Week 10 - Summer Low Carb Bootcamp - the final weigh-in!

(344 Posts)

well done on making it to the final week! pop your weight in on the spreadsheet and give yourself a pat on the back!

although the formal bootcamp ends this week, we always have an ongoing chat thread for support, advice and general chitchat, so we won't be going away. you will see on the spreadsheet that you can carry on weighing in weekly if you want to, but i won't be doing the biggest loser stuff until the next bootcamp

Hurrah! Thanks Willie at last a loss this week!

BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 08:26:38

Ooops posted this on the last thread by mistake...

Beryl, are we allowed to drink that fat flush water? It has fruit in it. Would love to try it if its allowed though!

Morning all.

I gained - that will be the wine and cream! But not entering weight anyway as still no real idea where I am now compared to old scales.

Holiday on Thursday so busy for next few days getting sorted and packed etc. Not planning to deviate from the food but finding it hard to say no to wine in the evenings.

Chipping - non-egg eating diabetic veggie sounds really hard so I'm not surprised you get peed off. I would too. And I know what you mean about cafes. Nothing to eat that doesn't involve carbs. It's a nightmare.

Maybe low carb isn't best though with so many restrictions for you? Have you looked at low GI? Still low in carbs but you would eat pulses etc. I'm not planning on boot camping when I come back from holiday but am planning on my old 'no crap carbs' plan. No wheat, no sugar. I think I will do that till next bootcamp starts and see how I do with that compared to this.

loopyloou Mon 01-Jul-13 08:35:51

Will update spreadsheet later but have STS despite the fact I'd dropped a lb mid week, I've put it back on now hmm That's probably the c**p food yesterday. Or totm.

Hope everyone else has faired better.

StuntNun Mon 01-Jul-13 08:53:09

Looking at tofu and Quorn Chipping I would think Quorn would be preferable since tofu is made from soy. There's no doubt that Quorn is a heavily processed food. I remember studying the manufacture of it at university and being appalled at the process of growing food in big vats. I suppose it's the kind of futuristic man-made food that was predicted in the 50s. That said if you compare it to the practices of meat rearing and meat processing, not to mention egg production, I don't think it looks as bad. I know Briffa has set out a blueprint for eating but I don't think that means we shouldn't tweak it to suit ourselves.

BerylStreep Mon 01-Jul-13 09:01:54

Black, I'm not entirely sure about the fat flush water - but I'm not actually eating the fruit. I reckoned that I managed to drink 1 1/2 litres water yesterday (a lot for me), which had one small orange and 1 slice grapefruit in the jug for the whole day, so I'm hoping that the benefits outweigh whatever small amount of carb would be infused by the orange / grapefruit combo.

I also found it very drinkable in the evening, which meant I didn't think about wine.

prettybird Mon 01-Jul-13 09:07:17

Dropped another lb smile despite all the wine at the weekend grin Even had some rice and some very alcoholic trifle at my dad's last night (he'd had a disaster making a cake, so he soaked it in alcohol to make a trifle).

I've not lost nearly as much on this BootCamp (less than a stone) as I did on the last one (over 2 stone and I was one of the Biggest Losers grin) but I am happy that the weight loss has continued and I've integrated this in to my everyday WoE.

timidviper Mon 01-Jul-13 09:18:13

Black I would imagine the soluble bits of fruit are the sugar but I have kept a jug in the fridge of water with a slice or two of lemon before now. The revelation to me was cucumber! Slice up some cucumber, drop it in a jug of water or a glass of fizzy water with ice and it is lush!

1lb off so 15lb in total this bootcamp but the best news is I have only 2lb to go to my 3 stone mark since I started. Also my BMI is dowm from the "morbidly, super, oh fuck she's about to die!" band into the regularly obese one which is a good start smile

kotinka Mon 01-Jul-13 09:20:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NewStartNewStory Mon 01-Jul-13 09:26:20

Morning. Food became a bit of a wipe out this weekend. Done far far far too much and by rights not even in the amount of pain I probably deserve for burning the candle at all ends and the middle. Mind you I haven't moved yet.
Strict day and will weigh in tomo. hopefully didn't manage to totally undo all of last weeks good work.

NobodyPutsMyBabyInTheCorner Mon 01-Jul-13 09:29:39

Hi All,

I only lost 0.2lbs. I've been very good but it's coming up to me TOTM so I guess thats it, I'm near to half a stone and have only been doing this WOE for three weeks so I'm very happy.

Can I carry on putting my stats on the spreadsheet even after this week Willie?

Negroni Mon 01-Jul-13 09:41:58

Hiya, well done to all you losers.
Timid - that is fantastic news and an amazing loss!
Pretty - that is a huge amount of weight off this year!
You are all inspiring me to stick with it and not go off and make Nigella's Guiness cake that was distracting me on that best cake thread that was total torture to read....

Not weighing in till tomorrow in bid to put some distance between weigh in and wine, almond butter, double cream and slightly sugared strawberry fest that was Saturday - hmm very much bending if not snapping of the bootcamp rules.

Now to have my second ever bulletproof coffee for breakfast!

Black - are you still oil pulling? I don't know if you saw but I tried it and liked it, especially as I am interested in keeping good gums/ losing sensitivity in teeth - had probs with both previously. How often are you meant to do it?

snowballinashoebox Mon 01-Jul-13 09:46:43

Morning. Considering that I went off plan all weekend, loads of travel, party food, wine, wine, hardly any water and more wine I have gained 1lb.
Really missed the water and will try and bootcamp this week.

So a total of 13lbs off for me which I am really pleased with. I really don't miss sweet things much anymore and think I have found a new woe.

kotinka Mon 01-Jul-13 09:49:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FattyMcChubster Mon 01-Jul-13 09:51:10

Willie, where's the ongoing chat thread please?

fatty this is the chat thread for this week, we might just stay chatting here it start another one next week - but basically this is it. Stay and chat here, everyone else welcome!

FattyMcChubster Mon 01-Jul-13 10:00:39

Totally new to the whole thing but in desperate need of some help!
Had dd 14mths ago, am actually putting weight on and I never lost it all after she was born!
Have made a few rubbish attempts but always fail on day 2.
Really really need something to work now as I'm so fed up of looking and feeling like this.
totally addicted to sugar and carbs so think this might be bloody hard work the right way to go.
Need to lose about 3 stones.
Comfort eat, boredom eat, just generally eat eat eat!!
So will follow on here but sticking to boot camp strict two week rules and if anyone's got any spare self control I'd really appreciate some of it grin

Negroni Mon 01-Jul-13 10:01:30

kotinka - oil pulling is something Black mentioned on the last thread, I think. It is basically some ancient ayurvedic practice of swilling coconut oil around in your mouth for about 20 mins! (Though I have only managed 16). It is meant to strenghten your teeth, improve sensititvity and help get rid of general bacteria in the gums. I tried it once and I quite liked it so am going to do it again.

Bulletproof coffee - this time no slow whisking with hand held bubble whisk but put it in flask and shook hard for 20-30 secs and what an improvement - lovely and frothy too. Who needs milky coffee - ha!

Go for it!!! And then in two weeks you'll be able to change your MN name wink

My top tips - drink the water! And snack away in the early days if hungry on low carb stuff, the desire to snak goes pretty much completely I find, but at the start I need to snack lots!

couch25cakes Mon 01-Jul-13 10:04:29

Sugary twat logging in sad
Was away this weekend and enjoyed an overload of wine, beer and bread.

4lb on but am pretty confident that I can shift that this week -buttery scrambled eggs for breakfast, onwards and downwards.

Willie, I was 240 last week, and 244 this morning blush

kotinka Mon 01-Jul-13 10:13:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

viper that is fantastic - those milestones always help spur you on

nobody, the spreadsheet has more slots so you can keep on adding in your weight on a weekly basis if you find it helps you keep to the straight and narrow

c25k - most of that will be glycogen stores/water as you know - a few strict days and plenty of water and you will be back where you were in no time

i'm on a countdown to a sunny holiday next week. i'm not really going to manage to lose much weight in that time, but i'm going to be strict so that i feel as sleek and unbloated as i possibly can. this last weekend i was boozing at a wedding, so a few days of strict bootcamping and low dairy are definitely needed

welcome fatty - if you haven't already, have a good read of the info BIWI has written here:

what is the low carb diet

how low carb diets work

the low carb diet plan

low carb bootcamp

plus there is lots of info in the spreadsheet, linked to in my OP

by the way, I meant to say in my OP but forgot, the reason why i'm posting the thread this week and not BIWI is because she's on holiday with only intermittent access to email. she'll pop on when she can get her nose out of the wine glass

kiwigirl42 Mon 01-Jul-13 10:51:00

williewaggledagger thank you so much for all the input you have made on these threads/ on the spreadsheet flowers

I'll weigh myself tomorrow. forgot this morning. think I will be the same for some reason.
Really like the idea of ongoing chat threads. Really helps to get ideas about what to eat etc

prettybird Mon 01-Jul-13 11:37:11

Oops blush

MIL has just bought us a giant tub of Queens Cafe ice-cream. There's not enough room in the freezer for it, so I had wink to have some blush

captainmummy Mon 01-Jul-13 12:48:41

Viper - fab loss! 3 stone!(nearly)

Black - how do you get 20 mins in the morning to swill oil about in your mouth? I think i'd probable swallow it while i was getting dressed!

BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 12:52:56

Negroni - I am still oil pulling smile I actually really enjoy it now and have to stop myself doing it more often!. I do it twice a day, and started about 2 weeks ago. I have to warn you though, I got terrible headaches for the first 3 days, and my gum at the back inflamed - but after research I found out that this is because of pulling out all that bad bacteria, known as a "health crisis". Im now well past all that smile My skin feels amazing (low carb already made it feel better but this is beyond that) and my teeth are whiter all ready, and my gums pinker. The rough skin on my elblows & feet has also gone. Apparently, swallowing that bad bacteria causes all sorts of health issues - premature labour & heart attacks are linked to poor dental hygeine!

grin Ill stop evagalising now

captainmummy Mon 01-Jul-13 12:55:55

So do you brush as well, BlackAff?

BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 12:59:30

captain, I do it either in the shower or while kids are getting dressed/eating breakfast. Remember though, that you cant talk while doing it, so make sure the kids know ha ha. Mine always seem to ask me questions when Im swishing!

20 mins once a day is fine, you can do it up to 3 times a day though. DO NOT Swallow! Its chock full of horrible stuff.

BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 13:00:17

captain, just with water on my brush - and my teeth have never been cleaner! You can brush as normal though, I just personally hate toothpaste.

Negroni Mon 01-Jul-13 13:11:32

Black - on oil pulling, I agree not talking is a real problem. On sat afternoon when I was in the middle of a session DD and friend were yet again playing with ie harrassing our long suffering cat and I had to limit myself to grunting and frowning in their direction.

Right back to low carb in case anyone dropping by thinks that this is now an oil pulling thread. Am trying to be super strict today and managing so far all for a good result on the scales tomorrow.

maidofmess Mon 01-Jul-13 13:22:16

I like the sound of the oil pulling (nearly typed tooth pulling!!!). I am rubbish at remembering to floss so presumably you can do this instead? Did you say you use coconut oil Black?
Well I ate and drank so much over my weekend away I've put on 3lb, so am going to try to get back on bootcamp this week and hope I can flush it out of my system asap. Well done those who've lost weight this week.

BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 13:38:47

Yep I use coconut oil. Reading on another forum about it, they say its stops your gray hair and it goes back to your nayural colour grin not sure I believe that one ha ha

Making crabbys kashmiri chicken curry for tea tonight, it smells amazing! Going to make spinach bahjee to go along side it (no cauliflower in the house & not going to the shops).

NewStartNewStory Mon 01-Jul-13 14:04:38

Don't know which part of that is more shock the grey hairs or the other forum bit wink

CBA with food today. haven't eaten lunch yet. Just too much effort.

maidofmess Mon 01-Jul-13 14:05:17

Def trying it then! grin
Like the sound of chicken curry. I've not eaten yet today (know goes against all the rules) but I was such a glutton over the weekend I've not been hungry until now. Just about to make some scrambled eggs and mushrooms. Sadly, have got to go to shops as not very much to eat with being away over weekend. Better eat before I go or the carby stuff will call me...

kotinka Mon 01-Jul-13 14:11:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 14:36:07

I dont drink the bulletproof coffe as Im not a coffee fan, so I have concocted my own "special brew" .... its mint green tea with apple cider vinegar & coconut oil! It actually tastes nice and Ive tried to get in as many health benefits as possible grin

BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 14:38:43

maid, that is the sure way to fall off the wagon! Its my downfall every time, I NEED tasty LC food in the house or else I fail.

MollyMollyMolly Mon 01-Jul-13 14:45:12

Hi Ladies,
Havnt been on since I started but I am doing well after a few blips. Have lost 5lb but am starting to be more precise with my eating so this should speed up.

NewStartNewStory Mon 01-Jul-13 14:45:20

Thankfully i am not suffering from a cold. fibro playing up. Taken co-codamol, and had a small glass of dilute squash which i have found helps "motivate" me to eat on days when i cba. Currently burning my poor tongue on tuna and cheese melt over cauli. Tis very nice but really did need to leave it to stand for 5mins before i attempted to start eating it. Would recommend though as fairly simple even if heavy on dairy.

Kotinka - tbh i am just tired and trying to get my head around the weird and randomness of 8yo boys, or 8yo ds to be specific. I am beginning to think that it is the road to madness hmmgrin Nothing that an early night or 6 won't cure.

so far:
breakfast: 3 eggs scrambled
around 5 cups of coffee
2 mini baby bells
Lunch: cauli and tune cheese melt

goodness knows what i am going to do for tea. considering sausage butties for the carb eaters and just some sausages for tea, will have to see what mood people are in.

kotinka Mon 01-Jul-13 14:48:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 14:48:49

great start molly smile

newstart, I just made sausages sarnies fo rmy lot, had pork belly & coleslaw myself though. Would you consider a hypnotherapy track to help with yoru pain? My friend is a hypnotherapist, and today she is giving away free downloads and one is a chronic pain mp3. I know it has helped people with ME, so nothing to lose? Here is her FB page, details there on how to get the download. She is very helpfull & will answer any questions you have. Just a thought, to help you x

BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 14:49:37

She also does hayfever, anxiety, colds etc if anyone else is interested smile

Welcome fatty you have found the right thing to do. I was also unable to stop snacking and eating. I now realise it was just that carbs are really addictive. So tuck into a good eggy breakfast and marvel at how long you can go without eating afterwards. (ie, all the way to lunch-time!) And if you do get hungry, DO eat (just make sure its a low carb snack. Cheese, veg, cold meat, greek yogurt etc.

You do need some willpower to make sure you don't eat the wrong thing, but at least you don't need to combine willpower with feeling hungry (always my downfall)

NewStartNewStory Mon 01-Jul-13 15:00:11

black i would consider it. My bigest problem is that i need to remember i am not super human and can not pull back to back 20hr days.blush Which is what i have a tendancy to do. blushblush And compared to most with fibro I am very very lucky. Mind you a good few years of pain clinic stuff for chronic localised pain has also helped i think. Will look at it when I get ds settled in an activity.

NewStartNewStory Mon 01-Jul-13 15:00:38


BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 15:04:37

The download is only free today, so go get it & see if it helps smile You dont even get hypnotised as such, you just listen to it, it uses word weaving techniques, and its only a few minutes long. I hate to hear of anyone in long term pain, and you are always so determined to not let anything beat you smile

Lily, the food addiction being caused bt carbs is such an eye opener, isnt it? For years I thought there was something wrong with me,I was to blame and was weak. Now I know carbs were the culprit and that I am actually a normal person. Well, kinda .... grin

i agree lily and black. i find i can still overeat (as in, eating beyond the point of satiety) with low carb foods, and it can't be seen as a complete cure for bingey behaviours, but if you can at least get rid of the rollercoaster of high and low blood sugars then it's much easier to overcome some of the psychological urges

blackaffronted and crabby, would you mind if i added a link to your blogs to one of the tabs in the spreadsheet? don't worry if you'd rather not

does anyone else have a low carb / bootcamp blog they'd like me to add?

BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 15:34:29

Sure, no problem, but some of my recipes are not low carb, so mention that too smile

StuntNun Mon 01-Jul-13 15:41:32

Fatty I find leftovers are my friend! If I get peckish and there's something ready in the fridge (cooked chicken leg, boiled egg, etc.) then that's the easiest thing to eat.

B: Greek yoghurt and a slice of ham
L: McDonalds' grilled chicken and bacon salad with my own dressing blush
S: an entire packet of pork scratchings blushblush
D: was going to be sausages and celeriac mash but I'm a bit 'pigged out' now so I'll have to raid the freezer

Out of interest I tried one of the DSs' fries in McDonalds and I couldn't eat it. It didn't taste of anything, I took one bite and ended up (discretely) spitting it out into my napkin! I can't believe I used to hoover them down four or five at a time because I was starving and presumably just didn't notice that they're tasteless.

BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 15:45:51

Bread is even worse Stuntnun! I cant believe that I used to enjoy eating it, its dull, tasteless cardboard now.

NewStartNewStory Mon 01-Jul-13 15:49:05

black tbh i have had chronic pain since I was 10 yo. I don't know what it is like to not be in pain. it is just the degree of pain that varies. If i did nothing just because of pain i would never do anything and that would not make me happy and I would never do anything. But i have been lucky as there are things I can do to help. this diet is the most recent, regular physio, keeping moving, a sport that lets me forget, really good friends that make me laugh. Ds is currently on the wii, so i have 30mins peace. <heads off clasping yet more water>

CrabbyBigBottom Mon 01-Jul-13 16:04:42

Hi everyone. smile

Willie yes of course that's absolutely fine.

I was a carby boozy twat yesterday and have put on another 2lbs, making 3lbs on this week. hmm angry sad Our friends did all come after all and we had a lovely long afternoon of eating and drinking in the garden. Vast amounts of prosecco consumed and quite a bit of sourdough bread dipped in oil and balsamic. God it was delicious. hmm

So, back on the wagon today, feeling fat, flat and uninspired.

TheChocolateTeapot Mon 01-Jul-13 16:05:26

Yay! 1lb down. I know it's not much but it is a huge result after the weekend I've had! (My husband has a whole birthday weekend - lots of wine, a bit of bread and some chips!). Now got three weeks left before my holiday to lose another couple of lbs. Willie - can we keep updating the spreadsheet even after Bootcamp, it does help me focus to see it written down?

CrabbyBigBottom Mon 01-Jul-13 16:09:43

Black let me know whether you enjoy the kashmiri chicken.

Food yesterday
Bread, olive oil and balsamic vinegar
Barbequed mackerel and herring, tomatoes and courgettes
Jersey royal potatoes in a garlic, spring onion, anchovy, caper, dill, white wine and lime dressing. I made it up and it was bloody lovely, although I had to put a bit of sugar in it to cater to the sweeter tastes of our guests.

BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 16:25:47

It smells divine Crabby, going to add cream before I eat it (love cream!) and will let you know. DH and DD (13) having it too, with rice.

ToomuchIsBackOnBootcamp Mon 01-Jul-13 16:52:47

black I may try the oil pulling. I have noticed my teeth are not as sparkly white as they once were like tombstones in a mossy graveyard yet another one of the joys of being over 40, gotta love that ageing process. If it can do anything for my roots that would be ace too seeing as I can't afford hairdresser this month! (And she's mobile so still half the price of a salon do!) although mostly I like the idea of preventing gum disease, as I too have never liked the feel of flossing, and so don't do it!

149 for me today, so officially a pound off from last week, and a maintain since I weighed at end of my übercamp on Thursday. I haven't actually had much cheese, just a few small slivers, or yoghurt since then, but I have been using cream in cooking.

B 2 eggs scrambled with butter and a splash of cream
L small piece of lamb leg with salad, cucumber and oil
D not sure yet, I have a small turkey steak to be used but I quite fancy a cottage pie, mince with a swede topping. Will go investigate veg bag in cupboard and decide from that!

BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 17:15:32

smile happy to see many people wanteng to try oil pulling. If anyone is sceptical, there is a scietific review somewhere that backs up the gum disease/oral health part, Ill try & find it if anyone wants proof.

Crabby, the kashmiri chiken is awesome! Had no cauliflower so had mine with a cucumber/cherry tom/shallot salad instead. Lovely.

Now having my 2nd Special Brew before heading off to Zumba!

Please do TCT - there are slots for later weeks, but I won't be doing biggest loser etc

daisychicken Mon 01-Jul-13 17:33:23

Black I've asked for the mp3 download - not going to loose anything by giving it a go! Thanks for the link x

BlackAffronted Mon 01-Jul-13 17:44:39

Hope it helps Daisy smile

Can I just remind everyone to fill in the survey for BIWI?


However long or short you have been doing it, thinking about doing it, all views welcome!

Oh yes and food for today:

B - bacon, egg and mushroom fried in butter
D - salmon and green beans
S - mini-pepperami and a babybel

kotinka Mon 01-Jul-13 20:41:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Don't do it kotinka - water and cucumber?!?

What was wrong with your turkey - was it that dodge one your DH bought? Mackerel pâté sounds nice though!!!

kotinka Mon 01-Jul-13 21:26:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Well done on the fizzy water front! Gold star for you grin

Negroni Mon 01-Jul-13 22:01:35

There is giant slice of chocolate cake sitting on kitchen table that DP was given as present for DD by a colleague of his. She has just had a tiny nibble as she doesn't really like cake. Neither does DP. What is wrong with my (slim) family???

I've been thinking about the Stall Trouble-Shoot notion from the last thread (combined with earlier ideas about a Real BootCamp)

Anyway how about the idea of regional BootCamp days (only day-time as I'd have thought most of us have families this being mumsnet. Regional so don't have to travel so far.)

The day could contain some of these:

Talk on how low carb diet works
'Fess all sesh where we all talk about the highs and lows of this WOE
Cookery demo and session (make our own lunch/OR something to take home for dinner)
Stall Surgery - talk on why we stall, how to get out of a stall, specific troubleshooting
Buy a tub of Crabby's yoghurt "ice cream" at the end

Anyone got other ideas to add?

I reckon, £35 each, 20 participants, £700 might be enough for venue and workshop leaders? Bring our own ingredients or pay a tenner extra for them to be provided?

Business-plans-are-us, hope you're paying attention BIWI and Willie

Negroni bin it!!!!! Let the ants eat it...

CrabbyBigBottom Mon 01-Jul-13 23:21:17

Thanks for that business opportunity Lily! grin

Black I'm glad you liked the Kashmiri chicken. smile

Meh Monday here, feeling crap all day, didn't eat enough and then was absolutely ravenous by 5pm. Local shop had sold out of bloody courgettes so couldn't do courgette pasta to go with ragù. I was pissed off and too hungry to delay dinner by going to the supermarket so I had spaghetti. angry I cooked lots of mushrooms and spinach to go with it and had a very small portion of pasta in relation to the ragù but still, I really wanted to get a spurt of weightloss this week and I've put paid to that now. hmm

B/L - leftover mackerel with tomatoes and h/m alioi. It was really garlicky and I couldn't eat much
S - yoghurt ice-cream™ wink
D - ragu with mushrooms, spinach and spaghetti
P - strawberries with clotted cream

MollyMollyMolly Tue 02-Jul-13 00:15:25

Just had a little bowl of Linwoods Milled flaxseed almond brazil and walnut cereal. Its really yummy when you want a "cereal" hit.

MollyMollyMolly Tue 02-Jul-13 00:17:46

0.96grams of carb per 30g serving minus 5 gram fibre (but I don't think we have to remove the fibre from the total in this country. Anyone else tried it?? smile

timidviper Tue 02-Jul-13 00:28:55

Great idea Lily. I love that thought.

I haven't had anything like flaxseed at all so far!

Another lb down here this morning having gone from hovering just under the stone mark I am now nearly at the half stone mark - hurrah!

FattyMcChubster Tue 02-Jul-13 07:35:16

Morning, just wanted to say thank you for the warm welcome yesterday.
Managed quite well and drank loads so no headache as yet. Even resisted DP with a Terry's chocolate orange! Evenings are when I'd normally cave in but I resisted and feel so pleased with myself for it.
Also nice to see a little weight off the scales this morning.

sounds a fab idea lily!

ZimboMum Tue 02-Jul-13 08:13:32

Just signing in. 1lb down this week (I think! - usually work in kg and sometimes the conversion screws things up grin)

Interesting about oil pulling - might have to start that as a dentist-phobe.

B: two egg omelette with small amount of cheese, bacon and herbs
L: mozzarella, tomatoes and Black Forest ham (I blame crabby grin)
S: few salted nuts
D: roast lamb breast with green beans asparagus and mayo

B: left over lamb breast with sautéed courgettes and mayo
L: will be tuna and avocado
D: will be pork burgers (thanks black) and salad

Also 1st run of week five c25k tonight. Not sure I'm a huge fan if running but determined to be able to run for 30 mins before I'm 30 in August.

BlackAffronted Tue 02-Jul-13 08:28:37

Great start Fatty, dont like your name though grin

Sitting here swishing away ... anyone else trying it today?

Crabby, DD said that dish was the best curry she had ever tasted smile

Good luck with the running Zimbo - I hate running!!

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 09:08:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Yes Fatty can you celebrate starting bootcamp with a name-change?

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 09:12:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 09:12:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StuntNun Tue 02-Jul-13 09:29:04

Sneaky weigh in this morning and it wasn't an optical illusion yesterday, I'm still under the 70kg mark. Hopefully I'll be able to get into my pre-pregnancy size 14 clothes for my holiday next week at which point it will probably all go to pot.

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 09:35:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FattyMcChubster Tue 02-Jul-13 10:02:08

I love how motivational you all are! How about a deal? If after a week I've stuck to it and lost I'll change to something more positive?

CrabbyBigBottom Tue 02-Jul-13 10:07:26

Well done StuntNun!

Zimbo I'm a terrible influence. grin

Black I'm so glad the chicken went down well!

Is this week's weigh-in the final one, or do we do all weigh ourselves next Monday for the total loss on Bootcamp figure, does anybody know?

I'm trying to keep myself on track here, as going for lunch with MIL for her birthday today and it'll be tricky to stay low-carb. Then at the weekend it's her/DP's birthday party, which will also have carbs galore. After my weight gain and spaghetti debacle yesterday I'm wondering whether it's worth the effort this week. sad

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 10:15:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 10:23:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crabs it is worth the effort last weigh in next week. Remember this is a woe not jut a diet, plan to go off task when necessary but what you do 80% of he time overalls will be what is important. My advice is if you have some carbs fine, but don't do what I have done in the past think fuck it and then eat carbs for he sake of eating carbs because and binge. Eat the birthday cake on the day, drink as much water as you can.

I try to think "do I want to be slim more than I want to binge".

You can do it - stick wih it!!!

CrabbyBigBottom Tue 02-Jul-13 10:39:22

Thanks both, and no you haven't annoyed me Koti.

It's more the slight disapproval from my MIL when I don't eat her food on Saturday, or leave food in a restaurant when she's paying the bill, that's making me wonder whether it's worth it. And also it's rare I eat out so it would be nice to just order what I fancy without worrying about the carbs. I'm having a Chipping style cafe menu crisis! grin

Also, I know that I'll drink loads on Saturday as it's a boozy family do, so even if I stay on-plan with the eating, I know the weight won't come off. It was the vast amount of prosecco I drank on Sunday that's responsible for the weight gain this week, I'm pretty sure, rather than a couple of slices of sourdough bread and a few new potatoes - those were my only 'forbidden' foods.

I'm not planning a big carby binge-fest at all; I've found it fairly easy to stick to this WOE long term, it's the wine that's been my downfall. hmm

Anyway I'll stay on track as much as possible with it today and keep off the booze all week. I've had a look at their menu and aren't craving whitebait with tartare sauce at all oh no I can find something not too awful on there.

prettybird Tue 02-Jul-13 10:46:03

It really is a WoE smile. Have the birthday cake, enjoy it, drink plenty of water and don't dive in to yet more carbohydrates.

I ended up having lots of ice cream yesterday after MIL bought a giant carton from our local Italian cafe blush. Still, this morning the scales suggested another 4lb drop as they showed 10st 4lb (yesterday was 10st 8lb) - suspect they were lying though as they can be a bit temperamental grin and that's after buying a new set wink

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 10:47:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

i feel like i'm just about at a stage where if i'm going to eat something high carb it really does have to be worth it. it's got to be delicious, exceptional quality or the best version of whatever it is

i went to a lovely wedding this weekend and other than the shitloads of alcohol (wine, champagne and slimline G&Ts), i stuck to low carb principles except for the fabulous pudding. because i just wasn't interested in the roast potatoes and the bread with the starter, but i knew i wouldn't get that quality of pudding just anywhere, and it was unusual flavour combinations and cooking techniques and it was exquisite

weirdly though i could feel the effect on my blood sugar levels, and i got a some definite siren calls of the carbs after that. it's definitely not a walk in the park by any means

Negroni Tue 02-Jul-13 11:22:34

Hmm, Crabby, I would probably limit the carb at the birthday meal to the bits you really want. Not because I am v well behaved but because the more carbs I have the more I want. If I have a meal with alcohol and a pudding, I feel considerably better than if I have had the meal with potatoes, bread, pasta, pudding and alcohol - I am sure the more carbs I have, the more my body craves them so if I limit them (while still having some) I find it easier to get back into the zone.

Weigh in today and finally seeing some movement. Just over 2.5lb off - so heartening to see some different numbers on the scales for once. Now just have to stay good to keep it off - starting with a bulletproof coffee!

I haven't managed to weigh in yet... Still feeling rough sad angry so I haven't been to the gym. I'd really like to feel better now!
Well done everyone who has lost this week smile

daisychicken Tue 02-Jul-13 12:04:08

Weigh-in: 9st8 (so 9st6 9st9 9st7 9st8) - think we can say I've sts(!) but I'm sticking at it and will continue..

I only get cravings from carbs if I have a piece of cake for example and say "one a week won't hurt" - its almost as if my body expects it and then I start to think but I'm being good the rest of the time so a little want hurt etc.. I find it easier just to say no. I had a little at a BBQ at the weekend but I knew it was a one off and it hasn't bothered me at all.

daisychicken Tue 02-Jul-13 12:04:51

bullet hope you start to feel better soon x

BlackAffronted Tue 02-Jul-13 12:21:20

Crabby, I can deal with the odd carb thing here or there, but a whole week off totally derailed me and I am still struggling sad so dont do it! I lost 2 stone in the foirst bootcamp & none this one because of going off-plan sad

BlackAffronted Tue 02-Jul-13 12:42:41

Breakfast - 1 special brew, bacon & eggs
Lunch - 1 special brew, veg soup, 1 crackerbread (3.5g carbs) & slice of ham

I have chicken quarter thingies for dinner tonight - anyone got an interesting recipe for a sauce or marinade?

maidofmess Tue 02-Jul-13 12:44:20

Come on crabby – you've done so well since we started back in May, so just see it as a temporary blip and plan your cheats this week. I derailed myself with a cheat here and another there until I've had a couple of really off piste weekends and am finding it hard to get back in the zone again, like black says, so I totally get where you've coming from. What Daisy and others say makes sense – it's got to be the occasional treat rather than lots of incremental ones so it doesn't affect us maybe.
Black - didn't realise you lost 2 stone last bootcamp. That's amazing.
I did okay yesterday (no booze, low carbs) but feeling really flat.
Am going to really try to push through the crap this week (didn't manage last week despite starting out okay)
B eggs
L tuna and mayo with chopped celery and cucumber
D buttery chicken with buttery green beans and buttery celeriac
Did the jug of water with cucumber and a slice of tangerine last night so thanks to whoever suggested it – really helped me up my rubbish water intake.

milliemoomay Tue 02-Jul-13 13:00:10

Hi all... can't believe it's the last week already - Happy-sad.

It was my birthday on Sunday and I had a lot of drink and ate 2 slices of cake. I just couldn't resist as I'd been good for weeks on end. I resisted the bread, potatoes, crackers etc...

I'm not weighing in till tomorrow though as I'm sure I've put on a lb or 2 :-(. But it was worth it.. the cake was divine.

Hope you're all well and gearing up to the end?

MollyMollyMolly Tue 02-Jul-13 13:07:40

Maid haha!!!! When you have been talking about " special brew" I thought you were having a crafty beer!!! but just seen you had it for breakfast, so guessing its so not alcohol. grin

MustTidyUpMustTidyUp Tue 02-Jul-13 13:35:30

I'm new and on day 3. Are you sure this is going to work? As I have been calorie counting for 2 years I've been deprived of butter/fat/mayo etc and I am loving being able to eat them! Just had a lovely lunch of 2 greasy lamb chops (not had a chop in 2 years) and cauli/broc/green beans with butter. It was delish but feels wrong when I'm trying to lose weight! Too good to be true? I'm not really missing the sugar either.
Nor do I feel crappy. Is this ok? Shouldn't I be in withdrawal? I have been very good and not broken the rules (last nights dinner was courgette with pesto and Bol sauce and a tiny bit of cheese). I eat eggs like they are going out of fashion. Bit of cream in my coffee. A tiny bit of wine in the evening (about 1/4 glass topped to make a pint with soda). Not hungry.
Also, I'm an apple and although pretty slim everywhere else I have a huge belly - is this a good diet for apples?

captainmummy Tue 02-Jul-13 13:47:44

Black - I had chicken thighs and legs yesterday, I covered them in the last of a jar of thai red curry sauce, half a tin of coconut milk and some stock. Add some cauli and leeks and served over broccoli or cauli rice.
I had the leftover sauce today watered down with more stock and some leftover cauli mashed roughly, as a sort-of thai soup.

Who was it with the citrus/cucumber water? It reminded me of a hotel in germany - at breakfast there were bottles of water, flavoured with strawberries in the bottom, or mint sprigs, or cucumber - very nice. I've got a jug in the fridge with cucumber, mint and satsuma-peel in water at the mo, and agree with whoever said it's like a Pimms!

MustTidyUp - yes this really does work! You have to rid your mind of all the low-fat,low-cal, low-cholesterol crap that the government have been feeding you for the last 40 years. Fat does not make you fat - sugar does! Fat fills you up, and levels your blood-sugars so you don't get that sugar-crash/starvation 2 hours after eating.

Not everyone gets carb-withdrawal/carb-flu. I'd didn't and i was a carb-queen!

It does work, and you get to eat real, proper food.

sammisatt Tue 02-Jul-13 14:24:24

Black affronted: bake chicken thighs i the oven with thyme, little bit of stock, garlic and a (no more than half) a lemon.gorgeous lemony garlicky juices.you can add cream too at the end.

BlackAffronted Tue 02-Jul-13 16:30:23

Molly, tis me thats drinking the special brew grin its a concoction of stuff thats supposed to aid weightloss/boost metabolism (green tea, apple cider vinegar & coconut oil) - no alcohol! ha ha On my 3rd cup now.

MustTidy - trust us, it works! I lost 2 stone last bootcamp eating lots of fat. I have never had carb-flu either, I just knew it was working when the weight fell off & I stopped being hungry smile

Mmmm those chicken dishes both sound lovely. No red thai paste or coconut milk in though, so thats out. Hopefully I have a stray lemon so can try the other one - thanks!

CrabbyBigBottom Tue 02-Jul-13 17:21:08

Thank you all for your support and advice; you're all fabulous!

Well we had a fantastic lunch, really delicious. I had cajun salmon with baby new potatoes and vegetables, so not exactly low carb but certainly low GI. Normally I'd have half a cider but I had mineral water with a slice of lemon in. The salmon was absolutely gorgeous, really succulent and the spices were lovely. MIL and I both had the same, and DD (10) had the most enormous portion of beer battered fish and chips that I've ever seen. shock The waitress said 'our fish and chips are a huge portion... we do have a child's menu'. I think the look DD gave her said it all... grin When it arrived I didn't think she'd be able to finish it, but bar a bit of the batter, she demolished the lot.

I'm going to be sticking religiously to the rules this week, and will deal with Saturday when we get to it. My plan is to have a glass or two of bubbly/white, then switch to red, and try to drink moderately. hmm grin It's a BBQ and MIL was talking about getting steaks so it should be quite easy to stick to plan. Resisting/refusing cake (and not making one to take) is the main food hurdle, and the fact that once I've had a glass of wine my good intentions re moderation appear to dissolve in the bottom of the glass.

B - few mouthfuls of smoked salmon in creme fraiche that I made for DD (this is now her favourite breakfast; she has expensive tastes that lass)
L - as above
D - will be the last of the ragu with mushrooms and courgette 'pappardelle' - I bought 8 courgettes today so I don't run out again!

Hi all.

Crabby - I am totally the same with the wine. Completely my downfall. When I steer clear I can stay on track.

Negroni - I did notice you offered to stay off the wine if I did but (1) I typed a big post at that stage and lost it and didn't have time to retune and (2) I haven't been avoiding the wine!

No point at this stage! Defeatist I know but we are def in holiday mode here and I am enjoying my wine. Opened last bottle of my nice white last night though so once that's gone tonight that's it.

Have another UTI. Started on Sunday. Dropped a sample into the doctors yesterday and they sent off to lab rather than just do dipstick test. Just been to pick up prescription for antibs. Had to chase them lots though. Desperate to start the antibs as don't want to feel rubbish travelling on Thursday.

Black - your special brew sounds vile! smile

BerylStreep Tue 02-Jul-13 17:41:59

It was me who suggested the cucumber / citrus water. Glad everyone is enjoying it smile.

BerylStreep Tue 02-Jul-13 17:46:14

Cider, you should take lots of coconut oil whilst you are taking the antibiotics - what with all the anti fungal and anti-bacterial properties.

I have stayed off the wine so far this week. I hope plan to stick to it until Saturday.

captainmummy Tue 02-Jul-13 17:55:38

Beryl - that water is fab. I usually drink 2.5 litres of plain water a day but I'm on my 3rd litre of cuc/citrus water! Might vary it with different citrus peels and different mints, but I love it.

Breakfst - usual rooibos tea with coconut oil
Lunch - thai cauli soup, celery stick and pate.
dinner - turkey burger in lettuce wrap, mayo, H/M coleslaw. (everyone else had buns and new potatoes)

Prob 1 cup coffeeandcream later and a bath and early night; save me from the wine/chocolate/nuts.

captainmummy Tue 02-Jul-13 17:58:27

Crabby - I'm getting good at disguising how little much cake actually passes my lips! Especially outside, when I can drop large bits into the shrubbery, or drop for the dog, or just generally drop! A tiny peice is all i need to feel I've done my duty - and I don't really want a dry, tasteless, sweet cake anyway

<disclaimer - I am not a 'sweet' person anyway!>

Musttidyup it all sounds good and most of my visible inches-loss from this bootcamp has been around my tum and backfat so I'd say, there's hope for an apple.

I should warn you about the week 3-4 stall phenomenon, its normal for weight loss to slow or stay the same in week 3-4 of doing this, it doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong apparently

Those who have stalled and ended stalls seem to recommend "eat more fat and drink more water". must go and take this advice myself

BlackAffronted Tue 02-Jul-13 18:19:01

Cider. my special brew actually tastes like hot cider - quite yummy smile

Abouttime Tue 02-Jul-13 19:03:36

What's the water you are all raving about please? I hate water so struggle to drink much as I also don't like tea and coffee.

ToomuchIsBackOnBootcamp Tue 02-Jul-13 19:12:33

Evening all, and welcome musttidyup

I know it seems weird to be eating fat when the standard advice is to avoid, but if you do some reading on low-carb (Dr John Briffa book "escape the diet trap" is the classic starter text, you will also find lots of info on the "resources" tab on the fabulous spreadsheet, link is always in the first post on each weeks thread) you will understand a lot better the sugar-insulin-laying down of fat on body mechanism. Good fats keep us full, steady and energetic!! Maybe a good idea to measure your waist/hips/tummy now and watch them reduce. I look "slimmer" at the weight I am now than I ever looked at this weight in the past, cos I am now not bloated and puffy from carb overload.
And not everyone gets carb flu, and the symptoms/severity vary a lot anyway.

ToomuchIsBackOnBootcamp Tue 02-Jul-13 19:39:32

And today's food

B 2 egg omelette with bacon bits
L pâté on cucumber
S cappuccino
D tuna mayo on little gem lettuce wraps

ToomuchIsBackOnBootcamp Tue 02-Jul-13 19:44:37

And I can add an extra snack just now of peanut butter spread on a slice of cheese. Def got the munchies tonight!! <off to eye up the strawberries >

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 20:12:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StuntNun Tue 02-Jul-13 20:16:57

It's DS2's birthday today but I couldn't have any cake because I'm breastfeeding DS3 who's allergic to eggs, so that's one carb pitfall avoided. Today was a great day, I had to put a new hole in my belt. grin

B: Greek yoghurt and a few blueberries, 10 salted almonds.
L: paleo win at the restaurant - half a roast duckling with mushrooms in garlic cream sauce. shock DH was green with envy with his five spare ribs and coleslaw.
D: dominos pizza for the birthday boy but dominos chicken wings and salad for me. No birthday cake. confused

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 20:23:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BerylStreep Tue 02-Jul-13 20:58:33

Abouttime Fat flush water

Some people may be more comfortable with just the cucumber and mint, although I am now managing my third day with the initial jug of mint, cucumber, orange and slice of grapefruit.

MustTidyUpMustTidyUp Tue 02-Jul-13 21:00:24

Thanks for all the encouragement! I am just not thinking about food between my meals and this is unheard of for me!
I tell you, if I have lost a couple of pounds on Monday I'm going to shouting this WOE from the rooftops and boring everyone I know
So, I've just done Zumba and didnt feel a lack of energy like I expected to from brig carb free or 3 days. This is good.
Off now to have chicken and avocado salad with homemade coleslaw (still embracing the Hellmans).

welcome musttidyup I think everyone else has answered your questions brilliantly, but if there is anything else just ask!

StuntNun good cake and pizza avoidance - I am impressed!

L - salad with turkey, bacon and emmenthal mayo mix
D - duck legs with broccoli
S - handful of cheese crisps, cheese spread with salted butter, sadly 5 bacon fries crisp things before I realised what I was doing and had a handful of nuts instead.

I have had a diet coke, but am drinking lots of water now to try and make up for it. It was a diet coke or crisps/chocolate/cake when in battle with my inner demon at lunchtime so I reckon the diet coke was the lesser of two evils.

Another lb down this morning, 1 more and I'll be at the next half stone mark, my next little target!!

Well done musttidyup - it is great isn't it and nothing wrong with the hellmans! It is our fave mayo here.

SamanthaJones Tue 02-Jul-13 21:54:57

Hello all! I weighed and I STS but I've lost 7 inches off my stomach since I started so that's something.

I'm considering no booze for most of July, I'd REALLY like to get another half stone off this month.

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 21:58:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SamanthaJones Tue 02-Jul-13 22:02:59

Anyone have any tips for not falling into a bottle of wine on a Friday / sat night? I don't mind AT ALL not drinking in the week but...

Of is vod and sod really much better? I didn't fancy that much, I want wiiiiiiiiine!

7 inches!!! Blimey - can people still see you when you turn sideways grin

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 22:16:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Is there a way of finding a different treat for yourself? I used (before bootcamp) to fall into a packet of chocolate biscuits of an evening... now my evening treat is greek yoghurt. I know its not even on the same scale! but it still means I can have that feeling of "I've saved this for my treat". Can you find something else non-alcoholic to play that role?

Or... well at the moment I'm on medication where I'm not allowed alcohol, I'm not exactly sure what would happen if I did, in my imagination its something horribly toxic. Which means whenever I'm in a situation where I would normally have a drink I've been pinching myself and mentally yelling at myself MUST REMEMBER Not To Drink! I guess this way doesn't really work unless the medical advice is real though.

BerylStreep Tue 02-Jul-13 22:43:44

Uh-oh, I sort of fell into a bottle of wine tonight, despite my best intentions.

There was a massive setback at work today with really major consequences and about 18 months work irretrievably down the pan. Pretty gutted.

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 22:44:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 22:45:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MollyMollyMolly Tue 02-Jul-13 22:56:32

Hi Ladies,
Bacon, sausage, scrambled egg, mushrooms in salted welsh butter
Sticky chicken, avocado, salad and homemade red coleslaw with walnuts and strong cheese.
a teaspoon of peanut butter
Might have some greek yog with frozen (defrosted) strawberries and cream ......mmmmsmile

BerylStreep Tue 02-Jul-13 22:57:35

Kotinka, having an early night and reading a book of a night sounds like a plan - I have soooo many books to read. Would keep me away from the kitchen. Off to bed now. Am reading Is it Just Me or is Everthing Shit which on a review on it's back cover says it is so relentlessly bitter it is quite uplifting.

I think I need a little uplifting tonight.

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 22:58:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BerylStreep Tue 02-Jul-13 23:07:56

Um, I have no idea what those would be for, but thanks anyway grin.

Negroni Tue 02-Jul-13 23:19:33

Cider - I have clearly blanked out any promises to give up alcohol! To be honest not having that much as with a baby DD and 6 year old DD we seem permanently exhausted and somehow I am not that tempted. Far harder is avoiding rule bending like too much peanut butter, too many berries, excess cream.

Mrs HP, I just had diet coke too, a cherry one! Don't know what came over me. Popped to corner shop for cat food and before I knew it I was swigging from the can.

Welcome to any new joiners, I have only been on the thread 4 weeks but I find posting helps keep me on the straight and narrow, makes me feel more accountable for how I am eating.

Now gearing up to make fat flush water. Want to see for self if it can really be as delicious as everyone says.

berryfreeze Tue 02-Jul-13 23:21:16

Haven't posted weight this week, nut before I do can I ask a really stupid question, ' weighing scales on carpet or bathroom tiles? There is a 2lb difference between the two places

Negroni Tue 02-Jul-13 23:23:12

Beryl - sorry that work situation sounds crap. Totally understandable that you needed wine!

Negroni Tue 02-Jul-13 23:26:01

Berry - I would weigh on an even hard surface where possible but would probably be persuaded to weigh wherever gave lower weight

kotinka Tue 02-Jul-13 23:27:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

berryfreeze Tue 02-Jul-13 23:40:29

Thank your Negroni
I will stick to your advice, that has made me happy hearing that smile

ToomuchIsBackOnBootcamp Wed 03-Jul-13 00:04:33

So sorry beryl that sounds hideous, wine def allowed!

kotinka I think lily was replying to samanthajones question further up!

berry I agree with negroni bathroom floor better than carpet, hard surface always more accurate for weigh-in. depilation of all body hair, cutting nails and removing contact lenses and rings is entirely up to you

kotinka Wed 03-Jul-13 00:07:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MollyMollyMolly Wed 03-Jul-13 00:42:19

OMG....sorry...I know your all talking about something else but im just eating a bowl of homemade berry frozen yoghurt....low carb......it is divine!!! grin

Ruprekt Wed 03-Jul-13 06:47:50

For dessert last night I had yoghurt with berries, dbl cream and flaked almonds. It was like a proper pudding! smilesmilesmile

The flush fat water looks good!

In the evenings, after dinner, I make a little snack platter.....olives, cheese, salami, pork scratchings, cucumber slices. Large glass fizzy water and a cocktail stick.....eat it slowly and enjoy each bite!!

Am currently at my lowest weight since I started this WOE.smilesmile

And Parmesan shortbread is amazing!

Ruprekt Wed 03-Jul-13 06:53:05

Thought I would remind you all about Parmesan Shortbread.

Grated parmesan or any strong cheese
Salt n pepper
Ground almonds
Flaked almonds

Beat butter and parmesan together and then beat in egg, paprika and seasoning. Add all the almonds and squish together til it becomes a ball of mixture.

This can then be rolled and cut out into thin biscuits to eat with cheese or as a base for quiche or mini muffins.

Bake at 180 degrees for 8 mins or so.

I know I havent put quantities but started with 50g butter and added almonds til it dried up the egg iyswim smilesmile

Biscuits are fab with butter and cheese, hot from the oven. grin

FattyMcChubster Wed 03-Jul-13 07:10:01

Ruprekt- any idea of carb count for shortbread?
Does anyone have any quantities? I'm not very good at guessing!

Thanks again for all the encouragement. Had another good day yesterday despite DP gobbling biscuits infront of me. Tbh he did me a favour finishing them.
It's only been a couple of days but I've not stuck to anything for this long in ages so it's encouraging. Plus the scales are already showing a loss, is that normal?

Had a really bad night with dd so will need lots of willpower today I suspect. Normally rely on biscuits and chocolate to live on get through the day. Going to try a walk today instead.
I'm not going to post weight or measurements or what I've eaten. Hope that's ok? Just finding the motivation is really good here.

What happens when this bootcamp is over? Do we have another or an ongoing chat?

SamanthaJones Wed 03-Jul-13 07:19:15

Thank you kotinki

I am upping the walking too this month and trying to temporarily cut out cheese

SamanthaJones Wed 03-Jul-13 07:20:13

And trust me, I can very much still be seen sideways!

StuntNun Wed 03-Jul-13 07:41:55

Fatty I have been amazed at how quickly the weight has dropped off, 10 lb (of 30 lb to get to my ideal weight) in 16 days. I am breastfeeding at the moment which probably helps as my calorie demands are pretty high. I'm anticipating the week 3-4 stall and hoping the weight loss will continue at a lower rate after that. I have a load of size 14 clothes in my wardrobe from pre-pregnancy that I'm just about getting into, hopefully they'll be comfortable by the weekend. I also have a bag of size 12 clothes in the loft that I wasn't sure would ever fit again (I gained a bit of weight after a miscarriage in 2011) so maybe they'll see the light of day eventually! I also have a single pair of size 10 jeans that I bought the week before I found out was pregnant with DS1. I'm not sure they'll ever be worn again! It's good to have lots of little goals along the way. My mum is overweight (size 24) and I think that was a big influence on me deciding that size 16 was a size too big and I needed to do something about it. This bootcamp has been invaluable for me, the support here is amazing. I've been trying to get DH to sign up for MN (StuntMonk perhaps?!) but I think he's too intimidated.

kotinka Wed 03-Jul-13 07:58:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BlackAffronted Wed 03-Jul-13 08:19:02

Waking up with a special brew smile

captainmummy Wed 03-Jul-13 08:30:06

Stuntnun - 10lb is amazing! Do be prepared for weightloss to be at a lower rate week3/4 as the weight you've lost will include water loss. You'll soon be in those size 12s!

black you need to start an oil-pulling thread! I tried that today, lasted 2 minutes. I don't like the feeling of a mouth full of oily saliva - does it get easier? I did have another go and lasted 3 minutes, then tried again and got to 3 again - don't know how you get to 20 minutes....
And then I brushed my teeth cos i didn't like the feeling of oily morning-breath teeth.. I'm not doing it right, am I?

BlackAffronted Wed 03-Jul-13 09:25:51

captain, I am swishing oil right now smile How much oil did you put in your mouth? I use 1 teaspoon. I can go half an hour or more now, but I did have to build up gradually. Where should I put a thread about it? Oh, I also rinse with salted wtaer after to get rid of the oily feeling.

BerylStreep Wed 03-Jul-13 09:42:30

Kotinka thanks for the uplift! I'm glad you clarified grin

I oil pulled for 20 minutes this morning, and am now having a bulletproof coffee and omelette before I go to work. I bought new coconut oil the other day, and it is very coconutty compared to my last one, which didn't really taste of coconut at all.

Black for the oil pulling do you actually swish for the whole 20 minutes? I swished intermittently, and just held it in my mouth for a while as well. I mentioned it to a couple of colleagues at work, and they have both been oil pulling for ages - they also both look the picture of health.

To distract myself last night I made hand-made chocolate things, for bringing to our hosts at the weekend. I adapted my last recipe a bit - about 200ml cream to 100g of 90% choc and about 1 tbs of Sainsbury's basics peanut butter. A bit of dark rum and vanilla, then poured it into a silicone heart-shaped ice cube tray. I will dust the little hearts with cocoa powder later. I had a bit left over, so I also have 3 small ramekins for the rest of the week. Crabby I might take some pictures and put them on my profile.

Ruprekt - I may try the parmesan shortbread later - it looks good.

maidofmess Wed 03-Jul-13 09:42:50

Hi all!
Beryl sorry to hear about work woes. Don't blame you for wanting wine either!
Fatty agree with everyone earlier, you'll def have to change your name grin I lost 12lbs pretty quickly when I started this WOE. I think 5lb or so in first week. Have hovered at same weight rest of the time but then I've not been doing it properly – more of a maintenance WOE really rather than a weight loss WOE but then I guess that's encouraging really as usually I'm a yo-yo dieter. Lose it then pile it back on...
Managed to low carb Monday and Tuesday with only a few slurps of DH's G&T, just a bit of dairy, so am going to press on this week and try to get those scales moving again. Motivated by lots of you on here having results sticking to the rules!. Just made a big jug of fast buster water.
DO like the sound of that shortbread Rup - have copied it to a file on my computer (am collecting loads of low carb recipes to make a file, so I don't have to trawl through the recipe thread)
Food today will be:
B/L streaky bacon bits with mashed avocado
D salmon grilled with butter, spinach & garlic, leftover green bits from bottom of fridge that look edible...
S hope not but may do some parmesan 'crisps'

BerylStreep Wed 03-Jul-13 09:46:35

Maid - you know there is a low-carb recipe section on the food tab - to save you trawling through the thread?

FattyMcChubster Wed 03-Jul-13 09:55:19

Maid- what are parmesan crisps?!
The only thing I've found so far is first thing in a morning im absolutely shattered. Feel as if I've done load of exercise the day before and I'm ravenous. Anyone else find that? Does that go?

maidofmess Wed 03-Jul-13 09:57:43

Thanks Beryl! Just had a look through smile

maidofmess Wed 03-Jul-13 10:01:51

Cheese crisps:
(can do with parmesan though obviously a much stronger taste) Think I must have copied this one from the recipe thread, so not sure who originally posted it.

Cheese crackers (makes 24)&#8232;&#8232;
225g/8oz Mature cheddar, finely grated&#8232;&#8232;- Pre-heat your oven to 200C/400F/Gas mark 6
Cover a large baking sheet with baking parchment. Put little piles of grated cheese on the paper, allowing room around each for spreading - you will need to do this in several batches or use more than one baking sheet. Add sprinkle of cayenne pepper.&#8232;- Bake for about 8-10 minutes, or until they are golden brown and when you try to lift one off the paper it feels firm. If it is bendy and collapses, put them back in the oven for a minute or two longer&#8232;- Cool on the paper and then lift off with a spatula and eat on their own or serve with dips. They keep well in an airtight container&#8232;&#8232;3.2 g carbs for the whole quantity

maidofmess Wed 03-Jul-13 10:02:26

Sorry - not sure what those weird commands are!

maidofmess Wed 03-Jul-13 10:05:24

and yes, that tired feeling will go as sounds like the "carb flu" many people get in the first week as their bodies adjust to this WOE. The suggestion to get through more easily/quickly it is to not listen to your body (ie keep ignoring the siren sugar call) and eat more fat!

maidofmess Wed 03-Jul-13 10:10:20

Like the sound of those hand-made chocolates Beryl - have just copied into my recipe file (sharpening pencils me – must get down to work!)

BlackAffronted Wed 03-Jul-13 10:20:10

Fatty, thats is probably just your body switching from carb burning to fat burning smile when you are 100% fat burning, you will have heaps of energy !

BlackAffronted Wed 03-Jul-13 10:22:21

Should I start an oil pulling thread in the low carb section or elsewhere? I have no idea where to put it!

BlackAffronted Wed 03-Jul-13 10:31:20

Ok, decided to put it in chat for now, would love some of you guys to post your experinces in it smile www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/1794313-Oil-Pulling

FattyMcChubster Wed 03-Jul-13 10:32:51

Ok. Was expecting headaches not total lack of energy but at least I know it will pass! I can last it out if there's a positive end.
I will resist the carbs!!

BlackAffronted Wed 03-Jul-13 10:38:23

I managed to do an 8 hour zumbathon not long after I started bootcamp smile the fog really doesnt last that long, and then its pleasing to know you are burning fat!

I finally got to the gym today (cycling as I type) I have weighed in at 11st 0.5lb so I have lost what I put on last week but no more. I'm happy with that, onwards and downwards!
Ive done an abs class and some lovely dead lifts and squats, all a bit weak and wishy washy but I'm hoping I am sweating out the last of this bloody cold grin

milliemoomay Wed 03-Jul-13 11:31:31

Well done bullet with the weight loss.. I too have lost the lb or so I put on as a result of an over-indulgent weekend, so now weigh what I did last Monday. Hoping to lose a lb (or more) this week.

2 intense yoga sessions booked in for today and tomorrow and hopefully a swim/sauna too.

CrabbyBigBottom Wed 03-Jul-13 11:47:38

Well done all the losers! flowers flowers flowers

Glad to know I'm not the only one falling face-first into the wine on occasion. Do we need a splinter group, like The Lush Low Carbers? grin

Koti I'm afraid I will always define myself by my food, to a certain degree. Of course I have other interests not just wine, either! but food always has and always will be very important to me and a big part of my life and who I am.

Captain your post about dropping the cake made me think of an episode of Seinfeld where he secretes meat in all his pockets to avoid offending his girlfriend, and Elaine takes his jacket to walk home in and gets chased by a pack of meat-crazed dogs. grin

Sadly our dog has a really dodgy tummy (pancreatitis) and is wheat intolerant, so although she would very happily eat cake (she's a incorrigible thief), I dread anyone dropping cake near her as the digestive effects are spectacular. I definitely can't use her as my cake concealment device. grin

Rup love the sound of your evening platter and the parmesan shortbread! Ditto Maid and the parmesan crisps. Does anyone eat gran padana cheese? It's similar in taste but considerably cheaper. I think it's a good alternative to use in cooking and Waitrose sell a nice one.

Beryl so sorry to hear of work disaster. flowers Those chocolates sound delicious. I might try making a version for the weekend, rather than having to make a cake. Tell me if you put the pics up and I'll have a look. smile

I have to admit I'm intensely relieved that you're all going to be talking about oil pulling somewhere else - for some reason the phrase makes me feel deeply, toe-curlingly queasy and gives me a stomach-turning shudder every time I see it confused [boak] blush I have a bit of a terror phobia about teeth and anything to do with dentistry (my teeth have never been great). It sounds like a really good idea and I bet I would benefit from it enormously, especially as I had a very long term painless abscess under my tooth that I wouldn't do anything about (they wanted to extract the tooth) which eventually went away. I bet it would have helped with that), but it's just something about the name!!!

Anyway I'm very pleased to say I've lost 2lbs since Monday, so that's proseccogate dealt with. Onwards and upwards this week with a big push towards the final weigh-in. smile

kotinka Wed 03-Jul-13 12:27:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CrabbyBigBottom Wed 03-Jul-13 12:41:56

Thanks Koti smile

I've just had a bloody lovely lunch of mozarella, parmesan, parma ham, tomatoes, olives and the incredibly garlicky alioli. I can now smell my own garlic breath and I'm on call this afternoon so I'm dreading having to go and breathe all over anyone! blush blush God it was tasty though, I love garlic! grin

CrabbyBigBottom Wed 03-Jul-13 12:43:28

Just as I posted that my phone went off! grin I haven't been sent out though. Maybe I should chew some parsley (which I don't like) and clean my teeth a few times.

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Wed 03-Jul-13 12:47:38

Cider - I will consider low GI sad

Holiday tomorrow - you lucky thing smile You will come back and tell us how fab it was wont you?? Please!

I don't know what to do, to be honest. I am fed up of the limited variety of food (for a non egg eating vegetarian) and I am now gaining weight despite not seriously misbehaving. It has been almost 6 months. I lost 12kg the first 12 weeks, I have lost & gained this past few weeks, overall I am now only 2kg down this past 8 weeks!!! I have another diabetes check up in 4 weeks, I can't go back basically not having lost any weight sad <apart from anything the diabetes nurse will be so fucking smug>. I am not going to meet my August target, which had been looking good and I am feeling very down about it. It is one thing to stall a bit, it's another to have started putting on weight. It is starting to feel like every other diet/WOE - it works for a bit then stops and I don't have carb creep - I really don't. I am frustrated because I thought I had finally found something that worked for me and not it seems not to?? What is with my body?? It's like it gets used to it then goes 'Nah - not happening' sad

How come everyone else seems to be going far more off-piste than me, but still losing weight???

StuntNun - I am having both Quorn & Tofu, as I have to have it everyday, if not twice a day, I need what little variety there is. Though - due to ^^ I am wondering if I shouldn't stop eating both of them - but then what the hell do I do for protein????

Timid that's BRILLIANT grin Go you!! (I was almost at 3 stone, now I'm just over 2 again - so frustrating!!) It's good to hear you are doing so well.

To everyone else - grinsmilesadangrywinethanks - as appropriate!!

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Wed 03-Jul-13 12:49:00

Crabby grin I love garlic, but it always comes out of my skin for a few days and I hate the smell, so I don't have it very often!

couch25cakes Wed 03-Jul-13 13:09:05

Hello all
Willie you were right, after my weekend indulging I am back to the weight I was before.

Monday food:
B -scrambled eggs with cream
L - salad with corned beef
D - Savoury mince on fried cabbage and leeks

Yesterday - day out to Winchester with work
B -Scrambled eggs again
L - chunk of cheese and 'chicken on a stick' bought in petrol station -liked shoping in Winchester too much to eat
D - roast chicken and fried veg

Today for dinner we are having lucky dip from a variety of tubs in the freezer, one definitely has chilli in so I'm nabbing that one grin. Popping off to lunch now and need to pop into the supermarket to replenish our cupboards. I find I quite enjoy supermarket shopping these days.

NewStartNewStory Wed 03-Jul-13 13:40:59

Suppose I had better claim that angry Chipping. I have been a bit of a sugary twat the last few days blush

CrabbyBigBottom Wed 03-Jul-13 13:44:58

Chipping may I ask why you don't eat eggs, is it an allergy?

I don't think that Low GI/GL has to be sad at all, I think it can be a really satisfying WOE. You do have to watch the fat levels in combination with the carbs though. I used to use some Antony Worrall Thompson recipes; I have a few books of his which he wrote after being diagnosed with metabolic syndrome. Tbh some of the recipes didn't seem entirely low GI to me, so I just looked him up to see what others think before recommending him to you. I came across this which is fairly scathing about him but also has some interesting stuff about low carb and T2DM, so I thought you might like to read it.

I'm sorry you're finding it hard at the mo and I really sympathise about not being able to just eat tasty stuff like others seem to - I've struggled with that a bit too lately. I honestly can't see how I would do low-carb as a veggie, especially without eggs, so I can see how hard it must be.

CrabbyBigBottom Wed 03-Jul-13 13:48:41

Btw I thought of you when looking at traditional alioli recipes and they don't use egg, just olive oil and sometimes milk, but if you're not that keen on garlic then I don't think that's going to work for you! grin

I've always made it without too much garlic [coward] as a runnyish mayonnaise, but this time I pounded a large clove of garlic with salt in a pestle and mortar as the base and used less egg. It's much thicker and one of the garlickiest things I've ever tasted outside Spain! shock

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Wed 03-Jul-13 14:07:17

NewStart - I disagree, I think you should take the sad. Considering all that you cope with, I think anything you do beyond pulling the duvet up and ignoring the world is pretty amazing! Don't be so hard on yourself x

Crabby - Thank you smile

I was vegan for a number of years, I went back to eating 'a little dairy' when travelling became very very hard as a vegan, but I simply cannot face eggs. I wont be too graphic, but I just can't eat them. I should give up dairy really as I hate the dairy industry, but vegan low carb is just beyond my comprehension right now.

I don't think low GI/GL is sad in and of itself - just that I am sad that I thought I had finally found a WOE that would normalise my weight, worked for/with my diabetes and was sustainable for life. Now I'm not sure I have and that's sad/worrying/annoying/several other adjectives.

I love garlic and alioli, I'm just not so keen on smelling like garlic for days afterwards! I do sometimes use garlic infused oil as it doesn't seem so bad! I have made my own egg free mayo, the first time it was 'ok' (bit of a weird after taste) and the second time it was a disaster, which I think was down to the brand of olive oil, unfortunately I can't remember which brand I used the first time and as it wasn't that great I've not bothered trying again.

The 'garlic thing' has, weirdly, been much worse since low carbing - mind you, that might just be my sense of smell changing.

MustTidyUpMustTidyUp Wed 03-Jul-13 14:57:30

Day 4 and I'm definitely having a slump this afternoon. Thinking about food. Have had a pint of water and a carrot with mayo and now having a creamy coffee. Feeling lethargic. Is this carb flu or is it that I was up half the night with DD?

kiwigirl42 Wed 03-Jul-13 15:11:10

Hi guys - still sticking to it but still haven't weighed myself. Bad 10 days of migraines so don't want to see how much water the painkillers have made me retain!

I did make a lovely mince stew yesterday and ate the whole lot (500g mince!) in one go! In defence, it was my only meal of the day and I hadn't had a proper, good feed for a day or 2. What a pig but it was delicious. I only fried up some shallots + garlic, added mince and water to cover with a beef stock cube, simmered for 15 min, added broccoli on top and simmered another 15 min. Really yum. I usually use a bit of arrowroot to thicken things like this but didn't have any and it was fine.

no plans for dinner today yet.

musttidyup it will pass. Making some stock (chicken or veg) to drink really helps as some think the 'flu' is due to salt depletion. I found it really helped me. I used Marigold vegetable bouillon powder

kiwigirl42 Wed 03-Jul-13 15:31:01

mollymollymolly have just bought some Linwoods Milled flaxseed almond brazil and walnut cereal that you recommended - sounds great for a treat with some greek yogurt

BillComptonstrousers Wed 03-Jul-13 16:43:02

I haven't any wine or chocolate for 17 days. I've just totally smashed the back of the car on a pillar in a car park. Someone talk me out of falling into the wine hmm

daisychicken Wed 03-Jul-13 17:01:03

chipping have you much weight left to lose? Could it be that you are near your body's natural weight and hence weightloss will be very slow?

I have a very sensitive sense of smell - noticed it a few years back when I stopped using deodorants/antiperspirants; stopped eating crisps
; instant coffee and stuff like that - Its as if my body readjusted and now I can smell all that stuff a mile away now! I hate DH eating certain flavours of crisps or alcohol or raw onion when he's near me wink grin

daisychicken Wed 03-Jul-13 17:02:44

Oh no Bill! Wine and choc won't help- honestly! Cup of tea and a spoonful of cream if you are really desperate! Hope the damage isn't too bad x

chipping if you go low GI I think you will have almost no choice but to go with the metformin - I am not at all convinced by the science behind low GI and it didn't particularly help my blood sugars at all. Do you want to post exactly what you are eating for a few days and see if we can help at all?

BillComptonstrousers Wed 03-Jul-13 17:23:53

And to top it all off I've just picked my youngest up from her first day at nursery and she has obviously been crying her eyes out, I feel awfulhmm I know the wine and chocolate won't help, why do we always see having stuff like that as an end to a bad day?

FattyMcChubster Wed 03-Jul-13 18:23:20

Bill, dd was up all night and has whinged all day long. DP not feeling well so can't hand her over. Wine and choc sound amazing but NO! We can resist! Can you do something nice for yourself instead? Nails? Organise something? What do you like (apart from wine and choc!) ?

ToomuchIsBackOnBootcamp Wed 03-Jul-13 18:35:30

So sorry bill that is a shit day but daisy is right, wine n choc are almost programmed into us (look at greetings cards, tea towels, coasters, magazines, "girl night in" packages etc etc) as the solution to stress. When in fact all they will do is send your blood sugar soaring (hyper, anxious) then crashing (exhausted, defeated). Not the responses I want when dealing with trouble. I would rather be calm, full and have the right energy to think and plan my actions. So why not break with the status quo of what we "should" want, and instead treat your body and mind to some tip top nourishing delicious food that will help rather than hinder your reactions to your day?

ToomuchIsBackOnBootcamp Wed 03-Jul-13 18:41:18

fatty your questions from the last page,

Yes it's normal to have a loss straight away. Your body is de-bloating, losing the water we retain with carbs/glycogen stores so most people experience a big loss, both on scales and inches in the first week/two. Ten it slows down as you adjust to fat-burning then usually picks up again week 5/6 (if you stick to the principles of course).

Absolutely fine not to post your details, and just be here for support. Some share a lot, some a little, some lurk. All welcome.

We have a chat thread ongoing after this official 10 week bootcamp finishes. People can still weigh in weekly and put on s/s if it helps them stay on course (I do, I like to feel I am answerable for my choices) but we keep on chatting regardless.

ToomuchIsBackOnBootcamp Wed 03-Jul-13 18:42:00

then not ten! Dyac.

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Wed 03-Jul-13 18:42:25

MustTidy - probably being up with DS and life in general if I'm anything to go by. I've had a day off today and had a lot of things I wanted to do, I've done feck all sad Just sooooooo tired. Mind you, I'm getting about 3 hrs sleep every night, so hardly surprising really.

Actually, that's probably contributing to lack of weight loss a bit, lack of sleep - but there's f-all I can do about it, or I'd sodding well be doing it!!

Kiwi - Poor you sad Don't worry about your 'weight', if it's water it will soon sort itself out when you drop the meds, it's not fat so doesn't count! Can I convince myself it's just water weight due to the warmer weather?? Someone suggested it the other day... hmmm...

Bill shitty bollocks sad However, stay away from the wine. You will regret it and it wont un-damage the car will it!!! No point in feeling bad about two things!! Poor little DD sad How old is she? I suggest you two have lots & lots of cuddles and an early night together.

Daisy - I wish I was within shouting range of my target weight - I'm not. I still have loads to lose (and by loads I mean several stone) sad so no, it's not 'near goal' slowing sad

MrsHP - I think that too - bloods have been a little bit higher the last couple of weeks as well. Nothing shocking just 5.6/5.8 fasting and 6.4/6.5 after meals (but I'm not testing much now, only really if I have a reason to so I might be missing the lower results). My next text is early August, so I wont be changing anything much before then I don't think. I can post what I'm eating, but it's very boring grin

Breakfast - none (I'm allowed this far in and I wasn't hungry --for anything that wasn't a baked good). Couldn't even have coffee as the cream had gone off, even though it was in date, and I don't like it black.

Lunch - a whole packet of Cauldron Marinated Tofu. (1 g per 100g of carbs). It's about 190g I think. Cooked in olive oil (I know, I know, but you can't cook it in butter and it's vile in coconut oil, so what option is there??), a panful of mushrooms cooked in butter, a few handfuls of wild rocket and a very small piece of blue cheese mixed in.

Snack - Almonds.

Haven't had dinner yet and not sure what I'm having.

ToomuchIsBackOnBootcamp Wed 03-Jul-13 18:50:16

Could someone who isn't on a spectacularly unhelpful ipad please put my weight on the s/s for this week at 149, many thanks.

B 2 soft boiled eggs with asparagus dippers
L on the run, cocktail sausages and prawns/cocktail dip from M&S, was best option available where I was.
S small slice cheese, edge of the ham that Ds didn't like.
D 2 burgers with cheesey melts on top, salad.

BillComptonstrousers Wed 03-Jul-13 19:04:36

I've had a spoonful of peanut butter instead grinit's quite hard going without wine for what feels like ages. Apart from being pregnant, it's probably the longest I've gone without wine for about 20 years. And that's pretty bad.

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Wed 03-Jul-13 19:14:31

Well done Bill smile Not long till bedtime now - you can resist it!!

BerylStreep Wed 03-Jul-13 19:17:35

I have posted pics of my handmade chocolates on my profile. They are very, very good (not really bootcamp, more for BC lite).

Making salmon and asparagus with Hollandaise sauce for tea, if I can find the recipe for hollandaise.

chipping keep the faith. I think it sounds like stress, lack if sleep and warmer weather. Give it until your next bloods and then take stock and make decisions then. Is there nothing you can do about getting more sleep? For me lack of sleep means I eat more (low carb but more) and I definitely lose a lot less. I know it is shit, and much harder on a restricted diet for you too. Perhaps look back at the threads when you started and recreate some of those meals/days and keep chugging the water. Are you able/doing any walking at the moment - might just cheer you up a bit, get the adrenalin going again?

BerylStreep Wed 03-Jul-13 19:32:34

Bill, sorry to hear about your car.

Beryl, could I have the recipe for those chocs please? They look yum!

MollyMollyMolly Wed 03-Jul-13 19:54:08

Chipping don't give up on the vegan low carb. There are lots of people who do it successfully. Have a look around the web..smile



here are a few that might be helpful.

kiwi it is really nice and you can get different types with dried berries too. You can have it on its own or poss put hot milk in it like a porridge mix.

loopyloou Wed 03-Jul-13 20:12:37

Not had a good week so far. Worry about DH finding a new job, how we'll pay the bills til he does, totm and lack of sleep (keep waking at 4.30 and lie there worrying til alarm goes off) sent me totally off track. I won't be able to afford much meat for a while so will have to go back to serving more pasta etc.

I'll keep reading on here and do my best when I'm in a better frame of mind hmm

loopyloou Wed 03-Jul-13 20:33:39

Bill sorry to hear about your car and hope your DD is ok.

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Wed 03-Jul-13 20:37:38

Beryl - they look lovely smile

MrsHP - thank you smile I think I am still eating/doing pretty much exactly what I was then... slightly less carbs if anything because if you remember, right at the beginning I was eating that rye bread toasted with the avocado, cheese & seeds, now I'm just having the avocado & seeds (if anything). I'm not having lattes (which I did for ages). I honestly don't know. But yes, I'm going to low-carb until my next tests and try very very hard not to fall off the wagon on the way there! You can imagine how happy I am about having to see the diabetes nurse being the same weight as I was 3 months ago, she's going to love that fuck it.

I can't walk at the moment as I can't really weight bare too much on my feet (on going thing that flares up at times, have to keep the weight off as much as possible for a bit). Really frustrating.

Dinner - Quorn 'chicken' bits (cooked in olive oil), courgette & brocolli stems (love them!!) all cooked in butter. Then, for the first time since starting this I had some raspberries & cream. First pudding thing I have had since I started in January. It was either that or something completely 'off piste'.

MollyMollyMolly - thanks for the links smile

Loopy - I'm not eating any meat at all, so it is still possible x Sorry it's such a worrying time for you sad

ToomuchIsBackOnBootcamp Wed 03-Jul-13 20:42:29

Sorry to hear that loopyloou hope things improve soon and we will be here to chat, even if you just need to vent.

StuntNun Wed 03-Jul-13 20:53:00

Sorry to hear of bad days and down in the dumps. I am on the verge of falling off the wagon on to a plate of curry chips so these paprika celeriac chips better do the trick.

B: strawberries, blueberries and Greek yoghurt
L: fried mushrooms in garlic butter, roast chicken thighs
D: fried pork chop and stir fried baby corn
S: celeriac chips

I had the dreaded laid-on lunch at a work event and it was sandwiches. Which I ate. But I did not eat the chocolate brownies! So I will claw my way back.

Glad to hear you are losing again Crabby maybe it will be you next Chipping?

I had a meal last night that would be vegetarian-non-egg: Carrot and coriander soup, with asparagus and butter on the side. Now I admit its probably not nutritionally my finest hour but presumably there is some protein in the cream in the soup (and the butter?). Is that an option to throw into the mix Chipping?

MollyMollyMolly Wed 03-Jul-13 21:02:06

Chipping my friend was very overweight....5 stone and had diabetes. She had been on and off diets her whole life and then just decided to do it. She low carbed and was vegetarian. She had linseed and nut cereal, apples as snacks, salads and avocado, walnuts, cheese, tofu, home made coleslaw, pine nuts, olives, sundried tomatoes. She also made homemade soups and veg caseroles . Lots of veg and roasted tofu . She lost the 5 stone. Took her about a year and she reduced her diabetes meds to nearly nothing. Her feet got better.

BlackAffronted Wed 03-Jul-13 21:04:00

Daisy, did you say dont use deoderant. what do you use instead? ive often worried about using them, but dont know what to do instead.

Loopy, so sorry you are having a shit time sad

Back from zumba, had an epsom salt bath and totally ready for bed <yawn>

MollyMollyMolly Wed 03-Jul-13 21:07:40

Black I don't use deodorant either . I use pitrock roll on for women.

loopyloou Wed 03-Jul-13 21:16:26

Thanks guyssmile. I was already frustrated at not losing weight last week after sticking to Low carb but with some cheese and yoghurt, then the news about the job and now hormones are driving me over the edge. Ate biscuits for the first time in months shock hmm

Today I thought sod it, we were out on a spa day we booked ages ago and had very limited choice of food plus cream tea included so I have had a total write off day.

However, the food in the fridge is still fairly sensible so there is still hope this week.

Can't do veggie, I get terrible IBS from most veg and soya hmm Wheat aggravates my IBS too so need to stay away from that as much as possible too.

loopyloou Wed 03-Jul-13 21:17:06

Sorry to hear about your feet chipping, hope things improve soon.

BlackAffronted Wed 03-Jul-13 21:58:38

whats that then molly? where do you get it?

You can buy PitRok in Boots, its some kind of salty thing that stops odour and bacteria but not sweat. All natural smile my Dad loves it I use Mitchum super strength

here's the bumpf.

daisychicken Wed 03-Jul-13 22:25:10

black I use bicarb!! Deodorants just don't work for me so after a lot of research I started using bicarb mixed with coconut oil which works great but I found using bicarb like talc works just as well (& cheaper!)

chipping how long have you been low carb'ing then? What level of carbs are you having a day (roughly)?

BerylStreep Wed 03-Jul-13 22:44:22

Loopy Hope things look up soon. In the meantime, if the family meal need to be more carb based, try serving brown rice rather than pasta - at least it is wheat free. BIWI has loads of ideas about really cheap cuts of meat done in the slow cooker.

Bullet My chocs aren't really bootcamp - more BC lite, but here goes.

Heat 200ml double cream on a low heat. Once warmed through, add dessertspoon each of dark rum & Sainsbury's basics peanut butter, and a tsp of vanilla extract. Once the peanut butter has melted, add a 100g bar of 90% chocolate, broken into small bits. I poured mine into a silicone heart shaped ice cube tray, but you could also do ramekins. Keep in the fridge ideally overnight.

If I was doing it again, I would use cake release as it was tricky enough getting the chocs out of the silicone mould. Then I sprinkled them with cocoa powder.

Chipping you are doing great. Am I right in thinking you have lost about 12kg since the start of the year? Well done! Tell the smug nurse how pleased you are that you have lost all that weight and maintained it!

chipping you and I both know she is a right PITA! It would of course be lovely for you to have lost more weight to be at that next goal and show her that she was wrong. Ultimately though this is about you and how you feel, and your body, and your blood sugars. If you are feeling rubbish about it tweak it a bit, as you see fit - I think as an almost vegan low carber that I (and possibly others) find it harder to perhaps suggest things as it is simply outside my knoweldge zone completely if that makes sense - you know how to tweak and check you did it before. Add back in some things you fancy and just test a bit to work out what your body can and can't tolerate. I know for example that for me potatoes will always send my sugars sky high, as will pasta of any kind, sweet potatoes if I only have a couple of pieces on the other hand are much better tolerated by my body etc... but I have only worked that out through trial and error and careful testing over time and that might not be something you want to do between now and August. Your raspberries and cream sound lovely and I hope you enjoyed them!

loopyloou Wed 03-Jul-13 22:52:18

Thanks beryl. I hope BIWI will have some recipes for the slow cooker for me when she gets back. I'm trying to get my shopping down to max £50 per week, but my dh eats a lot and is also quite down at the moment understandably. My dd hates slow cooker food but will have to deal with it grin

Thanks Beryl, the week after next I have a weekend away with lots of home baking available so I want to take something delicious and low carb so I can resist the caaaaake! And your chocs look perfect smile

MollyMollyMolly Wed 03-Jul-13 23:09:21

That's it Bullet but I use this onehttp://www.pitrok.co.uk/product/pitrok-crystal-roll-on-deodorant-for-women/ I also carry it around with me all day just in case. smile The one *Bullet showed is the crystal stick that you wet under water. The one I use is liquid roll on.

BerylStreep Wed 03-Jul-13 23:10:16

Yes bullet, I find when I am visiting for a meal, if I bring lc 'gifts' and then at least I can have something without drawing attention to it.

We went to a party last week, and I brought a massive bowl of strawberries, raspberries and blueberries with me.

daisychicken Wed 03-Jul-13 23:29:41

chipping if you've lost 12kg since the start of the year then that's a huge achievement and perhaps this nurse is being totally unrealistic as to how much you would actually lose in such a short time? What I'm saying is that yes, you can lose more but maybe your weight is shifting in body shape rather than actual weight loss? Are you exercising? Could the weight be changing to muscle (which is heavier than "fat")?

Don't beat yourself up, you've made a fantastic start and you will lose more, it'll just take time!

MollyMollyMolly Thu 04-Jul-13 00:31:39

Chipping Daisy just said you have lost 26lbs sine the beginning of the year ......then "Wow" that is really really good and its also the proper way to lose weight for good health. Losing just over 4lbs a month is excellent and you should be giving yourself a big pat on the back. Seriously, why are you letting the nurse speak to you like she does? It is not acceptable for her to be anything other than encouraging especially since you have lost nearly 2 stone. You need to stand up to her and tell her that your weight is moving in the right direction and at this rate you will have lost three and a half stone by Christmas which is bloody great.
It didn't go on over night so it will take time to come off and the thing is by doing it slowly you are more likely to keep it off.
Well done you I say.....well done grin

Ruprekt Thu 04-Jul-13 07:42:44

Keep the faith!! smilesmilesmile

I was 196 lbs on 1 January and today (just weighed) I am 170lbs!!!

Yay me!!!!

Have recently switched to 5:2 lowcarb which works for me.

Fasting today.

thanksthanks For Chipping. smile

MustTidyUpMustTidyUp Thu 04-Jul-13 08:45:55

Hi all quick question. I'm on week 1 and am prone to constipation - can I use those probiotic yog drinks? I've heard this can help prevent it.

WOW Rup that is awesome! Well done!
Chip You are losing at a rate of pound a week which is what doctors recommend, so tell your nurse to bugger orf! Keep strong, you'll get there! If you really believe in this woe, that its the healthiest way to eat, then you can stick to it. That is what has kept me going despite my average weight loss being less than half pound a week! flowers
Musttidy I doubt you could have them, they are usually full of sugar! Check the pack though - look for under 5g of carbs per 100g.
All the fat you will be eating and all the lovely veg should keep you regular, maybe less often and enormously toilet blocking, blush but regular. Flax seed also can be helpful, but might stall you. And magnesium supplements usually make you poop! I had to stop taking them!!

MollyMollyMolly Thu 04-Jul-13 08:58:19

Must I would say no to priobotic yoga as they are loaded with sugar. Drinking loads of water and eating lots of allowed veg will help with it.

BlackAffronted Thu 04-Jul-13 09:01:39

thanks everyone fo rthe info on the pitrock & bicarb remedy - I have wanted an alternative for ages, going to try these!

StuntNun Thu 04-Jul-13 09:04:01

MustTidyUp I get a probiotic natural yoghurt ( this one ) which is low carb.

BlackAffronted Thu 04-Jul-13 09:04:06

Must, can you get some phsyllium husks or magnesium? Either of those will sort you out!

Rup & Chip you have done amazing! Well done flowers

MollyMollyMolly Thu 04-Jul-13 09:16:49

sorry I meant no to priobotic drinks not yoghurt. Drinks are full of sugar. Just have the yoghurt.

BillComptonstrousers Thu 04-Jul-13 09:37:08

Hey Ruprekt, I'm fasting today as well, but I always have 3 meals.
B- Gouda and ham
L- shredded chicken Thai salad
D- fake chicken fried rice.

It works out about 450 cals. Great weight loss, good luck with your fasting!

daisychicken Thu 04-Jul-13 10:25:22

* chipping* it's normal to have a fast start to weight loss on a low carb diet and then to slow - Atkins even advocates this way of loosing weight - it's unhealthy to lose all weight too quickly. As far as I can recall (& bullet backs my memory up wink ) this is the recommended way of losing weight so yes, tell that nurse to bugger off!

Feeling peckish - had yog and berries for b'fast so not enough fat - knew I should have had something else as well! - but need to nip out before I can have anything.... My will-power is going to be tested... FIL dropped round a huge bag of gooseberries plus I picked the last load of rhubarb... ds2 wants to make jam which is fine... but I need jars.. The cheapest way to get jars is to buy value lemon curd - I cant entertain throwing the curd away so will have to make cakes or bread.. eek! This diet works so much better for me when I don't bake(!) perhaps I should just spend the extra money on new jars.... confused

rubybricks Thu 04-Jul-13 10:28:23

good morning losers smile

i haven't been posting because frankly i'd fallen so badly and irretrievably off the wagon that i didn't even bother weighing in and was sort of resigned to lurking - but am back posting to say:

1. i am still 10.10 today! STS but this is a miracle really. i have been 11 stone something for YEARS and never believed i could be in the 10s. when i think back to the early weeks of bootcamp all that has changed is that i was disciplined (and cut out wine completely!)

2. i thought this was the last weigh in - but if it's not, that means if i ubercamp now, i might get down to 10 st 7 - which would be a stone off and way more than i deserve.

3. impending bikinigate has meant getting the summer wardrobe out - and there are things there that finally fit! (but by the same token, old favourites that are now loose/tired) and this has given me the incentive i need to continue. DH has also noticed that i've lost weight, which pleased me.

4. have bought briffa's diet trap to read on my kindle (felt blush reading the IPD book irl "oh what's that you're reading?")

look forward to catching up with the thread and seeing how you're all doing, hope everyone's enjoying the lovely weather.

CrabbyBigBottom Thu 04-Jul-13 10:31:12

Bill what an utterly shit day. Hope you've woken up this morning feeling a lot better.

Must I hate to be the one to say this, but carrots are quite high carb and not allowed if you're following bootcamp rules (as written on spreadsheet of fabulousness). wink

Loopy sorry to hear that you're so worried at the moment. There's a good slow cooker recipe here with a link to a brilliant little slow cooker book. I defy your dd not to enjoy some of those. wink

Chipping I'm sorry you're finding it so hard. I guess it's always going to be a bit harder for you on this WOE because you don't have the easy sources of animal protein. That doesn't mean it can't be done though, so stick with it and tell your unsupportive specialist nurse to stick it up her bum!

I'm a happy Crabby this morning. I'm finally feeling emotionally 'normal' again after a couple of weeks of feeling flat, and I've lost another pound. smile That's last week's gain gone. I haven't lost significantly in the last few weeks (since winning the triple! grin) but I really want to show some weight loss this week so I can feel a sense of achievement for this bootcamp. So big push this week and I'm going to stick to plan as much as I possibly can on Saturday at the party.

Another minor victory here... I've finally weaned myself off sugar in my tea! I'd had it down at about a quarter of a teaspoon of agave nectar for ages, but couldn't quite enjoy it without, and whay-hey I've had two cups with none now and it's fine! smile

BillComptonstrousers Thu 04-Jul-13 10:50:03

Couple of questions, can we have milk? I don't drink it at all, but made broccoli and spinach egg muffins, ate two, then panicked about the milk grin

I really fancy something comforting for tea tomorrow. I was going to have sausages (black farmer) mashed swede and broccoli, but I need gravy, what can I have?

BillComptonstrousers Thu 04-Jul-13 10:51:44

And we'll done on the tea Crabby. I've just stopped drinking it because I just can't manage without a sugar in it. And tea means biscuits smile

BIWI Thu 04-Jul-13 10:58:48

Quick post from La Belle France - where we have a very intermittent wifi connection.

Chipping you have done brilliantly so far. It's perfectly normal to have times when your body doesn't do what you want it to though. But you know that.

Now would be the worst time to switch to another diet! I'm not that convinced by GI but I don't know that much about it.

Seems to me that you need some inspiration re recipes as much as anything - along with the support from all your low carb chums!!!

Stop worrying about that bloody nurse - she will find a way to be rude about you/to you whatever you do.

flowers for you - you can do it!

kiwigirl42 Thu 04-Jul-13 11:19:12

morning all! hope everyone is behaving themselves on this fine day!?

I weighed myself this morning and have only put on almost a kilo. I know it prob due to medication etc cause I've been very on plan this week but bloody hell!

The Ocado man is going to be staggering under the weight of vegetables when he arrives later. Never eaten so many veg in my life. Seem to be addicted to brocolli boiled very soft and stirred up with a bit of butter into a bit of a mush - its perfect with steak. I've discovered that rib steak is my favorite. Shame we can't get T-bone steaks anymore. They were delicious!

BlackAffronted Thu 04-Jul-13 11:55:15

Crabby, I am sure carrots are allowed, just in limited quantities? I have them a couple of times a week and use them in my homemade coleslaw too.

BlackAffronted Thu 04-Jul-13 11:58:10

Just made muffins & cookies with the kids (rainy summer holidays boo) and had one nibble of a muffin ... yuk. Didnt enjoy it, I only tried it because my daughter made them and would have been upset if I hadnt tasted them. Have hidden the rest of the muffin now, will dispose when she isnt looking.

FattyMcChubster Thu 04-Jul-13 12:11:38

Can anyone help?!
Really bad couple of days with dd, not slept last 2 nights and just generally feeling crap.
I know chocolate is not the answer and im desperately trying not to cave but the cravings are killing me! I don't want to eat anything because the thought of meat/eggs etc makes me want to vom.
I know I need to break this cycle and I want to lose the weight but sweet stuff has been my crutch for so long I'm really struggling today.
Sounds ridiculous I know but so close to just giving in.

Fatty could you try some yoghurt and berries? I find they go down easiest when I feel a bit sicky. If I'd had them in the house last week when I felt rough I might not have eaten my body weight in toast! blush

loopyloou Thu 04-Jul-13 12:20:20

Can I ask for some meal planning advice? I'm trying to keep the shopping bill down - to around £50 per week - but am struggling for lunches. Despite my wobble this week I need to get back on track and would like to eat as low carb as possible on a limited budget.

There are 3 of us. I've ordered mainly mince, chicken, gammon and fish (frozen to keep the cost down) and frozen veg. Eggs and bacon for breakfast. For lunch we have been having tuna mayo with salad, or ham or prawns, but that would push me way over budget. Ideally I need something I can take to work on the days I work and something that will fill up my dh. But cheap! I'm stuck ...

Leftovers doesn't really work as dh always eats them at dinner so there are no leftovers! I don't want to resort to sandwiches. hmm

Any ideas?

Thanks smile

StuntNun Thu 04-Jul-13 12:44:42

Loopy what about Tesco value chicken drumsticks and/or thighs. I brush them with melted butter with some salt and pepper in and roast them. They keep for a whole in the fridge so you could do a big batch.

kiwigirl42 Thu 04-Jul-13 13:16:19

I've just eaten some yogurt with 1 tbsp of Linwoods flaxseed, almonds and brazils as recommended by MollyMollyMolly

I thought it was expensive at £4.99 for 350g but it comes in quite a big bag. Its 1 carb for 2 tbsp but I started with 1 as flaxseed can sometimes apparently give you the trots.

I really liked it. Made the yogurt taste a bit biscuitty, like a cheesecake bottom. I'm going to mix yogurt and cream cheese with some lemon and make a cheesecake flavoured one next time.

I was surprised at how filling it was. It really made me feel full very quickly (much quicker than same amount of yogurt on its own)

there is a lot about flaxseed here. Almost choked when I got to the cyanide bit at the bottom grin but think I'll survive.

BlackAffronted Thu 04-Jul-13 13:58:12

Fatty, do you have any double cream? whip it up til its thick & have with some berries smile

BlackAffronted Thu 04-Jul-13 14:00:55

Loopy, how about these tuna patties as a lunch option? We all love them here! jensfoodandphotos.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/tuna-patties.html

I also make soups for lunch. Courgette, broccoli & basil is lovely - jensfoodandphotos.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/broccoli-courgette-basil-soup.html

I also make a really simple soup using carrot, shallot, 1 courgette & celery. Its really tasty if you sweat the veg in butter for ages first.

BlackAffronted Thu 04-Jul-13 14:04:37

kiwi, do you live near an aldi? They do flaxseed for £1.99.

Loopy, here is another nice soup, you can use frozen leeks & broccolli to keep the costs down. I bought a bag of each for £1 a bag and it will make a lot of soup!

BlackAffronted Thu 04-Jul-13 14:04:59
BlackAffronted Thu 04-Jul-13 14:05:30

Leave out the potato from that last recipe, I always do.

loopyloou Thu 04-Jul-13 14:16:39

Thanks stunt and black for the suggestions. When I first started lowcarbing, I used to eat roast chicken drumsticks every day but got fed up of them after a while. However, I'll give them a try again. Also used to eat soup but found it not very filling without bread, however definitely one to try a couple of days a week.

loopyloou Thu 04-Jul-13 14:50:14

We're having gammon joint tonight, cooked in the slow cooker. Any ideas on what to do with the fat/crust? Before low carbing, I would brush honey on and sprinkle with mustard and put in the oven. Can I do this with just mustard and some salt?

MollyMollyMolly Thu 04-Jul-13 16:51:33

Fatty, rather than give in could you not just up your carbs a bit. Some people do go up to eighty grams a day . They lose slower but at least they never feel deprived. Then you can have the odd pie e of toast, couple of squares of dark 70% chocolate left to melt on the tongue. Peanut cookies using a jar of whole earth sugar free peanut butter and egg whites. Flaxseed and nut cereal. etc. grin

MollyMollyMolly Thu 04-Jul-13 16:54:01

If you do low carb rather than bootcamp when your on the verge of giving up, it can help you stay on track. I'm doing low carb rather than bootcamp but still losing smile

fatty don't do it - it is just the tiredness making you feel like that. If you can get a good nights sleep at all tonight you'll feel great again. For me when i really need a dry crunch I either have pork scratching a or make cheese crisps (get slices of lehedamer (sp?) or similar cut into squares/ rectangles we do about 4 cm squares ish and then put on baking parchment, sprinkling liberally with whatever you like (we do salt and chives here) then put in oven for about 15 mins. Keep an eye on them, you want them slightly brown but there is about 30 seconds between rubbery and burnt!!!

sammisatt Thu 04-Jul-13 18:07:38

Can anyone tell me how to cook pork belly strips? Should they be slow cooked then blasted with heat for crackling?

sammisatt Thu 04-Jul-13 18:19:38

Fatty: my favourite comforting low car b treatis to toast walnuts and hazelnuts, have with full fat Greek yoghurt, strawberries and toasted coconut ( you can get from holland and Barrett) don't give up! Have some low carb(ish)comfort food instead. Or how about ground almonds heated up with coconut milk topped with berries, nuts and cream?

kiwigirl42 Thu 04-Jul-13 18:32:46

samisatt I blast mine first for 20 - 30 min until crackled then slow cook rest of time

BlackAffronted Thu 04-Jul-13 19:00:15

I boil mine for 5 mins then fry in a hot frying pan.

BlackAffronted Thu 04-Jul-13 19:00:54

This is what I had for dinner www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/2586/sausage-and-root-veg-stovie minus the potato. It made a great family meal.

StuntNun Thu 04-Jul-13 19:20:50

Sammisatt Nigel Slater has a nice pork belly recipe.

B: strawberries, blueberries and Greek yoghurt
L: two burgers with a little bit of relish and a green salad
D: courgette bolognese

Ruprekt Thu 04-Jul-13 20:07:29

I had a bullet proof coffee for breakfast and then drank water water water all day! smilesmile

Dh made a fabulous dinner of sauteed celeriac with a prawn, chorizo and cream stew with sage. Really amazing. smile

NobodyPutsMyBabyInTheCorner Thu 04-Jul-13 20:14:31

Hi everyone! Sorry I haven't read through the entire thread I've been derailed!

Hi fatty- you're changing that soon right? Welcome smile I'm continuing to low carb into August and beyond so will be here to chat.

It's my TOM so when I weighed on Monday and STS I was a bit gutted. On Tuesday evening I had some Haribos...
Wednesday I started out well but then are a bowl of ice cream, bar of chocolate and a milkshake! Today I had yogurt and a chicken salad for dinner but fell off of the wagon at lunch and had some biscuits, hot chocolate and a sandwich!!

I'm so dissapointed with myself and am now hardcore low carbing until Monday to try to get a half accurate reading on the scales. I've gained 6lbs sad.

loopyloou Thu 04-Jul-13 20:33:49

Nobody I've had a similar day. Had the best intentions. TOM almost for me too and struggling anyway. Did ok til mid afternoon when DH suggested pancakes and I couldn't resist. Only had 3 little ones but then after dinner had half a small Aldi bar of dark chocolate with marzipan filling. Having friends over tonight so will have a glass of wine.

Tomorrow onwards and upwards ...!

BerylStreep Thu 04-Jul-13 21:05:26

Folks, hang on in there.

Try having lots of water? Maybe some chromium to stabilise the blood sugars?

BerylStreep Thu 04-Jul-13 22:34:13

Chipping I had a very nice vegan curry tonight:

1/4 jar of Bluedragon red thai curry paste (or blend your own spices if you are virtuous)
Carton of coconut cream (not coconut milk, as it is too high in carbs)
large aubergine, sliced into quarters lengthways, then finely sliced
large handful of basil leaves
Packet of shiratake noodles (if you haven't had these before, they are amazing, and zero carb!)

Fry off the curry paste in some coconut oil for a couple of minutes. Add the coconut cream, then add the aubergine. Cover, and allow it to simmer - I did it for about 30 minutes, but the longer the better - the aubergine breaks down and becomes really thick.

Open and drain the shiratake noodles. Add them to the pan, mix around, then add the basil.

It was absolutely delicious!

In terms of carbs:
1/4 jar paste 7g
Carton of coconut cream 4.5g
Aubergine - based on a .5kg one - 14g
Noodles - 0g
Basil - negligable

Total 25.5g for the entire dish, which is easily 4 portions, even more if you add 2 packets of noodles. So about 6.5g carb per portion and as well as delicious, it was very filling.

Negroni Thu 04-Jul-13 22:42:42

Just checking in. Have had a couple of days of eating lots, sticking to low carb but just a lot of food so now trying to drink lots and maybe have a couple of days of less halloumi cheese, cream, not quite so many pork scratchings blush .

Sorry to hear about all of you having a hard time and tempted to eat biscuits! Don't blame you frankly! BUT agree with Beryl, hang in there if you can. Just made a version of the fat flush water with grapefruit, mint and fizzy water - was delicious and a real help in encouraging me to drink lots.

NobodyPutsMyBabyInTheCorner Thu 04-Jul-13 22:49:53

Thanks negroni and beryl.
Loopy- I'm glad I'm not the only one.

I really was feeling so fantastic, I didn't need to snack and was even reminding myself to eat. In extremely determined to get back into the swing of things.

Sugar is a dirty habit!

NobodyPutsMyBabyInTheCorner Thu 04-Jul-13 22:50:33

I'm* stupid phone

CrabbyBigBottom Thu 04-Jul-13 23:22:18

Black carrots are 6g carb per 100g, I thought we were supposed to stick to 3% and under for our allowed veg? I was fantasising about swede and carrot mash last week so I'm angry if I could have had it all along! grin

Beryl those choccies look absolutely gorgeous and a really good photo. I bought some almond butter so I think I'm going to have a go at a version of them for the weekend. Then at least I can have a puddingy thing that isn't too much of a disaster. SIL is making her lovely almond cake and is bound to be offended if I don't have any. Not sure what to do there.

Food yesterday
B/L - a big plateful of mozzarella, parmesan, parma ham, tomatoes, olives and alioli.
That saw me all the way through to dinner before I was hungry again
D - chicken and prawn stirfry with pak choi, broccoli, mushrooms, shallot, courgette noodles and egg.

B/L - leftover stirfry
D - cauliflower cheese with leeks, mushrooms and 5 cheeses. It was cheesetastic! grin
S - yoghurt icecream with extra flaxseed and clotted cream

Loopy you said you never have leftovers left for lunches. I deliberately make double quantities on lots of dishes so that we have them two days running or there's enough left over for lunch. The flavour of a lot of slow cooked stuff develops so that it tastes even better the day after.

BerylStreep Thu 04-Jul-13 23:55:05

Another almost vegan recipe for Chipping. Noodles with aubergine and chilli sauce with coriander & chilli pesto.

For the noodles:
2 medium aubergines, diced
2 cloves garlic - chopped
2tsp cumin seeds
1 red chilli - deseeded & finely sliced
50g pine nuts, toasted
50g sultanas (OK, not really low carb, but they really add to the dish - perhaps a compromise of 15g?)
2 packets shiratake noodles
6 tbs chopped coriander
rind & juice of 1 lemon

Cook aubergine in a pan with olive oil for 10 minutes, until golden, stirring occasionally.
Add garlic, cumin & chilli and cook for another 5 minutes.
Season, then add pine nuts & sultanas (if using).
Drain noodles and add to mixture, along with lemon and coriander.
Serve with coriander pesto drizzled over it.

For the Pesto:
40g pine nuts
40g grated vegetarian parmesan or similar
1 clove garlic
1 red chilli - deseeded & chopped
1/2 tsp salt.

Whizz in a blender until smooth, then add

60g fresh coriander - keep whizzing, and slowly drizzle 4tbs olive oil.

I defy you not to fall in love with this dish. Adapted from BBC Vegetarian magazine, 1999.

BerylStreep Fri 05-Jul-13 00:00:29

Shiratake noodles These will change your life. grin

thekitchenfairy Fri 05-Jul-13 06:49:32

Hello everyone

Willie I think I may be too late... But if not can you pop me back on the spreadsheet please?

Back from holidays, tried to be as LC as possible .. Managed to avoid the bread, the sugar and the snacks, so the gain is all down to wine... And delicious Spanish tomatoes!

Weighing in at 140... Oh dear. Nearly back to where I started.

Suggestions and tips for the best way to get quickly on the wagon when a hot weekend of wine and picnics loom please! Ie only been home a few days, knackered and struggling!

BlackAffronted Fri 05-Jul-13 08:18:07

Rup, I need that recipe! Sounds amazing. I love chorizo.

Those who are struggling with sweet cravings, especially around TOTM, have you tried taking chromium? It is supposed to help with sugar cravings and stabilise insulin. Ive just ordered some on Ebay, £2.79 free postage for 60 tablets!

BlackAffronted Fri 05-Jul-13 08:23:11

Ah, Beryl sugested the chromium already grin

Crabby, we should stick to the 3g or less as much as possible, but we are allowed limited amounts of everything on the list ... so I believe? Its how I have always done it! If I have a veg that is over 3g, I will stick to the less veg for the rest of the day etc. So I wont have carrots AND peppers, if you get me? But I do allow myself a bit of one or the other.

kitchenfairy, hope you had a fab holiday!! I find getting back on this woe so hard, so make sure you have lots of LC snacks as your cravings will be back, lots of water and plan your meals so you are never left hungry & wondering what to eat - thats my biggest downfall. Im sure you will be dropping lbs in no time.

maidofmess Fri 05-Jul-13 08:37:15

Hi all
Catching up on thread - posting on phone on bus so forgive weird spellings...
Loopy - sorry you're having a hard time of it, and Chipping with trying to do this without eating meat (I wd find that so tough, so think you've done amazingly well to average out at a lb a week down (?) sorry not to mention others but hard to scroll up and down on phone!
Well, apart from gin last night (typical I couldn't last the whole week alcohol free), hv managed to stick to bootcamp foodwise so fingers crossed should be back at my lowest bootcamp weight by Monday if I can keep it going over the weekend. Will try to plan meals this am and make sure I hv favourites in so I don't go astray (have managed to not eat DD2's batch of Rocky Road whose sugary smell wafts out every time I open the fridge door. Summer fair tomorrow with cake stalls. Wimbledon excitement with DH no doing on pimms and wine, then family over. Like a low carb obstacle course....
Good luck staying on track all for Monday weigh in. WE CAN DO IT!!!!!

Ruprekt Fri 05-Jul-13 09:32:29

Cream cheese and almond pancakes for breakfast. smile

NewStartNewStory Fri 05-Jul-13 09:35:08

I got lectured on my weight loss by someone who knows and had to deal with my past relationship to food. it derailed me a little bit. I didn't expect it either so really threw me. They were happy about the fact i am eating but it put a fear into me. Suitably sorted my brain out and back on track but did fall off the wagon for a few days. trying very hard to remember that i am eating, that i am being healthy and that any weight loss is simply a side effect of a new healthier relationship to food. hard though.

BlackAffronted Fri 05-Jul-13 09:49:34

Newstart, am I right in thinking you have had/have an eating disorder? sad that you got a lecture. Hopefully they were trying to be nice, but as long as you are eating to your appetite, you know you are being healthy.

NewStartNewStory Fri 05-Jul-13 09:57:17

Yeah they were just concerned that I seemed to have lost a lot of weight that I wasn't eating again. The lecture was due to concern but it threw me. But I haven't seen them for nearly two months so it would seem a lot weight if you hadn't seen it gradually iyswim. I also got told not to try to be a stupidly small weight (which is a fair comment on past history) I am not. I am trying to build a good relationship with food. Hence why weight loss doesn't really bother me. I want to be under 70kg (11stone) but not really under 10stone (63kg). Unfortunately those who did not know me in my youth do not know that i have a slim build naturally and that i carry weight really well. So it will be necessary to expect reactions like this when seeing people who have only known me post ds/ex with the food issues. Will be fine. I know that there is just a concern behind it but as long as I know, and the doc knows i am eating ok then it doesn't really matter as long as I am healthy. They did say I was looking incredibly healthy which was interesting as I felt like rubbish hmmgrin

kiwigirl42 Fri 05-Jul-13 10:28:02

well done newstart I am 45 and still get lectures like that from my Mum due to issues in teen years (and this is over the phone when I only mention weight loss!).
I really feel healthier eating this way. Definitely eat properly rather than picking at crap all the time

daisychicken Fri 05-Jul-13 10:46:07

I get the same from my DM and I've never had food/weight issues..... bear in mind she barely eats or only has a piece of fruit and regulary suffers from low sugar issues.... and she's obsessed with getting me to eat cake or chocolate(!) I've learned to keep my mouth shut and if I've lost weight/gained weight and she asks, I just say "no, still the same' (!)

B: yog and berries and piece cheese
L: don't know... have got avocado... confused
D: peppered steak with green veggies and creamy mushroom sauce (have been drooling over this planned tea ALL week!)

So sorry that you've been put under extra pressure New - by someone who I guess was meaning well, but obviously should keep their mouth shut unless they can do listening to you instead of lecturing you!

CrabbyBigBottom Fri 05-Jul-13 14:33:44

New sounds like she meant well and it was said in good heart, but a bit tactless nonetheless! Don't let it bother you - YOU know you're doing the best thing for your health at the moment.

Another half a lb off for me this morning. smile smile

B - a chunk of manchego
L - big plateful of mozzarella, manchego, tomatoes, olives and the garlic-fest alioli. What with the sweating in the heat (garlic is excreted through the skin as well as the breath) I'm sure I smell well fragrant. hmm I have to pity any poor person I have to lean over if I get called out. I've cleaned my teeth but still! blush blush grin

D - will be black farmer sausages (has anyone been to the website... he is black, hence calling himself the black farmer. I thought that was quite clever grin ) with celeriac mash, roast shallots and roasted broccoli.
I shall be doing my best to stay of the wine this evening, although a small glass of red with dinner may occur.

Remember to drink extra water in this heat everyone - we'll be losing more in sweat.

Happy Friday!

MustTidyUpMustTidyUp Fri 05-Jul-13 15:54:54

I weighed myself this morning and am 4lb lighter than I was on Sunday morning! I can assure you all that at this is actually a miracle and I have not had that sort if quick loss since I started dieting nearly 2 years ago. I am sure changing from CC to LC has done this. So I am 4 lb off my target (or 7 lb off my don't think I'll ever get there but I'd like to weight).

captainmummy Fri 05-Jul-13 16:12:46

Told you, musttidyup! It works, it really does and it's delicious at the same time.

BillComptonstrousers Fri 05-Jul-13 18:09:52

I'm onto my third week, is 29g of carbs too high for one day?

MustTidyUpMustTidyUp Fri 05-Jul-13 18:57:31

Am I supposed to be actually counting my carbs?

BillComptonstrousers Fri 05-Jul-13 19:01:03

I was just looking at my carb intake on my fitness pal, it's higher than some other days so I was just wondering

NewStartNewStory Fri 05-Jul-13 19:09:11

Musttidy if you are sticking to the rules you don't need to count your carbs

bill a lot of the carbs and other values on mfp are wrong/inaccurate. Stick to the rules and you will be fine.

Although I am sure others will come along and explain it all better soon.

StuntNun Fri 05-Jul-13 19:45:25

I have been very good today so I expect to see a loss tomorrow, do you hear me scales?!

B: strawberries and Greek yoghurt
L: McDonalds grilled chicken salad
D: roast chicken thighs with buttered broccoli and mushrooms fried in butter

Does anyone have any tips for surviving staying with other people. My SIL knows I'm low carbing but there are bound to be unavoidable carbs and I'm worried about getting enough fat. I was thinking about packing my suitcase with almonds, pork crackling and Peperamis.

I am going out tomorrow night, so I will be drinking smile and sad
I have a plan but I'm so worried I'm just gonna go 'fuck it' and eat chips and drink beer sad sad
We're going to Burger and Lobster. They only sell Burgers and Lobster with fries and salad that's all that's on the menu! So I'm going to ask for Lobster and double salad instead on chips and hope it fill me up! I think a dessert is included in the price too so I'll just have to be strong and decline even though I've paid for it, grumblegrumble I have to stick to rum and soda someone pass me the willpower pleeeeease!

Jesus Christ. Typo city! I previewed that twice as well ... Tired...

Stunt, I think just taking some of your own food is the way to go tbh. Its a difficult woe to get your head round if you aren't familiar with it and I expect SIL will try and accommodate you but get it wrong! That's my experience anyway!

NobodyPutsMyBabyInTheCorner Fri 05-Jul-13 20:18:24

Hi everyone thanks for your tips on how to stop cravings. It's still my Tom but I've been extremely good today and just stepped in the scales to have lost 7lbs in one day?!

I think I should lay of weighing in until its the end of TOM hmm

nappyaddict Fri 05-Jul-13 20:34:04

decaffwithcream Do Lidl still sell the pork and spring onion sausages? I went today and found pork and apple, cumberland, lincolnshire, chipolatas but couldn't find pork and spring onion. Do they sell them in the fridges or the freezers?

MustTidyUpMustTidyUp Fri 05-Jul-13 21:45:57

How many glasses of wine will it take to take me out of ketosis? blush sad

milliemoomay Sat 06-Jul-13 08:55:23

bulletwithbutterflywings sounds like a good plan... double salad is always a winner!

Sadly I've sts the whole week despite rushing around like a headless chicken and doing lots of intense vinyasa flow yoga. I know I'm not eating much so maybe its having a reverse effect??!!

I'm going to spend the weekend cooking LC meals (in between working, watching tennis, and not spending money as saving for big summer holiday!).

StuntNun Sat 06-Jul-13 09:43:10

MustTidyUp there is approximately 4g carbs in a glass of wine
(depending on the strength of the wine) and you should be under 50g a day to stay in ketosis. So it really depends on how much carbs your getting from other sources. But afaik the issue with wine is that alcohol is a ready source of fuel which your body will use in preference to your fat stores so that's why wine drinking can interfere with weight loss, rather than its carb content.

MustTidyUpMustTidyUp Sat 06-Jul-13 10:54:27

Thanks stuntnun. I had three glasses so not too awful. lush in fact
Was good the rest of the day.

Ruprekt Sat 06-Jul-13 12:17:29

Went out last night for a concert of Re-Take That with some girls from work.

FORTUNATELY I ate salmon with courgette spaghetti and salad before I went as the food included in the ticket was a carb fest!!,angry

Sausage rolls
Pizza confusedconfusedconfused

I peeled a sausage roll, ate the middle of a sandwich, drank one can Pimms and 3 litres of water!! smilesmilesmilesmile

Very pleased with myself.

daisychicken Sat 06-Jul-13 12:26:05

nappy I've never seen pork and spring onion sausages at our lidl.. I end up buying the pork sausages (pk of 6 in plastic tray with cling film & cardboard sleeve) at 1.7gc per 100g. I know black farmer is lower carbs but price is higher AND I have to make a journey to a different supermarket(!)

I've got Jamie's 15 min meal book from the library - lots of yummy meals that I think could easily be made low carb - just remove the rice in some cases or add a salad/veg and remove the carb portion in others. His pasta recipes are yum and I can quite happily see me eating the sauces with courgette "pasta". Am going to experiment with a few of his recipes over the next few weeks.

Tonight though its a BBQ! I've sausages and beef kebabs along with a Jamie inspired salad (salad, cuc, toms, avocado, chilli, lime and yog). Haven't had breakfast but had rocket salad with ham and mayo plus homegrown strawberries in cream.

daisychicken Sat 06-Jul-13 12:33:51

Well done Ruprekt for staying strong last night! I know carby foods are "easier" for events, picnics etc but I do wish people would start to give a bit more choice - low carbers and coeliacs/wheat free people couldn't eat any of that and I bet dairy-free people would have struggled as well angry

daisychicken Sat 06-Jul-13 15:25:35

If I missed out the sugar (and swopped the kale for rocket as I haven't got any kale...) how low carb would this be? Perhaps need to reduce amount of strawberries or split between 4 instead of 2 servings? :

Strawberry Avocado Kale Salad with Bacon Poppyseed Dressing
A little twist of the original strawberry salad recipe gets you a kicked up amazing new version of the salad everyone loves! Try not to love this salad! I dare you!

yield: 2 SERVINGS prep time: 5 MINUTES cook time: 10 MINUTES total time: 15 MINUTES
6 cups baby kale {prewashed kind}
2 cups sliced strawberries
1 ripe avocado, sliced

for the dressing-
4 slices bacon
1/2 cup mayonnaise
2 tablespoons sugar
2 tablespoons white vinegar
1/2 teaspoon poppy seeds
salt & pepper, to taste

Place kale, strawberries and avocado into a large bowl and set aside.

For the dressing, cook bacon until crisp. Remove from pan and drain bacon on paper towels. Crumble into small pieces and whisk together with remaining ingredients. Drizzle over salad and serve.

(Link: www.laurenslatest.com)

SmellsLikeVosene Sat 06-Jul-13 16:37:04

Rup! I really need that chorizo & prawn recipe grin

StuntNun Sat 06-Jul-13 18:51:41

Are pinenuts allowed? Maybe I shouldn't ask as it's too late now. I thought they were a bit carby (13.6 g per 100 g) so I only used 50 g in the recipe and DH and I had half each so they accounted for 3.4 g of the total meal.

B: low carb sausages, bacon and mushrooms fried in butter
S: chicken leg and mini Peperami
D: Arabian-style lamb (lamb mince, onion, tomatoes, pinenuts and spices) with lettuce, cucumber and sour cream

I've had another wee drop on the scales today so I'm hopeful that by the weigh in on Monday I'll be 11-12 lb down and just back into a normal BMI in time for it all to go to pot on holiday.

kotinka Sat 06-Jul-13 19:24:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kotinka Sat 06-Jul-13 19:25:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Negroni Sat 06-Jul-13 22:19:08

Just had major chips and alcohol fail! I should know that tipsyness leads to terrible food choices. Oh dear. Back on the wagon tomorrow!

BIWI Sat 06-Jul-13 23:35:09

Right chaps. I'm back now. <swishes big stick around>

How are we all doing?

Thank goodness you're back - I've just drunk a load of cider then despite being good food wise until very late in the evening are cake!!!!!! Oooops

BIWI Sat 06-Jul-13 23:50:43


So, I can see things will have to change around here ...

NewStartNewStory Sun 07-Jul-13 01:30:55

Oh thank fuck for that Biwi is back with her stick!

Quick hello from Death Valley! Hotter than a hot, hot,hot thing!

I didn't manage to check in before we left but wanted to say hi and bye for now. Thanks so much to BIWI and Willie. And to the rest if you! Given how horribly bloated I am feeling I willbe boot camping again as soon as holidays are done!

And BIWI I did W4R1 at 6am the day we flew!

kiwigirl42 Sun 07-Jul-13 06:51:40

Hi Cider - have a fabulous time!

I'm having a carby but primal day today as I don't often cheat but have really been wanting a treat this week and have been slipping. I've just had almond waffles for breakfast with yogurt and honey and I'm going to make some icecream later (using Lindt salted caramel chocolate).

Tomorrow I'm starting strict Bootcamp again so will see you all on the chat threads no doubt

I'm definitely sticking to a paleo/ primal lifestyle when I get my weight down. Such a clean, healthy way to eat (I feel)

kotinka Sun 07-Jul-13 09:39:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ruprekt Sun 07-Jul-13 10:55:41

Stop sucking up kotinka!!! grin

BIWI......Look at me!!!! <<twirls>>

Have lost 26lbs and am down to 170 from 196lbs! smile

(((((ignore the others......pick me! pick me!)))))))

kotinka Sun 07-Jul-13 12:29:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Well done Rup for your reserve!

I on the other had was good all day, then drank cider, then ate some cake! Had a good time though and back on the water with a vengence (which I clearly can't spell) today... thought about just having something not lc for breakfast, but didn't and now feel much better for it!

Now that the weather is getting hotter, just wanted to share that we make our own ice lollies - diet lemonade is nice, or mixed with a bit of (sugar free) blackcurrant squash. Obviously not bootcamp proper, but nice as a cooling treat on a hot day when everyone else has something from the freezer!

kiwigirl42 Sun 07-Jul-13 13:59:41

Hi BIWI - welcome back!

now everyone, get this. I've just made chocolate ice cream as decided I was going to have a treat day. I LOVE ice cream from our ice cream maker. Made it, froze it, tasted it and thought 'Meh!'!!!!! so didn't have any. Really shocked with myself and pleased my taste has changed so much. Had some sliced edam cheese and salami instead which was yum.

Ruprekt Sun 07-Jul-13 14:23:10

smile Thanks girls!

Just had coarse duck pate with sauteed spinach and an avocado.


BerylStreep Sun 07-Jul-13 16:52:02

Hi BIWI welcome back. Willie has been doing a great job in your absence.

How nice that this WOE means I could have strawberries and cream while watching Wimbledon on the telly. (And watching Andy Murray win yay!)

So massive thanks BIWI and Wille, without this low-carb bootcamp I would not have lost noticeable amounts of weight, found my waistline again, gained the confidence of feeling slimmer.... yada yada yada

Just wanted to say thank you!

Still long way to go but I'm on the right track.

Ruprekt Sun 07-Jul-13 20:52:57

Went out for dinner with the family to celebrate our ds2's marathon swim of 800m and had gammon with 2 fried eggs and salad. I turned down the chips and peas! smilesmilesmilesmile

Sparkling water to drink.

letsseeificandothis Sun 07-Jul-13 21:37:06

Am very happy bunny tonight. I can't remember the last time I was under 11 stone. Thank you very much, especially BIWI and Willie - I don't think I would have managed without everyone's input into these threads and the focus that the 10-week challenge gave me.

Some more to go, but it seems do-able, even if I did give in to a cake today. Thing was, after the first two bites I didn't really enjoy it.

The dc are not so happy. I threatened to wear a skimpy bikini on holiday to celebrate (am much too old for that, really) and their faces . . . grin

BIWI Mon 08-Jul-13 08:48:53

Never too old, letssee! I wore mine last summer for the first time in over a decade - and I'm 53!

BIWI Mon 08-Jul-13 08:53:25
couch25cakes Mon 08-Jul-13 09:48:37

FInal weigh in sees me at down 5 this week, so the 4 I put on last week and another one off. So I think that's 12.5lbs over 8 weeks smile
Thanks BIWI and Willie and all others who've given so much support.

kotinka Mon 08-Jul-13 14:53:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

loopyloou Mon 08-Jul-13 23:58:17

I haven't weighed myself because I've had a s**t week, eating all kinds of c**p. I don't know what to do to stop myself eating chocolate. I know it's bad for me, I get myself temporarily back on track and then after a week or so I just seem to "forget" why I was eating low carb. It doesn't seem important anymore and for whatever reason - stress, hormones, boredom - I start eating c**p again. I am the most pathetic, stupid person ever that I can't get to grips with this and I hate being addicted to sugar in this way. I've tried getting rid of all the crap but then my dh buys more, thinking he's doing me a favour. Or I buy some. I'm not blaming my dh, it's not his fault, he does it for me. It wouldn't help if I told him not to, because if I then changed my mind and asked him to buy chocolate, he would.

Mouseface Tue 16-Jul-13 22:10:44

Evening, tis me, Mouse

Can I please join? smile

<waves to Koti smile >

I need to keep a bit of a check on the carbs as once this summer ends, I will climb back into loaves of bread, by the dozen, baker's of course, but really.

So, I'd like to have some fail safe back up in place now, before it's too late and I get a stone heavier.

Is that okay?

Thank you in advance. xxx

Mouseface Tue 16-Jul-13 22:13:04

PS - I'm going to bed now so will see if I've got a gym pass in the morning.

Night all smile xxx

CrabbyBigBottom Tue 16-Jul-13 23:12:41

Mouse I know you'll be very very welcome, but we're over HERE now on the ongoing chat thread. Come join us there and meet the fabulous BIWI who keeps us all in check with her big stick. ;-)

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