Australia or Canada?

[TheYearOfTheCat]

If you had the choice between them, which one would you move to and why? (or why not?)

[said]

Canada. Well, depends where you live now and who you'd miss I suppose. Have to say, Australia holds no appeal for me at all so I'm not being balanced. But Canada seems to have proper seasons. Plus, there are French speakers so feels more interesting? Near (very )to the US. Not so far from Europe if stay near to East coast.

[Rhubarb]

Personally I would choose to immigrate to Australia. Sorry, obvious link there!

[Spero]

Only been to Canada for a day, but lived in Australia for nearly a year. I didn't like Australia - it is way too hot for about three months of the year so everyone sits inside until the sun goes down with the air conditioning on.

I was in Perth which apparently is less interesting than Syndney, Melbourne et al so maybe my views aren't representative if you were thinking of the east coast, but it was quite grim. If you don't like getting up at 5am to get to the beach before its too hot, there is not much to do. TV, newspapers and radio awful, you feel very isolated.

I think a lot of the praise for the Australian lifestyle is very over done. As Giles Coren said, its mostly about being able to barbecue in your pants.

Perth felt very backward; v difficult to get child care so most mothers did not work at all or just had part time jobs. Fine if you are planning on being SAHM but not so good otherwise.

I think Canada and Australia would offer VERY different lifestyles so you really need to be clear about what makes you happy, what you need in your life.

[TheYearOfTheCat]

Hmmmm.

My thinking is this:
Australia - pros: gorgeous country, great work / life balance, great outdoors culture, friendly people - Cons: Too hot, mossies, very far away.

Canada - pros: gorgeous country, outdoorsy culture, closer to home (Ireland) - Cons - Would the winters be too cold to endure (although skiing would be great)

I don't know much about other quality of life aspects - schooling standards, economy, etc.

[said]

Yes, are you actually thinking about moving to either country? Australia always seems to be about the weather and "We can go to the beach every day" which would be a big "So what?" for me

[Spero]

Mmmmm. Not sure Australians are that friendly. New Zealanders seemed a lot nicer. The country isn't that gorgeous either, remember that most of it is just a big desert and you can drive for DAYS without the scenery changing one iota. Believe me, this gets old very fast.

And you bloody can't go to the beach every day! If it is 40 plus degrees (Boxing Day was 46 degrees) unless you have a UV tent and you plan to sit in it all day you can't go to the beach if you want to live.

[TheYearOfTheCat]

We are considering the possibility of a move - our thinking being better to do it now before we are too set in our ways and before it would interrupt DC schooling and friendships too much (they are 2 & 4).

I have spent about 4 months visiting Australia, and been to Canada only twice, for 2 x 3 week holidays.

[Spero]

I think it is vital that you consider what is important to you. One of my friends in Australia came from Sydney, lived in England for nine years where she met her husband and they moved to Perth for the sake of the children. She is pretty miserable. The children have a great life because all their needs are met but once you reach adulthood I think the Australian lifestyle can be pretty limiting for some.

Its a bit like Groundhog day I found - there are some fun things to do but after a week you've done them all and its round and round and round you go.

I do think Canada and Australia would be so different in what they could offer in almost every way that you'd have to be pretty clear about why you wanted to go.

[ClaudiaSchiffer]

Blimey Spero you really hated Australia didn't you?!

I think your comments, although they stem from your own experience, are pretty bigoted.

Australia is a very big country with some amazing cosmopolitan cities . . . and Perth (sorry only joking Perth people). Lots of people here love it.

OP if you are thinking of emigrating are you equally able to get into to either county - am thinking visa points requirements?

[Shells]

I think, if you read the OP properly Spero, thats she's asking for a comparison between Canada and Australia - not reasons why you don't like Australia.

And the OP has already stated she likes both places. So you don't really need to convince her on that front.

Sorry OP, I don't have much constructive to add as I don't know Canada, but felt the need to wade in!

[thighsmadeofcheddar]

Have you visited either country? Do you have friends or family in either place?

I'm Australian and have spent a couple of weeks in Vancouver. Both lovely, but very different.

Spero - I don't understand the groundhog day comment. Is that not the same wherever you live?

[differentnameforthis]

Also, while we do get them, 40+ days are rare! we had about 2 weeks worth of that, on & off this summer. About a week of, last year!

I love Australia. It isn't a matter of a country entertaining you, but finding your own entertainment.

There is SO much more to Australia than the beach! You have to look for it! I hate the beach, go v rarely, but go for the girls.

We have had dinner & gone to the beach to watch the sunset & it is beautiful! On a pleasant day it is warm, so can still dip in the sea.

The Australians I have met have been very friendly! I have made friends with a few girls who work in the supermarket I go to. I don't work, but I find there is SO much to do with my girls.

Oh & NO ONE I know BBQs in their pants, fgs!

[SueW]

I spent about 2 months travelling around Canada when I was 18 and then have cont'd to visit since. I have family there.

My DH is from NZ and we spent almost a yearliving in Australia (Melbourne).

Since we came back (it was a work contract) I have spent 10 years wanting to go back, until this year when I suddenly decided that if we did decide to emigrate, I'd rather go to Canada. I'm not quite sure why because I am not a fan of cold weather! But partly because when I am in Oz/NZ I feel the UK is so very, very far away (it feels further away than those countries do from here).

[differentnameforthis]

Actually, they DO bbq in their pants, because they are what we call trousers...

Honestly, there is only 1 thing I have issue with here, and that is that no one seems to dress up! We are god parents for a friends little girl, and at her baptism her father wore shorts & a t shirt!

I find it odd that you never really see 'dressed up' people. I am sure they are there, but it seems to casual. Except for workers, that is.

But that is not really a reason not to come here!

[differentnameforthis]

*too casual

[coralanne]

Depends where in Australia and where in Canada you are thinking about.

A friend moved back to Toronto after 12 years in Sydney

Didn't want to but had to as DH's elderly parents needed them.

She went from working part time in a Bank in Sydney to working full time in Scotia Bank and then going straight to a 4 hour shift in a department store 5 days a week.

All this just to maintain the same life style

[Spero]

Shells, the op asked for reasons why you would or wouldn't chose a country. I've given her my reasons.

I didn't hate Perth but I would never chose to live there for ever. I said ground hog day because there were very limited things you could do in terms of places to visit, culture, entertainment etc, etc.

I don't understand this comment about a country not entertaining you. Surely you figure out what kind of person you are - sporty, musical, likes the theatre, likes live music, likes travel etc, etc and you decide (if you are lucky enough to have that choice) where you could best flourish.

If you like variety (in terms of geography, culture, media etc), if you are not that keen on the beach and the heat and you are not that sporty, then I think there are other countries you would like better than Australia.

Just my opinion, after ten months of living in Perth and travelling round Australia.

[TheYearOfTheCat]

Thanks all.

Coralanne, that is very interesting about your friend - I am surprised the cost of living was much more in Canada. It's one of the reasons I wouldn't be interested in the States, as my impression is that there isn't a great work/life balance.

It's really hard to pin down exactly what makes a place good to live in - so much is down to culture, sense of community, having responsive, accountable politicians, both national and local, work ethic, friendliness to outsiders - I suppose it's really hard to explain and even harder to find out unless you live there.

We could probably get a visa to either country without much difficulty.

How do Canadians cope with the winter?
How do those in Australia cope with the 40+ days & the mossies?

[Spero]

40plus days are not very common, but they do happen. However, 35 plus days during the Australian summer (dec - March) are very common and quite difficult to deal with, especially if you have small children. They don't like being on the beach, it is too hot and the UV is very dangerous. Some nurserys and pre schools won't let the children out at all when UV levels reach certain limit.

From what I've seen, the only way to cope is to have a) very good air con and house designed to make most of shade, cooling etc. b)have your own swimming pool c) accept that for three months of the year you won't be going out much or you will be going from air conditioned car to air conditioned mall etc.

I guess after years in rainy gloomy England, whenever the sun shines I just want to fling open the windows and enjoy it which you can't do in Australia.

I never found mosquitos a problem. I don't know if that is a Perth thing. The flies are awful though. I always thought those hats with corks on were lazy cultural stereotype... ha! an essential, but then what do you do about all the flies on your back?

I was just thinking about what I've got up to with my daughter in England the last twelve months... we've been to Wales, Paris, theatres, museums, exhibitions... in Perth you can go to a)the beach b)scitech (children's science museum) or c) the zoo. Repeat ad nauseam until your ears bleed.

I'm exaggerating a bit for comic effect, but honestly, not that much.

[differentnameforthis]

"How do those in Australia cope with the 40+ days & the mossies? "

As I said, 40+ days are RARE! But here is what I do.

If it is a school day I drop dd off at school (all air con'd so it's cool for her). They stay inside for recess & lunch.

I get anything I have to get before going home & then I stay in house for as long as I can. The air con goes on as late as poss, but usually around 12pm, so it is cool for dh who gets home at 2. (He starts at 6 & leaves work at 1, as they have no air con)

Then dd2 stays at home while I collect dd1.

We usually have dinner & the go out into the backyard for them to play, as it is (albeit) slighty cooler & more pleasant. They usually have the pool out too.

Honestly, it is rare. You do cope & you do adapt. It is annoying, but to me, that it the price I pay to raise my children here.

The other annoying thing is, after 40+ you start to feel the cold when it is 25!

[differentnameforthis]

The mozzies....there is a few sprays you can use to keep them at bay, or you can burn citronella candles while you are in the garden. I get bitten by anything, but this year it hasn't been too bad with the candles.

Flies, the same...a spray if you want to use it. Most (all) houses I know have fly screens, so they don't tend to come into the house too much, as long as you don't leave the screen open.

Eating outside is a bugger tho & I do hate that.

[differentnameforthis]

The thing you have to remember, when reading spero's posts, is that yes, for 3 months (March usually tends to be cooler, with some warmer days, like today is going to be 20 here, with the week not getting higher than 30 on Sunday) it can be anything from 30 to 40+. But then you get 9 months of fairly decent weather, to go to the beach, parks etc.

Where as in the UK, it is the other way around! You have a considerable portion of the year where you are stuck inside due to inclement weather.

It's horses for courses really!

[berniew]

I can't give an opinion on Canada as I've never been, but I lived and worked in Australia for a couple of years and travelled all over. I think it would be a fantastic place to bring up children -obviously location depending, but isn't that the same in every country? They are really geared up for family life and there are always lots of things to do - quite often free or don't cost much- but obviously you have to be aware of them - entertainment doesn't come to you! As for the 40 degrees + weather- that also depends where you are, but having just experienced the worst winter in the U.K for many years the prospect of a couple of weeks of excessive heat and the rest of the year being perfect for outdoor life is very appealing to me. I'm currently looking into emmigrating over there once I've had my baby.

[SueW]

I can understand what Spero is saying. If you fly for 4 hours in Oz, chances are you are still in Oz, or over the sea. Fly for four hours from the UK and you could be in any one of more than a dozen very, very different places, having a very different experience.