How can I get ex to see the dc`s point of view without him saying I put words into their mouths?

[SparklePrincess]

Last time the dc stayed with their dad my eldest asked me on the phone when they were coming home. My answer was "probably in the morning". She asked if she could come back that night & I said to ask her dad, to which she replied "I cant, im scared to" sad

Today she asked if theyre going to dads this weekend, & if so what time they would be coming back. I said "probably sunday evening" & she said she hoped it would be in the morning instead. My little one said "I dont want to go to dads" sad

How can he be made to accept what the children are saying & take their feelings into account? At the moment anything they say he will just assume is words ive put into their mouths, which simply isnt true.

Im happy for him to have generous time with the dc as long as they are happy to go. I think they need to start off with one overnight stay, then build up to full weekends & eventually a week or more during the holidays once the dc are ready & happy to do so. He seems to want to start off with more than the dc are happy to do then reduce if he thinks its not working out. (In other words when he`s bored with them hmm)

Unfortunately Cafcass dont get involved unless there are court proceedings in place. Does anyone know of anything else similar where they speak for the child?

[lostdad]

I'd recommend mediation for this.

If you're already working together (which by the sounds of things you are), don't involve the courts - build on the cooperation you obviously already have.

[SparklePrincess]

We are going to Mediation & its not helping really helping with this issue.

Dont know where you get the idea we are working together & cooperating with each other from. Unfortunately it couldnt be further from the truth. My ex finds it impossible to communicate & we have no conversations about kids etc outside of mediation. My problem is that ex is only interested in himself, what he wants, & what he hopes to gain from using the children (ie reduced maintenance) their wellbeing isnt his top priority at all, thats why im keen for solutions because the last thing I want to do is drag the dc through a court case.

So can anyone advise on how to get through to a selfish person who refuses to see whats in the best interests of the dc & cant see past his (misplaced) hatred for me?

[glitterfairy]

You cant sparkle! Sorry that is absolutely my experience.

I wonder though whether relate would help. they do family counseling and would probably see you as a family together.

What makes the difference is the kids feeling safe enough to say their piece with support there from a trained person. Then that person can talk to your x and not you.

Whatever you say wont work in this instance and believe me try this and not the courts.

[SparklePrincess]

We tried Relate, & are now having Mediation through them as well. (though to be honest our Mediator is pretty cr@p) Will look on their website & see if they do family counselling anywhere locally.

[SparklePrincess]

Cant find anywhere remotely local that do family counselling. Nearest is about 70 miles away so is a non starter with having 2 children to look after.

[glitterfairy]

Ring your local one and state your problem and then ask them. I went without X to be honest as he was violent and relate wont see him but only got a place by ringing as they didnt advertise the service.

The other one is the family counseling a quick search revealed this www.aft.org.uk/

The children should definitely make their opinions clear in safety and with someone else there.

[glitterfairy]

Also why is your counselor crap? Just out of interest and if you dont want to answer please dont!

[SparklePrincess]

Thanks glitterfairy, ill look into that.

Counseller is a bit senile I think & seems to find it hard to recall the previous session. Also, being a man seems to find it difficult to see the dcs or my point of view. He seems to allow H to get away with far too much, yet pulls me up when I get pissed off about Hs constant lying.

I seem to be stuck between a rock & a hard place with this one. If I stop going H will say I refused to Mediate & it will look bad on me should we go to court.

Weve sort of agreed a financial settlement. Its a bit lower than id get if we took the legal route, but only 5-10% lower, so not worth dragging dc through courts for.

Fingers crossed H starts behaving like a human being & putting the dc`s needs first so we can get this whole mess over with.

[SparklePrincess]

Just looked at that website. CAMHS actually mentioned the possibility of refering us for Family Therapy when we saw them a few months ago, (one of the dc has ADHD) but didnt actually do it for some reason. I might give them a call to see if they can refer us, or speak to the GP. GP has already referred me for counselling to help he through this hard time, but not got an appointment as yet.

[Judy1234]

I don't think our aim in life is to make children happy actually. Unless he's physically abusing them the fact they may not like being with him is neither here nor there. He's their father.

But it depends on the age. If they are 13 or 14 then they get more of a choice.

[SparklePrincess]

They are only 7 & 8, but the 7 year old has ADHD.

[quint]

Really Xenia - so you think that the children should be miserable - that's nice!

I don;t think that SP is saying that she doesn't want the children to see their dad, just build up the time gradually surely so that they all benefit from it and enjoy a healthy relationship rather than being forced to go

[SparklePrincess]

Exactly quint.

[Lovesdogsandcats]

Sounds like you are taking his views into account too much. I did the same and you get no thanks for it.

make it easy and simple- if the kids want to come home in the morning, they do so. Sod what he thinks, they are what matters. he sounds like a selfish dickhead and he would not want to believe that the kids might not want to see him so he blames you for stopping them/interfering/putting words into their mouth.

My son was the same, ringing me up scared to tell his dad he wanted to come home. So I did it for him..I rang his dad and said I was coming to get him.

CAHMS are brill, try and get to see them.

Don't worry about exh trying to twist things. Courts are not stupid, don't worry about what he might twist in the future. You and your kids now the truth and thats all that matters.

[SparklePrincess]

Unfortunately H refuses to tell me his address & apparently I have no right to it, so I cant just go & pick them up. Stupid @rse is probably scared ill go round & give his tart a bit of a smack.

[Lovesdogsandcats]

well then it really is quite simple- he tells you his address, or he takes you to court for proper defined access where you will then end up with his address. Of course you need his address. If the kids want to come home early and he refuses, you can then go and get them.

What a tosser. He is taking the piss.

[onebatmother]

Absolutely agree with LDAC, sparkle - you can't have an informal 'friendly' arrangement if he won't tell you his address. That sounds a bit scary tbh and I would not let them go unless you are allowed to drop them off and pick them up when necessary.

wrt the kids and what they want - I think that LDAC's right there too. A basic arrangement that they stay Saturday night, then it's up to them whether they stay longer. Up to him to make it attractive.

But have you asked them why they don't want to stay? I would probe a bit further, I think, and make sure that he wasn't being unkind to them, or bad-mouthing you or worse.

[glitterfairy]

I totally agree with LDAC and you onebat but I think it is easy to also give kids the impression that you like them coming home to you so you need to make sure you are not inadvertently swaying their opinions.

I wouldnt let my kids go anywhere that I couldnt collect them from and have the address.

I am afraid I am getting the impression that court is not so far away on this one.

Court is a nightmare. I went through two years of it but at least there is no arguing once it is done. Well I say that but my X kept threatening me with court even when the final pronouncement had been made and I stuck to the letter of the order.

[Tippychick]

You need the address, of course you do. What nonsense he's talking and why on earth shouldn't you have it?
poor you, I do feel for you.

[littlewoman]

It's clear there are some unresolved and very negative feelings at the back of this issue, and the children are caught in a power struggle between you and your xh. That doesn't mean that their feelings aren't legitimate - they shouldn't be somewhere where they are unhappy. But he's never going to let you win on this one. He clearly doesn't value their feelings above his own, and his feelings are entirely negative towards you. You can't appeal to his better nature, because giving in to you means 'losing' in his eyes. This requires outside intervention IMO.

And I do hope you are not paying to see this patriarchal, misogynistic dinosaur of a counsellor. FFS, get him swapped if you can. That's like having two ex-husbands on your back.

[SparklePrincess]

I am trying so hard to avoid courts for the sake of the dc. The youngest has special needs & the eldest is incredibly sensitive & would be totally destroyed by the whole thing.

I do have a contact phone number for the house they stay, just not the address. I know I have a moral right to the address, but apparently not a legal one. Its ridiculous & petty not to give me the address as its highly unlikely id ever go there unless it was an emergency because its quite some distance away from where I live.

[onebatmother]

But sparkle, the whole point is that you have chosen, for good reasons, not to do things "legally" iyswim. If he agrees that the best thing is to keep it out of the courts (which is as you've pointed out, in his interests financially) then surely he must also flexibility in other areas.

I'm horrified, btw, that parents don't have a legal right to know where their children are staying. Horrified. Is that absolutely, certainly the case?

[SparklePrincess]

Yes unfortunately it is the case. Ive just been on the phone to another legal person this morning checking it out. They agreed it wasnt morally right & any decent human being would give the address as a matter of course, but thats H for you. At least I have the phone number, & should there be an emergency the address can be traced through the police.

H isnt bothered if we do things the legal way or not. He is in the position where he can always earn extra money (& im not) & he doesnt care about the childrens feelings, so its not an issue for him.

Fortunately for the dc one of us is being a grown up & putting our own feelings to the side for their sake. I just wish he would do it too.

[onebatmother]

Bloody hell, sparkle. Really sorry you're going through this.

Would he ever agree to just Sat night, then kids decide?

Would he see that it's not in his interest to force them to stay if they don't want to?

Or is he completely unreasonable?

If the latter then perhaps it might be worth really researching what would happen if it went to court; and whether it really would be more damaging to your brave DCs than lots of back and forth and bad-mouthing for a year, until he behaves so unreasonably that you're forced to go through the court anyway?

He doesn't sound like a very trustworthy man.

[SparklePrincess]

Based on his recent behaviour he is completely & utterly unreasonable im afraid. Describes the last 10 years as a complete waste of his time. I could never say that, we have two beautiful dc together.

He seems to think we should try the longest possible amount of overnight stays & then alter things if it doesnt work out. (In which case finances would of already been decided based on the unrealistic cr@p hes spouting) Im more inclined to go with how the dc are feeling & build up as & when they are comfortable & happy to do so.<br /> <br /> If we went to court he probably wouldnt even get as much access as im proposing. With his selfish behaviour hell end up with supervised contact if hes not careful. It is a dilemma knowing what to do for the best where the dc are concerned. If I had continued with the Divorce proceedings back in January when I first filed (but withdrew because I wasnt in the right frame of mind to cope with anymore at that time) we may or we may not be further forward. Perhaps if I had got a decent solicitor instead of those crooks with £s in their eyes. Lots of what ifs. Always hard to know what to do for the best.

The only thing im certain of is that I want to avoid any form of court or legal proceedings until he literally forces my hand & I have no choice. In some ways its almost like he wants to do things in that way, then he can use it as his excuse for not bothering with the dc & pretend its all my doing.

The one small scrap of hope I have is that he does seem to take on board whatever his solicitor tells him. Im hoping that she`s given him a realistic view of a likely court battle & encouraged him to drop the unrealistic expectations.

All will be revealed this evening.