Mozhe IS NOT going back to work next week after all......

(819 Posts)
mozhe Mon 16-Jul-07 13:36:13

.....no, have decided to delay it by a week or so......Mr Mozhe is on 'incubator watching' duties....P-in-L's are manning the home front,( and DSsX3...), with nice new aupair....and Mozhe,Nanny and DTs are off to St Barts,( in lovely Carribean...),for a week's sun/swim/chill out !!
Any one been before ? Any pointers ? Off first thing tomorrow......

GroaningGameGirly Mon 16-Jul-07 13:37:41

Enjoy your break, Mozhe. Don't know how you can leave your new LO, though (although I know he's in safe hands and everything.) How is he, by the way?

margosbeenplayingwithmynoonoo Mon 16-Jul-07 13:37:47

How the other half lives!

mumblechum Mon 16-Jul-07 13:38:11

Never been to that partic. corner of the Carribean, but hope you have a fab time.

(ps, don't let anyone try to make you feel guilty about leaving little Mozhe. Unless you've done the sitting in SCBU for weeks on end, you don't know how utterly draining it is.)

FGS woman didn't you just have a baby last week or something?

LilRedWG Mon 16-Jul-07 13:38:45

Enjoy your break with the DTs - you have earnt it!

HuwEdwards Mon 16-Jul-07 13:38:52

Just one tip



take me with you

magnolia1 Mon 16-Jul-07 13:40:17

Oh enjoy your chill out time, you deserve it xxxx

goingfor3 Mon 16-Jul-07 13:40:18

Well sounds as if you will enjoy yourself but I don't know how anyone could go away leaving a newborn baby in SCBU.

For a week no less

GroaningGameGirly Mon 16-Jul-07 13:41:37

Any room in your suitcase for me?!

StressedEric Mon 16-Jul-07 13:41:37

It takes all sorts...

Dottydot Mon 16-Jul-07 13:42:07

Mozhe - I hope you have a wonderful break - you deserve it and quite right that you get some time away.

oranges Mon 16-Jul-07 13:42:10

have a great time.

MamaMaiasaura Mon 16-Jul-07 13:43:04

just dont get it. Glad you LO is doing ok and that you are well but just dont get your choices. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

GroaningGameGirly Mon 16-Jul-07 13:44:31

Whilst I don't understand it either, Mozhe does have several other children who can't be forgotten. It will be wonderful for the DTs to spend a bit of time with their mum, whom they presumably haven't seen much of recently. Enjoy, I say.

How are you going to express milk for him while you are away? I couldn't do it I really couldn't.

<have never sat in scbu disclaimer>

RubyRioja Mon 16-Jul-07 13:45:15

Bizzare!

Playmobil Mon 16-Jul-07 13:48:58

erm sounds lovely but have you looked at dvt risks, i may be wrong but I thing the risk is greatly increased in you have recently had a baby

geekgirl Mon 16-Jul-07 13:50:13

have sat in ICU and still don't get it...

enjoy, anyway

morningpaper Mon 16-Jul-07 13:51:11

Is this your way of saying "SHOULD I DO THIS?"

Don't do it

IsabelWatchingItRainInMacondo Mon 16-Jul-07 13:51:16

I don't get it, have you found a wet nurse too?

mozhe Mon 16-Jul-07 13:52:13

Mr Mozhe is taking over, so DS willl not being abandoned....DT2 is my human breast pump.....there is a supply of EBM left for Tristan...he consumes tiny amounts..if he gets through that lot he can pick me up from airport
He sleeps A LOT.....feel Mr Mozhe,( + laptop no doubt..),can watch him for the moment.
I need a holiday.

TootyFrooty Mon 16-Jul-07 13:52:50

DS2 was in nicu for just a few days and that was pants. However, I couldn't leave him for more than a few minutes and certainly couldn't travel thousands of miles away for a holiday whilst he was in there.

Different strokes and all that.

Ho hum.

MamaMaiasaura Mon 16-Jul-07 13:53:47

am going to leave this thread as have decided that my views are very different and really dont want to upset anyone. Especially when you have a newborn in special care.

morningpaper Mon 16-Jul-07 13:54:29

Of course you need a holiday

but you also need to be physically near your baby for your own mental health

you must know this woman!

have you made this decision so I just just STFU?

goingfor3 Mon 16-Jul-07 13:54:34

I'm sure everyone in your situation feels they need a holiday. What happens if (I really hope this doesn't happen) your baby rapidly gets ill, will you ever be able to forgive yourself for not being there?

Enid Mon 16-Jul-07 13:54:40

lol

glad your newone is well enough for you to leave him. Am sure mr Mozhe will do a great job.


Personally I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than leave a poorly child for a week, but agree that you have to think about your DTs and obviously they will be NEEDING a week in st barts

apologies for thinly veiled jealousy

mozhe Mon 16-Jul-07 13:54:40

DVT is a small risk....but will be able to walk around in commodious cabin,( it is a nice present from P-in-L's....the flight..), and will take aspirin too...

Dottydot Mon 16-Jul-07 13:55:15

I think that's the point - we're all different and Mozhe needs a holiday - so I hope she has a great time.

Enid Mon 16-Jul-07 13:56:23

why does she need a holiday?

She has given birth - big whup.

morningpaper Mon 16-Jul-07 13:56:27

Just GO TO BED for a few days

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 13:58:23

did I miss the post where Mozhe asked to be talked out of her holiday rather than if anyone had been to St barts?

Dottydot Mon 16-Jul-07 13:58:28

Enid!! She's had/having a really stressful time and we all react differently. If a holiday's the right thing it's the right thing and if she felt it was wrong she wouldn't be going!

edam Mon 16-Jul-07 13:58:40

Good to hear baby is well enough to be left in the no-doubt capable hands of Mr Mozhe. And be DSx3 wil love spending time with grandparents. Will be fab for DTs to have some 2:1 time with mummy, I'm sure.

Don't get why anyone else is criticising you, tbh, they don't know your kids and the way your family works.

Dottydot Mon 16-Jul-07 13:58:52

Kew!!

StarryStarryNight Mon 16-Jul-07 13:58:59


Ok, fair play, your life your choices, if you want to leave your poorly newborn in SCBU and all that, could you not found a destination closer to home? Do they not have sun sea, sand and coctails in Italy, or Madeira?

And what about your newborn? Is he too young to miss him mum? Too young to be comforted by the familiar smells and sounds of mum?

I think I need to leave work early and get DS2 a great big cuddle.

mozhe Mon 16-Jul-07 13:59:21

AWEN et al....people are different, that is true.
I would not leave him if his father could not be with him. His father can so I feel he will be well looked after. I can stay in touch with developments easily.
True things could go wrong,( but my being there will not prevent that ),but over 2 weeks in...nothing has so I,( and his doctors ), feel it is unlikely it will now...but obviously you cannot never be sure.
DTs do not need St Barts...I do !!!

snort at big whup.

TheCodDelusion Mon 16-Jul-07 13:59:26

you are obviosuly barking

i hope you dont relax at all

why do you HAVE kids?

Dottydot Mon 16-Jul-07 13:59:55

Do you know, it's threads like this that really wind me up. We're such horrible cows to each other sometimes...

RubyRioja Mon 16-Jul-07 13:59:58

Hey Coddler - say what you really mean

Dottydot Mon 16-Jul-07 14:00:16

Cod!!!!!!!

Dottydot Mon 16-Jul-07 14:00:26

Stepping away from the thread....

TheCodDelusion Mon 16-Jul-07 14:00:29

well she must be intterly unhingedd

TheCodDelusion Mon 16-Jul-07 14:00:53

WHAT a nutter. HOW could you leave a tiny, ill, preemie new baby and bugger off to the other side of teh world for a week for a beach holiday?

ruddynorah Mon 16-Jul-07 14:01:04

not sure i could have a relaxing holiday while my very premature baby was in an incubater. ah well, each to their own. i guess you enjoy the sort of reactions you get to these sorts of threads.

Nbg Mon 16-Jul-07 14:01:16

Blimey O riley!

Each to their own Mozhe and I'm sure St Barts will be fab but I have to agree with Cod,
you are barking woman!

RubyRioja Mon 16-Jul-07 14:01:24

You sound all fuzzy and maternal Cod!

TheCodDelusion Mon 16-Jul-07 14:01:30

i agree wiht cod too

TheCodDelusion Mon 16-Jul-07 14:01:52

WHY does he have kids and spends her life runign away fomr them
wihte rto work or to the carri farkign bean

Enid Mon 16-Jul-07 14:02:27

Sorry but I think it is wrong

properly wrong

not just 'I dont like your shoes' wrong

so therefore I feel totally justified in criticising mozhes decision

morningpaper Mon 16-Jul-07 14:02:37

mozhe you have said before that you don't feel like you have had a baby and sound like you are in shock - wouldn't a few days bed rest or just being pampered be a good idea first?

I hope it all goes well xxx

RubyRioja Mon 16-Jul-07 14:02:40

I want to go to the carri farkign bean

TheCodDelusion Mon 16-Jul-07 14:02:53

totally wrong
whaty if she is very ill sunddely?
eys the dad is hter but oculd oyu ever fogive yourself
nwo is not the time

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 14:03:02

saying that it isn't something you would do is a bit pointless isn't it? there's lots of things I wouldn't do that other people have done, would go out of my way to point this out to them unless they asked - she has five other children and has had premmies before and doesn't seem to be an unintelligent woman. Presumably she is accepting the risk involved in being away for a week.

TheCodDelusion Mon 16-Jul-07 14:03:21

infection?
the baby is not eeven term ?

nearlythere Mon 16-Jul-07 14:03:22

barking!!!!

GroaningGameGirly Mon 16-Jul-07 14:03:29

Well I agree too, Cod, but I'm trying to be open-minded it and see it from all angles ...!

TheCodDelusion Mon 16-Jul-07 14:03:50

dont
s eh is WRONG

and neglectful

Yurtgirl Mon 16-Jul-07 14:03:58

mozhe - Given that many people spend years trying for a baby and fail I find it sickening that you have had quite a few (and recently a new one) and yet you happily scoot about on holiday, work etc.

Whats the point of you having kids exactly? I dont get it!

RubyRioja Mon 16-Jul-07 14:04:05

Actually, true that Mozhe did not ask for opinions, but some things just demand a response

TootyFrooty Mon 16-Jul-07 14:04:19

I have to say I wouldn't leave my toddler children even now to go on a week's holiday thousands of miles away - I'm far too soft and would miss them terribly. And I enjoy spending time with them.

mozhe Mon 16-Jul-07 14:04:36

Want to come Kew + Dotty ?
I know some people would not do this but it feels absolutely right to me....he will not miss me. We do not know each other well yet...his Dad will have a chance to get to know him a bit better too...
Am more worried about DSs having been given a Nintendo Weii....hope they don't play on it all the time..
DH will go to St Barts with DSs and aupair when I get back....just in case anyone thinks they are being short changed

Enid Mon 16-Jul-07 14:05:16

of course it s not pointless

can never understand people who start threads then expect everyone to agree with them

if you were in SBCU and saw a tinsy baby in an incubator and heard the mother had gone to the Caribbean for a holdiay what would you think, really honestly?

and if anyone says 'well I would respect her decision and of course we cannot judge ' then you are talking bolleaux

HuwEdwards Mon 16-Jul-07 14:05:30

Mozhe - when I responded initially, I thought when I saw
'incubator watching' duties

blimey she has a newborn baby. Then I thought, nah can't be talking about a baby, she's also on about going back to work.

Must be talking about a pet. Honestly this is what I thought.


I really, really, hope you don't regret your decision.

morningpaper Mon 16-Jul-07 14:06:32

seriously I don't think that there is much to be gained about shouting that she is a neglectful/bad mother

But I do think that you sound like you are in shock tbh - and your body undoubtedly is still reeling from hormones etc, never mind your emotional health

If you and your family honestly think this is themost sensible thing for your and your baby's health then do it

Enid Mon 16-Jul-07 14:06:35

I would feel more worried for you if you actually do manage to relax in St Barts

Yurtgirl Mon 16-Jul-07 14:06:41

Part of the reason you do not know each other well yet is because you are clearly not that interested in getting to know him

If you were you would not be going on holiday

MamaMaiasaura Mon 16-Jul-07 14:06:52

he is prob shagging the au pair.

StarryStarryNight Mon 16-Jul-07 14:07:17

I am sorry, I am going to go away now. I have close friends who have LIVED in NICU/SCBU for long time, and friends who have lost their premature babies, friends who spend their life grieving and regret any second spent away from their littles, whose only thought is if I could only held baby just ONCE more.... and then there is you, jetting off to luxurious st barts because holiday is nice. I think I am going to be sick.

MintyDixCharrington Mon 16-Jul-07 14:07:18

I must say leaving a very very preemie in an incubator to go 9 hours flight away strikes me as an utterly bizarre thing to do. If you need sun and sand and a holiday, what is wrong with France?! It is July, after all. Mozhe, I know I named this kid, and we've had a few laughs, but I really think you are the living proof of my theory that all psychiatrists are nutters

Enid Mon 16-Jul-07 14:07:20

your dh must be mad too

IsabelWatchingItRainInMacondo Mon 16-Jul-07 14:07:22

Mozhe, not having a go at you, honestly, but considering your plans and your specialism, [please be patient with me], I have always wondered if the following is just pseudo psychological babble used to inflict unnecesary guilt in new mums:

What are your views on "Bonding"?

Please feel free not to answer now. It would be very nice to know that after all, babies are not soooooo sensitive to our early choices as we have been made to believe.

No sarcasm on this, honestly.

TheCodDelusion Mon 16-Jul-07 14:07:32

AND THERE MY MATE SHOPPINGBAGS WIHT her ONYL SON WHO IS 14 MONTSH who may well ahev cnacer worrying her heart out ashe has a biopsy

and there this.
words fail me
am orf

zookeeper Mon 16-Jul-07 14:07:35

Good for you for going but can't help wondering if you're posting for approval

Nbg Mon 16-Jul-07 14:07:37

But Mozhe of course he knows you well enough.
He knows your sound, your smell, your touch.

I find it sad that you've had that bad a time that your leaving your premature son to go to the Caribbean.
You must have really been through some shit.

zookeeper Mon 16-Jul-07 14:08:08

If you are you have mine

Enid Mon 16-Jul-07 14:08:37

go to fricking Babington House for the weekend like normal people

o fgs dont go anywaher

you dont DESERVE a holiday - your job is to be with your baby and help him through this horrible time

have a holiday later

mozhe Mon 16-Jul-07 14:09:07

I didn't think it would make people feel so cross...sorry !
Honestly thought it would be a 'sarongs and crocs' thread.....
He is my DH's baby too....he is fine...prem and little but not ill....they will have a great time together.
Bed and lolling around house are not my thing....I am hoping to waterski for first time.

Enid Mon 16-Jul-07 14:09:33

lolol at waterskiing

MintyDixCharrington Mon 16-Jul-07 14:09:37

(and obviously HE won't miss YOU, he is too small. I think all of us are a bit shocked about how little YOU will miss HIM and how little you seem to care that if he becomes ill or anything worse, you will not be able to be there)

LittleLupin Mon 16-Jul-07 14:10:10

Well, I'm guessing from the frivolous nature of your posts, mozhe, that Tristan is perfectly healthy and you have no concerns about him? (genuine question, not a dig)

I think you're barking but hey, your children, your choice <shrug>

JodieG1 Mon 16-Jul-07 14:10:17

I agree with Enid and Cod. My first baby was in scbu for a week and it was a terrible time. She was 36 weeks as well and weighed 5lb 14 and a half. We were there all the time with her and couldn't have left her for a week. Shocked really. Hope baby is doing well but I don't think you're doing the right thing in going away.

goingfor3 Mon 16-Jul-07 14:10:40

You and your son don't know each other yet! Spend more time together then

RubyRioja Mon 16-Jul-07 14:11:13

I don't actually think this can be real. If so, I think she may need help from her colleagues.

If I put my serious head on, a mum (albeit apparantly experienced) who had a prem baby who is still in SC, who felt she had not managed to bond, who felt unneccessary and who felt so irrelevant to her child's wellbeing, must surely be in shock and unable to respond in a health fashion.

I expect to be corrected here

No I actually agree with Cod.

There seems to be a certain level of unhealthy detachment here. Is this dc 5 or 6?

Mozhe has her kids hands them off to au pair, nanny, et al and is back to work full time within a few short weeks.

Unless she needs a rest in the Caribbean.

It truly is shocking.

Mozhe what if something goes seriously wrong and your fragile baby dies? And you're off sunning yourself in the Carribbean. Could you live with yourself?

I suspect that you could.

MamaMaiasaura Mon 16-Jul-07 14:11:24

I dont actually fully believe you, I dont actually believe that what you are saying is true tbh. Maybe I am niave but it just doesnt 'feel' or 'sit' right.

Nbg Mon 16-Jul-07 14:11:25

Waterskiing at what, 2 weeks PN?

Pmsl

MamaMaiasaura Mon 16-Jul-07 14:11:56

ruby - x posts

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 14:11:57

"He knows your sound, your smell, your touch" - not sure he does. I think medics in France discourage interation with premmie that small (correct me if I'm wrong, someone) It is felt the child is still meant to be in-utero and the less intervention other than minimum medical the better. They don;t encourage kangeroo care (is that the right term?) like the Uk in fact posuitively discourage it

Yurtgirl Mon 16-Jul-07 14:12:01

LL Pity the children who dont get a choice though eh!

Surely all children however old they are would choose to be with their mother and father.

LittleLupin Mon 16-Jul-07 14:12:10

RubyR, I think you might have a point

IsabelWatchingItRainInMacondo Mon 16-Jul-07 14:12:55

"....I am hoping to waterski for first time. "

Now you have made me , you are trying stiring us up? aren't you?

Have a good time whatever your decide.












P.S. But if you have an oportunity to tell us why we should be more relaxed about the bonding issue, please do!

StarryStarryNight Mon 16-Jul-07 14:13:15



I find this entire thread entirely offencive and sickening.

Mozhe, you must be out of your mind.
Waterski? Are you on drugs? Or more importantly, should you be?

Nbg Mon 16-Jul-07 14:13:33

ahh well they must be right then.


The boy will never know his mum by the sounds of it.

Bye have fun in St Barts.

GryffindorInARiffindor Mon 16-Jul-07 14:13:36

I do hope you don't have regrets later

I don't find it shocking or dreadful that you are leaving him without his mummy. I find it incredibly sad.

Tamum Mon 16-Jul-07 14:14:00

Have to agree with Enid. I can't imagine leaving a helathy newborn, let alone one in SCBU, but the idea of going away so far that there was no hope of getting back if anything went wrong (whether or not I could "do" anything).. words fail me.

LittleLupin Mon 16-Jul-07 14:14:01

Yurtgirl - I know, I am just loathe to criticise another woman's parenting choices. I could not leave my (perfectly healthy) 15 month old for a week, but that's my choice.

TheCodDelusion Mon 16-Jul-07 14:14:10

did we ever find out if mozhe nad xeina are hte same e perosn?

MamaMaiasaura Mon 16-Jul-07 14:14:34

no offence but does anyone here know mozhe in RL. Are you real or a fictiuos poster?? My firneds ds was in hig care and she hardly left his side. Ds is having tonislls out in September, I will be staying at hopstual with hm and at home with him while he recouperates.. this is a relatively minor operation. A premature baby requiring high care where things can change so fast.. hmm I dont think wild horses would tear me away.

RubyRioja Mon 16-Jul-07 14:14:50

I think most parents would feel very torn if they were forced to be absent from a newborn (even a full term healthy one) eg for another child's medical care, or even their own.

If this is genuine, I fail to see how it is logical or emotionally sound

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 14:14:52

Nbg - I wasn't expressing an opinion on whether they are right or not just stating what I believe is fact. She is not sitting cuddling him, but watching him.

MamaMaiasaura Mon 16-Jul-07 14:14:59

cod x posts .. so relieved i am not the only doubter!

mozhe Mon 16-Jul-07 14:15:07

I must go do stuff...will think on that bonding question...honest !
I am nice person really...but think perhaps I don't know a lot of people like those who hang out on MN,( probably why I like it...),nobody I know in RL has said anything like some of the posts on here.
Staff on NICU think it's a good idea...even children's psychologist is supporyive.
Is it because I feel I want to do it ? Or because I can do it ?

Enid Mon 16-Jul-07 14:15:30

agree with awen

nailpolish Mon 16-Jul-07 14:16:04

stop showing off

utter nonsense

Dottydot Mon 16-Jul-07 14:16:07

Kew - I was thinking the same kind of thing - that the way newborns/premmies are looked after in France is I think very different to over here. The culture/mind set will be different.

goingfor3 Mon 16-Jul-07 14:16:08

Oh well maybe one day he wiill be the chosen one to go on holiday with mummy, and nanny. (huge sigh)

BettySpaghetti Mon 16-Jul-07 14:16:10

I am at your decision to do this.

OK I've not been in your position but I've had friends with babies in SCBU who have not wanted to leave the unit to have a meal or few hours sleep let alone leave the unit for a weeks holiday.

Nbg Mon 16-Jul-07 14:16:19

Fair do's Kew.

All I know that if I had a baby in SCBU I would implant match sticks into my eyes so that I couldnt take my eyes off him.

Speccy Mon 16-Jul-07 14:16:36

Un-fuckin-believable.

If mozhe were a new poster no-one would believe this was for real. Please tell me it's a sick joke.

Poor baby.

RubyRioja Mon 16-Jul-07 14:17:38

I still don't think it is real

MamaMaiasaura Mon 16-Jul-07 14:17:49

right.. so she scarpers when people start doubting her postings.. hmm

<awens suspiscions deepen>

I have doubted her validity before.. tbh i do so even more now.

Ok this is too much, am meant to be working but really...

water-ski-ing? just after giving birth
St Barts?

Jealous as fuck? Yes, of course I am, and in the nicest possible way, are you totally barking mad insane? You sound a little out of touch with your circumstances, really. Is it honestly worth it?
France has beaches too.
Do you not have a garden you can lie in? A balcon?
Whip the old bikini on, have a cocktail, read Paris Match, and voila, you're virtually in St Barts.
Hope your lo is doing ok, btw

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 14:18:23

I also post from the rather detached position of being parent to a child who was in a similar position to Mozhe's DS and utterly alone for first three months in hospital. He has no problem bonding.

Have no idea what I would feel in her position.

LucyJones Mon 16-Jul-07 14:18:27

"nobody I know in RL has said anything like some of the posts on here. "

that's the joy of Mumsnet, we can say what we really think... your friends might not

TootyFrooty Mon 16-Jul-07 14:18:28

"Is it because I feel I want to do it ? Or because I can do it ? "

It's because you want to and that you don't see anything wrong/strange/bizarre about it.

I could go to St Barts tomorrow and leave my very young children if I chose to but I don't want to. I would hate to leave my toddler children for a week, let alone a preemie in nicu.

ggglimpopo Mon 16-Jul-07 14:18:35

I am with pph on this one Mohze. Most of the time I admire your zen stance - but for me the maternal pull would be overwhelming and I could not leave a newborn baby in SCBU and go so far and for so long; no matter how competitive the father and medical care were.

MamaMaiasaura Mon 16-Jul-07 14:18:35

Speccy - I think mozhe is fake. THere I have said it. She wouldnt be the first. Has anyone seen pics etc ??

mozhe - your rl friends are probably AFRAID to tell you what they really think but I guarantee you most of them are thinking the same thing as the majority of us.

Unless of course they practise "detachment" parenting as well...

LittleLupin Mon 16-Jul-07 14:19:15

mozhe, just rereading your old thread - you said your DH was taking time off in October, how come the sudden change? You also said you were going back to work immediately, but that it was ok because your department is right by the hospital.

That's not quite the same as several hours away by plane, is it?!

filchthemildmanneredjanitor Mon 16-Jul-07 14:19:34

pic of mozhe waterskiing while wearing huge maternity towels and dripping breastmilk......

instead of you going now and then dh going later-why not wait and all go together as a family in the future?

or would that be too normal?

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 14:20:03

I can see why people are disagrering - just think its pointless.

I do this Awens post was uncalled for "he is prob shagging the au pair. "

throckenholt Mon 16-Jul-07 14:20:17

why is everyone getting so het up? Sure they would not make the same choice - but really her choice has no impact on you or anyone else you know.

So fine - let her and her DH make their choice and you can all step away from the thread.

Why bother ranting ?

GryffindorInARiffindor Mon 16-Jul-07 14:20:50

I have doubted her before - I have felt she posts for a reaction quite often.

Seeing awen and other feel the same makes me feel less horrid.

PenelopePitstops Mon 16-Jul-07 14:21:53

are you for real?

You are crazy if you are.

MamaMaiasaura Mon 16-Jul-07 14:22:19

Kewcumber.. but if i actually believed she was a real poster I woulndt have. I dont beleive she is a psychaitrist, I dont beleive any of it tbh. I think she is fictitous and is making it all up.. I feel shit thinking this, but I do. I dont believe any of it.

JodieG1 Mon 16-Jul-07 14:22:53

Awen I'm inclined to agree with you.

Cammelia Mon 16-Jul-07 14:23:04

3 things:

1. You're leaving your premature baby in scbu while you go to the Caribbean

2. Your dh is going later without you but with the au pair and

3. Don't go waterskiing so soon after having a baby, your ligaments will not yet have recovered form the softening in pregnancy. You will do you back, knees, arms in

IsabelWatchingItRainInMacondo Mon 16-Jul-07 14:23:59

I really don't know Mozhe, but I have noticed that where people in RL tends to smile and nod at some of ideas, I would be getting much honest response here where nobody is particularly worried of offending me.

I don't think it's a problem that you can afford it, many people do, and although I don't have much contact with the higher classes, I know it is not unusual to pass most of the new child's care into hired carers soon after the birth. I know a few people who do that, they seem happy, their children seem happy, although all their children have called the carer "mum" at some point or another.

But, it is another world.

mozhe Mon 16-Jul-07 14:24:00

Am real<<she whispers>>....think I'll clear off now and pack....
Sorry to upset folk...I know other people who have gone on hols in similar circs...St Barts, because a friend has offered me use of his appartment there...it sounded nice
Why not waterski ? Obstetrician said it would be fine...
I will be in London in Sept...will try to meet up with Kew,( that all right Kew ? ), to hand over photo,( she knows what I mean...it would be nicer to see who I was giving it to iyswim Kew..), and then perhaps you will not thnk peole who make different choices are not real

Speccy Mon 16-Jul-07 14:24:33

It's a pile of shite is what it is.

And this thread has achieved what it set out to.

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 14:24:38

I believe she is a real poster - or at least as "real" as anyone on here albeit possibly one who enjoys exaggerating for effect.

I don;t see how you can assume someone who posts regularly isn't real just because they do something you consider to be beyond the pale. People do it all the time in real life - why not on MN?

Tutter Mon 16-Jul-07 14:25:08

can i just point out enid's comment "go to fricking Babington House for the weekend like normal people"

<snicker>

chopchopbusybusy Mon 16-Jul-07 14:25:16

So Mohze - when will you get a chance to get to know your son. I assume you are going back to work as soon as you return. As for others secretly wishing they could go, I am sure many posters on this site would be able to go but would just choose not to. Oh and yes, I have done SCBU.

I also have suspicions that you are not real - or am I just hoping you can't be real.

squiffy Mon 16-Jul-07 14:25:57

Of course Mozhe is barking - anyone who's been on MN has known that for months.

Mozhe, go, enjoy and let someone else do all the wind-up/trollish/offensive posts in your absence. I am sure you are more than capable of doing the physician healing thyself bit if you get a guilt hit whilst you are out there...if you're not too busy gloating at your two pensions and buy to lets and purrrfect lifestyle that is...

and if I were Xenia I would be really upset by the post asking if she and Mozhe were one and the same... that's a hell of a lot more insulting than anything the SAH's have ever thrown at her...

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 14:26:07

I'd be so grateful Mozhe - thanks. Would be happy to met you. Either in my neck of the woods (out west) or City based nr work?

Hope mozhette continues his progress - cat me when you get back.

NeverTickleASleepingSoupDragon Mon 16-Jul-07 14:26:36

StarryStarryNight Mon 16-Jul-07 14:26:36

Well Mozhe, maybe you get a lot of honest reactions here on MN from people with different life experiences.

Anybody can go on holiday to st barts should they chose to, so it is not because you can that people are wound up about this.... It is because you chose to.

nearlythere Mon 16-Jul-07 14:29:58

to be fait in mohze's shoes i wouldn't be getting on a plane to st barts (oh and yes it is nice, very quiet and mind your p's and q's) i'd be volunteering myself for the nearest high security mental institution

GryffindorInARiffindor Mon 16-Jul-07 14:30:13

Do you really think so little of people that you think their issue is raging jealousy that you are jetting off as opposed to sheer amazment that a mother could leave thier sick child because an apartment sounded nice???

I don't know if you are for real, as I said, I have had my doubts - but as chopchop said - maybe I just want to believe that you can't be.


Good Lord....I'm leaving the thread now

RubyRioja Mon 16-Jul-07 14:31:49

I would say there are lots of people on MN who have different ideas to me, who do things that I think are less than ideal, and I certainly don't live up to the ideals of some posters, but I believe they are real people!

I think this would be such a bizarre set of circumstances that Mozhe is either not quite out of shcok yet, or made up!

The ony possible benefit of her going to St barts is to rest and spend time with (some) of her other children. Both of which coudl surely be achieved at home using the ideas suggested. The possible list of risks or disadvantages is vast.

Blu Mon 16-Jul-07 14:32:05

Mozhe - is St Barts renowned for weatersports and waterskiing? If you wanted a very french island which offers extreme sports, have you considered Reunion in the Indian ocean? You can do long (5 day) treks amongst live volcanoes, as well as diving, parascending, and all the usual stuff.

I went to Broadstairs when DS was 2 weeks old and tackled some very challenging ice cream.
(But did take Ds with me.)

If it works for you, well, the logic of it is all in place - your baby will be fine, I'm sure, and your other children very fine. But you know this isn't normal don't you? So you can't be too surprised at the reaction?

Anyway, best wishes for your baby's quick growth and increasing strength, and hope your holiday works out well.

lulumama Mon 16-Jul-07 14:33:28

mozhe

i think that you might be in shock

this does not seem a rational decision

surely you can delay going until baby is older, stronger and less in need of the sound, smell and love of his mum

lulumama Mon 16-Jul-07 14:33:30

mozhe

i think that you might be in shock

this does not seem a rational decision

surely you can delay going until baby is older, stronger and less in need of the sound, smell and love of his mum

wannaBe Mon 16-Jul-07 14:35:42

words fail me. Will just say that I agree with Enid and cod. and ...

some people don't deserve to have children.

madamez Mon 16-Jul-07 14:37:52

I fail to see what's so wrong with this. The baby is being properly cared for, after all. And there's a lot of mythological bullshit about 'bonding' which is often used to justify controlling women's behaviour rather than being rooted in any actual, provable medical fact (OK so an infant deprived of any affectionate contact will die, but it doesn't matter that much whether the contact is from mother, father, sibling, grandparent, adoptive parent or professional carer. If this weren't so, babies would invariably die if their mothers hadn't lived through childbirth).
Have a nice holiday, Moz, but take it easy with the waterski-ing.

Cammelia Mon 16-Jul-07 14:38:48

Bonding is equally important for the mother madamez

Luella Mon 16-Jul-07 14:38:53

mozhe, can I just say from someone who has had a baby in special care that I understand where you are coming from, but please re-consider the holiday as you will most probably regret it in the future.

People who have not been in this situation will no doubt find it shocking to hear mozhe saying, the baby will not miss her, she needs a break etc. But I understand totally where you are coming from. You don't allow yourself to bond with the baby as you're too scared something will go wrong and you can't let yourself open up that amount of love, as a way of protecting yourself. I get it. And the going away thing, when my DD was a couple of days old, I had to get away from the intensity of the SCBU, and I went for lunch with DH. At the time, I thought it was what I needed, but I still to this day regret that I left DD for a couple of hours when she needed me. It hasn't prevented us bonding, and since then I have become more overprotective than normal, don't want to leave her overnight etc, even though she's now 20 months old. By the way, in the restaurant the waiter asked when the baby was due as I still had a bump, and then it hit me, I needed to be with her. Please take this on board mozhe, because with the hormones etc, you are not thinking straight at this moment.

controlfreakyflitwick Mon 16-Jul-07 14:39:26

mozhe.....
are you:
(a) xenias long lost twin
(b) sectioned
(c) hairy arsed trucker form east midlands
(e) someone who enjoys provoking reactions by their attention seeking behavior
(e) all of the above.


enjoy your holiday

BocoBeak Mon 16-Jul-07 14:40:39

I don't believe this is real. It just makes no sense at all - it's not just a different way of doing things, its ridiculous.

If Mozhe is a psychiatrist she'd know how crazy she sounds. She'd also surely have the understanding and intelligence to realise that this thread was never going to be a 'crocs and sarongs' thread. She would know that people generally would think this is insane, and cruel.

When my baby was in scbu for only a week i couldn't even travel the 20 miles to go back home and pick up more stuff, could't go to the hospital canteen.

There are so many things about all her posts that make me feel that this just isn't a real person.

edam Mon 16-Jul-07 14:41:26

I'm surprised at the venom directed towards Mozhe. OK, her choices aren't those that most people would make. So what? You can point that out quite reasonably if you feel it's necessary without making her out to be a bad mother.

I've visited a SCUBU. If someone happend to tell me (and why would they, anyway?) that one of the mothers had gone on holiday with her other children but the father had stayed back, I'd think it was maybe unusual but clearly suited them.

Why do so many people expect a stranger to live fit their prescription for the mother of a prem. baby?

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 14:41:32

sensible post luella.

edam Mon 16-Jul-07 14:43:13

Bonding schmonding, it's not something that happens to a precise timetable set by complete strangers. '05.00 hours give birth, 05:30 hours bond'.

Cammelia Mon 16-Jul-07 14:43:18

For her own sake edam

madamez Mon 16-Jul-07 14:43:32

Oh FFS, yet more emotional incontinence. THe baby is being well cared for and the mother knows her own personality well enough to be sure she will feel better for a break. People react differently to just about everything, and there is nothing wrong with what she's doing any more than it's wrong of people with prem babies to want to sit in the unit 24/7 (getting in the nurses' way all the time...)

LittleLupin Mon 16-Jul-07 14:48:10

madamez, there is a difference between not being in SCBU 24/7 and getting on a plane and flying thousands of miles away.

kewcumber there was a v interesting thread a while ago about new mothers weird and wonderfull)mad? mental?) moments.

someone, not sure who posted about her experiences when adopting her dds who were pretty young iirc. She was far more calm and in control than the ones who had given birth.

the basic gist was that pregnancy and post natal hormones do send you a bit loopy hence concern.

TootyFrooty Mon 16-Jul-07 14:50:06

Gosh, I had no idea it was emotionally incontinent to want to be with your preemie baby.

You learn something new every day on MN.

chopster Mon 16-Jul-07 14:51:36

this has to be the biggest load of bolleaux I have ever read.

skiing 2 week pn and the obs approves?! the staff and psychologist also approve of you swanning off and leaving your newborn?!

Maybe the second point is true, and you are that loopy they are glad to have you out of the way!

I know if it was my dp, he would have an absolute fit at the idea, you are supposed to be supporting each other through a difficult time, but it appears you don't give a flying f**k!

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 14:52:52

I think your all a bunch of twats.

if i could have fecked off on holiday after giving bith i think i would have done.

her husband is quite capable -ad we dont all sit aroud in scabu - wtching the fish bowl and sobbing.

if she has had the correct medical advice ( am presuming she s fucking loaded - so will have excellent medical advice) then fine.


i think to say she doesn't deserve children or imply that she is a bad mother becuase she's not sobbing, becuse shes coping very well, becuase shes not depressed, becuase shes absolutley fine - is itself bolleaux.



If your argument is "why o rich barstardshjave kids and ass them on to nanny , aupair " then start another thread.

again if your argument is "why do mums go back to ork ater haing chilren" start anther thread
" why do rich folk go to work aftr having kids " ....you get the picture

shinysink Mon 16-Jul-07 14:53:51

. Many moons ago I posted on here under a different talk name which now escapes me - so couldn't use it when I re-registered. At the time I was posting here before though there was a very convincing poster named JudgeFlounce. Claimed to be a QC and invented a child who had died - JF turned out to be a bloke - as far as I recall a childless one too.
Sorry if I doubt you mozhe but you sound pretty suspect to me. My DS was ill at birth and needed to be cared for in SCBU - wild horses would not have dragged me away from him. Sorry - just cannot believe you are real.

Cammelia Mon 16-Jul-07 14:54:32

"getting in the nurses way" Madamez? What are you on ?

Interesting that mohze, having run her holiday plans past every expert available then turns to mumsnet for advice on sarongs and crocs

nearlythere Mon 16-Jul-07 14:55:01

custardo-

edam Mon 16-Jul-07 14:57:16

Great post, Custy.

And to say 'for her own sake' ie she should hang around for someone else's view of the magical bonding process that will be fatally interrupted by going on holiday is just patronising. Mozhe knows her situation better than any of us, she's perfectly capable of judging what is best for her family.

ElenyaTuesday Mon 16-Jul-07 14:57:28

Madamez, I'm with you on this one. I don't see the need for all this rudeness. The baby will be looked after by his father - what's wrong with that? The medics have said that it is unlikely anything will go wrong with the baby. If Mohze is happy to go away, good for her, I hope she has a great time.

peanutbear Mon 16-Jul-07 14:57:36

its a wind up surely


if not enjoy your holiday wouldnt you prefer to take whole family later on in the year though

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 14:58:27

I'm sure they do Severus - wouldn't dream of commenting on the rights/wrongs of making decision two weeks after giving birth not having experiences it. And haven't commented on the "rightness" of it here either for exactly that reason. ("Have no idea what I would feel in her position.") Merely stating that she didn't ask for our opinion (accept that people are entitled to comment anyway) and the many posters who said "well I wouldn't do it" were really neither here nor there.

Don't think that the various suggestions that she check into a high security mental institution (amongst others) are really trying to have a serious discussion with her about her mental health (though I agree others are).

For the record (and slightly off the point) you might be interested to know that post adoption depression is far more common than PND.

MhamaiJane Mon 16-Jul-07 14:58:28

I'm disgusted at this thread and not at the op <real or not> but the snipey vile personal attacks.

Parp

TranquilaManana Mon 16-Jul-07 14:58:44

i think the vitriol is out of order.
am as sure as i can be that its not what id choose to do... but shes hardly leaving him out in the woods to fend for himself, is she??

mozhe - i would avoid letting people on holiday know about the baby. you prob dont need vitriol thrown at you there too.

ElenyaTuesday Mon 16-Jul-07 15:00:50

Oh, x-posted with custardo - good for you!!!!

WigWamBam Mon 16-Jul-07 15:01:06

Bloody hell.

Mozhe's choice wouldn't have been one I could have made, but some of the comments aimed at her on this thread are just vile.

Good old supportive MN, eh?

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 15:01:16

peanuitbear - flying with a ventilated baby is not recommended for 12 months after. Presume Mozhe doesn't want to wait that long so they are splitting the holdiay between them and taking half the DC's each week.

LittleLupin Mon 16-Jul-07 15:01:52

I think mozhe is bonkers going so far away, but I agree that saying she doesn't deserve to have children etc is going too far.

JeremyVile Mon 16-Jul-07 15:02:00

Mozhe, i hope you have a lovely time, get to relax, unwind and catch up with your DTs.

Of course your newest addition will be fine, as fine as he would be if you were there, the fact is that, sadly, his welfare and health are not in your hands atm, the medical staff will continue to care for him.

You're a strong lady so im sure (i hope) that some of these ridiculous and viscious comments will be like water off a ducks back.

All the best.

Cammelia Mon 16-Jul-07 15:04:13

I remember a few years ago on m/net people were just as shocked when liam gallagher and his wife (nicole .....?) went on holiday leaving their 2/3 week old baby behind.

Its just not something most people would consider usual, normal or desirable.

I'm not being patronising edam, I genuinely believe its best for the mother (as well as the baby)

Wisteria Mon 16-Jul-07 15:04:28

Some of your comments have been totally vile - it's each to their own. We know as parents how we all disagree about the most fundamental issues but Mozhe is not doing any harm to anyone, her new little ds is in the best place with the best care and her dh is there.
Stop being so nasty!

Mozhe - do you think your breastmilk will taste different on your return??

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 15:05:23

the baby can't "taste" it Wisteria - he has a tube I assume.

CatIsSleepy Mon 16-Jul-07 15:05:40

am I abnormal? i don't much care what Mozhe does or doesn't do...


enjoy your holiday though!

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 15:05:55

babies are so over rated

Cammelia Mon 16-Jul-07 15:05:57

Hope that wasn't aimed at me wisteria

ladylush Mon 16-Jul-07 15:06:08

As a disclaimer I must first explain that I am probably not sane atm having just had a mmc at 3 months. However, my gut feeling is that it's not my baby, it's hers and she can do what the fuck she likes. She's not deserting all her kids, she's taking two with her. How would people react if it was her dh going away, while she sat in scbu. Not nearly as angrily I suspect.

TootyFrooty Mon 16-Jul-07 15:08:20

Actually, ladylush, I don't agree with you. If someone posted on here about her very preemie baby being in scbu and said that her husband was going on holiday for a couple of weeks I suspect there would be pitchforks at dawn.

MhamaiJane Mon 16-Jul-07 15:08:27

Unparp just for Custy's last post, feckin genius!!!!!!

peanutbear Mon 16-Jul-07 15:09:14

right thanks for that Kew fair enough

thirtysomething Mon 16-Jul-07 15:09:18

wasn't going to post as know i'm judging the judgemental posters, but don't feel I can stay quiet...WigWam I echo you 100%. How can anyone know Mozhe's situation as well as she does? Poor Mozhe has been through a great deal lately, can't you just stay away if you want to disagree with her choices rather than personally attacking her? I'm not keen on factory farmed meat products but I don't hang around the frozen section at Sainsburys foisting my opinions on everyone who buys them...

beansprout Mon 16-Jul-07 15:10:10

Oh I do. Am always heckling people at the bacon counter.

Wisteria Mon 16-Jul-07 15:10:30

Wasn't aimed at anyone in particular - just thought some of the comments were unwarrantedly nasty as opposed to rational thoughts. Cammelia, your post wasn't nasty, just truthful.

Really kew (post adoptive depression)? that is intersting. I wasn't having a pop it just reminded me of that thread and thought you might find it interesting.

Ellbell Mon 16-Jul-07 15:11:05

I am having very mixed feelings about this thread. There is no way that I would go on holiday in this situation, but that is me, and I believe that mozhe has the right to make her own decisions on this. My dd was a little bit prem and underweight and was kept in hospital for a couple of weeks. I was made to go home when she was a week old as the hospital couldn't keep my bed for me. I can honestly say I have never cried so much as when I was ejected from the hospital without my baby. During the time I was in hospital I'd had her with me all the time, even though they begged me to let her sleep in the nursery overnight so that I could get some rest (she wasn't in an incubator or anything). She never woke up (she slept 23.5 hours out of 24) so I set my alarm for every 3 hours so I could get out of bed and put milk down her NGT myself. I wouldn't let anyone else do it, even though they perfectly well could have done (I had to get a midwife to come and check the tube was in the right place first anyway, before I could 'feed' her). I was, basically, totally OTT. I was convinced that something dreadful would happen to my dd if I went home without her. But it didn't. She continued to sleep 24/7 and when I wasn't there the nurses put her milk down her tube. I did spend as much time as possible at the hospital. But I basically just looked at her, expressed milk and read the paper. She wasn't sick. She was just small and very sleepy and she couldn't feed by herself. As I said at the start, I would not have gone on holiday. I wouldn't have missed spending a day with her. I hated going home at the end of the day. BUT I can also see (in retrospect) that my dd didn't actually NEED me to be there 24/7. She didn't have a clue whether I was there or not. She was just asleep. She didn't know if it was me, a nurse or Lord Voldemort himself putting milk down her tube (she slept through the whole procedure!). She is now 7 and I am fairly certain that I have not bonded any less well with her than I have with her sister, who came home from hospital with me on the day she was born and was 'properly' bf and did not spend a night away from me till she was about 2. OTOH, when dd2 was three she fell over and cut her face badly and had to have it stitched under general anaesthetic. I stayed with her the whole time (except in theatre) and wouldn't have dreamt of leaving her. That felt very different from sitting with a tiny sleeping baby.

It's a complicated issue, imho. (I'm not saying that mozhe's way is right though...!)

ladylush Mon 16-Jul-07 15:11:16

I doubt it tootyfrooty

Wisteria Mon 16-Jul-07 15:11:45

Depends, my friends baby started taking it through the mouth quite early on in the incubator thingie - I meant in general not just for baby

MhamaiJane Mon 16-Jul-07 15:11:53

Ah stop I'm gooingto wet myself laughing! <imagines thirtysomething waving a placard at people in the frozen section!>

MhamaiJane Mon 16-Jul-07 15:12:16

Going even.

JoolsToo Mon 16-Jul-07 15:15:23

is going to St Barts a euphemism for I'm orf for a tummy tuck or lipo?

I can't get enraged over what other parents do, it's (was) hard enough making my own parenting decisions!

I am really torn about this. Mohze, I certainly couldn't do what you are doing and wouldn't want to. My daughter was prem too but not as small as your little one. She was also my PFB so I was and remain to this day obsessed by every breath she takes...

So St Barts is the last place on earth I would choose to be. But I really don't like the tone on here. The bad mother stuff, the you don't deserve to have a baby stuff, the my friend sobbing her heart out would love to be in your shoes stuff.

I don't understand what you are doing. But I don't see the need for the righteousness either. Maybe Mohze is in shock. Maybe she really needs to get away. Maybe she is worried about her other children. Maybe she is afraid she's not really adding much to the situation now (which she probably isn't if she's just staring at the incubator) and feels it would be healthier to step away. Maybe she doesn't react the same way some of us do. Maybe her reaction to a problem is not to focus on it but to put her head in the sand a little bit, on the basis that what will be will be.

As I say, I wouldn't do it and waterskiing made me a bit but there is a bit too much sanctimoniousness on here sometimes.

As for the early bonding, nah. I put that in the nice to have but not essential category. Anyone who saw the Nicky Campbell documentary on adoption last week will know it's a lifetime of love that matters.

I'm really torn about this. I don't understand for a moment why you want to do this. But I really don't like the public flogging.

I kind of understand where you are coming from

I had an awful time giving birth to dd and was totally exhausted and on my knees a few months later, I hadn’t recovered properly from 9 hour general anaesthetic and major blood transfusion, I was in a daze.

DH and I went to Grenada when dd was 4 months, leaving her at our house with my mother.
I was a totally different person when I returned. I could enjoy dd and felt human again.

I did spend about £500 on phone bills to uk and I cried all the way there (but made a mysterious recovery when I stepped off the plane)

Not sure I could leave a baby in SCBU personally, but then I bet most people wouldn’t have left a 4 month old either, so each to their own really

(i didn't go waterskiing )

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 15:20:07

wisteria - I'd be amazed if a 27 week premmie is taking anything by mouth (though of course I would stand corrected if he was)

Severus - I didn't think you were having a pop - just wanted to be clear that I wasn't actually expressing a view about the situation Mozhe finds herself in.

65% of adoptive parents suffer from PAD to some extent (and they're the ones who admit to it) - many reasons too complicated to go into on this thread. Obviously not hormonal though but situational.

Ellbell Mon 16-Jul-07 15:23:51

LOL @ CD feeling the need to add that she didn't go waterskiing

Sorry my post was so long. I kept getting interrupted and lost the plot somewhat. (So what's new?)

I did charter a yacht for a day but that was very sedate compared to waterskiing

In fact I slept most of the time and was on the phone to home most of the rest (in between medicinal rum punches to help me sleep of course)

Custy - I usually agree with you but do strongly disagree with you on this one.

You have a very premature baby sitting in an incubator. Maternal instinct is to be there with\for that baby. Not piss off to the Caribbean for some watersports ffs!

Paying people to take care of your kids? Sure, another thread but very relevant here.

Why have them? Or is it just another status thing?

TigerFeet Mon 16-Jul-07 15:29:23

Not sure if I could do it myself, but if Mozhe wants to then that's up to her.

Some of the posts on this thread are shocking imho.

I do have to raise an eyebrow @ waterskiing though

Quiddaitch Mon 16-Jul-07 15:30:46

agree with margoandjerry. poor old mozhe, i like her she's funny and different. she's had a big shock, though, i'd just be a bit concerned that it might all hit her when she's away. anyway, i hope that it provides the break you need, moz.

My point is even if someone carted me off on a private luxury jet to the Caribbean for some R&R and my every whim and desire was met and someone(s) was looking after my assorted children and I wouldn't have a care in the world there's not a hope in this life or the next or even the one after that that I would leave my newborn baby, sick, premature or perfectly healthy.

ladylush Mon 16-Jul-07 15:31:34

I wouldn't go waterskiing at the best of times.

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 15:32:37

how "badly" post natal would you be at 27 weeks having given birth to a 1lb baby (physically I mean)? Just wondering, shuold really ask Mozhe, I guess.

louii Mon 16-Jul-07 15:33:24

This is a joke right?

Enid Mon 16-Jul-07 15:33:29

[unclasp]

custy that babies are shite shtick you have started doing recently is fucking boring

[clasp]

Well psychiatrists aren't supposed to self-diagnose I assume....

But I'd be about pnd maybe.

Mozhe in all honesty I think you should talk to a professional who is not in your immediate family about your feelings here.

ladylush Mon 16-Jul-07 15:35:35

Take a few sertraline as prophylaxis?

ladylush Mon 16-Jul-07 15:35:55

They can self-px though.

TigerFeet Mon 16-Jul-07 15:36:02

I rather suspect that the whole birth experience has an air of unreality to it for you Mozhe. I would be very surprised if you're not in shock, and the whole thing will probably catch up with you big style at some point. I just hope you will be OK if you do go away, and that you have plans in place to come back quickly if you want/need to.

SweetyDarling Mon 16-Jul-07 15:37:37

This really sounds like somethingI would expect to read about in a newspaper! Would expect the mother to be a 15yo chav though, and so off to Blackpool rather than the Carib, but certainly not an educated mature woman.
I've heard of mothers (mine included) leaving young babies (by young I mean a few months old) to go away on holidays, but in every case i've come across this was a symptom of severe PND and desperation.
This doesn't sound like the actions of a mentally stable indivisual to be honest. Mozhe, can you speak to a colleague?

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 15:38:11

Oh enid behave.

hatrickjacqueline Mon 16-Jul-07 15:41:28

Crumbs

Funny how different people are isn't it?

I would have hated leaving any of my full term babies to go away [still would in all honesty and they are 3, 2 and 11 months] but guess I am just more emotionally attatched than those who feel they would enjoy a holiday knowing they were not with them.


Mozhe and Custy are obviously made of different stuff and have different ways of doing things.

Neither way is the best way , just 2 types of people with two very different sets of needs maybe?

Pinions Mon 16-Jul-07 15:43:52

This is a joke right?

SandCastspells Mon 16-Jul-07 15:46:00

My mother left me to wake up on my own after an op when I was 9....she had to work.

It still upsets me now that she left me in my "hour of need"

Can you live with yourself when your son is older enough to say "mummy, why did you go on holiday when I needed you" Becuase even if you think he doesn't need you....he does, more than you know.

It's not just now ou have to worry about, but his whole future rests on knowing you stood my him when his need was greatest.

oranges Mon 16-Jul-07 15:46:13

God I remember that feeling of exhaustion and panic when ds was first born, and in fact, if someone had offered me an all expenses holiday, and someone loving to look after ds, I would have gone.

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 15:48:10

I have no idea how supportive my mother was of me before I was about 2yrs old. Have no memory before that and she wouldn't have been stupid enough to tell me if she wasn't!

JeremyVile Mon 16-Jul-07 15:49:27

"It's not just now ou have to worry about, but his whole future rests on knowing you stood my him when his need was greatest."

Please, get a fecking grip......

ladylush Mon 16-Jul-07 15:51:19

Agree JV

LittleLupin Mon 16-Jul-07 15:52:28

What, are the family going to wait until the baby is 5 or 6 and then go, "hey, your mum went on holiday when you were a tiny baby without you"...

No probably not but you forget about ALL the much older siblings.

Patronuscharm Mon 16-Jul-07 15:53:52

I personally couldn't do what the OP is doing but each to her own. Never been to St Barts so cannot comment on the original question either.

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 15:53:58

i think the "oh mummy where art thou in my time of need" is a bit OTT.

yeah custy especially if the poor thing takes a turn while she's away....won't ever come up then...

Pruners Mon 16-Jul-07 15:54:59

Message withdrawn

Quiddaitch Mon 16-Jul-07 15:56:03

to be fair it obviously comes from personal experience in the poster's case, but i think that 9 is not the same as 27 weeks. (actually i think 27 weeks more surprising but mr mozhe will be there so tristan not on his own).

Quiddaitch Mon 16-Jul-07 15:57:10

has anyone read an article about kangaroo care helping preemies in coutnries where there's no incubators etc? amazing.

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 15:57:14

god with the melodrama.

CoypuNot Mon 16-Jul-07 15:57:23

i dont get it - but she seems ok with it
would not fancy telling my little boy i went scuba diving whilst he was in icu

CoypuNot Mon 16-Jul-07 15:57:29

i dont get it - but she seems ok with it
would not fancy telling my little boy i went scuba diving whilst he was in icu

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 15:58:48

why would you ven bring it up

Custy - It's not melodrama.

Babies of that prematurity are at very high risk or all sorts of complications. That is fact.

What is in question is Mozhe's detachment from her newborn.

Meeely2 Mon 16-Jul-07 15:59:37

Hi

No one on here knows me, but I gave birth at 29 weeks to twins. they were in scbu for 8 weeks, so still came home before they were 'due'. I think everything that i was feeling as I read the post has been said, so it's gonna sound like old news now but....

My boys were 'fine', just tiny and sleepy, so yes i just watched them, changed bums and did kangeroo care as much as i could. I could have left them for a weeks holiday at anytime, but didn't WANT to. Then at 4 weeks, I got a chest infection and couldn't go to see them for a WHOLE week! Every day my DH would go do the feeds and come home with pictures, they changed so much in that week i was actually scared i wouldn't love them when i went back! It was the worst week of my life.

THEN one of my boys just stopped breathing and had to be resuscitated and put back in an incubator. this happened in the middle of the night and the staff didn't tell me til the morning (i was at home). Even those few hours when i wasn't there have killed me ever since, if i had been on holiday when this happened, god, it's unimaginable. He is now 2 and a half and fine, but it will stay with me forever. Especially as another mum of premmie twins WAS there at the time and saw the whole thing.

Anyway my point is, I FELT like i needed a holiday the entire time they were in there, who wouldn't, it's draining (and I kinda got one)....BUT to actually go....no never......everyday is an achievement for a premmie, at two weeks old they met each other for the first time, that was unreal....one did try and eat the other but hey!

Oh and the milk thing, he will go through what you have expressed no probs, mine did, i couldn't keep up with demand in the end.


I not gonna be bitchy, or rude, just say i think it is unwise as you simply DO NOT know what will happen and yes if anything bad does happen, your DH will be there, but surely DH will need you too for support. A sick child is the worst possible stress and to go through it alone is awful. As soon as i found out how ill my little one had got, my dh left work and spent all afternoon at his bedside with me because i needed him.

Anyway, enough preaching.....i won't do the pleasantarys, of enjoy your holiday blah blah, because i don't mean it....I say, PLEASE think about this and if necessary send your kids for a holiday with grandparents and just dedicate your time to your little one, because once he's home he will be competing with your other kids for attention and by the looks of it he will lose everytime.

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 16:00:19

kerry i think f her baby was goin to die - as yu infer -the doctor might have mentoined it.

Dottydot Mon 16-Jul-07 16:02:00

Maybe I can sympathise with Mozhe more because one of the best memories of having ds2 (apart from us both waking up together on the second morning - him on my chest - bestest moment ever), was leaving him with the midwives on day two while dp and I went to the cafe to get a coffee!

OK, it wasn't the carribean for a week, but to be able to escape for half an hour (could have been longer...) when he was a day old was just what I needed - and had I been able to escape for longer and go further I would have. And he wasn't in an incubator - he needed me! Yes, it might be a PTSD/PND thing, but we all react in different ways to these situations and one way isn't more/less right than the other. People get on their high horses so sodding quickly sometimes...

Quiddaitch Mon 16-Jul-07 16:03:34

custy i don't htink the docs can be unequivocal at this stage, tbh.

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 16:05:11

well shes going with the medicl advice - she is saying that the medical staff see no problem.

but mumsnet knows best

Peachy Mon 16-Jul-07 16:05:52

well Mozhe I hope it all goes smoothly

You know about attaachment theory. Its your job. You also know about post natal depression and post traumatic shock but I know nothing anyone says will amtter to you.

So I hope everything goes well and tyou feel more relaxed on your return.

Do you ever question why mozhe's life could have almost sprung from the pages of a book?

That she is almost a characature of this type of woman who has lots of kids then dashes off to St Barts to get away from it all, leaving the dashing doctor husband hero type to deal with the child?

Mozhe didnt have tosay she was going to St Barts - but it was fundamental to her to slip it in - to rile up those on here who she knew it would rile up.

Do you ever think she might be playing at all this? Or just over-emphasising her 'part' for greater effect and reaction.

She's probably completely genuine and just totally feckless of course

She also clearly doesnt feel attachment to this child yet as she has stated - and the health of the baby not in question so really not that big a deal if she doesnt think so...

Bon Voyage Mozhe

custy - they can't predict these things in preemies fgs - look at Meely's post.

CoypuNot Mon 16-Jul-07 16:21:10

i am a bit at whole thing

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 16:21:56

you can't predict anything

SandCastspells Mon 16-Jul-07 16:22:25

LittleLupin, maybe not wait & then suddenly say 'oh, by the way....' but he has 5 older siblings.

Kids do talk, unless they are going to be sworn to secrecy (sp)

lulumama Mon 16-Jul-07 16:23:47

i thought that the whole issue with prem babies, at very low birth weights is that things can change rapidly, for the worst, within the first few days/ weeks..that the risk of infection is high and that sometimes some adverse effects of being born early don;t show up until later

All i know is, if that were me, with my baby in SCBU, and weighing less than 2 lbs, there is no way i would be on a plane to the caribbean regardless of whether my DH was there or not.

Quiddaitch Mon 16-Jul-07 16:25:06

custy i'm not saying that mozhe's in the wrong, just that you're statement that the doctors would have mentioned if they expected the baby to die was a bit pointless as i'm perfectly sure that they couldn't say for definite either way. clearly they've said that they don't expect any problems, but that's not definitive. but mr moz will be there anyway and i hope she has a good time.

Quiddaitch Mon 16-Jul-07 16:25:41

your statement.

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 16:33:37

if the medical staff wer concerned they would have said - twas not I that asserted death in this jumped up senario.

twofalls Mon 16-Jul-07 16:37:09

custy, I think people who try and try and try to have babies might disagree with the fact you think they are overrated .

As far as this is concerned, I don't honestly think Mozhe expected this to be a sarong and crocs thread, surely she would have seen what reaction this would have caused. Completely provocative and attention seeking IMO.

My SIL has PND because she was kept apart from her newborn premmie baby for 12 hours whilst she was whisked away to another hospital. I am not sure Mozhe realises what she might be letting herself in for. I didn't even want to let my full term perfectly healthy baby out of my site whilst my MIL too her to feed the ducks so this whole thing is completely bonkers to me (at risk of being called "emotionally incontinent here )

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 16:39:23

I tried and tried and tried to have babies - don't feel that is terribly relevant to choices mozhe makes.

LeakyCauldron Mon 16-Jul-07 16:40:22

You know, if this was a teenager going off on a week's holiday and leaving her baby in SCBU you would expect a referral to the psychiatrists and/or social services....

twofalls Mon 16-Jul-07 16:41:08

I was referring to the fact that custy said they were overrated kew.

Exactly

GooseyLoosey Mon 16-Jul-07 16:42:06

Well if someone would have provided me with a holiday after ds was born (or even a days respite), I would have taken it without hesitation.

Not only did I not feel maternal towards him, if there was a realistic possibility that I could have escaped the situtation even for a little while I would have done.

I did not bond with my son when he was born and being with him day in, day out did not help the bonding process in any way - it only made me resent him. In the event, I returned to work asap to get away as there was no holiday on offer.

You are quite free to judge my lack of maternal feeling if you wish.

Goosey -

If that is the case would you then go on to have 5 more?

filchthemildmanneredjanitor Mon 16-Jul-07 16:44:24

and where you happy with feeling like that?

If what you say is real..

You are a mental health professional.

I am a mental health professional.

I urge you to go and see a mental health professsional.

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 16:45:43

I'm not sure mozhe is planning on having 5 more .

WilkiesWizardWheezes Mon 16-Jul-07 16:45:49

Piss take

Gotta be

Otherwise...shame on you

Sorry but that is truly awful and I am deeply deeply shocked

GooseyLoosey Mon 16-Jul-07 16:47:25

Kerrymubledore - I did go on to have one more as I grew to love my son (eventually). I loved her from before she was born.

Presumably this has not been a problem that Mozhe has had with her previous children.

What I do know is that there were times when I came close to hating my son (and sorry if that offends anyone) and getting away would have been best for us both.

Kew - Mozhe has 5 or is it now 6 kids. That's my point. I gather she has always gone quickly back to work for instance (i.e. much earlier than allowed maternity leave). There does seem to be lack of bonding and\or detachment here.

I urge lots of you to go and see mental health professionals re your abnormal interest in the life of someone you have never met

LeakyCauldron Mon 16-Jul-07 16:50:59

I would like to add that I am not in the remotest bit jealous - I have no desire whatsoever to be the kind of mother who could leave a newborn in hospital while she goes on holiday. I think it would have killed me to do so actually and I think it's pretty sad and unatural to be able to do it - I don't think it's unatural to want to do it or dream about it longingly, but completely unatural to actually do it.

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 16:52:04

going back to work quickly is (for example) very very common in the US. Are you suggesting that they are all unbonded with their children. I have no idea how well bonded she is with her older children, couldn't even begin to speculate based on such little information. If I had to speculate about this particlar child I would say that she probably isn't particularly bonded with him yet. Not really surprising but I'm not sure a week away from him is going to change that one way or another.

But do agree with CD am thoroughly ashamed of my ability to get sucked into a thread I really don't care that much about

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 16:52:44

and I don;t think Mozhe suggested anyone was jealous did she? I think that was someone else.?

lljkk Mon 16-Jul-07 16:53:17

Mozhe-Xenia are weirdly alike, and Mozhe suddenly appears on MN backing up most things Xenia says (often controversial). But while Xenia comes across as pig-ignorant sometimes, she doesn't tell us an implausible lifestory....

I'm still trying to figure out how Mozhe conceived her Tristan in the first place,
...at the age of 43
...after only few months of trying
...while still fully breastfeeding (no solids or formula yet) 7 month old twins
...very shortly after having a sterilisation reversed.

F'ing A, she ought to bottle her fertility genes and flog them to biotech companies.

JoolsToo Mon 16-Jul-07 16:53:31

is there a row going on?

filchthemildmanneredjanitor Mon 16-Jul-07 16:54:59

pmsl!!!!!!!!!!

is that all 'true'.....

oh well then, what is everyone geting all worked up for? the woman is obviously a sales rep from swindon called derek!

Quiddaitch Mon 16-Jul-07 16:55:06

rofl CD <goes to park>

WilkiesWizardWheezes Mon 16-Jul-07 16:55:58

Lijk - oh lost interest now. I thought it was plausible to begin with but clearly not.

Janitor - PMSL. Spot on!!

EricGallagher Mon 16-Jul-07 16:56:06

Awen


Your comment about the au-pair was fucking disgraceful and you should be ashamed of yourself. If mozhe is slightly post-natally depressed do you think a comment like that would help?


Seriously, bang out of order

harleyd Mon 16-Jul-07 16:57:01

this cant be for real?

filchthemildmanneredjanitor Mon 16-Jul-07 16:58:01

no i don't think it is.

derek obviousl;y hasn't got any appointment s this afternoon

LieselVentouse Mon 16-Jul-07 16:58:42

Has this been deleted yet?

LieselVentouse Mon 16-Jul-07 16:58:59

Obviously not

LieselVentouse Mon 16-Jul-07 16:59:32

What kind of truck do you drive Mohze?

filchthemildmanneredjanitor Mon 16-Jul-07 17:00:53

not a ruck liesel-probably a mondeo from the fleet

filchthemildmanneredjanitor Mon 16-Jul-07 17:01:04

truck

nutcracker Mon 16-Jul-07 17:06:00

OMG you have to be kidding right ? You are going to leave you very prem baby in SCBU to go off on holiday ?

I would so hate to be the type of person that could do that and not give a shit.

My Dd2 was in SCBU for 2 weeks, and I cried when I had to leave her there and go home, which was only about 20 min away, and she wasn;t even ill, or very prem.

I even felt bad the one night when we popped into a pub for something to eat on the way home from visiting her, it just felt wrong.

I agree with everyone who has said, what on earth is the point of you having kids if you are going to do that.

Cammelia Mon 16-Jul-07 17:13:10

I would describe mothers who want to be in the same country as their 2 week old prem baby as emotionally continent (no pun intended)

zookeeper Mon 16-Jul-07 17:30:23

Why can't you lot just accept that people are different?

because mn would be very very dull

imagine

Poster 1:Oh I have decided to bottle feed my baby with my dog's milk

Poster 2: Well, that's a bit different but I accept that everyone has their own ideas

Poster 3: Personally I wouldn't but hey, live and let live

zzzzzzzzzz

beansprout Mon 16-Jul-07 17:37:45

lol CD

fannyannie Mon 16-Jul-07 17:41:03

"I think all of us are a bit shocked about how little YOU will miss HIM"

Haven't read the entire thread - too long...just up to that quote early on.......well that must make me a terrible person too - as I've never had any issues about 'missing' my children (either as babies, toddlers or primary school aged) when we've been apart for a day (or more)......go on - shoot me now (then I won't have to go to the rehearsal at church tonight - with all 3 children in tow ).

beansprout Mon 16-Jul-07 17:45:50

I don't pine for ds on the days I am at work but that's not the same as going off on holiday when your premature baby is in the SCBU.

CoypuNot Mon 16-Jul-07 17:49:28

but a week in the carribean with child in scbu
if you thr birth announcement threads they seem very unemotional - almost dead pan

LoveAngel Mon 16-Jul-07 17:54:18

PMSL that this thread is still going.

LoveAngel Mon 16-Jul-07 17:54:19

PMSL that this thread is still going.

Cammelia Mon 16-Jul-07 18:03:22

Presume from the thread title that mohze is going back to work when she comes back from holiday

MamaMaiasaura Mon 16-Jul-07 18:06:13

ditto laurie fairy cake

Eric - If i thought for a second she was real I wouldnt have said it. Fact is, I think it is all bolleuax (french styleee)

Cammelia Mon 16-Jul-07 18:07:13

But i was thinking it anyway awen

MamaMaiasaura Mon 16-Jul-07 18:08:19

<quickt clasps nork again>

Cammelia Mon 16-Jul-07 18:08:46

lol

TootyFrooty Mon 16-Jul-07 18:10:58

Don't bother with crocs - you'll get sand all over your toes. Just take t-shirts and 3 or 4 sarongs.

Cammelia Mon 16-Jul-07 18:11:58

Take shirts which open as you're still b/f'ng the dts

TootyFrooty Mon 16-Jul-07 18:13:14

Good point Cammelia.

saggermakersknockturnalley Mon 16-Jul-07 18:17:13

It's not something I would do. It's too far, the door of the ward was too far for me.

But I would just say that when you have a sick child you do sometimes keep them at arms length - don't get attached 'just in case' . Maybe mozhe is doing that, maybe consciously, maybe not. Sometimes it's the only way to stay sane.

mrsmalaprop Mon 16-Jul-07 18:19:28

I could probably be shot as a bad mother too. I had ds at 28 weeks and was very ill myself. I was still in intensive care for a week after he was born. I was taken to SCBU every day by the nurses, but couldn't see his face due to his jaundice lamp eye protection and the ventilator. I began to hate it - and hate myself fo feeling like that. I stayed in hospital for a couple of weeks after the birth and used a breast pump every 3 hours to feed him, but when I went to SCBU I felt totally useless and didn't want to be there. After I finally got to go home I had to get a taxi in every day to sit beside his incubator. I was exhausted. I hadn't properly recovered from my surgery or the birth and wanted to sleep more than anything - I didn't want to be sitting in an overheated room staring at a tiny person in a box who I felt didn't care whether I was there or not. I went because I was expected to.

He was in for 2 months and it was only in the week running up to him coming home when I was beginning to breast feed properly that I really began to feel like a mother at all. The rest of it was for show and because the nurses at the hospital kept saying that I should be there. I really resented it.

I love my ds more than anything in the world. We bonded strongly and immediately as soon as I was able to really be a mother to him. He had grommets put in a few months ago and I was distraught when he was put to sleep. It made me think about all of the worse procedures he had when he was tiny that I hadn't felt much about at all. It makes me so sad to think of it.

I would not have stayed away from the hospital for long - and wouldn't have gone very far, but I wanted to at times and I honestly believe that no one should judge.

My inital reaction to the OP was shock and disapproval, but I had to think back to how I felt and maybe she's just less sensitive to other people's expectations than I was. I wouldn't have dreamed of going on holiday, but I would have gladly gone home and slept for a week!

I'm sorry if that makes me a bad person too.

allgonebellyup Mon 16-Jul-07 18:19:37

oh for fucks sake , leave the poor woman alone. Why the hell CANT she go on holiday?

why are you lot so judgemental and fish-wifey like?
you are all so desperate to try and prove what amazing mothers you are, why dont you stop judging the OP?

DangerousBeans Mon 16-Jul-07 18:22:55

I am sure that logically and practically there are lots of reasons to justify Mozhe going on holiday and leaving her baby in SCBU.

He's in good hands, and her other children will enjoy the holiday.

I am sure (and hope that) a lovely time will be had by all, and the baby will be fine.

But emotionally it just seems all wrong to me.

(And I could never afford a holiday in St Barts, but if I could, I still wouldn't go in these circs).

AugustusRookWhooosh Mon 16-Jul-07 18:27:00

Assuming that the op is indeed for real,I would like to make the following comments.

Custy-totally agree.

It is likely Tristan will be in SCBU for many weeks with little parental contact/kangaroo care as per the French system.He is too young and under-developed to miss his Mother.He is in the best place with regards to care-if anything goes wrong,there is little Mozhe could do about it whether she was there or not.

She has 5 other kids to think about and their emotional wellbeing/attachment and the chance to spend some quality time with them.

I personally do not think I could do it but then I only have one dd and had pfb syndrome-after 5 I/one may feel very different.

It all comes down to choice in the end and if Mohze is happy with her decision then good luck to her-she and her other children will benefit-am not convinced Tristan will suffer....

Again,not something I would do but then again I wouldn't breastfeed past 12mts,use elimination communication,give her a dummy or give her juice in a bottle....all about choice.

And if she is indeed a hairy arsed trucker from Swindon-the wind up worked!

CoypuNot Mon 16-Jul-07 18:29:15

i have five and wer e similar to befall me next time i could absolutely not do this
my child is my child no matter where they come in the running

DoubleBluff Mon 16-Jul-07 18:35:51

What a nasty thread.
Mozhe has other children who need her just as much if not more tha baby.
It is up to her.
Have a great time.

DoubleBluff Mon 16-Jul-07 18:35:51

What a nasty thread.
Mozhe has other children who need her just as much if not more tha baby.
It is up to her.
Have a great time.

I would think that a sick and\or fragile new life needs mum more than a couple of teenagers who want to go waterskiing in the Caribbean.

But hell, I admit I could be wrong about that

beansprout Mon 16-Jul-07 18:40:10

Yes, but the teenagers can shout louder and sulk and stuff.

CoypuNot Mon 16-Jul-07 18:40:49

kelly all mohzes children are between 4 or 5 and newborn

LittleLupin Mon 16-Jul-07 18:41:19

Um, I don't think they are teenagers, not if she is still breastfeeding one of them!

allgonebellyup Mon 16-Jul-07 18:41:29

agree with Doublebluff

LittleLupin Mon 16-Jul-07 18:42:14

6 children under 6 <faints> I'd need several YEARS in the cari farkin bean!

Idreamofdaleks Mon 16-Jul-07 18:42:40

I imagine you must be in severe shock after giving birth in this way.

I do not think that either jetting off to the carribean or going back to work are normal reactions to this stressful situation and I think you should seek medical advice and support.

Is your baby still under 2lb in weight? Is it not possible that he could be in mortal danger, ok let's not mince words, isn't it possible that he might die whilst you are away? Are you not running away from dealing with this?

The reactions on here are not about jealousy of your financial circumstances mozhe and I don't believe that you are really looking for advice on what colour flip flops you should be wearing over there with your original post.

Not if you had a Nanny AND an au pair and were working full time!

Exactly how taxing is that?

LittleLupin Mon 16-Jul-07 18:46:14

Well, I don't think either the nanny or the aupair or any of her colleagues actually carried and gave birth to the children, did they?

So are you saying that every pregnant woman NEEDS a weeks holidays after giving birth just because they carried a baby for 9 months!

Except it was barely 5 in this instance.

LoveAngel Mon 16-Jul-07 18:48:35

You're all barking fucking mad. Mozhe is a figment of somebody's imagination. LMFAO.

Ok, I give up. I'm going now. Bye-dee.bye.

Well, I suppose in an existential way we're ALL figments of our imagination

Cammelia Mon 16-Jul-07 18:52:08

In my imagination I definitely have a clenaer, cook, nanny, and am going on holiday to the Caribbean to stay in a friends pad for free with first class flights paid for by my relatives

LittleLupin Mon 16-Jul-07 18:54:14

Wow. OK, I did not say that. I have already said that I would not have taken the same decision on her position. I ^intimated* that I would find 6 children an awful lot to deal with. You implied that because Mozhe has staff, she should be under no pressure at all.

Quite frankly, your post:

"So are you saying that every pregnant woman NEEDS a weeks holidays after giving birth just because they carried a baby for 9 months!

Except it was barely 5 in this instance."

is disgusting. She had the baby 4 months earlier. Oh well, she won't need as much rest then.

hatrickjacqueline Mon 16-Jul-07 18:55:50

Anyway Mozhe, what you staying in? I guess swimming will be out for you?

Did you get the photo in the end?

StressedEric Mon 16-Jul-07 18:57:50

This has to be a wind up - is it the Steve bloke, who was behind JF? Wasn#t he a pyschiatrist too?
I think it was the waterski comment that convinced me that we have got ourselves worked up by a troll.

VeniVidiVickiQV Mon 16-Jul-07 18:57:55

Crikey. This thread is everything about Mumsnet that has been dull, predictable and shite recently.

Some really awful stuff on here. Agree with custy et al.

hatrickjacqueline Mon 16-Jul-07 18:59:07

Nobody ever needs a holiday though do they? it is just a nice thing to do to help you relax and sort of clear your head. I would actually say that this wasn't really a holiday but more of a break from a pretty stressful time?

chocolatedot Mon 16-Jul-07 19:00:37

I have a number of friends who make a habit of disappearing off on luxury holidays without their newborns and other small children (the French in particular seem to specialise in this). It utterly baffles me as I simpaly can't understand why pople don't accept that life has different stages.

DH and I have done St Barts many times in the past (it's fab) and I'm sure that once our children have grown up, we'll do so again. But right now, we have small children who need us and rely on us and therefore at the moment,our precious holiday time has to be spent with them, It's only a decade or so out of a lifetime for goodness sake.

I think Mumsnet is great for getting a taste of what people out there REALLY think of your choices.

sallystrawberry Mon 16-Jul-07 19:08:48

Mozhe
not interested in all the fuss tbh
but
if you aupair/nanny is ill for some reason and you need a replacement give us a shout, I'd be up for a few weeks in St Barts

HermionesPatronus Mon 16-Jul-07 19:10:02

***ALERT***

Mohze is only taking the twins!! The boys are staying with the inlaws




triple

edam Mon 16-Jul-07 19:12:29

Who are we to judge if Mozhe needs a holiday?

She's not abandoning her baby, she's leaving him the expert hands of doctors and midwives and her dh.

This thread is really disturbing. Shows how women love to judge each other for not living up to some stereotype of the perfect mother. Some of the posts are so unkind they border on cruelty.

sallystrawberry Mon 16-Jul-07 19:12:46

yeah thats fine with me Im sure we can find the twins a kids club to keep them occupied, my bags are packed and ready Mozhe you just say the word

edam Mon 16-Jul-07 19:14:01

And, tbh, it's distasteful to imply Mozhe is abandoning her baby. SCBUs do often have to take care of babies who really have been abandoned, or taken away by ss.

If you want to get your knickers in a twist, why not do something constructive, like donate money to Bliss?

pigleto Mon 16-Jul-07 19:18:39

if she were real - which I doubt very much - she would be a bloody hard woman.

yelnats Mon 16-Jul-07 19:21:08

Oh my god!! Are you seriously going to leave your new baby in SCBU while you go to the Caribbean?? Is this a wind up or something? They are only tiny for a very very short time and you will be missing out on that special time with your little one. I couldnt even consider leaving any of mine at such a young age - and they weren't in SCBU!! Sorry if I have missed something in the post/thread - not read all.

TheCodDelusion Mon 16-Jul-07 19:21:23

edam i think its hte way its posted
not" ihaev had a shit time feel really drained need to focus on the toher kids"
its " whoo howo look at me arent i clever" that irks

nailpolish Mon 16-Jul-07 19:21:59

YES!
i agree with Cod

lljkk Mon 16-Jul-07 19:23:16

Would it actually be worth the jetlag to go to Caribean for a week with 2 14-month old toddlers? I imagine it takes at least 4 days for toddlers to get onto local time, each way. That 4 days would just be so grim, when you're an adult struggling to get over jetlag, too.

Of course, we know Mozhe probably sleeps well en route, flying 1st class with her little cherubs, much to the delight of her fellow passengers no doubt.

twofalls Mon 16-Jul-07 19:24:09

If the OP said "I am drained, depressed, feel like I need to get away from it all, too much to deal with, can't cope" etc, etc, etc she may have had a little bit more sympathy. As it is, it sounds like she has been given a work jolly.

twofalls Mon 16-Jul-07 19:25:10

sorry, x post. <note to self, keep up with thread>.

Quattrocento Mon 16-Jul-07 19:27:21

Mozhe I am very sorry to have read some of the unsupportive comments on this thread. I personally have no idea how (even with nanny plus aupair) you cope with six children and a demanding career. You are fab and you should enjoy your break. Love to little mozhe.

edam Mon 16-Jul-07 19:28:41

Oh, I get it, it's because Mozhe isn't humble enough, I see...

Why DO so many people expect her to make abject apologies for making a decision about her own family's welfare?

compo Mon 16-Jul-07 19:29:29

Has anyone actually answered the OP?

"Any one been before ? Any pointers ? Off first thing tomorrow...... "

she didn't ask for a heated debate!

She's probably packing... lol

coddy Mon 16-Jul-07 19:30:21

quattor plummets in cods esteem

coddy Mon 16-Jul-07 19:30:35

edam
oyu are wasting your breath.

chocolatedot Mon 16-Jul-07 19:30:36

The fact that it is the worst time of the year to be in the Carribbean and the best to be somewhere like Ile de Re in France makes it all the more bizarre.

compo Mon 16-Jul-07 19:31:16

choclatedot - you are on the verge of answering her - maybe you should suggesat clothes to take

Pinions Mon 16-Jul-07 19:32:55

Can I just ask a very simple question.

Is this a "fraud" or is it, and the OP for real?

twofalls Mon 16-Jul-07 19:33:55

compo, sadly I have a feeling that she knew that a heated debate would be had.

Enid Mon 16-Jul-07 19:33:59

"I personally have no idea how (even with nanny plus aupair) you cope with six children and a demanding career"

lol

coddy Mon 16-Jul-07 19:34:30

she ignores them

thast how she copes

enid monsoon sale

coddy Mon 16-Jul-07 19:34:50

2falsl of course she did fgs

Enid Mon 16-Jul-07 19:35:45

lol @ cod

compo Mon 16-Jul-07 19:35:55

rofl @ Enid

twofalls Mon 16-Jul-07 19:36:31

so I don't know why we are all still indulging her. Me included.

I'm off!

nutcracker Mon 16-Jul-07 19:36:56

So all of you that are in support of this trip are saying then that if your own child was in hospital and there was a risk that he could get ill or worse whilst you were away, you'd still go ??

The baby was born at 27 weeks, that is very prem. One day they can be great and the next not so great. Sorry but I just don't get it, why why why would you take that risk that you might not be there if your baby needed you.

nutcracker Mon 16-Jul-07 19:38:41

Not trying to be nasty, or wishing any ill fate towards anyone, but my friend helped deliver a 27 weeker last week and the baby did really well for 3 days, and then died.

I am not saying that this would happen to Mozhe's baby but how can anyone take that risk.

CatIsSleepy Mon 16-Jul-07 19:39:29

nutcracker-if she is for real (and I have my doubts)-it's her decision.
nothing to do with anyone else or what anyone else would do.

LL - About as disgusting as saying, my baby is in NICU and only 27 weeks old and I'm off to the Caribbean for some waterskiing with the Nanny and a couple of the kids. DH and the au pair can take the rest of them in a couple of weeks.

nutcracker Mon 16-Jul-07 19:41:04

Oh i see, so we were expected to read the OP and not post anything. What was the point of posting then ?

Am confused, and seriously hope that the OP is not for real.

Absolutely ridiculous. Never heard such a load of bullshit in my life. As if anyone in their right mind would ever do that in a million years.

On the slim off chance it is real then its disgusting, neglectful and Mohze should be ashamed of herself - never mind braggin about holidays. Pathetic.

Why would a psychiatrist be asking a psychologist for advice anyway??? A child psychologist would have nothing to do with adult mental health anyway.

coddy Mon 16-Jul-07 19:41:57

connie arent we all shit htough?

Quattrocento Mon 16-Jul-07 19:42:54

Enid why is that funny? I wasn't meaning to be funny. I think it would be almost impossible to have six children and a demanding career. Even with multiple nannies doing rotating shifts...

coddy Mon 16-Jul-07 19:43:39

its hilarious
you must loive in a differnet world ot us

This is the shittiest thing I've read for a while.

Quattrocento Mon 16-Jul-07 19:45:11

Cod - sorry to plummet - I am running up behind you and shouting chips in an effort to restore myself to a state of grace! I understand you all doubt who she is but we don't know for sure do we?

LucyJones Mon 16-Jul-07 19:45:37

because quattro some people ahve 6 kids, a job and no nanny or aupair

AugustusRookWhooosh Mon 16-Jul-07 19:45:53

Sorry but when does the Monsoon sale start?????

jajas Mon 16-Jul-07 19:46:11

I have twins who were 10 weeks premature and they were in SCBU for 2 months. I can't pretend that I was by their side 24 hours a day because as someone else said you are scared to death that they will die so you can't bear to let yourself bond with them too closely . BUT the idea of travelling that far away is quite mind boggling as anything can happen in a very short period of time. One of my twins developed scalded skin syndrome and all his skin split and peeled off. He was in extreme pain, on morphine and in an isolation unit within SCBU, the condition developed very quickly and I was terrified that he wouldn't survive. The idea of being on the other side of the world lying on a beach whilst something this happened is a bit beyond me to be honest

coddy Mon 16-Jul-07 19:46:43

now online

lljkk Mon 16-Jul-07 19:47:29

Er, yes, Quatro100 -- the word "impossible" does seem quite applicable.

FioFioJane Mon 16-Jul-07 19:49:01

I have left all my children with the norland nanny before now to go to the caribean, i feel its my duty as a mother to do this. The babies have always had a good supply of milk from the labrodor so to be honest i cannot see the problem

coddy Mon 16-Jul-07 19:49:16

lol

Quattrocento Mon 16-Jul-07 19:50:39

Oh well I get your drift Lucy but they must be superhuman. Am stressed up to my eyeballs with one job and two children. Gawd only knows how anyone copes with more (either jobs or children that is).

Blandmum Mon 16-Jul-07 19:50:51

Don't be so bloody daft Fio2. everyone knows that labrodor milk isn't good enough. The closest animal milk to human milk is that of the white rhino. Now be a good mumy and pop out and get some, there is a dear.

PS have a nice time.

daisybo Mon 16-Jul-07 19:51:35

i can't believe this woman is for real
there are studies proving that presence of mum can make huge difference to recovery of ill/prem babies.
and as for the comment 'we don't really know each other yet' err duh? haven't you been part of the same body for 7 months???

poor poor baby

lljkk Mon 16-Jul-07 19:54:24

Yes Fio, but is it an organic labrador and has it been wearing a good quality sunscreen, lately?

jajas Mon 16-Jul-07 19:55:54

I'll never forget the time one of my twins opened his eyes briefly (when still only weighing a couple of lbs) I was standing watching him through his SCBU unit, it was amazing and although he obviously didn't know who I was, I imagine it was the beginning of us getting to know each other. Not sure about kangaroo care in France, but we were allowed to hold our babies albeit very briefly and with oxygen and monitors attached, from quite early on.

CristinaTheAstonishing Mon 16-Jul-07 19:57:37

I've made up my mind: Mozhe is a troll.

Where's UCM?

She was trying really hard last night to stir up some shit .

UCM is that you?

lljkk Mon 16-Jul-07 19:59:46

Is there anything worth watching on TV tonite?

I have terrible morning sickness which keeps me from sleeping, and I need to find some form of entertainment other than keeping checking this thread.

LaBoheme Mon 16-Jul-07 20:00:24

Best of luck Mozhe, enjoy your break I truly hope things work out for you. at some of the distasteful and spiteful comments on this thread, why people think you are such fair game I will never know...

Marne Mon 16-Jul-07 20:00:45

sorry but theres no way i could leave my child/prem baby to go half way round the world, call me nasty if you will but i think it is wrong wrong wrong. I know the baby is in the best place but if anything happened (cross fingers that it does'nt) i would never forgive myself for not being with my child when it needed me most.

Sorry but this to me seams very selfish and

JARM Mon 16-Jul-07 20:07:23

I cant comment.... or im trying not to.

nightowl Mon 16-Jul-07 20:11:12

wow.

bad to give your child a fruit shoot.

never mind maccy d's.

god forbid they should eat a greggs sausage roll in their lifetime.

or go to a soft play centre.


but its fine to leave little preemie in scbu while mummy pisses off on holiday?

i just love mumsnet.

she needs a break? well dont we all. surely when you have kids you dont expect it to be easy? you make sacrifices?

i was 19, sitting staring at my little preemie in his incubator and being treated like shit by midwives who were happy to interrogate me about where i lived, what i did, why was i too scared to pick him up? monitors beeping shouldn't frighten me, he's my baby and i should get it through my head that i had to look after him, while i sit there in pain from cs and upset because no one was giving me any help or support.

when all the time i could have taken a holiday! why didnt i think of that?

sophable Mon 16-Jul-07 20:16:42

there are so many things that occur to me whilst i skim this thread.

but the only one i think it is worth writing down is that it appears to count for nothing at all that the child's father is there. kangaroo care (skin to skin for preemies) is often done by father as mother too ill. the child is no abandoned, but has it's father there at all times.

but on here it is like that is completely irrelevant.

The point isn't about father being there. Mozhe isn't sick (well at least not physically if she's getting up on waterskiis!). She CAN be by her baby's side...

chocolatedot Mon 16-Jul-07 20:20:29

sophable, what do you think the response would be if a father of a premature baby who was in an incubator came on and asked for holiday tips for a trip to the Carribbean?

moljam Mon 16-Jul-07 20:20:35

omg!skimmed thread(read half then got bored)my youngest ds was poorly at birth and i was so upset when they took him for tests,i wanted to stay with him.i cant imagine thinking/wanting to go away!but whatever rocks your boat i suppose.unbelievable.

nightowl Mon 16-Jul-07 20:21:56

then why not go all the way? get the au pair to do skin to skin and both the parents can get a "well earned rest"

baby wont know any different.

sophable Mon 16-Jul-07 20:21:56

well, i'm guessing not the same as this one, particularly if he was taking two of the children with him....

sophable Mon 16-Jul-07 20:22:31

THAT'S my point.....might as well be an au pair eh, if it isn't mummy????

bolleaux.

nightowl Mon 16-Jul-07 20:25:44

i just dont understand how a mother could leave her little preemie to go have fun. end of. i wouldn't do it, i dont understand it.

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 20:27:48

at the risk of repeating myself (and boring everyone) they don't do kangaroo care in France - there is no skin to skin in this case.

coddy Mon 16-Jul-07 20:28:38

i agree that the father is ignroed but its the TONE that irks me

petty i am sure

sophable Mon 16-Jul-07 20:29:28

tone is off...but that could be anything couldn't it? including denial....doesn't necessarily mean callous cow...although it might.

yes but she is clearly winding you all up

It could not be more obvious from the tone of the first post!

nothing Mozhe likes more IIRC

coddy Mon 16-Jul-07 20:30:07

i rememebr post ntatally wiht ds3 i wanted us all to eb together

alone

no visitors

i think she is rekcelss if not negligent ot go away
same for the dad

maisym Mon 16-Jul-07 20:32:31

kew - how do you know they don't do skin to skin contact in france? Seems strange that they wouldn't?

lljkk Mon 16-Jul-07 20:32:53

I believe Baby Tristan is still ventilated, hence kangaroo care may not be worth the risks it entails, although I imagine you can still touch and fondle a baby on a ventilator (can't you?) getting skin-2-skin that way.

Travel tips for St. Barts... why would you ask on MN when Google can tell all, anyway?

nightowl Mon 16-Jul-07 20:33:49

would really love to see a 17 year old writing a similar post on here and the reactions. would be interesting im sure.

you're right countess. sucked in again

<bounces off to find nice fluffy thread...>

Kewcumber Mon 16-Jul-07 20:36:07

maisym - I don't "know", I said I thought that they discouraged it with a baby that small earlier and asked anyone to correct me. A couple of posters said it was their understanding too. Am quite prepared to say I'm wrong if they know better.

AlphaMummyIsStinkingRich Mon 16-Jul-07 20:36:33

What would Mumsnet know about successful people and their lifestyle choices? You're all second-rate common folk. Mothers like me can handle having 63 children, a fleet of staff and a really important job. Top that!

<swaggers off enjoying being the centre of attention and the focus of all mumsnetters jealousy>

jajas Mon 16-Jul-07 20:36:42

I couldn't do the kangaroo thing whilst the babies were ventilated but I could still stroke them and hold their hands through the porthole thing in the side of the incubators. I was also kept in hospital for the first couple of weeks so only 2 mins away if anything went wrong, which it did from time to time. I was so shell shocked by the whole experience that I couldn't even walk down the ward to get my own lunch, the idea of getting on a plane and flying off on holiday seems utterly inconceivable to me.

Cammelia Mon 16-Jul-07 20:39:43

Yah Alpha, know what you mean, no point in having it if you can't flash it is there

nightowl Mon 16-Jul-07 20:40:16

yes, one more post. the one thing i vividly remember about ds was that it was three days before i could hold him. he was ventilated and i could touch his hand through the little porthole type thing, that was all.

three days. not a long time but it nearly killed me not being able to hold my own child. cant imagine jetting off abroad.

IsabelWatchingItRainInMacondo Mon 16-Jul-07 20:40:27

The thing that I find worst about this thread is that so many mums have come with painful memories trying to convince a likely troll.

Mozhe is fishing for a reaction in each of her posts in this thread, I think she is just having fun at the price of genuinely upsetting some mums, particularly those who have been in the same situation.

DiagonAllieBongo Mon 16-Jul-07 20:41:37

this is hideous. mohze must surely have fur on her hands and drive a truck

maisym Mon 16-Jul-07 20:41:50

no problem kew - it just seemed such a huge statement to make!

I see what the others mean and being able to stroke your baby in the incubator and be there must be just what the little one needs.

thomcat Mon 16-Jul-07 20:43:49

I'm not here to judge but Mozhe - if you are still reading - my DD was born with SN's and was in SCBU. I ws staying in with her. On day 3 of her life it was my God-daughters birthday and I got a pass out for the night. Thought it would do me good and wanted to be with my Goddaughter. I wasn't prepared for how I felt being away from my DD. It was awful and the shock of the situation and her being in the hospital without me was too much to bear and I rushed back to her side. It was more about how everything that had been going on really hit me when I was away from her and it was pretty awful. We're very different people but it'd just a friendly word of warning.

Hope your LO is out of hospital soon.

DiagonAllieBongo Mon 16-Jul-07 20:44:27

is this for real?

thomcat Mon 16-Jul-07 20:47:10

I'm not here to judge but Mozhe - if you are still reading - my DD was born with SN's and was in SCBU. I ws staying in with her. On day 3 of her life it was my God-daughters birthday and I got a pass out for the night. Thought it would do me good and wanted to be with my Goddaughter. I wasn't prepared for how I felt being away from my DD. It was awful and the shock of the situation and her being in the hospital without me was too much to bear and I rushed back to her side. It was more about how everything that had been going on really hit me when I was away from her and it was pretty awful. We're very different people but it'd just a friendly word of warning.

Hope your LO is out of hospital soon.

Hulababy Mon 16-Jul-07 20:49:20

How old is the baby?

I am sure you will have a great time and enjoy yourself.

I personally could not leave a poorly newborn baby. I couldn't have left my very healthy newborn TBH though. My whole body needed to be with her, getting to know here, beonding, nurturing and caring for her.

Each to there own.

When posting this you MUST have realised that this would be seen as unacceptable to many people, and that people would judge. If you didn't then you are very niave.

IsabelWatchingItRainInMacondo Mon 16-Jul-07 20:57:16

a week old, aparently

ELF1981 Mon 16-Jul-07 21:12:30

WOW
I am in shock.

My company asked me to fly to Dublin for a few days to stay in one of their new offices. I refused to unless I could arrange to take DD. She's not yet two and I haven't got to the stage where I feel comfortable not seeing her every day and it will take a long time before I agree for her to stop at somebodies house all night.

While I appreciate that I cannot know what it is like to be in the OP's shoes, and I pray I never do, surely it would be better to wait a little while and then arrange a holiday?

Controlfreakyflitwick your comment about her being a hair arsed trucker from the East midlands, I take offense, I am from the East midlands myself and trust me, we're far too normal to start this type of thread!!

HermionesPatronus Mon 16-Jul-07 21:16:37

edam - i am sure they are

maybe some behaviour being 'judged' also borders on cruelty

HelenLoveJoyOfSpringfield Mon 16-Jul-07 21:16:56

Who is zookeeper??

She's been licking mozhe's arse in every thread I've read


For the record... Mozhe can not have a maternal bone in her body...

dassie Mon 16-Jul-07 21:18:44

My cousin (in France) had a premature baby and she cuddled her loads etc. Then they discovered she had a whole in her heart after a couple of weeks and she was in and out of hospital. My cousin was allowed to be with her as much as she could etc. So I don't think its that different in France.

yogimum Mon 16-Jul-07 21:21:08

I'm sure its hurricane season in the caribbean? What if you got stuck out there and couldn't get back?

LoonyLyraLovegood Mon 16-Jul-07 21:22:35

Why are you all reacting to this? There's nothing Mozhe likes more than to stir up anger with her provocative posting.
I don't believe half the stuff she posts.

HermionesPatronus Mon 16-Jul-07 21:22:50

but what about the other 3 children ?? dont they need a holiday

all the boys can stay put whilst Mohze has some 'girly'time

i dont buy any of this

Hulababy Mon 16-Jul-07 21:23:10

TBH I am a tad suprised at how many posters think that going on a long haul holiday, with half the family, leaving the other half back home, two weeks after a birth and wtih a 2 week old newborn poorly in special care, is perfectly acceptable and normal!

batters Mon 16-Jul-07 21:23:13

<<batters reads thread agog and wonders when it will get deleted>>

parceltongueisnotgibberish Mon 16-Jul-07 21:25:19

Can't help but think mozhe is having a good chortle about the responses.

tribpot Mon 16-Jul-07 21:25:42

Hula - I do it all the time

(Have nothing to add but felt it was worth putting my name down on this thread just for the record)

HermionesPatronus Mon 16-Jul-07 21:29:15

agree hulababy!! Plus mumsnetters then labling mozhes critics heartless and unfair

eleusis Mon 16-Jul-07 21:29:38

There is some really vile stuff on this thread and none of it is posted under the name Mozhe. It has been a bitof a running joke, really, that she and Xenia run back to work and no one can comprehend it. So, here she has posted in a very light hearted fashion hey look guys I'm not going back after all. And up rose the depths of Hell to condemn her qualifications as a mother. FFS, behave yourselves.

Some people of course have said hey it's not for me I think your crazy but it's your choice. And I am not referring to those posts. I tend to agree with you. I probably wouldn't go more than a mile from that hospital. But,then I'm not Mozhe.

HonoriaGlossop Mon 16-Jul-07 21:43:24

Yes Hula Mozhe's motivation must have alot to do with attention seeking; the situation she's describing is very unusual indeed and she knows mumsnet and I'm sure knew very well indeed how this thread would develop.

Mozhe, I wish you a good holiday and from my heart I wish that you are lucky and that nothing goes wrong with your baby while you are gone. I understand that this is a choice you make consistent with your style of parenting but I think any parent would regret not being around should something go seriously wrong. The baby's father is there and as you say you would not go otherwise, however in the worst case scenario would his presence make up for you not being there?

As I say statistically I'm sure luck is on your side and I sincerely wish that all goes well. But not a choice that many people could make.

emkana Mon 16-Jul-07 21:48:57

I agree with cod that it's the tone that is rather shocking.

Ds wasn't in SCBU, but he had to spend five days on the paediatric ward when he was less than a week old.

To be perfectly honest, I didn't really want to be there. I was in shock, and my overwhelming feeling was that I wanted to be with my dd's. I was so worried about their reaction to the situation, and I was missing them desperately.

Nevertheless I stayed with ds the whole time, because I felt it was my duty as his mother to do this, and I'm glad I did. I certainly couldn't have gone this far away.

The tone was purposely very flippant and provocative, I felt.

Bubble99 Mon 16-Jul-07 21:52:34

If this is for real, mozhe, then I think you may be in shock or some kind of post-partum thing.

My DS3 was in a SCBU after his twin died during labour. TBH, I was in such a state, I almost forgot that he even existed and had to be gently cajoled by the MWs to go and see him after 12 hours.

So, is this some kind of a 'denial' thing? Because I think you must know that to leave a newborn, well or otherwise, is not a good thing to do.

If this is a wind-up, then it is a particularly cruel one...

HonoriaGlossop Mon 16-Jul-07 21:55:30

that's my point, binkle.

Tis the mental health professionals who often have the most...ahem...interesting psychological make-up.

i can say that only cos I work kind of in this area but am not what would be classed as a MH professional.

sweetkitty Mon 16-Jul-07 22:05:56

at this thread

Was going to stay away but sod it here's my opinion - I personally could never leave a premmie baby to jet off to the other side of the world. I probably am too attached to my DC's I've never left them overnight or for more than half a day.

We aren't going on holiday this year because having an 18mo and a 3yo to us it wouldn't be a holiday having to look after them in a strange country. So to me having a rest would not be taking 2 14 mo twins on holiday.

Whether it's true or not I think the "Look at me I've 5 kids, a brilliant career, loads of hired help, can jet off to St Barts on a private plane 2 weeks after my baby is born" just smacks of someone trying too hard. I'm sure there are people like this they just get on and do it and don't come on mumsnet to broadcast it.

Walnutshell Mon 16-Jul-07 22:11:46

Maybe it's the lure of the little following crowd of admirers that can't be resisted, sweetkitty?

Or just bollocks.

mummylin Mon 16-Jul-07 22:30:40

I find it very strange that a mum who dosent seem to have the normal maternal bond to her little newborn would even think of having six children.Maybe its me thats odd !

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 22:31:35

maybe its becuase all newborns are ugly?

LoonyLyraLovegood Mon 16-Jul-07 22:32:26

Well said, sweetkitty.

LoonyLyraLovegood Mon 16-Jul-07 22:32:57

custardo, my newborns were gorgeous

JeremyVile Mon 16-Jul-07 22:34:23



Lots of people dont have the 'normal maternal bond' and go on to be fabulous, loving mothers.

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 22:35:42

nope all ugly

HermionesPatronus Mon 16-Jul-07 22:36:43

she is not too loving to her older boys - they gat to say home with gran
just the girls on waterskis

Quattrocento Mon 16-Jul-07 22:37:58

custy you are both right. All newborns are ugly to the disinterested observer. To the besotted parents though, they're something else.

Loshad Mon 16-Jul-07 22:38:25

HG - too true, very rare you meet a sane psychiatrist, my DH is one, but most of the others i know are barking.

JeremyVile Mon 16-Jul-07 22:38:41

So are you condemning anyone who might go on holiday, leaving their dcs with gps as unloving?

Or just Mozhe?

Beachcomber Mon 16-Jul-07 22:40:35

If this isn't a wind up then what strikes me is that if someone posted saying that they were planning on leaving a *healthy fullterm* newborn in order to take a completely unneccesary holiday, loads of us would think that was bonkers.

To say that a prem baby won't miss the mother is heartless, misinformed and a total disrespect of this poor baby.

HermionesPatronus Mon 16-Jul-07 22:40:48

they have been through a tough time too
dad at hosp 24/7
twins with mum on beach
'us left here with nan?' hmmmmmmm

Bubble99 Mon 16-Jul-07 22:41:46

Tsk,tsk,Custy!

You protest too much.

We all know that you have a part-time modelling career and that your last job was as the gurning 'mommy' on the Pampers 'Bibby-Babby-Arse-like-The-Sahara-it's-so-dry.'

Nappy campaign.

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 22:43:10

i went on holiday for two weeks leaving my 3 children under 3 with their dad.

i am not maternal no there then. i don't like babies and they are all ugly so you can stick your schtick up yer arse.

Walnutshell Mon 16-Jul-07 22:43:30

"Lots of people dont have the 'normal maternal bond' and go on to be fabulous, loving mothers."

Simplistic! Irrelevant!

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 22:44:11

sorry bubble none of my last post was intended for you.

hope you are lobbying for an outside area at the xmas doo?

jajas Mon 16-Jul-07 22:44:37

Despite having twins that were very premature, we did leave them with their Granny when they were about 2yrs old. I think the stress and experience of HAVING to leave them in SCBU every night and go home (you couldn't sleep there) made it easier to leave them with grandparents than maybe other people might find it. I have to add that they were fine by then, I think it is the fact that this little chap shouldn't have even been born yet that makes this shocking that his mother could contemplate going so far away. He may be fine now but as we found through our experience, they can deteriorate very quickly as they are so tiny and have little physical resource to call on.

JeremyVile Mon 16-Jul-07 22:45:03

The assumptions being made about Mozhe and her family are bizarre, how on earth do you know that the DSs dont actually love being with the GPs?

You dont. None of us do.

Hulababy Mon 16-Jul-07 22:45:30

I think after 2 years is much more acceptable. However this is 2 weeks old!!!

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 22:45:52

mumylyn said"I find it very strange that a mum who dosent seem to have the normal maternal bond to her little newborn would even think of having six children."


so its not irrelevent - in fact its a perfectly reasonable answer from jeremyvile

JeremyVile Mon 16-Jul-07 22:45:57

Walnut - what about that statement is simplistic or irrelevent?

JeremyVile Mon 16-Jul-07 22:46:25

Ta Custy

harpsichordcuddler Mon 16-Jul-07 22:46:43

by AugustusRookWhooosh on Mon 16-Jul-07 18:27:00
He is too young and under-developed to miss his Mother.

nah, bollocks. new born babies know their mothers, they know how their mothers smell and the sound of their voice, they have been with them for nine months ffs, they become distrssed when separated from them.
the first six weeks of a baby's life is fkg crucial for brain and emotional development.
if they baby is not bonding with his mother, then who is he bodning with.
I must say that the phrase "incubator watching duties" is quite the most saddening thing I have heard in a very long while.

JeremyVile Mon 16-Jul-07 22:48:54

"I must say that the phrase "incubator watching duties" is quite the most saddening thing I have heard in a very long while."

Really?

madamez Mon 16-Jul-07 22:56:38

And the level of emotional incontinence is rising and rising - someone get a mop and bucket, quick! The trouble with the emotionally incontinent is they can't bear anyone else to think or behave in any way differently to how they themselves behave. So the perfectly valid position of leaving one's newborn in the hands of experts (and his father) is either wanton cruelty (why exactly?) or - the classic mundane argument - signs that something is Wrong with the OP - she's not Normal? You know, there's not actually anything wrong with being different from the herd. And certainly nothing wrong with exercising a little self-restraint despite people coming up all gloopy eyed and clammy handed to insist that you're in 'denial of your feelings' or some other such crap.

Oh, and fair play to the posters who state that they did more than once want to walk away from their newborns: feeling like that doesn;t make you mad or be either. This bonding stuff has no basis in biochemistry, it's socially constructed: people used to have hordes of children in the full expectation that only about half of them would survive and even now, in developing countries, existing children get prioritised over sickly newborns.

harpsichordcuddler Mon 16-Jul-07 22:56:44

yes. why not?
a premature baby is still a baby, a person.
it doesn't just need "watching", it is not a fucking cake that might burn.

expatinscotland Mon 16-Jul-07 22:57:36

I wish I could walk away from my shit job.

Right now, in fact.

Life's a trade off - for some more than others.

Horses for courses, let them all get on with it.

twofalls Mon 16-Jul-07 22:57:45

For those of you who think this is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, would you think the same if the Mozhe was a teenage single mum and had buggered of with her mates to Ibiza for a week leaving her mum holding the fort? I think not.

Beachcomber Mon 16-Jul-07 22:57:46

I found 'incubator watching duties' to be very strange.

Offensive if OP is a troll and worrying if OP is for real.

Umm there is a baby in there you know.

madamez Mon 16-Jul-07 23:00:08

Twofalls: if the hypothetical teenage mum left her baby in the safe hands of its own grandmother, I fail to see what would be the problem with her having a holiday? Is it just that mundanes get uneasy at any suggestion that mothers are human beings rather than baby-servicing mechanisms?

harpsichordcuddler Mon 16-Jul-07 23:00:08

madamez, with respect that's bollocks too.
there is plenty of historical evidence to suggest that even when rates of infant mortality are/were high, the sense of loss was/is very real.
actually there is biochemical evidence about bonding and attachment, but even if there wasn't, why should something only be real if it is "chemical"
"social constructs" are very real. like love, like all human relationships.

sophable Mon 16-Jul-07 23:00:33

i'm loving your definition of emotional incontinence, will file it and use it to the full...thanks madamez.

Walnutshell Mon 16-Jul-07 23:00:59

JV - Apologies if I have misunderstood and read your post out of context (it is a hard thread to follow while watching, erm, BB ).

I thought you were simplifying a decision to leave a young baby with a 'fuck it, it'll all work out eventually'* attitude. My mistake evidently.

*god there must be a word for this, it's too late...

twofalls Mon 16-Jul-07 23:01:04

And madamez, ignoring all your vitriolic claptrap about the "emotionally incontitent" amongst us, yes many people do want to walk away from their babies at some point or other. The point is most don't. And if they did, they probably wouldn't post on an internet chat room in such a flippant manner.

harpsichordcuddler Mon 16-Jul-07 23:01:38

madamez, what about the baby?
do you think the baby will notice that his mother is not there?
oh no, don't worry, someone will be watching the incubator

EscapeFrom Mon 16-Jul-07 23:02:16

Oh madamez, I can't let that pass, it just isn't true.

sophable Mon 16-Jul-07 23:03:40

having said that agree re bonding HC.

fact is we don't actually know what is going on in mozhe's head do we....she just gave birth, so is not in the most rational place in the world ever.

might be in shock.

madamez Mon 16-Jul-07 23:03:45

Harpsi: social constructs of behaviour may well feel real to most peole at the time they are popular, but enough propaganda will change them fast enough.
The thing is with all this bullshit about bonding, if a mother is ill or badly injured or soemthing when she has a newborn, and has to spend weeks in hospital undergoing medical treatment on her own account or, for instance, has to leave her sick newborn to sit at the bedside of her sick older child or something, everyone will be falling over themselves to assure this hypothetical mother that it doesn't matter, that the care she gives her newborn as the baby grows up is what matters.
It's only if a woman wants to leave her newborn to (gasp, shriek, puke) enjoy herself that the outrage kicks in.

twofalls Mon 16-Jul-07 23:05:30

And as for "mothers are human beings rather than baby-servicing mechanisms" - I don't think wanting to be with your newborn baby is classified as a "baby-servicing mechanism" tbh.

Well not in my book anyway. Honestly, I do wonder why some people have them ffs.

expatinscotland Mon 16-Jul-07 23:05:32

Fair point, madamez.

sophable Mon 16-Jul-07 23:05:49

they might fall over themselves to reassure.

but it won't take her much reading to discover that it has big consequences....consequences that can be somewhat mitigated if those effects are recognised and taken seriously.

but there are big effects.

no reason for vitriol imo tho.

sophable Mon 16-Jul-07 23:07:10

'It's only if a woman wants to leave her newborn to (gasp, shriek, puke) enjoy herself that the outrage kicks in.'

have to agree massively with this statement.

and it what i dislike intensely about this thread.

it's not actually the fact that she isn't there, it's how and why she isn't there....

and evidently fathers count for absolutely jack shit.

expatinscotland Mon 16-Jul-07 23:07:34

Well, geez, I had them because I wanted to. Because I loved them even before they were born. I loved just the idea of them.

And I was too fucking poor to stay home with them. With a disabled husband and now, a disabled child.

Woe is me, yeah right!

FFS. No one knows someone's true situation! Maybe she's depressed. Maybe she's up to her arse in debt. Etc., etc.

Get a damn life! The kid's loved and well-cared for.

Why isn't that enough?

Such a shame-based culture. What's with that?

ladylush Mon 16-Jul-07 23:08:16

She's not going on a hedonistic clubbing extravaganza to Ibiza is she. She's taking her twins, whom she is still breast feeding.

expatinscotland Mon 16-Jul-07 23:08:35

Exactly, soph. It's so sexist it's not true.

DH stayed home with our two girls. Still does during the day, for now.

harpsichordcuddler Mon 16-Jul-07 23:08:48

no I disagree with that madamez. the effect is the same.
I don't really much care about mohze, and what she chooses to do. I care about the baby though.
and of course there is a moral difference in your example. if there is a deleterious effect on the baby (or a risk there might be), then if there is no alternative then of course the mother must be massively supported in every way.
if the deleterious effect is being risked because the mother wants to go off and enjoy herself, for a week in St Barts hypothetically of course well then that is their choice but I don't really see why I should applaud her.
the first six weeks of life are really very crucial. postnatal women need masses of support and help. I am not sure that includes a free trip sans baby to the Caribbean though. call me a misreable old killjoy

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 23:09:14

my girl was took away when she was born to scbu. i took her brother home. for obvious reasons i couldnt spend too much time in hospital becuase i had another baby - ad at that time i was told to keep him away from potentially week babies - for fear of infection etc.

needless to say my daughter is not completely fucked up becuase i wasn't at her side for two weeks.

Walnutshell Mon 16-Jul-07 23:09:55

I'm not reading the criticism or lack of understanding for the decision made by M as representing that fathers count for "jack shit". Nope, I'm just not seeing it.

Might go to bed instead of trying.

twofalls Mon 16-Jul-07 23:10:26

Ah, so that is so very different is it ladylush? I don't see the difference at all.

expatinscotland Mon 16-Jul-07 23:10:50

Quite the contrary, custy. She's probably got more of her feet on the ground than most!

harpsichordcuddler Mon 16-Jul-07 23:11:22

it isn't really sexism to say that new born babies need their mothers. that's just truth and reality.
if the mother can't be there for some reason, then the baby needs one adult focussed on his needs. that is second best but that person must do more than just watch the baby.
come on, this isn't misogyny, this is just reality. unpalatable maybe.

ladylush Mon 16-Jul-07 23:11:35

Don't you? Hmm, that's interesting.

madamez Mon 16-Jul-07 23:11:51

SOphable: so everyone whose mother was unable to be with them 24/7 for the first few weeks/months of their lives is going to have lasting problems, no matter how good the care they got in their mother's absense? I think not.

You know, you (all of you, not just Soph) may not realise it, but you're effectively telling everyone who adopts. or has their LO adopted, or who spent part of their post-partum time in a coma or something, that their DCs are irrevocably damaged. Or do you think that newborns are so In Touch With Ancient Wisdom or some such crap that they actually know whether or not Mummy is away because she's being selfish?

Beachcomber Mon 16-Jul-07 23:12:08

Madamez what a croc of shite!

Of course if a women through circs beyond her control had to leave a baby then folk would try to be nice about it.

As you point out the key word is enjoy. Lots of us think it is strange (or untrue) that a parent could enjoy themselves whilst leaving their extremely premature baby.

expatinscotland Mon 16-Jul-07 23:12:41

I'm so glad I've got an HV, paed, and therapists who see how life is for most working mums.

For I'd reckon 80% of us, this is NOT some damn choice!

And it has nothing to do with a big mortgage, or wanting the latest gadgets or foreign holidays or anything besides food on the table, the rent paid and the bailiffs away from the door.

So get off the high horses, people and thank your lucky stars you had a choice to make that wasn't Carer's Allowance.

HermionesPatronus Mon 16-Jul-07 23:14:14

agree beachcomber she is talking through her arse

madamez Mon 16-Jul-07 23:14:34

Beachcomber: but that's the whole point - no one is forcing you to do it, but why assume that the way you react to things is either universal or automatically morally superior?

mummytosteven Mon 16-Jul-07 23:14:40

hmmm. if this is all true, I'm starting to feel a sneaking sympathy for Mozhe - I know that when DS was a newborn, certain of the mws disapproved of me - in my shell shocked way I would traipse off the ward to the shop to buy a paper etc, or go for a shower, without waiting for S to be asleep and was a bit detached. I found the whole hospital setting very alienating.

twofalls Mon 16-Jul-07 23:15:01

I don't think there is any comparison here with people who can't be with their babies. I think what many of us don't understand is why you want to be apart from your premature newborn.

crunchie Mon 16-Jul-07 23:15:11

OK I am reading some of these, not all and although I can see some of your points, I feel I have ot make some of my own.

My PFB was born at 27 weeks, I did not, could not hang over her cot all day and every day like others did. I popped in twice a day, maybe an hour each time. I couldn't do much more, in hindsight it was my coping mechanism, my way of not bonding in case, my way of sticking my head in teh sand. Now until you have been there you cannot say how you will feel. I would be on that plane to St barts with Mozhe.

You all see 'incubator watching' is crue and thay any mother to leave their child for a minute is cruel, and HOW can she do it. Well I never felt DD1 was mine until I got her home. I was not needed, I couldn't do any more for her, indeed my body went 'wrong' and couldn't carry her, and it nearly killed us both. Can some of you not understand what she is doing?? She is distancing herself, yes, think for a second, why???

Do you know what I spent 3 months doing while dd was in hospital?? I went to the cinema, theatre, did the garden, went cycling, swimming, ANYTHING which kept me away from the horrible place that was where my dd was, please before you slag her off, walk one step in her shoes.

I rarely EVER get emotional about the stuff I read here on MN but I am just so very very sad, it is opinions like you lot all had that could have really spiralled me into depression if I wasn't the sort of person I am. I have always blamed myself (and please don't patronise me and say I wasn't to blame, big fucking hugs) in some way I was to blame, noot intentionally mind, but MY BODY didn't work properly, MY BODY got pre-eclampsia, so I think I have every right to blame myself. 8 years on I am well over it, BUT I WAS IN TOTAL DENIAL for those three months, I wasn't really a mother. Mozhe is doing what she can, sepnding time with her other kids, she is right, she cannot DO anything for the baby, that is the point. She needs this time, fucking let her have it.

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 23:15:19

i rather think she is nurturing her relationship with the twins whom she is still breastfeeding. albeit in a reallly really nice location.

I think its lovely that she has the money to do that. i would have loved to have taken my older son away somewhere on my own at the time.

ladylush Mon 16-Jul-07 23:16:51

Excellent post crunchie

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 23:17:00

good post crunchie

Beachcomber Mon 16-Jul-07 23:18:34

"Beachcomber: but that's the whole point - no one is forcing you to do it, but why assume that the way you react to things is either universal or automatically morally superior?"

I don't assume either of these things Madamez.

ladylush Mon 16-Jul-07 23:18:54

Well, that's gone quiet hasn't it!

ladylush Mon 16-Jul-07 23:19:25

Oh, no it hasn't.

HermionesPatronus Mon 16-Jul-07 23:20:22

your post it good crunchie and i take on board your hertfelt comments

i just dont actually believe mozhe

if i did believe her i would remember that had baby Tristan been born full term she would still have gone back to work when hw was 2 weeks old

out of choice

jajas Mon 16-Jul-07 23:20:41

Crunchie I had mine early due to pre-eclampsia too. I also didn't hang around in SCBU for hours every day but if fact spent a lot of it lying in bed recovering then afterwards going out to lunch with my husband and generally taking it easy. I was scared to death of going to see them to be honest, they were so tiny and looked so awful plus the nurses all seemed so competant and I felt like a crock of shit. Still couldn't have flown off on hols though

electra Mon 16-Jul-07 23:20:47

Er, I find it odd that so many people feel they have the right to be so judgemental about this. Whatever you may think it's not really anyone's business if mozhe decides to go away...or am I missing something?

Yes but Cruncie if you read thread there are plenty of other mums who had preemies who wouldn't have dreamt of being away from their baby....

AugustusRookWhooosh Mon 16-Jul-07 23:21:17

Crunchie-a sensible post from someone who has walked in her shoes....

oranges Mon 16-Jul-07 23:21:36

So glad you posted crunchie.

expatinscotland Mon 16-Jul-07 23:21:50

Bravo, crunchie.

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 23:22:04

i don't know what you mean - gone back to work out of choice?

not being faceatious - just thick - please explain - is it something to do with

crunchie = heartbreak
mozhe = not wanting to be near the kid?

Tortington Mon 16-Jul-07 23:22:53

yes kerry and crunchie gave an alternative view - in way of explaination.

StarryStarryNight Mon 16-Jul-07 23:23:32

Very well said, Crunchie.

MintyDixCharrington Mon 16-Jul-07 23:24:25

yes but crunchie - had your baby's heart stopped, or had he got an infection, or had he been diagnosed with a heart defect, or one of the many many things that can happen to 27weekers - would you have wanted to have come into the hospital and be involved and consulted about his care, or would you have wanted to be 3,000 miles and 10 hours flight away?

THAT is the issue, I think, for me anyway. Not that she isn't by his bed, not that he needs to smell her or that she won't bond with him (neither of which I believe) - but that IF something happens she CAN'T be there.

That is the difference, for me.

mummytosteven Mon 16-Jul-07 23:25:28

very good post Crunchie. I had a relatively "normal" birth and experience with DS, and I found the hospital environment highly stressful, couldn't get into things properly till we got home.

crunchie Mon 16-Jul-07 23:26:11

yes kerry and those were there ones who looked at me as if I were dirt when I did go in, it was other sodding mothers who were on their high horses about it all, judging me and finding me failing as a mother. That is my whole point.

TBH if I had had other kids and the £££ mozhe had, who knows I may have been in St Barts.

I seem to rememebr I did go home and didn't see dd for about 36 hrs when she was about a week old. IIRC I saw her for 5 mins in teh 1st 24 hrs, about 10 mins the next day etc etc.

You lot should really get over yourselves and your jealousy, the OP was asking about a shagging holiday, not asking your approval

HermionesPatronus Mon 16-Jul-07 23:27:58

jealousy?

ladylush Mon 16-Jul-07 23:28:28

I can imagine it crunchie - the bastards

crunchie Mon 16-Jul-07 23:28:59

custy I don't see the difference between me and Mozhe, only she had more £££ and other kids.

We all know she is yor ultimate working mum, like Xenia. That is what is right for her. This I truely think is her way of coping.

expatinscotland Mon 16-Jul-07 23:29:33

K, I can see Dix-Carrington's point, too.

Trying to see all sides.

My DD1 is SN. I think, 'Well, that's my lot. Stick with it. I knew there were no guarantees in this.'

jajas Mon 16-Jul-07 23:29:42

I think it was the flippant way that she opened the thread that has got so many people's backs up tbh. Going on about water skiing etc when her baby is still in an incubator is rather tasteless to many.

crunchie Mon 16-Jul-07 23:32:59

Minty yes that could have happened, but I can promise you 100 days hanging over a cot/incubator feeling 100% incompetant is also not my idea of fun.

Once my dd had got through the first 2 week, it simply was a watch her grow period, there was NOTHING I could do. All the scan, all the tests were fine, she just needed to grow.

Anyway I will let some of you judge, her and possibly me. But some of you have met me and knwo I am not the cruel heartless person you think I might be. My way of dealing with issues is 100% denial, that is how I do it, it works for me. I don't pour out all the crap I have no need, I deal with it and move on. And if I can't deal with it, I ignore

MintyDixCharrington Mon 16-Jul-07 23:42:47

nobody thinks you are cruel and heartless crunchie - I have a friend who had a 27 weeker and then a 28 weeker 13 months later so I know what sitting around in NICU is like. She did a lot less of it for the second than she did for the first, I can tell you!
I still think that taking the risk of being so far away at such an early stage is, IMO, a mistake.

Whoever said that having kids was suppossed to be fun?

Sometimes it's bloody hard work. Sometimes it rips the souls from us.

But as parents we do what needs to be done!

Or we shouldn't bother having kids.

ruty Mon 16-Jul-07 23:54:22

gosh mozhe I'm absolutely stunned that you talk about this situation as you do and say that you are a psychologist. I find that really strange. But good luck and hope your baby is fine.

nappyaddict Mon 16-Jul-07 23:58:11

i thought you weren't meant to exercise for 6 weeks until after the birth but if her obs has said it's ok it must be.

i agree with the what will you do if something happens. with preemies things can happen unexpectedly as you said in your brith announcement thread

"Yes refreshments are ace.....and general pampering of maman !!! I could get used to that...
Other things are strange,( like the photos...), also a baby died on the unit yesterday evening,( very ....it was expected as far as I could gather..)and the nursing staff went round all the cots,( incubators..), covering them up ! When I asked why,( sensitively I hope...I was genuinely puzzled ), they said it was ' to protect the privacy of the family'....I didn't understand at all..from other prem newborns ? The other parents were milling around still....maybe thought the sight of a living baby would be too distressing ?? Don't know...Am off to buy some nice flowers for the poor parents now...
Sorry if tmi....it was puzzling that's all
Tristan is fine this am "

what if that was tristan and you were away sunning yourself?

i had the option when ds was 5 weeks old to go on holiday and leave him behind. i took him of course and he was term and healthy (well 38 weeks)

a year on i have had the same option. i am going to greece and leaving him behind for a week. i feel fine in doing this. i left him for 10 days when he was 3 months old but i was in the same country and only 2 hours away.

however she won't have dripping milk as someone said cos she is still breastfeeding. aren't you bleeding still though?

AugustusRookWhooosh Tue 17-Jul-07 00:11:47

But HC-with a baby that early ,that small and fragile,there is little more than watching that a parent can do surely-he also didn'thave 9mts to bond inside.

Not excusingthe decision,just trying to be balanced...

BBBBasilisk Tue 17-Jul-07 00:22:58

I can't understand the original poster - and that is where my opinion stops.

Lots of people jumping on here in a big 'what kind of mother are you?' way but the answer is we don't know what kind of mother she is - having read crunchie's well put post I have realised that I have no idea what she is going through and if this is going to get her through then so be it.

I also have the foresight to see that a bit of slagging off on an internet forum is not going to change her actions just make it worse.

IMO she should not go away and she should seek medical help - but am able to see that that is just MO

nappyaddict Tue 17-Jul-07 02:34:07

i could maybe just about maybe understand going on holiday and leaving a month old healthy baby, but not one that is in hospital and isn't even 3 weeks old yet.

eleusis Tue 17-Jul-07 08:27:37

So, how come no one has commented about the father who wasn't there the frist two weeks but is there the third week while Mozhe runs off to the beach.

Is he a cold unfit father because of his first two weeks away? Yet, Mozhe is accused not being "normal" at her one week away. She has posted several times that he is doing well, they hospital is confident he will continue to do so, and so is she. They are not expecting problems. She said earlier on this thread that the hospital said if something was going to go wrong it probably would have by now.

There are some really mean spirited comments on this thread. Won't be surprised if this thread escalates further and gets deleted.

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 08:31:00

Cos everyone is ignoring the father bit.

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 08:34:19

Honestly - my ds was just as bonded with his dad in the first weeks of birth as he was with me (and I was bf too). I have plenty of pics of them snuggled together. When I was pg dh used to talk to him through my bump and I'm not sure if that made a difference but he sure is v close to his dad. Infact he walks past me to cuddle his dad (which makes me a bit sad sometimes, but I am equally v pleased that they have this bond).

TranquilaManana Tue 17-Jul-07 08:47:14

i think the incredibly rude and nasty posters on here should eb ashamed of themselves.

your post was excellent crunchie.

DoubleBluff Tue 17-Jul-07 09:00:31

Crunchie well put post.
I won't hug you, but very heartfelt.
Unless you are that person who are we to judge.
Everyone copes in different ways.
Would not be surprised if Mozhe never comes back to MN again.
Talk about a witch hunt.

Great post crunchie.

I have never seen any of Xenia's posts but the way some of you talk about her makes me think I'd like her - a lot.

mrsmalaprop Tue 17-Jul-07 09:22:15

Crunchie -

If you read my post from way below, you will know that I felt exactly the same way. People always assume they know how you must be feeling. Friends, family, doctors and nurses kept saying 'you just must want to be with your baby and isn't it awful that you can't be there all the time', but I didn't feel like that. I didn't really feel much at all. I was terrified he was going to die. I was fed up of being on SCBU watching a little lump in a box (maybe heartless, but how I felt)and being scrutinised by the staff in case I wasn't spending enough time there, or wasn't producing enough milk...etc.

It is so easy to say that you would bond with your baby and feel instantly maternal and wouldn't want to tear yourself away, but until it happens and you have all of your maternal instincts denied because you can't touch them, feed them or care for them, you can't know how you would react.

...not that I would have gone on holiday...

Peachy Tue 17-Jul-07 09:34:35

Crunchie thats pretty how my sister reacted (all 3 sisters in our family got pre-eclampsia btw, sister premature but ok; one sister developed it on her due date so was ok; I was 2 weeks early but we've beeen told the problems could be a contributory to ds1's SN- he ahd IUGR, had lost 1lb in utero at elast).

I think even if people think its not what they would choose, its one of those extreme situations where what is happening in poor Mozhe's life is so traumatic that only she can really work out how to handle it for her family and herself.

My only real concern for Mozhe is how she'd feel long term idf something did go wrong and she was too far way, but then only she can answer that.

Mrsmalaprop, I read your post too and thought it was excellent.

My daughter didn't have any of the problems you describe but she was a little premature and just slept for 2 months. I didn't bond with her - was terrified there was something wrong with her. I bonded with her when she emerged from her sleep at 3 months and became a person instead of a tiny scrap of nothing. Again, this is not what some people feel but it's what I felt.

I couldn't have gone on hols but that's because I was too neurotic to do anything but read books on development and obsess.

I'm glad you and crunchie posted.

edam Tue 17-Jul-07 09:42:39

Crunchie and Mrs Malaprop, great posts.

When I visited a SCBU there were only a couple of mothers there. Didn't occur to me for one second to question where the others were - why would it?

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 09:52:59

Minty has hit the nail on the head IMO

FillydoraTonks Tue 17-Jul-07 10:06:04

this is a very odd thread

I can't get my head round it really

If mohze is really buggering off to the carribean and leaving a 3 week old, premature baby in hospital-good luck to her really.

Its a VERY odd thing to post on MN

lljkk Tue 17-Jul-07 10:17:06

Mozhe was drinking more than 14 units a week when PG with Tristan (see her post).
I have no opinion on her stated desire to jet off right now (other than she's mad to risk horrible jetlag with toddlers), but on that level of drinking while PG:

compo Tue 17-Jul-07 10:21:26

she doesnt say when pregnant though

chocolatedot Tue 17-Jul-07 10:23:31

Agree Enid.

lljkk Tue 17-Jul-07 10:24:26

I suppose it could be a general statement, not meant to apply when she posted. But certainly applying when she concevied Tristan, one assumes. I suppose nothing could dent her fertility, though.

meowmix Tue 17-Jul-07 10:26:14

am i the only one impressed that Mozhe can handle a complex task like packing so soon after birth? would have been utterly beyond me!

Her choice, her decision, her right. If her DH was going too then I'd have big issues. It wouldn't be right for me being a worry-wort but if Mozhe is comfortable with it then thats her choice.

edam Tue 17-Jul-07 10:27:59

'one assumes'. And there is NO requirement for women to stop drinking before conception - some people may choose to but it doesn't mean anyone who doesn't is evil, fgs. Otherwise there would be a sharp drop in the birth rate, given how many babies are conceived after a drunken night out!

Don't like witch-hunts. Which is what digging up old posts and pretending they amount to heavy drinking during pregnancy is.

Meeely2 Tue 17-Jul-07 10:32:49

OK Mozhe has already left for the carribean, so this thread really has no point anymore, like we all said she wasn't after approval from us (was she gloating perhaps?)

I think my main concern was the fact that she did not appear to be overly stressed or traumatised. She wasn't posting in floods of tears tearing her hair out and then someone offered a holiday so she took it. She seems like a very well balanced well together lady to me, which makes the holiday choice even stranger.

Ah well, she'll be on a plane with two screaming kids right now, where would we rather be?

compo Tue 17-Jul-07 10:33:48

totally agree with Edam

collision Tue 17-Jul-07 10:35:05

I am shocked at this thread.

I think I am more shocked at the attitude of the OP than the actions she is taking (as we speak she is on a plane! )

ds1 was 5 weeks early, in SCBU for 2 weeks, and I can honestly say there is nowhere else I would have wanted to be than next to him. He was never in any danger but I just wanted to be with him and look at him and bond with him.

DH went to work as normal and we spent the evenings together as a family.

Even if I had had other children, an aupair and a nanny, I would never have even countenanced the thought of going abroad, to town shopping or home for dinner.

I wanted to be with my baby.

I really hope baby Tristan is OK and that he grows up to be a beautiful little boy but I think your actions are a mistake.

LieselVentouse Tue 17-Jul-07 10:38:23

To make matters worse she called him Tristan

suzywong Tue 17-Jul-07 10:39:21

OH LV!
You're terrible, Muriel.

GreengottsTheGoblinBank Tue 17-Jul-07 10:40:36

I think this thread is so, so shit.

lljkk Tue 17-Jul-07 10:44:41

I was looking for something else, Edam.
There are a lot of studies which suggest reduced fertility among those who drink alcohol while TTC. I just find Mozhe's level of fertility quite incredible.

Lizzylou Tue 17-Jul-07 10:47:25

If Mozhe is a genuine poster, then I am not shocked that she has jetted off to the "Carri farking bean", from her posts to date it is obvious that she and I have completely different parenting styles.

I hope that Mozhe gets all the R&R she feels necessary and that she doesn't regret going.

<<Unclenches buttocks feeling viruous >>

ruty Tue 17-Jul-07 10:47:32

but the number of people who get pregnant whilst hammered is quite high i would say, so not really any evidence...

Lizzylou Tue 17-Jul-07 10:48:09

"Virtuous" even

MamaMaiasaura Tue 17-Jul-07 10:52:59

<unclasps nork>

"By lljkk on Mon 16-Jul-07 16:53:17
Mozhe-Xenia are weirdly alike, and Mozhe suddenly appears on MN backing up most things Xenia says (often controversial). But while Xenia comes across as pig-ignorant sometimes, she doesn't tell us an implausible lifestory....

I'm still trying to figure out how Mozhe conceived her Tristan in the first place,
...at the age of 43
...after only few months of trying
...while still fully breastfeeding (no solids or formula yet) 7 month old twins
...very shortly after having a sterilisation reversed.

F'ing A, she ought to bottle her fertility genes and flog them to biotech companies."

Yup, have doubted Mozhe's genuiness before and this just completely highlights why i did and do. Def think this is a windup and her whole persona is made up.

Also agree with posters who said the tone of the thread by OP was to create a 'reaction'.

<clasps nork again>

lljkk Tue 17-Jul-07 10:53:04

Yes, Ruty, but do they often conceive when hammered....
. after only a few months of trying,
. when they're 43 yrs old,
. after a tubal ligation reversal
. when they normally have a relatively modest BMI -- since Mozhe recently posted about how skinny she naturally is, rarely gains more than 10 lbs in pregnancy, etc?
. & while still fully breastfeeding twins?

I mean, could your body do that? I wonder if it would be an good case study for an academic fertility journal article.

Greensleeves Tue 17-Jul-07 10:53:16

I wouldn't do what mozhe is proposing to do, not in a million years. Nor am I the nicest or most non-judgemental poster on MN, not by a very long way.

BUT the level of gleeful bullying, contempt and sheer fucking cruelty on this thread is SHOCKING. Disgusting, in fact.

StarryStarryNight Tue 17-Jul-07 10:53:24

So, Is it deemed appropriate to judge Mozhes life style, her alcohol consumption (2 small glasses of wine per day) and even the name she chose for her child?? FGS!

This is turning shittier by the minute.

I am shocked at her decision to go, but she could have all sorts of reasons not posted here, shock, trauma etc, but what is going on her now is just petty.

MamaMaiasaura Tue 17-Jul-07 10:53:59

Collission if she is a fake, baby tristan isnt real either.

edam Tue 17-Jul-07 10:54:31

Agree lljk, am slightly in awe of Mozhe's fertility! Just sounded as if you were being a bit condemnatory and suggesting she was drinking heavily when p/g when there is actually no evidence of that.

mumblechum Tue 17-Jul-07 10:55:13

As I said at the very beginning of this thread, if you haven't had a baby in scbu for weeks on end (& I've had 2 in that situ), then you have no idea what it's like and shouldn't judge.

Greensleeves Tue 17-Jul-07 10:56:00

And as for taking the piss out of the name she's given the baby - that is low.

oliveoil Tue 17-Jul-07 10:56:09

who is mozhe?

mslucy Tue 17-Jul-07 10:56:11

don't think Mozhe is real.

Read the thread last night and it's some kind of weird skit designed to wind up as many people as possible.

Lizzylou Tue 17-Jul-07 10:56:11

Mozhe (real or not) has actually jetted off now, whether or not we agree with her decision.
I don't think she would care what we think (especially little ole SAHM-me) so lets put the pitchforks away now, eh?

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 10:56:16

I like the name Tristan
I drank moderately all through my pg

so I can relate to all that

I just think the going to the caribbean is uber odd

also I dont see why people think she deserves a holiday

StarryStarryNight Tue 17-Jul-07 10:56:48

Awen, agreed, but isnt that just sad?

There are lots of sad people, posting for various sad reasons, making stories up, whether they are pregnant with eightuplets or pretending to be average Nora. It happens, and it is truly sad.

dobbysayswoof Tue 17-Jul-07 10:57:58

Skimmed most of thread. Big surprise that mozhe would ever start a thread in a flippant and provocative manner, eh?

tbh that tells us nothing about her 'real' state of mind - it's just her mn persona.

I couldn't see myself taking the decision she has taken. But the nastiness and judgmental shite in this thread is the most shocking thing about it.

HuwEdwards Tue 17-Jul-07 10:58:37

Am amazed at the extensive knowledge some people on here have of Mozhe - do you keep spreadsheets?

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 10:58:40

FWIW (bugger all) I dont think she is a troll

but I wonder if perhaps she was just thinking about going rahter than actually going

and is now reading thread dying to post but cant

MintyDixCharrington Tue 17-Jul-07 10:58:41

when did she have time to have a tubal ligation let alone a reversal, when there are only 14 months between the twins and this one???? even allowing for the early-ness of this birth, that is only 8 months between giving birth to twins, having your tubes tied, thinking "oh no, actually", having them untied, and getting pregnant.

hmmm

ruty Tue 17-Jul-07 11:00:18

her fertility, now that you've told me all that, does sound amazing if hard to believe. But i guess it is still possible. If their is the faint possiblity she isn't a troll then this thread has some very nasty bits.

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:01:09

put like that it sounds quite incredible but I guess possible

dobbysayswoof Tue 17-Jul-07 11:02:12

Mozhe's family circumstances are unusual - most of us can't relate to her - oh, she must be a troll then

YAAAAAWN

LieselVentouse Tue 17-Jul-07 11:02:35

Wasnt taking the piss out the name FGS - just taking the piss that this thread is still going on when Mohze is on her way to the Caribbean - or rather half way down the M4 in her hairy aresed truck

ruty Tue 17-Jul-07 11:02:55

WTF HAS HAPPENED TO MY SPELLING?

oliveoil Tue 17-Jul-07 11:03:13

I wouldn't leave my healthy children to go on holiday.

Only posh types do things like that, commoners keep their children with them, like mother hens.

Nannies? Pah.

Greensleeves Tue 17-Jul-07 11:03:43

Yes, you were LV.

lljkk Tue 17-Jul-07 11:04:51

I am not really sure if I care whether Mozhe is a fiction or not. Sometimes anomalies niggle at me, though, I can't leave them alone.

Maybe we should start a thread in Chat about the alter online egos and lives we'd like to have? I want to be a top physicist at CERN with 5 kids who are all musical and scientific prodigies, and a husband who runs a multi-million Euro business in Paris. Oh, and I'll have a maternity nurse, au pair and nanny, cook, maid and chauffer, too.

And in my youth I was, naturally, a top competitive athlete and singer -- but I had to choose just one main career, which was science.

My parents raised me in the wilds of Africa, where I was wet-nursed by a cheetah, and later home-educated until the age of 10. I learned to speak 4 languages simultaneously, and all my children are polyglots and gifted athletes, too (of course).

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:04:59

oo

actually teh bit I hated was taking the nanny

I HATE that

people do it here with their au pairs

I think its WANK

LieselVentouse Tue 17-Jul-07 11:06:03

I can assure you I wasnt I just find this thread frickin funny

oliveoil Tue 17-Jul-07 11:06:48

I am too much of a control freak to have a nanny

I would be peering in going 'no, she doesn't like that top and you have cut her toast into squares, she likes triangles'

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:07:38

it just seems so...lazy

ruty Tue 17-Jul-07 11:07:40

I'd have won a Palme D'or for best director and spend my time between Provence and LA. [avec nanny of course]

lljkk Tue 17-Jul-07 11:08:53

Oi! No picking on the name, I have a Tristan (sigh, i know it's now considered a chav name). It's Celtic, ancient.

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:09:16

surelyu its not chavvy

Greensleeves Tue 17-Jul-07 11:09:36

"By LieselVentouse on Tue 17-Jul-07 10:38:23
To make matters worse she called him Tristan"

Yes LV, you were! And it's horrible. A lot of this thread is horrible. I think it should be deleted.

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 11:10:08

If she is a troll then she has done an excellent job don't you think. If she isn't (I don't think she is fwiw)then she has got some pretty nasty messages to read when she gets back from holiday. Enid - whether someone "deserves" a holiday is a pretty subjective debate I would've thought. We could all argue that we deserve a holiday, but I would never say someone doesn't deserve one iyswim. Who am I to say? Agree with edam's post about the drinking. 14 units prior to finding out you're pregnant - so what!

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:10:26

oh come on greeny I thioguht that was quite funny

and I like the name tristan

LieselVentouse Tue 17-Jul-07 11:10:31

No I do I like it - Missing the point - there is no Tristan and there is no Mohze- well there is but she aint on her way to Caribbean

oliveoil Tue 17-Jul-07 11:10:31

Tristan is posh surely?

<<wonders if she is using the word posh a tad too much on this thread>>

LieselVentouse Tue 17-Jul-07 11:11:32

Calm down Greeny - I was taking the piss out of this thread - not the name

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:11:51

look, mozhe is hard to empathise with

hence level of bitchery

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 11:12:40

No Enid.

People are bitches - hence level of bitchiness.

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:13:14

no, she is deliberately hard to empathise with

and people can be bitchy

HonoriaGlossop Tue 17-Jul-07 11:13:27

exactly enid. Attention seeking and deliberately provocative - she knows exactly what she is doing. I'm absolutely 100% sure she is reading all this and loving every bit.

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 11:14:11

I find bitches particularly hard to empathise with

Greensleeves Tue 17-Jul-07 11:15:18

If you've had a very premature baby and done the time sitting in NICU unable to do anything useful, I don't see how you can find any of the nasty piss-taking on this thread funny. And if you haven't, you should have a bit of fucking respect.

As I said, I wouldn't do what mozhe is doing in a million years. But then, I would go back to work when the baby was 2 weeks old either. However there's a world of difference between disagreeing (even forcefully) with someone's choices and just being shitty and jeering for the fun of it.

Sorry if I am coming across as sanctimonious and offending people I like - but I feel strongly about this. Some of the posters who have taken the opportunity to be downright evil on this thread should be ashamed of themselves.

dobbysayswoof Tue 17-Jul-07 11:15:18

Groan
I've reported this to mn and asked for the thread to be deleted.

LieselVentouse Tue 17-Jul-07 11:15:31

Wait wait wait wait, who are the bitches on here?

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:15:31

oh dear

soem bitchery is funny though

sorry but someone who wants St Barts tips is ripe for mockery in my book, preemie baby or no preemie baby

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 11:16:41

Perhaps, but mockery imo does not extend to the particularly viscious attacks on this thread.

lljkk Tue 17-Jul-07 11:16:59

Tristan gets listed with other "chav baby names", Oliveoil. Written on websites things like "You know Wisbech is a chav town because kids there get called things like Tristan...".

There's another Tristan at my Tristan's preschool; other Tristan's mother has incredibly brown awful looking teeth.... And she comes across as .... er, uneducated is nicest I can put it. It hasn't instilled me with confidence in the choice of my son's name.

IF mozhe is a fraud, I imagine she could just be a lonely mum or even wanna-be mum who wished she had the jetset lifestyle, alpha career position, big happy family, etc. I'm not convinced by her story, but would be willing to be sympathic about the reasons why someone came up with a false story like this.

Greensleeves Tue 17-Jul-07 11:18:14

Sorry Enid, I don't agree. I am shaking with bloody anger here, I think I had better leave this alone now.

dobbysayswoof Tue 17-Jul-07 11:18:25

I agree Enid, but it's not just mockery. People are being cruel (not you btw).

Agree with Greeny too. Mozhe won't care, I suspect, but IMO this sort of stuff shows mn in a really bad light. It's an eye-opener for me - some mners have shown their true colours here. Just nasty

LieselVentouse Tue 17-Jul-07 11:19:02

I havent witnessed any viscious attacks on this thread - its just MN stuff

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 11:19:09

LV, have you read the thread - and you didn't notice any bitchiness?

In fact perhaps you're right, bitchiness is too light handed a word to describe some of the nonsense that has been spouted.

LieselVentouse Tue 17-Jul-07 11:20:11

By who? Sorry I have missed that. I have noticed a lot of Xenia being mentioned here and I do like Xenia so thats uncalled for.

ggglimpopo Tue 17-Jul-07 11:20:22

Yes, Ruty, but do they often conceive when hammered....
. after only a few months of trying,
. when they're 43 yrs old,
. after a tubal ligation reversal
. when they normally have a relatively modest BMI -- since Mozhe recently posted about how skinny she naturally is, rarely gains more than 10 lbs in pregnancy, etc?
. & while still fully breastfeeding twins?

I mean, could your body do that? I wonder if it would be an good case study for an academic fertility journal article.



I am 43. I got pregnant days after having a mirena removed. I was very unwell and was extremely underweight at the time....but I am sure no one here would judge me or speculate on my alcohol intake.

Just because one does not agree with Mohze does not give anyone the right to pull her apart.

Just like Anna's thread - this is pack bullying at its worst.

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 11:20:58

Whatever.

Its there, i'm not repeating it for you.

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:21:23

actually to be fair I havent read the middle

LieselVentouse Tue 17-Jul-07 11:22:38

To be fair I havent seen any personal viscious attacks on anyone - just a couple of pokes at the OP which I dont think is uncalled for given her two fingers attitude

ruty Tue 17-Jul-07 11:22:45

i was agreeing with you ggg just in case anyone thought not!

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:23:40

ok have skim read

cant see antyhing shcoking tbhj

ok the digging over old posts is a bit low

dobbysayswoof Tue 17-Jul-07 11:25:09

OK couple of random examples from depths of thread:

"if she were real - which I doubt very much - she would be a bloody hard woman."

"So are you saying that every pregnant woman NEEDS a weeks holidays after giving birth just because they carried a baby for 9 months!
Except it was barely 5 in this instance."


I shouldn't be repeating these choice comments but this is what I'm talking about. Below the belt.

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 11:25:56

Enid people on here have said she doesn't deserve children (a horrible thing to say to anyone)and that they hope she has a terrible time when she's away and that they hope she can live with herself if anything happens to the lo. Is that bitchy enough? I think so.

Aitch Tue 17-Jul-07 11:26:25

how does she have a two fingers attitude? why are the things that some people post taken as a personal affront by others? we don't all live the same lives or have the same experiences. poor mozhe, i hope this is deleted.
if she's a troll she doesn't need this here and if she isn't (which is my feeling) then she really doesn't need this here. the woman has just had a baby, has said that she is shocked by it and by how much the baby sleeps and that she hasn't formed a bond yet. i can understand why, especially given what mrsm, crunchie et al have said. this is the pits, really.

lljkk Tue 17-Jul-07 11:26:34

Is Mozhe actually upset about her baby being in SCBU? Not having a go at her, I just haven't noticed her post anything like "I'm very worried", "It was so scarey him being born so early", "It was touch and go whether he would breathe on his own", etc.

I find that lack of worry quite peculiar (another anomaly). Maybe she just doesn't want to share worries with MN -- i could understand wanting to keep them private. Otherwise, I wish I could be so resolutely upbeat about my DC and my life, and I don't have half as many loved ones to worry about.

She has apologised for upsetting other people, but has she ever suggested that she was in the slightest bit upset by anything else anybody else wrote? I thought Mozhe was maybe very thick-skinned, like Xenia, neither ever loses their cool in an discussion. Admirable, truly.

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 11:27:00

A lot of martyrs on this thread.

Walnutshell Tue 17-Jul-07 11:27:59

If it's a genuine post written by a relatively sane person I can only feel a total lack of understanding and a fair dollop of disgust at the tone of the post in that context - very distasteful.

If it's a genuine post written by someone in a state of denial, I feel very sad for mozhe and cringe at some of the posts - many are well expressed and just represent differing viewpoints.

If it's a hoax, part of me is quietly impressed...

Aitch Tue 17-Jul-07 11:28:44

her twins were preemie as well, i think, ljkk. not as young as 27, perhaps 32? so she has some experience. hell, if she wishes to go completely dissociative about the new baby until she knows he's okay then it's up to her.

ruty Tue 17-Jul-07 11:28:59

I am concerned for her a bit, wonder if she has PND, really don't know. It is bizarre.

LieselVentouse Tue 17-Jul-07 11:29:05

Its more the "well my babys in SCBU but anybody got any tips about St Barts"

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:29:17

oh well, sorry

I do think it is blodoy hard to go away to the caribbean for a week when your baby is in sbcu and there isnt a single mother on this thread who would do it - even the ones who have said they would have been tempted wouldnt actually have gone on holiday

and I dont think anyone DESERVeS a holiday away from their baby after having a baby either

oliveoil Tue 17-Jul-07 11:29:23

By Greensleeves on Tue 17-Jul-07 11:18:14
Sorry Enid, I don't agree. I am shaking with bloody anger here, I think I had better leave this alone now.

oh come on, get a grip folks

Just found this thread and I'm . I find this degree of bullying quite scary. And no, I wouldn't take the same decision as Mozhe, couldn't even contemplate to do something like that really.
Mrsmalaprop, excellent and enlighting post.

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 11:30:09

A lot of women might not want to expose their vulnerability - even on an anonymous chat forum. In psychiatry it is common to deal with some pretty shocking things and sometimes the best way to deal with things is to put on a mask (her persona is front stage, who knows what goes on back stage).

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:30:18

lololololol @ martyrs

some of you live in cloud cuckoo land

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 11:30:19

Did you want her to ask MN for tips on her preemie?

I think she has that side of things covered.

MamaMaiasaura Tue 17-Jul-07 11:30:57

fer fucks sake. Just cos you dont believe what someone is saying it doesnt make you a bully. It just means I am not gullible.

dobbysayswoof Tue 17-Jul-07 11:31:51

Hear hear Aitch.

Also, she mentioned on her birth announcement thread that the attitude of medical staff is different in France - they discourage bonding in case things go wrong. That is going to have an effect on her. And I HATE this assumption that she is not worried about her ds just becuase she doesn't come on mn saying "I am worried " - we have no insight into her mental state...

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:32:21

Saint enid

I would not have gone on holiday to the caribbean while my baby was in SBCU

that was the easiest halo I have ever earned

mumblechum Tue 17-Jul-07 11:32:46

blimey, has this thread stillnot been deleted

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 11:32:58

Yes Awen, when i read your comment re Mozhes DH shagging the au pair, you know what i thought.....
Bless that lovely Awen, how un-gullible and enlightened she is. An inspiration to us all......

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 11:33:21

Hi Awen (waves) Not sure if I believe all of it but pretty shocked at the vitriol (and as you know, I am not easily shocked).

MamaMaiasaura Tue 17-Jul-07 11:33:47

jeremy - YAWN. If I thought for one second she was real I wouldnt have made the flippant comment. It isnt real, true etc etc etc

oliveoil Tue 17-Jul-07 11:34:19

I don't think they would have let me in St Barts as iirc I was wafting around in a daze and crying for weeks after both my births

it would harm the tourist trade imo

dobbysayswoof Tue 17-Jul-07 11:34:23

ladylush I agree with you re her persona.

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 11:34:32

Start a new thread..........Saints and Bitches roll up

dobbysayswoof Tue 17-Jul-07 11:35:27

Yeah Awen but you don't actually KNOW that she's not real. Pretty shit comment of yours if she is an actual person, eh?

Enid Tue 17-Jul-07 11:36:20

oh none of you are real

that is the underlying tension that pervades mumsent

you donnt KNOW for sure

pretty edgy, eh

MamaMaiasaura Tue 17-Jul-07 11:36:49

ladylush - I really really dont believe it is real. Pretty mich every thread she has been on it jkust hasnt felt genuine. I have avoided the birth announcement thread and this one drew me in [shamed face]

I understand people want to rally and say we are all mean and nasty for not believing her. I guess because it is really and shocking if someone has gone to this trouble. I personally think the whole persona is fake.

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 11:36:49

Well of course you are going to persist with this balls that shes not real, how else could you possibly get away with your crass comments.

meandmyflyingmachine Tue 17-Jul-07 11:37:09

Blimey.

How horrible.

What a horrible, horrible thread.

Can't decide whether the righteous indignation is more or less palatable than the clever-clever bullying of Anna on the other thread.

Yuck.

MamaMaiasaura Tue 17-Jul-07 11:37:37

LOL End.. are you a hairy arsed trucker then

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 11:37:55

If she isn't real she certainly knows a lot about psychiatry.

MamaMaiasaura Tue 17-Jul-07 11:38:43

jeremy - pretty sure that one re the au pair was the only really crass comment I made. Anyhow i dont give a feck cos it isnt real.

MamaMaiasaura Tue 17-Jul-07 11:39:16

ladylush - we had a steve posing on here before. He was a psychiatrist.

dobbysayswoof Tue 17-Jul-07 11:39:41

Edgy?
<confused>

Aitch Tue 17-Jul-07 11:40:02

what happened to anna, then? i like that we have bonkersly different people on MN. we don't all get ocado deliveries and veg boxes, you know.

MamaMaiasaura Tue 17-Jul-07 11:40:35

channel 5 NOW - geniune premmy baby/mummys talking about bonding etc.

dobbysayswoof Tue 17-Jul-07 11:40:42

Oh MNHQ please delete it! Gwan!
I can't get away from it otherwise
I am trapped

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 11:40:50

You dont give a feck, she's not real...yes yes yes, we know.

Funny thing is, you're still discussing it.

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 11:41:20

Really Awen - missed him. What a shame.

MamaMaiasaura Tue 17-Jul-07 11:41:30

true.. I really should get off this thread cos it is pointless really

LoveAngel Tue 17-Jul-07 11:42:11

Agree with everything Awen says

*Runs off clutching nork and cackling*

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 11:42:15

dobbysayswoof - you make me laugh

MamaMaiasaura Tue 17-Jul-07 11:42:24

funny how we keep clashing JV ..

PMSL

MamaMaiasaura Tue 17-Jul-07 11:43:05

<chases LoveAngel to the norty room>

Aitch Tue 17-Jul-07 11:43:05

what did the new preemie mum say to the nice presenter lady and the camera crew, awen? that it's perfectly possible to bond through a plastic box? was a few mins on channel five enough to probe the dark recesses of the human mind?

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 11:43:11

Do we?
Other than this thread?

aitch, I think she said she was going on holiday (anna I mean)

dobbysayswoof Tue 17-Jul-07 11:44:01

at the "reality" of channel five discussions

MamaMaiasaura Tue 17-Jul-07 11:44:01

was so brief. It asaid about the difficulty of bonding just in case something bad happened and about the level of support for parent in this situation is not adequate. Then got distracted by mumsnet

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 11:44:27

Ahem......though we are on opposing sides on this thread, have to say Awen is very nice really and has been a great support to me during a difficult time. I'm just lucky she thinks I exist

Meeely2 Tue 17-Jul-07 11:44:58

do you think you lot will ever get bored of discussing this womans life choices?!

lets start a new thread that has some relevence.....

I've never doubted for a second that Mozhe is real tbh.

I am just appalled at her decision and worse yet, attitude and there is no way I could possibly say, oh dear you go off on your lovely holiday to the Carribbean and here how about these lovely flip flops to take?

While her 27 week old preemie is in an incubator in NICU!

FGS people

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 11:50:07

".....While her 27 week old preemie is in an incubator in NICU!"

Yes KM, being very well taken care of, unfortunately, the wellbeing and health of such a tiny baby is in the hands of the medical staff, NOT Mozhe.

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 11:51:38

And the dh lets not forget.

Aitch Tue 17-Jul-07 11:52:37

perhaps she just feels utterly helpless, kerry, and wants to cuddle her twins a lot?

chopchopbusybusy Tue 17-Jul-07 11:54:07

"I don't think they would have let me in St Barts as iirc I was wafting around in a daze and crying for weeks after both my births"

PMSL oliveoil

I made DH drive home from the hospital at 15MPH as I was irrationally afraid of everything (he always drives within speed limit anyway, so zero foundation for fear)

The thought of hurtling through the air (even if in first class) would have deffo tipped me over the edge.

As for hanging onto to the back of a speedboat standing on a bit of plastic <<with soaking wet maternity pad swollen to pillow sized proportions>>...

I strongly suspect Mohze is not real...

But if she is, she's already gone.

There is an appalling level of disattachment in that statement Jeremy.

Are you implying that anytime a child is sick you should leave them in the care of professionals and jet off to the sun for a week of waterskiing? I mean, why not?

Right?

Aitch - pretty hard to cuddle twins on waterskiis.

Having done it myself I would know. Waterskiid that is.

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 11:55:41



Yes KM, that is exactly what i am saying.

Nice.

Not going to comment on Mozhe who I had never heard of until today, but just wanted to say I should think this is the longest ever thread to be found in the travel longhaul section!

Oh and the thought of opening my legs wide enough to water ski so soon after giving birth makes my eyes water.

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 11:58:03

Sarcasm, you numpty.

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 11:58:38

Mine too. Envy her pelvic floor I must say.

Meeely2 Tue 17-Jul-07 11:58:43

clearly not

And something that hasn't, I believe, been pointed out is what this is saying to her other children.

Oh look Tristan is sick in hospital but we're going off on holiday. What are her other kids going to think? That if THEY get sick or are in hospital mommy won't be there for them!

That's some fucked up shit.

No doubt.

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 11:59:06

I went on a trampoline 6 weeks after having ds and wet myself.

Tiggiwinkle Tue 17-Jul-07 11:59:48

Have not read all this thread, but I cannot believe this poster is for real-please tell me she is not!
Having had a prem and very ill baby, I know what it feels like to go home at night and leave him in hospital, let alone hundreds of miles away on holiday fgs! I really cannot believe anyone in their right mind would be capable of it.

DG -

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 12:00:00

KM - are you diagnosed as being mentally unstable?

Ladylush - won't be a problem if she's in the water - except there are a lot of sharks round that neck of the woods. Would seroiusly worry about blood.

Jeremy !!!

Meeely2 Tue 17-Jul-07 12:01:33

BORED NOW

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 12:01:44

I'm just making some wild leaps and assumptions there KM - see we can all do it, thing is it does not add upp to a valid argument does it?

Speccy Tue 17-Jul-07 12:01:54

Tiggi - no, it's ok - she's not real .

Jeremy -

Hum. Not sure how to respond to that in all honesty.

Not certain how you extrapolate that from anything in my posts.

And mildly amused that you must use that as a form of attack.

Meeely2 Tue 17-Jul-07 12:03:30

children children, calm down

coddy Tue 17-Jul-07 12:03:48

her name was lola
she wass a show girl

she had flowers in her hair

and legs right up to there

coddy Tue 17-Jul-07 12:04:41

she danced meringue adn did hte cha cha

JeremyVile Tue 17-Jul-07 12:05:03

See my last post KM.

I have no idea if you are mentally unstable or not, just as you have no idea how Mozhe is explaining the situation to her dcs, it helps no one and is a piss poor argument when we have to start making wild assumptions.

eleusis Tue 17-Jul-07 12:05:12

It is saying to her other children:

There are two parents in this family. I have looked after Tristan whilst Daddy was working. And now Daddy is looking after Tristan while I spend time with the twins. And when we get back, you can go have lovely time with Daddy while I look after Tristan.

There is clearly an equal partnership in the Mozhe household. A concepty which is sadly absent from the mind of many of the posters here.

Anyone bothered about the two weeks Mr. Mozhe wasn't there? Nope. Didn't think so. These attitudes are Victorian.

Speccy Tue 17-Jul-07 12:06:43

lol at cod dancing the Meringue!

Much more than the Merengue I'm sure.

ladylush Tue 17-Jul-07 12:06:47

Km there's a lot of sharks around here too I still wouldn't want to wet myself on water skis