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Menopause

Please help- hot flushes shivering palpitations night sweats

220 replies

Wordsaremything · 29/08/2015 09:49

i feel as if I've aged 15 years in the last three months. Just turned 49. Bloods done a while ago to rule out anything else. All that fine.

Symptoms are really ramping up. Cycle irregular ( can cope with that) but the hot flushes seemingly provoked by the tiniest stressor have been miserable in the hot weather esp at work where the air con is broken and a long commute on packed trains.

Now getting night sweats and palpitations alternating with a strange creepy/ shivery feeling all over my upper body.

So tired, largely due to constant nights of broken sleep.

Not keen on hrt. Just paid a fortune for goose down duvet and high thread count cotton bedding - do I need to rethink and get a wool duvet? I sleep naked (alone thankfully can't bear the thought of another body in there with me!) with windows open around house to try and get a draught - but then end up freezing with the sweating.

I had another terrible night last night and I could cry! This is not like me at all. Normally power on through physical discomfort but this is fast becoming intolerable.

Advice, sympathy? Please???

OP posts:
Wordsaremything · 29/08/2015 10:09

Just had a thought about the wool duvet- can't wear wool as it makes my skin itch. Guess non- starter then :(

OP posts:
pinkfrocks · 29/08/2015 10:15

The only thing that will really work and is proven to work is HRT.

If you look at the thread underneath this one - at the moment about HRT you will see a link to a Daily Mail feature.

Worth reading.

If your reluctance to use HRT is based on the much publicised but now seen as outdated and incorrect research, it might be time for a re-think?

I think you need to ask yourself why you don't want to use HRT. It's an absolute godsend and risks for women 50-60 are minute.

If you still want to avoid it then people will be along to suggest you try Menopace and other oTC herbal stuff which may work or may not. Acupuncture is certainly worth a try but at £45+ a session isn't cheap.

YeOldeTrout · 29/08/2015 10:18

I'm not a fan of pills/HRT either, but in these modern times I don't see why we should suffer. Have you tried any type of pills, perhaps evening primrose oil?

Don't know how people sleep under a duvet in the heat, anyway (yes I hate hotels). I sleep under a sheet with a few blankets so I can get the temp perfect for me (do not have hot flushes but do have poor circulation).

PurpleAlerts · 29/08/2015 10:39

I sympathise- went through all that about two years ago- I too didn't want HRT so went down the natural route. I take soya Flavons and sage leaf tablets which really really helped with the hot flushes and night sweats. Also calcium with vitamin D ( to protect the bones)

FuckyNell · 29/08/2015 10:55

Get some hrt!!

and as for you purple, well it's great that you 'coped' with your menopause. Some of us however have life altering symptoms that simply can't be relieved with anything other than hrt. Sorry to be blunt but if you suffered as badly as me some then I simply can't believe you would refer to it as just 'all that'. As far as I am concerned then you have to be pretty low to be posting like op and to be told you can take soya shit and magically be 'recovered' is REALLY ANNOYING!

Op please realise you don't have to suffer. Risks are minuscule in comparison to the benefits. ITS BEEN PROVEN

Look at //www.menopausematters.co.uk

Crosbybeach · 29/08/2015 11:02

HRT made my life bearable again, night sweats reduced, anxiety reduced, stopped being horrendously depressed. Won't work for everyone, some people really can't take it ( though if it was a slightly increased risk I'd still have taken it as really I wasn't sleeping and going slightly mad with lack of sleep.)

Wool duvet helped, silk ones also supposed to be good. The wool is inside a cotton cover and a duvet cover.

I also take promensil which, it might be entirely coincidental has helped with night sweats.

BIWI · 29/08/2015 11:06

Well, as my mother died from advanced breast cancer, taking HRT is a risk too far for me.

And not all of us want to take those risks, so stop with the humphy faces!

If there are natural remedies that work, surely it's worth a try first?

What really worked for me:

  1. Boots Menolieve. It was like magic. It may have been a placebo, but I don't care!
  2. Cutting down on carbs. I was low carbing for weight loss, but reduction in the hot flushes (especially at night) was a major and unexpected bonus
  3. Cutting down/out caffeine and alcohol


Basically cutting out/down sugar (aka carbs) is a major factor in helping to keep the flushes under control. Like you, OP, I was suffering with poor sleep because of the flushes, and it makes life really miserable.

I'm lucky enough now that at the age of 55, I'm through and out the other side and only have the very, very, very occasional flush.
BIWI · 29/08/2015 11:14

This is worth a read, from the latest Cochrane review (the most objective body when it comes to assessing findings from medical studies). I've c+p the whole thing - it basically says it's very complicated to work out the benefits and/or risks of taking HRT as these depend on many factors, including the age the women start to take it, and the stage they are at in the menopause:

Embargoed: 00.01 GMT: Tuesday 10th March 2015

Press contact:
Jo Anthony
M +44(0) 7582 726 634 E [email protected] or [email protected]

Evelyn Martinez
Senior Publicist, Wiley
T +1 201 748 6358, E [email protected]

New evidence published today in the Cochrane Library shows that hormone replacement therapy (HRT) does not protect post-menopausal women against cardiovascular disease, and may even cause an increased risk of stroke.

HRT, now more commonly known as hormone therapy, is widely used for controlling menopausal symptoms. It has also been used for the prevention of cardiovascular disease in post-menopausal women. This latest evidence looked at the effects of using hormone therapy for at least six months and involved more than 40,000 women across the world.

The length of time women were on treatment varied across the trials from seven months to just over 10 years.

Overall, the results showed no evidence that hormone therapy provides any protective effects against death from any cause, and specifically death from cardiovascular disease, non-fatal heart attacks or angina, either in healthy women or women with pre-existing heart disease. Instead the findings showed a small increased risk of stroke for post-menopausal women.

The authors also explored how much of an effect there was of starting HRT earlier. They found some evidence that women who started treatment within the first 10 years of their menopause, when menopausal symptoms are most common, seemed to have a small protection against death and heart attacks, and no increased risk of stroke. But even in this group, the risk of deep vein thrombosis (DVT) increased.

Author Dr Henry Boardman, from the Department of Cardiovascular Medicine at the University of Oxford, says the harms and benefits of hormone therapy varied according to the ages of the women when they started their treatment.

“The evidence we have provides some support for the so-called ‘Timing Hypothesis’, but we should bear in mind the size of this effect," Dr Boardman said. "When we looked at the results according to the age of women, or by how long since their menopause that they started treatment, we found that if 1000 women under 60 years old started hormone therapy we would expect six fewer deaths, eight fewer cases of heart disease, and five extra blood clots over about seven years, compared to 1000 similar women who did not start hormone therapy.”

Dr Boardman continued, "the findings of this Cochrane Review need to be carefully considered. This is a complicated health issue, where the same treatment offers benefits in some women, but harms in others."

Dr David Tovey, Editor in Chief of the Cochrane Library commented, “This review adds a few more pieces to a complicated jigsaw of evidence relating to the use of HRT to treat symptoms of the menopause. The main analysis that the authors did found no benefit, so we need to apply caution to the results from the subgroup analysis. However, if true, this apparent benefit in preventing heart disease in younger women should be considered alongside other possible benefits and emerging evidence of harms, including the risk of breast cancer, ovarian cancer, and DVT.”

The Cochrane Review’s author, Dr Henry Boardman, concludes, “Hormone therapy remains a valid treatment option for women who are significantly troubled by menopausal symptoms; however, the risks and benefits of such treatment vary according to age and medical history. Discussion with your GP is recommended when considering treatment.”

From this website

pinkfrocks · 29/08/2015 12:27

BIWI
That report is in isolation to many others that show the complete opposite.
It's this kind of selective posting that frightens women. If you like looking at research, have a look at the NICE guidelines, published June 1 2015. Their report covers many studies not just one.
I don't have time to read up on the author just now, but I do know there are some academics who set out with a theory to prove the risks of HRT and find some evidence. I'd need to look at the numbers in that trial, what was researched over what timescale and more- in other words the data.

I can though link to another study which shows the complete opposite!

HRT reduces risk of heart attacks

pinkfrocks · 29/08/2015 12:39

Sorry- pressed too soon.

Women are not prescribed HRT to reduce heart disease or stroke. It's not given as a preventative treatment for either, so I don't really get the 'point' of the report other than to say- as was already known- that HRT started within 10 years of menopause results in fewer deaths from heart disease!

The evidence we have provides some support for the so-called ‘Timing Hypothesis’, but we should bear in mind the size of this effect," Dr Boardman said. "When we looked at the results according to the age of women, or by how long since their menopause that they started treatment, we found that if 1000 women under 60 years old started hormone therapy we would expect six fewer deaths, eight fewer cases of heart disease, and five extra blood clots over about seven years, compared to 1000 similar women who did not start hormone therapy.


The other issue is which type of HRT is used. Transdermal HRT is shown to not cause any higher rate of blood clots. I don't know from glancing at the Cochrane study if they differentiate- and if not, that is a major flaw.
The Danish study and others show a reduction in plaque build up in the arteries by 50%.

Drs who are clued-up know this and prescribe patches or gel. Pills are 'old hat' and are given out by drs for a) cheapness and b) in ignorance and c) on the basis that some women can't be bothered to mess around with a patch or applying gel .

You are very lucky to have only had a few hot flushes. My mum has had them for over 30 years- into her 80s- along with insomnia since the menopause. Some women never get rid of them (my consultant told me this.) In addition, lack of oestrogen doesn't just cause flushes, some of us have very poor sleep patterns, thinner bones and concerns about pelvic floor and vaginal atrophy. All of these can cause poor quality of life ( or death in the case of osteoporosis which kills more elderly women than breast cancer- I can show you the figures.)
My hot flushes were hourly or more. Working with clients, (including men) and being intellectually on the ball were becoming impossible. Lack of sleep was a major issue as were bladder problems. Quality of life is important - not just length of life.

The actual risk of major diseases - if they even exist- is very small.
Everything has a risk. 10 people a day are killed on the road- do we stop using cars? No.

pinkfrocks · 29/08/2015 12:42
Wordsaremything · 29/08/2015 13:18

Thanks so much for taking time and trouble to respond. I'm inclined to try to tackle some of the lifestyle aggravators first before trying hrt. Which means summoning up energy and commitment from somewhere!

Maybe wool duvet would be ok as its in cotton and protected by duvet cover?

Am going to flop into bed this afternoon. Done a couple of errands and am exhausted. :(

OP posts:
Wordsaremything · 29/08/2015 13:23

Pink frocks just read your last post again. I'm flushing every 15 mins or so during day ( v stressful job). You've given much food for thought. Thank you.

OP posts:
BoreOfWhabylon · 29/08/2015 13:40

I'd recommend a silk-filled duvet from Soak and Sleep I also have one of their silk filled pillows. It's made a huge difference for me.

I use cotton bedlinen but have a silk pillowslip.

pinkfrocks · 29/08/2015 14:02

words I think it might balance my posts a bit to say that I was always adamant that I'd never use HRT! In fact I won't take an aspirin unless I am absolutely desperate. I've always used complementary products for anything as much as possible- herbalism, acupuncture etc. I got to almost 53 without any hint of peri. I was a bit shocked then when at 52+ I suddenly got hot flushes out of the blue, about 15 times a day, was wide awake at 1am, and waking several times a night. I decided that I really couldn't go on like this - was eating all the right stuff, no alcohol, no caffeine, practically no sugar or carbs, walking miles daily, - so not much room for any more improvements there. So I decided to give HRT a go and within a week all the horrible stuff had stopped.

I'm pinning my hopes on the large Danish study which showed that for women on HRT for 16 years there was no real increase in breast cancer or heart disease. I didn't make the decision lightly- as you will guess from my posts I live on google and read everything out there, but I also see a dr who is a meno expert and take his advice too. I agree that for some women any risk is unacceptable but you have to realise that there are risks in NOT taking HRT as well as in taking it. Women need to look at their personal and family history. With me, there is heart disease on my mum's side and the stats do show without doubt that transdermal HRT helps reduce risk, but I'm not taking it for that- just so I can function and work.

Badders123 · 29/08/2015 14:10

I am peri menopausal and have tried hrt but because I am still bleeding and my oestrogen isn't that low I was heamorraging every month :(
Also tried progesterone cream but the side effects are worrying.
I am now trying evening primrose, vit b and vit d.
I will def go for hrt once my periods stop, however.

Muskey · 29/08/2015 14:20

Hi just stepped onto this thread. I take evening primrose at the moment which I find helps. I was also prescribed anti depressants because I was having really bad bouts of rage. Which oddly enough helped with the night sweats as well. I am reluctant to try HRT but may try it if things get so bad I can't handle it.

pinkfrocks · 29/08/2015 14:30

Muskey- just FYI- the new guidelines from NICE give Drs a big slapped wrist for prescribing ADs for anything meno. They say they have no place in helping women with peri and meno symptoms unless they have been clinically diagnosed with depression.

Personally I don't know why drs dish them out like Smarties as they have just as many if not more worrying side effects.

pinkfrocks · 29/08/2015 14:32

Just an observation- isn't EPO meant for sore boobs and PMS? I've never ever heard of it being used to meno symptoms. But am happy to be told otherwise if the research shows it works.

Badders123 · 29/08/2015 14:38

That's what I take epo for pink

TweenageAngst · 29/08/2015 14:42

The link BIWI provided is a very up to date systematic review of all the available evidence on HRT and cardiovascular risk. Not a single study.
A cochrane review is pretty much considered the gold standard of systematic reviews and thus BIWI is providing up to date evidence not scaremongering.

Bellaciao · 29/08/2015 15:02

Here is the response from the British Menopause Society into the Cochrane review referred to in the posts above provdfed initially by BIWI:
www.thebms.org.uk/publicdownloads/BMS%20Response%20to%20Cochrane%20review.pdf

Here is what they say on the second page which includes the quote from the actual paper that pinkfrocks gave above:

"The BMS is delighted to see in press an analysis of
the data that supports our long-held view that if a woman starts HRT early in the menopause she may obtain greater benefit when compared to women who start HRT later in life. Current practice in the UK is that very few women start HRT after the age of 60 yet in the studies presented in the Cochrane review the majority of women were over 60 years of age. We strongly believe that the first 10 years of the menopause is an important time in a woman’s life to improve her health and reduce the risk of long term disease, the so-called ‘window of opportunity’. It is with this knowledge that the BMS feels strongly that whilst the new calculations of the risks of Stroke, VTE and PE in the new Cochrane paper are useful scientifically there is a significant message that needs emphasizing:

"For every 1000 women, when given at the right time, HRT could save 6 lives and prevent 8 women from suffering heart disease at the cost of 5 extra women experiencing blood clots"

Ultimately it is up to women to decide whether they wish to take HRT. The data as presented in the press release suggest that HRT started early in the menopause may well have improved benefit in the prevention of disease, and most importantly prevent early deaths. This news is extremely reassuring. "

I think this speaks for itself.
Sorry about your mum BIWI I can understand your worries re BC. We all have to balance the (small) risks vs benefits when making decision like this as well as our age and try to base our decisions on the best scientific evidence available. However none of us can say we won't ever get this or that - so it is really important to look at lifestyle factors as well as HRT to ensure we maximise our chances of good health!

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MedSchoolRat · 29/08/2015 17:38

Smirk @ correction by Tweenage. I think the good news from the Cochrane review is that it didn't find any big problems for most women. So fine to take HRT if it makes your life better.

BIWI · 29/08/2015 17:47

Thanks for pointing out what I obviously failed to, Tweenage! If you want the best, unbiased review of studies, a Cochrane review is what you should read.

Which, as you have all rightly pointed out (as did I), is that it's complicated and depends on your own circumstances, your age, when you started HRT, etc etc.

I was not trying to scaremonger in anyway.

Obviously we are all different, and we have different risks to take into account, and different choices to make - but that's why it's also important to have the latest information and guidance, rather than 'pinning your hopes' on one particular study.

YeOldeTrout · 29/08/2015 17:52

I was trying to read up on how bad the really bad symptoms of peri-meno/meno can last. It's a complete piece of string thing, isn't it?! Mild and nothing for 10 months for some women, or awful for 18 yrs for women at other end of spectrum. I don't want to worry every day "what happens if I can't have my medication". So I think I'm in the tough it out until it's over camp, but obviously only if I knew I was tough enough! I've been wrong before on that one. Irk.

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