learning mandarin

[nappychanger]

Hi I would really like to learn some basic mandarin before moving to shanghai. I have bought Muzzy mandarin (BBC) for all of us., but I am still finding it difficult to grasp the words and phrases. Does anyone have any tips that would help, or other learning aids they have found helpful. thankyou!

[4pinkbabies]

Hi again!! Are you definitely going then? We are off on 12 August and will be in Pudong. Have been learning Mandarin in the car. I am a languages teacher, (French and German), and I am finding it very difficult. It's just repetition that helps. There will be no choice about learning in Shanghai. What will your DH be working as? Will you be working? Sorry..nosey of me. We are currently sorting visas. Be good to chat more.x

[4pinkbabies]

Hi again!! Are you definitely going then? We are off on 12 August and will be in Pudong. Have been learning Mandarin in the car. I am a languages teacher, (French and German), and I am finding it very difficult. It's just repetition that helps. There will be no choice about learning in Shanghai. What will your DH be working as? Will you be working? Sorry..nosey of me. We are currently sorting visas. Be good to chat more.x

[4pinkbabies]

sorry! Stupid laptop crashed and didn't know whether message had posted.

[nappychanger]

Hi we have in theory agreed going in October, but still have to firmly decide. Job package still not agreed so have to wait and see. I won't be working (actually haven't done since having kids)so no doubt will be pretty lonely at first from what I read at shanghai mamas....but still a fantastic experience so at present we are more for it than against it. Until then back to muzzy and repetition. x

[TheBride]

It's a difficult language but I think it's easier to learn when you're hearing it around you so if you get a few basics now, I'm sure you'll find you pick it up quite quickly once in Shanghai.I have found that Chinese people are generally polite and do try to understand you. It helps if you start by saying "excuse me" in Mandarin at the start of every sentence so that they are forewarned that the stupid gweilo is going to attempt to speak Chinese so they tune in (otherwise they think you're speaking english and they just cant understand you).

I'm trying Cantonese atm- without much success as live in HK where you can get by without but a little bit does make you feel more confident when out and about, even if it's just basic shopping and taxi vocab.

The thing I find hardest is having to learn it without being able to write it as I have a very visual memory.

Best of luck (with Mandarin and the move).

[nappychanger]

thankyou for the tip..better look that phrase up...I now have a few numbers of some mandarin speakers who are willing to help me. Good luck with Cantonese! xx

[tootsieroll]

Excuse me (sorry) = Dui(4) Bu(4) Qi(3)
Excuse me (sorry to bother you-if wanting a favour) = Ma(2) Fan(2) Ni(3)
Excuse me (may I ask...) = Qing(3) Wen(4)

the bracketed numbers symbolise the 'tone' required, probably doesn't make things easier!

[TheBride]

Another thing, if Mandarin is anything like Cantonese, is that you have to get over the literal meaning of things vs how you're taught to use them

eg. Kung Hei Fat Choy "means" Happy New Year (i.e. that's when you use it), but actually if you literally translate it to English it means "hope you make a fortune".

If you apologise to someone for (eg) knocking into them, what you actually say is "I cannot show my face to you."

It can therefore get confusing if you're being taught phrases and then trying to adapt those phrases for other sentences using your vocab. You could say something quite unintentional.

[slim22]

Hello ladies.

We live in Singapore and it is quite difficult learning a language out of context. Its all english here. It is possible to pick a few basic phrases but without immersion its bloody difficult.

I hope to learn more when we move to HK.
The Bride, does everybody only speak cantonese in HK? what are the chances of striking a (tiny) bit of conversation in mandarin on the streets?

[TheBride]

Hmm, HK language is a bit of a hotch potch.

The main language of HK is Cantonese and most HK Chinese people also speak some English (level varies enormously). Most educated (graduate level)HK Chinese speak Cantonese and English fluently and also at least some Mandarin, especially if they're in financial market jobs because there's more and more business with the main land. There are also a lot of people- mainly westerners- working in banking who can only speak English (my DH is one of them), although it's getting far less common and limited to higher level/specialist roles.

However, in banking, most official reports/ earnings announcements etc are primarily issued in English. Government stuff is issued in Cantonese and English. Shop signs would be written mainly just in English in Central HK but probably just in Cantonese in Kowloon/ east island etc.

You may well hear people speaking Mandarin on the streets but they would probably be mainlanders speaking to one another. You wouldnt hear (eg) a HK taxi driver speaking Mandarin.

Mandarin and Cantonese are the same language when written down (so a mandarin speaker and cantonese speaker could write each other notes and understand one another) but the pronounciation varies a lot when spoken making them effectively two different languages.

[oxocube]

My very linguistically talented friend (she speaks Spanish, Catalan, English, French, Italian and Dutch ) moved to Shanghi almost a year ago. Before she left she enrolled in a language course which she abandoned as she said mandarin was lucicrously difficult. Not much help, sorry

[oxocube]

ludicrously

[slim22]

Hello again,

sorry to hijack slightly but The Bride do you by any chance have school age children?
Need info on HK schools....am pulling my hair in despair atm!

[TheBride]

No- sorry but what's your question and I can ask at my mum's group tomorrow as there are a few there who are teachers in the English speaking system

[slim22]

Oh thanks!

trying to get a place in Y2 for DS. We arrive January 2011 for term 2.

So far all schools of course with loooooooong waitlists and even debentures are at this stage oversubscribed.

So basically is it customary to just put the name down of all waitlists anyway and play the waiting game?
My friends say it the same 50 people on all waiting lists so as they accept places in a school they release places on other waitlists. True?

How oversubscibed is Bradbury ESF? Is it realstic to try anyway?
And Kellet?

The only school with an opening is German Swiss. But shocking entry assessment for 6 year olds. Basically they said the only reason they can offer a place is because all 30 children who took the test failed. We are going to take the test anyway. Anybody knows how long? format etc?

Anyway, lots of questions. Any info, insider knowledge or just basic pointers would help at this stage.

Oh, last but not least, anyone heard of Hong Kong Academy? Very little info out there.

[TheBride]

Couldn't get an answer on the format of the German-Swiss exam - sorry- but agree there's no harm in going for it. It has a reputation for academic vigour. Now I know why.

Re the ESF schools, they are all oversubscribed but what you have been told is basically true and remember that HK has very high expat turnover - I know 2 families who now think they will be gone by the end of the year (just found out this week) so chances are that vacancies will come up and the wait list will go down. If you have flexibility over where you live that obviously helps.

It's easy for me to be relaxed as it's not me dealing with it, but it does seem that it's all very stressful but your child will get in somewhere.

What you need to make sure is that the schools know that your child cannot speak Cantonese and cannot access the local system as the ESF schools prioritise these children over HK Chinese families who just want their kids to be educated in English.

Sorry I can't be more help.

[slim22]

thank you very much!

[BecauseImWorthIt]

Hello!

I'm in my 3rd year of learning Mandarin. I have previously (at school/college) studied French (to A level), German and Latin (to O level) and Spanish (basic level).

Mandarin is not that difficult. As a language there are far fewer words - 3000 in regular usage compared with 60,000 in English. There are no tenses and the verb does not decline - in English we would say:

I am
he/she is
they are

but in Chinese the equivalent is

I am
he am
you am

What makes it difficult is two things:

1. the tones

You must get the tones right. The tones relate to the vowels, and for each vowel sound there are four different tones. If you get the tone wrong, you will be saying a different word. Thus the word 'ma' could mean mother or horse!

1. the characters

If you need to read/write the language then you will have to learn not only the vocabulary but also the characters for them. When you're learning Mandarin you will learn how to read/write the words in pinyin, a sort of romanization of the language, but in China you will have to be able to read the characters.

This is a very good introduction and it comes with a CD so you can make sure you're pronouncing the words properly

Why not see if you can find someone locally who will tutor you?

[Kiwinyc]

Agree that its being able to hear the difference in tones that is essential to learning chinese, either mandarin or cantonese.

Mandarin is considered 'easier' to learn because it 'only' has 4 different tones whereas cantonese has 7.

Get the tone wrong at your peril though, my mother is a native cantonese speaker and used to regularly break down in peals of laughter because i'd got it wrong and said a completely different word from what i'd intended - while learning cantonese as a second language from her when i was a child.

The thing is that Shanghai also has it own local dialect of chinese, which is Shanghai-ese. And its effectively another language again too, verbally it can't be understood by a mandarin or cantonese speaker. I met a girl who spoke shanghai-ese while living in NYC and I couldnt understand a word of what she said. So you may be better off learning that local dialect of chinese once you get there.

[TheBride]

Kiwinyc- this tonal thing and the potential for disaster is exactly what puts me off

Apparently "gau" can mean nine, help, or penis.

I never ask for nine of anything. I just get ten and throw one away.

[Kiwinyc]

LOL, that just cracked me up!

My mother never taught me any swear words and (despite me asking) and now that i think about it i never knew the word for penis either...

The rudest thing i know is the phrase for wanking - which literally translates as 'shooting at aeroplanes' or something like that?!

Either way, its much easier when you're there and hearing the sound of the tones every day. I do admire any westerner that manages to learn any tonal based language, i can do it because i was taught as a child but my ability to learn other languages is awful!

[nappychanger]

Just joined this thread after several months...have been on a several websites including shanghaimamas (great for help although I think most are living on pudong side). Anyway off for 2 years to shanghai after xmas...wish me luck with mandarin...and will no doubt be saying excuse me alot! :}x

[4pinkbabies]

Hi again Nappychanger! We moved out to Shanghai on 12 August and I have employed a personal tutor to teach me Mandarin. It's difficult, but the need to speak and understand is huge over here. We are feeling more settled now, after a very bumpy start, with daughter no.3 in hospital with pneumonia. Life is very, very different. Read up on culture shock and prepare yourself as much as possible. sometimes I love it here, sometimes I hate it. It is exciting and frustrating at the same time. Internet is slow and tv is crap. Shopping is great if you know where to go. Be prepared for your kids to travel without seatbelts unless you have your own car, which i really wouldn't recommend. Be prepared for the attention your kids are bound to get..it's all positive, but can get annoying. We are photographed and attract huge crowds wherever we go.(4 girls..they can't believe us!)The people have been so lovely to us, it's helped a lot. Come with a very open mind - you will need it in China! Good luck with all the preparations. That bit is a real faff. Let me know if I can help with any more info. i will give my honest opinions. Where will you be living? We are in Pudong.

[englishhusband]

Hi there
My wife is Chinese and is looking to teach Manadarin in London. We are in South London. My name is Douglas Wootton hers is Huije Hong though almost all Chinese women choose an English (actually American!) name Huije has chosen Emma. We would love to hear from you.
PS She also teaches Tai CHi