Contact with 3 and a half year old

[nancysgirl]

I wonder if anyone can let me know what they, or more importantly, the courts think is a reasonable amount of contact for my x2b to have with our dd who is 3 and a half? He has been sobbing on the phone to me today (only pretend!) because he thinks I an denying him time with her. He currently sees her after nursey for 2 hours on a wed and on sat from 10 til 3. He has not had her overnight as he will not disclose where he is living but has said that he wants to have her overnight 2 nights a week in the future. Is apparently going to give me the address but will not let me go to where he lives. I suspect he is with someone else, hence the secrecy and do not want dd in a situation with another woman until it is a stable 1, and when he is honest about it. Does anyone have an idea of what will be deemed reasonable?
Thanks

[mandajane2004]

My friend gets to see his daughter every other weekend from friday night til sunday night.I think that the court will look at his situation and decide from there.My exp wants to see our son on his own..cant understand why i wont let him considering that again I dont know where he lives.Im sorry i cant help you any more than that Im sure there will be some mnetters who will xxxx

[aloha]

Probably every other weekend. I think it is totally unreasonable not to tell you where he is living, and yes, he is probably living with someone else, and before a court agrees overnight contact I am certain he will be expected to at the very least provide his address! However, if you can avoid going to court, then do, as it is very expensive, takes a long time and is acrimonious. Have you told him that you cannot possibly have your child away overnight without knowing where she is? What does he say to that?

[nancysgirl]

Aloha, yes I have told him that but he just says that as he is her father I should trust him that she is being looked after properly (a bit of a joke given his lying, deceitful behaviour). He also says that as I don't have to tell him where I am taking DD if I am going away then why should he have to tell me? He won't accept that as she lives with me then I am the 1 who makes the decisions-he just wants to see her on demand.
I know he is just being difficult because that is his nature-he has never accepted that he has responsibilities to anyone other than himself and has always wanted to do as he pleases. He is being stubborn because he can and it is the only thing left to be stubborn about-other than money but that's another story! He is doing this to be manipulative. The crying is just SO ridiculoius as he has been such a crap dad-always out, never spending time with dd, now it seems she is the most important thing in the world to him. Too little too late IMO!
Does it not have to be decided by the courts then? Can we decide for ourselves? HE will never go for a whole w/end as he has sporting commitments that he will not give up. I do not think it is at all in dd's interests to be going to his 2 nights a week when she is so young, plus she will end up being late to bed and up early just to get her to and from nursery with very little quality time in between. Oh what a nightmare!

[aloha]

Yes, you can indeed decide it between yourselves, and if you can, I would recommend it. However, it is so unreasonable not to tell you where she is, that I think you are perfectly justified in refusing overnights until he does. It's in his hands then. What does your dd want? I know she's young, but I presume she loves her dad (regardless of his failings) - does she want to stay overnight with him? If so, then I think this should happen - but ONLY if you know where she is and can contact her. How about overnight every second Saturday - but only when you know where she is.

[nancysgirl]

I think she would be happy to stay o/night with hin although she is a real Mummy's girl! Has always spent most of her time with me and has given him a really hard time before when I've been away or something.

My solicitor has suggested to him that I should be able to go and "check out" where she will be going but he is adamant that I cannot go. As he is such a lying b***d and completely untrustworthy I really don't feel happy letting dd go to somewhere that I haven't seen but do you think this is reasonable? What would you do?

[SofiaAmes]

I think that it is perfectly reasonable that you should want to know the address where he is living. Suppose there was an emergency and you needed to get in touch with him? It amazes me that my dh's ex has always been totally uninterested in where we live and has happily bundled their kids off to our house without ever asking for our address. However, I personally think it's over the top to insist on an inspection of the house. I would have found it offensive (and my dh would certainly have refused point blank) had his ex insisted on an inspection of our house (unlikely of course, since as I mentioned above she didn't even know where it was). I also think it would be appropriate to tell your ex where you are going if you go away somewhere for the night. We would certainly make a point of letting dh's ex know if we were planning to take the kids away and TRY to give her the information about where we were going.
Also, I think that you should let your ex decide how he wants to present new girlfriends to your dd. I think you are making stress and trouble for yourself if you get involved in assessing how stable his relationships are and whether he should be introducing them to your dd.

[Chocol8]

Hi Nancysgirl, I have been in this situation myself - and my xh left 6 years ago (today actually!).

When xh left and later on shacked up with new g/f, he wouldn't give me the address but expected me to let him have ds overnight. This arrangement had only ever happened once before at his old house and I was stressed about it then. My ds came back dirty and stinking of smoke and very tired. He was hyper as he had been given junk food and so I didn't want him going back. I spoke to my friend who is a social worker and she said that even when they take a child away from the parents and put them into a foster home for the night, the parents are offered a visit to the foster home to give them peace of mind. I have never visited his new house as ds has not stayed over and it is quite far away, but have made it clear that if they were to have him stay, I would want to see the room he was staying in - end of.

IMO you definitely need to see where she will be, but having been through this, I feel very strongly about it. Ds only sees his dad every other week for a few hours on a Saturday but that was ds's choice as he told his dad and me that he wants to see us the same amount of time (even though he lives with me) because he loves us both the same.

To answer your question, every other weekend on either a Saturday or Sunday day time or overnight if you know the address. Let us know how you get on. x

[aloha]

I tend to agree with Sofia, that unless you really have good reason to suspect he lives somewhere totally unsuitable - eg a brothel or squat (!) - then an inspection may be OTT, but of course you should know an address and be able to drop off and/or pick up if you want. I don't think vetting girlfriends is a good idea either, unless you have pretty solid grounds for worry.
I think that unless you really believe he would neglect your dd or put her at risk, then you have to allow him a private life, though I totally understand your feelings and would probably feel the same in your shoes.

[nancysgirl]

I think some of you have probably misunderstood my worries-perhaps I have not explained properly!
I do not wish to vet his girlfriend or inspect his accommodation to ensure that DD has her own ensuite bathroom plus matching barbie accessories!! I just think I am entitled to know whether she will have her own bed/bedroom adecuate toys etc and that she is not sharing a house with a group of single men/students as is likely.
If, on the other hand he is setting up house with another woman I feel entitled to know this so that I can help DD deal with this as it will be confusing for her. Imagine her talking about Daddy's friend and me not even knowing he has 1, let alone 1 who has a role in my dd's life?! My dd is a selective mute and any change in her life has to be dealt with very carefully as she can be very anxious. X2b has proved to be a bully, manipulative, controlling and a compulsive liar. He has in the past told me lies about where he was taking her, when we were still together and he took her to see the woman he was having an affair with while telling me thay were going to his parents. He has told her not to speak to me about what they do together and he has repeatedly ignored contact times-bringing her back when he feels like it etc.
I just want to know the truth so that she and I can deal with it. The only way to know the truth is to see for myself as he is INCAPABLE of telling the truth and will lie incessantly to get his own way. If you have never had any dealings with a person like this you willnot understand what I am on about. You would not believe the things he has said and done in the past. He would stop at nothing. Please don't hink of me as some sad lonely woman who cannot let go-I am glad to be away from him. I just do not trust a word that he says.

[Caligula]

How very abusive of him to tell your daughter not to tell you what she's been doing when she's with him. How terribly confusing for the poor child. I don't think a man like that should be in charge of a child, I really think that courts should take this sort of manipulation into account when considering contact. Your poor daughter. Talk about using her as a weapon. How can anyone tell a 3 and a half year old to keep secrets from her mother? What a truly vile man your xp must be.

[nancysgirl]

Exactly!! This is the man who had to leave our family holiday abroad claiming that his dad had had a stroke and was in a coma when in fact he (x2b's father) was at home all the time in perfectly good health!!!!! X even gave details of what tests FIL had had, what the doctors had said, how MIL was not coping AND took dd to "see him in hospital". ALL LIES!! Kept it up 4 nearly 2 weeks until I called MIL to see how he was and found out the truth. Would you trust him with your child?

[Caligula]

Wouldn't trust him with me second hand car, let alone my child!

[mummyloves]

nancysgirl, I'm CATing you now if you want to talk. I think I'm in the same situation as you and I'm FAR down the line with regards to court and legal advice etc! I also think my exdp is the dame type as yours. If you want to talk I'm up.

[nancysgirl]

Thanks mummyloves!
Haven't received your details yet but am really grateful for your offer and will CAT you when I get email. Thanks again. So relieved to think there is someone who might understand.

[tammybear]

hi nancy, he doesnt sound like he can be trusted at all, and can understand very much your concerns. would you be happy to allow your dd to stay over if you knew where he lived? as you are her main carer, you have the right to know where she is at all times.

my dd is 2 in December, sees her father probably once a month, if that. he lives 3 hours away so fair enough he cant always come and see her much, but i know what hes like. he wants me to allow him to have dd at his, but i want dd to be comfortable with him and seeing him once a month isnt going to help. so ive decided that im going to wait until she can decide for herself.