorry you're going through all this.

June I'm sorry you find yourself here, I'm afraid I can't advise on whether to wait or not. I started tests back in February, NHS buggered them up so didn't get any results before latest PG. I mc'd in April but consultant said there was nothing in the results they'd had back that could have been treated to prevent mc. I can understand the desperation to be pg again. I was the same after my 2nd. Now I can't even face dtd sad

Lunatic you have a pm

Hello to everyone else!

donttrythisathome Sun 09-Jun-13 17:25:42

Hello everyone
I'm back from camping. It was great to get away, although not great to be back to reality. I am due back in work tomorrow but want to jack it in and move to the country. I've had three opportnuities of maternity leave robbed from me now and find the thoughts of work stretching ahead without an end in sight hideous. I also felt sad looking at the groups of siblings playing on the campsite while my daughter played alone. Although I know she wouldn't be playing with a baby anyway.

Would it be unreasonable to stay off work more than one week after the erpc and infection. Am really allergic to the thought.

Baking, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Could you just tell her how you feel and see what she says? I'd find that hard I must admit but it does seem the most straightforward option. Have pmed you re book.

Junebug sorry to hear about mc. My consultant said to take the junior aspirin from when I got the BFP. I'm sorry I don't know your story. Is it in the back catalogue? I feel that there so often no reasons are found for mc that there's no point in waiting for results, but by nature I am very impatient. If time is on your side, then maybe it would be sensible to wait,

Latebloomer- your experience sounds very tough.
i'd also find it annoying to be told not to be sad, although optimistic is ok. I stil feel optimistic although I am devastated!

LateBloomer414 Sun 09-Jun-13 17:42:07

thanks, one and all, for the replies and the warm welcome to the club no one wants to join (baking that made me giggle). I am feeling ok today - my abdomen is a little tender though I may have overdone it by tidying the house before the onslaught of friends who came round today for an indoor picnic. It was lovely, a good pick-me-up. I feel as though this coming week might see me enter a new chapter of life which does not include maxi-pads, lucky me.

Squiz Your DH and mine should go have a pint - I suppose it is really hard for someone to not only watch their partner go through this physically traumatizing event, but also have to deal with the emotional upheaval as well. I guess someone has to be the strong one? It certainly has not been me over the past week and a half!

So, ladies, the question is: how soon to try again? Similar to Junebug I've been thinking about waiting for the appointment or not? My instinct is to not wait because, well, what's the point of waiting since conceiving seems like a crapshoot anyway. (It took us a few months after the last mc and ERPC to get the BFP). So, I think we'll try to do these things in parallel. it just seems more...efficient. God that sounds horrible in this context, doesn't it?

Daisybell1 Sun 09-Jun-13 19:30:37

Latebloomer, I'm so sorry for not saying hello. I'm really sorry for what you're going through, that sounds awful.

Don'ttry - my GP signed me off for a month without even seeing me. So I would say a week is nowhere near long enough.

And can I just say, and I really don't want to upset anyone here, but if I hear "well at least you know you can carry to term (dd is 20 months) I will f*cking punch someone! Her birth is currently outweighed 3 to 1 by mcs so being told "at least you know you can" doesn't help. Particularly being told that by someone who's 6 months pregnant (nor does it help when friend tries to allay my fears of not wanting to replicate my sister and me in my own family by saying "when I found out it was a boy, I panicked about having my brother but then I realised its ok". Well excuse me, but I haven't got near a 20 week scan so that's really not helpful".

Sorry, I think I have anger issues confused

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LateBloomer414 Sun 09-Jun-13 20:17:33

Daisy you do not have anger issues, I promise. All of these emotions are natural, or at least that's what I'm telling myself. I really believe there isn't anyone who has anything productive to say about the situation - even my sisters who have had mcs have put their foot in it. So embrace the hate because at least you can channel all the energy somewhere. Maybe don't punch anyone in the face though wink

PicardyThird Sun 09-Jun-13 20:17:53

Latebloomer, welcome to the CTNOWTJ (club that no one wants to join) and I'm sorry to hear of your dreadful experience. Welcome to you too, june.

I miscarried last month - no. 5 in total - and am not waiting to ttc. I do have a diagnosed potential cause and it's possible we were 'just' too late with the heparin or something last time, I suppose. Plus we waited after my mc last year, to get over it, for results of tests etc. and I don't want to lose all that time again.

I had planned to carry on taking the aspirin continuously, but then I read something which suggested it may make conceiving more difficult. So I have stopped it and will start again as soon as pg, whenever that is.

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts Sun 09-Jun-13 20:22:37

daisybell, you do not have anger issues. your emotions are totally normal. when you already have a child people seem to think that subsequent pgs/mcs aren't as important. like you should be grateful you have one and be done with. those were the people i hated the most. feel free to imagine punching them grin

xXjunebugXx Sun 09-Jun-13 20:34:59

It doesn't sound horrible latebloomer, it sounds practical. I think if I didn't just try and think of things in a practical sense I'd crack up. I completely get where you are coming from.

Daisybell1, totally with you! I hate that. I have been told a few times now that well at least you know you can get pregnant and you have a child so you can do it. Well yes, I did do it once....doesn't mean I can again, I haven't three times in a row now. And getting pregnant over and over at the drop of a freaking hat and losing them is just as bad (maybe) as not getting pregnant at all.

I found out last night that a friend is 18 weeks pregnant, she was moaning about feeling like crap. It took all my might not to burst into tears and honestly, I thought I was going to throw up.

Bakingtins Sun 09-Jun-13 20:40:28

LB a chapter of my life not including maxi pads made me giggle back, so we're quits hoping that chapter is soon for me, I bloody hate pads

Daisy you don't have anger issues, that's a normal response to the stupid things people say.

June we didn't wait last time, saw consultant pretty much immediately as we went private and had all the blood tests etc done within 6 weeks. Got pregnant after one period, though didn't use contraception first month. There was nothing in my results that affected what we did in that pregnancy. I think I would kick myself if there had been a positive result and I could have been doing something definite differently, then lost another pregnancy as a result, but you are quite likely to be in the 50% where nothing is found and then you feel like you have wasted time....dunno, tough one.
I'm going to wait this time because if last MC was not due to a chromosome problem I'm going to go see Prof Quenby and they insist you are not pregnant for their tests (uterine biopsy)
Haven't told DH he has to use condoms yet see above comment re maxipads it might make him feel like a teenager again!

LateBloomer414 Sun 09-Jun-13 20:55:09

i will say this - pads have come a LONG way since i was a teenager. I have been a tampon girl since probably 1988 or 89 so it was a bit of a delightful surprise to see what innovations have happened in the absorbent materials industry.

Obviously I am grasping at straws here to find the bright side in all of this grin

donttrythisathome Sun 09-Jun-13 21:03:56

TBH after being virtuous with my mooncup for years,a nice comfortable maxipad, with wings no less, was like slipping into a nice pair of slippers.

I don't think anyone could say the right things to me. An innocuous "I'm sorry" matched with a wincy face makes me want to run away screaming, not to mind if anything vaguely insensitive was uttered.

LateBloomer414 Sun 09-Jun-13 21:12:37

Don't I absolutely agree. The only pad worthy enough for my knickers comes with a set of wings.

aMuminwaiting Sun 09-Jun-13 22:05:45

Hi everyone. I share your anger Daisybell1. I have never gone full term but get "oh well at least you can get pregnant" or "at least you know you can get to the second term". Yeah, not helpful though really is it?!

I've been spotting again for the past few days. Pain in my uterus, sex is really painful which makes trying pretty stressful. I've been banging my head against a brick wall with doctors and hospitals for three years now. Benenden said they could help me and then I joined and now apparently they can only help me if I need IVF which I don't. I've been looking up hysteroscopy and wondering if any of you have had it? I'd like the polyps removed as they seem to be getting much bigger and bleeding more. If/ when I get pregnant again I don't think them bleeding will help my already very fragile nerves! I'd also really like everything checked out down there. I've seen how much the procedure costs the nhs so I'm not surprised it's not been mentioned before. Anyone had it on the nhs or paid for it privately? Any information would be really appreciated.

Daisybell1 Sun 09-Jun-13 22:46:56

I'm sorry Mum, I don't have any answers, just wanted to send sympathy.

Late Bloomer - for me, I tended to find the bright side lurking at the bottom of a bucket of wine....sorry, am facetious rather than angry wink

PicardyThird Sun 09-Jun-13 23:15:56

The one I struggle with most atm is the well-meant 'Be grateful for what you have'. As if I weren't! What it really means is 'your pain is making me uncomfortable and I want you to be your usual smily self pronto'.

Once last mc and once this, people I told what had happened burst into tears and I ended up comforting them confused The first time it happened - it was all a bit awkward, I am a shortarse and she was gigantic by comparison so I was reaching up to try and hug her - I asked her, feeling quite sympathetic, 'have you had a bad experience?' and she said 'no, it's just sooooo saaaad <wail>'. At that point I thought, hang on a minute, something's the wrong way round here hmm.

PicardyThird Mon 10-Jun-13 08:22:21

Morning all.
Think my period's here. Looks like my cycle hasn't missed a beat (it's day 28 since the ERPC). Mixed feelings. Mainly trying not to think about it.

squizita Mon 10-Jun-13 09:25:28

Latebloomer - you are so right when you say "I really believe there isn't anyone who has anything productive to say about the situation - even my sisters who have had mcs have put their foot in it." ... it is totally normal but (and I know I am putting my foot in it here) we have to understand it's part of our suffering and a crap thing about MC. The other person maybe saying something stupidly hurtful, or truthful and we don't want to hear it (people don't dare say 'what if you can't have kids' to me- but it's a statistical probability), or something that has helped others with recurrent MC, but not us ("my cousin had a stitch then a kid" - well I'm an early MCer, that's not helpful). They might even have been through it themselves. I am going to be very honest here with the flipside of the hurtful "well at least you have kids" comment and say that when friends who have a big brood say to me they had a MC after their 1st 2 DCs, so know exactly how I feel, I have to force a smile. Because the plain fact is I might never have kids - any kids - if this isn't sorted. But equally I would never say "I don't think you have the terror of being barren and alone forever" because that's one step away from "at least you have a kid". And for me, it hurts deeply that I am never allowed to mention this fear because it's 'not something you say' and might upset others.

And what comforts one person can make another terribly angry. I don't think even if people were psychic and/or always said the 'right things' from the booklets the anger would go away.

...and there's nothing wrong with being practical. If we weren't practical we'd go crazy (although some places - online and in the media - it's like MC is a purely emotional process and sadness is the only symptom. Not bleeding like a stuck pig or mood swings or fricken rare weirdo cancer stuff in my case). On some (dare I say American mostly) sites there's almost a cult of anger and emotion - I am very wary of my online browsing now... any site where it is suggested that pregnant women have itchy bumps or piles 'on purpose' and should be neither complaining nor too happy, and that it's OK to be a b*tch 24-7 without any self reflection that this is part of a mourning process (anger is very much part of mourning) I now dodge away from quickly!

squizita Mon 10-Jun-13 09:45:17

...I am v moody today because I have to wait till 3pm for my 1st bloods from Charing X. They could be good, they could be bad... WHO KNOWS. Just keep reciting to myself "no one dies, 80% don't need chemo, fertility unaffected, worst case scenario is menopause a couple of years early at 49 and I'm in my 30s..." grin

donttrythisathome Mon 10-Jun-13 10:57:14

Good luck with the bloods squiz. I hesitate to ask, but what is the worst case scenario from the test results? I agree no-one can say the right thing. For me, rmcs before I had a child would have been a very different experience to experiencing them after having a child. And I know others burn for multiple children, but while I do really want another child, I feel I will probably be ok if it doesn't work out as I already have a child. But maybe this is only because I still have hope.

Picardy, what are your mixed feelings? Were you TTC- sorry I am trying to read the back catalogue but I keep missing bits.

I've decided to take time off work. Feel guilty,which is stupid.

donttrythisathome Mon 10-Jun-13 11:00:17

And squiz I totally think you can mention your fears of childlessness to people if you want to. It's like the elephant in the room no-one mentions otherwise isn't it?

PicardyThird Mon 10-Jun-13 12:09:58

donttrythis - yes, we cracked straight on once the bleeding stopped. So a bit disappointed about that (I conceived mc no. 3 without a period after mc no. 2, so I have that as precedent, so to speak, albeit not a happy one), glad it's come quickly if it was going to come, not really wanting the whole cycle of period and ttc to start up again.

I was surprised to have it back so quickly, but it's happened before - after the ERPC previous to this one it took only 3.5 weeks and I found that oddly upsetting as it was such a shock.

Don't feel guilty re taking time off. You need to take care of yourself.

Squiz, really thoughtful posts, will write more when I have proper time. Holding your hand for this pm.

donttrythisathome Mon 10-Jun-13 13:45:48

Picardy, I want to crack on as well. I know I will have mixed feelings too if/when my period comes. As you say, good and bad that things are back to normal.

squizita Mon 10-Jun-13 14:50:19

Donttrythis worst case is: hcg is massively high so they bring me in for gentle chemo, and a few weeks on it fails to respond to gentle chemo, I have to have aggressive chemo. I hit the menopause 2-3 years earlier than I would otherwise and have to take a year out from TTC. So i would start again at age 36. As there is no history of early menopause either side of my family, I was assured this leaves a 4 year window in which 'the vast majority' of women are able to have a child. bit of course with my repeat MC I am scared. sad However, this only happens to a tiny number of women with my condition. Most just have blood tests every week till the body fights it off, or 6 weeks of milk chemo injections (which make you feel rough but do no longtime damage). Then you wait 4-12 months (depending on what they day) to TTC.

Picardy thanks for your kind wishes. Fingers massively crossed.

I have been telling off ahem delightful children for various misdemeanors all day, I suppose it's a good day for that as I wasn't jolly anyway - lucky I was in the right mood for it with all the stress. (My icy "do I look like this is funny young man!?! *DO I?*" face has been perfect). grin Would have felt guilty if it had been bunnies-and-lentil-weaving-club with some sweet fluffy kids and I was all 'grrr' for them!

xXjunebugXx Mon 10-Jun-13 15:22:44

I really hope it is good news today Squiz FC for you x

squizita Mon 10-Jun-13 15:32:36

Right, so my proper 'serum' HCG count on Friday was 265, lower than the crude count. I hope that means it's on the way down...

I KNOW it's on the way down compared to the 28th May (380) and the 3rd June (340) ... fingers crossed.

Ah well, half the time I wanted my HCG to get higher, and now I need it to get to 0 to get the all clear. Funny old world!!

xXjunebugXx Mon 10-Jun-13 16:09:02

Squiz, I don't properly know your story, did they think it could be a molar pregnancy?

squizita Mon 10-Jun-13 16:42:30

I've got a suspected partial molar tophoblastic condition, picked up via bloods alone because the pathology has come up (even at charing x) as non-molar, however I do have a 69 triplody. Therefore they are treating as partial molar.

Took a lot of puzzled doctors a few weeks to figure out what to do as I am an unusual case within an unusual case!

donttrythisathome Mon 10-Jun-13 17:56:54

Thanks squiz, hope that wasn't painful to explain. And hooray for the good news! I think it was good news anyway.

squizita Mon 10-Jun-13 20:01:26

Yep, any move down is good news! smile

teaandchocolate Mon 10-Jun-13 20:07:56

Hello everyone!

Just a quick one to say hi and mark my place on the new thread.

Seems like so much has happened in these last few days - I've only been away since Friday but so much to catch up on!

Welcome to junebug and latebloomer and so sorry for your crappy experiences. I know you'll find loads of support and advice here but it is rubbish that we are all here!!

I just can't believe its a new thread and I'm still not sat here with a huge bump...but mustn't dwell.... !

Squiz I hope everything resolves itself for you soon and that your levels start to fall quickly and there's no need for any treatment. It must be so scary for you. I completely agree with what you said. It is definitely worse (not that its a competition) going through rmc when you have no children and I completely appreciate how awful it is contemplating never being a mother. My 1st mc was before DD and was probably worse that these last 2 as I now have her and know how lucky I am. Now I worry more that she will be forever sad that she's an only child.

Hi to Baking, Picardy and dontrythisathome.

I had a lovely weekend although was strange as DHs family don't know I'm pregnant although I'm sure they guessed as I didn't drink and was so tired. I felt quite sick as well but not sure if they noticed. Being away seemed to help with my insomnia although it will probably return tonight! Scan on Wednesday so already worrying!!

Anyway I'm going to go and have an early night but will catch up properly on everyone's news.

orangebowl Mon 10-Jun-13 20:07:58

Squiz, baking, tea and all others- just wanted to say I am still following the thread and thinking about you all.

Update from me is that I have my whooping cough vaccination tomorrow. Xx

butterfly86 Mon 10-Jun-13 21:43:27

Hi to everyone regulars and newbies! Just marking my place I will catch up properly soon, it would be a pretty boring post for you to read as nothing much ti report but I like to keep up with how everyone is doing and keep in with the crowd for when it's my turn again...gulp! Xx

xXjunebugXx Tue 11-Jun-13 00:43:52

Thanks for the welcome teaandchocolate smile I worry like you, about my son being an only child. He is four in a few months

God Squiz, that sounds awful. Glad your levels are going down though and that, that is good news? When will you know if you do need chemo?

I have been a bit ill today, not sure if it is miscarriage related or not but I have had a bad tummy upset, could be my hormones but not sure. My bleeding with this miscarriage has been weird, you read that it's just like a heavier period but it hasn't been hugely heavy. It's really thick blood, it was dark red almost black to begin with but now is light red and like wall paper paste, sorry far too much info but it just seems odd to me. I feel like maybe I'm not clearing out well. I'm concerned that this may be why I keep losing babies. But obviously it might not be that. I just hate the not knowing.

xx

xXjunebugXx Tue 11-Jun-13 00:58:39

Sorry Squiz typo there 'and that' doesn't make sense. That's what happens when you leave the computer half way through a message and you don't read it back when you carry on!

PicardyThird Tue 11-Jun-13 06:37:55

Hello tea. Your symptoms sound hopeful smile (although I know how annoying it can be to be told that - ykwim).

june. are you being monitored wrt hcg levels etc.? Have you had a scan? (You've prob said this but I am too fuzzy-headed to look back at the other thread now - have periodic instances of pain at the base of my head and have one atm. Neuro appt soon to have a look at it, gulp). I think bleeding after mc can take so many different forms - one that I've always found fairly disturbing for some reason is quite light bleeding which is a very light red - but it seems to be normal after mc for me.

squiz - on your posts - I honestly can't imagine what it must be like for you and am full of admiration at your bravery and tenacity for keeping going. I think you should feel OK to mention your fears if you want to. My take on this is that people who make comments need to be able to deal with our responses to them. I do understand the difficulty of keeping your composure when someone who has had one mc plus various children says they know what it's like - of course not from your particularly difficult perspective, but from my own awareness that having had 5 mcs is a completely different kettle of fish from having had one.

I do think you make a really wise point that dealing with others' crappy comments is part of our suffering (as if it wasn't enough, eh? sad ) - as is dealing with medics' language around mc, for example. I've personally found it quite a challenge recently to give my pain the right amount of room in my life - not denying it and pushing it away as I know some people assume I'll be able to do or expect me to do, but not allowing it to overshadow everything as on some of those American sites.

Bakingtins Tue 11-Jun-13 07:55:16

It's quite a challenge to give pain the right amount of room in your life, not denying it or pushing it away, but not allowing it to overshadow everything ( sorry for paraphrasing can't C&P on iPad) Very wise words.

Squiz glad things are heading in the right direction. I agree with Picardy that people who comment need to be told the truth, or they will be equally thoughtless with the next person.

June I have always had some of the wallpaper paste and lochia after childbirth was largely like that too, must be something to do with womb lining in pregnancy. I don't think it's a sign that anything is wrong. If you feel you are not clearing out well that might be a reason to wait for one period before TTC. I've found that first AF is never normal and I'm happier after that one that things have had chance to settle. I liked the bit in the poem someone posted recently about sweeping the hearth and relaying the fire, an optimistic way of looking at it.

News for me is I have my results and what to do next Appt on July 4th so not too long to wait.

LateBloomer414 Tue 11-Jun-13 10:14:05

happy tuesday everyone. I'm still planted on the sofa but I did get around the house bit yesterday tidying. A friend came around last night for supper with a bottle of wine - it helped wine.

I rang my GP this morning to schedule a follow up for next week and to ask if the discharge notes from my hospital stay were received as there was a request for referral to an RMC. Reception really was clueless - didn't have any idea of when the letter would be received, said everything was on back log, etc. The poor guy, he doesn't know I will be calling back with alarming regularity. Anyway, I have downgraded from the maxi to the mini bad so am feeling a sense of smug progress.

Squiz I really hope things progress in a good way and I echo what others have said about your tenacity for keeping going.

Hope everyone else is getting on ok, sending all very best wishes.

xXjunebugXx Tue 11-Jun-13 13:30:15

I am going to wait for tests this time. I waited one period after my first loss and two after my second. Thing is a always had blood in my fertile mucous when ovulating after both losses, not just when the egg ws released but all the time. I don't know if that is normal or not but have read that other women have had it too. That was a new thing after the losses as before I never ever had blood in my EWCM.

xXjunebugXx Tue 11-Jun-13 13:33:47

Also, no I haven't had a follow up at all. I had my levels tested twice and they were low and falling so the GP was happy and just told me to go to the EPAU this week. It's closed today so will go tomorrow. Very much doubt they will scan me as this loss was so early.

squizita Wed 12-Jun-13 11:29:22

Oh dear late and junebug shame you can't get answers from your medics. I used to think 'follow up- whatever' but thanks to my recent tribulations I am now a bit obsessed with follow up!

Had my 2nd blood test (local hospital - get results Friday) today. Nurse at local hospital lovely but not the gentlest, it was like she was skewering some chicken for the BBQ. [laugh] Fingers crossed my blood is playing nice and returning to normal.

Bakingtins Wed 12-Jun-13 11:57:45

Squiz you must be pretty sick of "follow up" by now. I hope you get lower results on Friday.
I've hit sad today. I think now the physical bit is all over with (seen the back of the maxi pads - hurrah) I'm just gutted that this didn't work out for us again, and I'm losing any hope that it ever will.
We've decided we will both go to the RMC appointment (quite something for DH to decide he's coming, he normally avoids this stuff) and see what the consultant has to say, then we need to have the Big Talk about what to do next. I know there is the whole avenue of reproductive immunology open to us, but I'm not convinced if it's right or fair for our family to go there. There will always be another test we could do, another specialist we could see, another time we can "try again", when do you call it a day? I suppose a lot may depend on whether this baby had a chromosome problem or whether it is me killing them off. I'm not sure what I'll do if we get "insufficient material to test" or "inconclusive results".

squizita Wed 12-Jun-13 12:35:18

Oh Baking I know what you mean about the sad. I've hit it too. I just think I'm cursed and it doesn't matter what the 70% of women are, I will always be in the failure group.

They told me not to cancel my St Mary's appointment. I almost don't want to go.

I hope the meeting brings you more hope and a decisive way forward.

As for my follow up... rather that than a week in hospital grin and horrid medication for 3 months.

xXjunebugXx Wed 12-Jun-13 15:30:08

I hope it has come down again Squiz, FC x

Bakingtins, when do you get the results for chromosome problems?

Bakingtins Wed 12-Jun-13 15:34:13

They said about a month, so hopefully at appt July 4th.

teaandchocolate Wed 12-Jun-13 18:58:49

Baking & Squiz so sorry you're both feeling really sad. Completely to be expected. I think the process really goes in waves and there's so much practical stuff to sort out that often the extreme sadness doesn't hit til later. I think we'll always be sad for everything that's happened. It gets easier to cope with in some ways but then the stress and anxiety of ttc starts again!

June I've never had blood in ewcm either but any breakthrough/mid cycle bleeding should be looked at if its not normal for you. Could be hormonal?

LateBloomer hope you get sorted with your referrals. It's so frustrating and I've found it's never easy getting sorted out.

News from me is I had my scan today and all was fine! Measured 7.3 weeks which fits in exactly with when I think I ovulated and heartbeat was there. Feeling very relieved and now just need to cross everything and try to stay calm til next scan in 2 weeks. My 1st mc was after I'd had a good scan at 7.5weeks so I definitely can't relax yet. But am so pleased there was something there!!

Hello to everyone else too!

xXjunebugXx Wed 12-Jun-13 19:16:50

I just don't know what to think. My EWCM has been red tinged since my miscarriages. It was clear and normal before. I wonder if I am not clearing out properly. Would it count as mid cycle bleeding if I am definitely ovulating? I mean I know I am as I get pregnancy first time every time I try. It's difficult to google too as it says blood in your EWCM is a great sign of fertility and a good indication that you have ovulated. Thing is I have it from the moment I am entering my fertile phase.
My GP did run some tests and my hormones came back fine. God I hate this not knowing sad

That is great news about your scan, FC everything is perfect next time too xxx

orangebowl Wed 12-Jun-13 19:44:08

Tea that's fantastic news! Still holding your breath I'm sure but a little exhale after that scan!

When is your next scan? Are you taking aspirin?

Xx

donttrythisathome Wed 12-Jun-13 19:45:10

Great news re the scan tea. Such a happy relieved moment to see a heartbeat.

Baking and squiz, sorry to hear you are sad. It is completely normal of course. Baking, that is quick for the results-I was told 8 weeks. The swines!

Latebloomer, glad to hear you're on the minis now! I have stopped bleeding so impatiently waiting for ovulation.

Junebug, how frustrating about the blood. But if hormones are normal then at least that is one thing. Maybe it is just some residual build up of blood.

My friend recommended some mushrooms to me. We laughed as years ago she was taking different more recreational mushrooms, and now look at us all. She tested positive for ANA, and apparently there are some mushrooms you can take for immune problems. I am hesitating about them at the moment. I don't want to start grabbing desperately at everything. So far I am rattling with vits and minerals, including 10 folic acid tabs! I have a GP appointment on Fri and still don't know who to ask for a referral to.

Also am on a week off work, which is helping. Put an offer on a house today, which is definitely taking my mind off things. Although I was thinking about baby names today- I am leaving my last chosen name to the last mc,as it's all I could give her/him.

Bakingtins Wed 12-Jun-13 19:54:27

Tea that's great news! Hope it all continues to go well.

Don'ttry I'd be v dubious about mushrooms but can understand the feeling of wanting to try anything. Not everything natural is safe.

xXjunebugXx Wed 12-Jun-13 22:03:24

Hmmmm, so I have spent the evening researching mid cycle bleeding and I actually think there is a chance that I have low oestrogen. I took part in the clearblue trials for the new advanced ovulation tests, I was meant to do it for two months but got pregnant the first time, miscarried then used them again and well I have miscarried again, not once did I get a flashing smile. I always got the absolute positive. The flashing smile meant that a peak in oestrogen was detected but it never was with me. I have been googling and apparently low oestrogen can lead to to miscarriage. I am going to push for a CD21 test to see what's happening.

What do you think? Does this sound like it's an option for a reason for the miscarriages?

donttrythisathome Wed 12-Jun-13 23:09:04

That's interesting Junebug. I don't know about it, but all the hormones must be in balance, so I guess low oestrogen would affect the progesterone too. Good idea to check it out.

PicardyThird Thu 13-Jun-13 13:38:54

great news, tea. Everything crossed for it to continue.

June, I don't know much about low oestrogen but I would definitely get any mid-cycle bleeding of any sort checked out, just to rule out sinister stuff.

Donttry, i would prob avoid the mushrooms - I am a hard-nosed sceptic though.

PicardyThird Thu 13-Jun-13 13:39:26

(Sorry all for being a bit brief. Busy and also quite sad. Yesterday anniversary of ERPC for mc no. 4. And look where I am now)

xXjunebugXx Thu 13-Jun-13 14:49:47

I'm definitely going to push my GP on it and it will obviously be a subject I will discuss when I see the specialist. I think the GP will say it is my body trying to return to normal after the miscarriages, which might be true but when they ran tests everything was normal. Not sure if it would be worth asking for a blood test when it's happening or if the day 21 tests would pick it up.

Bakingtins Thu 13-Jun-13 15:25:39

(((Picardy))) sorry you are having a tough day. It must be getting to the point for all of us where there is always an anniversary or EDDround the corner. It's rubbish to be a year on and no further forward.

June - I thought oestrogen dropped v rapidly once you'd ovulated. Should there be any significant amount around by day 21?

Saw a friend at swimming today who has a daughter same age as my DS2. She announced her second pregnancy as we started trying for no 3, that baby is now 18m and she's due again in October (due date of MC3). I like her and everything, but how is it fair that she's managed 2 babies in the time we've been trying for one? She's my age as well, not a 20 yr old popping them out.

xXjunebugXx Thu 13-Jun-13 16:42:15

Bakingtins, I feel like this about a few friends, almost thinking they are greedy or something :/ Some people have all the luck. I just can't help but cry it's not fair, I'm a good Mum, a good person but this keeps happening. there is no rhyme or reason to it. If there was certain wouldn't be having babies......sorry to go there, I'm bitter.

xXjunebugXx Thu 13-Jun-13 16:44:24

Ignore my typo's....

PicardyThird Thu 13-Jun-13 19:59:45

Hugs to all. And thank you.

Baking, encounters like that are so hard.

donttrythisathome Thu 13-Jun-13 20:09:13

I'd find it hard if people around me were going on to their third pregnancy, before I'd even managed a second. Even though I don't want a third child confused

squizita Fri 14-Jun-13 08:00:54

Yeah it's so difficult. Especially when you know it's irrational to be bitter about someone doing exactly what we would be choosing to do if our medical woes were sorted out, and they're nice women.

What makes me feel utterly crushed is awful parents who have LOADS of kids. Seriously sometimes I meet them at work and the openly don't even like their own kids. sad Yet they have 6 for want of a condom and here I am having blood tests and goodness knows what. I wouldn't even describe it as jealousy it's a very weird feeling: I feel angry and SO sorry for those kids thinking if they had been born to a woman who has had to fight for it (whether MC or IVF or whatever), or even a really fertile but loving woman, that would be fairer for everyone involved. Hell, the miserable uncaring mum would probably prefer it too. But it's like an unfairness lottery where everyone seems to lose.

Bakingtins Fri 14-Jun-13 13:52:13

I agree, Squiz. There are a few families with hordes of uncared for kids at my son's school. The woman I mentioned isn't like that at all, and has no idea we've been trying and failing, she was just getting me up to speed with her news. She'd be mortified if she realised how much the news could hurt. I suppose it just brings it home how much other families have moved on in the time we've been trying.
I'm actually at a point where I've started looking again at adoption. We considered fostering a while ago (before deciding to try for no 3) and ended up rejecting the idea as I didn't want to entirely give up work to do it, and I think I'd really struggle to see kids passed around, and also worried about the impact on my own family of transient children. Foster parents seem to be a pawn in the system and not always able to advocate for the best outcome for the children. The irony is whilst we are seeking help for miscarriage and for about 6 months afterwards we wouldn't even be considered as potential adopters, so if we decided to go down that route we'd be giving up on my last possible fertile years and with no guarantee we'd be accepted.
We need to wait and see what our RMC appt brings and then make big decisions.

donttrythisathome Fri 14-Jun-13 17:04:20

How is everyone?
I've been to the GP today, so he filled out a referral form for Mr Shehata (as I have autoimmune condition I heard he is good), and agreed to book me in for various tests as recommended by Bakingtins e.g. TORCH swab and various blood tests. Also getting smear and Vit D, Vit B12 and folic acid checked.

I have a question please. I started to bleed a few days after ERPC, but it stopped at the beginning of this week. Now I see fresh red blood again. I'm sure they told me at the day surgery that if bleeding started again I should take action. But I can't remember...
Does anyone know (Dr Google hasn't helped so far!).

teaandchocolate Fri 14-Jun-13 18:13:51

Hi Donttry. That's so good that you're doctors being helpful. It must feel like you're at least doing something positive now.

I had the same thing after my last erpc. I rang the hospital and they basically said that as long as the bleeding was super heavy and there were no other signs of infection it was fine. They checked back on me 3 days later and it had died down again. Hope that helps. As long as its not excessive and there's no pain/bad smell etc should be ok.

Sorry I've not been on here as much recently. Been feeling pretty awful and doesn't seem appropriate to moan here. Been very nauseous all week and also did my back in so was in agony and could barely move. Back much better now but still feel sick. Had bad sickness with my 2nd mc so can't even get excited about this but I know how jealous I was 2 months ago of a friend with morning sickness so don't want to go on about it here!!

Other than that I'm just obsessing about no hb at next scan. Even dreaming about it.

I totally agree how frustrating it is when other people seem to pop babies out without a fuss. I just hope we can all look back at this rubbish time one day and feel that there was some purpose to it all. After my first mc I rationalised it once I'd had DD by thinking that without the mc I wouldn't have DD. it also made me much more grateful and appreciative of all the good things. However that all gets much harder to do after 3 mc. Now I just think I've learnt all my lessons, its made me stronger, I just want some good luck now!!!

teaandchocolate Fri 14-Jun-13 18:14:53

Sorry I obviously meant to say as long as the bleeding wasnt super heavy

xXjunebugXx Fri 14-Jun-13 18:36:29

My GP has told me that the day 21 tests, test for progesterone and E2 (oestrogen). So we shall see. I have a note book that I am writing questions in for the specialist. Knowledge is power!!

I spoke with my GP yesterday as the bleeding had stopped but out of nowhere just started again, dripping from me with clots. I am still having bad cramps and my backache is awful. He is concerned about retained products so has told me to go to the EPAU on Monday if I am still in pain or bleeding. I said I was testing negative but apparently that doesn't mean anything, apparently you can still get pregnant with retained products but you'll miscarry.....which made me think more about my losses as I was never scanned with my first two losses. Wish he didn't say that. He said women can test negative and go months with no symptoms of retained products. Also, he said all this when I mentioned the mid cycle bleeding. Since my first miscarriage I have had my period, then a few days later I bleed for around 5 days with my fertile cm. And my ovulation pain is a lot worse, like really bad and it lasts for days up to a week. This isn't normal?

Anyway, I'm completely waffling now. I hope you are all well today ladies smile xx

xXjunebugXx Fri 14-Jun-13 18:40:49

Donttry, I would get checked out hun, best to be safe.

tea, when is your next scan? I can imagine it is very stressful, all that worry right now. the not knowing is just horrible.

donttrythisathome Fri 14-Jun-13 20:31:04

Thanks tea and june. I think they should scan you after a mc/ERPC routinely to make sure there's nothing retained! Is it possible to demand one? It's a pain that its the weekend and I said I'd be back in work on Monday. I guess if still bleeding then I should ring GP/EPU.

Tea, it's not inappropriate at all to be on here moaning about pregnancy symptoms. Please don't feel you have to hold back. I was moaning about my symptoms in the last pregnancy, even though I was very glad to have them after the last two mcs, the fact is pregnancy symptoms can just be awful and wipe you out. The only good thing about not being pregnant now is how energetic and non bloated I feel, well relatively speaking.

June - are you getting the day 2 tests as well? I am , although can't remember exactly what they are for (are LH and FSH). Sorry to hear you are having a rough time. Come to think of it I did have a terrible cramp last night for a while too, but short lived. Is horrible. Interesting you can test negative with retained products - so surprising!

squizita Sat 15-Jun-13 10:22:33

Donttrythis yep see your doc. I've been scanned and tested to kingdom come, due to the partial mole. Nothing seen (by several 'national experts', so confident they knew their job). Bleeding last week - suddenly some placenta-ish clots what was very clearly a tiny part of a sac popped out in the work toilets (hmm in the club no one wants to join, you know what 'products' look like as well as a gynie doc). It must have been lying there ever so flat in between my normal endometrial lining and been missed, and was slowing my HCG fall. Thankfully no infection - and once it shifted my HCG had another sudden fall (340 Mon 3rd, bled from Tues, 265 Friday 7th, 108 Weds 12th) so I guess that bit of was causing the lag.

Heavy bleeding and infection are dangerous and might warrant medical intervention BUT in my case, the bleeding was my body flushing out a little bit the ERPC missed I think - and thankfully pushing those pesky bloods back towards the safe amount. Hope yours is as simple but definitely go see someone for peace of mind.

squizita Sat 15-Jun-13 10:24:20

PS. I whooped down the phone when I heard 108. I was like "180, 118, 108?" and she was like "ONE O EIGHT" and I went "woop woop!" grin C'mon little uterus, you can do it!! Keep chugging away! We need you normal by August so Prof Regan can check you out.

Bakingtins Sat 15-Jun-13 17:13:47

grin at you whooping at a HCG level (particularly a low one) but good news all the same!

xXjunebugXx Sat 15-Jun-13 17:17:19

108, yay! Pleased for you Squiz smile

butterfly86 Sat 15-Jun-13 22:25:54

Hi great news about your scan tea! Fingers crossed for the next one it must have been great to see a little heartbeat smile

Junebug since my last mc I have had mid cycle bleeding every month around ovulation last month it lasted for 5 days then when I got actual af if that's what I can call it it was really light almost just like spotting. I'm waiting to see if it happens this month if it does I'm going to get checked have a smear or an examination just to put my mind at rest but it's more than likely hormonal. Because I often spot before af I've demanded a progesterone test they tried to fob me off but I persisted, I used cb digi ov tests last month but didn't get a positive so I'm trying again this month so I can time the blood test. Seems so strange to be using ov tests and condoms at the same time! Def get it checked. though doesn't harm to rule another thing out.

Sending love to everyone else hope you are all doing ok x

LateBloomer414 Sat 15-Jun-13 23:07:38

Hoping everyone is well, I'm sorry for the radio silence over the past few days. I am feeling good but we've now got bigger fish to fry: DH was diagnosed with squamous cell cancer of the neck and tonsils. It's stunningly unfair news and I'm mot coping with it. Surgery is scheduled for early July and we have a load of appointments between now and then. His health comes first and that will have to be the primary focus. But I wonder if we can continue to try? I don't know, it feels like such a small thing, an unimportant thing. But it's what we both wanted so I wonder if it could be a positive thing to focus on while dealing with the cancer ? Suppose we'll have to see what the docs say.

butterfly86 Sat 15-Jun-13 23:27:25

God latebloomer so sorry about your dh that's awful sad deciding wether to try is a big decision to make but only you know what is right, I think you probably have to decide how you will cope if you are pregnant while he is. going through all of that, on the other hand would you be able to deal with not ttc for potentially quite a while it's so hard when you want something so badly. So sorry that you have all of these awful things going on at the same time. Thinking of you and your dh x

Bakingtins Sun 16-Jun-13 08:25:39

LB I'm so sorry to hear about your DH. It is quite stunningly unfair that you should have to deal with his illness on top of everything else. I think you should talk to his doctors about whether this affects you TTC from a physical point of view (is he likely to need any chemo? do you need to be thinking about banking some sperm?) and to each other about how it's going to affect you emotionally. What is the likely timescale for him having treatment? Could you cope with a stressful pregnancy or (god forbid) another miscarriage whilst he is also going through so much?
I'm just so sorry, you shouldn't have to be making those sorts of decisions. Hope you are both getting lots of support IRL.

squizita Sun 16-Jun-13 11:32:58

Latebloomer How awful for you. sad With regards to trying again - if you feel it is best - a friend of ours had Hodgkins Lymphoma (conceived pre-chemo and banked sperm) and he has 2 kids now. So have a discussion with the doc about it, however as Baking mentions, it might be very stressful if you both ended up needing treatment at the same time when you were pregnant. Perhaps they have a counsellor who can advise?

teaandchocolate Sun 16-Jun-13 11:58:00

Oh Latebloomer I'm so sorry to hear that. You poor thing. It never rains but it pours does it...I hope you and your DH are doing ok. How is he feeling? What have the doctors said re treatment and time frames?

I agree with what everyone else has said about trying again. Maybe take some time to gather information from the professionals and then you & DH work through every possible scenario and see how you would feel in each situation. I know you've said before that you're age is a factor and so you feel the pressure to get on with it. In a way age is a positive factor in rmc as the chances of random chromosomal abnormalities increases with age. So hopefully you have just been unlucky and a 'good egg' will soon stick. However as everyone else said you have to be prepared for it to go wrong again. But maybe having bigger fish to fry will help you deal with the thought of another mc?

In general I always think you may regret not trying more than you'll regret trying. However last year I physically couldn't have kept trying without a break/tests and was getting physical symptoms of stress as a result.

Good luck with everything. Keep chatting to us and let us know how you both get on.

donttrythisathome Sun 16-Jun-13 13:07:53

Latebloomer, what a shock! I am so sorry to hear about this. I can't really add anything to the advice you've been given. How is he feeling? I don't think you shlould feel bad about still thinking of TTC. Of course your Dh's health is paramount, but definitely see what the doctor says about TTC. I'd be surprised if the doctor didn't raise it anyway. Good luck with the a
Appointments and don't be afraid to say anything at all you want on here. X

WibWoo Sun 16-Jun-13 14:40:04

Hi everyone. This is my first post and I was hoping for some advice. I have been reading this thread since finding out about my missed miscarriage three weeks ago and it has helped enormously. I had an early scan at 8 wks as a 'treat' bc I had been so sick with morning sickness and fainting so my husband and I thought it would give me a boost to see a little heartbeat. Given the HCG levels at a recent blood test (> 150,000) and my sickness I didn't really entertain the idea there could be a problem. Sadly my baby measured a few weeks early and had no hb. I was sure of dates but was in denial given the strength of the preg symptoms so waited almost a week to have another scan which showed no further growth and no heartbeat. I ended up having a D & C the day after.
It has been ten days since the surgery. I feel very very sad in bursts but am back doing everything I was before. Night times are the hardest and I often cry when i get in to bed and feel better for it.

That ended up being a long introduction to my actual question, sorry. I was hoping for some advice on conceiving after a miscarriage. Please excuse the ignorance I will show on some of the questions below!
I have had all the signs of ovulation today and this is the normal time for me (about 10 days after period).
I feel really conflicted about whether or not to try again now or wait (or whether its even possible to fall pregnant now?). I conceived the first month of trying with my DS 2.5yrs and again this last pregnancy so don't want to just 'see what happens' if the risks of miscarriage are higher (is it an established fact that the the uterus lining needs more time to reestablish?) or if there are associated health risks eg risk of infection. Also, if my hcg was so high 10 days ago it must still be in the process of coming down- does that influence your ability to get pregnant? I can't get in to see my obstetrician until Thursday for a follow up by which time it will be too late this cycle.

My major concern is that my period may be v delayed meaning I don't ovulate for months so I should take this opportunity. The miscarriage has shown us more than ever how much we want another baby.

I feel like I'm realistic about the emotional roller coaster that I'm likely to experience next pregnancy and feel like a few months won't make much difference for me. Obviously it is very early days and I could be very wrong about that. Physically I feel fine now. I stopped bleeding after a week and don't have anymore cramping.

I would really appreciate hearing about others' experience/ info/ opinions on trying this soon after a miscarriage. Thank you so much for even reading what had turned out to be a v long post.

WibWoo Sun 16-Jun-13 14:44:00

I've just seen Latebloomers post. My long post all about my own troubles seems highly inappropriate. I'm really sorry for everything you are going for. I should have posted on the main page rather than interrupt this discussion. Apols and best wishes.

squizita Sun 16-Jun-13 16:31:23

Wibwoo no need to apologise! Questions about trying again are basically what we are all about here - so ask away!

In terms of trying again, the usual advice is try after your period, but this is to help with dating. Fertility-wise, once you're ovulating, you're ready.

However, a couple of things to consider are your emotions and your general health. Miscarriage can really knock you back - I had 3 in 7 months - so take time to heal.

I notice you had hcg of 150,000 - I would also request blood tests to ensure you are down to zero BEFORE TTC. This is due to a very rare condition called partial molar (which I have) where you have to be monitored and treated for 6 months. It is VERY rare but a simple blood test 2 weeks after will tell you.

If it is a normal MC, your period could happen 3-6 weeks after, but your cycle may be uneven for a while, or longer/shorter. However in the majority of cases you'll be ovulating just fine. You can buy ovulation tests off amazon (cheaper than boots!) And I found these helped reassure me I was ovulating. Hope that helps.

PicardyThird Sun 16-Jun-13 23:00:11

Latebloomer, goodness, what hard news - am so very sorry for you and your dh going through this. Don't feel bad about thinking about continuing to try - all that doesn't go away because you have this other fight on your hands too. I've no practical advice but I hope the drs will. Be kind to yourself.

squiz, great progress! Am waving pompoms for squizwomb grin

Hello Wibwoo, and sorry for your mc. I think there's a post of mine further up about trying again. I have had 5 mcs and each time our decision about when to try again has been different according to circumstances and how we/I felt at the time. Physically there is no reason not to unless you have had a molar - but with hCG as high as that I would definitely want to know that to be properly ruled out in your case, as squiz says from her experience.

xXjunebugXx Mon 17-Jun-13 00:34:31

Latebloomer, gosh hun that is such bad news. I am so sorry for you and your husband, as if you didn't already have a bad time already sad I really hope he will be OK. I asked my hubby what he'd want if we were in this situation and he said to carry on trying, don't feel bad. You have nothing to feel bad about.

Wibwoo, so sorry for your loss. I have had three miscarriages in 6 months but we waited each time to try again. One period between the 1st and 2nd and two between the 2nd and 3rd. Once your HCG is back to below 5 you are good to go again, so if you feel ready right away go for it. There is no medical reason why you can't, unless like the others said and it was a molar pregnancy. But if it isn't you can try again when you feel ready. But again as the others have said, get your levels done again to check they are coming down at a good rate.

donttrythisathome Mon 17-Jun-13 21:49:49

Wibwoo, so sorry to hear about your loss. I've never had my hcg levels checked, so I'm not much help to you. I'm not going to wait for my first period before trying, but maybe if the preg test is still positive then I will.

I went and got a blood test at St Thomas in London today for thyroid antibodies. It's a study squiz told me about. I noticed some blood in what looks like the start of my fertile mucus and had a bit of cramping. Luckily my appointment was in the EPU there, so they took a swab for infection and booked me for a scan tomorrow (I work in London 3 days a week). God they were soooo nice and professional there compared to my local hospital. The nurse even gave me a pillow for my arm while she took the blood test. They didn't even debate the need for a scan or a swab - just totally helpful!

Went back to work today for the first time. Was a bit sad thinking the last time I was pregnant and hopeful. Mind you I feel so energetic now and healthy and non-bloated compared to when I had pregnancy symptoms so every cloud....

How is everyone?

LandsN Mon 17-Jun-13 23:20:45

Wibwoo i dont think it makes any difference to be honest i had 2 mcs in a year then due to personal circumstances decided to stop trying waited 6 years had another mc had 1 cycle fell again and am now 21 weeks so if you are ready emotionally i wouldnt waste any time good luck xx

Bakingtins Tue 18-Jun-13 07:31:40

Hi everyone, just checking in. I'm going to the zoo today with friend 1 who is being persistently lovely and making sure I'm not moping. She has just sold her house and is moving out of the area. I'm sure we will remain friends but at the moment we see each other a lot and fairly casually, I am really going to miss her. I feel very torn between being pleased for her as they've been trying to make this happen for ages and being upset for me.
friend 2 did get back in touch to say thanks for her birthday gift and ask how I was, and was pretty upset when I told her what had happened over the last few weeks. I'm seeing her next week, we'll see how that goes.
My DH is really upset this time. He hasn't really said it's because of the MC but he seems really depressed. He was v surprised that I didn't want to try again straight away this time. I think he may be more keen to carry on trying than I am, which could be another spanner in the works. We have a lot of talking to do sad
Sorry, that turned into a "all about me" post. How is everyone else?

PicardyThird Tue 18-Jun-13 07:58:58

Much love to all - thinking of you, baking and donttrythis.

Baking, that sounds tough with your dh. It's a little the other way round with us. Dh could take or leave a third child - that sounds very callous; what I mean is of course he would be thrilled with a third, I know he would, but he wanted two and has them and doesn't feel the need/urge I do. He is happy to keep trying but finds it difficult to see me upset and has said now and again that he's not sure we should go on if it's going to upset me again and again. I found him reading an article online about vasectomy the other week confused. When I asked him whether he was thinking of getting one he said absolutely not - and he has always said in the past that he wouldn't have one, even if we decided we were finished - but it did make me think a bit, iyswim.

I am myself beginning to consider the possibility of not actively trying again. I'm nowhere near ready yet to take that step - and in the meantime we are continuing trying, just going into my presumably fertile time now - but the thought is ripening away, I think. Not sure what conclusion this will lead me to sad

squizita Tue 18-Jun-13 11:33:17

baking sorry to hear your friend is moving. My 2 most empathetic friends (one has had a child after post-cancer infertility and another had numerous pregnancy complications so gets the anxiety etc') both live far away, although they are great at phoning and FB messaging support. Glad to hear the other friend has got in touch too - hope the meeting clears the air.

The DH thing is very tough. It's tough on them because there's so little control (even less than we have and we have hardly anything!) over the situation. My DH was also desperate for a baby. The first 2 losses he was like "try again! POAS" but this third one, with the fact we CAN'T has changed it. Weirdly, although a massive, massive disappointment to him I think it's helped him evaluate the situation for what's best for everyone not just "I want a baby" (he is a very broody boy grin ).

Up until the recent complications, my DH wouldn't contemplate any un-treatable situation. Just wouldn't: not gonna happen, if you have something it's APS or Thyroid and treatable... no sperm/egg donors cause our karotypes WILL be OK, no adoption ever because the docs would find out what was wrong and fix it. Like this delicate "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" optimism which made me feel stuck between a rock and a hard place - because I know there is a (small) chance it won't work naturally even with aspirin or whatever. It caused a lot of pressure and upset - I felt he had no idea what it might be like to go through this again and again in blind faith- and that giving up would let everyone down, and sapped my hope that if the worst (medically) happened he would refuse other options and we'd never have any family. Sadly I think it took the 3rd loss's 'complexities' shall we say to make him a bit more realistic (not that I'm saying I won't try again, but I mean to get him to contemplate a plan B). For the first time he's said if we get to 40 without success we'll 'consider' adopting and joked about passing the medical with his beer belly (which he is actually dieting to get rid of! He was comfort eating when he was 'being optimistic' but depressed at the same time). It feels awful that him accepting such a sad possibility makes things better and I was worried this dent in his 'optimism' would make him depressed, but to he honest, it seems to have perked him up. Almost like he's accepted the fear and is dealing with it - and it's made me feel 100% better. I know now he will understand if they say 'sorry you can't have kids naturally' and he said to me the other day "I used to want a baby me, now I want a family for us". It's made me more positive for trying again, too. With fewer 'what ifs', I can just concentrate on the health/testing side and see that 70% chance as something we're both realistically aiming for. I used to fear a childless, bitter split aged 45 or 30 more years of a disappointed, brittly optimistic husband because he'd never explored every option (irrationally) but now that pressure is gone.

squizita Tue 18-Jun-13 13:46:47

Just seen something on The Miscarriage Association forums that has knocked me for six. I don't think the poster realised but... now I keep thinking "is ^that^ what people think of me? That I would be dumb enough to drink alcohol? Just feel awful now. Went to the toilets and cried, think people must think I'm a bad person now. sad

Part of the tragic irony if miscarriage is how hard in real medical terms it is to scupper a pregnancy through lifestyle. Of course health (no booze, good food, cleanliness) during pregnancy must be promoted but at the same time I can't help worrying (some) people might assume fault in mothers. I mean we've all seen stupid comments about stress... and I read on another forum a mum who had convinced herself, thanks to a careless comment, that her child's disability was caused by having clingfilm in her kitchen. sad

squizita Tue 18-Jun-13 13:48:26

...drink alcohol when pregnant I mean. Which I did not! I would never! At the moment I am not allowed to TTC for several months, so a Friday glass of wine is allowed. wine

PicardyThird Tue 18-Jun-13 19:46:46

Oh, squiz flowers

I have never yet had anyone assume I caused it in any way, though I have had the lectures on stress (FFS). I'm as sure as I can be that people don't think that, in general, and that the person cited on the forum was a particular exemplar of insensitivity or stupidity or both combined. And yyy to what you say about causing mc through lifestyle.

After mc no. 4 I tortured myself as I had eaten some grilled goat's chesse in the very early days - grilled so it was properly heated through but I was terrified in case it was listeriosis. And I worried after this pregnancy because I had still scooped the cat litter, although our cats are purely indoor and only eat commercial cat food, i.e. are at almost zero risk for toxo, and I have always been extremely careful re hand hygiene. I think worries and self-blame are part of the whole horrible package we get landed with. And I honestly believe blame from elsewhere is vanishingly rare. Please don't let it upset you. x

squizita Tue 18-Jun-13 20:17:38

Thanks, to be fair this person simply posted something along the lines of 'a survey shows booze causes pregnancy problems- I have decided to tell you recurrent miscarriers all in the hope it saves a baby' ... to me that suggests there are folk out there thinking I'm that thick.

I had some daft comments (make up, hair dye... because we all know looking mainstream means you've a better womb?!) but it really upset me.

Hormones I think. Heyyy maybe my hormones have fallen far enough for it to be PMT??

Bakingtins Tue 18-Jun-13 20:46:20

I hope they were told where to go! I'd be incandescent with rage if anyone dared to imply I'd caused any of the miscarriages.
You're both right about how hard it is to actually cause a miscarriage by doing everything wrong (exhibit A, all the women smoking outside school with their massive bumps). I think all the healthy living and vitamin supplements in the world can only tip the balance every so slightly in your favour.
I've decided I'm going to do the C25K running programme over the summer to get fit and do something positive whilst we consider our options. I bought some frighteningly expensive running shoes today from a very bossy man who told me which ones he'd allow me to purchase hmm so we'll see how it goes.

donttrythisathome Tue 18-Jun-13 22:58:55

Squiz what a stupid comment - on the Miscarriage association Forum FFS?!!! Some people just have a staggering lack of awareness. I had to grin at your comment about your reaction being due to PMT. Every cloud....
That was a very touching post about your DH. I just want to give him (and you) a very large hug. I never really think of the effects of this on the men. My DH while empathetic to me is just not great at expressing himself emotionally, although he is trying.

Baking, glad to hear about your friend being back in touch. It's hard that your friend is moving away. I don't have any close friends nearby, in fact not even in the country, and I feel the lack strongly at the moment. I've been in touch with one of my friends back home who has had rmcs (now 12 weeks preg yahoo) which really helped.

Picardy - it is sad to be considering the unthinkable isn't it? I have the faintest glimmer of similar thoughts now. It's occuring to me to stop trying as I'm 40 and I am fearful of the quality of my eggs to be honest.

I had a scan today and have retained tissue. Am happy to have discovered this, but what a pain. It's only a tiny amount so have been advised to "see what happens" for a week, and then do a pregnancy test. I told then I am really keen to start trying again but they said I won't ovulate until I get a negative pregnancy test anyway. And that medical management might not be successful at removing the tissue anyway. I'm frustrated as I was sure I was ovulating and wanted to get cracking.

Anyone have retained tissue after a ERPC before?

squizita Wed 19-Jun-13 09:26:24

Donttrythis I don't know if mine is the same but I had a tiny bit of retained tissue, which did not show on scans (I think it was lying flat and the same thickness as the lining). When it shifted (it just bled), my HCG went down by 150+ in a few days whereas it had been stuck! And as my HCg is sticky for other reasons yours might go down even faster. Hopefully. Before that, I had almost daily comes-and-goes mild pain one side or the other and sore boobs - this is much less so now.

As for the comment... I feel a bit of an overreacter now! blush This is a relative of a lady who MCed, I guess some people search for reasons and if it's not them personally just don't realise that (A) if you're on that site and pregnant you've been through it already and the only cocktails you're on are ones aspirin and vitamins and (B) that 'reasons' need to be carefully handled to avoid victim blaming.

blimeyohriley Wed 19-Jun-13 10:37:52

Hi all, please can I join you? I've started other threads and been advised by posters to pop over to here so here I am.

I'm feeling so low today. Just so lonely. I've had 4 mcs since dd (3), most recent one in April which was a mmc at 10 weeks and resulted in erpc. 7 weeks later I had the AF from hell and since then have dtd at approx the right time. I now find myself one day late (if my cycles have gone back to their normal 28 days). Planning to test tomorrow morning with fmu. Tested on Mon night but got bfn.

Have got an appt at St Marys RMC next month, but we took the decision to carry on trying in the meantime...

I am desperate to get pg again but so emotional about the potential rollercoaster again. One thing I find really tough is that sometimes I want to talk about the mcs but then I run the risk of stupid, unhelpful comments, so then I just never discuss it, which just makes me so very lonely and isolated - perhaps that's where this thread can help me?!

I just feel so out of touch with friends, and so lonely. We moved to a new area which isn't helping, I'd convinced myself that a fresh start would be good (I was finding it increasingly tough being around friends who have all had 2nd children) but now I'm not so sure it was the right decision. Grass is greener and all that.

Am also very unhappy at work, (although thankfully that situation should resolve itself at the end of this year - just got to find a way to get through the next few months) and finding my DD's behaviour very challenging at the moment. I am just so exhausted.

Rubbish!!!

Anyway, I needed to get that off my chest, hope that's ok!

donttrythisathome Wed 19-Jun-13 10:45:03

Hi blimey. Your situations sounds very similar to mine. 1 daughter of 3, multiple mcs (3 in my case), recent ERPC after a mmc, isolated from friends, moving to new area, friends with second kids, dislike work, and desperate to e preg. In fact most people on this thread share some or all of those characteristics. Shit isn't it?

Hope you are pregnant, and welcome to the thread. There's lots of support here.

donttrythisathome Wed 19-Jun-13 10:46:26

squiz, you didn't overreact - that poster was deeply offensive.

donttrythisathome Wed 19-Jun-13 11:02:44

Me again!

Are there home tests you can get for testing levels of hcg, or is this determined by bloodtests only?

blimeyohriley Wed 19-Jun-13 11:16:14

Thanks donttry, but sorry that you have experienced/are feeling similar to me. Definitely is shit, yes! Sending some positive vibes your way.

Bakingtins Wed 19-Jun-13 12:46:16

Welcome Blimey. I think having a place to chat really helps. I know lots of people IRL that have had one miscarriage, by the time you get to 4 you are outside their experience and they are back to not knowing what to say.
Donttry I don't think you can get home tests that give you a level of HCG, just a positive or negative HPT at whatever level they can sense the hormone. I suppose you can look for the weeks going backwards on a CBdigi sad but seems a waste of expensive tests. If you still get a positive in a week on a cheapie test then I'd ask for blood levels to be checked.

Bakingtins Wed 19-Jun-13 12:47:10

Forgot to say good luck for testing tomorrow Blimey hope you are pregnant and if you are we are here to hand hold through the rollercoaster.

blimeyohriley Wed 19-Jun-13 13:01:43

Thanks baking that is so very true, and why I feel so isolated. I know that sometimes people are genuinely well meaning but they cannot possible truly understand remotely what it feels like to go through multiple times ( I also feel that some think why are you bothering to carry on). Thanks also re handholding. I will report back tomorrow.

donttrythisathome Wed 19-Jun-13 14:22:35

Great idea baking, thanks. I seem unable to pick my way through the information on this, even on seemingly obvious things, so all the help on this thread is very appreciated.

teaandchocolate Fri 21-Jun-13 10:57:53

Hi everyone!
I'm so sorry for not posting much on here recently. I've been on an emotional rollercoaster to be honest (& still am). I veer from feeling awful with nausea etc to feeling ok then being totally panicked and convinced its all over. I feel like I'm just living in this limbo land biding my time until the pregnancy fails but the longer it goes on the harder it is. I'm just avoiding people and feel guilty that I'm being such a crap mum to DD at the moment. Anyway so sorry to moan as I know you're all going through horrible times. Have another scan on Wednesday so hoping that will give some clarity one way or the other.

Hi to Blimey and welcome! I completely relate to everything you're saying. My DD is nearly 3 and I feel like various I aspects of my life need an overhaul but I'm not really in a position to sort stuff out as I hope to be pregnant soon (well I know I am but you know what I mean....) and now is just not a great time to be taking on new ventures as I don't really feel like 'me'. Watched my wedding video at the weekend and was nice seeing how happy I was before all this mc crap started!! Anyway, Blimey did you take a test?

How is everyone else doing? Hello to Squiz, Donttry, Baking junebug and Picardy. How are you all feeling? Dontry what has happened with your retained tissues?

Latebloomer how are you and DH doing?

squizita Fri 21-Jun-13 15:13:08

Quick pop in to say... blood down to 05! Clinic VERY pleased with me (not that I did anything deliberately). WOOP.

orangebowl Fri 21-Jun-13 16:42:06

Squiz that's fantastic news! Good work wink

Tea- good to hear from you. Completely understand how you are feeling... Mixture of looking forward to and dreading Wednesday I would have thought. And you are NOT a crap mum to your DD. she won't have noticed a thing... We are too hard on ourselves on that front.

No real update from me.. I'm now 31 weeks and finish work in a week...

xXjunebugXx Fri 21-Jun-13 17:07:14

Hi tea, it is a hard time isn't it, waiting and waiting. Waiting for it to go wrong because that's what you are used to or waiting for it to all be OK....but the wait is torture. I am sure you aren't being a crap Mum but I can relate to the kind of bubble you put yourself in when you are pregnant again, less patience, less get up and go, more worry, more stress, more wishing the days away. It's hard, give yourself a break, I am positive your little one thinks you are awesome.

Squizz, whoo flipping whoo, that is amazing news. Very happy for you hun.

I'm OK, tired as I am finding it hard to sleep at night as my brain doesn't stop with the why's and questions. I'm a zombie in the day time right now. But other than that I'm alright.

Hope everyone is dandy x

donttrythisathome Fri 21-Jun-13 18:32:46

Squiz woo hoo!

Tea, I'm so sorry you feel like that. I will for sure be exactly the same if I get preg again. I wasn't after two mcs, but after the third one, I don't think I'll be excited until I pass the 12 week mark. Totally relate to avoid people and feeling like a crap mother! Although I'm sure you aren't crap too, just not as wonderful as usual! I think it is ok, in fact important, for our children, even the smallies, to know that we can be sad or mad sometimes, and that is ok, as long as they are sure it's not their fault.

31 weeks schooldilemmas - brilliant!

junebug, tiredness could be due to your body recovering too. It's a big trauma.

donttrythisathome Fri 21-Jun-13 18:35:39

Me again. Had lots of blood tests today. Also has result of swab - no infection which is good.The nurse was so nice. It makes me really emotional when they are nice, like when they made me a tea at St Thomas hospital.

Preg test a bit fainter. If still positive next week do you think I should take the tablets/second ERPC to get rid of the retained tissue? Sorry if I asked that already.

teaandchocolate Fri 21-Jun-13 19:11:18

Thanks everyone. I just feel so stressed as my sickness is really easing off and I'm only 8.5 weeks (hopefully) so when it was bad I felt like I neglected DD and now its better I am just stressing (& googling) all time & I am probably neglecting DD! Had anyone else had morning sickness come and go in a successful pregnancy? With DD I was hardly nauseas at all so its hard to compare.

June as Donttry says you've been through a lot and your body needs to recover. Although I can relate to being up half the night and then being exhausted all day. I am waking at about 4am and can't get back to sleep as feel so anxious!

Donttry what did the hospital advise about the retained tissue and how many erpcs have you had before? I've had 2 and both were fine and the 2nd one the tissue was tested so I know what probably caused the mc. Is there a risk of infection?

School 31 weeks is amazing!! Wow!! How are you feeling? So pleased you're nearly there!!

Bakingtins Sat 22-Jun-13 19:58:32

Squiz great news! Zero next week....

Donttry if you still test positive next week I'd get your levels checked on a blood test. You need to know if they are dropping gradually (often taken 3 weeks for me to get a negative HPT) or if they've stalled because there is some tissue in there causing a problem, in which case you need some further advice on if you wait and see or if you go for more medical or surgical management.

Tea I really feel for you at the moment, it is so hard to be wishing the days away until you get past your danger points. We will all have everything crossed for you on Wednesday.

Hi June

School so pleased to hear you are on the home straight!

I feel a bit better and more positive about life in general, although I'm just trying not to think about anything MC related. I have been taking antihistamines for hayfever and they knock me out, I have been sleeping like a dead person, but I think I really needed it, because one of the effects of the pregnancy, all the stress in limbo-land and then the MV was I haven't slept properly for weeks and weeks. I've also started C25K this week and whilst I am more unfit that I thought possible it feels good to be doing something about it.
I think I'm ovulating and hubby is really horny. It feels really odd to be trying NOT to get pregnant for the first time in 2 yrs. We've decided to speak to the consultant in July and then have a heart-to-heart about what to do from here.

PicardyThird Sat 22-Jun-13 20:37:18

Hello all.

Everything crossed for you, tea.

Welcome, blimey - you're in the right place here for some support and understanding.

Donttry, agree with baking - I would get your blood levels tested - I think HPTs are too imprecise really.

June, I'm having sleep problems too - not sure whether they are directly MC-related, time of year (I am quite sensitive to the light mornings, I think) or other stuff that's going on, but I can empathise.

No news from here. I'm 'moving on', I think, as much as one can. Am about mid-cycle. Don't think I'd mind all that much if I don't get pg this cycle, as we are going on holiday for two weeks mid-July and I don't really want to deal with mc crap/worries/injections during all that - nor the next as I am taking the dc away for a week the second last week of Aug! But don't feel OK about putting ttc on hold all summer, so we plough on and see if our particular version of sod's law takes effect.

Bakingtins Sun 23-Jun-13 17:31:45

hi Picardy hope for once sods law works in your favour.

I feel really flat today. We waved goodbye to the student who has been living with us for 6 weeks (DS2 nearly went with her) and home feels a bit empty without her, but it's really made me think about how much has happened in that time. When she arrived I was 6 weeks pregnant and although I was anxious I did feel we were doing something and there was a chance it would all be ok this time. I'm not sure how I can have been through a bad scan, a fortnight of limbo, 4th miscarriage and a lot of soul searching about the future in such a short space of time. I think her being around has been a factor in holding it together stiff upper lip reaction so not sure where that leaves us now she's gone.

LateBloomer414 Sun 23-Jun-13 22:02:37

Hi all, sorry for the radio silence this week. It's been great to be back at work as it provides a good distraction for me as it's been so busy. My SIL and friends have made it their mission to 'babysit' me as DH has been travelling for work. He is feeling fine - this is the irony, he's not sick- but I know the trip has been tiring for him. He is fit as a fiddle otherwise so that, along with his optimism and his determination, is giving me the strength to feel positive about his outcome. His appointments start this coming week and surgery is scheduled for early July. My work has been amazingly supportive so I know I can take off as much time as I need to be with him which is a great comfort. I am going to focus on getting him well - I want my husband to be healthy more than I want a baby right now- but I will ask the TTC questions of the oncologists and we'll take it from there. Funnily enough my cycle seems to be getting back to normal- my face is full of zits and sprouting hairs and - sorry TMI- I've got some sticky egg white action going on downstairs. I got a referral to the RMC so I need to ring them on Monday to schedule an appointment- DH is the focus but I don't want to lose steam entirely. I have private insurance so I am hoping that will make the wait a bit shorter.

Hoping all is well with everyone. I'm sending good vibes out to you. Thank you for the support here.

LandsN Mon 24-Jun-13 07:31:15

Hi tea just wanted to say I am 22 weeks now and my morning sickness has been up and down since day 1 just when I think I am in the clear it comes back again hope u don't feel too bad x and hope everyone is doing ok xx

squizita Mon 24-Jun-13 08:57:31

Tea - what a horrible stressful time for you. Hoping your next appointment is full of reassurance (enough in the reassurance bank to last you until the appointment after that!).

DontTryThis ... if still a line ask for a progesterone test? They may do this before deciding on surgery anyway. My Progesterone took a long time to go down. As a result the tiny amount of retained materials (they couldn't tell if it was part of the mole or normal- couldn't see it as it was flat against the endometrium) was hanging on in there - they didn't D&C me because Progesterone was falling and no infection, the day it his 0 I bled moderately for a week and my HCG started to fall.

Picardy - best of luck, whether than means BFP with perfect timing or BFP with annoying faffing on hols which ends up totally worth the faff!

Baking - hope you feel more upbeat soon. It must be so hard not knowing what to do, I hope the consultant gives you some clarity. I have been suffering with the hayfever as there are all sorts of old wive's tales about over-the-counter medicines slowing the hormones going back to normal, rationally don't believe them but irrationally doing everything.

Latebloomer - glad to hear that DH is feeling well in himself, sounds like he has strength of character and a wonderfully supportive group of people round him. If your cycle is getting back to normal then hopefully it will stay normal until you're feeling ready to TTC.

...as for me. Paranoid as per. Got some boob pain and had a hangover (Spanish restaurant with DH = sangria = goodness knows what in there but it tasted nice) had me convinced I'd spiked right up from 5 to 500 over the weekend. blush Doh! Hormonal sickness doesn't come with a cheap-red-wine headache. grin Oh dear though, I've lose weight and haven't really drunk wine for months for various reasons, I'm a cheap date now.

blimeyohriley Mon 24-Jun-13 11:06:11

Thanks for the welcome all, I hope everyone on this rollercoaster is doing ok.

I took three tests in the end, all negative, and then yesterday, at cd33, AF arrived. Guess it will take a while for my cycles to go back to 28 days after the ERPC?

Am not feeling too sad today, it's so up and down though, have decided not to ttc now until after our appointment at RMC next month.

Even had a small glass of red wine last night for the first time in weeks.

Am trying to set up a business so may focus all my efforts into that instead for a bit. Not sure.

Sending good thoughts to all.

Polka2 Mon 24-Jun-13 15:28:47

Hi ladies - reading through your stories I've realised what a tough bunch of birds we all are after suffering the rollercoaster of mc - hugs to all.

I wondered if you could help/point me in the right direction as, as much as I've searched on the googleweb I've not come up with much definitive facts. My story is...

I'm 37, been TTC for over 5yrs (have PCOS) had various lap/dye blah blah but since having acupuncture I have been preggers 3 times in 15 months - but all come to nothing - mmc of twins at 12wks, mc at 5wks 5 and currently going thru' mc at 5 wks. The last BFP I was having 75mg of aspirin and 400mg Cyclogest x 2 a day which obv hasn't helped.

My specialist, Mrs Kalpana Reddy, that has been helping me with my infertility has begrudging prescribed the aspirin/cyclogest and did some basic NHS testing (lupus/chromosonal) which all came back fine. I feel there is 'something' wrong and would like to know where you ladies would recommend I go - I've heard that Prof Lesley Regan/Raj Rai at St Mary's and Zita West are excellent but also understand Prof S Quenby is good too - I have private health insurance and hope I can get treatment thru' this but wondered if anyone could give me pointers as to who to see - I know Prof Regan doesn't test for NK cells but I have no idea if that is applicable to me?! Sorry to be a pain ladies but you all seem to know you're stuff (sadly)!

dezzy1976 Mon 24-Jun-13 15:31:54

Hi Ladies,
I'm sorry to read of all your losses. I've just had and ERPC for my third MMC (done with US guidance to hopefully avoid the very long and protracted recovery I had last time - took 7 months to recover!).
Had lots of bloods done after the 2nd and all clear, DH and my karyotype done and both OK. Changed diet from veggie to meat-eater, was on aspirin and cyclogest but all to no avail, it seems.
My GP has sent a referral letter to St Mary's, so hopefully we'll get an appointment soon.
Anyone had any joy with that clinic?
Good luck to all. xx

LateBloomer414 Mon 24-Jun-13 22:28:09

Hi Dezzy and Polka- I rang St Mary's this afternoon to try to get an appointment. I'm going private as well so will let you know what happens (left a voicemail...will be politely persistent with ringing back. A lot.)

Baking- are you feeling any better these days?

Squiz- how's the hangover? My last sangria was in Portugal a few years back. Totally and completely worth any next day delicacy. All can be fixed with eggs and toast and tea.

DH comes home tomorrow. Counting down till I can clobber him with cuddles.

butterfly86 Mon 24-Jun-13 23:52:26

Hi sorry I've not been on here much lately I don't have much to say most if the time but I have been having a quick read through now and again to keep up.

Tea hope you are ok sorry you are feeling stressed not too long until your next scan now though fingers crossed for you smile

Great news for squiz re levels going down and fantastic news for school not long to go now! Also Lands I can't believe you are 22 weeks that seems to have flown by!

Hope everyone else is ok baking, Picardy, and all the new ladies smile

I started a thread a couple of days ago but thought I would come to the lovely bunch on here for advice or just to talk really, had mid cycle bleeding the last couple of months but this month has been really unusual, last af was very light mainly brown and more like spotting I've had sore boobs since about day 12ish then started to bleed a little mid cycle again cd17. I was tracking ov as still trying to get my progesterone checked, finally got a smile on cd19 by which point I was bleeding pretty heavily, yesterday and today I've been passing small clots and have a heavy dark to bright red flow I did a pg test just to be sure and it was negative. If I didn't know better I'd say I was having a miscarriage it's not impossible but highly unlikely we are using condoms but there has been the odd occasion but its been outside of my fertile period and we've used withdrawal. Been to the docs today as I'm concerned about the mid cycle bleeding each month but she wasn't interested said you are only 26 I'm not concerned told me to mention it to consultant and gave me a prescription for norethisterone to stop the bleeding, then said don't take them if you are having your progesterone tested on Friday but if you are still bleeding after that then take them! Can anybody shed any light? My boobs are still really sore too? Sorry to go on about myself but could really do with some input feeling a bit worried and a bit alone in all of this shit that's happening to me sad

PicardyThird Tue 25-Jun-13 06:39:49

Hello all. Welcome polka and dezzy, and although I'm sorry you find yourselves here, you've come to the right place. Polka, I'm not in the UK but I gather from the others on here and my own reading that any of those names you mention would be a good bet.

Latebloomer, I just want to say how impressed I am with how well you're holding it together in such a frightening time flowers Do make sure you look after yourself too.

butterfly, I am shock at your GP - mid-cycle bleeding should always, always be investigated, whether there are pg/mc complications or not, no matter what your age is. I think you should push (pref with your consultant) to have that checked out properly. And tbh your last cycle does sound rather as if something was afoot, possibly even a mc sad, esp as it's not entirely impossible that you will be pg from your contraception practices. Something like this would ring major alarm bells for me (although I have a very, very regular cycle so anything out of the ordinary is suspicious). You need to be listened to and have proper care right now, and I'm sorry you've been treated so dismissively.

PicardyThird Tue 25-Jun-13 06:40:46

that you would have been pg, sorry, not will. Sorry, awful typo to make <slaps self>

Justonemoretime Tue 25-Jun-13 07:24:24

Hi, I'm new to this forum business - just changed my online name from dezzy1976. Lovely to hear from such supportive ladies.
xx

butterfly86 Tue 25-Jun-13 07:48:19

Hi picardy I didn't even notice the typo til you said don't worry! I normally have a very regular 30-31 day cycle so this isn't normal for me although it has happened each month since my last mc so possibly hormonal but I still need it checking out, I couldn't believe the doctor especially as in the waiting room there was a big spread on the wall about jade goody dying at the age of 27 then she tells me it's ok because I'm young! My appointment with the consultant is the 16th of July so at least it's not too long to wait. I'm a born worrier so always think the worst but even if it is just hormones or whatever it still needs sorting we are wanting to start ttc after we get married in 7 weeks time, I'm seeing my accupuncturist tonight maybe she can sort me out!

Bakingtins Tue 25-Jun-13 08:06:58

Hi Polka and Justone

LB glad to hear you DH is feeling ok, it sounds like you are staying v positive. I hope this period of not TTC brings you some answers so you can move forward when you are both ready.

butterfly your GP sounds awful, I hope the consultant is more proactive. I did have strange cycles and mid cycle bleeding for several months after my early MCs, my body seems to have got better at sorting itself out dammed with faint praise with the recent ones. I don't want to freak you out but you can get a positive on an OPK from HCG so it is just possible it was a chem pregnancy. Hope that doesn't make you feel worse about it but it seems that thought had crossed your mind already. I think you need someone to examine you properly and do smear, scan, bloods to reassure you that everything is in working order.

Bakingtins Tue 25-Jun-13 08:10:38

Or, butterfly you've had some retained products, which from experiences on here seems to be pretty common, and this is your body expelling them and sorting itself out, and you will now have clockwork cycles and a honeymoon baby. FX.

butterfly86 Tue 25-Jun-13 08:28:53

Baking I do think it's either been an early mc or retained products, my dp said straight away he thinks something was left behind as I've never been right since. Sorry tmi but most of the clots when I've examined them have been brown and had that old end of period odour but the blood I'm passing is bright red does that sound like retained products? I hope it has been that and things will get better now I'm sick I just want things back to normal.
I filled up a little when you said honeymoon baby I really hope so I feel like we've been on this long old road too long now, surely I and everyone else on here deserve a break soon.

teaandchocolate Tue 25-Jun-13 09:13:32

Hi everyone!

Butterfly so nice to hear from you and I'm so sorry you're having such a rubbish time still. I agree you should push for some answers about this especially if its not normal for you. Although my cycles are always totally messed up after mc, especially the later ones. However, I do have pcos so chances are its hormonal as mine are very sensitive and prone to getting out of kilter. When you see your consultant push for a detailed scan to get everything checked out physically and also blood tests. Hopefully it was just your body flushing everything out and getting ready for ttc again. I agree you need some good luck now! I also agree your GP sounds very annoying. Its not as if you don't have a reason to be concerned, looking at your history and surely its more worrying because you're young as we kind of accept the our bodys go a bit mental as we get older!! Anyway, hope you get some answers and things settle down a bit. How have you been feeling in yourself?

Lands Hi! thanks for popping back to reassure me. 22 weeks is amazing!! I often think of you and how stressful your early pregnancy was and how far you've come!!

Baking how are you feeling? Any brighter? You have been so strong for so long its not surprising that you have a wobble. I am in awe of your determination to keep going to have a 3rd. If I ever get to have a 2nd I'm not sure I could do this again. But its such a difficult decision and one that is hard to make without letting the physical need to have a baby take over completely. The running sounds like a fab idea. I'm jealous! I have done no exercise at all recently as am so paranoid that I'll dislodge something! So added to the fact I've been eating rubbish as can't face healthy food I feel like a blob!

Latebloomer glad you sound like you're doing really well. Hope you have a fab time with DH when you see him.

Justone and Polka hello and welcome. So sorry for your losses. I haven't been to St Marys but read good things about it although they don't test for immune issues. I did a bit of research and did like the sound of Zita West as Dr Nduke has moved there as he is big into immune issues (Chicago tests etc) and is apparently very nice. I also like the fact they look at alternative therapies etc. Its such a hard decision knowing where to go. I had private healthcare and it would cover some tests (none of the immune stuff) but I ended up getting quite a few on the NHS through a lovely local consultant. However, the private healthcare has a limit on how much you can spend per year and it ran out very quickly!!

Picardy FX for the ttc!! I always think its best it happens as inconvenient times...maybe I am warped!!

Blimey as I mentioned above my cycle always goes a bit mental after a mc or erpc. Takes a few months to settle down. Found acpuncture really good at sorting stuff out and calming me down!!

No news here really. Was sick again and feeling pretty dreadful yesterday so felt a bit more positive but still terrified for scan tomorrow as just not sure how I'm going to cope if it goes wrong again. I can't help thinking positively about it now for some reason which really scares me!! Will keep you all posted.

LandsN Tue 25-Jun-13 11:31:13

Thanks tea I know thankfully all has settled down sort of now except they think I might have the onset of spd but only time will tell not much I can do about it anyway not going to moan as it is a small price to pay seeing as I never thought I would get this far again hope you are feeling better i know exactly how you feel though I found it easier to set myself goals eg midwife in 5 days rather than keep thinking week by week it helped me get passed the first few months xx

butterfly86 Tue 25-Jun-13 12:26:31

Hi tea I've been feeling ok just petrified at the thought of. ttc again and going through those early weeks I'm just so scared of it happening again I can't ever imagine us getting a happy ending, then this bleeding has just piled more worry on but apart from that I'm ok keeping busy with wedding plans!

The sickness sounds like a good sign for you hope all is well tomorrow, positive thinking is good I've always had a feeling something wasn't quite right with my pregnancies so the fact you feel ok about it is hopefully because everything is fine smile will be thinking about you tomorrow x

Bakingtins Tue 25-Jun-13 13:40:13

Good luck for tomorrow, Tea everything crossed for a positive update from you.

Polka2 Tue 25-Jun-13 14:33:42

Hi ladies - thanks for the welcome and all the advices, it certainly is a complete minefield of who/where to go and what tests to have, I just wish it was a bit more simple as feel I'm running out of time and sanity to not get this right - aggh!

I'm currently having a conundrum as I'm pretty sure I've miscarried this time but its all been delayed due to Cyclogest (this is my non-medical knowledge gut feeling) however as I've only had 30mins of cramping (Sat eve) and only passed one clot then light bleeding since, I've been told to carry on taking Cyclogest and wait for a my 6 wk scan next week to be 100% sure. I know I'm being really impatient and would dance and do cartwheels if I hadn't mc but in my heart of hearts I definately think its game over so just want to stop the Cy. and move on.....

Hope you are all managing to enjoy the sunshine today anyhow - I feel like leaping into a vat of Mr Whippy!!!

Bakingtins Tue 25-Jun-13 16:00:50

Cyclogest is a real double edged sword, isn't it? I took it in my last pregnancy - found out at 7+4 that baby was measuring 5 weeks, then at 8+4 it was 6 weeks and had a weak hb, then finally miscarried at 9+2. My instructions were to keep taking the cyclogest until the point at which a MC was confirmed, but I think actually all it did was string the whole thing out. Lesley Regan is not a fan, says that low progesterone is the symptom of a failing pregnancy and not the cause of it, but on the other hand I know of people who have had RMC and then done well on cyclogest, and it has been shown in studies to improve outcomes of IVF. My consultant is of the opinion it "does no harm" or at least the only harm is it may drag out the process of a pregnancy loss. I think whilst there is a chance that your gut feel is wrong and everything is progressing ok you need to take it. I hope you get better news than you expect next week.

Polka2 Tue 25-Jun-13 16:54:26

Thanks baking, think you're absolutely right about double edged sword and stupidly I'd sat all my hopes that I'd offer the magic needed for a viable pghmm

Justonemoretime Tue 25-Jun-13 17:04:26

Hi All,
Yes, I agree that the cyclogest is a double edged sword. I found out at the 13 week scan that my latest had died at around 9ish weeks (saw a good hb at 9 weeks 1 day). But because of the cyclogest I had no idea as still feeling pg, no spotting etc as my body was fooled into thinking everything was OK. Then had to wait a week to arrange ERPC (I wanted it done with US guidance as I had lots of problems with retained products last time). I am convinced that cyclogest kept it 'in'. Looking forward to a quick and uncomplicated recovery this time.
Having said that, I'd rather take it than not if there's a chance it can tip the balance in my favour next time.
xx

Justonemoretime Tue 25-Jun-13 18:05:52

Hi, Does anyone know how far in advance of ttc again they need to do the tests for NK cells? Has anyone had this test done? What does it involve? Thanks in advance, Ladies. xx

Bakingtins Tue 25-Jun-13 18:12:31

I haven't had it but did look in to getting it done in Coventry (Dr Quenby). She does a uterine biopsy, you have to have had at least one normal period and be 7-10 days post ov and definitely not pregnant, so I guess that's c2months post MC at the earliest. They do a consult, scan and test on the same day (biopsy is done conscious, something like a smear) and the results are emailed or phoned to you within a month. Cost £350
That may not apply to blood testing though.

Justonemoretime Tue 25-Jun-13 18:20:52

Thanks Bakingtins. I'll ask and see what I can get sorted. Just want to get as many tests as possible done ASAP so we can get on with deciding whether to ttc again.

Polka2 Wed 26-Jun-13 09:47:57

I got a BFN this morning so at least I don't have to wait for a scan next week before stopping my Cyclogest and I can move mind/body onto the next stage.

Bakingtins Wed 26-Jun-13 11:22:29

Sorry to hear that, Polka that's rubbish news sad

Polka2 Wed 26-Jun-13 12:47:14

Thanks BakingTins, I knew deep down it was game over so just wanted the BFN sooner rather than letter so I could stop the meds and let nature do its thang. Gutting but expected!

Bakingtins Wed 26-Jun-13 16:20:29

I got a copy of my AMH results today 19.9 which is 'satisfactory fertility' but not far off 'low' which is anything <15.7. Another nail in the coffin of trying again, although I haven't had too much difficulty getting pregnant the last few times. It does make me think maybe my eggs are all scrambled though.
I'm nervous about the RMC appointment next week and I don't really know why as I'm not expecting any earth shattering news. I guess knowing if the losses are related to chromosome problems might have a big effect on our decisions from this point onwards. I think it's more the prospect of the Big Talk DH and I need to have after it....
and in other news I had a preliminary chat with a social worker about adoption today

Bakingtins Wed 26-Jun-13 17:24:55

Tea are you ok? Have been thinking of you today.

orangebowl Wed 26-Jun-13 17:34:59

I've also been thinking about you tea. X

teaandchocolate Wed 26-Jun-13 18:28:29

Hi everyone! Thank you for all your support and sorry for not updating sooner.

Scan today was perfect!! 9.3 weeks and heartbeat all fine and it was wriggling around and waving! So so relieved and happy. Trying not to get too excited as need to wait until proper nuchal test etc. next scan in 2 weeks then full nuchal and tests probably the week after hopefully. Keep all your fingers and toes crossed for me!!

Not had a chance to read through the other post properly as was in a state of anxiety the past 2 days but will do later. Thank you so much for thinking of me, I really do appreciate it.

LateBloomer414 Wed 26-Jun-13 22:36:49

Tea, that's marvellous. Fingers crossed things continue to go well.

Baking, I can't tell if your message was one of positivity or one of resignation. Or just covering the bases. In any case, hoping that finding out options provide some peace of mind.

We met with the surgeon today which was good- I got to ask a lot of questions (I operate better when I know the facts) and DH seems comfortable with the plan. We need to explore putting his junk on ice as he'll need to do chemo which is likely to affect fertility. Found out that my private insurance won't cover the RMC so will need to try through the NHS. Normally I'd be up for a fight but I need to direct my energy toward DH and stupid cancer.

LandsN Thu 27-Jun-13 05:38:32

Tea that is brilliant news I am so pleased for you fingers crossed everything will be fine smile x

PicardyThird Thu 27-Jun-13 07:57:34

Great news, tea smile

Baking, your message makes me feel all sorts of things - sad for you and empathic (won't start going on about mememe now) and curious and tentatively excited about your struck-out news. flowers

Bakingtins Thu 27-Jun-13 08:18:01

Phew! Tea that's brilliant news. grin

LB our health insurance won't cover RMC either. Now I've got the magic 3-in-a-row I've only waited a month for an appointment and I think that was mostly about time for results to be back. I hope it won't delay you seeing someone too much. Glad you are getting answers and a plan wrt DH.

I think I'm gradually coming around to the idea of not trying again, though the decision is not made yet. If there's something we missed when we see the consultant next time then we'll have the tests. if baby had some completely random chromosome problem that isn't likely to recur then maybe that changes things, but really, how likely is it that that has happened 4 times, 3 times in succession? I personally think I'm in the group that will eventually be explained by the reproductive immunology conditions, but that seems to be a black hole of possible tests and controversial treatments to pour our remaining emotional energy and £££ into. I'm going to ask about it next week. It's an odd feeling because previously I haven't really even thought about not trying again, but maybe we've just gone as far as we can cope with.

PicardyThird Thu 27-Jun-13 11:13:55

Baking, suffice to say that we are living parallel lives, to quite an extent. We too are very close to <brrrr, terrible phrase in the context> cutting our losses and giving up the dream.

There's an 'in other news' for me too: the genetics report is at the gynae's and I'm going to collect it in a couple of hours. Erk.

Polka2 Thu 27-Jun-13 11:50:25

Baking a mix of sad but exciting/brave news - I wish you luck with it all.

Tea wow, what lovely news from such a positive scan and it was waving at you too!!

I didn't know wether you ladies follow/had seen/were interested but Zita West and Dr Ndukwe are running a Q&A on Twitter between 1pm-2pm - thought it might be interest and worth a nose! (wink)

PicardyThird Thu 27-Jun-13 17:15:30

It was a boy, probably with monosomy 21. They think one of us might have a balanced translocation. Appt for genetic counselling in Aug.

Bakingtins Thu 27-Jun-13 17:31:47

sad I'm sorry Picardy. I don't know if having that information will make you feel better or worse. Have you had karyotyping done? (not sure if that would be how they detect a translocation) If not I would push to get the bloods taken now because they take an age to come back (8 weeks or so) and if you did them now then you could have the information at your appointment rather than having another long wait for results.

donttrythisathome Fri 28-Jun-13 00:22:18

Hi everyone.

Sorry I've been quiet. Been getting back after 10 from work every night this week. And I think they are going to block me in a promotion application. V fed up and want to resign immediately.

I'd love to comment but am just exhausted but want to check in.

Picardy, August sounds a long time. Why can't they see us IMMEDIATELY. It is so frustrating. I hope they have some good advice for you.

I am clueless on all of this for someone who has had 3 mcs. I really need to swot up.

I am still testing positive for pregnancy but I was told to wait another week. Given a long spiel about the risks of another ERPC - fertility/Ashermans etc. Funny I was never told these risks for the first one. Every bloody doctor tells you a different thing. They haven't a clue do they, really?

Frustrated.

donttrythisathome Fri 28-Jun-13 00:26:38

Sorry, that was rushed and me me me. Picardy I am really sorry. I looked up the condition. My heart goes out to you. flowers

PicardyThird Fri 28-Jun-13 08:49:32

Thanky, Baking and Donttry. Am still trying to absorb it - dh is away until Sun evening and dc2's daycare is shut today so am trying to entertain a 5yo and do some work as well as making parts of dc1's school open day, so no real time to absorb. Really distressed at the thought of my little boy, though - my would-have-been ds3 sad It's the first mc where I've found out the sex and it makes it even more real somehow, iyswim.

donttry, sorry things are tough and the drs are frustrating. How long is it again since your mc?
Have rung gynae about getting bloods done for karyotyping ahead of time. I don't mind the wait too much - they offered us an appt for mid-July but we are away. Plus if tests need doing the interval allows time for that.

squizita Fri 28-Jun-13 09:20:08

Hi
Sorry I've been away. Work is mad at the moment in every sense from someone who was leaving messing with my spreadsheets to getting bitten breaking up a fight between small girls (always the bitterest of fights).

Picardy Sorry to hear you might have a translocation. Hold on to that might and also that most translocations don't completely wipe out fertility (according to the books I've read). You have DCs so hopefully the news will not be hopeless, and if you do have it, it will be one of those where there is still fertility. Mega prayers and crossed fingers.

Baking hugs and nothing but admiration for your strength at this difficult time. Whatever way the future takes you, I hope you will do amazingly.

Donttrythis Sorry to hear you're still in limbo. How frustrating! As for their advice - do ask for a second opinion if you are frightened. Asherman's is EXTREMELY rare. Don't let them scare you. Modern ERPCs are gentler than old fashioned D&Cs. Think about C sections - women have several kids by C section that is a WAY more intrusive procedure surgically with lots of risks.

As for me... waiting for the bloods getting nervous as I do every week. Feeling a bit of a failure. 35th birthday no baby, no promotion so can't even pass it off in public as career b*tch. hmm Oh well, could be worse, I have a secure job, a fella and a house lots of people cannot say that in this day and age.

...a nurse friend told me of someone whose hand swelled up like a balloon after a human bite. This one did not break the skin but now paranoid LOL! grin If my typing gets messy it will be my giant swollen hand!

teaandchocolate Fri 28-Jun-13 10:01:27

donttry sorry you're having such a rubbish time. I just wanted to say that I've had 2 erpcs and a csection and since all that I've had a sis scan which looked for adhesions etc and all was absolutely fine. Obviously they could see my csection scar but there doesn't appear to be any issues from the 2 erpcs. So please don't worry. As Squiz said Ashermans is very rare and erpcs are pretty gentle now. Not sure if this is an option but I had my last one done privately so a consultant did it.

Picardy I do feel for you. Its so hard. My 2nd mc was tested and we found out it was a boy with triploidy. Reassuring in that its not supposed to reoccur (although I still had another mc) but very weird to know the sex and it did make it more real. I always try to think of my mc as a bunch of cells rather than a 'baby' but that's much harder when you know the sex. I'm afraid I don't know anything about that condition but push to see a genetic counsellor and get the tests. I'm sure because you've got 2 DCs any problems cannot be insurmountable.

Squiz how did you get bitten??! Where do you work??! Sorry you're feeling down. It will happen for you though I'm sure. All the women who started the rmc thread seem to have gone on to have babies. But i grant you its shit journey and you're entitled to moan!!

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

My newest worry is since reading via google that after a mmc the fetus shrinks a week for every week it stays in there I've realised I must have lost my 1st one at 10 weeks which means I've not passed my own personal 'danger zone'. DH thinks I need to stop googling and he's probably right. Last night I had a banging headache and managed to find a discussion on headaches being a sign of mc...argghh!!!

squizita Fri 28-Jun-13 10:16:14

Tea... DR GOOGLE IS AN EVIL MASTERMIND... stay away, stay away!

teaandchocolate Fri 28-Jun-13 10:42:39

I know, I know....its like a compulsion!!

Bakingtins Fri 28-Jun-13 13:46:55

Tea step away from Dr Google. That's an order.

LandsN Fri 28-Jun-13 13:59:25

Tea don't do it Hun as for the headaches I had them for a couple of weeks was even sick with them at about 10 weeks but my midwife assured me it is a side affect of pregnancy it's due to hormones increasing do try not to worry to much mine stopped as quick as they started xx

jimijack Fri 28-Jun-13 14:13:25

Dear ladies,
I have been lurking on here, watching, crying and wishing along with you all.
I really want to offer you all hope but dont want to cause offence or upset, i know i was incredibly sensitive when this was happening to me.

If someone had come on here and told me what i am about to tell you, it would have given me such courage and hope for a very uncertain future. (I would also have thought in my head "fuck off, this only happens in magazines or in soaps")
So here it is, shortened version.

We had been ttc almost constantly for the last 13 years.
7 miscarriages to my name thus far.
All the tests at the expert centre at Liverpool revealed nothing. No reasons, no treatement, no hope.
I even miscarried while there while having hormone injections, asprin,industrial strength FA and monitoring.
After 3 years of trying and 2 miscarriages we concieved our son. Miraculously, we didnt do anything, he just happened. He is 10 now!

5 more miscarrieges over the next few years,finally, at age 42 i went and got the pill, that was it, 5th miscarriage only weeks previously we made the decision and that was that. No more.
Waited for my period in order to take the damned pill, it never arrived. Felt awful, very unwell and logically thought i must have retained products of conception or an infection.

Turns out i was pregnant again.

So, i planned that as soon as the bleeding started/symptoms stopped i would go and have a D&C/ERCP or whatever. (never had one before). That way i could have it on my days off from work, then back to work all done & dusted, no one need know anything.
Because i knew that i would again miscarry, i always do, and always will.

Hmmm...My gorgeous miracle is sitting up in front of me playing with his toys aged 5 months. I cant take my eyes off him, i cant believe he is here, i cant beleive that i have him.

Dont give up girls, dont give in, keep going, keep going keep going.
Love to you all xxxxxx

Polka2 Fri 28-Jun-13 14:22:55

Jimi what an amazing story - thank you so much for sharing it and as you say it does sound like something off a soap, incredible and I wish you and your 2 DC the most happiness in the world. The body is certainly an incredibly mystifying thing!

Had a heart to heart with DH and I think we're going to pool resources and opt for trying Raj Rai privately and fingers crossed something magic happens.

Tea put some oven gloves on(so you can't have a sneaky google search) and keep away from Dr Google!!

Picardy I hope you're coping ok as I've never heard of what you're going through but hope you getting the support and advice needed to make things clearer. Hugs.

donttrythisathome Fri 28-Jun-13 16:07:15

Tea, so glad you had a lovely scan, and headaches can obviously be for anything. Oven gloves a brilliant idea ha ha.

Baking, hope you are feeling a bit better, although in a way it must be a relief to just leave it all out after holding it together when the student was there. What did social worker say about adoption.

Squiz, what age were the vampiresses who bit you. Poor thing, as if you didn't have enough to cope with.

Lands, delighted you are 22 weeks!! Great news and an inspiration.

Polka, that's a big decision, and one not easily made. Glad you got there with it.

Welcome to the other newbies (d'ya hear me, sounding like an oldtimer)

blimey - it sounds like things are moving for you too. Positive vibes going your way.

I got a negative HPT this morning and I was THRILLED!!! Ha, that's a turn up for the books, being thrilled about. Going to get a scan if I can next week, but in the meantime will take OPKs and hope I ovulate. I have EWCM for ages, but docs said not signs of ov if BFP.

I'm away for the weekend so have a good, or at least bearable one. xx

teaandchocolate Fri 28-Jun-13 19:03:19

Thanks everyone. I know I'm a neurotic nutter but I know you all understand! Lands thanks for coming back to reassure me once again!!

Jimi your story is amazing. I think I followed your thread last year and it was just as I was going through my last mc so was really inspiring. I reckon most recurrent miscarriers would probably end up with a baby if they keep going but its just having the strength to do that!

dontry yey for the bfn (whoever thought we'd say that...).

Polka glad you've for a plan. Dr Rai is supposed to be really good and hopefully you'll be able to get a bit done on the nhs through your GP too? I know Baking did lots that way.

squizita Sat 29-Jun-13 10:03:59

Jimi - lovely story! Thrilled for you! Thanks for sharing, as you say it's a hopeful story.

Blood results back... I'm normal. Well, my blood is hahaha!

Bakingtins Sat 29-Jun-13 17:09:24

Squiz fab news! Does that mean you are signed off and free to go forth and multiply?

Jimi's story is lovely, but also the reason this is all so difficult. How do you know that it won't be "next time" that it works out? How many "next times" can you put yourself through? It just makes no sense that people can miscarry so many times, they can't find what is wrong, and yet they manage to carry to term sometimes. I would find either end of the spectrum (a diagnosis and a treatment plan, or the news that I'm never going to succeed) relatively easy to cope with. Vaguely hopeful stats for success but with no guarantee you're not always going to be in the unlucky 30% is a headf**k.

PicardyThird Sun 30-Jun-13 06:25:01

Squiz, great news! And for you, donttry. smile

Jimi, thank you for sharing your story, and I am so pleased everything worked out for you. I do agree with Baking - AFAIUI, if the translocation is confirmed that is exactly the situation we will be facing (have faced all along, but ykwim) - success is possible, and indeed we have been hugely blessed twice, but with the very real probability of having to go through loss after loss to get there. Certainly from where I am with this, it feels an impossible situation - we never know whether next time might be the time things all go right, or - not.

Tea, hand-holding also so you can't google flowers

squizita Sun 30-Jun-13 15:42:59

4-6 month wait for men in case it comes back. But as this coincides with my st Mary's testing it isn't too bad.

squizita Sun 30-Jun-13 15:43:50

For me. Not men. Men trying to conceive may be waiting a long time!!

Bakingtins Sun 30-Jun-13 17:23:48

grin

Polka2 Mon 01-Jul-13 13:26:00

Quick dash message to say that I've booked my appt for Raj Rai in 2 weeks time - it says in the blurb that you should try to avoid getting/being pregnant until after the 2nd appt (ie when all the results are in). I know I'm being stooopid but I'm anxious I will miss a potential fertile window following a mc by doing this but also know, who the hell am I kidding?!

Hope everyone else is ok, apologies for me me msg!

xXjunebugXx Mon 01-Jul-13 14:03:53

Hi ladies, so sorry I have been so quiet. Work is busy right now and with being back at work have less time online.

Just reading back a little, I am sorry Picardy. Sounds like such a tough time. Please don't lose hope ((()))

Donttry, gosh hun, still in limbo sad Limbo is a horrible place, my heart goes out to you xx

Squizz what bit you? Are you OK now?

Jimi, lovely story thanks for sharing. So much heartache. so glad you have your rainbow x

Tea, fab news about your scan.

Sorry if I am leaving anyone out.

LateBloomer414 Mon 01-Jul-13 21:24:48

Happy July. Got my GP referral for the RMC- she couldn't book directly for St Mary's so I'll have to navigate getting an appt myself and it's looking like October before they'll see me. I can get an appt in 2 weeks time at the Royal Free Hosp in Belsize Park. Any advice? Would you wait for St Mary's or get the ball rolling with an unknown? DH's surgery is next week and he'll be hospitalised for 2 weeks+ so I'll be on my own for the appt which I'm ok with. I'm ringing the reproductive health center at the hospital where he's being treated about banking his sperm before the surgery or at least before the chemo starts. I haven't even had AF yet after ERPC. There's just too much going on confused

Bakingtins Tue 02-Jul-13 08:14:40

LB I would clarify what the situation is re referral from the GP. It would be great to get the initial tests done ASAP, and if they find a problem then you are ready to go whenever you and DH are ready. If they don't, do you still have the option of St Mary's, or is that then " you've had your referral, that's all we can do" as someone else was told recently. Thread is something about patient choice if you have a look.

squizita Tue 02-Jul-13 09:33:52

Latebloomer - I would query that too. It sounds like you're in area for st Mary's! GPS can be quite clueless... Mine said we were out of area then the hospital kindly informed her we weren't.

I got bitten breaking up a fight between 2 small, girly girls. It was a hair pulling, biting, scratching one of the kind little girls can have... Mistaken identity. She thought my hand was the other girls! Not very macho haha!

butterfly86 Tue 02-Jul-13 11:35:39

Hi everyone hope you are all ok? Just a quick one as I'm at work I'll catch up properly when I can but just want to say fab news tea! So pleased for you smile

Sorry for me me me post but just got my progesterone result I had it done 7 days after I got a smiley on cb digital but I was really bleeding heavily when I got the positive. My result has been marked by the gp as satisfactory no further action required it was 1.3! I dont know if the bleeding has given an innacurate reslult of I've just got practically no progesterone.

LateBloomer414 Tue 02-Jul-13 20:19:26

Butterfly, what does 1.3 indicate?is it low progesterone? sorry, I'm still remedial when it comes to all this stuff.
Squiz- do you work in a prison or a school?!?!? Hope the violence subsides and your hand heals! Thank you and Baking for the suggestion to find out more from my GP. I rang her back and she basically encouraged me to game the system. Since St Mary's isn't on the electronic booking network she's booked me in for an appt elsewhere while we wait for them to call me back and find out how long the wait is. We decided to switch to the Royal London as DH's cancer care is through the Barts trust. The oncologists are trying to get us scheduled to freeze and bank his sperm before surgery- we figured being in the same hospital group would be smoother to coordinate for when we want to use it.
Hoping everyone else is doing well!

Bakingtins Tue 02-Jul-13 21:04:22

What is the normal range for 21 day progesterone, butterfly ? I would think if you were bleeding it's difficult to draw any conclusions from that to apply to a "normal" cycle. What did they have to say about it?

Good work, LB !

butterfly86 Tue 02-Jul-13 23:17:00

I think anything over 10 indicates ovulation has occurred but over 20 is desirable and I think over 30 to sustain a pregnancy. Maybe the bleeding cocked it all up but I did have a + opk on day 19 so I must have ovulated? The receptionist just said it had been marked as satisfactory.

Lb I hope you manage to get everything coordinated its great that they are going to bank his sperm at least you don't have the worry of not having the option to ttc after all this awful bit is over. Fingers crossed everything goes smoothly for you.

teaandchocolate Wed 03-Jul-13 19:36:53

Hi everyone!!

Once again I'm so sorry I've been quiet on here recently. Feel like I'm neglecting you all. I've just been feeling so pants. Sick, exhausted, banging headaches & turned into an insomniac which doesn't help. Anyway, I'm not moaning - if this works out will be all worth it.

Butterfly I agree you should push for further investigation as I'm not sure why they're not concerned about bleeding during ovulation. I don't really know about progesterone levels. Could you see a specialist rather than just a GP?

Latebloomer glad you're getting sorted. I went to the royal free for my first scans and erpc and wasn't hugely impressed to be honest. Although I'm sure the consultants are good. I would always rather see a rmc specialist where possible. I've seen a few general gynae consultants and often feel that i know more about rmc than they do!!

News is I had another scan today. Was supposed to be next week but was moved as clinic was cancelled. All looked fab!! Baby measured 40.9mm so bigger than dates and although he couldn't do nuchal test properly he said the fluid looked small. Next scan is proper nuchal at 12 weeks. I'm in a quandary about whether to book a private scan alongside nhs (want nhs one as want to keep seeing the consultant as I really like him but he doesn't scan privately). Private ones are more accurate and have better equipment. But is it worth having two scans right next to each other? And will nhs one be better as a consultant is doing it? I'm just rather paranoid about chromosomal defects as I know one of my mc had one & pretty sure at least one other did too. And a friend lost her baby at 20 wks for same issue so I'm obsessed with trying to see problems early.

I'm so sorry if this is an inappropriate conversation for this board and I really hope none of you are upset or offended about this. I just don't feel ready for a pregnancy board really and I know that you'll understand my paranoia about abnormalities. Please just ignore this post though if you'd rather not discuss.

Hello to everyone else too!! Hope you're all doing ok.

orangebowl Wed 03-Jul-13 22:46:59

Hey tea. Fab update smile. Being quick as exhausted and off to bed (33 weeks today!) but just wanted to say why not do private scan at 14 weeks? That's what we did and it helped me as I was getting worried again by then. Sonographer at that scan was even able to tell us it was a boy!
X

LandsN Thu 04-Jul-13 07:17:32

So glad it's all looking good tea I second having scan at 14 weeks I had one at 16 weeks which was whe I was told it was a boy but also gave me something to look forward to and made time pass quicker and gave me a paranoia stop gap between 12 and 20 weeks x school 33 weeks that's amazing I am 24 weeks Monday and feel like its dragging on the plus side midwife next week so all good hope everyone else is ok x

teaandchocolate Thu 04-Jul-13 10:12:59

Thanks Lands and School and so exciting you're both getting so far now!

I've just booked a private scan for 2 days before the nhs one. Probably totally unnecessary but its only money and I'm hoping it will be reassuring! To be honest I'll probably end up paying for another private scan at 16 weeks as I can't imagine I'll be able to hang on until 20 weeks...if I ever get that far! I do hate the thought of paying a fortune for the private tests only to be told there's no hb.

Bakingtins Thu 04-Jul-13 11:58:43

Glad it's all going well, Tea.

I have RMC appt this afternoon, have already been welling up just thinking about it. Definitely a no mascara day.

teaandchocolate Thu 04-Jul-13 12:37:13

Good luck Baking. I'm hope you get some answers and reassurance or at least a plan of action. Let us know how you get on.

LandsN Thu 04-Jul-13 13:32:52

Arrrgh back at hospital again midwife thinks my waters might b leaking just waiting to see doctor either that or I just loosing all controll over my bladder a bit early x

teaandchocolate Thu 04-Jul-13 13:37:46

Oh no Lands!! How scary. I hope everything is ok. How longs it been going on for? Keeping everything crossed for you.

LandsN Thu 04-Jul-13 13:41:29

Only today baby is fine heartbeat fine moving etc they have said it could just b my bodys way of expelling excess water just got to be examined by doctor but no pain or bleeding is all a good sign x

teaandchocolate Thu 04-Jul-13 13:43:28

Ok that all sounds promising. It is all so stressful this baby making malarky. Keep us posted. Rest as much as you can.

LandsN Thu 04-Jul-13 13:48:19

Thanks tea I will do I know I feel like a right moaner lol must confess though I googled it and scared the living daylights out of myself so glad they insisted on me coming in x

teaandchocolate Thu 04-Jul-13 13:53:08

When will they know if its amniotic fluid? Are they keeping you in? I feel like you should just lie down and cross your legs!!

LandsN Thu 04-Jul-13 13:59:16

They are going to do a internal examnation to see where its coming from and I suppose decide from there they said I will probably have another scan too which I wont object too I might just admitt myself for the next 16 weeks to be on safe side and yeah agree I feel like crossing my legs especially as I can hear somone in labour eeek !!! X

teaandchocolate Thu 04-Jul-13 14:12:56

Glad you're being looked after. Keep us posted. I'm sure listening to someone's labour is the last thing you need!!

LandsN Thu 04-Jul-13 18:07:49

I am home all is good apparently it's excess water which I have never heard of but all is ok thank god and I think they either moved the woman or she had baby but it stopped very soon made my eyes water though x

Bakingtins Thu 04-Jul-13 18:22:45

So I discovered what comes next in the MC1= you were unlucky, MC2= you were very unlucky, MC3= you were extremely unlucky series. MC4= we don't know what is wrong and we can't help you.
We got the cytogenetics back, baby was perfect. I am a serial killer of healthy embryos. sad
There are no further tests they can offer, no treatment other than what we've already tried. They will scan me regularly if I get pregnant again but that's it.
I asked about NK cells and got the standard "it's all very controversial and experimental at this stage" we can't recommend you pursue that.
DH says he can't cope with the emotional trauma of another MC confused and I'm not willing to try again unless there is something to tip the odds further in our favour.

Of the 70% of RMCers that succeed, do you think that's because prev losses were chromosonally? Have any of you who are pregnant had no explanation and lost at least one normal baby?

Bakingtins Thu 04-Jul-13 18:41:31

LandsN glad to hear you have the all clear!

Bakingtins Thu 04-Jul-13 18:43:08

because previous losses were chromosonally abnormal ?

teaandchocolate Thu 04-Jul-13 19:07:15

Baking I'm sorry the appointment was so disappointing.

I guess the only real next steps would be immunology testing but I totally understand your hesitation with all the issues that surrounds it and the money.

I don't know if I've lost chromosomally normal babies as only one was tested. I think maybe my issue is I get pregnant too quickly. I guess that's not relevant to you if you know 100% that the baby was fine

Would you consider seeing one of the nk specialists at least for a first appointment to get a feel for it?

There's also St Mary's to consider which can do teg testing and apparently finds clotting issues when noone else can.

Sorry I can't be more insightful.

Justonemoretime Thu 04-Jul-13 19:11:36

Bakingtins: so sorry that you have not had better news. http://www.fertility-academy.co.uk/contact-us/ do NK tests, I have been thinking about getting this test. I guess you need to process the latest info and then decide whether you'd rather regret not trying or not one more time. I think the total cost would be something like £800 with all the consultations etc.

PG ladies, good news! Fingers (and legs!) crossed things proceed well.

It's two weeks since my ERPC, hoping the spotting is almost over. It's faded and no longer red (sorry TMI) and very infrequent. Last few times it's gone on for months and got worse, I had retained products after both MCs and repeat procedures etc. Hopefully this time it has worked first time. Looking forward to a bath and a swim and not having to wear big pants etc! smile

Apparently my appt at St Mary's is 'being processed' so hopefully I will hear from them soon.

Got congratulated on my pregnancy yesterday. Don't know who felt more awkward.... sad

Best wishes to all.
xx

PicardyThird Fri 05-Jul-13 06:29:55

Morning all <bleary>

Good news from the pg people. LandsN, will keep fingers crossed for you. Tea, I'm going to be a bit of a voice of dissent and say IIWY I would avoid having two scans so close together, simply because any discrepancies in the results could worry you where it's merely a case of differences in the equipment/the lie of the baby or whatever. I do absolutely understand the worry, though flowers

Oh, Baking sad Am really sorry that things weren't more enlightening at the appt. We are now, it seems, off down a different road, but in your situation I think I might want to go to St Mary's or look into the immunology stuff - in the context of a lot of reading around.

Thoughts to all.

Polka2 Fri 05-Jul-13 09:14:10

Morning all on the start of such a sunshiney weekend! (note: I'm trying to be really positive!)

Baking I'm really sorry the results didn't show anything at all. I concur with the others that if you can scrape together some pennies to try and get the immunology tests done at least (Siobhan Quenby in Coventry does it for about £230 I believe) as the emotional trauma of it all must be putting you and your other half through the ringer. Huge hugs on whatever you decide.

God Justintime that must of been really awkward for you both, awful.

I had a scan to make sure that I'd mc everything which it, and bloods, showed I had although it had them head scratching as I haven't bleed much and my lining was still quite thick - another curve ball my bloomin' body does it seems. Thank god I'd already come to grips with this 3rd mc or sitting in the waiting room surrounded by pg women of various stages would have been hideous - who on earth designs these things and I can't understand how the nurses etc haven't said/done something about it, its just awful.

Bakingtins Fri 05-Jul-13 13:29:07

The repro immunology seems very open ended. I'm going to ask more about it on the TTC on prednisolone thread, but the impression from reading Dr Beer's book is there are a lot of conditions under that general heading.
Dr Quenby charges £360 to be seen and have a biopsy for NK cells, but it's also a day off work and travel to Coventry. It doesn't seem like I'd get any support from the local drs for steroid treatment, much less IVG or intralipid.

Polka2 Fri 05-Jul-13 15:51:38

Oh, baking you've obviously done your homework on it all and I understand what you mean - its the ongoing costs etc not only the first appointment.

When I was sat in the hospital yesterday waiting for my scan I was morbidly fascinated by the shapes and sizes and ages of the pg women - I really had to sit on the horrible me of the 'well if they can get/stay pg why the hell can't I', not constructive or helpful and I don't begrudge anyone else happiness but it certainly makes me wonder when I've had 18mnths of very very little alcohol, 1 cup of tea a day, acupuncuture and reflexology coming out of my ears and my body is STILL playing silly buggers - agggggh!

Justonemoretime Fri 05-Jul-13 17:45:36

Polka that nasty little jealous voice is hard to keep down, isn't it. My sister is 7 months and it's pretty tough being around her, even though I love her sad I really can't understand why so many hospitals still have the same waiting room for everyone at all stages. Cruel.

Just heard that I have got an appointment at St Mary's smile for October sad (seems ages, but only 3 months away). We're also on the list for any cancellations, so fingers crossed. Just want to get the bloods drawn as the wait for results is another month on top of that. Advised not to ttc until then. I know I need to wait at least 1 cycle anyway, but so annoying. You just know when you are trying it takes ages but when you're not it just happens. Still, I start my new job in September which I am looking forward to so I need to hang on long enough to get maternity pay etc. which I would have missed out on bug time if the last pg had worked out!

Have a good weekend, all! x

Justonemoretime Fri 05-Jul-13 17:46:48

Oops meant big time smile

Justonemoretime Sat 06-Jul-13 12:20:38

Got BFN, so ERPC seems to have worked. On the road to normality... smile

squizita Sun 07-Jul-13 19:51:56

Hi all. Glad to hear the ERPC worked Justonemoretime.

I'm getting stressed still no AF. Wouldn't be worried with a normal MC but the word on the forums with molar is it comes back v soon after you're under 100 hcg. (Though I wonder if some people have molar bleeds and get confused... A cycle only starts under 100 hcg surely? So you'd need at least 21 days from that point?).

orangebowl Sun 07-Jul-13 21:49:45

Hey Squiz. I know it's not exactly the same but after my last erpc I didn't get my period back.. Was referred to a consultant about that cos I was so worried.. I started after about 3 months getting literally smallest spotting every 4 weeks ish.. And anyway, 6 months post erpc I got pregnant (with this baby in belly currently kicking me and nearly 34 weeks!) so was obviously ovulating.. They kept telling me I probably was but I didn't really believe them!

Wish our bodies could be programmed like a computer hey? X

Bakingtins Mon 08-Jul-13 08:12:35

Justone glad to hear you are back on track with a BFN and an appointment date.
Polka I'm sorry you had to sit with all the bumps. It doesn't take much imagination to think what that does to someone who has just miscarried.

DH and I had a big talk and cry together yesterday. I think we're both absolutely agreed that we are not trying again on the basis suggested by the RMC clinic, i.e. that we just do the cyclogest/aspirin/folic acid again. It's clear to me that there is some undiagnosed problem since there is nothing wrong with the babies. DH has had enough and is ready to stop, though I don't think he will insist if I really want to pursue the NK cells thing. I'm not sure I want to. Even if I get a diagnosis and treatment it only gets us back to square 1 of TTC again. I need to find out what the success rate is with treatment, since presumably there are still no guarantees.
We've had a lovely weekend in the sunshine, been out spotting 'Gromits' in Bristol with the boys and watched AM win Wimbledon, and I still feel crap sad

Justonemoretime Mon 08-Jul-13 16:37:10

Baking I'm so sorry to hear that you are going through such an awful time. I really do feel for you and your DH; I hope you both find some peace.

nearlyreadytopop Mon 08-Jul-13 18:02:08

hi, I was wondering if I could join your thread.
I have just had my third mc. I have an appointment in a few weeks time to begin tests of dh and myself. I'm just wondering what to expect? I'm still in hospital and the doctor mentioned possible genetic reasons and that with age the chances of this increase (I'm 32).
so confused by all this, I'm very very lucky to have a 2yr old at home who was a very straightforward pregnancy.
sad

Justonemoretime Mon 08-Jul-13 18:32:23

Hi nearly,
So sorry to hear about your losses, welcome to the thread. The tests they will do are for a range of issues. These are to do with blood clotting and other issues. They will take about 10 test-tubes worth, so don't be alarmed. I found this book very helpful in understanding what they test for:
www.amazon.co.uk/Miscarriage-What-every-Woman-needs/dp/0752837575/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373304263&sr=1-1&keywords=lesley+regan

My DH and I both had our kayotypes done (genetic tests) because there was a possibility that there was a translocation lurking (we were both clear). This was a blood test, not invasive, but it takes about 6 weeks to get the results. Frustrating but it can't be done any faster, apparently.

Have you been referred to a RCM clinic? It seems to take about 3 months to get an appointment, so, if you are feeling up to it, ask your GP to start that process now so that you can get the best care you can when and if you feel ready to try again.

In the mean time, I hope that your recovery is swift and uncomplicated, and that you have lots of people to look after you.

Best wishes, xx

nearlyreadytopop Mon 08-Jul-13 18:53:25

hi just, thank you for the info.
I think its time to educate myself on all matters mc so I will start with the book.
can I ask what a rcm centre is?

Justonemoretime Mon 08-Jul-13 18:56:42

No problem. RMC is Recurrent Miscarriage Clinic. My mistake! Sorry for any extra confusion!blush

nearlyreadytopop Mon 08-Jul-13 18:58:15

ah sorry, really should have worked that okblush im blaming the morphine

squizita Tue 09-Jul-13 09:03:53

School thanks! smile The hospital said similar- takes 1-3 months, can be all over, but don't worry! Phew.

nearlyreadytopop Sorry you find yourself here. And sorry your doc has worried you about age. The genetic/conception "milestone" (exaggerated by non-gynie docs in areas where 30-something-mums are rare, the media etc') is thirty five - with the impact only becoming significant at 39-40. I have had 3 MCs and just turned 35. The specialists at the EPU were at pains to stress that it was highly unlikely my problems were age related. I am quite militant about this as it seems to be a hurtful and hope-destroying throwaway thing so many docs just say whatever age (have heard it said to women in their late 20s before!!!). As Justonemoretime states they test for lots of reasons - blood clotting issues, karotyping etc'.

Bakingtins Tue 09-Jul-13 11:27:03

Hi Nearly. I'm sorry you are going through this again. Life is very unfair. I agree with the others that your age is not very likely to be a big factor and that it's not a helpful thing for the doctor to say.
If you have the opportunity, ask them to test "products" this time (sorry - horrible word). This is the only way you are going to find out if it is chromosome issues that are causing your miscarriages. They will probably do a karyotype (genetic testing on a blood sample) of you and your DH to make sure neither of you carry any defective chromosomes, but most chromosome problems in the baby arise as the egg and sperm meet and are a chance happening rather than coming from you. A normal parental karyotype does not rule out a chromosome cause for the miscarriages, though makes it less likely it will recur.
I'm feeling bitter about the way chromosomes are blamed for everything at the moment. I've had 4 miscarriages and it took until the 4th one for them to do cytogenetics on the baby, and then only because I insisted and peed through a sieve for days sad. MC4 was normal, and since it was the same as the others, probably 1, 2 and 3 were also normal. They have not come up with any answers for me on the NHS tests, and it's worth being aware from the outset that they don't find anything in 50% of cases.
There's a suggestion in a book I read that they should test the products in a first MC then the people who MC due to some random chromosome thing are reassured it will likely be ok next time, and the people who actually have a problem that caused them to lose a normal baby can be identified and tested early, before they've gone through the misery of multiple losses. It will never happen here as it would financially cripple the NHS, but you can see the logic.
Anyway - expect to be asked lots of questions and then required to donate a lot of blood. I had a scan mid-cycle to check for PCOS and that my uterine lining was ok, and bloods at various points - some day 2 of cycle for hormone levels, some needed to be 6 weeks post miscarriage for the clotting issues etc. DH gets away with one tube for karyotyping.

Bakingtins Tue 09-Jul-13 11:40:21

Ladies, walk with me through this 70% thing, because I just don't get it.

Am I right in saying in cases where a woman has had 3 MC in a row and no cause is found (50% of the RMC population) there is a 70% chance of success with the next pregnancy?
Chances of a random chromosome problem in a pregnancy seems to be about 15%, which gives you the background miscarriage rate. That means chances of 3 chromosome problems in a row is 0.34%. Actual RMC rate is about 1%, so a third of the RMC population are truly just unlucky. Half of the RMCers will have another cause found.
34 unlucky women/50 nothing wrong RMCers = 68%.
I think I just found my answer. The ones where it all goes ok next time were probably the ones who had genuinely been repeatedly unlucky in previous pregnancies and with a good embryo can carry to term.

Does that make sense? That suggests to me since I am in the 16% with no cause and no chromosome problems I will always be in the 30% who miscarry again unless some other cause is identified and treated.

Polka2 Tue 09-Jul-13 13:50:22

I'm RUBBISH at maths baking but kinda see your logic..... I think;-)

squizita Tue 09-Jul-13 14:02:11

Baking I am not sure it's that simple due to the fact as you say it's impossible to test every losee - I've read (in Regan's book and 'Coming To Term') that after 4 or 5, chance of success if no cause found falls to about 55%: covering all women who have had 4 or 5 but are undiagnosed. It was suggested in the books that this often means undiagnosed conditions which make MC more likely but don't mean a MC every time- hence the lower success rate.

And chromasomal isn't always the same - my partial molar triplody is a definite one-off type thing. So if I had 2 sporadic MCs down to chromasomes and this, it could muddy the statistical waters - and I guess this also happens?

Also some sporadics are not chromasomal (just as with RMC it is used when they just don't know) which fogs it up further. I wonder how many women who have had 1 or 2 MCs have conditions and either wanted a small family and/or were just very lucky that in that 50/50 gamble they didn't lose 3 times in a row?

teaandchocolate Tue 09-Jul-13 15:12:05

Hi everyone.

Baking I am very impressed with your reasoning and mathmatical ability!! I agree with Squiz that its not always simple. Some women with conditions that cause rmc won't necessarily suffer a mc with each pregnancy. Even the worst ones have a 80-90% mc rate which means that some women will be the lucky 10%. Although from what I've read (in Lesley Regan's book) there are often other symptoms which indicate clotting disorders (like bleeding, low birth rate, prem birth, pre-eclampsia etc). Some conditions aren't easy to diagnose. Do you know if your bloods were tested within 2 hours as per Regan's advice?

I read recently (on here or another forum) about someone who had multiple mc and had a condition diagnosed but because she didn't realise she was pregnant didn't take the medication, and still managed to have a healthy pregnancy. I'm not sure exactly how NK cells work and whether they can fluctuate or whether they always mean mc. Have you read 'Is your body baby friendly' by Alan Beer? Its on my list of what to do if this pregnancy fails.

Nearly so sorry for what you're going through. Hope you're feeling ok today. Everyone has given really good advice so I don't have much to add other than I agree push to get your (& DH) bloods taken for karyotyping asap as it doesn't matter whether you have pregnancy hormones in your body and the results take ages to come back.

Sorry once again for not being on here much recently. I feel a bit like I'm in limbo-land. Not properly pregant yet but not in the rmc zone (as I am trying to think positively). Have a private 12 week scan on Saturday so should know then whether this pregnancy is viable. Terrified already but not long to go.....

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

Bakingtins Tue 09-Jul-13 16:24:05

Yes, I read Alan Beer's book. If anything it made it worse because my impression before reading it was there is only NK cells to worry about if there is nothing on the standard tests, but in fact it's way more complicated than that. I've been chatting to some of the ladies on the "TTC on prednisolone" thread and it seems though a proportion do ok just on steroids, the others have to have intralipid/IVG which are even more controversial and many of them are several years into treatment with no baby. Their experiences vary from "I saw one person, spent £350 and had a baby" to " I've spend thousands, trailed back and forth to London for 2 yrs and no further forward" No guarantees, as with all of this.
I'm sure my maths is a bit simplistic (never did very well on my stats courses at uni!) but I'm so sick of the 70% figure being bandied around and nobody knows or seems bothered about finding out WHY some women are ok after multiple miscarriages, or why 30% are just going to miscarry again and again.
I doubt that my bloods were tested in 2 hours as the GP took them, but I was on aspirin anyway and it made no difference. They're not offering me heparin without a diagnosed clotting problem.
I'm sorry for ranting, I'm just really fed up with the whole thing and feel that the medics have nothing to offer but platitudes. I think we've reached the end of our particular road with TTC, but that makes me deeply unhappy and uncertain what the future holds for us. My "big family" has been part of my life-plan for so many years. I'm very grateful for my boys, particularly DS2 since he came along after the miscarriages started and looking back it seems he survived very much against the odds, but there is a big gap in my family, and too many memorial trees in the garden.

Tea best of luck for your scan. I hope after that you'll be able to relax a little.

squizita Tue 09-Jul-13 19:38:09

Is it 70% per pregnancy or 70% ever? Because come to think of it I have heard it used both ways.

Lesley Regan seems to say its per pregnancy.

Which would explain the poor women who go through 5+ then suddenly succeed.

squizita Tue 09-Jul-13 19:57:39

....in other news, AF may be in the building! On the one hand, so glad to be 'working' again. On the other, wiping and seeing it 1st time after a loss (even an ERPC one) makes me a bit queaze.

Been reading that thread where all those mums have been comforting the OP with their stories of 1st DC after RMC. One to bookmark for sad days for me!

PicardyThird Tue 09-Jul-13 20:25:31

Baking - FWIW, the sense I got from Coming to Term - which I found an excellent read for the most part - was that it is indeed more complicated than that, almost inextricably complicated in some cases. My own experience is also anything but straightforward - despite having had 5 mcs I have never yet reached the technical definition of RMC. I have two diagnosed clotting problems but had two children prior to diagnosis. I have two children but lost definitely one baby and perhaps more to chromosomal issues. All I really know atm, prior to seeing the geneticist, is that I have shit but not hopeless odds.
Lots and lots of empathy and unMN hugs. I am very much teetering on the brink of making that 'no more' decision, and in the dead of night it seems like the best thing in all sorts of ways, but I can't yet mentally cross that Rubicon yet. I've assumed for ages that I would have three eventually. It's so hard.

Squiz, sounds positive (although i do get the feeling on seeing the blood - love to you) Tea, still got everything crossed for you. Nearlyready, welcome and I am so sorry for what you've been through that has brought you here, although you have definitely come to the right place.

I'm a day or two late, but tested negative yesterday. confused

Bakingtins Wed 10-Jul-13 07:18:21

Read that one too! blush The fact that it seems to be "shit but not hopeless odds" is what makes it so hard. There are so many success stories that nobody can really explain. If we give up I think we will always wonder what would have happened if we tried one last time, but on the other hand we've just had enough. I've been miserable for most of the last 2 yrs, either because TTC is not working, or because I'm pregnant & terrified, or because I've MC again. Miserable people do not good parents make! It's not fair on the boys. But as you say, Picardy it's very hard to let it go.

donttrythisathome Wed 10-Jul-13 21:33:20

Hi, just checking in. I've been on holidays, and also mad busy in work.

nearlyreadytopop, sorry to hear about your losses and welcome to the thread.

Baking, maths is not my strong suit. I think that there may be undiagnosed causes which may not affect you each time, but I have not looked into it all in your depth, or any depth at all, or in fact, AT ALL.
I am sad you and Picardy feel you may be at the end of the road. It's a tough road.

I have an appointment with Dr Shehata on 16 Aug. No word back on the "products" testing.

Got my period but has lasted a week and a half so far. Think I should go for a scan to make sure no retained products. Am also fed up as haven't been sifted in for a promotion at work. Feel like going off with stress - why work so hard at something I dislike when I am not valued? Answer: money. Feel like a failure on all fronts.

Squiz, hurrah for AF.

Sorry to everyone I have not namechecked. My head is all over the place and I find it hard to keep everything straight. I am not one of the supportive ones on the thread!

squizita Thu 11-Jul-13 10:46:13

Donttry You are supportive! Don't feel bad for feeling bad, life is extra tough sometimes. flowers

Baking & Picardy such a hard time for both of you sad sending you good vibes. TBH I have suggested to DH that if (he replies says "when unless Prof Regan tells you otherwise misery-guts") we get out THB he will have to lose a couple of lb and spruce up the house because I'm seriously wondering whether I could do it again and again for a 2nd and if we want another I may well adopt. Until the tests come back I won't know. It's a hard enough situation when planning ahead with no kids yet to worry about, just managing our expectations/prognosis ourselves... I can't imagine how challenging it must be with a family to consider already.

donttrythisathome Thu 11-Jul-13 11:23:09

Ah thanks squiz. What is THB and why lose a few lbs and spruce up house (is it so you can adopt?). You might not have to go through all this at all for a second one, it might be as easy as pie! You never know - my first was a dream, no hassles at all. This could be you! I do think having a child already makes it easier not challenging, not that I want to get you down.

Purplefrogshoe Thu 11-Jul-13 11:29:29

Hi all, had my 3rd ERPC after miscarriage last week, had a horrible time in hospital, can't really face any tests at the moment but can anyone tell me what they involve? I don't know if I can do this to myself again sad

Bakingtins Thu 11-Jul-13 11:54:47

THB = take home baby (?)

Hi purplefrog I'm so sorry you are joining us, but you are very welcome. My take on the whole thing was I wanted to have the tests, if there was something that was simply treatable then we'd try again (e.g. thyroid problem or the clotting problems that can be treated with aspirin/heparin) if there was something that was untreatable and likely to recur with each pregnancy we'd give up. Unfortunately we are in the 50% that are left with no answers after the NHS tests and we've since had a 4th miscarriage, so am now back at the point of trying to decide whether to go private for the reproductive immunology testing or call it a day.
It's a very personal decision.
The standard NHS tests are likely to involve you donating an armful of blood, and your partner one tube (unfair, as in all these things) as they'll check his karyotype. You may need a uterine scan or more invasive tests to check for anatomical abnormalities - this will depend on the stage your losses occurred at and whether you've ever had a healthy pregnancy.

Squiz I don't think you need to worry about weight or sprucing up the house to consider adoption unless you/DH are morbidly obese but no reason to tell your DH that if you want the hall painted or to get him to the gym We've looked into it a bit but I think it is far from an easy option in terms of the invasiveness of the process of being approved, the reluctance of many agencies to consider potential adopters who already have birth children and the problems that many children who have ended up needing adoption come with.

I don't think having a family already makes it easier to cope with RMC, just different. You don't have the fear that you will never have children, but you do need to consider the impact on the existing family of any decisions you make.

Donttry good luck with Dr Shehata. It's crap to be passed over at work. It would help if one area of your life was going brilliantly.

squizita Thu 11-Jul-13 12:28:59

Yeah THB is lingo from other boards 'Take Home Baby'.
DH has that 'thick-set' kind of male frame where on paper he is much more overweight than he is (if that makes sense?) - muscle + beer belly on top. He's not deadly obese! grin
I know of some people who have birth children and adopted, would go to them for advice if it came to that. In terms of difficulty of kids, we both work with LAC (Looked After Children) so are familiar. DH with real bad issues, me with the whole gamut from happy to troubled.

Of course, hoping that either St Mary's will say "you have xyz, this is the treatment and % risk" and we'll know OR they'll say [^and it will be^] "you were unlucky".

squizita Thu 11-Jul-13 12:30:34

Oh... sorry if my post wasn't clear. I really don't know how much harder it would be if I already had a DC as you say, choices wouldn't just impact on me and DH but another life too.

donttrythisathome Thu 11-Jul-13 14:43:48

Purple, so sorry to hear about your mcs. I was where you are now at the start of June. How many mcs have you had? Have you any children already? I got tests after my second mc (just standard NHS ones for clitting diseases etc) which was a bloodtest, then after third mc last month tissue was sent off for karotyping (genetic testing), and I got some tests at the GP (more bloodtests). My DH has not been tested at all. I am going to Dr Shehata in Surrey for a second opinion next month (on the NHS) as he specialises in immunology I think and I have an autoimmune disease.

Ah take home baby! Thanks. Yes, sorry a decision to adopt or send squillions on treatments, or get majorly stressed/depressed about multiple mcs, or a decison to give up so your child will definitely be a n only child would of course impact on existing family so it is a different challenge rather than easier I guess. Or maybe it depends on how you feel aboiut it/your personal circumstances. I know I would have found this much harder before I had my daughter.

Glad your DH is not morbidly obese squiz!!

Bakingtins Thu 11-Jul-13 20:54:52

In other news, my private consultant phoned me today to discuss how I got on at the RMC clinic and she thinks I should see Dr Quenby, and in fact had contacted Dr Quenby on my behalf to ask her to send me information (which I had already got for myself)
Very kind of her to still be taking an interest since I've been passed back to NHS and she's not likely to see any more of my money.
So there you are, some doctors do care.

donttrythisathome Thu 11-Jul-13 22:34:35

baking, what a nice woman! NK cells do seem to be the one thing you haven't tried(can understand your reasons why). Do you know if Quenby tests these on the NHS or will you have to pay. I must look into whether Dr Shehats who I am seeing does. Unlike you I have done next to no research. I'm not sure why as I am usually researcher supreme, in fact I research for a living. All this mc stuff oddly bores the life out of me...odd odd odd.

Purplefrogshoe Thu 11-Jul-13 22:42:40

Thanks baking and donttry, i have dd who is nearly 5, i had the blood test after 2mc and all my results were ok but DH wasnt tested, they just said it was bad luck, i will make app with my GP, sorry to all in the same boat as me xx

Bakingtins Fri 12-Jul-13 08:05:06

Nobody does NK testing on the NHS. Dr Quenby does it for £360 which to see her, have a scan and the test isn't bad.

I wish I could ban the phrase 'bad luck'. What a load of old cobblers. Miscarriages happen for a reason. It might be a randomly occurring chromosome problem, and it might not happen again, but I hate the dismissiveness of saying 'you were unlucky'

purplefrog can you remember what you were tested for?

squizita Fri 12-Jul-13 08:06:23

baking That's very kind of her. I'm really glad for you.

Purplefrogshoe Fri 12-Jul-13 09:51:19

I don't know what they tested for, I'm going to ask when I see gp next week as don't think I can just TTC again and keep my fingers crossed it doesn't happen again especially as I had such a horrible time in hospital this time

Bakingtins Fri 12-Jul-13 13:20:21

I'd go armed with a list of what should have been done, my GP was pretty clueless but was happy to follow the instructions of the consultant.
I had;
Full blood count and ferritin (not so much for causes of miscarriage, just as a screen after blood loss)
Thyroid tests, t4 + tsh
Day 2 hormone tests, fsh + lh
Panel of tests for antiphospholid syndrome and clotting abnormalities and autoantibodies
TORCH screen (blood tests for infectious causes of miscarriage)
Swabs for infection
Karyotyping for me and for DH
Antimullerian hormone (not available on NHS, it's a test for PCOS and ovarian reserve)
Cytogenetics on the baby
Mid-cycle uterine scan for anatomical abnormalities, to check suitable thickness of lining and to check for PCOS

I'm sure the others will pipe up if there is something I've forgotten.

nearlyreadytopop Fri 12-Jul-13 13:50:46

tins thanks for that list. I'm due at the hospital in 6 weeks for whatever blood tests the nhs carry out for rc mc. So I will note this down and take it with me.

I had a good chat with my gp who has recommended not ttc for a few months. His logic is that I haven't had a period in 2 years or between my 3 last pregnacies so it would be good to get optimum uterine lining. I have conceived straightaway each time which is even more surprising when I was previously told I wasn't ovulating due to pcos.

I haven't heard of antimullerian test before, is it very specialised?

I'm going to wait for blood tests to come through and then get a private referral to rcmc specialist.

I hope everyone else is doing ok?
This is truely shit but I'm very glad I found you all, where would we be without mnsmile

Bakingtins Fri 12-Jul-13 13:58:41

The AMH was recommended by the consultant. I don't have any symptoms of PCOS but it's linked to male pattern balding and diabetes, both of which I have family history of. It's also useful to check ovarian reserve (as I am an old bag) which was 'satisfactory' in my case. That reassured me I'm not perimenopausal so have a little time to play with.
I was clear for PCOS but this is linked to RMC and some people have v few symptoms but still have the cysts.

Purplefrogshoe Fri 12-Jul-13 22:39:25

Thanks Baking i really dont think ive had any of these, i remember getting the hormone tests and had swaps done. this list will really help

Justonemoretime Sat 13-Jul-13 07:41:00

You know that feeling when you know a big emotional blow-out is threatening but doesn't quite come? It's my last week in my job this week, which is emotional enough, never mind all the hormones that are probably swimming around as my cycle tries to settle down. Might start a book on when (rather than if) I cry in public this week...
DH is full of hope - we have an appointment! This is good news! I'm erring more on the side of pessimism in a world seemingly full of babies and pregnant women (dreading arrival of royal baby). Feel like such a grinch!
Hope everyone else is finding peace, somehow. xx

Ladybee Sat 13-Jul-13 08:50:29

Hello.
It was a bit odd reading the start of this thread and seeing LunaticFringe and Coconuts pop up. I was on this thread with them, a few years back. Since then I have had successful pregnancy and another miscarriage. I'm coming back on as I'm one week out from an ERPC, well, it was on Monday, and for the first time we're getting the tissue tested. And like a couple of you, I'm also faced with the prospect of making some decisions about whether to carry on.
I feel very very sad for those on this journey, getting to three is so hard. My history is a bit strange. I was diagnosed with PCOS before starting to TTC. Miscarried my first pg at about 5 weeks. Then got pg again and took metformin through the first trimester and had DS (now 5).
When he was about 18 months we decided to try for no.2.
1st pg had private scan at 8 weeks, no embryo seen. ERPC.
2nd pg had scan at 7 weeks hb seen, started bleeding at 8, natural mc.
I was 'lucky' to have been treated by the same nurse both times at the EPAU and she referred me for testing then.
Tests showed I had a clotting factor, Leiden Factor V, but nothing else (apart from existing PCOS). Consultant recommended aspirin, I fought for heparin, but he wouldn't give progesterone.
3rd pg on aspirin, heparin, metformin. Scans at 5,7,9 weeks all fine, scan at 11.5 weeks - no hb, apparently hb stopped around 9.3. Consultant said, throw everything at it - progesterone next time.
Left UK, decided that one child was fine, gave up. Got pg.
Progesterone, heparin, metformin, aspirin. Weekly scans, DD born last year (now 14 months)
Decided to try for 3rd. Got pg. No metformin as cycles just returned while BFing.
Got pg. Progesterone, heparin, aspirin. Weekly scans. All fine until scan at 9.5 weeks shows hb stopped.

So. Here I am again. Wondering whether it was metformin. Or age (I'm 39), or something else. And wishing most of all that I could have been like my two best friends, who walked out of the hospital having had their DC2 saying 'thank god I never have to do that again'. It seems like the last in a long line of sick jokes from the universe that I walked out saying in my heart 'I want to be pregnant all over again'.

Justonemoretime Sat 13-Jul-13 10:12:36

Welcome, Ladybee, sorry you find yourself here. Hope your recovery is swift and uncomplicated.

teaandchocolate Sat 13-Jul-13 19:03:51

Hi everyone.

Hello to Ladybee. Sorry you're back here again. I think you'll find a lot of common ground with Baking and Picardy who are also deciding whether to keep trying for no3.

Purple - sorry you find yourself here. I hope you are recovering ok.

I just wanted to let you all know that I had my private 12 week scan and screening today and it was all fine!! Came back very low risk and all anatomy checks were good! Can't quite believe we've got here after such an awful 18 months! Should be due end of January!

I do wonder whether the hyper fertility issue could be blamed for my mc as this is the first time I didn't get pregnant on the first go. It took 5 months this time which felt like forever but hopefully meant a good one stuck.

Hello to everyone else. Hope you're doing ok. Baking I hope you get some clarity soon. Its such an impossible decision to know when to stop. I also hoped to have 3 children but if this works out I'm not sure I can put myself and my family through all this again.

donttrythisathome Sat 13-Jul-13 21:00:51

Ladybee, what a rollercoaster. What does the metformin do and why do you think it would have made a difference? Its so hard to mc after seeing the hb - after my last mc I had seen the hb, had the same preg symptoms ad I had with my one live child, and innocently presumed (largely) everything would be ok. Is numbing when it turns out you were wrong.

Tea - yahoooo!!!! Sounds very very positive, Thrilled for you. Do you feel more relaxed now or is it impossible to be relaxed after rcmcs? Mind you its hard to be relaxed really even if you haven't had mcs until the baby has been born.

justonemore time - it really seems there are babies and pregnant people everywhere. probably because there actually is and always will be! I found myself staring at a pregnant woman down the beach today, couldn't stop looking and wondering what my 15 week bump would have been like (answer: bloated).

I went for a scan on Friday and have no retained product left, but now have a cyst on my ovary! They said it wasn't a problem though and they will scan me again in 3 months to see if it is gone. Now just waiting impatiently to ovulate as i am so keen to get pregnant again. Amazingly I am optimistic for the next time, but perhaps I should tone it all down as it will make it very hard to cope if I am not more realistic about my chances. Me and my DH both 40, 3 mcs in a row - I can't make out the stats, but I know they ain't good.

Bakingtins Sat 13-Jul-13 22:07:23

Tea amazing news! Hope you can finally relax and start believing you are going to have a baby.

Ladybee welcome back. I'm sorry you have miscarried again. It sounds like you've had a heartbreaking history to get to this point. I'm with you that I wish I could just have been happy with two. We did spend quite a long time deciding whether to go for no 3 (with no 2 it was a no brainer and I didn't even contemplate not trying again after miscarrying between the boys) and with hindsight I wish I'd been one of the people who are totally sure after 2 kids that they are done. I would have saved myself a lot of heartache. It's very hard to stop after a loss or a series of losses, it's so unresolved.

Justone hope you are managing to hold it together. unlike me who bawled my eyes out in Sainsbury's this week It's very unsettling when other things in your life are also feeling a bit out of control.

One of my colleagues announced she is retiring in two weeks. She has 40 yrs experience and they are replacing her with a temporary new grad confused which will make our work lives difficult this summer. It throws up all sorts of opportunities to potentially increase/rejig my hours at work before they employ someone permanent. If there are to be no more babies I'd like some more hours once DS2 is at school in another year. Just terrible timing when I feel everything else is so uncertain. DH thinks I should seize the opportunity and throw myself back into work which has been a bit on hold since I had DS1 6 yrs ago. I just don't know what I want any more.

PicardyThird Sat 13-Jul-13 23:26:36

Gosh Baking, we really do have rather parallel lives. I've got a few work developments going on as well. And I was just saying to someone yesterday that i don't know what I want any more.

Ladybee, hello - sorry you find yourself back on the thread. I see you too have 2 dc and 5 mc and Factor V. I'm afraid i can't provide a great deal of wisdom about the trying-again thing, as I am failing miserably to deal with it. Feel pushed in direction of giving up but tbh don't think I can bear to.

Period turned up yesterday, 4 or 5 days late - extremely unusual for me. Had several negative pg tests in the run-up, so I don't think an early mc was involved, but it has made me a bit confused because I am usually the epitome of regularity. Off on hol for 2 weeks on Mon, mostly in rather cramped accommodation, so ttc will be a bit of a challenge, although i hope we'll find a moment wink. First geneticist appt the week after we come back - not expecting any answers straight away, as she is insisting on taking and testing the blood herself [FFS]. I feel we just have to keep going in the meantime, although I felt extremely ambivalent about the idea of pregnancy while waiting for my period. One night I dreamed I was holding a positive test in my hand and woke up in panic, with the words 'oh no' ringing in my ears hmm

Bakingtins Mon 15-Jul-13 08:15:16

Newsflash - we've decided I will go up to see Dr Quenby, hopefully this cycle. We can then take the summer off and wait to see what the results are before making a decision on whether to try again.
This is positively, definitely the last option for us where have I heard that before and we're going to put all sorts of caveats on trying again in terms of the length of time we'll try and if it doesn't work that is it. I suppose if nothing else it postpones a decision and we can see how we feel in September.

nearlyreadytopop Mon 15-Jul-13 10:38:15

tins thats good news . This is for nk cell testing? I know I wont stop till every avenue has been investigated

I have to wait to try again too (is there a waiting to ttc thread?) we have had the when do we stop and just be very grateful for what we have talk. I'm a bit more bloody minded than dh. But this latest mc has left me very broken emotionally. So I am taking a break for a few months, recover, loose some weight, have a few periods (here's hoping), get the tests done and try to chill.
How long will it take for results to come through for you?

Bakingtins Mon 15-Jul-13 13:23:01

Hi Nearly. Yes the appointment is for a scan and uterine biopsy (eek) for uterine NK cells. It takes about 4-6 weeks to get results which takes us into September.
Sounds like we have a similar plan - take the summer off TTC, take some vitamins, complete the C25K plan so I'm a bit fitter - get results in the new term and then see where we are up to.

Picardy have a fab holiday.

xXjunebugXx Mon 15-Jul-13 16:35:53

Tea, amazing news, so happy for you.

xXjunebugXx Mon 15-Jul-13 16:41:06

Baking, have you had a blood test for NK cells? Or just having a biopsy?

I will also be having the summer off. I'm not happy about it but is necessary. I am getting tests done next month so I have to wait for those and for the results. I am fertile now and it doesn't feel natural not to try sad

teaandchocolate Mon 15-Jul-13 22:05:12

Thanks Junebug! I still can't quite believe it and finding it quite hard telling people as I don't know how to react to their excitement. I just want to tell them to calm down as its early days and it could still all go wrong! But at the same time I have started to get a little bit excited and even (rather prematurely!) started a list of names!

Baking I'm so pleased you have a sound plan. I also think seeing an experienced and trusted consultant will be really helpful and hopefully give you a better idea of where you stand.

To all those taking time out from ttc I completely know how you feel and how strange it is as we took quite a few months off to get tests done. It actually really helped me I think. I was in a much better place emotionally when we did start trying (although I did lose it a few times during that ttc time as you all know!). I took loads of vitamins, did exercise and had acupuncture (as well as having a few drunken nights out) to get myself in the best possible place for ttc. Its such a hard slog though.

Bakingtins Mon 15-Jul-13 22:16:09

Hi Junebug no just going straight for biopsy. Received wisdom is that nobody knows whether blood NK cells relate to uterine wall levels or not, or how relevant they are. Dr Quenby's work still at the research stage but she is well respected.

donttrythisathome Tue 16-Jul-13 00:18:27

Taking the summer off and getting fit does sound great. I feel I can't afford to wait and am too impatient. I could really do with getting fit though.

Teas, that's exciting making a names list. Any clues as to faves...?

Baking, I'm glad you've reached some sort of decision. It must be a relief of sorts. As someone said there is no decision that is conflict free - that is one of the hard things about this. Why do you think biopsy is better than the bloods, and do you know where is a good place to find out the basics about NK testing? Even though I am going to Dr Shehata I am just stumbling around in the dark really, clueless.

squizita Tue 16-Jul-13 08:14:03

Hi all... been offline for a few days. Phew it's hot!! Been all over, doing a vintage event, DH's husband and sports day 1 and 2 (we're a sports sepcialist school) yesterday/today.

LadyBee -hi, sorry to hear of your loss. sad flowers

Tea - WOOP! smile What a nice scan to have. It must be such an ENORMOUS relief. Sending continued good vibes. Also considering acupuncture. I heard lots of women who have IVF find it helps things 'stick' and as I tend to have 6-8 week losses I wondered if it might help me?

Baking best of luck with Dr Quenby. Fingers crossed you get some answers this time, and that they are the kind of answers she can treat! Sending good luck flowers As the others have said having one of the 'big names' advise you may give peace of mind with whatever you decide, at least you know she is one of the best and knows her stuff.
We're also all-change at work. I've got 3 of the strongest members of my team leaving to be replaced by NQTs (fresh-out-of-teaching-college). Darn it, the gals got such good results they went for promotion- can't blame them! We still have a strong team but next academic year's gonna be more hand-holding and training for me to do than this.

Picardy I hate it when AF messes around. It seems to happen a LOT, and unexpectedly, to us RMCers - so try not to worry it probably was just a weird AF if there were no BFPs.

Junebug I'm also waiting. Have been told to cause of tests and it's advised to wait after partial molar. It does seem so frustrating but DH keeps pointing out the whole "TTC, BFP, MC, WTF cycle, TTC, BFP, MC..." month after month was grinding us down physically and emotionally and he has a point.

nearlyreadytopop Tue 16-Jul-13 08:54:27

tins I will keep everything crossed that Dr Q finds something she can help with. On a c25k note, I got up to week 3 before bfp. I am actually really looking forward to starting again. It was great for my sanitysmile what week are you on?

ladyb I'm sorry for your loss. I have been wondering about metformin as well. I took it prior to my first pregnancy, we had been ttc for 15 months. ds is now 2. I didn't realise until recently that it might be useful in staying pregnant as well. I have just started back on it as I need to loose some weight.

Its 5 weeks until my nhs tests. Can anyone remember how long it took for results to come back?

Bakingtins Tue 16-Jul-13 09:22:09

donttry I think it's v hard to find unbiased information on it. I read Dr Beer's book "Is your body baby friendly?" but found it quite confusing. There's a thread on the pregnancy board called something along the lines of TTC/pregnant on prednisolone for women who've had RMC due to immune issues. The RMC clinic that I attended and my consultant both said blood testing for NK cells is unreliable - they don't know how that relates to levels in the uterus. My private consultant recommended Dr Quenby and she does a fixed price consult and uterine NK cells test, plus she does any follow up by phone and works with your local consultant if it comes to recommending treatment. What I didn't want was to start down the road of immune testing and end up spending thousands on many many tests - for us this is "thus far and no further".
Friend of a friend went to London (not sure who she saw for testing) and had loads of tests, ended up having IVF and selection of a genetically healthy embryo even though she had got pregnant and miscarried many times, intralipid, steroids, IVG....she did get her baby, but it's just further than we personally are prepared to go.

nearly I had just started wk 4 then twisted my ankle so have had a week off. Am going to start week 4 again tonight. Aiming to do a 5k run in September. I was thinking about getting myself sponsored and trying to raise a bit of money for the Miscarriage Association, but not sure if I want to do the inevitable explaining why. What do you think?

I think most of the blood tests were back in a fortnight, but the karyotyping takes ages (6-8 weeks)

Ladybee Tue 16-Jul-13 12:14:36

That IVF with pregenetic screening is about the only thing I've thought about in the last week - I even looked up costs, it's the closest thing to a guarantee on the embryo side. But I think (even before the money is considered) it's just not something I could do to get there. I hate the idea that my body doesn't support healthy embryos and I suspect knowing I'd had a healthy one transferred and still lost it would be devastating. I think this is why I'm feeling quite ambivalent about getting the test results back. Also learning the sex, I think that will be v v hard.
My ERPC was a week ago. It feels like no time at all and over a month, at the same time.

Bakingtins Tue 16-Jul-13 14:00:22

I found it very tough to know for sure I was losing healthy embryos (or at least that that last one was healthy) Somehow that made it my fault, whereas if it was a genetically dodgy embryo that was just unfortunate. I didn't ask about the sex, you don't have to have that info if you don't want it.

orangebowl Wed 17-Jul-13 07:56:34

Hi ladies. I'm on my phone so just a quick one. Tea- I'm soo pleased for you. And can't believe you are past 12 weeks already.. Although sure it went slowly for you.

Yes really hope you get some options at least from Dr Quenby Baking.

I am still not sure if its appropriate for me to be hanging around here but decided to update. So now 35 weeks today! Baby is breech at the moment but midwife says still time to turn.. Also.. baby apparently on the 95th percentile- yikes! (For those that don't know me story is 1ds no problems, 4MMCs mainly around 8/9 wks then diagnosed with antiphospholipid syndrome, taking aspirin and heparin with this pregnancy and here we are...).

Sorry not to name check everyone else - hoping all that testing yields some results. Xx

squizita Wed 17-Jul-13 10:01:35

School Glad to hear from you and that you're nearly there! smile Hope the baby turns! Otherwise does it mean they recommend C-section? Sounds like you're in good hands whichever way mini-school decides to make their entrance! smile

teaandchocolate Wed 17-Jul-13 10:49:42

Thanks School & Squiz!!

School can't believe how close you are now! My DD was breech and I ended up having a section (which worked out well as meant I avoided induction for gestational diabetes which I was v worried about). Anyway section was absolutely fine. Very calm and relaxing. However if you want to turn the baby then acupuncture can really help apparently!!

Bakingtins Wed 17-Jul-13 11:12:44

Of course you should still be here, School. We are very much looking forward to hearing about Mini-school's (should that be preschool?) arrival.

orangebowl Wed 17-Jul-13 12:02:28

Ah thanks everyone. I'm not sure what they will do if baby still breech in 2 weeks when I go for scan and consultant review (will be 37 weeks then). Midwife said she didn't think They would try to turn baby (ECV) with my history and so they would probably recommend c section. Hadn't really considered it before- good to hear yours was calm Tea. To be honest I don't care as long as they get baby out safely. X

nearlyreadytopop Wed 17-Jul-13 13:58:24

hi school you are like a ray of sunshine. so so good to hear from someone who has been through rmc and is out the other side smile

nearlyreadytopop Wed 17-Jul-13 21:07:42

slightly random question, how long do I wait after erpc before going swimming? dr google is giving me a variety of answerssmile

orangebowl Wed 17-Jul-13 21:49:53

Aw thanks Nearly- that's lovely of you..

Re. Swimming, I think just as soon as bleeding has subsided (I hardly had any bleeding with any of the 3 erpcs I had so would have been after a couple of days) is ok.

Polka2 Thu 18-Jul-13 09:13:47

Morning ladies! Hope everyone is managing to 'grin and bear it' at the mo, personally I'm finding the royal-baby arrival quest quite tough as I would have been due around now if my 2nd mc didn't go to pot!

We had our appt with Raj Rai yesterday (fought thru' journalists/photographers) which seemed really positive. A lovely guy with a straight forward approach. I did ask him about the NK stuff and he surprised me by saying that there is no evidence whatsoever of someone with NK cells having successful treatment for their NK cells to avoid mc, he said the treatment they have won't affect the cells but wether its because they're being more closely monitored etc - confusing confused

Bakingtins Thu 18-Jul-13 09:28:17

So hard to get a straight answer on this when they all disagree with each other! I think St Mary's don't subscribe to any of the NK cells stuff.
Did you have some tests done Polka ? How long until you get the results?

Polka2 Thu 18-Jul-13 10:32:51

I know baking its impossible really as I don't want to throw money pointlessly but do want to make sure all bases are covered - hard to know where to draw the line but will see what these tests say and go from there I think. confused

Yes had various blood tests taken and have my 2nd appt in a months - he analysed the bloods I'd previously had done 6 months ago and confirmed no chromosonal/hereditary probs so now looking at Lupus and had a TEG and APA test too.

squizita Thu 18-Jul-13 11:16:33

Nearly I asked about swimming as I went to a spa in the midst of my last (dragged out) one. They said no bleeding = swimming's fine.

Baking & Polka yes I know what you mean about how confusing it is when different experts clash so much. In a way I'm glad of the NHS as it's a way forward for the first round of tests so almost makes that decision easy - I can only imagine in some places (e.g. America) where everything is very commercial there must be people taking advantage. At least we know for all their differing opinions they are either NHS or attached to a university research programme and trustworthy and ethical, if you get what I mean? Also Polka I think I am seeing him too in August so very glad he sounds a nice doc to have!

Polka2 Thu 18-Jul-13 13:03:11

Squiz he was nice and was really concerned about explaining anything and answering all my q's no matter how daft! Good luck.

Polka2 Thu 18-Jul-13 14:31:09

He also said that aspirin is proven to have no effect and to increase mc if you're taking it when you don't need to, so told me to stop taking it until the bloods revealed wether I actually had a problem or not.

I'm amazed this isn't more widely publicised as I know lots of people are advised to take it as a 'just incase it helps' measure but not realising that it could cause harm. confused

Bakingtins Thu 18-Jul-13 15:25:47

Yet I've been told to take aspirin by a consultant in reproductive medicine specialising in recurrent miscarriage and the RCM clinic at the hospital. confused
I think it just shows how there's a need for more research. People keep saying in 10 years it will become clear which of these interventions help and which don't, but that is no use to me now in trying to decide what to do.

donttrythisathome Fri 19-Jul-13 11:48:02

Thanks for the info Baking.

Polka, glad you are getting some testing. I agree the info is confusing and they all seem to disagree. I was told to take aspirin after I got a BFP.

I wish it could be different. I would have been due baby from my second mc too on 5 July so I know what you mean about the royal baby mania. My SIL just had a baby too (announced preg just as I was miscarrying).

I have had news on my tissue testing - they found an anomoly although won't say what it is. I asked for a copy of it to e sent to me and to be told, so the EPU nurse is checking into this. Honestly...its my bloody test! So now am being sent off for karotyping with DH in two weeks, so they can see if it is a one-off or "translocation".

Then 6 weeks for the result and only then will I have an appointment! I am annoyed as I asked the eejit consultant for karotyping for me and DH before and he wouldn't give it. On the basis of our age and 3 mcs I think he should have given it then. Grrr.

I stopped bleeding mid last week and for the last few days have yellow EWCM type discharge but no positive OPK. Any thoughts on why it would be yellow?

donttrythisathome Fri 19-Jul-13 18:08:39

It was aneuploidy. Getting copy of the result tomorrow.

Bakingtins Fri 19-Jul-13 19:17:30

Doesn't that imply it's not a chromosome problem inherited from you or DH? Extra/missing chromosomes happen when the gametes are formed, so it was a dodgy egg or sperm that caused it.

donttrythisathome Fri 19-Jul-13 20:25:30

Baking, I've been trying to look into it, and it seems that some people would be more prone to having babies with aneuploidy, so the blood tests are to see if there is anything which predisposes us to having such babies, or whether it was more likely to be a one off. Maybe its the particular type of chromosome anomoly found that is causing concern, I won't know until I get to speak to the consultant months from now *unless Mr Shehata can talk to me about it - but the results won't be back by then).

Makes the thoughts of TTC really scary now.

Bakingtins Sat 20-Jul-13 07:31:20

It's crap that they give you a bit of information(under duress by the sound of it) then there is no help to draw conclusions from it. You need to know if this is a random thing and not likely to happen again before you TTC. I hope when you get the full results you get more clarity. Can you speak to the consultant on the phone about it?

teaandchocolate Sat 20-Jul-13 08:46:28

Don'ttry can you refer yourself to a genetic counsellor? I saw one after getting the triploidy diagnosis as I had met her before for something else so I rang her directly. She saw me and just asked me to get my GP to refer me retrospectively. They seemed pretty laid back about referrals and are good people to speak to about these conditions and implications for future pregnancies. Maybe just get the number from the Internet or alternatively ask your GP/consultant for a referral?

squizita Sat 20-Jul-13 17:51:58

It's infuriating when they do that... withold info and give you scraps even when you chase. angry

I'm off on hols this week. Not TTC because we get tested on the 13th eek! Just relaxing before.

donttrythisathome Sat 20-Jul-13 19:34:49

Thanks. I got a copy today - the nurse wasn't withholding as such, just was checking with her superior before releasing it. It is Trisomy 15, and said male sex chromosome complement. Presume that means a boy?

We are getting karotyping done on 31 and then will have appointment with the consultant (the eejit)- but could be weeks and weeks. I might try the GP on Mon to get the bloods done in Guys if that would make it quicker (Sussex send bloods up there and it all takes 6 weeks!).

The test result was dated 12 June so huge delay in getting it to me. Means I won't have the results for my apt with Shehata. V annoying. Nurse said she didn't know what the delay was except "it wasn't the EPUs fault".

Hope everyone is well. Enjoy hols squiz.

Bakingtins Tue 23-Jul-13 10:49:43

The thread has gone a bit quiet. How is everyone?

Only one more day until DS1 breaks up from school and then soon we are off to Camp Bestival, which was brilliant last year and I'm really looking forward to, except that it was round that time that I conceived baby for MC in Sept 12. The last 12 months have been so shit. Everything is tinged with sadness because it's always the anniversary of something to do with failed pregnancies.
Never mind, onwards and upwards, trying to stay positive. I am on wk 5 of C25K and pleased with my progress, it's our 9th wedding anniversary tomorrow, and I have an appointment with Dr Quenby next Monday.

Polka2 Tue 23-Jul-13 13:15:12

Hi ladies!

Don'tTry that sounds sooo annoying, is there no way with you chasing them up that the results won't be in before your appt with Dr Shetata?

Baking you must be on the count down for Bestival and school hols! Enjoy and hope you don't get caught up in the storms!

AFM Seeing as my last period was 18th May and I mc on 25th June (which was only a teeny tiny bit of bleeding, not even 40% of a normal period) I STILL haven't had a period - I've had a gizillion reflexology sessions to try and push it along and I feel ready to explode I'm so bloated not to mention how evil and hormonal I feel (or is it just my DH is extra annoying at the mo?!). Previously in the WTF cycle my period adjusted back to norm really quickly with a reflexology session but this time its totally squiffy, I think it must be to do with cyclogest I was taking when pg as I seem to react ridiculously to any drugs - gggggrrr!

nearlyreadytopop Tue 23-Jul-13 22:52:54

hi baking nothing much to report here. just lurking about counting down the days until we can begin the tests. smile hope you are doing ok? have you got the Dr Q appointment yet?

Purplefrogshoe Tue 23-Jul-13 23:01:46

Hi everyone, hope everyone is ok, I'm still waiting to have tests done after my 3rd mc, I thought while I wait I would try and be a bit healthier, I've cut out caffeine and I was thinking of talking vitamins, have already been taking folic acid and high dose vit D3, vit D3 on the advise of my orthopaedic surgeon, he assures me this will also be fine if I got pregnant?? Can anyone advise? Xx

donttrythisathome Tue 23-Jul-13 23:45:52

Hi everyone
Polka, I got my period after DTD with DH, so maybe worth a try if you're up to it?! Yes perhaps I could chase results - I'm could definitely be more proactive. I'm usually very on the ball - this all seems to have thrown me. I can't bear reading all about it. It feels boring, but it must just be a defence mechanism as boring it ain't!

Purple - no advice on the D3, but I had tests at GP for vit D, folic acid levels and also vit B12. I take high does folic acid (but only because other medication I take may interfere with my levels), algae oil (like fish oils, but vegetarian) and Solgar prenatal vits. Although turns out there was a chromosome problem with last mc anyway so none of this may have made a difference. Although I did read there may be a link between low folic acid/B12 and chromosome difficulties.

Baking, enjoy the festival. Hope it takes your mind off things.

I had a positive OPK last night, just after a major vomiting fit had hit me and DH! So not in the mood to DTD, but we did anyway. Prior to that I had got sick into a bin in a crowded commuter train on my way home from work. I had to ask people to move out of the way of the bin, it was that packed. The lovely train conductor put me sitting in the train driver's second mate's carriage, which had the window open with a lovely breeze. V kind!

Justonemoretime Wed 24-Jul-13 07:04:09

Hello ladies, hope you've fared the last 24 hours' news without too much distress? Got AF on Sat, only lasted 3 days, but they were always v short (part of the problem?). Oh, to be 'normal'! Best wishes for tests, normality and holidays to all! X

Bakingtins Wed 24-Jul-13 07:13:31

Donttry hope you are feeling better.

teaandchocolate Wed 24-Jul-13 07:33:57

Hi everyone.
Hope you don't mind me still hanging around. I was going to pop on and say I hope you're all doing ok despite the 24 hour baby news coverage. Its so tough for those suffering with infertility and mc

Donttry I hope you feel better soon you poor thing! Nothing more unromantic than DTD when poorly because you've got a positive opk!

Baking sounds like you've got a fun summer planned. I hope it means you have some lovely memories to look back on rather than all the horrible ones of the past couple of years.

Purple I took high dose vitamin D as I'd read it could help (wasnt advised by a medical professional). Anyway seems to have been ok as I'm now 13 weeks pregnant. I was told that high dose vit C and omega 3 (which I was also taking) shouldn't be taken with aspirin (which I took) as they can also thin the blood. I didn't stop taking them but did reduce the dose and took them at different times to the aspirin. No idea if that's the right thing to do!!

I had a lovely weekend as it was DDs bday (same day as royal baby) and it was such a nice contrast to last year when I spent the day miscarrying while entertaining a house full of people! I am feeling quite content at the moment although the 20 week scan seems so long away and until I feel movement I can't help but feel anxious. Debating whether to have another scan but maybe these feelings never go after rmc? Also been thinking about vbac vs csection. I really think that because of the mc I genuinely don't care how a baby arrives as long as it is ok. I have no desire to experience a natural birth, I would just feel so grateful to get a baby! Maybe a small positive to come out of this.

Anyway even if I'm not on here as much as before I check on you all the time and you're all in my thoughts. I'm definitely not out of the woods yet so if you don't mind I'm not moving off this board yet!!

Polka2 Wed 24-Jul-13 09:47:33

DontTry I have DTD since mc but nothing and I'm now sooo bloated I feel like a whale and completely unsexy blush I hope you're feeling better though, how horrid to be feeling/being pukey on a packed train in this heat - blaggghhh!

Tea great to have you here still offering us non-grads support, so glad you enjoyed your DD's bday weekend. It always surprises me now having had 3 mc that there are so many things that remind me of one or another of them - anniversary of the day, due date, date it all went wrong etc etc it's certainly a cruel old world.

Bakingtins Wed 24-Jul-13 10:23:11

Please stay around Tea we need some success stories to remind us it's possible.

donttrythisathome Wed 24-Jul-13 10:53:38

Yes Tea please stay here! You still need support and we need the happy story! If I get preg again I will definitely be staying on here. In fact I'm not sure if I will go onto an antenatal thread at all this time - maybe in the second trimester. There were a lot of mcs in my last antenatal thread though (Jan 2013). In my first (March 2010) I can only remember the one, and it really stuck out. She had had a dream about a beautiful girl called Genevieve I think, sitting by a lake. She woke up and she was bleeding and miscarried. Happily a few months later she conceived again and gave birth not too long after the first baby had been due. I'll always remember that.

Polka - oh the bloating. Arghh!
I've bought The Shred. I have never done an exercise video but really feel bleurgh and would love to feel better. Anyone tried it?

donttrythisathome Wed 24-Jul-13 10:54:01

Jan 2014 I meant.

Bakingtins Wed 24-Jul-13 12:02:19

I haven't done the Shred, donttry but am finding doing C25K is very beneficial. I think anything that makes me feel physically fitter and better about my useless, repeatedly letting me down body is a good thing. Let us know how you get on!

Purplefrogshoe Wed 24-Jul-13 20:56:24

Thanks donttry and tea, I'm going to keep going with the vit d just now and I got some vit b complex and omega 3 too, hope your feeling better donttry, congrats tea smile

Bakingtins Fri 26-Jul-13 13:57:34

Having a wobble about seeing Dr Q on Monday now, not so much about the actual test (more vaguely unpleasant guddling - god knows I've had enough of that) but whether I should be going at all. I was so upset at the thought of stopping TTC and felt better once we had a plan of what to do next, now I'm actually enjoying that we are not TTC and I don't have the worry of a potential BFP and the early weeks looming over me again. The last few times I've been pregnant it has been an "oh shit" reaction sad
I don't even know what I want any more. I'm beginning to think I'd be much better off to give up on the idea of a third child and find some other good things to focus on that don't have the potential to put me through the whole horrible cycle again. Maybe the sadness about stopping is just a grief process for what might have been but doesn't mean that carrying on is the right thing to do...?
I know that I'm not committing myself to TTC again by seeing Dr Q but if she offers us some hope then we are back on the merry-go-round again.
My boys are growing up so fast, in another year the youngest will be at school. All my friends have had their 2/3 kids close together and moved on to other things as the kids go off to school - we already had the biggest gap in the group because I had a MC in between the boys. We started TTC hoping for a 2 yr gap and now it would be minimum 4 yrs.
DH and I had a "state of the nation" discussion on our wedding anniversary, we normally talk about where we want to be in 1/5/10 yrs and I just don't know. What I want is not to have to have dealt with all this crap and to be able to have had my 3 kids at 2 yr intervals like everyone else and be happily able to hang up the nappies and move on.

Polka2 Fri 26-Jul-13 14:32:18

Oh baking hugs.

I can't answer your quandries but going to see Dr Q means you'll never have that 'what if' moment later down the line - sorry that's all I can offer but I know it's a really personal decions.

teaandchocolate Fri 26-Jul-13 21:15:46

Baking its such a dilemma but are you sure you're not just feeling good about not ttc because you know you have a plan and are having an enforced break? I would definitely still go for your appointment and ask lots of questions about the chances of success etc. I guess its only with all the facts that you can really make a decision. I think you'll just know when the time comes whether you feel you can ttc again and possibly go through another mc.

I understand where you are coming from though. I had always wanted 3 children but am now really hoping that if this pregnancy works out I will just be happy with 2 so we can move on from all this. Let us know what you decide. Always here to listen even if we can't make these choices for you.

PicardyThird Sat 27-Jul-13 22:28:03

Hello everyone. Had a good couple of weeks holiday, making most of unusually good internet in our little holiday cottage, everyone else asleep. Home tomorrow.

Baking, I can absolutely empathise. It's a bit different for us in that I was happy for, even planned for a biggish gap in between nos 2 and 3 - my boys are 2.4 years apart and for the first few years that was fine, i always figured I had plenty of time confused. Mc no. 4 would have resulted in a five-and-a-bit year gap between ds2 and dc3, mc no. 5 in a six-and-a-bit year gap. I'm thinking a lot atm about the advantages of being done and dusted - being on holiday, for example, and enjoying my two a lot, I've been thinking of the back-to-square-one-ness of what it would be like juggling the holiday needs of a 9yo, a nearly 7yo and a baby - and am envying people who know that two is enough for them, iyswim.

Glad things still going well, tea. Donttry, thinking of you - we are seeing geneticist on the 5th for a first appt (no diagnosis as yet, still have to go through bloods and everything as gynae wouldn't do them) and I have very mixed feelings about the whole thing.

donttrythisathome Sat 27-Jul-13 23:12:24

Baking, you are very good and very honest at expressing your feelings. What shines through for me is your overwhelming desire to give it a shot. Despite the fear, the disruption, the pain, the uncertainty. The grief and frustration about the way things were meant to work out, and didn't. It is nice to be on a holiday from it all. But probably because it is just a holiday. Why do you want another child-maybe your answer lies in the answer to that question? There are a lot of good reasons why you should give up now, and perhaps a large reason. Was the third child part of a plan that can now never be? was it this idea of a particular kind of family life, rather than a third child in itself that you wanted? Or do you truly yearn to be a mother again?
I truly empathise. I'm doubting my reasons for having another child now. Had a fantasy about 2 girls close together. Playing through their childhood together. This cannot be now.

I read somewhere that life is not a problem to be solved but a mystery to be lived. I am still trying to figure this out fully but it seems like good advice.

Picardy, glad you had a lovely hol. Good luck with the geneticist. we are going in for karotyping on Wed and am going to see if the results can be expedited and sent straight to Dr Shehata.

hope everyone is well.

Justonemoretime Sun 28-Jul-13 18:33:36

Good luck tomorrow Baking. I hope you get some helpful insight.
Had a weird AF, on and off, spotty at the end. I suppose that's normal for the first one after EPRC? Anyone else have short/light AFs? I really think this might be part of the problem, but since I seem to OV and am regular, doctors don't seem concerned...
Best wishes to all. xx

Bakingtins Sun 28-Jul-13 19:09:39

Thanks everyone.

Justone have you had a mid cycle scan? It's one of the tests I had to check that you are developing an adequate uterine lining to support a pregnancy.

Justonemoretime Sun 28-Jul-13 23:14:52

Hi, Yes, I was in the process of having that looked at just before last pg, then I managed it and everyone said 'hooray!' and now it looks like I'm back to square one. I will certainly mention it at St Mary's in October. I know I can manage 22mm (when AF finally came back after 2nd MC (which needed 2x ERPC and 1 hyseroscopy and then 2 weeks HRT), but I'm afraid to say that 2.2 mm on day 23 was also spotted sad

Ilovemypajamas Mon 29-Jul-13 09:10:32

Good luck today Tins, hope you're feeling ok whatever you decided.

I'm kind of hoping I can join this thread. Not sure if I'm 'eligible' as have had two miscarriages rather than three. Am being referred for testing early though, as they uncovered abnormalities with my uterus after the first mc so we agreed a compromise of two before referral (very magnanimous of them). They say its either bicornuate or septate but needed to do more tests to find out which and therefore what they can do about it.

No dc. Had the second mc last week. Was doing quite well until yesterday when I had something of a humiliating meltdown at the zoo with my parents, DB, DSIL and nieces. Probably suggests I'm not as fine as I'm trying to convince myself. I've also noticed an increase in pity responses this time round which I hate. Last time people did the whole 'at least you can conceive', 'it happens to so many people' bit which I grumbled about at the time but now kind of miss. This time people either d