Autumn Low Carb Bootcamp - The Questions Thread

(339 Posts)
BIWI Sun 08-Sep-13 14:12:33

Welcome everybody!

As there are lots of us signed up for the next Bootcamp, you will find that the chat thread moves very quickly! It can be the case, therefore, that questions get missed - hence starting this thread. If you have a specific question or issue, please post it here to make sure that it gets answered. I will do my best to check this thread as often as I can - and if others can answer your question then they will do so as well.

I thought it might be a good idea to start off with some FAQs that often get asked, just to help save a bit of time! So here goes:

How many carbs should I be eating per day to make sure that I lose weight?

There are a couple of points to make here. First, Bootcamp is designed to make low carbing as easy as possible. One of the things that I believe puts people off diets is having to weigh, measure and count everything that they are eating - and of course, this is impossible if you are eating out/on the go. If you make sure that you are following Bootcamp rules, then you should lose weight.

Second, we are different in terms of our ability to cope with carbohydrate. Some people can eat more carbs without gaining weight whereas others have to keep their carbs at quite a low level.

The initial 2 weeks of Bootcamp are designed to be sufficiently low carb for the vast majority of people to lose weight by following it. Although Bootcamp Light (for the remaining 8 weeks of Bootcamp) allows more carbs, it is still supposed to be relatively low carb.

Once you have completed Bootcamp and/or you have reached your target weight, then it's time to start to explore how many carbs you can tolerate before the weight goes back on. And the only way to do this is to experiment by re-introducing carbs. A gradual introduction, along with a vigilant eye on the scales/your waistband will soon tell you if you have overdone it!

Will I ever be able to eat carbs again?!

Absolutely you will - see the answer to the above question! However, if once you reach your target weight you revert back to eating the same level of carbs as you were before you started, then you will put all the weight back on. Carbs make you fat!

The best thing to do is to work out a WOE (way of eating) that keeps the carbs at a sufficiently low level such that you maintain your weight.

By the time you reach your target weight, you will also be ketogenically-adapted, i.e. your body has switched from carb-burning to fat-burning, so the odd night off will not do you too much harm.

How hard is it to eat out when you are low carbing?

It's easier to eat out when you are low carbing than if you are trying to count calories or eat a low fat diet. (As long as you don't find yourself in a restaurant that only serves pizza or pasta!)

The majority of restaurants will have something on their menu that is easily adapted for low carb eating. And it's always possible to ask them to substitute something high carb for something lower carb - so if something is on the menu being served with chips, or rice - ask if they will switch those for a salad, or extra veg. I have never been refused when I have asked this, and it is never an issue.

Some types of restaurants are harder to navigate - Thai is very difficult, not only because of the rice/noodles, but because many of their meals use sugar in the sauces as well as thickeners. At an Indian restaurant, poppadoms, rice, chappattis and naan breads are all (obviously!) out. Aim for a dry curry (so a tandoori or tikka dish), and have that with a side curry such as cauliflower, spinach or mushroom.

The best thing is to be prepared - if the restaurant has a website, have a look to see if they have posted their menu, so you have a chance to see what's available, what you can eat. And you could always ring them in advance to see if they can accommodate any particular needs that you have - mostly restaurants are happy to try and accommodate their customers.

Is it really possible to eat so much fat and still lose weight?

Oh yes! grin Just ask anyone else who has done Bootcamp! Fat doesn't make you fat. When you eat fat, your body does not produce an insulin spike - unlike when you eat carbs. It is the insulin production that causes your body to lay down fat.

We need fat. It is good for our brains and for our skin.

Also, very importantly, eating fat is very satiating. It is what will help to stop you getting hungry. It's actually quite difficult to eat masses of fat, whereas it's very easy to eat masses of carbs.

Here's a very good piece from a site that's well worth following, all about fat and why it's good for us/isn't going to harm us

Do I have to do any exercise on Bootcamp to lose weight?

Not if you don't want to. Exercise, as a means of losing weight, is way over-rated. You have to exercise a lot and frequently to lose a significant amount of weight. For example, I have recently taken up running. My last run saw me burn 390 calories. That's quite a lot - but that was after running for 30 minutes, and for 5km.

On my plan (and on the advice of my osteopath) I am only supposed to run three times a week. That would mean that in the course of a week I have burnt off 1,170 calories. Not that much in the grand scheme of things - but that's a lot of running!

Exercise can help you, but it's not essential.

I do a lot of regular exercise, and I'm advised by my trainer/the gym to eat plenty of carbs and/or to carb load before I run/cycle/train - what should I do if I'm low carbing?

Once you are ketogenically-adapted, you will be able to train quite happily whilst following a low carb diet. Your body will be using fat as its fuel source - and let's face it, most of us have plenty of fat readily available for that. Whereas with carbs, our bodies actually only store a limited amount in our muscles and our liver. Once these have gone, and we have emptied our glycogen stores, that's when you will find yourself 'hitting the wall' or 'bonking'. This is why serious athletes often have to carry various gels and drinks - so that they can replenish their carbs/glycogen very quickly. This won't happen if you are burning fat.

If you're in doubt, there's a very good book called "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" by Drs Jeff S Volek and Stephen D Phinney. Here is a description of the book from the Amazon website:

"A Revolutionary Program to Extend Your Physical and Mental Performance Envelope. Our recent book 'The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living' was written for health care professionals, championing the benefits of carbohydrate restriction to manage insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, and type-2 diabetes. In response, our athlete friends asked "What about us?" This companion book is our answer, and it could be titled: 'The Art and Science of Avoiding the BONK'. But actually, it is much much more than that. The keto-adapted athlete benefits from superior fuel flow not only when nearing glycogen depletion, but also during training, recovery, and in response to resistance exercise as well."

BIWI Sun 08-Sep-13 22:48:39

What can I eat for breakfast?

Breakfast is often a meal that low carbers find difficult.

On the one hand, it is a fabulous opportunity to indulge yourself in bacon and eggs!

But on the other, many people find that they either don't have the time/inclination to cook breakfast, or that they rapidly get tired of eggs. And obviously, bacon is a processed meat, so something we shouldn't be eating every day.

Eggs are a fabulous low carb food. And they are so versatile, so it is worth finding ways to cook them. You don't have to cook them in the morning, of course - having a ready supply of hard-boiled eggs can be invaluable. Eat them on their own, or mash them with salt, pepper and mayonnaise. Or, instead of mayonnaise, try a bit of garlic and herb Boursin cheese.

Full fat yoghurt is another good breakfast choice - lots of protein as well as fat. Total is low in carbs, at 3.8g per 100g. Try adding vanilla extract, or vanilla powder to add an element of sweetness.

But you don't have to treat breakfast as if it were a special/different meal. As long as you are eating something, that is all that matters.

You could try a continental breakfast - ham and cheese - or you could simply serve up leftovers from the previous night's dinner.

caughtintheact Mon 09-Sep-13 08:37:25

Hi smile
Is 2.5 l of water the recommended amount for any weight up to 140lbs?

I am pretty close to my goal weight and have joined bootcamp to keep me motivated for the last few lbs...I have been doing it since the beginning of summer and progress is painfully slow, but it is happening.

Any other tips for LC close to goal? Do I need to start being more careful of portion sizes?

BIWI Mon 09-Sep-13 08:41:23

That's right, caughtintheact - 2.5 litres.

As you get nearer your target, your weight loss will naturally slow down. This is the point to consider your portion sizes - although low carbing does appear to give us a calorie advantage, it is still all too easy to eat too many calories.

But make sure you're not starting to deprive yourself, and so start to get hungry again.

Well done for nearly reaching your target though! Hopefully Bootcamp will see you reach your target. How many more lbs do you have to go?

Torrorosso Mon 09-Sep-13 08:49:51

Are smoked salmon and tofu allowed please?

BIWI Mon 09-Sep-13 08:53:02

Smoked salmon is definitely allowed! It's lovely rolled around some cream cheese, or chopped into scrambled eggs. However, it does qualify as a processed food, so go easy with it - i.e. not at every meal!

Tofu is generally OK, and pretty low carb, but check the carb count on whatever pack/brand you're using.

MonstersDontCry Mon 09-Sep-13 09:06:54

Hi smile

I've already started this morning. Im not looking to lose much/any weight. I just want to be healthier and stop eating so much crap. But I'm breastfeeding a 6 week old. Will a LC diet affect him? Sorry if that's a stupid question.

BIWI Mon 09-Sep-13 09:12:54

It's not a stupid question!

As long as you are getting your carbs from plenty of veg and salad, and you are eating enough, and regularly, then I can't see how low carbing could affect your baby. After all, it's what our hunter-gatherer ancestors did before we invented bread and pasta!

BIWI Mon 09-Sep-13 09:13:57

Oh, and if you just want to eat healthily rather than lose weight, Bootcamp is unnecessarily severe. Bootcamp Light is likely to be more suitable for you - which means that you can include some fruit (berries) and nuts/seeds in your diet.

MonstersDontCry Mon 09-Sep-13 09:18:48

Thanks BIWI, that's brilliant. smile

stinkerfromhove Mon 09-Sep-13 09:22:04

I started this low carb diet on 10 August and have followed it with no slip ups. But I have lost NOTHING! How long should I give it? I weigh178 lbs and I'm 66.

BIWI Mon 09-Sep-13 09:24:05

stinkerfromhove - how tall are you?

List out for me what you have been eating/drinking over the last few days and let's see if we can help.

How do I know what counts as low enough carb? Does the 'under 3g per 100g' rule for veg apply to other foods? For example, I send a friend out for the mayo brand mentioned on the spreadsheet and she came back with aioli instead - it's listed as 1.1g of carbs per 100g, does that mean I can eat it?

doradoo Mon 09-Sep-13 11:30:40

Eggs! How many is it safe/ideal/realistic to eat a day/week?

For example - a 2egg omlette for breakfast and then more eggs at lunch - is that overkill?

janmoomoo Mon 09-Sep-13 11:56:26

Cold drinks - are there any other options than water? I have been drinking soda water which is nice. PLJ lime juice was recommended to me but it seems to have been discontinued.

Oh no, the 1.1g for the aioli was for a tablespoon, not per 100g sad it's 7g per 100g - does that mean I can't have it? sad

78bunion Mon 09-Sep-13 12:08:58

The advice on eggs even by the Government has changed from eggs bad to eggs good. I don't think you need to worry about the quantities. I eat loads - at least 3 every day, sometimes 5.

BIWI Mon 09-Sep-13 12:12:58

That is a bit high, PTT - as a general rule of thumb, if anything has a label on it, then I try to stick to under 4g carbs per 100g. That said - work out how much you're likely to use and see how many carbs that comes to. A little bit here and there probably won't hurt - but if you're sloshing it all over your food, then that's obviously not great!

Eggs are, as far as I know, doradoo, fine to eat in any quantity. But careful you just don't die of boredom! Variety is key in any diet.

janmoooo - I occasionally buy PLJ lemon juice; I haven't seen the lime one for a long time, so not sure if they still make it. However, don't have it too often as it contains some carbs. I drink sparkling water all the time, and have just got used to it. You could always try adding slices of fresh lime?

Thank you, BIWI! I can't get to the shops until tomorrow so will have a tiny bit today with lunch and get the proper mayo tomorrow.

Urgh, no diet drinks, this is the hardets part for me.

ofcoursethisisanamechange Mon 09-Sep-13 12:44:24

hi- whats the rule of thumb on herbal teas?

BIWI Mon 09-Sep-13 13:10:00

As far as I know, there are no carbs in herbal tea - but check the labels first to make sure!

BIWI Mon 09-Sep-13 13:13:36

A quick look at the range on Sainsbury's site would suggest that fruit and herbal teas can have a small amount of carbs - 0.3g per 100ml - so not that bad, unless you're drinking gallons a day!

A health question, if I may. I have mildly raised blood pressure. I am now reassured about the high fat not being a problem for bp, but am wondering about the salt. Quite a lot of the foods recommended on this WOE seem to be high in salt (and I think I read that you recommend keeping your salt levels up). Is this seen as ok because it's balanced out by the other bp-reducing benefits of low-carbing, or should I try and avoid the saltier foods?

Lifeisontheup Mon 09-Sep-13 13:40:01

Can anyone recommend a good low carb recipe book, preferably a UK one?

BIWI Mon 09-Sep-13 13:48:16

Salt is not a problem on low carbing - in the main, because we drink a lot of water, there is a risk that you can reduce your sodium levels too much.

BTW - are you on any medication for your blood pressure? If you are, you need to keep an eye on things.

Here is some info on salt and low carbing, from Dr Eades blog :

"One of the first things that happens when people go on low-carb diets is a rapid improvement in insulin sensitivity. Because the low-carb diet starts to quickly banish the insulin resistance, insulin levels fall quickly. And as insulin falls, the stimulus to the kidneys to retain fluids goes away, and the kidneys begin to rapidly release fluid. One of the common experiences at the start of low-carb dieting is the incessant running back and forth to the bathroom to urinate this excess fluid away. Which is both good news and bad news.

The good news is that it’s great to get rid of the excess fluid but it comes at a cost, which is the bad news. As the excess fluid goes, it takes with it sodium an extremely important electrolyte. When sodium levels fall below a critical threshold (which can happen within a short time), symptoms often occur, the most common being fatigue, headache, cramps and postural hypotension.

Postural hypotension happens when you stand up too quickly and feel faint. Or even pass out briefly. It’s a sign of dehydration. So if you’ve started your low-carb diet, made your multiple runs to the bathroom, and jump up off the couch to answer the phone and feel like your going to faint (or actually do pass out momentarily) and have to sit back down quickly, you’ve got postural hypotension. It’s really easy to fix – you simply need to take more sodium and drink more water. Salt your food more. Increasing sodium is just another one of the many counter-intuitive things about low-carb dieting. Just like eating more fat to lower your cholesterol. You’ve got to start thinking differently. The low-carb diet is one that absolutely requires more sodium. A lot more sodium.

If you’ve got the brutal headaches that some people get when starting on a low-carb diet, add sodium. And drink extra water.

Even if you don’t have pitting edema, postural hypotension or headaches, you still need more sodium if you are starting out on or following a low-carb diet. It’s critically important that you get extra sodium. I can’t make this case too strongly."

lifeisontheup - the only properly UK one really is the idiot-proof diet one (the cookbook that accompanies the diet book). it's got some good tasty recipes (moussaka is lovely, as is the butter chicken)

it is quite dairy-heavy though, and doesn't include carb counts or photos (if you like those things). there are also recipes that contain artificial ingredients

there is a BBC Good Food one which i wouldn't recommend as the first recipe in it contains several tsp of sugar!

low carb gourmet is good, though again quite a few recipes containing artificial ingredients, and it is north american in origin

have a look on the 'resources' tab of the spreadsheet for blogs and other books, and there is always the trusty recipe thread

Lifeisontheup Mon 09-Sep-13 14:48:14

Thanks Willie I've got the idiot proof one so will have another look at that. Really want to make a go of it this time as I failed so spectacularly last time blush

stinkerfromhove Mon 09-Sep-13 14:53:25

5'4" typically 2eggs4rashers dry cure bacon (B) smoked salmon Philadelphia 2tomatoes cucumber (Lunch) faux shepherds pie, chicory fried in butter (Dinner)100g cheese a day, handful of olives, 3cups decaf coffee with dollop of thick cream per day. Mostly following Neris&Indias idiot proof diet & cookbook so following the menus in that. No fruit bread pasta rice, pastry, sugar, sweetener, alcohol except 1 evening had vodka & soda - a party so quite a lot. started 10 august. Haven't re-measured but waistband no looser. sad

Aha - thanks BIWI! I have been reducing carbs steadily over the past week and have had quite a few dizzy moments on standing up suddenly. And yes I am on meds - very low-dose beta blockers. Does that have any implications for this WOE then? Thank you - you're a veritable mine of information!

stinkerfromhove Mon 09-Sep-13 15:01:55

Also trying to drink 3litres a day. Sometimes don't make quite that. I logged carbs etc on fitday mobile for a week and carbs were 30,30,27,35,25,34,28 with cals being 14 hundred 19,29,24,29,20,8 hundred.

BIWI Mon 09-Sep-13 15:11:26

Betablockers can hinder weight loss, holmessweetholmes, apparently. But also, if you're on medication to lower your blood pressure, and low carbing reduces your blood pressure, then you may end up with blood pressure that is too low.

Do you have a monitor at home that you could use to keep a check on your blood pressure?

pixiegumboot Mon 09-Sep-13 15:21:18

Are pickled onions and the lovely juice they come in OK? I use in a salad instead of dressing

BIWI Mon 09-Sep-13 15:23:07


typically 2eggs4rashers dry cure bacon (B) smoked salmon Philadelphia 2tomatoes cucumber (Lunch) faux shepherds pie, chicory fried in butter (Dinner)100g cheese a day

OK. Some immediate observations here - you are eating a fair amount of processed food (bacon, smoked salmon and more bacon in the shepherd's pie - assuming it's from the recipe in the IPD recipe book?)

handful of olives, 3cups decaf coffee with dollop of thick cream per day. Mostly following Neris&Indias idiot proof diet & cookbook so following the menus in that. No fruit bread pasta rice, pastry, sugar, sweetener, alcohol

The menus in the IPD book, and your daily menus, use a lot of dairy - I would suspect that you might have an issue here - you're eating a lot of cream and cheese. Try cutting this down/out for a few days.

You're also not really eating much veg or salad, so I'd try and add a little bit more (low carb) veg into your meals if you can.

except 1 evening had vodka & soda - a party so quite a lot

Whilst vodka and soda is a great, low carb drink, you will have fuelled your body with this and prevented it from burning fat. Alcohol is the easiest source of fuel for your body and it will always burn this in preference to fat. It's great that you only did it once, but it wouldn't have helped, sadly!

Also trying to drink 3litres a day. Sometimes don't make quite that

Drinking the water is important - and at your weight you should be doing 3 litres every day.

I logged carbs etc on fitday mobile for a week and carbs were 30,30,27,35,25,34,28 with cals being 14 hundred 19,29,24,29,20,8 hundred.

I don't use fitday myself, and have seen a lot of people on various Bootcamp threads post quite odd counts, so I'm always worried it's not especially accurate. And no need to worry about the calories - we don't count calories - certainly not at this stage of Bootcamp!

However, I don't really understand what your numbers mean - do you mean that they are always around 1400, so 1419, 1429, 1424, etc? Please tell me that you aren't having days when you've only eaten 800 calories?

BIWI Mon 09-Sep-13 15:24:51

I doubt it pixie! The vinegar would be fine (as long as it's not balsamic vinegar, which isn't allowed on Bootcamp, as it is too carby/sweet), but pickles are usually made with lots of sugar, so it would make the juice way too carby.

Also, there is no oil in there! Salads should be dressed with an oil-based dressing, or mayonnaise.

Secondsop Mon 09-Sep-13 15:31:19

Hello. Is beetroot not allowed?

stinkerfromhove Mon 09-Sep-13 15:35:15

Thanks BIWI! Sorry my cals were1400,1900,2900,2400,2 900, 2000 and can't remember why it was only 800 that last entry -prob forgot to add dinner! Points noted about dairy and processed.what is the best way to record diary?

BIWI Mon 09-Sep-13 15:35:36

Beetroot is very carby. The Carblife website gives the carb counts as:

Beetroot, Boiled 9.5g carbs per 100g
Beetroot, Pickled 11.2g carbs per 100g

feelinlucky Mon 09-Sep-13 15:38:45

I started last week. I don't know if I can do it. I'm so sick of fat. I feel constantly sick. I'm drowning in water. I'm worried I'm not getting enough salt. I'll happily never eat a Greek yogurt again or egg. I hate it but I'm so stubborn I ll have to do it at least another week smile sorry, just having a moan. Just ignore me.

BIWI Mon 09-Sep-13 15:41:59

What have you been eating, feelinlucky?

And if you're worried you're not getting enough salt - add more to your food?! Make yourself a drink with boiling water and Oxo/Marmite or Bovril.

Don't keep eating the same things if you don't like them, or if you're getting sick of them. There are so many lovely things that you can eat, it's silly to restrict yourself to always eating the same thing.

OMG I had the most delicious lunch though was v.hard without the Diet Coke! I had roast chicken with rocket, cherry toms, black olives, capers and little bit of aioli. YUM.

KnotInTheStomach Mon 09-Sep-13 16:04:41

I can't eat much at the moment. Rare for me.

BlackAffronted Mon 09-Sep-13 16:39:34

LifeIsOntheUp - I really like the Atkins low carb cook book, some really nice recipes.

Feelinlucky - tell us what you are eating.
You shouldn't be feeling sick after a week.
I get the drowning in water thing to start with but it really is so good for your body. As BIWI says add salt to food and I often have a cup of Bovril.
This time of year is perfect for soups so you could make some yummy veg soups and add cream to it.

The lighterside blog is really good for recipes too which is on the spreadsheet

ZingWantsCake Mon 09-Sep-13 16:44:18

I seem to have read something about a "basic shopping list" - or something similar.

did I miss something? is there a "stock up list"?

feelinlucky Mon 09-Sep-13 16:45:12

I'm sticking with it. I'm sure it will get easier. I had Greek yogurt for breakfast with a little double cream. I had scrambled egg for lunch with lots of butter. I had a spoonful of peanut butter for snacking. I've drank about 3 litres of water and one coffee with cream. I'm going to the supermarket to get lots of nice low carb veg and planning a veg chilli minus lovely beans and rice sad

ZingWantsCake Mon 09-Sep-13 16:46:01

also what about raw beetroot? is that even edible?

NewStartNewStory Mon 09-Sep-13 16:52:04

Decaff coffee vs Normal coffee. Does it make a difference? one better then the other? avoid both?

Raw beetroot is edible (have had it grated in salads before) but still too carby I think

Newstart - I have read somewhere (couldn't tell you where) that you get all the benefits of coffee (antioxidants etc) in decaf coffee, just without the caffeine. Obviously if your whole point of consuming coffee is for the caffeine then that's useless. However caffeine is thought to mess about with your blood sugar levels which wouldn't help you stay on the wagon, and caffeine is a diuretic which can leave you dehydrated. Though advice and research on all this is conflicting. So really just a case of listening to your body and what feels best for you, and how much caffeine you can tolerate. I try to avoid too much caffeine as I seem to have a ridiculously addictive personality and within a couple of days am a palpitating wreck

Only reason for avoiding coffee (decaf or otherwise) altogether is if you are trying to cut out dairy and don't like it black

have you tried cauliflower rice?
have you made a menu plan for the rest of the week>
The whole point of this WOE is that we aren't depriving ourselves

That's interesting about the beta blockers, BIWI. I haven't ever noticed an effect on my weight, but I am on the smallest possible dose. I do have a bp monitor so might check occasionally.

NewStartNewStory Mon 09-Sep-13 18:02:02

Thanks Willie Am a caffine addict, but shouldn't really drink it as only really like it sweet and milky. Will try to cut it out as much as possible and stick to decaff when I have to indugle am stuck with coffee before being able to move in the morning feeling caffine irrespective

Am I supposed to be adding as much fat as possible or just making sure that I have some? Tomorrow's dinner will have full-fat creme fraiche and parmesan in it - there are also aubergines in it ,which are normally grilled, but should I be frying them in butter to add extra fat or is there enough already?

feelinlucky Mon 09-Sep-13 18:35:38

Yes, tried cauliflower rice, it was ok. I just made a big bowl of veg chilli the main ingredients being aubergine and mushroom. I just sprinkled cheddar cheese on the top and it was really lovely. I'm just pleased to have veg. I don't eat meat so it does feel quite restrictive.

pootlebug Mon 09-Sep-13 18:43:31

Feelinlucky - if you feel 'sick of fat' i would up your intake of low carb veg - especially green veg. Have your scrambled eggs with some steamed broccoli or spinach leaves or kale etc.

When you move to bootcamp light, I find a smoothie with berries, chilled coconut milk and ice cubes all thrown in the blender doesn't taste 'fatty' but is enough to keep me full as a breakfast all on its own if I have a good size glass (am doing light as want to be healthier but only really have a couple of kilos to loose and I think that will go even doing light as I've already lost a couple of kilos doing so).

captainmummy Mon 09-Sep-13 18:46:37

Feelin - it is hard to eat too much fat, so eat what you can but make sure you have enough. It's hard to quantify, as we don't count calories or carbs or anything really! Also watch the amount of dairy as it stalls some people me included. (butter is fine)

feelinlucky Mon 09-Sep-13 18:52:24

Pootle that sounds delicious. I've only got a couple of kgs to lose too and I'm seriously considering low carbing as a woe for the future. I love that's stomach is flatter but I miss fruit so much. I could go without bread, rice and pasta but all veg and fruit I just love. I've done one week so I will definitely do another. I may even attempt three. I can't wait to move into the next stage though.

Feelinlucky - as you are vegetarian you are allowed nuts and seeds just go easy on them

Have you read the science about why it works and the myths around us needing to eat fruit. Fruit is basically sugar. Our hunter gatherer ancestors would only have eaten fruit when it wa in season, unlike nowadays when it is readily available all year round.
There are so many fab veggie recipes though - have you looked on the recipe thread or the blogs on the spreadsheet for inspiration ?

whodunnit Mon 09-Sep-13 23:36:09

Just joined but have been doing low carb for a week and have lost already, in spiteof some cockups hrough ignorance (who would have thought an avocado could have so much carb, and that meat could provoke an insulin response. Also lots of herbal teas, could be carb expensive as I have been guzzling them to replace my normal tetley tea habit)
anyway, question from me. Is it better to eat butter than olive oil? why? also is it better to eat more fat and less protein? if so, why?

thanks , hoping someone can help me ....

stinkerfromhove Tue 10-Sep-13 00:18:50

Why do people post "marking my place"?

ZingWantsCake Tue 10-Sep-13 00:32:18


it's the quickest way to make sure that thread moves into "Threads I'm on" and is easy to find later on.


I am a bit confused as to why and How meat would provoke an insulin response?

78bunion Tue 10-Sep-13 07:19:20

Protein does raise insulin levels which is why eating it in moderation (which is all most of us could ever bring ourselves to eat it anyway even if we have big steaks) is best and higher fat works for weight loss.

However it is very very hard to eat so very much protein that you get the same insulin response as with sugar so I would not worry about eating too much meat.

MonstersDontCry Tue 10-Sep-13 08:00:33

I've woken up feeling really shaky today. Is that got anything to do with starting LC yesterday? Is it normal? confused

captainmummy Tue 10-Sep-13 08:19:47

Whodunit - I don't think herbal teas have carbs in; check the box but most are carb-free.
Monsters - could be carb-flu? Weak and shaky is a response from your body to try to force you to eat sugar/carbs, as it transitions from burning carbs to buring fat. Keep going, it doesn't last long. Drink water, keep your salts up and eat something protein-y.

MonstersDontCry Tue 10-Sep-13 08:29:05

Thanks captain. I did think that's what it was. I just wasn't expecting to get carb flu this early. It's quite scary how addicted to sugar I must be!

Dreamingofcakeallnight Tue 10-Sep-13 09:12:05

Hi - does anyone have links to low carb recipes that can be done in a slow cooker? Feeling like hot, warming food so would like to get some ideas. Thanks smile

dreaming, quite a few on the recipe thread including:

- slow-cooked coconut ginger pork
- slow-cooked breast of lamb
- pork vindaloo
- chicken/lamb/beef tikka masala (bootcamp light as contains nuts)
- beef casserole
- sausage casserole
- mild minced beef curry
- beef bourguignon
- creamy pesto chicken

and i'm just about to add a recipe for 'carnitas' (a bit like pulled pork)

BIWI Tue 10-Sep-13 09:51:16

whodunnit - if you're using olive oil cold, as in a dressing, then it's as good as butter. The issue comes when you heat olive oil, when it's less good for you. Best, if you can, to cook either with butter, lard (if you can buy non-hydrogenated) or coconut oil. Coconut oil can be expensive, though, unless you have a big supermarket with a world foods aisle, or live near an Asian supermarket

pixiegumboot Tue 10-Sep-13 13:43:32

thanks for all help so farsmile re sausages, can I eat these: about 66g per sausage, carbs 12.4g per 100g, 77% pork.

BIWI Tue 10-Sep-13 13:53:16

No - that's way too carby. Look for The Black Farmer sausages, or have a look at individual products within Sainsbury's Taste the Difference range, or Tesco's Finest Range.

Nutritional info for Black Farmer sausages:

Nutritional Information per 100g

Energy 998kj/241kcal
Protein 14.8g
Carbohydrate 1.0g
of which sugars 0.5g
Fat 19.7g
of which saturates 8.6g
Dietary Fibre 0.6g
Salt 1.3g
of which Sodium 0.67g

halfthesize Tue 10-Sep-13 14:03:27

Aldi also do a range of sausages that are very low carb and quite a bit cheaper, normally 6 to a pack.

I just got some sausages in Asda (their own extra special range) that were 2.4g per 100g - just in case anyone finds the Black Farmer ones hard to get hold of.

I lost 3lbs overnight! Obviously it's just water at this stage (haven't stopp weeing smile) but I'm still happy!

BIWI Tue 10-Sep-13 17:47:23

Woo hoo!

BIWI Tue 10-Sep-13 17:49:37

Oh, and it's not just water:

"The First Week

The first week of a low-carbohydrate diet is a special case. The body has been using primarily glucose for energy, and must switch to using primarily fat. This means that it's the least comfortable time (Here are some tips to help you over that hurdle), but it also means that a few pounds will be lost that are not fat, but water. This is not because of being bloated, but because the glucose which is stored for easy use in our livers is in a molecule called glycogen, which is bound up with a lot of water. When we use the glucose, our bodies get rid of the extra water. In the normal course of a regular diet with stable weight, the amount of glycogen fluctuates only a little, but during weight loss, and especially weight loss from low-carb diets, the amount of glycogen is reduced, and with it, the water.

From this site

BIWI Tue 10-Sep-13 17:50:09
whodunnit Tue 10-Sep-13 19:16:09

Thanks BIWI

I am just too curious as to the reasons why is eating fat good? Is it better than protein, or do we just need both? And if I eat lots of fat or protein, does my body use these up before it starts burning up my own body fat? Should I be eating less as my body fat gets used up sooner? Sorry I should get a book and read it up. But BIWI you seem to have all the answers and I don't have a book.....

I know you said somewhere that exercise is less use than this diet as your 3 running sessions only burn up 1500 calories. But surely that helps, or have we switched over to such a different system here? I am confused (and wondering whether to pack in my new habit of walking to work)


whodunnit Tue 10-Sep-13 19:17:10

And I checked my herbal tea packets and found they had 0.5g carb for 100ml.....sob....plain water for me then

pixiegumboot Tue 10-Sep-13 19:17:49

thanks. now ham as processed food I get. what about a piece of gammon, or gammon steak? is that viewed in the same eat but go easy way?

Roobot Tue 10-Sep-13 19:32:56

Hi BIWI and other knowledgable peeps...
Is coconut milk/ cream allowed at this stage. I was thinking abt making a curry!
Thanks v much smile

Lifeisontheup Tue 10-Sep-13 20:59:56

Whodunnit I checked my herbal tea (fennel) and it's 0.1g carbs per serving which I take to mean one teabag.
What sort are you drinking?

halfthesize Tue 10-Sep-13 21:28:11
halfthesize Tue 10-Sep-13 21:28:45

link has carb content, but always check back of packet as they vary.

BIWI Tue 10-Sep-13 21:51:44

Blue Dragon Coconut Milk - 3.4g carbs per 100ml
Blue Dragon Cocnut Cream - 1.8g carbs per 100ml

They're pretty low in carbs - but avoid Creamed Coconut. I can't find the carb count for that at the moment, but it's really high.

feelinlucky Wed 11-Sep-13 08:46:46

Hi all, I started last Monday and lost 4 pounds in the first 5 days but I've stalled now. I did have a relapse on Saturday but even based on the number if calories I ate and the amount of exercise I did I should have still lost a little. I'm wondering if I should just try a low calorie diet. I'm still struggling to get my head round how all this fat can helpe lose weight. Can I just list what I aye yesterday to get an idea if I'm doing the right thing? B: full fat Greek yogurt with a little double cream. One coffee with cream. L: tiny bowl of veg chilli and matchbox bit of cheese. Snack: teaspoon peanut butter and small handful of plain cashew , D: 3 egg omelette cooked in butter with mushrooms and small amount of grated cheese. Supper: cup of cabbage soup. I drank at least 2.5 maybe 3 litres of water. I recorded everything on mfp and the calories are quite low, carbs under 50 and fat content high. I wonder if because the cals are so low it's slowing down my metabolism? I absolutely feel as if I have a flatter stomach and feel less bloated, so there are definite benefits. I just want to make sure I'm doing it right. It feels like a big commitment right now for very little gain.

feelinlucky Wed 11-Sep-13 08:47:59

Oh, and I never feel hungry. Yay smile

BIWI Wed 11-Sep-13 08:55:01


You have been doing this for only a week, and you have lost 4 pounds already - that is fantastic. You haven't stalled. You can't expect to continue losing weight at that rate all the time. Weight loss isn't linear.

When you say you 'had a relapse' I presume this means that you ate too many carbs? If you did, then you will have undone the work that you did in the previous week.

B: full fat Greek yogurt with a little double cream. One coffee with cream. L: tiny bowl of veg chilli and matchbox bit of cheese. Snack: teaspoon peanut butter and small handful of plain cashew , D: 3 egg omelette cooked in butter with mushrooms and small amount of grated cheese. Supper: cup of cabbage soup. I drank at least 2.5 maybe 3 litres of water

Breakfast is fine - although keep an eye on the amount of dairy you're consuming - it can be an issue for some of us

Lunch - Why 'tiny'? There is no need on this WOE to deprive yourself. We are not calorie counting!

Snack - nuts aren't allowed on Bootcamp. Peanut butter squeaks in as allowable, but the cashews certainly aren't - and a handful of cashews will have been very carby

Dinner looks fine, although you could have done with some veg to go with that - a salad dressed with an oily dressing would have been perfect

Supper - well, if you're having to snack and eat supper, this suggest that you're not eating enough during the day - and if your lunch portion was tiny, this would be why!

I recorded everything on mfp and the calories are quite low, carbs under 50 and fat content high. I wonder if because the cals are so low it's slowing down my metabolism?

You aren't eating enough! And please - stop counting the calories Low carbing is not about counting calories, nor is about depriving yourself or going hungry.

I absolutely feel as if I have a flatter stomach and feel less bloated, so there are definite benefits. I just want to make sure I'm doing it right. It feels like a big commitment right now for very little gain

You really need to do some reading to help you get head around this way of eating. It's hard, because it runs so counter to everything that we have been told over the last 30 years or so. But you've started really well. Go to the spreadsheet and find the resources tab at the bottom and have a read of some of the stuff linked to there. If you can, buy/borrow a copy of "Escape the Diet Trap" by Dr John Briffa - this will give you a really good grounding in low carbing and why it is so much better for us (from a health perspective as well as for lowing weight) than going low calorie.

You do, however, need to be patient. Sadly, the weight will not magically drop off you and you do need to follow Bootcamp rules.

Stick with it! And good luck. flowers

feelinlucky Wed 11-Sep-13 09:13:10

Haha, that made me laugh. Ok, sorry, forgot to mention I had a big rocket and spinach salad with 4 baby plum tomatoes with my omelette. Someone earlier said as I'm a vege I can have a little nuts, so now I know that's not the case I won't have them. I only had supper because I made a big pot of creamy cabbage soup and wanted a bowl but never usually eat supper. I only had a small lunch because that was all that was left and didn't get time to make the scrambled egg I planned. I have very little appetite right now, it's a very strange feeling because I'm normally scoffing biscuits and nuts. There's been no scoffing at all. I'm cracking on and constantly learning. I have been reading honest. I haven't managed to get on my laptop to check our the spreadsheet and unlikely to get on until tomorrow. Someone recommended planning, so that's my next task smile thanks for that great post smile

NorkyButNice Wed 11-Sep-13 09:26:26

Hello fellow LC-ers.

Is there anyone here who has had their gall-bladder removed? Mine was taken out last year and I've not had any troubles since so I didn't consider it something I needed to consult my GP about before starting the new WOE.

But last night just after going to bed, I had the most unbelievable pains in my back/stomach area that went on for hours, the only reason I didn't call an ambulance was because it felt so similar to the pains I'd had with the gall stones and they do say that you can very occasionally have the pain again after the operation.

Does anyone have any experience?

stinkerfromhove Wed 11-Sep-13 09:27:11

struggling with cold snacks & brekkers- trying to keep dairy and processed meats low. Nuts and seeds out. ??!!

No time to read through, please tell me avocados are ok?

stinkerfromhove Wed 11-Sep-13 09:32:59

"Go to the spreadsheet and find the resources tab at the bottom and have a read of some of the stuff linked to there." BIWI or Willy

Afraid I can't find the resources tab. Can you help please?

norky, no personal experience but this mentions low carbing with gall bladder removed (at the very bottom) - it suggests perhaps easing into eating higher fat, to get the body used to processing it.

if i'm right you can still process fat without a gall bladder as bile is made in the liver, it just doesn't have the gall bladder to store the bile in (correct me if i've got this wrong!)? so perhaps it was liver pain you experienced. so maybe adjusting your diet in a slightly slower way might be more comfortable for you?

i'm not a doctor though so if you are worried and it keeps happening do seek medical advice!

stinker you might need to scroll right to find the tab with the resources on - there should be left/right arrows on the bottom right of your screen. if you click the right-hand one the tabs will scroll across and you should see the 'low carb resources' one

ohfuck - according to this they are 1.9g per 100g so definitely ok. and full of lovely fat and potassium and other goodies so go right ahead!

stinkerfromhove Wed 11-Sep-13 09:45:13

WillieWD - I'm at cell BS:206 - can't see resource tab????

stinkerfromhove Wed 11-Sep-13 09:46:21

WWD - ooh got them - very pale on my screen! Sorry.

BIWI Wed 11-Sep-13 09:48:48

feelinlucky - sorry blush I had forgotten that you are a veggie! You can, of course, have nuts and seeds if you are a veggie. Just keep an eye on the carbs - cashews are quite carby. If you can, get some macadamias and/or almonds.

Thank you! Phew, I ate half a big one anyway!

stinkerfromhove Wed 11-Sep-13 09:51:13

Wille WD Thank you - brilliant resource tabs - just what I needed!

BIWI Wed 11-Sep-13 09:52:16

And yay! to not feeling hungry. A key sign that you are in ketosis, so burning fat!

feelinlucky if you're going to have nuts unfortunately cashews are among the worst carbwise i think!

macadamias are better, but really only have a small amount, i find them like crack and once i start i can't stop...

you've only been following this WOE for less than 10 days, so i would give it a bit more of a chance. despite what some people believe, it's not a quick-fix diet, though you do often get a high (and motivating) loss in the first week or so. after that you will probably find that some weeks you lose several pounds, and others you lose nothing (or even gain, if, say, you've got your period or something) - as BIWI says weight loss isn't linear and the body has processes going on that mean that you won't always see a change on the scales, and sometimes, seemingly inexplicably, you will. are you taking measurements with a tape measure? it's worth doing, as you may be losing inches despite the scales not playing ball

these are the veggie low carb rules (from the spreadsheet) - nuts aren't banned for vegetarians, but there should be caution about them if you are trying to lose weight:

1.Eat three, proper meals a day.
You must eat breakfast. It doesn’t have to be a lot, but you must have something. For the rest of the day, if you’re eating enough food and you are in ketosis then you shouldn’t be hungry. But if you are hungry, eat something. (Hard boiled eggs make a great snack)

2.Avoid processed food
Focus on pure, natural ingredients as the basis for your meals. Vegetarian Sausages and Burgers are ok in small quantities, but check the carb count as some can be very high. Avoid foods marketed as 'Low Carb' such as Atkins Daybreak Bars, etc.

3.Eat lots of fat.
Eating fat helps you to burn fat. Honestly! Fry in butter, add butter to vegetables, eat salad with a home-made vinaigrette dressing (not made with balsamic vinegar though, as this is too sweet), add mayonnaise where you can (just check the carb count on your mayo first). Absolutely no low fat/light foods of any kind!

4.Make sure you are eating plenty of vegetables and salads with your food
This is where most of your carbs should come from, and this is non-negotiable. But choose only those vegetables that are on the allowed list. You don’t have to weigh/count carbs – this is one of the great joys of this WOE (way of eating), but if you’re new to low carbing it can be helpful to weigh your portions of veg in the early days, just so that you know how many carbs are in the sort of portions that you like to eat

5.Be careful about dairy (apart from butter, which is unlimited).
It can impede weight loss for some people. If you are still drinking tea/coffee with milk or cream, try to restrict yourself to max 2 cups per day. You may eat cheese, but don't overdo it. Full fat yoghurt is the best way to include dairy in your diet - but beware, it does contain carbs. Total Full Fat is the best.

6.You must drink a minimum of 2 litres of water per day.
The more weight you have to lose, the more water you should drink

7.No alcohol
If you really can't do this - at least try and restrict it to the weekend. Vodka with soda is the best thing to drink. Or Champagne, red wine or dry white wine.

8.No fruit
Really. Seriously. Honestly. None at all. Zilch. Nada.

9.Beware of Nuts and Seeds.
Nuts are a very good way to include more fat and protein in your diet, however some are very high carb (e.g. Cashews). Stick to small amounts of Almonds, Brazil Nuts, Dried Coconut, Walnuts, Seeds and Peanut Butter, but check the ingredients, many supermarket brands have sugar added.

10.No sugar or artificial sweeteners

feelinlucky Wed 11-Sep-13 10:30:35

I've just had half an avocado 'twas lovely smile

NorkyButNice Wed 11-Sep-13 10:36:41

Thanks Willie. Interesting article, I'll have a good read of the comments. I would rather be chubby than go back to having gall bladder attacks again though!

Torrorosso Wed 11-Sep-13 13:56:51

I know I shouldn't, but I have weighed every day since Monday and have lost precisely nowt.

By tracking on MFP, I can see my carbs are about 40-50g a day, but many thousands of calories.

I know calories aren't supposed to matter, but am I being too greedy with portion sizes and fat?

I have had some dairy - 2 cups of decaf with cream a day and a cuppa with semi skimmed milk. No cheese until today, when I had full fat soft cheese with avocado and smoked salmon for breakfast.

Lunch is a salad with home made mayo, egg, chicken and anchovies.

Dinner will be cod and allowed veg.

I am drinking plenty of water.

I don't have much to lose - maybe 5lb, but I'm in my 50s and peri menopausal.

Should I be more patient, or cut dairy and/or portion sizes, especially fat?

I have sent for some ketostix.

pixiegumboot Wed 11-Sep-13 14:09:33

hello, any answers to gammon/gammon steak? I am not hungry I'd like to report! First time in bloody ages.

halfthesize Wed 11-Sep-13 14:25:27

pixie I think Gammon is classed as processed meat, but I could be wrong. hmm

BIWI Wed 11-Sep-13 15:21:32

Gammon is processed - but as long as you're not having it at every meal/every day, it's fine.

Sad about Gammon, but then it's not like it's every day.

torrorosso I'm a newbie and I'm sure BIWI will be along soon, but, I'd give it at least a whole week. I'd also say that you may need to UP your fat intake, not reduce it. Not sure how age/menopause affect things.

Good luck.

And here she is!

BIWI Wed 11-Sep-13 15:24:49

Torrorosso - we're only on day 3, and only just half way through day 3 at that!!!!

If you only have 5lbs to lose, then your weight loss will be slower.

That said, if that's all you have to lose, then I'd look to cut your carbs down a bit more. However, looking at your menu, I fail to see how you could possibly have eaten 50g carbs! Where does MFP say all your carbs are coming from?

Don't cut the fat.

You may want to consider portion sizes, but personally I'd get the amount of carbs right first. (Unless you think you're eating too much, of course?)

Those who are weighing daily make sure you messure yourselves as some weeks you won't lose at all I the scales but will lose inches

Yes inches!!

Torrorosso Wed 11-Sep-13 17:53:57

Thanks. Off to find tape measure. I will be patient until Monday and then start weighing veggies if necessary. I don't think my carbs are too much - but am finding it hard to get my head around eating unlimited fat.

feelinlucky Wed 11-Sep-13 18:01:31

Torro, me too. I'm finding the day bit a real turn off, my appetite is practically nil. I'm giving it my all but I'm not sure this is for me. I've done a week and I ll do one more but then I will definitely more to the lighter programme. I'm not capable of doing this long term. I have a headache again ands skin doesn't look great. My body might not need it but I'm yearning for fruit. I had some lovely tomatoes today and cucumber slices with mackerel pâté, the fresh salad vegs nearly made me cry with joy smile of course if I gave in I wouldn't eat lovely fresh fruit and veg all the time, I'd get the choc biscuits out and have a bowl of chips! I guess I'm moving past the denial stage smile

ofcoursethisisanamechange Wed 11-Sep-13 18:08:04

are we allowed whipped cream (real stuff - not from a can)?

feelinlucky Wed 11-Sep-13 18:09:43

Fat bit not day bit smile

Feelinlucky- I have roseacea and my skin has never looked better. Thrush has gone and I have loads more energy

But wecan have fresh veg. I'm confused.

I'm feelings loads better! Not bloated, persistent thrush gone, hair glossy (like a dog grin) and I've never felt hungry.

For years I've searched for a woe that is for me. Found it!

pixiegumboot Wed 11-Sep-13 18:54:53

I just don't feel hungry. I'm not constantly thinking about food. I didn't even fancy my sons chips today!

pixiegumboot Wed 11-Sep-13 19:29:13

sorry another question.... any handbag ready low carb snacks...that aren't egg. I would usually just have a biscuit when the kids do but won't now. any other ideas?

Some people are reporting a reduction in bloating etc but I'm finding the reverse atm sad. Is it normal to feel a bit bloaty and - ahem - windy at the start of this WOE? Or am I just the odd one out?!

Torrorosso Wed 11-Sep-13 20:25:42

I have just been to a weigh-in at thw gym and have lost body fat since last time I weighed!

A question - my ketostix have arrived. I know they're not essential for this woe, but, for those who have used them, what is the best time of day to do the test? Do you do it before or after eating?

silverangel Wed 11-Sep-13 21:05:25

A quick question about cheese - is philly / boursin that type of thing ok?

janx Wed 11-Sep-13 22:31:46

Where is the spreadsheet? Thanks

Will try and answer some q's

I think with ketostix best used in the morning

Full fat Philly/Boursin is fine.
Some people do stall with dairy so its about working out what's right for your body

Snacks - pork scratchings?
To be honest I was the worlds worst snacker but I truly don't need to on this WOE. When I do it's when I have been eating higher catbs and knock myself out of ketosis.

Spreadsheet is on the main bootcamp thread - entitled week1. Sorry cant link on phone

Torrorosso Thu 12-Sep-13 07:26:05

Thanks justasmallgless. I can report I am apparently in ketosis then - a nice pink strip this morning.

Torrorosso Thu 12-Sep-13 07:41:39

And I have lost 1lb since Monday grin

spreadsheet is here

captainmummy Thu 12-Sep-13 08:19:37

Feelinglucky my appetite is practically nil. - is this a bad thing? It will stop you snacking, for one thing, and it is evidence that your body is burning fat!
I went from eating every 2 hours or so (high-carb, low-fat) and now can go from 730 to 3pm without getting that faint, shaky, starving feeling. When you eat high-carb, it raises your blood sugar levels - and then they crash a few hours later, leaving you starving and craving more carbs. Eating fat and protein levels out your blood sugars, so you don't get that crash.
Gless -I had rosacea too, and my skin is so much better on this WOE.

MCspammer Thu 12-Sep-13 09:59:38

Soup Question:

Very confused about soup. Broccoli and Cauliflower soup to be precise which are on the approved vegetable list. Homemade with chicken stock, very very small shallot, garlic, butter, herbs and spices. Comes out as 8g carb per bowl shock Surely this is too many carbs in one sitting and yet it's just permitted veg and water?

Is it allowed on first two weeks of bootcamp? If not what soup can I have because I LOVE soup.

BIWI Thu 12-Sep-13 10:15:10

How much did the broccoli, cauliflower and shallot weigh overall, MCspammer? (love your name!)

charlie7 Thu 12-Sep-13 10:21:31

Just a quick q, I'm doing well so far this week and def losing weight, not much time to keep up with the main thread though, however I am going to the loo a lot. Had to get up in middle of the night for a wee! I know it's because I'm drinking all the water I should be, but does this continue? Should I need the toilet less as we go on? Thanks in advance!

MCspammer Thu 12-Sep-13 10:22:46

why thank you BIWI ... you can't touch this cake

Brocoli was about 300g and cauli about 200g ish. So that's a combined weight of 100g per bowl confused

you haven't said yes straight off which worries me

captainmummy Thu 12-Sep-13 10:24:37

Charlie - you do start off going all the time as your body is releasing water stored in fat cells too - and hopefully these are not being replenished! It does get better (but i can't drink after 8pm otherwise I am up in the night - tht may be my age!)

captainmummy Thu 12-Sep-13 10:27:51

Did you make the stock too? Stock cubes range from 4-10g/100g.

MCspammer Thu 12-Sep-13 10:35:50

I didn't make the stock no, it's was one of those Knorr stock pots.

So just to be clear then a bowl of soup that has 8g carbs in it is a no go? but why not if you stay under say 20g carb a day confused again

charlie7 Thu 12-Sep-13 10:40:22

Thank you Captain, and maybe I need to not drink later on too, good point! I'm just quite thirsty that's all.

BIWI Thu 12-Sep-13 10:41:13

Where did you get your carb counts from?

300g broccoli = 3.3g carbs
200g cauliflower = 3.8g carbs
Total - 7.1g carbs, plus the carbs in the shallots and the stock cube

Divided by however many bowls that amount served.

captainmummy Thu 12-Sep-13 10:41:14

Where did you get the carb count from? Is it MFP or the like? I do find that I don't agree with a lot of their carb-counts. Have you looked at the 'allowed' veg section on the spreadsheet and totted it up yourself?
I suppose 8g in one meal is not bad? Does it have cream/butter in to fill you up? grin

pootlebug Thu 12-Sep-13 10:47:12

MCSpammer - not sure on the carb count thing on your soup, but would recommend creamy soups made with either coconut milk or double cream. Adds some fat to give you energy, and keep you full in a way that veggies and water just won't.

MCspammer Thu 12-Sep-13 10:55:50

yes MFP

300g broccoli comes out at 20g carb and 200g cauilflower as 11g carb, 8g for the stock pot and then obviously there's a couple in shallot and garlic and.

So! what the fuck with MFP then?

MCspammer Thu 12-Sep-13 10:58:38

sorry to bang on about this but I'm really not clear about "total" carbs for the day and whether there is an upper limit to how many you should eat in one sitting i.e. at what point do you get an insulin response?

I'm not trying to be difficult I'm just trying to understand

MCspammer Thu 12-Sep-13 11:05:02

so having whizzed through a number of options on MFP it seems that 100g broccoli is pitched at anything from 2g/100g right up to 36g which is obviously ridiculous. Arrrgghh so annoyed (even though actually I see that a bowl of my soup is fine!) How can these numbers vary so much and which is the right one? how do we know. BIWI where do you get your figures from as they seem the most sensible and I would like to look at the source for other info


MCspammer Thu 12-Sep-13 11:05:34

blush do I get the award for the most annoying poster of this thread? blush

Torrorosso Thu 12-Sep-13 11:16:53

BIWI will correct me if wrong I'm sure, but total carbs per day are whatever works for you.

I believe Atkins is ridiculously low at 20g, but apparently up to 40 to 60 will see you lose weight, even up to 100g if you're very active. That's my understanding, but I may be wrong.

I'm having about 40g a day and seem to be in ketosis and losing weight even though I only have a few pounds to lose.

janx Thu 12-Sep-13 11:17:11

Thanks have added weight to spreadsheet now

BIWI Thu 12-Sep-13 11:28:51

MCspammer - Is MFP American? If so, then they include fibre in their carb counts, which is why they are so high.

My carb counts come (mainly) from this site , but I also have a couple of books that I sometimes reference.

Torrorosso is right - everyone is different in terms of the amount of carbs that they can tolerate. Atkins is only 20g for his induction period, which he advises is for 2 weeks - then after that, you add 5g carbs per day until you find the point at which your weight loss stops and you start to gain weight.

Whilst we don't count/weigh on Bootcamp (unless you really want to!), the idea behind the first two weeks is that your carbs will be significantly lower than they would be normally, and you will probably be eating around 20-50g carbs per day. Dr Briffa would say that anything under 100g should see you losing weight, but I know that for some people that is too high. Others can cope with it - you just have to work it out for yourself, I'm afraid.

MCspammer Thu 12-Sep-13 11:54:09

aha! I think MFP is an American site

thanks for the link to the site, much better and I'm clear now on the daily carb issue - phew! panic over

CJCregg Thu 12-Sep-13 12:27:22

Marking place. I have lots of questions grin

BIWI Thu 12-Sep-13 12:34:08


captainmummy Thu 12-Sep-13 13:40:09

MFP is an american site - so you need to add the column for 'fibre' to your results, and then take off this amount. Should be a bit more reassuring!

I used to use MFP but then i got bored with the RED Fat totals and the shock/horror of 'if you carrying on eating like this you will put on/lose xx lbs in xx days' - I just want the totals, thanks!

Lifeisontheup Thu 12-Sep-13 13:41:08

I've just been round to a friends for coffee and had coffee with cream and cinnamon, it was lovely and stopped me wanting sugar in my coffee.

Is cinnamon ok or does it provoke an insulin response?

captainmummy Thu 12-Sep-13 13:53:15

Cinnamon is fine - you can also have it sprinkled over ff greek yog and it's divine

Snatchoo Thu 12-Sep-13 14:05:39

captain I just had some of that and it was ok.

What else can I have in natural yoghurt? I just can't choke it down with nothing in it. I'm bored of eggs/eggs and bacon/bacon for breakfast, leftovers from dinnertime are used for lunch.

Snatchoo Thu 12-Sep-13 14:09:12

Also, you can turn off that annoying 'you will lose...' thing on MFP on the iphone app, I'm going to see if you can turn it off on the website....

I'm finding MFP useful as surprisingly, I'm eating well under calorie-wise most days. I'm barely touching calories until dinnertime. Then it goes up grin

captainmummy Thu 12-Sep-13 15:04:24

Snatchoo - lots of people use vanilla essence or powder in ff greek yog - I don't cos i like it as it is (too much!)
After the first 2 weeks of bootcamp you can add a few berries?

Snatchoo Thu 12-Sep-13 15:14:39

Ta. Will try the vanilla tomorrow I think.

PS - can't find how to turn off that annoying thing on MFP online sad have turned it off on the app though!

I like extra thick double cream with my ff yoghurt. grin God I love this diet!

pixiegumboot Fri 13-Sep-13 12:47:39

So if I have a glass or two of red wine tonight will it be bad....

captainmummy Fri 13-Sep-13 12:53:29

Pixie - you know what BIWI will say! NO alcohol on Bootcamp!

ofcoursethisisanamechange Fri 13-Sep-13 13:11:17

help- am sooooooooooo tired- just had lovely lunch- quite heavy- beef, cramed spinach and cauliflower, and a little peice of blue cheese. Now I cannot keep my eyes open (at work)- usually would have a milky latte or some pudding for the sugar rush. I don't have things here to make a bulllet coffee- any suggestions??

captainmummy Fri 13-Sep-13 13:48:54

Doesn't sound too heavy, Ofcourse. Maybe it's just that 'friday' feeling? grin Fresh air? Normal coffee? Don't reach for the biscuits - they'll make your feel even more tired in half an hour.

janx Fri 13-Sep-13 14:32:42

Aaaaargh I really want it biscuit!

ofcoursethisisanamechange Fri 13-Sep-13 14:49:30

went for a walk and had a berocca.... can't handle black coffee.... ugh will be a long afternoon......

pixiegumboot Fri 13-Sep-13 16:22:15

Right you lot - this is why i need wine, i've just trawled sainsburys tescos and asda. No coconut flour, no coconut oil, no flaxmeal. FFS!!! and its bloody raining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pixiegumboot Fri 13-Sep-13 16:45:22

oh and no liquid bloody egg white either

pixie, if it helps, none of those things is essential for low carbing by any means - they're more optional extras

pixiegumboot Fri 13-Sep-13 17:23:43

it doesn't help but thanks anyway. it was for my tea tonight bugger it. if everyone else is having pizza then I want some too boo hoo

for pizza i use the 'pizza quiche' recipe, which is cheese, egg and cream based:

115g full fat cream cheese
4 large eggs
80ml double cream
130g grated parmesan
2 x 125g balls mozzarella, chopped into small pieces (keep in their separate 125g quantities)
enough passata/low carb tomato sauce of your choice to spread as a topping
additional low carb toppings of your choice

preheat oven to 180C/350F/Gas mark 4. butter a large baking/roasting dish (approx. 13 x 9 in but doesn't have to be exact)

blend together cream cheese and eggs until smooth. add cream, parmesan and 1 of the chopped balls of mozzarella

pour into baking dish. and bake for 30 minutes until edges are just starting to brown and mixture seems 'set'. remove from the oven and increase the temperature to 220C/425F/Gas mark 7

spread the tomato sauce over the pizza base and add your toppings and the other chopped mozzarella ball

return to the oven and cook for 10 minutes or so, until the cheese is bubbling

some people find it a bit eggy, but i don't, and it's delicious the next day cold!

btw - it is very dairy-heavy (and makes four servings) - so best not to have too much other dairy on the same day

pixiegumboot Fri 13-Sep-13 18:02:53

sounds completely perfect thanks very much!!!

halfthesize Fri 13-Sep-13 19:30:51

Eve, just checking in, another good day but totm has arrived joy!!!!

B-scrambled egg with chilli flakes
L - burger and salad
D - will be chilli beef stir fry

Lots of water also and a couple of coffees.

halfthesize Fri 13-Sep-13 19:44:36

sorry wrong thread blush

PMMummy Fri 13-Sep-13 19:50:20

Quick question, anyone experienced their periods arriving earlier whilst low carbing ? I've just noticed slight bleeding and not due for another week???

losenotloose Fri 13-Sep-13 21:14:51

Sorry to put this on this thread as well as my own, just want to make sure it gets answered!

I've been low carbing for 3 weeks, bootcamping since yesterday. I've had one incidence of bad palpitations and the rest of the time a kind of tight, heavy feeling in my chest. Is this anything to worry about/normal? Should I stop low carbing?

Pm mummy- yes I posted this the other days the only drawback for me with this WOE was going back to having periods. I'm on the mirena coil so it was a bit of a shock but it only lasted 2-3 cycles then back to. Normal

Losenotloose - this isn't a symptom of low carbing.
Have you experienced this before? I would recommend getting checked out

losenotloose Fri 13-Sep-13 21:35:14

Well, only one when pregnant with ds2, but literally once. Didn't get it checked out or anything because it never happened again.

PMMummy Fri 13-Sep-13 22:18:17

Just - thanks for replying, did a bit of googling and it looks to be a common occurrence on lc.

Pmmummy I think it can be to do with the various hormones that are involved in fat metabolism and other processes and their knock-on effect

Losenotloose that's not usual a symptom I've heard of and it does sound a bit of a worry

pixiegumboot Sat 14-Sep-13 08:24:31

well I'm on the injection, haven't had a period for 5 years due to this & breastfeeding, woke up this am bleeding. not happy.

BIWI Sat 14-Sep-13 09:13:30

losenotloose have a read of this thread

It could be an electrolyte issue, especially potassium. here are some foods which are high in potassium

How much water are you drinking?

I would suggest that you try and eat as much of this food as you can over the next couple of days and see if that makes any difference - but I'd also recommend that you see your doctor as soon as you can. Whilst palpitations sound like they can affect people who are low carbing (until their electrolyte balance is sorted out), a tight, heavy feeling in your chest doesn't sound right.

Yddraigoldragon Sat 14-Sep-13 09:50:11

Anyone tried rosewater in total yoghurt? I have a little bottle from Sainsbo but no idea of carb count. Orange oil worked well, bit of a change from vanilla.

losenotloose Sat 14-Sep-13 10:12:12

Thanks, BIWI, I'll start eating more avocado, salmon and spinach. If no improvement, I'll see my gp.

losenotloose Sat 14-Sep-13 12:00:13

Sorry, another question! Doesn't the brain need carbohydrates to run on?

BIWI Sat 14-Sep-13 14:24:44

Well if it did, many of us here would be in trouble!

BIWI Sat 14-Sep-13 14:30:52

This is worth a read

But no, the brain doesn't need carbohydrate to function. It needs glucose, and it can get that from fat and protein. It comes more easily from fat, which is one of the reasons that we should eat a high fat diet.

CJCregg Sat 14-Sep-13 14:53:24

Can I ask about the flour? I've seen people mention coconut flour - wondered if any other ones were allowed. I've got some courgette flowers that I want to stuff with ricotta grin but they need to be fried in something that will give them a bit of batter ...

pootlebug Sat 14-Sep-13 16:01:24

There's a list of flours here with carbs for each (you need the net carbs, not the one including fibre, I think).

Coconut flour is nice and fine so good for that kind of thing I find (whereas coarser, wetter almond meal good in things, but not so good for coating things, I find.

pixiegumboot Sat 14-Sep-13 16:45:50

just checked the carb count for coconut flour. is it ok to use? I am actually going to make my own using up some dessicated coconut from the cupboard since i can't find any anywhere for love nor money. Well, actually lots of money but £13 for 5Kg is not good. This WOE is expensive.

Losenotloose - I have had some palpitations over the last week or so too. I am wondering if it's because this WOE is lowering my blood pressure. I've had palpitations before and had them checked out. Doc said they were quite common and that mine were nothing to worry about. I'm on medication for slightly high bp though (used to be very high). BIWI said this WOE combined with the meds might make my bp low. Hope yours stop soon!smile

giraffeseatpineapples Sat 14-Sep-13 19:03:15

Pixie holland and barret sell coconut oil, flax and coconut flour you would need to order online (i havent tried these - tend to stick with ground almonds). Looking on here for inspiration! I am doing paleo but need to cut out nuts and bits and takes things lower carb for a while if I want to be slim for crimb

giraffeseatpineapples Sat 14-Sep-13 19:05:32

Dessicated coconut has a different water content so it might be too dry

losenotloose Sat 14-Sep-13 20:05:20

Thanks holmessweetholmes. I started to feel quite worried so had some berries with Greek yogurt, seems to have helped a bit actually!

pixiegumboot Sat 14-Sep-13 20:52:46

thanks giraffe have also found on Amazon and eBay :-)

Pixiegumboot - do you have an Asian supermarket near you as you can find products in there. I do the bulk of my LC shopping at Lidl and aldi now and my shopping bill has decreased on this woe. No ready meals and of much processed crap, the veg is fab in there although never seen celeriac yet!

pixiegumboot Sun 15-Sep-13 07:34:09

yes went yesterday but nothing doing. I might try aldi for meat & cheese

CatherineMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 15-Sep-13 11:49:46

Hi BIWI, I've been low-carbing for a couple of weeks now (although I have had a couple of cheats - we do love our dominos in this house, but only one night a week <grin>) and I may have had the odd glass of red <ahem>.

I don't own scales, although I know I have roughly 2 stone to lose and I certainly feel leaner. I'm drinking 5 pints of water a day and have noticed a reduction in my appetite. I work full time thought and the salad season has definitely come to an end - any other tips for low carb lunches that can be pre-prepared?

CatherineMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 15-Sep-13 11:50:24

though* not thought* obvs

Salad season never comes to a end for me! Alternative though is soups / probably best to make your own as all the shop ones hae sugar/potatoes etc.. in them.

Or a lunchbox full of picky things, olives, meats, cheeses, cucumber sticks can roll up some Philadelphia in ham with a bit of cucumber for example, or have pâté on cucumber or celery for example.

Seriously though if you want to lose the weight, you really do need to ditch the dominoes!!!!

halfthesize Sun 15-Sep-13 13:48:06

Catherine how about homemade soup in a flask. Also agree with MrsHP ditch the dominossmile

tenementfunster Sun 15-Sep-13 14:24:54

hi there
what's the situation with gravy granules?


giraffeseatpineapples Sun 15-Sep-13 14:48:28

cold frittata - mainly because I like saying frittata grin Had some with chorizo in today - yum.

I was really surprised that neither waitrose nor my local healthfood shop had coconut flour, tapioca flour etc. Think all those bits are more available in America?

janx Sun 15-Sep-13 16:19:28

Anyone recommend some not too expensive scales. Usually go to boots to weigh myself but not that convienant

whodunnit Sun 15-Sep-13 16:57:23


MAy I mention the unmentionable? Look away all fainthearted people. Pooing. I feel absolutley fine but have not had a poo apart form a small rabbit dropping for at least 3 days. Is this normal and what's the cure? I have been eating very well and am a bit worried that all this meat and eggs is piling up inside somewhere. I have eaten a fair amount of cucumber, celery n green salad, but today I have moved onto cabbage and celeriac soup try to increase the fibre. I have also tried a couple of spoons of phylltic husks but am loathe to take any more in case they just get caught up in the backlog.

The good news is that if I ever lose all the food that must be lodged in my gut somewhere, I reckon I'll drop a kilo instantly. Am I alone or is this normal, and how do you get over it?

janx I have these ones. They are great and I would highly recommend them if they are in your price range?

whodunnit keep up drinking the water and eating fat and you should be fine. I like to think it is partly because you are not eating too many things that your body doesn't need/can't digest and so there is less wastage to come out if that makes sense! As long as you are not uncomfortable I think you are fine...

giraffes I can't find them in my waitrose either, but have heard rumours they are in the bigger tescos and sainsburys? I have also heard that they are in different places depending ont he shop (eg with baking stuff, gluten free stuff, asian foods etc...) so you might have to ask!

whodunnit Sun 15-Sep-13 17:03:43

Thanks MrsHercule. Am doing ok with the water and taking on much more fat than my brain tells me I should be doing....should have followed my dad's advice and become a mathematician then I couddl have got a pencil and worked it out.... sorry ...... can't use a joke like that very often.... argh, I am turning into my dad!

Lifeisontheup Sun 15-Sep-13 18:50:22

I've been doing really well with the water (at least 4L a day) but I'm back at work tomorrow with limited access to loos.
Do you think it would be ok to drink most of my water when I get home with perhaps a litre before I go in or does this mess things up?

giraffeseatpineapples Sun 15-Sep-13 19:48:58

That's interesting Mrs Poirot, I will keep that in mind when I am at one of the larger supermarkets; the ones round here are medium sized.

Whodunnit - try taking a magnesium supplement if your not already.

Life it is fine, I end up doing that sometimes... but it does mean I am up and down all night!!!

janx Sun 15-Sep-13 22:04:12

Thanks for the scales link mrsH - they look great

whodunnit Mon 16-Sep-13 00:00:50

Magnesium supplement, it is then. Thanks, giraffe.

BIWI Mon 16-Sep-13 00:08:30

If you are going to the toilet without difficulty, then you are not constipated. Keep eating the fat and drinking the water. And stop worrying about how much fat you are eating! Honestly, you should be eating mainly fat, then protein and then carbs.

Catherine - please, please, please ditch the pizza! Once you have switched your body to burning fat rather than carbs you will be able to do this, but in these first few weeks it is really important to keep the carbs down as much as possible and as consistently as possible.

Re lunch - I agree with MrsHP - salad season is never over! A can of tuna, with mayonnaise and salad or egg mayonnaise with salad is a great lunch. Do you have a supermarket near you that has a hot food counter? Rotisserie chicken with salad is lovely. (Just avoid the flavoured chicken as they all have sugar in them). If you have a microwave at work, then try making extra at dinner and taking leftovers in with you for lunch the next day.

ImABadGirl Mon 16-Sep-13 10:59:57

Hello all,

I've been looking at low carbing but I'm a very fussy eater, can it work for me?

Things I don't eat:

red meat
any meat that is on a bone

I'm at a loss to what I would eat if I low carbed...

captainmummy Mon 16-Sep-13 11:21:07

Badgirl - what do you eat now? grin I'm guessing mainly carbs?
It will be very difficult to low-carb if you don't eat butter; we need the fat to fuel our bodies - and burn fat! If you eat chicken you could survive on just that, but you would need to fry it, pref in butter as it is too low-fat to low-carb with otherwise.

Do you eat mayo? Eggs? Lunches could be salad with lots of oily dressing/mayo and eggs or veg, breakfast more eggs (fried,scrambled with butter/mayo, boiled mashed with butter/mayo) . Dinner more chicken with veg roasted in oil

Can I ask why don't you eat butter/cheese/dairy? Is it the 'Fat is bad' thing, spouted by government spokesmen for the past 30-40 years? If so, we can reassure you. Fat doesn't make you fat - sugar(carbs) does! Look at the latest bootcamp thread for encouraging losses - after only 1 week!

ImABadGirl Mon 16-Sep-13 11:52:37

thank you for replying, I don't eat an awful lot tbh but what I do eat are totally the wrong things. I don't eat things because I don't like the taste of them, I don't eat mayo and I'll only eat eggs if they are in an omelette.

I really don't like the taste of butter and avoid it, I love vegetables but wouldn't like them if they were fried in butter.

I've done well on the fasting woe purely because I don't eat much anyway and thought low carbing would help me shift the last stone that I seem to enjoy hanging onto!

imabadgirl, what are your daily meals on an average non-fasting day? if you list them we might be able to advise how you could "low-carbify" them (within certain limits!)

as it doesn't look like you eat many naturally fatty foods it might be quite tricky, as fat makes you feel satiated and you would almost certainly feel miserable and hungry on a lean protein and veg only diet. i'm guessing no dairy rules out yoghurt and cream too...

do you like olive oil?

imabadgirl, this is the list of allowed foods - which of these would you be able to eat?

- Any fresh/unprocessed meat and fish. (Anything processed, like crab sticks or pre-prepared burgers are likely to have carbs - always check the back of the packet)

- Processed meats/fish - bacon, ham, smoked salmon, etc - in moderation (not just because they have carbs but also because they often contain artificial ingredients, which we are also trying to avoid)

- Eggs - no limit on these

- Fresh veg/salad from the allowed veg list (and focusing on those that are 3g carbs per 100g or less)

- Fresh lemon/limes - you can use a little juice in marinades/dressings - just don't go mad and use a bucket-load.

- Frozen veg can be brilliant and is often surprisingly good - whole leaf spinach is especially good; cauliflower and broccoli are good standbys.

- Tinned fish like tuna (if you're buying things like sardines/pilchards/mackerel in sauces, check the carb count first)

- Tinned tomatoes - for soups/sauces; although they are quite carby, a little can go a long way. Sainsbury's Basics chopped tomatoes in a carton are lower in carbs

- Olive oil for salad dressings (ideally you shouldn't cook with olive oil but should use something like coconut oil instead - but coconut oil can be very expensive, so this one is up to you)

- Sesame oil for stir fries and marinades

- Vinegar for salad dressings - not balsamic vinegar, which is very high in carbs, compared with white wine vinegar which is zero carbs

- Soy sauce - for marinades or adding to stir fries, but beware it does contain carbs - check the labels first

- Mayonnaise - again, check the labels as the carb counts vary tremendously (and always full fat)

- Butter - as much as you like for either cooking or putting on veg

- Cheese/cream - in moderation; dairy can stall some people so go easy on this until you know if it affects you or not

- Yoghurt tends to be better tolerated - always, always, always full fat though and always plain! (Vanilla extract in yoghurt is lovely - Waitrose make one which is sugar-free)

- Olives - these are very low in carbs and make a useful snack as well as an addition to salads/sauces

- Water. If you find still/tap water boring, then sparkling water is fine. You should be aiming to drink at least two litres of water a day.

ImABadGirl Mon 16-Sep-13 12:23:18

A typical non fast day would be no breakfast, fruit probably a banana, vegetable stir fry with wholewheat noodles, and chocolate as a pudding grin

Like I said I have no idea how I got fat in the first place!

ImABadGirl Mon 16-Sep-13 12:25:15

I also don't like yoghurt but do like olive oil but I don't like oil on salads.

captainmummy Mon 16-Sep-13 13:18:34

Don't like oil in salads - but do like it otherwise? So you do fry stuff? There is not much food there at all, badgirl
Vegetable stir-fry - you could use low-carb veg and fry them, but lose the noodles. You can get a low-carb noodle (made from yam I think ) but not sure you'd like them... they have no taste at all though. You could make noodles out of courgette or rice out of cauliflower.
Chocolate is out I'm afraid. So is the banana - and all fruit for bootcamp.

How much do you need to lose?

ImABadGirl Mon 16-Sep-13 13:29:28

I fry with the fry light stuff, don't like my food greasy or oily. I have a stone to lose but would like to lose 2 before Christmas.

I'll have a read of the recipe thread, I don't really want to be miserable as I'm more likely to give up, I can handle 500 cals every other day, it's because I know I can have whatever I like tomorrow!

captainmummy Mon 16-Sep-13 14:08:09

I'm amazed that you have 2 stone to lose Badgirl. Your non-fasting days can't be more than 500 cals. Unless it's a ton of chocolate - in which case you know the answer - ditch that!

ImABadGirl Mon 16-Sep-13 14:23:29

yep, chocolate and sweets are my downfall, I've given bread up as it bloats me.

I think the only way for me to lose is exercise, exercise and a bit more on top!

I'll give low carbing a week and see how I get on, I might get bored with omelettes though!

captainmummy Mon 16-Sep-13 16:23:46

Well if you want to low-carb, you will need to eat fat. No question. You cannot low-carb and low-cal, it just doesn't work. And you know yourself you need to ditch the chocs and sweets - you don't need to low-carb to do that, it's a basic. You don't need the processed sugar.

And doing it 'for a week' - what's that going to do? You either lose a load of water-weight, or you don't lose anything (cos you're not eating the right foods) and you'll go back to eating - well, not much, but mostly sugars.

The great thing about low-carbing is the amount of fat we eat - it fills you up, it is a natural food and it doesn't raise your blood-sugars. If you can't eat fat, i don't think it will work for you.

Have a read of the rules (on the spreadsheet) and see if you can do this. If you can't, then maybe the 5;2 would be better, as you don't seem to like food anyway. If you want to really give it a go, we will all help .

Exercise BTW will only work if you are doing insane amounts of it. It counts for only about 15% of the total weight loss.

halfthesize Mon 16-Sep-13 16:41:23

ImABadGirl you can eat lots of things bar omelettes trust me, check out the recipe thread.
The reason people gain weight is because they eat sugar and are not mindful of what is going in their mouths, I was definitely someone who did this before Low Carbing. I work out alot and whilst it tones me and keeps me motivated, I dont think I actually loose weight from it.
You need to stick with it for longer than a week, its not a diet but a way of eating(WOE) I think it could work for you but you need to read through the rules and see what you think??


captainmummy Mon 16-Sep-13 16:54:52

Oh and it's the Wheat in bread that bloats you; Fact.(there isn't much else in bread!) You still eat wholeWheat noodles. These will also bloat you. Anything made with flour will bloat you. It's one of the reasons I gave up carbs - i felt like a balloon most evenings.

Halfthesize is right - this is a Way of Eating, not a quick fix diet.

giraffeseatpineapples Mon 16-Sep-13 17:20:10

I'm a bad girl you could with and eat spoonfuls of coconut oil they sell it in jars in the healthfood shop. I think lots of people on the 5:2 facebook page also do this. Not quite sure of the science why they do think it is because it doesn't break the fast. You will prbably find those other foods more appealing when the option of a sneaky bar of chocolate isn't there grin

giraffeseatpineapples Mon 16-Sep-13 17:20:33

sorry I meant cook with

ImABadGirl Mon 16-Sep-13 22:07:37

thanks for your replies, I meant I would see what foods I could eat and whether I can stomach eating fat, not give it a week and give up...I need to sort my food issues out and find stuff to eat, not processed rubbish I'm used too.

I'll look on the recipe thread and see if I can adapt some to meet my tastes, I'll get some coconut oil and see what that's like.

can you have sunflower/vegetable oil or is this too processed?

goodasitgets Tue 17-Sep-13 03:15:59

I can't remember who asked about lunches but I'm enjoying salad box type things at the minute. Basically whatever is in the fridge tipped in a box grin
So egg mayo, prawns, some cold roast chicken, cucumber chunks, avocado, mayo for dipping stuff
It's great if you have a few little bits left over and no idea what to do with them

captainmummy Tue 17-Sep-13 08:28:32

BAdGirl - if you really want to give it a real go, then READ THE RULES (on the spreadsheet) . Don't start off eating high-fat low-carb and then have a banana, or bag of sweets. That's the very worst thing you can do.
Sunflower/veg oil is fine. Fat will fill you up and help ensure that you don't want to snack on sweets/chocolate. Your diet at the mo is all carbs, so it will be a total 180degree change for you (as it was for me too!) and you will need to find a way to incorporate more fat and protein - ie real food.

Follow us on the Bootcamp thread and see if you can do this - we will help.WEEK2 HERE

silverangel Tue 17-Sep-13 09:29:13

Biwi - I have a question - I get that this woe is low carb and you need to eat to fat, and its working for me so all good. But just wondering, Dukan is low carb, low fat and that works too - so would you see that as a 'diet' as opposed to a woe long term? Just pondering really...

BIWI Tue 17-Sep-13 09:34:17

I don't, personally, think that Dukan is actually that low carb. I think it's a low fat/low calorie diet pretending to be a low carb one! The oatbran that he advocates, for example, must add a fair few carbs. And I also don't like the way that he advocates low fat foods - e.g. low fat, flavoured yoghurts (which are pretty high in carbs I think) and diet drinks.

On the days when you're only eating protein, I suspect that those are pretty low calorie days. Yes that will also make them low carb, but I don't think that's actually how his diet works.

Ultimately, I do see Dukan as a diet rather than a way of eating, because it isn't modelling 'normal' eating. I'd far rather eat more consistently than knowing that one day a week I can only eat protein. And I'd far rather base my meals and drinks on natural, unprocessed stuff.

But it's like everything - it's what works for you. It doesn't really matter what I'm doing!

silverangel Tue 17-Sep-13 09:56:10

I agree - was just trying to work out the biology of it! I tried dukan and lasted two days - way too restrictive and the oatbran you have to eat every day in the first phase goes against low carb principles anyway.

Low carbing is for mesmile

BIWI Tue 17-Sep-13 10:48:30


I tried it too, and couldn't bear that bloody oatbran!

giraffeseatpineapples Tue 17-Sep-13 11:23:50

I read it and bought some oat bran - lets just say the oatbran is unopened in the cupboard.

Woolfey Tue 17-Sep-13 16:00:52

I need some quick afternoon snack ideas - I'm doing bootcamp light and have been having cashews as they are the only nuts I like but just read on here that they are quite carby.

Not eggs as I have them for breakfast and not cold meat as I usually have that for lunch. I'm trying to not do too much dairy as well so only have cheese at dinner time. I'm struggling to think of something that will fill the gap between lunch at 12 and dinner at 8pm. Any ideas oh wise ones?

halfthesize Tue 17-Sep-13 16:47:19

pork scratchings, home made!

BIWI Tue 17-Sep-13 17:04:44


Woolfey Tue 17-Sep-13 17:17:11

I'm afraid I don't like olives or pork scratchings, I was just wondering if I was missing anything else obvious.

Woolfey Tue 17-Sep-13 17:17:23

Thanks though smile

captainmummy Tue 17-Sep-13 17:21:02

You can still snack on cold meat even if you have it for lunch! Cold chicken, ham/smoked salmon rolled up, radishes with cold butter, cold meatballs...and have you tried macadamia nuts? much lower in carbs than cashews.

captainmummy Tue 17-Sep-13 17:23:23

Or what about Kale crisps? Fried courgette slices with chili/curry powder dusting? Soup? Celery and mayo/oil-and-herb dip? Cold sausages.

BIWI Tue 17-Sep-13 17:24:54

Is there no way that you could have your lunch later and your dinner earlier? So you don't need to snack?

Woolfey Tue 17-Sep-13 19:27:59

Thanks for those suggestions, v. helpful as I was getting stuck in a rut. Cold meatballs and sausages sound nice as do the kale crisps. Is there a recipe for them? I'm a fussy madam and don't like macadamia nuts either.

Timing is tricky for me as I have lunch with the DD's and dinner with DH who doesn't get back from work until late. It's a long time between the two which is why it's so important for me to have a planned snack. DD1 bless her gets upset if I don't have lunch with them and DH does the same if I don't have dinner with him!

captainmummy Tue 17-Sep-13 21:16:06

Kale crisps -strip the leaves from the central rib and chop. toss in oil and chuck in a medium hot oven - keep an eye on them, they burn quickly. when they are browning and crispy sprinkle over salt, chilli or garlic powder or just eat as is.
They are jsut like the seaweed you get in chinese restaurants - except they usually have brown sugar over.

Woolfey Tue 17-Sep-13 21:33:23

captain - thanks so much for that. I'll give it a go.

bettybigballs Wed 18-Sep-13 08:51:55

Does anyone know if beancurd sheets are love carb? Getting mixed info online but just seen a yummy recipe using them.

BIWI Wed 18-Sep-13 09:10:37

According to this site here it is 0g carbs! But I find that hard to believe. I'm guessing that it must vary by brand. Can you Google the brand's website and see if they publish the nutritional information on there?

bettybigballs Wed 18-Sep-13 11:27:33

Thanks for looking BIWI - the packaging's in in Chinese with no nutritional table. I can't believe they are zero either...

Will keep investigating. Thanks again.

Maryz Wed 18-Sep-13 13:45:40

Hello everyone <waves feebly>

I am a week behind due to three planned nights out last week, so there was no point in starting and failing straight away. I started on Monday and am summoning up the courage to post on the chat thread and the spreadsheet.

Meanwhile, can I just check a couple of things.

Can I really eat pate, mayonnaise (Helmanns is the lowest carb in my local supermarket) and pork scratchings? And add cream to soup?

So far I have had breakfast: 1 slice of bacon/mushrooms/tomato omelette or scrambled egg with small slice of smoked salmon. Lunch has been salad rolls - home-made coleslaw/tomato/cucumber/chopped chicken wrapped in lettuce leaves. Dinner: Roast chicken with salad/Stir-fried beef with various veg and soy sauce/small piece of fillet steak (a treat) with fried mushrooms/onions and frozen broccoli. Tomorrow I was going to make a coconut milk based Thai curry for the kids with various veg, and eat it as a soup for myself.

Does that sound about right? I can't get over the fact that I'm not hungry - though I have cheated with two cups of coffee a day each with a splash of milk. I'm getting headaches, but I think that's coffee withdrawal.

I am getting massive, really unbelievable cravings for sugar shock. I'm horrified at how my mouth starts watering at the smell of chocolate.

Maryz Wed 18-Sep-13 13:47:20

Oh, and my period started on Monday - the first I have had since the beginning of the summer! I thought I'd finally finished. Good timing hmm

BIWI Wed 18-Sep-13 15:16:14


Can I really eat pate, mayonnaise (Helmanns is the lowest carb in my local supermarket) and pork scratchings? And add cream to soup?

Yes, yes, yes and yes! grin Just check the carb count on the pate, and be careful with the cream - some people find that dairy impedes weight loss for them.

So far I have had breakfast: 1 slice of bacon/mushrooms/tomato omelette or scrambled egg with small slice of smoked salmon.

Perfect. Just watch out - bacon and smoked salmon are processed, so shouldn't be eaten every day/at every meal.

Lunch has been salad rolls - home-made coleslaw/tomato/cucumber/chopped chicken wrapped in lettuce leaves.

Perfect - just make sure that you're eating enough fat here. Add plenty of mayonnaise. Bear in mind that chicken is a lean meat as well, so this lunch could end up being relatively low fat as well as low carb.

Dinner: Roast chicken with salad/Stir-fried beef with various veg and soy sauce/small piece of fillet steak (a treat) with fried mushrooms/onions and frozen broccoli.

Lovely but, again, have you been using enough fat? Did you cover the chicken skin with fat - and did you eat it when it came out lovely and crispy? Did you use plenty of fat in your stir-fry? And did you add butter to your veg?

Tomorrow I was going to make a coconut milk based Thai curry for the kids with various veg, and eat it as a soup for myself.

Again, perfect - as long as you have checked the carb count on the coconut milk - and make sure you've used plenty of fat.

Does that sound about right? I can't get over the fact that I'm not hungry - though I have cheated with two cups of coffee a day each with a splash of milk. I'm getting headaches, but I think that's coffee withdrawal.

It sounds like you've made a great start! If you're not hungry, then it's a really good sign. Don't worry too much about giving up coffee at this stage - if you keep the number of cups/amount of milk down, you should be fine. (I've never given up drinking coffee). And coffee withdrawal is the worst experience - I never had carb withdrawal but had horrible headaches the time I gave up drinking coffee.

You're doing great! flowers

BIWI Wed 18-Sep-13 15:17:18

Oh, and one more thing - I notice you have qualified things, so 1 slice of bacon, or a small piece of steak - there is no need to restrict quantities of protein (finances to one side of course!).

Maryz Wed 18-Sep-13 17:11:12

Thanks a million for that. It sounds as though I am possibly not eating enough - which is a bit weird for me.

Yes, sadly finances is restricting the meat - but I think I'm going to just have to tell dh and the kids to sod off and spend extra on myself for a while. After all the sheer quantity of food they eat means I can't afford to keep them all in steak and organic chicken, and I will be saving a small fortune if I can stay off wine hmm

I am determined to go cold turkey for two weeks, then have a think about how long and how well I can keep it up. But my weight was getting scarily near the 200 lb mark which is massive for me considering I was 20 kilos lighter the day before ds2 was born.

BIWI Wed 18-Sep-13 17:16:38

Thing is, Maryz, it's the cheaper cuts of meat that are actually better for low carbing! So instead of fillet steak (which is, admittedly, a lovely cut of beef), go for a stew made with stewing steak. Have chicken thighs instead of chicken breast. Or breast of lamb rather than lamb chops.

But yes - you definitely deserve to put yourself first for a while.

Torrorosso Thu 19-Sep-13 08:47:42

Biwi will no doubt tell me off again for weighing daily, but despite losing 2lb and sticking to this woe to the letter, I appear to have put back on 1.5lb since Monday. How annoying!hmm

I don't have much to lose, so maybe I do need to consider calories - thoughts anyone?

I have used the ketostix which indicate I have stayed in ketosis - does that mean I should definitely be losing?

Today's menu...

A pile of spinach fried in butter with an egg and homemade mayo and decaf coffee with cream plus a decaf tea with a small amount of full fat milk.

Lunch will be chicken salad with olives and more home made mayo
(Egg yolk, olive oil and a splash of lemon juice)

Snacks: full fat yogurt and eithet an avocado or a home made turkey burger left over from dinner last night (going to gym straight from work, so will have those later to keep me going ), I will also have another decaf coffee with cream.

Late dinner: baked salmon and allowed veg.

I will try to drink more water today, although I have been trying to quaff as much as possible.

BIWI Thu 19-Sep-13 09:04:54

It could be anything though, Torro - 1.5lbs isn't much - it could also be something to do with where you are in your menstrual cycle.

It is true that as we get nearer our target that we have to look at our portion sizes and therefore the calories we're consuming.

But looking at your food, I'm wondering if you're eating enough fat? I see you're adding mayo, but baked salmon and chicken will be pretty lean.

And you say you will try to drink more water - does that mean you're not drinking enough?

I wouldn't worry, at this early stage, about things. Try and keep the fat and water up and just be patient!

Torrorosso Thu 19-Sep-13 10:03:14

Thanks Biwi. I think I'm adding plenty of fat in the way of butter, olive oil and coconut oil and cream in coffee - in fact I feel a bit sick this morning.

I've been drinking what seems to be a lot of water, but not measuring it. I'll make a conscious effort with it for the rest of bootcamp.

I am menopausal - erratic periods with long gaps in between - but I had one a fortnight ago, so if anything I'm mid cycle. Hard to know if it's hormonal though.

janx Thu 19-Sep-13 10:30:07

Is this not enough for breakfast?
1 poached egg and smoked salmon? I am hungry 2.5 hrs later

devilinside Thu 19-Sep-13 10:51:10

Are we still allowed Splenda? it's ten years since I did the Atkins Diet, so not sure if the old rules still apply

devil, bootcamp is different to atkins and we don't use splenda or other artificial sweeteners if they can be avoided, at least for the first two strict weeks.

this is because:

- we are trying to release the hold that sweet flavours have over us
- there is some evidence (it is debated) that sweeteners can impede weight loss and/or may be damaging to health
- we are trying to get away from artificial ingredients/additives as much as possible

janx your breakfast does look very small, and if you are hungry after 2.5 hours i would say definitely not enough. there's also not much fat there. could you have two eggs and scramble them in butter to have with the smoked salmon?

captainmummy Thu 19-Sep-13 11:19:40

Possibly not, Janx. If you are hungry - eat!

Devil - probabaly not on bootcamp. We are trying to break our addiction to sweet things, so No.

janx - I'd be hungry too - I tend to eat rather large breakfasts (with too much bacon, BIWI would say) - usually 4 rashers plus 2 fried duck eggs - and then this morning with the addition of a couple of slices of pan fried lamb's liver (which is higher in carbs than most meat, but I don't have it very often). Sometimes I have a few fried mushrooms too, or 3 eggs, scrambled with cream and butter, with smoked salmon. I'm about to experiment with replacing the bacon with thin-cut rump steak - trying to get away from processed meats. If I have an omelette, that's usually 3 eggs, too - usually with cheese. My other fairly regular breakfast is a whopping great slice of crustless quiche. Try adding another egg (or two), and perhaps some melted butter, to your breakfast, and see how it goes?

I find that if I have a big enough breakfast, with significant fat content, I don't usually get hungry again until the evening.

silverangel Thu 19-Sep-13 11:55:16

So, this weekend I am going to cheat / have a day off, whatever you want to call it adn no point in pretending that I won't - It’s my sister’s wedding and I will drink an awful lot and eat all the lovely wedding food and cake. This woe has helped my bridesmaid dress look great and I fully plan to continue with it but – on the day, what do I do. Avoid carbs until the main meal or just go with the flow for the day and eat the sandwiches for lunch / smoked salmon bagels for breakfast and just get back on it the next day.

Is there any point avoiding the carbs for part of the day? Bearing in mind there will be bucks fizz involved at breakfast, and I know I’m not going to abstain!

BIWI Thu 19-Sep-13 11:59:42

I think that's what is technically known as an "oh fuck it!" day, silverangel!

Enjoy the day. Eat what you want. Just get back on the wagon the next day and have a couple of super strict days. Don't let the carb cravings get you though!

janx Thu 19-Sep-13 12:35:23

Thanks for replies - will eat more fat for brekkie. As I was hungry and out and popped into m&s - my goodness I can recommend their snacks! tandori prawns and calamarigrin

silverangel Thu 19-Sep-13 12:42:28

smile smile Biwi - oh fuck it day it is then!

Maryz Thu 19-Sep-13 18:31:44

I love the idea of an "oh fuck it day" grin

I've survived another day. If I can manage til Saturday I might actually join the spreadsheet.

Tonight I have made a pot of chicken curry for the family (and a few portions to freeze). I've used two cans of coconut milk, hence my question: How can one ingredient vary so much in carb count?

Blue Dragon coconut milk - Protein 1.4g, Carb 3.4g (2.1g sugar), Fat 15g, Fibre 0.4g
Regal Thai coconut milk - Protein 2.4g, Carb 0.8g (0g sugar), Fat 21.3g, Fibre 0.1g

Is the Regal one just diluted with water or something? Because that is a massive carb difference confused Both have E numbers - stabilisers, anti-oxidents etc that sound similar but of course they don't give amounts hmm

I think the curry paste (14.7 g per 100g carbs) I have used is possibly cheating a bit, but I've used only about 30g for 6 servings, so I suppose I can justify it - or can I?

I have some pork belly roasting skin side up in the oven atm, in an attempt to make home made pork scratchings - has anyone got a proper recipe?

Thanks again to BIWI and the question answerers flowers

BIWI Thu 19-Sep-13 18:59:18

That sounds like a perfect way to make scratchings, Maryz.

If it doesn't work, though, you can do it in the microwave. Take the skin off the pork when it's cooked, and put it on a plate and cover with kitchen towel (this is important if you don't want to spend hours cleaning your microwave!)

Cook on high for 30 seconds, and keep doing this until it's puffed up to your liking. It will be soft when you take it out of the microwave but will crisp up as it cools.

[expert in pork fat emoticon]

BIWI Thu 19-Sep-13 18:59:49

Oh, and <stern look> "oh fuck it" days are for high days and holidays only.

giraffeseatpineapples Thu 19-Sep-13 20:19:26

silverangel be carsful with the alcohol I went to a wedding a couple of years ago when low carbing - I cant remember most of the party and what I have been told is pretty blush

BIWI Thu 19-Sep-13 20:26:07

isn't, I presume? grin

giraffeseatpineapples Thu 19-Sep-13 22:37:59

oops yes 'isn't pretty' thanks Biwi! Blimey I sound drunk now and I've only had a coffee.

I can vouch for that. It was my 40th last year and we went to v festival.

Or so I believe.

It also wasn't pretty.

captainmummy Fri 20-Sep-13 08:14:46

Am sure alcohol affects us more on low-carbing. Hangovers are def worse - and may lead to carb-eating to 'soak it up' - so be careful
<sounding like my mother>

giraffeseatpineapples Fri 20-Sep-13 10:09:56

Please learn from our mistakes then you can enjoy the post wedding breakfast with everyone else without having to hang your head in shame!

janx Fri 20-Sep-13 12:12:19

Do any of you have problems convincing your other half to buy full fat? Dp is forever coming home with half fat yoghurt etc. Also my dd keeps asking why I am not eating pastasmile

BIWI Fri 20-Sep-13 12:14:59

You just have to keep on and on and on and on and on and on ... grin

Re DD - just tell her you've gone off it/don't like it (obviously depends on how old DD is - you could always tell her why, if she's old enough to understand)

janx Fri 20-Sep-13 12:43:51

The thing is my dp is tall and lanky and just doesn't put on weightshock
Dd is 9 and super slim too. I have to be really careful with what I say as she is quite body conscious and our last childminder used to talk about diets and all sorts of nonsense.
I am going to tell her pasta gives me a stomach ache.

captainmummy Fri 20-Sep-13 13:02:33

i just tell my boys i don't eat wheat any more as it bloats me.

I also tell my children that it gives me tummy ache. They just accept now that I don't eat it

MrsSnuffleupagus Fri 20-Sep-13 15:19:01

Silverangel I will also be having an 'oh fuck it' day tomorrow grin Its my cousins wedding, we don't all get together as a family very often, there will be lots of can see where I'm going with this grin My only saving grace is that I think they're having a hog roast so I can just eat meat and salad, this may hopefully slightly counter the effects of the alcohol...<hopeful>
I'll get straight back on lc on Sunday and have a super strict week next week I promise grin

giraffeseatpineapples Fri 20-Sep-13 17:08:01

Help! I have killed another thread - tips on how to not gain weight after low carb. My response didnt even give any tips - Biwi or someone experienced - please administer first aid blush

captainmummy Fri 20-Sep-13 19:46:21

Dunno giraffe - I intend to low-carb forever! It's more beneficial to your health, weight, tastebuds...
I might add in a bit of fruit but will never go back to wheat, or rice,

BIWI Fri 20-Sep-13 20:02:03

giraffes - sorry!

This is a tricky one. Firstly, you have to accept that eating too many carbs was what contributed to your weight in the first place. So - it stands to reason that if, when you reach your target, you start eating like you did before, the weight will go back on.

This means that you have to accept the fact that carbs will/should never be as prominent in your diet in the future as they are now.

However, on Bootcamp we are very strict about reducing our carbs, and we eat a very low amount. When you reach your target, you need to gradually increase your carbs until you get to a point where you start to gain weight again. This will tell you what you can/can't tolerate.

Unfortunately there is no easy way to do this, as everyone is different in terms of the amount of carbs they can tolerate - you just have to experiment.

I would recommend that you start very gradually by adding carbier veg to your meals and see what happens - possibly the odd slice of bread/toast.

I think giraffes was hoping others would post on the thread she mentioned... I may be wrong... I posted earlier giraffes for you - now I'm the thread killer there ;)

Just out of curiosity, if Bombay Sapphire Gin has no carbs (which it doesn't) why can't you have it on boot camp?

BIWI Fri 20-Sep-13 20:55:09

For two reasons:

- unless you're drinking it neat, you will be having it with slimline tonic, which contains artificial sweeteners, which we are trying to avoid

- like all alcohol, your body will burn this as a source of fuel before burning anything else, which means that whilst you're drinking alcohol, you will not be burning any fat

BIWI Fri 20-Sep-13 20:55:21

But good try!

giraffeseatpineapples Fri 20-Sep-13 21:16:48

Thank you MrsHerculePoirot grin ! So I guess I should reclaim my title by cutting and pasting Biwi's advice sigh ...

pixiegumboot Fri 20-Sep-13 21:22:09

pizza base question.? carby is this?
3 eggs
1/2 cup of coconut flour.
1 cup of organic full fat coconut milk
2 tsp of garlic powder
1/2 baking soda
1 crushed garlic clove

Torrorosso Sat 21-Sep-13 07:40:16

If I have a large glass of wine when bootcamp is over, can I compensate with extra exercise the next day?

In other words, if the body is looking for carbs to burn first, and I do a bit more to burn off those carbs, would that make it quicker for my body to go back to burning fat?

captainmummy Sat 21-Sep-13 09:24:03

Torro - in theory, yes. But exercise is actully only a small part of the weight-loss in practice, because you need to do a huge amount of exercise to compensate. A calorie is not always a calorie! But it helps. Drink lotrs of water too.

Pixie the carbier things there will obviously be the coconut flour and the coconut milk. I don't know what garlic powder has in it. You will need to look at the carb counts on the products you have and work it out based on the quantities and portion sizes

Torrorosso Sat 21-Sep-13 12:43:40

Thanks captain. The thought of a nice glass of Merlot with a steak next weekend is keeping me going!

I won't cave in this weekend - too close to completing bootcamp.

Maryz Sat 21-Sep-13 12:50:24

Anyone know if mustard is ok?

And the lowest-carb stock cubes. I can't seem to find an answer on the various threads.

Maryz I think knorr (sp) ones are fairly low, depending on what I am cooking, I eater them down a bit more where I can.

I think mustard should be ok as you tend to on,y use small amounts, DH has it a lot, but check the packet to be sure!

Maryz Sat 21-Sep-13 13:10:16

Thanks MrsHP. I wanted to add a dollop of grainy mustard to my fried mushrooms.

I am checking carbs, but I haven't yet really got the hang of what is "low-carb". It's early days.

BIWI Sat 21-Sep-13 13:38:13

What brand, Maryz?

A teaspoon of the tesco one (which is higher carb than some other brands) is 0.5g so if it is a small amount it would be fine. I wouldn't go smothering it willy nilly all over everything, but a teaspoon on mushrooms I reckon would be fine!

Maryz Sat 21-Sep-13 14:16:14

Well, actually <whispers> it's the Lakeshore wholdgrain mustard with Guinness, so it may not be ok (11.2 carb per 100g)

<reminds self to google before asking stupid questions>

Well a teaspoon is about 5g so you are looking at about 0.5/0.6 g per teaspoon if that helps!

Maryz Sat 21-Sep-13 14:20:23

Yes, I suppose.

But I have vowed to do the two weeks with nothing more than 3% carbs, and I think I've done it so far apart from a spoonful of red curry paste divided between six.

So I will just add more butter.

SteppingOnLego Sun 22-Sep-13 11:28:37

Getting to end of 2nd week on bootcamp and think I'm doing fine. Not finding it too hard to stick to and feeling great. Problem comes next weekend. I'm going to be doing a sort of challenge day for charity involving running, mountain biking, kayaking etc for the whole day. The info we get says to bring snacks for energy e.g. cereal bars, chocolate etc. What can I bring? Don't want to go right off the rails but equally not keen to keel over in the middle of it. Think they provide some lunch but I would expect that will be carb heavy.

toomuchicecream Sun 22-Sep-13 11:43:19

That's an interesting challenge! I suspect your friend may be packs of cooked meat - ham chicken, pepperami etc. Should give you plenty of energy but will take longer to release it so you'll need to eat before you need it, if you k ow what I mean.

BIWI Sun 22-Sep-13 11:45:40

Nuts would be good. You can also buy individual portions of cheese from M&S which would work well. Hard boiled eggs? (All depends on how much you can carry of course!)

If all else fails, some Atkins Daybreak Bars would be a good compromise. Yes, they are processed, but they are low in carbs too. Boots and Sainsbury's sell them (not sure about Tesco because I don't shop there very often)

SteppingOnLego Sun 22-Sep-13 12:21:15

Thanks for the advice. Think I'll bring a combination of the above - love hardboiled eggs, cheese and nuts so that should do. Which nuts are best? Might also get the atkins bar things. I suppose even if they aren't great its better than stuffing in a bar of dairy milk! I shall let you know how it goes.

There is an evening party after but happily it's a hog roast so should be ok (as long as I avoid the beer).

BIWI Sun 22-Sep-13 13:57:39

Macadamias are the best, and almonds.

janx Sun 22-Sep-13 16:20:14

I have had a few hiccups so not really expecting much weight loss. I basically want to loose 13lbs by Xmas -am thinking Ilb a week might be more achievable smile

giraffeseatpineapples Sun 22-Sep-13 18:45:19

steppingonlego Maximuscle Promax Meal Bar were on offer in my tesco express for about £1.40. Not sure whats in them but they claim to be high protein and high fibre.

stinkerfromhove Tue 01-Oct-13 23:33:51

Help Willie. I'm trying to enter my weight for 30th September. When I highlight my cell and enter the weight it goes into SteppingonLego's row.

captainmummy Wed 02-Oct-13 08:16:31

Willie's away at the mo, stinker. I'm sure she'll get on it when she's back - it may be that you've been 'archived'. That happens if you don't enter for a week or so - just because it mucks up the averages.

sorry stinker - i'm away with work and what with all the wining and dining meetings i'm not really keeping up!

it looks to me like you've successfully entered for yourself (7lb loss in two weeks? bloody well done), so it may well be just the boxes not rendering properly in whatever device you're using to access (sorry, the spreadsheet is a bit clunky on some devices and platforms)

colette Sat 05-Oct-13 23:17:02

WWd - if you're back could you see unarchive me please ?

ThriftyMike Sun 06-Oct-13 01:23:03

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

you're back on there colette smile

colette Mon 07-Oct-13 08:53:44


frogslegs35 Mon 07-Oct-13 18:56:48

Hi everyone,
I'm new to low carbing and started today - I've read up and believe/hope think that I have a good idea but does today's diet sound ok - My OH actually thinks that I'm crazy with the fats.

Breakfast - 2 coffee's with 1tbs 30% fat cream and 1 stevia in each.
Whey Protein shake made with 100ml semi skimmed milk and 200ml water
(it was vile so tomorrow I'm cutting out the milk and might make it with kefir to thicken it)

I exercised around 20 mins after for 30 mins

Lunch - Around 50g of tuna (brine drained) 4 thick slices of cucumber and half a tomato all chopped and mixed with 1 tsp of mayo - served on 4 leaves of boston lettuce.

Snack- My body decided it would like some bread but I ignored it and had 1 slice of chimney smoked ham with 1 thin slice of gouda cheese and around 5 crushed pistaccio nuts - all rolled up like a little sandwich.

Dinner - chicken and mushroom omelette made with 1 cup of mushrooms, 2 eggs, half a chicken breast, cooked in 2 tbs of olive oil.
Plus some more lettuce, toms and cucumber. Plus a small glass of kefir.

I'm craving something sweet so may have half an apple or peach soon but possibly not.

I've drank roughly 1.5 L of water and 1 L of peppermint and green tea.

I've entered everything into MFP and it says I'm over on fat by 7grams, over on protein by 29 grams but my carb intake today is 30 - is that too high?

Oh and my calorie intake is 1165.

captainmummy Mon 07-Oct-13 20:17:54

Hi fronglegs - have you read the rules? The new bootcamp thread is HERE and the rules (There are not many!)are on the spreadsheet.
Your day looks ok, except the tomatoes are too carby for bootcamp, though allowed on bootcamp lite. Not sure about whey powder (We try to keep to 'real' food) but I kow someof us use it - though milk is generally too carby.
Don't eat a piece of fruit, there is no fruit allowed on bootcamp - too carby and you are trying to break your addiction to sweet things (and it is an addiction, make no mistake!)

Come over and join us!

frogslegs35 Tue 08-Oct-13 06:30:14

Thank you Captain, I'll have a read through all the info here.
Oops with the toms blush
I'm hoping the protein shake will be temporary until I adjust my eating habits, I'm usually a no brekkie person and need something to get me through my morning workout - it is a low carb kind but seeing as it was rather bleurghhh yesterday I'm going to try and force some real breakfast down today.
I didn't eat any fruit smile I was still full from dinner but just craved something sweet - just told myself NO! you don't need it, you're NOT hungry.

captainmummy Tue 08-Oct-13 08:49:48

Frogslegs - it is the hardest bit for some people; breaking the addiction to sweet things takes a lot. Def read all you can aboutit (Escape the diet trap by John Briffa, A book I can't remember by Gary Taubes, there is more reading sugegsted on the spreadsheet.)

Re breakfast - also one of the bits that most people find hard; we are so used to eating a 'special' meal at breakfast (cereal, toast, croissants etc) that it is hard to think of things you can eat on this WOE. I actually don't eat breakfast any more (dont need to eat until about 12 - from having to have something carby every 2 hours!) - but eggs, scrambled, takes 2 mins in microwave. Cold sausages (not every day), or leftovers from the day-before dinner... All quick. Lidl do a fab full-fat yoghurt (1litre for £1.50!) that you can have with vanilla/cinnamon or full-fat cream added.

BTW - what's Kefir?

well done on resisting the temptations frogslegs, it's really not easy at all

i would say though that your meals look rather low in fat. and you probably realise that stevia and protein shakes are Frowned Upon grin

captainmummy is right about the milk i'm afraid - if you must have the shake better to use double cream if you don't have a problem with dairy, and the fruit is verboten (well done for resisting)

why only a tsp of mayo at lunch? better to have tuna in olive oil (drained) with a good big dollop of full fat mayo - the fat makes you feel satiated and is good for you

supper looks fine, though could be rather low in fat, rather depends on how much of the olive oil you ended up consuming (mushrooms are good soaker-uppers of course). personally i would have cooked in plenty of butter instead

i'm not sure how carby kefir is - is it like yoghurt? is it full fat?

don't worry about counting calories and carbs and weighing stuff - if you make a few adjustments and follow bootcamp rules you won't be eating too many grams of carbohydrates. you also have to be a little careful with MFP's figures because in the US their nutrition labels are different to ours and they have to subtract the grams of fibre from the overall grams of carbs. also they some of the user-inputted values can be a bit dodgy, i think because many users only care about calories and leave the other bits blank

a good start though - it's so hard to get your head around this WOE at first

frogslegs35 Tue 08-Oct-13 14:43:01

Thanks guys thanks
It is a little hard, I'm currently sitting here looking at menu's so I can plan a bit better.

Is a fermented milk drink, close to yogurt - thicker than milk and thinner than yogurt. There's a few live cultures in there that eat up (some of/all ?I'm not sure) the sugar from the milk it's made with.
There's so many good quality varieties available here (in Eastern Europe) the one I use is full fat, natural not sweetened and per 100g has 3.4g of protein and 3g of carbs.

Here lies my problem (and why I drink kefir it somehow seems to help) I have to be careful when consuming high fat so at the moment I need to 'test the water'
I sometimes react to high fat badly - Gall bladder removal - surgeon damaged my bile duct and it flares up every now and again if I overload.
Don't get me wrong I previously ate fats (the wrong kind) in large doses and the same item of food would sometimes hurt me but most often not, so there's not a specific trigger. I just take the risk as it's not life threatening, just painful.

I'm realising that MFP is a bit out smile but it's really just for me to get an idea what my intake is giving me.
I was a little worried, even though I know not to calorie count, that I was way under yesterday.

captainmummy Tue 08-Oct-13 17:27:12

Ah - problem with this WOE is that it is high-fat (no such thing as the wrong kind) - i don't know about gall bladder removal but will ask about.

Kefir sounds perfect!

And don't worry about MFP - it is an American site so in your totals you will have to add a column for Fiber and then subtract that from your carb column. And it also triggers when you go over the usual 'calorie counted', low-fat totals set into it. I used to have great fun with the big red warnings over FAT!!!! It's useful for logging your food if you want, but dont take much notice of the totals.

frogslegs if you scroll to the very bottom of this post you'll see it mentions low carbing and gall bladder removal:

"Another common question is if you can eat LCHF if your gallbladder is already removed. The answer is that this seems to work fine.

Some people without a gallbladder might have to increase their intake of fat gradually to allow their body time to adapt. Otherwise the body might not have time to digest the fat which could result in loose fatty stools initially. However this rarely seems to be a problem."

my understanding is that as you can't store bile and your liver will only produce as much bile as it's accustomed to on your regular diet, if you've been eating low fat then it can be uncomfortable if you go straight into high fat as your liver can't produce the bile quickly enough. So it may be better to work up to high fat to allow your liver to catch up with the WOE

however, none of us here is a doctor and you know your body best!

interesting to hear about kefir. a woman on another forum i'm on makes her own, but i hadn't ever really paid attention to what it was! it sounds like it has similar carb content to yoghurt. is it sour in taste?

and there's nothing wrong with giving yourself an idea of how many carbs there are in your regular serving of veg etc - i do it myself from time to time if i think i'm letting in the carb creep

captainmummy Tue 08-Oct-13 21:20:52

Beat me to it WIllie! grin Frogslegs - only you know if you can do this, if a LCHT (LowCarbHighFat) WOE is for you. My understanding is that the gall bladder gets 'complacent' on a high-fibre lowfat regime, whereas on a highfat diet it has to work out! (which keeps it in top condition).

frogslegs35 Wed 09-Oct-13 09:54:20

Yes Willie Kefir is sour - similar to natural yogurt. I mostly drink it but also make something called Mizeria with it as a side salad to meat, lots sliced cucumber, salt,pepper, dill and a little lemon juice.

My GB removal op and bile duct repair was 13 years ago - so my body is used to dealing with fats and managing without a GB but sometimes, for reasons only known inside my body, it hurts. Dr's are baffled why and can only say it's possibly because my bile duct is scarred, not functioning 100% and sometimes goes into overdrive.
Like I said before I don't let it control my life and will continue to up my fat intake so long as the flare ups don't become more regular.

AnyFuckerWillDo Fri 15-Nov-13 03:00:45

Marking place

AnyFuckerWillDo Sat 16-Nov-13 16:25:22

Can I have 1 "fuck it all" day a week or does it not work like that? It's Saturday, it's xfactor it's my one night with wine and chocolate, but it's not just that it's the upcoming Xmas do's, got one most weeks now, I started Monday - was in ketosis by weds and lost 4pds. If I have a wine tonight with some chocolate will it take me another 2 days to reach ketosis?

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