The Low Carb Bootcamp Continues!

(997 Posts)
BIWI Fri 02-Aug-13 14:33:47

The other thread was almost full, so here's a bright, shiny new one.

And here's the Spreadsheet of Fabulousness

And just in case you haven't discovered it yet, here is the recipe thread. Some truly lovely recipes on here that are worth a try.

Marking place!

Marking place

Eglute Fri 02-Aug-13 15:04:08

Hey we need to finish old one first smile

timidviper Fri 02-Aug-13 15:06:47

...and another place marker!

daisychicken Fri 02-Aug-13 15:07:36

Place marking also!

StuntNun Fri 02-Aug-13 15:30:51

Hello new thread. I just ate a Mathesons smoked sausage. Low carb (yay) but processed (boo) but still better than the cream cake I wanted to eat! I keep telling myself they're for the guests but then when I open the fridge they sing their carby siren song to me.

CJCregg Fri 02-Aug-13 15:41:03

Hello smile

I am just not hungry today. I had some Greek yoghurt for breakfast, and some ham and cheese for lunch, with a bit of salad. I've had two coffees with cream. Maybe it is the heat?

Weight is still roughly the same. Not going up, at least - but I seem to drop a pound or two then put it back on again confused

NigellasGuest Fri 02-Aug-13 16:21:42

trucksanddinosaurs thank you for your recommendation for pork belly strips - I was going to put them in the oven but perhaps grilling is better for getting them crispy?

I have already marinaded them in a mixture of coconut oil, butter,rapeseed oil, crushed garlic, chilli flakes, salt and pepper - and some herbs & spices mixture I found in the cupboard. I hope that sounds nice, it's all a bit of a guess!

loopyloou Fri 02-Aug-13 16:31:22

Thanks for the new thread BIWI.

Need to pick up something for tea on the way home, not sure what.

daisychicken Fri 02-Aug-13 16:47:55

I'm still keeping to plan but weight went up after my drop which makes me wonder if my scales are at fault.. I haven't weighed myself for about two weeks now but my clothes don't feel any different.. confused

Today I've had:
B: small pot of Greek yog (lidls) and a piece of cheese (half matchbox size)
S: 4 macadamia nuts
L: leftover cheeseburger 'pie' with tomato, radish, mushroom & 2 slices pepper plus a ice cube size portion of jelly mousse
D: will be tomato soup

Yesterday was:
B: small pot of Greek yog (lidls) and a piece of cheese (half matchbox size)
L: bacon and egg quiche with onion and pepper
D: cheeseburger 'pie' with a big portion of kale and a tiny amount of carrots

hurricanewyn Fri 02-Aug-13 16:54:15

Hello all

Still haven't weighed, but two dresses that were quite tight across my stomach are definitely looking better on, so I know I'm going the right way. I know this is early, but I'm going out for drinks with friends next week - what's low carb alcohol-wise? I don't drink much, I normally have soda water & lime cordial when I'm out, but that won't wash next week. Any ideas? I don't want to derail myself for the sake of one night out.

Today I had a lovely big cooked breakfast - sausages, fried tomato, mushrooms & eggs. I woke up starving and this was just th thing. Kept me filled up too, so I didn't have any lunch.

Dinner will be emmental lasagne, but I'm using Jarlsberg instead (on special offer in Sainsburys). I can smell it now, and it smells great smile

BIWI Fri 02-Aug-13 16:57:56

I had a lovely lunch today (even if I say so myself!). I went to the Korean supermarket and bought myself some shirataki noodles , and made a lovely chicken stir-fry. (Quantities are best guesses!)

Finely chop some fresh ginger and a large clove of garlic, and fry gently in a generous sloosh of oil in a wok. Season with salt (only a small amount) and black pepper.

Slice 1/2 chicken breast into strips and add to the wok, along with 1-2 sliced spring onions (according to size) and 1/2 a green chilli, sliced thinly.

Once the chicken is almost cooked through, add a handful of stir-fry veg (I bought a bag of Tesco stir-fry vegetables and beansprouts - 350g, and 5g carbs per 100g - I would guess that a handful was less than 50g) and continue to fry until softened.

Add a couple of ladles of chicken stock (I had just made some fresh stock), the juice of half a large lime and a dash of good quality soy sauce.

Rinse the noodles well, then add to the wok and stir for a minute or two so that they get a chance to absorb some of the flavours. Add a handful of chopped fresh coriander, and then serve.

BIWI Fri 02-Aug-13 17:00:18

hurricanewyn - best alcoholic drink would be something like vodka with soda/sparkling water, lots of ice and a slice of fresh lime/lemon. Or, golden rum with water/ice/lime. Gin and tonic would be OK as long as you drink Slimline tonic - but just remember that that will have artificial sweeteners in it.

Wine (dry white/red/Champagne) is OK, but it has carbs in it (unlike the vodka/rum/gin), so go easy.

hurricanewyn Fri 02-Aug-13 18:05:28

Thanks BIWI grin

QueenQueenie Fri 02-Aug-13 18:31:22

Posted this on the old thread, then realised you'd all decamped (geddit!) over here...

Weighed myself today. No change at all from last week which feels a bit depressing when I haven't fallen of the wagon and have done a fair bit of exercise... I'm about 5 weeks in, lost 15lbs in all (which I'm very pleased about) but I've a lot more to lose yet... is this all to be expected? Thanks.

StuntNun Fri 02-Aug-13 20:15:43

Emmental lasagne Hurricane? Tell me more.

B: Greek yoghurt
L: lamb burger and dressed green salad
S: half a Mathesons smoked sausage
D: turbot with cauliflower polenta and cockles
Still hungry after the restaurant so DH and I are planning a sneaky trip to the Chinese takeaway once our guests have gone home

CJCregg Fri 02-Aug-13 20:19:44

I have a bit of a sweet craving, and have a friend coming for dinner tomorrow. Is there anything I can make that won't do too much damage? I was wondering about maybe making something with cream/cream cheese and strawberries. I really, really fancy a pudding for a change blush

loopyloou Fri 02-Aug-13 20:51:17

We had steak burgers with Stilton and mayo and salad for dinner.

For breakfast I had mushroom omelette with a little cheese and for lunch tuna mayo with salad, for a snack a Babybel.

hurricanewyn Fri 02-Aug-13 21:19:29

StuntNun - It's lasagne, but with slices of emmental (or Jarlsberg) instead of sheets of lasagne - it's delicious, really lovely. It doesn't hold together as well as ordinary lasagne, but it's sooo good smile

hurricanewyn Fri 02-Aug-13 21:22:33

CJ - this if you can the sugar for sweetener or this are both low carb options that are good.

hurricanewyn Fri 02-Aug-13 21:23:00

Bum! this

CJCregg Fri 02-Aug-13 21:31:28

OMG, Hurricane - those raspberry cheesecake bars look unbelievable.

grin grin


Eglute Fri 02-Aug-13 21:33:06

B herring (it was in tangy marinade but 0 carbs)
L lettuce cucumber half of beefy tomatoe and a small amount of feta with mayo and olive oil
D mushroom omelette with 6 cherry tomatoes one babybel and a bit of mayo

Apart of maybe having too many tomatoes I did well I think smile

CJCregg Fri 02-Aug-13 21:37:01

The Nigella one looks awesome too <faints at thought of chocolate>

I also have some mascarpone in the fridge that needs using - would that go into something really really evil puddingy?

Just popping in to say I am down 4 lbs this week (horrific week last week but good this one!), and off on holiday for two weeks! Have a lovely low carb two weeks everyone....

PlumSykes Fri 02-Aug-13 21:43:30

Could I join you, please?

QueenQueenie Fri 02-Aug-13 21:45:46

Oh yes! Hi Plum...

PlumSykes Fri 02-Aug-13 21:50:22

Hello! Thank you.

Mouseface Fri 02-Aug-13 22:31:38

Marking my place smile x

CheeseAndFriedMushrooms Fri 02-Aug-13 23:00:19

Marking place, hi plum! grin

Eglute Sat 03-Aug-13 00:05:25

mrs enjoy!!

Hey plum smile

NewStartNewStory Sat 03-Aug-13 00:36:56

I have almost thrown my toddler style temper tantrum. It is rather needed. but resorting to sulking in the corner. Lets hope saturday is to be less over reacting. On a plus note I turned down comfort ice cream offer from good friend. couldn't face eating ice cream. vile stuff.

StuntNun Sat 03-Aug-13 07:28:01

Hurricane I'm going to try that emmental lasagne, I hope Lidl sell cheap emmental. grin I assume you don't need to add any other cheese or a cheese sauce? Just layer ragu or bolognese with emmental?

Surprisingly I haven't gained since yesterday even though I ate a cake and was starving after dinner. The cream meringue was tiny so the carb count was only 14.3g so it probably didn't have that huge an impact on my day after all. Where I think I went wrong was the meal I ordered in the pub was fish, veggies and cauliflower polenta so I didn't have enough fat which must be why I was still starving straight after dinner. DH had red snapper so he was the same. I need more things in the house for snacking on in situations like that, if only we had had some nice cheese last night. We ended up sharing salt and chilli ribs and smoked shredded chicken from the Chinese takeaway but we were still hungry and had some prosciutto and olives as well after that! I must try to be really strict today and tomorrow so that there's a difference on the scales come Monday.

BIWI Sat 03-Aug-13 07:55:13

CJCregg - there's a recipe for chocolate pots on the recipe thread that's very good.

BIWI Sat 03-Aug-13 08:02:27

Here you go:

Easy Pots de Creme (serves 6)

175ml/6 fl oz milk
175g/6 oz plain chocolate, broken into pieces
2 eggs
2 tablespoons strong coffee
1 tablespoon liqueur of your choice (recipe calls for orange, I used raspberry)

In a small saucepan heat the milk until small beads form around the edge, but do not allow to boil

In a food processor, blitz the chocolate with the eggs, coffee and liqueur

Add the hot milk and blend again until smooth

Pour into ramekins/glasses and chill. (I served each one with a couple of fresh raspberries on the top)

In terms of texture, this is a bit like Angel Delight - I think it would probably freeze quite nicely and could be a lovely chocolate ice-cream.

Without the alcohol, this works out at 8.05g carbs per person, based on using Green & Black's 85% cocoa dark chocolate. But as the alcohol is only 1 tablespoon, I doubt it would add a huge amount.

Someone - MrsHerculePoirot? - suggested or has made this with cream, to get the carbs down even further - which could be worth trying?

BIWI Sat 03-Aug-13 08:07:53

Welcome, Plum flowers

Queen - not unusual for this to happen at all - it can happen from weeks 3-5. I don't really know why, but so many people report it that there's obviously a reason for it! It could just be to do with your body getting used to switching over from carb-burning to fat-burning.

Don't despair, and don't change anything - you'll find that the weight starts to shift again very soon.

Eglute Sat 03-Aug-13 08:43:46


Biwi thanks for pots de creme. Mouth watering recipe. I will make them once I finish bootcamp.

Well done to everybody who lost weight. It's very inspiring and makes me try harder smile

HurricaneWyn Sat 03-Aug-13 09:31:02

Stunt - I've always made it with a cheese sauce (cream, cream cheese & whatever bits of cheese are knocking about in the fridge - yesterday was cheddar & parmesan), but I imagine yours will hold together much better.

Please report back on how it goes - I'd be interested to know.

CrabbyBigBottom Sat 03-Aug-13 09:43:17

New I was going to reply to your comment yesterday but got distracted, saying I expected the Over Dramatic Friday! tantrums would be occurring here, as DD was due back after ten days away with her dad at a home educators' festival - code for 'feral children with few boundaries and no fixed bedtimes, expressing themselves creatively in a range of weather conditions.' grin I thought that the transition back to home routine (DD has aspergers and finds change quite difficult) would lead to a meltdown yesterday.

Well there was a spectacular meltdown yesterday, but it was mine, not DD's! blush I totally lost the plot with a neighbour, two of whose kids I'd been looking after all afternoon. They were very excitedly talking about Lord of the Rings all afternoon and said their dad had the second one on blu-ray (DD saw the first one the night before). I said I'd get them all pizza and they could watch the movie. Well no they couldn't, because their dad flatly refused to part with his precious blu-ray disc for 2 hrs so that his children (and my DD) could watch it. I said I would very carefully put it in and take it out of the player, and suggested that he come over and put it in (they live a minute's walk away) and then come and take it out when it had finished. No, he doesn't 'lend' his blu-rays. confused I didn't want to borrow it ffs I just wanted the girls to be able to watch it! It was a final straw situation because I feel like I've done ever such a lot for this family. They don't have an easy time of it at all (four children, one with special needs) so I've never begrudged doing lots of favours even though they aren't returned. I've really tried to like the dad and be understanding, and have tried to explain/defend his behaviour to the mum lots of times when she's been angry with him (marriage under a huge amount of pressure) but fucking hell he is impossible to like! It's just so petty! angry So, shamefully, I ended up having very cross words with him, especially when he came storming over to my house and bellowed for the girls to go home immediately. Their little faces were really sad. I really hope he doesn't stop the daughter who is DD's really good friend from coming round now - she's such a sweet kid and we're all really fond of her.

Anyway, rant over. It was certainly Over Dramatic Friday for me!

L - leftover cauliflower cheese
D - chicken, mushroom, tomato and gruyere cream sauce with courgette 'pasta'.
Wine, 2 teas, loads water.

That raspberry recipe (and that whole blog) looks brilliant. BIWI those chocolate pots look fantastic, I might have to try those this weekend.

MrsHP 4lbs down is fantastic, and enjoy your holiday! Queenie 15lbs in 5 weeks is bloody brilliant. smile

BeenieBaby Sat 03-Aug-13 09:59:59

Wow crabby he sounds like a wanker!

I went to the gym yesterday and had so much energy I was practically bouncing off the walls! I did carb load before goin though with a couple of bananas and a handful of nuts. However I feel crap today! Woke up feeling nauseated and with cramps. I'm not sure if its because of yesterday's carbs or if I just didn't eat / drink enough after the gym... Hope it passes soon as I am feeling completely miserable!!

BIWI Sat 03-Aug-13 10:16:19


You really, really, really don't need to carb load before the gym! The whole point of this WOE is that you're switching your body over to burning fat for fuel, which means you always have a ready source of fuel. Unlike when you're burning carbs, where you quickly use your glycogen stores, which is when you start to feel weak, and therefore have to eat/drink something high in carbs.

Please don't do it next time - you really don't need to, once you've switched your body into fat-burning mode. I train (hard) with a trainer and go running regularly, always in a fasted state. Carbs just aren't necessary for energy.

Sorry that you're feeling crap though. flowers

BIWI Sat 03-Aug-13 10:17:49

Download/have a read of this book, "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" here

CrabbyBigBottom Sat 03-Aug-13 10:51:48

Thanks Beenie, I've made so many allowances for him but that was the final straw. Their other two children have very challenging behaviour (and I have enormous sympathy for them for having to deal with that, especially the child with SN), and the two girls I had with me yesterday are just such lovely, easy going, sweet natured kids. Inevitably they have to compromise a lot and be the 'reasonable' ones when it all kicks off and I just thought 'they've had a really lovely afternoon with DD and were so looking forward to the film and pizza - they don't ask a lot of you and you can't even do this one fucking tiny thing??' angry

Anyway enough ranting from me. blush This sort of thing really plays on my mind. I'm going to resume mad house cleaning now to try and make our shit-pit of a house less of an embarrassment for when our guests arrive.

Hope everyone's having a lovely weekend. x

HeySoulSister Sat 03-Aug-13 10:53:43

I'm off the wagon for a bit

Doing 3 peaks challenge next weekend ( up and down Ben Nevis, scafell pike and snowdon all in just 24 hours)

We have to take all food with us but struggling to think of things to take which will withstand the trip and are low ish carb!

Mouseface Sat 03-Aug-13 11:01:48

Morning, lovely Bootcampers smile

Help please.

I've managed to change my start date and weight on the spreadsheet but the columns to the right, in blue are wrong for me, they have May in them and I joined 17th July.....

Also, I have lost 6lbs since my start date and don't know how or where to put my current weight/date of weigh in, could anyone help me or tell me how please?

I am going to try those Raspberry Cheesecake Slices but could I use strawberries? They look awesome, I know that DH prefers strawberries and we have loads in the garden smile

Okay, so today is -

B - 1 sausage, 2 crispy bacon rashers and a poached egg as I was starved, coffee with cream.

L - HB egg, lettuce, cucumber, 1 slice of corned beef and cheese, blob of mayo.

D - Dea meat! Homemade burgers, minced beef, small amount of finely chopped spring onion, splash of tabasco, black milled pepper, all pressed together in a burger maker and left in the fridge to stay in shape, served with salad.

S - Hazelnuts, a few, HB eggs, Strawberries, Greek yog with d cream, sausages - cold. All of these are ready and at hand, we're going food shopping again today, are prawns okay?


Vinividivino Sat 03-Aug-13 11:34:00

Hello everyone and a happy Low Carb Saturday to all!

Just made a yummy and really quick breakfast (kids running amok, DH in bad mood because I forgot to buy bread - how times have changed - would have had a freezer full, a few weeks ago!). Smoked haddock mixed with full fat Philly and strips of smoked salmon over the top - not wonderful for your breath but bloody lovely nonetheless! Might add some chopped spring onions next time.

Does anyone know the best option to go for when ordering an Indian takeaway? I was thinking a chicken tikka (no masala sauce) and a spinach or cauliflower side order but are there hidden carbs in this that I might be missing? Weight loss has stalled so I need to be extra vigilant. Anything else you like?

Thanks v much!

Vinividivino Sat 03-Aug-13 11:35:11

mouse I think prawns are fine. I eat lots of them. Prawn and avocado salad - yum!

Secondsop Sat 03-Aug-13 14:06:30

Checking into the new thread.

For Indian takeaway I usually get something in a cream-based sauce but I don't eat a lot of the sauce.

crabby that man sounds awful. I really hate it when adults are mean to children.

Yesterday I went to my sister's but she is a total low-carb convert so we had delicious lamb burgers with roasted veg. I also had my first real chocolate since starting this WOE: a bit of green and blacks 85%. I didn't used to like it that much before, preferring the milk chocolates, but presumably my taste buds have adapted as it tasted really sweet!

daisychicken Sat 03-Aug-13 14:33:13

What's the best sweetener to use for some of the treat recipes? I feel it's a bit of a contradiction using artificial sweetener instead of sugar when really we are trying to cut out/minimise processed foods but just occasionally I'd like to make a treat for family tea that even I can have a mouthful of and not feel overly guilty!!

Mouseface Sat 03-Aug-13 15:27:11

Daisy - Aspartame is BAD!

There was a thread on here about it not that long ago but google it, it's not great for you and actually stops you losing weight IIRC? But don't quote me on that!!

Marking place, hope everyone's having a good weekend, will catch up later

daisychicken Sat 03-Aug-13 16:04:01

I know that Mouse but a lot of low carb treat recipes use sweetener. I totally get why we don't have sugar but why is sweetener considered better than a natural product (is it considered natural if it comes from sugar beet?)?

Should we avoid all treat recipes or can we say just once in a while that sweetener or sugar is ok? (& when I read blogs such as the one linked to above... they seem to eat a lot of sweet treats.....!)

BeenieBaby Sat 03-Aug-13 16:13:17

Thanks biwi. Will read the book. It looks like I have a tummy bug sad threw up my breakfast and have had to make several trips to the loo. Feel too ill to eat anything. Have no idea where I could have gotten it from as its only een home cooked food??! sad sad am feeling very sorry for myself. But at least it's the weekend and we didn't have any plans so DH is being very hands on with the kids.

BIWI Sat 03-Aug-13 16:43:02

Oh dear, Beenie - hope you're better soon.

daisy - sweeteners aren't better than sugar! They are artificial and there is some doubt about their long-term safety. Stevia is touted as being more natural, but I'm not sure if this makes it any better than any of the other artificial sweeteners.

The whole point of Bootcamp is to help us break the hold that sugar/sweet things have over us. However, that said, if low carbing is to work for us as a long-term, sustainable WOE then we do need to be able to accommodate treats (of any kind) every now and then.

I would say that whether or not you choose sugar or an artificial sweetener probably depends where you are in your weight loss 'journey' (sorry for appalling cliche!) If you still have a way to go, then I'd suggest that you look to use an artificial sweetener. Whilst there is some suggestion that these can impede weight loss, you are at least not suddenly overloading your system with sugar/carbs.

If you are at or near your target weight, then I'd probably say go for a sugar-based option, because it is at least a natural food. I'd always far rather go for natural over artificial.

But be prepared to see your weight loss stall - or even for you to gain some weight. And be ready for the carb cravings that this might result in.

Also, you might find that it makes you feel a bit odd. I had a night out recently at 'Gin School' with a couple of other MNetters, and we drank several gins, all of which were served with full-sugar tonic. By the time I got home, about an hour after the last drink, I had that horrible, jittery and shaky feeling that you get when your blood sugar has dropped through the floor.

Have you had a read of the recipe thread? I think there are some reasonably low carb desserts on there. I'll see if I can find any more as well.

daisychicken Sat 03-Aug-13 17:00:16

That's probably the point regarding when we have these treats isn't it? We have them when we are maintaining so its not causing problems with loosing weight and the odd lb on will slink off quickly if you keep at the woe..

It's just all these low carb blogs ive been browsing and even the books I've borrowed all have treat recipes which got me thinking about it all!

I've been baking this week with ds2 and I haven't even been tempted once (am amazed as yummy jammie dodgers, Victoria sponge with buttercream, vanilla biscuits and choc topped choc cookies floating around). We don't tend to have puddings anyway so I'm usually full and don't want anything else to eat (what ds2 does make is quickly gobbled in 3 lunchboxes (DH eats tons as very physical job)!).

I did used to get the jitters with low blood sugars and DM has them a lot (no amount of convincing will get her to look at a more low carb way of eating even though she is pretty much there on a coeliac diet - she won't give up her only fruit breakfasts). Eating LC has banished the jitters for me and if I'm busy I don't even think about lunch whereas before I'd be desperate to eat!

Perhaps easier just to not even think about these treats at all!

Mouseface Sat 03-Aug-13 17:05:41

Sorry daisy - I misunderstood. I thought you wanted to know which were particularly bad for you.

Sonkey Sat 03-Aug-13 17:15:43

How about shaslik chicken, it is tikka chicken, peppers , Toms and onions. Dry and no sauce or rice. I think any creamy sauce is also carby.

NewStartNewStory Sat 03-Aug-13 17:21:54

Oh dear crabby that is not good. Perhaps he wanted to watch the film with his dd's but was crap in the manner he expressed it. It might be one of the few nice calm things he gets to do with them if everything else is so chaotic. Shame that it kinda blew up though. sad

I realised today that i tend to make a cup of coffee when i am actually hungry. This explains not only why i forget to eat but also how i end up drinking so much coffee. Off all pain meds atm as not doing well with them. Pain levels are thus higher then i like. It is a vicious circle which i hate. But i did find a use for the bag of frozen peas in the freezer. hmmgrin otoh i am ready to crawl into bed and go straight to sleep.

Mouseface Sat 03-Aug-13 18:42:13

<Snorts at Gin School BIWI grin>

daisychicken Sat 03-Aug-13 18:53:01

S'ok Mouse smile

I do the same but with tea Newstart - I consciously have to think about drinking water instead! Sorry to hear about the pain - could you try a tens machine (depends on where the pain though)?

QueenQueenie Sat 03-Aug-13 19:00:21

Gin school! That sounds like my sort of adult education.

Had lovely lunch in posh pub today. Warm salad of onglet steak (sliced) with watercress, green beans, capers, mustardy vinegraitte (?sp?) topped with some crispy shallotts (not too many!). Yum! Only complaint was that steak not at all fatty.

Washed down with gallons of water.

Vinividivino Sat 03-Aug-13 19:14:25

Thanks for the Indian takeaway tips - I ended up having chicken tikka with a few spoonfuls of spinach, cauliflower and aubergine bhajis - all yummy and I think not too carby.

Get better soon Beenie and NewStart flowers

Secondsop Sat 03-Aug-13 20:17:55

Daisy my mum is the same with blood sugar - always has to have a sweet or chocolate in her coat pocket in case she "feels faint" when out and about yet has a baked potato for lunch every day. She does seem supportive of my LCing as she can see it's working but doesn't seem to get the connection to how it could help her. In fact she keeps banging on about something she saw about the vitamin C in potatoes, no matter how much I say that it's better for me not to eat them.

My food today:

B/l: salmon fillet with chilli, avocado, bit of beetroot with feta.
S: nuts.
D: black farmer sausages with cauliflower cheese (I make it with soft cheese and a bit of grated cheddar, baked).

I had my first experience on this woe of post carb carb-cravings this week - went to drinks at my boss's house and had white wine, and the next day it took everything I had not to eat some carbs. I got through that day though and the next day after that was fine.

BIWI Sat 03-Aug-13 22:32:47

Vini - sounds like you made wise choices there. Hope you enjoyed it!

Eglute Sat 03-Aug-13 22:33:48

Beenie and Newstart I hope you're feeling a bit better xx

Biwi thanks for explaining sugar / sweetener thingy. I'd never go for sweetener. I am sure it is harmful. And sugar is pure poison as well to be honest..

I have been painting and decorating all day today.. My kitchen is coming together finally smile

I've been eating

B eggs fried in butter and mushrooms and one babybel
L mashed swede with drop of double cream, olive oil and mayo
D cooked ham with tomatoes (just few cherry tomatoes) and cucumber. Also avocado with full fat yogurt and few drops of lime

Snack - few slices of cheese. It seems I'm back on track. Two days of boot camping went well. I hope my bathroom scales will treat me well on Monday.

loopyloou Sat 03-Aug-13 23:18:43

Today I had

Breakfast : mushroom omelette with HM mayo and 2 cherry tomatoes
Lunch : 4 rashers of bacon, 2 fried mushrooms and a fried egg
Dinner : 4 small low carb sausages and a big salad with olive oil and lemon juice.
Snack : THREE bags of posh pork scratchings! I know, crazy, but I am suffering with PMS. Also a small glass of wine, 4 decaff black coffees and 2 litres of water.

Alambil Sun 04-Aug-13 01:18:40

Right, I STILL can't get my head round all this...

I've been reading and reading the rules and it just doesn't make sense to my (tiny) brain.

I know the theory - but it really isn't sinking in!

Also, doesn't ketosis = bad? I'm sure I heard that somewhere (probably making it up...)

And I'm going shopping (online) tomorrow... please give me a shopping list!

I'm off work next week so want to get on top of things before I go back.

I just want to lose weight (got 10st to shift) and can't decide if this is the way or perhaps just "proper" eating or "being good".... does that even, ever work?!

Why not give it a try for a month?
Ps: Marks Daily Apple website is a fab resource. The success stories section is fantastically motivating and low carb/high fat natural food eating brilliantly explained, with huge archive of resources.

Oh, there's a PDF shopping list on that site I mentioned which you get free if you sign up for the email newsletter plus some free ebooks.

Low carb friends forum also had lots of questions asked and answered, and Escape the diet trap by Dr John Briffa is on kindle - he also did a MN webchat.

Ketosis is not bad

Getting into it can feel bumpy as you transition to burning fat as primary fuel source (see 'carb flu')
Reduced hunger, increased energy often reported once on ketosis. HTH.

CheeseAndFriedMushrooms Sun 04-Aug-13 07:42:37

Hello all, I have a quick question- what can I do with a bag of spinach?! In ought it yesterday as its low carb and was reduced but now stuck for something yummy. Was thinking of adding it to a cauliflower cheese? It just cooking it and having it with melted butter as a side? blushNormally I would have added it to a pasta dish it lasagne or such. Don't fancy curry today either

Eglute Sun 04-Aug-13 07:49:32

cheese you can fry it in butter and have it as a side. I do eat it with scrambled egg. But usually I eat it as a salad. Just add your favourite veg, chicken or whatever smile.

BIWI Sun 04-Aug-13 07:57:46


Wash the spinach thoroughly, then put it into a saucepan. Put it on a high heat and stir continuously as it wilts - this will only take a minute or two.

Drain the spinach, and then add a large knob of butter to the same pan, along with a crushed clove of garlic. Saute the garlic in the butter, briefly, and then return the drained spinach to the pan. Stir it all together, season with salt and pepper and serve.

Bloody lovely!

BIWI Sun 04-Aug-13 08:10:20


Right, I STILL can't get my head round all this...

I've been reading and reading the rules and it just doesn't make sense to my (tiny) brain.

I know the theory - but it really isn't sinking in!

What is it that doesn't make sense? What have you been reading (other than the rules!)? It is hard to believe that you can eat fat, and that fat doesn't make you fat - because for the last 30 years or so, this is what we have been told. But it is true. If you want some more reading, "Escape the Diet Trap" is a really good place to start. If you want some serious reading, and a bit more convincing, read "The Diet Delusion" by Gary Taubes

This is how we get fat on a high carb diet:

When you eat carbohydrates, your body converts them into glucose. Your pancreas releases a hormone called insulin to deal with this glucose. The insulin does three things:

It moves the glucose in your blood stream into your body's cells for immediate energy (think of that sudden boost you get when you eat a biscuit or a piece of chocolate).

It transports what is left into the liver, where excess energy is converted into glycogen, which is stored in the liver and the muscles, accessible for future energy needs.

Once the glycogen stores are full, what is left over is converted to fat.

When you eat protein or fat, your body does not produce the same insulin response. When you eat protein there is some release of insulin, but it is a small amount. When you eat fat, there is no insulin release

When you consume a lot of carbohydrates, especially carbs that are easy for your body to access, such as sugar or white bread, the levels of glucose in your blood rise rapidly. Your body has to produce a lot of insulin to deal with this and level out your blood sugar.

The more insulin you produce, the more fat you're likely to lay down, as not all of the glucose will be required for immediate energy.

Also, doesn't ketosis = bad? I'm sure I heard that somewhere (probably making it up...)

No! Ketosis simply means that you are burning fat. Ketoacidosis, on the other hand, is dangerous, but this is a different thing.

And I'm going shopping (online) tomorrow... please give me a shopping list!

First thing is to plan your meals. Focus on buying veg/salad that are the lowest amount of carbs - have a look at the list on the bottom of the spreadsheet - there is plenty of veg that is under 3g carbs per 100g.

I'm off work next week so want to get on top of things before I go back.

Great - gives you the time to plan and to cook lots of lovely low carb things. Have you read the recipe thread for inspiration?

I just want to lose weight (got 10st to shift) and can't decide if this is the way or perhaps just "proper" eating or "being good".... does that even, ever work?!

What does 'proper eating' or 'being good' even mean?! I think you'll find that if you follow the rules you will be eating a good, varied and satisfying diet that will help you lose weight painlessly. You really won't feel like you're on a diet.

Bootcamp works! Something like 500 Mumsnetters have already done it!

Good luck flowers

StuntNun Sun 04-Aug-13 08:33:34

Go for it Lewis, give yourself a week to try it properly and post your meals on here so you can get some feedback on any mistakes you might make or tweaks to try. I started mid-June with two stone to lose and I'm already halfway there. Once you see the number on the scales drop then you'll be hooked.

The reason the diet works is that we have been fed misinformation for years about healthy eating and low-fat = good. I had been eating low-fat yoghurt for breakfast for years but when I looked at the ingredients in detail I was appalled as it was full of sugars, thickeners, preservatives, colouring, all in something I thought was healthy. I have switched to full fat Greek yoghurt and the ingredients are... milk and nothing else.

I eat high fat meats such as chicken legs/thighs/wings with the skin on, pork chops, beef or lamb mince, salads with homemade dressing (three spoons olive oil to one spoon vinegar plus seasoning and mustard if required), vegetables fried in butter or roasted in olive oil or boiled/steamed/microwaved and melted butter added afterwards. It really isn't as daunting as it seems at first, you can eat all these luxurious foods and still lose weight.

BIWI Sun 04-Aug-13 08:53:38

If it helps, Lewis, here is the diary I kept when I first started. This was my first week's food - I lost 3.75lbs in this first week. This was before Bootcamp, so there are things included here which wouldn't be allowed on Bootcamp, like Atkins Daybreak bars and alcohol! Hopefully, though, this will show you just how much food you can eat, and what lovely food you can eat:

B: 2 boiled eggs
L: 1 x pork steak, fried in olive oil with baby Brussels sprouts in butter
Snack: Full fat natural yoghurt
D: Roast chicken leg with roast cauliflower, dried chilli and onion (roasted in olive oil), swede pureed with butter and cabbage with black pepper and butter
4 x coffee with semi-skimmed milk, 2 litres (min) water (1 x tap/1+ x sparkling)

B: 1 boiled egg
L: Roast chicken leg with leftover cauliflower, cabbage and swede
D: Roast chicken wings with leftover cauliflower, cabbage and swede
4-5 x coffee with ssm, 2 litres water (1 x tap/1 x sparkling)

B: 1 boiled egg
L: 2 x M&S sausages, ½ yellow pepper fried and boiled runner beans
Snack: Small piece Feta
D: Idiot Proof Diet Moussaka, leeks fried with chilli flakes, broccoli
4 x coffee, 2 litres water (3/4 still/1+ sparkling)

B: 1 boiled egg
L: 2 x M&S sausages, ½ yellow pepper fried and boiled runner beans
Snack: Small portion leftover moussaka
D: Marinated salmon steak with stir fried veg (onion, baby sweetcorn, red pepper, mangetout, chilli, pak choi)
1 x Berocca, 4 x coffee, 2 litres water (1/2 litre still)

B: 2 x poached eggs, dab tomato sauce
L: 2 sausages, pan fried with broccoli and leftover stir-fry veg
D: Chicken tikka, spinach bhaji, cauliflower bhaji (take away)
1 x Berocca 3 x coffee, Prosecco/wine, ½ litre water

Brunch: 2 x rashers back bacon, 2 x fried eggs
Snack: Atkins Daybreak bar
D: Roast pork,crackling, red cabbage with butter and raspberry vinegar, baby sprouts with butter
1 x Berocca, 3 x coffee, ¾ litres water, wine

B: 1 x boiled egg
L: Leftover pork and red cabbage, with crackling (one potato lattice)
Snack: Atkins Daybreak bar, cheese
D: Grilled fillet steak and salad (restaurant)
1 x Berocca, 3 x coffee, wine, ½ litre water

CJCregg Sun 04-Aug-13 09:48:09

Morning grin

I made the raspberry cheesecake last night and it was pretty damn good. But the sweetener was just horrible - there was an overpowering chemically taste that would have spoiled it if the luscious raspberries and cream cheese hadn't won me over. I used Stevia - tricky to know how much to use as it weighs practically nothing, but I doubt I'll use it again.

I would love to find a way of making this without the sugar element, somehow. I read somewhere that honey isn't allowed - is there anything else? Desiccated coconut has its own natural sweetness, as does the fruit - I wonder if I could make it without sugar/sweetener at all? hmm

Anyway, my weight is still stalling. Drop a pound, gain a pound, round and round it goes. Yesterday was bad because I left the house early and didn't come back for hours, but I had:

B: Total yoghurt
L: Cheese and olives (on the run - I know this is not good)
D: Chicken and bacon salad, raspberry cheesecake

3 coffees with cream, 2 litres of water.

CJCregg Sun 04-Aug-13 09:49:51

Oh, and I've just had raspberry cheesecake for breakfast blush

It was just there, sitting in the fridge, staring at me, Your Honour.

daisychicken Sun 04-Aug-13 10:03:34

What would it be like without sugar CJ? If we are weaning ourselves off sugar and it has the sweetness of the raspberries..... might it be sweet enough?

Eglute I agree re sweeteners - I can't get my head round using sweeteners at all let alone on this WOL (& thankfully DH & kids agree with me).

SecondSop - we can take comfort in the fact both our mums won't listen! wink

BIWI Sun 04-Aug-13 10:35:39

CJCregg - you're not eating enough, you're not eating enough veg and I think you're probably eating too much dairy.

Take out the artificial sweeteners as well, especially if you're not losing. This is going to be a recipe for disaster on the weight loss front.

Remember, Bootcamp is really about not eating sweet things!

CJCregg Sun 04-Aug-13 11:09:36

BIWI - I know, I know! The cheesecake was a one-off because I had a friend over for dinner and wanted to make a pudding. I won't do it again, promise blush. Also, the sweeteners were yuk.

So, should I cut out cheese? Cream? And bump up the vegetables? I get confused about amounts. Really confused. I need to work out what the balance should be. Sorry grin

BIWI Sun 04-Aug-13 11:39:04

If you're losing/gaining/losing/gaining - i.e. you're not seeing sustained losses, then try and cut out cheese, milk and yoghurt altogether for a few days. You can still eat butter.

Make sure that lunch and dinner you have some veg and salad. Butter on the veg and mayo/oily dressing on the salad. Make your protein choices fattier cuts if you can.

Have a look at Ubercamp, on the spreadsheet - there are three days' worth of dairy-free meals on there as a guide/inspiration.

NewStartNewStory Sun 04-Aug-13 12:01:01


made the mistake of dilute squash yesterday. forgotten how addictive it can be. Nice to be off pain killers and actually sleeping. Haven't used a tens machine but ice packs seem to work well (and help with sleeping in this heat) And I get to see a new physio to see if he can reduce the pain. Which will be interesting. Waiting to see what he makes of the situation because it is not as simple as "Oh you have fibro" It is a case of "You have fibro and like to do stupid things? Are you crazy" grin Fibro is better atm. Managed to get the stress completely reduced which significantly helps everything. And i am pretty sure this woe does help, along with the associated weight loss. Still under the impression that BIWI is a genius.

What i am noticing is that when i do go off track it is no where near as destructive/bad and the past. I mostly try to stick to bootcamp/bootcamp light rules even if i might have fallen into a packet of naughty stuff at 3am one night last week, it was just the one and didn't then involve me making cake/ice cream whatever. I have decided that I want to make a new target for sept and have decided that 10 1/2 stone is the weight i want to reach. Hopefully this will help me maintain focus. It is half a stone in 4 weeks. perhaps a little optimistic but i am pretty certain i have been avoiding ketosis mostly recently and still lost so with proper focus who knows what is possible!
<hauls on ass back onto the wagon!>

Secondsop Sun 04-Aug-13 12:09:04

lewisfan, BIWI has explained it all brilliantly but I really recommend doing some further reading if you are still struggling to get round what is probably quite a departure from what you've been led to believe in the past. As well as the john briffa book i also really recommend Gary Taubes' "Why we get fat" which is a slightly simpler version of The Diet Delusion.

I've got a similar amount of weight to lose as you, and have been eating low carb since may and lost 1 stone, which isn't particularly speedy but I honestly don't feel like I've been deprived of food. On any other diets I've tried I've stuck to them about 3 months and then lost the will when I've realised how much more time I'll be on it, but this way of eating is one I feel I can follow forever. It also works WITH your body - rather than feeling youre depriving your body of something and constantly fighting hunger, this w-o-e turns your body into using an additional food source - your own fat. So you genuinely won't feel hungry after a while.

I would say stick with it for 6 weeks at least though, as a lot of people (including me) report no weight loss between around weeks 3-5 although it all catches up in the followkng weeks. so if you stop after 4 weeks you might miss out on the benefits to follow.

Alambil Sun 04-Aug-13 12:12:32

Thanks everyone. I'm going to add my shopping list/plan when I surgically remove the laptop from my son!

Alambil Sun 04-Aug-13 13:27:51

ok, how's this? (it's expensive, it seems! sad)

Drink; I'll go cold turkey and switch to water. I don't "do" tea or coffee, but do do a small amount of diet coke.... eek!

Fresh veg will come from the market, to save money

b: boiled egg (2 probably)
l: tuna salad? (can I eat white cabbage instead of lettuce?) cucumber, mushrooms, 3 cherry tomatoes, tiny bit spring onion, baby corn (allowed?), runner beans and a little mayo (helmans full fat)
d: roast chicken (skin on... must make it crispy!) and boiled veg (frozen mix; broccoli, peas, cauli, few sliced carrots)

b: eggs again
l: chicken? salad / omlette
d: pork belly (roasted), crackling (yum!), veg again (see above)

b: eggs (woo!)
l: omelette (plain or with mushrooms / chicken)
d: pork belly or chicken and veg (see above!)

b: can you guess?
l: omelette or tuna salad
d: gammon with veg

b: um, eggs again (yes you'll probably think it's boring, but I don't "do" breakfast so something small will be best)
l: chicken salad
d: gammon and veg

see Monday

b: eggs
l: a fry up, I think as a treat! (eggs, raw mushrooms, bacon, tomatoes... not sure what else)
d: roast chicken and veg

I am a little restricted in my tastes (don't like spicy/chilli things at all or curries) which is why it seems a little bland... not sure how to make it more exciting (on a low-ish budget: £40pw which includes breakfast and lunch stuff for DS!)

... what do you think?

NewStartNewStory Sun 04-Aug-13 13:41:00

Lewis I use frozen veg to help keep the cost down. Plus it is quick to cook as I can just shove it in the microwave for a few mins.

Vinividivino Sun 04-Aug-13 13:42:34

Back on the topic of sweet stuff (artificial or otherwise), I came across this shop Low Carb Megastore and no carb chocolate. I read the ingredients and I don't understand how these can possibly be no carbs...all that sweetener. I am assuming that, regardless of the artificiality of them, these would be forbidden anyway?

[ No carb chocolate]

They have other things like low carb choc marshmallows etc. would love it to be true but is this a gimmick?

Vinividivino Sun 04-Aug-13 13:43:19

Oops, sorry reporting link

Vinividivino Sun 04-Aug-13 13:43:58

Reposting, not reporting.......blooming fat fingers!

Alambil Sun 04-Aug-13 13:50:29

Newstart - sorry didn't make myself clear; dinner veg will be frozen (already got a drawer full!) but salad bits will be from the market smile

BIWI Sun 04-Aug-13 13:55:33


b: boiled egg (2 probably)
l: tuna salad? (can I eat white cabbage instead of lettuce?) cucumber, mushrooms, 3 cherry tomatoes, tiny bit spring onion, baby corn (allowed?), runner beans and a little mayo (helmans full fat)
d: roast chicken (skin on... must make it crispy!) and boiled veg (frozen mix; broccoli, peas, cauli, few sliced carrots)

Yes you can eat cabbage instead of lettuce - although it will be carbier. Baby corn is allowed. Why only a little mayo?! You need the fat so have plenty. You also should be looking at an oily dressing on your salad. Chicken skin is yum, but agree, it has to be crispy! Frozen veg is brilliant, I think, but this mix isn't great - you need one without the peas and carrots

b: eggs again
l: chicken? salad / omlette
d: pork belly (roasted), crackling (yum!), veg again (see above)

Again, make sure you have fat on your veg/dressing on your salad

b: eggs (woo!)
l: omelette (plain or with mushrooms / chicken)
d: pork belly or chicken and veg (see above!)

You could always ring the changes and have scrambled eggs, made with butter?! Same comment about fat/dressing on your veg/salad

b: can you guess?
l: omelette or tuna salad
d: gammon with veg

If you think you're going to get bored of eggs, don't plan to eat them every day! This diet isn't about being bored.

b: um, eggs again (yes you'll probably think it's boring, but I don't "do" breakfast so something small will be best)
l: chicken salad
d: gammon and veg

see Monday

b: eggs
l: a fry up, I think as a treat! (eggs, raw mushrooms, bacon, tomatoes... not sure what else)
d: roast chicken and veg

Overall, I think this is a pretty good plan - but please, please, please make sure that you are eating plenty of fat. It's really important. And do you know how much water you should be drinking? Clue: loads! Just in case you haven't seen it, this is from Bootcamp rules:

"The more weight you have to lose, the more water you should drink. This is from Water is essential to weight loss for those who eat low-carb. The minimum consumed in a day should be:
Your Weight--------Litres
High levels of ketones in the blood stream can lead to a reduction in ketone production, therefore being well hydrated could aid in keeping the levels low and ketone production ongoing. Consuming enough water can have many other positive side effects: aids your kidneys with the processing of protein, reduces the retention of water, helps with preventing constipation, and reduces the levels of ketones released by your breath, which in-turn will reduce breath odour. However, drinking a lot of water can mean that you also need to keep an eye on your electrolyte balance. You need to make sure that you are consuming sufficient sodium and potassium. On a low carb diet we can eat more salt, so make sure that you are cooking with salt and adding salt to food, if you like it. Good, low carb, sources of potassium are spinach (raw), avocado, mushrooms, courgettes and asparagus, as well as salmon and yoghurt."

Alambil Sun 04-Aug-13 14:12:40

yeah I've read about the water volume thing - it's scary! I'm getting a water filtration thingymajig jug to take the white bits out of my tap water!

I will add mayo/oil sauce to salad smile - I love mayo. Can I buy a salad dressing? I don't make them right... they always taste weird!

I will use butter in veg; that'll take some getting used to! I've never cooked veg with anything other than water... eek!

and I'll get a different veg; I'll get broccoli, cauli, beans?, ummmmm.... not sure what else (will look at the rules list)

I'm afraid I'll have to use the frozen veg I have atm which does have peas and carrots, but it will only take 2/3 days to get through...

BIWI Sun 04-Aug-13 14:25:50

Don't buy salad dressings - they are expensive anyway - as they always seem to have sugar in them!

Easy, hme-made vinaigrette:

5 tablespoons olive oil
1 tablespoon wine vinegar
salt and black pepper

Mix/shake/stir - that's it! If you prefer a more vinegary taste, reduce the oil:vinegar proportions from 5:1 to 3:1

timidviper Sun 04-Aug-13 15:11:35

Vini The reason low-carb sweet things and choc are classed as low carb despite looking high is that the carbs are non-absorbable sugars which pass straight through you.

That is why all sugarfree sweets have a warning about a laxative effect on, they are a solid version of lactulose (GPs prescribe that for constipation)

On the first bootcamp I did I had a spectacular episode of trying to turn myself inside out through my bumhole after a surprisingly small number of sugarfree fruit chews! grin

timidviper Sun 04-Aug-13 15:15:10

By the way I made a pudding last night that was greek yoghurt mixed with double cream, rippled with a raspberry puree (yes it was slightly sweetened but I did that to taste) with berries and toasted flaked almonds. It was a bit Eton Mess-ish and looked lovely in little glass dishes.

StuntNun Sun 04-Aug-13 15:19:38

Another alternative to boiled eggs Lewis is egg-in-a-cup. Shell one or two boiled eggs, put them in a mug with butter, salt and pepper then mash with a fork.

CJCregg Sun 04-Aug-13 15:21:51

Ok, I'm going to ask a really stupid question. But it's something I can't get my head round.

I'm supposed to eat fat. But cut out dairy. But why is some dairy ok? Butter, for instance? Is cream better than milk? I don't understaaaaand. Is the idea that if you're going to have some dairy, butter is better than anything else?

I know I shouldn't really be having milk but I have to have coffee and won't drink it black, so I'm only having a teeny bit, or some cream. Which is better? confused

<beats head on desk, repeatedly>

I really want this to work but I just don't seem to be able to do it right.

BIWI Sun 04-Aug-13 15:26:56

Butter is fine because it's at least 80% fat and a very small amount of milk solids read this

If you can't do without coffee (I have never given up drinking coffee!), then cream is better than milk as it is lower in carbs.

Cutting out dairy means cutting out milk, cream, cheese and yoghurt.

CJCregg Sun 04-Aug-13 17:44:29

Thanks, BIWI grin

Ok, so I'm going to cut the cheese and yoghurt, and just have a bit of cream in coffee. And have lots of butter and mayo grin

I am still twitching slightly at having typed that last sentence. Years of low-fat dieting, I tell you, years.

Vinividivino Sun 04-Aug-13 18:04:04

Haha! Poor you Timid! Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense, so, although I appreciate they are really bad for you because they are full of nonsense, would they derail the weight loss do you think? Love the sound of your Eton Messy type dessert! Yum! Have a very bad willpower day - sleep-deprived, still feeding baby so eating everything low carb in sight and in copious quantities so may go for broke and make that too to cheer myself up!

Vinividivino Sun 04-Aug-13 18:15:28

Today I had (oh this is going to be bad!):

B - 3 fried rashers of bacon,2 fried eggs, Total yoghurt with raspberries

L - salmon terrine (in a cafe so no idea how carby but looked the least carby option) with lots of roasted veg and salad

S - pkt of (those damned) pork scratchings, 3 slices of cheese, 3/4 spoonfuls of leftover curry, 2squares of Green and Blacks 85% chocolate. Small bowl of blueberries and double cream.

D - steamed monkfish, peas and leaks with cauliflower mash (made with cheese and butter). 2 slices of cheese.

BIWI- is there a limit on volume of food we eat? Am I eating too much? Feel really fat but not full today for some reason. Am still feeding a 5.5 month old baby so maybe that's why. Drinking lots of water.

BIWI Sun 04-Aug-13 18:47:31

Vini - no limit on the amount of food you eat. Eat until you are satisfied. Portion sizes do come into play at some point, obviously - this isn't carte blanche to stuff your face! - but whilst you're getting into this WOE it's important that you make sure you're not hungry.

If you're still breastfeeding, then you need to eat more anyway.

Can I ask - why are you steaming your fish? There will be no fat involved in that! And drop the peas! They are way, way too carby!

I assume that you are doing Bootcamp Light, seeing as you're eating fruit and chocolate ...

CJCregg Sun 04-Aug-13 18:58:36

I had bacon and eggs and salad for lunch. For dinner I'm having an omelette with aubergines, courgettes and half a red onion. (Ran out of meat/fish, hence the eggs).

I might have to finish up the raspberries later blush

BIWI Sun 04-Aug-13 18:59:40

Don't worry too much about it, CJ - they are relatively low in carbs.

StuntNun Sun 04-Aug-13 19:12:44

I'm breastfeeding too Vini (8.5 month old) and I find I'm eating a lot more than my DH. You don't want to be going hungry as you need to make sure your milk supply is adequate. Are you taking a supplement?

I started straight onto Bootcamp Light and now I'm thinking about doing ubercamp and Bootcamp next month once the kids start school again. But I can't eat eggs so I'm not sure what I would be able to have for breakfast I I ditch my usual Greek yoghurt. Does anyone have any suggestions?

B: strawberries, Greek yoghurt and double cream - yum
S: Babybels
L: barbecued lamb chop, sausage, steak burger, courgettes, red pepper (little bit) and mushrooms
D: roast chicken, one roast potato, one roast sweet potato, buttered leeks

loopyloou Sun 04-Aug-13 19:48:46

Today I had bacon, egg and mushrooms for breakfast, for lunch salad with a little grated mayo and a little greek yog with 10 blueberries and for dinner home made burgers with cauliflower in butter and wilted spinach in butter. Snack of pork scratchings, 4 coffees and 2 litres of water.

Negroni Sun 04-Aug-13 21:49:13

Hello! Meant to post at the end of the last thread but the threads are just moving so fast!

Welcome to all the newbies and well done to everyone losing weight. I am quite envy as I am just staying the same at the moment - ie moving up and down and up and down. Been a tricky patch of having non stop guests for about 2 weeks - last one went on Saturday meaning lots of shopping and dinner preparations. Plus trying to work without adequate childcare for various dull reasons. Just means I have fallen off the wagon a few times, at events, because I was cooking a carby dinner for others, because I had too much to drink etc and so my weight is just moving up and down when really I want it to go down. Especially as I am basically doing low carb and then falling off the wagon for nothing spectacular.

Anyway, the guests and my excuses are gone so need to get started again. BIWI seriously thinking of using your early food diary as a guide! Thanks for the (not so) new thread and for the chicken and noodles and the chocolate pots recipes - both look lovely,

Crabby your neighbour sounds bonkers! That is bizarre behaviour!

Right will post again when I have done something to lost some of this weight. Hopefully the stories of those of you who have been on the WOE for 6 weeks and lost more than I have in 3 months will motivate me to stick to this properly even when real life gets in the way.

Eglute Sun 04-Aug-13 23:13:22

biwi thanks for all info you're throwing here. Much appreciated!!

B fried cabbage and bacon ( never had fried cabbage before. But I will be having it every day now it is soooooo yummy)
L tesco finest steak burger topped with a nit of cheese, mayo and mustard + salad with olive oil
D salad with a little bit of feta

Not too much water today.. And I had half of a biscuit.. I hope it didn't ruined everything...

Vinividivino Mon 05-Aug-13 05:49:35

Thanks BIWI and StuntNun. Yes doing Bootcamp light but may need to do Ultra for a couple of days. I'm pleased to know about quantity not being too much of a problem. BIWI - steamed fish, I didn't even think a bout frying it - good point! Old habits die hard!

CheeseAndFriedMushrooms Mon 05-Aug-13 07:59:40

Thanks so much to BIWI for all her help and support on here. In week 1 of doing this WOE, I have lost 7lbs! I am now 12st3. And being honest I did have a few wobbles like the odd fairy cake and the odd square of dairy milk choc so it's really amazing. I did ease myself into the diet the week before by cutting out bread and pasta, but this WOE is just so do-able! I have at least another stone to lose, but I cannot believe how much weight has dropped off and that I can actually see a change. Breastfeeding a 4 month old helps, but if anyone knows if there are eggs on offer anywhere as I must have gotten through at least 30 this week blush

Have a good day everyone and good luck!

captainmummy Mon 05-Aug-13 08:43:37

Cheese - I buy mine from the local farm shop (it helps that it's a chicken farm!) in trays of 30. The medium ones are £5 but sometimes around this time of year-ish there are pullet eggs - ones from new layers. They are about £3 a tray! Small tho...

BIWI Mon 05-Aug-13 08:48:19

Great going, Cheese! flowers

BIWI Mon 05-Aug-13 08:52:15


Right will post again when I have done something to lost some of this weight. Hopefully the stories of those of you who have been on the WOE for 6 weeks and lost more than I have in 3 months will motivate me to stick to this properly even when real life gets in the way.

But ...

Really, the whole point of this as a WOE is that it's just that - a way of eating, and not a diet. Once you know the health benefits of low carbing (beyond weight loss) it's something that you should be able to follow forever. So it becomes 'real life'! And just like life, it's unpredictable and you will have good days and bad days. The best thing to do is to take a step back and look at your overall, longer term progress - it's downwards, is it not? Stop focussing on the day-to-day so much, enjoy what you're eating/doing and you will lose that weight.

I know when we want to lose weight that we want it gone by yesterday, but it's also important to enjoy what we're eating now - because this is what will help us to stick to the plan. So just accept that every now and then things will happen that mean we don't stick so rigidly to it. Sometimes you can't help that - sometimes you might choose it.

Eglute Mon 05-Aug-13 08:56:43

Well done Cheese.

Good morning everyone smile

I had Greek yogurt with cream and raspberries for breakfast today. It felt like a huge amount of diary to be taken in one meal.. How much of yogurt do you usually have for breakfast?

Eglute Mon 05-Aug-13 09:36:16

I am emarrased to ask but I hope you can help me..

What is it with constipation? Is it me or is it common in this WOE? I know rice, boiled carrots and eggs can cause it but I do eat a lot of veg and drink 3L of water and avoid eggs (rice and carrots as well obviously)m but it is not helping.. sad

Eglute Mon 05-Aug-13 10:35:31

Why have I been deleted from Spreadsheet? confused

Have I done something wrong?

i can still see you eglute? in alphabetical order?

Eglute Mon 05-Aug-13 10:40:34

Oh no, sorry.. I found myself.. smile

It seems I am talking to myself today smile))

is it genuine constipation (need to go but can't) or are you just going less frequently than you feel you should?

if the former, and you're eating plenty of fat and low carb veg and drinking plenty of water, then some people have tried psyllium husks as a supplement (i haven't tried this) or ground flaxseed (i find this makes my weight loss stall, others don't). i was taking a magnesium supplement for a while and had to reduce the dose as it made me go too frequently, so you could try that if you wanted.

Eglute Mon 05-Aug-13 10:58:21

thanks Willie yeah, I found myself. of course it is in alphabetical order! smile

I go only every other day and it is painfull.. so I will try one of your suggested options. Thank you flowers

BIWI Mon 05-Aug-13 11:25:04

How much yoghurt did you have, Eglute? If I have it for breakfast I usually have two very generous tablespoons - but I've never weighed it!

Eglute Mon 05-Aug-13 11:27:41

Oh dear.. I had more than half a glass.. no more dairy for me today then..

BIWI Mon 05-Aug-13 11:41:32

That doesn't sound too bad - why the concern? Do you think you have a problem with dairy?

Eglute Mon 05-Aug-13 11:45:43

It was a lot. Well it felt a lot but I was hungry and had no time for cooking this morning. I never had yogurt for breakfas in this WOE before.

TBH I do not think I have any problems with dairy but I better keep it as low as possible..
Even tho I was off the wagon for a few days last week my weight stayed the same smile

BIWI Mon 05-Aug-13 11:47:32

But why are you worried about it? I don't get the problem!

If you're hungry, then eat! This WOE is not about deprivation. It's about eating good, natural and filling food.

And I hope it was full fat yoghurt?!

QueenQueenie Mon 05-Aug-13 11:55:43

Eglute. I have been having a truly generous amount (I'd say at least 2 big tablespoons) of full fat total yoghurt most mornings for breakfast and it has been no problem at all. If it makes you anxious don't do it! But honestly it shouldn't be a problem... if it turns out to be you can adjust accordingly?

BeenieBaby Mon 05-Aug-13 12:57:14

Finally feel back to normal! It was definitely a tummy bug in our house as DS threw up a couple of times yesterday too. I couldn't face lc while I was ill and only managed a couple of slices of toast over the weekend and today I've one back into lc. I can already feel the carb cravings but plan to stick to it now that I feel better. The thought of a fish is making me feel ill so it may have to be a vegetarian lc couple of days!

BlackAffronted Mon 05-Aug-13 13:06:19

<slinks back in 10lb heavier>

BIWI Mon 05-Aug-13 13:12:26

Uh oh! What have you been up to, BlackAffronted? grin

Eglute Mon 05-Aug-13 13:18:53

It was full fat yogurt with double cream..BIWI
Queenie yeah, it made me feel anxious. I won't do it again..

Eglute Mon 05-Aug-13 13:19:39

Bennie brew this is for you..I hope you all will feel better soon smile

BlackAffronted Mon 05-Aug-13 13:20:17

Have had 4 weeks off the WOE, 2 of them were a holiday. Think Im lucky to have only gained 10lbs. Got back om Sat, and I am now fully back into things smile

BeenieBaby Mon 05-Aug-13 13:21:07

Thanks eglute!

BIWI Mon 05-Aug-13 13:33:58

But Eglute, why is it making you so anxious?

Eglute Mon 05-Aug-13 13:48:28

BIWI I don't know.. Maybe because I read we should be careful eating too much dairy.. I wasn't so anxious when I had a biscuit TBH.. I don't know.. Well if I ever have yogurt for breakfast again I will have a bit less then..

BIWI Mon 05-Aug-13 13:54:10

The only way to find out if you have an issue with dairy is to see what happens when you eat it! If you're not losing weight, then cut it out completely (apart from butter), and see what happens

BIWI Mon 05-Aug-13 13:54:30

Beenie - glad to hear you're better!

Eglute Mon 05-Aug-13 13:57:17

Will do, thanks BIWI

Negroni Mon 05-Aug-13 14:05:43

Thanks BIWI - correct the trend is downwards and the WOE does work for me. I will attempt to take on a more zen mindset and not be so impatient.

Just frustrating when life gets in the way as I do want to lose the weight I need to lose! I just get envy when I read of others managing to lose lbs in the time that I have just been bobbing up and down.

Hi Black long time no see! I too am trying to kick start things properly and do a bit of sustained low carbing.

captainmummy Mon 05-Aug-13 14:09:40

Eglute - I sometimes have Lidl yog for breakfast, and have at least 100ml. (In fact, If i have a 1L tub of it in the fridge it will only last me 2 days blush )
I imagine it is a major source of calcium, along with cheese and cream, so I don;t have any problem eating it. Is it that after 30 years of being told fat is bad, that you feel bad/guilty about eating it? If so, DON'T! Fat is not bad, sugar IS! You should be feeling a lot more guilty about eating biscuits (empty carbs) that eating full fat yog.

Eglute Mon 05-Aug-13 14:23:20

Captainmummy yeah, I had the Lidl one. I guess the quantity of it made me feel so anxious. And adding double cream didn't help as well. I had about 180ml I guess. And I only had half of digestive biscuit so I didn't feel as bad.. I am still trying to switch from thinking Fat makes you fat but I need to think Sugar makes you fat..

Thank you for your support.. All of you girls are so very kind flowers

Mouseface Mon 05-Aug-13 14:36:44

Afternoon smile

Can I just say that I am now in Ketosis <does tiny celebratory hobble jump>

I tested my pee this morning and I'm starting to turn a darker shade of pink than the first block smile

Well done to everyone who's losing and doing well. I've started to try foods I'd never had thought of before. And enjoying them!! shock

And, I've started to only eat when I'm hungry, BUT ALWAYS have breakfast, lunch and dinner. Which is all thanks to you BIWI, I was never really a breakfast person before.

The work you've put into this thread is fantastic. Thank you so much, you are really helping me to get it - FAT + WATER = Smaller Mouse grin

You are ace! thanks xxx

BIWI Mon 05-Aug-13 15:52:28


BlackAffronted Mon 05-Aug-13 16:54:08

Tonights dinner is probably a wee bit carby, but utterly delicious blush

Butternut squash
tinned toms
3 shallots, diced
fennel seeds
pinch smoked paprika

All bunged in the slow cooker. Its amazing.

BlackAffronted Mon 05-Aug-13 16:54:59

I ate about a third of it - too many carbs do you think?

Renovatinghouse Mon 05-Aug-13 16:57:02

Hello! Can I join please? I started a low carb diet almost 4 weeks ago to lose my post pregnancy massive weight gain and I am in ketosis now. I have lost 5 kilos but have 25 more to go, a long way! I hope I can make it, my goal is to get there by December.

Nice to meet you all!

timidviper Mon 05-Aug-13 17:32:21

Black Technically butternut squash is too high in carbs for bootcamp but my theory is that it is allowed on IPD so, if you are going to bend the rules, it's not that bad a way to do it. Only time and the scales will tell!

I realised fairly recently, after losing the same half a stone for about the 3rd time since Xmas that the positive thing about this way of eating is that we can come back to it. When I have done SW or WW I'd have lost that half stone the first time then given up and put that and even more back on, at least with this I am able to pick it up and start again. We are gradually moving onwards and downwards and it doesn't matter how slowly, it's better than going up!

Good to see you again Evil Twin!

timidviper Mon 05-Aug-13 17:33:10

Hello and welcome Renovating smile

StuntNun Mon 05-Aug-13 17:56:56

I tried the emmental lasagne (bolognese alternated with thin slices of emmental cheese) but remain unconvinced. It looked like lasagne and tasted okay (a bit like cheeseburger without the bun) but it was way too rich, I think a big side salad would have helped. But then lasagne is one of my favouritist foods so maybe a low carb version isn't close enough to keep me happy.

B: strawberries, Greek yoghurt and double cream
S: Peperami and pork scratchings
L: cauliflower and broccoli soup, chicken and Brie salad
D: low carb lasagne
Too much cheese today by a long shot and I'm not sure exactly what was in the soup. Must try harder!

StuntNun Mon 05-Aug-13 17:57:28

Aargh DH is eating a peach. Should I stop him?

NewStartNewStory Mon 05-Aug-13 18:16:41

Depends whether he is doing this woe, depends whether you are feeling competitive and want to allow him to hinder himself. yeah probably.

captainmummy Mon 05-Aug-13 19:00:09

Renovating -welcome. Have you read the rules?

Black - good to see you back - i've missed your cooking !
Stuntnun - I've done the lasagne and really liked it. I am going to do that for tomorrow dinner!

Breakfast - lidl yog and 2 raspberries (last of my harvest sad) Black Rooibos tea with coconut oil
lunch - salad, 3 cherry toms from greenhouse, bits of Mattesons 'hot and spicy' sausage blush
dinner - cauliflower cheese, last tomato, rest of hot and spicy sausage.

Might do a coffee-and-cream to use up the dairy, then go non-dairy for a few days. (apart from the cheese in the lasagne.....grin)

loopyloou Mon 05-Aug-13 19:41:16

Hello Renovating.

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

Today I had bacon, egg, fried left over cauliflower and mushrooms for breakfast, egg mayo and salad for lunch, for dinner chilli con carne without beans with grated cheese and snacks of pork scratchings, 2 tbsp of yog, 3 slices of salami and a Babybel, 4 black decaff coffees and not enough water, just 1 litre so far.

I'm quite pleased though, as my period started today and I worked all day, normally I would comfort eat to the max!

Renovatinghouse Mon 05-Aug-13 20:55:12

Hello captain, what rules do I need to read?

timidviper Mon 05-Aug-13 21:20:31

Renovating In BIWIs original post is a link to the spreadsheet where people record their weights should they so wish. Along the botom of it you will see tabs that give you loads of info; carb counts of veg, bootcamp rules, veggie rules, etc. Have a browse through and give a shout with any questions. There's always someone around to help.

The hardest thing is getting your head around things like eating full fat stuff, cheese, cream, etc as it goes against the advice we've all followed for so long. There is links to lots of articles and things justifying it though when you have time to read.

Alambil Mon 05-Aug-13 22:13:59

can we eat leeks? the hairy bikers do a great leek lasagne Stunt

And - am I allowed yoghurt on the first 2 weeks? (stupid question alert!)

Also - wtf am I going to do when I get my monthly carb craving? <eek>

BIWI Mon 05-Aug-13 22:16:34

Yes you can eat leeks - they are 3.7g carbs per 100g

Yes, you can have yoghurt!

Hopefully once you are into low carbing you will not be hungry - you may also find that all/most of your pre-menstrual symptoms will disappear!

How has day 1 been, Lewis?

Alambil Mon 05-Aug-13 22:44:12

um, well - I decided to post pone it a day.

Just had my kitchen renovated (as in completely) and ALL my crockery/pans etc were under my stairs, covered in an inch of sawdust... so today was spent washing it all down and organising my new cupboards...

I'm now ready and set to go; I'm going shopping tomorrow, woo!

I also had a "last supper" meal tonight; Chinese take away and diet coke!

CrabbyBigBottom Mon 05-Aug-13 23:22:05

Thanks Negroni and New. No it wasn't that he wanted to watch it with them - they'd already seen it, they just wanted to watch it again because DD had only seen the first one and they spent the whole day talking about how much they all love Legolas and who their favourite characters are. grin Anyway I ordered it from Amazon on Saturday and it arrived today so they watched it this afternoon.

Well I've been totally off-piste so I'm not going to list my food over the last few days! blush We had a wonderful day on the canal boat yesterday with lots of food, so a treat worth putting a few lbs on for. Today I've had fried bread and toast with jam, then went completely haywire this afternoon and made an improvised version of cassoulet, with sausages, bacon, leftover chicken, shallots, herbs, three types of beans and breadcrumbs, all drenched in goose fat! I blame the hangover. hmm

One thing I've really noticed is how much my tummy bloats when I eat bread. I'd never noticed before doing this diet, but I really notice now; there's a big difference.

Welcome to the new joiners btw. smile

NewStartNewStory Tue 06-Aug-13 00:31:26

I get stomach cramps if i eat anything that is heavy in starchy carbs now. It is not a pleasant experience. Need to go cold turkey on the coffee to kill off the sweet cravings bumping off the wagon that seem to be linked to the lack of sleep caused by caffine and the sweetner in the coffee to make it tollerable. Need to get caffine free. I think ds being away again is the perfect time to do it. And reduce between now and sat. There may be much wobbling on sun. And i reserve the right to throw a toddler style temper tantrum just because

StuntNun Tue 06-Aug-13 03:46:23

Thanks Lewis the [[

StuntNun Tue 06-Aug-13 03:47:20

Thanks Lewis the leek lasagne looks lush!

prettybird Tue 06-Aug-13 09:07:48

Been away for the weekend, so just marking my place smile

Eglute Tue 06-Aug-13 09:22:28

Good morning and welcome new joiners! flowers

LEWIS my new kitchen will be finished until Friday (I hope) smile

I tied Lidl yogurt this morning again. I only had one big table spoon so I feel good about it. As I never was keen on sweets I made my yogurt a bit different - I added olive oil and salt and it tasted heavenly to me smile Creamy fat and salty.. yum smile

Nun Thabks for lasagne !! it looks lush, you are right!

StuntNun Tue 06-Aug-13 10:28:56

I can do up a pair of size 12 trousers! Okay I can't breathe and I wouldn't want to try bending over but they do up! I'm equally disappointed by the fact that my favourite dressing gown is now too big for me. Never mind, I'm going to stay with my mum next week so I'll probably pile some weight back on. smile

BIWI Tue 06-Aug-13 10:53:17


and noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Make sure that you have a contingency plan in place for being at your mum's - it would be such a shame if you were to put it all back on again.

Do the shopping for her. Do the cooking. Take stuff with you. Go out to places where you know you can low carb .....

HurricaneWyn Tue 06-Aug-13 10:57:44

Stunt - I'm sorry you didn't like the emmental lasagne. It's one of my favourite low carb dinners (I add more cheese & cream though blush ). Great news about the size 12's though - breathing & bending is overrated wink

I made Butter Chicken curry in the slowcooker over the weekend - had it for dinner on Saturday & Sunday. It was delicious & I'll def be making it again. I have paprika pork in the slowcooker now, looking forward to that!

Yesterday I was busy all day & didn't have a bite to eat until 5ish by which stage I was starving. So I had a takeaway blush. I made the lowest choice available to me locally - chicken kebab with salad & garlic mayo, with no bread. Still quite carby though, I think. Better prepared today now.

I also finally weighed on Sunday. Much higher than I thought, but at least I now have a figure that lets me know if I'm losing.

Good luck to everyone else & hope you all have a great day.

BIWI Tue 06-Aug-13 12:11:22

Hurricane - also a good idea to find an article of clothing that is currently too tight, and use that as your 'yardstick'. Sometimes the scales don't accurately reflect what's going on with our bodies. It's also much more rewarding, IME, to see your clothes fitting you better.

BlackAffronted Tue 06-Aug-13 12:38:22

timid, I find the same thing, this is so easy to return to and even when I fall off by the wayside, I dont pile on all the weight & give up. I imagine I will be returning a lot grin

Getting so excited to start college, my start date is 4 weeks today! The college canteen has a salad bar & does fry ups (already chacked hee hee) so should be fine to stick to the woe.

Cherrypi Tue 06-Aug-13 17:46:24

Hi all. I'm bootcamp lighting now and doing okish. Been cheating a bit but have noticed my face bloats up when I eat carbs now. Today I've had:

B yoghurt and raspberries
S babybel
L bacon fried egg and salad
S a bit of coconut milkshake shock
D lamb curry and butter fried leeks

3 cups of tea and 2 glasses of water.

StuntNun Tue 06-Aug-13 18:48:34

I've cut down on the dairy a bit today after yesterday's cheese extravaganza. blush

B: two slices bacon and fried mushrooms
L: beef salad with homemade vinaigrette
D: roast pork belly with amazing roasted broccoli and courgettes fried in butter. Omg it was delish.

Cherrypi Tue 06-Aug-13 19:01:18

Ooh that roasted broccoli sounds good. Might try that.

Vinividivino Tue 06-Aug-13 19:02:02

Had left mince I needed to use up for dinner tonight and I found this scrum-diddly-umptious recipe. I could have eaten 6 but my belt only allowed room for one! Substituted shallots for the onions to de-carb further.

BIWI Tue 06-Aug-13 19:15:57

I hope you didn't use low fat cheese though!

daisychicken Tue 06-Aug-13 19:18:18

Some yummy recipes - thanks!

Bad day today... had a busy morning, lots of pain in my legs & hips & exhaustion plus then standing for nearly 10mins to get tickets for the dc to swim... for some unknown reason, the lady behind me with 4 kids plus a toddler in arms was stood right up against me.. I couldn't move and the toddler started kicking me angry she didn't tell him off or move away! By the time we got tickets & I went to the viewing gallery, I could barely walk and has just had enough.... so I got a piece of chocolate tiffin..... not sure it was worth it but it did keep me going till we got home...

Back on the wagon now(!)

loopyloou Tue 06-Aug-13 19:58:28

Sorry you're having s bad day Daisy. Not had a fab day myself, period pains from hell and headache, but had to work as we're understaffed.

For breakfast I had fried egg and mushrooms, for lunch tuna mayo with salad, for dinner bacon, fried egg, green beans, wilted spinach and a little cucumber. Snacks of 2 bags of pork scratchings (hormonal comfort eating, better than chocolate!) and a Babybel.

NewStartNewStory Tue 06-Aug-13 21:26:09

Sorry to hear you have had such a bad day pain wise Daisy they can be really draining. sad Hope you have a better day tomo.

dollywould Wed 07-Aug-13 00:17:07

Hello everyone. Sorry to have gone Missing in Action on the last thread. Daisy and Loopy I hope you have much better days tomorrow.

I've lagged too fat behind to give meal plans and am unsure how much I've lost, if anything (AF was due today and I always balloon, so I thought I'd leave it until the first day is over, when everything seems to go back to normal. That was TMI, wasn't it blush). But, I am amazed at how fantastic I feel: I've been burning the candle at both ends working and we've had no childcare this week - usually, I'd have been dead in the water and foul to my family but I feel fine. Tired at times but absolutely nothing like the fog I used to feel. It actually feels like quite a transformation - and a more important one in some ways than my weight loss (I've got 3-4 stone to shift, so it's not a minor thing. But still...)

Right now, I feel that this is a WOE I want to stick with for good - it seems to suit my body. And if I waver from that, could you all please refer me back to this post and remind me how I feel now. Because I've never had such a stressful work week/period before and felt this good.

<prays she doesn't get her comeuppance and fall into a Heston-style-super-sized cake tomorrow>

Alambil Wed 07-Aug-13 00:25:15

Another question in the middle of the night...!

Can I eat chicken drumsticks as snacks? or should I stick to other foods / no snacks this 2 weeks?

Ruprekt Wed 07-Aug-13 00:35:07

Yes you can eat drumsticks esp the skin!

Alambil Wed 07-Aug-13 00:40:01

thank you smile

BerylStreep Wed 07-Aug-13 08:49:41

Have just foundthethread after being away for the weekend! Lots of compromising done, such as eating the ham out of ham sandwiches etc.

Went in a epic 32 mile cycle through very hilly countryside!

Have to go to work, but will catch up later.

CrabbyBigBottom Wed 07-Aug-13 08:53:44

Daisy sorry to hear you've been in so much pain. Why didn't you tell that horrible inconsiderate woman that her child was hurting you?! angry

Black great news about college. smile It'll be a whole new chapter in your life!

Feeling a bit meh here, need a good kick up the arse I think. I haven't so fallen off the wagon (as DP pointed out) as 'set fire to it at the side of the road!' blush grin Two nights of cassoulet and wine (Mon and Tues are supposed to be our dry days) and yesterday I had filled pasta for lunch because it was there and I was hungry. I've got a bloated tummy, muscle aches and painful ulcers on my tongue. I need to reboot my system!

BIWI where's your big stick? If you can't be arsed to beat me with it then pass it over and I'll self-flaggelate. sad

BIWI Wed 07-Aug-13 08:54:34

Lewis - the mantra, especially at this early stage, is IF YOU'RE HUNGRY, THEN EAT! Obviously you mustn't eat carby things. Chicken drumsticks, with lovely crispy skin, would make a perfect snack.

The key thing in the first couple of weeks is to get your head around the whole thing, get through any carb withdrawal symptoms whilst making sure that you're not hungry.

You honestly don't have to worry about portion sizes, as long as you're sticking to the rules and making sure that the vast majority of your carbs are coming from vegetables and salad.

Also, if you keep finding that you're hungry, it's an indication that you may not be eating enough fat.

How are you finding it/feeling so far?

CrabbyBigBottom Wed 07-Aug-13 08:55:11

Beryl 32 miles! That is, as DD would say, EPIC!! smile

BIWI Wed 07-Aug-13 08:56:25

Oh dear Crabby - it's a good job my big stick is having a summer holiday!

Mind you, sounds like your DH is doing a good job in its absence grin

Just don't do it to yourself. Not only is there no point from a weight point of view, why do it if it's making you feel so bad?

Welcome back, Beryl - sounds like your compromises were good ones. Hope you had a good time.

BIWI Wed 07-Aug-13 08:58:37

I start back at the gym with a new personal trainer tomorrow. He seems very nice (was recommended by my now ex-trainer), but has said that we will start with some measurements. Eeek! I am now forced to confront things, and he will be weighing me too, so I really do have to make sure I'm properly on the wagon.

No bad thing, though - perhaps I will finally get shot of the last half stone.

IBO Wed 07-Aug-13 09:20:43


This is Eglute. I have changed my name which means Inner beauty is Overrated smile

B full fat Greek yogurt with a bit of salt and olive oil
L Smoked mackerel with mayo and cucumber
D mashed swede with fried cabbage and 1.5 glass of wine..
S few walnuts and 3L of water

It is my PMS.. I feel like carby foods. I hope I will manage to keep myself away from them..

Waves to everyone from Italy! I have mostly been very good so far - one small handful of pretzels and one panne cotta with strawberries in a restaurant, but everything else has been bootcamp approved! I am finding it so easy to just eat this way!

BIWI Wed 07-Aug-13 09:27:24

IBO - it doesn't look like you're eating very much there. Both in terms of quantity and in terms of fat. Be very, very careful - you won't lose weight any quicker, and you risk making yourself hungry. And if you're approaching your period and you know you are at risk of cravings, you are even more likely to give into them as you will be more hungry!

MrsHP - well done! Hope you're having a lovely time. envy

IBO Wed 07-Aug-13 09:31:59

MRS - well done.. panne cotta with strawberries sound soooooo tempting..

BIWI - my portions are not small.. I am not very hungry in the morning but for lunch I had 2 large mackerels with generous table spoon of mayo and half cucumber and for dinner I had seconds.. And I fried my dinner in a lot of butter and olive oil.. I think I couldn’t eat any more of fatter.. Does it sound ok?

BIWI Wed 07-Aug-13 09:34:43

OK - glad to hear your portion sizes aren't tiny but there is so little fat in veg - why are you not eating more meat/fish?

IBO Wed 07-Aug-13 09:43:29

I am not a big meat eater. I just feel like veg. I didn’t plan on having any meat today again. I had yogurt for breakfast and will have tuna salad for lunch and I thought about cauliflower cheese for dinner..

I would not call myself vegetarian as sometimes I do eat meat and I do like it but somehow my body is not asking for a lot of meat.. or fish..or eggs.

BIWI Wed 07-Aug-13 09:56:17

OK - but just bear in mind that the more veg you're eating, the more carbs you are eating, and the less fat you are eating.

It's obviously good to get your carbs from veg, though!

Just keep an eye out for those cravings though.

IBO Wed 07-Aug-13 09:58:15

BIWI flowers
Thanks for looking after me

BIWI Wed 07-Aug-13 11:21:02


my pleasure!

BeenieBaby Wed 07-Aug-13 15:29:21

Bloody heck. What is with the damn carb cravings?!? I ha toast over the weekend as I was ill and since then I've been having terrible cravings! It's like starting boot camp all over again!

BIWI Wed 07-Aug-13 15:39:35

Just shows the hold that carbs can have over us, doesn't it!

Negroni Wed 07-Aug-13 15:55:15

I know Beenie it is the same for me - it isn't so bad breaking the WOE once it is the terrible repercussions! If I have a planned break, like a meal out then I am usually v sensible then and eat carbs in moderation, e.g. one pudding but then it opens the floodgate and the next day all I fancy are a pack of monster munch and white toast. Carb cravings are evil!

ah yes carbs beget carbs <biblical>

Negroni Wed 07-Aug-13 16:13:00

Willie grin !

CJCregg Wed 07-Aug-13 16:52:50

I really, really miss toast sad

I'm doing ok, I think. Today I've had Total yoghurt + strawberries for breakfast (with a bit of cream) and I was out for lunch so had a Pret Chicken Salad, which was 7g of carbs and was bloody delicious.

I then had a stressful afternoon and have comfort eaten 3 squares of Lindt 95% chocolate. It made me happy grin

Weight is still stalled. confused

BIWI Wed 07-Aug-13 16:55:14

Read your second and third sentences. Then read your fourth ... grin

Knock the strawberries on the head.

... as well as the chocolate!

CJCregg Wed 07-Aug-13 17:04:36

I know, I shouldn't have had the chocolate! But I really needed a pick-me-up.

So I should ditch any fruit, and the yoghurt/other dairy? If I do this, and lose the weight, will it come back on as and when I reintroduce, say, a bit of yoghurt?

Also, it is possible to have too many vegetables because of their carb content? Should I just stick primarily to meat/fish and fat? For instance, the other night I had salmon and loads of roasted vegetables - delicious, but so good I probably ate more vegetables than I needed ...

NigellasGuest Wed 07-Aug-13 17:17:34

wow! I have managed finally to lose 5lbs - but it has taken me about 4 weeks and I still look fat.

Negroni Wed 07-Aug-13 17:31:07

Well done NigellasGuest ! 5 lbs in 4 weeks is not slow. I have been bobbing up and down for the last 5 or so weeks so I would consider it a success. Onwards and downwards! What I really want to know, though, is have you ever actually been Nigella's guest??

NigellasGuest Wed 07-Aug-13 17:41:08

No but I was always curious about the people in the background at the end of her programmes, tucking into her delicious food and enjoying her hospitality, hence my name!

Negroni Wed 07-Aug-13 17:59:27

Oh me too! DP was at college with Nigella's younger sister and on occasion has recognised her as one of the guests. But apart from family, who are all the others?!

BIWI Wed 07-Aug-13 18:24:29


I know, I shouldn't have had the chocolate! But I really needed a pick-me-up.

Look - you need to address this. You're using food as an emotional crutch. You don't need chocolate. You wanted it. If you keep eating it, stands to reason it will get in the way of weight loss

So I should ditch any fruit, and the yoghurt/other dairy? If I do this, and lose the weight, will it come back on as and when I reintroduce, say, a bit of yoghurt?

If you're doing Bootcamp, then yes - ditch the fruit. If you're stalling, then consider giving up dairy for a few days and see what happens.

Also, it is possible to have too many vegetables because of their carb content? Should I just stick primarily to meat/fish and fat? For instance, the other night I had salmon and loads of roasted vegetables - delicious, but so good I probably ate more vegetables than I needed ...

Well yes of course it's possible to have too many vegetables and therefore too much carbohydrate! What veg did you have? Do you have any idea of how many carbs? Although Bootcamp isn't about weighing/counting, it might help you to have a better idea re quantities/amounts of carbs. Definitely don't just eat meat/fish though. I'm more concerned, though, that you're saying you ate more veg than you needed - do you have an issue with portion sizes?

Negroni Wed 07-Aug-13 18:42:46

BIWI good luck with the new personal trainer tomorrow...and with the last half stone, if you need to lose it. Maybe he will say your measurements are perfect as they are?!

Delurk ing to share my happy news that I'm ten pounds down since 9 July smile

StuntNun Wed 07-Aug-13 19:35:32

High fives Trucks! Good work. Are you seeing much of a difference in the way your clothes fit?

B: Greek yoghurt
L: sausages (leftover) and fried mushrooms (twas supposed to be smoked salmon and salad but my DSs ate the lot)
D: more sausages (hmm DS2 insisted but then he had smoked salmon for lunch), Savoy cabbage and carrot boiled then butter and cream added

Keep away from me with your big stick BIWI, the carrots were lurking in the fridge and needed to be used up!

loopyloou Wed 07-Aug-13 19:42:56

Well done Trucks and good luck with the personal trainer BIWI.

Today I had

Breakfast, bacon and eggs
Lunch, tuna mayo with salad
Dinner, chicken curry
Snack, pork scratchings and a Babybel

Yes. My clothes are too big ;)
I'm being hardcore: shred and swim most days and fast 1-2 days a week (no breakfast, small salad then simple supper coming in under 500-600 calories). Rest of time it's Bootcamp light (am BF).

CJCregg Wed 07-Aug-13 19:49:50

BIWI - I do use food as a crutch sometimes. Don't we all? I know it's not good, but I don't drink, or smoke, and I have very little to fall back on when I'm feeling a bit low or stressed. I haven't given in to temptation for nearly a month, but today I just cracked because it's been a tough day. Instead of eating cake or bread, I had a couple of bits of 95% chocolate. And then I stopped. I'm trying to be good grin

I will ditch the fruit, and cut back on the dairy (except butter, right?). I really want this to work.

I'm finding it really hard to work out what's ok and what's not. Years of dieting have instilled in me the belief that vegetables are 'good', and supposedly I don't need to weigh and measure and count. Frankly, I'm fed up with that. I had some peppers, aubergines, courgettes and mushrooms, with some fish. I just don't know what's the 'right' amount - when you're looking at some people's lists you tell them there aren't enough vegetables, but what is the optimum amount, if there is one? I just don't seem to be able to get my head around finding the right balance.

I don't think I have an issue with portion sizes. I'm just feeling bored and deprived. Sorry, have had a shitty day. Maybe I'm hormonal.

BIWI Wed 07-Aug-13 20:11:43

Aww - sorry you've had a shitty day flowers

Vegetables are good - but you do need to be aware of the amount of carbs that they contain. It was you saying that you thought you'd had too much which concerned me! The veg you have had sounds fine.

And, being truthful, 95% dark chocolate isn't really that bad. But it's the emotional eating that is more of an issue. You are right - we probably all do it to some degree. If it's not food, then it's alcohol! Thing is, it's often short-term pleasure that leads to longer-term pain.

Why are you feeling deprived? What would you like to be eating?

And why are you bored?

BIWI Wed 07-Aug-13 20:12:55

Have you had a look at the Ubercamp menus? They might help give you some inspiration/guidance re menus - and they are all dairy-free. (They're on the spreadsheet)

NigellasGuest Wed 07-Aug-13 20:14:03

how many carbs in a big glass of Prosecco anyone?

cj there isn't a 'right' amount of veg. I tend to have salad (lettuce/leaves) as you need a lot to get too many carbs from them and we have one other veg at dinner some/most nights (eg courgettes we have three between two, green beans small pack between two, leeks we have three between two, asparagus one small pack between two etc). We do have larger portions of meat/fish in the early days and anything left over we can have for lunch the next day. This means we don't get hungry. Re the emotional eating I am getting better at realising that if I don't comfort eat, the next day I feel much better and virtuous which in the long run makes things seem better!!! It is hard, but small steps have got me there...

Lighthousekeeping Wed 07-Aug-13 20:19:27

You read my mind. I'm back on nights tomorrow and I feel I need a glass of something white and dry.

Renovatinghouse Wed 07-Aug-13 20:19:48

I weighed myself today and have lost 2 kg in the last week and a half. I can feel my clothes less tight but still have so much to lose. But I tell myself, just do the diet today and tomorrow will be another day : )

Anyway, just wanted to share.

Renovatinghouse Wed 07-Aug-13 20:21:16

And I keep thinking of my pretty dress size 12 that I want to wear in December. Maybe that's too optimistic but it keeps me going. Thank you for the support!

Renovatinghouse Wed 07-Aug-13 20:22:48

Lighthousekeeping: I am also craving Prosecco! I bought two bottles to have in the house, "just in case".

NigellasGuest Wed 07-Aug-13 20:28:14

it's on offer in Waitrose atm!

Renovatinghouse Wed 07-Aug-13 20:52:44

I know! I ordered my bottles today as I could not resist the offer.

CrabbyBigBottom Wed 07-Aug-13 23:54:18

Thanks BIWI and hope it goes well with the personal trainer tomorrow. You're a braver woman than I!

Well done on your losses Nigella, Trucks and Renovating!

Sorry you've had a crappy day CJ.

MrsHP enjoy Italy I am envy!

grin Willie at carbs beget carbs. so very true.

Bleaugh meh day here with maaahooooosive carb cravings. I resisted though.
B/L - mozzarella, tomatoes, parma ham, olive oil.
D - home made pesto with courgette pasta, mushrooms and tomatoes.
P - raspberries and blackcurrants with clotted cream.
2 tea, no wine, not quite enough water.

Alambil Thu 08-Aug-13 00:55:29

I can't do it - I can NOT drink 5 LITRES of water a day....

I am drowning!

BlackAffronted Thu 08-Aug-13 07:56:17

Lewis, I struggled with the 5 litres to start with too, but now it isnt hard! I keep a litre bottle in the fridge, because I can drink it better cold, and try to finish one bottle every 2 hours - sounds easier when broken down like that smile

BIWI Thu 08-Aug-13 08:14:42

You can, Lewis. You have to change your mindset about these things.

However, I appreciate that it seems an awful lot to start to knock back from a standing start!

Why not build it up gradually? Start with 3 litres, perhaps. That's 1.5 large bottles. Honestly, you will find it easy to do once you get into it.

I don't know what your job is, but if you're at a desk, make sure that you always have a glass full of water in front of you.

And substitute one cup of tea/coffee/fizzy drink for water.

I can't manage without my coffee first thing in the morning, but instead of having a second one, I have water instead. That also means that the water I'm drinking is spread out across the day - I don't have to suddenly gulp down a litre at a time!

BIWI Thu 08-Aug-13 08:15:45

The water is important as it helps to flush the ketones out of your body, and thus the fat.

It stops you feeling hungry.

It makes your skin look great.

There are no calories or carbs in it either, so it's good stuff for free!

BIWI Thu 08-Aug-13 08:18:09

This piece may help you (and others) to get the water down!

rubyrubyruby Thu 08-Aug-13 08:23:32

I'm just checking back as I joined this ages ago and then disappeared.

I only did this for a few weeks to shed a few pounds before my holiday. That's it really smile - just didn't want you to think I'd fallen off the wagon! <<delusional that anyone actually missed me anyway>>

Keep up the good work BIWI x

BIWI Thu 08-Aug-13 08:25:11

ruby! Of course we missed you! <crosses fingers>

OhCobblers Thu 08-Aug-13 08:50:10

Haven't had a chance to read the new thread yet but returned from hols on tues. it was buffet all the time which I thought would be a nightmare but had cooked breakfast very morning or just some scrambled eggs with a few cheese slices. Lunch was generally cold meats or hot meats with a salad. Dinner the same. Finding green veg was hard but managed to eat courgette, aubergine, small amount of carrot, grilled onions (bad I know but I love them and WAS on holiday!). Ate a ton of lettuce and found olives too!

Allowed myself a dessert on 2 days but drank alcohol every day which frankly was to be expected but not in the volume that I thought. However drinking at least 2 litres of water every day didn't happen, probably only a litre. I've come back 3lbs heavier which I don't think is bad and it helped that before I left I broke through my "sticking weight" barrier so I know to keep going and get back on the wagon again!

StuntNun Thu 08-Aug-13 08:55:51

Lewis I keep a pint glass by the kitchen sink and every time I go near the sink I drink half of it then refill it to the top (I don't like really cold water). I don't count up how much water I drink in a day but if I don't get enough then I get very thirsty at night or the next morning. Last night I drank two pints not long before bedtime - I was up three times in the night for the loo. hmm Serves me right for not getting enough during the day. Usually if I'm out I take a 500 ml bottle of tap water with me but I forgot yesterday.

I just had the most lush breakfast of Greek yoghurt, cream and blackberries. Omg it was amazing.

I need to go and get the slow cooker going, we're having Crabby's lamb curry for dinner today. I have the lamb shanks marinating and the spices all measured out so I just need to chop shallots and assemble.

OhCobblers Thu 08-Aug-13 08:57:03

Oh and my biggest breakthrough with eating like is is that I did not snack once! A whole week of eating 3 meals a day and no snacks as I didn't want them or think about them!!!

BeenieBaby Thu 08-Aug-13 09:23:46

cj I get the emotional eating problem. I'm the same. In fact this woe is slightly depressing as I miss the 'reward' that food used to give me. But I do feel healthier and Ivan see a huge difference in my body shape. The scales haven't shifted much in the past week (week 3 now) but my thighs seem to be melting away! As for the chocolate, I had unlimited quantities of 95% choc and it didn't stop me losing 2kg! <now runs and hides from biwi>

well done cobblers!

re emotional eating, i am trying really hard to work on this. it's difficult as people around you will often sabotage this (everything seems very geared towards rewarding/comforting/consoling with food)

i find meal planning helps, as if one or other of us has had a bad day i just stick to the meal plan, which helps avoid the 'i don't know what to cook and i feel crap so i'm going to get a takeaway' feeling

also not keeping the 'comfort' type stuff in the house (though god knows i can still go out of my way to get hold of it)

and trying to find other things to reward/comfort (this can be tricky without spending lots of money, and also tricky if you have limited time or are tied to the house with small children). e.g. exercise, while hard to get the motivation to get going, is a massive stress reliever (can just be going for a walk, but i realise this is difficult if you have children to look after). dp and i might play a few games of cards (this helps me switch off from worrying because i am hugely competitive and give the game my full attention!). i do lots of knitting, which keeps my hands busy and uses my brain, and you want to keep your hands clean so you're less inclined to seek out snacks.

CJCregg Thu 08-Aug-13 09:29:49

I am utterly confused

I seem to have lost three pounds since yesterday. In spite of the chocolate confused and the dairy hmm

I am desperately racking my brains to think of what I did differently. I drank lots of water. That's all. Everything else was the same. I had big ol' fatty pork chops for dinner, with salad.

It's true, though, that you don't feel the need to snack on this WOE. I think maybe my problem has been that I haven't been particularly hungry so I've occasionally skipped meals or had not very much. Oh, I don't know ... but who cares?! I've lost three pounds grin

well done grin!

you didn't have that much chocolate, and with these things i think it's often to do with what you do regularly rather than the one-off. e.g. if you're eating half a bar of 90% a day every day it will have more of an effect on your weight loss than a few squares as a one-off. although obviously you would be trying to avoid the chocolate the majority of the time, and an awareness of what causes you to feel like you need to eat it is useful, as a one-off you should enjoy it mindfully and not worry about it too much

likewise with the dairy, you might have a dairy-heavy day every now and then, but that's fine as long as you aren't sensitive to it

of course, don't assume that the fact that you saw a big loss following chocolate and high dairy means that they caused it - you drank lots of water which would have helped, as well as a decent fat intake, and you may have been due a whoosh anyway, so don't think that chocolate and cream are the secret to weight loss grin <i wish>

IBO Thu 08-Aug-13 09:44:58

Morning all

Well done losers!!! I love reading success stories as I find it very inspiring.

I got confused about veg intake. There's no way I could eat less veg..I am sticking to all food that has less than 3g of carbs per 100g so I hope it is ok.

I jumped on scales this morning which was a mistake.. I have put few pounds back.. Well good thing is I weight still less than I did almost 3 weeks ago smile

B Greek yogurt + olive oil - weirdly I love the taste.. smile
L Tuna with few walnuts, mayo and spinach
D Swede mash and low carb sausages. I made it so fatty I almost felt sick. I am still getting used to eating fatty food

A lot of water and one square of 85% chocolate which melted in my mouth..

I thought of maybe doing Ubercamp. I thought maybe somebody would like to join me?

Well done on the loss. I think maybe the water was the key thing - that makes the difference for me!

lewis you can do this, but only if you want to and if you believe you can. Your posts read to me almost like you don't want it to work if that makes sense. I think I know how you feel, like it is such a big thing to do, and that it goes against what we've all been told about diet for years. You can do this and we are all here to help you. Like BIWI says with the water, try for a smaller amount first and build it up, I find the more I drink, the more I want and it gets easier to drink a lot, I don't always make my quota every day, but do most days. Make a big jug and put some cup up cucumber in it, if you like a different taste maybe? Remember, you CAN do this and we will all help you, but you have to believe it and give it a go - promise yourself to go for it for two weeks and then see how you feel? It gets easier and easier the longer you do it as the more 'usual it becomes...

CrabbyBigBottom Thu 08-Aug-13 09:54:37

Yay Stunt let me know how it goes. smile

I remember you ruby, welcome back. Are you still bootcamping?

CJ that 3lbs is obviously the compensation for your crappy day. wink

Lewis I'm reading that differently from everyone else I think - do you mean you are now compelled to drink 5 litres every day? Good for you if so, I'm not sure I could manage that much!

Good advice on the water though, I need to up my intake again.

Well done on your restraint on hols Cobblers 3lbs on will be easypeasy to shift.

I'm wondering what to do tomorrow; I have three friends coming for lunch and I don't know what to make. One is a very fussy eater and will probably just bring a sandwich and one is a veggie, iirc.

Alambil Thu 08-Aug-13 10:23:38

I meant I'm struggling to drink that much. I haven't drunk naked water in any quantity since a young child! it is a hard habit to get in to lol

I've got minted lamb and veg for tonight.

Going for a picnic with ds and his mate later so will stick to eggs and meat

I do want to do this but have had a very strange relationship with food and have had for 15 years - it's taking time to sort my brain!

I will do it though.

I said no to a ice cream van 99 on Tuesday when the whole family had one (parents, sister, son and nephew) on a day out so the will is there. It's just a bit of a daunting change! blush

Lighthousekeeping Thu 08-Aug-13 10:34:53

I had two glasses of white wine last night sad it's my treat though. I'm starting four nights tonight. It's a colleagues last shift. I'm usually the one to get the PapaJohns in! Not this time.

BIWI Thu 08-Aug-13 10:38:07

It is, Lewis, and it goes against everything we have been told over the last 30 years.

I think also that, for a lot of us, it makes a real change to see food as an allowable pleasure, rather than a sinful indulgence (which actually means that we see food as something bad or wicked).

If you've been struggling to lose weight and have tried various diets over the years, which I suspect all if not most of us have, then it's very hard to see food as our saviour rather than food as our enemy.

I know that might sound strange - but once you fully appreciate the lovely food that you can eat, and how eating lovely, full-fat food can curb your appetite, you will see what I mean!

Lighthousekeeping Thu 08-Aug-13 10:44:25

What about cholesterol though? Has anyone had theirs checked recently?

BIWI Thu 08-Aug-13 10:52:24

What about cholesterol, Lighthousekeeping? What is your concern?

Lighthousekeeping Thu 08-Aug-13 10:55:25

Well I get mine done yearly and the last time it was going up and the gp specifically told me to cut down or the dairies and meat. Does that mean I should really be doing this kind of diet?

IBO Thu 08-Aug-13 11:01:00

I will have mine check at the end of August. My colesterol level was perfect when I had it last checked in Spring.

BIWI Thu 08-Aug-13 11:07:37

Here's an interesting piece on cholesterol by Zoe Harcombe

You might also like to read Dr Malcolm Kendrick's book "The Great Cholesterol Con" here's a bit from his blog

BIWI Thu 08-Aug-13 11:17:32

And a more explanatory one from Gary Taubes

One point to make here - if these articles don't - is just how much money is invested in persuading us all to take statins ...

Negroni Thu 08-Aug-13 11:27:00

Lewis I too struggle with water drinking- I should be drinking 3 litres a day. Somehow 2 seems manageable but 3 seems a lot. 5 litres def seems a lot too but as others say I think the trick is just to keep drinking all day, so you are not faced with having to down 2l just before bed.

But I find it works if I can set mini targets to ensure I am drinking throughout the day. I tend to use a 250ml glass and have the mini target that I have to drink 500ml before I leave the house to take DD1 to school/ holiday activity. Then when I get back I have to relatively quickly drink another 2 glasses ie one immediately and one after 30 mins or so. This means by 10.45, or so, I have done a litre. I then tend to set a 2 glass target for before lunch and then 2 glasses after lunch. Then 2 before dinner and 2 before bed.

I think, if you did something similar but with 3 glasses every time, you would get to 4.5 litres... which is almost there!

I do find it helps with the weight loss though. I have to stop now as I have turned into a water bore!

IBO Thu 08-Aug-13 11:34:29

5L sounds a lot

I have to drink 3 L and I do not struggle at all. I try and drink my 3 L at work so I do not have to drink any water before bed time I would really hate to be waking up for a wee.

I usually have a pint of water on my desk and keep sipping it. And I have one or half a glass immediately before re-filling my pint. I also have a glass of water when I wake up.
You get used to drinking water and I find it I am thirsty if I stop drinking. it keeps you full and it is soooo good for your skin smile

if you drink herbal tea it alsso counts smile

biwi might have posted this before, i'm not sure - it's called 'why low carbing is harder the second time around though actually it's not really about that - it's more about analysing what you have control over and what you don't with respect to your eating

Renovatinghouse Thu 08-Aug-13 12:47:17

I also have a hard time drinking water. Before starting low carb I drank almost nothing. But I find it easier to drink very cold water, so fill a jug with lots of ice and water and can go through it much faster. Do not like it room temperature.

What herbal teas don't have carbs?

I also have high cholesterol but I hope that by losing weight it will go back to normal. It has happened to me before.

Negroni Thu 08-Aug-13 12:50:50

Thanks Willie that is a great article!

BIWI Thu 08-Aug-13 12:59:59

Willie - I have never read that post before, but it's brilliant. In fact, I'm going to cut and paste it

BIWI Thu 08-Aug-13 13:02:38

The psychology of eating - by Michael R Eades from this blog

"I can’t begin to count the number of people whom I have seen in my office who have fallen off the wagon and who told me that they just couldn’t stick with their low-carb diet for any number of reasons.

A typical conversations goes something like this:

MRE: (In this drama, MRE is yours truly, the long suffering physician) So, Mrs. X, I see that you gained a little weight this week. What happened? Is there a problem we need to go over?

Mrs. X: Oh, no, not really. I had to put my mother in the hospital this week, and I just couldn’t diet with all that going on.

Other answers could be: My kids all came home from summer camp, and I just couldn’t stick to it with all that going on. Or my husband lost his job, and I couldn’t low-carb with that going on. Or I’m going through a divorce. Or … You get the picture.

These excuses bring to mind an absolutely wonderful book that I highly recommend, The Happiness Hypothesis. It was written by Jonathon Haidt, an associate professor of psychology at the University happiness hypothesis Why low carb is harder the second time around, part IIof Virginia and is filled with interesting perspectives on happiness, what it takes to be happy and even the scientific basis of happiness. The cover of the book has a sort of blurred photo taken from underwater of what appears to be an elephant with a rider on its back, which is central to Dr. Haidt’s thesis.

Dr. Haidt describes our minds and bodies (and by bodies he means not just our corporeal bodies but the working mechanisms of our bodies) as being akin to a rider on the back of an elephant. Our conscious, thinking minds he casts in the role of the rider, and the rest of us as the elephant. The rider can control the elephant as long as the elephant wants to be controlled. And if the elephant is okay with being steered and directed, then to all appearances, the rider is in control. But, if the elephant has other ideas, the rider basically just goes along for the ride.

Every time I think of this image, I’m taken back to our youngest kid’s dorm room in college where he played a bit of video he had taped from one of those Fox (I think it was Fox) shows from years ago called When Good Pets Go Bad. It was a video of a woman who, along with her three young children, went for a ride on the back of an elephant. The elephant was a part of some sort of performance and had been placidly giving rides to all comers. Once this particular family got aboard, the elephant decided it had put up with enough nonsense and went rogue. It stormed out raising hell and tearing up everything in site with the poor mother and her kids hanging on for their lives. The family ended up unharmed after the rampage, but the elephant had to be destroyed. Our kid loved the video showing all the people running in horror from this irate elephant and would play it in frame by frame mode so that he could see the looks of terror on all the faces of all those trying to flee. MD and I, being the attentive parents that we are, must have watched this video a dozen times as he pointed out all the nuances that he loved so much, so it is firmly etched in my mind.

This rogue elephant scenario is what Dr. Haidt thinks happens to us from time to time. Our rider (the conscious part of us) wants us to do something, but the elephant part of us doesn’t want to, and so the rider just hangs on for the ride while the elephant goes wherever it wants to go. We can put this in dieting terms. Our rider decides that the elephant needs to go on a diet. As long as the elephant is up for it, the diet hums along. But if the elephant has other ideas, the rider becomes an ornament. If things are going well, the rider has the appearance of control; if things aren’t going well, i.e., we had to put Mom in the hospital, then the elephant takes over. And the rider accepts it. He says, hey, I couldn’t control this beast because we had to put Mom in the hospital, and you know how he gets when we have to put Mom in the hospital. He wants to eat, and I, the rider, have to go along with him.

Yale psychologist Paul Bloom presents another way of looking at this situation in an enlightening article in the November 2008 issue of The Atlantic. He puts forward the idea that we all have multiple selves that we’re constantly dealing with, arguing with and trying to fool.

Let’s say that we’ve dined large late at night and are headed for bed. As we crawl into the sack with belly distended from a carb overindulgence and lie flat, we start getting the ol’ acid reflux feeling. We sit up, burp, drink some water, rub our chest and grab for the Tums. The self that is suffering says, ‘That’s it, I’m dieting tomorrow. I can’t stand feeling like this, not for one more night.’ The next morning the self that wakes up is a different person who isn’t experiencing reflux, doesn’t have a distended belly and is hungry. And, by God, hungry for some waffles, at that. The feel-good morning self may not abide by the rules laid down by the refluxing self the night before.

Bloom relates a story told by the Nobel laureate economist Thomas Schelling about his own multiple selves:

As a boy I saw a movie about Admiral Byrd’s Antarctic expedition and was impressed that as a boy he had gone outdoors in shirtsleeves to toughen himself against the cold. I resolved to go to bed at night with one blanket too few. That decision to go to bed minus one blanket was made by a warm boy; another boy awoke cold in the night, too cold to retrieve the blanket … and resolving to restore it tomorrow. The next bedtime it was the warm boy again, dreaming of Antarctica, who got to make the decision, and he always did it again.

Then Dr. Bloom goes on to tell his story of his own dual selves:

Late at night, when deciding not to bother setting up the coffee machine for the next morning, I sometimes think of the man who will wake up as a different person, and wonder, What did he ever do for me? When I get up and there’s no coffee ready, I curse the lazy bastard who shirked his duties the night before.

We are all like this. One of our selves makes a promise that another has to keep, or, more likely, try to weasel out of. One of ourselves gets us in a fix that one of our other selves has to get us out of. ‘What on earth was I thinking? How did that happen?’ our responsible self says when our fun-loving self does something incredibly stupid.

My responsible self says ‘No golf unless you get this project finished first.’ As the day wears on and my golf-addict self realizes that there is still enough light to get in at least 9, and it says ‘Hey, I’m almost finished, I’ll do it when I get home.’ When I get home, my tired self who wants to grab a glass of Jameson and kick back says, “Geez, why didn’t I just finish this job instead of playing golf? I’m a member of a golf club, for God’s sake; I can play any time, so why today when I had all this hanging over my head?’

And that’s the problem with all these selves. At least all my selves, and, I suspect, most people’s selves. These selves can outwit one another, and if the selves aren’t careful or if there isn’t a father-figure, responsible self towering above the others, not much gets done.

These two authors astutely identify the ways we as humans tend to deal with life. And since the part of life were talking about in this post is diet, these observations apply.

Our rider says diet, our elephant, in the throes of hunger, says screw that, I’m out of here. And the rider goes along for the ride.

Or our one comfortably-fed self gets us into a diet that our other hungry or our stressed-out self wants no part of and so bolts.

If you believe these two psychologists, we are pretty much doomed to stay overweight, insulin resistant, diabetic, etc. because when it comes right down to it, we don’t really have any control. What can we do as the rider of a runaway elephant? What can we do if our good self makes the deal but the other self won’t keep it?

If you think these ways of looking at dieting are outlandish, just tell me how many times you’ve heard (or even said) these words about a specific food (high in carbs, usually): I just couldn’t help it. I couldn’t resist. I gave in to the cravings. I couldn’t control myself.

Go back through the comments of the last couple of posts and read how many people wrote how they couldn’t deal with carb cravings. Probably the most common excuse I heard for dietary indiscretion from my patients was that they just couldn’t control their diet when under some stressful situation. The cravings got the better of them.

It sounds reasonable. Psychologists write about elephants and riders and multiple selves fighting with one another because that’s how most people tend to react. But it doesn’t have to be that way. We are not that helpless.

Back in the early 1980s a psychiatrist, William Glasser, M.D., wrote a book titled Take Effective Control of Your Life take effective control 1 Why low carb is harder the second time around, part IIthat I read at the time and thought to be one of the more insightful books I had ever read. The paperback version of that same book appeared a couple of years later under the title Control Theory. Both editions are now out of print but pre-owned copies can be had for pennies from Amazon. This is a book well worth reading. And not just for dietary help.

Dr. Glasser has gone on to bigger and better things and has become famous for an an entire school of psychiatric therapy. I’ve read most of his books, and profited from them all, but the one mentioned above is a true gem. I don’t understand why it still isn’t in print.

The insight that Dr. Glasser had and that I recognized in myself and in my patients as soon as I read his book was that people spend all their time worrying and stressing about control theory Why low carb is harder the second time around, part IIthings they can’t control and end up ceding control over the things that they can control completely.

Going back to our example at the start of this post, my patient who put her mother in the hospital didn’t have any real control over any part of what was happening. She couldn’t control her mother’s disease, she couldn’t really control much of anything that went on in the hospital. But she worried constantly about these things she couldn’t control and abandoned her diet, over which she had total, 100 percent control.

People do this all the time. One of the very few things we have complete control over is what we put in our mouths. Unless someone hogs us down, pries open our jaws and force feeds us, we have total and complete control of our eating. Yet how many times have we heard people say (or have said ourselves), I just couldn’t do the diet with all this going on. I lost all control.

Dr. Glasser understands about the rider and the elephant and the multiple warring selves, although he doesn’t call them such. And he has a game plan for dealing with them, which puts the control squarely in our hands.

He explains that all behavior has four components. He doesn’t explain these in dietary terms, but I will.

1. the physiological component
2. the feeling component
3. the thinking component
4. the doing component

We don’t have any control over the first two and only partial control over the third. But we have total control over the fourth, the doing component. Let’s look at how this all works with food.

Imagine you’re sitting in your office minding your own business when a co-worker comes in with a box of fresh, hot donuts, sticks the box in your face and says, ‘Have one.’ What happens?

First, your physiology kicks in. Your pancreas says, uh oh, here comes some sugar. Better get a little insulin cranked out to get ready for it. You get a spurt of insulin and your blood sugar starts to fall.

Then, as your blood sugar falls, you start to feel hungry. And your stomach starts to churn as it gets ready. This is the feeling component. And you have no control over this. It all happens and it is totally beyond your control.

Then you think about how good a donut would taste. And you imagine it. And you say to yourself, hey, it’s only one. What could it hurt? This is the thinking component, and you do have some control over it. But with the physiology and feeling components hard at work, it’s difficult not to think about the donuts. Difficult, but not impossible.

And all the above happens in just a few seconds.

Then you grab a donut and eat it. The doing component. You have complete control over this component. You choose to eat the donut. All the other components are ragging on you and you cave. And you say you had no control, but you really did. If someone had told you they were going to shoot you if you ate one of the donuts, you wouldn’t have eaten it. All the other three components (at least the first two) would have been acting the same, but you wouldn’t touch the donuts. You can control the doing component if you want to. Problem is the other three components gang up on you, trying to disable your will.

But, this can all the dealt with.

Dr. Glasser realized that the physiology to feeling to thinking to doing progression could be reversed. Since you have complete control over only the doing component, you’ve got to do something. And once you do, you can foil the progression. Because if you take different action, you can drive the progression the other way.

If you get up from your desk and say, No thanks, then leave your office and go involve yourself with something else all the components start to fall in line. Once you start doing something different, you start thinking about it, then your feelings of hunger go away and soon even your physiology falls into line. Your liver produces glucose to make up for that the little spurt of insulin knocked down, and soon you’re back to normal. And it doesn’t take all that long.

So, basically, we can be driven by a progression over which we have no control to abdicate the one thing we do have control over, our actual active doing. Or we can use our ability to do something to reverse control all the components that we don’t have direct control over.

Realizing that I had this ability to control the seemingly uncontrollable made a huge difference in my life years ago and continues to do so today. Knowing that I can control virtually any behavior, but especially my dietary behavior, by simply focusing my attention and effort onto a task or other activity has kept me on the straight and narrow multiple times when strong temptation fell in my path.

If the high-carb demon is goading you to go face down, telling you that you have uncontrollable cravings, just force yourself to go do something else. Soon the cravings will be gone. It takes a little practice, but it helps to repeat the mantra: I have 100 percent control over what goes in my mouth.

Take the advice of Dr. Glasser. Start worrying less over those things you can’t control and accept that you have no control over them. And take back control of the things you can. If you do so, you will be a much happier person. And a much thinner person."

BeenieBaby Thu 08-Aug-13 13:12:22

biwi thanks for that. It was just what I needed. thanks

BeenieBaby Thu 08-Aug-13 13:13:42

And willie! Hadn't read your post before I dived into Biwi's epic one

captainmummy Thu 08-Aug-13 13:20:45

Lewis - I have a pint of water before breakfast, one before lunch and one beore tea. I have 2 more throughout the day - tho I only need 2.5L. I keep a 1L jug in the fridge with mint leaves/orange peel/cucumber slices in. I also have small cups of water at work (mornings) and drink Rooibos (Redbush) tea all day; black, big mug (3/4pint! grin) so am probably nearer 4 litres.

Renovating - peppermint tea, Rooibos, green tea, liquorice tea - in fact i think all teas will be carb free? Until you add milk and sugar of course!
Liquorice tea and rooibos with vanilla is good for those sweet-cravings.

IBO Thu 08-Aug-13 13:23:54

Renovatinghouse - peppermint, ginger, camomile, fennel.. I think all teas are carb free smile

captainmummy Thu 08-Aug-13 13:27:49

Wow biwi - no wonder mumsnet went down for a bit there....grin

Good article. Rampaging elephant, that sounds like me!

IBO Thu 08-Aug-13 13:30:04

this article just proves one thing I always knew - everything is in our head.

Thanks for reminder flowers

NigellasGuest Thu 08-Aug-13 13:50:29

yes that was a great article, thanks willie!

Going to have a proper read of those later!

lewis sorry if I was telling what you already knew blush. High five on turning down the ice cream!

IBO Thu 08-Aug-13 14:11:41

I am meeting a friend for few drinks later tonight. Dry whitered wine is ok to drink isnt't? I do not like gin.. and vodka with slim tonick would taste bad I guess..

BIWI Thu 08-Aug-13 15:01:28

Vodka or golden rum, sparkling water/soda and a slice of lime is the best thing to drink as this will be carb-free. Gin and slimline would also be carb-free but does have artificial additives in it.

Wine has carbs in it - stick to dry wines as much as possible - so go easy.

Secondsop Thu 08-Aug-13 15:06:07

willie, biwi, amazing article. Thank you. I'm away for a few days for a break travelling around and visiting friends and have I'm afraid gone off piste, not everything I ate but enough, eg a few fries here, an ice cream there, a spoonful of quinoa, a slice of fried bread at breakfast that I'd normally just leave, a slice of fruit tart. I still feel in some kind of control and i know i'll be fine once back to normal life but I can really see how easily I can slip off the wagon.

Something that is inspiring me to try to STAY ON the wagon is how HUNGRY I was in the night the day that I had ice cream, quinoa and tart. It really shows how my body instantly processed the carbs and instead of then burning fat, demanded more carbs.

On another note, m&s at service stations have helped minimise the damage, with little sausages and chicken legs.

IBO Thu 08-Aug-13 15:07:50

I never had golden rum before..i will try it tonight then, thanks BIWI.. helpful like always flowers

BIWI Thu 08-Aug-13 15:12:14

This is my favourite

Have a good evening!

CrabbyBigBottom Thu 08-Aug-13 17:08:38

Quick question oh wise bootcampers... any ideas on how to make a teriyaki glaze (which contains sugar) without sugar or sweetener? I can't think how else to get that stickiness!

NigellasGuest Thu 08-Aug-13 17:30:56

BIWI have you seen all the delicious puddings underneath the pic of the rum!!!
Warning - don't scroll down after looking at the rum!

Negroni Thu 08-Aug-13 17:43:17

Meringue and Rum layer cake!

Nigella I am holding you to blame if I fall off the wagon into a plateful of that!

BlackAffronted Thu 08-Aug-13 17:48:49

Had this for dinner tonight - though I mostly had just crackling!

BIWI Thu 08-Aug-13 18:07:58


(Not bothered about puddings - the rum will be enough for me!)

NigellasGuest Thu 08-Aug-13 18:31:31

Deep breaths, Negroni!

What does rum actually taste like? is it an acquired taste? FWIW I can't stand whiskey - no idea if rum is similar? could I move from Prosecco to rum seamlessly?

NigellasGuest Thu 08-Aug-13 18:35:08

crabbybigbottoom I'm no expert but vegetables kind of caramelise when they are roasted - can you adapt that idea somehow?

BIWI Thu 08-Aug-13 19:06:34

No - rum is nothing like whisky. It's much mellower and a sweeter taste altogether.

loopyloou Thu 08-Aug-13 19:45:53

Today I had bacon and eggs for breakfast, egg mayo with salad for lunch and cottage pie made with swede with buttered cabbage or dinner, a snack of pork scratchings.

NigellasGuest Thu 08-Aug-13 20:02:13

IBO I am up for doing Uber camp with you!

StuntNun Thu 08-Aug-13 20:24:58

I'm four ounces away from my first target which was 66 kg by the end of August. Fingers crossed I'll be there by Monday. When is Bootcamp officially starting again? Is it September? It'll be nice having everyone Bootcamping together although I'm going to miss the dairy and berries and wine!

B: blackberries, Greek yogurt and cream
L: lamb burger and leftover cabbage/carrot with extra butter
D: lamb curry (delish and meltingly tender thanks to Crabby), spiced cauliflower (meh) and wilted spinach

The lamb curry would be wonderful with homemade nan bread. blush I foresee a planned cheat for the leftovers.

I'ven been mainly offline on holiday at the beach... had withdrawal symptoms from MNet!

I've mainly stuck to the WOE, sometimes took a packed lunch. Sometimes not. This only fell down one day in a place where nowhere did a take-out salad. I ended up buying a packet of smoked salmon, cherry tomatoes and strawberries and laughing at my posh and odd lunch.

Just had takeaway curry (cauli and spinach bhajees). Yum! One night in a restaurant I had a cheesy leek bake and ignored the fact that it contained potatoes too.

A friend on holiday asked me about this WOE and I realised I've been doing this since May. 3 months! Amazing. I'm very happy to not feel self-conscious about my weight this summer.

I'm also looking forward to just over a week's time when we go on a different week's holiday with my Mum. Unusually I haven't actually seen her since end of May so I'm hoping she will be impressed at the results. She thinks the whole basis of the diet is wrong. I hope to slightly convert her at least over the course of the holiday!!

BeenieBaby Thu 08-Aug-13 21:59:37

My inner elephant was asking for toast today... I'm very pleased to say I resisted! grin I went for a walk instead which really helped as I was getting really restless and kept thinking about food all afternoon... And I tried cauliflower rice for dinner which turned out to be surprisingly nice! I'm impressed by those considering uber camp- good luck!

Alambil Thu 08-Aug-13 22:43:16

ok I'm going in..... pressing "order" on my sainsburys...

I am going to town tomorrow to buy a water filter jug thingy and will make LOTs of ice; I too can't abide it warm, seeing as I have to get over my aversion to it!

Wish me luck!

Want to see my shopping list to check it first?

Alambil Thu 08-Aug-13 22:46:29

(I have been eating a low-ish carb diet this week, but needed to go shopping to get fat stuff!)

NewStartNewStory Thu 08-Aug-13 23:24:46

BBC2 has an interesting sounding program about to start. "The men who made us fat" Apparently it is about the evils of corn syrup this week, it is one I shall be catching up with on iplayer tomo. Need some sleep tonight.

CrabbyBigBottom Thu 08-Aug-13 23:25:36

Thanks for the suggestion Nigella. smile I ended up using pomegranate molasses. Too carby but hey ho.

Sorry Lewis, for some reason I was reading it as can't not drink. I read it about three times too! confused

Willie that article is great. Thanks for that.

B/L - courgette, tomatoes, mushrooms with pesto
S - greek yoghurt 'ice-cream'
D - teriyaki salmon on a bed of shredded savoy cabbage with ginger
P - berries and cream
2 tea, 2 wine, loads water

NewStartNewStory Thu 08-Aug-13 23:34:53

Ok less then 5mins in and it is slightly scary but addictive viewing. Already it has been described as a war between the food industry and being healthy...

CrabbyBigBottom Thu 08-Aug-13 23:49:27

New I watched the 'men who made us thin' one at 9pm which was reasonably interesting. I'm recording this one.

NewStartNewStory Thu 08-Aug-13 23:54:24

It is really interesting the way that the different views scientists vs industry are being presented. I think it has suitably scared my ass firmly back onto the wagon full time. wow.

StuntNun Fri 09-Aug-13 08:15:52

I didn't watch that Crabby but I'm guessing the take home message was 'eat less, exercise more, and whatever you do don't go on a fad diet'?

Lighthousekeeping Fri 09-Aug-13 08:47:48

Well last night was a leaving do at work. I evening refused my friends legendary pavlova I feel very saintly. I've been adding vanilla extract to the Greek yoghurt and I wondered if it would be ok to use other extracts like almond? It doesn't really give a clue what's in then sugar wise.

captainmummy Fri 09-Aug-13 08:48:01

I watched the 9oclock one about WW and slim-fast etc. The result was - these 'diets' don't work...if they did, there would be no diet-industry.!

was very interesting, although i didn't think the interveiwer had much backbone - he let the elderly Slim-fast guy off any really searching questions, and the Dukan guy - couldn't understand him. Would have been better to interview him in French with sub-titles.

IBO Fri 09-Aug-13 08:51:53

Good hangover Friday morning!

I had lovely evening last night. I started with dry wine but then had Mojito and Margarita and I am paying for it today with headache and guilt.. Other than that I had quite a good day..

B - 2 eggs with 2 chipolatas and 1 spring onion fried in butter
L - 2 table spoons of Greek yogurt with grated cucumber
D - 2 boiled eggs with 4 fried asparagus and mayo

NigellasGues - great!! I am excited about doing ubercamp. It is only 3 days so we can do it!

When bootcamp starts? I agree - it would be great if all of us did it..

Lewis good luck to you!
Beenie this is for you flowers for resisting and making clever choices!! Well done girl!
Lilly and for you flowers Well done!!

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 08:59:18

Lighthousekeeping - what brand of almond extract do you have/were you considering?

Lighthousekeeping Fri 09-Aug-13 09:04:06

Morrissons finest French Almond? They have other brands. The incrediants list rapseed oil and 5% almond oil.

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 09:04:19

Sainsbury's sell the Nielsen Massey brand, and according to their website, this is what's in it:

Alcohol (90%), Natural Oil of Bitter Almond, Water

Their own almond flavouring contains:

Propylene Glycol; Water, Flavouring.

Having Googled propylene glycol, I'd say go with the Nielsen Massey one! I can't see that you'd be adding many carbs, as I presume you'd only need a teaspoon or so?

Lighthousekeeping Fri 09-Aug-13 09:05:51

Less. Just a dash.

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 09:07:33

It'll be fine then, I'm sure. Sounds like an interesting idea! I have a chocolate extract which I've used, but it was a bit disappointing.

IBO Fri 09-Aug-13 09:09:25

I am looking at ubercamp plan.. I do not understand it! blush

How come there are 3 x Day 1, 2 and 3 menus. Does it mean Ubercamp is 9 days?

Pardon my hangover slow thinking..

NigellasGuest Fri 09-Aug-13 09:10:17

can I check please - if a recipe calls for 100g broccoli, for example, does this mean raw or cooked? carb contents for veg - these refer to raw?

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 09:10:33

No - there are three days only! Not quite sure what you mean?

I'll go and look ...

Lighthousekeeping Fri 09-Aug-13 09:10:50

They have all kinds. I was just abit weary as I've never used them before but it literally gives two different oils and says nothing artificial.

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 09:12:44

Ah - now I understand!

I wrote three different Ubercamp plans.

The first one is for people who eat meat/fish and eggs.

The second one is for people who eat meat/fish but don't eat eggs

And the third one is for people who don't eat meat, but do eat fish and eggs

I ran out of steam before writing one for people who don't eat meat/fish or eggs! (I think Chipping will have to write that one!)

Look at the column headings to decide which one you want to do.

IBO Fri 09-Aug-13 09:14:14

BIWI You are angel.. gosh you are so good doing all that!!! Thank you

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 09:19:39

Nigella I would assume that if a recipe asks for 100g broccoli, that they mean raw.

Interestingly, both books that I have only give a carb count for cooked broccoli. I assumed that they would give a carb count for raw veg, so that was a bit of a surprise. confused

The carb counter that I use on the carblife forum doesn't specify if the counts are for cooked or raw, nor does weight loss resources

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 09:20:39

It is my pleasure, IBO - good luck with it!

IBO Fri 09-Aug-13 11:48:43

I have one more question about ubercamp - can I have first menu (with eggs and meat) for two days and then have breafast from second menu (no eggs) on the third day?

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 11:51:15

Yes - no reason why not - carb counts are given for each day and they're all under 20g. It gets more difficult if you take a specific meal out of each day and substitute it.

IBO Fri 09-Aug-13 11:54:41

Great smile

And another one - tuna mayo - how much mayo I am allowed to have?

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 11:56:18

Depends entirely on the mayo. If you use the one I recommended, Delouis brand, you can have as much as you want as it's 0 carbs. For all others, look at the label on the back and work out how many extra carbs it will add to the day.

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 11:56:37

.... you could always try making it yourself, which is really easy!

IBO Fri 09-Aug-13 12:00:15

I made it once and I didnt like it.. maybe I should try again.. But not this time as I still have painting and cleaning to do in my kitchen so I save myself time by buying Delouis 0 carb one smile Thanks

BlackAffronted Fri 09-Aug-13 12:58:56

Anyone got any ieas for beef mince that isnt burgers or keema? <uninspired>

moussaka (i know it should be lamb but it's still nice)

bolognese (just cut down on the amount of tomatoes and add more water if necessary) - i sometimes serve as a stuffing for courgettes topped with cheese

i have run out of ideas now!

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 13:19:58

Meatballs? I've just posted a recipe on another thread - hang on ...

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 13:20:58

Meatballs and tomato sauce

For the meatballs:

500g beef mince (ideally steak mince if you can - any if you can't!)
1 red pepper
2 banana/echalion shallots
2-4 cloves garlic, depending on taste
1 red or green chilli, if you like a spicy taste
couple of rashers of smoked, streaky bacon
2 tablespoons olive oil

Put all the ingredients, except the mince, into a food processor and blitz till finely chopped

Add the mince and the oil, season with salt (be generous with the salt) and pepper, then process again till it's all amalgamated

Tip out onto a work surface/chopping board and form into meatballs - roughly the size of a large walnut/ping pong ball, put into a baking tin

Bake in a hot oven for around 20 minutes, till they are nicely browned. (Check them after 10 minutes and turn over if necessary - to stop them sticking/burning)

Whilst the meatballs are cooking make the tomato sauce:

1 x carton of tomatoes (I use Sainsbury's Basics, in a carton, as they are relatively low in carbs - if you can't find those, use any tinned tomatoes, but look for the lowest carb count)

2 shallots, sliced
2 tablespoons olive oil
2 cloves garlic, finely chopped
dried oregano, salt and black pepper

Heat the oil in a medium saucepan, then gently fry the shallots and garlic until soft
Season with oregano and salt/pepper
Add the tomatoes, bring to the boil, then simmer

If you like/have any fresh basil, this is lovely to add instead of the dried oregano.

Serve with lots of grated Parmesan (or mature cheddar if you prefer).

IBO Fri 09-Aug-13 13:51:28

this burger looks yum. Somebody posted the link few days ago and I saved it for myslef smile

OK my ubercamp shopping is done. I didn't fennel, mayo and celeriac. hm.. I was looking for celeriac all last week and supermarkets/farmshops do not sell it at this time of year. Can I use swede mash instead of celeriac chips? And what can I use to replace fenel?
I will have a look at Sainsburys on the way home so I might at find mayo there.

you will definitely find mayo in sainsbury's, and they do stock the delouis in the one i shop in

in sainsbury's look for celeriac among the ginger/chillies/herbs rather than the root veg. i don't know why they put it there

not sure about fennel though, sorry

IBO Fri 09-Aug-13 14:06:23

Willie thanks smile

StuntNun Fri 09-Aug-13 15:02:38

Just had a sugary-cakey craving emergency fortunately cured by strawberries and cream. DS2 has made cakes for his teddy's birthday and I'm not allowed one. hmm

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 15:17:18

Quite right! You aren't allowed! grin

NewStartNewStory Fri 09-Aug-13 17:55:00

That documentary has been running through my brain all day. You know those sweetners that they say is better for you because they are natural fructose? Well if you are using them you need to watch the program. There was a scientist researching who was studying where sugars were used around the body and which sugars were converted to fat more easily. Fructose didn't do so great!

Lighthousekeeping Fri 09-Aug-13 18:01:35

I need to cut my caffeine down. It's very hard! I'm doing great otherwise. I'm interested In uber camp though. I need to read about it. I don't seem to have a minute when I'm on nights.

StuntNun Fri 09-Aug-13 19:21:03

I went for a 7 mile cycle ride today and I was knackered at the end of it. I must be really unfit. Oh well, I have to start somewhere.

B: strawberries, blackberries, double cream and Greek yoghurt
S: Peperami
L: fried bacon and mushrooms, strawberries and cream
D: Thai green curry (beef, orange pepper, baby corn, mangetout and coconut cream)

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 19:23:53

7 miles?! Blimey, even if you were fit that's still a long way!

I think 7 miles cycling would do me in! I went for a half-hour pedalo on the sea yesterday and woke up with aching legs!

WAY too many strawberries today. Better than an ice-cream though, eh. I'm thinking of this as my ice-cream-free summer.

Negroni Fri 09-Aug-13 19:41:54

Wow Stunt I definitely could not manage a ride that long.

Well done to everyone doing so well. Really trying to get back into losing after bumping around. Been pretty good this week - prob a bit too many berries- so am hoping for good results when I weigh in on Monday. Just have to get through a wedding and party this weekend. But I think I just will have to be good, just had too many breaks recently and I am not happy with weight not going down.

BIWI I saw that rum in the supermarket today. Looks delicious. As soon as our whisky is finished I may have to invest in a bottle.

BIWI Fri 09-Aug-13 19:57:21

Oh it is lush, Negroni. Takes me straight back to being in Barbados!

BerylStreep Fri 09-Aug-13 19:59:05

Stunt well done!

I started cycling after New Year, and I have really got the bug! 7 miles is really good!

What sort of bike do you have? I started on a hybrid, and recently changed to a road bike, although my hybrid is still good. Best tip for avoiding sore knees is to ensure your seat is high enough, higher than you think. smile

Be prepared for your sitting bones to feel a bit sore tomorrow!

IBO Fri 09-Aug-13 20:14:52

Stunt 7 miles! Well done! How long did it take you? We did 10 miles charity walk a month ago and it took us 4 hours! But it makes you feel really good about yourself. smile

I stopped at our local Sainsburys and still no luck finding celeriac, fennel and mayo.. I will try bigger Sainsburys tomorrow..

lighthousekeeping me and nigela are starting ubercamp tomorrow if you want to join us

StuntNun Fri 09-Aug-13 21:02:33

Oh I thought 7 miles wasn't far blush it took 45 minutes. I have been idly thinking about joining the local triathlon club which would require 25 miles cycling for standard triathlons. I like swimming, cycling and running but I'm not sure whether I could commit much time to training.

StuntNun Fri 09-Aug-13 21:06:59

My bike is the 2011 version of this one Beryl. It was a bit sore on the old bot. blush But I was recently diagnosed with osteoarthritis of the lower spine, at the tender age of 37) so I have been advised to take up non-weight bearing exercise to strengthen my core.

Secondsop Fri 09-Aug-13 21:09:08

Thanks for the heads up about "the men who made us fat". My fellow low-carbing sister is coming to stay this weekend - it would be interesting for us to watch them together.

So, after 4 days of being away and indulging in things I shouldn't, I'm home and back on the wagon. Unfortunately the only green thing that has passed my lips today is avocado as I had a hotel breakfast (sausage, bacon, fried eggs, mushrooms), then travelled on a train for 5 hours and missed lunch (well kind of forgot to think about it, which isn't like me). By the time I got home late to an empty-ish fridge I ended up with scrambled eggs, smoked mackerel and avocado.

IBO Fri 09-Aug-13 22:14:25

I have just finished watching 'the men who made us thin' interesting...

B 2 boiled eggs and mayo
L half of small chicken (I haven't finished it all) within handful is spinach
D blue cheese with smoked salmon and 2 fried eggs, cucumber

S few cherry tomatoes
A lot of water and herbal tea.

BeenieBaby Sat 10-Aug-13 06:36:40

Sigh ds has decided 5 am is a good time to wake up for the second day in a row sad
But on a positive note, another lb down! I'm definitely not at my pre pregnancy weight (another half stone to go), but I think I look like I was per pregnancy. I would guess I've put on more muscle and lost more fat and am overall a bit heavier but not as fat?
Also dh has decided he'd like to join! Which is great as it'll motivate me to cook more exciting recipes. I'm thoroughly bored of frittatas and grilled veg!

StuntNun Sat 10-Aug-13 08:29:30

That's great that you can see a big difference Beenie, well done! My DH is bootcamping with me as well and it makes it easier as you keep each other on the straight and narrow. Last night DH and I kept each other company drinking white wine and eating pork scratchings - a classic combination! But if he had been off to the chippy for a curry chip I'm sure I wouldn't have been able to resist.

Vinividivino Sat 10-Aug-13 08:54:17

Morning all!

Does sparkling water count towards our daily intake, does anyone know? I seem to be living on tea and water and sparkling just about makes it bearable.

captainmummy Sat 10-Aug-13 09:21:45

Vini - water is water! Sparkling is good.

Beenie - great that your dh is going to join you - it does make it easier to cook. Be prepared tho for him to lose twice as much, twice as fast! angry My dp 'low-carbs' - he has lost 10kg in the past year - and now eats porridge, potatoes, occasssionally flapjacks/ice-cream ! (we've since realised that he was wheat-intolerant and he now avoids anything wheat-based, and is still dropping, albeit slowly)

NigellasGuest Sat 10-Aug-13 09:48:02

Day 1 of Uber camp for me today. I've not had breakfast yet. I have a feeling it will involve eggs!

If it's useful for anyone, I've recently bought celeriac in Waitrose. It looks nothing like celery BTW - it resembles a turnip. It is actually the root of the celery plant. I suppose celery sticks are the branches? <celeriac bore>

Lighthousekeeping Sat 10-Aug-13 09:49:36

I can't start ubercamp while I'm on nights. I did check my pee last night and I'm in ketosis so that's a good sign. The almond essence in my Greek yoghurt made it taste like marzipan. Mmm. My funny noodles have come from amazon. Any ideas to make them bearable would be really appreciated.

Negroni Sat 10-Aug-13 10:49:53

Ooh I remember BIWI wrote out a great noodles recipe on the last(?) thread - looked lovely! Are the funny noodles, nice, by the way.

Oh yes, sparkling water has to be ok! otherwise I would go insane

BIWI Sat 10-Aug-13 11:29:20

Definitely a big yes to sparkling water - it's the only way I could contemplate drinking enough!

Did you order the shirataki noodles, Lighthousekeeping? There is a recipe on the recipe thread that I wrote - but I've also used them quite successfully to make a 'spaghetti' carbonara.

This is what I did -for one person:

Dice a rasher or two of smoked streaky bacon, and fry in oil with a finely chopped clove of garlic till it's the level of crispiness you prefer. If you have any white wine, a little sloosh of this added gives extra depth of flavour. Cook it until the alcohol is driven off and all the moisture has gone

Mix together one egg, a generous handful of grated Parmesan and a generous sloosh (a technical term, obviously - probably at least 2 tablespoons, but up to you) of double cream. Season well with black pepper. (You won't need salt because of the bacon and cheese)

Open and drain the noodles, and rinse well under cold water. (There is a very odd fishy smell when you open them - don't fear, this is from the liquid they are packed in and the noodles don't taste fishy at all!)

In a medium sauce pan, heat the noodles through. You won't need to add any fat. You need to heat them thoroughly so that all water is driven off. When they are properly dry and hot, take the pan off the heat and add the bacon and the egg/cream/cheese mixture and stir quickly. The sauce needs to coat the noodles quickly before the egg starts to scramble.

Serve with more grated Parmesan and black pepper.

It isn't quite the same as spaghetti, but it's good enough!

daisychicken Sat 10-Aug-13 11:39:02

Nigella - celeriac and celery are not the same plant! They just come from the same "family" Celeriac is the root of the celeriac plant and is grown similarly to carrots or swede. Celery is the stems of the celery plant and is grown more like chard or spinach (at a pinch).

I can't wait till waitrose opens here - being built atm - so I can get some of the yummy veg I used to grow!

Still plodding on here but no weight loss.. I'm having yoghurt 2-3 x a week, same with nuts - I've cut down but perhaps I need to eliminate. I'm also assuming the fact that I can't exercise enough is possibly the reason that I'm not getting any further.. I'm hoping once school starts that I can try and push my walking on a bit more and I'm still pondering hula-hooping for toning up my belly/thighs.

BIWI Sat 10-Aug-13 11:40:06

daisy - list out your meals for me over the last few days - let me see if I can spot anything that will help you. And how long have you been doing it?

PMMummy Sat 10-Aug-13 11:49:00

Hello I'm back - failed slimming world - back to low carb, looking forward to feeling as great as I did last time with clearer skin etc.
Just wanted to say hello really grin

NewStartNewStory Sat 10-Aug-13 11:49:11

I feel your pain beenie ds decided that 2-4am was a good time for being up for a while. We started the day at 7am.

BIWI Sat 10-Aug-13 12:46:23

hello, PMMummy!

NigellasGuest Sat 10-Aug-13 12:49:00

oops I stand corrected over celeriac, need to check my vegetable credentials!

so far today : brunch, half a tin of salmon with mayo and a few leaves of homegrown lettuce.
3 coffees, one of which was decaff, with double cream.

Secondsop Sat 10-Aug-13 12:50:22

Re water, does anyone know why IPD says no more than a couple of glasses of sparkling water a day?

biwi I've got some shirataki noodles in the fridge that I've been nervous to try. What's the texture like? Is it anything like Amoy straight-to-wok (which I like, and miss)?

StuntNun Sat 10-Aug-13 13:31:14

Does anyone else have trouble interpreting their hunger signals? As a child I always had to clean my plate so I'm accustomed to eating whatever is put in front of me. I was just eating lunch, having cooked five pork belly slices that DH got cheaply and had to be eaten yesterday today. I put one on my plate with some microwaved courgettes (with butter) and my first thought was that was enough food. I ate a second one anyway because I was worried that I wouldn't make it until dinner time but that seems stupid. Before this woe I would have gone from not hungry to 'absolutely starving can't think about anything else but food' in about ten minutes so I think I might be afraid of getting hungry iykwim.

My other question is how important is it to eat lots of veg? I had five strawberries with my breakfast and a courgette for lunch so under the five-a-day con rule I should have three vegetables with dinner? But I have an enormous steak marinating for dinner, there's no way I could eat three servings of veg as well, in fact I was thinking of just having a few mushrooms with it and maybe adding a shallot to the steak pan and deglazing it with red wine to make a sauce. I don't think I'm eating more than four fruits and vegetables a day at the moment but I am eating a bigger variety of vegetables and bigger portion sizes as well so maybe it's okay.