Families need fathers all over the news today

[Sheila]

Bloody Louis de Bernieres also on R4 sounding off about his rights. It all seems so remote - I just wish XP was interested enough to demand contact with DS - usullay it's me naggaing him becuase he sees so little of his son. :(

[DefiniteMaybe]

It pisses me off when fathers go on about "their" rights. It's the child's right to have 2 decent, caring parents. Not seen any of the stuff today as I tend to switch stuff like this off.

[Thumbwitch]

Huh, they should change their name to Families need Decent Fathers who actually Care About their Children - although I appreciate that's not a particularly snappy title.

[NoWayNoHow]

I think it's incredibly positive. I have a few male friends whose relationships have broken down, and who are desperate to spend more time with their children, but the mothers are putting up barriers and blocking access and alientating their children from them.

My own cousin is a perfect example of how years of drip-feeding by his incredibly bitter mother (my aunt) has led to a non-existant relationsihp with his father, who has tried for the last 18 years to build bridges with his son.

It's very sad.

[AThingInYourLife]

Agree Thumbwitch

Right now it seems to be Families Need to Arrange Themselves to Accommodate the Whimsy of Men to Do As They Please.

So a man who walks out on his family and never sees them again - no problem, the mother will take up the slack.

A man wants to see his children, but not pay for them - no problem, the mother will go without to provide for them.

A man wants to see his children - the world must stop in an orgy of celebration at what an amazing father he is.

An abusive violent man wants to see his children - no problem, it's great for children to spend time with dangerous men.

[Sheila]

I am just not convinced that there are thousands of fathers out there being denied access to their children - where is the evidence of this, apart from a few headline-worthy cases?

[MrGin]

My XP thought alternate weekends and half the holidays was too much, was unfair to her. She suggested 5pm on a Sat to 4pm on a Sunday. I have dd from Sat 9am to Mon 2pm now.

Outrageous she said. When I stuck to my guns knowing a court would see my request as reasonable, she branded me a bully. I know quite a few decent dads who have problems seeing their kids due to bitter a XP /XW.

I know on here there are plenty of mums who have dickhead XP's who don't step up to the mark, it's only to be expected, but there are decent blokes out there who will feel better today.

[purpleroses]

To be fair, I think there are quite a lot - if you look on the Stepparents forum here you see a lot of issues of contact being denied, etc.

The trouble is that if your ex (like mine) would never in a million years take you to court to see the DCs and has to be hassled to have the contact he has, then it's a bit annoying to see all the high profile stuff around rights for fathers - as it suggests that that's the norm.

From the experience of people I know I'd say for every father in conflict over access there are at least three more that really don't bother, or leave 90%+ of the effort and financial support to the mother. But they don't hit the headlines, the mothers and the kids just have to put up with it :(

[stuffthenonsense]

I read it as CHILDREN have the right to see both parents....in which case surely if a child wants to see the NRP and the NRP cant be bothered, then the NRP will now be challenged in court....or am i just being over optimistic?

[purpleroses]

I think you're being over optimistic! Yes that is how it's being worded - but I think it just means the NRP can argue that the child's rights are being breached if contact is denied.

Be nice if that could be the case though :)

[Truckulentagain]

If there aren't 1000s of fathers being denied access then it won't make any difference will it?

I think what happens is that the two parents have different views on what is fair contact.

Personally I can't imagine seeing my children only every-other-weekend.

[AThingInYourLife]

Well it could make a difference if there are men being denied access because they are dangerous abusive assholes.

It could also make a difference if NRPs can be taken to court for not seeing their children enough.

The current system puts the welfare of children first, this gives them a right to see both parents, which will be interesting when you get into cases of unfit parents having their children removed (which apparently we want to happen more quickly).

Sometimes children have a right NOT to see a parent. I hope the legislation will deal appropriately with that.

[Sapphirefling]

Fathers need fathers but preferably ones who are also aware of their responsibilities.com

[corlan]

Sheila - I'm with you on this. I had a conversation with XP last night along the lines of me asking him to take DD every other weekend and half the holidays and him saying that he could only manage a few hours on Sundays but he was really hoping to be in a position to take her for longer very soon.

Our DD is 6 and we have been having this conversation for 4 years. He has not worked for the last 3 years and he lives 20 minutes away from us.

What I would like to know is - Where are my rights? ( I guess the answer is, I don't have any.)

[ranteetheranter]

My bil is many things, not all of them nice, but he is a decent dad who loves his children. He would be with them full time, care for them, provide the basic human needs, play with them and never neglect them or hurt them. His ex is using them as a weapon and is denying contact unless he comes back to her.

Some men are crap. But so are some women.

[MrGin]

Then they'd be called ' Mothers Need CM' StewieGM

Some mothers are obstructive and use their dc as pawns and deprive children of a decent relationship with one parent.

[AThingInYourLife]

Mothers need maintenance, Mr?

Kind of given yourself away, there, haven't you?

FAMILIES need fathers, but only MOTHERS need money, not children, not famies... just venal women "buying lipo wit yo money"

Either women as a gender are evil and vindictive and don't give a fuck about what is best for their children, or there is more going on in cases where men are finding it hard (allegedly) to see their children.

[duchesse]

I like your new name suggestion, Thumbwitch!

[Truckulentagain]

Families need fathers and fathers for justice are two completely different groups.

[duchesse]

"Mr"Gin- Child maintenance is not pin money paid to the mother. It is maintenance paid for the benefit of the children to the resident parent.

[MrGin]

AThingInYourLife

Don't really understand what you're saying. What exactly have I given away ??

Families do need fathers, just as fathers ( if they are NRPs ) need to step up to the mark and pay CM.

[duchesse]

Truckulent, I stand corrected. I apologise.

[MrGin]

duchesse err why are you putting 'Mr' in quotes ?

Did I say CM was pin money for mothers ?

[duchesse]

The thing is, I entirely agree with the principle behind Families need Fathers. Parenting is tough and few people would want to do it alone if they could have a second pair of capable hands to share the load.

The fathers that families need are good fathers who are able to behave like adults, accept that parenting children is a major undertaking that will impact on their life, be willing to sacrifice themselves emotionally to a certain extent, be willing to stick their neck out to pass on their decent values to their offspring, who do not feel that the children are somehow not their problem but their partner's in terms of day to day minutiae, who know their children's friends' names, their children's shoes sizes, their likes and dislikes, when their next dental appointment falls due, etc...

There is so much more to being a father than merely making a woman pregnant.

What I fail to see is how having spokesmen whining all over the media, interrupting other speakers and all but telling them they are stupid can in any way advance their cause. It just makes all the fathers involved in the organisation appear tarred with the same brush for electing such a poor spokesperson.