Paleo and primal

(1000 Posts)
Daughteroughter Wed 27-Mar-13 01:28:43

I have been reading about paleo and primal diets has anyone tried them?

teaandthorazine Wed 27-Mar-13 09:40:41

I am currently in the process of switching over to a primal WOE from standard low-carb. I really like primal eating as it think it gives a bit more freedom than simple low-carb, though I still try to ensure I'm keeping my carbs low, have cut grains completely and I don't eat a lot of fruit etcetc. Now I just have to get my head around primal exercise!

I think there's so much sense behind a primal WOE. I've never brought into the low-fat, high-carb myth - it just seemed counter-intuitive to me but I couldn't put my finger on why. But when I started reading about primal eating it all clicked into place! I feel as if I'm giving my body the food it wants now.

What have you been reading? Am addicted to Mark's Daily Apple -probably for the photos of Malibu beaches and sunshine as much as anything grin

snoworneahva Wed 27-Mar-13 12:55:46

I'm moving from low carb to primal too. It is mostly a grain free diet, with a focus on being lower carb but no restriction on veg or fruit, you can still have honey and maple syrup....amount of allowed carbs is lower if you need to lose weight. I think the primal approach is pretty sensible - get 80% of your diet right and don't worry too much about the 20%. You can get bogged down in the whole what's Paleo and what's not, some of the Paleo community are very controlling disciplined, I do what suits me and my family.

Daughteroughter Wed 27-Mar-13 22:02:53

Hi have bought primal blue prints and have Eat like a dinosaur. I agree it makes sense and am transitioning ds onto it which has really helped him. It clearly a big thing in US and Australia but hasn't taken off here. I wonder why that is

snoworneahva Wed 27-Mar-13 22:37:59

The Brits love their carbs and are convinced they are the backbone of good health, who am I to argue? Let them eat cake! grin

teaandthorazine Thu 28-Mar-13 08:43:31

I think, proportionally, primal/paleo (or something like it) is probably almost as popular here as in the US - it's just there are so many more of them grin. Blimey, lots of 'p' there...

But yes, given that we Brits are usually so good at being cynical about govt. guidelines, it's interesting how we cling to the high-fibre, low-fat, carb- and sugar-heavy diet that's been prescribed for so long. Even though it clearly doesn't work! I think health is the one thing we're pretty bad at taking personal responsibility for - we expect the govt./the NHS to sort it out for us and just take what they say as read.

And, you know, it's tough to go against the conventional wisdom we've been fed for decades now - calories in = calories out, eat less, move more etc. People are very emotionally invested in what they choose to eat and don't take kindly to suggestions that maybe eating 3 Muller Lights and a curly wurly every day might not be optimal for health and sustainable weightloss, even if you have counted every calorie and fat gram...

I could go on and on and on about this, but I won't... I think you've made a very sensible and sustainable choice in going primal and I very much doubt you'll regret it!

We've been eating primal for a few months now and the benefits really are significant. A lot of the low carb stuff such as the stuff that's on some MNet threads misses the point IMHO. I'm more interested in a high-quality way of eating than a restrictive diet that is all about losing weight.

Part of what I like about Mark Sisson's approach is that it's about a wider lifestyle although the primary emphasis is on food. It's about sorting out a diet and way of life that works for you. I thought today's post summed it up well.

Also I haven't enjoyed food so much for years!

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 28-Mar-13 20:33:50

Was low carb for about 5 years before moving to paleo/primal/lchf a couple of years ago - the grain free thing has been great for my health.

Read robbwolf.com and thedietdoctor .com blogs are free, and very good!

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 28-Mar-13 22:01:24

Queening whatever, agree totally - while I started low carb for weight loss, moving to paleo has been about improving health and that has become my focus and goal- weight loss continues, at a slower rate, but I am down to the last bit now, pounds to lose now, not stones!

Most people are not ready to embrace fat/animal protein as health foods and I have given up trying to explain that no, actually grain foods are not great for you, that fructose added to proccesed foods is giving us fatty liver disease etc but I do think there is a change happening because it is so much easier to buy paleo things such as raw coconut oil, raw nut butters, grain free seed bars, grain free fruit and nut bars and similar products (ok, mostly over the Internet not in real shops)!

If these products are more available now, that's great new because it means more people are buying and using them grin.

Daughteroughter Thu 28-Mar-13 22:12:35

Haved exited this weekend going to get on the paleo wagon

buildingmycorestrength Wed 03-Apr-13 07:55:51

I'm interested in this but think I would have trouble. Am low carb for now (well, yesterday!) and want to try the paleo approach.

I guess this is what you call marking my place?

Xenia Wed 03-Apr-13 08:42:34

It is how I eat.
The site paleohacks questions and answers can be useful too for anyone looking into it.
Paleo does not mean no carb for many people by the way.

buildingmycorestrength Wed 03-Apr-13 09:20:31

Are you Xenia of $1000/day fame (a thread for entrepreneurs, for anyone else listening!) I admire your general attitude enormously so this is interesting!

And yes, my brother eats paleo and has sweet potatoes, for instance.

RawCoconutMacaroon Wed 03-Apr-13 09:43:37

Buildingmycore- out of interest, why do you think you would have trouble eating paleo?

buildingmycorestrength Wed 03-Apr-13 10:41:43

I just find it very hard to prioritise thinking about food at all, and my husband is very wedded to his junky food. So it feels like an emotional and logistical battle to eat differently to the rest of the family, even though I actually like that sort of food. Have done okay today and yesterday though.

teaandthorazine Wed 03-Apr-13 11:13:16

My dp eats a lot of crap too, and my ds is a pasta fiend. But that doesn't mean that I/we can't eat primal pretty easily. Tonight, for example, we're having burgers with cheese and bacon, maybe done with some mushrooms too, and a big salad including including avocado etcetc. When I first made this, dp complained about 'no bun, no chips' but once he'd eaten it he realised how filling and delicious it was anyway! And now is quite happy to forgo pasta etc when I cook. If he then wants to eat a tube of Pringles afterwards, that's his lookout hmm

The worst thing is the guilt I feel for not being a bit stricter with ds wrt pasta/sugar etc!

I love primal - who wouldn't be happy eating this way?!

RawCoconutMacaroon Wed 03-Apr-13 11:14:16

"Wedded to junk food" seems like a good reason to stop eating it! (Addictive nature of it, etc). IMO and IME, as a huge (literally huge) junk addict, those with the biggest excuses as to why they can't stop eating carby grain foods have the biggest intolerance/addiction issues!

I agree, hard to eat differently to the rest of the family but if you chose to eat paleo, I bet you can get your family to eat that way without actually realising there is anything missing off their plate.

My dh and I have successfully done this with our 3 teens - they are now CHOOSING to eat this way because they have realised that when they eat grain carbs they feel sluggish and ill.

Roast meat with veg and sweet potato... Grain free, additive free, home cooked, no one would think there was anything missing from that meal, or feel in anyway deprived to be served that!

There are plenty of "normal" paleo meals - I tend to serve the teens a bit more sweet potato, carrot, onion than myself, as they are slim, and very active, where as I am still losing weight and not so active therefore I need to watch carb levels.

You are right though, paleo is not about low carb, it is about cuttibg out the damaging carbs and finding the right level of carb for the individual, according to their metabolic state and activity level. The basic rule would be, if you are significantly overweight, you are metabolically disordered and therefore do need to cut carbs right down to lose that weight, and when at a normal weight, you can increase carbs to find the level you can cope with.

RawCoconutMacaroon Wed 03-Apr-13 11:20:14

Yes Tea, exactly what you said in your post of 11.13!

We can only encourage, and if they feel the better for it, they will make that decision for them selves. DS's and Dh tend to go for gluten free carbs when they snack now, so popcorn or rice based, which is a big step on the right direction.

BedHanger Wed 03-Apr-13 15:26:28

Following this with interest.

DH and I are planning on doing Whole30 with our 2.5yo DS1 (DS2 only four weeks old and ebf so already paleo wink. I'm an overweight carb addict, DH is a crossfit fanatic with terrible excema and DS1 has tummy issues, so I believe we'd all benefit hugely.

Going to be very tough, though. Addict's a mild term for my love of carbs!

RawCoconutMacaroon Wed 03-Apr-13 18:44:27

Been there Bedhanger! The first few days are tough, you may feel ill, headachy and weak - honestly though, once your blood sugar Stabilises you won't crave the carbs, if you do you probably need to cut carbs back to a low level at least for a few weeks!

I couldn't believe how fast the cravings and food obsession vanished.

RawCoconutMacaroon Wed 03-Apr-13 18:49:47

Bedhanger- eczema and tummy trouble are both good reasons to completely ditch grain foods (all grains including rice though many add that back to their diet after a few months), at least for a while to see if the symptoms resolve.
There is nothing in grains that you can't get (better) from other foods.

BedHanger Wed 03-Apr-13 21:32:35

Thank you Raw (sounds like a tasty recipe!). I'm nervous because I've tried to low carb on my own a couple of times and have ended up failing miserably and eating more carbs than before. But I think doing it as a family will help. It makes perfect sense to me; has done since reading Gary Taubes. I'm just so hopelessly addicted to sugar.

Xenia Wed 03-Apr-13 22:01:15

I would certainly recommend ditching sugar, but paleo does not mean no carbs. They are in all kinds of good foods.

3ismylot Thu 04-Apr-13 10:01:40

I have just started out on my primal journey, I did Cambridge diet for 2 weeks and lost a stone and got rid of the carb cravings and have just started week two of primal and cant believe the difference in my attitude towards food!

I haven't even considered a binge when before I was doing it daily blush and I have completely lost my sweet tooth cravings and haven't needed to snack once!

I can work an 11 hour shift as a waitress by having a BAB of bacon scrambled eggs and mushrooms about 8am and then a big chicken salad about 4pm and nothing else till breakfast without being hungry or feeling deprived!

I am slowly bringing the kids inline by making primal dinners and remove a few carbs at a time from their diet, it will take a while but I will get them there, this morning I made paleo pancakes for breakfast and tgey all said the prefer them to daddy's pancakes (normal ones) and last night I did roast chicken with roasted sweet potato and stirfryed cabbage and bacon and they cleared their plates more than a normal roast so am starting to win.

I feel amazing eating this way and am starting to love food I would never have eaten before grin

teaandthorazine Thu 04-Apr-13 10:06:50

<<I feel amazing eating this way and am starting to love food I would never have eaten before>>

Amazing, isn't it? And the family do come on board in the end. Last night ds ate samphire grin

I've rediscovered a love of cooking, and actually crave veg now...

3ismylot Thu 04-Apr-13 10:15:30

It really is.

I am loving cooking again too, tonights dinner is courgette 'spaghetti' in homemade tomato sauce with leftover roast chicken smile and tomorrow we are having pork apple and bacon burgers with buttered leeks and greens.

I have already meal planned for next week too and am looking forward to every single meal grin

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 04-Apr-13 12:59:47

Ooooo samphire! Love it with mixed fish, mushroom and leaks shoved in the oven with butter/raw coconut oil and a handful of herbs.

Xenia makes a good point, paleo is not of itself "low carb" but it should be fewer carbs than the typical modern western diet which is extremely carb heavy... But for those loosing rather than maintaining weight, low carb or very low carb at least initially will deal with the metabolic and appetite issues faster.

HighJinx Thu 04-Apr-13 13:11:09

I eat paleo and love it. I feel better, sleep better and lots of niggling aches and pains have gone too.

I was nervous at first and planned lots of snacks as I thought I would be hungry but I haven't been. On the rare occasions that I have processed foods now they taste horrible so it makes it even easier to say no.

I have tried loads of diets etc and this is definitely the best one for me but I think that's the secret - to find what suits you.

You can also follow Paleo as strictly as you want but I have found it a bit addictive.

If you do go for it then I would advise you to try lots of different recipes or it soon gets dull and repetitive. There are loads of great blogs out there so no need to buy a cookbook or anything.

This is one of my favourites everydaypaleo.com/

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 04-Apr-13 13:22:11

Bedhanger, if you tried low carb and ended up eating MORE carbs, you need to thing about your fat and protein intake - increase protein and make sure you are getting enough fat! Also - did you cut out grains? Some (many) people have a real problem with grain foods and appetite (various paleo/primal blog sites will tell you the science of why, if you want to know. Robbwolf.com, thedietdoctor, marksdailyapple etc).

IME, although I low carbed and lost a lot of weight, it wasn't until I stopped eating grains that I really got on top of the cravings, my bread/cake cravings/binges were legendary, I had no control if I had any sad!

EMUZ Thu 04-Apr-13 13:32:49

I am Paleo/primal. Started properly in January. I do circuits and weight training alongside and am roughly 9kg down after 3 months
I love it grin

BedHanger Thu 04-Apr-13 13:35:56

Tbh I think the problem for me is psychological rather then physiological. I have a history of bulimia, which did screw up my metabolism royally, but more than that, meant I became reliant on food to help me manage my emotions. That's what I'm struggling to overcome.
I'm tired, stressed, whatever - I eat crap. It's such a strong association for me.

EMUZ Thu 04-Apr-13 14:17:05

I'm an emotional eater but more the other way - I don't eat when I'm tired or stressed. And if I'm busy I eat crap
I guess changing has helped me see food = fuel and I think more now about "right I haven't eaten enough protein/veg" and I eat what's good for me rather than what I feel like (because otherwise I would live off pizza and cake with icing) grin

mrsXsweet Thu 04-Apr-13 14:55:07

I have been reading up on this way of eating and am really keen to make the change. I am currently 3 stone over my desired weight, and a stone over my pre-pregnancy weight (baby is 3 months old).
I have been trying to low carb (to lose the initial weight) since Saturday and think I am doing ok. I'm struggling to stop drinking squash and eat ketchup though!
My dh is being is typically unsupportive self ( he is lucky in that he is slim and manages to lose weight quickly if he needs to) and thinks this is another one of my fads- I am notorious for trying any old quick fix! But I really belief that this way of eating could be long term.

buildingmycorestrength Thu 04-Apr-13 14:55:37

I'm doing really well ...day 3. Have not ditched dairy and had a couple of rice cakes yesterday but unbelievable lack of cravings! What is going on? smile.

teaandthorazine Thu 04-Apr-13 15:27:55

Good innit, building? grin

I still eat dairy. I know paleo doesn't support dairy but primal does as long as you can digest it without problems. I have pretty much cut out milk but still eat cheese, cream and of course BUTTER! I don't think it's necessary to give it up, but be mindful of whether you can eat it without issues.

The rice cakes should probably be kicked to the curb though wink

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 04-Apr-13 15:48:49

Tea, paleo does, for many people, include butter and cream, and even milk (for those who tolerate milk), but preferably RAW, or at least from pasture fed (grass not grains) animals. It is easy to get raw cheese, not so easy to get raw butter or milk.

Mostly, it is advised to cut out dairy initially for a few months before trying butter and cream.

Even my paleo hero robb " the paleo solution" wolf has (some) cream in his coffee as a morning treat (no cheese or milk as far as I know).

teaandthorazine Thu 04-Apr-13 15:59:10

Ahhhh, interesting, Raw. It gets confusing sometimes! I must admit cheese is the one thing I really couldn't live without -grains, sugar, meh. Can manage. But cheese? <swoons>

Posterofapombear Thu 04-Apr-13 16:07:39

I just finished the Whole30 which I really enjoyed. I foolishly ate some crap over Easter and I feel awful. Back on paleo now and I'm going to think carefully about 'off roaring in the future!

my Whole30
* lost 7lbs
* stopped all my joint pain
*no more insomnia
* no more mouth ulcers
* no more crazy mood swings
* clear skin/ lovely hair
* less lethargic

grin

Posterofapombear Thu 04-Apr-13 16:08:12

Ahem 'off roading' not roaring!

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 04-Apr-13 16:50:11

I love a bit of cheese too, sadly the lovely strong stuff is a migraine trigger for me (due to the natural high tyramine content), so I can only have it in small amounts sad.

20g is great on my burger stack tho' - steak burger served topped with a thick slice of onion fried in butter, then cheese and some herbs on top, finished under the grill to melt the cheese... With mixed salad leaves! That was our dinner last night (plus sweet potato for the teens). <drool>

Actually its probably a good thing I have to limit my cheese as I could probably eat far to much of it shock!

teaandthorazine Thu 04-Apr-13 17:03:14

I think roaring is entirely in keeping with primal living pombear!

Raw, those burgers sound fab. Am having moussaka tonight (made with a cheesy/egg topping, can't wait!

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 04-Apr-13 17:24:38

Mmmmm moussaka! smile

snoworneahva Thu 04-Apr-13 17:27:23

I'm currently on a carb crash - on holidays and finding food that's tasty is hard enough without thinking of further complications, coming back to primal - with wine, tiny bit of milk for coffee and the odd chunk of raw cheese - it tastes better anyway! And I've found some paleo sweet treats for the dcs that are just about acceptable. Have made a pretty good gluten free loaf too....the journey continues. I'm getting testing for gluten intolerance next week so the whole carb crash fits in well, you can't give up grains before the test or it won't work.

Rulesgirl Fri 05-Apr-13 02:37:40

I love the very popular blog paleomg.com/......she has amazing food and daily recipies and lots of puds too. Yummy. I too try and eat low carbish but not Atkins etc cause I disagree with all the rubbish bars and stuff using artificial sweetners but would like to eat more paleo/primal as its just more naturally healthy isn't it smile

Rulesgirl Fri 05-Apr-13 02:50:50

paleomg.com/
hope this link works

snoworneahva Fri 05-Apr-13 07:13:12

Rules girl I love paleoomg too, also love Healthbent - she was a pastry chef before getting into crossfit and paleo, she has some great ideas.

Xenia Fri 05-Apr-13 07:39:14

There is a lot of choice as indeed our ancestors had a lot of choice in most places as to what they ate. I am not in favour of recipes for "cakes" or biscuits made with ingredients to make them "paleo" but that's just my personal preference. I would rather have a piece of fish. I feel a bit like I do about diet drinks . You are better off changing the kinds of foods you eat rather than buying "paleo products" (which in a sense defeats the purpose) or making paleo cakes. It certainly gives you scope however to find what suits you best.

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 05-Apr-13 07:55:53

Yes^^ this.

Paleo cakes, treats, etc should be exactly that- a treat, occasional, not a part of every day eating.

For me, yes I will make grain free cake for a birthday, or big event, but no cake, bread, cracker substitutes for "everyday" because these things are higher gi and I do make them with raw honey - great stuff and certainly paleo/primal but the "natural" way to eat honey is to gorge on it occasionally iykwim! grin! ie when you find a hive of bees - treats need to be treats (and I say that as a former complete sugar/carb addict). Otherwise it messes with your metabolic responses (and causes weight problems).

For that reason I'm "against" all this very fake (look at the ingredient lists, shocking!), wheat free bread etc - it's not real food and actually isn't great even for the coeliacs its marketed at!

snoworneahva Fri 05-Apr-13 08:18:10

The thing I dislike about paleo is how overbearing people can be about sticking to pure paleo. We all know what it is, we all make our choices, most of us don't need a lecture about what we eat. If you don't wish to eat paleo cakes - good for you, you are more paleo than me - I think you could even get the t shirt available on mail order. I would like to eat healthier but I am not a drone, I don't wish my diet to be 100% paleo, if I can stick to 80% that will be good enough for me and my family, we all have a balance to achieve - perfection in diet, sounds a bit obsessive especially around kids.

teaandthorazine Fri 05-Apr-13 08:47:28

Agreed snow. It's a guide for good health and eating, not a historical re-enactment society smile

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 05-Apr-13 08:58:25

Errr - overbearing? Hardly, 100% paleo? (Whatever that is, anyway!)? No, but I try to be, 95 % of the time and I am not a drone, or I would be doing what I was told and basing my woe on "healthy grains and low fat everything"!

I am trying to point people - anyone who wants to know more- in the direction of blogs/ info that looks at the science of why, in metabolic terms, a more natural way of eating is less damaging to our organs and metabolic pathways than than our current modern diet ( the modern diet really isn't working!).

Now maybe that's my problem, I'm a scientist by training and love to read the "why's"... I think the "why" is very important. But nobody has to listen to anything I say, or anyone else says, it's all just a suggestion, take it or leave it.

Personally, I'm coming from the angle of someone who has done this woe for a long time, lost over 6 stones and gained a lot of health smile. I want other people to archive the same - if the CHOOSE to try this woe grin.

<not overbearing, passionate!>

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 05-Apr-13 09:04:21

*achieve, obviously!

buildingmycorestrength Fri 05-Apr-13 09:32:24

I AM LOSING WEIGHT!

I use the Libra weight tracking app and weigh myself daily to get a trend reading.

Let's just say this is working.grin grin. grin

teaandthorazine Fri 05-Apr-13 09:45:00

It's horses for courses. People come to paleo/primal for different reasons and with different goals in mind. I think it's hard not to be passionate about the WOE/lifestyle actually, but I also understand what snow is saying - go on some of the forums and you see people arguing the toss over the most insane details. Sometimes it seems that they've just replaced one kind of disordered eating for another...

But I think it's fab to have a little primal community here, so... yay!

And well done building!

Rulesgirl Fri 05-Apr-13 13:16:25

Im with you on that snow . We have to eat what suits us and what we are happy with. If some of us were to become too obsessive about being completely Paleo/Primal we would probably end up binging and gorging late at night in front of the fridge with just the fridge light for company. IYSWIM he he he! If you are really into Paleo and can live that way completely without ever going off course and never giving in to desires for off Paleo foods then that is great. For me it would feel too much like a strict diet with forbidden foods and I would naturally rebel.

Rulesgirl Fri 05-Apr-13 13:22:00

WOW Rawcoco you lost 6 Stone. Well done you. Can I ask how long it took and what you ate on an average day please, if you don't mind. That is really good.

Do you all think I could eat primal while bfing? I loved eating that way before I got pregnant but was scared off it while pregnant (and couldn't face meat for fine months).
Now I am desperate to eat for sustained energy and get past the carb crashes, and preferably lose some baby weight.
Is there a risk of ketones in near milk do you think?

Rulesgirl Fri 05-Apr-13 13:43:57

Well Im not an expert but you could just start to change your diet rather than go completely Primal. But even on Primal you can eat beans and potatoes, dark chocolate etc so no reason to be into ketosis I don't think. Just eat more of the higher carb veg but keep off the grains and sugar. www.marksdailyapple.com/nursing-primal-blueprint-diet/#axzz2PalyPsmT. Hope this link works.

buildingmycorestrength Fri 05-Apr-13 13:44:23

I know Slimming World zealots, Rosemary Conley evangelists, and Atkins fiends. People are naturally enthusiastic about what works for them. Paleo too.

You just have to not be put off by it. I used to be really easily dissuaded by people with an overly technical and perfectionist approach... this isn't easy for me and I hate feeling like I'm 'doing it wrong'...but now I kind of think that all I can do is what works for me, and not worry about what anyone else says.

mrsXsweet Fri 05-Apr-13 13:56:12

So I have been eating this way for a week now and lost 6lbs, yay!
I am finding I am less hungry and for the last couple of days have not had breakfast but instead had an early lunch. Today though I slipped up and we were in town and I was getting hungrier and hungrier, I did'n't buy anything in town but have now got a craving for chocolate even though I have had lunch. I have tried dark chocolate but it has not got rid of my desire for dairy milk and I have to go to the supermarket now, any suggestions of how to resist buying some?
My dd also wants to make biscuits today, she is gluten free anyway but we use dove's farm flour blend so that is going to be another obstacle for me to overcome later!

buildingmycorestrength Fri 05-Apr-13 14:09:33

Eat a high protein snack before you go? Or a piece of fruit or some dried mango? Buy a nakd bar when you get there? Don't go hungry, pretty sure that is not necessary...?

snoworneahva Fri 05-Apr-13 14:09:55

It's what I like about mark sissons approach - more relaxed, he discourages perfectionism, encourages adventures in mind and spirit, not dogma. When approach to diet starts feeling like a religion I for opt out - religious evangelists annoy the bejesus out of me - as do dietary evangelists. I am passionate about feeding my kids well, what you feed your kids on is none of my business.
At the minute we are holidaying in a developing country where salmonella, typhoid and rubies is rife - wheat and sugar are the least of our concerns when choosing a meal in a restaurant. Eating paleo would be a nightmare, nevermind losing out on tasting all the safer food options on the menu. We eat intend to eat paleo where we can, but we don't freak when the kids eat haribos or pizza occasionally and I'd rather they have a paleo friendly cake than a kitkat on a daily basis - they are skinny waifs, nutrient density is important for the dcs - not weight control...appreciate others may have different goals and therefore their diet reflects that - no need for us all to take the same road. Love the idea of our own wee paleo corner.

mrsXsweet Fri 05-Apr-13 14:12:40

Thank u building, I didn't know I could eat naked bars, I think that is the way forward! I'm not hungry just got the words 'dairy milk' going round and round my head. Fingers crossed I will resist.

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 05-Apr-13 14:15:40

Rules- 7 years total low carb, paleo for the last couple. As you'd expect, most weight was lost in the first couple of years, but the Health benefits really kicked in within days of going properly paleo (ditching the grains), for me they are a huge problem, and for many other people too. I really didn't realise the extent of it until I stopped eating them.

I eat lots of - meat, fish, poultry, non starchy veg and leaves and herbs. Coconut, coconut milk.

Some nuts, seed and dried fruits, very dark choc, grain free alcohol, butter, cheese, cream, sweet potato. Raw honey.
I would eat egg, but I am allergic to
the yolk!

I roast, casserole, stirfry, curry - normal food really just a bit different, from scratch as I know exactly what is in it.

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 05-Apr-13 14:22:03

Black current- I have been pregnant, and bf while eating this way- DS appears none the worse for that, and I have read at least one research paper that showed the nutrient content of bm improved on a paleo diet containing no grains!

However! I did eat a bit more starchy veg during this time, its what I seemed to need at that point, so I wouldn't have been in ketosis.

teaandthorazine Fri 05-Apr-13 14:24:14

blackcurrants - I see no reason whatsoever why you shouldn't adopt paleo/primal eating again. You don't have to be in ketosis anyway to get the health/weight benefits. Our ancestors breastfed on a primal diet after all - probably a far more restrictive/potentially ketogenic one than ours too! Stay off the refined sugar/grains and processed carbs, stick to fresh, whole foods, you'll be absolutely fine... as will your baby smile

TheYamiOfYolk Fri 05-Apr-13 14:46:25

Hello paleo folks! It's nice to dee a thread. I discovered Mark Sissons a couple of years ago and I liked the theory, but it didn't do much for me in practice. However I did a Whole 30 in January and it was amazing; I felt so much happier and more comfortable with my body even before the physical changes kicked in. I did the email support programme which cost just under a tenner and was worth every penny many times over.

For BedHanger in particular, but women in general, I recommend the Paleo for Women blog which deals a lot with body image, hormones and learning to accept yourself.

TheYamiOfYolk Fri 05-Apr-13 14:53:07

Oh, and regarding the paleo perfectionism, primal didn't work for me because it was too easy to sneak in cheaty foods. I now aim for strict Whole 30 style primal, which means that when I cheat it's with stuff that is allowed on primal. I've had a week off paleo for Easter (festive food plus illness plus school holidays lead to a grain-filled cupboard) but I'm really looking forward to going back to eating normally (i.e. Paleo) from Monday.

I think that some people are fine on primal, but while I'm ok with carbs and high-fat dairy, grains and sugars send my moods all over the place and I can't do moderation.

buildingmycorestrength Fri 05-Apr-13 14:59:34

Mrs I don't think nakd bars are strictly paleo as they have oats (I am a newbie and don't really know the ins and outs) but better than a dairy milk, right?

mrsXsweet Fri 05-Apr-13 15:01:53

I didn't buy dairy milk!

teaandthorazine Fri 05-Apr-13 15:21:00

Well done MrsXsweet! Anyway, a couple of weeks of good quality dark choc and you won't be able to stomach dairy milk anyway! My dp eats it like it's going out of fashion and I just find it so sickly and tasteless now - it's like chewing on plastic... give me hotel chocolat 85% anyday...

Xenia Fri 05-Apr-13 15:23:18

I wouldn't buy a bar of anything as it's not natural. I think for me why this works is it is simply a normal way to eat. The fact most of the popular stuff themselves with things that are not real food like crispy creme donuts does not mean they have a right to say that if I eat fish, veg, meat, berries that I am weird or unusual. I eat real normal foods mankind ate for 2 million years and it is a bit unfair when people suggest it is faddy to eat what mankind always has eaten. It is the 18 stone bun guzzlers who are the aberrant disordered ones surely.

snoworneahva Fri 05-Apr-13 15:27:41

yami you are right, all our bodies react differently to foods, some people don't tolerate dairy, grain free alcohol or sugar very well, while others seem fine - our bodies all seem to react differently. I love how mark sissons focuses on fitness, de-stressing, sleep. There's so much more to a healthy life than just what you eat.
While on holiday, we haven't been able to eat paleo but we have walked at least 10 miles every day and kept up with our circuits.

knitknack Fri 05-Apr-13 15:27:46

We eat like this too (despite being told it was 'faddy' on another thread!). I've never felt better, or calmer, than when I'm doing this WOE...

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 05-Apr-13 15:32:52

Re naked bars - there are two types, in confusingly similar packaging! One type is dates and nuts, the other type also has oats.

Volare Fri 05-Apr-13 15:37:48

I've been meaning to try this for a while but like blackcurrants am also bf. feeling reassured and ready to go now, but have a couple of Qs:

Why are grains bad?
Why is cream ok but not milk?
What's your fave primal breakfast/snack/meal?
Can I still have coffee? Please god say yes.

Volare Fri 05-Apr-13 15:40:52

Oh, and is it alright for 2yo DC?

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 05-Apr-13 16:00:17

Xenia, I was literally an 18 stone bun guzzler shock! Not anymore tho smile.

Yy to what you are saying but people have to find their own way to this- most don't want to and IRL, I find people who ASK me about my weight loss are quite aggressive in their dismissal of grain free eating. More than one person has asked if I was sure I didn't have cancer as I couldn't be eating all that fat otherwise!
I tend not to talk about it IRL unless asked directly about this woe by someone who wants to try it, but mostly people don't get past the "no grains" as they can't imagine not eating bread, cake, pasta.

You are a little harsh on the naked bars tho! The date and nut ones contain.... Mashed dates and chopped cashews, raw too and that's it! I find them a good emergency back up, always have one in my handbag, I might have one if out for coffee with a friend and they are having cake, an occasional treat only, but all bars are not equal, wink.

snoworneahva Fri 05-Apr-13 16:05:16

You can still feed kids carby veg - which is fine for active people who dont wish to lose fat. There are lots of blogs with parents going through the paleo journey with their kids. I'm on a phone ATM but you can google paleo parents, nomnom paleo, paleomom....there must be others. I think when you are doing paleo with kids you will probably encounter quite a few external challenges - childhood seems to be entertained closely with junk food. Even before I started a lower carb lifestyle I was determined to limit the artificial crap that gets peddled to kids, I succeeded easily till they hit school - after that eating became a peer reviewed activity. Feeding a child a variety of foods can be challenging enough, throw in dietary restrictions and peer pressure into the mix and you have to tread very carefully.

thanks for all the helpful replies!

I live overseas and so don't know what 'a whole 30' is - can someone link me to something definitive?

mrsXsweet Fri 05-Apr-13 16:21:09

Thank u raw, that is really helpful. I bought the ones with oats so will look out for the other ones next time. It is the first time in a week I have wanted a snack and it was my own fault for getting too hungry. I think it sounds like a good idea to keep a bar in my bag for emergencies.
Black currants I am new to this but liked reading nom nom paleo, I thought the other link might also be useful (never linked before so hope they work...)
http://onceamonthmom.com/whole30-a-new-beginning/

http://nomnompaleo.com/post/2982384246/whole30-day-by-day-updated-1-31-12-hey-i

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 05-Apr-13 16:21:22

Volare, some free blog sites to answer your questions! Robbwolf.com, thedietdoctor and marksdailyapple - these guys are all singing from the same hymn sheet, although there are little differences here and there. There are plenty of science links on these sites, if you want to read more deeply into the "why's".

Yes it's fine for babies/kids, my 2 year old is mostly paleo (I don't freak if he eats some cake once in a while at a party), but grains are not a daily part of his diet. He eats normal home made meals like roast chicken and veg so is hardly deprived. He also, (shock horror!), eats chocolate fairly often - a little bit of 85% choc is a marvellous thing!

Coffee? Hell yes, although some would say no!

Coffee,

mrsXsweet Fri 05-Apr-13 16:22:37
Volare Fri 05-Apr-13 19:13:26

Thanks raw. Will get a-googling, and have added lots of paleo ideas to Pinterest.

I'm not precious about dd being strictly paleo; more lazy and want her to eat what I'm eating without depriving her!

Dinner was grilled chicken and peppers, salad, rye bread (any better than white wraps?), bit of feta and I will now gorge on dark chocolate.

Rulesgirl Fri 05-Apr-13 19:51:55

I make my own Naked bars using my food processer then wrap them in cling film and fridge or freeze them. They taste just the same as the "Naked" bars you buy.

buildingmycorestrength Fri 05-Apr-13 20:00:25

Breakfast today-three eggs scrambled in coconut oil.
Snack - banana
Lunch - cheese, boiled egg, cucumber - kids had baguettes too. Bit of dark choc after.
Snacks - fruity bits... kiwi, apple, dessicated coconut
Dinner - Thai fish stew, green beans, broccoli. Kids and hubby had rice too.

Am excited that our Tesco shop full of fish and meat and veg is arriving later. Man, have not been excited by food in a looong time. No cravings, either...not thinking about food a lot, not feeling peckish as much, etc.

BedHanger Fri 05-Apr-13 20:13:28

Yami, thanks. Your experience really resonates with me. My unsuccessful previous attempts were low carb and I ended up spending ages looking for cheats and treats. Both times I had a little dark chocolate followed by a proper binge. Hence why we're now looking at doing a whole30 at first.

I've just downloaded the excellent looking nomnompaleo recipe app with its whole30 compliant 30 day plan. Looks great!

Rulesgirl now THAT is a recipe I want to know more about!
I love the Nakd bards but am too cheap to shell out for them. How do you get them to stick together?

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 05-Apr-13 20:25:12

Rules - do your naked bars freeze well? Interesting as they are expensive to buy.

Blackcurent- dates are sticky so no problem with holding them together - I use date, almond flour and almond pecans to make a raw chocolate cake base (sort of cheese cake style) for birthdays and the biggest problem is getting the dates mixed, my food processor just isn't up to the job, they are very stick and jam up into a bid lump!

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 05-Apr-13 20:35:50

Violare, well rye bread... Not really ok but it depends on what you mean by rye bread- a lot of "rye bread" is actually wheat bread made using the same modern methods as ordinary bread, with maybe 15% rye flour.

Otoh, proper traditional Sourdough (try a proper polish shop) or that strange black rye bread (pumpernickel?) would be better, though I wouldn't eat them myself.

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 05-Apr-13 20:37:49

Grrr, iPhone sabotaging my already awful spelling!

Rulesgirl Fri 05-Apr-13 20:42:32

lovinleaves.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/make-your-own-nakd-raw-bars/
www.includingcake.com/2011/09/chocolate-orange-smoosh-bar-aka-nakd.html
where they use oatflour or buckwheat I have substituted with almond flour but that's just me but it seems to work.

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 05-Apr-13 20:47:35

Thank yougrin!

Volare Fri 05-Apr-13 20:58:05

building Can I have the fish stew recipe, please?

this was my naughty rye bread Onwards and upwards! Need the paleo app linked upthread, methinks.

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 05-Apr-13 21:34:38

Ah yes volare, the strange dark stuff! Certainly a better bread by a long way, lovely short ingredient list and a good choice if you choose to eat some grains...

BUT - smile, <small voice> still grain!

Volare Fri 05-Apr-13 22:16:34

I know raw, but it is day one and am complete carb junkie. Lots to read tonight during the night feeds, and I'll soon be a hardcore cave girl who likes red wine and the occasional croissant.

buildingmycorestrength Fri 05-Apr-13 22:25:07

I put a load of fish (salmon, haddock, coley) in the slow cooker (frozen, I might add) with a tin of coconut milk, some of our homemade frozen chicken stock cubes, water to cover, and the following Thai herbs and spices: a couple of pieces of galangal, some kaffir lime leaves, some lemongrass. Think that's it.

Left it to cook for a few hours. A few minutes before serving I squeezed a couple of limes in. I think you can add chilli but I wanted the kids to eat it. Some people add Thai fish sauce but I don't fancy it. Will eat the rest of the broth as a soup tomorrow. It was lush! Can do same with chicken, I think. Once you have that collection of herbs and spices they last for ages. Well worth getting.

Forgot to actually PLACE my Tesco order so no delivery. Doofus.

buildingmycorestrength Fri 05-Apr-13 22:34:12

Meant to say that I have been thinking about paleo for aaaages. Could not manage it.

Then my brother just dropped casually into conversation that he'd read that wheat is an appetite stimulant.

It was like a lightbulb going on. Suddenly it all made sense. I stopped eating wheat as much as possible for about three days, but carried on with rice, oats, etc then it just sort of fell into place.

We'll see. It feels easy just now.

Rulesgirl Fri 05-Apr-13 22:35:29

Raw...sorry thought I had frozen a batch once but my daughter tells me that this is not the case. But we do keep them in the fridge for ages.

BedHanger Fri 05-Apr-13 22:49:48

Interesting, building.

Btw, how do you make your stock cubes? Your soup sounds delicious!

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 05-Apr-13 23:03:22

Volare, wine, pah! Hard core cave girls drink 100% agave tequila grin, or vodka, much more fun!

mrsXsweet Sat 06-Apr-13 09:39:02

Just made paleo pancakes for breakfast, had them with maple syrup ad raspberries, they were delicious.

buildingmycorestrength Sat 06-Apr-13 10:50:49

My son is allergic to nuts sad so I have to be really careful about them. I feel OK about nakd bars as there's no dust or bits, but I wouldn't cook with almonds or almond flour, for instance. Bit limiting so I'll work around.

Also, have been thinking I would like a couple more easy Asian slow cooker recipes that aren't too spicy ... am thinking of trying to buy the spices for pho...has anyone tried this?

Xenia Sat 06-Apr-13 15:19:54

I think for 2 million years it would only be rarely and only in season we would have found nuts so there is no need to make them a core part of any paleo diet. Avoid any bars, processed foods etc etc. Just eat the natural stuff.

teaandthorazine Sun 07-Apr-13 08:28:47

Well, my lunch yesterday (actually my only meal yesterday!) was pretty primal in that it was great big hunks of meat eaten with the hands grin. Went to Bodeans in Soho and shared a platter of amazing bbq meats with dp - he also had fries and onion rings but i didnt succumb!

Not sure palaeolithic peoples would've covered everything in BBQ sauce, though....but the principle was there!

buildingmycorestrength Sun 07-Apr-13 09:44:45

Not even dairy yesterday. What is happening to me? Weight still coming off.

I love feeling like I'm Arya in Clan of the Cave Bear...if anyone hasn't read it, it is a novel about Ice Age humans and Neanderthals that might inspire your pale eating. I actually want to go and look at the food in there again...mmmm....

TheYamiOfYolk Sun 07-Apr-13 13:15:37

I'm allergic to nuts, and it isn't a big deal at all. Almond flour/nut butter should only be an occasional thing, anyway. You can grind up sunflower seeds and use them instead of almond flour - I made some hot criss buns that way, but I generally only use maple syrup and paleo friendly flour type foods for very special occasions as they are cheating, really. My take on "treat foods" is that they are for feasts/festivals, so stuff like Christmas, birthdays etc.

mrsXsweet Sun 07-Apr-13 21:39:15

I fell at the first hurdle today. We went to friend's for lunch, it was lamb which I don't eat so they did me a vege Kiev (breaded and processed, fail number 1), I ate the roast potatoes (fail number 2), had ferero roche for pudding (fail number 3). I then thought screw it had a packet of buttons, 2 bags of hula hoops and a curly wurly for tea! I am a terrible cave woman.

I will need to sort it out tomorrow, I was really enjoying myself and I wasn't hungry so I hope I can find the motivation for tomorrow.

doctorhamster Mon 08-Apr-13 08:44:29

I've just read the thread with great interest. I've read the mark sissons book before but have to admit I found the whole concept so daunting that I put it on ebay as soon as I'd finished it!

I can't help thinking though that this way of eating would probably do me the world of good. I'm basically a 17 stone carb addicted binge eater blush

My current diet consists of bread, cereal, potatoes, cheese, pasta, biscuits, chocolate, in the main. We cook with chicken, mince and vegetables but always have carbs with it! It would feel like such an extreme change that I'm not sure I could do it!

I was thinking I could try to ease into it gradually, one meal at a time. Has anyone tried it that way? Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

buildingmycorestrength Mon 08-Apr-13 09:12:52

I did it gradually as I was daunted. I decided to try replacing all my wheat with other carbs for a few days. That worked. And then decided to try having just eggs scrambled in coconut oil for breakfast. That worked. It sort if snowballed from there. Haven't felt deprived once which is totally key for me.

Attackofthefiftyfootwoman Mon 08-Apr-13 09:18:18

yay a paleo thread!!! I tried to start one a while ago but had hardly any responses.

This WOE works for me, but I am still a novice! When I stick to it my acne clears and I feel amazing. My kids and dp are slowly starting to eat paleo dinners with me now..... slowly getting there!!!

Attackofthefiftyfootwoman Mon 08-Apr-13 09:19:29

fwiw i was a massive carb junkie i mean i had to have potatoes with EVERY meal grin i don't do that now and use lots of other yummy veggies instead.

Attackofthefiftyfootwoman Mon 08-Apr-13 09:21:34

sorry last post grin (can you tell I am excited about this thread?) I also really like the idea of exercising like a Cavewoman. still looking into it though.
I used to hours of cardio and it was boring the hell out of me. I like the idea of short bursts of intense workouts (think running away from an animal. climbing trees etc)

doctorhamster Mon 08-Apr-13 09:26:10

Thanks building, good to know that the gradual approach can work. I'm thinking of starting with breakfast before looking at lunch and dinner. Dinner is going to be a challenge because I'm a very lazy cook, particularly at that time of day!

Interesting about your acne attack. My skin is awful due to pcos so I'm really hoping a change in diet will help a bit. I'm 32 and have had a face full of spots since I was 12. Nothing the doctor can give me has helped for long.

Out of interest has anyone got pcos? im wondering if anyone's symptoms have been helped by eating paleo.

Attackofthefiftyfootwoman Mon 08-Apr-13 09:35:17

ii have suffered since I was 11 - its crap isn't it? I don't have pcos though.

My paleo journey started because of my skin. I was reading a lot about it because i was at the end of my tether. I started by quitting dairy and this got rid of the painful under the skin spots, but it was not a full solution. I was addicted to refined carbs, sugar etc, I put two and two together and stopped these and this got rid of the whiteheads and smaller spots.

I am still learning as I go but put it this way I had a few mini packets of haribo over Easter and you could see it on my face a few days later. [grrr]

Once I had cut out dairy and refined sugars paleo seemed like the obvious way to eat for me. When I stick to it my face is 95% clear.

buildingmycorestrength Mon 08-Apr-13 09:40:11

The slow cooker is your friend for dinner. Meat, veg, herbs, water, cook for 8 hours, serve. Yum.

Xenia Mon 08-Apr-13 09:47:12

I think most people change eating habits best by doing it gradually. Start with protein at breakfast - lots of eggs etc.

StuffezLaBouche Mon 08-Apr-13 09:57:28

18 stone bun guzzler checking in here!
Sme advice on a thread I started led me over here and I want to give it a try. I love cooking and cook from scratch every day, I even prepare my own game. So, out with the oil smeared roast spuds and in with the new.
When I do my next shop I want to know in advance what I'm going to be cooking, so I don't up the habitual junk. I'm trying to assimilate some lovely looking recipes, but would anyone be kind enough to suggest some staples - coconut oil seems to be one. Also, decent quality chicken breasts? Mussels?

Any suggestions very welcome.

RawCoconutMacaroon Mon 08-Apr-13 11:13:39

Doctorhamster, re pcos, don't have it myself but I know it is one of the "syndrome X" conditions (conditions caused or greatly worsened by our modern grain based diet), and many people respond well to paleo/primal. The crucial thing is to remove grains, all grains, but especially the gluten containing ones (wheat, barely rye), from your diet. Including as a trace ingredient which basically means cooking from scratch!

Get used to that for a few days/weeks then cut out other high gi carbs, if you don't want to go "cold turkey".

You will find many, many success stories on paleo/ primal blog sites if you google pcos and paleo. Unsurprisingly all the conditions caused by or associated with over consumption of carbohydrates and grains respond well to this woe! Obviously no diet will work for everyone but its worth a try for a few months to see if it works for you smile.

Just back from a week in Lanzarote which was lovely but am desperate to get back to paleo. I'm surprised at how keen I am as there was lots of fresh, affordable fish etc., but lots of carbs and not enough veggies for me. I feel very motivated to eat clean.

We've been eating this way since early January and did it gradually. For the first few weeks we were still having porridge for breakfast. Eating what I already had in the cupboard and just not replacing the grains etc. seemed to make sense - plus I can't abide wasting food although some pasta and porridge went to the local food bank.

With the PCOS, the woman who writes the Paleo for Women blog (just google it), has an e-book for paleo and PCOS, success rates seem to be high.

I love Mark Sisson's stuff as it's more pragmatic but also holistic with sleep, sunshine and stress reduction. And if you want any more motivation, just look at this woman on the beach. She's 55!!! It's not about weight or size, but I want to look and feel that happy and healthy.

doctorhamster Mon 08-Apr-13 12:31:13

Thanks so much for the pcos responses. I'm off to Google for a bit grin

My grocery shop for the week ahead has already been done and arrives this afternoon, so I'm going to spend this week doing some research and trying to put a couple of weeks worth of menus together. No doubt I will be back with more questions! Thanks for taking the time to reply to me.

buildingmycorestrength Mon 08-Apr-13 18:42:42

Am having headaches, despite making sure I keep up ,y water and caffeine intake...is this some kind of withdrawal?

I have a horrible fatigue condition so it is a little hard to tell if I'm tired from eating like this. If I'm hungry, I eat, so I'm not starving myself. I'm eating fruit if I feel like I need more sugar. And I'm ensuring I put oil and vinegar on salad to keep up the fat intake.

It could just be a headache. I don't feel like eating junk, particularly, though I do fancy a bit of toast. smile

BedHanger Mon 08-Apr-13 19:09:58

Google carb flu!

teaandthorazine Mon 08-Apr-13 19:19:34

It could well be 'carb flu', building. It will pass. Get an early night if you can, drink some water (or bouillon), take paracetamol if you need to.

How much caffeine are you having, though? Best not to overdo it...

buildingmycorestrength Mon 08-Apr-13 19:48:19

I avoided caffeine completely for years but need it now. Cup of black tea in the morning, square of dark choc and green tea after lunch. Not much. But I know not to skip it as I immediately get headaches.

And yep, carb flu sounds about right...

buildingmycorestrength Tue 09-Apr-13 19:42:53

Hey, eggs in coconut oil for breakfast, sweet potato and guacamole and salad for lunch, chicken stew, asparagus and broccoli for dinner.

Have not felt so totally satisfied by food for years. Felt a lot better this pm.

Xenia Tue 09-Apr-13 21:10:19

After a couple of weeks you don't tend to miss things, caffeine, processed foods. In fact they start to taste like the non food "poison" or fake food that they are.

Fanjita Tue 09-Apr-13 22:32:16

Please could you share your breakfasts with me? That's where I struggle.

FavadiCacao Wed 10-Apr-13 10:16:30

Breakfast- just another excuse to enjoy food in our household!
We are rather partial to a cooked breakfast and anything goes.
Fish (all especially if the skin is on as it makes lovely cracklings).
Instead of bacon we buy thinly cut pork.
Liver or kidneys (love mine cooked in the juice of an orange and some chives).
Eggs in any way (asparagus/celery/cucumber make wonderful soldiers).

Mushrooms and salads are probably the quickest of veg in the morning. Ds loves his fruit.

From a practical point of view if you are in a hurry eggs are probably the quickest but fish on its skin cooks pretty much on its own; and if you eat cheese: cheese,tomato and cucumber in lettuce wraps can be made in a flash. smile

thebestpossibletaste Wed 10-Apr-13 10:32:44

Marking my place too - been eating the Harcombe way for almost a year now and find it suits me well, clears my IBS up. I struggle as I'm still addicted to sugar and find it difficult to withstand temptation re carbs but have to keep reminding myself what happens if I eat them.

I'm now looking into Paleo/Primal as I would like to add a little fruit into my diet.

I have almost lost the weight I wanted to lose (just over half a stone to go - but everytime I give into carbs I lose the plot for a few weeks and put on half a stone again!).

marzipananimal Wed 10-Apr-13 10:54:05

I'm really interested in trying this, but don't you find it really expensive? Pasta, potatoes and bread are so cheap compared to meat, fish and veg.
How has it affected the cost of your weekly shop?

thebestpossibletaste Wed 10-Apr-13 11:41:16

Posterofapombear, what is the Whole30?

FavadiCacao Wed 10-Apr-13 11:55:04

It can certainly be expensive.
Also, it's nearly impossible to be a pure paleo/primal (at least in the UK) so compromises are unavoidable and a freezer is essential.

Here is how I try to cope.

I found a local farmer (9 yrs ago now) who sells privately: he rings a few weeks before the animals (Beef, lamb and pork) are ready for slaughter to see if we are in need. I would love to buy more from him but I don't have the freezer capability. Although the quantity is pretty fixed (ie, full lamb, half a pig,etc.) and I can't choose the cuts I want... I know I'll get a bit of everything- this way his prices remain competitive: more expensive than mince but similarly priced to cheaper cuts of meat in the supermarket.

A nearby orchard finds pheasant and rabbit populations have to be managed (sometimes wood pigeons too). They happily sell both fresh (when the right season) and frozen. Some country parks might also be amenable and in some parts of the country deer has to be controlled.

Supermarket fish choices are quite limited, so we go on trips to the coast and fishing lakes. This can reduce the price of fish significantly.

Fruit and vegetables are expensive and sometimes there is no choice but to go down the route of inorganic, non-local and frozen.
Every border in my garden has been replanted to be edible. It does not go far but it's lovely to see ds wonder in the garden to pick a plum or a berry. Fruit trees and bushes can be bought as miniature root stocks.

I'm also lucky to enjoy a few hens who are allowed to rule the garden!

Fanjita Wed 10-Apr-13 13:27:06

Thanks Favadi. I guess omelettes and leftovers from previous meals will probably be my breakfasts then. This morning I had a hard boiled egg, half of a salmon fillet leftover from last night, some cucumber and 3 cherry tomatoes. Lunch will be tomatoes, ham and avocado and tonight will be chilli with courgette on the side.

RawCoconutMacaroon Wed 10-Apr-13 14:38:11

Breakfasts - as a standby, I always have Parma ham in the fridge (keeps well, preserved using only salt), aldi does it for a good price. They have quite a few paleo friendly things at really good price actually, unprocessed nuts, freeze-dried tubs of herbs, and a decent passata that's just tomato and salt, all good for the store cupboard.

Parma ham and a handful of nuts or berry fruits makes a good instant no cook breakfast.

Increasingly, we just cook more in the evening and have cold cuts with a handful of leaves. Again no cooking, which is great for busy weekdays. Weekends, often do a cooked breakfast, pork loin, egg and tomato with mushroom or something similar.

Posterofapombear Wed 10-Apr-13 14:45:16

The whole30 is a really strict kickstart to eating paleo. It's online at the whole9 site and its free for the basic guide.

I really like it because I need rules! grin

RawCoconutMacaroon Wed 10-Apr-13 15:19:05

Expense of paleo- there are ways to keep that down, veg and fruit in season as much as possible, buy whole chicken and fish and joint yourself and freeze. Cow share (local farm shops may sell half or quarter cow, pig, sheep.

However!!! As Robb "paleo solution" Wolf says on his blog, yes, organic grass fed might be the "best" - if you can afford it, but compromising on that because you need to stick to a budget is not an excuse to give up, it's a reason to be sensible and just do the best you can within your budget.
A factory farmed chicken roast at home with non organic veg is still 10x better than buying a breaded, reformed chicken product full of additives and serving with a massive pile of carbs!

Xenia Wed 10-Apr-13 15:40:10

Unprocessed foods can be quite cheap. Carrots, sardines, tuna fish, eggs, nuts I do not really find particularly expensive. A roast chicken lasts a few days. Wholefoods and I only drink tap water I think are cheaper than most processed foods and eating out.

Attackofthefiftyfootwoman Wed 10-Apr-13 17:05:16

tried Samphire for the first ime last night - tis yummy!!

StuffezLaBouche Thu 11-Apr-13 07:44:36

Can I just sneak in to say I've only been doing paleo for four days, but I can actually notice two things already:

1) energy. I don't feel sluggish and lethargic - if I have to go upstairs I will jog up rather than lumber. (Jogging not a pretty sight for someone of my size but still)

2) my stomach has changed shape! Usually I would have a big evening meal laden with mashed potatoes or roasties and would wake up with a beach ball stomach. This morning when I looked in the mirror I can honestly see a difference. Still got loads of fat to burn, but that bloated look just wasn't there.

I feel great. So glad I was pointed this way.

teaandthorazine Thu 11-Apr-13 09:08:29

Am really glad it's working for you Stuffez smile I now notice a huge difference in my energy levels etc if I eat non-primal. Yesterday I went to lunch at a friends house and she had made soup and bread (homemade bread), quiche (!!) and TWO different cakes... Of course I had to eat what she'd cooked (only had one cake though!) - came home and promptly fell asleep on the sofa for an hour, feeling bloated and sick! It was such a huge contrast to how I've been feeling since starting primal.

Dinner was a pork chop, butternut mash, courgettes and spinach in butter - felt much better!

StuffezLaBouche Thu 11-Apr-13 09:21:56

Spinach is LOVELY, isn't it? I'm going into school today to shift some furniture around then out to lunch at this really nice Italian in the village. It won't even be a struggle avoiding the pizzas and garlic breads, just feeling so positive at the moment.
By the way, where do you get samphire from?

BedHanger Thu 11-Apr-13 09:37:48

They had some in Tesco the other week Stuffez. I found it quite tough, though - what's the best way to prepare it?

FavadiCacao Thu 11-Apr-13 14:30:16

The samphire I bought in Asda was more woody than the one from the Fishmonger (may due to Freshness?). I boil it first then add butter and if it's woody I strip it discarding the inside stalk . It's also yummy with a little olive oil, lemon juice and chilli.

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 11-Apr-13 17:31:04

Samphire - fantastic with fish. Tesco has it, sometimes. The

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 11-Apr-13 17:34:15

Whoops posted too soon! Quality/woodiness seems to vary with variety of samphire and the season. Sometimes almost the whole thing is non woody. You can kind of pull the softy bits off the woody stem before cooking fairly easily.

FavadiCacao Thu 11-Apr-13 19:05:56

You're right about the season, RawC. Dd was home for Easter, so we treated her to all that she can't buy or afford away from home, including a trip to a 'fishing' port. Almost no samphire made to the pan as it was so tender and not salty at all! smile

Is there a way to recognise the different variety?

Fiiiiishhhhh!!!!! That's dinner sorted! grin

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 11-Apr-13 22:39:17

I think that, short of climbing up sea cliffs ourselves to collect the stuff, we just have to go with what appears in the supermarket!

It's lovely done in the oven with several kinds of fish (ie white fish, salmon and a smoked. Fish, in chunks, rolled in coconut oil with leaks and samphire (plus pepper and any herbs you fancy), about 20 min at 180 in fan oven is about right. Yummy and healthy too!

marzipananimal Fri 12-Apr-13 18:07:39

Thanks for the tips, we're planning to buy a second freezer so can hopefully make cost savings with that.

I'm thinking of giving the Whole30 a go but I like the sound of a protein shake for breakfast when I'm in a hurry. Does anyone have a recipe? (Whole30 friendly or otherwise)

olrojo Sat 13-Apr-13 13:48:22

On the Whole30 testamonials there are a few people with PCOS helped by paleo

olrojo Sat 13-Apr-13 13:50:33

I love these kind of stories, they give me hope! Am hoping to start properly this week, will be watching this thread

teaandthorazine Sat 13-Apr-13 14:56:06

Ohhhh noooooo! I've succumbed to a Nakd bar (cocoa orange) and it was bloody lovely and now I want to buy a box of them [grrrr]

They are, technically, primal/paleo in that they are just fruit and nuts smushed up together (well, mine had a bit of cocoa in it) - right? Right?! I made sure I didn't buy the oaty ones.

Bloody high in carbs though - 18g per bar shock. That alone should ensure I don't eat too many of them! Was scrummy though.

Damn you, Tesco.

Am concentrating on dinner tonight - a sort of paella-y thing without the rice (!!) Fish, prawns and mussels with spices and tomato and veg. Hopefull delicious!

roguepixie Sat 13-Apr-13 15:53:29

Hello. Can I join this paleo community?

Am starting off eating this way as I have significant weight to lose and also particular health issues that indicate that this lifestyle is the one for me: - gluten intolerance, joint pain, asthma, excema, headaches etc etc etc shock.

Am going back to page one to read the thread. smile

Xenia Sat 13-Apr-13 16:52:46

I think if people can avoid bars of any kind that is better but no point in thinking things are derailed if you err and stray.

My second daughter brought home the article I had set out for the children by coinicidence just now. In today's Telegraph
www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/healthyeating/9987825/Sweet-poison-why-sugar-is-ruining-our-health.html
www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/healthyeating/9987977/How-to-kick-the-sugar-habit-tips-and-low-sugar-recipes.html

StuffezLaYoni Sat 13-Apr-13 17:28:12

Teaandthorazine, that sounds nice! I had similar recently - mussels, mushrooms, sugar snap peas, spinach and an onion just lightly fried together. Really filling. Mussels are definitely going on my shopping list from now on, they're really meaty and tasty and a frozen two quid bag has done me about six meals.

Can I ask what oil people use for cooking? I've been using proper butter and not a lot of it - I seem to have it ingrained in my head that butter = bad. Other oils I have at home are toasted sesame and olive infused with chilli.

StuffezLaYoni Sat 13-Apr-13 17:33:10

In fact, thinking about it, I feel like I've eaten some truly delicious food this week and I certainly don't feel deprived. I'm not sure I'm really doing the diet properly - my basic rules have been :
No rice
No bread
No pasta
No beans
Nothing processed.
I know that sounds quite restrictive and there will no doubt need to e some flexibility, particularly in social situations but I feel great at the moment.

StuffezLaYoni Sat 13-Apr-13 17:37:02

Oh and no potatoes!

RawCoconutMacaroon Sat 13-Apr-13 18:42:41

Stuffez, best cooking oils and fats are butter, coconut oil and olive (olive for lower temp cooking only), they should all be raw and cold pressed if at all possible.

Depending on where you live, coconut oil may not be available in the shops, but goodnessdirect or a similar online store sell it.

I think avacado oil is ok too but haven't tried it.

Oils to avoid - all the "normal" cooking oils such as sunflower, rapeseed, canola etc as all are subject to intense chemical and heat processing and also are too full of omega 6 oils, we need to eat a better balance of omega 3 to omega 6.

As per paleo/primal guidelines, the more natural and least processed fats and oils are the best choices smile

teaandthorazine Sat 13-Apr-13 18:51:27

Avocado oil is indeed fine, and I've just bought a big tub of ghee which in very much looking forward to experimenting with! Don't be afraid to use plenty of butter (organic if possible -apparently kerrygold is the best brand, paleo-wise).

Stuffez - I think your basics sound fine. It's not a diet though. right? wink No grains, no sugar, nothing processed. So glad you're feeling good on it!

Xenia Sat 13-Apr-13 19:36:15

And I would suggest lots of any kind of oils are not really needed. basic meat and fish and nuts have fats in them. For 2 million years it was unlikely our ancestors were cooking in pressed oils of any kind really.

StuffezLaYoni Sat 13-Apr-13 20:19:44

Oops, no, not a diet - a way of eating! smile
Thanks for the oil suggestions. There is a small Chinese supermarket about 100 yards from my house, I wonder if they will sell coconut oil. Happily, right next to there is the best independent green grocer ever, so cheap and gorgeous produce. I would be more than happy to give them my custom as opposed to Tesco.
i don't tend to use a lot of oil, just a bit for frying vegetables together.
On a happy note, I've just discovered a big bag of venison hidden in my freezer. Happy days!

RawCoconutMacaroon Sat 13-Apr-13 20:52:20

Indeed Xenia. They wouldn't have had frying pans for a start, to fry anything in!

However, adding an omega 3 rich oil to farmed meat may balance the ratio of 3 to 6, to somewhere close to what it should be.

Unless a persons budget stretches to buying only wild fish, game and completely grass fed, there is likely to be an over abundance of omega 6 in the fat of the meat they buy. I have a very large food budget (and realise I am very fortunate), but there is a limit to how far I can go wrt buying only grass fed/wild/game food... We are a family of 6 including 3 teens!

Raw Coconut oil is probably the best fat for adding in nutrition- it's pretty cool stuff, great for the brain, tasty straight off the spoon, good in lots of raw "cooking" recipes. Can be used as a moisturiser also!

Sadly, it is hardly a budget item at about £7 for the equivalent of a block of butter- so kerrygold grass fed butter would be the budget option!

I would advise anyone interested in this woe to get a slow cooker (or 2), as they are fantastic for cooking cheaper cuts of meat, making large batches of paleo chilli or sweet potato hash etc for the larger family or for batch cooking and freezing.

For those on a smaller food budget, I know there are a couple of paleo-on-a-budget cookbooks available.

MacaYoniAndCheese Sat 13-Apr-13 21:54:38

This sounds really interesting! I've recently gone through a nasty break-up with carbs; I thought it was forever sad. I hit mid-thirties and all of a sudden, they turned on me. If I eat pasta or pizza for dinner, I see it on my legs the next morning <wails>.

Luckily, I adore veggies so I can imagine lots of lovely lunches and dinners but what on earth do you eat for breakfast? Do I have to give up my porridge with nuts and fruit!?!

MacaYoniAndCheese Sat 13-Apr-13 21:57:44

RawCoconut Our Costco has big tubs of raw coconut oil that are a lot cheaper than the little jars I used to get from my health food store. Not sure if you have that in the UK, but might be worth a look.

teaandthorazine Sat 13-Apr-13 22:28:58

I I eat a big spoonful of coconut oil most mornings - it's delicious and keeps hunger at bay for hours, especially handy if you know paleo foods are going to be hard to come by when out and about

Wrt oils/snack bars etc - I'm afraid my take on the whole paleo/primal deal is that it's inspiration for natural healthy food that does my body good, not historical re-enactment. I do aim to eat produce, not products, but I also live in the 21st century and shop in supermarkets grin

RawCoconutMacaroon Sat 13-Apr-13 23:00:52

Macayoni, we have Costco here in Scotland, I think 3 in the whole country! Never seen coconut oil though I will look more closely next time I go. Locally, I have only seen it in one shop, and its cheaper online but I see more paleo/primal friendly foods appearing in the past year or so maybe this woe is starting to reach a critical mass here. <hopes>

RawCoconutMacaroon Sat 13-Apr-13 23:08:01

Breakfast... There's a few posts about breakfasts earlier in this thread, the main thing is ... Free you mind! Breakfast can be anything, it doesn't have to be "breakfast food".

The easiest thing for rushed mornings is just leftovers from the night before. A lot of people cook a bit extra by design, and that solves the breakfast problem.

You don't need to give up your porridge with fruits and nuts... Just the porridge! wink

Xenia Sun 14-Apr-13 07:53:28

RCM, yes. However in my view if British people simply moved from processed to non processed foods they would be more than half the way to a healthy diet and I would not want them put off eating better by thinking unless they can buy all kinds of special foods and organic products they are not "paleo" as it is such a broad term. Paleo can be your tinned tuna fish and greens which are not expensive and if they aren't organic that is not going to have a major impact on your health whereas giving up the bars, diet drinks, cakes and the like will do so.

Our local Waitrose I think has coconut oil - I opened the jar in the cupboard a few weeks ago and is smell of coconut (not surprisingly) so not used it yet. I do not think I use much oil anyway and I probably will at some point but it is like all oils quite manufactured and in a sense a kind of processed food so certainly not essential to use it although yes definitely better than many oils.

The traditional English breakfast has always been protein and veg - meats, eggs, kippers have a long tradition at English breakfasts, kidneys (I can't stand them), tomotaoes, mush rooms and then we decided in effect to poison the nation by making it move to a whole load of processed carbs. Even shreddies have sugar added, even the lower sugar cereals are very processed and would probably taste of cardboard if they did not have fake stuff added for taste.

LaVidaLoCarb Sun 14-Apr-13 08:05:44

Really interesting thread. Can someone explain the differences between paleo and primal for me please? Thanks.

3ismylot Sun 14-Apr-13 09:06:51

We have loads of costco stores in the uk was at mine yesterday stocking up on meats eggs raspberries veggies and maple syrup but couldn't find any coconut oil? Where abouts is it in your store as may have looked in the wrong place?

I got a bargain yesterday! Went to Holland and Barrett to get coconut flour and they had 5 bags left going ood end of April reduced to 1.40 a bag so I got all 5 for 7.00 (normally 6.79 per bag!!) It will last ages smile as best before date is just a guide.
Got a massive pack of chicken mini fillets at costco so gonna turn half of it into paleo chicken nuggets for the freezer ( the kids are eating quite a lot of paleo recipes but that should make it easier for them to cope lol)

Am doing pork fillet with chinese cabbage for dinner cant wait!

StuffezLaYoni Sun 14-Apr-13 09:07:11

For breakfast over the last week or so I've been having usually something egg based, so scrambled egg with a couple of spears of asparagus, or similar. Left overs is a good idea though, funny how we see some foods as not really "suitable" for breakfast. I've been off work all this week so won't have as much time in the morning from now on and will need something quick.
Sorry to bang on about how I'm feeling but I'm just in awe of how good I feel at the moment, it's like a cloud of stodge and heaviness has been lifted. Rather than wake up and feel like a sack of wet sand from the previous nights binges, I feel light and awake... It really is wonderful.

BedHanger Sun 14-Apr-13 09:18:09

LaVida, as I understand it, paleo is stricter that primal, and also primal focuses on the wider lifestyle (like getting sufficient sun and sleep). There seems to be a lot of crossover.

Me and DS (2.5) had apple and cold mackerel for breakfast. I also had tomato and avocado in olive oil. Quite satisfying!

We are off on holiday for a few days and the plan is to do a Whole30 when we return. I'm not much of a cook at the best of times and with a toddler and newborn I don't get much chance to cook atm! Understatement...

Anyway, I think that means we will be eating a lot of very simple meals, not many complicated salsas or baking etc!

RawCoconutMacaroon Sun 14-Apr-13 10:04:53

Xenia, you are right of course. Real food!
But probably the biggest single change as far a Health is concerned, even without adopting a paleo/primal woe, is if people would simply cut out gluten/gliadin containing foods (without replacing them with fake "gluten free" foods.

Firstly, there is the appetite increasing properties of grain proteins, but also the inflammatory and bowel damaging effects of a number of grain proteins (gluten is only one, and probably not even the worst!).
Also, as so many junk foods have wheat or gluten in, adopting a "no gluten" lifestyle will almost certainly be much healthier even if a paleo lifestyle as such is not adopted iykwim.

I have been tying to sell that idea to family and friends with some success, to people who have no intention of doing a full paleo woe.
I would say that is "paleo-lite", maybe a good starting point for healthier eating... grin.

Waitrose? Sadly my nearest one is 70miles away! By paleo friendly I don't mean manufactured fake foods, I just mean staple ingredients are now available in my local shops which weren't before - bags of nuts, seeds and dried foods with NO additives, sugar, gluten. Also a much wider range of olives in olive oil rather than "vegetable" oil, raw nut butters and so on. These basics were MUCH harder to find even a year ago locally (rural Scotland).

Otoh, we have lots of farm shops for good meat, local produce etc so its not all bad.

If anyone is interested in looking into why wheat is not great - wheatbelly blog is an interesting read, and free to use.

ISeeNoReasonForBandage Sun 14-Apr-13 10:23:22

Read this threadwith great interest. I've done low carb, but still have a stone to lose. Primal seems a really good long term WOE. I've looked at the daily apple website, but have one quick question; is coconut water allowed with primal eating? I've heard very good things about coconut water, and as coconut oil is allowed I wondered about coconut water, but is it too sweet?

FavadiCacao Sun 14-Apr-13 11:49:04

Coconut water is most definitely allowed. smile

For those craving moments, here are a couple of treats:

Coconut chocolate mousse
1)Put a can of coconut milk in the fridge. Once chilled (3/4 hrs), transfer the solid coconut mass- which will be a the top of the can (do not throw the liquid at the bottom)- into a foodproccessor.
2)add 50g (or more ) melted but cooled chocolate (I use 85%).
3)If a softer consistency is required add some of the retained liquid.
4) Enjoy (can be stored in the fridge)

Coconut and berry Ice-cream
Same as above but substitute chocolate with 3-400g of fresh or frozen berries. Using fresh berries might require 1 hr in the frezzer. Store in freezer.

To make it sweeter for guests I use 1/2 tsp of xylitol (Paleo,tooth friendly, low GI).

FavadiCacao Sun 14-Apr-13 11:53:42

Sorry!Missed a step between 2) and 3) blush
step 2 1/2) blend grin

Xenia Sun 14-Apr-13 12:18:16

Yes, RCM. I agree and it does not have to be complicated - just eat real food. if it were around 30,000 years ago it is likely to be the right thing to eat.

I am a big water drinker and being in the sun person - today is our first day warm enough to lie out with virtually nothing on without being too cot in lovely mid day sun. Vitamin D is best absorbed on skin without sun screen so in most of the UK you can do that for 20 minutes a day if it's possible where you are - costs nothing but a bit of time. Drinking water costs nothing either compared to smoothies, fresh juice, colas, diet drinks, alcohol etc. So think a lot of this is very very cheap to do and makes people feel good.

I once bought some coconut water (Waitrose) and didn't like it particularly but when we occasionally buy a real coconut and cut it open I always drink the juice in there.

FavadiCacao Sun 14-Apr-13 12:20:30

Teaandthorazine Choices when out can be very limited and 18g carbs is really not that much. When I first started Paleo I was losing weight eating around the 100g carb/day! Only when I reached a plateu, I started to reduce carbs further.

I reached my target last June/July, having lost 30kg and I have never counted a carb since! My weight has remained stable within a kg or so.

MacaYoniAndCheese Sun 14-Apr-13 16:36:10

I made an omelette this morning with asparagus, mushrooms and a little smoked cheddar (is that allowed?) and some strawberries. Very different from my usual but SO filling...and delicious.

snoworneahva Sun 14-Apr-13 18:14:56

I made pumpkin bread for the dcs this morning, big success!

Tried the naked bars - the gingerbread version was well received even by my nut hating dd. The orange and choc was a bit too bland....could do with some 85% cocoa IMO. I think I'd prefer to make my own anyway.

Sunday lunch was curried celeriac and coconut soup followed by trout in bacon with Savoy cabbage seasoned with garlic butter - dcs had potatoes too. Finished with strawberries and double cream and a spoonful of raw honey. And a little cheese. Dcs had some organic vanilla ice cream.

thebestpossibletaste Sun 14-Apr-13 18:30:05

Can I ask, do any of you encourage your children to eat in a similar way? I am worried by my DD's obvious sugar addiction and would like to try and cut out some sugar at least.
I'm not sure what to replace bread with though, it is a large part of her diet. She doesn't like eggs and that for breakfast, preferring toast. Dh and I have scrambled egg or bacon and eggs.

Xenia Sun 14-Apr-13 18:56:13

I certainly remember with our 3 older children we had a no sugar / sweets rules for a while which worked well. Now they are older. The ones at home are teenagers and they are interested in food and learn a lot on line and I want them all to form their own views and if they differ from mine that is fine too. I certainly encourage them and I don't buy what I regard as bad stuff but I don't stop them This weekend some were arguing with others about grapes just because grapes are high sugar and I said - I think it's great they eat all their grapes rather than chocolate.

I have always encouraged them all to have protein breakfasts - if delicious eggs are available every morning they don't all fall on cereal and breads with abandon and I always think with children example is so much better than orders. Most children ultimately follow what their parents do in all senses rather than say.

Small children cannot eat what isn't in the house so it is not that hard to force them into eating good stuff although I doubt most of them suffer from the odd slice of toast with their breakfast.

teaandthorazine Sun 14-Apr-13 18:57:26

I haven't cut bread or pasta out of ds's diet entirely, although he eats less of it than he used to, definitely. And he eats the same evening meal as I do - cba cooking twice! I have found this WOE good for getting him to try new foods and we don't have stuff like fizzy drinks, juice, cakes, crisps or biscuits in the house anyway.

Dinner tonight - roasted red peppers with Brie, garlic and basil, then bolognaise sauce served on a bed of buttered spring greens. And a glass or two of red wine...

thebestpossibletaste Sun 14-Apr-13 19:37:06

No, we don't have crisps or fizzy drinks in the house either, I sometimes bake a cake if we have visitors. Trying to stop buying biscuits and instead encourage fruit as a snack. We don't have cereal in either, but DD will have toast or tinned pasta/baked beans for breakfast and panini at school for lunch or sandwiches in her packed lunch and I can't think of an alternative she'd like.

Otherwise she's pretty good at eating cherry tomatoes and cucumber but doesn't like meat or fish much.

snoworneahva Sun 14-Apr-13 19:57:01

I think with dcs gradual changes in diet are best. Pick one thing at a time and work on making that change a lasting one. We were getting a lot of resistance from dd about the move from gluten based foods but after 2 weeks on holiday with relatively no dietary rules, the resistance has disappeared, it's bloody amazing! She ate Savoy cabbage dressed in herbed butter today and even admitted to liking it. Sometimes we all just need a break from rules so we can embrace them again with a fresh attitude.

ISeeNoReasonForBandage Sun 14-Apr-13 20:59:47

Thank you Favadi.

fruitnfibre Mon 15-Apr-13 10:34:20

I am very interetsed in this WOE for the health benefits.
I eats far too much carbs and feel tired and sluggish, sleep rubbish - will give anything a try to get some energy back and improve my sleep. (seen GP bloods ok so no problems with low iron)
Only thing is I don`t eat meat (just don`t like it) but I eat fish.
Is anyone else doing this woe and doesn`t eat meat?

Xenia Mon 15-Apr-13 10:46:50

I do eat meat but also lots of fish. I have salmon four times a week because I love it. I eat a lot of eggs. I love sea food. A pack of frozen still in their shells prawns or shrimps are good. Tinned muscles and tuna are nice too. Lots of veg of course. Paleo is not anti carb or no carb - most people need some carb to feel happy but it does not have to come from loads of bread.

fruitnfibre Mon 15-Apr-13 10:57:06

Thanks Xenia I have been looking at some of the web sites linked in this thread and there`s some good fish, egg & vegie ideas that would suit the whole family.
My downfall is breakfast cereals, all types unfortunately -I just love it :-(
I need to start the day with a protein based meal.
Todays planning tomorrow`s 1st day for feeling so much better ;-)

snoworneahva Mon 15-Apr-13 12:09:39

Breakfast this morning went well, dd is still on board...she had a slice of bacon and a fried egg and then 2 slices of the pumpkin bread I made yesterday. Ds had cream cheese pancakes with blueberry sauce.

Packed them off with a veg korma and brown rice and a banana nut muffin. Lunches are going to be more challenging fortunately they've never been too keen on sandwiches....maybe it's time to start thinking about portable salads.

Dh and I are fasting today, so nothing until dinner this evening when we'll have a chicken curry with cauli rice for dinner. The Dcs will have a piece of fried meat - probably chicken and a roasted carrot and avocado salad.

olrojo Mon 15-Apr-13 13:04:48

Rigt day 1 of paleo here goes.... Ive been an on/ off reader of mumsnet for years but never really posted ( worried i will spend all my time on here!) but I am going to be using this thread lots as I need to do this. I did two weeks sugar free back in feb which I liked but some how got distracted off it. I've read lots about doing a Whole30 but I think I'm going to do pretty close with a bit of dairy every now and again but trying to stay away from hard cheese. Right, here goes....

olrojo Mon 15-Apr-13 13:13:41

With regard to protein breakfast in going to try the porridge from Against All Grain blog. It's nuts whizzed up with banana and coconut milk. Sounds nice and hoping the kids will eat it too.

RawCoconutMacaroon Mon 15-Apr-13 13:46:10

Kids and paleo/primal woe- yes, why not as these are the foods "wild" children would have eaten.

With our 3 teens, it was a gradual shift, they are a lot more aware of what they are eating and mostly they stick with it as they have realised themselves that they feel sluggish and a bit unwell if they eat junk.

Our toddler eats what we eat, with a bit more carb. I don't freak out if he gets offered bread/wheat products when out at parties etc, as this is something he is going to have to learn to deal with (an I hope choose) when he is older but it's not part of his everyday diet.

RawCoconutMacaroon Mon 15-Apr-13 13:53:18

Olrojo,

For breakfast my toddler likes "not porridge" which is stewed unsweetened apple and berries, mixed with either raw almond butter or almond flour- very tasty warm or cold- the fruit freezes well in portions.

Banana with nut butter smoothy is also lovely - too many carbs for me but good for active kids!

teaandthorazine Mon 15-Apr-13 16:11:56

First Abel & Cole organic fruit & veg box has arrived - excitement!! In it are...oranges, apples, two heads of broccoli, bananas, two aubergines, cabbage, two courgettes, vine toms and carrots. And a box of salad! We asked for them to never send potatoes so hopefully we'll get a surprise every month...

It is pathetic how excited I am by a box of veg. We are eating LOADS of veg since going primal; so much more than ever before. But I was thinking that a veg box might prompt me to get a bit more creative... there's a recipe in the box for aubergine 'meat'balls which looks delicious... It's not exactly the cheap option and we might not do it forever but it's worth a go just for a bit of variety I reckon.

Tonight I think it will be pan-fried (I hate that phrase - how else do you fry anything except in a pan?) pollock with roasted broccoli, peppers and buttered spring greens. The best thing for me about primal (except sleeping better, stabilising my moods, having clearer skin, losing weight, not being shattered and bloated all the time) is how much fun it's made cooking. Who would've thought I'd crave a plate of green veg? But I do.

Just got to wait for my raw chocolate to arrive now... grin

thebestpossibletaste Mon 15-Apr-13 16:28:46

I'm really going to struggle with breakfasts for my DD as she doesn't like meat or egg much, this morning she had a tin of spaghetti with sausages! Otherwise she'd just eat toast with butter and marmite. She only eats white bread too. She would possibly eat natural yogurt with a little honey and some berries so I might try her with that.

TheYoniOfYawn Mon 15-Apr-13 16:37:11

My kids like hot berries with coconut milk, boiled eggs, cold chicken with veg sticks, meatballs or mini fishcakes with veg sticks. I'm going to try the apple puree with nut butter - it sounds good.

FavadiCacao Mon 15-Apr-13 18:43:47

Ds(12) came back yesterday from 4 days away: "Mum, I need a decent meal. I survived rice pudding and lumpy custard, so don't skimp on fish and veg, Pleeease!" He ate almost 2 mackerels and 1/2kg of courgettes! shock smile

Apparently, he was able to have veg only on 1 night. hmm

thebestpossibletaste Mon 15-Apr-13 20:11:59

Shocking! Cheap stodgy food!

StuffezLaYoni Mon 15-Apr-13 20:19:03

So... Sweet potatoes. Are they ok or aren't they? I am skint. Horribly, depressingly skint until the end of the month and have had to do an absolutely minimal shop this weekend. Luckily, I have some meat frozen, so my evening meals for the next couple of weeks seem to be a piece of grilled meat with a sweet potato (baked or chilli wedges) and nice veg like broccoli or spinach. I don't mind this at all as this is pretty delicious!
But a woman at my work today told me sweet potatoes will stop me losing weight. She used to be a slimming world rep. Is she right?

teaandthorazine Mon 15-Apr-13 20:40:41

Well, they are a sweet, starchy veg so from a low-carb pov they're out tbh. But... they are very very popular in the primal world ime! They are lower GI than white potatoes...

Your friend is right in one sense, theyre certainly not going to help you lose weight, but from a primal standpoint they are a really good wholesome food. If money is really tight and its all you've got I'd say fair enough - though butternut squash or celeriac would be better choices from a weightloss pov!

StuffezLaYoni Mon 15-Apr-13 20:45:47

Damn, I've just bought a big bag of them! :-( I can't waste them - I will just hope that one a day won't be too terrible, especially since I'd hope the other changes I've made will outweigh this! Thanks, tea
Going to search for butternut squash recipes.. I've only ever made them taste horribly bland!

snoworneahva Mon 15-Apr-13 21:02:52

Chop up butternut squash, coat in oil, add salt, some thyme or sage, if you have it and roast till golden.

snoworneahva Mon 15-Apr-13 21:08:29

Tea you're making me crave a veg box again, after a trip to Waitrose today where the shelves were empty and the veg was very sad looking. I have tried the veg box before and I've given up due to wastage....but that was when the kids were small, I struggled to work around someone else's suggestions....I wonder whether I could do it better this time confused. Still remember their blood oranges, they were amazing!

teaandthorazine Mon 15-Apr-13 21:41:17

Stuffez - 'don't let perfect be the enemy of good'.

In other words, you've made a whole shedload of changes that are going to stand you in really good stead, both weight and health wise. So what if it's not perfect? Sweet potatoes are better than chips, and none of this will work for you if it's not sustainable in the long run. Enjoy your sweet potatoes, they're good, proper food. After this period of skintness is over, maybe just have them once a week!

Snow - honestly, it gives me such pleasure to see my fridge full of veg! I am becoming a bit weird grin

Xenia Mon 15-Apr-13 21:54:31

Better a sweet potato any day which our ancestors probably spent a lot of time grubbing in the ground to find than just about any processed food on the planet.

EMUZ Mon 15-Apr-13 22:15:56

I eat a sweet potato nearly every day usually mashed with butter and I'm still losing weight. My personal trainer encourages me to eat them! I do tend to not eat enough though.
Am loving primal food and exercise grin working out for about 5-7hrs a week at the moment and feel amazing, my entire body shape has changed. I posted before and after photos on the BIWI thread

snoworneahva Mon 15-Apr-13 22:20:17

*don't let perfect be the enemy of good*<<<this!

StuffezLaYoni Tue 16-Apr-13 08:48:09

Thanks for the reassurance and the positive stories! I love that quote as well.
EMUZ exercise is something I need to step up too. I'm on my feet all day teaching but it's not exactly strenuous. When I've been to the gym in the past, the machine I really got to grips with was he cross trainer. I went from five minutes and feeling like I was going to die, to 45 minutes and feeling like I could keep going. I'm scouting around on gumtree for a second hand cross trainer for when I get paid.

EMUZ Tue 16-Apr-13 13:54:16

This is after about 3 months primal/Paleo eating and workouts. Loss is 9kg, 7cm round stomach, 3cm off chest and my body is definitely changing shape
i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/brighthair84/E9810A60-22F6-433F-AD67-93C3B942B51C-3852-000004C19BD350A0_zps490af82f.jpg

StuffezLaYoni Tue 16-Apr-13 14:12:37

Bloody. Hell! Wow! That is so noticeable! :-) I am going to take a before shot tonight (maybe not ready to show anyone though!)

EMUZ Tue 16-Apr-13 14:33:36

I didn't enjoy the before shots grin
Am pleased with the changes I can see in photos as I can't see it in the mirror yet!!

snoworneahva Tue 16-Apr-13 15:01:02

Wow Emuz what a difference! Well done.

EMUZ Tue 16-Apr-13 15:14:23

Long way to go yet, I am still in the obese category. Am hoping to start weight lifting/deadlifts properly by June but just need some more lower body and core strength first. The food has made the biggest difference but the exercise has motivated me and been easier because of the food

teaandthorazine Tue 16-Apr-13 17:44:18

EMUZ, that's an amazing transformation - well done!

Feeling quite peckish today. 'Tis totm (sorry if tmi) and I think that does tend to bring on the snack attacks. Had a rather nice duck salad from pret a manger for lunch, with an apple and water. Oh, and one of their little bars of dark choc with sea salt smile - very nice.

Tonight is chicken legs with...something. Will probably roast them with some veg. Or maybe a creamy mushroom sauce - now there's a thought! Last night was a success - ds ate a proper piece of fish! And pronounced it delicious. I roasted some broccoli with garlic and lemon, and added some mashed sweet potato we had leftover, fried up into patties. Spring greens and a dollop of pesto - was fab.

What's everyone else got planned for dinner? I love hearing about your food!

snoworneahva Tue 16-Apr-13 17:58:51

I too enjoy hearing about other peoples food.
Did cream cheese pancakes with raspberry coulis for the kids breakfast - having previously gone down like a lead balloon the last time I offered them, today they were gobbled up with enthusiasm. I had boiled eggs and chicken.
Sausages with stir fried Savoy cabbage for lunch. Kids had sausages, cucumber, kiwi fruit and a banana muffin.
Made some pumpkin gingerbread cake this afternoon - recipe needs work, more molasses and more ginger. But dcs think it's a good substitute for the wheat based version.
Dinner will be five spice chicken with pea shoot salad and maybe some roasted cauliflower - kids will have mash with theirs.
Planning to start making my own sausages soon, got all the ingredients today, I have extra fine almonds arriving in bulk tomorrow, with some coconut flour and a bulk purchase of vanilla, ordered a veg box and some meat from Abel & Cole too, thinking of growing my own Stevia - I need to stay away from the Internet!!!

Exercise today - long walk and circuits in the park. Will go for a run tomorrow.

EMUZ Tue 16-Apr-13 18:17:22

Shift work so odd meal times!
Brunch - omelette with spring onions, tomato, mushroom and ham
Protein shake post gym
Tea is a bizarre combo of roast chicken, sweet potato mash and a spoonful of curry sauce base blush

StuffezLaYoni Tue 16-Apr-13 18:27:20

I had tuna and spinach leaves for lunch and got a pork chop with (surprise, surprise!) sweet potato wedges and broccoli. I will get twenty quid for tuition tomorrow and will be hot footing it down to tesco for something a little more interesting!

thebestpossibletaste Tue 16-Apr-13 18:55:41

Snow, do you have the recipe for cream cheese pancakes? smile

thebestpossibletaste Tue 16-Apr-13 19:31:28

I keep reading about baking with coconut flour. What's it like and how does it turn out? Not for me, I struggle with carbs but I think it would be better for my daughter than wheat!

I had bacon and eggs for breakfast, prawns in homemade mayo for lunch with salad and chilli con carne without rice for dinner.

I struggle for recipe ideas, am not very imaginative.

3ismylot Tue 16-Apr-13 20:01:09

Breakfast was greek yogurt with grated apple and cashew nuts

Lunch was bacon scrambled eggs and mushrooms

Dinner was slow cooker pulled pork homemade coleslaw and sweet potato chips

I am one very happy cavegirl grin

snoworneahva Tue 16-Apr-13 20:07:45

Cream cheese pancakes

50g cream cheese
2 eggs
1tsp maple syrup
1 tsp cinnamon - ( I add 2tsp as we love cinnamon)
1tsp coconut flour
1/2 tsp baking powder

Mix together using a stick blender. You can make them without coconut flour and baking powder to make something more like a crepe.

Spoon a tablespoon of mixture onto an oiled heated non stick frying pan. Like all pancakes you need to play a bit to achieve the right heat and figure out when best to flip over.

Philly comes in small snack sized portions - it's perfect for this, they have a really long shelf life, so you'll always have the ingredients at hand.

Frozen blueberries with more cinnamon cooked in micro till they go jammy work well with these.

MacaYoniAndCheese Tue 16-Apr-13 20:43:41

I'm trying to lose a little weight and feel more energetic. I run 5 days a week but definitely need to get rid of a little winter flab. I've been doing this for 2 days and have already lost 2lbs! So strange...because I'm eating tons of food...just no bread, rice, pasta or my beloved morning oatmeal. This morning I had a veggie/egg scramble with salsa, went for a 10k run and then had a banana afterwards (wasn't hungry but figured a snack was a good idea since lunch would be late and I had just worked out). Lunch was lettuce wraps with lobster, avocado, mango, carrot and cucumber and a piece of grilled salmon. Afternoon snack was green tea and 4 small squares of 85% chocolate (wasn't hungry but always feel like I need either caffeine or a nap mid-afternoon). Dinner is going to be zucchini ribbons sautéed in coconut oil and turkey bolognaise sauce, green salad and berries for dessert.

Not really noticing much change in energy levels just yet but I feel like my thigh cellulite is a bit less noticeable so I guess that's worth sticking with this for a bit grin. Appetite is the biggest change...I'm just not hungry...at all. I don't know whether I should eat, just because? I'm pretty active so I feel like I should, regardless of appetite.

TheYoniOfYawn Tue 16-Apr-13 21:04:41

Coconut flour can make some excellent cakes. My birthday is next week and I will be making the chocolate cake from Primal Palate which is nicer than wheat flour cake, I think. With coconut flour, you use a little bit if flour and a LOT of eggs, which means that a small slice of cake is very filling.

thebestpossibletaste Tue 16-Apr-13 21:25:01

Thanks for the recipe for pancakes and info about coconut flour, I'll get hold of some and try those for my daughter.

I tend to eat carb and dairy free as I suffer with IBS and avoiding them seems to help. It does limit what I can eat though.

teaandthorazine Wed 17-Apr-13 11:08:55

So last night I wanted something a bit sweet after dinner. I mixed a few frozen raspberries into a small bowl of full fat Greek yoghurt, with a very small swirl of honey.

OMG, frankly. Like raspberry ripple icecream. Just utterly delicious. The raspberries must be frozen though, I don't think it would work so well with normal ones!

And btw, ghee makes chicken skin unbelievably crispy and moreish...

thebestpossibletaste Wed 17-Apr-13 11:10:29

That's my husband's favourite dessert! I always have frozen raspberries in the freezer and buy the full fat yeo Valley natural yoghurt, it's so creamy!

I'm so sad that I can't have dairy sad

buildingmycorestrength Wed 17-Apr-13 11:13:16

I have had a few grains for a couple of days but that was mainly down to poor planning! I'm excited about the turkey tagline I'm cooking in the slow cooker...the smells coming from the kitchen are so delicious. Everyone else can have it with cous cous but I'll have salad.

I'm also going to try slow cooking rendang and pho sometime, just to have a change from English-style casseroles.

snoworneahva Wed 17-Apr-13 12:07:12

Fasting today. So black coffee, tea and water till 7.00pm.

Dcs had grain-free gingerbread with lots of butter for breakfast.
Dcs packed lunch - curried celeriac & coconut soup - leftover from Sunday dinner and a homemade macaroon with a dark choc ganache filling.
Salmon for dinner with a lemon and mustard celeriac mash. Dcs will probably have broccoli and potato mash with theirs.

Tried roasted cauliflower with cumin seed and ground coriander last night, it was a little soggy....maybe I used too much oil....confused the Five spice chicken was successful, kids begrudgingly ate the spinach and pea shoots though, so we'll do it with broccoli or Savoy cabbage next time.

teaandthorazine Wed 17-Apr-13 12:13:12

Snow - macaroons with dark chocolate ganache?? Recipe please! grin

thebestpossibletaste Wed 17-Apr-13 12:14:59

Salmon for dinner here too with wilted spinach and probably mushrooms fried in butter, may mash some potato for DD.

Wow, grain free gingerbread ...! Do you have a recipe book you use or just try recipes out with different grains or without?

snoworneahva Wed 17-Apr-13 14:27:52

Tea all macaroons are gluten free, but unfortunately not even close to Paleo - unless you use palm sugar, not sure they'd be any point for a very occasional treat. Choc ganache was just 85% cocoa mixed with double cream. I can't find the recipe now, they were made over a month ago and frozen - it came from a website though....I suggest YouTube.

thebest I use mostly Paleo blogs, I have a few cookbooks too but I think online blogs by foodies are probably a better resource than books written by health freaks and doctors.
The guys at Primal Palate have come up with 2 versions of gingerbread cookies this one is chewy, their first version is more crunchy - both taste fabulous - we topped them with a splodge of 85% cocoa for an extra treat.
I tend to freeze all my baked goods, we always have a good selection in the freezer so the kids don't feel deprived! Another idea for those who are trying to move their kids towards Paleo, is homemade jelly. If you are lucky you can get hold of grassfed gelatine, an excellent source of protein and make up a jelly with fruit juice....my kids can't get enough of it.

If anyone is trying to locate extra fine almond flour, coconut flour etc...I just received a massive shipment from www.realfoodsource.co.uk - good prices especially if you buy in bulk!

RawCoconutMacaroon Wed 17-Apr-13 16:40:58

Snow, I've seen plenty of macaroons with gluten- those French style coloured ones which look so pretty!

A proper wink macaroon is coconut and some form of sugar mashed into a ball and toasted... Can have egg white or coconut milk or condensed milk too, but the essential 2 ingredient are just coconut and a sugar.

To make raw ones I just mix coconut (equal amounts of flour and desiccated) with runny honey (dark and raw), squish into rough balls (bite size) dip in coconut flour to make the surface less sticky then form into neater balls. Allow to set for a while, dip in melted choc (when choc starts to set, sprinkle with a few bits of coconut) or just eat!

For cooked ones you probably need to add egg white to hold then together more.

SpottedDots Wed 17-Apr-13 17:02:57

Needing a bit of help quickly.

Starting a new job tomorrow and I have no idea what food I should take with me. I'll be out from 6.30 until 2.30 if that helps. The only thing that I don't eat is eggs. Has to be eaten cold too.
The plan is fruit for breakfast and then I'm a bit stuck apart from salad, ok for a couple of days but I have 6 shifts in the next week so looking for a bit more than that. Once I'm a bit more settled I'll be able to cook there, so I just need something for the first couple of weeks.

buildingmycorestrength Wed 17-Apr-13 17:06:14

Grilled chicken breasts or fish with the salad. Easy to eat cold and sliced.

StuffezLaYoni Wed 17-Apr-13 17:14:07

How about a pot with some grilled steak, roasted pepper (chopped) and spinach. Sounds expensive but I've just got a MASSIVE slab of topside steak - never had it but looks good - for 3.50 from Morrisons. I've cut it up into three decent sized steaks. Two for dinners and one for aforementioned lunch!

StuffezLaYoni Wed 17-Apr-13 17:14:57

Or, for simplicity, how about my new favourite? A bag of spinach mixed with a portion sized tin of tuna in oil. Delicious and amazingly filling.

MacaYoniAndCheese Wed 17-Apr-13 17:17:26

Mmmm...I just made the yummiest lunch. Salmon filet baked with a little coconut oil, cherry tomatoes (about a cup) stirred with a blob of pesto and stuck under the broiler for about 10 minutes, salad leaves with oil and vinegar and way too much a bit of guacamole. Also made a giant batch of (non-paleo) chocolate chip cookies for the hordes after school and I'm even remotely tempted because I feel stuffed.

MacaYoniAndCheese Wed 17-Apr-13 17:19:11

That would be not tempted. Obv.

snoworneahva Wed 17-Apr-13 17:42:03

There does seem to be some confusion over what a macaroon is. The delicate French type isn't supposed to have gluten, but I suppose there's no law against modifying the traditional French recipe, so it's not guaranteed.

I love the bounty bar style macaroon, but unfortunately the dcs don't.

snoworneahva Wed 17-Apr-13 17:44:03

How about soup for lunch.

thebestpossibletaste Wed 17-Apr-13 19:35:54

Just had lovely wilted spinach with baked salmon and mushrooms fried in butter, yum!

SpottedDots Wed 17-Apr-13 20:08:42

Do you know what, I never even thought about having steak. Going to get a bit of shopping when I finish tomorrow and steak will be on the list. I also quite like the spinach and tuna idea.

Tomorrow will have to be the boring chicken salad as I didn't have time to go out and do any shopping.

Soup is definitely on the list but I want to be a bit more settled first, although I could take a flask I suppose.

olrojo Wed 17-Apr-13 20:24:12

So day three nearly done and I think I've done ok :-) I've been having eggs scrambled cooked in butter for breakfast, snacking on fruit, nuts and dates, and meat with salad for lunch, and dinners of loads of veg with bolognese, chicken leg and roast beef. I made cauliflower mash tonight and quite liked it but kids wouldn't touch it.
Disappointed scales havent moved yet but not going to let that ruin things. Just made bread for lunch boxes and so wanted some!

EMUZ Wed 17-Apr-13 20:26:56

I am a tramp blush and eat everything cold. My personal trainer basically said eat because I am so rubbish at eating enough and I don't get much time
Things I eat cold
Omelette, chilli, prawns, curry, steak, cooked veg, sweet potato, roast chicken... Pretty much everything!

StuffezLaYoni Thu 18-Apr-13 07:03:03

Sorry to start the morning with such a gruesome image, but looking in the mirror I can't really see my "fat apron" has reduced. I can certainly feel changes and I have infinitely more energy...but I don't seem to have lost much weight. I know I'm not imagining the changes as I'm quite brutally honest with myself regarding my body. Maybe I should stop weighing myself. :-(

snoworneahva Thu 18-Apr-13 07:10:56

I think it's very hard to see changes in the mirror. Last year I went from a size 14 to a size 8-10 and all I could see was fat thighs. The crushing reality hit home that I had reduced in size but my shape was here to stay. So when I looked in the mirror I saw the same shape, same body issues but my silhouette was maybe an inch small - that is almost impossible to spot with the naked eye. Take some pics to remind yourself or reserve a pair of jeans that are a bit too tight. Scales are motivating for some people, the opposite for others....know what suits you best.

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 18-Apr-13 07:43:47

Snow, well that's the thing... Manufacturers put wheat/gluten in all sorts of places it shouldn't be!

For my teens, who do eat some rice and potato, I make sure these are gluten free - many have gluten sprayed on them!
Nut and fruit mixes often have gluten...
Soups, Sauces, herb mixes ... The list goes on!
I have given up trying to find real beef jerky here in the UK as I have not found any without wheat and huge amounts of sugar in sad

I am sure this has nothing to do with the fact that wheat protein has appetite stimulating properties!!!!!

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 18-Apr-13 10:04:35

Rice and potato chips and snacks I mean!

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 18-Apr-13 10:22:25

Olrojo,

Dates are fabulous but remember while weight loss is the goal, literally only one or two dates as a treat and not every day - they are very high gi carbs.

Great for the very active, slim and little kids but not so great for the rest of us!

Not helpful, but I love them cut in two, rolled in melted 85% choc and allowed to set grin you are likely to be served these as a coffee accompaniment at my house (no cakes/buns tho!), 2 or 3 of those are a lovely treat and amazingly sweet and filling if you are not eating sugar every day.

Same with nuts really - yes they are natural and healthy with lots of nutrients BUT for weight loss, be mindful of portion sizes. A handful (30g or so), at a time... You can always serve your self another handful if you need them but I find that's enough ( but if I start with a whole bag rather than a handful I might eat it all!)

snoworneahva Thu 18-Apr-13 13:18:11

My dcs get chips quite often, homemade with lard, lovely!

Today dcs had fried egg, bacon and sausages for breakfast. Their lunch box is filled with veggie korma and rice, raw carrots - one has a banana choc chip muffin, the other has lemon & poppy seed muffin, both grain free.
Dh and I usually go out to lunch once a week but I'm being very strict atm with gluten and milk so we've decided to do a nice lunch at home.
Starting with figs and Parma Ham, maybe a drizzle of raw honey. Followed by aubergine stuffed with lamb & pine nuts, served with salad and cauli rice. Maybe some cheese to polish thing off - we have some lovely Comte & Brie in the fridge.
I got my new mincer out this morning and made my first batch of sausagemea, had a test patty for breakfast - really pleased with the result, sausages for the kids without the nitrates. Will make a stew of sausage, tomato and puy lentils for the dcs this evening, we'll probably have a little bit of sausage and tomato if we're hungry.

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 18-Apr-13 16:46:52

Snow -That all sounds nom nom! I've just ordered a heavy duty burger press - m&s does nice gluten free steakburgers (and outdoor pork sausage) but I want to try making my own more often - texture is never quite as good without a press.

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 18-Apr-13 16:54:40

Re gluten, I have to totally avoid it now as since I cut it out (and all my health issues that I hadn't realised were due to gluten disappeared), I get ill with only trace amounts of gluten or wheat derivatives.

This makes eating out a minefield sad\

EMUZ Thu 18-Apr-13 17:01:53

I so wanted chocolate last night grin was stood at the vending machine with a pound in my sweaty hand debating what to do
Thought "is a chocolate bar worth it?"
Nope. And walked off. Craving went after about an hour

snoworneahva Thu 18-Apr-13 17:02:50

Raw Burger presses are brilliant, so simple, i have a couple of different types but I'm also happy to just shape them in my hands - looking forward to mixing up cuts and making a damn tasty burger in the next few weeks.

I know what you mean about the jerky being full of crap - I think I'm going to make my own, I'll give it a go in the oven and then toy with the idea of getting a machine to do the job. Dh and the dcs love jerky.

snoworneahva Thu 18-Apr-13 17:04:08

Much respect emuz beating a chocolate craving is success indeed.

SpottedDots Thu 18-Apr-13 17:24:50

What chocolate can I actually have? I went looking today and they all said may contain milk or soya, i'm intolerant to both and even the smallest chance of it containing something is too much of a risk.

EMUZ Thu 18-Apr-13 17:31:23

I've given up on chocolate altogether shock
For sweet cravings I usually have no added sugar peanut butter with a banana or an apple
Myprotein website sells a kg of peanut butter for about £5. Tastes different to added sugar one though!

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 18-Apr-13 18:47:40

Spotteddots, generally for low carb, paleo, woe, any good dark choc (85% being perfect!). Dairy and soya free is a tall order though! I buy stuff off goodnessdirect - they have loads of carefully labeled products, you can search for different dietary requirements on their site quite easily. They sell "seed and bean" chocolate with no milk or soya ingredients (but it says "may contain traces").

Snow! I never thought to MAKE jerky but I suppose it can't be too difficult as the original jerky would just be strip of meat dried/smoked near a fire!

FavadiCacao Thu 18-Apr-13 20:09:16

Spotteddots, your local health store might help. Have you come across Plamil before.

Ideas for lunch/snack:
-Any meat set in gelatin. The gelatin helps keeping the meat tender and juicy. If a broth is not setting I use gelatin sheets. My favorite meat for this is cow tongue but ham shank is beautiful too smile
-to follow from jerky: Pork scratchings. num.
-Fish skin cracklings are yum in any salad (or veg)
-Avocado and tuna/prawn salad
-Parma ham and melon
-Stuffed tomatoes (pretend they are ravioli/cannelloni)
-Roasted meat filled courgettes
-Meat loaf (I love adding a boiled egg wrapped in ham in the middle!)

snoworneahva Thu 18-Apr-13 20:49:33

Scotch egg is great for lunch!

On the milk and soya free chocolate, we got some from www.realfoodsource.co.uk. It's ingredients are 70% cocoa and coconut palm sugar, tastes good.

M&S does pork scatchings in a crisp size packet, they taste pretty good too.

snoworneahva Thu 18-Apr-13 21:48:55

raw this is the recipe I hope to replicate at home. Will let you know how it goes...maybe a project for next week.

Pudding of the week is going to be cookie dough ice cream, it has to compete with Ben&Jerrys which is dd's favourite, its a big ask! cookie dough made today from almonds, dark choc, butter and maple syrup - yep it's sweet but it's also full of good stuff too, the cookie dough went down well with my junior taste team, which is a big improvement from my last attempt with coconut butter, can't decide whether to make a proper custard ice cream with cream, egg and maple syrup or an ice cream with coconut milk, I'm still trying to gain their trust on this approach to eating.

Today dd swapped pasta for puy lentils, I know that's not Paleo, but it's better than pasta! And both dcs enjoyed hoovering up the leftovers from our lunch - although one still objected to the aubergine. Homemade sausage meat was well received too, no more shop bought sausage!!!

buildingmycorestrength Thu 18-Apr-13 22:02:12

I put a bowl of sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds and raisins in front of the kids while they watched TV, came back and it was gone. grin They would never have agreed to it.

teaandthorazine Thu 18-Apr-13 22:54:28

Re: chocolate - I've just started buying Ombar chocolate which is actually a raw chocolate sweetened with coconut. It sounds a bit weird but is delicious, and pretty paleo as it has no sugar and no milk. They also do a 72% bar that has added probiotics... It's not cheap but because it's rich you only eat a little at a time - maybe half a 38g bar so hardly anything really! I reckon good chocolate is a a health food - you don't need to avoid it if you choose carefully.

Dinner tonight - carbonara with cabbage instead of pasta - far tastier!

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 19-Apr-13 07:45:31

Tea, good chocolate is certainly Heath food! <hopes>

Re pork scratchings - sadly as with the jerky, I have yet to find any that's not full of crap sad, gluten etc

Still lurking and gettings loads out of this thread. Do any of you take supplements or drink (?) protein shakes. A lot of the US paleo and primal sites rave about them, but I'm not convinced. However I've got a lot going on at the moment and could do with a boost to my stamina so wondered what your thoughts were.

Also if you have Ocado (and I guess Waitrose), they do Laverstoke organic jerky for two pounds and, aside from a bit of sugar, the ingredients look good.

I follow and post paleo recipes on Pinterest using this username. Anyone up for a recipe swap or following each other?

EMUZ Fri 19-Apr-13 12:04:58

I take source of life gold multi vits, strawberry flavour omega 3 liquid and whey protein (usually only after workouts)

StuffezLaYoni Fri 19-Apr-13 13:02:30

What a shit day.
All my colleagues have popped out to the Italian near our work for lunch to send off a woman who's leaving and due to money I've had to miss out, under the pretence of being really busy.
Also I have to embarrass myself by purchasing four quid's worth of petrol this afternoon as its all I have left on my card and no cash til tomorrow. That's if I can even buy that little amount! I don't know what to do.

I know this month was always going to be a tricky one, but I just feel like crying. Luckily my freezer is full of nice meat so I can have a good dinner. This is SHIT.
Sorry for the moan.

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 19-Apr-13 13:58:40

No ocado or waitrose (nearest about 70miles away!), will look at their jerky the next time I'm in a proper city smile.

Re supplements - omega3 and vit D3 probably the only ones most people need (lack of sunlight, and lack of omega3 in meat due to farming methods), but no harm in a multi vit/mineral tablet ...

A paleo/primal style diet should have MORE vitamins and minerals than a grain and dairy heavy diet - no need to worry that you are missing out on anything important by cutting those things from your diet smile.

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 19-Apr-13 13:59:46

Stuffez sad

snoworneahva Fri 19-Apr-13 15:26:21

stuffez it's crap being skint, will the month end see you ok again?

Queen I don't take supplements or protein drinks, I've never really understood why people who eat such a pure Paleo diet approach would ever consider taking those protein shakes, the ingredients are never very appetising or very Paleo sounding. I dont get why Mark Sissons promotes them - other than to make money. I've never been convinced by vitamin taking either, their ingredients are equally as artificial sounding....would much prefer to try to eat a better diet but its not a paleo thing for me, I've always felt this way, even when I ate a conventional diet.

On the recipe sharing, I log all my recipes on Evernote, I do get a little inspiration from Pinterest but it's mostly blogs, will look out for you though.

MacaYoniAndCheese Fri 19-Apr-13 16:32:18

Oh, Stuffez, that's no fun sad. Can you make do without the car until you can fill it up again? flowers

I had a homemade hamburger patty for lunch, which I grilled under the broiler and had with some sautéed mushrooms and onion, green salad, a blob of guacamole and some salsa. And some frozen berries that I blended up so they were like sorbet. Mmmm....I can't stop with the avocados. I LOVE them.

How are you all feeling mood-wise? I'm noticing that I feel a bit calmer and less twitchy/anxious...especially after eating. More balanced somehow and no desire to keep rummaging for things in the cupboards/fridge. Maybe it's the no wheat thing or perhaps the increased fat?

EMUZ Fri 19-Apr-13 16:42:54

I take the protein shakes because I need a lot of protein that's quickly digested after a workout. So that's the only real reason I use them

StuffezLaYoni Fri 19-Apr-13 16:56:25

Thanks for being nice, I am home now. I am so ashamed but I had to borrow a tenner off my friend at work. I was so worried about breaking down due to no fuel. I have no family and only a couple of friends around here so it would have been disastrous.
Am home now and some unbelievable wanker is parked in my space. No fucking money for a pay and display so have just had to park p and keep checking for the parking wardens.
Annoyingly I can't do without the car as work is twelve miles away. Will be fine at the end of the month.

Sorry to de rail - really needed to vent.

BedHanger Fri 19-Apr-13 21:10:53

This thread is great (sorry you're having such a crap time Stuffez sad).

I've discovered that Abel and Cole sell organic beef bones and chicken carcasses for £1.99 a kilo shock. Fantastic for making up super healthy bone broths and really cheap. Guess there's not a huge demand, lucky me!

buildingmycorestrength Fri 19-Apr-13 22:00:10

Am boiling up a beef broth as we speak. My Friday nights are pretty rock and roll these days.

Didn't the Victorians used to give people beef tea when they were ill?

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 19-Apr-13 22:10:55

Yy to the bone broth, you know some butchers give them away free as "dog bones", or for 50p... Means they don't have to pay to dispose of them.

MacaYoniAndCheese Fri 19-Apr-13 22:30:52

Ooh...yes. Straight to bed with lots of strong beef tea smile.

What's the deal with the bone broth? Does it have some kind of magical salubrious powers?

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 19-Apr-13 23:26:25

More or less magical yes! If you cook bones for a long, long time (many many hours in slow cooker or at a low simmer), the minerals leach out of the bones, the marrow, the gelatine too- all full of good stuff!

StuffezLaYoni Sat 20-Apr-13 03:38:32

Well, my compounded misery might make you smile/despise me more. Went to a friends for dinner, naturally arguments break out between her and her boyfriend, i leave to walk home. Fall down a massive bank and cannot find glasses/shoes plus. Refuse ambulance. Police drive me home, I am so ashamed.

buildingmycorestrength Sat 20-Apr-13 07:41:53

Stuffez shock sad You poor love. Want some beef tea?brew

And I've just figured out how to do flowers thanks so have some of those too.

StuffezLaYoni Sat 20-Apr-13 07:46:53

Thank you building, you are lovely.
I am an idiot so don't deserve flowers. I was penniless yesterday so hadnt eaten all day. Went to my friend's house -'she had done a beautiful veg-packed curry - and I drank too much. Well, it hit me like a train and the falling was totally my fault. I am DYING of shame this morning. I literally couldn't move at the bottom of this bank - I am scratched to fuck all over. Thanks for the beef tea, whatever that is, it sounds lovely. Retreats under duvet.

buildingmycorestrength Sat 20-Apr-13 08:09:38

Beef tea...read up thread.

Sounds like you need a fry up. grin Hope you recover soon.

teaandthorazine Sat 20-Apr-13 08:47:53

Oh, Stuffez, what a crappy day! If it makes you feel even slightly better I'm suffering this morning too - completely self-induced by waaaaaay too much red wine at a friends house last night; I feel like death.

Hope your scratches heal and your weekend improves!

snoworneahva Sat 20-Apr-13 13:07:30

stuff you party animal! In time you'll laugh about last night - I hope! I over indulged last night too - feel rough as guts this morning....only have had water and black coffee so far. Everyone else has had homemade sausage with bacon and eggs.

Trying out some rib eye steak from Abel & cole for dinner tonight, might try and get some sweet potatoes to accompany. Dcs are still in two minds about them so I'm slipping one or two onto their plates along with white potato chips. All cooked in lard.

Dh has tried the jerky from Laverstoke Park farm and he wasn't keen on the texture - too tough, he likes the M&S one, but it's loaded with sugar. Was quite tempted by the nitrate free bacon - it's expensive though, especially with nearly £5 postage.

teaandthorazine Sat 20-Apr-13 16:39:28

Feeling a bit better now; made some roasted cauliflower soup for lunch followed by a little bit of coconut-sweetened dark choc, so that hit the spot pretty well! Just back from Aldi with almond flour so might try to make onion bhajis tonight to go with our takeout curry... And have also topped up my vitamin D with a walk in our very sunny local park - drew the line at going barefoot just yet but hopefully it won't be long, once the ground has dried out a bit. Love going barefoot!

RawCoconutMacaroon Sat 20-Apr-13 16:55:24

Stuffez, shock, you are really having a hard time of it! Hopefully next week will be a better one smile.

EMUZ Sat 20-Apr-13 18:58:20

I have (very loosely primal!) protein cupcakes in the oven <crosses fingers>

StuffezLaYoni Sat 20-Apr-13 19:06:06

Thanks, kind people, I've stopped pity partying now! (Glad others were also suffering this morning!)
Have not used it as an excuse to eat shit though - am currently roasting a chicken with chilli oil and going to have it with some roasted broccoli and cauliflower - yum!
tea it's been quite a revelation to me to learn there are all these different kinds of flours - it definitely opens up a lot more cooking possibilities.
I also bought an ill-deserved treat for my breakfast tomorrow - kippers! Haven't had them for years!
snow your rib eye will be delicious! And what is lard like to fry chips in? It's so weird to read about weight-losing people using lard!

MacaYoniAndCheese Sat 20-Apr-13 21:57:56

Mmmm...kippers. Lovely. We can't get them here envy.

StuffezLaYoni Sat 20-Apr-13 22:23:44

Can't get kippers?? That's rubbish! God I'm looking forward to them already!

snoworneahva Sun 21-Apr-13 08:02:04

Lard is the business when it comes to crisp chips, goose fat and duck fat work well too. Damned ribeye is cut on the wonk - doesn't say much for Able&Cole, how on earth do they consider that good butchery, turns out the steak was pretty tasteless, having a proper hoke through the veg box, the carrots are horrid - dried up, bendy and old, tomatoes are past their best....this is why I stopped using them 7 years ago, of course they will refund and replace but who wants to complain every week.

Better experience on a trip to our new Morrisons - the veg was amazing, we picked up some strange fruits and a very pretty Roman cauliflower - great place to bring the kids and get them enthused about veg...need to figure out how to put together an interesting dish to go with jerk chicken today - might even do the jerk on the BBQ.

Fry up for breakfast with some lovely king oyster mushrooms.

snoworneahva Sun 21-Apr-13 08:03:01

Really fancy kippers too, maybe next weekend....

StuffezLaYoni Sun 21-Apr-13 17:03:51

I've suddenly twigged today that I'm hoiking up my bloody trousers all the time recently. Even though the weight doesn't appear to be coming off yet, I can feel changes happening, particularly in my stomach area. My scales are ancient though and cost about 14 pence so maybe not the most reliable...
Hope everyone's had a nice weekend.

Thanks for the thoughts on supplements and shakes - sort of ties in with my thinking. If you're eating a varied, natural diet, why would you need or want to get a load of processed shakes down you?

Stuffez, hopefully next week will be better!

Snow, I too found Able and Cole underwhelming but have found Riverford consistently good over the years.

snoworneahva Sun 21-Apr-13 18:43:09

I might try Riverford - last time I used them I found that they delivered too many brassicas but we seem to be eating loads of the green stuff now, so maybe it might fit with our diet now.

teaandthorazine Sun 21-Apr-13 18:54:07

Hello all

Must admit that this weekend has seen rather too much indulgence on the red wine front... Though am just keeping my mind in all the reservatrol (sp?) I must be ingesting! Got some sunshine and barefoot walking in today which was lovely - do and I headed up to the North Downs and sunbathed with the papers and kicked off our shoes... Feels like spring!

Dinner tonight is low-carb sausages with sweet potato 'chips' (oven baked with coconut oil and paprika) and buttered sautéed courgette. And maybe some 85% choc to finish off the weekend!

snoworneahva Sun 21-Apr-13 19:08:25

Sounds great tea we had planned sweet potato chips with our steak last night but they were sadly neglected and burned to a crisp! Dinner this evening was jerk chicken with salad and homemade grain free cookie dough ice cream with strawberries and some lovely honey to finish. Was worried about the cookie dough as it's dd's favourite ice cream - Ben & Jerrys, that is but she loved it - really surprised she didn't have a hairy fit over the coconut taste, the teenage years are closer than i want to believe, that recipe will be a definite on the repeat list.

Meringues with chocolate ganache for next Sunday's treat, I have too many egg whites in the freezer.

EMUZ Sun 21-Apr-13 22:42:30

Just got some lovely beef to do a beef casserole with. Will be having with sweet potato mash. Managing to eat more this week, I've found I need to distract myself when eating so I watch tv or come on here! And that way I can sort of mindlessly shovel food in. Aware that goes against most diets but otherwise I am eating two meals a day and only child size portions

EMUZ Sun 21-Apr-13 22:57:11

I think I've converted my dad too. He was moaning about being fed up of toast and cereal and asked what I eat for breakfast. Got a phone call today off him "I've had steak, eggs and veg for breakfast!! And I'm still full"
Apparently my mother thinks he's gone insane but he is planning omelette for tomorrow's breakfast

teaandthorazine Mon 22-Apr-13 14:17:04

Right, am going to have a little rant now, so brace yourselves wink

I am working in a large south London hospital today, spending time with some of my students who are in placement. I forgot to bring any lunch with me, so tripped off to the hospital shop to get something (the one and only canteen is on the other side of the site and I didn't have time to get there). My choice for lunch was: roll, sandwich, toastie, baguette or soup with roll. Except they didn't have the soup. When I asked if they had any fruit or salad I was met with a blank look.

What there was, in abundance, was sugar. Ross and rows and rows of 'grab bags' of sweets (I.e. twice as much as a 'normal' bag. Rows and rows and rows of chocolate, biscuits, snack bars, 'healthy bars' with the first three ingredients some sort of sugar. The drinks on offer were twenty different types of fizzy crap, with a few bottles of plain water at the bottom. If you wanted a coffee, you could get a pastry for just a quid. You could buy 10 different types of crisps. But could you get a fucking apple??

I know I've just been reading Robert Lustig so I'm probably hyper aware of all this. But oh my god, it's terrifying. It's a hospital ffs. And you literally couldn't buy a damn thing in there that wouldn't give you diabetes. It makes me want to scream.

buildingmycorestrength Mon 22-Apr-13 14:50:16

My favourite example of that is the rows of vending machines in the lobby of the Metabolic Disorders section of our hospital. Insanity. grin.

buildingmycorestrength Mon 22-Apr-13 19:34:35

Mr Money Mustache has a good blog post on his blog about paleo. can't link, sorry. Great blog in general, mostly about personal finance but writes about food sometimes.

RawCoconutMacaroon Mon 22-Apr-13 22:51:34

Tea, yy to your recent post. And every coffee shop is as bad... I always make sure I have an emergency meal in my handbag (small bag of almonds, some seeds or similar that will keep for months in my bag until needed!). Something like that, and a coffee can hold me for a couple of hours.

MacaYoniAndCheese Mon 22-Apr-13 23:49:06

Yup. Our hospitals are the same. Our local has a Tim Horton's (fast food donut shop) in the lobby confused. Sigh.

Just made something really nice for dinner; marinated and roast pork tenderloin with steamed green beans and mashed cauliflower/carrots (steamed then added some onion, garlic, rosemary sautéed in butter). Two thirds of my children claimed them to be 'yummy' so will definitely make again smile.

snoworneahva Tue 23-Apr-13 06:44:14

maca your dinner sounds lovely.

Hospital's pretty much the same here too, last time we were stuck in a&e we couldn't even buy water from the vending machine!

Am making a German apple pancake for the dcs breakfast this morning. Packed lunch will be - sweet potato, carrot and coconut soup, some preservative free chorizo and a home made gluten free choc chip cookie - the cookie has an awful lot of sugar in it, but they were desperate for some and they are really chocolatey, definitely no complaints - will be tweaking the recipe to add some almond flour. Tonight I'm making a massive pot of korma sauce for the freezer - will add lamb for tonight's food, we have a child coming around who is rumoured to like curry, fingers crossed!

teaandthorazine Tue 23-Apr-13 07:25:53

Sounds good snow!

Well, yesterday ended up being a bit more faileo than paleo but heyholeo!

The hospital debacle meant an egg and cress sandwich, and really paying for it later with bloating and discomfort! I used to be sooooo cynical about the idea of wheat intolerance etc until I took a look at my own diet and my own reactions. Now I know better.

Dinner was aubergine 'meatballs' from the Abel and Cole freebie cookbook that came with our veg box (along with a kohlrabi which still has me mystified!) accompanied by mushrooms baked with garlic and blue cheese, and plenty of salad. A bit of a mishmash but delicious. And a bit of 85% Aldi choc - the stuff that comes in the little individually wrapped bars, brilliant stuff!

I did finish off ds's vanilla yoghurt with frozen raspberries - thought it might soothe his sore throat but he left half of it and I couldn't just throw it away! Bad sign though - he's off school today with tonsillitis poor thing!

snoworneahva Tue 23-Apr-13 08:13:05

Hope you ds feels better soon tea, I bought some kohl rabi in the local fancy Morrisons on Saruraday - it's in the fridge calling to me - I've read that it's taste and texture is like the stalk of broccoli - which is my favourite part, I'm thinking a salad - or maybe I'll just much my way through it raw.

The German apple pancake was just ok, I got comments like not enough apple, too eggy and funny texture - ds drown his in thick double cream and still managed to consume a massive portion. It will all get eaten but probably not made again.

marzipananimal Tue 23-Apr-13 20:28:18

Has anyone found anything you can buy when out and about for lunch that's whole30/paleo friendly? Maybe like an M&S salad or something? Will be aiming to make packed lunches every day but bound to fail sometimes

snoworneahva Tue 23-Apr-13 20:56:44

M&S have cooked meats, washed raw carrots and other veg, fruit, pork scratching, nuts, coconuts - I don't know how "pure" these products are but when you are stuck and you don't wish to fast, then you still have options.

thebestpossibletaste Wed 24-Apr-13 10:38:33

Read the ingredients on M&S (and other) cooked meats though, they often contain added sugar!

misscph1973 Wed 24-Apr-13 10:59:51

What a great thread! I have finally read through it ;)

I have been working towards Paleo/Primal since August last year. I have read and reread Mark Sissons book and Robb Wolfs book and read on many websites. As a former vegetarian/nearly vegan it was quite difficult for me to start eating so much meat ;) But I have been toying with the idea of going gluten free and dairy free for some time and that is just so hard as a vegetarian/nearly vegan - there wouldn't be much left that I could eat!

I am only now beginning to stop "replacing" baked goods and for me that is the key. I am working very hard on avoiding processed foods, including my own processing, so to speak.

I have experienced clearer skin, dandruff disappeared, better results from workouts (weights) and consistent energy levels. I have gained a little weight, but according to my husband I was underweight when I was vegetarian/vegan. I am doing IF once or twice a week to lose a little weight.

A few hints that have helped me:

Almonds. Almost no carbs and an acceptable substitute for a biscuit when having a cup of tea.

Liver pate - liver is cheap and liver pate is so easy to make. Kids love it. Happy to post recipe (few ingredients), if anyone is interested.

Grass fed meat: Try athleat.co.uk. Their meat is amazing and prices are similar or lower than supermarket organic meat. We get a big box of mince, steaks, bones for broth and liver for pate twice a month.

Tinned fish. Cheap and easy. Get tuna and sardines in olive oil and mackerel in tomato. I find that Sainsbury's taste the best.

Cabbage. Any kind of cabbage. A versatile, cheap and healthy vegetable. Salad: Finely shredded with olive oil, lemon juice and salt. Gently fry with nutmeg and butter with any meat.

Make your own mayonnaise with mild olive oil. My kids go trough one jar per week. They need the fat as do we!

So you get your omega 3 from fish and grass fed meat, but get even more from Intelligent Eggs - from hens that have been fed a diet rich in omega 3. From Waitrise/Ocado.

Coconut oil is great, but too expensive in the long run. I use it raw and as a moisturiser.

Make your own dairy free kefir with kefir grains from ebay and a can of coconut milk. Easy, tasty and so healthy.

I have an amazing recipe for almond flour and coconut pan cakes if anyone is interested.

snoworneahva Wed 24-Apr-13 12:34:06

Great tips misscp would love your pancake recipe.

I don't mind a bit of natural sugar in a dish - I mean if the carbs are less than 5g/100g it can't be a huge amount, so I figure that for an occasional snack on the run, it's not so bad but i appreciate everyone has their own limits and rules on these things.

misscph1973 Wed 24-Apr-13 12:46:05

snoworneahva, here it goes:

10-15 pancakes:

10 eggs
1 can coconut milk
300 g almond flour
2 tbsp arrowroot powder

(I found almond flour fairly cheap in my local Asian grocer)

Mix everything well and leave overnight in fridge (or 1 hour if having on the same day), it thickens nicely.

You need to make the pancakes fairly thick, my soup ladle is the perfect for 1. Cook on medium heat and do not attempt to turn them before they are quite golden, as the split easily. I fry in oil/butter.

I serve them with puréed blueberries (thawed from frozen) and bacon. They are very filling! We have them for breakfast once a week and we all have 2-3 each.

Hi - may I join you? I'm on day 3 of attempting to eat primal. I've signed up for the Primal Blueprint Daily Apple email and have been eagerly scouring their articles.
Even though I've only just started, I am noticing a massive difference in my appetite! I'm not craving snacks between meals and already having less trouble resisting carbs and sweet things. I'm sure I'll have many pitfalls to come, but so far so good!
Do many of you follow the primal exercise regime as well as the eating?

misscph1973 Wed 24-Apr-13 13:17:16

holmessweethomes, I also got the primal Blueprint e-mails, very inspiring, aren't they?

I do to a certain extent follow the exercise regime. I have stopped "chronic cardio" and am selling my Concept 2 rower and keeping my weights + my pull-up bar. I am walking (even) more and I am making sure I have rest between exercise. I did try sprinting, but it nearly killed me ;)

I took up running a few years ago, having been terribly unfit, so I'm a bit twitchy about the idea of dropping 'chronic cardio' altogether. However, I've just had a month off running, with an injury caused by over-training, so maybe a re-think is a good idea. Maybe slow my (already pretty slow! ) long runs to a barely-jog and do sprints instead of my shorter runs... Tried the 'lift heavy things' the other day and am still hurting!

Oh and yes, misscph1973 - the emails are great! Trouble is, I click on ever more links from them, and end up sitting on my bum looking at Web pages instead of 'moving around slowly'!

snoworneahva Wed 24-Apr-13 13:49:47

Welcome holmes I don't follow primal exercises as such - but I walk as much as possible, run 3 times a week and do a bootcamp thing in the park twice a week.

nappyaddict Wed 24-Apr-13 13:49:48

I am not strictly primal but I try to follow it as best I can. I try to cut out sugar (including honey), grains and potatoes.

Grass-fed beef and butter is not only better for you but tastes a million times better.

It is great for me because I don't feel deprived. You can make things taste rich with oils, butter, cream and cheese. After all plain bread, rice and pasta isn't exactly something to look forward to is it, it's the sauces you put on it. I just put those sauces on my meat and veg instead.

I also allow myself a recommended amount of 3 squares or 30g of 85% or higher dark chocolate a day and a large glass of good red. The one I drink is 13% and an "allowable" daily serving is apparently 273ml. They both have health benefits and they are a nice treat to look forward to.

If you have a coffee machine put dry ingredients (cinnamon, cocoa powder) on top of the coffee in the filter rather than adding it into the liquid coffee. It's much more flavorful than adding it after the coffee's brewed. In my coffee I now have some vanilla extract, a dollop of extra thick double cream with a teaspoon of cocoa and a teaspoon of cinnamon sprinkled on top instead of milk and sugar.

Some good snacks are:

Berries with cream
A few squares of dark chocolate - 85% plus
Hard boiled eggs
Sticks of cheese
Nuts
Nut butters
Strips of chicken, smoked salmon, ham
Canned tuna
Prawns
Lettuce wraps with sandwich fillings, left over chilli/bolognese, curry etc
Pork scratchings
Avocado
Yoghurt
Beetroot
Pickled onions
Olives
Sundried tomatoes
Those stuffed peppers and cubes of cheese you can get in jars of flavoured oil
Veggie/salad sticks and dips

misscph1973 Wed 24-Apr-13 13:58:16

Thanks, for the snack tips, nappyaddict, and I love the idea about the flavoured coffee, will have to try that in my coffee press ;)

I try to avoid dairy but I do allow myself some fermented dairy like cheese and sour cream (always get the French, it's fattier).

Another great (ie. quick, easy,. cheap) idea that is good hot and cold is frittattas (omelet that isn't folded). I make my kids one out of mixed eggs, grated boiled potato and cheese on the top and adults version has spinach (buy the frozen cubes, great value) and onion in (nutmeg is nice in this too).

And of course, egg muffins, a hit with kids! Mix eggs (1 per serving) with bacon bits, ham bits and/or mushrooms/onion) and pour into silicone muffin cases. Sprinkle with cheese and cook for 20 min. They come out looking like soufflés! Also nice cold.

Great tip about the coffee, I love mocha, so will add a bit of cocoa. I have a small Italian stovetop coffemaker which is brilliant. Great tip also about the Intelligent Eggs. I haven't quite cracked the Omega 3/6 thing yet, but struggle with inflammation so want to work on upping my Omega 3s. Also, DP is a strict veggie and I do wonder about him getting what he needs.

I do Iyengar yoga twice a week which is quite physical, where you use your full body weight a lot. However it's a 30 minute walk there and back plus an hour and a half per class, so it's a bit of a time commitment. I'm starting teacher training in September, and am not sure how realistic it will be.

Has anyone done Crossfit? It sounds really interesting, and when I googled it, there is one less than five minutes from my house. I've struggled with my health in the last few years (possible autoimmune condition), and have been signed off a couple of times with exhaustion. I guess I'm a bit apprehensive of wearing myself out.

QueenofDreams Wed 24-Apr-13 21:59:13

Hi, can I jump in on this thread? I've been reading a lot about Primal/paleo the last few days and thinking of giving it a go. I know my Dp won't be interested though. I'm trying to reduce how much bread I eat at the very least as I know I rely on it way too much. 3 stone overweight as a result sad

QueenofDreams Wed 24-Apr-13 22:00:11

Oh and QueenofWhatever I'd love to try crossfit, but don't think I can right now as I'm having physio for pelvic ligament damage.

marzipananimal Thu 25-Apr-13 08:16:58

misscph I'd love the liver pâté recipe. What do you eat it with given no bread etc?
Getting quite inspired about this, just waiting a couple of weeks til after our holiday to start. Thanks for all the tips!

thebestpossibletaste Thu 25-Apr-13 10:06:50

misscph, what is kefir? I always presumed it was like yoghurt, but can't imagine a dairyfree one. I try to avoid dairy but do miss having yoghurt so that might be ideal for me. What are kefir grains?

Also, where do you buy your coconut milk? I bought some Blue Dragon coconut milk and coconut cream also, they seem to have lots of chemicals added?

snoworneahva Thu 25-Apr-13 10:57:06

I buy pouches of coconut milk - brand name is Thai taste, from Waitrose £1 for 200ml.

Made some fabulous Paleo bread this morning - a muffin in a minute type, best I've had yet. Will post recipe if anyone feels like some baked goods.

thebestpossibletaste Thu 25-Apr-13 12:27:19

Just had a look, snow, that looks much better, just coconut and water.

Unfortunately I don't have a Waitrose anywhere near me :-(

thebestpossibletaste Thu 25-Apr-13 12:28:39

misscph, what sort of kefir grains do you buy? I've just had a look and there are milk ones, mushroom ones and water kefir! Help!

snoworneahva Thu 25-Apr-13 12:52:52

I don't think Thai taste is exclusive to Waitrose, I'm sure the other supermarkets sell it too.

Another lurker looking to join in. Started LC a couple of months ago but didn't want to lose weight so started reading around and came across paleo. I'm not strict but work on the 80/20 principle and feel much better as a result!

I struggle with cutting dairy so keep some as t doesn't seem to cause me any problems but do wonder if I'm eating enough protein. Am tempted to have lots of veg and limit the meat a bit but I don't think that's true paleo.

The snacks list from nappyaddict was great - I still like an occasional treat when the kids are eating fruit or biscuits!

thebestpossibletaste Thu 25-Apr-13 13:08:45

I'll have a look, I get my online shopping from Asda and they don't have it, neither do my local Sainsburys or Tescos :-(

Where do people get almond flour from? I can't find it in any of our supermarkets or in the local organic food shop.

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 25-Apr-13 13:27:16

For things like nut flours, nut butters, raw coconut oil etc which I can't get locally, I use goodnessdirect, online grocery store- there are plenty of online shops, that one is good, reliable IME, and if you order over a certain amount, delivery is free (so I order once every few months, use-by dates are always at least 6 months ahead).

Thanks Macaroon. Will have a look.

snoworneahva Thu 25-Apr-13 13:35:56

You can buy blanched (without skin) ground almonds in most supermarkets. Ground almonds are fine for a lot of recipes but for some you may need a finer texture. You can grind the ground almonds down further using a blender - do it too long and you will make almond butter - not a bad thing either! I have only found one source of properly finely milled almond flour in the UK it's from www.realfoodsource.co.uk , if you buy in bulk, you can get it for quite a good price.

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 25-Apr-13 13:36:48

Thebestpossibletaste, re coconut milk, at any large tescos... Ignore the main store "Chinese/Thai", noodle and sauce isle (where the blue dragon stuff will be) and head to the "ethnic" food isle, where they have proper (ie not mainstream UK brands) oriental, Jamaican and Eastern European foods... There you will find a couple of varieties of coconut milk with no nasties in, and its cheaper too. Chaokoh is the brand currently stocked in my nearest couple of tescos , ingredients are coconut, water and citric acid.

nappyaddict Thu 25-Apr-13 17:03:41

I buy almond flour from the local asian supermarket.

misscph1973 Thu 25-Apr-13 17:18:49

Coconut milk: I actually prefer the Blue Dragon brand, but perhaps I should check out other available brands.

Kefir: Get the milk kefir grains. Full instructions here: http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/04/recipe-coconut-milk-kefir-yogurt.html

Pate recipe is so easy:

500 g liver
100 g butter
100 g lard
4 eggs
1-2 tsp salt
Pepper
Big splash of fish sauce (can be left out)

Whizz it all in blender, pour in to ramekins, silicone muffin cases or whatever (small bread tin, but then cook longer) and bake at 175 c for 15-20 min. Freezes well!

I serve with butter fried mushrooms, crispy bacon rashers and cocktail gherkins.

You could also serve with seed crackers:

1 cup pumpkin seeds
1 cup sunflower seeds
1 cup sesame seeds
1 cup flax seed
1 cup water
2 large egg
1-2 tsp salt

Mix and let sit for 1 hour and spread over baking paper on a baking tray )perhaps x 2). Bake for 2 hours at 100 c. Break up and enjoy! Keeps well, good in lunch boxes.

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 25-Apr-13 18:07:48

Miscph- I have never tried making pâté - that looks easy, and paleo/primal do encourage eating more organ meats... But, question, does it make the house pong of pâté?

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 25-Apr-13 18:08:17

Pate!

Pufflemum Thu 25-Apr-13 18:18:51

Hi everyone, can I join? I have been following the pale diet for two weeks now. Last week was great, I didn't crave sugar or carbs but the last two days have been horrific and I can't understand why. Has anyone else found the same? Also how do you find your weight loss? I only want to loose about 8 lbs but even after two weeks I am only 1 down.

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 25-Apr-13 18:53:32

Puffle - what have you been eating? As you only have a little weight to lose, you may need to cut carbs to quite low levels. Hunger usually means not enough fat/protein or too much carb(especially high gi).

teaandthorazine Thu 25-Apr-13 18:56:42

Hi pufflemum. My weightloss is definitely slower than when I was following 'pure' low carb. However, I think when you only have a few pounds to go, it does slow down quite considerably anyway.

Re: feeling bad, have you significantly cut carbs/sugar from what you were eating before? It's not unusual to get a bit of 'withdrawal' a few days in. Or you could just be poorly - it might not have anything to do with your diet! What are you eating on a daily basis?

snoworneahva Thu 25-Apr-13 18:58:31

Welcome to the Thread pufflemum Hope you feel better soon. I haven't weighed myself in ages - just want to eat healthily & get really fit....and hopefully get more sleep.

Inspired by a strawberry jam recipe on civilised caveman, I bought some Pectin which gels without sugar - made some blueberry & cinnamon freezer jam this afternoon for ds, who likes to eat jam in rather large spoonfuls with his porridge....at least now it's mostly fruit and it was really easy.

misscph1973 Thu 25-Apr-13 19:47:00

Is very easy to make paté! The paté cooking is not particularly smelly, but blending the liver is something you need to get used to, it looks quite awful ;) I forgot to add that you should melt butter/lard before adding to blender/food processor, but I don't really think it matters much. I have been told that making paté with half liver and half heart is also very nice, although I have not tried it myself. I love calf's hearts in cream, but the rest of the family doesn't like it so we never have it sad

pufflemum, it is quite common to suffer from "carb flu" when you make the change, even after starting off with no problems in the first week. Try some bone broth or just dissolve a stock cube (Kallo's is gluten free and organic) in hot water, it is very soothing, this really helped my dh when he made the change, he had quite bad carb flu (or was it man flu?). Also keep up the fat intake, you might need more than you expect in the beginning.

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 25-Apr-13 20:28:59

Lol, I can imagine it does look awful! I'm going to give it a go though.

Pufflemum Fri 26-Apr-13 07:33:53

Thanks for the support everyone. Typically in a day I eat, two eggs for breakfast, tuna and salad for lunch then meat or fish with veggies for dinner. In between I may have a few brazil nuts and fruit. I do work out hard now that the kids have gone back to school, so somedays I spin then do a body pump class , but then I am so hungry.

What do you get your fats from now that you are not eating dairy? I'm not a huge meat eater so would struggle with offal and the like.

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 26-Apr-13 08:39:21

Fats from- butter(ie cook mushrooms in it), plenty of butter! Also raw coconut oil, and avocados. Some double cream for coffee... Dairy fats are better tolerated by most people than milk products.

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 26-Apr-13 08:44:00

Paleo/primal/lchf... Some advocate butter/cream, some don't. Some advocate raw cheese and even raw milk, but usually after you have stopped eating them for at least a few weeks so you can see clearly if you tolerate it well.

snoworneahva Fri 26-Apr-13 08:48:57

Olive oil is fine on Paleo too. And clarified butter is better tolerated than butter as it contains less casein.

misscph1973 Fri 26-Apr-13 09:31:49

pufflemum, it does sound like you need to up your fat intake for fuel. When you eat few carbs, you need to replace them with fat.

A few pointers for upping fat intake:

Try making your own mayonnaise with light tasting olive oil. There are plenty of guides online (just search for paleo mayonnaise) and you quickly learn. It's great with tinned tuna.

I make paleo pesto with basil, olive oil, pumpkin seeds (my dh is allergic to pine nuts and they are too expensive anyway) and lemon juice/peel. You can make with any fresh herb (I get them on offer or from the local Asian shop) and pesto is great as a salad dressing or with steak.

Coconut milk is a good source of fat. I sometimes make a green smoothie of spinach, coconut milk and an avocado (another great fat, avocado oil is delicious, but expensive). Coconut oil is an excellent fat but expensive.

Make sure your salad is drenched in olive oil and pour olive oil over cooked veggies as well.

Lard is another popular paleo fat. I can't stand the smell when frying but I don't mind the taste.

You can also use goose fat or duck fat and you can even use the fat from cooking bacon (get the rashers, they are fattier than back bacon) for cooking.

When you buy mince, try to get the fattier versions. And make sure you get chicken fillets with skin on.

Fish: Sardines, mackerel, tuna and herring are the fattier fish.

snoworneahva, I didn't know that was why ghee/clarified butter is better tolerated. I recently got some from my local Asian shop and it's great stuff for cooking.

nappyaddict Fri 26-Apr-13 09:56:36

What does ghee taste like? Does it taste like butter or does it taste different?

thebestpossibletaste Fri 26-Apr-13 10:10:36

Thanks for all the info re coconute milk and kafir grains.

Misscph, if I'm avoiding dairy as much as possible (not diagnosed intolerance but suspect it causes me problems so have cut all dairy out of my diet apart from occasionally a little hard cheese which doesn't seem to affect me) will milk kafir grains be a problem possibly?

nappyaddict Fri 26-Apr-13 10:37:19

What do people have nut butters with?

nappyaddict Fri 26-Apr-13 10:47:46

Google tells me these are good ways to eat nut butters:

With fruit/veg/salad sticks

You can make pancake batter by mixing a big spoonful of nut butter with a mashed up banana and two eggs.

You can also use it in shakes and smoothies. Nut butters go very well with coconut milk in the blender.

If you have any bananas that are starting to get old throw them in the freezer... later cut them open and blend them together with a little bit of nut butter and some water if it's too thick. Makes a great ice-cream like smoothie.

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 26-Apr-13 11:36:22

And then there the "nut butter lollipop" option- scoop a spoonful out of the jar and lick off the spoon!

misscph1973 Fri 26-Apr-13 13:37:27

thebestpossibletaste , re coconut milk and milk kefir grains: You can rinse the kefir grains if they have been in milk. They are not made of milk, they just like to grow in milk. I "refeed" my kefir grains in (a small cup of) whole cow's milk every now and again, but many don't and they live just fine in coconut milk only. Alternatively you could "refeed" the kefir grains in whole goat's milk.

Having said that, many people handle cultured/fermented dairy much better than milk and cream.

I am like you, I have not officially got a diary intolerance, but I try to avoid it as I suspect it's not exactly optimal for me. I do drink the kefir milk from the "refeed" of the kefir grains, as no one else in the family wants it and I am not going to pour it down the sink.

nappyaddict, I haven't tasted ghee off a spoon, only cooked with it. It's quite mild, but not sharp as olive oil can be. Like an even mellower butter, I guess.

teaandthorazine Fri 26-Apr-13 19:11:50

I think ghee tastes like a slightly sweeter butter. I use it loads now for cooking - it makes chicken skin amazingly crispy!

Ok, so I have a confession to make. I've just eaten a couple of slices of pepperoni pizza. It used to be my favourite, I've had a long and knackering day at work, dp is out and I couldn't be bothered to cook so thought, why not?

It was completely dull, tedious and pappy. Totally pointless, tasteless and now I feel as if I've wasted my dinner. Plus, I'm going to be bloated and have heartburn within the next hour! Just goes to show... once you start eating real food, the processed stuff you used to love just tastes crappy and, well, processed. How annoying!

buildingmycorestrength Fri 26-Apr-13 19:53:35

I also have a confession. Ate loads of biscuits today cos I am premenstrual. Don't even care. Will be back on track soon. So strange to have that confidence that I can do it, having felt so out of control with food for so long.

RawCoconutMacaroon Fri 26-Apr-13 22:29:47

Tea and building... It's funny, but as time goes on, what I eat when having a cheat day has changed radically (and cheat days certainly seem to be related to hormonal cycle!).

Once you've done it a few times (had the pizza, eaten the kitkats), and you realise that actually it made you feel ill, didn't taste that great after all, you lose the desire(most of the time) smile

These days for me a cheat meal could be a plate of Total Greek yogurt (full fat) with a pile of berries and a spoon full of raw honey.
I don't eat very much fruit, and rarely have yogurt or honey/sugar so it tastes amazingly sweet and indulgent ... And doesn't leave me feeling bloated and ill like a slice of cake would.

Pufflemum Sat 27-Apr-13 13:53:23

Does anyone have any inspiration for a lovely Saturday night dinner? Last night was salmon and stuffed mushrooms, brunch today was scrambled eggs. I would really like something delish to look forward to, especially as DH cooks on a Saturday.

snoworneahva Sat 27-Apr-13 14:28:21

We always have steak on a Saturday night

worried90 Sat 27-Apr-13 15:49:09

Probably outing myself under my name change but hey sad
Fallen off paleo wagon due to stress and decisions about a v early pregnancy. Eggs and meat make me feel sick. Gutted because I've lost so much weight. Sciatica is back so I can't weight lift or do my usual circuits/crossfit so I'm feeling pretty crappy at the moment
Am off to the gym though to do some foam rolling and a gentle walk

RawCoconutMacaroon Sat 27-Apr-13 17:54:01

Worried90, sad flowers
Every day is a clean slate, just do what you can, when you can. Hope you feel better soon.

RawCoconutMacaroon Sat 27-Apr-13 18:02:32

Puffle -our dinner tonight is lamb shank done in the slow cooker (great as you get all the gelatin and marrow coming out of the bones, yummy and full of nutrients, fairly cheap too).

Chop carrot, onion, turnip and put at bottom of slow cooker with salt, pepper and herbs of your choice. Place one shank per person on top, add in a few more veg and herbs in the gaps round the meat and cook for about 10hrs

RawCoconutMacaroon Sat 27-Apr-13 18:03:51

On low. smile

worried90 Sat 27-Apr-13 18:44:12

Well today I've had a bowl of weetabix (threw up) and a cup of tea
A salad from salad bar (tried to make sure it was mainly eggs, and salad leaves and some ff mayo)
Beef casserole for tea (on its own)
Not horrendous. Managed some stretches at the gym and a brisk 20 min walk

Pufflemum Sun 28-Apr-13 10:12:47

Thanks for the supper ideas, we ended up with baked chicken curry from the River Cottage Everyday book. It's made with coconut milk, so has the fat and is very tasty. Roast beef for lunch today, I will skip the potatoes but include a sweet one for me.

Worried, hope you are ok and working through your situation. Have you tried peppermint tea for the nausea? It was one of the few things that worked for me. Keep strong.

Worried - I hope I'm not speaking out of turn but please don't beat yourself up about what you're eating/doing in early pregnancy. I know in my case I ate all sorts of rubbish in the early stages when the nausea and exhaustion were at their worst.

As my pregnancies progressed it became easier to eat healthily and do some gentle exercise but a few weeks of being off track won't completely derail you. You have made the biggest change - you know what a healthy diet is! If you had broken your leg and were stuck in hospital your diet choices would be pretty non paleo and you'd not be able to do any exercise but you wouldn't panic because you would know that once you were past the healing stage you have the tools to get back on track.

Both times I was pregnant I was convinced that my body and fitness were gone forever. My youngest is 2 and I'm now in the best shape of my life so please don't despair and please look after yourself.

worried90 Sun 28-Apr-13 16:03:17

Thank you. It's mainly the stress which is making me feel sick as I'm having to make a decision whether to continue with pregnancy

buildingmycorestrength Sun 28-Apr-13 16:09:17

worried that is really, really hard. Feel for you.

teaandthorazine Sun 28-Apr-13 17:47:32

Worried, that sounds tough. It sounds as if you have more important things in your mind than diet tbh. Hope you can work things out.

I've had a pretty poor weekend, paleo-wise! Far too much crap (started with the pizza on Friday, didn't massively improve blush). Have really noticed the effects of too many carbs and crap, especially on blood sugar. Felt shaky and sick earlier after eating a horrible cheeseburger (fgs!) at ds's football match today. What an idiot.

I did, however, make chocolate courgette brownies last night, which were great, especially with a dollop of double cream! Totally primal wink with very dark chocolate, a bit of almond flour and a splodge of honey. Well, had to use up the courgette glut somehow!

Tonight is low-carb sausages, eggs and sweet potato fries. Am looking forward to the veg box arriving tomorrow - want to get back to proper food! Weirdly, I have also lost some weight this week...though I guess the pizza and cheeseburger might change that.

snoworneahva Sun 28-Apr-13 20:14:04

worried look after yourself.

Had a few cheats this weekend. Saturday night was steak onions mushrooms and sweet potato wedges - simple and lovely.

Today we tried the kippers but they were too bony, and after spending 10mins removing bones from one fish I abandoned the whole thing - kippers are not for me!

So after a 60 in run breakfast was a coconut flour muffin with smokey bacon and egg, lovely. And then 2 hours tidying up the garden I treated myself to a gingerbread square

For dinner we had meat balls with tomato sauce, dcs had gluten free pasta and the adults had courgette ribbons.

For pudding we had a homemade gluten free shortbread with puréed apple and options of thick double cream, ice cream, cinnamon, honey and maple syrup. All very lovely.

buildingmycorestrength Sun 28-Apr-13 22:20:32

snow sorry, but a 60 inch run just isn't that impressive, you know. wink. grin.

Totally paleo again today (well, with dairy). No problem for some reason. So so satisfying.

RawCoconutMacaroon Sun 28-Apr-13 22:48:27

Worried, sorry you're having a tough time sad hope you manage to work through things soon.

MacaYoniAndCheese Sun 28-Apr-13 22:51:38

Oh, poor you, worried. I feel for you...worst feeling ever flowers. Don't try and force yourself to eat anything....just go with what you think you can stomach. Have you tried soup, or broth? When I had pregnancy nausea I couldn't even think about vegetables or meat at the beginning but sometimes could handle them if they were in soup. The salt, I guess.
Anyway, hope you feel better soon smile.

I had a paleo fail (faileo?) this weekend too...there were some black bean tortilla chips in the pantry and I just had to have something salty-crunchy...you know how this ends grin.

No other interesting paleo meals of note...it has been a busy weekend and I need to go shopping tomorrow, so we've been clearing out the fridge and freezer of bits-and-bobs <boring alert>.

worried90 Sun 28-Apr-13 22:58:05

Well I've had a bleed and shoulder pain so I have a early scan on Tuesday. Any more will out me but one of my parents has spoken to a friend (that already knew) wink about my pregnancy and I don't feel she would have done that if she thought there was only one option
Today's diet was the biggest paleo fail ever grin but I'm just eating what I want basically. A guy was eating beef crisps in hospital and I nearly threw up on him gringrin

nappyaddict Mon 29-Apr-13 14:16:12

I had a really good primal day yesterday.

Tuna and egg mayonnaise salad with parmesan for brunch.

Roast chicken, butternut squash mash, baby corn and green beans (actually I'm not sure if these are allowed?), carrots and cauliflower. I did cheat with gravy though as I used granules. Does anyone have a primal gravy recipe?

Frozen raspberries zapped for 2 minutes in the microwave and double cream.

Glass of red wine.

Today I head a chicken lettuce wrap/roll up for breakfast.

Just had left over cottage pie with cheesy swede topping and steamed veg.

Tomorrow I would like to do Cheesy Chicken Roll Ups for dinner.

RawCoconutMacaroon Mon 29-Apr-13 17:18:43

In theory Nappy, no beans or corn however, I suspect the baby corn and runner bean type beans ( ie immature seed in their pod) probably don't have the problematic proteins and other substances that make the mature corn/peas bad (I may be talking bollox grin)

Gravy - well I usually transfer any juices from the cooking to a frying pan, reduce it a bit than swirl in some cream.

teaandthorazine Mon 29-Apr-13 17:19:24

All sounds seriously good, nappy!

worried, hope things are okay with you flowers

M&S have started doing a delish deli pot with asparagus, courgette and feta - had one for lunch today and added some prawns... yum. Not sure what's for dinner yet though!

What's happened to the OP, btw? We've rather hijacked her thread!

teaandthorazine Mon 29-Apr-13 17:22:31

Yes, agree with raw - I think green beans especially should be fine as the legume bit is so tiny?

FavadiCacao Mon 29-Apr-13 18:41:26

worried flowers I'll be thinking of you tomorrow.

nappy meat juices seem to go down well regardless! But a gelatine sheet works well as thickening agent.

shock @ cheating! I've learned to make paleo (depending on your strictness!!!) bread, pizza and cake...But I still crave home made pasta! grin

snoworneahva Mon 29-Apr-13 21:06:02

Building grin

No interesting meals to report today as dh and I fast on a Monday - we always have chicken curry for evening meal, today served with spring greens, they taste remarkably sweet this time of year. Dcs had curry too, but I added coconut milk to their's and they had it with brown rice.

On holiday this week, at my mother's, I suspect I will end up eating wheat and regretting it, I will try to resist but my mother will bake bread and will expect me to eat it....and will be likely to take great offence at me refusing - given that it won't actually kill me!

Anyone else struggle with family occasions?

snoworneahva Mon 29-Apr-13 21:08:48

Favadi what are your favourite cheat recipes for bread and pizza?

teaandthorazine Tue 30-Apr-13 07:33:16

Mmmm, last night's supper was lush. Made a huge Spanish omelette with onions, red peppers, mushrooms, courgette and chorizo, and herbs from the window box. Served with broccoli roasted with garlic and some lovely baby tomatoes. Followed by frozen raspberries and banana with cream. It feels so good to be eating proper food after the weekend's excesses! And chorizo makes everything taste good, doesn't it?

Have planted strawberries, red chard, spinach, chillies, mint, basil, thyme and rosemary in the last couple of weeks. All crowded onto my tiny flat balcony. We'll be virtually self-sufficient in no time grin

FavadiCacao Tue 30-Apr-13 08:24:20

The bread is a variation of 'Muffin in a minute'

30g Flaxseed meal (or a mix of flaxseed and almond flour)
1tbs olive oil (or 10g butter)
1 egg
pinch of salt (or a pinch of bicarbonate for a fluffier bun)

Mix all together in a mug and cook in the microwave for 1min 30 sec. I cut it into little wheels. It also freezes well.

Pizza

45g flaxseed meal
45g coconut flour
3 eggs
1/4tsp salt
90ml milk/coconut milk (optional)
Spices and herbs (optional)

Line a biscuit tray with greaseproof paper. Mix the ingredients together-it will look like pancake batter. Pour the batter mixture on the lined tray and bake for 10-15*mins at 220C. Turn the pizza over and bake for a further 5-10* mins. Add topping of choice and return to oven for a few mins.
*The longer times are necessary if using milk.

misscph1973 Tue 30-Apr-13 09:43:51

Does anyone have trouble adjusting the ratio of meat/fat/veg/carbs on their plate? I find that as a family our needs differ greatly. My dh can pack away astonishing amounts of meat (we suspect he is "repairing" as he has had a lot of issues including back pain, physical stress symptoms and long recovery from workouts) as can ds (he is nearly 6 and very lean and skinny, growing very fast). Dd (8) and I are better with a smaller amount of meat, plenty of veg and fat and some carbs. I guess that is rather typical ;)

Re carbs, I know that some people go very low carb on Paleo. I give my children plenty (although not too much!) of carbs but my husband is very low carb and I am kind of in the middle.

I am fasting this morning, I try to skip breakfast twice a week. I have done a couple of 24 hour fasts, but I find that if distracts me too much from work ;)

Me and the kids are going to Denmark, our native country, for 5 weeks in the summer holidays. I really worry about keeping up the good work! I know my mum is happy to support us but as there will be a couple of family gatherings I am worried about that. I guess I just have to do the best I can!

thebestpossibletaste Tue 30-Apr-13 10:12:39

I've been very low carb for ten months now but find recently I've been fancying oats. Does anyone make muesli/porridge without sugar? I try to be dairy free too, so am thinking maybe I can use coconut milk?

misscph1973 Tue 30-Apr-13 10:20:53

thebestpossibletaste, I guess you know that oats are a grain, so not primal? I have terrible cravings for oat biscuits (Hobnobs), but I have not caved in yet ;)

In the past I always made porridge without sugar. You should be able to make porridge with coconut milk, but I would advise that you use half water. I have made rice pudding in the past with coconut-milk, and it was definitely best with half water.

teaandthorazine Tue 30-Apr-13 11:16:03

misscph - must admit I don't spend too much time thinking about ratios (maybe I should?!) though I suppose I tend to go heavy on the veg and fat.

I do try to keep my carbs low because I am convinced it is healthier and I definitely feel better without them, but saying that I am probably between 20-100g on any given day, so quite a range. I do think everyone is different (though pretty much no-one needs the level of carbs advised by the department of health imo), so my 10-year-old, very active, very lean ds will get rice, bread, more fruit than me, for example.

Wrt oats etc, I recently made a porridge with ground almonds, cinnamon, double cream, chopped nuts and blueberries (and a raw egg but I don't think everyone would go for that!) It was delicious and definitely filled that 'breakfast cereal' gap. I would try and stay away from grains really, though oats probably a slight improvement over wheat?

teaandthorazine Tue 30-Apr-13 11:17:32

thebestpossibletaste - I would definitely give my almond porridge a try with coconut milk, probably delicious! Though yes, might need thinning a bit with some water.

thebestpossibletaste Tue 30-Apr-13 11:30:23

Sounds good teaandthorazine, I'll try and get some ground almonds. did you just mix them together, did you heat them up?

I know oats are grains but I'm really fancying something easy for breakfast that is a bit porridgy when I have to get up early for work as I can't really take breakfast to work.

If I made rice pudding with coconut milk, is that also classed as grains? And how would I make it, same as rice pudding, in the oven but with coconut milk instead of milk?

snoworneahva Tue 30-Apr-13 14:41:57

Miss cp sounds like you have your family's needs sussed. Dh and I just eat the same things - we are similar height, I am more active though. We eat more or less the same amount - we fast twice a week and eat lowish carb, we don't count, I have a weakness for sugary treats and he has a weakness for cheese and savoury, we both love a drink or two. We've managed to maintain our weights for a year now.
The dcs are very skinny - my main focus with them is that food is tasty and nutritionally dense. They get a homemade paleo cheat treat every day - which is better than the junk thy could otherwise be eating, I want them to feel positive about eating Paleo and getting too strict with them would be counterproductive.

Breakfast this morning was using up fridge food before spoiling, a fig wrapped in bacon with a drop or two of balsamic vinegar - could have done with a nice soft fresh cheese to balance out the flavours but it all disappeared nonetheless.
Chicken curry with cauli rice for lunch.
Am going to have jerk chicken and coleslaw for dinner.

Thanks for the recipes Favadi have banked them for future use.

Bought the kindle versions of omg that's paleo and paleo comfort foods last night, had a quick flick through and they look good - does anyone else have these books - any recipe recommendations. My cooking mojo is on fire at the moment, I'm like an over excited puppy! grin

RawCoconutMacaroon Tue 30-Apr-13 17:09:32

Grain free porridge - small pot organics 100% fruit baby purée (or make your own), mix with ground almonds or nut butter, microwave for about a min. That's my toddler's breakfast most days, tastes pretty good, would be nice with a swirl of cream or a few berries as a grown up breakfast, and as fast as a bowl of cereal smile.

misscp your DH sounds just like me - physical stress symptoms, long recovery times etc. I go through phases of waking up in the morning having dreamt about eating meat and craving protein. Does loading up with protein help him?

I tried a good paleo muesli recipe. Can't link from my phone but if you google Eat Drink Paleo or paleo granola it should come up. Has quite a lot of malple syrup in (I'd use less the next time I make it) but a good starter idea.

Totally shattered today. Went to the gym on Sunday and really aching today but also just feeling lethargic and fed up. I ate some naan bread last night and a bit of cake this morning but have otherwise been very paleo so am surprised to feel so tired. But it's a good reminder that I used to feel like this every day!

thebestpossibletaste Tue 30-Apr-13 23:24:47

Rawcoconut that sounds great. What nut butter do you use?

thebestpossibletaste Tue 30-Apr-13 23:25:38

Intravenous, I'll have a look and see if I can find the recipe. Thanks.

RawCoconutMacaroon Wed 01-May-13 07:23:49

Thebest, I use Biona nut butters usually, I get them mail order as they are not stocked locally (I use goodnessdirect, but there are loads of online grocery shops). The Biona butters are just nut, no sugar or veg oil. Usually Almond or white Almond (tastes fantastic but the white stuff is a bit pricy).

RawCoconutMacaroon Wed 01-May-13 07:39:08

Dietdoctor.com does a very tasty grain free musli recipe on his lchf blog (Swedish paleo/primal) its a good blog too, if you like the science side of things.

Its a mix of seeds and nuts (mixed small seeds, some nuts and a few fresh berries to garnish) served with double cream mixed with live yogurt. It is amazingly filling, so only a very small portion needed, but a lovely luxury breakfast treat.
I serve it in little ramekins, that's a perfect serving size.

RawCoconutMacaroon Wed 01-May-13 07:57:57

Musli link

http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf-breakfast-in-the-summer

Right, need a strict paleo day today to get back on track. Really don't want to feel rubbish again today. Will try the lamb shank recipe further up thread.

Breakfast is paleo muesli with Greek yogurt and a cup of coffee with cream. Then omelette for lunch I think with lots of veg. There is some sun smile so might take DS to the park for some sun and play (ticking lots of primal boxes there)

Love this thread!

Macaroon Do you put any liquid in the slow cooker with the lamb and veggies or is it okay without?

nappyaddict Wed 01-May-13 09:04:22

I don't put veggies in with mine because I find they are too greasy. I do put onion quarters in which i then whizz up in juices to make gravy.

For breakfast I tried something new and it was delicious.

2 tablespoon of ground almonds, 2 tablespoons of flaked almonds, almond butter, double cream, sprinkle of dried coconut and frozen berries. Put in the microwave for 1 minute and stirred all together.

nappyaddict Wed 01-May-13 09:07:39
thebestpossibletaste Wed 01-May-13 11:12:06

Thanks Raw, I'll take a look at the nut butters.

misscph1973 Wed 01-May-13 13:04:00

The ground almonds porridge sounds yummy! Re rice, it's something Mark Sissons describes as "fairly benign" (it is gluten free), but technically it is a grain. Note, however, that in the updated version of The Primal Blueprint, he includes quinoa as Primal, if you fancy it.

Oats are definitely much better than wheat, the gluten content is almost 0. But it is still a grain ;) It's the kind of thing that I would probably allow my children, but they never ask for anything with oats.

I would not recommend making paleo porridge in the oven like rice pudding, I was just comparing porridge to rice pudding because both are made with milk. I think hob or microwave would be best, and it shouldn't take long to get the desired consistency.

Queenofwhatever, my dh reckons it's the omega 3 is grass fed beef that is making him better, but I suspect that protein over load also helps As a former vegetarian/vegan I still struggle a bit with eating lots of meat, but perhaps it is also a sign that I just don't need that much protein. I prefer having more fat, I love home made mayonnaise and pesto!

I love nut butters to, but they are very expensive.

I just had Buffalo burger from Laverstock for lunch, lovely! Only had them because I found them in the reduced section at Waitrose for half price due to expiry date. I actually save a lot of money by checking out the reduced section of my local Waitrose, I doubt that I could afford Paleo if I didn't do that!

nappyaddict Wed 01-May-13 13:49:42

Where do you get grass fed beef and mince from?

Xenia Wed 01-May-13 14:41:33

Quite a lot of UK cattle compared to in the US are living in fields eating grass (we can see them in various parts of the country) so I don't think we have the same grass fed v other foods fed issue the USA has here in the UK.

I have not listened to it yet but there is a radio 4 programme which was on last night at 8pm on "Constant Cravings" which may be interesting - I presume it will say that foods like sugar make you crave them (and healthy foods like eggs, fish, meat, veg etc do not).

RawCoconutMacaroon Wed 01-May-13 14:46:36

ivcoffee, I rarely put liquid in the slow cooker - I know the instruction book tells you to cover everything with water, I have no idea why!

For some things I might be using some purée tomato, but any veg you put in releases water and it doesn't boil away. I often remove some of that, reduce it down a bit then add it back to the slow cooker as a slightly thicker sauce.

I always pack loads of veg in - one persons "too greasy" is another persons "all the flavour of the meat"! Just do what you like the taste of grin.

misscph1973 Wed 01-May-13 14:52:58

I buy grass fed meat from a company called Athleat. The meat is fantastic, but they have recently changed the mince packs from 500 g to 400 g without lowering the price, so I am not best pleased and I am looking to get my meat elsewhere. I am told that eastlondonsteak.co.uk is really good as well, and I asked them if their meat was grass fed, and it is, though not exclusively.

Xenia is right, though, cattle in the UK is generally of good quality, and most free range cattle are fed primarily grass. I don't personally mind if they get some grains, I will still buy it. I still buy meat from supermarkets, mainly Waitrose and only on offer.

The radio program looks interesting, thanks.

RawCoconutMacaroon Wed 01-May-13 14:54:32

Nappy- not always easy, specialist butchers, local farm shops may have, but typically UK, especially Scottish, lamb tends to be grass fed for the majority of the time anyway, even if not labeled (I have a Scottish farming background), Scottish hill beef also, typically will only be given grains in winter, sometimes not at all).

Grass fed, grass finished may be the optimum but remember even grain fed whole cuts of meat are better for you than processed meat products full of god knows what.

MacaYoniAndCheese Thu 02-May-13 11:44:56

Just wanted to check-in to see how y'all are feeling? Energy levels? Cravings? I haven't had any slip-ups since the tortilla chip incident and am feeling pretty good (the recent sunshine is helping too, though). No cravings, except at the end of the day and that's usually satisfied by some dark chocolate or some fruit. Last night I had a microwave baked apple-cored apple filled with butter, cinnamon, a little drizzle of maple syrup and a dash of water. Like apple pie, without the pie smile.

What is everyone doing about dairy and wine?

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 02-May-13 12:57:04

Oh yes, apple pie without the pie is good! You can stuff them with rasins or other dried fruit for a nice sweet cheat which is still grain free.

Dairy- I do use grassfed butter, and double cream (did I see you mention being American previously? I think that's what you'd call heavy cream?).
No milk though, lactose intolerant, though small amounts don't bother me.

Wine, I don't (migraine trigger), I drink potato vodka, or 100% agave tequila - both are grain free.

UserError Thu 02-May-13 13:07:30

Hi all, is there is corner for me to squeeze into? I have dates and figs! <offers them round>

I'm what you'd call a serial dieter - tried most things, ended up heavier than ever. I tried going primal a while back while I was recovering from a serious illness and it didn't go too well as I think the lack of carbs made my fatigue worse. It's a year on now and I'm trying again - this will be day 2.

I'm using my fitness pal to track macronutrients and yesterday it shouted at me for being 21 calories under my 1200 goal. I was amazed - I had LOADS of food and didn't feel deprived at all. Breakfast was two eggs chopped up with butter, inside some rolled-up ham. Didn't have lunch as such because I wasn't hungry, but nibbled on some fish sticks. Dinner was a garlic baked Camembert with cucumber crudités and baby tomatoes.

Today: Breakfast was coffee with cream and 1/2 tsp coconut oil. Lunch was pâté spread on cucumber slices, cherry tomatoes, an avocado and a slice of cheese.

teaandthorazine Thu 02-May-13 14:28:55

Hello all, hope you're following your primal instincts and getting your vitamin D topped up in the sun! Have just had a rather nice lunch of grilled courgette, pepper and mushrooms with plenty of olive oil and herbs, plus some of those yummy and rather addictive sweet peppers stuffed with goats cheese... plus an apple and a litre of water. Second lunch outside in a week - wonderful! (Even if it was in the middle of London, outside is outside!)

Last night was homemade burgers with a fab, knocked-together coleslaw made from carrot, cabbage, celery and kohlrabi. Am slightly ashamed to say that's the first time I've ever made my own coleslaw - it was delicious. Did have a bit of 85% Lindt and a cheeky g&t while watching Masterchef too...

Really interesting conversation at lunch with a colleague who is a strict vegan. While our actual eating habits are worlds apart, our philosophy of food is surprisingly similar - as un-interfered-with as possible, organic whenever we can, as ethical as we can be (obviously she and I differ on what exactly ethical means, but there we go!), real food rather than products, lots of fat. I can't help noticing she's always pale, tired and complaining about some physical ailment or other though wink

Xenia Thu 02-May-13 15:07:11

tea, I think that is true. Most people who eat healthily have a lot more in common than those who eat processed foods. I do think fish, eggs, meat is good though and what we ate for 2 million years along with lots of veg etc.

(Just came in from my post lunch Vit D bathe in the rather hot sun; long may it last)

RawCoconutMacaroon Thu 02-May-13 17:44:19

Tea, I'd wager... Oh 50p at least grin that your health conscious friend would feel and look a lot better If she ditched grains (next to impossible for a vegan I'd imagine), and started eating some form of animal protein.

Ethical eggs maybe? I suppose you'd have to raise them yourself to be sure...

Shell fish? Prawns?

In the scheme of things, I'd have less of a problem eating those for the benefit of my health, in the highly unlikely event of me becoming vegan Iykwim!

Its everyone's choice of course, what they eat, or don't.

nappyaddict Thu 02-May-13 19:56:41

Has anyone tried egg tortillas instead of tortilla wraps?

I saw them on this recipe for Enchiladas but was wondering if they would be any good for burritos or fajitas? Not sure if they'd be sturdy enough.