ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
SO ANGRY at family law court system (big rant)(67 Posts)
I won't go into all the ins and outs of my case as I would be here forever however, I was in court today for a directions appeals hearing regarding my ex's admission to 'sexually inappropriate behaviour' and how I am concerned about this in relation to the contact he has with our DD. In my opinion and I would have thought many others what he describes are sexual assaults. To my utter dismay in court today I was absolutely vilified by the judge who asked me what on earth was I bringing this issue to court for?? !!! I have tried and tried to get cafcass to take notice, I have tried in previous court hearing for magistrates to take notice but the furthest I have got is some ignorant old biddy telling me 'he was under the influence of drugs' as if that matters?! why are inexperienced magistrates making decisions about our children's future? the judge said 'I dread to think how much time and money this is wasting' - well you know what, if the system wasn't such a mess and people actually read the f*cking evidence then maybe it wouldn't take so long. I am drained mentally and physically and feel I cant go on but the mother instinct in me tells me I will not be quiet over this. does anyone know of organisations/campaigns for family law reform? I'm sick to death of this. taking legal aid away from vulnerable women, what planet are we actually living on??!! sorry if none of this makes any sense my head is spinning.
You can only appeal if you can demonstrate there has been an error in law - not because you disagree with the decision.
I can see from your post there is lots more than meets the eye and I feel like I'm going to end up asking you more questions than actually providing more help.
Was it SS who did a report (section 7?) or CAFCASS? You say SS advised that he should be seeing your DD but the courts can (and do!) ignore recommendations?
I get the feeling from your post that your DD was known to SS before your last case was opened.
cafcass did a report and put in info from social.services which said based on sexual behaviour info dad*should not* be seeing dd. cafcass basically ignored this in the report and gave no reason for so. we requested a risk assessment be done to c what risk he poses to dd, court said they'd done one, they hadn't. told me to appeal if I disagreed with this so I.did n it got thrown outof court.
lostdad thank you for jumping in with that good advice. As you put on the other thread - Op can now appeal to a higher court is that right? but she needs to find the point of law?
This is where I see the issue with the system law/welfare where is the line?
lostdad can she not say that as the risk assessment was not done she has grounds for apeal - is there a point of law there?
hi better - thank you for support. I was in.county court yesterday n basically got told I had no grounds for appeal. even.the barrister thought id get one but judge got on their high horse about what constitutes assault... turns my stomach.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
tom can you not now appeal to the high court? did your barrister suggest that at all?
if they refuse you would then be able to take it to the ECHR?
I have a friend going through similar with two girls the alleged abuse is connected with them both and the courts are looking to transfer residence to HIM or No Contact - they can't decide . She has been in the system two years - evidence wise they keep saying they can't decide if mum is making it up or dad did do it, lost paperwork, incorrect information given even the case mixed up with another one regarding an epert report which was submitted - you could not make it up - mum had suspicions but it was the nursery her youngest went to who raised the alarm with the authtorities, he was arested and then got off - based on that they say they can't refuse contact, mum said he cant have contact - hence the situation....
better-.I think the trouble is my appeal didn't even.get off the ground the judge wouldn't even hear it so if county court wouldn't hear it then higher courts wouldnt either. all to do with not enough evidence to actually investigate even tho dad does not deny it.
sorry to hear what your friend is going through, what a nightmare. blatant that they haven't got a clue what they are doing. 2 years is ages! I thought my case was unusual in being a year so far.
Have you read 'The Batterer as parent' by Lundy Bancroft? Its excellent and has helped me so much.
Mine's been going on 2.5 years. Its exhausting x
Did they simply refuse you leave to appeal (they always do that!), because you can apply directly to the relevant court for permission. If it was a district judge it will go to a circuit judge at a county court. If your case was heard by a circuit judge in a county court then it goes straight to the high court of appeal.
Your case sounds really strong. In my experience the lower court judges can be really rude and dismissive but there's certainly more respect the higher up you go. I've been treated with utter contempt by some of the lower court judges, but very kindly in the higher courts.
As far as your evidence is concerned, get that book as it will help you focus on what you need to make your case more sustainable. xx
Babbyhammock knows more than me but I thought even if they just dismiss it you can still go higher. I posted to lostdad if he knew the point of law relating to the fact that the risk assement had not been done, he knows a lot of stuff (and is always looking to learn more to help people) he may reply.
Does your lawyer not know about the next way to apeal? I think you can go higher and I agree your case sounds strong.
I am a year to date with my case the lawyers are creaming it....
thanks babyhammock. i'm not alone in how drawn out this whole thing is then! my solicitor says there are rules now that it has to be in and out of court within '26 weeks' even if it involves peoples kids going into care.
I am going to ring solicitor on Monday and discuss what my options are (she wasn't at the hearing). I haven't read that but I will look it up thank you. read his amazing 'why does he do that?' helped me so much!
It's another 16 weeks before my case goes back in - hope that is the case as it should then end next time - I very much doubt it.
Let us know what your sol says about going to the circuit judge/high court.
Its really designed for court personnel and those 'officials' involved with custody cases, but invaluable for anyone caught up in the process. Lundy totally gets the dynamics of abuse and just reading it was therapy for me especially, as you well know, when you're dismissed at every turn.
That 26 weeks is bollocks... they may aim for that, but it is also known than in cases of alleged abuse a quick turnaround is NOT in the best interests of the children involved.
Did your barrister ask the Cafcass officer who wrote the report why they didn't think it was necessary to consider the SS report? You should get a chance to cross examine them.
Also yes, in the lower courts I absolutely got the impression that no one was actually reading anything! xx
I think I will get that book.
babyhammock - the only thing is isn't lundy Bancroft American? does the book still apply with laws over here?
the judge mentioned yesterday that a cross examination might be possible if I still want to pursue it but in judges opinion it wouldn't get anywhere...
I will try get my solicitor to sort this for our next court hearing. I wrote a massive complaint to cafcass and spoke to the manager, got a long reply back which said basically we know you are not happy, we didn't mean to upset you, got any more problems with this then contact your MP!! :O
I had exactly the same concerns, but you'd be amazed how similar the two systems are and they both have exactly the same issues. And of course all the research and papers are relevant whichever side of the pond you're on.
Did you feel that cafcass actually dealt with your issue? Because if you didn't you need to go to the parliamentary ombudsman which is their governing body. To do that you need to write a quick explanatory note to your MP who will refer you. It sounds difficult (totally designed to put people off) but it really isn't.
Ah better seriously its brilliant! xx
New member- I'm amazed to find all these cases of miscarriages of justice by the Family Court. Our little grand-daughter at 4 years old said something unexpected during a bedtime. Our daughter questioned her the next day as gently as possible. We video-recorded the interview without the child knowing and were stunned at what she said. Things that she couldn't possibly know the significance of. So to police, police interviewed and got similar answers. Then to CPS who said evidence wouldn't pass a jury. Social Services supported our daughter. Her ex-partner applied to the Family Court for resumed contact. It took the FC 18 months to fix up a 'Fact-Finding'. Ex is well-off and had a top barrister. We are on pensions but lent our daughter money for lawyers while she applied for legal aid which has not given an answer after 6 months. The judge was charmed by Ex and thought our daughter too emotional. She dismissed the views of the experienced police and social work Child Protection Officers, and decided in her own inexpert view that the video evidence could be explained by Ex putting cream on the child's bottom, or else sex play with other children, when the child had described quite unambiguously that F had done certain things to her. The barrister charged £4,000 to review the judgement and tell us there was no 'legal' error in the judge's findings and therefore appeal would not be possible, though he 'sympathised' with my daughter's position. Now Ex is preparing for unsupervised contact sessions to resume including overnight stays. We were advised against getting an Expert Witness (child psychologist) by our lawyers but have consulted once since the case finished. He looked at the recordings and said in his opinion the child was disclosing genuine sexual abuse. But this is 'new evidence' and cannot be taken into consideration without going through everything again. We are almost bankrupt and cannot believe this is happening. I now realise through Mumsnet that others are suffering too.
My heart goes out to anyone who has genuine concerns and the courts /Cafcass don't listen...
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