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Contact after not seeing daughter for most of her young life

19 replies

daisystone · 15/08/2014 13:38

I have previoulsy posted in relationships and divorce sections but was told about this area and so here goes...

I am not going to give all details as we will be here all day, but my three year old daughter has not seen her father since she was 1 years old. During this time I have tried to contact him to establish contact. He did not even pass on where he was living and I only found this out on divorce papers.

We have been communicating through solicitors for the last few months regarding his wish to have contact with his estranged child. He is saying that I have prevented him from seeing her. There is no truth to this statement and I can only think that he is saying it to paint me in a bad light and to make out that he has not intentionally neglected and abandoned his child. He has always known where we were and I have intermittently tried calling him to disuss matters but he has not answered or returned calls. He has not acknowledged birthdays or Christmases. I only found out where he was living via the divorce papers and it turns out he is only a few miles away so distance was never a problem for him.

After me trying to speak to him and going to his house where I was met by a new partner (all very civil - shook hands etc) we spoke on phone and he said he WOULD like to see daughter. I said we needed ground rules, to build trust etc. Asked him where he had been and how he could account for his behaviour. He refused to discuss it. Some heated emails between us and the police turn up on my doorstep with a harassment warning. Basically if I contact him or his partner they COULD in theory prosecute me. Spoke to a sergeant about this at length who said it was a ridiculous thing for him to have done but that it is his right to do it and that people can file them for the most basic things. Obviously I was very shocked about this. I think he is worried about new partner hearing bad things and would like to keep us apart as much as possible. He has no doubt told her that he has tried to see his child and that i will not let him.

Anyway, we have had mediation sessions in the diary for a month or so now. He has been to his assessment session alone and so have I. We were due to start joint mediation in September. A few days ago I received court papers which require me to attend magistrates court a few days before we were due to start our mediation. I am confused and thrown by this. My solicitor says that he may have done this because he does not want to sit at a table with me and talk about the past/his behaviour etc. He thinks he may be intimidated .

My question really is, how will a court take this? The man has not been part of his daughters life since she was one and she has no memory of him. She is four in December and she has never had a father. They surely cannot order that she sees him without mediation between parents? He has effectively abandoned her. He has only paid money since the CSA finally caught up with him at his new address and clearly he has to pay now or risk the new partner finding out about his evasion.

What will happen at the court? Will we be ordered to go ahead with mediation after all? I am very worried about this and I am worried about his lying and what he intends to do next. His track record since splitting up has been very bad and I do not trust him. Anyone been through anything similar or anyone in a legal career who knows abou these things? I simply want what is best for my daughter and he has done nothing for her since she was born. I was ready to move forward with mediation but he seems to think he never has to talk to me again and can take my three year old without discussing anything directly with me ever again. Not to mention that I am not supposed to have anything to do with him because of the harassment warning. I am at a loss really.

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balia · 15/08/2014 14:42

I think I remember some of your previous threads and the situation was quite complicated? You had been somewhat enthusiastic about tracking him down but that you had quite a lot of 'conditions' that he had to meet before you'd allow contact? Huge apologies if this is not you...

Anyway, I'm really pleased that mediation got sorted out and I really hope it can work for you. It is not uncommon for people to apply to court at the same time as mediation, particularly in situations like yours when there has been a lot of conflict. It means that if mediation fails, there isn't a massively long wait to get the court process started.

The first court hearing will be a directions hearing and it is fairly likely that the judge/magistrates will order a new court date for after the mediation sessions.

However, please bear in mind that the focus will be on putting together a child-centred build-up of contact rather than him having to 'account for his behaviour'. You might find this frustrating. And if the mediation fails, then yes, the court can order that your DD has contact with her father without him having to discuss things with you, particularly if discussion leads to conflict.

Good Luck with it all.

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inthename · 17/08/2014 10:16

its likely as pp has said that the first hearing will set a date for after the mediation. The other possibility is that he has been to his individual appointment and decided that court may be quicker as mediation can roll on for months.
The hearing itself is more solicitors or barristers tooing and frooing between the two of you trying to find common ground between the two of you. rather than 'court' as most people imagine it.
He won't be asked to justify his past, it is all about finding the best way forward for your childs relationship with him, so it may be that initial contact is ordered for a few hours a week building up to over nights etc.
In court, you need to remain calm and not expect the judge to take him to task about the past, they deal with the present and the future.
Listen very carefully to the questions you are asked andtry to only answer the actual questions, don't be tempted to ramble or try to get a particular point of view acros and avoid anything that sounds like you are criticising him. Try to refer to the child as 'our dd' rather than 'my dd'
The Cafcass website has a checklist which courts use, it helps to see what they apply as pp said its all about what is in the childs best interests now.

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PenisesAreNotPink · 17/08/2014 10:22

As I said on your thread the other day, yes he can not talk to you again. You need to get what's best for your dd and that will be supervised contact, building up to contact where he has her on his own.

You can ask for this to happen in a contact centre. But yes, he doesn't have to talk to you and he clearly doesn't want to as he's got a harassment order against you - even though it's bloody clear you're not harassing him.

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inthename · 17/08/2014 10:23

and yes, they can order that he sees her without mediation and without any other contact between parents

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watchingtheenglish · 17/08/2014 10:26

They will adjourn for you to attend mediation, then come back to formalise whatever you have agreed into a court order.

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daisystone · 18/08/2014 17:31

Thanks for your replies.

No clear answer then. Some say they might make a decision themselves, others seem to think they will order mediation to take place as planned.

As he does not want to talk/be in same room as me if he can possibly help it, he will no doubt try to argue against mediation.

I feel as though I am on trial. It is strange to feel this way when I have been the only person looking after DD for the last three years. Why do the courts do it this way? Why do they assume that they must always try to back the absent father? Will I never get to set out ground rules? I only wanted to be sure that I could reach him by telephone if and when she was with him, I wanted to make sure that her safety was agreed upon in specific terms - checking he had the necessary things at his home to care for her etc (car seat being one, not smoking around her being another). As he never answers his phone, how could I even be sure I could reach her? I feel as though any say I have as her Mother is slipping away. I need to know she is safe and I will have no idea if I am not allowed to speak to him.

Maybe this sounds melodramatic, but the last three years have been as difficult as I could ever imagine. He has not just abandoned her but gone out of his way to make life difficult for us. He has behaved like a monster and now I have to hand her over to the monster he has mistreated her.

The law suits him very well and it completely disregards my concerns.

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NigellasPeeler · 18/08/2014 17:36

it is very hard to hand over your little ones to people who do not have the same safety concerns as you do....re car seat and smoking I am afraid there is little you can do.
I am sure mine were being driven around in an uninsured car with no car seats but eventuallly what can you do?
take care and stay strong

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inthename · 18/08/2014 18:47

its also possible that he has indicated to the mediation service that he doesn't wish to continue, strangely going to the initial appointment is enough to say to a court that mediation has been attempted, which is why I'm unsure whether in your case they would proceed to a full hearing or adjourn until after the mediation is going to take place.

Courts don't deal with 'what ifs' so there will be no interest in anything he might do (ie smoking around her) because he hasn't sctually put her at any risk yet.
That may sound harsh, but they don't deal in feelings, emotions, who said what to whom or who did what to whom, they will concentrate on establishing a relationship between the child and the non resident parent. The pendulum has swung towards fathers as historically it was the fathers losing contact with their children so in some ways decent resident parents end up paying for the manipulative few.

When you go to court it will be very important that you don't make 'conditions' on his contact, but try to find a middle ground. Judges don't know either of you, they are there to apply the law. Try not to view the judge as being for or against you. My ex husband took me to court 4 times. When it all started I felt completely got at and like no one was listening, I stayed calm, answered the questions politely and discovered that it wasn't all going his way (in fact because he showed just what a bully he was he lost far more than he realised at the time.)

Write down what you would consider a scenario which would work, write it as if you are thinking of arranging some time for your daughter with a person she is not familiar with, without condition etc (I wrote mine as if I was booking a childminder, or how you would expect tp interaxt with a school teacher, because in reality we know very little about people our children interact with daily) it helps to remove the emotion and puts your thoughts on a purely factual basis.

Court is very hard, I won't pretend it isn't, but it can help when both parties end up in what they call an entrenched position.

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daisystone · 18/08/2014 19:19

The problem is, how do you find middle ground with a person who won't even talk to you about your child? He refuses to engage in any discussion and has now refused mediation. I think he feels that any conditions set down are seen as me having power over him rather than me wanting what is best for my DD and wanting her to be secure, happy and safe. So how do you reach middle ground when you are not allowed to talk about her or discuss her day to day life or what scares her or worries her etc?

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inthename · 18/08/2014 19:37

As I said, you have to realise that if you can't think of

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inthename · 18/08/2014 19:38

sorry, phone misbehaving!
Basically think

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inthename · 18/08/2014 19:39

in purely practical terms. so, contact for x amount of hours supervised in x scenerio and b

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inthename · 18/08/2014 19:42

arghhh!
building up to x weekends etc.
He will need to make his own mistakes, find out about her himself, make his own routines. The court will say that this isn't something he needs to be told by you. If they have concerns about his abilities then they would request he attend parenting classes or similar

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mynewpassion · 20/08/2014 05:09

I think you can make sure that he has a car seat for her or you will not allow her to get in the car with her. Its the law regardless.

The smoking -- you can say its your preference but you can't do anything about this. Now, if he smokes cannibis, you can ask for drug tests. Its a danger issue.

I think in this case, its better that you and your ex don't meet and talk at the moment. Work with your lawyer to come up with reasonable things that he has to meet such as others have suggested, supervised contact in a contact center and slowly building up to one overnight to a weekend.

You don't want to be seen as an obstructionist. Contact is inevitable just be broad in your thinking and don't sweat the small stuff like eating at mcDonald's once in awhile or treats here and there. Worry about making sure she has a decent place to stay and sleep, helping her build a relationship with her father, no bad-mouthing of him.

He doesn't have to tell you what he's been doing while being child-free. He just has to show the courts that he will be a decent father/parent from now on.

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daisystone · 20/08/2014 13:22

I understand what everyone is saying. He has set out on his court papers and previously through a solicitor that I have prevented him from seeing her over the last 2 and a half years and that is why he has not seen her.

This is rubbish and he knows it, but how do I approach this? Clearly he is not attempting to be open and honest and start from a neutral place. He is going in all guns blazing and trying to place blame on me. I know he has not been prevented (the opposite if anything), numerous other people know that he does not answer his phone/respond to contact from them (I include the CSA in this) and he has a track record of avoidance, but nevertheless he is going to continue to say that him not seeing her had nothing to do with him. This makes my blood boil. It is bad enough not seeing her or asking about her, but to pretend that it was not his decision and he was not allowed to see her is so vile. The last few times he DID see her was in my house or when I took her to visit him at work. Then he stopped answering his phone and only called me when it was to shout at me about money.

I obviously need to address this but how? I really don't want his fiction to become fact in the eyes of the court.

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meglet · 20/08/2014 13:33

I really feel for you and hope that at the very least he has to go through a contact centre to start with.

The dc's dad has been gone for 5yrs with zero contact. A solicitor said he would have to attend a contact centre to see them. TBH the thought of him turning up is my worst nightmare.

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Pinkballoon · 20/08/2014 21:28

I think if it goes to CAFCASS, they will have seen many of his type before, and the behaviour. Could the sudden interest in your DC be the new partner putting pressure on him asking why he hasn't seen DC? If so, the sudden interest could equally suddenly wane.

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daisystone · 21/08/2014 09:56

PinkBalloon, that was my immediate though when this all happened. She knows that he has a child and she knows he is not seeing her. The other woman is a teacher. It looks odd doesn't it? The man you are living with has a young child who lives just down the road really and he doesn't see her? The only thing he can do is say he is prevented from seeing her. He speaks to me briefly and won't agree basic guidelines (me having his phone number so that I can always reach DD being one which he flat out refused at that point). So then, he has no other option but to go the legal route if he still wants to be viewed as a loving caring man.
He is a liar. That man has lied so many times I cannot keep count. It makes me very worried as my main wish has always been for him to genuinely love and care for his child and to WANT to see her and to know about her. I used to say to him (on the rare occasions he answered his phone) "don't you want to know how she is?" and he still did not ask. It used to make me weep.

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Pinkballoon · 21/08/2014 10:48

Yes, sounds like influence of the other woman. He's trying to look good in front of her. But I would suspect that she's not going to have an awful lot of time to be playing happy families (I do the same job! - enough on my plate looking after my own, let alone anyone else's, plus all the planning and marking!) But she was probably shocked by the discovery (if she didn't know already - did she?) and he had to put his act into gear to look good in front of her.

A solicitor once told me to document EVERY SINGLE contact with and from my ex on a spreadsheet. Could you set about doing that now? Go right back to the moment he left etc. So every time you tried to ring, text, email, contact him in person etc. - date and time it and what his response was. A distinct pattern of ignoring her will come up. I've been through all the CAFCASS thing. Yes, they probably will advise contact, but it will be very reduced initially (every other Sunday afternoon type thing.) I would stress to CAFCASS that he ignored every attempt you made to have contact with him about him seeing her etc. And then show the spreadsheet (also send them a copy.) I'd also ask CAFCASS for confirmation of who he lives with. It all sounds very safe that she is a teacher (with DBS/CRB etc,) but the title can be used very liberally nowadays - so say you want to be assured that your DC will be safe in her company etc. CAFCASS do initial checks on you and your ex (police checks etc.)

i really do think that this could be just a blip. He could, for example, finish with her and then lose interest in seeing DC. I think the fairy tales he's been telling on his court forms are for her benefit. Once all the paperwork starts flying back and forth, she'll probably start to see exactly what he's about! I've seen how i've been depicted on court forms and just been utterly shocked. You really do have to fight your corner and hard!

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